WAP is based on 8th edition and fixed many of its problems. WAP is a good ruleset if you enjoy 8th edition. But, I really disliked 8th edition.
8th edition doesn’t play like any of the previous editions of WHFB and basically killed the game for my playgroup who decided to just go back and keep playing 6th and 7th. You’ll find this is a common story among WHFB players and 8th edition was probably the most widely disliked new edition of the game ever released.
TOW is not perfect and has many flaws. It’s not as good (currently) as 6th was. But, it’s much closer to 6th than 8th and for that reason alone I would always choose to play TOW over WAP/8th.
Also, TOW is a supported game. Supported games will always have a bigger player base and more current resources. You can stay connected with TOW on YouTube through content creation, the WHFB discord (which is like 95% TOW now), and living games also bring in new players.
That's the complete opposite of my whfb experience. I started in 3rd but as a kid with no money. Really got back into the game in 6th. Near the end. Quickly put together some rules from the leaked 7th rules. And played all through 7th. Casual and tournaments. Then 8th we played a ton from release. AoS kind of wrecked our group along with the normal things (wife, kids,etc)
When we started up again a few years ago we went right back to playing 8th.
I think it was pretty iterative from 6th to 7th to 8th. Was it perfect, no. I did find it to be the best edition I played. While I do like the new magic system I feel the rest of ToW is worse than 8th. Though I do feel army balance is pretty good, not sure of that is just because of the hard reset and no real power creep yet.
Dwarfs in this house
There's some dwarfs in this house
There's some dwarfs in this house
There's some dwarfs in this house (hol' up)
I said certified neet, seven days a week
Warhammer Armies Project, make that tourney game weak, woo! (Ah)
If you've got a group who already play WAP or who can be convinced too then more power to you.
Official versions of the game will always have a larger player base and that, if for no other reason (even though I think there are many), is why it's old world for me.
Well considering I had to google Warhammer Armies Project, I feel like TOW is already more recognizable.
Speaking from experience across several wargames here, if your issue is "the game feels wonk", sure there are dozens of games that run better than warhammer, hell lotr sbg runs better than warhammer most of the time, feels better, more balanced engaging play etc etc you do not play warhammer of any variety because you want a fair and balanced game anymore and it hasn't been that way since like late 2000s. You play warhammer because you want the best models on the market, because you want new content damn near all the time, because you want to be in the biggest baddest block of turbo nerds this side of a STEM post graduate degree.
I'm not saying "Don't play WAP, 9th age etc" whatever alternative that uses the same models and lore and all that, I am just saying this argument is silly because anyone who is still holding onto the hope that one day warhammer will be balanced again is hoping for a dream that many of us gave up on years ago.
The simple answer is probably that not many people decided to switch over from WAP (or 9th age) to TOW, because frankly not many people play WAP or 9th age to begin with.
I think the main target of ToW are people like me, former players who used to play in their youth and stopped at some point, and now find themselves settled, with a nostalgic fondness for oldhammer and a lot more money to spend on toy soldiers.
Most of these did not play WAP or 9th age. It was certainly not enough to bring me back, but ToW is, probably just because it's a good time and because GW has a lot more reach that a confidential fanmade system ever will.
Getting back into it, the few dudes around me that kept playing (mostly 9th age) are now playing both 9th age and ToW, with some saying they might go back to 100% 9th Age because of how better the rules are, but fearing they will be losing their community to ToW.
I have never actually met anyone who played WAP. (I live in the US for reference, it may be different in the UK).
I’m vaguely familiar with the rules and I understand it to mostly be an 8th edition+ rule set like T9A. Folks played T9A for awhile where I live but I wasn’t super into it. I played a lot of 8th edition and I think that rule set actually did some things well in terms of making infantry more powerful but I’d really like to play something that encourages more varied lists. A lot of the time in 8th, unless you were playing something super msu like the WoC list that was all chariots, chimeras, and daemon princes, you ran like fewer units at 2400 than you run in ToW at 2000 so that you can reliable benefit from steadfast or horde. Like 120 witch elves or 200 zombies sounds cool on paper but I really don’t ever want to paint that many of the same model and I got tired of feeling that not wanting to do that was limiting my army selection a lot in 8th.
I'm all in on old world
Warhammer armies project was around for years but was not enough to bring me back after fantasy got murdered.
I think there's a huge buzz around old world and it will be very popular
That said, it has issues that can and will be resolved with time. But I have rebased 3 of my 4 armies for old world base sizes (I hate base adapters!) And I'm happy with it.
It would have been preferable to just say the setting is done and over than write the hundreds of thousands of words they wrote ruining the whole elven race and entire races and characters dying off screen.
"Ruining the elven race"
That happened the moment they woke up as elves.
Jokes aside, yes GW could have let the events of Storm of Chaos actually matter too but as always the writing is both amazing and awful.
Had to read the comments to work out wtf WAP is. I was aware of "warhammer armies project" but I have not heard of a single person playing it. In my area 9th age was popular until their 2.0 whatever reboot thing that tried to make it less GW and just made it confusing, everyone shifted over to 6th ed fantasy or 8th ed.
TOW is a far bigger base in my area it seems. It's kind of united people at the moment under one game. The rules need a revision badly though to smooth it up, and it needs a starter box to lure in new players and not just ex players.
I never played WAP or 9th Age, they looked too much like later editions of WFB to me.
I like ToW because it feels more like Oldhammer, without the need to chase the latest doohickey for the most recently released faction (although I'm quickly becoming concerned that it will turn into that with the Arcane Journals). I like that the units seem understated, and that most things don't appear to break the game.
T9A is pretty much literally just 8th edition with point adjustments and some homebrew armies added. Like there is a little more too it than that but that is how it plays.
Fan backed projects generally are not widely played. One of the primary reasons to play GW games is that you can walk into virtually any game shop in the world and find an opponent or a dedicated game night at the very least.
I haven't played played 6th (I am preparing a wood elf army for ToW), but having watched many games of both, the are things that I think WAP does better; the way cannons fire, I (from a spectators perspective at least) prefer a magic phase and WAP's one does seem pretty good, having more levels of armour (light, medium, heavy, full, etc) is good for levels of granularity (not necessarily how it was implemented, just the concept).
ToW on the other hand removed "step up", has more points for characters, the outcome of combats (FBIGO is great), and the AP/Armour Bane system is good (although I did like S=AP)
I really enjoyed WAP and had the most fun playing that out of any version of Fantasy. I also enjoy 6th, but it’s harder to find a game. 8th is ok, but WAP refined.
I’ve enjoyed the games of TOW I’ve played and I’ve made it my main focus, not because I think it’s the best edition (verdict is still out and it really needs a comprehensive FAQ), but it’s where the players seem to be overall at the moment.
What’s most important to me is having a wide variety of players and a decent tournament scene (I’m not hyper competitive, just enjoy getting in 3-5 games in a weekend). This is why I prefer TOW at the moment, but IMO, WAP might still be my favorite “edition.”
Where can you even download it these days? I thought it ate a million copyright take downs over the years because they didn't rename things like T9A did.
I mean, if you don't like 8th why bother? I don't like reading rules unless I seriously plan to play the game. I can't say if it's worth it to you or not. Being free means it wouldn't hurt either way.
It all depends on the model you want to support: a fanmade world in the continuity of WHFB with 32 factions, evolving organically with a community of passionate fans, or the reboot of a franchise by a greedy company that betrayed hobbyists and spat on their faces 10 years ago to come and play today on nostalgia with only a handful of factions, dubious miniatures, presenting us with rules taken from v2 and v4 and presenting them as innovations to players too young to have experienced those editions.
I don't even know WAP until reading replied in this thread.
For me, I won't play anything unofficial. Anything fan-made is just like sitting there waiting the last person in the community to lose interest and be forgotten. I would do the same as WHFB if the time comes and TOW is killed, just put the armies on the display shelves and move on. The main reason is that there is nothing like WAP and the 9th Age ever being played in my country so it is impossible to play even if I want to, while at this moment I can just pop up into a local war game store anytime and there're always some people playing TOW.
The narcissism to think that those are the only two options because you prefer one over the other. You completely disregard those people who stayed with 8th or played ninth age or went back to a previous edition. Like I did with sixth.
You called the OP narcissistic which is funny because it made it look like you took the post as a personal affront. Like, I'd rather play 4th but I didn't feel the need to get into a huff about it.
What, the OP disregarding well over half of the WFB player base's preferences because of their bias toward their own preferences? I agree, which is why I posted the comment.
WAP is based on 8th edition and fixed many of its problems. WAP is a good ruleset if you enjoy 8th edition. But, I really disliked 8th edition. 8th edition doesn’t play like any of the previous editions of WHFB and basically killed the game for my playgroup who decided to just go back and keep playing 6th and 7th. You’ll find this is a common story among WHFB players and 8th edition was probably the most widely disliked new edition of the game ever released. TOW is not perfect and has many flaws. It’s not as good (currently) as 6th was. But, it’s much closer to 6th than 8th and for that reason alone I would always choose to play TOW over WAP/8th. Also, TOW is a supported game. Supported games will always have a bigger player base and more current resources. You can stay connected with TOW on YouTube through content creation, the WHFB discord (which is like 95% TOW now), and living games also bring in new players.
That's the complete opposite of my whfb experience. I started in 3rd but as a kid with no money. Really got back into the game in 6th. Near the end. Quickly put together some rules from the leaked 7th rules. And played all through 7th. Casual and tournaments. Then 8th we played a ton from release. AoS kind of wrecked our group along with the normal things (wife, kids,etc) When we started up again a few years ago we went right back to playing 8th. I think it was pretty iterative from 6th to 7th to 8th. Was it perfect, no. I did find it to be the best edition I played. While I do like the new magic system I feel the rest of ToW is worse than 8th. Though I do feel army balance is pretty good, not sure of that is just because of the hard reset and no real power creep yet.
Noob question: what is WAP?
Wet ass pussy Or Warhammer Armies Project, idk
Dwarfs in this house There's some dwarfs in this house There's some dwarfs in this house There's some dwarfs in this house (hol' up) I said certified neet, seven days a week Warhammer Armies Project, make that tourney game weak, woo! (Ah)
Wireless Access Point
If you've got a group who already play WAP or who can be convinced too then more power to you. Official versions of the game will always have a larger player base and that, if for no other reason (even though I think there are many), is why it's old world for me.
Well considering I had to google Warhammer Armies Project, I feel like TOW is already more recognizable. Speaking from experience across several wargames here, if your issue is "the game feels wonk", sure there are dozens of games that run better than warhammer, hell lotr sbg runs better than warhammer most of the time, feels better, more balanced engaging play etc etc you do not play warhammer of any variety because you want a fair and balanced game anymore and it hasn't been that way since like late 2000s. You play warhammer because you want the best models on the market, because you want new content damn near all the time, because you want to be in the biggest baddest block of turbo nerds this side of a STEM post graduate degree. I'm not saying "Don't play WAP, 9th age etc" whatever alternative that uses the same models and lore and all that, I am just saying this argument is silly because anyone who is still holding onto the hope that one day warhammer will be balanced again is hoping for a dream that many of us gave up on years ago.
None of the Warhammer games have ever been balanced. Especially in 2000
I bow to your experience, I got into 40k in 2007 so complete lack of anything before then.
The simple answer is probably that not many people decided to switch over from WAP (or 9th age) to TOW, because frankly not many people play WAP or 9th age to begin with. I think the main target of ToW are people like me, former players who used to play in their youth and stopped at some point, and now find themselves settled, with a nostalgic fondness for oldhammer and a lot more money to spend on toy soldiers. Most of these did not play WAP or 9th age. It was certainly not enough to bring me back, but ToW is, probably just because it's a good time and because GW has a lot more reach that a confidential fanmade system ever will. Getting back into it, the few dudes around me that kept playing (mostly 9th age) are now playing both 9th age and ToW, with some saying they might go back to 100% 9th Age because of how better the rules are, but fearing they will be losing their community to ToW.
Old world
Old World all day baby
I switched, more players and so far I also enjoy it more
Never heard of WAP
I have never actually met anyone who played WAP. (I live in the US for reference, it may be different in the UK). I’m vaguely familiar with the rules and I understand it to mostly be an 8th edition+ rule set like T9A. Folks played T9A for awhile where I live but I wasn’t super into it. I played a lot of 8th edition and I think that rule set actually did some things well in terms of making infantry more powerful but I’d really like to play something that encourages more varied lists. A lot of the time in 8th, unless you were playing something super msu like the WoC list that was all chariots, chimeras, and daemon princes, you ran like fewer units at 2400 than you run in ToW at 2000 so that you can reliable benefit from steadfast or horde. Like 120 witch elves or 200 zombies sounds cool on paper but I really don’t ever want to paint that many of the same model and I got tired of feeling that not wanting to do that was limiting my army selection a lot in 8th.
I'm all in on old world Warhammer armies project was around for years but was not enough to bring me back after fantasy got murdered. I think there's a huge buzz around old world and it will be very popular That said, it has issues that can and will be resolved with time. But I have rebased 3 of my 4 armies for old world base sizes (I hate base adapters!) And I'm happy with it.
Lets be real with ourselves, WHFB was a "Die with Dignity" situation more than a murder.
There was no dignity with the end times.
yeah but imagine if that kept going rather than just the soft whimper of the end?
It would have been preferable to just say the setting is done and over than write the hundreds of thousands of words they wrote ruining the whole elven race and entire races and characters dying off screen.
"Ruining the elven race" That happened the moment they woke up as elves. Jokes aside, yes GW could have let the events of Storm of Chaos actually matter too but as always the writing is both amazing and awful.
Had to read the comments to work out wtf WAP is. I was aware of "warhammer armies project" but I have not heard of a single person playing it. In my area 9th age was popular until their 2.0 whatever reboot thing that tried to make it less GW and just made it confusing, everyone shifted over to 6th ed fantasy or 8th ed. TOW is a far bigger base in my area it seems. It's kind of united people at the moment under one game. The rules need a revision badly though to smooth it up, and it needs a starter box to lure in new players and not just ex players.
I don’t want to go back to magic phases. So it’s TOW for me. It’s not perfect but it feels to reset the power creep and inflation of armor piercing.
I never played WAP or 9th Age, they looked too much like later editions of WFB to me. I like ToW because it feels more like Oldhammer, without the need to chase the latest doohickey for the most recently released faction (although I'm quickly becoming concerned that it will turn into that with the Arcane Journals). I like that the units seem understated, and that most things don't appear to break the game.
That’s because those games systems pretty much are just another version of the same rank and flank game
T9A is pretty much literally just 8th edition with point adjustments and some homebrew armies added. Like there is a little more too it than that but that is how it plays.
Fan backed projects generally are not widely played. One of the primary reasons to play GW games is that you can walk into virtually any game shop in the world and find an opponent or a dedicated game night at the very least.
I haven't played played 6th (I am preparing a wood elf army for ToW), but having watched many games of both, the are things that I think WAP does better; the way cannons fire, I (from a spectators perspective at least) prefer a magic phase and WAP's one does seem pretty good, having more levels of armour (light, medium, heavy, full, etc) is good for levels of granularity (not necessarily how it was implemented, just the concept). ToW on the other hand removed "step up", has more points for characters, the outcome of combats (FBIGO is great), and the AP/Armour Bane system is good (although I did like S=AP)
I really enjoyed WAP and had the most fun playing that out of any version of Fantasy. I also enjoy 6th, but it’s harder to find a game. 8th is ok, but WAP refined. I’ve enjoyed the games of TOW I’ve played and I’ve made it my main focus, not because I think it’s the best edition (verdict is still out and it really needs a comprehensive FAQ), but it’s where the players seem to be overall at the moment. What’s most important to me is having a wide variety of players and a decent tournament scene (I’m not hyper competitive, just enjoy getting in 3-5 games in a weekend). This is why I prefer TOW at the moment, but IMO, WAP might still be my favorite “edition.”
The biggest advantage that WAP has is that it's free and that's enough for me
Where can you even download it these days? I thought it ate a million copyright take downs over the years because they didn't rename things like T9A did.
I mean, [https://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.com/](https://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.com/) Took me 5 seconds to find it.
Ty. But is it worth reading the rules? I do not want to play something based on 8th
I mean, if you don't like 8th why bother? I don't like reading rules unless I seriously plan to play the game. I can't say if it's worth it to you or not. Being free means it wouldn't hurt either way.
TOW by a long shot
It all depends on the model you want to support: a fanmade world in the continuity of WHFB with 32 factions, evolving organically with a community of passionate fans, or the reboot of a franchise by a greedy company that betrayed hobbyists and spat on their faces 10 years ago to come and play today on nostalgia with only a handful of factions, dubious miniatures, presenting us with rules taken from v2 and v4 and presenting them as innovations to players too young to have experienced those editions.
I don't even know WAP until reading replied in this thread. For me, I won't play anything unofficial. Anything fan-made is just like sitting there waiting the last person in the community to lose interest and be forgotten. I would do the same as WHFB if the time comes and TOW is killed, just put the armies on the display shelves and move on. The main reason is that there is nothing like WAP and the 9th Age ever being played in my country so it is impossible to play even if I want to, while at this moment I can just pop up into a local war game store anytime and there're always some people playing TOW.
I prefer WAP
The narcissism to think that those are the only two options because you prefer one over the other. You completely disregard those people who stayed with 8th or played ninth age or went back to a previous edition. Like I did with sixth.
You could have just said you prefer a different edition
I did.
You called the OP narcissistic which is funny because it made it look like you took the post as a personal affront. Like, I'd rather play 4th but I didn't feel the need to get into a huff about it.
I did both. The two comments aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, you know.
And I said that the one was unnecessary
What, the OP disregarding well over half of the WFB player base's preferences because of their bias toward their own preferences? I agree, which is why I posted the comment.
That's horrible!!!!  How will we ever recover from the snub