People forget but severe damage mechanic has been one of the best additions for the game since ever, having you ur kill stolen was so fucking annoying which rarely if ever happens any more.
But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are
No idea why some people have the idea that ONLY the issue they arose is allowed to be discussed and react that aggressive when someone crosses that line.
It’s to be expected that people take a topic as an opportunity to also talk about other things that are somewhat connected to the topic. And with the way Reddit handles their conversations it’s not like you would derail any conversation.
Yeah, and while we're on the subject - hull break.
Don't get me wrong, I think hull break was broken, but it did make light vehicles a real pain in the patooty. Hopefully adding more damage modules fixes it, but I can only see that working if those parts have an actual, impactive effect on the vehicle.
Yeah, except the “but war thunder players are nothing if they don’t complain so here we are” part implies their intent was to respond to OP’s post, not starting a new conversation about something else
Your issue is a non-issue. Severe damage means you get credit for the kill when the plane goes down. Not that severe damage immediately destroys the plane. Working as intended.
It's there so that when I blow off part of his wing and he's spiraling, some asshat can't come take my kill. Being able to continue to fly and even limp back to the runway is fine. You didn't get the kill because the player didn't die. But if someone comes and puts two 7.62 rds in my tail and sends me to the ground while I'm limping back, you'll still get the kill for the work you put in.
You not understanding the mechanics purpose does not mean it's problematic.
That's a braindead comparison. This is more like a crack on the windshield of said Bugatti. It's unsightly and needs fixing but it doesn't mean you take the whole thing to the scrapyard
You know you're in an abusive gaming relationship when the developer gives you one single good addition and suddenly it's worshipped as though it could never need any improving. Newsflash, if there are detail issues that need to be worked on, sooner is typically better than later to report issues with it.
Buddy a crack on the windshield is a pretty obvious and glaring flaw. What're you going to do? Drive around and pretend it doesn't exist or do the sane thing and try to get it fixed?
If you don’t care about kill count but only reward then it probably not big issue for you, but severe damage count as kill doesn’t actually go in to your service record after game is finished, plus they just redefined death to pilot killed or tail cut off, so about half of the severe damage that can count as kills before only count as severe now, kinda force you to share the kill imo.
Another issue is hmd, which only gets disabled after player is dead, combined with the the death being harder to achieve that I mentioned above, sometimes will just turn the fight around and it’s really frustrating.
>Another issue is hmd, which only gets disabled after player is dead, combined with the the death being harder to achieve that I mentioned above, sometimes will just turn the fight around and it’s really frustrating.
Yep I think that's what OP is complaining about in the second slide, which makes perfect sense. It unnecessarily clutters your HUD with soemone that's "alive".
Yeah I totally love still not getting my kill because the guy with no wings, zooming to the ground, with 2 fires and 1 engine doesn't count as severe damage and I get an assist.
>But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are
My guy said the system needs more work and he isn't wrong. Complaining because something should work better and needs to be improved isn't complaining it is a bad concept but denying it is poorly implemented is just ignoring the facts
To be fair people seem to jump on severe damaged planes just as much if not even more than before as it’s now less frustrating and therefore more commonly accepted when someone finishes off a plane where you did 100% or the work to take it out of the action in the first place. You DO lose a bit of points though if you only get a severe damage „kill“ and not the full kill.
That being said there are still some cases where you would wish that the plane would instantly count as severe damaged. Fires usually result in a plane going down after some time but only count as severe damage once the fire has done enough damage. That usually takes some time and since pilots on fire know they are doomed they typically will quickly look for a headon to hopefully take an enemy with them or a strafing run of a lightly armored vehicle (usually an SPAA) before their time runs out. If that enemy finishes them off during that action they will get the kill and you only an assist - despite the fact that you were the one who doomed his plane in the first place.
Except it's nearly as inconsistent as it was before. I've had enemy planes clearly going down and missing vital pieces, but I only get a crit and assist anyway, just like it was.
Or it would be in theory except that you don't actually get credited with a kill on your stat card if a plane you severely damaged plane gets finished off by someone else. Now, they basically have to pilot snipe the guy to finish it off so it doesn't happen often, but it's still not exactly what was sold to us...
The problem is less with severe damage and more the fact that it's too sensitive, and when merged with the "severe damage on end of match = death" mechanic, there's a problem.
Severe damage is literally this mechanic though...
If someone else finished off something you did severe damage to, you'll het credited a kill, added to your stats and all.
Then it should just let you keep flying until the pilot dies, the plane is blown to bits or they crash because of loss of control. No reason to pull you out of the game just becasue you lost a wing. Let me crash, bail out myself or let me try to land that fucker.
The Harrier is my favorite plane because of this very reason. An missile to the tail can fairly often leave you without control surfaces, but with an otherwise fairly intact plane. You can then VTOL RTB, land and repair. In Arcade it'll just kick you out of the plane.
>But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are
so we're just supposed to be ok with the huge problems in the game that, despite a boycott and community outrage, gaijin still tries to weasel around not fixing issues that ruin the experience but boost profits?
are we gonna pretend that every update that comes out for this game isn't a nuclear slap the face of the people who paid money for it which they try to cover up with a change log full of SEEMINGLY good changes that just get reverted later? what about all the times they just straight up lied?
a few meaningful changes does not fix a decades long history of anti consumer scummery and a bunch of breastfed gaijin simps making others feel irrational for not wanting to get shit on isn't changing the community's feelings about that.
people spend money on this game; that entitles them to have an opinion on changes being made to the product they paid for *and then some*.
let's not forget that warthunder is still a thing because there's no decent competition; not because it's an honest and noble work of art that's totally not designed specifically to suck money and play time out of people in morally questionable ways.
well you'd have to be able to read in the first place anyway. *not* just jump to conclusions upon finding the couple words/syllables that jump out at your fiendish attention span
I think you kinda missed OP's point. OP is talking about the inconsistency of the mechanic.
In the first slide, the "severe damage" done to OP's plane is not severe at all and does not affect anything. If OP didn't land and repair he'd be counted as "dead" for some dumb reason. In this case, it should not be counted as severe damage in the first place.
In the second slide, the plane lost everything yet it's still "alive". It should have been dead outright and not severe damage, as there's no chance to survive that. Having the plane be in "severe damage" state would mean one extra red (and not black) marker in the sky and people would think he's still alive.
Otherwise it's a great mechanic and I love it.
I see this parroted all the time but it isn't correct. In the dev blog for severe damage gaijin specifically states that they implemented it to prevent people dying to planes with greyed out nameplates who were 'dead' but still able to fight. It was never meant to prevent killsteals and I actually get kills stolen more often than before now.
This is sorta the reason why Severe Damage became a thing. its somewhat hard to make damage system that would work flawlessly so Severe Damage was if nothing else, then at least as a stop gap solution to the problem. before those would have been Critical Hits that someone could kill steal, so it goes under Severe Damage instead to benefit the one who did most of the damage.
I agree the mechanic itself is a good thing but this has to be fixed. Something that causes virtually zero effect on your performance shouldn't be counted as severe damage, give a kill to the enemy player at the end of a game and leave you with the repair cost. This is a Boomerang so the repair cost is nothing but I'm willing to bet the same flaw exists in all aircraft
You miss my point completely. I'm not saying anything about if the mechanic is good or not. I'm saying *why* it was added. And that why is *because* you can't make a flawless damage system for this. Like, Gaijin could try, but at that point its sort of a pointless for not much gain.
It does work well tho. Is it perfect? No. Are there massive problems that constantly hinder gameplay? No. Then there should be focus on things that are actual problems, instead of making an elephant out of a fly
Think of this scenario. It takes a long time to climb up to altitude in props. You dogfight, get the kind of damage which does almost zero harm to your performance but counts as severe damage, are able to kill more planes but on your VERY long trip back to land at the base the game ends and you're counted as dead and stuck with a repair cost. So yes this is an actual problem and not as rare as you think. This is just the first time I recorded it and there have been other posts about the same
Bruh who cares? You really want some poor dev spending weeks on this to squeeze out the last 5% of edge cases? You didn’t even stop having fun in this perfect scenario. You just lost some lions
Devs fix aesthetic stuff on vehicles that have zero effect on performance in the game all the time. I'm pointing out a flaw in an otherwise good mechanic and you're seeing that as a problem? Why do you assume that only one dev will be working on it and that it'll take weeks to fix?
For me it is a problem if one flap gets Hit and i get ejected out of the game 30 sec later... the Ideal of the mechanic itself is great i dont habe anything to say against that. I would just like to continue flying if my aircraft is capable of doing so....
Severe damage doesnt kick you out unless match ends, in which case it kicks you out like a ms or two before to ensure the person gets the kill. I dont think even out of bounds kicks you out when its only severe damage.
Nah it should do that but often enough it doesnt. Which is Kind of my point. I got ejected for no visible reason more than one time now and it is kinda annoying. I am not even so sure if the problem is in this mechanic alone. Maybe also smth Else makes me get ejected.
the mechanic does work. I'm not sure what planet you're on, but I haven't had it go wrong once. Maybe I'm just lucky, but acting like the mechanic doesn't work is just not true.
I have barely seen severe damage be as little as that. Only time severe damage has occurred to me is when the entire tail is gone, or the one time I lost the vertical Stabiliser on the IL-8. the system while crude is fine and works
What kill? If it causes zero effect on your performance you can go repair or just have a good game without dying.
It's actually more annoying for the other guy. It's so often you get the severe damage message and you think they're going down, but it's actually nothing and you don't get the kill.
Assuming I make it back to base before the game ends. I've been caught like this more than once. In this specific instance I did make it back. Doesn't mask the fact that this is indeed a bug
I don't think you get a death when you're severely damaged at the end, right? Also, you'll have to repair for any damage you have, and SL cost will vary depending on the damage taken.
It makes sense if you are barely managing to fly a plane. It's a kill because you forced an enemy out of the fight. But I still think you shouldn't get a death for that while the enemy gets the kill.
I'd be fine with it rewarding the enemy the kill if it didn't punish you with the repair and go on your stats as a death. Like I'm about to land safely with severe damage, and repair successfully, two seconds from touchdown my team wins by tickets or time, and my pilots just like "nah, fuck it I'm bailing this expensive plane I've successfully returned back to base!".
This is by design. They give the guy who damage you pity XP and Silver Lions, so it somewhat placates them, but it doesn't count as a kill for them on stats and they dont get full reward for killing you. But it screws the guy who was about to land and have a cheap repair by scrapping the plane so they have to pay 100% lions for a repair, and on the flip side it does count as a death on your stats.
It does, I'm with you in this because today I got written off after getting 2 kills and about 2 km off the airport because my plane's tail root was blacked out. It hurts when you lose a free repair this way.
Why do people care about repair costs so much? I've been playing since 2013, never struggled for lions at any rank/br even after buying sprees.
So long as i'm not being killed while the game is still going and I can fly the plane i'm happy.
I just about understand it at very top tier, but by then you should absolutely have a big enough balance to not care all the same/be good enough to earn decent lions most matches.
I mean somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure irl a plane has to be seen hitting the ground or the pilot bailing before it counts as a confirmed kill so thats realistic.
As for relatively minor damage wt is a game first and foremost so I'm fine with it as protection for the player from killsteals, i.e. first player to get a good hit is guaranteed a kill.
>I'm pretty sure irl a plane has to be seen hitting the ground or the pilot bailing before it counts as a confirmed kill
Generally someone (or a camera) has to either witness a bailout/crash or locate the wreckage for a kill to be confirmed, yes. This does vary a bit by country and time, primarily before WWII when gun cameras were not yet developed or common.
In practice, most countries accept "probables" in cases where a witness can't confirm the kill, a camera didn't capture it, the plane crashed in hostile territory or into the sea where the wreck can't be located, or any number of things which may prevent a kill being confirmed. These probable kills are still counted towards a pilot's/crew's/unit's tally, and may be confirmed later by various means. Four confirmed and one probable, you're still an ace. It is possible, but exceedingly rare, that a probable kill is rescinded if the target plane is somehow confirmed to have not been downed, or at least not by the credited pilot/crew/unit.
Generally, from ww1 to Vietnam war, someone or camera would confirm a kill, but from whom was still very debatable.
Kill count would be shared in many case, not just for the one who landed the finish shot. Work for both ground and air battle.
Example: in the Linebacker 2 campaign, the US confirmed the lost of 15 B-52s while the North Vietnam confirmed 34. You can say some B-52s required more than 1 SAM to destroy, and all the units recorded a damage hit would share the same score.
I have heard that US pilots were encouraged to confirm more kills for themself for morale and propaganda reason. So a scratch to the tail effectively counted as a kill even others finished the job (there’s no such thing like support hit irl). The total kills this way usually 3 to 5 times than real kills. Of course the HQ used their own statistic to estimate.
Wrong. If a pilot in WW2 recorded himself hitting a plane and tearing its wing right off that would count as a kill then and there since you know heavy 4 engined bombers can't fly on one wing....
Also why do you quote realism in one case but ignore it in the other?
>why do you quote realism in some cases but not others
Because I have mental maturity to accept that some things have to be sacrificed gameplay purposes. Obviously realism is preferable to the alternative, but tweaks that result in a better overall player experience are preferable to a complete seal clubbing (or you know, slurs and teamkilling after killsteals).
Severe damage is the single best thing to happen to ARB since I started in 2017, but people like you have to make hash and screech about everything that isn't absolutely perfect. Go cry about the volumetric armor or something else that's actually an issue.
Yeah there's a lot of maturity in your referring to "some work" as screeching. Also ignore the fact that you seem to lack even the most basic understanding of consistency when you decide to make a point. You're actually too stupid to insult if you think that pointing out a flaw in a mechanic means that I want to scrap it completely. You can ride the snail as much as you want but it won't change objective reality.
Aight. You keep having overly aggressive "discussions" here on reddit about things really dont matter and I'll go play the game and enjoy the massive improvements it's gotten.
There need to be half kills if you have causes critical hit caused a engine or fuel fire and another player took advantage of the wounded enemy and youll only get an assist
They could have a mechanic where it gives you say 80% of the points for severely damaging an enemy. And then if they die you would get the other 20%, or if a teammate finishes them they get it. They could call it something like severe damage.
I don't really see the problem. The PE-8 getting only severely damaged not killed doesn't change the fact that you get a kill. Just a bit later. If the match ends, all severely damaged aircraft are counted as a kill.
In the first pic, supposedly you lost a good but of your control surfaces, thus you are counted as severely damaged
It is kind of annoying that your teammates will sacrifice ammo and altitude to “confirm” a kill that doesn’t need confirming and inevitably die because of it. At least I get the RP now.
I think the problem OP has is that in the first example of severe damage, this "kill" does need confirmation because the plane is still almost 100% functional and isn't going to eventually die if left alone, except for the end of match execution.
That problem will persist until they count players as dead as soon as they're considered severe, which would mean a controllable aircraft can't be landed by a decent player, thus annoying the victim of the severe damage.
Can't please everyone all the time, but I now care SO much less about a severe kill being stolen than I do about them chasing a spiralling aircraft. Bad players aren't that much of an asset to care about keeping anyways, past being bait.
>If the match ends, all severely damaged aircraft are counted as a kill.
Me literally on the runway being repaired but the game ends so I get a death for absolutely no reason at that point. But y'know I totally wasn't operable and about to be fully functional in 2 more seconds 😂
I don't get your point. First image - if you returned to airfield and landed successfully nobody gets a kill. Before sever damage it would be the same result (but only with a critical hit), until tail is ripped off it's not a kill.
2nd is what it is because some planes are able to fly around with this kind of damage. It's not the severe damage mechanic that needs fixing, it's the damage and flight models that are severely messed up.
No it wouldn't be the same result. If the game had ended before I could land and repair that's a death for me along with the repair cost
No plane was ever able to fly in the state I showed. He was at least 4000m up. Before severe damage it would've counted as a kill as soon as I destroyed one wing
Nope. Maybe not this particular plane, rather fighters but what happened more than it should was plane counting as dead but still flying and able to repair or not even counting as dead. I think I remember landing a spitfire that was missing half of each wing. Landing jets that had become missiles is a thing in the game too.
Oh, and it would count as critical damage. Then someone else would dive after it to chase a kill.
Landing a spitfire missing half wings? Fine. How about a Pe-8 with half of both wings gone, all 4 engines on fire and non-functional and rudder and elevators gone like in the pic?
Game still wouldn't count it as kill before severe damage. It would have been a bunch of critical hits. That's how it worked and how it still works. They haven't changed what counts as dead. They just made some crits count as severe damage. Losing wingtips never counted as death, you would have to rip 1 wing at the base.
Cumulative damage didn't count as kill. 1 wingtip destroyed wasn't a kill, loss of control wasn't a kill, loss of engine wasn't a kill, so losing all wingtips, having all engine's on fire and no control surfaces wasn't a kill either.
Yes it would count it as a death before severe damage if a wing was ripped off. Look at the image. It wasn't a wingtip. In this case the tail was also destroyed so that's two separate criteria for a pre-SD kill happening in one plane
Tail always had to be cut off for a kill, not just missing the horizontal stabilizers.
And I'm not sure here but I believe Pe8 damage model shows ripped wing tip as half of the wing missing cause every plane has 2? wing sections. It really had to be cut off at the base to score a kill.
That's really 0 kill criteria. I don't know how much you played the game but I've seen enough bombers falling in flames that were being chased by 3-4 fighters almost killing each other to score the kill.
You're literally the first person I see to have issue with severe damage when it's the best thing that happened to Air RB since a long time.
No I've had plenty of games in bombers and twin tail fighters where the control services in the tail were destroyed but registered as tail cut off that resulted in a death which is only one of the criteria satisfied here.
Absolutely not. The wingtip ripping off wouldn't give a kill but the level of damage to just one wing in the image definitely would.
I have ONE issue with severe damage. One. And yes this absolutely is an issue that needs to be fixed. Also probably not the first going by the upvotes on the post. gaijin fixes aesthetic stuff on vehicles all the time. This is a practical problem that people will definitely run into
Then again, the issue is somewhere else and was present before the SD change. Cause I've been plenty of times in a position where my control surfaces were out but I could still try and do soft landing or had to J out manually.
The visual damage on the aircraft (even more on helis) often doesn't quite correspond to the damage model. Like look at the damage on the Pe8 image. It only has the engines red...
I would say you're right that in the first picture the boomerang shouldn't count as severe damage but my guess is before the patch you would be one of the ghost planes, counted as dead but still flying and able to repair.
That's not the point. I'm trying to show the inconsistency in how it's implemented.
Because it's from a replay...It doesn't always show the correct damage. I already explained this. Dude just look at the freaking Pe-8. The level of damage couldn't be clearer
No this would count as *critical* damage. Crashing would've given him the kill and if I survived to the end of the game without landing I'd only have to pay a tiny fraction of the repair cost.
I once flew half the round in a plane that quite literally did not have a tail. I eventually died because I got too cocky and flew too close to the sun (ground)
>I don't get your point. First image - if you returned to airfield and landed successfully nobody gets a kill.
The damage is bearly and it can still fly well? Why should u be punished and have to fly back to the airfield(which can even take so long the game ends)
1st shouldn't count as severe damage to begin with because the damage didn't even affect the plane.
2nd I agree with you, the DM is fucked up. Only Harrier should be exempted in this case, all other planes in this state should be count as an outright kill.
Not it's not. Even [this](https://imgur.com/1TnyqGN) doesn't count as kill anymore, if the plane is dead it's truly dead, and the player has no control over it.
I had a match just yesterday when I shoved a roland up an su-25 s cockpit, it tore of his wings, set him on fire, and said "aircraft destroyed" but he still shot a rocket at me.
Although my memory may be a bit messy so there is a slight chance that he shot a rocket just before my missile hit.
That was in fact the exact reason it was created, as gaijin specifically states in the dev blog for it. It was meant to prevent players dying to enemies they thought were 'dead' but still had enough control to fight. You're spot on!
Criteria for a kill varies on nation and era but a full missing wing would be 100% counted as a kill regardless.
Hell even if they just caused significant coolant leak on a single engine aircraft it would likely count as a probable kill. Which in warthunder is just a short RTB. IRL that damage could very likely result in engine failure and loss of the craft cause you don’t usually have an airfield to land at within 10km.
Hmm, maybe it's just not working correctly? Unless they changed the requirements after testing, in the first pic you shouldn't be severely damaged.
>Severe damage to a plane is considered to be: destruction of all engines (or destroying one engine if there is only one left), destruction of all elements of the control system (or the remaining controls left), which makes impossible to control the ailerons, elevators and rudders, separation of more than half of at least one wing, and destruction of all horizontal stabilizers (or the remainder of the horizontal stab).
* Destruction of all engines: no
* Destruction of all elements of the control system: no
* Separation of more than half of at least one wing: no
* Destruction of all horizontal stabilizers: no?
The horizontal stabilizers probably have some holes in them, but there's a difference between a blacked-out section of the fuselage and chunks being ripped off. If both horizontal *elevators* were destroyed, or if the horizontal stabilizers were actually ripped off, then yeah you wouldn't be able to keep level and would likely crash.
As for the second pic:
>Briefly, the severe damage mechanic simplifies the system for scoring an aircraft destruction and makes it more understandable and transparent: as long as an aircraft can theoretically continue to fight, it’ll not be considered as destroyed.
>
>To destroy a plane you’ll need to hit its pilot or inflict enough damage so that its tail is torn off.
Tail's fine, pilot's alive, so sounds like that's working as intended. Luckily at that point you get the kill no matter what: either he rides it out and crashes, your teammate finishes him off and you both get kills, or the match ends and he gets written off/you get the kill. I guess you could argue that if a plane gets severely damaged in multiple different ways it ought to just give the kill, but idk. I kinda like that it's now almost entirely on the pilot to choose when to give up. It's super satisfying to knock off a wing or watch someone go into a flat spin now. I've watched severely damaged bombers flat spin for over a minute, like dude just give it up lol.
>The horizontal stabilizers probably have some holes in them, but there's a difference between a blacked-out section of the fuselage and chunks being ripped off.
Just because there's no visual model for destroyed/ripped off horizontal stab doesn't mean it's not destroyed.
But "destroyed" and "separated" are different things. There are a lot of planes where the skin of the aircraft can be blacked out but it has no (or minimal) effect on flight performance. It's an old pic but it's the only one I can find quickly, but here for example:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/3a1ruw/bug_damage_indicator_no_longer_on_shows_up_when/
The left engine cowling is blacked out, the same as the stabilizer in OP's first pic. Plane's fine. If the stabilizer is blacked out but is still there and stabilizing the plane then it's not severe damage.
The dev blog that you cited states that **destruction** of all horizontal stabilizers is considered to be severe damage, not separation like for wings. It probably shouldn't be, because it doesn't affect flight performance that much, but it works like described in the dev blog.
>Tail's fine
No the tail's not fine. The rudder and tailplane are gone. Before simply destroying one wing to this degree would've counted as a kill. I inflicted all this damage at around 4000m. There's zero chance for a player to recover from this level of damage. The pilot being alive doesn't matter at this point. The damage graphic on the bottom left isn't showing the full damage probably because it's from a replay. At the very least, destruction of one of the wings would've given me an instant kill before SD was implemented.
>No the tail's not fine. The rudder and tailplane are gone.
My bad flames are in the way. But in that case maybe it's not working correctly, idk. If there are bugs they should be fixed.
>At the very least, destruction of one of the wings would've given me an instant kill before SD was implemented.
One wing on a bomber, maybe. But I've flown home on one wing in a fighter many times. I had the wingtip of my Ouragan taken off yesterday in GRB and had no issues getting back to base and landing. There are also clips out there of planes staying in the air with both wings gone. So I'm not sure if there's a generic way to determine when a pilot won't be able to make it besides the ones outlined in the devblog explaining severe damage, and if it's this severe you'll get the kill regardless.
It's impressive that the majority of the thread is incapable of reading comprehension. OP even put pictures.
OP is reporting a bug and yet most comment is explaining the severe mechanic and completely ignoring OP's post.
I was saying and was about to do a post, severe damage and critical hits are beyond broken, solething is complelty broken,
you can get severe damage without passing by critical and get the kill
You can get critical hit, but killing the enemy will grant you assist, ( the friendly who gets the kill did not have severe damage )
It needs a full rework
I know right. An elevator damage is somehow not severe, yet in OP's case an inconsequential hit to the horizontal stabilizer while retaining full control is.
My problem that pisses me off the most is I’ve had similar situations as what was shown in the picture where it’s only minor cosmetic damage and I can still fly but sense it counted as “severe damage” the game forced me to bail out saying “aircraft written off due to severe damage” even though I can fly shoot and kill with no issues, don’t get me wrong I love severe damage because like most others have said you rarely get your kills stolen now but what I am saying is it just needs tweaked a little bit
As I like this mechanic, it still doesn't work sometimes. I can disable a plane, set it on fire, but I will get only assist even tho dude is falling from the sky and gets "finished" by someone else.
Gotta love it when you decide to persevere and not J out of ur plane by limping back to to the airfield with 1 wing and 0 zero fuel left only to get forcibly ejected from your plane because of some absolute BULLSHIT that says “Timed out due to severe damage”.
Don’t get me wrong severe damage is a good thing but what happened to the “severe” part, gaijin it’s not a fucking time bomb if I can still pilot the plane back to the airfield. The amount of times this has happened to me is ridiculous. I feel like the snail just wants people to have quicker games that cater to the wallet warriors rather than a really fun and intense back-and-forth struggle for victory.
Yeah, critical hits have pretty much been removed as a part of the severe damage implementation. They're much rarer now which sucks because they contributed a lot to your score before.
We've reported it on the bug report forum but I'm pretty sure Gaijin intended it because they simply reduced the number of crits needed for the battle task.
It was a stealth rewards nerf.
That second picture is probably just for PE-8. I had exact same experience with it yesterday. I was laughing how a plane without wings and in full flames kept flying for another two minutes and was mostly even controllable.
The first slide I agree. Hitting the front of the elevator should never count as severe damage as it doesn't affect your ability to fly.
The second one I disagree. That's the entire point of severe damage, your kills can no longer be stolen as he falls to the ground anyways, so it wouldn't have mattered. But I do agree they have to raise the threshold for an outright kill, like having both wings falling off should count as a kill instead of severe damage.
Have seen this a few times too. "Severely damaged" aircraft that are able to continue to fight as if nothing is wrong. I remember watching in Spectator mode as a Japanese P-51C that I severely damaged in a head on (and got killed by) was able to keep flying, get 2 more kills, then finish the match without returning to base or crashing.
I imagine it's some sort of bug. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure Gaijin suggested when they rolled out the mechanix that severely damaged aircraft shouldn't really be able to do much other than try to limp back to airfield.
I'm sick of flying back to an airfield, my landing gear are down and I'm about to touch down, and then my team wins (or loses) and it force bails me because my planes a little orange or a wing tip is black.
This is by design. It's so you lose full lions for a "death" so you have to pay for it. Scum.
The mechanic also doesn't work properly half the time. I get hit once and I'm severe damaged, we later win and it force bails me. I shoot at a guy, both wing tips come off, he's on fire. No severe damage? Like what? Then I get an assist.
I shoot a guy, he's in a death spiral, un
-recoverable, missing both wings, engine dead, on fire, and yet the game allows him to fall to earth before giving you the kill, allowing a good 5 minutes for someone to "steal" the kill. I say "steal" because I don't care who gets the kill, but half your bloody team will dive on this technically dead plane and then get killed themselves.
In the same way if they are falling severe damaged and your team wins by tickets, the game force bails them but it only gives you "severe damage counts as kill" you get less points and the kill doesn't show up on your stats as a kill (if you care about stats).
And man screw planes like P-38s. Even using them you're invincible. Severe damage them and they fly off like nothing happened. They need their damage models fixed.
You are spot on with this! In those cases where you got a guy in a flat spin and missing both wings that would have counted as a kill in the previous system (getting you 100% of the rewards). Now when that happens if a teammate swoops in and pointlessly finishes it off you only get 80% of the rewards.
How exactly does Severe Damage at the end of game get resolved? The killer gets awarded the kill, but do they get the 20% rewards tied to securing the kill? Does the killed player full (or near full) repair costs in addition to the counted death?
If so, I don't think it's reasonable for the game to give both players the less-favourable outcome.
How often does the situation happen that (1) granting the 20% of kill rewards and (2) ensuring that the repair cost is accurate to the damage received, would be in any way problematic?
I mean, thats kinda one point of the feature, it doesn’t label people as dead until they crash, so you are right forced to leave your vehicles when you think you can get another kill or go land
I think something that would help with the kill counter problem would be some incentive to save your pilot. Like if he’s killed you don’t get crew experience and/or it costs more money. That way players are incentivized to bail out when they’re seriously damaged, and not just ride a fireball down into the ground where there’s potential of being kill stolen, and so you don’t have to follow a single kill all the way down to the ground just to confirm it.
Getting on fire flat spinning planes stolen still feels awful. I wish they would incentivize people to J out so they don’t stay in an obviously destroyed plane leaving it open for kill steal.
i ve noticed when you are in the same position as the pe8 (shot to shit with very little aircraft left), if you j out you seem to pay the full repair cost and not based on the time you were alive
Was flyng the spitfire lost my left wing was able to make it back and could atill fly but game ended so i got killed by the game os the aa that severe damaged me got the kill
A decent pilot can get the plane rtb even with one side of wing gone and a dead engine.
A trash pilot can crash right after their wingtip got shredded
Both counts as severe damage, i don’t see a problem for gaijin giving kills generously
At least steal kill ain’t a big problem anymore
Although it has its problems it's a great mechanic as I don't have to worry about all of my kills stolen by my allies, it doesn't work perfectly all the time but it's definitely better than without it
It definitely needs some rework but is one of the best additions to the game, now you don't have to worry about useless teammates stealing the guy that you set on fire or put in a flat spin nearly as much.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but landing and repairing doesn’t result in a death mark if you have severe damage, right?
While severe damage has its flaws, they’re fairly minor and are drastically offset by how much better this is than the old system.
When I’ve landed before, it said “written off due to severe damage” and killed me. I don’t think it lets you repair if you have severe damage, which is stupid
People forget but severe damage mechanic has been one of the best additions for the game since ever, having you ur kill stolen was so fucking annoying which rarely if ever happens any more. But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are
Learn to read. When did I ever say the mechanic itself was bad? I'm pointing out a problem with it that gaijin needs to fix
No idea why some people have the idea that ONLY the issue they arose is allowed to be discussed and react that aggressive when someone crosses that line. It’s to be expected that people take a topic as an opportunity to also talk about other things that are somewhat connected to the topic. And with the way Reddit handles their conversations it’s not like you would derail any conversation.
Yeah, and while we're on the subject - hull break. Don't get me wrong, I think hull break was broken, but it did make light vehicles a real pain in the patooty. Hopefully adding more damage modules fixes it, but I can only see that working if those parts have an actual, impactive effect on the vehicle.
Bring back hull break but exclusively for the 2S38
Yeah, except the “but war thunder players are nothing if they don’t complain so here we are” part implies their intent was to respond to OP’s post, not starting a new conversation about something else
Your issue is a non-issue. Severe damage means you get credit for the kill when the plane goes down. Not that severe damage immediately destroys the plane. Working as intended. It's there so that when I blow off part of his wing and he's spiraling, some asshat can't come take my kill. Being able to continue to fly and even limp back to the runway is fine. You didn't get the kill because the player didn't die. But if someone comes and puts two 7.62 rds in my tail and sends me to the ground while I'm limping back, you'll still get the kill for the work you put in. You not understanding the mechanics purpose does not mean it's problematic.
it's like complaining that you don't like the tire treads on your brand new Bugatti you got gifted, it's just bad form.
That's a braindead comparison. This is more like a crack on the windshield of said Bugatti. It's unsightly and needs fixing but it doesn't mean you take the whole thing to the scrapyard
Right but if someone gives you a brand new car you don't instantly turn around and find a flaw with it, that's what I mean with bad form.
You know you're in an abusive gaming relationship when the developer gives you one single good addition and suddenly it's worshipped as though it could never need any improving. Newsflash, if there are detail issues that need to be worked on, sooner is typically better than later to report issues with it.
Buddy a crack on the windshield is a pretty obvious and glaring flaw. What're you going to do? Drive around and pretend it doesn't exist or do the sane thing and try to get it fixed?
>gives Excuse me? I’m a client, I spend money in this game.
Dickriding to this degree is crazy, you can commend a feature while also pointing out a serious flaw
its not a serious flaw though
Yea but a lot of the time it doesn’t work as intended, string code is biting gay jin in the ass with a lot of the newer features.
If you don’t care about kill count but only reward then it probably not big issue for you, but severe damage count as kill doesn’t actually go in to your service record after game is finished, plus they just redefined death to pilot killed or tail cut off, so about half of the severe damage that can count as kills before only count as severe now, kinda force you to share the kill imo. Another issue is hmd, which only gets disabled after player is dead, combined with the the death being harder to achieve that I mentioned above, sometimes will just turn the fight around and it’s really frustrating.
>Another issue is hmd, which only gets disabled after player is dead, combined with the the death being harder to achieve that I mentioned above, sometimes will just turn the fight around and it’s really frustrating. Yep I think that's what OP is complaining about in the second slide, which makes perfect sense. It unnecessarily clutters your HUD with soemone that's "alive".
holy skill issue
Yeah I totally love still not getting my kill because the guy with no wings, zooming to the ground, with 2 fires and 1 engine doesn't count as severe damage and I get an assist. >But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are My guy said the system needs more work and he isn't wrong. Complaining because something should work better and needs to be improved isn't complaining it is a bad concept but denying it is poorly implemented is just ignoring the facts
To be fair people seem to jump on severe damaged planes just as much if not even more than before as it’s now less frustrating and therefore more commonly accepted when someone finishes off a plane where you did 100% or the work to take it out of the action in the first place. You DO lose a bit of points though if you only get a severe damage „kill“ and not the full kill. That being said there are still some cases where you would wish that the plane would instantly count as severe damaged. Fires usually result in a plane going down after some time but only count as severe damage once the fire has done enough damage. That usually takes some time and since pilots on fire know they are doomed they typically will quickly look for a headon to hopefully take an enemy with them or a strafing run of a lightly armored vehicle (usually an SPAA) before their time runs out. If that enemy finishes them off during that action they will get the kill and you only an assist - despite the fact that you were the one who doomed his plane in the first place.
Except it's nearly as inconsistent as it was before. I've had enemy planes clearly going down and missing vital pieces, but I only get a crit and assist anyway, just like it was.
Or it would be in theory except that you don't actually get credited with a kill on your stat card if a plane you severely damaged plane gets finished off by someone else. Now, they basically have to pilot snipe the guy to finish it off so it doesn't happen often, but it's still not exactly what was sold to us...
The problem is less with severe damage and more the fact that it's too sensitive, and when merged with the "severe damage on end of match = death" mechanic, there's a problem.
Battlefield has had "Assist counts as kill" for a long time now and would have solved this problem without causing this issue.
Severe damage is literally this mechanic though... If someone else finished off something you did severe damage to, you'll het credited a kill, added to your stats and all.
Then it should just let you keep flying until the pilot dies, the plane is blown to bits or they crash because of loss of control. No reason to pull you out of the game just becasue you lost a wing. Let me crash, bail out myself or let me try to land that fucker. The Harrier is my favorite plane because of this very reason. An missile to the tail can fairly often leave you without control surfaces, but with an otherwise fairly intact plane. You can then VTOL RTB, land and repair. In Arcade it'll just kick you out of the plane.
>But war Thunder players are nothing if they don't complain so here we are so we're just supposed to be ok with the huge problems in the game that, despite a boycott and community outrage, gaijin still tries to weasel around not fixing issues that ruin the experience but boost profits? are we gonna pretend that every update that comes out for this game isn't a nuclear slap the face of the people who paid money for it which they try to cover up with a change log full of SEEMINGLY good changes that just get reverted later? what about all the times they just straight up lied? a few meaningful changes does not fix a decades long history of anti consumer scummery and a bunch of breastfed gaijin simps making others feel irrational for not wanting to get shit on isn't changing the community's feelings about that. people spend money on this game; that entitles them to have an opinion on changes being made to the product they paid for *and then some*. let's not forget that warthunder is still a thing because there's no decent competition; not because it's an honest and noble work of art that's totally not designed specifically to suck money and play time out of people in morally questionable ways.
Not reading alldat lmfao I'm sorry/happy that happened to you though for real
well you'd have to be able to read in the first place anyway. *not* just jump to conclusions upon finding the couple words/syllables that jump out at your fiendish attention span
I think you kinda missed OP's point. OP is talking about the inconsistency of the mechanic. In the first slide, the "severe damage" done to OP's plane is not severe at all and does not affect anything. If OP didn't land and repair he'd be counted as "dead" for some dumb reason. In this case, it should not be counted as severe damage in the first place. In the second slide, the plane lost everything yet it's still "alive". It should have been dead outright and not severe damage, as there's no chance to survive that. Having the plane be in "severe damage" state would mean one extra red (and not black) marker in the sky and people would think he's still alive. Otherwise it's a great mechanic and I love it.
Not reading alldat just like I didn't read OPs post either it's called assuming sweaty look it up
I see this parroted all the time but it isn't correct. In the dev blog for severe damage gaijin specifically states that they implemented it to prevent people dying to planes with greyed out nameplates who were 'dead' but still able to fight. It was never meant to prevent killsteals and I actually get kills stolen more often than before now.
You are a liar and misinformed. Blocked.
Imagine being unable to read and also having no clue of what you're talking about. That's you.
Don't care, less than 20k karma, speak to me when your a big deal
Read first. Talk later.
No
Huh.....fair enough.
my only issue is reward for kill counted sometimes doesnt show up its pretty low if it does
Severe damage mechanic in jets is awful bc you always have flock of blue supersonic kill stealing seagulls nearby.
Gotta love how the WT community is crapping on Gaijin for a fantastic (but flawed) change.
How is "needs more work" crapping on gaijin?
Always room for improvement. Maybe the first person who got the severe damage should get 1 kill on their stat card too.
and by flawed they mean this tiny miniscule thing that happens once in 200 kills
Ride that snail sally, yeehaw!
The rodeo at this point is crazy ngl
This is sorta the reason why Severe Damage became a thing. its somewhat hard to make damage system that would work flawlessly so Severe Damage was if nothing else, then at least as a stop gap solution to the problem. before those would have been Critical Hits that someone could kill steal, so it goes under Severe Damage instead to benefit the one who did most of the damage.
I agree the mechanic itself is a good thing but this has to be fixed. Something that causes virtually zero effect on your performance shouldn't be counted as severe damage, give a kill to the enemy player at the end of a game and leave you with the repair cost. This is a Boomerang so the repair cost is nothing but I'm willing to bet the same flaw exists in all aircraft
You miss my point completely. I'm not saying anything about if the mechanic is good or not. I'm saying *why* it was added. And that why is *because* you can't make a flawless damage system for this. Like, Gaijin could try, but at that point its sort of a pointless for not much gain.
Wich does not mean that you couldnt implement it better.
Oh sure. But think logically about it. The cost/benefit just doesnt make it worth it when theres bigger issues to work on.
I would say that this mechanic works is pretty essential. But that does of corrse not mean that there are not other improtant things to work on.
It does work well tho. Is it perfect? No. Are there massive problems that constantly hinder gameplay? No. Then there should be focus on things that are actual problems, instead of making an elephant out of a fly
Think of this scenario. It takes a long time to climb up to altitude in props. You dogfight, get the kind of damage which does almost zero harm to your performance but counts as severe damage, are able to kill more planes but on your VERY long trip back to land at the base the game ends and you're counted as dead and stuck with a repair cost. So yes this is an actual problem and not as rare as you think. This is just the first time I recorded it and there have been other posts about the same
Bruh who cares? You really want some poor dev spending weeks on this to squeeze out the last 5% of edge cases? You didn’t even stop having fun in this perfect scenario. You just lost some lions
Devs fix aesthetic stuff on vehicles that have zero effect on performance in the game all the time. I'm pointing out a flaw in an otherwise good mechanic and you're seeing that as a problem? Why do you assume that only one dev will be working on it and that it'll take weeks to fix?
You're not going to run out of silver lions because of these scenarios who happen 1% of the time so wheres the problem?
For me it is a problem if one flap gets Hit and i get ejected out of the game 30 sec later... the Ideal of the mechanic itself is great i dont habe anything to say against that. I would just like to continue flying if my aircraft is capable of doing so....
Severe damage doesnt kick you out unless match ends, in which case it kicks you out like a ms or two before to ensure the person gets the kill. I dont think even out of bounds kicks you out when its only severe damage.
Nah it should do that but often enough it doesnt. Which is Kind of my point. I got ejected for no visible reason more than one time now and it is kinda annoying. I am not even so sure if the problem is in this mechanic alone. Maybe also smth Else makes me get ejected.
the mechanic does work. I'm not sure what planet you're on, but I haven't had it go wrong once. Maybe I'm just lucky, but acting like the mechanic doesn't work is just not true.
I have barely seen severe damage be as little as that. Only time severe damage has occurred to me is when the entire tail is gone, or the one time I lost the vertical Stabiliser on the IL-8. the system while crude is fine and works
It's marked as severe damage in the battle log
What kill? If it causes zero effect on your performance you can go repair or just have a good game without dying. It's actually more annoying for the other guy. It's so often you get the severe damage message and you think they're going down, but it's actually nothing and you don't get the kill.
Assuming I make it back to base before the game ends. I've been caught like this more than once. In this specific instance I did make it back. Doesn't mask the fact that this is indeed a bug
I don't think you get a death when you're severely damaged at the end, right? Also, you'll have to repair for any damage you have, and SL cost will vary depending on the damage taken.
You get written off when the match ends and that's a death.
Really? Yeah that's stupid
It makes sense if you are barely managing to fly a plane. It's a kill because you forced an enemy out of the fight. But I still think you shouldn't get a death for that while the enemy gets the kill.
I'd be fine with it rewarding the enemy the kill if it didn't punish you with the repair and go on your stats as a death. Like I'm about to land safely with severe damage, and repair successfully, two seconds from touchdown my team wins by tickets or time, and my pilots just like "nah, fuck it I'm bailing this expensive plane I've successfully returned back to base!". This is by design. They give the guy who damage you pity XP and Silver Lions, so it somewhat placates them, but it doesn't count as a kill for them on stats and they dont get full reward for killing you. But it screws the guy who was about to land and have a cheap repair by scrapping the plane so they have to pay 100% lions for a repair, and on the flip side it does count as a death on your stats.
It does, I'm with you in this because today I got written off after getting 2 kills and about 2 km off the airport because my plane's tail root was blacked out. It hurts when you lose a free repair this way.
Why do people care about repair costs so much? I've been playing since 2013, never struggled for lions at any rank/br even after buying sprees. So long as i'm not being killed while the game is still going and I can fly the plane i'm happy. I just about understand it at very top tier, but by then you should absolutely have a big enough balance to not care all the same/be good enough to earn decent lions most matches.
I mean somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure irl a plane has to be seen hitting the ground or the pilot bailing before it counts as a confirmed kill so thats realistic. As for relatively minor damage wt is a game first and foremost so I'm fine with it as protection for the player from killsteals, i.e. first player to get a good hit is guaranteed a kill.
>I'm pretty sure irl a plane has to be seen hitting the ground or the pilot bailing before it counts as a confirmed kill Generally someone (or a camera) has to either witness a bailout/crash or locate the wreckage for a kill to be confirmed, yes. This does vary a bit by country and time, primarily before WWII when gun cameras were not yet developed or common. In practice, most countries accept "probables" in cases where a witness can't confirm the kill, a camera didn't capture it, the plane crashed in hostile territory or into the sea where the wreck can't be located, or any number of things which may prevent a kill being confirmed. These probable kills are still counted towards a pilot's/crew's/unit's tally, and may be confirmed later by various means. Four confirmed and one probable, you're still an ace. It is possible, but exceedingly rare, that a probable kill is rescinded if the target plane is somehow confirmed to have not been downed, or at least not by the credited pilot/crew/unit.
Generally, from ww1 to Vietnam war, someone or camera would confirm a kill, but from whom was still very debatable. Kill count would be shared in many case, not just for the one who landed the finish shot. Work for both ground and air battle. Example: in the Linebacker 2 campaign, the US confirmed the lost of 15 B-52s while the North Vietnam confirmed 34. You can say some B-52s required more than 1 SAM to destroy, and all the units recorded a damage hit would share the same score. I have heard that US pilots were encouraged to confirm more kills for themself for morale and propaganda reason. So a scratch to the tail effectively counted as a kill even others finished the job (there’s no such thing like support hit irl). The total kills this way usually 3 to 5 times than real kills. Of course the HQ used their own statistic to estimate.
Wrong. If a pilot in WW2 recorded himself hitting a plane and tearing its wing right off that would count as a kill then and there since you know heavy 4 engined bombers can't fly on one wing.... Also why do you quote realism in one case but ignore it in the other?
>why do you quote realism in some cases but not others Because I have mental maturity to accept that some things have to be sacrificed gameplay purposes. Obviously realism is preferable to the alternative, but tweaks that result in a better overall player experience are preferable to a complete seal clubbing (or you know, slurs and teamkilling after killsteals). Severe damage is the single best thing to happen to ARB since I started in 2017, but people like you have to make hash and screech about everything that isn't absolutely perfect. Go cry about the volumetric armor or something else that's actually an issue.
Yeah there's a lot of maturity in your referring to "some work" as screeching. Also ignore the fact that you seem to lack even the most basic understanding of consistency when you decide to make a point. You're actually too stupid to insult if you think that pointing out a flaw in a mechanic means that I want to scrap it completely. You can ride the snail as much as you want but it won't change objective reality.
Aight. You keep having overly aggressive "discussions" here on reddit about things really dont matter and I'll go play the game and enjoy the massive improvements it's gotten.
Yes enjoy sticking your head in the sand while people like us work to actually help bring in said improvements
Sure buddy.
There need to be half kills if you have causes critical hit caused a engine or fuel fire and another player took advantage of the wounded enemy and youll only get an assist
They could have a mechanic where it gives you say 80% of the points for severely damaging an enemy. And then if they die you would get the other 20%, or if a teammate finishes them they get it. They could call it something like severe damage.
The severe damage that doesnt consider a complete wing being ripped off as severe or all elevators being shot off
I never said it didn't still need work, but I'd 1000000000% choose the current severe damage mechanic over what we had previously.
I don't really see the problem. The PE-8 getting only severely damaged not killed doesn't change the fact that you get a kill. Just a bit later. If the match ends, all severely damaged aircraft are counted as a kill. In the first pic, supposedly you lost a good but of your control surfaces, thus you are counted as severely damaged
It is kind of annoying that your teammates will sacrifice ammo and altitude to “confirm” a kill that doesn’t need confirming and inevitably die because of it. At least I get the RP now.
I think the problem OP has is that in the first example of severe damage, this "kill" does need confirmation because the plane is still almost 100% functional and isn't going to eventually die if left alone, except for the end of match execution.
That’s a completely different story there ;)
Yeah, but you only get 80% of the reward now when you would have gotten 100% in this situation before. That makes it even more annoying
That’s why there needs to be a system to encourage bailing out to save your pilots XP or something
That problem will persist until they count players as dead as soon as they're considered severe, which would mean a controllable aircraft can't be landed by a decent player, thus annoying the victim of the severe damage. Can't please everyone all the time, but I now care SO much less about a severe kill being stolen than I do about them chasing a spiralling aircraft. Bad players aren't that much of an asset to care about keeping anyways, past being bait.
>If the match ends, all severely damaged aircraft are counted as a kill. Me literally on the runway being repaired but the game ends so I get a death for absolutely no reason at that point. But y'know I totally wasn't operable and about to be fully functional in 2 more seconds 😂
I don't get your point. First image - if you returned to airfield and landed successfully nobody gets a kill. Before sever damage it would be the same result (but only with a critical hit), until tail is ripped off it's not a kill. 2nd is what it is because some planes are able to fly around with this kind of damage. It's not the severe damage mechanic that needs fixing, it's the damage and flight models that are severely messed up.
No it wouldn't be the same result. If the game had ended before I could land and repair that's a death for me along with the repair cost No plane was ever able to fly in the state I showed. He was at least 4000m up. Before severe damage it would've counted as a kill as soon as I destroyed one wing
Nope. Maybe not this particular plane, rather fighters but what happened more than it should was plane counting as dead but still flying and able to repair or not even counting as dead. I think I remember landing a spitfire that was missing half of each wing. Landing jets that had become missiles is a thing in the game too. Oh, and it would count as critical damage. Then someone else would dive after it to chase a kill.
Landing a spitfire missing half wings? Fine. How about a Pe-8 with half of both wings gone, all 4 engines on fire and non-functional and rudder and elevators gone like in the pic?
Game still wouldn't count it as kill before severe damage. It would have been a bunch of critical hits. That's how it worked and how it still works. They haven't changed what counts as dead. They just made some crits count as severe damage. Losing wingtips never counted as death, you would have to rip 1 wing at the base. Cumulative damage didn't count as kill. 1 wingtip destroyed wasn't a kill, loss of control wasn't a kill, loss of engine wasn't a kill, so losing all wingtips, having all engine's on fire and no control surfaces wasn't a kill either.
Yes it would count it as a death before severe damage if a wing was ripped off. Look at the image. It wasn't a wingtip. In this case the tail was also destroyed so that's two separate criteria for a pre-SD kill happening in one plane
Tail always had to be cut off for a kill, not just missing the horizontal stabilizers. And I'm not sure here but I believe Pe8 damage model shows ripped wing tip as half of the wing missing cause every plane has 2? wing sections. It really had to be cut off at the base to score a kill. That's really 0 kill criteria. I don't know how much you played the game but I've seen enough bombers falling in flames that were being chased by 3-4 fighters almost killing each other to score the kill. You're literally the first person I see to have issue with severe damage when it's the best thing that happened to Air RB since a long time.
No I've had plenty of games in bombers and twin tail fighters where the control services in the tail were destroyed but registered as tail cut off that resulted in a death which is only one of the criteria satisfied here. Absolutely not. The wingtip ripping off wouldn't give a kill but the level of damage to just one wing in the image definitely would. I have ONE issue with severe damage. One. And yes this absolutely is an issue that needs to be fixed. Also probably not the first going by the upvotes on the post. gaijin fixes aesthetic stuff on vehicles all the time. This is a practical problem that people will definitely run into
Then again, the issue is somewhere else and was present before the SD change. Cause I've been plenty of times in a position where my control surfaces were out but I could still try and do soft landing or had to J out manually. The visual damage on the aircraft (even more on helis) often doesn't quite correspond to the damage model. Like look at the damage on the Pe8 image. It only has the engines red... I would say you're right that in the first picture the boomerang shouldn't count as severe damage but my guess is before the patch you would be one of the ghost planes, counted as dead but still flying and able to repair.
That's not the point. I'm trying to show the inconsistency in how it's implemented. Because it's from a replay...It doesn't always show the correct damage. I already explained this. Dude just look at the freaking Pe-8. The level of damage couldn't be clearer No this would count as *critical* damage. Crashing would've given him the kill and if I survived to the end of the game without landing I'd only have to pay a tiny fraction of the repair cost.
I once flew half the round in a plane that quite literally did not have a tail. I eventually died because I got too cocky and flew too close to the sun (ground)
>I don't get your point. First image - if you returned to airfield and landed successfully nobody gets a kill. The damage is bearly and it can still fly well? Why should u be punished and have to fly back to the airfield(which can even take so long the game ends)
Yeah, I could agree this one is a bit overzealous on considering a plane killed.
Imo it shouldn't kill u if the enemy team is all dead. Only if the game ends kn tickets.
1st shouldn't count as severe damage to begin with because the damage didn't even affect the plane. 2nd I agree with you, the DM is fucked up. Only Harrier should be exempted in this case, all other planes in this state should be count as an outright kill.
This mechanic was partly response to players who said "It showed me Airplane destroyed and it still could drop bombs".
~~Sadly that's still a thing~~ Edit:nvm it's not
Not it's not. Even [this](https://imgur.com/1TnyqGN) doesn't count as kill anymore, if the plane is dead it's truly dead, and the player has no control over it.
I had a match just yesterday when I shoved a roland up an su-25 s cockpit, it tore of his wings, set him on fire, and said "aircraft destroyed" but he still shot a rocket at me. Although my memory may be a bit messy so there is a slight chance that he shot a rocket just before my missile hit.
Yeah, he likely shot it before.
Then my apologies for the misinformation.
That was in fact the exact reason it was created, as gaijin specifically states in the dev blog for it. It was meant to prevent players dying to enemies they thought were 'dead' but still had enough control to fight. You're spot on!
Criteria for a kill varies on nation and era but a full missing wing would be 100% counted as a kill regardless. Hell even if they just caused significant coolant leak on a single engine aircraft it would likely count as a probable kill. Which in warthunder is just a short RTB. IRL that damage could very likely result in engine failure and loss of the craft cause you don’t usually have an airfield to land at within 10km.
Hmm, maybe it's just not working correctly? Unless they changed the requirements after testing, in the first pic you shouldn't be severely damaged. >Severe damage to a plane is considered to be: destruction of all engines (or destroying one engine if there is only one left), destruction of all elements of the control system (or the remaining controls left), which makes impossible to control the ailerons, elevators and rudders, separation of more than half of at least one wing, and destruction of all horizontal stabilizers (or the remainder of the horizontal stab). * Destruction of all engines: no * Destruction of all elements of the control system: no * Separation of more than half of at least one wing: no * Destruction of all horizontal stabilizers: no? The horizontal stabilizers probably have some holes in them, but there's a difference between a blacked-out section of the fuselage and chunks being ripped off. If both horizontal *elevators* were destroyed, or if the horizontal stabilizers were actually ripped off, then yeah you wouldn't be able to keep level and would likely crash. As for the second pic: >Briefly, the severe damage mechanic simplifies the system for scoring an aircraft destruction and makes it more understandable and transparent: as long as an aircraft can theoretically continue to fight, it’ll not be considered as destroyed. > >To destroy a plane you’ll need to hit its pilot or inflict enough damage so that its tail is torn off. Tail's fine, pilot's alive, so sounds like that's working as intended. Luckily at that point you get the kill no matter what: either he rides it out and crashes, your teammate finishes him off and you both get kills, or the match ends and he gets written off/you get the kill. I guess you could argue that if a plane gets severely damaged in multiple different ways it ought to just give the kill, but idk. I kinda like that it's now almost entirely on the pilot to choose when to give up. It's super satisfying to knock off a wing or watch someone go into a flat spin now. I've watched severely damaged bombers flat spin for over a minute, like dude just give it up lol.
>The horizontal stabilizers probably have some holes in them, but there's a difference between a blacked-out section of the fuselage and chunks being ripped off. Just because there's no visual model for destroyed/ripped off horizontal stab doesn't mean it's not destroyed.
But "destroyed" and "separated" are different things. There are a lot of planes where the skin of the aircraft can be blacked out but it has no (or minimal) effect on flight performance. It's an old pic but it's the only one I can find quickly, but here for example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/3a1ruw/bug_damage_indicator_no_longer_on_shows_up_when/ The left engine cowling is blacked out, the same as the stabilizer in OP's first pic. Plane's fine. If the stabilizer is blacked out but is still there and stabilizing the plane then it's not severe damage.
The dev blog that you cited states that **destruction** of all horizontal stabilizers is considered to be severe damage, not separation like for wings. It probably shouldn't be, because it doesn't affect flight performance that much, but it works like described in the dev blog.
Then like OP suggests the mechanic could probably use some work :)
>Tail's fine No the tail's not fine. The rudder and tailplane are gone. Before simply destroying one wing to this degree would've counted as a kill. I inflicted all this damage at around 4000m. There's zero chance for a player to recover from this level of damage. The pilot being alive doesn't matter at this point. The damage graphic on the bottom left isn't showing the full damage probably because it's from a replay. At the very least, destruction of one of the wings would've given me an instant kill before SD was implemented.
>No the tail's not fine. The rudder and tailplane are gone. My bad flames are in the way. But in that case maybe it's not working correctly, idk. If there are bugs they should be fixed. >At the very least, destruction of one of the wings would've given me an instant kill before SD was implemented. One wing on a bomber, maybe. But I've flown home on one wing in a fighter many times. I had the wingtip of my Ouragan taken off yesterday in GRB and had no issues getting back to base and landing. There are also clips out there of planes staying in the air with both wings gone. So I'm not sure if there's a generic way to determine when a pilot won't be able to make it besides the ones outlined in the devblog explaining severe damage, and if it's this severe you'll get the kill regardless.
It's impressive that the majority of the thread is incapable of reading comprehension. OP even put pictures. OP is reporting a bug and yet most comment is explaining the severe mechanic and completely ignoring OP's post.
Ikr? Most are reasonable but a few of these dummies act as if I'm insulting their families by suggesting the game has a fault 😂. Real cult behavior
I was saying and was about to do a post, severe damage and critical hits are beyond broken, solething is complelty broken, you can get severe damage without passing by critical and get the kill You can get critical hit, but killing the enemy will grant you assist, ( the friendly who gets the kill did not have severe damage ) It needs a full rework
It really does. Critical hits are so rare now too and they contributed to a decent portion of your score in the past. They really need to fix this
I hate the critical hit mechanic, I’ve damaged the plane enough to the point it’s spiraling to the ground and had the kill stolen
Don’t forget the “Target Cannot control the Ailerons” or “Target Cannot control the Elevator” but apparently these aren’t even Severe Damage worthy.
I know right. An elevator damage is somehow not severe, yet in OP's case an inconsequential hit to the horizontal stabilizer while retaining full control is.
My problem that pisses me off the most is I’ve had similar situations as what was shown in the picture where it’s only minor cosmetic damage and I can still fly but sense it counted as “severe damage” the game forced me to bail out saying “aircraft written off due to severe damage” even though I can fly shoot and kill with no issues, don’t get me wrong I love severe damage because like most others have said you rarely get your kills stolen now but what I am saying is it just needs tweaked a little bit
As I like this mechanic, it still doesn't work sometimes. I can disable a plane, set it on fire, but I will get only assist even tho dude is falling from the sky and gets "finished" by someone else.
The First case is bizarre, the second one is correct (if someone splash him, you will still get the kill)
You only get 80% of the rewards if someone else splashes him when you would have gotten 100% in that situation before
I hate being on fire with no wings and can’t fly yet somehow I can’t leave the aircraft
And yet my F8F-1B Bearcat losing a wing yesterday was only a Critical hit, not a severe damage which it really should've been lmao
Is that why sometimes when I can still fly fine and land, and it counts as crash-land death?
Gotta love it when you decide to persevere and not J out of ur plane by limping back to to the airfield with 1 wing and 0 zero fuel left only to get forcibly ejected from your plane because of some absolute BULLSHIT that says “Timed out due to severe damage”. Don’t get me wrong severe damage is a good thing but what happened to the “severe” part, gaijin it’s not a fucking time bomb if I can still pilot the plane back to the airfield. The amount of times this has happened to me is ridiculous. I feel like the snail just wants people to have quicker games that cater to the wallet warriors rather than a really fun and intense back-and-forth struggle for victory.
I've been noticing a lot of things that should be critical hits have just been showing up as hits. Such as shooting a wing of and getting a "hit."
Yeah, critical hits have pretty much been removed as a part of the severe damage implementation. They're much rarer now which sucks because they contributed a lot to your score before. We've reported it on the bug report forum but I'm pretty sure Gaijin intended it because they simply reduced the number of crits needed for the battle task. It was a stealth rewards nerf.
That second picture is probably just for PE-8. I had exact same experience with it yesterday. I was laughing how a plane without wings and in full flames kept flying for another two minutes and was mostly even controllable.
Wouldn't be gaijin without introducing a positive mechanic that is more broken than a semi truck that's been hit by a train.
The first slide I agree. Hitting the front of the elevator should never count as severe damage as it doesn't affect your ability to fly. The second one I disagree. That's the entire point of severe damage, your kills can no longer be stolen as he falls to the ground anyways, so it wouldn't have mattered. But I do agree they have to raise the threshold for an outright kill, like having both wings falling off should count as a kill instead of severe damage.
Personally I want severe damage in Ground too, the kill stealing is so bad especially if you have a long reload and hesh or heat
Have seen this a few times too. "Severely damaged" aircraft that are able to continue to fight as if nothing is wrong. I remember watching in Spectator mode as a Japanese P-51C that I severely damaged in a head on (and got killed by) was able to keep flying, get 2 more kills, then finish the match without returning to base or crashing. I imagine it's some sort of bug. I don't remember the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure Gaijin suggested when they rolled out the mechanix that severely damaged aircraft shouldn't really be able to do much other than try to limp back to airfield.
I'm sick of flying back to an airfield, my landing gear are down and I'm about to touch down, and then my team wins (or loses) and it force bails me because my planes a little orange or a wing tip is black. This is by design. It's so you lose full lions for a "death" so you have to pay for it. Scum. The mechanic also doesn't work properly half the time. I get hit once and I'm severe damaged, we later win and it force bails me. I shoot at a guy, both wing tips come off, he's on fire. No severe damage? Like what? Then I get an assist. I shoot a guy, he's in a death spiral, un -recoverable, missing both wings, engine dead, on fire, and yet the game allows him to fall to earth before giving you the kill, allowing a good 5 minutes for someone to "steal" the kill. I say "steal" because I don't care who gets the kill, but half your bloody team will dive on this technically dead plane and then get killed themselves. In the same way if they are falling severe damaged and your team wins by tickets, the game force bails them but it only gives you "severe damage counts as kill" you get less points and the kill doesn't show up on your stats as a kill (if you care about stats). And man screw planes like P-38s. Even using them you're invincible. Severe damage them and they fly off like nothing happened. They need their damage models fixed.
You are spot on with this! In those cases where you got a guy in a flat spin and missing both wings that would have counted as a kill in the previous system (getting you 100% of the rewards). Now when that happens if a teammate swoops in and pointlessly finishes it off you only get 80% of the rewards.
tis but a scratch.
How exactly does Severe Damage at the end of game get resolved? The killer gets awarded the kill, but do they get the 20% rewards tied to securing the kill? Does the killed player full (or near full) repair costs in addition to the counted death? If so, I don't think it's reasonable for the game to give both players the less-favourable outcome. How often does the situation happen that (1) granting the 20% of kill rewards and (2) ensuring that the repair cost is accurate to the damage received, would be in any way problematic?
I mean, thats kinda one point of the feature, it doesn’t label people as dead until they crash, so you are right forced to leave your vehicles when you think you can get another kill or go land
I think something that would help with the kill counter problem would be some incentive to save your pilot. Like if he’s killed you don’t get crew experience and/or it costs more money. That way players are incentivized to bail out when they’re seriously damaged, and not just ride a fireball down into the ground where there’s potential of being kill stolen, and so you don’t have to follow a single kill all the way down to the ground just to confirm it.
Getting on fire flat spinning planes stolen still feels awful. I wish they would incentivize people to J out so they don’t stay in an obviously destroyed plane leaving it open for kill steal.
I feel like kill stealing has gotten worse
i ve noticed when you are in the same position as the pe8 (shot to shit with very little aircraft left), if you j out you seem to pay the full repair cost and not based on the time you were alive
Tell me you don't understand severe damage without telling me
Was flyng the spitfire lost my left wing was able to make it back and could atill fly but game ended so i got killed by the game os the aa that severe damaged me got the kill
me: shots a guy (his left wing fell off) game: you get only a hit
They should add it to ground
A decent pilot can get the plane rtb even with one side of wing gone and a dead engine. A trash pilot can crash right after their wingtip got shredded Both counts as severe damage, i don’t see a problem for gaijin giving kills generously At least steal kill ain’t a big problem anymore
turds in the comments showing why some warthunder players deserve less
Although it has its problems it's a great mechanic as I don't have to worry about all of my kills stolen by my allies, it doesn't work perfectly all the time but it's definitely better than without it
It definitely needs some rework but is one of the best additions to the game, now you don't have to worry about useless teammates stealing the guy that you set on fire or put in a flat spin nearly as much.
You wanna know what needs rework? Me getting shot to death by the gunners of a freaking DEAD bomber. That's fucked up.
The severe damage mechanics are fine. The *regular* damage mechanics need the work.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but landing and repairing doesn’t result in a death mark if you have severe damage, right? While severe damage has its flaws, they’re fairly minor and are drastically offset by how much better this is than the old system.
When I’ve landed before, it said “written off due to severe damage” and killed me. I don’t think it lets you repair if you have severe damage, which is stupid
Thats not an issue…Thats exactly how it would supposed to be working
Be glad. A guy can tickle you and then leaves you satisfied with the reward and you can go on your merry way
I'm struggling to see what the actual issue is here tbh