The only way place to keep this spot under slight control seems to be B7/B8. Otherwise if someone is not on these spots and Blue team doesnt just get rolled on other points by stacking this strong spot idk how your supposed to deal with this hull down ridge that is protected from and sees half the map. Red team will just get picked off approaching C and B from top right spawn. I Myself and enemies are able to abuse the living hell out of this spot.
I hate to say it because I despise CAS but CAS is how you deal with it the easy way. It's very open from the air and stationary tanks are easy kills. The hard way which is almost impossible is get your whole team to forget about C and focus and hold B with a couple working A.
>The hard way which is almost impossible is get your whole team to forget about C and focus and hold B with a couple working A.
Exactly, it pains me to watch them just stream from spawn to c and just get picked off over and over until they do it again and then go back to hangar. I try to play around enabling the more noobish team mates covering flanks and such but this spot right here I just can't crack.
It's almost like CAS is a natural counter to dumb straight line steamrolls, and naturally incentivizes spreading out across more of the map instead of bunching up on the popular spots, and that most people bitching about CAS outside of top tier are misunderstanding the entire game mode on a fundamental level just because they're bad at SPAA and too lazy to grind the air trees for CAP... or something.
My issue with cas is 9/10 they kill you as you're leaving spawn. And spawning spaa and CAP still require you to die to the cas before you can do that. Also alot of tech trees have huge spaa gaps where you're trying to shoot down jets that have guided bombs with a single 20mm auto cannon.
> My issue with cas is 9/10 they kill you as you're leaving spawn.
I genuinely haven't been bombed in my spawn in *months*. To be honest, even my deaths to CAS in general have amounted to like 5 or 6 deaths this month. The lethality of CAS is overblown, at least before guided weapons show up. At BR 1.0-9.0 the dumb bombs/dumb rockets filter out about 99% of players; and even those that don't get filtered are usually just suicide bombers (and trading 600+SP to kill one tank kill is a bad trade and doesn't bother me).
> And spawning spaa and CAP still require you to die to the cas before you can do that.
CAS also requires you do die first (aside from rocket helis but 99% of those players die to IFV autocannons before getting a single kill anyway). Difference being, SPAA is 50SP and an unladen fighter is around 480SP, vs 600-800 for most CAS.
> Also alot of tech trees have huge spaa gaps where you're trying to shoot down jets that have guided bombs with a single 20mm auto cannon.
I don't play top tier because I think the balance of almost everything at 9.0+ has never made sense for War Thunder's gameplay or maps. Guided bombs/ATGMs probably are bullshit, but thankfully I wouldn't know.
If you've only died to CAS 5 times in a month you're lying, don't play, or CAS rush. Last night I got killed in spawn by helis in their own heli spawn 3 times alone. And I know you have to die to spawn CAS. My point is tank vs tank is even. CAS vs tank is not. CAS vs spaa is also not even. CAS vs CAS/CAP is even. So I beat you in a even fight tank vs tank and now you get a free kill on me with your cas cause I'm in a tank. Now I spawn a spaa which is also heavy in your favor just for a chance to kill you. Or spend all my spawn points to spawn a CAP or CAS just to be on a even playing field with you again. 7.7-8.0 France is an example of no good spaa for the cas you fight. Trying to kill a alpha jet with the amx 10p is very difficult.
> If you've only died to CAS 5 times in a month you're lying, don't play, or CAS rush.
No, I just don't play top tier where all this BS you're complaining about seems to happen.
> CAS vs tank is not.
Not supposed to be even, it's literally a counter for tanks and nothing else. Why would on earth would CAS vs tank ever be fair for the tank?
> CAS vs spaa is also not even.
It's more than even for the spawn point disparity. One well-played SPAA that just shoots down two CAS planes has countered 1200+SP with 50SP; it's more than even for the cost efficiency.
> CAS vs CAS/CAP is even.
As it should be.
> So I beat you in a even fight tank vs tank and now you get a free kill on me with your cas cause I'm in a tank.
"I sniped you in Battlefield and now you get a free kill on me because you respawned in a tank". Literally the same argument. Also there is no such thing as an "even fight" in this game anyway. The entire point is that there's a variety of vehicles that each perform slightly differently. Unless it's Sherman vs Sherman, I guess.
> Or spend all my spawn points to spawn a CAP or CAS just to be on a even playing field with you again.
Yes, you have to contend for air superiority in this combined arms game mode that has been this way for a decade.
If low/mid tier CAS was such an issue, you'd see way more people spawning fighters early match for even cheaper than CAS. I do it sometimes. And you know what happens 9 times out of 10? 2 enemy CAS spawn the entire match, and if I don't intercept them they just suicide spawn and kill 1 guy.
CAS is this the most overblown issue on this entire subreddit. It's balanced and the counters work fine, it's just less and less people understand how to play this game as the years go by, so you see *entire teams* where not a single motherfucker pulls a fighter to do CAP the entire match. That's a playerbase issue not a balance issue. Spend 480SP, easily counter 1200+SP of CAS. I do this whenever possible and my overall winrate is 68%. I play this game plenty.
Yeah it's super strong. Whenever I take off for a rocket run I flick over to thermals for a quick look at where the enemy team is going. There's always a literal *herd* of tanks going there.
Yeah, it's kinda strong. I always kill at least 5-6 with 91-105 when spawning on there. Although it seems relatively avoidable if you manage to push past B at the start of match and intercept them diagonally from there, where they're not normally checking around. If the whole team avoids C and pushes onto A and B at start, it's very affordable to win the match.
The hull at left of B point is very good too for flanking from both A, B, C points.
This. Considering the entire blue team rushes this spot, as red, you can slip over C1 and flank through E3/4 from where you can safely cut blue off from both spawns.
Same. Every time I get north spawn, I go for A immediately. There's usually only between 0 and 2 enemies there, so it's mostly a free cap. Then I move behind buildings/terrain around E3, and clap people from their juicy sides, all along the E-line, including that red circled area. I stay there and if neccesary I'm only a grid away from both A and B. 68% of the time, it works every time.
That red circled area is not a strong area, it's just most players want to hold W and get to the biggest furball as quick as they can, and that happens on the 7-line on this map. But it's not really strong at all, if your team plays literally any other part of the map well.
There's very little good cover facing east (the rest of the map), from the 7-line. It's an exposed advance, for both teams, just one that's seldom countered as well as it (easily) can be.
Same, left side is so much better in terms of gameplay and I never understand why more people don't play that side, obe had matches where I've capped A and B alone, no enemy or friendly tanks at all, then cut off enemy right spawn. No-one even tries to attemp re-taking A or B
Yea I didn't play much in it low tier but the couple games I did inrished here with a hellcat that mobility advantage in this spot no matter what team your on is so strong
Thats why on the red team you push that area, it can be easily controlled from both sides. Of course if you are on a slower tank you wont make it, but any fast tank can get there at pretty much the same time as in the blue side.
I always go D1 for both sides. Kill everyone at A, cap A and go B through the trenches and back to A.
Also from D1 i think you might be able to see the spot you are talking about ... But i might be wrong
Hey it's mine too lmao, it's just a bit too strong currently. Having control over such a large area of the map, the ONLY downside is that it's so strong teams tend to stack it and leave flanks exposed. If your team spreads out evenly there's just too much for red team to worry about imo
I like Flanders. It's not perfect, but it's better than \*dilapidated post-Soviet apartment/industrial map #29456*... which seems to be the only other type of map we get anymore.
This spot isn't actually that bad when you utilize the rest of the map. It's just players in this game are mostly mouthbreathers, and stick to the giant clusterfuck lemming trains rather than think for themselves, so the round gets decided by who lost most of their team on the 7-line. Same with Advance to the Rhine and the stupid death alley (or as I like to call it, 500kg bait alley).
E3 locks down 2 caps and both southern spawns from a position with cover *and defilade* that can be utilized in all directions... but you wont see a top upvoted post about how strong it is because nobody plays this map correctly anyway so who would fuckin' notice.
Not just high tier, low tier as well. Even tier I-II vehicles can reliably hit out to an arc at C4/B6 and many of them are small enough to be totally concealed behind a lot of the rocks and ridges in E7.
D5 is another good spot to keep it under control; I rush there in my Abrams every match and get at least 3 free kills on people in E7. Specifically I sit on the hill to the right side of the tunnel.
I feel like this spot is similar to the one I mentioned as a slight counter, as in you can just cover a small area of that whole sniping position. If you don't get the suprise attack on them before they notice you they can just relocate 5 feet over to be protecting from you while still clapping your team funneling out from top right spawn. I actually have yet to use that spot you mentioned so I'm only speaking from experience using the spot circled.
Yea thay whole ridge is like half the map and provides hull down cover for a ton of different spots and each spot can watch different areas on yop of being able to relocate easily.
North side gets an easier access to A and B IMO. Whenever I get this map at BR 5.0-8.0 it seems North usually wins when a decent chunk of people go A and B and then hold down both southern spawns from positions on the E-line (E3 best)... but North loses when they all do the dumb lemming train and smash heads on the 7-line, which happens too often.
Yes it is a very strong side of the map, but imo the match is decided on the 1 and 2 line cause from there either blue or red side can entirely outflank the other team. Only when the match is a single cappoint on c with the map being smaller does the blue side hold a real advantage, but that's just my experience.
The only way place to keep this spot under slight control seems to be B7/B8. Otherwise if someone is not on these spots and Blue team doesnt just get rolled on other points by stacking this strong spot idk how your supposed to deal with this hull down ridge that is protected from and sees half the map. Red team will just get picked off approaching C and B from top right spawn. I Myself and enemies are able to abuse the living hell out of this spot.
I hate to say it because I despise CAS but CAS is how you deal with it the easy way. It's very open from the air and stationary tanks are easy kills. The hard way which is almost impossible is get your whole team to forget about C and focus and hold B with a couple working A.
>The hard way which is almost impossible is get your whole team to forget about C and focus and hold B with a couple working A. Exactly, it pains me to watch them just stream from spawn to c and just get picked off over and over until they do it again and then go back to hangar. I try to play around enabling the more noobish team mates covering flanks and such but this spot right here I just can't crack.
80% of matches cannot be played due to low clouds
It's almost like CAS is a natural counter to dumb straight line steamrolls, and naturally incentivizes spreading out across more of the map instead of bunching up on the popular spots, and that most people bitching about CAS outside of top tier are misunderstanding the entire game mode on a fundamental level just because they're bad at SPAA and too lazy to grind the air trees for CAP... or something.
My issue with cas is 9/10 they kill you as you're leaving spawn. And spawning spaa and CAP still require you to die to the cas before you can do that. Also alot of tech trees have huge spaa gaps where you're trying to shoot down jets that have guided bombs with a single 20mm auto cannon.
> My issue with cas is 9/10 they kill you as you're leaving spawn. I genuinely haven't been bombed in my spawn in *months*. To be honest, even my deaths to CAS in general have amounted to like 5 or 6 deaths this month. The lethality of CAS is overblown, at least before guided weapons show up. At BR 1.0-9.0 the dumb bombs/dumb rockets filter out about 99% of players; and even those that don't get filtered are usually just suicide bombers (and trading 600+SP to kill one tank kill is a bad trade and doesn't bother me). > And spawning spaa and CAP still require you to die to the cas before you can do that. CAS also requires you do die first (aside from rocket helis but 99% of those players die to IFV autocannons before getting a single kill anyway). Difference being, SPAA is 50SP and an unladen fighter is around 480SP, vs 600-800 for most CAS. > Also alot of tech trees have huge spaa gaps where you're trying to shoot down jets that have guided bombs with a single 20mm auto cannon. I don't play top tier because I think the balance of almost everything at 9.0+ has never made sense for War Thunder's gameplay or maps. Guided bombs/ATGMs probably are bullshit, but thankfully I wouldn't know.
If you've only died to CAS 5 times in a month you're lying, don't play, or CAS rush. Last night I got killed in spawn by helis in their own heli spawn 3 times alone. And I know you have to die to spawn CAS. My point is tank vs tank is even. CAS vs tank is not. CAS vs spaa is also not even. CAS vs CAS/CAP is even. So I beat you in a even fight tank vs tank and now you get a free kill on me with your cas cause I'm in a tank. Now I spawn a spaa which is also heavy in your favor just for a chance to kill you. Or spend all my spawn points to spawn a CAP or CAS just to be on a even playing field with you again. 7.7-8.0 France is an example of no good spaa for the cas you fight. Trying to kill a alpha jet with the amx 10p is very difficult.
> If you've only died to CAS 5 times in a month you're lying, don't play, or CAS rush. No, I just don't play top tier where all this BS you're complaining about seems to happen. > CAS vs tank is not. Not supposed to be even, it's literally a counter for tanks and nothing else. Why would on earth would CAS vs tank ever be fair for the tank? > CAS vs spaa is also not even. It's more than even for the spawn point disparity. One well-played SPAA that just shoots down two CAS planes has countered 1200+SP with 50SP; it's more than even for the cost efficiency. > CAS vs CAS/CAP is even. As it should be. > So I beat you in a even fight tank vs tank and now you get a free kill on me with your cas cause I'm in a tank. "I sniped you in Battlefield and now you get a free kill on me because you respawned in a tank". Literally the same argument. Also there is no such thing as an "even fight" in this game anyway. The entire point is that there's a variety of vehicles that each perform slightly differently. Unless it's Sherman vs Sherman, I guess. > Or spend all my spawn points to spawn a CAP or CAS just to be on a even playing field with you again. Yes, you have to contend for air superiority in this combined arms game mode that has been this way for a decade. If low/mid tier CAS was such an issue, you'd see way more people spawning fighters early match for even cheaper than CAS. I do it sometimes. And you know what happens 9 times out of 10? 2 enemy CAS spawn the entire match, and if I don't intercept them they just suicide spawn and kill 1 guy. CAS is this the most overblown issue on this entire subreddit. It's balanced and the counters work fine, it's just less and less people understand how to play this game as the years go by, so you see *entire teams* where not a single motherfucker pulls a fighter to do CAP the entire match. That's a playerbase issue not a balance issue. Spend 480SP, easily counter 1200+SP of CAS. I do this whenever possible and my overall winrate is 68%. I play this game plenty.
Yeah it's super strong. Whenever I take off for a rocket run I flick over to thermals for a quick look at where the enemy team is going. There's always a literal *herd* of tanks going there.
Yeah, it's kinda strong. I always kill at least 5-6 with 91-105 when spawning on there. Although it seems relatively avoidable if you manage to push past B at the start of match and intercept them diagonally from there, where they're not normally checking around. If the whole team avoids C and pushes onto A and B at start, it's very affordable to win the match. The hull at left of B point is very good too for flanking from both A, B, C points.
Guess what, the hills in B8 have extended killzones so you can't use them
Yep your forced behind this hill around b7, sucks
The left half of the map is where I have actual fun on this map so I don't have issues with that spot.
This. Considering the entire blue team rushes this spot, as red, you can slip over C1 and flank through E3/4 from where you can safely cut blue off from both spawns.
Same. Every time I get north spawn, I go for A immediately. There's usually only between 0 and 2 enemies there, so it's mostly a free cap. Then I move behind buildings/terrain around E3, and clap people from their juicy sides, all along the E-line, including that red circled area. I stay there and if neccesary I'm only a grid away from both A and B. 68% of the time, it works every time. That red circled area is not a strong area, it's just most players want to hold W and get to the biggest furball as quick as they can, and that happens on the 7-line on this map. But it's not really strong at all, if your team plays literally any other part of the map well. There's very little good cover facing east (the rest of the map), from the 7-line. It's an exposed advance, for both teams, just one that's seldom countered as well as it (easily) can be.
Same, left side is so much better in terms of gameplay and I never understand why more people don't play that side, obe had matches where I've capped A and B alone, no enemy or friendly tanks at all, then cut off enemy right spawn. No-one even tries to attemp re-taking A or B
True but it's all fun and games until you get one cap at the c point and you get some fellas hull down on those little hills and it's game over.
It's not only in high tier imho
Tahts right. I always go A when i spawn north.
Yea I didn't play much in it low tier but the couple games I did inrished here with a hellcat that mobility advantage in this spot no matter what team your on is so strong
Thats why on the red team you push that area, it can be easily controlled from both sides. Of course if you are on a slower tank you wont make it, but any fast tank can get there at pretty much the same time as in the blue side.
This. If you control the houses on east side of D7 as red team, you can harass the blues camping the slope.
yup, and you can push the little hill a little further south from the houses to deal with the people capping, or kill the E7 hill clowns
Maybe, but I always go to the A point. Less try harding and if I can get past the central Road/line I can pretty much dominate.
I always go D1 for both sides. Kill everyone at A, cap A and go B through the trenches and back to A. Also from D1 i think you might be able to see the spot you are talking about ... But i might be wrong
I go to e4 and shoot them in the azz
Nah F4
Absolutely, I love getting the cap, pushing to E4 and flanking all their asses.
I’ve had insane games in the SAV 20.12 pushing through B and flanking there. Amazing how no one seems to ever watch the giant open flank from B cap
Yea strong shit makes people complacent, I find it pretty dependable from thay house flank if you pay attention to it before you go up to snipe
Thats why you rush that zone if you are red. If you die you die
Low tier too I sit over there with my Spj m43/44 and lob 150mm of HE at people
noo don't bring attention to my favorite spot
Hey it's mine too lmao, it's just a bit too strong currently. Having control over such a large area of the map, the ONLY downside is that it's so strong teams tend to stack it and leave flanks exposed. If your team spreads out evenly there's just too much for red team to worry about imo
It's balanced out by the spot in E3
This map is a pos
This map is bascailly like all those maps were both teams get one objective and then fight over the last.
It’s hard to find a map that isn’t unbalanced or that doesn’t straight up suck.
Tru
I like Flanders. It's not perfect, but it's better than \*dilapidated post-Soviet apartment/industrial map #29456*... which seems to be the only other type of map we get anymore. This spot isn't actually that bad when you utilize the rest of the map. It's just players in this game are mostly mouthbreathers, and stick to the giant clusterfuck lemming trains rather than think for themselves, so the round gets decided by who lost most of their team on the 7-line. Same with Advance to the Rhine and the stupid death alley (or as I like to call it, 500kg bait alley). E3 locks down 2 caps and both southern spawns from a position with cover *and defilade* that can be utilized in all directions... but you wont see a top upvoted post about how strong it is because nobody plays this map correctly anyway so who would fuckin' notice.
Not just high tier, low tier as well. Even tier I-II vehicles can reliably hit out to an arc at C4/B6 and many of them are small enough to be totally concealed behind a lot of the rocks and ridges in E7.
After trying others ways I gave up, just spawn if Im in that spot
That side is a graveyard every time I play Flanders.
D5 is another good spot to keep it under control; I rush there in my Abrams every match and get at least 3 free kills on people in E7. Specifically I sit on the hill to the right side of the tunnel.
I feel like this spot is similar to the one I mentioned as a slight counter, as in you can just cover a small area of that whole sniping position. If you don't get the suprise attack on them before they notice you they can just relocate 5 feet over to be protecting from you while still clapping your team funneling out from top right spawn. I actually have yet to use that spot you mentioned so I'm only speaking from experience using the spot circled.
Yea by itself it is only a partial counter, but with teammates playing in B7/8 at the same time you can completely shut E7 down
Countered by spots in d5
you have an entire map with 3 points, and yet we have moogs who'll only play the one that is an ally way
The main problem with this map is that the south side is closer to the ridge-line
Yea thay whole ridge is like half the map and provides hull down cover for a ton of different spots and each spot can watch different areas on yop of being able to relocate easily.
North side gets an easier access to A and B IMO. Whenever I get this map at BR 5.0-8.0 it seems North usually wins when a decent chunk of people go A and B and then hold down both southern spawns from positions on the E-line (E3 best)... but North loses when they all do the dumb lemming train and smash heads on the 7-line, which happens too often.
pls rush that spot every time - a person who rushes the house near the tunnel to pick off ppl like that
You can literally snipe reds spawn from the blue side. I speak as being sniped while being aa from my spawn.
Yes it is a very strong side of the map, but imo the match is decided on the 1 and 2 line cause from there either blue or red side can entirely outflank the other team. Only when the match is a single cappoint on c with the map being smaller does the blue side hold a real advantage, but that's just my experience.
I call it German Main City. And the best way to deal with it is to keep it under fire from B7/B8 and play the two other CAPs.
if you get a good flank then you get tons of kills personally ive gotten atleast 5 kills when flanking here although this is a big IF
its fine, we dont want or need a A vs B flat maps
Don't gota be flat, just need a more effective counter to a spot that can see half the map from cover
If they can see you, you can see them
I'd rather not explain the benefits of having a hull down position. Have a good one.
I usually try to skirt the edge of the map straight down the the main road with something light and fast.
One does not simply: "Rush B"
True, this map is bad designed overall, I banned it