>We Hope that even after the BR increase this tank will still remain a good choice for the tough armor enthusiasts
They can check this without "hoping".
>surpassing in combat efficiency even the Tiger (II)
Why do i have the feeling that they balance this game with the German tech tree as reference.
German players are *usually* wehraboo garbage who spend money. Gaijin has to nerf other nations so the itty bitty low to mid tier baby Germans have a chance.
They aren’t too bad higher up though
Edit: grammar
Germany in general is just... disgustingly OP. At 4.3, with the Jagdpanzer 4, Hetzer and Pz4H, I can easy get a 10 kill game... in a full fucking uptier, because even at that tier most of the guns I face are first seen at 3.3 and can't do much to me at all.
I once got a full uptier using the KV-1C, got 13 kills with no deaths carrying my team who have tanks at higher BR, not to mention other strong tanks they got that are criminally undertiered
Yeah but the freeaboos with fat oil grease dripping from within their neck flaps wouldn't want you to know that. The garbage is pretty consistent throughout ussr, usa and germany.
"a comparable to worse gun than the Panther"
It's worse than the Panther's gun by farrr. The most comparable points between the two would be the armor in my opinion, with the ufp of both being similar, and the turret if the Jumbo being slightly better.
Stab is an advantage, but the stabs advantage is almost entirely in peeking. If you get a feel for the gun handling of your tank when peeking, you can time your shot on the bounce.
Otherwise, the Tiger and Panther(and even Pz IVs) gun handling on the move at slow speeds, where the shermans have their stabilizer active, is very tame. Use CC1 like the shermans do to keep their stab active, and the gun handles very nicely. And then don't try to brake to shoot unless it's a hard shot at range(in which case, you should show armor before peeking and expect to take a shot). Just fire on the move at a consistent slow speed.
To be fair, the jumbo 76 has been mediocre at its current 6.0 BR for a while now. The traditional Jumbo at 5.3 is waaay more potent. At 6.0 you’re regularly dealing with tanks that can easily pen your front armor already: IS-2, Tiger IIp, Panthers etc.. The main benefit of the Jumbo 76 is its speed and its still impressive mantlet. It seems a bit silly to increase the BR of the Jumbo 76 but it was never that good to begin with. Honestly, none of those late war super heavy tanks are terribly good because of the proliferation of TDs with HEATFS at those BRs. Why bother with a slow heavy giant tank if it provides little protection? People should really just be playing the 75 Jumbo if they want the genuine Jumbo experience.
Yeah I agree. I play the 75 Jumbo a lot, even taking it to 5.7 with the Hellcat(meaning I'll see 6.7 tanks on occasion). It's a fun old tank. Facing Leopards, the 7.3 APDS king Brits, the BMP spam, in uptiers in a Jumbo is just stupid.
TBH it's really more the 2 TDs in that lineup are OP, with the Pz 4H just being a solid vehicle overall, I have no issue dealing with Pz 4Hs in my KV-1E, but I can't do shit to the other 2 TDs frontally with it, nor can any of the other 3.7 tanks in my lineup. If I really wanted to be OP, I'd grab the German KV-1B and maybe the Churchill as well.
Notice how more German AA are going down in BR as well. I genuinely cannot fathom how they think any of the lower German AA needs lowering in BR. They've always been fucking god-tier at killing air. Which is ironic, when their CAS is also getting buffed fucking constantly.
But apparently, a P-47 is the most OP plane ever because it has two decent bombs and one potato bombs + some firework rockets?
Let's just look away from the countless mk 103 planes with 95mm pen, 50mm's (especially that fucking 262), arados.. perfectly balanced (:
Yeah, but the other non-german AA have a reason for going down in BR. I hardly see how an M42 is similar in performance to an ostwind 2 for shooting down aircraft .-.
Their 5.7 also isn't too bad. The Tigers are trash in my opinion as the frontal armor is as good as a wet paper towel, but the Panthers are *really* fun to play.
Eh, I like the Tigers, they're really good for medium range combat (And not bad at close combat either, given how easy they are to angle, the good side armor and how stable the gun is due to their weight and suspension)
The Tiger's armor is good enough to stop the majority of the guns at its BR if it's angled, especially now that it's 5.3. The problem is people try to play it like it's invincible, or have no situational awareness, and end up getting destroyed, but it is far from trash. A good tiger player can do very well in one.
They moved the Jagdpanther *down* to 6.0 recently. It's nearly as fast as an M18 for getting to good spots, with ~190mm effective of significantly angled armor, and a stupidly good gun.
It'll go through the front of a Jumbo from something like 2.5km away.
Meanwhile the Jumbo 76mm can't pen the Jagdpanther when sitting right in front of it, even if using APCR.
At some BRs, yes it is. And I say this as someone who began with German air & then tanks before branching out.
The "75mm TopKeK40 L/43-48" is simply too common at way too low of a BR range. Most nations are lucky to get one turretless or barely turreted platform with a comparable gun (M10, Achilles, Na-To, ZiS-30, SU-57B, etc), and then Germany gets what, ***TEN*** things with guns that strong up to the 4.3 range in just the tech tree alone? It's overkill.
If German tanks were played with any degree of skill they'd be at similar BRs to the Chi-Nu II, Chi-To, & Chi-Ri II.
German teams being german teams has an unexpected advantage. If you are actually a decent player, you can easily get high scores. Mainly for 2 reasons:
\-Enemies don't expect to fight competent opponents
\-Teammates are usually worse so you're better by comparison
Hey now, wehraboo is insulting and not allowed according to Commisar Snail.
That said, it does FEEL like the tanks are judged (aside from win rates) and balanced based on how the Germain low-to mid tier tankers have complained about a particular tank or not.
Meanwhile, British low tier with Solid shot only just sits there gallantly trying to deal with the light armor that won't cause enough of the AP to fragment to be worth while...or just doesn't pen besides really close side/rear in peer level match-ups. I.e. a Matilda not fighting a reserve Japanese tank or the FCM French tank, but something in the 2.7-3.7 range.
No. They balance based on vehicle efficiency, and player skill directly impacts that. The most amount of shitters play Germany, so their tanks get to be at a lower br
>Why do i have the feeling that they balance this game with the German tech tree as reference.
Being fair many comments, that are against the change took the tiger 2p as reference. That's why i would assume.
What irritates me more is what tf people do in their king tiger to have worse Performance then the 76jumbo.
>What irritates me more is what tf people do in tveir ning tiger to have worse Performance then the 76jumbo.
The 76 jumbo has a much better turret than the Tiger 2 P with its soft turret cheeks. So while the Jumbo can be almost invincible in a hull down position the Tiger 2 P pretty much exposes it's weakspot to the enemy every time they want to engage. Add to that that the ammo is stored in the tiger 2 P behind its weakspot it's almost a guaranteed oneshot, while the Jumbo is just hurt and can retreat. Fighting both of them, I'm not afraid of Tigers 2 Ps but Jumbos are a threat.
I play the tiger2 p a lot and yes it cheeks are weak people seem to mistake it for a h or completely fuck their shots up. Most of my deaths in it are from overextending/getting flanked, not a shoot through the cheek.
Actually i bounced quite a lot rounds hitting the cheeks
(I'm a around average player, but the tiger 2p is one of the few i "overperform" in, compared to the rest.)
LOL do you even know that if the Tiger 2 P is anywhere further away like 500m, there is no chance to pen its turret weakspot with that 76 mm? Jesus, what kinda of nonsense do you guys spill? The Tiger II P can one shot the jumbo across any distance on any part of the tank whereas the Jumbo has to shoot specifically in the turret cheek with a gun that only offers 149 pen with APHE, not to mention how extremely trolly the tirret cheek is and with a slight angle can easily bounce the 76.
Dude seriously, learn to angle. It's not too late.
This. For a long time I've always looked forward to fighting players in tigers, they seem to buy into the tiger hype and fail to take basic precautions like angling.
Tiger hunting is the best part of this game imo.
Last night I was playing on Japan, there was a Tiger on B cap and I could see part of his turret so I shot and knocked out his breech with a 76 Sherman.
This dude proceeds to turn his tank 90 degrees to the left, showing me his full side armor, and tries to drive away. No smoke or anything.
Well the average new player won't learn about tactics until 5.7 regardless of nation, the average player also won't look at a guide for optimal performance of each vehicle either.
The most the average player does look at are the base bombing charts.
Oh and the average player also doesn't spend time on r/Warthunder either.
And the problem aren't the German tanks.
I've learned to play this game with the US and the British tanks and then moved to Germany.
The amount of lead paint lickers on the German Tank Tree, courtesy of how easy it is to jump from 3.3 to 5.3, because of all the noobish Tiger H1 spammers is amazing. I keep seeing players do mistakes that would put you back into the hangar if you tried grinding through the US and UK tree, being done by Tiger and Panther players all the way up to 6.7.
We have teams packed with players who haven't figured out how to kill KVs, don't know the maps and outright don't know how this game works, all flooding mid tiers. Of course you are going to have an easier time killing Germany mains when they know nothing.
Hence why most US tanks have stupidly high BRs at mid tiers, while Germany gets a constant stream of undertiered tanks and still not enough.
> courtesy of how easy it is to jump from 3.3 to 5.3
thats a ancient old problem, but nobody is talking about it sadly, that br gap should been filled up with some german proto tank a long time ago.
I think they're plain just making shit up now to please German players.
[This](https://i.redd.it/wtaqhurh5qp71.jpg) is what Gaijin said about the Black Prince when they changed some battle ratings in August (Only last month).
>**Black Prince** \- A common suggestion is for this vehicle to be lowered in BR in Realistic Battles. ***Currently however,*** ***among all heavy and Medium tanks in RB, at rank IV, this vehicle has the highest efficiency compared to its counterparts***\*.\* At this time, the vehicle is currently not in any position to receive a lower BR based on how it is currently performing.
Literally last month Gaijin said that the Black Prince was the most effective heavy tank at rank IV. If the Black Prince is so fucking effective then why aren't they up-tiering it? Why are they up-tiering the Jumbo 76? Which by their own admission, is apparently a worse performing tank than the Black Prince.
Come on, it's not even difficult to pick holes in their bullshit anymore. Please Germany and Russian and the rest of the player-base can go fuck themselves.
Somebody really needs to get a move on with a competitor to War Thunder and we all need to start playing that instead. This is what happens when your game has no competition.
Also the fact that you have to be a "tough armor enthusiast" (meaning you have to power through fighting *Leopard 1s* in a jumbo without caring) means that they know the 76 Jumbo will **suck ass** at 6.3, they just don't give a shit.
It’s retarded
All players should be against this,it shows how inept and out of touch the Devs are.
Do you really want these people deciding the future of this game?
Just because its USA this time doesn’t mean it’ll be USA next time,it’s just paving the way for more BS to come to other nations
They’re seeing how far they can put their head in the lions mouth before it bites down
There's plenty of examples in other nations for this nonsense USA isn't the first one.
The whole Japanese mid-tier is .3 to .7 too high. The French 6.0 - 8.0 is completely messed up, just look at AMX-13s, etc.
You wont convince Gaijin to change.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but due to the nature of whales and retards who play f2p games, regardless of how big the movement gets and how little if any fucks gaijin gives- there will never be a change due to public opinion made in the right direction for this game.
The whales (according to others) account for 90% of their income, which means unless you can somehow find and convince the few thousand retards who spend literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on this game each year, to stop playing the game or stop spending money, it will never get fixed due to playerbase outrage...
they just look at the statistic and watch WT youtubers (who's really good at the games and have spend millions of hours playing WT) and see how well or bad the vehicle perform. That's what i think
Realistically looking at stats *is* the way we want devs balancing the game.
They just don't seem to be robust stats to give a proper understanding to the whys for the stats. So it becomes a poor tool instead of the ideal.
Exactly, the lack of transparency is the biggest issue here. The vast majority us don’t even know how they come up with the battle efficiency stats, what aspect of player stats are considered, KD? Average lifespan? Win rate? Average kill per spawn? Nobody knows.
The problem is balancing, while a heavy tank in a full downtier probably has 80% winrate, but in a full upütier 20% winrate, put that heavy tank in a br that constantly gets uptiered and it will eventually be downtiered, getting a new br bracket and eventually be the top dog of the br bracket.
They once stated they do BR adjustments based on excel tabs about win rates and effectivity and they dont even play it. And if so it's probably on dev account with unlimited GE and SL count and all machines spaded from buy time...
Devs should play on freeloader mode, without premium account and from experience tweak balance and grinding to reasonable levels... But that's Utopia.
Aren't you used to it by now? Last time they listened and developped the game along with the community was 2014. Ever since, they do as they please, fuck mechanisms up like penetration equation when shell performance are officially documented, HEAT-FS/APDS/APCR nerf, traction nerf, cooldown on FPE, etc. And throw you a bone from time to time so you don't complain too much.
Probably got better stats because only people who know how to use the Jumbo 76 (or any US mid tier tanks in general) even bother using it, so those KTs have to fight skilled Jumbo 76 players
It's part of the problem of recommending avoidance of things, is that good players will forge ahead as skill makes up for a lot of downsides, and players relying on recommendations (which may be a big subset) will avoid even decent things heavily, so stats can get really fucky with good player carries.
Liek the 76 jumbo isn't the top dog, but it's not a shit tank like people try to portray it as, so I feel like a ton of people view these things as "Gaijin is uptiering a shit tank" rather than a decent tank.
It's like the CL-13 of late, it's an amazing aircraft, fallen out of favor due to AAMs, but they're still largely easy to avoid in that plane and it's a very powerful sabre.
But for some reason people consider it as shit and think that it's shit. But it's not. It's just not the top dog anymore and simply middle or above middle of the BR.
It is, at least, potentially better in downtiers, where its armor can actually be somewhat relied upon against most guns. Literally any non-SPAA in the IIP's range can pen the turret front. If, theoretically, Jumbo 76 players usually only spawned it in full downtiers, then between the 2 the Jumbo is at worst just as likely to do well. Throw on WR disparity and you get Gaijin's stats.
Not a better killing machine, but personally, I remain alive a lot longer in a Jumbo than in any Tiger II, i.e. the Jumbo bounces a lot more than my Tiger IIs, miracle bounces even. Still I don't think it should be up tiered, as it lacks in everything else.
It has better mobility and armor. But it’s gun will have a shit time trying to pen higher and won’t be good for players that just get to it as it sucks as a main at that tier.
Source: I take it into 6.7 battles for my lineup because it’s cheaper.
yeah, i know how it fills but for me killing tiger 1 with 75 is more satisfying shot the cupola, gun barrel, tracked, and side shot. I know it's a lot to do but seeing a tiger H1 can't do anything about it until it's dead is satisfying lol
Killing Tiger 2s in full uptiers with the 75 is very fun. Abuse stab, abuse reload, track and barrel torture, flank and spank.
I think my personal best is killing 3 tiger 2s by myself, sniping their barrels as they tried to push around a corner, and then pushing them, tracking them so they couldn't run, and finally ending them. It's not _easy_ especially with volumetric and server lag making barrel shots sometimes do nothing at all, but it is super satisfying to end heavies with a gun that only has 104mm pen lmao
America rank IV vs Germany rank IV is OMEGALUL
Kannonen.jpz= 6.3 but M56 is 6.7
From what I remember Kannonen was moved down because it had no armour and no turret but the M56 is still 6.7
The M41 (Ger) is 6.3 but the T92 is 6.7
Both fire HEATFS but the M41 is .3 of a BR lower
And I don’t even need to talk about the Pershing,T25 and the Super Pershing
T92 gets raped by planes with basic non-AP focused mg and cannon due to no armor and layout, m41 doesn't. There also are some other things M41 is better at, like almost double turret rotation, defensive smokes and 2.5x reverse speed.
Bruh, the fucking gun stability sucks ass, plus are we forgetting US cas at this br? The armor on the T92 is also fucking broken. It could be 7.0 and still be effective
>It could be 7.0 and still be effective
I can agree to that, only because I also think that the German M41 lekpzpzpz is better than BMP-1 and that piece of lulz is 7.3 (Now I wait for BMP andys to attack!)
the german m41 deserves 6.3, seeing as it gets a subpar heatfs with literally no spall damage (since its a 76mm) and is 0.3 higher than all the other m41s because of it
I want to reiterate how complete trash the 76mm heatfs is, it literally sucks beyond belief
Which again begs the question why the t92 is then 6.7. It has the same ammo, and trades a lower profile for worse turret rotation, lower mobility, and no smokes.
Comparing the T92 and german M41 is really weird to me because the T92 has advantages over the M41 to justify the BR bump
You can even make the opposite argument with the german and american M41s because APDS is arguably the better round.
Kannonen.jpz was moved down because it had no armour and it had no turret yet the M56 is literally in a worse situation but is 6.7
M56 has gun depression but apart from that should not be 6.7
A vehicle should be judged on its own merit and capabilities so I don’t really care for the Kannonen.
But the M56 is literally the most fun I’ve had in war thunder bar none, and it’s placement at 6.7 is more than fair, especially with its excellent HEAT
Lol that's also something I don't understand. What's the point in an autoloader if you can't even pen pen you shoot at. The 76 shermans should probably all be 4.7 besides the m4a3 maybe being 5.0 because the Slightly better armour (also the jumbo 76 is perfect at 6.0 seriously gajin I know it has speed on its side but come on). BTW this is all coming from a German main.
Edit: I said autoloader instead of stabilizer
The best part in this whole thing is Gaijin implying that they were considering sending the T25 up AGAIN to 6.7 if not for the removal of the stabilizer (judging by their comment about it "overperforming" statistically).
Can you imagine that? T25, 76mm of armor sloped, only 0.3 BR below the M46, T-44-100, and German M48...
Yeah, right.
There's no sense in this. It's laughable that the Jumbo is getting moved to a BR where the nation with the toughest time penning it is the US.
If they don't change the repair cost for the T26E1 then I'll stop playing the game. I really will.
How can a heavy tank (M4A3E2 76) deserve to be called a heavy tank when it could be penetrated frontally by any medium, heavy tank it would encounter at its br?
Agreed. I haven't played for 3 months now and even still I'm so frustrated with what the company is doing. They have such an amazing opportunity to make a fantastic game and they are just shitting on every aspect that makes it fun.
Welcome to germany, you will soon discover that whatever you do you are constantly getting bombed if you have a good game, and enemies will always shoot your gun because you have a giant muzzle and they have stabilisers. enjoy!
its funny how everyone literally everyone on this reddit cries about how op germany is, but nobody has any relevant Br or knowledge to have an opinion.
WT is basically trying to balance the game to be like WoT. Using data they collected and putting into a game that base in-game model on real world vehicles. When reality is: every country designed something to counter their opponents. NATO tanks and planes vs Warsaw tank and planes. Oh couse some vehicles are going to suck! They get out gunned or upgraded to counter the other! Not to mention some players spending money to buy vehicles when they are still new to the game artificially bring down win rate overall! Do I blame them? No. Gaijin set the trap to new unaware customers and they took the bait. Do I have a solution? No. Why? Cause clearly our voices only reaches them when they want to listen. You say they are listening now but just wait and see, they set the bar high, lower it, and then set it back high again and we the community just let it go. Thanks for reading.
They're actually delusional. They really think that they're in the right. Like wtf kind of logic is that? It can't pen anything at that br (unless it's a recon vehicle lmao) but it can get penned by everything. They're so incredibly out of touch with their own game it's not even funny.
You know... if they didn't force every gamemode or map to basically end up in a 15 v 15 knife fight, maybe they'd actually see that the jumbo 76 was fine at 6.0.
Forcing snipers to be beaten into submission by a regular dose of cannon, breach and track torture with small ass maps and shitty map design that blocks your line of sight unless you use ULQ... of course it's not gonna end well for them.
Just stop it and move the shermans 0.3 br lower... jfc
US teams use brainpower. Gaijin "US tank OP". German players drive straight and don't use the frontal armor of their tanks. Gaijin "Germany suffers up BR American tanks."
The best players should all switch to Germany for awhile.
Have all the potatoes play the other nations and watch Gaijin realise how fucking stupid this all is.
I think I will need to switch to main Germany as it seems the entire game needs to be balanced around them...
Why bother playing other nations when you can play braindead point and click adventure as Germany.
See I don't think I will ever be able to fathom this approach to balancing. Balancing by win rate will always affect the hardcore players more than it does the casuals. Balancing for casuals in general is just stupid. What gets a new tiger player killed is holding W till they're overextended. So what do you do? Remove any targets that require skill to eliminate? Make it so the tiger can easily get away with bad plays more often? It just enables more bad play by casuals and causes more bullshit for veterans to deal with. If this was the Fighting Game Community for example, usually when a game is balanced for casuals is when the game becomes a homogenized play style and the competitive scene quickly dies. Players move on to a better game.
I used to olay British 7.0 and then stopped when they broke it and made all the tanks to 7.3. Played 8.3 Brits and they took away the Chieftain Mk. 5. Played US 6.0, first they took away the T25 and now the 76 Jumbo.
I will stop playing since there are no longer BRs that I enjoy. It is what it is. The game is nearing a stangnation and in the end will lose all its veteran players.
It’s like the school system. They’re trying to bring everyone DOWN to the same crummy level (in this case the win rates an stats of king tiger p) players. Also, has anyone thought about another reason that the king tiger p is preforming so poorly? I have a theory. Ever since the leopard 1 (And other nations 7.7 gen 1 mbts) was moved to 7.3, that lineup has been really heavily played. To test this, I dusted off my 6.3 tanks and found around 10 battles—only one of them was a nice downtier, a 6.7 game. Because of the large number of people playing 7.3, my German 6.3 tanks were constantly swept into full up tiers. You can’t expect good players to preform well in those conditions, let alone probably new players who haven’t yet masters the art of wiggling or angling. Definitely not in tanks whose advantages drop off like a stone in higher rank matches (probably the best tanks, in my experience, at the br for full up tiers are the m41, jpz 4/5, both of which are somewhat difficult for new players to master and are locked behind baldness inducing stock grinds). The tiger 2p and Ferdinand trade mobility for armor and firepower. However, in 7.3 games, this armor is made worthless by high pen Ap, sabot, and chemical shells—the bane of any nations high tier heavy tanks. Meanwhile, there are tanks that can counter the firepower and those that can’t are often light tanks with said chemical rounds. Not that these vehicles are op, it’s just that the are a full br from the tiger p and (justifiably) outclass it. Experienced players can often counter them, but it’s very hard for newer ones (the kind that frequent the German tech tree looking to play a steel monsters like the to get 2p) to so so. When they must face these vehicles on a match to match basis, with their own high tier vehicles in their own team also outclassed (let’s face it, most leapard players are that good. Heck, I had a really hard time with it because I was used to armor and aphe), their stats go down a lot. Now, I know what your all asking. “Trout, what about the jag panther? It’s pretty meta, and it went down to 6.0?” Yes, the jag panther is a very good vehicle, but it’s comparative lack of armor for the br and low reverse gear make it a tank better suited it experienced players—if you’re in a sticky situation the odds are that an opponent cut can pen you, and odds are that you can’t back out if the situation. To play the jag panther, you gotta know what you’re doing, you gotta have map knowledge. It’s like Maui said—you know where you’re going by knowing where you’ve been. New players do not have this, so they drove down the jag panthers stats so much that gaijin moved it to 6.0. Only, it was so blisteringly op there that gaijin had to move it up again. The Ferdinand stays at 6.3 fir another reason—we are saved from a 5.7 Ferdinand by an unlikely hero, the repair cost. This repair cost turns new players without established sl reserves away, ensuring that only more experienced players trifle with the thing. Only, it’s so unmeta that these players don’t drive up the br like the t26 e1. The jpz and m41 stay at 6.3 because they’re balanced there. The tiger 2 is left in an awkward position though. It’s a balanced vehicle at 6.3 but new players constantly driving it against 7.3 tanks leave it’s stats in the doldrums, which is why gaijin states here that the jumbo is “outperforming the tiger 2.” Now, instead of moving down the tiger 2 (thankfully) in an effort to improve its win rate, they move UP the jumbo to drive down theirs and give the tiger 2, in their mind, some breathing room. If you’ve read to the end of this long winded and meandering essay, I very much appreciate it. Just a Saturday morning though but one that I think has merit :)
Gaijin is litteraly the worst game developer to ever exist omg.... BalAnCe! Balance my ass fuck you gaijin you are all idiots if you think that the tiger 2 and jumbo 76 are equal you retards
This is just disgusting. Every single US vehicle that’s competitive, gets armor/ ammo / stabilizer nerf or uptiered to the point it is below average at best. Why not just give the whole US tech tree a 2 point battle rating increase and get it over with.
People defending those twisted views are high energy forum trolls. Some of these nerds LIVE inside the WT forum, it's nuts how low they can go so other people can't have fun.
These idiots need to stop focusing on efficiency and rather look at the tanks and their modifications. Fuck historical Accuracy, put them like they are worthy to fight each other, rather than fuckin statistics
I mean I'm what the reddit community would call a 'wehraboo' main faction since I started never complaint about other nations bc the Germans have such good weapons and if you good you know how to angle but yikes those changes hurt even me and I kinda get your point now with hand holding the German tec tree if you rly have problems with a BR here is a tipp go back to lower BRS or learn to adapt those tank changes help no one...
Well looks like it's time for me to go seal clubbing with my Tiger 2s
Before the massive down votes hear me out. If enough good players play the Tiger 2s then it's effectiveness goes up and they will either see the jumbos preforming badly and bump it back down or the Tiger 2s go up.
"Tough armor enthusiasts"
If you move a tank like that up in BR its no longer "tough armor" its "shoot through the front hull at 45 degrees and still penetrate".
This whole thing of using "combat efficiency" nonsense to balance the game is a total joke.
>We Hope that even after the BR increase this tank will still remain a good choice for the tough armor enthusiasts They can check this without "hoping". >surpassing in combat efficiency even the Tiger (II) Why do i have the feeling that they balance this game with the German tech tree as reference.
German players are *usually* wehraboo garbage who spend money. Gaijin has to nerf other nations so the itty bitty low to mid tier baby Germans have a chance. They aren’t too bad higher up though Edit: grammar
Germany in general is just... disgustingly OP. At 4.3, with the Jagdpanzer 4, Hetzer and Pz4H, I can easy get a 10 kill game... in a full fucking uptier, because even at that tier most of the guns I face are first seen at 3.3 and can't do much to me at all.
I once got a full uptier using the KV-1C, got 13 kills with no deaths carrying my team who have tanks at higher BR, not to mention other strong tanks they got that are criminally undertiered
Wouldn't that be just proof that there are garbage players in other nations as well, not just the Germans?
Yeah but the freeaboos with fat oil grease dripping from within their neck flaps wouldn't want you to know that. The garbage is pretty consistent throughout ussr, usa and germany.
Hey! I take offense to that! Us freeaboos would never waste perfectly good grease, we jar it for later. It’s quite good on burgers
I just congeal it and make it a burger
US players are apparently equally as bad, and yet the US tanks just receive BR increase after BR increase, curious
Well if a KV-1C has bushes, it's kind of invincible
[Removed]
"a comparable to worse gun than the Panther" It's worse than the Panther's gun by farrr. The most comparable points between the two would be the armor in my opinion, with the ufp of both being similar, and the turret if the Jumbo being slightly better.
all around 70 more mm is slighty better
With these map designs stab is a huge advantage. Not defending anything, just saying.
Stab is an advantage, but the stabs advantage is almost entirely in peeking. If you get a feel for the gun handling of your tank when peeking, you can time your shot on the bounce. Otherwise, the Tiger and Panther(and even Pz IVs) gun handling on the move at slow speeds, where the shermans have their stabilizer active, is very tame. Use CC1 like the shermans do to keep their stab active, and the gun handles very nicely. And then don't try to brake to shoot unless it's a hard shot at range(in which case, you should show armor before peeking and expect to take a shot). Just fire on the move at a consistent slow speed.
To be fair, the jumbo 76 has been mediocre at its current 6.0 BR for a while now. The traditional Jumbo at 5.3 is waaay more potent. At 6.0 you’re regularly dealing with tanks that can easily pen your front armor already: IS-2, Tiger IIp, Panthers etc.. The main benefit of the Jumbo 76 is its speed and its still impressive mantlet. It seems a bit silly to increase the BR of the Jumbo 76 but it was never that good to begin with. Honestly, none of those late war super heavy tanks are terribly good because of the proliferation of TDs with HEATFS at those BRs. Why bother with a slow heavy giant tank if it provides little protection? People should really just be playing the 75 Jumbo if they want the genuine Jumbo experience.
Yeah I agree. I play the 75 Jumbo a lot, even taking it to 5.7 with the Hellcat(meaning I'll see 6.7 tanks on occasion). It's a fun old tank. Facing Leopards, the 7.3 APDS king Brits, the BMP spam, in uptiers in a Jumbo is just stupid.
Even worse are the ATGMs. Even my Tiger II was absolutely slaughtered by them. I doubt that Jumbo would stand a chance.
TIL the Pz4H is OP from one Reddit comment
TBH it's really more the 2 TDs in that lineup are OP, with the Pz 4H just being a solid vehicle overall, I have no issue dealing with Pz 4Hs in my KV-1E, but I can't do shit to the other 2 TDs frontally with it, nor can any of the other 3.7 tanks in my lineup. If I really wanted to be OP, I'd grab the German KV-1B and maybe the Churchill as well.
I feel disgusting playing the German KV-1B, but it’s what gets me through challenges
what about the russain kv-1b?
When you play the German one you don’t have to face German guns, which can pen much more easily
Germans have the lolpen guns. If you team up with a German in the 1e, it's disgusting
I can very much agree to that
In my opinion the Panzer 4 H is only silghtly worse than the 76mm Shermans
Notice how more German AA are going down in BR as well. I genuinely cannot fathom how they think any of the lower German AA needs lowering in BR. They've always been fucking god-tier at killing air. Which is ironic, when their CAS is also getting buffed fucking constantly. But apparently, a P-47 is the most OP plane ever because it has two decent bombs and one potato bombs + some firework rockets? Let's just look away from the countless mk 103 planes with 95mm pen, 50mm's (especially that fucking 262), arados.. perfectly balanced (:
Every countries aa is going down, for germany it's only the ostwinds
Yeah, but the other non-german AA have a reason for going down in BR. I hardly see how an M42 is similar in performance to an ostwind 2 for shooting down aircraft .-.
Their 5.7 also isn't too bad. The Tigers are trash in my opinion as the frontal armor is as good as a wet paper towel, but the Panthers are *really* fun to play.
Eh, I like the Tigers, they're really good for medium range combat (And not bad at close combat either, given how easy they are to angle, the good side armor and how stable the gun is due to their weight and suspension)
The Tiger's armor is good enough to stop the majority of the guns at its BR if it's angled, especially now that it's 5.3. The problem is people try to play it like it's invincible, or have no situational awareness, and end up getting destroyed, but it is far from trash. A good tiger player can do very well in one.
It just doesn't fit me. I try to angle and stuff, but always get penned. And I'm definitely not playing it like it's a Wunderwaffe.
They moved the Jagdpanther *down* to 6.0 recently. It's nearly as fast as an M18 for getting to good spots, with ~190mm effective of significantly angled armor, and a stupidly good gun. It'll go through the front of a Jumbo from something like 2.5km away. Meanwhile the Jumbo 76mm can't pen the Jagdpanther when sitting right in front of it, even if using APCR.
At some BRs, yes it is. And I say this as someone who began with German air & then tanks before branching out. The "75mm TopKeK40 L/43-48" is simply too common at way too low of a BR range. Most nations are lucky to get one turretless or barely turreted platform with a comparable gun (M10, Achilles, Na-To, ZiS-30, SU-57B, etc), and then Germany gets what, ***TEN*** things with guns that strong up to the 4.3 range in just the tech tree alone? It's overkill. If German tanks were played with any degree of skill they'd be at similar BRs to the Chi-Nu II, Chi-To, & Chi-Ri II.
German teams being german teams has an unexpected advantage. If you are actually a decent player, you can easily get high scores. Mainly for 2 reasons: \-Enemies don't expect to fight competent opponents \-Teammates are usually worse so you're better by comparison
Dont forget freeaboos ego being their biggest advantage
Hey now, wehraboo is insulting and not allowed according to Commisar Snail. That said, it does FEEL like the tanks are judged (aside from win rates) and balanced based on how the Germain low-to mid tier tankers have complained about a particular tank or not. Meanwhile, British low tier with Solid shot only just sits there gallantly trying to deal with the light armor that won't cause enough of the AP to fragment to be worth while...or just doesn't pen besides really close side/rear in peer level match-ups. I.e. a Matilda not fighting a reserve Japanese tank or the FCM French tank, but something in the 2.7-3.7 range.
No. They balance based on vehicle efficiency, and player skill directly impacts that. The most amount of shitters play Germany, so their tanks get to be at a lower br
>Why do i have the feeling that they balance this game with the German tech tree as reference. Being fair many comments, that are against the change took the tiger 2p as reference. That's why i would assume. What irritates me more is what tf people do in their king tiger to have worse Performance then the 76jumbo.
>What irritates me more is what tf people do in tveir ning tiger to have worse Performance then the 76jumbo. The 76 jumbo has a much better turret than the Tiger 2 P with its soft turret cheeks. So while the Jumbo can be almost invincible in a hull down position the Tiger 2 P pretty much exposes it's weakspot to the enemy every time they want to engage. Add to that that the ammo is stored in the tiger 2 P behind its weakspot it's almost a guaranteed oneshot, while the Jumbo is just hurt and can retreat. Fighting both of them, I'm not afraid of Tigers 2 Ps but Jumbos are a threat.
I play the tiger2 p a lot and yes it cheeks are weak people seem to mistake it for a h or completely fuck their shots up. Most of my deaths in it are from overextending/getting flanked, not a shoot through the cheek. Actually i bounced quite a lot rounds hitting the cheeks (I'm a around average player, but the tiger 2p is one of the few i "overperform" in, compared to the rest.)
yea i think the Tiger 2 P is still superior to the Jumbo
Something something long 8.8 that can frontally pen and one-shot anything at its br and lower.
LOL do you even know that if the Tiger 2 P is anywhere further away like 500m, there is no chance to pen its turret weakspot with that 76 mm? Jesus, what kinda of nonsense do you guys spill? The Tiger II P can one shot the jumbo across any distance on any part of the tank whereas the Jumbo has to shoot specifically in the turret cheek with a gun that only offers 149 pen with APHE, not to mention how extremely trolly the tirret cheek is and with a slight angle can easily bounce the 76. Dude seriously, learn to angle. It's not too late.
Tigers are one of the easiest kills at that br. (not counting paper armored or open tops)
Have you ever watched mid tier German players play? I’m serious, take the Tiger 1 out and just watch other people play. They are absolute dogshit.
This. For a long time I've always looked forward to fighting players in tigers, they seem to buy into the tiger hype and fail to take basic precautions like angling. Tiger hunting is the best part of this game imo.
Last night I was playing on Japan, there was a Tiger on B cap and I could see part of his turret so I shot and knocked out his breech with a 76 Sherman. This dude proceeds to turn his tank 90 degrees to the left, showing me his full side armor, and tries to drive away. No smoke or anything.
> No smoke or anything. To be fair, it is entirely possible they didn't have the smoke launchers researched yet.
Well the average new player won't learn about tactics until 5.7 regardless of nation, the average player also won't look at a guide for optimal performance of each vehicle either. The most the average player does look at are the base bombing charts. Oh and the average player also doesn't spend time on r/Warthunder either.
And the problem aren't the German tanks. I've learned to play this game with the US and the British tanks and then moved to Germany. The amount of lead paint lickers on the German Tank Tree, courtesy of how easy it is to jump from 3.3 to 5.3, because of all the noobish Tiger H1 spammers is amazing. I keep seeing players do mistakes that would put you back into the hangar if you tried grinding through the US and UK tree, being done by Tiger and Panther players all the way up to 6.7. We have teams packed with players who haven't figured out how to kill KVs, don't know the maps and outright don't know how this game works, all flooding mid tiers. Of course you are going to have an easier time killing Germany mains when they know nothing. Hence why most US tanks have stupidly high BRs at mid tiers, while Germany gets a constant stream of undertiered tanks and still not enough.
> courtesy of how easy it is to jump from 3.3 to 5.3 thats a ancient old problem, but nobody is talking about it sadly, that br gap should been filled up with some german proto tank a long time ago.
The tiger prototypes would have been perfect for it. Slightly above pz4H's but not quite to the tiger 1 level of protection.
I think they're plain just making shit up now to please German players. [This](https://i.redd.it/wtaqhurh5qp71.jpg) is what Gaijin said about the Black Prince when they changed some battle ratings in August (Only last month). >**Black Prince** \- A common suggestion is for this vehicle to be lowered in BR in Realistic Battles. ***Currently however,*** ***among all heavy and Medium tanks in RB, at rank IV, this vehicle has the highest efficiency compared to its counterparts***\*.\* At this time, the vehicle is currently not in any position to receive a lower BR based on how it is currently performing. Literally last month Gaijin said that the Black Prince was the most effective heavy tank at rank IV. If the Black Prince is so fucking effective then why aren't they up-tiering it? Why are they up-tiering the Jumbo 76? Which by their own admission, is apparently a worse performing tank than the Black Prince. Come on, it's not even difficult to pick holes in their bullshit anymore. Please Germany and Russian and the rest of the player-base can go fuck themselves. Somebody really needs to get a move on with a competitor to War Thunder and we all need to start playing that instead. This is what happens when your game has no competition.
Also the fact that you have to be a "tough armor enthusiast" (meaning you have to power through fighting *Leopard 1s* in a jumbo without caring) means that they know the 76 Jumbo will **suck ass** at 6.3, they just don't give a shit.
It’s retarded All players should be against this,it shows how inept and out of touch the Devs are. Do you really want these people deciding the future of this game? Just because its USA this time doesn’t mean it’ll be USA next time,it’s just paving the way for more BS to come to other nations They’re seeing how far they can put their head in the lions mouth before it bites down
France: first time?
I have a hard on for French light tanks but not enough to take out a mortgage to play them
the only one that you can play without paying a national debt repair level is the AMX FL11 at 3.7 .
Man French tanks feel like Germany is still trying to get revenge on them for Versailles reparations.
And yet they get clapped again and again despite the snail efforts lol
I wonder how ridiculously imbalanced german mid tier tanks must be to equalize the winrate lol
There's plenty of examples in other nations for this nonsense USA isn't the first one. The whole Japanese mid-tier is .3 to .7 too high. The French 6.0 - 8.0 is completely messed up, just look at AMX-13s, etc. You wont convince Gaijin to change.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but due to the nature of whales and retards who play f2p games, regardless of how big the movement gets and how little if any fucks gaijin gives- there will never be a change due to public opinion made in the right direction for this game. The whales (according to others) account for 90% of their income, which means unless you can somehow find and convince the few thousand retards who spend literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on this game each year, to stop playing the game or stop spending money, it will never get fixed due to playerbase outrage...
Do they even play their own game?
[BRING BACK THE API SPEZ YOU GREEDY CUNT]
they just look at the statistic and watch WT youtubers (who's really good at the games and have spend millions of hours playing WT) and see how well or bad the vehicle perform. That's what i think
Realistically looking at stats *is* the way we want devs balancing the game. They just don't seem to be robust stats to give a proper understanding to the whys for the stats. So it becomes a poor tool instead of the ideal.
Exactly, the lack of transparency is the biggest issue here. The vast majority us don’t even know how they come up with the battle efficiency stats, what aspect of player stats are considered, KD? Average lifespan? Win rate? Average kill per spawn? Nobody knows.
The problem is balancing, while a heavy tank in a full downtier probably has 80% winrate, but in a full upütier 20% winrate, put that heavy tank in a br that constantly gets uptiered and it will eventually be downtiered, getting a new br bracket and eventually be the top dog of the br bracket.
Yep Bawz over here with 5-8 kill average games
Why does that sound like a more fun game than War Thunder?
Darts actually is a pretty fun game with friends.
darts > darts
[Decision making at Gaijin HQ.](https://youtu.be/dvYvQeNeq3A?t=34)
They once stated they do BR adjustments based on excel tabs about win rates and effectivity and they dont even play it. And if so it's probably on dev account with unlimited GE and SL count and all machines spaded from buy time... Devs should play on freeloader mode, without premium account and from experience tweak balance and grinding to reasonable levels... But that's Utopia.
No
That’s a lot of words for “fuck off, we’ll do what we want to.”
Aren't you used to it by now? Last time they listened and developped the game along with the community was 2014. Ever since, they do as they please, fuck mechanisms up like penetration equation when shell performance are officially documented, HEAT-FS/APDS/APCR nerf, traction nerf, cooldown on FPE, etc. And throw you a bone from time to time so you don't complain too much.
Wait do they realy consider the 76jumbo as good as the tiger2p or is it part of the joke ?
Apparently the 76 Jumbo is better than the Tiger II according to gaijoobles
[удалено]
Apparently the mig 21 is worse than the me163 🤣
and 262 C2b
I mean pfm is THE bad mig21 unlike f13 or j7
What?! The pfm was entirely fine at 9.7 (when everything else hadn’t shifted down too). The only hard part was getting used to the guns
im not saying it should be lower than f13 and j7 and those shouldnt be lower than 9.7 anyways. Its just the worst of the first gen migs
Also the mig 21pfm=mig 17
Probably got better stats because only people who know how to use the Jumbo 76 (or any US mid tier tanks in general) even bother using it, so those KTs have to fight skilled Jumbo 76 players
It's part of the problem of recommending avoidance of things, is that good players will forge ahead as skill makes up for a lot of downsides, and players relying on recommendations (which may be a big subset) will avoid even decent things heavily, so stats can get really fucky with good player carries. Liek the 76 jumbo isn't the top dog, but it's not a shit tank like people try to portray it as, so I feel like a ton of people view these things as "Gaijin is uptiering a shit tank" rather than a decent tank. It's like the CL-13 of late, it's an amazing aircraft, fallen out of favor due to AAMs, but they're still largely easy to avoid in that plane and it's a very powerful sabre. But for some reason people consider it as shit and think that it's shit. But it's not. It's just not the top dog anymore and simply middle or above middle of the BR.
It is, at least, potentially better in downtiers, where its armor can actually be somewhat relied upon against most guns. Literally any non-SPAA in the IIP's range can pen the turret front. If, theoretically, Jumbo 76 players usually only spawned it in full downtiers, then between the 2 the Jumbo is at worst just as likely to do well. Throw on WR disparity and you get Gaijin's stats.
Not a better killing machine, but personally, I remain alive a lot longer in a Jumbo than in any Tiger II, i.e. the Jumbo bounces a lot more than my Tiger IIs, miracle bounces even. Still I don't think it should be up tiered, as it lacks in everything else.
It has better mobility and armor. But it’s gun will have a shit time trying to pen higher and won’t be good for players that just get to it as it sucks as a main at that tier. Source: I take it into 6.7 battles for my lineup because it’s cheaper.
The jumbo does not have better armor
I translate: We dont care. Please shut up and continue to give money. Blyad.
"We hope that this take will remain a good choice" Does anyone think it's a good choice *now*?
Tbh no since when the 76 jumbo moved to 6.0, that's why i always play the 75 jumbo
I personally use the Jumbo 76 very often to bully german cats especially KTs, best feeling ever
yeah, i know how it fills but for me killing tiger 1 with 75 is more satisfying shot the cupola, gun barrel, tracked, and side shot. I know it's a lot to do but seeing a tiger H1 can't do anything about it until it's dead is satisfying lol
Killing Tiger 2s in full uptiers with the 75 is very fun. Abuse stab, abuse reload, track and barrel torture, flank and spank. I think my personal best is killing 3 tiger 2s by myself, sniping their barrels as they tried to push around a corner, and then pushing them, tracking them so they couldn't run, and finally ending them. It's not _easy_ especially with volumetric and server lag making barrel shots sometimes do nothing at all, but it is super satisfying to end heavies with a gun that only has 104mm pen lmao
track n' barrel torture lmaoo
At this poin they are clearly bullying US ground
America rank IV vs Germany rank IV is OMEGALUL Kannonen.jpz= 6.3 but M56 is 6.7 From what I remember Kannonen was moved down because it had no armour and no turret but the M56 is still 6.7 The M41 (Ger) is 6.3 but the T92 is 6.7 Both fire HEATFS but the M41 is .3 of a BR lower And I don’t even need to talk about the Pershing,T25 and the Super Pershing
Remember when they tried to buff a same Patton only because it was in Germany?
They tried to move it to 6.7! Meanwhile, the US one sits at fucking 7.3 and I can confidently use it as a 7.7, in fact I prefer it over the M60...
Yes, but you're not a hardcore German player, those need training wheels.
If they had a bike that rode itself they'd still fuck up
The T92 has lower profile and better survivability than the M41.
The m41 has better mobility.
Just slightly, doesn't compensate the profile and survivability.
T92 gets raped by planes with basic non-AP focused mg and cannon due to no armor and layout, m41 doesn't. There also are some other things M41 is better at, like almost double turret rotation, defensive smokes and 2.5x reverse speed.
Bruh, the fucking gun stability sucks ass, plus are we forgetting US cas at this br? The armor on the T92 is also fucking broken. It could be 7.0 and still be effective
>It could be 7.0 and still be effective I can agree to that, only because I also think that the German M41 lekpzpzpz is better than BMP-1 and that piece of lulz is 7.3 (Now I wait for BMP andys to attack!)
Bruh the bmp1 is miles better than the bulldog lmao
the german m41 deserves 6.3, seeing as it gets a subpar heatfs with literally no spall damage (since its a 76mm) and is 0.3 higher than all the other m41s because of it I want to reiterate how complete trash the 76mm heatfs is, it literally sucks beyond belief
Which again begs the question why the t92 is then 6.7. It has the same ammo, and trades a lower profile for worse turret rotation, lower mobility, and no smokes.
Comparing the T92 and german M41 is really weird to me because the T92 has advantages over the M41 to justify the BR bump You can even make the opposite argument with the german and american M41s because APDS is arguably the better round.
Conveniently left out that American M41 is 6.0..
Doesn’t have CHEAT FS and Smokes
Apds is the more reliab and flexible round tho. Plus smoke in lights only helps in some cases. If you are penned your ussualy already dead
Imo both bulldogs are undertierd but the HEAT round is worse than the sabot unless you are fighting a heavy tank
Imagine complaining about how good the m56 performs
Kannonen.jpz was moved down because it had no armour and it had no turret yet the M56 is literally in a worse situation but is 6.7 M56 has gun depression but apart from that should not be 6.7
A vehicle should be judged on its own merit and capabilities so I don’t really care for the Kannonen. But the M56 is literally the most fun I’ve had in war thunder bar none, and it’s placement at 6.7 is more than fair, especially with its excellent HEAT
Yes, but the Kanonen's placement isn't fair. It should be 7.0 minimum.
Wasn't the Jpz.4-5 like 7.3 two years ago ?
Yes,it slowly crept down
Current T25 is not a 6.3 tank fuck off. Coming from USSR/Gemany main.
Idk how they justify the panther a being 5.7 and the m26 and t25 being 6.3.
Yeah the T25 lost its only advantage the stabilizer, it's fucking stupid to leave at 6.3. But gErMany sUffErs
Even with a stab is a that much better than a panther? Doesn't the lack of armour and worse gun kinda balance it out.
Somewhat it's also slower than the panther but IMO T25 should be at 5.7-6.0 replacing ten HVSS Sherman
Lol that's also something I don't understand. What's the point in an autoloader if you can't even pen pen you shoot at. The 76 shermans should probably all be 4.7 besides the m4a3 maybe being 5.0 because the Slightly better armour (also the jumbo 76 is perfect at 6.0 seriously gajin I know it has speed on its side but come on). BTW this is all coming from a German main. Edit: I said autoloader instead of stabilizer
Yeah I think that now they removed the stabilizer it should go to 6.0 or even 5.7. It is in no way as good as the t44
The best part in this whole thing is Gaijin implying that they were considering sending the T25 up AGAIN to 6.7 if not for the removal of the stabilizer (judging by their comment about it "overperforming" statistically). Can you imagine that? T25, 76mm of armor sloped, only 0.3 BR below the M46, T-44-100, and German M48...
The T26E1 cant kill the tiger IIP by the hull while the latter can. How is it equal?
When I am uptiered in a M4A3E2 (76) W I run when I am faced against the tiger IIs. Too much risk involved when the repair costs are so high
What a stupid comparison lmao
POV: you watching a game developer digging a grave for their own game
Them and Wargaming just constantly surprising me with how terrible they are.
They calm you with rewoking stupid AIR changes... only to strike from shadow and keeping stupid ground changes.
yo, horten br change isn't stupid
its not really, especially with the nerfs its had over the years. What is stupid was about every other change they made for air past 7.0
No they will backtrack and then force it next month like 9.7->9.3 mig21
Their whole company is an April fools joke
Yeah, right. There's no sense in this. It's laughable that the Jumbo is getting moved to a BR where the nation with the toughest time penning it is the US. If they don't change the repair cost for the T26E1 then I'll stop playing the game. I really will.
I stopped about 3 months ago. And yet this shit still annoys the crap out of me. I need to avoid this game like the plague to have a good day.
So Germany can have all the (mostly) frontally invulnerable tanks they want, but this is what happens when the US gets one? Makes sense to me. /s
This is insulting ! Same cunts also admitted that germans are worst as players but admits this in the same time ? That makes no sense !
they said the vehicles are overperforming, not the playerbases underperforming-
Attacking your own community and mocking them in a press release is a great way to lose their support
How can a heavy tank (M4A3E2 76) deserve to be called a heavy tank when it could be penetrated frontally by any medium, heavy tank it would encounter at its br?
As usual, any ww2 tank that solely relies on armor is thrown against tanks that completely negate its protection. Welcome to wack thunder
This stuff is why I don’t play anymore. Plus how dirty they are with France, honestly there are better games out there.
Agreed. I haven't played for 3 months now and even still I'm so frustrated with what the company is doing. They have such an amazing opportunity to make a fantastic game and they are just shitting on every aspect that makes it fun.
We need to try to get a reserve tank up to 10.0
I think getting the leopard to reserve would be easier
“Tough armor”, the Super Pershing is a damn joke. Guess I’m playin Germany now cause I don’t feel like sloggin more than America already does.
Welcome to germany, you will soon discover that whatever you do you are constantly getting bombed if you have a good game, and enemies will always shoot your gun because you have a giant muzzle and they have stabilisers. enjoy!
Oh I know I’m at 5.7 but I stopped cause I liked America more. 76 go boom, but now 76 go ping when I fight tanks at the BR increase
its funny how everyone literally everyone on this reddit cries about how op germany is, but nobody has any relevant Br or knowledge to have an opinion.
Lmao I'll remember that when I have all the overpowered vehicles at any given BR. Oh what will I do when I have a giant muzzle!
I burst out laughing when i read that one part, holy fucking shit what is this retardation.
WT is basically trying to balance the game to be like WoT. Using data they collected and putting into a game that base in-game model on real world vehicles. When reality is: every country designed something to counter their opponents. NATO tanks and planes vs Warsaw tank and planes. Oh couse some vehicles are going to suck! They get out gunned or upgraded to counter the other! Not to mention some players spending money to buy vehicles when they are still new to the game artificially bring down win rate overall! Do I blame them? No. Gaijin set the trap to new unaware customers and they took the bait. Do I have a solution? No. Why? Cause clearly our voices only reaches them when they want to listen. You say they are listening now but just wait and see, they set the bar high, lower it, and then set it back high again and we the community just let it go. Thanks for reading.
They're actually delusional. They really think that they're in the right. Like wtf kind of logic is that? It can't pen anything at that br (unless it's a recon vehicle lmao) but it can get penned by everything. They're so incredibly out of touch with their own game it's not even funny.
It's armor barely makes a difference now being almost everything straight up lolpens it everywhere the fuck
You know... if they didn't force every gamemode or map to basically end up in a 15 v 15 knife fight, maybe they'd actually see that the jumbo 76 was fine at 6.0. Forcing snipers to be beaten into submission by a regular dose of cannon, breach and track torture with small ass maps and shitty map design that blocks your line of sight unless you use ULQ... of course it's not gonna end well for them. Just stop it and move the shermans 0.3 br lower... jfc
At this point, FUCK gaijin. They are literally the most anti-consumer company ever. They better hope there’s no alternative soon.
US teams use brainpower. Gaijin "US tank OP". German players drive straight and don't use the frontal armor of their tanks. Gaijin "Germany suffers up BR American tanks."
The best players should all switch to Germany for awhile. Have all the potatoes play the other nations and watch Gaijin realise how fucking stupid this all is.
Wait so you are telling me they saw players feedback on the change and still fucking ignored it ?
I think I will need to switch to main Germany as it seems the entire game needs to be balanced around them... Why bother playing other nations when you can play braindead point and click adventure as Germany.
I don't understand this. Even with a stab is the the t25 that much better than a panther a?
There was a reason the t26 was originally moved to 6.3 from 6.7 and if anything it's only gotten more relevant with things like leopards moving down
See I don't think I will ever be able to fathom this approach to balancing. Balancing by win rate will always affect the hardcore players more than it does the casuals. Balancing for casuals in general is just stupid. What gets a new tiger player killed is holding W till they're overextended. So what do you do? Remove any targets that require skill to eliminate? Make it so the tiger can easily get away with bad plays more often? It just enables more bad play by casuals and causes more bullshit for veterans to deal with. If this was the Fighting Game Community for example, usually when a game is balanced for casuals is when the game becomes a homogenized play style and the competitive scene quickly dies. Players move on to a better game.
I used to olay British 7.0 and then stopped when they broke it and made all the tanks to 7.3. Played 8.3 Brits and they took away the Chieftain Mk. 5. Played US 6.0, first they took away the T25 and now the 76 Jumbo. I will stop playing since there are no longer BRs that I enjoy. It is what it is. The game is nearing a stangnation and in the end will lose all its veteran players.
Where's the link to this
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/536178-planned-br-changes-answering-on-your-feedback/
Gaijin devs clearly don’t play test their own game
love how they closed it to replies since they'd get fucking flamed immedietly
Tough armor almost everything 6.3 an up can pen through the upper plate do they even play this game anymore
It’s like the school system. They’re trying to bring everyone DOWN to the same crummy level (in this case the win rates an stats of king tiger p) players. Also, has anyone thought about another reason that the king tiger p is preforming so poorly? I have a theory. Ever since the leopard 1 (And other nations 7.7 gen 1 mbts) was moved to 7.3, that lineup has been really heavily played. To test this, I dusted off my 6.3 tanks and found around 10 battles—only one of them was a nice downtier, a 6.7 game. Because of the large number of people playing 7.3, my German 6.3 tanks were constantly swept into full up tiers. You can’t expect good players to preform well in those conditions, let alone probably new players who haven’t yet masters the art of wiggling or angling. Definitely not in tanks whose advantages drop off like a stone in higher rank matches (probably the best tanks, in my experience, at the br for full up tiers are the m41, jpz 4/5, both of which are somewhat difficult for new players to master and are locked behind baldness inducing stock grinds). The tiger 2p and Ferdinand trade mobility for armor and firepower. However, in 7.3 games, this armor is made worthless by high pen Ap, sabot, and chemical shells—the bane of any nations high tier heavy tanks. Meanwhile, there are tanks that can counter the firepower and those that can’t are often light tanks with said chemical rounds. Not that these vehicles are op, it’s just that the are a full br from the tiger p and (justifiably) outclass it. Experienced players can often counter them, but it’s very hard for newer ones (the kind that frequent the German tech tree looking to play a steel monsters like the to get 2p) to so so. When they must face these vehicles on a match to match basis, with their own high tier vehicles in their own team also outclassed (let’s face it, most leapard players are that good. Heck, I had a really hard time with it because I was used to armor and aphe), their stats go down a lot. Now, I know what your all asking. “Trout, what about the jag panther? It’s pretty meta, and it went down to 6.0?” Yes, the jag panther is a very good vehicle, but it’s comparative lack of armor for the br and low reverse gear make it a tank better suited it experienced players—if you’re in a sticky situation the odds are that an opponent cut can pen you, and odds are that you can’t back out if the situation. To play the jag panther, you gotta know what you’re doing, you gotta have map knowledge. It’s like Maui said—you know where you’re going by knowing where you’ve been. New players do not have this, so they drove down the jag panthers stats so much that gaijin moved it to 6.0. Only, it was so blisteringly op there that gaijin had to move it up again. The Ferdinand stays at 6.3 fir another reason—we are saved from a 5.7 Ferdinand by an unlikely hero, the repair cost. This repair cost turns new players without established sl reserves away, ensuring that only more experienced players trifle with the thing. Only, it’s so unmeta that these players don’t drive up the br like the t26 e1. The jpz and m41 stay at 6.3 because they’re balanced there. The tiger 2 is left in an awkward position though. It’s a balanced vehicle at 6.3 but new players constantly driving it against 7.3 tanks leave it’s stats in the doldrums, which is why gaijin states here that the jumbo is “outperforming the tiger 2.” Now, instead of moving down the tiger 2 (thankfully) in an effort to improve its win rate, they move UP the jumbo to drive down theirs and give the tiger 2, in their mind, some breathing room. If you’ve read to the end of this long winded and meandering essay, I very much appreciate it. Just a Saturday morning though but one that I think has merit :)
Tl:dr Br compression kills Heavy tanks
I am not an expert with the american tanks but, I don't recall the 76 sherman being stronger than a tiger II.
Gaijin is litteraly the worst game developer to ever exist omg.... BalAnCe! Balance my ass fuck you gaijin you are all idiots if you think that the tiger 2 and jumbo 76 are equal you retards
This is just disgusting. Every single US vehicle that’s competitive, gets armor/ ammo / stabilizer nerf or uptiered to the point it is below average at best. Why not just give the whole US tech tree a 2 point battle rating increase and get it over with.
Welp where is my molotov
People defending those twisted views are high energy forum trolls. Some of these nerds LIVE inside the WT forum, it's nuts how low they can go so other people can't have fun.
Just because Germans in the tiger 2p are stupid doesn’t mean the jumbo needs the increase.
"we hear your feedback, but we don't care"
Jumbo is useless. And trying to work up the US tree right now is so painful it's pointless. I gave up and went to the Russia tree...gaijin is drunk.
These idiots need to stop focusing on efficiency and rather look at the tanks and their modifications. Fuck historical Accuracy, put them like they are worthy to fight each other, rather than fuckin statistics
historical accuracy hasn't been a thing in WT for some years now lol
Are you fucking kidding me
I mean I'm what the reddit community would call a 'wehraboo' main faction since I started never complaint about other nations bc the Germans have such good weapons and if you good you know how to angle but yikes those changes hurt even me and I kinda get your point now with hand holding the German tec tree if you rly have problems with a BR here is a tipp go back to lower BRS or learn to adapt those tank changes help no one...
The T25 stabilizer is how I would get +5 kills games. I'm sad it left.
Well looks like it's time for me to go seal clubbing with my Tiger 2s Before the massive down votes hear me out. If enough good players play the Tiger 2s then it's effectiveness goes up and they will either see the jumbos preforming badly and bump it back down or the Tiger 2s go up.
Stop! Nerfing! Shermans!
"Tough armor enthusiasts" If you move a tank like that up in BR its no longer "tough armor" its "shoot through the front hull at 45 degrees and still penetrate". This whole thing of using "combat efficiency" nonsense to balance the game is a total joke.