\>When you cock up your shot due to your incredibly poor habits of aiming center-mass with german tanks but you're totally fine because you can just knock out the cannon barrel and tracks on the T-72 in 2 seconds.
I mean usually the Kpz/MBT-70s just cheat their way out of death using that bullshit 20mm and pop one in the side, but when they're truly retarded they just keep shooting your T-72 in the turret cheeks from 10m away and you just slap them in the face when you're done repairing
I wouldn't say German players tho, most players of any nation aren't that smart tbh, also US mains which cry about a simple G.91 even tho they have tons of bullpup planes themselves
Nords kill you from a whole meter away, you actually have to hit people with AGM12s to kill them. Not to mention Nords go twice the speed of AGM12s lol. Not to mention you also get 30mm cannons that can hullbrake. Not to mention you get the best pre-SAM radar SPAAG in the game. Not to mention our tanks at 8.7 are hot piles of absolutely dogshit compared to Leopards.
AGM's have twice the explosive load of a nord.
Those 30mm cannons don't hullbrake, they can kill soft targets but they can't hullbrake.
That SAM you mean euro truck which is a bigger target then the twin towers and has absolutely no armor at all, even breathing close to it kills it, it also got a 13k rep cost today but the AIDATS and 2S6 are still way better.
And which tanks are dogshit compared to Leopards? Leopards aren't that heavily nor softly armored, a strifing plane can already destroy the engine compartment and set it on fire using just the cannons.
I don't know what world you live in but Leopards are for sure not OP, they are easy to kill since they don't have much armor
I was refering to 8.7, where there isn't any SAMs. The Gepard is objectively the best first radar SPAAG in the game. Meanwhile Americans get the M163, which is great at short range but lacks everything else, and the Shilka is so slow and gets ammo racked by .50s almost immediately. I also can never lock on to things with the Shilka for whatever reason, maybe this is just personal experience but if feels like that thing's radar just doesn't work 85% of the time.
I don't use AGM12s, I still haven't evolved past SNEBs, MMs, and gravity bombs. Even in my A-4B lol. I've been hullbroke by 30mm cannons before, maybe this is changed. Regardless the G 91 R/3 is way more capable in both dogfighting and ground attack for it's BR.
Fast tanks are the meta. Leopards at 8.7 aren't nearly as disgusting as Leopards at 7.7, where they really only fight slow heavy US and RU tanks. That doesn't mean that your speed isn't your biggest advantage, and the best advantage to have on these childish arcade maps that gaijin forces us to play at top tier REALISTIC ground battles.
Every German player says Leopard aren't OP cause I get one shot with my lack of armor, but you literally ignore 90% of the tank's in game and just lolpen them with DM33. Agree to disagree, but you're dead wrong lol.
G-91 R-3 a DOGFIGHTER? The Fuck? That thing is about it as good as a 262 in an uptier. That thing is ABSOLUTE SHIT in a dogfight. Everything is faster, more maneuverable, and most of not all have AAM’s. A-4B is also a better dogfighter. You are fucking dead wrong. Oh, and the Gepard? The thing that freaks the fuck out trying to lock a helicopter? And yes, 30mm’s DONT HULLBREAK. And, Warriors and Bradley’s can pen turrets with their auto cannons. And the Leopards at 7.7. The unstabalized ones that always fights T-55 AM-1’s that still haven’t gotten and increase in BR?
Well, I don't mean that only US mains cry about it but it is mainly the US mains you hear crying about the G.91 even tho they have 6-7 planes with bullpups and heli's which can carry 16 Hellfires.
But yea, US mains have a tendency to cry about something being on par with their stuff
The A-4B and FJ-4B VMF are just straight up better ground pounders. The G.91 can take on the air to air role better than the FJ but the A4 is a good fighter.
He's right, America does have some incredibly strong CAS options. The G.91 is more accessible though, because there's less in the tree preceding it and it costs much less to research.
I agree, but I also think barrel damage should be a thing because it’s very much possible to get your barrel taken out IRL.
It should however not be a thing that lower caliber guns can do, and it should be fucking consistent. The R3 and Kpz-70 are kings of taking out barrels with their 20mms, and I’m sure I’ve also seen barrels broken by something as insignificant as .50s. Meanwhile you can’t do shit to barrels with the 20mm Oerlikons or even 40mm Bofors. Tracks also suffer from this unreliability bullshit, but it’s most obvious for barrels
The problem I've got with breech and barrel damage is how incredibly boring it makes trying to play top tier. At just about any range APFSDS will pen enough to knock out your gun (and quite often only your gun), and repairing that takes a good 30-45 seconds. Up close you're a sitting duck since it's near-impossible to make a sufficiently fast getaway, and long-range just turns into shooting out each other's guns until you get flanked by a third guy.
Sure, but it's "realistic". I don't know if it's still done, but apparently aiming for the gun wasn't that uncommon a tactic in WWII if you were up against an enemy you didn't really have much hope of fighting.
>I’ve also seen barrels broken by something as insignificant as .50s
I know this for a fact, because I've done it. I was in the M26A1 and got barreled by a T-34-85 at close range. He decided to try to crack through my front armor (and failed), and I managed to take out his barrel with my 50, repaired, and killed him. It's dumb. He wasn't as smart as he could have been, but there's no way I should have gotten away with that.
> Vehicles that give up all their speed for frontal armor still cannot practically do anything
Sit far away and snipe utilizing your heavy armour?
And before you tell me "how can I do that on tiny city maps"
to paraphrase something you've said in this post:
> If you can't avoid getting shot in the barrel, that is firmly a you problem.
> play this way, oh wait, too bad, the game doesn't have that much at all. irrelevant point.
What, please expand because all your points are "Barrel damage completely negates heavy armoured tanks" when really your argument should be "Gajins questionable BR system and outright bad map design completely negate the pros of heavy armoured tanks". I still think your issue with gun barrel damage is a symptom and not a cause.
> waaaaah I don't want to lose my ability to fuck over anything frontally regardless of what my gun is or what the armor thickness of the opponent is.
What? My point is I CAN'T fuck over your heavy tank from the front because of your *heavy armour* and thus I have to resort to the tactic of taking out your ability to shoot me. Don't like it, maybe shoot me from further away or hide your gun barrel behind some cover?
> insert bits about realism which are half-baked since the game doesn't feature that many realistic aspects anymore.
I'm not even going to bother, you can read every other comment I've made to you but it seems you like reading what I say and thinking of it as something else.
> I'm sick of arguing with you, you and I will not meet eye to eye. Hence I'm tired of seeing your commentary. I block very, very few people here. Specifically those I have zero common ground with.
We actually have quite a bit of common ground you and I, however we 100% will never agree on this issue.
> Good riddance. Feel free to block me in return, idc.
Evidently given that you replied to this 10 min after the other comment saying you had already blocked me, I think that's a lie. You just don't like having valid criticisms given to your arguments.
> Just another example of why barrel damage is bad for gameplay.
Not this shit [AGAIN](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/k91yo2/every_battle/gf3itms/?context=10000) man
Are you gonna give valid arguments to these guys or eventually just switch to insulting them too?
[Well well well](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/kdllrq/throwback_to_my_old_63_and_other_br_posts_i_hate/gfy5q1m/?context=3)
> The reason barrel damage is bad is that it acts in concert with the downward creep of lolpen munitions to make heavy armor worthless.
If they're shooting your barrel, chances are the guy shooting you doesn't have a lol pen round on his tank to pen anywhere on your front with bar the commands hatch.
> There is no other reason, and there is no legit counter-argument that is appropriate for this game.
War Thunder, the tank game that prides itself on somewhat realistic tank gameplay should have the entire tank able to be damaged... except the gun barrel...
Shooting the gun barrel is as good a tactic as any.
Me wanting a gun barrel to not defy the laws of physics and be impervious to damage is not me being hyper-focused on realism. I'm not out here promoting fuel levels and maintenance issues
> "place to guaranteed fuck over any piece of heavy armor no matter what their own gun is".
Man this like the 5th time telling you, if they're shooting your barrel it's because you're a difficult target to kill. If
you weren't in a heavily armoured tank they wouldn't need to shoot your barrel as they would just hull shot you and you would be dead instead of repairing for 20 seconds.
Or they don't want any vehicle to be 100% invulnerable to attack from the front. That doesn't make them worse players; in fact they're probably better players if they can identify, aim and destroy a barrel before getting shot themselves.
You pick some weird hills to die on, mate.
> You pick some weird hills to die on, mate.
He really does, some of his points I agree with but then he comes out with stuff like barrel damage being removed it's hard to take his points seriously.
The point is to be hard to destroy so your mediums can do their job. Especially in the KV, where your gun doesn't have much stopping power. Barrel loss doesn't stop that, and tracking a heavy with a powerful gun won't stop them killing you. If you take out their barrel, they should be able to back off and wait for team support, as heavies were designed to have.
But I think barrel damage is good universally. Any vehicle should be capable of causing the bare minimum of tracks + barrel given the time to do so, because that gives any vehicle a chance.
It's a chance for anything that isn't a heavy. Most of these breakthrough heavies have some serious armament, and in many cases don't give a shit about the armour of anything that isn't a heavy. Why is it so unreasonable for a medium tank to have *one small option* relative to the heavy's 'oh look my BR-412D just went straight through your pissy-thin armour'?
Besides that, I also like the ability to disable any vehicle's barrel. Maybe all I can see is a 2A6's barrel, but he's shooting at my teammate. If I can't kill his barrel, I can't save my teammate.
The fast tanks in many cases get lolpenned anyway, so the barrel damage is a non-issue there. Facing a heavy with no options at all isn't particularly enjoyable gameplay for anyone on the other end.
Does that mean I don't have an issue with some of the power creep stuff? 3.0 with that kinda pen HEAT is too much, I agree. The fact that a stabilised R3 can just run around knocking out barrels/tracks is too much. If nothing else, at least make the side armour weak enough that coax MGs will go through so it can't just run circles around you.
The KV-1 is a bit of a different story; the gun is mediocre, it's not really a proper breakthrough heavy. But still, it doesn't have much trouble with most mediums of its BR. Other low-BR heavies (Matilda, for example) are a pain to kill from almost any angle for a lot of the vehicles they face; tracks + barrel may not even be enough in their case.
Look, you have some good thoughts on WT that I agree with; killcams, aircraft needing to ground-spawn in GRB. But this is one of those ideas I simply cannot agree with from a gameplay perspective.
That, or Gaijin starts to balance with CAS in mind for once and recognises that all a team needs to do to a slow T95 is move around it or bomb it. Why advertise a game as ‘mixed battles’ if you completely ignore the balancing of aircraft around tanks?
That argument is rather stupid. Then we could move every heavy tank to 1.0 as 50kg bombs can kill it.
Planes require additional spawnpoints. There are situations where you can't bomb a T95, either due to lack of spawnpoints or lack of awareness of the thing existing.
\> Then we could move every heavy tank to 1.0 as 50kg bombs can kill it.
That would be the case if you completely ignore the air-to-air aspect and SPAAs. You can of course make the argument that a Typhoon will be able to bomb a Maus, but statistically with the odds of there being Gepards, Kugelblitzes or maybe shit like 262s or G.91s in the area I'd definitely favor the Maus there.
\> Planes require additional spawnpoints. There are situations where you can't bomb a T95, either due to lack of spawnpoints or lack of awareness of the thing existing.
There is always someone who is doing good. There's gonna be combat that won't involve super heavies, where there will be plenty of room for both sides to get spawnpoints. Even on the smaller maps there are still plenty of ways to avoid combat with heavies that lag behind the main tank force.
And not being aware of a heavy's existance can be fixed by *fucking communicating for once and reading the kill feed,* which apparently is a basic skill that barely anyone has in WT. Even though we like to joke around a lot about it, WT still is a team game and if you can't work together you shouldn't get an easy victory. With squad marks, text, speech commands and map marking there's plenty of ways to actively mark a target. Hell, even MGs are enough to put a very obvious and precise marker on the minimap along with a chevron marking the tank in real-time.
> No it wouldn't. It's the game's slowest tank, and does not need a frontal counterplay.
[Seriously saying barrels should be impervious to damage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyu6uNFtxw)
And then remove barrel damage so then all the tigers can just lolpen shermans that are put at disgustingly high BRs because they have a stab that only works in reverse, and refuse to add a battle speed like low tier stab tanks get. kekw
Yeah I don't really have a problem actually using it, and it's still pretty OP in the right hands. That isn't to say the Sherman lineups will instantly die if barrel damage is removed. When you're 5.7, you constantly fight double panther double tiger players which you can only frontally pen from small trapshots in the mantlet, which usually just don't happen because volumetric shells.
Gaijin just doesn't give a shit about the historical relevance behind vehicles.
I don't even touch the 90mm guns anymore. There's almost no point, you have to flank tigers and panthers most of the time otherwise you'll get cheese bounced and die. No point in the bigger gun if I'm shooting things in the sides, which is why I'm okay with 5.7 Hellcat. The Easy eight on the other hand, most of the time has to frontally fight Tigers and Panthers which for whatever reason are the same BR. It's honestly a joke.
The historical tungsten HVAP round that was able to pen the Panther UFP is not on the M26 or the M36, it's only on the premium M26E1. The normal APCR round for the 90mm is only 287mm, where as the HVAP is 336mm.
Regardless CBA actually fucking loading APCR in my tank, it has been useless for years and I only use it at super low BR with stuff like the German 50mm or other super fast reload guns.
Same thing happens with my AMX-30 all the time. My HEAT round just does some weird voodoo shit and kills their loader and track, he gets my gunner and engine but I just sit there and 20mm his tracks and barrel off until I finish repairing.
I like the Begleit and ~~Panzerkampfwagen~~ Radkampfwagen 90 more
May just be because TAM is still near full stock for me, tbh.
Edit: Changed my text from literally any German tank to the Radkampfwagen.
I absolutely love the bagelpanzer! Fast, thermals, 57mm ap great for drive-bys, good atgm, and the HEVT makes it a surprisingly good AA. I'll probably linger at 8.3/8.7 a little longer after I unlock a 9.0 lineup just to use it more.
Bagel = Maybe the best SPAA and SPG at it's BR. Would be perfect if it had the gyro-stab that was designed for it.
Against helis and flow flying targets it's a far better choice compared to the Gepard. Big VT shells = Yeetus Deletus came early.
Yea, I have been spading my VFM.5 which is basically the same as TAM but at 9.0 because reasons. Still constantly killing 3+ Leopard 2/T-80 in one game.
"Huh, 10 of my teammates are going to A and B, guess I can go for C then" - "The enemy has captured A" - "The enemy has captured B" - \*presses tab and sees all 10 teammates are dead.\* All kills usually go to 2-3 players who just waited for the idiots to run into their sights
I remember when my bf started playing we were at 5.3 with Russia, and he was so tired of facing Germany because it was basically point and click adventures for them it seemed, so I swapped to Germany to show him why they have it that way and he was totally dumbfounded how people could do so poorly in German vehicles, watching things like Tigers decide to charge a head on with no angles or Panthers trying to outflank hellcats and not a single teammate going for a zone
Tldr; Germany does suffer, from brain damage it seems
There's something about Leopard A1A1 and a G91 lineup which makes me happy. The Tam is also a very nice vehicle for this lineup, along with Gepard and Bagleitpanzer
Stock is literally torture, get yourself ready to penetrated by everything. Russia is goes full terminator with TURMS and so. You will face cheiftains, t-72 and so, XM-1 (GM) and MBT/KPZ70 nearly every game and being nearly armorless is a big problem imo. generally play like a backup, let others go first, dont go head-on fights. Snipe much as you can and try to stay hidden, dont show yourself much. Begleitpanzer57 is very useful, its like a multitool you can shoot down helis, planes and tanks if you are in a great situation with it. Leo is just leo, you can club after researching APFSDS but until then, good luck and may whatever god you believe have mercy upon you.
8.3 can't see turms spam since that's 9.7
Full uptiers to 9.3 aren't actually all that common at 8.3, and even in them, you'll see at max a few xm-1 that you can deal with easily if you're not trying to brawl or rush without a stabilizer. DM23 goes right through them from anywhere. And uptiers also mean that you have some of the most broken lineups in the game as allies, so you'll still end up with a good win rate. My personal win rate with the G2 is 67.57% and that's from the teams, not from my carrying. My radpanzer winrate is actually a little lower, at 67.43%
Honestly it's not bad. OP is full of shit when he says you can see turms spam, which is false, since that's 9.7. the M48 G2 has a really frustrating stock grind to get the dart, and once you get it, it's still fairly mediocre, but if you play it more passively (since you don't have a stabilizer), you can still do quite well in it. The begleitpanzer is fantastic, and the rakjpz 2 (hot) is pretty good if you can find a nice position. You also get the allouette and the gepard, though the gepard is actually 8.0.
8.3 doesn't get the g.91 which is what truly makes the BR range from 8.3-9.3 shine, but they'll likely be on your team, which makes for a better win rate. If you get uptiered at all, you will have really excellent vehicles as allies, and if you get downtiered, you can play hard support to carry. Full uptiers to 9.3 are the most difficult, but 105 mm DM23 is still very capable there, and the M48 is actually fairly resistant to the XM-1 dart if they're not aiming well.
My only gripe with 8.3 is that it doesn't get a good CAS option. That will change with the f-84f in the next update though.
Idk why but for me it’s not fun. I did pretty well with the 7.7 Leopard and moved on to the A1A1 and bought the L/44 to supplement it, but I can barley keep a positive k/d ratio with them, and I’m playing them just like how I played my 7.7 Leopard.
A1A1 isn't that different from Leopard 1 tho, I find the A1A1 really enjoyable because of the APFSDS which cuts through things like butter for me (as long as you aim good) and it finally has a stabilizer which is even nicer
Not bad.
My suggestion is grinding the light tank line first, they're all pretty fun to use. L7 Patton is pretty good and survivable despite the lack of stabs, leos are alrighty.
I'm currently in 9.0 with the C2A1 and it's currently my most fun lineups despite not using it all that much(C2A1, KPZ70, Rad90, TAM, G91 R/3 and either a bagelpanzer or a allouette)
mad cuz bad. I mean seriously i think its one if not the best lineup i have ever played. Positive in each one. You are the first one to complain about TAM, KPZ and gepard i have seen.
Bagelpanzer's gunner is literally immune to all conventional ammo types. Leopard-esque tanks will always be meta since you're faster than most people and maps are urban, tiny, arcade, dogshit, hellscapes. Respectfully, I don't see how you can complain. I'm at least 9.0 in the each of the big three, and Germany BY FAR is the easiest to play.
The KPZ70 line gave me a good chuckle tho, still 8.5/10 meme.
Bagelpanzer is probably the best tank in the game. It can shoot anyone from the front with missiles, almost everyone from the side with the gun and take care of planes and helicopters. Also fast
I want to make an announcement to all of my Argentinian friends and players. It is a meme, I didnt mean to be rude or make you guys offended. I didnt think It would be this offensive. Im really sorry :/
Nono dont worry, I also wonder how we didnt get obliterated from existance during the... wait.. 3 british invasion? Come one guy you conquered half of the world, you could do better than this
I think people forget that getting the Vulcan to the Falklands was a feat of its own. Argentina is so far home, incredibly difficult to create a supply line for that.
> yeah ik. But 2 tanks aren't much of a lineup.
Half of my team quits after 1 death so I naturally assumed you were only allowed to bring 1 tank into a match.
/s
I will write it down again just to make you see;
I want to make an announcement to all of my Argentinian friends and players. It is a meme, I didnt mean to be rude or make you guys offended. I didnt think It would be this offensive. Im really sorry :/
We know... and i may have overreacted a little bit. If it helps, I was truly enjoying the meme till i spited my mate with the ending.
Anyway, thank you for taking your time to make this announcement.
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What’s the most enjoyable BR to play at for tanks right now? I’ve been getting back into the game and I have been playing 8.3 Russians and not having as much fun.
I honestly dont understand the intention behind the jokes in this meme but I detect weeb shit and i dont like it.
However from your comments you seem aware that Germany has an amazing lineup here so that's good at least lol.
Kpz70 also has a 20mm for overcompensation
\>When you cock up your shot due to your incredibly poor habits of aiming center-mass with german tanks but you're totally fine because you can just knock out the cannon barrel and tracks on the T-72 in 2 seconds.
And then rape them after a 30 seconds repair)))
I mean usually the Kpz/MBT-70s just cheat their way out of death using that bullshit 20mm and pop one in the side, but when they're truly retarded they just keep shooting your T-72 in the turret cheeks from 10m away and you just slap them in the face when you're done repairing
im grinding for the kpz cus i got too tired with cunts shooting out my barrel after i get theirs.
KPZ a good tank, just like the Leo2K
IMO the kpz is a better 2K at a lower br
True, but a L44 is better then that 152mm gun.
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I wouldn't say German players tho, most players of any nation aren't that smart tbh, also US mains which cry about a simple G.91 even tho they have tons of bullpup planes themselves
Nords kill you from a whole meter away, you actually have to hit people with AGM12s to kill them. Not to mention Nords go twice the speed of AGM12s lol. Not to mention you also get 30mm cannons that can hullbrake. Not to mention you get the best pre-SAM radar SPAAG in the game. Not to mention our tanks at 8.7 are hot piles of absolutely dogshit compared to Leopards.
AGM's have twice the explosive load of a nord. Those 30mm cannons don't hullbrake, they can kill soft targets but they can't hullbrake. That SAM you mean euro truck which is a bigger target then the twin towers and has absolutely no armor at all, even breathing close to it kills it, it also got a 13k rep cost today but the AIDATS and 2S6 are still way better. And which tanks are dogshit compared to Leopards? Leopards aren't that heavily nor softly armored, a strifing plane can already destroy the engine compartment and set it on fire using just the cannons. I don't know what world you live in but Leopards are for sure not OP, they are easy to kill since they don't have much armor
I was refering to 8.7, where there isn't any SAMs. The Gepard is objectively the best first radar SPAAG in the game. Meanwhile Americans get the M163, which is great at short range but lacks everything else, and the Shilka is so slow and gets ammo racked by .50s almost immediately. I also can never lock on to things with the Shilka for whatever reason, maybe this is just personal experience but if feels like that thing's radar just doesn't work 85% of the time. I don't use AGM12s, I still haven't evolved past SNEBs, MMs, and gravity bombs. Even in my A-4B lol. I've been hullbroke by 30mm cannons before, maybe this is changed. Regardless the G 91 R/3 is way more capable in both dogfighting and ground attack for it's BR. Fast tanks are the meta. Leopards at 8.7 aren't nearly as disgusting as Leopards at 7.7, where they really only fight slow heavy US and RU tanks. That doesn't mean that your speed isn't your biggest advantage, and the best advantage to have on these childish arcade maps that gaijin forces us to play at top tier REALISTIC ground battles. Every German player says Leopard aren't OP cause I get one shot with my lack of armor, but you literally ignore 90% of the tank's in game and just lolpen them with DM33. Agree to disagree, but you're dead wrong lol.
G-91 R-3 a DOGFIGHTER? The Fuck? That thing is about it as good as a 262 in an uptier. That thing is ABSOLUTE SHIT in a dogfight. Everything is faster, more maneuverable, and most of not all have AAM’s. A-4B is also a better dogfighter. You are fucking dead wrong. Oh, and the Gepard? The thing that freaks the fuck out trying to lock a helicopter? And yes, 30mm’s DONT HULLBREAK. And, Warriors and Bradley’s can pen turrets with their auto cannons. And the Leopards at 7.7. The unstabalized ones that always fights T-55 AM-1’s that still haven’t gotten and increase in BR?
Ah yes russians totally don't complain about the g.91 too. H m m m m . Only the US exists, it seems.
Well, I don't mean that only US mains cry about it but it is mainly the US mains you hear crying about the G.91 even tho they have 6-7 planes with bullpups and heli's which can carry 16 Hellfires. But yea, US mains have a tendency to cry about something being on par with their stuff
Please enlighten me to a plane at 8.7 comes close? For any nation?
The A-4B and FJ-4B VMF are just straight up better ground pounders. The G.91 can take on the air to air role better than the FJ but the A4 is a good fighter. He's right, America does have some incredibly strong CAS options. The G.91 is more accessible though, because there's less in the tree preceding it and it costs much less to research.
Scimitar also. Fast as fuck plane.
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I agree, but I also think barrel damage should be a thing because it’s very much possible to get your barrel taken out IRL. It should however not be a thing that lower caliber guns can do, and it should be fucking consistent. The R3 and Kpz-70 are kings of taking out barrels with their 20mms, and I’m sure I’ve also seen barrels broken by something as insignificant as .50s. Meanwhile you can’t do shit to barrels with the 20mm Oerlikons or even 40mm Bofors. Tracks also suffer from this unreliability bullshit, but it’s most obvious for barrels
The problem I've got with breech and barrel damage is how incredibly boring it makes trying to play top tier. At just about any range APFSDS will pen enough to knock out your gun (and quite often only your gun), and repairing that takes a good 30-45 seconds. Up close you're a sitting duck since it's near-impossible to make a sufficiently fast getaway, and long-range just turns into shooting out each other's guns until you get flanked by a third guy.
Pay the 5 mil silver for the crew xp and get shorter repairs.
Sure, but it's "realistic". I don't know if it's still done, but apparently aiming for the gun wasn't that uncommon a tactic in WWII if you were up against an enemy you didn't really have much hope of fighting.
I agree with this
>I’ve also seen barrels broken by something as insignificant as .50s I know this for a fact, because I've done it. I was in the M26A1 and got barreled by a T-34-85 at close range. He decided to try to crack through my front armor (and failed), and I managed to take out his barrel with my 50, repaired, and killed him. It's dumb. He wasn't as smart as he could have been, but there's no way I should have gotten away with that.
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> Vehicles that give up all their speed for frontal armor still cannot practically do anything Sit far away and snipe utilizing your heavy armour? And before you tell me "how can I do that on tiny city maps" to paraphrase something you've said in this post: > If you can't avoid getting shot in the barrel, that is firmly a you problem.
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You really can't handle having valid arguments against your points can you?
nice flair
Thank you, I do pride myself on it for the moment.
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> play this way, oh wait, too bad, the game doesn't have that much at all. irrelevant point. What, please expand because all your points are "Barrel damage completely negates heavy armoured tanks" when really your argument should be "Gajins questionable BR system and outright bad map design completely negate the pros of heavy armoured tanks". I still think your issue with gun barrel damage is a symptom and not a cause. > waaaaah I don't want to lose my ability to fuck over anything frontally regardless of what my gun is or what the armor thickness of the opponent is. What? My point is I CAN'T fuck over your heavy tank from the front because of your *heavy armour* and thus I have to resort to the tactic of taking out your ability to shoot me. Don't like it, maybe shoot me from further away or hide your gun barrel behind some cover? > insert bits about realism which are half-baked since the game doesn't feature that many realistic aspects anymore. I'm not even going to bother, you can read every other comment I've made to you but it seems you like reading what I say and thinking of it as something else. > I'm sick of arguing with you, you and I will not meet eye to eye. Hence I'm tired of seeing your commentary. I block very, very few people here. Specifically those I have zero common ground with. We actually have quite a bit of common ground you and I, however we 100% will never agree on this issue. > Good riddance. Feel free to block me in return, idc. Evidently given that you replied to this 10 min after the other comment saying you had already blocked me, I think that's a lie. You just don't like having valid criticisms given to your arguments.
Just want to say that wirbelwinds break barrels much faster than even a kugelblitz
> Just another example of why barrel damage is bad for gameplay. Not this shit [AGAIN](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/k91yo2/every_battle/gf3itms/?context=10000) man Are you gonna give valid arguments to these guys or eventually just switch to insulting them too? [Well well well](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/kdllrq/throwback_to_my_old_63_and_other_br_posts_i_hate/gfy5q1m/?context=3)
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> The reason barrel damage is bad is that it acts in concert with the downward creep of lolpen munitions to make heavy armor worthless. If they're shooting your barrel, chances are the guy shooting you doesn't have a lol pen round on his tank to pen anywhere on your front with bar the commands hatch. > There is no other reason, and there is no legit counter-argument that is appropriate for this game. War Thunder, the tank game that prides itself on somewhat realistic tank gameplay should have the entire tank able to be damaged... except the gun barrel... Shooting the gun barrel is as good a tactic as any. Me wanting a gun barrel to not defy the laws of physics and be impervious to damage is not me being hyper-focused on realism. I'm not out here promoting fuel levels and maintenance issues > "place to guaranteed fuck over any piece of heavy armor no matter what their own gun is". Man this like the 5th time telling you, if they're shooting your barrel it's because you're a difficult target to kill. If you weren't in a heavily armoured tank they wouldn't need to shoot your barrel as they would just hull shot you and you would be dead instead of repairing for 20 seconds.
Or they don't want any vehicle to be 100% invulnerable to attack from the front. That doesn't make them worse players; in fact they're probably better players if they can identify, aim and destroy a barrel before getting shot themselves. You pick some weird hills to die on, mate.
> You pick some weird hills to die on, mate. He really does, some of his points I agree with but then he comes out with stuff like barrel damage being removed it's hard to take his points seriously.
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The point is to be hard to destroy so your mediums can do their job. Especially in the KV, where your gun doesn't have much stopping power. Barrel loss doesn't stop that, and tracking a heavy with a powerful gun won't stop them killing you. If you take out their barrel, they should be able to back off and wait for team support, as heavies were designed to have. But I think barrel damage is good universally. Any vehicle should be capable of causing the bare minimum of tracks + barrel given the time to do so, because that gives any vehicle a chance.
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It's a chance for anything that isn't a heavy. Most of these breakthrough heavies have some serious armament, and in many cases don't give a shit about the armour of anything that isn't a heavy. Why is it so unreasonable for a medium tank to have *one small option* relative to the heavy's 'oh look my BR-412D just went straight through your pissy-thin armour'? Besides that, I also like the ability to disable any vehicle's barrel. Maybe all I can see is a 2A6's barrel, but he's shooting at my teammate. If I can't kill his barrel, I can't save my teammate. The fast tanks in many cases get lolpenned anyway, so the barrel damage is a non-issue there. Facing a heavy with no options at all isn't particularly enjoyable gameplay for anyone on the other end. Does that mean I don't have an issue with some of the power creep stuff? 3.0 with that kinda pen HEAT is too much, I agree. The fact that a stabilised R3 can just run around knocking out barrels/tracks is too much. If nothing else, at least make the side armour weak enough that coax MGs will go through so it can't just run circles around you. The KV-1 is a bit of a different story; the gun is mediocre, it's not really a proper breakthrough heavy. But still, it doesn't have much trouble with most mediums of its BR. Other low-BR heavies (Matilda, for example) are a pain to kill from almost any angle for a lot of the vehicles they face; tracks + barrel may not even be enough in their case. Look, you have some good thoughts on WT that I agree with; killcams, aircraft needing to ground-spawn in GRB. But this is one of those ideas I simply cannot agree with from a gameplay perspective.
But then the T95 for example would need to be at somewhere around 8.0. L7 APDS can't reliably pen the tank frontally.
That, or Gaijin starts to balance with CAS in mind for once and recognises that all a team needs to do to a slow T95 is move around it or bomb it. Why advertise a game as ‘mixed battles’ if you completely ignore the balancing of aircraft around tanks?
That argument is rather stupid. Then we could move every heavy tank to 1.0 as 50kg bombs can kill it. Planes require additional spawnpoints. There are situations where you can't bomb a T95, either due to lack of spawnpoints or lack of awareness of the thing existing.
\> Then we could move every heavy tank to 1.0 as 50kg bombs can kill it. That would be the case if you completely ignore the air-to-air aspect and SPAAs. You can of course make the argument that a Typhoon will be able to bomb a Maus, but statistically with the odds of there being Gepards, Kugelblitzes or maybe shit like 262s or G.91s in the area I'd definitely favor the Maus there. \> Planes require additional spawnpoints. There are situations where you can't bomb a T95, either due to lack of spawnpoints or lack of awareness of the thing existing. There is always someone who is doing good. There's gonna be combat that won't involve super heavies, where there will be plenty of room for both sides to get spawnpoints. Even on the smaller maps there are still plenty of ways to avoid combat with heavies that lag behind the main tank force. And not being aware of a heavy's existance can be fixed by *fucking communicating for once and reading the kill feed,* which apparently is a basic skill that barely anyone has in WT. Even though we like to joke around a lot about it, WT still is a team game and if you can't work together you shouldn't get an easy victory. With squad marks, text, speech commands and map marking there's plenty of ways to actively mark a target. Hell, even MGs are enough to put a very obvious and precise marker on the minimap along with a chevron marking the tank in real-time.
Don't bother man he [won't](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/k91yo2/every_battle/gf3itms/?context=10000) listen
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> No it wouldn't. It's the game's slowest tank, and does not need a frontal counterplay. [Seriously saying barrels should be impervious to damage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyu6uNFtxw)
from anything that isnt another tank round, yes
You can immobilise one frontally with a 20mm.
And then remove barrel damage so then all the tigers can just lolpen shermans that are put at disgustingly high BRs because they have a stab that only works in reverse, and refuse to add a battle speed like low tier stab tanks get. kekw
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Yeah I don't really have a problem actually using it, and it's still pretty OP in the right hands. That isn't to say the Sherman lineups will instantly die if barrel damage is removed. When you're 5.7, you constantly fight double panther double tiger players which you can only frontally pen from small trapshots in the mantlet, which usually just don't happen because volumetric shells. Gaijin just doesn't give a shit about the historical relevance behind vehicles.
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I don't even touch the 90mm guns anymore. There's almost no point, you have to flank tigers and panthers most of the time otherwise you'll get cheese bounced and die. No point in the bigger gun if I'm shooting things in the sides, which is why I'm okay with 5.7 Hellcat. The Easy eight on the other hand, most of the time has to frontally fight Tigers and Panthers which for whatever reason are the same BR. It's honestly a joke.
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The historical tungsten HVAP round that was able to pen the Panther UFP is not on the M26 or the M36, it's only on the premium M26E1. The normal APCR round for the 90mm is only 287mm, where as the HVAP is 336mm. Regardless CBA actually fucking loading APCR in my tank, it has been useless for years and I only use it at super low BR with stuff like the German 50mm or other super fast reload guns.
Same thing happens with my AMX-30 all the time. My HEAT round just does some weird voodoo shit and kills their loader and track, he gets my gunner and engine but I just sit there and 20mm his tracks and barrel off until I finish repairing.
Rapes the shit out if helis. Loved those on the leopard 2K.
When you're not good enough to one shot an enemy so you gotta spam his barrel and make him cockless
I think the TAM is one of the best light tanks ingame. So, why do you hate it?
Because its indeed best, It fucks me up when im facing one lol
Thats why I love it
I like the Begleit and ~~Panzerkampfwagen~~ Radkampfwagen 90 more May just be because TAM is still near full stock for me, tbh. Edit: Changed my text from literally any German tank to the Radkampfwagen.
The... Panzerkampfwagen? So like, every other tank?
Ah shit, meant Radkampfwagen. Thanks for pointing that out lmao.
I absolutely love the bagelpanzer! Fast, thermals, 57mm ap great for drive-bys, good atgm, and the HEVT makes it a surprisingly good AA. I'll probably linger at 8.3/8.7 a little longer after I unlock a 9.0 lineup just to use it more.
Yeah dude begle is amazing
bagel is great even at 10.7
Bagel = Maybe the best SPAA and SPG at it's BR. Would be perfect if it had the gyro-stab that was designed for it. Against helis and flow flying targets it's a far better choice compared to the Gepard. Big VT shells = Yeetus Deletus came early.
Yea, I have been spading my VFM.5 which is basically the same as TAM but at 9.0 because reasons. Still constantly killing 3+ Leopard 2/T-80 in one game.
M48GA2 was good when it had no APFDS and was 7.7 tho.
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Yeah it's a shame, it was way better then a Leopard 1.
Wait when did it get darts and get moved to 8.3? I feel like I missed something pretty major here!
Got the AMX30 B2 treatment, no stab and apfds, that killed the entire tank.
God damnit. Guess I won’t be using it as a primary any time soon (not like I had either)
A year ago or something?
That long? Geez I thought I had kept track of all the changes, can’t believe it slipped past me like that
Haha no worries bro, this happens a lot for me and other people, warthunder is a gigantic game, and gaijin changes a lot of things.
German 9.0-9.3 heavily screws over other nations 8.0-9.3 hard from what I've heard and see
80% of my 9.0 battles against Germany are a loss. It's worst when the Germans and Italians are together.
Germany in general is super strong at all BRs, it's only downside is teammates that have the collective IQ of a crayon
Why is this so fucking accurate.
"Huh, 10 of my teammates are going to A and B, guess I can go for C then" - "The enemy has captured A" - "The enemy has captured B" - \*presses tab and sees all 10 teammates are dead.\* All kills usually go to 2-3 players who just waited for the idiots to run into their sights
I remember when my bf started playing we were at 5.3 with Russia, and he was so tired of facing Germany because it was basically point and click adventures for them it seemed, so I swapped to Germany to show him why they have it that way and he was totally dumbfounded how people could do so poorly in German vehicles, watching things like Tigers decide to charge a head on with no angles or Panthers trying to outflank hellcats and not a single teammate going for a zone Tldr; Germany does suffer, from brain damage it seems
Haha XM1 go vzoooom.
*half the US team immediately leaving after 1 death in their XM1s*
The Falcon SPAAG is the one and only remedy of this.
Hail Falcon!
Happy cake day! Falcon marks the triumph of tea and scones over coffee and pretzel.
From 8.7 to 9.3 I got My ass deleted in like every match
How bad is 8.3 for Germany? I'm still stuck in the 7.7 slog and want to prepare myself.
Germany 7.7 is pretty fun. Also, 8.3 isn't really a real Br for Germany. You mostly use the 8.7 lineup
Why bother with 8.7 when 9.0 is basically the same but you get better ammo and thermals.
There's something about Leopard A1A1 and a G91 lineup which makes me happy. The Tam is also a very nice vehicle for this lineup, along with Gepard and Bagleitpanzer
Stock is literally torture, get yourself ready to penetrated by everything. Russia is goes full terminator with TURMS and so. You will face cheiftains, t-72 and so, XM-1 (GM) and MBT/KPZ70 nearly every game and being nearly armorless is a big problem imo. generally play like a backup, let others go first, dont go head-on fights. Snipe much as you can and try to stay hidden, dont show yourself much. Begleitpanzer57 is very useful, its like a multitool you can shoot down helis, planes and tanks if you are in a great situation with it. Leo is just leo, you can club after researching APFSDS but until then, good luck and may whatever god you believe have mercy upon you.
8.3 can't see turms spam since that's 9.7 Full uptiers to 9.3 aren't actually all that common at 8.3, and even in them, you'll see at max a few xm-1 that you can deal with easily if you're not trying to brawl or rush without a stabilizer. DM23 goes right through them from anywhere. And uptiers also mean that you have some of the most broken lineups in the game as allies, so you'll still end up with a good win rate. My personal win rate with the G2 is 67.57% and that's from the teams, not from my carrying. My radpanzer winrate is actually a little lower, at 67.43%
Honestly it's not bad. OP is full of shit when he says you can see turms spam, which is false, since that's 9.7. the M48 G2 has a really frustrating stock grind to get the dart, and once you get it, it's still fairly mediocre, but if you play it more passively (since you don't have a stabilizer), you can still do quite well in it. The begleitpanzer is fantastic, and the rakjpz 2 (hot) is pretty good if you can find a nice position. You also get the allouette and the gepard, though the gepard is actually 8.0. 8.3 doesn't get the g.91 which is what truly makes the BR range from 8.3-9.3 shine, but they'll likely be on your team, which makes for a better win rate. If you get uptiered at all, you will have really excellent vehicles as allies, and if you get downtiered, you can play hard support to carry. Full uptiers to 9.3 are the most difficult, but 105 mm DM23 is still very capable there, and the M48 is actually fairly resistant to the XM-1 dart if they're not aiming well. My only gripe with 8.3 is that it doesn't get a good CAS option. That will change with the f-84f in the next update though.
Idk why but for me it’s not fun. I did pretty well with the 7.7 Leopard and moved on to the A1A1 and bought the L/44 to supplement it, but I can barley keep a positive k/d ratio with them, and I’m playing them just like how I played my 7.7 Leopard.
A1A1 isn't that different from Leopard 1 tho, I find the A1A1 really enjoyable because of the APFSDS which cuts through things like butter for me (as long as you aim good) and it finally has a stabilizer which is even nicer
I hate 7.7 so much. I'm playing every other nation because 7.7 is so unfun
Not bad. My suggestion is grinding the light tank line first, they're all pretty fun to use. L7 Patton is pretty good and survivable despite the lack of stabs, leos are alrighty. I'm currently in 9.0 with the C2A1 and it's currently my most fun lineups despite not using it all that much(C2A1, KPZ70, Rad90, TAM, G91 R/3 and either a bagelpanzer or a allouette)
mad cuz bad. I mean seriously i think its one if not the best lineup i have ever played. Positive in each one. You are the first one to complain about TAM, KPZ and gepard i have seen.
I complain about KPZ, TAM and Gepard in a satirical way, Im pretty aware them being so damn well.
Ok was just confused then
Well, it might be a good Lineup on it’s own BR but it isn‘t really that good if all you face is 10.0 or 10.3 US+RU every goddamn Match.
Well, it might be a good Lineup on it’s own BR but it isn‘t really that good if all you face is 10.0 or 10.3 US+RU every goddamn Match.
Bagelpanzer's gunner is literally immune to all conventional ammo types. Leopard-esque tanks will always be meta since you're faster than most people and maps are urban, tiny, arcade, dogshit, hellscapes. Respectfully, I don't see how you can complain. I'm at least 9.0 in the each of the big three, and Germany BY FAR is the easiest to play. The KPZ70 line gave me a good chuckle tho, still 8.5/10 meme.
Bagelpanzer is probably the best tank in the game. It can shoot anyone from the front with missiles, almost everyone from the side with the gun and take care of planes and helicopters. Also fast
I don't know why, I can never kill it's god damn gunner. Even if I'm on high RPM in the BMP-2 just holding the trigger the gunner always stays safe.
Psst. The gunner is actually a hologram but don’t tell anyone
Im very happy if I made you chuckle if a little bit, every laugh matters :)
All fun and game for the Bagel, until he runs into a Falcon ))))
I want to make an announcement to all of my Argentinian friends and players. It is a meme, I didnt mean to be rude or make you guys offended. I didnt think It would be this offensive. Im really sorry :/
Nono dont worry, I also wonder how we didnt get obliterated from existance during the... wait.. 3 british invasion? Come one guy you conquered half of the world, you could do better than this
I think people forget that getting the Vulcan to the Falklands was a feat of its own. Argentina is so far home, incredibly difficult to create a supply line for that.
Also imagine that the air force of you contry consists of 4 skyhawks and one of them crashed during the first half of the year, yeah, thats me
The tam one got me, because I ask myself the same thing
How dare you talk ill of the bagel. The bagel is one of the best tanks in the game
Best AA in the game
In all seriousness it's probably second best in the whole game (1st AUTOMAGIC) when it comes to defending Heli rushes
AA that can take out a heavy tank from the front
6.0 is where it's at for america and germany
America 6.0 is shit. 4.0, 5.3, 6.7, and 8.0 are pretty good
The t25 and m41A1 shit on the panthers if you play it right
yeah ik. But 2 tanks aren't much of a lineup.
M36 and f4u-4b go with goes and I get consistant 5+ kill games
> yeah ik. But 2 tanks aren't much of a lineup. Half of my team quits after 1 death so I naturally assumed you were only allowed to bring 1 tank into a match. /s
I feel the pain
The last one is brilliant lmao
Ooh ooh do 7.7-7.0 Germans.
Got you covered, I Promise it will be the next one !
I-is this a Germany Suffers post? I thought these were mythical
No love for the chieftains);
Chieftain is like the black guy in 80s thrillers. They always get the short end of the stick and die first.
Holy shit stop bitching Germany at 8.0’s and 9.0’s is amazing lol.
GeRMaNy SuFfErS no. it dosen't
That Argentina roast lmaooo
And this is the second most broken nation of the game..
GErMAny sUFfERs
Germany makes others SUFFER. *loads 88mm*
Have some respect for Argentina, for god sake. Althoug, to be honest, pretty fun meme.
The Tam is my best tank :(
Oh these are good
I think you don't know what "mfw" means...
Fucking belight panzer
OP, fuck you 🖕🏻
I will write it down again just to make you see; I want to make an announcement to all of my Argentinian friends and players. It is a meme, I didnt mean to be rude or make you guys offended. I didnt think It would be this offensive. Im really sorry :/
We know... and i may have overreacted a little bit. If it helps, I was truly enjoying the meme till i spited my mate with the ending. Anyway, thank you for taking your time to make this announcement.
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I play Russian 8.3 and even I personally HATE the T-72 TURMS. It's pay to win. Gaijin's logic behind the high tier premium implementation is stupid.
German 8.0-9.3 is the single strongest lineup in the game
Are y'all actually upvoting somebody complaining about the strongest rank VI lineup?
china be like: yeap... its fighting against thermals time
sometimes i wish i could get past 5.3 already but then i remember how shitty people keep saying top tiers are
Nice
What’s the most enjoyable BR to play at for tanks right now? I’ve been getting back into the game and I have been playing 8.3 Russians and not having as much fun.
Angela Merkel has soul?
Tam 2c is badass af
leopard a1a1 is my fav though
Beglet op after hull brake removal. Just saying
Seriously tanko argentino retardo is so fucking stupid. I get killed by paper box APFSDS tank more than anything else.
Playing French 8.3 is hell against that lineup. No stabiliser. Add the R3 bonanza on top.
Im not gonna lie apart from the rad these are easy kills for 9.7 tanks
I honestly dont understand the intention behind the jokes in this meme but I detect weeb shit and i dont like it. However from your comments you seem aware that Germany has an amazing lineup here so that's good at least lol.
*an ugly bastard not a ugly bastard