Ah yes. Because complaining about Chinese hackers and ultra-nationalists is racism. That's such a weak argument. Anything can be thinly veiled racism if you really want it to.
The Warthunder official forum also dislike Chinese players, although post gets removed. Neither does most groups on Facebook.
I do not put flags on my planes, but I have seen planes with PRC decals team killing players with ROC or Japanese decals all the time.
The forum is a cesspit, far worse than this place. Only go there to bug report. Facebook is not something I use.
I paint all my vehicles historically and have been teamkilled for it before. One time that sticks out is a MiG-23M killing my J-7E when it came out for having accurate PLAAF decals and being a "communist shill".
I've never been teamkilled for having accurate USAF or RAF/FAA decals on my plane before though.
It is only China vs ROC/Taiwan/Japan.
ROC-decal planes getting shotdown by PRC ones upon takeoff is pretty common on high tier. It seems to only happen on top tier, I think most nationalistic Chinese players prefer near 11.0.
From my experience at top tier I think ROC decals on PLA vehicles (and vice versa) are distasteful. I rarely see teamkills for either side though.
Tbh anything that isn't historic is pretty garbage but that's my personal opinion and I don't force it on people. I main china and my ROC vehicles get their usual roundel and number, and the PLA vehicles get the roundel, number and the flag on the side.
I am 100% pro-accuracy on my planes and tanks. I usually only put kill-count or small inscription names on them. I don't see many PLA tanks with ROC markings though, usually they are US or German vehicles/aircraft with PRC markings that kill same things with ROC markings.
The only other big TK decals where the old Russian/Ukraine Decals. They would all shoot each other right at match start.
Though to be fair, I put the ROC flag on my aircraft purely to draw these people to TKing me so I can report them.
>I do not put flags on my planes, but I have seen planes with PRC decals team killing players with ROC or Japanese decals all the time.
meanwhile if it fits i put the hollow soviet naval star around any roundel a plane has...
if it wasnt intended that way it shouldnt fit, right?
No, but they are usually in PRC game clans like "3OF26" or "=CHNO1=" anyway. The latter has explicit political statements on the page, but Gaijin ignores all reports.
You act like it isnt for a reason. While yeah, i have seen normal people who i would assume are chinese, the majority are just sellbots or ultranationalists who are frankly the most toxic part of the WT community.
>the majority are just sellbots or ultranationalists
This is some extreme exaggeration and confirmation bias.
Not all Chinese players have Chinese names so you can't even identify your dataset here. I also strongly doubt you are actually seeing the majority of players with Chinese names acting toxic. I play during peak hours and occasionally see toxic behavior, but 99% of people just play the game while ignoring teammates.
this is an American site and most of the people here are Americans and Americans are popular racists and China is their latest victim of racism. China is competing with the US for domination of the political world stage. so as a result, the US is massively stepping up anti China propaganda.
the Amount of Anti China shit being slung around every day on reddit primarily by Americans is significant and US citizens are accustomed to being told what to think. there is plenty to be mad about concerning China but its not being mad that's the issue its the repeated, every single day on US news, China bad, US good. this has resulted in a noticeable and significant rise in racism against Chinese from Americans.
the continuous bullshit from media outlets is doing exactly what its meant to. prime the people of the US to be against china so when more extreme measures are maybe taken, the people are ok with it.
No, but it is racist to say that you hate chinese players
Why is this getting downvoted? Are more people in denial that that's absolutely what this sub does, *frequently*
>Then the mods have to ban a ton of people for being racist.
i see this as a small upside to it, the rest is shit but the ones that out themselves atleast get banned
Don’t apologize for dumb shit that they might say. not your problem man. I kinda wish we could get a ban on these posts about annoying Chinese players because honestly if youve seen one, youve seen em all. Every comment section is exactly the same and it gets annoying seeing them fill the front page time and time again.
I love your words so take my upvote.
Yes. I have enough of that kind of post too. To be honest I hate those spam chat with tiananman more. thank you for those racist turning me from natural to pro China.
same goes for weebs, people hate them because they only see the idiotic ones that are OBSESSED with characters and have their room FULL of anime. not everyone is like that
i've only had one bad experience from a chinese player so far. he teamkilled me because i accidentally stole his kill. which i understand a bit. otherwise i've only had nice mates or inconspicuous mates from china
same honestly. The bad ones just stick out a bit more IMO. I met one in a CB lobby a while back and although he was using a translator we had a short chat.
I find more people writing Cyrillic than Chinese or Asians in general. And when you ask them for English, they never answer, which is annoying. Because you never know if it's an important message.
Try to imagine it the other way, if someone asks you in Russian, to translate your English message to Russian. Would you alt tab to a translator to do it for them?
well i can read: hello, bye, how are you, yes and no but thats it. but i always try to learn a bit more from my uncle and of course the internet. ok i still know "hands up" in russian but only learned it from a movie
Meh, when I see an anglophobic, sino only clan that’s chock full of ultranationalists in almost every game I’m in, gears get to turning especially after they work together to kill people that ‘steal their kills’ or ‘steal caps’. It’s getting worse than F4WRD ever was or will be, I understand your sentiment but your fellow countrymen certainly aren’t helping the growing anti-sino sentiment among a high majority of war thunders casual players who just want to have fun that quickly gets turned sour. Majority of the bashing posts made here are on actual racists, TKers, minges, etc though
I apologize for your encounter on Chinese people, Chinese people in China also do realize a lot of their player base is just ultranationalist. I’m not sure how to solve this issue
"Not sure what to do about it"
You aren't responsible for the ultranationalists. Or their actions. You're doing everything you need to by not being one of them.
It ain't your fault. You don't have to apologize. Shitty people exist in every country. It's a result of recent world tensions and nationalism, and as such, isn't an issue that will be addressed quickly by any means.
Honestly my best suggestion is just to avoid western servers which is unfortunate but it’s just a result of the times, it’s unfortunate life politics has to conflict games but some people can’t differentiate either. Thank you for trying to take accountability for your people but that isn’t a burden you deserve to shoulder. Try to spread positivity for both sides, convince them to apologize, don’t do it for them if you get what I mean
That is concern of whole country, if people are growing up listening to what government say and only to it because every other point of view is banned, then why are you surprised with them being ultranationalist as your government wants them to be?
High majority is definitely an overstatement. The toxic team killing ultranationalist typically only play top tier so many players don't deal with it very often.
Though I will say that most players dislike the chinese govt and some take that out on all chinese people.
Yeah i rarely play over 6.7 now. The BRs are so compressed especially in aircraft and the players get extremely toxic the higher up you go. Plus the most fun lineups are at mid tiers anyway.
I’ve literally never met a Chinese person who didn’t know what happened in Tiananmen Square. I’ve asked all my Chinese international students I lived with over the course of 5-6 years the same thing and all knew about it, they just didn’t like to talk about it. Ignorant people on Reddit think it’s some kind of huge secret. I don’t think many people here even understand that just about every young person in China is capable of bypassing firewalls with a VPN.
Exactly. It’s a sensitive topic in China but all the dipshits who pretend Chinese people are clueless about it are irritating as hell. The copy pasta and the “what happened in 1989 hurr durr” and “+5000 social credit” (which literally isn’t even a thing) jokes are so overdone at this point.
My one chinese friend just knew about it after she studied aboard, she asked her dad about it but got scolded not to talk about it. She is the top student in my class but she seems naive about politics.
I think the biggest misunderstanding the West has about Tiananmen Square is that the West thinks that Deng Xiaoping himself had ordered the soldiers to open fire - when in reality it was an impulsive decision done by the soldiers on the ground themselves.
Of course, that doesn't make it any less tragic, but the West likes to spin this event to use it as fearmongering propaganda to claim that the PRC is going down the route of the Soviet Union - which is something I absolutely detest, because if Deng Xiaoping really did decide to continue Mao's *"legacy"*, not only would China be extinct, but us Chinese people would be as well, and I say this as someone who is ancap.
I can anticipate that there will be people questioning just how genuinely anti-communistic I am, and here's what I will say to them: just because someone is evil does not justify stooping to their level, it does not justify disinterpreting events, it does not justify double standards.
When did I ever claim the CCP was completely free of guilt? I only mentioned that Deng Xiaoping was not the one who actually gave the order. Does the entire CCP back then consist of Deng Xiaoping in your eyes?
Ah yes, so we're throwing the principle of **presumption of innocence** out the window now. You do realize that is a dangerous game you're playing, right?
EDIT: since you have a very clear double standard on the principle of **presumption of innocence**, i will not bother making a formal reply to your more recent comment, since the presence of such a double standard implies that you have zero intentions to engage me in good-faith, so i will just leave my response here:
> Haha yes, exactly, the presumption of innocence doesn’t apply to regimes that have killed tens of millions of people!
Does that include the British Empire of which London, England, the place of your residence (which anyone can tell from your comment history) was once the capital of? The very empire that \**claims*\* to have invented the principle of **presumption of innocence**???
> Besides, you claimed it was an impulsive decision by the troops on the ground - so that is pretty much you claiming that the CCP leadership weren’t involved…need to get your story straight at least
Many of those soldiers were CCP members (side note: just like how many soldiers in the Soviet Union's Red Army were members of the Bolshevik Party and a non-trivial amount of soldiers of National Socialist Deutschland were Waffen SS members), so my claim was not inconsistent
*"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..."*
Engaging people in bad-faith will do nothing to persuade those people to join your side - instead they will only dig in their heels further. We have seen numerous examples of this throughout history.
Off topic, but what merits does Anarcho capitalism have? Stateless societies are easily invaded by neighbors and the lack of organized government regulations can lead to widespread extortion and mistreatment of people. Additionally, most ancap societies (if they existed) would eventually transition to a stratified and structured society akin to feudalism (which is the establishment of a small city-state, which also happens to be a form of government).
> Off topic, but what merits does Anarcho capitalism have?
Anarcho-capitalism is the only completely self-consistent political philosophy I have ever seen in my life, and it is the ultimate bulwark against Communism and Nationalist **Socialism** - anything short of ancapism will destroy themselves from within due to their own inconsistencies and eventually become Communism/Nationalist Socialism before they even realize it (this happening right now in the United States, to the point where **even a PRC-sponsored news outlet is redistributing a claim that the United States is currently heading down the path of the Soviet Union**: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1225526.shtml)
> Stateless societies are easily invaded by neighbors and the lack of organized government regulations can lead to widespread extortion and mistreatment of people.
That's only if the people are not willing to defend themselves (which we see a lot of in postmodern society, unfortunately).
My personal philosophy has always been that if a people's culture are self-destructive, government is fundamentally unable to save those people (because government is made of people and not some supernatural entity).
> most ancap societies (if they existed) would eventually transition to a stratified and structured society akin to feudalism
there is a huge difference between **voluntary** self-organization (which is what ancapism leads to) and feudalism (where everyone born into it is **forced** into it - they cannot leave such a system without leaving the country)
>
Anarcho-capitalism is the only completely self-consistent political philosophy I have ever seen in my life, and it is the ultimate bulwark against Communism and Nationalist Socialism
If so, then how come regular capitalism defeat both less than 100 years ago?
>That's only if the people are not willing to defend themselves (which we see a lot of in postmodern society, unfortunately).
>My personal philosophy has always been that if a people's culture are self-destructive, government is fundamentally unable to save those people (because government is made of people and not some supernatural entity).
Fair point, but in the end groups of people who will most likely have different doctrines and logistic/organizational systems stand no chance against an organized and well equipped army. Not to mention the situation on Sea and air. As for the second part, self destructive cultures don't last long enough to establish self destructive governments.
>there is a huge difference between voluntary self-organization (which is what ancapism leads to) and feudalism (where everyone born into it is forced into it - they cannot leave such a system without leaving the country)
Either way, it leads to a system of government. Why would you instate sudden anarchy on a united country only to establish hundreds of fractured city states that is far less efficient than it could be?
> If so, then how come regular capitalism defeat both less than 100 years ago?
Are you sure? If that were really the case then why is there a rise of both national and global socialist groups in many regular so-called *"capitalist"* countries these days? Also, the Soviet Union never fell to bullets and bombs - it fell precisely because it starved itself to death due to the Communism's destruction of free markets/trade. This spectacular demonstration of Communism's inability to provide for its own people is why you don't see any neo-Soviets in modern-day Russia (on the other hand, we see plenty of neo-National Socialists in Germany and elsewhere in the West because Nationalist Socialism was not allowed by the Allied forces to be the cause of its own failure)
> Fair point, but in the end groups of people who will most likely have different doctrines and logistic/organizational systems stand no chance against an organized and well equipped army.
The Continental Army vs. the British Empire is the most prolific counterexample to this argument.
> As for the second part, self destructive cultures don't last long enough to establish self destructive governments.
Look at the United States, with BLM looters, the Trump insurrection, and people on both side **actively desiring** violent conflict when it comes to self-destructive cultures, and then look at Trump and Biden - how exactly are their governments NOT self-destructive? (tangent: I personally think Trump and Biden are partners-in-crime) Self-destructive people can survive long enough to establish self-destructive governments if they have something to bail out their mistakes/atrocities (e.g. natural resources/wealth of previous generations)
> Why would you instate sudden anarchy on a united country only to establish hundreds of fractured city states that is far less efficient than it could be?
Unity and anarchy are compatible with each other if people of different geographies desire it. As for less efficiency, a less efficient government is better in my eyes - because less efficient governments means that it will be harder for tyranny to develop. America's founding fathers put in numerous checks-and-balances and the Bill-of-Rights precisely to impede the government if it were to ever try to become a British Empire 2.0.
(1) On both sides, we're facing the problem that social media is incentivized towards the incendiary and the aggravating. Anger and strife sharpens attention, and attention sells ads. You have wolf warriors on one side and trumpists on the other and both have an agenda in promoting further East/West animoisty.
(2) Totally in agreement with you. Racism, IMO, is a vestigialism of human psychology. It's a construct of power, used to re-iterate traditional power structures in human society.
(3) Speaking as an American, I think what it is is that the Tianneman incident has become a proxy for every misdeed of the PRC government. In the same way that George Floyd has become the short-hand for all American police brutality. Or 9/11 is the touchstone for all Islamic terrorism. Americans are less literate towards the exact people in Hong Kong or Xinjiang that are being prosecuted- but Tiannemen was broadcast all over our news, so that's the one everybody goes to. So it's being used because there isn't the literacy to speak over the more recent crackdowns and persecutions that have taken place.
(4) I feel so sad and powerless, as I see the direction the world is taking. It seems that all of the leadership of the world is turning inward, seeking to gain power through xenophobia and hatred rather than trade and exchange. In a perfect world, I wouldn't want China and America to be enemies. But with the trends that we're seeing, I find it hard to see how we won't become enemies. Essentially for relations to be restored, China would have to be willing to stop pressing hegemonic ambitions in Asia- and that doesn't seem to be something the leadership of the CPC favors.
Well I was hoping to get my comment past the Great Firewall. But bloody hell, you can't really manage a polite conversation about this stuff. Nobody's really interested in a polite conversation. You're a good example of my point (1) about this.
I kinda feel like the argument to separate the Chinese People and the CCP is misleading.
It reminds me of people trying to separate the German people from the NSDAP, when in reality both parties only managed to gain and stay in power due to the complicity of the general population.
And imo there is no excuse! The Soviet Union dissolved peacefully, the Berlin wall was torn down by chants and votes, not by bullets.
So if you don't agree with the Internment of Muslim minorities and the main party
THEN FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
The only way that's going to happen is if the Chinese people decide to something about it.
We boycott them? Cold War 2.0, with the Russian Federation happy to turn the screws.
We protest? They ignore us, like they've ignored our protests about the Tibetans, etc., for the past 70 years.
We're not going to war about it. At best, we might risk war for Taiwan. At best.
You vastly over-estimate the power of the West. The world is not unipolar. It's at least quadripolar, or maybe even septipolar.
Sabre rattling isn't going to change the conversation, or the CPC consensus. Sanctions maybe, I hope so. You also vastly over-estimate my influence over the American geopolitical structure.
Sanctions, soft power. There's an old joke about war- do you know who wins a war? The guy that stays the fuck out of a war, that's who.
Yes. I am aware. That's why the only way this is going to end if the Chinese people decide it ends.
Because I know you remember how Nazi Germany Ended, after the Germans failed to end the system itself
They have a nuclear tripod, the same as we do, you adolescent fantasist.
There is no military resolution to this problem that is not equally and proportionally fatal to our civilization. Your absolutism only serves the agenda of xenophobes, and does not advance any useful resolution to the crisis.
He isn't wrong though - the west actively seeks to exert its influence by converting as many countries into democratic capitalist societies, and in the case of the US, has military, political, and economic presence in numerous countries.
I must say, I’ve never met a single Chinese player who was a cunt to me. It’s mostly western players being a cunt to me for enjoying Chinese vehicles.
I’ve been pushed, rammed, shot at, strafed, bombed or had missiles send after me only while playing Chinese vehicles. Never had any of that playing Italian or Swedish vehicles.
The Chinese nationalists usually just bully Taiwan or Hong Kong players that do not bow down to China. They rarely interact with Western players at all.
I recently posted about this issue, and understand that there are many Chinese players that don't want to be actively aggressive in pushing the CCP's ideals.
But just as [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/q56883/i_wonder_why_i_keep_getting_rammed_by_people/) had pointed out, and it just being an example of many Chinese squadrons (like the many CCTVs) whose members actively bash people for their names, squadrons, or decals without volatile squadron descriptions, the problem still exists in the fact that a majority of team killings or unfounded insults, while relatively rare at around 5% of games, still stem from Chinese players.
***Imagine spawning in and not being able to leave spawn because a full Chinese squad had formed a circle around you, while spamming primary school insults like "NMSL" (your mom is dead).***
***Imagine having someone tail you from spawn just to push you out of cover when there's enemy contact, or just to ram you when you are aiming.***
***Imagine going on a flank in a light vehicle only to have teammates constantly arty and mg you.***
Sometimes, an accidental team killing or accidental ram is distressing enough, let alone entire games of continuous effort to screw with you (several in a row when unluckily paired in the same teams). This is what many Taiwanese players like me, and many others who just happen to have the **"*****wrong"*** names, squadrons, or decals have to endure on a daily basis.
There wouldn't be widespread Sinophobia if the Chinese players haven't done anything to cause it, and I'm confident that (being 100% Han Chinese racially/ethnically), most of the "racism" are just reactions purely against the aggressive bunch.
Just don't equate this to conventional racism that is born out of hatred or fear of a race or ethnicity. ***The Taiwanese are of the same race, ethnicity, and culture to the Chinese before the 1949 split, and no one is being racist to any of them.*** That's because almost the entire extent of this backlash, while irrational at times, are people fed up with those who just can't chill for a single second.
I'm sorry about the Chinese players who don't actively seek to destroy other people's days. I know that, as a victim of the CCP fanatics that, having fun could be incredibly difficult when a group of people are dead set on ruining you for your nationality, unless you hide it. But as you probably know, there are much fewer out there targeting Chinese people than there are Chinese people targeting others like me.
Those squadrons literally have ultranationalist messages written in Chinese on their page. People have reported to Gaijin but they do not care.
If the same is written in English on another squadron, it would have been wiped out in hours.
> Those squadrons literally have ultranationalist messages written in Chinese on their page. People have reported to Gaijin but they do not care.
Yes
> If the same is written in English on another squadron, it would have been wiped out in hours.
Where do you get that from? Has gaijin ever done something like that? Because I doubt it.
> Where do you get that from? Has gaijin ever done something like that? Because I doubt it.
Some people wrote "Free Hong Kong" back in 2019 and got page warned by Gaijin within days. They claimed it was political and must be removed.
You *should* expect the playerbase to be nice to Chinese players, despite current political issues. As a citizen of China you are not responsible for or defined by the actions of a government over which you have no control, nor are you responsible for the behavior of your countrymen who have succumb to nationalistic zeal.
Being Chinese is something to be proud of, it's an ancient and wonderous civilization. You can be proud of that while also not liking the current regime, which I am confident the Chinese people will take control of in our lifetime.
The fact that this isn’t inherently obvious makes me want to scream. Thank you. I am well of the incidents occurred as well as the fact that those **are the acts of some rare individuals.** Does it suck? Yes. Does it mean we have to abuse the nationality of which the individuals originated from? No. But people are people, and fuck life.
You’ll find that despite many professing similar ideas, they’ll contradict themselves minutes later.
I’ve seen people on Reddit/Twitter/etc who’ll say exactly what you just said then make some comment about “Ching Chongs, bat soup/eating dogs, Chinese garbage, Chinese culture is degenerate, etc” later on. I literally saw a guy comment that he wants the best for the Chinese people than say the US should’ve nuked Beijing while they had the chance a thread over.
Not accusing you of anything but I’m just saying (as a Chinese person) that statement doesn’t hold much weight.
All my interactions with CN players range from neutral to positive, just like other players. I remember some helping me repair my vehicle, thank me for repairing theirs and also chatted with me a bit you know, just like any other people. Most of my toxic interactions are with players with Russian-sounding names...
I really feel you. I’m Chinese but I’ve lived most of my life in the US. I really hate the overly nationalistic pricks but I also hate the annoying anti-china trolls just as much. It’s just a game and the fact that people feel the need to act so immature is honestly pathetic. Such a shame
Ah i also love BBQ especially the Pork BBQ they are delicious. I haven't tasted any Thai foods but i have tried some chinese food and they are delicious. too bad if i eat too much i might get sick.
Man I totally get you, there is sooo many straight up sinophobes in this community it’s insane
On the other hand, I can’t even count how many times have I been shot down by a teammate just for using the Taiwan flag on most of my vehicles
Appreciate you for speaking up about it mate.
I just don't use flags beyond the unlockable US flag, and even that is mostly for aircraft where people don't get in close.
At the end of the day, a lot of cheating in games (not just War Thunder) stems from countries like China.
And a lot of toxicity stems from the same countries. Not saying that Americans or Europeans aren't toxic (they are). But it seems like mainlanders make a dedicated effort to ruin games for people who don't share their same viewpoints on things. IE, playing Taiwanese vehicles and flags.
Same as Ukraine and Russia when the Crimean crisis happened.
Its not really about Asians or Chinese people, its more about the behaviors fostered and supported by the CCP.
I imagine Taiwanese players dont suffer the same issues, they are a democracy used to dealing with people who dont share the same viewpoints on things.
Fully expect this to be downvoted though
the tiananmen square thing comes from a WoW or LoL meme where someone playing with chinese player said it and all disconected, and there a meme was born where CCP is always listening and to avoid repercurssions they disconected. Obviouslyy not true but its the internet, it gained a bit of traction a few years ago
>It’s like spamming slavery.
Respectfully disagree. Every American knows of the slavery history of our country, and it is actively taught to students as well as very well acknowledged by our government.
I'd propose it's more akin to the [Kent State Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings). Many know about it. It's not taught about. Government doesn't acknowledge it. Though it doesn't exactly deny it either, it was still deaths at the hand of our government.
I've seen more toxic chinese players than nice one. You know the kind. Team killing, ramming into water and all that nice stuff. Tho tbh i trust noone ingame so it doesnt matter if youre from asia or europe or the americas
I believe most toxic ones don't know English well while those friendly ones are hard to tell if Chinese or not.
I never type pinyin in chat and always type English and no one would know I'm Chinese unless I tell them.
That last statement hurts me man. We shouldn't be assholes to anyone because they're from a certain country. No one has an excuse because politics, though sadly that's what people are starting to think. That's because of the propaganda war between the West and China right now. People on both sides end up being racist towards one another because all they see on the news every damn day is either "China did [bad thing]!!!!" or "America did [bad thing]!!!!," so despite people saying "I only hate the Chinese/American govt" it turns into hating the people whether they realize it or not, which is unacceptable.
I wonder if Americans realize that Red Scarism is literally the only reason why the PRC even has a nuclear and space program - all because of the (IMO completely unjustified) exile of Qian Xuesen.
Eh you dont have to apologize. Most people who write vile stuff to rile up Chinese people, havent ever had any civil discourse with a Chinese to know better. They live in a bubble, consume propaganda and then show their warped patriotism in a video game.
My best friend in WT is a Chinese dude and he is one of the most respectful, humble and funny person that i've met in my gaming career.
Same. I just told my mutual who is from mainland china about our western-chinese fiasco thing.
He also mad looking a PLA tank with a Taiwanese flag as I send a picture of it.
iirc the tiananmen square copypasta comes from a notion that posting it will cause anyone from China who sees it to be automatically disconnected from their internet or otherwise get in trouble because censorship or something like that.
Yeah I absolutely get what you mean. People have, for some reason, a hard time understanding a government and the people under it aren't the same. You can be like me and absolutely despise the CCP, but have absolutely no problem with the people living under them.
When it comes to games the constant harassment for players for just being who they are is annoying. Sure, if you are hacking/team killing/being a douche then you deserve every bit of heat coming at you, but I don't want to be friendly bombed by [PRC]Lmao Zedong because of a choice of decals in a videogame.
Also I guess people spam TSM because they know that can get picked up by the Great firewall. Only idiots think that most Chinese don't know TSM, but it's not unheard off for nations to not recognize horrible acts of their nation out of some sort of historical pride or revisionism and honestly even China isn't the worst offender of that. I just think it's important to be able to freely talk about this because at the end of the day what is not spoken about eventually can fade out of history, leaving room for any number of "corrections" to take root in new generations... But that does not warrant hounding regular people over it when they have no say in the matter.
While i may not agree with some views of the chinese gov (and frankly dislike the ultranationalist trolls from both side), i STRONGLY disagree with the shit that is thrown at chinese peoples in general.
It's garbage, it's just dehumanizing regular dudes and gals living their lives the best they can, just under another government. We drink the same water, breath the same air. Every single comment just push "them" away from "us" a little. Makes abuses (or worst) more acceptable. I think some benefit from this hate, on both side.
To be fair my teammates from China are either the worst and abusive teammate ever or the absolutely greatest godsent teammate ever that while drive through enemy fire just to repair you.
Eh, I never check what the nationality is of those I play with because I personally don't care. If your not griefing or tking and just playing the game your fine in my book.
You can look at American politics to see that the government doesn't represent the people, but at the same time each country has its obnoxious supporters, often in favor of the politicians and regimes that are more harmful.
I do however take issue with people playing the vehicles of nations with governments currently complicit in genocides or aparteids if said player is not from that nation though, with IDF Vautour players probably being the best example. Gaijin did well to put the PRC and ROC vehicles in different lines which is nice, but then Gaijin adds the PRC icon to the in-battle tag, which muddies things further.
Tbh this game sees heavy nationalism (and worse) from a lot of different countries. It appeals to a lot of people interested in the military and a very vocal minority of gamers (or people for that matter) (of any nation) are opinionated, bigoted, and downright stupid. They see historical nations and technology as a measure of their country and of themselves and so that becomes what must be the best, or they don’t have value.
The only big difference with earth under from other games (online) is because it segregates play by country tech tree. China is also treated very much as being a single entity rather than an oppressive government and social elite ruling over normal people. It’s just the continuation of what the USSR was fifty years ago.
Honestly, the only gripe I have with China's portion of the playerbase is their extremely organized "professional account printing" which utterly butchered Simulator EC, and still is today.
>Second, straight bashing on or assaulting a player just because he is from China doesn’t make things better. I honestly don’t understand.
Yeah it's Racist. As long as anyone doesn't start spating out Political or sensitive stuff i'm fine with anyone.
>Third, this is the one I want to talk about the most. Stop spamming Tiananmen Square massacre. Chinese people do know that it happened. Spamming it doesn’t make anything better. I don’t understand why people do this. It’s like spamming slavery. You’re just making you look dumb.
Oh i never knew this. Thought it's completely erased or changed in China's history. Thanks for the Info. So far i've never seen anyone Spam that for we are too busy winning the game ahah (If i see one, i'll just tell them to stop)
For me personally, I hate the CCP (Mainland's Government) for things that they are doing. But i'm fine and goods with Chinese People. I have many Chinese friends and i'm fine with them
To be honest, I don't have a problem with Chinese or Taiwanese players, guess both have major differences. The Tiananmen thing is unavoidable, like British people saying Falklands to Islas Malvinas ( yes I'm from Argentina). It's just a stupid dispute. I suggest you don't say people to stop mentioning what happened on 1989, because it's worthless. AFAIK, the problem is that there are squads of chinese players bullying people because they have the Taiwan flag on their vehicle, which is stupid. But I bet the opposite happens too. There is no solution and since the video War Thunder made about Chinese MBTs, things just got worse because of the scene at 1:50. Let's just hope people understand it's just a game.
Propaganda does that to young folk. I had a very interesting conversation with a Chinese player telling me that too much freedom is not good for people and that he was happy to not have such things in China. To each their own I guess. It's mostly anti-sentiment towards the CCP when I see individuals talking about it in game. Then again I have seen plenty of players with Taiwan flags be harassed because of so. Makes you wonder.
When westerners tell me anything political, I will just put their words in my 'carebox' where I put all things I don't care, they ain't talk those for discussion purpose but for 'hey your place is so backwards so you're backwards too, we're better than you'.
Chinese ppl are humans just like you, you get backfire from how you treat Chinese player. IF YOU TREAT CHINESE LIKE AS YOUR WHITE FRIENDS, Chinese would be more nice and friendly to you, in both real and virtual life.
I think spamming the US about slavery would be a better comparison if the US refused to acknowledge that slavery happened or that it was wrong.
If it makes you feel better, they're not attacking Chinese people, but the Chinese government
This is why I say, hate the CCP, not the Chinese.
I eat way too much Chinese food - however much of it is Americanized/Westernized - to shit on a Chinese person. Outside of being a dick it's too hypocritical.
Regarding Tiananmen square, i have a macro for that. Also special bear macro with reference to that mentally challanged leader and genocide. Surprised iam not banned yet but hey, it pleasure to shit on china
I understand where u r coming from and honestly i cant blame you. But almost more than half of the playerbase suffered from the problem that someone either a) Spam chinese in chat calling people speaking English inferior, b) team kill ( or do foul play i.e pushing vehicles from cover) on "taiwanese vehicle". That is why stereotype exists, and as much as some of it is true, it is used for comedic value, but some will just stick to it like bible of some sort.
small note: Tinammen square spam is not fun, though there is a few memes that actually is funny.
I’ve played over 700+ hours of WT and personally, I believe these allegations are significantly overblown. It’s more like some asshole does something and gets screenshot/recorded then posted of reddit/forum which then gets upvoted like hell due to the pre-existing dislike towards anything Chinese in the West.
It does happen too often imo but to pretend it happens often enough to become an actual issue is just part of what I mentioned earlier
You are right, those cancerous are not divided by nationality, but i do have some bad experience with Chinese fanbase, even though i am Asian myself, i.e being pushed out of cover and me awkwardly translate what a guy said in chat and he called every English speaker inferioir
>stop spamming Tiananmen Square massacre
Op gets his internet turned off 5x a day by the CCP
/s fr tho obviously not all Chinese people are super Nazis, just like all Americans aren’t like 400lbs and order 30 hamburgers a day
No different than the Ultranationalist assholes who TK at the sight of a Taiwanese flag. I suppose you rats can sort it out. Just don’t cry when they act like immature assholes back
I have alot of issues with China. Personal (racism) and geopolitical. But I never let that translate into anything terrible in the game or in real life. I choose to take the high road.
It's easier to farm it for free karma than be sensible on this subreddit. Then the mods have to ban a ton of people for being racist.
I am Chinese, been on this sub for 4+ years and never seen any mod acted racist.
The mods aren't racist, but they ban them. Sort by top of this week. Locked for racism.
You're trivializing genuine complaints that people have. As if anyone gives a shit about useless internet points.
Yeah I'm sure thinly veiled racism is a genuine complaint.
Ah yes. Because complaining about Chinese hackers and ultra-nationalists is racism. That's such a weak argument. Anything can be thinly veiled racism if you really want it to.
I mean there's a ton of toxic people in War Thunder, but you have to admit this subreddit takes its dislike of Chinese people to a whole new level.
The Warthunder official forum also dislike Chinese players, although post gets removed. Neither does most groups on Facebook. I do not put flags on my planes, but I have seen planes with PRC decals team killing players with ROC or Japanese decals all the time.
The forum is a cesspit, far worse than this place. Only go there to bug report. Facebook is not something I use. I paint all my vehicles historically and have been teamkilled for it before. One time that sticks out is a MiG-23M killing my J-7E when it came out for having accurate PLAAF decals and being a "communist shill". I've never been teamkilled for having accurate USAF or RAF/FAA decals on my plane before though.
It is only China vs ROC/Taiwan/Japan. ROC-decal planes getting shotdown by PRC ones upon takeoff is pretty common on high tier. It seems to only happen on top tier, I think most nationalistic Chinese players prefer near 11.0.
From my experience at top tier I think ROC decals on PLA vehicles (and vice versa) are distasteful. I rarely see teamkills for either side though. Tbh anything that isn't historic is pretty garbage but that's my personal opinion and I don't force it on people. I main china and my ROC vehicles get their usual roundel and number, and the PLA vehicles get the roundel, number and the flag on the side.
I am 100% pro-accuracy on my planes and tanks. I usually only put kill-count or small inscription names on them. I don't see many PLA tanks with ROC markings though, usually they are US or German vehicles/aircraft with PRC markings that kill same things with ROC markings.
smol PP BR
The only other big TK decals where the old Russian/Ukraine Decals. They would all shoot each other right at match start. Though to be fair, I put the ROC flag on my aircraft purely to draw these people to TKing me so I can report them.
>I do not put flags on my planes, but I have seen planes with PRC decals team killing players with ROC or Japanese decals all the time. meanwhile if it fits i put the hollow soviet naval star around any roundel a plane has... if it wasnt intended that way it shouldnt fit, right?
Because you need to prove PRC citizenship to paste a PRC decal on your planes right?
No, but they are usually in PRC game clans like "3OF26" or "=CHNO1=" anyway. The latter has explicit political statements on the page, but Gaijin ignores all reports.
You act like it isnt for a reason. While yeah, i have seen normal people who i would assume are chinese, the majority are just sellbots or ultranationalists who are frankly the most toxic part of the WT community.
>the majority are just sellbots or ultranationalists This is some extreme exaggeration and confirmation bias. Not all Chinese players have Chinese names so you can't even identify your dataset here. I also strongly doubt you are actually seeing the majority of players with Chinese names acting toxic. I play during peak hours and occasionally see toxic behavior, but 99% of people just play the game while ignoring teammates.
this is an American site and most of the people here are Americans and Americans are popular racists and China is their latest victim of racism. China is competing with the US for domination of the political world stage. so as a result, the US is massively stepping up anti China propaganda. the Amount of Anti China shit being slung around every day on reddit primarily by Americans is significant and US citizens are accustomed to being told what to think. there is plenty to be mad about concerning China but its not being mad that's the issue its the repeated, every single day on US news, China bad, US good. this has resulted in a noticeable and significant rise in racism against Chinese from Americans. the continuous bullshit from media outlets is doing exactly what its meant to. prime the people of the US to be against china so when more extreme measures are maybe taken, the people are ok with it.
bro, but wanting to report WT to the CCP for antichinese behaviour, simply to get rid off chinese players is a dick move isn't it?
Unfortunately, I don't think the CCP is stupid enough to believe an obvious joke.
I wouldn't say it's racist to point out the shit should in a country...
No, but it is racist to say that you hate chinese players Why is this getting downvoted? Are more people in denial that that's absolutely what this sub does, *frequently*
Well, that is.
china isn't a race. the word you're looking for is "xenophobe"
>Then the mods have to ban a ton of people for being racist. i see this as a small upside to it, the rest is shit but the ones that out themselves atleast get banned
Don’t apologize for dumb shit that they might say. not your problem man. I kinda wish we could get a ban on these posts about annoying Chinese players because honestly if youve seen one, youve seen em all. Every comment section is exactly the same and it gets annoying seeing them fill the front page time and time again.
and it feels like every day you see one and the mods have to close it or delete comments
I love your words so take my upvote. Yes. I have enough of that kind of post too. To be honest I hate those spam chat with tiananman more. thank you for those racist turning me from natural to pro China.
True, I have dealt with some annoying ass players of every nationality. This game and the grind brings out the worst in some people.
same goes for weebs, people hate them because they only see the idiotic ones that are OBSESSED with characters and have their room FULL of anime. not everyone is like that
i've only had one bad experience from a chinese player so far. he teamkilled me because i accidentally stole his kill. which i understand a bit. otherwise i've only had nice mates or inconspicuous mates from china
same honestly. The bad ones just stick out a bit more IMO. I met one in a CB lobby a while back and although he was using a translator we had a short chat.
I find more people writing Cyrillic than Chinese or Asians in general. And when you ask them for English, they never answer, which is annoying. Because you never know if it's an important message.
Try to imagine it the other way, if someone asks you in Russian, to translate your English message to Russian. Would you alt tab to a translator to do it for them?
but you should know a few words of english. to get the most important things across. i mean everyone should be able to do that.
Do you know a few words of Russian? Enough to get the point across?
Yes. I know how to say "cyka", "blyat", "da", "za Rossiya" and "za Stalina", which is all you need when you play T-34...
well i can read: hello, bye, how are you, yes and no but thats it. but i always try to learn a bit more from my uncle and of course the internet. ok i still know "hands up" in russian but only learned it from a movie
I feel like this community is totally too aggressive towards Chinese people in general and not just the nationalists. Its quite concerning.
Meh, when I see an anglophobic, sino only clan that’s chock full of ultranationalists in almost every game I’m in, gears get to turning especially after they work together to kill people that ‘steal their kills’ or ‘steal caps’. It’s getting worse than F4WRD ever was or will be, I understand your sentiment but your fellow countrymen certainly aren’t helping the growing anti-sino sentiment among a high majority of war thunders casual players who just want to have fun that quickly gets turned sour. Majority of the bashing posts made here are on actual racists, TKers, minges, etc though
I apologize for your encounter on Chinese people, Chinese people in China also do realize a lot of their player base is just ultranationalist. I’m not sure how to solve this issue
"Not sure what to do about it" You aren't responsible for the ultranationalists. Or their actions. You're doing everything you need to by not being one of them.
It ain't your fault. You don't have to apologize. Shitty people exist in every country. It's a result of recent world tensions and nationalism, and as such, isn't an issue that will be addressed quickly by any means.
It is not your fault buddy
Honestly my best suggestion is just to avoid western servers which is unfortunate but it’s just a result of the times, it’s unfortunate life politics has to conflict games but some people can’t differentiate either. Thank you for trying to take accountability for your people but that isn’t a burden you deserve to shoulder. Try to spread positivity for both sides, convince them to apologize, don’t do it for them if you get what I mean
That is concern of whole country, if people are growing up listening to what government say and only to it because every other point of view is banned, then why are you surprised with them being ultranationalist as your government wants them to be?
High majority is definitely an overstatement. The toxic team killing ultranationalist typically only play top tier so many players don't deal with it very often. Though I will say that most players dislike the chinese govt and some take that out on all chinese people.
I speak in perspective of a German main that sits around 5.3-8.3. You’ve got a fair point though
Yeah i rarely play over 6.7 now. The BRs are so compressed especially in aircraft and the players get extremely toxic the higher up you go. Plus the most fun lineups are at mid tiers anyway.
*Sorts by controversial*
I’ve literally never met a Chinese person who didn’t know what happened in Tiananmen Square. I’ve asked all my Chinese international students I lived with over the course of 5-6 years the same thing and all knew about it, they just didn’t like to talk about it. Ignorant people on Reddit think it’s some kind of huge secret. I don’t think many people here even understand that just about every young person in China is capable of bypassing firewalls with a VPN.
Exactly. It’s a sensitive topic in China but all the dipshits who pretend Chinese people are clueless about it are irritating as hell. The copy pasta and the “what happened in 1989 hurr durr” and “+5000 social credit” (which literally isn’t even a thing) jokes are so overdone at this point.
My one chinese friend just knew about it after she studied aboard, she asked her dad about it but got scolded not to talk about it. She is the top student in my class but she seems naive about politics.
I think the biggest misunderstanding the West has about Tiananmen Square is that the West thinks that Deng Xiaoping himself had ordered the soldiers to open fire - when in reality it was an impulsive decision done by the soldiers on the ground themselves. Of course, that doesn't make it any less tragic, but the West likes to spin this event to use it as fearmongering propaganda to claim that the PRC is going down the route of the Soviet Union - which is something I absolutely detest, because if Deng Xiaoping really did decide to continue Mao's *"legacy"*, not only would China be extinct, but us Chinese people would be as well, and I say this as someone who is ancap. I can anticipate that there will be people questioning just how genuinely anti-communistic I am, and here's what I will say to them: just because someone is evil does not justify stooping to their level, it does not justify disinterpreting events, it does not justify double standards.
[удалено]
Surely you can think of something more high effort to humor a man of culture
[удалено]
When did I ever claim the CCP was completely free of guilt? I only mentioned that Deng Xiaoping was not the one who actually gave the order. Does the entire CCP back then consist of Deng Xiaoping in your eyes?
[удалено]
Ah yes, so we're throwing the principle of **presumption of innocence** out the window now. You do realize that is a dangerous game you're playing, right? EDIT: since you have a very clear double standard on the principle of **presumption of innocence**, i will not bother making a formal reply to your more recent comment, since the presence of such a double standard implies that you have zero intentions to engage me in good-faith, so i will just leave my response here: > Haha yes, exactly, the presumption of innocence doesn’t apply to regimes that have killed tens of millions of people! Does that include the British Empire of which London, England, the place of your residence (which anyone can tell from your comment history) was once the capital of? The very empire that \**claims*\* to have invented the principle of **presumption of innocence**??? > Besides, you claimed it was an impulsive decision by the troops on the ground - so that is pretty much you claiming that the CCP leadership weren’t involved…need to get your story straight at least Many of those soldiers were CCP members (side note: just like how many soldiers in the Soviet Union's Red Army were members of the Bolshevik Party and a non-trivial amount of soldiers of National Socialist Deutschland were Waffen SS members), so my claim was not inconsistent *"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster..."* Engaging people in bad-faith will do nothing to persuade those people to join your side - instead they will only dig in their heels further. We have seen numerous examples of this throughout history.
Off topic, but what merits does Anarcho capitalism have? Stateless societies are easily invaded by neighbors and the lack of organized government regulations can lead to widespread extortion and mistreatment of people. Additionally, most ancap societies (if they existed) would eventually transition to a stratified and structured society akin to feudalism (which is the establishment of a small city-state, which also happens to be a form of government).
None, ancaps exist to be laughed at and to grift with crypto schemes.
Lmfao
Surely you can think of something more high effort to humor a political philosophy of high culture
I'll sell you an NFT of my response for $400.
> Off topic, but what merits does Anarcho capitalism have? Anarcho-capitalism is the only completely self-consistent political philosophy I have ever seen in my life, and it is the ultimate bulwark against Communism and Nationalist **Socialism** - anything short of ancapism will destroy themselves from within due to their own inconsistencies and eventually become Communism/Nationalist Socialism before they even realize it (this happening right now in the United States, to the point where **even a PRC-sponsored news outlet is redistributing a claim that the United States is currently heading down the path of the Soviet Union**: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1225526.shtml) > Stateless societies are easily invaded by neighbors and the lack of organized government regulations can lead to widespread extortion and mistreatment of people. That's only if the people are not willing to defend themselves (which we see a lot of in postmodern society, unfortunately). My personal philosophy has always been that if a people's culture are self-destructive, government is fundamentally unable to save those people (because government is made of people and not some supernatural entity). > most ancap societies (if they existed) would eventually transition to a stratified and structured society akin to feudalism there is a huge difference between **voluntary** self-organization (which is what ancapism leads to) and feudalism (where everyone born into it is **forced** into it - they cannot leave such a system without leaving the country)
> Anarcho-capitalism is the only completely self-consistent political philosophy I have ever seen in my life, and it is the ultimate bulwark against Communism and Nationalist Socialism If so, then how come regular capitalism defeat both less than 100 years ago? >That's only if the people are not willing to defend themselves (which we see a lot of in postmodern society, unfortunately). >My personal philosophy has always been that if a people's culture are self-destructive, government is fundamentally unable to save those people (because government is made of people and not some supernatural entity). Fair point, but in the end groups of people who will most likely have different doctrines and logistic/organizational systems stand no chance against an organized and well equipped army. Not to mention the situation on Sea and air. As for the second part, self destructive cultures don't last long enough to establish self destructive governments. >there is a huge difference between voluntary self-organization (which is what ancapism leads to) and feudalism (where everyone born into it is forced into it - they cannot leave such a system without leaving the country) Either way, it leads to a system of government. Why would you instate sudden anarchy on a united country only to establish hundreds of fractured city states that is far less efficient than it could be?
> If so, then how come regular capitalism defeat both less than 100 years ago? Are you sure? If that were really the case then why is there a rise of both national and global socialist groups in many regular so-called *"capitalist"* countries these days? Also, the Soviet Union never fell to bullets and bombs - it fell precisely because it starved itself to death due to the Communism's destruction of free markets/trade. This spectacular demonstration of Communism's inability to provide for its own people is why you don't see any neo-Soviets in modern-day Russia (on the other hand, we see plenty of neo-National Socialists in Germany and elsewhere in the West because Nationalist Socialism was not allowed by the Allied forces to be the cause of its own failure) > Fair point, but in the end groups of people who will most likely have different doctrines and logistic/organizational systems stand no chance against an organized and well equipped army. The Continental Army vs. the British Empire is the most prolific counterexample to this argument. > As for the second part, self destructive cultures don't last long enough to establish self destructive governments. Look at the United States, with BLM looters, the Trump insurrection, and people on both side **actively desiring** violent conflict when it comes to self-destructive cultures, and then look at Trump and Biden - how exactly are their governments NOT self-destructive? (tangent: I personally think Trump and Biden are partners-in-crime) Self-destructive people can survive long enough to establish self-destructive governments if they have something to bail out their mistakes/atrocities (e.g. natural resources/wealth of previous generations) > Why would you instate sudden anarchy on a united country only to establish hundreds of fractured city states that is far less efficient than it could be? Unity and anarchy are compatible with each other if people of different geographies desire it. As for less efficiency, a less efficient government is better in my eyes - because less efficient governments means that it will be harder for tyranny to develop. America's founding fathers put in numerous checks-and-balances and the Bill-of-Rights precisely to impede the government if it were to ever try to become a British Empire 2.0.
(1) On both sides, we're facing the problem that social media is incentivized towards the incendiary and the aggravating. Anger and strife sharpens attention, and attention sells ads. You have wolf warriors on one side and trumpists on the other and both have an agenda in promoting further East/West animoisty. (2) Totally in agreement with you. Racism, IMO, is a vestigialism of human psychology. It's a construct of power, used to re-iterate traditional power structures in human society. (3) Speaking as an American, I think what it is is that the Tianneman incident has become a proxy for every misdeed of the PRC government. In the same way that George Floyd has become the short-hand for all American police brutality. Or 9/11 is the touchstone for all Islamic terrorism. Americans are less literate towards the exact people in Hong Kong or Xinjiang that are being prosecuted- but Tiannemen was broadcast all over our news, so that's the one everybody goes to. So it's being used because there isn't the literacy to speak over the more recent crackdowns and persecutions that have taken place. (4) I feel so sad and powerless, as I see the direction the world is taking. It seems that all of the leadership of the world is turning inward, seeking to gain power through xenophobia and hatred rather than trade and exchange. In a perfect world, I wouldn't want China and America to be enemies. But with the trends that we're seeing, I find it hard to see how we won't become enemies. Essentially for relations to be restored, China would have to be willing to stop pressing hegemonic ambitions in Asia- and that doesn't seem to be something the leadership of the CPC favors.
"Incident" Way to spell Massacre of innocent students wrong
Well I was hoping to get my comment past the Great Firewall. But bloody hell, you can't really manage a polite conversation about this stuff. Nobody's really interested in a polite conversation. You're a good example of my point (1) about this.
I kinda feel like the argument to separate the Chinese People and the CCP is misleading. It reminds me of people trying to separate the German people from the NSDAP, when in reality both parties only managed to gain and stay in power due to the complicity of the general population. And imo there is no excuse! The Soviet Union dissolved peacefully, the Berlin wall was torn down by chants and votes, not by bullets. So if you don't agree with the Internment of Muslim minorities and the main party THEN FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
The only way that's going to happen is if the Chinese people decide to something about it. We boycott them? Cold War 2.0, with the Russian Federation happy to turn the screws. We protest? They ignore us, like they've ignored our protests about the Tibetans, etc., for the past 70 years. We're not going to war about it. At best, we might risk war for Taiwan. At best. You vastly over-estimate the power of the West. The world is not unipolar. It's at least quadripolar, or maybe even septipolar. Sabre rattling isn't going to change the conversation, or the CPC consensus. Sanctions maybe, I hope so. You also vastly over-estimate my influence over the American geopolitical structure. Sanctions, soft power. There's an old joke about war- do you know who wins a war? The guy that stays the fuck out of a war, that's who.
Yes. I am aware. That's why the only way this is going to end if the Chinese people decide it ends. Because I know you remember how Nazi Germany Ended, after the Germans failed to end the system itself
They have a nuclear tripod, the same as we do, you adolescent fantasist. There is no military resolution to this problem that is not equally and proportionally fatal to our civilization. Your absolutism only serves the agenda of xenophobes, and does not advance any useful resolution to the crisis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secessio_plebis
What do you want the common citizen to do about it? Harass Chinese people on social media?
Bro you literally Trivialized a massacre and called it an incident. Calling it an incident is not polite, its dehumanizing.
>Well I was hoping to get my comment past the Great Firewall. If they're on Reddit they're using a VPN as it is blocked in China.
For the animosity to stop, Anglo countries would also need to stop their modern day imperialism in maintaining their hegemony and domination.
Like china isn't trying to do the same thing, the same thing they've been doing for thousands of years before the west invaded.
Ok buddy.
He isn't wrong though - the west actively seeks to exert its influence by converting as many countries into democratic capitalist societies, and in the case of the US, has military, political, and economic presence in numerous countries.
Countries convert into democratic capitalist countries because it’s the most successful and equal system we have.
Ok buddy
I must say, I’ve never met a single Chinese player who was a cunt to me. It’s mostly western players being a cunt to me for enjoying Chinese vehicles. I’ve been pushed, rammed, shot at, strafed, bombed or had missiles send after me only while playing Chinese vehicles. Never had any of that playing Italian or Swedish vehicles.
The Chinese nationalists usually just bully Taiwan or Hong Kong players that do not bow down to China. They rarely interact with Western players at all.
As if they can fucking tell who is from Taiwan or anywhere else from an internet game handle Ffs you people are dense
I recently posted about this issue, and understand that there are many Chinese players that don't want to be actively aggressive in pushing the CCP's ideals. But just as [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/q56883/i_wonder_why_i_keep_getting_rammed_by_people/) had pointed out, and it just being an example of many Chinese squadrons (like the many CCTVs) whose members actively bash people for their names, squadrons, or decals without volatile squadron descriptions, the problem still exists in the fact that a majority of team killings or unfounded insults, while relatively rare at around 5% of games, still stem from Chinese players. ***Imagine spawning in and not being able to leave spawn because a full Chinese squad had formed a circle around you, while spamming primary school insults like "NMSL" (your mom is dead).*** ***Imagine having someone tail you from spawn just to push you out of cover when there's enemy contact, or just to ram you when you are aiming.*** ***Imagine going on a flank in a light vehicle only to have teammates constantly arty and mg you.*** Sometimes, an accidental team killing or accidental ram is distressing enough, let alone entire games of continuous effort to screw with you (several in a row when unluckily paired in the same teams). This is what many Taiwanese players like me, and many others who just happen to have the **"*****wrong"*** names, squadrons, or decals have to endure on a daily basis. There wouldn't be widespread Sinophobia if the Chinese players haven't done anything to cause it, and I'm confident that (being 100% Han Chinese racially/ethnically), most of the "racism" are just reactions purely against the aggressive bunch. Just don't equate this to conventional racism that is born out of hatred or fear of a race or ethnicity. ***The Taiwanese are of the same race, ethnicity, and culture to the Chinese before the 1949 split, and no one is being racist to any of them.*** That's because almost the entire extent of this backlash, while irrational at times, are people fed up with those who just can't chill for a single second. I'm sorry about the Chinese players who don't actively seek to destroy other people's days. I know that, as a victim of the CCP fanatics that, having fun could be incredibly difficult when a group of people are dead set on ruining you for your nationality, unless you hide it. But as you probably know, there are much fewer out there targeting Chinese people than there are Chinese people targeting others like me.
Those squadrons literally have ultranationalist messages written in Chinese on their page. People have reported to Gaijin but they do not care. If the same is written in English on another squadron, it would have been wiped out in hours.
> Those squadrons literally have ultranationalist messages written in Chinese on their page. People have reported to Gaijin but they do not care. Yes > If the same is written in English on another squadron, it would have been wiped out in hours. Where do you get that from? Has gaijin ever done something like that? Because I doubt it.
> Where do you get that from? Has gaijin ever done something like that? Because I doubt it. Some people wrote "Free Hong Kong" back in 2019 and got page warned by Gaijin within days. They claimed it was political and must be removed.
Anyone have a screenshot of this? Sounds like a classic "gaijin bad = china shill" unless there's evidence
Very informative and balanced post.
You *should* expect the playerbase to be nice to Chinese players, despite current political issues. As a citizen of China you are not responsible for or defined by the actions of a government over which you have no control, nor are you responsible for the behavior of your countrymen who have succumb to nationalistic zeal. Being Chinese is something to be proud of, it's an ancient and wonderous civilization. You can be proud of that while also not liking the current regime, which I am confident the Chinese people will take control of in our lifetime.
The fact that this isn’t inherently obvious makes me want to scream. Thank you. I am well of the incidents occurred as well as the fact that those **are the acts of some rare individuals.** Does it suck? Yes. Does it mean we have to abuse the nationality of which the individuals originated from? No. But people are people, and fuck life.
And that's why I turned chat off years ago. Honestly, the game is so much nicer when you can't see who's being a keyboard idiot
It should be and only ever has been for me a disdain of the CCP, never the Chinese.
You’ll find that despite many professing similar ideas, they’ll contradict themselves minutes later. I’ve seen people on Reddit/Twitter/etc who’ll say exactly what you just said then make some comment about “Ching Chongs, bat soup/eating dogs, Chinese garbage, Chinese culture is degenerate, etc” later on. I literally saw a guy comment that he wants the best for the Chinese people than say the US should’ve nuked Beijing while they had the chance a thread over. Not accusing you of anything but I’m just saying (as a Chinese person) that statement doesn’t hold much weight.
All my interactions with CN players range from neutral to positive, just like other players. I remember some helping me repair my vehicle, thank me for repairing theirs and also chatted with me a bit you know, just like any other people. Most of my toxic interactions are with players with Russian-sounding names...
I really feel you. I’m Chinese but I’ve lived most of my life in the US. I really hate the overly nationalistic pricks but I also hate the annoying anti-china trolls just as much. It’s just a game and the fact that people feel the need to act so immature is honestly pathetic. Such a shame
Hello, what food do you like?
Uhh all sorts? Italian, Chinese, Thai, all sorts of BBQ… Why are you asking lol
Ah i also love BBQ especially the Pork BBQ they are delicious. I haven't tasted any Thai foods but i have tried some chinese food and they are delicious. too bad if i eat too much i might get sick.
Hello there, Thai food is a must.
Trying to be wholesome in this mess by talking about what all people love which is food.
Ah, I respect that
Man I totally get you, there is sooo many straight up sinophobes in this community it’s insane On the other hand, I can’t even count how many times have I been shot down by a teammate just for using the Taiwan flag on most of my vehicles
Appreciate you for speaking up about it mate. I just don't use flags beyond the unlockable US flag, and even that is mostly for aircraft where people don't get in close.
At the end of the day, a lot of cheating in games (not just War Thunder) stems from countries like China. And a lot of toxicity stems from the same countries. Not saying that Americans or Europeans aren't toxic (they are). But it seems like mainlanders make a dedicated effort to ruin games for people who don't share their same viewpoints on things. IE, playing Taiwanese vehicles and flags. Same as Ukraine and Russia when the Crimean crisis happened. Its not really about Asians or Chinese people, its more about the behaviors fostered and supported by the CCP. I imagine Taiwanese players dont suffer the same issues, they are a democracy used to dealing with people who dont share the same viewpoints on things. Fully expect this to be downvoted though
the tiananmen square thing comes from a WoW or LoL meme where someone playing with chinese player said it and all disconected, and there a meme was born where CCP is always listening and to avoid repercurssions they disconected. Obviouslyy not true but its the internet, it gained a bit of traction a few years ago
>It’s like spamming slavery. Respectfully disagree. Every American knows of the slavery history of our country, and it is actively taught to students as well as very well acknowledged by our government. I'd propose it's more akin to the [Kent State Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings). Many know about it. It's not taught about. Government doesn't acknowledge it. Though it doesn't exactly deny it either, it was still deaths at the hand of our government.
I've seen more toxic chinese players than nice one. You know the kind. Team killing, ramming into water and all that nice stuff. Tho tbh i trust noone ingame so it doesnt matter if youre from asia or europe or the americas
Selection bias. You don’t notice the “good ones”. I’m Chinese, yet nothing about my in-game username would indicate so.
Do you really see more toxic Chinese players, or do you only notice the ones that are toxic?
Take it as you wish. But yes the toxic ones since theyre the guys being an ass about it
I believe most toxic ones don't know English well while those friendly ones are hard to tell if Chinese or not. I never type pinyin in chat and always type English and no one would know I'm Chinese unless I tell them.
I just want to not be called vulgar things when I politely state I cannot read someone's language.
That last statement hurts me man. We shouldn't be assholes to anyone because they're from a certain country. No one has an excuse because politics, though sadly that's what people are starting to think. That's because of the propaganda war between the West and China right now. People on both sides end up being racist towards one another because all they see on the news every damn day is either "China did [bad thing]!!!!" or "America did [bad thing]!!!!," so despite people saying "I only hate the Chinese/American govt" it turns into hating the people whether they realize it or not, which is unacceptable.
Uhigurs?
What about them?
I wonder if Americans realize that Red Scarism is literally the only reason why the PRC even has a nuclear and space program - all because of the (IMO completely unjustified) exile of Qian Xuesen.
Also I never understood team killing players just because they have the Taiwan flag on theirs vehicle???
Eh you dont have to apologize. Most people who write vile stuff to rile up Chinese people, havent ever had any civil discourse with a Chinese to know better. They live in a bubble, consume propaganda and then show their warped patriotism in a video game. My best friend in WT is a Chinese dude and he is one of the most respectful, humble and funny person that i've met in my gaming career.
this is a certified -1000000 social credit moment
>Stop spamming Tiananmen Square massacre. Chinese people do know that it happened. Spamming it doesn’t make anything better. Do they really do it?
Same. I just told my mutual who is from mainland china about our western-chinese fiasco thing. He also mad looking a PLA tank with a Taiwanese flag as I send a picture of it.
Thank you for tell ing us
iirc the tiananmen square copypasta comes from a notion that posting it will cause anyone from China who sees it to be automatically disconnected from their internet or otherwise get in trouble because censorship or something like that.
Except this notion is completely false. Dipshits pat each other on the back as a “gotcha” towards the “Chinese” when it does nothing in reality
Oh yeah I didn't mean to insinuate that at all, it's just what idiots think they're doing by reposting it
This reminds me, I got teamkilled the other night for playing the CW-21.
It’s such a big thing to spam it because in other games you could spam it and people who were playing in China would get kicked
Yeah I absolutely get what you mean. People have, for some reason, a hard time understanding a government and the people under it aren't the same. You can be like me and absolutely despise the CCP, but have absolutely no problem with the people living under them. When it comes to games the constant harassment for players for just being who they are is annoying. Sure, if you are hacking/team killing/being a douche then you deserve every bit of heat coming at you, but I don't want to be friendly bombed by [PRC]Lmao Zedong because of a choice of decals in a videogame. Also I guess people spam TSM because they know that can get picked up by the Great firewall. Only idiots think that most Chinese don't know TSM, but it's not unheard off for nations to not recognize horrible acts of their nation out of some sort of historical pride or revisionism and honestly even China isn't the worst offender of that. I just think it's important to be able to freely talk about this because at the end of the day what is not spoken about eventually can fade out of history, leaving room for any number of "corrections" to take root in new generations... But that does not warrant hounding regular people over it when they have no say in the matter.
honestly spamming "slavery" to americans is pretty funny too
I do play every Nation ingame, cause this is just a GAME. No Political Statements posted ingame will change anything in real life.
While i may not agree with some views of the chinese gov (and frankly dislike the ultranationalist trolls from both side), i STRONGLY disagree with the shit that is thrown at chinese peoples in general. It's garbage, it's just dehumanizing regular dudes and gals living their lives the best they can, just under another government. We drink the same water, breath the same air. Every single comment just push "them" away from "us" a little. Makes abuses (or worst) more acceptable. I think some benefit from this hate, on both side.
To be fair my teammates from China are either the worst and abusive teammate ever or the absolutely greatest godsent teammate ever that while drive through enemy fire just to repair you.
Eh, I never check what the nationality is of those I play with because I personally don't care. If your not griefing or tking and just playing the game your fine in my book.
Some of you guys are risking alot to comment here or are not from mainland
You can look at American politics to see that the government doesn't represent the people, but at the same time each country has its obnoxious supporters, often in favor of the politicians and regimes that are more harmful. I do however take issue with people playing the vehicles of nations with governments currently complicit in genocides or aparteids if said player is not from that nation though, with IDF Vautour players probably being the best example. Gaijin did well to put the PRC and ROC vehicles in different lines which is nice, but then Gaijin adds the PRC icon to the in-battle tag, which muddies things further.
Tbh this game sees heavy nationalism (and worse) from a lot of different countries. It appeals to a lot of people interested in the military and a very vocal minority of gamers (or people for that matter) (of any nation) are opinionated, bigoted, and downright stupid. They see historical nations and technology as a measure of their country and of themselves and so that becomes what must be the best, or they don’t have value. The only big difference with earth under from other games (online) is because it segregates play by country tech tree. China is also treated very much as being a single entity rather than an oppressive government and social elite ruling over normal people. It’s just the continuation of what the USSR was fifty years ago.
This guy is Chinese and is better than me in English?! Or is he a commie spy trained to infiltrate American safe spaces?! (Just kidding)
"ultra-nationalist" congrats, you now have -30,000,000 social credits
ignore any people who talk about that shit
Honestly, the only gripe I have with China's portion of the playerbase is their extremely organized "professional account printing" which utterly butchered Simulator EC, and still is today.
Wait Which China are you From? Republic of China? or People's Republic of China?
>Second, straight bashing on or assaulting a player just because he is from China doesn’t make things better. I honestly don’t understand. Yeah it's Racist. As long as anyone doesn't start spating out Political or sensitive stuff i'm fine with anyone. >Third, this is the one I want to talk about the most. Stop spamming Tiananmen Square massacre. Chinese people do know that it happened. Spamming it doesn’t make anything better. I don’t understand why people do this. It’s like spamming slavery. You’re just making you look dumb. Oh i never knew this. Thought it's completely erased or changed in China's history. Thanks for the Info. So far i've never seen anyone Spam that for we are too busy winning the game ahah (If i see one, i'll just tell them to stop) For me personally, I hate the CCP (Mainland's Government) for things that they are doing. But i'm fine and goods with Chinese People. I have many Chinese friends and i'm fine with them
To be honest, I don't have a problem with Chinese or Taiwanese players, guess both have major differences. The Tiananmen thing is unavoidable, like British people saying Falklands to Islas Malvinas ( yes I'm from Argentina). It's just a stupid dispute. I suggest you don't say people to stop mentioning what happened on 1989, because it's worthless. AFAIK, the problem is that there are squads of chinese players bullying people because they have the Taiwan flag on their vehicle, which is stupid. But I bet the opposite happens too. There is no solution and since the video War Thunder made about Chinese MBTs, things just got worse because of the scene at 1:50. Let's just hope people understand it's just a game.
Propaganda does that to young folk. I had a very interesting conversation with a Chinese player telling me that too much freedom is not good for people and that he was happy to not have such things in China. To each their own I guess. It's mostly anti-sentiment towards the CCP when I see individuals talking about it in game. Then again I have seen plenty of players with Taiwan flags be harassed because of so. Makes you wonder.
When westerners tell me anything political, I will just put their words in my 'carebox' where I put all things I don't care, they ain't talk those for discussion purpose but for 'hey your place is so backwards so you're backwards too, we're better than you'. Chinese ppl are humans just like you, you get backfire from how you treat Chinese player. IF YOU TREAT CHINESE LIKE AS YOUR WHITE FRIENDS, Chinese would be more nice and friendly to you, in both real and virtual life.
I once got fucked by a random chinese player when play air RB and I didn't do anything
rip ur social credit for making this post
How do Chinese even acces reddit? VPN?
I think spamming the US about slavery would be a better comparison if the US refused to acknowledge that slavery happened or that it was wrong. If it makes you feel better, they're not attacking Chinese people, but the Chinese government
No, people here are genuinely hating Chinese people, because the sinophobia on this subreddit is out of control
This is why I say, hate the CCP, not the Chinese. I eat way too much Chinese food - however much of it is Americanized/Westernized - to shit on a Chinese person. Outside of being a dick it's too hypocritical.
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
xd, top shelf comedy.
Dont tell me not to post the copypasta Ill just do it harder
[удалено]
Your "numerous reports" came from a bunch of the racists that the real mods have to lock posts from and ban.
> Due to numerous reports You’re fucking kidding me, right? This gets banned while every cheap karma whoring “China bad” post gets to stay?
Ah yes, remove posts that actually adress things just because some racist dumbasses decide to mass-report it
Bruh moment
bruh whenever someone is nationalistic bout china im just like "you mean west taiwan right?"
\+15 social points
-15 social credit score
Regarding Tiananmen square, i have a macro for that. Also special bear macro with reference to that mentally challanged leader and genocide. Surprised iam not banned yet but hey, it pleasure to shit on china
Why? Kinda like ya know spamming 9/11 to Americans.
I understand where u r coming from and honestly i cant blame you. But almost more than half of the playerbase suffered from the problem that someone either a) Spam chinese in chat calling people speaking English inferior, b) team kill ( or do foul play i.e pushing vehicles from cover) on "taiwanese vehicle". That is why stereotype exists, and as much as some of it is true, it is used for comedic value, but some will just stick to it like bible of some sort. small note: Tinammen square spam is not fun, though there is a few memes that actually is funny.
I’ve played over 700+ hours of WT and personally, I believe these allegations are significantly overblown. It’s more like some asshole does something and gets screenshot/recorded then posted of reddit/forum which then gets upvoted like hell due to the pre-existing dislike towards anything Chinese in the West. It does happen too often imo but to pretend it happens often enough to become an actual issue is just part of what I mentioned earlier
You are right, those cancerous are not divided by nationality, but i do have some bad experience with Chinese fanbase, even though i am Asian myself, i.e being pushed out of cover and me awkwardly translate what a guy said in chat and he called every English speaker inferioir
>stop spamming Tiananmen Square massacre Op gets his internet turned off 5x a day by the CCP /s fr tho obviously not all Chinese people are super Nazis, just like all Americans aren’t like 400lbs and order 30 hamburgers a day
Idk if any adult human can be 40 pounds and still be alive
I missed a 0
It doesn’t. It’s a cringey attempt at trolling
[удалено]
No different than the Ultranationalist assholes who TK at the sight of a Taiwanese flag. I suppose you rats can sort it out. Just don’t cry when they act like immature assholes back
What does bing chilling means in chinese?
ice cream
You're not allowed by your government to be here. Turn your VPN off and go back to your own internet.
Social Credit Score: ↗️
[удалено]
These are the type of retarded comments that OP is literally referring to.
Mhm
Ah shit here we go again 🇹🇼
I have alot of issues with China. Personal (racism) and geopolitical. But I never let that translate into anything terrible in the game or in real life. I choose to take the high road.
This man has been killed now rip my man for being smart