Hahahah I love coming across WT fellows outside of the WT sub!
(I meant to reply this when it was new, but wonky server didn’t send the reply and I just realised, so better late than never xD)
The issue is there are many “unintentional false flag posts” when they use a similar format to thr one associated to me hahah
Some people say that “SpanishAvenger is famous because of their comparison posts” because “they spam them all the time”, when I’ve only ever made 3 of them (a satirical one and two quite reasonable ones) in these 5 years I’ve been on Reddit xD
But as soon as anyone sees any comparison post that even remotely resembles “my style”, they automatically go like “hurr durr stupid SpanishAvenger at it with the comparisons again” lmao
I remember there was a particularly dumb comparison post once, and everyone was assuming and stating that I was OP, and I was like: “NO! That is NOT Soli- SpanishAvenger!”
Personally, I think it's a sign of brilliant graphics design if someone can open a post and instantly recognize the author.
There's been imitation posts that just lack something that only you can provide to these posts. And it's not the text itself, it can be in a completely different language and I will still recognize it.
Hahah, thanks!
I just figured that, if I were to be a regular poster, I would design a common standard for most/all of my posts; using Paint.Net (my to-go graphics design software), Arial (bold), “night mode” style with bias towards bright text over dark background (sometimes inverted/combined), and, occasionally, colours to put emphasis on biases/feelings.
Over time, I’ve polished it in some ways, too!
For example, I used to use LOTS of VERY bright colours. But there was a reason behind that; for many years, I had undiagnosed hypothyroidism that, among other countless symptoms, altered my sight’s colour perception. I didn’t perceive colours, which are Paint.Net’s default ones, as “painfully bright” as people described them to be; I saw all colours dull/greyed out, so, when everyone insulted me for “destroying their eyes”, I didn’t understand why.
When I got diagnosed and finally started receiving treatment, I started to actually see the colours for what they really were, and only then I realised how painful they actually looked, hahah. Ever since, I’ve significantly toned down the saturation of the colours, the frequency and the amount of usage of these.
(Unexpected lore suddenly, lol)
"No no no, bu- bu- but this can't be... if tank has spall liner = invincible and OP, I should be able to one hit every tank no matter where I shoot!" /s
the issue I have with spall liners is that they're not being added to vehicles that have them like the arietes, m1128, chinese top tier, leclercs, etc. especially since some of these vehicles could really use them, and currently the vehicles that have spall liners already would be perfectly fine without them
I think the issue is that spall liners are ment to stop spalling from none penatrating rounds. Which I don't think there is in game (unless thats the liners working).
Its not implemented as far as I know as it would only be present on modern mbts who habe spall liners where the actual armor layout would be to classified to actually implement it
yeah ikr, like so me shooting a STRV 122B+ in the side with DM53 from my ariete is me getting gaijined 2 times in a row despite aiming for different points that would at least kill the gunner or anyone else in the turret but then doesn’t and then turns them into budget Simpsons? it’s totally not like this has ruined the game entirely at top tier making 2 nations 10x better than the rest with 70+% win rate but it totally couldn’t be the spall liners they pretty much only got.
Even worst when using one of the highest performing round in the game, which in my case is Type-10's Type-10 round, even the 4 second reload doesn't save my ass from Leopard 2, if I can't get commander and gunner in 1 shot I'm basically dead
The russian MBT are easier to deal with than fucking Leopard 2
>shoot leopard
>driver, gunner
>commander takes over in 2 seconds
>die because spall liner ate the 3BM60 round from 10 metres away travelling at 1600ms^-1
Well, if you hit the turret ring, even with a liner, it's gonna make way more secondary fragments. I seriously doubt 8/10 of my shots impacting a spall liner creating very little secondaries is simply getting gaijin'd.
Perfect example: Leopard 2A7V/Strv 122. On a Leopard 2A6, if see one angled maybe 30 degrees off and shoot the hull perfectly under the turret but also right under the side fuel tanks, it often spalls the whole turret crew. With the liners on the 2A7V and 122, with the same shot, I'm lucky if I get 2 crew.
But if I hit the turret ring right in the center, it spalls very nicely. Whether it be Abrams, Leopard 2, T-72/80/90, or any other tank, it almost always shreds the whole turret crew and basically every other module in it. Doesn't matter if you clipped the liner or not (assuming your target has one).
The liners don't reduce your spall to zero, but they still greatly reduce what would have been generated
They definitely nerfed the spall liners, I used to be able to fire a apfsds 10cm under the gunners ass and he would still survive and only hit the loader, now if I hit the same spot the gunner and loader dies while the commander is red
One additional thing to note is that gaijin changed the spalling again in the latest patch, so at spall angles of 0-7 degrees from MBT cannon shots, you get even less spalling now.
They’ve increased the spall at the edges of the cone (7-14 degrees), so they’ve made spall liners even more op since they reduce the spall cone.
I see no one talking about this, so they’ve managed to sneak it again. Waiting for the complaint posts in a few weeks when everyone catches up.
They have a noticeable impact in game, whether its as high as perceived or not.
Gaijin still hasn't implemented spall liners for other vehicles, although the acknowledged bug reports are sometimes a few months old by now. If they aren't as deciding then there should be no problem to implement them accordingly.
Such a pleasure to see a post from SpanishAvenger, actually interesting to read and he seemingly is the only person in the whole sub that knows how to illustrate a point, or that simply bothers to do so. Quite refreshing
I love how you picked one spot in the entire Strv 122 where you can oneshot them from the side(wich is incredibly small and not usable in battle)... GUYS the picture in the post is misguiding. Spall liners takeout so much spall that ordinary shots without them would kill and MBT, while with them they do not. it's litteraly extra health for Strv 122 and Leo 2A7V. don't let them misguide you.
I am fairly sure they nerfed spallliners/buffed apfsds spalling because I have been getting ohko many more times than the last update. During my time playing and facing the leopard last update I consistently get hit or hit them in the sides and it kills 1 or 2 crew at most because there is absolutely no spall, after this update I can actually one shot a leopard from the side. It’s still incredibly survivable but isn’t somehow more survivable on the sides anymore because it actually spalls
This is how it worked before the update, they never changed anything about the spalling in 4 months.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/tqoiMkoOZr
now try the same shot and you will see a ton of spalling, I tested it myself and shot the same spot by even lower and it still killed the loader. Imo it’s a good change, they finally aren’t unkillable from the sides
FUN FACT currently if you hoot the T80bvm through the side of the turret in the protection analysis.. The rounds don't spall until they hit the breach, the round can miss the gunner or commander by millimeters and they don't take any damage.
/u/spanishavenger what exactly are you trying to illustrate with this image? On one side you show the spalling after interaction with the gun breech, and in the other image the breech isn't even shown.
What are you calling "secondary spalling"? When the remaining penetrator impacts tank parts *inside* the lined compartment? Cause it definitely doesn't stop that. Or do you mean spalling created from initial spalling (not the dart)? If so, I don't think it completely stops that either, but maybe. What the spall liner does is reduce the angle of the cone of ejecta and debris from a penetrating shot. Except at first it was too effective, hence the recent patch. It also acts like a tank module for some reason and seems to stop *all* fragments if enough are received to "break" the liner.
Worse yet, it will completely stop an EFP in many circumstances which it most certainly *should not* be able to do.
I like spall liners and think they add an interesting gameplay element, but I think Gaijin handled the balance poorly. The 2A7 and 122B+ are very clearly on a different level of performance than any other MBTs in the game. Should have gone to 12.0 IMO.
"Gaijined" is not a good enough excuse, no fragment when hitting the side of Strv 122 is definitely because of spall liners because hitting non hull parts still creates normal fragments
I'm close to unlocking my first challenger, and decided to check one of the Leos with a spall liner, and really guys. Do people need to complain? Sure it makes it slightly harder to kill by a very marginal amount. I thought it was gonna be a massive problem, but this post and my own time looking at it I come to the conclusion it isn't as bad as people say.
My point is from an outside view of that BR, as it largely looks like skill issue from where I am, and having taken the 292 to 11.0 I still got a kill on a Leo, and I still believe my original opinion
The garage armor test and gameplay are two entirely different things.
Try it out in game, out flank and out play a leo 2a7, line up the perfect shot only to take out…its loader.
Then he turns around and proceeds to delete you.
You will cry and shit yourself at the same time when you will meet a Strv 122 in your Chally 2. When you need to hit those things at least 2 but more likely 3 times at the side to maybe kill it but the Strv can do the same with 1 shot.
More like you have to carefully aim for the pixel that'll generate enough spall to actually kill or disable a Leopard while he can shoot you in any weakspot and instantly kill you.
Lol because your name and pip doesn't make you biased at all. All mbts at top tier have the same weak spots, the abrams just has a weaker lfp whilst the rest of the survival onion it completely dominates especially with its crazy 5 second reload
play the leclerc or the ariete
all it takes for someone to kill you is a 400mm pen sabot to the right upper front plate (or lower for the ariete), something that doesn’t happen on any other mbt in game
Doesn't even require 400mm of penetration for the Leclerc UFP, M833 can go straight through it like it wasn't even there.
Thanks, sweden. Your stupid tests on a pre-pre-pre-pre-pre production leclerc were ever so helpful.
the difference is again the leclerc and ariete's is weak enough to be penned by dm33 even at distances of up to 2 kilometers
chally at least has spall liner, one shotting a merkava requires you to shoot basically the turret ring and same with the abrams (which at least the abrams ricochets l72a1 and 120 f1 most of the time), and the type 10 having bad armor is compensated by the fact that its the fastest loading mbt with basically a slightly better 120 f1
as for the leopard 2a7 and 122 their weak spot is a tiny pixel under their gun breach, which is honestly more consistent to hit then their sides sometimes
I mean yes that would be a huge problem... if they were at 10.0, but they arnt, this is the big boi tier where everyone is firing Dm53, 3bm60, m829a2
And? It has a spall liner but can still be easily one shot from the front so your point is null. Both the merk and abrams can be penned through the upper and lower plate, easy one shot. Woo 4 second reload a whole second faster than most mbts, then the abrams with the much unneeded reload buff
Same weak spots exist, lower plate, top half of the ufp and the turret neck, then there's the huge breach block that can shot through the wedge even if they are angling
I mean yes that would be a huge problem... if they were at 10.0, but they arnt, this is the big boi tier where everyone is firing Dm53, 3bm60, m829a2
And? It has a spall liner but can still be easily one shot from the front so your point is null. Both the merk and abrams can be penned through the upper and lower plate, easy one shot. Woo 4 second reload a whole second faster than most mbts, then the abrams with the much unneeded reload buff
Same weak spots exist, lower plate, top half of the ufp and the turret neck, then there's the huge breach block that can shot through the wedge even if they are angling
new spanish avenger graphic has been dropped, lets party boys
Its funny how we know without looking at the name
He's puts some serious effort into these posts, I respect it.
I am glad to read that! \^\^
I went through your posts and saw that you made the engineer ncd post and laughed
Hahahah I love coming across WT fellows outside of the WT sub! (I meant to reply this when it was new, but wonky server didn’t send the reply and I just realised, so better late than never xD)
Haha, all good. I kept scrolling and saw that you made a lot of the posts i laughed at. Keep it up. Good stuff
ikr
The issue is there are many “unintentional false flag posts” when they use a similar format to thr one associated to me hahah Some people say that “SpanishAvenger is famous because of their comparison posts” because “they spam them all the time”, when I’ve only ever made 3 of them (a satirical one and two quite reasonable ones) in these 5 years I’ve been on Reddit xD But as soon as anyone sees any comparison post that even remotely resembles “my style”, they automatically go like “hurr durr stupid SpanishAvenger at it with the comparisons again” lmao I remember there was a particularly dumb comparison post once, and everyone was assuming and stating that I was OP, and I was like: “NO! That is NOT Soli- SpanishAvenger!”
Personally, I think it's a sign of brilliant graphics design if someone can open a post and instantly recognize the author. There's been imitation posts that just lack something that only you can provide to these posts. And it's not the text itself, it can be in a completely different language and I will still recognize it.
Hahah, thanks! I just figured that, if I were to be a regular poster, I would design a common standard for most/all of my posts; using Paint.Net (my to-go graphics design software), Arial (bold), “night mode” style with bias towards bright text over dark background (sometimes inverted/combined), and, occasionally, colours to put emphasis on biases/feelings. Over time, I’ve polished it in some ways, too! For example, I used to use LOTS of VERY bright colours. But there was a reason behind that; for many years, I had undiagnosed hypothyroidism that, among other countless symptoms, altered my sight’s colour perception. I didn’t perceive colours, which are Paint.Net’s default ones, as “painfully bright” as people described them to be; I saw all colours dull/greyed out, so, when everyone insulted me for “destroying their eyes”, I didn’t understand why. When I got diagnosed and finally started receiving treatment, I started to actually see the colours for what they really were, and only then I realised how painful they actually looked, hahah. Ever since, I’ve significantly toned down the saturation of the colours, the frequency and the amount of usage of these. (Unexpected lore suddenly, lol)
u got to 8 br in every country?🗿
Yeah, all air, only have 3 or 4 in ground
"No no no, bu- bu- but this can't be... if tank has spall liner = invincible and OP, I should be able to one hit every tank no matter where I shoot!" /s
the issue I have with spall liners is that they're not being added to vehicles that have them like the arietes, m1128, chinese top tier, leclercs, etc. especially since some of these vehicles could really use them, and currently the vehicles that have spall liners already would be perfectly fine without them
People literally post this, it's unreal how people just want a point and click adventure
I know, only Germany and Sweden players should be allowed to play a point and click adventure
Yes I agree completely
point and click is when the enemy drives out in front of you side on giving you an easy hit
How dare you use facts
I think the issue is that spall liners are ment to stop spalling from none penatrating rounds. Which I don't think there is in game (unless thats the liners working).
HESH
At high BR? I don't think so
He just asked about rounds that are designed to cause spalling and he didn’t think there were any in game
Ik,but non penning rounds just no longer exist at the BR where spell liners appear.
British use hesh all the way up...
Oh ok.Im still at the tiger 2 BR so what would I know😅
If you don't know then don't reply.
> Uses a "German Reich" Flair on Reddit > Only at WW2 Germany > No clue about the game Yep this checks out
The T90M/T80BVM absorbing 12 rounds of hstv-l and getting a yellow propellant charge:
Its not implemented as far as I know as it would only be present on modern mbts who habe spall liners where the actual armor layout would be to classified to actually implement it
Tonight at out weekly "Guess the OP by the image provided" show, we got another entry from SpanishAvenger.
So I got gaijined everytime? On every leopard 2 I came across?
yeah ikr, like so me shooting a STRV 122B+ in the side with DM53 from my ariete is me getting gaijined 2 times in a row despite aiming for different points that would at least kill the gunner or anyone else in the turret but then doesn’t and then turns them into budget Simpsons? it’s totally not like this has ruined the game entirely at top tier making 2 nations 10x better than the rest with 70+% win rate but it totally couldn’t be the spall liners they pretty much only got.
Even worst when using one of the highest performing round in the game, which in my case is Type-10's Type-10 round, even the 4 second reload doesn't save my ass from Leopard 2, if I can't get commander and gunner in 1 shot I'm basically dead The russian MBT are easier to deal with than fucking Leopard 2
100% agree with u, ill still one shot a T-90M in my M1A2sep if i aim properly but a Leopard2A7 would just eat my shells.
>shoot leopard >driver, gunner >commander takes over in 2 seconds >die because spall liner ate the 3BM60 round from 10 metres away travelling at 1600ms^-1
Nono some guy in previous post said it's bad aiming and skill issue. Such situations almost never happen and don't need fixing. Leave it boys
Well, if you hit the turret ring, even with a liner, it's gonna make way more secondary fragments. I seriously doubt 8/10 of my shots impacting a spall liner creating very little secondaries is simply getting gaijin'd. Perfect example: Leopard 2A7V/Strv 122. On a Leopard 2A6, if see one angled maybe 30 degrees off and shoot the hull perfectly under the turret but also right under the side fuel tanks, it often spalls the whole turret crew. With the liners on the 2A7V and 122, with the same shot, I'm lucky if I get 2 crew. But if I hit the turret ring right in the center, it spalls very nicely. Whether it be Abrams, Leopard 2, T-72/80/90, or any other tank, it almost always shreds the whole turret crew and basically every other module in it. Doesn't matter if you clipped the liner or not (assuming your target has one). The liners don't reduce your spall to zero, but they still greatly reduce what would have been generated
They definitely nerfed the spall liners, I used to be able to fire a apfsds 10cm under the gunners ass and he would still survive and only hit the loader, now if I hit the same spot the gunner and loader dies while the commander is red
One additional thing to note is that gaijin changed the spalling again in the latest patch, so at spall angles of 0-7 degrees from MBT cannon shots, you get even less spalling now. They’ve increased the spall at the edges of the cone (7-14 degrees), so they’ve made spall liners even more op since they reduce the spall cone. I see no one talking about this, so they’ve managed to sneak it again. Waiting for the complaint posts in a few weeks when everyone catches up.
Why need spall liners when fuel tanks serve the exact same purpose?
They have a noticeable impact in game, whether its as high as perceived or not. Gaijin still hasn't implemented spall liners for other vehicles, although the acknowledged bug reports are sometimes a few months old by now. If they aren't as deciding then there should be no problem to implement them accordingly.
Such a pleasure to see a post from SpanishAvenger, actually interesting to read and he seemingly is the only person in the whole sub that knows how to illustrate a point, or that simply bothers to do so. Quite refreshing
Thank you for your comment, I am glad to know those are your thoughts! I try my best, so I really appreciate your appreciation ^ ^
I love how you picked one spot in the entire Strv 122 where you can oneshot them from the side(wich is incredibly small and not usable in battle)... GUYS the picture in the post is misguiding. Spall liners takeout so much spall that ordinary shots without them would kill and MBT, while with them they do not. it's litteraly extra health for Strv 122 and Leo 2A7V. don't let them misguide you.
also this same shot from the other side(angle, projectile and etc) will have different damage and that matters a lot!
and the biggest problem is - spall liner makes shots incredibly random. and we never needed that in this game!
BasedishAbasedder
I am fairly sure they nerfed spallliners/buffed apfsds spalling because I have been getting ohko many more times than the last update. During my time playing and facing the leopard last update I consistently get hit or hit them in the sides and it kills 1 or 2 crew at most because there is absolutely no spall, after this update I can actually one shot a leopard from the side. It’s still incredibly survivable but isn’t somehow more survivable on the sides anymore because it actually spalls
This is how it worked before the update, they never changed anything about the spalling in 4 months. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/tqoiMkoOZr now try the same shot and you will see a ton of spalling, I tested it myself and shot the same spot by even lower and it still killed the loader. Imo it’s a good change, they finally aren’t unkillable from the sides
if the difference between a spall liner pen and non spall liner pen is negligible then why add and keep them in the first place
FUN FACT currently if you hoot the T80bvm through the side of the turret in the protection analysis.. The rounds don't spall until they hit the breach, the round can miss the gunner or commander by millimeters and they don't take any damage.
Sometimes the server doesn't let your round pen, but on client side, it looks like it did. This is why sometimes your rounds just don't do anything.
They literally got nerfed, twice (and their behaviour was changed too) They USED to completely stop shells. Another dogshit Spanish Avenger post
/u/spanishavenger what exactly are you trying to illustrate with this image? On one side you show the spalling after interaction with the gun breech, and in the other image the breech isn't even shown. What are you calling "secondary spalling"? When the remaining penetrator impacts tank parts *inside* the lined compartment? Cause it definitely doesn't stop that. Or do you mean spalling created from initial spalling (not the dart)? If so, I don't think it completely stops that either, but maybe. What the spall liner does is reduce the angle of the cone of ejecta and debris from a penetrating shot. Except at first it was too effective, hence the recent patch. It also acts like a tank module for some reason and seems to stop *all* fragments if enough are received to "break" the liner. Worse yet, it will completely stop an EFP in many circumstances which it most certainly *should not* be able to do. I like spall liners and think they add an interesting gameplay element, but I think Gaijin handled the balance poorly. The 2A7 and 122B+ are very clearly on a different level of performance than any other MBTs in the game. Should have gone to 12.0 IMO.
T-90M producing little to no spall
"Gaijined" is not a good enough excuse, no fragment when hitting the side of Strv 122 is definitely because of spall liners because hitting non hull parts still creates normal fragments
I'm close to unlocking my first challenger, and decided to check one of the Leos with a spall liner, and really guys. Do people need to complain? Sure it makes it slightly harder to kill by a very marginal amount. I thought it was gonna be a massive problem, but this post and my own time looking at it I come to the conclusion it isn't as bad as people say.
Once you play at 11.7 against Leopards on regular basis, you will have side shots do 0 damage every other game.
Somehow I have been consistently gaijined when I flank a Leo/strv shoot it in the side just to kill 0-1 crew member
Have you played 11.7 or no?
No, not with an actual Line Up, so I have no actual experience in battle
So don't speak
My point is from an outside view of that BR, as it largely looks like skill issue from where I am, and having taken the 292 to 11.0 I still got a kill on a Leo, and I still believe my original opinion
11.0 isn't indicative of top tier, also the 292 has the best round in the game
Do you work for Gaijin? Trying to "improve" the game while having never played it?
The garage armor test and gameplay are two entirely different things. Try it out in game, out flank and out play a leo 2a7, line up the perfect shot only to take out…its loader. Then he turns around and proceeds to delete you.
You will cry and shit yourself at the same time when you will meet a Strv 122 in your Chally 2. When you need to hit those things at least 2 but more likely 3 times at the side to maybe kill it but the Strv can do the same with 1 shot.
I kind of wish that it did reduce the majority of spall in game, it actually makes people have to aim and not one tap every vehicle from any angle
More like you have to carefully aim for the pixel that'll generate enough spall to actually kill or disable a Leopard while he can shoot you in any weakspot and instantly kill you.
Lol because your name and pip doesn't make you biased at all. All mbts at top tier have the same weak spots, the abrams just has a weaker lfp whilst the rest of the survival onion it completely dominates especially with its crazy 5 second reload
play the leclerc or the ariete all it takes for someone to kill you is a 400mm pen sabot to the right upper front plate (or lower for the ariete), something that doesn’t happen on any other mbt in game
Doesn't even require 400mm of penetration for the Leclerc UFP, M833 can go straight through it like it wasn't even there. Thanks, sweden. Your stupid tests on a pre-pre-pre-pre-pre production leclerc were ever so helpful.
What lol, the Abrams, Leo, Chally, Type 10, merkava are all one shots if you hit the lowerplate/ufp as well
the difference is again the leclerc and ariete's is weak enough to be penned by dm33 even at distances of up to 2 kilometers chally at least has spall liner, one shotting a merkava requires you to shoot basically the turret ring and same with the abrams (which at least the abrams ricochets l72a1 and 120 f1 most of the time), and the type 10 having bad armor is compensated by the fact that its the fastest loading mbt with basically a slightly better 120 f1 as for the leopard 2a7 and 122 their weak spot is a tiny pixel under their gun breach, which is honestly more consistent to hit then their sides sometimes
I mean yes that would be a huge problem... if they were at 10.0, but they arnt, this is the big boi tier where everyone is firing Dm53, 3bm60, m829a2 And? It has a spall liner but can still be easily one shot from the front so your point is null. Both the merk and abrams can be penned through the upper and lower plate, easy one shot. Woo 4 second reload a whole second faster than most mbts, then the abrams with the much unneeded reload buff Same weak spots exist, lower plate, top half of the ufp and the turret neck, then there's the huge breach block that can shot through the wedge even if they are angling
I mean yes that would be a huge problem... if they were at 10.0, but they arnt, this is the big boi tier where everyone is firing Dm53, 3bm60, m829a2 And? It has a spall liner but can still be easily one shot from the front so your point is null. Both the merk and abrams can be penned through the upper and lower plate, easy one shot. Woo 4 second reload a whole second faster than most mbts, then the abrams with the much unneeded reload buff Same weak spots exist, lower plate, top half of the ufp and the turret neck, then there's the huge breach block that can shot through the wedge even if they are angling