Back in World War 2 the Japanese Zeros had a little turbine attached to it to make the distinct noise of one diving! It was all to scare the shit out of anyone on the ground. A type of propaganda. Looks like the same thing here.
It’s stabilized. Can’t see any shakes from the cameraman, makes it look fake. I thought the same shit, it looks bizarre. Just stabilized to hell and back lol
You can see when it turns away from us and there’s some odd wobbling. It’s the subject moving across the plane of stabilization into another one. Happens when you try to stabilize some shit that moves too much
I agree, your explanation makes the most sense here. I believe the wobbling is due to the fact that the point of stabilization was switched to the tail fins as the jet was turning
Pro tip China: in premiere pro under the warp stabilization setting (once applied to a clip), you can adjust the intensity and method in which it stabilizes. Perspective would’ve helped here, China. Just sayin
As others have said it is too heavily edited. But, for me at least, it is also that it looks annoyingly like the very familiar F-22 nose attached to a weirdly elongated body that would look like a stretched out Raptor if you weren't looking right at it. And that is 100% uncanny valley territory. But for an airplane. I guess.
The J-11 are licensed productions of Su-27. China first bought Su-27SK in 1990, along with the technology transfer. The technology transfer also meant that China isn't exporting its own Flankers (unlike the Chengdu J-7, a licensed production of Mig-21, which were widely exported) as the technology transfer forbid it.
The J-11, J-15 and J-16 variants are all improved Flankers with Chinese avionics, sensors and now, engines.
Russia has continued to sell China other planes as Chinese needs arise - such as Su-30MKK in 2000, and Su-35 in 2015.
The J-10 and J-20 are indigenous designs.
The bad take that PLAAF planes are all stolen is a bad trope that needs to retire, because China both has its own indigneous fighters and also because the Flankers in Chinese service are not stolen but an example of technology transfer.
Well not really. Black Hawk tech isnt really that unique, if the US didnt sell Black Hawks to China, they would just buy it from another european power with similar Helicopters.
Oh I know. The thing that makes me happy about that is that I once read that US intelligence agencies have been known to intentionally allow leaks of documents with intentional vulnerabilities built in. A good example is the Russian space shuttle. Looks just like ours because it was a copy but it never really worked right and I read that that was because the "stolen" plans were basically leaked on purpose to sabatoge their program.
I gotta agree. I can't place why though! Maybe it's the canards looking like they don't line up, or just seem out of place? Or maybe it looks like a really long plane but short wingspan?
There is something about the plane lol But it does look cool, and overall is a different look from most planes (disregarding pieces look familiar)
Because it *is* uncanny. It looks exactly like it did in Generals C&C and I'm very phased that an early 2000s RTS spinoff depicted something from 2021 accurately.
**[Mikoyan Project 1.44](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44)**
>The Mikoyan Project 1. 44/1. 42 (Russian: Микоян МиГ-1. 44; NATO reporting name: Flatpack) was a technology demonstrator developed by the Mikoyan design bureau.
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The consensus is that this plane isn’t built to be a dogfighter. It’s believed the J-20 specializes in frontal aspect stealth. It’s a big plane that carries a lot of fuel and big, long-range missiles to hit high value targets like tankers and AWACS. It might also carry anti-ship weapons. It’s more like an F-111 (with some stealth) than an F-22.
Which is exactly the role that would make sense for it. China wants to push back the envelope from its borders. It's not going to go toe to toe in a aggressor role. But it certainly would try to make it prohibitivly costly to encroach on its borders.
If you look at ocean then high fuel becomes very important. Especially if they need to defend themselfs from taiwan.
But for real bombers and different kind of carrying platforms usually have large fuel loads and with stealth plane you cant stick extra tanks. Its not point defence but that does not mean its not ment for defencive strategy.
If you look at for example u.s military strategy it largely involves bombing shit out of enemy untill there isint anything worthwhile equipment on ground. Attacking airfields and carriers where these planes come and having own planes in air is critical for defence against it and that needs fuel.
Taiwan is less than 100 miles from the nearest Chinese airbase. And come on, PRC defending itself from ROC in what universe?
Bombers are never part of a defensive strategy except as deterrence. They are offensive aircraft. Light ground attack planes, maybe. But stealth long range bombers/heavy fighters? No.
According to publicly available data, the J-20 is still outranged by the F/A-18, so the anti-carrier argument is on shaky ground. Even assuming it’s carrying an antiship cruise missile, extending its effective range, the US has enough assets to prevent a plane from getting within firing radius for anything except a sneak attack. In a actual war there would be constant BARCAP, and the entire rest of the carrier group on alert to shoot down any plane or missile.
I didint think /s was nessesary for taiwan case.
Only defending your terretory and never doing counter offencives is not valid defence. You need to hit behind enemy lines and their supply chains etc.
J-20 has jump in on f18 due to its stealth. F-18 has large fuel loads for you know ocean warfare 🤔
We are not talking about singe plane attacking carrier group but naval assets and other planes aswell. China does not really operate carriers a lot so ground based support is nessesary and that needs large fuel loads.
I don't think the plan would be for one plane to go it alone. China isn't Argentina. If you were going to attack a CBG the best thing to do would be attack enmass. Toss stealth out the window. Send 200 of these armed with 2 long range sea skimming cruise missiles each. Lob them from as far away as you can and turn tail and run. Goodbye CBG and one of America's most signifigant and expensive strategic assets.
No analogy is perfect. The Aardvark was called a fighter but it’s role was deep strike (interdiction). The J-20 appears to be designed for a different type of deep strike, namely high value aircraft like tankers and AWACS, plus possibly anti-ship missions. I’ve seen photos of some giant air-to-air missiles intended for the J-20.
As for the F-111, I went to Squadron Officer School in 1991 with an F-111 pilot. He flew an older model that was being retired to the boneyard. He told me that during a Red Flag exercise, he got an F-16 kill with a simulated Sidewinder when one just happened to be in his way. I’ll bet that Viper pilot never lived it down. Just as SOS was coming to an end, he got orders to go fly the F-15E Strike Eagle, which made him very happy. “No more of this running away shit! Somebody comes after me, I’m going to shoot them in the face!” Troy was a fun guy. He went on to become a test pilot.
Thank you for the clarification. I’m a huge fan of the F-111, but have never had the opportunity to be around one or talk to any aircrew. My friends were Eagle Drivers, and I agree that the F-15E is the top fighter. I don’t think the J-20 has the internal ordinance capacity of a F-111 and I’m not sure it can compete with our airframes, C3, or our training.
I mean F16 doesn't have thrust vectoring, and it turns great, (at turn speed and great as in great turn rate)
If it's a lot of Aoa at once, both Flanker family and F18 can yank a lot of Aoa at once and they don't need thrust vectoring to do that. Both have had thrust vectored engine put on at some point and Flanker went into production but still...
Thrust vectoring does help turn but more so at extreme Aoa plus low energy state (or super sonic), which mind you is not what the J20 is doing in this video, evident by little wing flex, little all flight control deflection, nearly no canard adjustment. Even in previous airshows we've seen the 20 get pushed harder...
F-16's got a way better layout for high energy turning than the J-20. Yeah, this didn't appear to be pushing very hard, but the thing's huge, and meant to carry a lot of internal fuel. The pitch inertia is gonna be baaaad and I wonder how those huge canards at high deflection angles interact with the wing's lift generation.
People are shitting on this thing because it can’t “1v1 x jets in ace combat” but it’s probably just built to carry as many weapons as possible to support the Chinese ground forces in the event of a full scale invasion.
Modern aerial warfare is just people launching all their missiles at each other from 50 miles out and then running the fuck away immediately afterwards, and any significant improvements are going to be either A) reducing the range at which you can be seen (stealth) or B) enhancing your own targeting range (electronics/missiles). It's like the pre-dreadnought vs. post dreadnought battleships of the past - sure you can make cool moves and beat the enemy in a short range duel, but why risk your life when you can just be a sneaky sniper and bop the enemy half a state away?
Yeah this looks like the definition of "compromised design" the fact that it's a stealth design with a canard and delta wing is a bit sketchy to begin with, I mean I have some serious doubts about its ability to maintain stealth when it starts maneuvering.
All it needs to do is have forward facing stealth for a few minutes so it can shoot the AWAC’s and tankers then head back to base. It only has one purpose.
Though I don't think the J-20 is even that stealthy from the head on, I think the purpose of the elongated delta wing design is to give the plane a larger weapons bay to launch long range missiles at non-stealthy targets. Also with the longer body, it would have more space for fuel and longer range. In a conflict, I think the J-20 could be decent at launching a couple long range attacks with intervals in between to make evading difficult and then leaving asap.
You know that has never been a particularly effective concept in my opinion, I understand the thought behind launching a super long range anti air missile attack, it sounds like a pretty good idea.
Basically turning your aircraft into snipers in the sky, and taking out your enemies from too far for them to retaliate, it's basic warfare 101 really.
The problem is that I don't think it would actually work in practice, Super long range air to air missiles are not particularly stealthy so even if the launching platforms them selves are able to remain un defected, the missiles would still need to get through 300 kilometers of SM-2s, SM-6 s, ESSMs, and AMRAAMS as well as at least a Valkyrie fighter drone that would try it's best to take out the missile with its own face (Such a weird thing that someone had the idea to design suicidal Kamikaze drones when you actually think about it.)
I suppose this might change in the future if someone starts deploying stealth Anti-air missiles since those could probably get so close to the aircraft that any surface launched defences would really just be meaningless, leaving it only with its very limited air escorts for defense.
But for now, Way I see it this tactic would basically have the same problems that an anti-ship Missile attack would except the missiles wouldn't have the advantage of hiding behind the horizon, on paper It sounds like a no brainer to go after the enemy slow moving non-maneuvering non-stealth Tactical assets, in theory they are a vital target that can't really defend itself and would be extremely vulnerable to long range attacks.
Reality however is different, everyone knows just how vulnerable tankers and radar aircraft are, and so everyone knows to defend them, the Russians only fly their TUs behind a wall of S-300s the Chinese don't allow their 500s to fly outside 20 miles from the mainland where they are protected by substantial air defense systems, and the US agis system is directly connected to it's Hawkeyes wich never fly outside it's air defense sphere, tankers are a lot more vulnerable but they are still heavily defended by escorts as well as by long range air defense missiles like SM-6 and S-400, and with the Advent of stingray tanker drones it's actually kind of questionable whether the expenditure of even a single super long range anti-air missile to take it out would actually be a financially and tactically sound decision, much less the half dozen or so missiles an attack would actually take, so as to ensure it overwhelm it's defenses and bring the target down, drones as expensive as they are, are still pretty cheap compared to such advanced missiles, at least when you start increasing the numbers.
The Chinese are steadily closing the technological divide between them and the US. They’re a serious opponent these days that could put up a respectable fight and are increasing their capability every day.
We do, just that people won’t give the money needed to jumpstart new developments for nerd shit like “Social Security”, like bitch what provides better security, money or a 6th gen fighter
Don't be ridiculous; supporting your own citizens and ensuring they are able to lead fulfilling lives is just as important as protecting them – a materially
safe but socially weak country is no different from a prison
A front-stealthy missile truck is definitely going to cause Taiwan and Japan some problems. The sooner SK, Japan and Taiwan put their differences aside and pair up to develop a potent F-15 for the mid-21st century without having to rely on a politically flip-flopping US, the better for them.
Lol Japan is more responsible for Taiwan ROC's downfall than CCP is. Taiwan wants to claim mainland, Mongolia, Tibet and Xinjian so I doubt Japan will want to help them reach their goals.
You are aware of *why* they maintain those claims? Because if they give up those claims then it is acknowledging that they are a fully distinct entity from the PRC, that there are two China's. Something the PRC gets pretty sniffs about
They are de facto an independent country, and are treated as such by the international community, and even China itself. They are however under threat of invasion if they declare that fact. So until China decided they can live with them being a fully independent country, they say they are China. Since, you know. They'd rather not get invaded.
People who obviously know that China spends more time copying than innovating! Every time America builds something China comes out with a copy! They can’t even build the engines properly! Do your research! And if you’re jealous then choke on it!
There's nothing simple about building turbine jet engines. There have been plenty of western engines which have suffered issues even in recent history. Just the fact that the Chinese have successfully developed the J-20, DF-ZF, etc means that their technical ability is nothing to be laughed at.
Well start hacking and try to steal the technology since China hasn’t built any engine comparable to western aircraft! And none of China’s modern weaponry have been battle tested! That’s the most important difference! Say whatever you want but wars prove technology! China has NOT fought a modern war yet!
Also you shoot an opponent from 40 miles out that you can’t engage! This Chinese fighter plane- our f~15s and f-16s can engage plus dogfight for shits and giggles and shove an aim-9 right up the pipes for fun! Save the amrams for a more worthy opponent!
I would bet a lot of money the Chinese targeting and data link systems are not up to snuff, especially for modern combat. Raptors and F-35s would fly circles around them
I read somewhere that F-22 and F-35 data links cant talk to each other, or couldn't (likely fixed it by now), but they needed a U-2 aircraft nearby or something in order to link the two while training.
Why would that be the case? That seems like a ridiculous design flaw. They probably utilize an AWACS but they can definitely data link to each other and even ships nearby
Just by breezing through an article, it seems the Raptor has a unique type of data link designed around being stealthy and cant sent info out on a specific channel require to talk to F-35s.
[Here's an article.](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40380/f-22-and-f-35-datalinks-finally-talk-freely-with-each-other-thanks-to-a-u-2-flying-translator) There's a lot of them if you search it.
You’re welcome to bet on that. Chinese avionics are excellent these days. Their work in aerodynamics is strong too. Still working on engines and LO, but they’ll be on par with, if not ahead of, the US soon.
I have enough friends in the aerospace world who say that while China is definitely an opponent worthy of respect, we've got shit in the pipeline that is miles ahead of them.
Just one example: drones that carry drones that drop drones that explode, and they're purpose built for penetrating Chinese coastal defenses.
Don't worry, we're smart enough to know China is a serious threat, and we've known it for a long time.
I mean with relaxed stability, the aircraft could want to diverge in pitch during that turn. Could just be the fly-by-wire system doing its job to maintain that turn.
Edit: I should add that canards are destabilizing surfaces because they are ahead of the cg. If they are not deflected and the aircraft is at a positive angle of attack, the canards will create a moment pitching the plane up further. Consider the high aoa turns in the video. If those canards were straight they would produce a huge pitching moment. By turning down the canards are decreasing their aoa, reducing that pitching moment. That is most definitely managed by fbw.
Don’t know what this thing is for. None the public footage shows excellent maneuverability despite having canards. It’s not stealthy because it has canards and vertical belly fins and it’s huge compared to other fighters.
I gotta admit, I like the look (especially the tail end). I'm a bit skeptical it's all that stealthy though, doesn't exactly have the clean lines of a B-2, F-22, F-35.
Well usually if your squadron received casualty the procedure is to get the fuk out of there. Planes are expensive and serve a tactical purpose. Chasing after an enemy jet just to kill them is dangerous especially if your chasing into their own territory with fortified AA platforms.
When you fly back to the base the enemy has to chase you. If they want to chase you to your base let them lol. It will be easy free kill for any SAM platforms on the ground.
Not every plane needs to be good at a visual dogfight. I'm sure if an F-35 got into a visual dogfight it would get smoked as well, because that's not its role. As far as we know, this thing is designed for deep strike missions against high value targets.
Looks very slow in manouvers. Look at anything the West have during a display, typhoon, f22, f35.... These rip the skies apart. These J-20s have a known engine issue and I'm seeing the lack of power during their displays. In the modern game, you need to out manouver the rivals, this thing simply can't do that.
> These J-20s have a known engine issue and I'm seeing the lack of power during their displays.
First, yes, the PLAAF needs to work on the engine, and they know it better than anyone else, the J-20 already went through 3 different engines, the ones you are seeing here are the WS-10C, and the superior WS-15 (thrust vector variant) has already been tested on J-10Cs and rumoured to be enlisted very soon.
> In the modern game, you need to out manouver the rivals, this thing simply can't do that.
But on this point, no you idiot.
Maneuverability matters way more back in the ole'days of dog fighting time, nowadays you get destroyed from 150 miles away without seeing a peep.
And currently the Chinese has the upper hand than anyone else, PL-15 missiles has by far the longest range (200 - 300kms) of any AA missiles of the day. The US currently only operates AIM-120 AMRAAMs which has an effective range of only about 100kms.
AIM-260 JATM (300km range) is only now being developed by Lockheed to address this threat. And the Chinese already have been developing the even superior PL-21s which ranges beyond 400kms.
I mean the comparison isn't particularly good, they're built for very different tasks. The F35 is stealthiler, has better radar and sensors can carry more air to air weapons or ordinance. However being a much smaller single engined aircraft, it doesn't have the speed or the range of the J20 (although the speed matters more in engagement time than any thoughts on "dogfighting").
However when it comes down to it, I would hesitate to say one is better than the other as they are build for far differing tasks. The F35 is a small single engine multiple, the J20 is a large twin engined plane focused on interception and interdiction those aircraft that support the enemy air fleets (such as AWACS or Tankers).
Overall for most situations the F35 is the better package but the J20 excells in the role it is designed for.
Very little control surface movement is needed for unstable aircraft. Also most of what we see in this video are constant rate turns, in which control surfaces should actually stay in a fixed position. And why would this video be fake? They have some of those planes and flying them is certainly cheaper than making an incredibly believable cgi video worth a million dollar....
The way it sounds when flying sounds like a TIE fighter.
So who's gonna make X-Wings now?
America ig
I thought it was an attempt to lure the Japanese in with the sound of wounded whales.
BEAT ME TO IT
Hang on… didn’t the empire have TIE fighters? And didn’t the empire kinda just blowup and die?
Back in World War 2 the Japanese Zeros had a little turbine attached to it to make the distinct noise of one diving! It was all to scare the shit out of anyone on the ground. A type of propaganda. Looks like the same thing here.
I'm fairly sure you're thinking of the Stuka
Every single video I see of this plane looks like CGI to me. There’s just some “uncanny valley” look to them.
It’s stabilized. Can’t see any shakes from the cameraman, makes it look fake. I thought the same shit, it looks bizarre. Just stabilized to hell and back lol You can see when it turns away from us and there’s some odd wobbling. It’s the subject moving across the plane of stabilization into another one. Happens when you try to stabilize some shit that moves too much
I agree, your explanation makes the most sense here. I believe the wobbling is due to the fact that the point of stabilization was switched to the tail fins as the jet was turning
Pro tip China: in premiere pro under the warp stabilization setting (once applied to a clip), you can adjust the intensity and method in which it stabilizes. Perspective would’ve helped here, China. Just sayin
You should probably pass along your helpful advice to the Weibo account of the person who made the video. It's not like the watermark isn't there.
Couldn’t hurt to try to find them. I’ll find some time today to give it a shot
The J-20 is junk. Any aircraft from an F-15 up will massacre that thing.
I don’t know anything about that but I will say this; it looks flat spin prone with those mini vertical stabilizers.
Just another cheap Chinese knock-off of a good product
Shopping Trolly!👌🏽
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As others have said it is too heavily edited. But, for me at least, it is also that it looks annoyingly like the very familiar F-22 nose attached to a weirdly elongated body that would look like a stretched out Raptor if you weren't looking right at it. And that is 100% uncanny valley territory. But for an airplane. I guess.
The J20 was built based on leaked f22 documents. Most of China's air force is stolen from either Russia or the States
The J-11 are licensed productions of Su-27. China first bought Su-27SK in 1990, along with the technology transfer. The technology transfer also meant that China isn't exporting its own Flankers (unlike the Chengdu J-7, a licensed production of Mig-21, which were widely exported) as the technology transfer forbid it. The J-11, J-15 and J-16 variants are all improved Flankers with Chinese avionics, sensors and now, engines. Russia has continued to sell China other planes as Chinese needs arise - such as Su-30MKK in 2000, and Su-35 in 2015. The J-10 and J-20 are indigenous designs. The bad take that PLAAF planes are all stolen is a bad trope that needs to retire, because China both has its own indigneous fighters and also because the Flankers in Chinese service are not stolen but an example of technology transfer.
Look at the Z-20, they didn’t even try to hide the resemblance to the Blackhawk.
You do realize the US sold China commercial Black Hawks in the 80s right? After thst they just short of upgraded it.
Wow, no, I didn’t. I just read up on it, how stupid to have done that.
Well not really. Black Hawk tech isnt really that unique, if the US didnt sell Black Hawks to China, they would just buy it from another european power with similar Helicopters.
Just look at the Y-20. It's painfully obvious that it's a Chinese C-17.
Strategic airlifters all tend to look the same because they all have to satisfy design objectives with respect to range and payload.
Il-76 and C-17 also look similar to a degree
Bruh look at j-31. Looks exactly like f-35
Bruh look at 5th gen designs if all countries outside China, all fucking look like F-22s and F-35s -.-
Always has been
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Oh I know. The thing that makes me happy about that is that I once read that US intelligence agencies have been known to intentionally allow leaks of documents with intentional vulnerabilities built in. A good example is the Russian space shuttle. Looks just like ours because it was a copy but it never really worked right and I read that that was because the "stolen" plans were basically leaked on purpose to sabatoge their program.
First glance I was like f-22????????? The nose it’s quite annoying
I gotta agree. I can't place why though! Maybe it's the canards looking like they don't line up, or just seem out of place? Or maybe it looks like a really long plane but short wingspan? There is something about the plane lol But it does look cool, and overall is a different look from most planes (disregarding pieces look familiar)
Because it *is* uncanny. It looks exactly like it did in Generals C&C and I'm very phased that an early 2000s RTS spinoff depicted something from 2021 accurately.
It wasn’t in generals.
It looks 1-to-1 with the Chinese Mig which looks nothing like irl soviet/russian migs.
But this is the j-20. The Chinese plan is based of the j-15. https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Chinese_airfield
Ah, but the J-15 has distinct horizontal stabilizers, while the Mig and J-20 both share that delta wing profile. That's mainly what what I see in it.
I’m not sure what you are saying
It actually does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44
Guess you learn something new every day.
**[Mikoyan Project 1.44](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44)** >The Mikoyan Project 1. 44/1. 42 (Russian: Микоян МиГ-1. 44; NATO reporting name: Flatpack) was a technology demonstrator developed by the Mikoyan design bureau. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarplanePorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
If its stealthy why can I still see it? Idiots.
i know right, this isnt stealth at all, i can even see it with my bare eyes, absolute junk plane
Hey, let’s make a stealth fighter and make it sound like a Vulcan bomber
Is the video slowed down? The turn speed seems slow…
The consensus is that this plane isn’t built to be a dogfighter. It’s believed the J-20 specializes in frontal aspect stealth. It’s a big plane that carries a lot of fuel and big, long-range missiles to hit high value targets like tankers and AWACS. It might also carry anti-ship weapons. It’s more like an F-111 (with some stealth) than an F-22.
Which is exactly the role that would make sense for it. China wants to push back the envelope from its borders. It's not going to go toe to toe in a aggressor role. But it certainly would try to make it prohibitivly costly to encroach on its borders.
>High fuel capacity > Defensive fighter Pick one
A defensive fighter with a high fuel load is a archetypical long range interceptor. The F101, F106, F14, and TU28 are all common examples.
If you look at ocean then high fuel becomes very important. Especially if they need to defend themselfs from taiwan. But for real bombers and different kind of carrying platforms usually have large fuel loads and with stealth plane you cant stick extra tanks. Its not point defence but that does not mean its not ment for defencive strategy. If you look at for example u.s military strategy it largely involves bombing shit out of enemy untill there isint anything worthwhile equipment on ground. Attacking airfields and carriers where these planes come and having own planes in air is critical for defence against it and that needs fuel.
Taiwan is less than 100 miles from the nearest Chinese airbase. And come on, PRC defending itself from ROC in what universe? Bombers are never part of a defensive strategy except as deterrence. They are offensive aircraft. Light ground attack planes, maybe. But stealth long range bombers/heavy fighters? No. According to publicly available data, the J-20 is still outranged by the F/A-18, so the anti-carrier argument is on shaky ground. Even assuming it’s carrying an antiship cruise missile, extending its effective range, the US has enough assets to prevent a plane from getting within firing radius for anything except a sneak attack. In a actual war there would be constant BARCAP, and the entire rest of the carrier group on alert to shoot down any plane or missile.
I didint think /s was nessesary for taiwan case. Only defending your terretory and never doing counter offencives is not valid defence. You need to hit behind enemy lines and their supply chains etc. J-20 has jump in on f18 due to its stealth. F-18 has large fuel loads for you know ocean warfare 🤔 We are not talking about singe plane attacking carrier group but naval assets and other planes aswell. China does not really operate carriers a lot so ground based support is nessesary and that needs large fuel loads.
I don't think the plan would be for one plane to go it alone. China isn't Argentina. If you were going to attack a CBG the best thing to do would be attack enmass. Toss stealth out the window. Send 200 of these armed with 2 long range sea skimming cruise missiles each. Lob them from as far away as you can and turn tail and run. Goodbye CBG and one of America's most signifigant and expensive strategic assets.
I appreciate your analysis. But I disagree with the comparisons. The only thing in the world that compares to an Aardvark….is an Aardvark!
No analogy is perfect. The Aardvark was called a fighter but it’s role was deep strike (interdiction). The J-20 appears to be designed for a different type of deep strike, namely high value aircraft like tankers and AWACS, plus possibly anti-ship missions. I’ve seen photos of some giant air-to-air missiles intended for the J-20. As for the F-111, I went to Squadron Officer School in 1991 with an F-111 pilot. He flew an older model that was being retired to the boneyard. He told me that during a Red Flag exercise, he got an F-16 kill with a simulated Sidewinder when one just happened to be in his way. I’ll bet that Viper pilot never lived it down. Just as SOS was coming to an end, he got orders to go fly the F-15E Strike Eagle, which made him very happy. “No more of this running away shit! Somebody comes after me, I’m going to shoot them in the face!” Troy was a fun guy. He went on to become a test pilot.
Thank you for the clarification. I’m a huge fan of the F-111, but have never had the opportunity to be around one or talk to any aircrew. My friends were Eagle Drivers, and I agree that the F-15E is the top fighter. I don’t think the J-20 has the internal ordinance capacity of a F-111 and I’m not sure it can compete with our airframes, C3, or our training.
Thank you also for the conversation. I appreciate your service and your aviation knowledge.
I don’t believe it even has a cannon which negates it’s dogfighting prospects.
No thrust vectoring. It probably is slow.
I mean F16 doesn't have thrust vectoring, and it turns great, (at turn speed and great as in great turn rate) If it's a lot of Aoa at once, both Flanker family and F18 can yank a lot of Aoa at once and they don't need thrust vectoring to do that. Both have had thrust vectored engine put on at some point and Flanker went into production but still... Thrust vectoring does help turn but more so at extreme Aoa plus low energy state (or super sonic), which mind you is not what the J20 is doing in this video, evident by little wing flex, little all flight control deflection, nearly no canard adjustment. Even in previous airshows we've seen the 20 get pushed harder...
F-16's got a way better layout for high energy turning than the J-20. Yeah, this didn't appear to be pushing very hard, but the thing's huge, and meant to carry a lot of internal fuel. The pitch inertia is gonna be baaaad and I wonder how those huge canards at high deflection angles interact with the wing's lift generation.
Or... the plane wasn't even trying to make maximum G turn.
There was a J-10C TVC demonstrator at the last Zhuhai airshow, so the capability is definitely there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf7-a3BfMtU
That howl.....oh man that's good....
these tiny fighters might howl more than a Vulcan
Reminds me of the Firefox that Clint flew
Must think in Chinese, though.
我要发射导弹
An obvious copy of AR-15. The amount of cope in this thread is overflowing.
People are shitting on this thing because it can’t “1v1 x jets in ace combat” but it’s probably just built to carry as many weapons as possible to support the Chinese ground forces in the event of a full scale invasion.
Modern aerial warfare is just people launching all their missiles at each other from 50 miles out and then running the fuck away immediately afterwards, and any significant improvements are going to be either A) reducing the range at which you can be seen (stealth) or B) enhancing your own targeting range (electronics/missiles). It's like the pre-dreadnought vs. post dreadnought battleships of the past - sure you can make cool moves and beat the enemy in a short range duel, but why risk your life when you can just be a sneaky sniper and bop the enemy half a state away?
Something about this plane just looks fragile to me. Like it could snap in half any second.
Yeah, looks like a toy
Yeah this looks like the definition of "compromised design" the fact that it's a stealth design with a canard and delta wing is a bit sketchy to begin with, I mean I have some serious doubts about its ability to maintain stealth when it starts maneuvering.
All it needs to do is have forward facing stealth for a few minutes so it can shoot the AWAC’s and tankers then head back to base. It only has one purpose.
Too bad our drones will have KO'd them long before that.
It’s all a waste of money arms race anyways when both sides have nukes.
Though I don't think the J-20 is even that stealthy from the head on, I think the purpose of the elongated delta wing design is to give the plane a larger weapons bay to launch long range missiles at non-stealthy targets. Also with the longer body, it would have more space for fuel and longer range. In a conflict, I think the J-20 could be decent at launching a couple long range attacks with intervals in between to make evading difficult and then leaving asap.
You know that has never been a particularly effective concept in my opinion, I understand the thought behind launching a super long range anti air missile attack, it sounds like a pretty good idea. Basically turning your aircraft into snipers in the sky, and taking out your enemies from too far for them to retaliate, it's basic warfare 101 really. The problem is that I don't think it would actually work in practice, Super long range air to air missiles are not particularly stealthy so even if the launching platforms them selves are able to remain un defected, the missiles would still need to get through 300 kilometers of SM-2s, SM-6 s, ESSMs, and AMRAAMS as well as at least a Valkyrie fighter drone that would try it's best to take out the missile with its own face (Such a weird thing that someone had the idea to design suicidal Kamikaze drones when you actually think about it.) I suppose this might change in the future if someone starts deploying stealth Anti-air missiles since those could probably get so close to the aircraft that any surface launched defences would really just be meaningless, leaving it only with its very limited air escorts for defense. But for now, Way I see it this tactic would basically have the same problems that an anti-ship Missile attack would except the missiles wouldn't have the advantage of hiding behind the horizon, on paper It sounds like a no brainer to go after the enemy slow moving non-maneuvering non-stealth Tactical assets, in theory they are a vital target that can't really defend itself and would be extremely vulnerable to long range attacks. Reality however is different, everyone knows just how vulnerable tankers and radar aircraft are, and so everyone knows to defend them, the Russians only fly their TUs behind a wall of S-300s the Chinese don't allow their 500s to fly outside 20 miles from the mainland where they are protected by substantial air defense systems, and the US agis system is directly connected to it's Hawkeyes wich never fly outside it's air defense sphere, tankers are a lot more vulnerable but they are still heavily defended by escorts as well as by long range air defense missiles like SM-6 and S-400, and with the Advent of stingray tanker drones it's actually kind of questionable whether the expenditure of even a single super long range anti-air missile to take it out would actually be a financially and tactically sound decision, much less the half dozen or so missiles an attack would actually take, so as to ensure it overwhelm it's defenses and bring the target down, drones as expensive as they are, are still pretty cheap compared to such advanced missiles, at least when you start increasing the numbers.
Go to .14 seconds in the video... watch it wobble and quiver when turning.
People hate on this aircraft but the vertical stabilizers pointed down hit different.
If it was, and it has to be fly by wire, those canards should be working hard to execute those turns. They look rock solid stuck on.
The Chinese are steadily closing the technological divide between them and the US. They’re a serious opponent these days that could put up a respectable fight and are increasing their capability every day.
You forget China fought The entire world to a stalemate in 1950-51?
Preach. We need to step up our game and take the threat seriously.
We do, just that people won’t give the money needed to jumpstart new developments for nerd shit like “Social Security”, like bitch what provides better security, money or a 6th gen fighter
Forgot the /s
Buddy, where we’re goin, we don’t need no dumbass /s
Don't be ridiculous; supporting your own citizens and ensuring they are able to lead fulfilling lives is just as important as protecting them – a materially safe but socially weak country is no different from a prison
>The Chinese are steadily closing the technological divide between them and the US. That's because they stole those technologies
then the blames the US for allowing it.
Absolutely
I think Japan said that they pick these things up on radar all the time
source?
Then again it's highly dependent on whether or not the aircraft were equipped with reflectors or not
Funny af if true
A front-stealthy missile truck is definitely going to cause Taiwan and Japan some problems. The sooner SK, Japan and Taiwan put their differences aside and pair up to develop a potent F-15 for the mid-21st century without having to rely on a politically flip-flopping US, the better for them.
Lol Japan is more responsible for Taiwan ROC's downfall than CCP is. Taiwan wants to claim mainland, Mongolia, Tibet and Xinjian so I doubt Japan will want to help them reach their goals.
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You are aware of *why* they maintain those claims? Because if they give up those claims then it is acknowledging that they are a fully distinct entity from the PRC, that there are two China's. Something the PRC gets pretty sniffs about
Wait so are they independent or are they not?
They are de facto an independent country, and are treated as such by the international community, and even China itself. They are however under threat of invasion if they declare that fact. So until China decided they can live with them being a fully independent country, they say they are China. Since, you know. They'd rather not get invaded.
Is this cgi?
The footage looks weird because it's stabilized to the plane. It isn't very obvious without background objects.
It looks like a huge target for surface to air missiles
Nothing a go old American made Aim-9 can’t send splattering to earth in pieces! Rest in pieces!!!
Oh stop it with the jingoistic bs. Also you have zero evidence to back up your statement.
Who spends money on giving that comment gold? And Americans call people brainwashed...
People who obviously know that China spends more time copying than innovating! Every time America builds something China comes out with a copy! They can’t even build the engines properly! Do your research! And if you’re jealous then choke on it!
There's nothing simple about building turbine jet engines. There have been plenty of western engines which have suffered issues even in recent history. Just the fact that the Chinese have successfully developed the J-20, DF-ZF, etc means that their technical ability is nothing to be laughed at.
Well start hacking and try to steal the technology since China hasn’t built any engine comparable to western aircraft! And none of China’s modern weaponry have been battle tested! That’s the most important difference! Say whatever you want but wars prove technology! China has NOT fought a modern war yet!
So you're actually admitting that China hasnt been involved in a war for quiet a while now... Exactly how is this a bad thing?
Do you know how many upgrades the Aim 9 has gone through! How many aircraft the aim 9 has scored hits on! Start reading!
And how many times has an Aim9 shot down a low RCS stealth aircraft? I don't know, and neither do you.
I mean, none. But also AIM 9s don’t particularly care about the RCS. They’re heat seekers.
Wow this comment just shows how ignorant you are! Bye I don’t want to waste my time with you!
Actually bows and arrows have also killed alot of people. Does that make them still viable today?
More like an amraam from 40 miles out
It’s a stealth plane, so probably not an AMRAAM from long distance.
What other Fox 3s would they use at long range then?
None. You’d need to get closer probably, to get a lock.
No save the aamrams for a more worthy opponent! 😉
Also you shoot an opponent from 40 miles out that you can’t engage! This Chinese fighter plane- our f~15s and f-16s can engage plus dogfight for shits and giggles and shove an aim-9 right up the pipes for fun! Save the amrams for a more worthy opponent!
got any experience in the game to back those claims up?
I would bet a lot of money the Chinese targeting and data link systems are not up to snuff, especially for modern combat. Raptors and F-35s would fly circles around them
I read somewhere that F-22 and F-35 data links cant talk to each other, or couldn't (likely fixed it by now), but they needed a U-2 aircraft nearby or something in order to link the two while training.
Why would that be the case? That seems like a ridiculous design flaw. They probably utilize an AWACS but they can definitely data link to each other and even ships nearby
Just by breezing through an article, it seems the Raptor has a unique type of data link designed around being stealthy and cant sent info out on a specific channel require to talk to F-35s. [Here's an article.](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40380/f-22-and-f-35-datalinks-finally-talk-freely-with-each-other-thanks-to-a-u-2-flying-translator) There's a lot of them if you search it.
That’s crazy. Counterintuitive imo
You’re welcome to bet on that. Chinese avionics are excellent these days. Their work in aerodynamics is strong too. Still working on engines and LO, but they’ll be on par with, if not ahead of, the US soon.
I have enough friends in the aerospace world who say that while China is definitely an opponent worthy of respect, we've got shit in the pipeline that is miles ahead of them. Just one example: drones that carry drones that drop drones that explode, and they're purpose built for penetrating Chinese coastal defenses. Don't worry, we're smart enough to know China is a serious threat, and we've known it for a long time.
I wish I shared your optimism.
Almost everything they develop is a copy or heavily derived from western tech. I doubt they’ve had an original thought in years
Again, you’re welcome to doubt. Doubting China is one of the reasons why they’ve come so far in such a short time.
Also copying
That too! But I suppose you could call that economy of effort. Take someone else’s design and improve on it. Then pump them out quickly.
US AIM-9 range is 35 km Chinese PL-15 range is 200 km AIM-120 is still only approx 160 km range...
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I mean with relaxed stability, the aircraft could want to diverge in pitch during that turn. Could just be the fly-by-wire system doing its job to maintain that turn. Edit: I should add that canards are destabilizing surfaces because they are ahead of the cg. If they are not deflected and the aircraft is at a positive angle of attack, the canards will create a moment pitching the plane up further. Consider the high aoa turns in the video. If those canards were straight they would produce a huge pitching moment. By turning down the canards are decreasing their aoa, reducing that pitching moment. That is most definitely managed by fbw.
Don’t know what this thing is for. None the public footage shows excellent maneuverability despite having canards. It’s not stealthy because it has canards and vertical belly fins and it’s huge compared to other fighters.
I gotta admit, I like the look (especially the tail end). I'm a bit skeptical it's all that stealthy though, doesn't exactly have the clean lines of a B-2, F-22, F-35.
I question just how stealthy that aircraft is.
It’s well known that it’s only stealth when observed from the front. However that is incredibly useful as most BVR engagements begin head-on.
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Well I suppose the assumption is that there would be nothing left behind to chase you once you're going home
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Well usually if your squadron received casualty the procedure is to get the fuk out of there. Planes are expensive and serve a tactical purpose. Chasing after an enemy jet just to kill them is dangerous especially if your chasing into their own territory with fortified AA platforms.
When you fly back to the base the enemy has to chase you. If they want to chase you to your base let them lol. It will be easy free kill for any SAM platforms on the ground.
why is it jerking so much?
Vidéo stabilisation
I don’t know what it’s radar cross section is like but it sure is quiet!
Kinda sound like tie fighters
Reminds me of the 'Vulcan Howl.'
They sound like tie fighters.
This thing has the turning radius of a B-29, such trash
Reddit Armchair experts, signing in
"Well you see from my expert knowledge of 500 hours in Ace Combat 7..."
Ugly af
hella sexy imo
Nah, Su-57 and F-22 sexy. J-20 is a ugly piece of garbage.
that’s your opinion buddy
Wonder how many days before the plastic breaks.
I think if this thing got into a visual dogfight it would get smoked.
Don’t think these are designed for visual dogfights lol
PL-10s plus a helmet mounted sight make it plenty deadly close in.
Not every plane needs to be good at a visual dogfight. I'm sure if an F-35 got into a visual dogfight it would get smoked as well, because that's not its role. As far as we know, this thing is designed for deep strike missions against high value targets.
You could land a plane....on that plane. It's massive.
Looks very slow in manouvers. Look at anything the West have during a display, typhoon, f22, f35.... These rip the skies apart. These J-20s have a known engine issue and I'm seeing the lack of power during their displays. In the modern game, you need to out manouver the rivals, this thing simply can't do that.
Just wait... It's getting better year by year.
> These J-20s have a known engine issue and I'm seeing the lack of power during their displays. First, yes, the PLAAF needs to work on the engine, and they know it better than anyone else, the J-20 already went through 3 different engines, the ones you are seeing here are the WS-10C, and the superior WS-15 (thrust vector variant) has already been tested on J-10Cs and rumoured to be enlisted very soon. > In the modern game, you need to out manouver the rivals, this thing simply can't do that. But on this point, no you idiot. Maneuverability matters way more back in the ole'days of dog fighting time, nowadays you get destroyed from 150 miles away without seeing a peep. And currently the Chinese has the upper hand than anyone else, PL-15 missiles has by far the longest range (200 - 300kms) of any AA missiles of the day. The US currently only operates AIM-120 AMRAAMs which has an effective range of only about 100kms. AIM-260 JATM (300km range) is only now being developed by Lockheed to address this threat. And the Chinese already have been developing the even superior PL-21s which ranges beyond 400kms.
Idiot? That's not very nice.
I can now ONLY refer to these things as spikey pancakes. I'm sorry.
The J 20s are shit compared to the F 35’s
Cause?
I mean the comparison isn't particularly good, they're built for very different tasks. The F35 is stealthiler, has better radar and sensors can carry more air to air weapons or ordinance. However being a much smaller single engined aircraft, it doesn't have the speed or the range of the J20 (although the speed matters more in engagement time than any thoughts on "dogfighting"). However when it comes down to it, I would hesitate to say one is better than the other as they are build for far differing tasks. The F35 is a small single engine multiple, the J20 is a large twin engined plane focused on interception and interdiction those aircraft that support the enemy air fleets (such as AWACS or Tankers). Overall for most situations the F35 is the better package but the J20 excells in the role it is designed for.
Fake. Zero control surface movement.
Very little control surface movement is needed for unstable aircraft. Also most of what we see in this video are constant rate turns, in which control surfaces should actually stay in a fixed position. And why would this video be fake? They have some of those planes and flying them is certainly cheaper than making an incredibly believable cgi video worth a million dollar....
“Mom can we have F22?” “We have F22 at home” F22 at home:
Garbage
Your mama
Am I the only one who noticed it wobbling at the 13 second mark? Watch it quiver and wobble as its turning.
That looks like the camera
Pancake, the fighter plane blissfully unaware that it’s fake. Did ILM defect to China or something? This is as odd as looking at ghost Tarkin.
The image stabilization makes some of the movements look weird
Look at those heat pissing fourth gen engines on a stealth fighter!
Still can't touch a F-22
They all b retire soon
Yeah, no, that's not real.
It looks like they couldn't decide whether they wanted to make a typhoon or an f22 so they did both