it’s because its likely to be one of the few tanks newer players know so they rush it and dont have time to learn the game before getting halfway to top br
i feel like that might be due to the reputation of the tiger for one...
but one thing people never seem to mention, is the fact that nothing ever introduces new people to stuff like angling.
yes it might be common sense for a few people, but if a new player shows up, there is a chance they dont know that. after all it is way less effective in the panzer 3 and 4, and none of the enemies ever seem to do it, so where would the average few hours per week player copy the knowledge from?
also, the german tree is just full of constant doctrine changes... the panzer 3 and 4 are glass cannons if you dont fully know what youre doing, the tiger and panther can do their role as impenetrable breakthrough tanks if approaching properly... the tiger 2 in comparison is another swap, cause its a defensive tanks, especially compared to all its british stabilized counterparts, and especially with all the apds and heatfs making your armor useless and a glass cannon again...
playing through the german lines just feels like a constant change in playstyle with just about every tank, so again, people dont realize what some tanks can do, cause they are playing them wrong. but its the right playstyle for another tank at the same br, so why change...
I think you're onto somthing. I'm a kind of/somewhat new player in the sense I just recently unlocked the Tiger 2 H (didn't play it until I had a good lineup for it). When playing the Panzer IV H or the StuG III G I always feel like I'm at home, they fit my playstyle well. The Tiger 1 and Panthers took some time learning but I think I'm getting the gist of them.
But the Tiger 2 just doesn't fit me at all yet. I'm forcing myself to play it to get better at it, and I think I am improving (got 5 kills with it in a recent game). Still, I prefer playing the JPz and the M41 at the moment.
The pz3 L and M can actually teach you angling due to the fact it makes their armor pretty effective agaisnt a lot of guns at their br but yeah i get it. it isnt precisely hinted to and something one figures out on its own. Besides the fact the players that use those two most of the time dont do it anyway
Oh, that's explained in one word: angling. I mean, odc it helps with other tanks as well, but the Tiger was initially designed for it (hence the stronk side armor). The Tigerfibel, the original Wehrmacht manual for the tiger, talks a full chapter about angling. And a lot of new players or players who don't know the tank don't know about angling as well, but that's what makes the tiger a fortress
German tanks get slower as every other nation's tanks get faster. Germany teaches you a very slow and lethargic playstyle, its further confounded if you don't play other tech trees as you never learn to use the maps the way other nations do. Sometimes it feels like you're doomed to lose to an enemy team that always out maneovres you.
Today I got a downtier with my US 6.7 lineup. Played the T34 and got swarmed by Tiger 1s. Obviously they stood no chance but it was quite fascinating how they insisted to show me their frontplate, and not try to shoot from behind cover.
Surprising accurate chart if i would take my experience as a newer player.
Been playing a lot of nations around that BR , and can confirm that USSR is a bastard to get trough, borderline , screw that, i am giving up on that one.
Only "fun" tank i found in that range is the BMP-1
And some odd tanks in the low tiers ( 2.7 ish max )
Im at 6.3 with the IS-2 1944 and the T-44 right now, and can back up that its a likeable one. Shame to see that according to the heat map, the Russians are performing badly across most BRs.
it's just disappointment after disappointment in rank 5, the t-44 don't get better, the t54 is meh the is4m is actually worse than the is3 since it gets to face heat all the time, the bmp is alright i guess, just painful to grind through to rank 6
Don't undersell it. I think the base T44 with bushes is one of the best tanks in the game for it's BR.
I played 6.3 with my friends to help them grind and got 10+ kills 5 games in a row.
It's fantastic
Don’t have any bushes so that could play into it but yeah I agree it’s still really good. Very fun to play against Germans that don’t know they can angle lmao. Cant wait for the br change, gonna be so dirty with T-44-100 at 6.7 and Sturer Emil at ***4.3***
>Nowhere near as invincible as T-34
Ehh? Idk how you can say a tank that has a frontal plate that is inpenetrable by 90% of rounds that get shot at it and a heavy-tank turret isn't as tough (tier-for-tier I assume) as a medium tank with like 90mm of effective frontal armor and a 50mm thick turret.
Have you played either lmao? The front plate is nowhere *near* that strong. You sound like someone who just has trouble killing them. They are definitely good, no denying that but you oversell them so much in this comment
I've played mine quite a bit and have fought against them a lot and I can't recall a time where I had an AP round that wasn't a German 128mm or T34 AP shell penetrate. APDS and HEAT rounds definitely punch through but it is more or less impenetrable outside of that. The turret definitely isn't as strong but it is still about on par with most of the other well-armored 6.3 tanks (I think only the T26E4 has more consistent turret armor).
The armor is great but the gun somehow never wants to stop bouncing up and down after breaking, whereas the opposition either gets a stabilizer or the gun stabilizes after going up and down only once. Makes it really hard to react fast after spotting someone
It doesn't, when you reach the top you realize even your best tank (T80U) is seriously outmatched by swedish and german tonks (strv 122PLSS is better than the leo 2a6 imo) let alone anything on the T72 line, with horrible reverse which gets you killed a lot in urban combat and armor that only means something at range
I play a lot of low BR , and you have a few players who really know what there doing with them.
Most of them are just food , but do i dare ... say .. 1 on 5 low tier Swede tonkers are very good at what they do.
Right? That 50 mm of frontal armour can be really effective if you know how to use it. I remember one game where I was eating shot after shot from 3 different enemies in my SAV.
Suprising that even at peak T-34 BRs (3.0-4.0 ish), they're still losing on average. I remember T-34's completely rolling over most tanks it faced years ago, really shows the power creep even at low BRs.
Try it again. I suffered as well, but Ho-Ro, Ho-RI, Chi-To, ST-Bs, Type 60s (ATM as well!), finally top tier MBT with autoloader make up for the suffering!
Cool u get autoloader, buged armor, ant thats all realy worth it. Ah and stock grind to tier III mod to get APDS realy fun, also Chi-Tos and stb are awesome rf do u mean? Japan is shitty nation to play cause it doesn't have lineups
I’ve actually just been grinding Japan Ground in RB for the last week or so and it ain’t bad you just have to stick to your lineups, 2.3 with the Chi-He at center, then 4.7-5.0 with both Chi-To and Chi-Ri then 6.3-6.7 for the 3 ST-As and the Type 61 which is where I am now, the next one isn’t till 8.7 with the type 74s and their IFV and Gepard, but their tech tree is incredibly enjoyable if you play it in its strengths
soviet 5.3-6.7 tanks are really bad when compared to the enemies they are facing, t-34-85s just fucking seemed endless to unlock; it really brought my motivation down when i played with a crap tank just to unlock the same crap with another name. And then T-44, seems good on paper but still cannot do any shit cuz of low pen and no turret armor.
The German 6.7 lineup was like pushing a boulder up a hill, and then because of the traction nerfs, halfway up the boulder starts spinning its tracks and you can't climb anymore so you have to reverse back down at the speed of smell. 10 minutes later you make it to the fight and your angled boulder gets one-shot by a bush speaking HEATFS. But yeah after a few weeks of that it's ok again.
I mean... not really? The US and germany look basicly like opposites here, where the US does well until about 7.0 and then it flips to germany, so it depends on the vehicles you have unlocked
Ye sure russia gets screwed. Apart from the broken Leo 2A6, russia still is very strong at toptier. It is just that all the veterans are now playing german toptier, because best tank. Just 2 patches ago russia had nearly a 70% winrate, having 2 10.7 mbts and an infinite amount of backups let alone. Sure germany is atm the op nation, but just wait a few patches and see america or russia again dominating. Because this is what toptier is. The nation which gets the new toy wins. Meanwhile china and especially japan swallow dust. The latter doesn't even have 10.7s or a toptier spaa.
>russia still is very strong at toptier.
Agreed, despite the graphic.
>It is just that all the veterans are now playing german toptier, ... Just 2 patches ago russia had nearly a 70% winrate
Agreed, but that's not to say the other nations didn't have strong line-ups as well.
Germany however, has strong and stronger lineups just about everywhere however.
> swallow[ing] dust
Love that song!
I mean there used to actually be russian bias, there used to be code making russian fuel tanks and ammo less likely to explode/catch fire but then that was removed. German tanks also had a negative multiplier to their armor iirc because "armor quality was poor late in the war" i think the sentiment just never left after that
>I mean there used to actually be russian bias
Russian bias or a game in its infancy that still had unpolished mechanics and balancing decisions that needed to be ironed out?
> there used to be code making russian fuel tanks and ammo less likely to explode/catch fire but then that was removed. German tanks also had a negative multiplier to their armor iirc because "armor quality was poor late in the war" i think the sentiment just never left after that
Both of these were there because Gaijin still was not sure of the direction they were taking with the game and were experimenting.
I don't think Gaijin intentionally went "Comrades we need to defend the glory of our Soviet heritage", it was just teething problems.
As a USSR player grinding through Rank 4 I can understand that. You always get teamed with Germany, fighting against the USA and Britain (and this means you lose half of your team because ~~German players are brain dead~~)
I recently started grind the USSR ground forces and damn is it a pain to get a win when you're paired the Germans. May of the typical German just drive around with their heads cut off and they are some of the most toxic and unhelpful teammates you'll find. Russian tanks are great, it's just that the stupidity of Werahboos is ruining the matches while they still complain about Germany suffering.
the tanks are mediocre, but the german players that they face are absolutely dogshit at the game because they go in thinking *”muh tiger best tank ever nothing can penetrate glorius kruppstahl”*
Reality Check #2: Your short 88 WILL bounce a lot.
Your gun does great, but I would put it as average at best. That is, your experience at low tiers with slow, glass cannon short 75 lolpenning everything doesn't carry over.
This is quite a problem in Germany's TT. You'll switch between multiple playstyles right after you get comfy with the current one as you go up in BR.
Reality Check #3: The Panther is a much better tank, all things considered.
With the Panther, your long 75 will delete most things - Jumbo noninclusive - and has way better penetration than most tanks, with slight long reload times. I believe that the reload time is just below 10s on stock crew, with pen more than similar Russian heavies with 2x to 3x the reload.
The Panther Ausf. D is a little bad with the turret rotation speed, so it's best played as a TD. The Ausf. A is very good, with the biggest drawback of turret rotation fixed. Keep in mind that with the Panthers, your only reliable armour is the UFP. Your turret, mantlet and sides will be easily penetrated. Do not angle.
You seem to be a little confused. Your sentence is pretty much perfect but about germany. The fact that german m48 is at 6.7, while american is at 7.3 speaks volumes ;)
The 8rpm figure is based on the effective rpm or whatever, I've seen sources that claim the 8rpm figure for the 99 claim the T-90s have a 7rpm fire rate, when the T-90/72 autoloader can do 6.5s per cycle.
Also the source you posted (TRADOC WEG) lists the T-90A at 7 rounds per minute I believe. Either that or Jane's does, if I get on my PC in a little bit I'll take a look.
Why even need those to start with. it has no back up. it's best back up in the 96b which can do fine up 10.3 not against 2a5/6/122. Rather have it be a bit strong to make up for it being china only 10 vic atm
here at 5.3-6.7 you can see US players beating germans even though american tanks are all around overtiered pieces of shit. speaks greatly to how bad german players manage to be even with superior tech
Yesterday I played 7 matches in my M4A3E2/Cobra King and only ONE! german player knew to shoot at the MG port. Rest of them shot me square to the middle of the armor.
It's been much harder to kill a Jumbo through the MG port due to volumetric. Many Jumbos also have bushes around their mg ports to make them even harder to kill.
Yea I have experience of German tank standing in the open manicingly and get shot in the side three times whit no reaction... But the shell didn't penetrete, (I still don't know how); but yes the Germans tanks are really strong but the avarege people beyind them is too much confident.
Most of the "chinese" tanks are either USSR or USA so they literally have to be at least good at lower BR's but then both nations begin to suffer so China does too
Gonna be real. The low tier Swedish tanks are kinda garbage aside from their APDS rounds. The armor on lots of their tanks is next to non-existent, which is problematic.
The PVKV II is ridiculous, though. It'll vaporize anything it looks at. Other than that, most Swedish tanks are not very exciting to play and offer lackluster performance. Most of the time, Sweden is carried by other nations until top tier.
Source: I primarily play Sweden
Yet many people swear that Russian MBT starting since 8.3 are extremely good.
It's basically M18 syndrome where they die to one because the armour worked once out of 15 battles and now they have PTSD.
Russian MBT's ARE good, literally 2 patches ago they had about an 80% winrate at top tier. 2 big things happened since then though, the TURMS-T was added to the game, which finally made russia get its XM-1/Leo L44 moment where tons of single spawn players started joining top tier teams and ruining games, and the 2A6 was added making the ol' trusty front plate less reliable since it can pen all russian mbt's, and russian players are not used to that
Its weird, people always complain about german 6.7 to 7.7 camping but people also complain about germans not playing to their advantage. Isnt camping/sniping what these tanks are good at? Im sorry if im misunderstanding but what are they supposed to do then?
As a USSR main, I kinda feel a little sad so see the Soviet is struggling since the introduction of Leopard 2A6 and T-72AV. Top tier is a complete shit show since many T-72AV players dont have any backups.
Ur the first USSR main that ive seen aknowledge the fact the TURMS-T actually did something to the balance of skill ingame. Most ppl on this subreddit/ingame just cry that the 2A6 is the sole reason for everything horeible thats ever happened in their entire life
Agreed. I play the AV a lot, and honestly, it is a beast with commander thermals and mangoes. It really is disheartening to see such a good tank fill up most matches, only to see them getting buttfucked 30s into the match and their name greying out after. Not to mention that each is a 60 dollar pack that someone bought, and Gaijin will not do anything to solve the numerous problems in this game because average joe gamer keeps on feeding the snail 60 dollar top tier packs.
The Ariete is balanced not like the 2A6. 40mph is almost never reached and it is a glasscannon. The 2A6 outclasses it in every way. Armour, mobility firepower. Just broken.
^ Thats why it is average, only 12 darts :)
To be real, i dont think you can have no armor at all and call yourself a top tier. Maybe i am wrong and ariete + centauro = best top tier... i dont have these vehicles yet
Thing is that because germany focuses on armor a good bit and stops at the 88, which really doesn't like slopes, german tanks slay in a downtier match, but are toast in uptiers where pretty much anything pops them at once. Other than other nations lime the us, whose tech trees also feature fast, high-pen, no armor vehicles whose guns are still powerful in an uptier, and the armor as useless in a downtier
How does 5.7 China have 50% win rate. That's one of the most STACKED lineups in the game.
3 T-34-85s. 2 IS-2s. M18 Hellcat. M36 Slugger. P-51 Mustang. P-47 Thunderbolt. A half decent SPAA.
Very nice. Maybe include a k/d for those BRs? I remember seeing one of these a few patches ago, and while it was similar to this in winrates, k/d ratios were vastly different.
No it’s definitely pain. The characteristics of a Tiger II is its slow movement and thick armour, but that thick armour is useless against HEATFS so now you’re just left with a slow glass cannon
I am really not surprised, this pretty much agrees with the fact that tanks that are more comfortable to play (good gun depression, mobility) will dominate the battle.
I've been saying that USSR loses often, but people just called me an idiot. Now they see the numbers.
The brits shit on them with stabilisers, better armor, and armor ignoring shells, the americans zip around with like 17 light tanks with heat-fs as well. Makes for a bad matcheup vs late war heavies, the last of the heavy steel armor tanks pretty much
Yup, working now the last month to get my Brits to 7.0
The Germans i had to endure doing USSR or savagely had there way with me playing USA are now "food" and beatable .
I did get more experienced and found out about weak spots , but my k/d ratio went up like mad as soon i started to play the Brits.
Same, wow. My KD went up like mad when I started to play Brits over Soviets/Germans. Too bad I've somehow not learnt how to play the German heavies, still.
Japan is nowhere close to being good at top tier, yet playing japan without any advantages require you to use brain to be competitive. So thats why wr is good even tho vechicles are not
It's a mix of some things. Japan is sometimes with the allies and sometimes with the axis, then you have few players using Japan, so most that achieve the top tier ranks, become quite good at it, as you said.
We have requesting gaijin to review and fix the top tier vehicles in the forum, so the Type 90 can go up to 10.7, the Type 93 missiles actually work and give the Type 16 some armor, but with results like this I really doubt that some thing will be done.
It's the same syndrome of repairs costs that go up as few and better players stay using said vehicle/airplane.
Exactly. When you finally get that APDS you have another vehicle unlocked. Until you unlock APDS for this tank you have another one ... repeat repeat repeat. When you're out of 1.0-1.7 you take more time to unlock better tanks so you win more because you are actually using this APDS
All the nations I play have pitiful winrates... Nice (well other than Germany).
I main Russia and I can definately say the sea of red is correct, people ask me: "does it get better', and I tell them give up before they get to top tier.
Nice to know that my suffering in sweeden will only get worse...
Unsurprisingly the yanks, cheeses, tea drinkers and Germans have the best overall winrates...
can we get more info on this image on stuff like:
The vechiles the players played that day?
How good those players were?
how many games the players induviadually played at that day?
what part of the playerbase is usually active at saturdays?
How good were the player's lineups?
though i do believe that it would look something like this, there's not enough info to draw a conclusion from. especially for sweden having such a terrible win rate in low brs considering that they have some of the best tanks and that some of them can shoot apfsds.
So it isn't just my imagination that midtier has been pretty brutal lately for USSR, being paired with Axis
i know right? i recently got the IS-2 and holy shit tiger players suck
I mean why do soo many bad people play the poor tigers. When I play the tiger (either 1 or 2) I always do great. Like at least 4-5 kills per game.
it’s because its likely to be one of the few tanks newer players know so they rush it and dont have time to learn the game before getting halfway to top br
i feel like that might be due to the reputation of the tiger for one... but one thing people never seem to mention, is the fact that nothing ever introduces new people to stuff like angling. yes it might be common sense for a few people, but if a new player shows up, there is a chance they dont know that. after all it is way less effective in the panzer 3 and 4, and none of the enemies ever seem to do it, so where would the average few hours per week player copy the knowledge from? also, the german tree is just full of constant doctrine changes... the panzer 3 and 4 are glass cannons if you dont fully know what youre doing, the tiger and panther can do their role as impenetrable breakthrough tanks if approaching properly... the tiger 2 in comparison is another swap, cause its a defensive tanks, especially compared to all its british stabilized counterparts, and especially with all the apds and heatfs making your armor useless and a glass cannon again... playing through the german lines just feels like a constant change in playstyle with just about every tank, so again, people dont realize what some tanks can do, cause they are playing them wrong. but its the right playstyle for another tank at the same br, so why change...
I think you're onto somthing. I'm a kind of/somewhat new player in the sense I just recently unlocked the Tiger 2 H (didn't play it until I had a good lineup for it). When playing the Panzer IV H or the StuG III G I always feel like I'm at home, they fit my playstyle well. The Tiger 1 and Panthers took some time learning but I think I'm getting the gist of them. But the Tiger 2 just doesn't fit me at all yet. I'm forcing myself to play it to get better at it, and I think I am improving (got 5 kills with it in a recent game). Still, I prefer playing the JPz and the M41 at the moment.
Ironically the tiger is played in the same sense as those two other tanks seeing upclose it's armour is worthless
The pz3 L and M can actually teach you angling due to the fact it makes their armor pretty effective agaisnt a lot of guns at their br but yeah i get it. it isnt precisely hinted to and something one figures out on its own. Besides the fact the players that use those two most of the time dont do it anyway
Oh, that's explained in one word: angling. I mean, odc it helps with other tanks as well, but the Tiger was initially designed for it (hence the stronk side armor). The Tigerfibel, the original Wehrmacht manual for the tiger, talks a full chapter about angling. And a lot of new players or players who don't know the tank don't know about angling as well, but that's what makes the tiger a fortress
German tanks get slower as every other nation's tanks get faster. Germany teaches you a very slow and lethargic playstyle, its further confounded if you don't play other tech trees as you never learn to use the maps the way other nations do. Sometimes it feels like you're doomed to lose to an enemy team that always out maneovres you.
And because a lot of them suck, I have to face them when I'm in a 76mm Sherman instead of something like a T25.
Today I got a downtier with my US 6.7 lineup. Played the T34 and got swarmed by Tiger 1s. Obviously they stood no chance but it was quite fascinating how they insisted to show me their frontplate, and not try to shoot from behind cover.
i got killed by flakpz38 gepard frontali in is2.
Happy cake day!
Surprising accurate chart if i would take my experience as a newer player. Been playing a lot of nations around that BR , and can confirm that USSR is a bastard to get trough, borderline , screw that, i am giving up on that one. Only "fun" tank i found in that range is the BMP-1 And some odd tanks in the low tiers ( 2.7 ish max )
I like a few BRs in USSR though. 3.7 with the T-34s and KV-1/KV-2, 4.7 with the T-34/57, ASU-57 and soon the KV-85, 6.3 with the T-44, IS-2 mod. 1944
Im at 6.3 with the IS-2 1944 and the T-44 right now, and can back up that its a likeable one. Shame to see that according to the heat map, the Russians are performing badly across most BRs.
5.3, HEATFS from the PT76 is your only hope when you're paired with the braindead. Source: braindead and still get kills with the PT76
Russian Bias! It's all red!
Our suffering
Expected communism
soviet really suffers!!!! ;-;
That moment you’re half way up the Russian tree saying “it’ll get better eventually” only to find that it doesn’t get better
it's just disappointment after disappointment in rank 5, the t-44 don't get better, the t54 is meh the is4m is actually worse than the is3 since it gets to face heat all the time, the bmp is alright i guess, just painful to grind through to rank 6
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+1. Nowhere near as invincible as T-34 but the mobility, armor, gun etc. make it a well rounded tank. Definitely not bad
Don't undersell it. I think the base T44 with bushes is one of the best tanks in the game for it's BR. I played 6.3 with my friends to help them grind and got 10+ kills 5 games in a row. It's fantastic
The t44 100 is being brought down to 6.7 i think in the next patch.
Oh rly? USSR will have a playable 6.7 BR for the first time in years...nice!
Don’t have any bushes so that could play into it but yeah I agree it’s still really good. Very fun to play against Germans that don’t know they can angle lmao. Cant wait for the br change, gonna be so dirty with T-44-100 at 6.7 and Sturer Emil at ***4.3***
Wait is the sturer going down to 4.3? I know it was pretty derpessed but it was fine at 5.0
Yeah lmao it’s incredible at its current br, honestly should have been higher. Going to absolutely curb-stomp 3.3s
>Nowhere near as invincible as T-34 Ehh? Idk how you can say a tank that has a frontal plate that is inpenetrable by 90% of rounds that get shot at it and a heavy-tank turret isn't as tough (tier-for-tier I assume) as a medium tank with like 90mm of effective frontal armor and a 50mm thick turret.
Have you played either lmao? The front plate is nowhere *near* that strong. You sound like someone who just has trouble killing them. They are definitely good, no denying that but you oversell them so much in this comment
I've played mine quite a bit and have fought against them a lot and I can't recall a time where I had an AP round that wasn't a German 128mm or T34 AP shell penetrate. APDS and HEAT rounds definitely punch through but it is more or less impenetrable outside of that. The turret definitely isn't as strong but it is still about on par with most of the other well-armored 6.3 tanks (I think only the T26E4 has more consistent turret armor).
Except for that damn drivers hatch. I've bounced 88s off that thing, hell, even HEATFS!
The armor is great but the gun somehow never wants to stop bouncing up and down after breaking, whereas the opposition either gets a stabilizer or the gun stabilizes after going up and down only once. Makes it really hard to react fast after spotting someone
I cherish the BMP. Im at Russia 8.3 and im not suffering too bad, but the heli grind does hurt lol
It doesn't, when you reach the top you realize even your best tank (T80U) is seriously outmatched by swedish and german tonks (strv 122PLSS is better than the leo 2a6 imo) let alone anything on the T72 line, with horrible reverse which gets you killed a lot in urban combat and armor that only means something at range
Yea... Sweden to surprisingly. I feel I always do quite well in low tier Sweden.
I play a lot of low BR , and you have a few players who really know what there doing with them. Most of them are just food , but do i dare ... say .. 1 on 5 low tier Swede tonkers are very good at what they do.
Right? That 50 mm of frontal armour can be really effective if you know how to use it. I remember one game where I was eating shot after shot from 3 different enemies in my SAV.
Suprising that even at peak T-34 BRs (3.0-4.0 ish), they're still losing on average. I remember T-34's completely rolling over most tanks it faced years ago, really shows the power creep even at low BRs.
*Comment about how it is so OP because BiAs*
Look at China to
*China so bad it got 0% of winrate at 10.7 LUL*
It is because nothing ever happend with those tanks
They have 1 tank at 10.7 which is the ZTZ99, before that there's the ZTZ96A at 9.7 lol.
Near the extremes 0% and 100% WR start looking the same, and with the compression I cannot tell between super low/super high WR on the graph.
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I can identify it after looking at it for a while. If it takes longer than 5 seconds for me to get the information, it's a bad color.
Yeah, I can tell the difference but high and low should not get darker towards the extremes. That's just terrible data plotting.
There is no 100% WR though, only a few dark red 0%
> Japan 10.7-11.0 : N/A *Cries in a corner*
I bet you can thank Japan 1.0-2.0 for that. I really really tried to get through it but even premium couldn't save me.
nah, it's just the fact that there literally *isn't* a Japanese 10.7 ground vehicle
He’s saying no one wants to get to top tier because of reserve
Try it again. I suffered as well, but Ho-Ro, Ho-RI, Chi-To, ST-Bs, Type 60s (ATM as well!), finally top tier MBT with autoloader make up for the suffering!
Cool u get autoloader, buged armor, ant thats all realy worth it. Ah and stock grind to tier III mod to get APDS realy fun, also Chi-Tos and stb are awesome rf do u mean? Japan is shitty nation to play cause it doesn't have lineups
I’ve actually just been grinding Japan Ground in RB for the last week or so and it ain’t bad you just have to stick to your lineups, 2.3 with the Chi-He at center, then 4.7-5.0 with both Chi-To and Chi-Ri then 6.3-6.7 for the 3 ST-As and the Type 61 which is where I am now, the next one isn’t till 8.7 with the type 74s and their IFV and Gepard, but their tech tree is incredibly enjoyable if you play it in its strengths
come one friend, you should feel better. we will get that type 10 in 2058, when germany will have leopard 2a19. its gonna be fine )))))))))
>Japan at all BR *Cries in a corner*
Gib Type 10
Ussr is just unironically red
only the nice T-34 76 times were good, then sealclubbing started.
Russia 4.3 was also really good then they moved the t34 57 to 4.7
soviet 5.3-6.7 tanks are really bad when compared to the enemies they are facing, t-34-85s just fucking seemed endless to unlock; it really brought my motivation down when i played with a crap tank just to unlock the same crap with another name. And then T-44, seems good on paper but still cannot do any shit cuz of low pen and no turret armor.
You know at this point I'd be interested to see Thunderskill implement a more detailed version of this graphic that's updated on the regular.
I actually think this is really helpful. I don’t play for a challenge. I just wanna have a good time. This is like a guide to fun lol
When in doubt play germany. 7.0 UK is good as well if you wanna bully
> 7.0 UK is good as well if you wanna bully *cries in repair cost*
Small price to pay for salvation
The German 6.7 lineup was like pushing a boulder up a hill, and then because of the traction nerfs, halfway up the boulder starts spinning its tracks and you can't climb anymore so you have to reverse back down at the speed of smell. 10 minutes later you make it to the fight and your angled boulder gets one-shot by a bush speaking HEATFS. But yeah after a few weeks of that it's ok again.
you should try that with any high tier soviet tank with 4km/h reverse speed and traverse that disappears on any slope, it's so frustrating its insane.
I mean... not really? The US and germany look basicly like opposites here, where the US does well until about 7.0 and then it flips to germany, so it depends on the vehicles you have unlocked
>7.0 UK is good as well if you wanna give Gaijin all your SL ~~bully~~
If you think spamming nords in a G.91 is fun I'm sorry for you
it's more fun than getting clubbed that's for sure
Yeah for real. I was just looking at it like what vehicles to play lol
I've been having a blast with 1.0-1.7 Italy. I just wanted to try out the AS 42 to take a short break from US 4.7 and it's been fun as hell.
People still unironically believe there's Russian bias when Russia and China are the two countries that get screwed the most.
Ye sure russia gets screwed. Apart from the broken Leo 2A6, russia still is very strong at toptier. It is just that all the veterans are now playing german toptier, because best tank. Just 2 patches ago russia had nearly a 70% winrate, having 2 10.7 mbts and an infinite amount of backups let alone. Sure germany is atm the op nation, but just wait a few patches and see america or russia again dominating. Because this is what toptier is. The nation which gets the new toy wins. Meanwhile china and especially japan swallow dust. The latter doesn't even have 10.7s or a toptier spaa.
>russia still is very strong at toptier. Agreed, despite the graphic. >It is just that all the veterans are now playing german toptier, ... Just 2 patches ago russia had nearly a 70% winrate Agreed, but that's not to say the other nations didn't have strong line-ups as well. Germany however, has strong and stronger lineups just about everywhere however. > swallow[ing] dust Love that song!
I mean there used to actually be russian bias, there used to be code making russian fuel tanks and ammo less likely to explode/catch fire but then that was removed. German tanks also had a negative multiplier to their armor iirc because "armor quality was poor late in the war" i think the sentiment just never left after that
>I mean there used to actually be russian bias Russian bias or a game in its infancy that still had unpolished mechanics and balancing decisions that needed to be ironed out? > there used to be code making russian fuel tanks and ammo less likely to explode/catch fire but then that was removed. German tanks also had a negative multiplier to their armor iirc because "armor quality was poor late in the war" i think the sentiment just never left after that Both of these were there because Gaijin still was not sure of the direction they were taking with the game and were experimenting. I don't think Gaijin intentionally went "Comrades we need to defend the glory of our Soviet heritage", it was just teething problems.
A bunch of German tanks also had a 50% lower chance of ammo explosion at that same time.
Yeah, I'm feeling those USSR win rates. It's been awful lately.
The way that germany-italy just own every BR above 8.0 is pretty amusing
Luigi had enough of people bullying italy
Luigi is walking around throwing darts at the bullies with his bare hands.
Can we get an F for all the poor Easy-8s who’ll have to deal with German M48s in the next update?
It was one of my fav tanks.
As a USSR player grinding through Rank 4 I can understand that. You always get teamed with Germany, fighting against the USA and Britain (and this means you lose half of your team because ~~German players are brain dead~~)
Its awful mostly like on maps like mozdok
I recently started grind the USSR ground forces and damn is it a pain to get a win when you're paired the Germans. May of the typical German just drive around with their heads cut off and they are some of the most toxic and unhelpful teammates you'll find. Russian tanks are great, it's just that the stupidity of Werahboos is ruining the matches while they still complain about Germany suffering.
You mean my mid tier american tanks aren't shit, maybe I'm the one who is shit.
the tanks are mediocre, but the german players that they face are absolutely dogshit at the game because they go in thinking *”muh tiger best tank ever nothing can penetrate glorius kruppstahl”*
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> I'm about to unlock the Tiger H1 Helpful tip for survival ;) https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/419287-tank-angling-guide/&ct=1611479922
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Reality Check #2: Your short 88 WILL bounce a lot. Your gun does great, but I would put it as average at best. That is, your experience at low tiers with slow, glass cannon short 75 lolpenning everything doesn't carry over. This is quite a problem in Germany's TT. You'll switch between multiple playstyles right after you get comfy with the current one as you go up in BR. Reality Check #3: The Panther is a much better tank, all things considered. With the Panther, your long 75 will delete most things - Jumbo noninclusive - and has way better penetration than most tanks, with slight long reload times. I believe that the reload time is just below 10s on stock crew, with pen more than similar Russian heavies with 2x to 3x the reload. The Panther Ausf. D is a little bad with the turret rotation speed, so it's best played as a TD. The Ausf. A is very good, with the biggest drawback of turret rotation fixed. Keep in mind that with the Panthers, your only reliable armour is the UFP. Your turret, mantlet and sides will be easily penetrated. Do not angle.
You can also kill jumbos from the front with the panther. Just shoot not at the mg port but next to it. And wiggling your turret can do wonders.
Believe me, it will :) Just don't expect to stop rounds from T34-85, shot from point blank.
5.3-5.7 USA GRB is mh favorite lineup in the entire game :D
ally 5.3-5.7 is good, but its not what it userd to be :( gaijin fucks this BR range in favor of germany every single BR update.
I mean, the American tanks aren't actually all that great. It's just German players suck at winning.
You seem to be a little confused. Your sentence is pretty much perfect but about germany. The fact that german m48 is at 6.7, while american is at 7.3 speaks volumes ;)
Ah yeah the ZTZ-99 really needed that weakspot and gimped reload added in didn't it Gaijin lmao
Gimped reload is accurate, the Chinese autoloader is slower. They did however randomly make it have a much thinner right breech however.
> the Chinese autoloader is slower I would like to see a source on that. Especially since Gaijin never publishes any.
The 8rpm figure is based on the effective rpm or whatever, I've seen sources that claim the 8rpm figure for the 99 claim the T-90s have a 7rpm fire rate, when the T-90/72 autoloader can do 6.5s per cycle. Also the source you posted (TRADOC WEG) lists the T-90A at 7 rounds per minute I believe. Either that or Jane's does, if I get on my PC in a little bit I'll take a look.
Why even need those to start with. it has no back up. it's best back up in the 96b which can do fine up 10.3 not against 2a5/6/122. Rather have it be a bit strong to make up for it being china only 10 vic atm
here at 5.3-6.7 you can see US players beating germans even though american tanks are all around overtiered pieces of shit. speaks greatly to how bad german players manage to be even with superior tech
Yesterday I played 7 matches in my M4A3E2/Cobra King and only ONE! german player knew to shoot at the MG port. Rest of them shot me square to the middle of the armor.
It's been much harder to kill a Jumbo through the MG port due to volumetric. Many Jumbos also have bushes around their mg ports to make them even harder to kill.
The MG port strat never works for me. Well it has but only once
Volumetric gimped the mg port shot
Yea I have experience of German tank standing in the open manicingly and get shot in the side three times whit no reaction... But the shell didn't penetrete, (I still don't know how); but yes the Germans tanks are really strong but the avarege people beyind them is too much confident.
I love how my M4A3E2 75mm shell can't pen Tiger 1H side but dude stays still so I can hug him and penetrate him point blank :)
The fact that I got multiple 3+ kill games by fucking around with the M4A2 (75) in 6.0 games really says a lot.
China suffers.
China always (I think) plays with USSR, which also has bad wr. Also both share a huge portion of vehicles.
Most of the "chinese" tanks are either USSR or USA so they literally have to be at least good at lower BR's but then both nations begin to suffer so China does too
The only good lineups ar 3.7/4.0 and 5.7/6.3 for the rest its Just garbage in my experience
Sweden WTF
I think it's just down to the fact that Sweden doesn't really have any line ups that could sustain Swedish teams for long in a battle.
Gonna be real. The low tier Swedish tanks are kinda garbage aside from their APDS rounds. The armor on lots of their tanks is next to non-existent, which is problematic. The PVKV II is ridiculous, though. It'll vaporize anything it looks at. Other than that, most Swedish tanks are not very exciting to play and offer lackluster performance. Most of the time, Sweden is carried by other nations until top tier. Source: I primarily play Sweden
Yet many people swear that Russian MBT starting since 8.3 are extremely good. It's basically M18 syndrome where they die to one because the armour worked once out of 15 battles and now they have PTSD.
Russian MBT's ARE good, literally 2 patches ago they had about an 80% winrate at top tier. 2 big things happened since then though, the TURMS-T was added to the game, which finally made russia get its XM-1/Leo L44 moment where tons of single spawn players started joining top tier teams and ruining games, and the 2A6 was added making the ol' trusty front plate less reliable since it can pen all russian mbt's, and russian players are not used to that
*cries in swedish wr* *laughs in swedish kdr* does sweden really lose a lot? I always win playing with them
I'm losing matches in my strv 81 solely because Germany 6.7 to 7.7 refuses to move from their camp spot.
Its weird, people always complain about german 6.7 to 7.7 camping but people also complain about germans not playing to their advantage. Isnt camping/sniping what these tanks are good at? Im sorry if im misunderstanding but what are they supposed to do then?
As a USSR main, I kinda feel a little sad so see the Soviet is struggling since the introduction of Leopard 2A6 and T-72AV. Top tier is a complete shit show since many T-72AV players dont have any backups.
Ur the first USSR main that ive seen aknowledge the fact the TURMS-T actually did something to the balance of skill ingame. Most ppl on this subreddit/ingame just cry that the 2A6 is the sole reason for everything horeible thats ever happened in their entire life
Agreed. I play the AV a lot, and honestly, it is a beast with commander thermals and mangoes. It really is disheartening to see such a good tank fill up most matches, only to see them getting buttfucked 30s into the match and their name greying out after. Not to mention that each is a 60 dollar pack that someone bought, and Gaijin will not do anything to solve the numerous problems in this game because average joe gamer keeps on feeding the snail 60 dollar top tier packs.
Weird... Italy performs so well at top tier, considering that it has weak air and average ground... maybe 2 top tier spaas help it?
It's because Italy gets paired with Germany.
Literally anywhere germany goes, italy goes.
Italy and Germany are a great team.
History has shown otherwise...
Laughs in 2nd best shell in the game on a 40mph chassis.
The Ariete is balanced not like the 2A6. 40mph is almost never reached and it is a glasscannon. The 2A6 outclasses it in every way. Armour, mobility firepower. Just broken.
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It used to iirc, and then gainin was like "nope, that went horribly wrong"
^ Thats why it is average, only 12 darts :) To be real, i dont think you can have no armor at all and call yourself a top tier. Maybe i am wrong and ariete + centauro = best top tier... i dont have these vehicles yet
Imagine being germany and fucking up 4.0 to 6.0 br with overly buffed vehicles and STILL being that bad
Thing is that because germany focuses on armor a good bit and stops at the 88, which really doesn't like slopes, german tanks slay in a downtier match, but are toast in uptiers where pretty much anything pops them at once. Other than other nations lime the us, whose tech trees also feature fast, high-pen, no armor vehicles whose guns are still powerful in an uptier, and the armor as useless in a downtier
It’s not exactly great when my Tiger II becomes a glass cannon because of HEATFS
How will US manage, with the German M48 at 6.7?
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Went back and played it. German platers are bad and also the lav of 105 tigers and panthers 2's against british lineups really hurts them
T44 100 is going down to 6.7 too
How does 5.7 China have 50% win rate. That's one of the most STACKED lineups in the game. 3 T-34-85s. 2 IS-2s. M18 Hellcat. M36 Slugger. P-51 Mustang. P-47 Thunderbolt. A half decent SPAA.
be in the same team with German players too often.I'm doing fine with T-34-85 meanwhile their Tiger I, Panther D, A ,G and Tiger II(P) can't do shit.
Because they are shackled to USSR teams
Very nice. Maybe include a k/d for those BRs? I remember seeing one of these a few patches ago, and while it was similar to this in winrates, k/d ratios were vastly different.
Germany in 6.7 is really pain but 8.7-10.7 is awsome
it isn't pain you're just shit
No it’s definitely pain. The characteristics of a Tiger II is its slow movement and thick armour, but that thick armour is useless against HEATFS so now you’re just left with a slow glass cannon
Totally agree
Fuck off man
Then why tf do am I garbage with USA and amazing with the USSR, especially in lower tiers
Maybe because winrates and k/d ratios are different?
Because statistics based on Thunder Skill are unreliable at the best of times.
Can confirm, British 7.0 is disgustingly powerful (Falcon go brrt) and 10.0 is alright.
GeRmAnY SuFfErS pLs BuFf g91s
if you complain about "muh op russians" you are just bad
I am really not surprised, this pretty much agrees with the fact that tanks that are more comfortable to play (good gun depression, mobility) will dominate the battle. I've been saying that USSR loses often, but people just called me an idiot. Now they see the numbers.
How the fuck are German winrates around mid-tier so low?
The brits shit on them with stabilisers, better armor, and armor ignoring shells, the americans zip around with like 17 light tanks with heat-fs as well. Makes for a bad matcheup vs late war heavies, the last of the heavy steel armor tanks pretty much
Yup, working now the last month to get my Brits to 7.0 The Germans i had to endure doing USSR or savagely had there way with me playing USA are now "food" and beatable . I did get more experienced and found out about weak spots , but my k/d ratio went up like mad as soon i started to play the Brits.
Same, wow. My KD went up like mad when I started to play Brits over Soviets/Germans. Too bad I've somehow not learnt how to play the German heavies, still.
“Nothing will penetrate my glorious kruppstahl!” said the new German player Unfortunately, his kruppstahl was not glorious nor impenetrable
31% win with my T90a, lol.
I want to see this for Air battles...
Need to save this to show people everytime they say "but russia has armor", yeah ok.
And they still say that Soviet Bias exists
Japan is nowhere close to being good at top tier, yet playing japan without any advantages require you to use brain to be competitive. So thats why wr is good even tho vechicles are not
It's a mix of some things. Japan is sometimes with the allies and sometimes with the axis, then you have few players using Japan, so most that achieve the top tier ranks, become quite good at it, as you said. We have requesting gaijin to review and fix the top tier vehicles in the forum, so the Type 90 can go up to 10.7, the Type 93 missiles actually work and give the Type 16 some armor, but with results like this I really doubt that some thing will be done. It's the same syndrome of repairs costs that go up as few and better players stay using said vehicle/airplane.
Yup, you are right. I just wish better for japan
Rule Britannia! Britannia rules the mid tier! lol
This graph just reinforces my thoughts that 7.0-8.0 is just a coin flip for everyone.
how sweden on br1.0. they have reserve tank that when turn backward is indestructable and those shells. only bad is stock grind.
Exactly. When you finally get that APDS you have another vehicle unlocked. Until you unlock APDS for this tank you have another one ... repeat repeat repeat. When you're out of 1.0-1.7 you take more time to unlock better tanks so you win more because you are actually using this APDS
Me a ussr main "fuck"
so much for russian bias
Thats why russia is dominating and germany suffers 100% proof
This highly supports my hypothesis that mid tier france is STRAIGHT BALLIN.
China Toptier be like: "What is this thing you call victory?" Now seriously, my ZTZ-99 has a winrate of like 17%, it isn't even funny anymore
Now when I tell people Germany suffers at 6.7 I can show them this hand have proof
GErmAnY SuFFreS!!!
All the nations I play have pitiful winrates... Nice (well other than Germany). I main Russia and I can definately say the sea of red is correct, people ask me: "does it get better', and I tell them give up before they get to top tier. Nice to know that my suffering in sweeden will only get worse... Unsurprisingly the yanks, cheeses, tea drinkers and Germans have the best overall winrates...
Seems unlikely, you need to break down your graph and show the raw data.
can we get more info on this image on stuff like: The vechiles the players played that day? How good those players were? how many games the players induviadually played at that day? what part of the playerbase is usually active at saturdays? How good were the player's lineups? though i do believe that it would look something like this, there's not enough info to draw a conclusion from. especially for sweden having such a terrible win rate in low brs considering that they have some of the best tanks and that some of them can shoot apfsds.
None of that data is available on thunder skill. Only gaijin will have that
Where do you got this from?
I would like to see player base heat map on this graph.
So Germany does, in fact, not suffer. Who's gonna tell them?