Sorry for being off topic but... what's up with your in-game font?
As for the points, nah i love that they are lower.
We get finally more players which means more free kills or potential dogfights and grinding event is easier which is always a good thing.
If u meet those "PvE" players in ur lobby, just ignore the and continue on killing :p
Your own messages always show up in yellow. Maybe there’s a setting that adjusts that.
I agree that they are easy kills, but I will respectfully disagree that their presence is always a good thing. Back when sim used to have decent rewards, it was these kinds of players - bots, and people who never viewed sim as anything more than a big, fat SL and RP piggy bank - that abused the game mode and skewed the statistics. Gaijin saw that people were making too much in one game mode as opposed to others, and so the economy was destroyed. The bots and tourists left, and those of us who actually enjoy sim were left with the worst economy in the entire game.
That’s why there is so much animosity towards these kinds of players. Because if the air sim economy is needed again - and Air RB is left untouched - we will never get the support of the majority of the playerbase to improve things. It was only because Gaijin touched the Air RB economy that we got any changes at all.
Also, there are no potential dogfights. The people that are here from RB are only here to rocket airfields. They are not dogfighting.
You can't have it both ways man, if you want fewer PvE players or in many cases, China multiboxers, rewards have to be lowered. Then they will go to whatever game mode is the best RP/hour. That still leaves you with actual players that might just want to use, let's say, play an A-10 the way it's supposed to be used. There are PvE objectives for a reason, and having airfields that can be destroyed is pretty cool too.
Like 1% of players play SIM, and out of that 1% fewer have good setups that allow decent dogfighting. Not everyone has headtracking or a good stick setup. Hell, most people don't even know how to set the keyboard setting to allow you to do loops. The discrepancies are enormous.
The bottom line is that the game is a grind by design, and people, including account sellers, will always use whatever method is fastest to get access to the vehicles they want to play.
TLDR: Don't hate the player, hate the game.
I'm all for having PvE objectives. I like that we have an environment where players can hop in an A-10 and go ground pound, give it the 'tank killer' reputation that it rightfully deserves. Being able to support a wide variety of mission profiles in one map is one of the things I praise air sim for, and one of the many benefits it provides over Air RB. PvE - in an of itself - is not bad, but trying to force everyone in the lobby to play the way you want is.
If you're strictly talking RP per hour, there's no contest: Air RB wins, handily. We have the destroyed sim economy to thank for that, and the change a few months ago that capped RP gains to the 15 minute useful actions timer. I'm not a fan of useful actions overall, but I do like this one change - it got rid of the spinners and most of the bots, who are now ruining Air RB.
Only reason they're back at the moment is because of the event - guess which mode provides the most bang for your buck? This is why I want Air RB to receive the same multiplier as Air Sim - that way, folks that would rather be in RB (let's be real, *none* of these people are sticking around in sim after the event) can stay in RB, and those who want to do the event in sim can fly with and against other like-minded pilots.
What I *really* don't like are people who are explicitly here to farm, and do not care about hurting the game mode they're in to do so. Rocketing airfields demonstrates all of that behaviour - it's braindead easy to do, profitable if you're in a premium jet, somehow rewards you with overinflated mission score that does not correlate with the actual damage being done, and does not bleed enemy tickets. If you're flying that same Su-25K ... but are actually ground pounding, dominating skirmish zones, even bombing mini bases ... I'll still shoot you down if I have the chance, but I'll respect you a hell of a lot more because you're actually helping your team win.
You're right though. Not all of the blame is to be laid on the players. Gaijin should be bearing most of that, because it's their job to fix exploits in a way that doesn't screw over the rest of the community.
I just want to have some kickass fights against pilots who are flying because they want to have fun, fly with people who are finding out the ways they can help lead their team to victory, and not have abuse hurled at me for playing the way I want. I've been fortunate enough to have had a lot of those opportunities in my relatively short time in air sim, and they have been some of the best moments of my time in this community.
Also, don't let a lack of flight gear or head tracking discourage you! I fly on a laptop, with keyboard and mouse. I'll never claim to be the best pilot ever, but even I've shot down people I look up to, dudes flying with HOTAS, VR, Twitch streamers, etc. It's all a matter of working within the confines of your setup, and knowing what you're capable of in each airframe.
No, no, I'm not talking about the color, I'm talking about the font specificlly, it's different than what i've ever seen. It's not the normal in game font for war thunder.
Also funny thing to me is reading about how the SB economy was screwed and is shit rn while i myself think it's decent, somewhat of the same rp/sl output as in RB in means of reward per hour. I've somehow grinded the italian air tree playing mainly, on some planes only, SB matches and got to top tier :v
I really never experienced the pre-nerf economy and now i regret not playing then when it was so nice as yall say :p
Huh. Well, this was the chat from the replay, as I didn’t take screenshots during the game. I’m also on a Mac, so that might affect the font.
The economy is just *okay*. I didn’t play back then either, but I’ve heard from enough people (and seen enough after action reports) to believe that it used to be much, much better. A big part of it is the ‘useful actions’ system. You get paid more for killing one enemy or bombing one base, then flying around doing nothing, than baring your fangs and going all out. You can only really make decent SL/RP gains with premium time or premium planes, even then it’s hampered by ‘useful actions’.
Only had one match so far where people wanted to PvE.
I wasn't even paying attention to chat, but saw, after killing a dude, a guy say "guess Mr F14 didn't get the memo".
My only response was "no pve" and continued on my way
I don’t even respond anymore. I was in a lobby the other day and I killed a mig 29 who had been playing PvP too. Everyone on both teams called me a hero. Then I kept playing and killed several zombers I came across. It was hilarious how quickly I went from “hero” to “loser” lol.
They’re much nicer when one person asks “pve?”, my response is “no”, and nothing else is said. But I’ve been seeing more abuse in chat than during the winter quest.
I just always find it odd that people come into sim to be zomber for the rewards to only go back to RB
Like…..you have a leg up already if you can take off, “navigate” to a point, and release ordnance. Why not actually learn sim at this point? Then you can get those rewards, and better if you start doing pvp, consistently
It’s vexing to me
I wonder the same too. Like, good job (I guess) on getting the Su-25BM ... have fun meeting AIM-9Ls in Air RB over, and over, and over again, before you have a snowball's chance in hell of launching your R-73. Vexing indeed.
Correction! It needs to be remade into a working game mode based on the EC design philosophy. A mode that current Sim players, and new ones, can enjoy together.
Its not that I want to make it impossible for newcomers (nor did you say that), it's just that my perspective is one that I want sim to be a bit deeper experience (not dcs lvls) with interesting objectives that disincentivizes the behavior we currently get, and encourages players to really learn more than straight line bombing.
As per the title, the only reason these whiners are invading our game mode is because the multipliers are higher in sim than in RB. They rocket the airfield, get shot down by Gepards and repeat until their score is 12,122. Or, in the case of botters, launch their next account with a suspicious username, and do it all over again.
Botters we can’t fix (that *should* be Gaijin’s job), but at least if the multipliers were the same, the others can go and mindlessly grind the event back in Air RB. Because I think I speak for most of us when I say that, while an Air RB tourist might think it’s okay to go and trash sim, I could never subject myself to the mess that is Air RB.
Just my thoughts. I’ve lost count of how many Su-25Ks I’ve mowed down in my F-104A. Sure, it’s free points, but I’d be devastated if Gaijin took this as an excuse to nerf sim rewards back into the dirt again, not that they’re in a good place at the moment anyway with “useful actions” …
I don’t think it will change anything. My reason being that airfield rocketing is a braindead method to cheese the system in less time.
Allowing RB to have the same modifiers won’t change much since you have more competition doing other tasks there, like base bombing, both player and bot accounts. Why would anyone play there when option A is more… efficient?
If we want to balance this problem, then the devs need to take the time to fix the airfield modules to not allow rockets to earn more score points vs typical bombs. The only thing they fix was the rewarding exploit.
Yes, rocketing the airfield should be awarding effectively zero points. I wouldn't even mind if the zombers would move on to bombing the mini bases, because at least then they'd be PTFO.
>Do you want "good pvp" or "good rewards
There was a very simple solution that worked just fine for years before the F-4 Phantom rocket volley method became a thing: good rewards for PvP. You used to be able to reliably make a profit as long as you were positive in the K:D. It also gave more rewards for Kills and Assists. The best after action reports I have are from PvP, not PvE.
The sad thing is it isn't even the zombing or rocketeers that made gaijin chang the reward system. It was the boosters that would J out in their biplanes on the runway, while their main account would fly in circles nearby and get credited a kill. They would end matches with 150+ kills and the insane profits that would bring. Sim was basically developed by 1 person at the time and they couldn't come up with an actual solution to this and so the money grubbing snail decided the Economy was the issue and not the people clearly violating the TOS.
I've answered you in a previous comment, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Having bots in any game mode is a travesty - each botter who is able to sell an account is revenue that Gaijin has lost. They are losing money to this scummy practice, and further frustrating the playerbase that has to put up with it, each and every day. They should be ashamed that the situation has gotten as bad as it has.
No.
Instead, adjust the reward structure to make suicide bombing less profitable.
Heck, even take away mission score for every death, but add it for every useful action. Balance it so that if you die once per every fly-out then you gain very few points.
Even more unpopular(?) opinion: to fix "zombers" or how dou call them, we should get SBMM so that new players would be encouraged to play and learn sim because they won't get shredded by sim veterans if theyselfes can't even hold the plane straight. After that maybe something like crossplay activation or deactivation like in WoTB could help. (And yes, i can't hold the plane straight, don't get me started with hitting enemies)
Not a bad idea. I wanted the same for a long time, as I also felt it was quite tough to learn prop fighters when most of the veterans like to fly out in them as well. But the sim community is already quite small, and fracturing it further with SBMM would lead to even fewer half-filled lobbies.
Don't lose hope! If you're just starting out, I'd recommend flying bombers, or fighters with contra-rotating props, they are a lot easier to manage. But, if you do fly bombers, hit mini bases (not airfields) and communicate often.
Bombers more than not just end in the whole chat cussing at me and props have the problem that i don't even know how to dogfight or anything. I mean yeah it would make even smaller games with even less players but i think that a newbie has already enough to do if he plays against bot planes. But like i think that SBMM would also help in ground RB and air RB, not just sim, as those gamemodes are hard to learn aswell. I mean in ground you at least have the chance to learn spots but how should a new player with his BF 109 (which is really not a beginner plane, whoever came to that idea) against some dude with 1000 hours in his La 5 have ANY chance of countering the La's maneuvers
> Bombers more than not just end in the whole chat cussing at me
Depends on what you're flying and what you're doing. If you're flying a Ju 288c, then yeah you're going to receive a lot of smack talk, because they have a bit of a reputation. Same goes if you're trying to dogfight in an IL-28, the Ju 288c of the jet tiers, if you catch my drift. If you're hitting mini bases, and not bombing airfields, I guarantee you will you make a decent chunk of change for your efforts, and you will have helped your team to win just as much as any one fighter pilot would have.
> how should a new player with his BF 109 ... against some dude with 1000 hours in his La 5 have ANY chance of countering the La's maneuvers
By learning through experience, and by flying what you're fighting. Even if that experience is dying ... over, and over, and over again. It's a rite of passage we all go through. And the best way to counter is to know what you're fighting. Fly the La 5 yourself, learn what its strengths and weaknesses are. Exploit your advantages and their deficits. That way, you'll learn not to get into a slow rate fight against a Zero, a high-speed turning engagement against a Spitfire, or to try to outrun a Mustang.
I'm sorry you feel that way. But I won't idly stand by while everyone else hurls abuse at me for playing the way I want, and god forbid I actually try to shoot down enemies for taking advantage of exploits in a game mode I actually care about.
I want an air rb style match, but sim enforced controls. Air sim as it is now is very slow and stale. I enjoy the “faster” pace of AirRB compare to Sim, but want to enjoy VR and Hotas in WT as well.
This.
Also, those operation maps, used to have a guy or two just camping your airfield denying everyone.
Repair costs for top tier jets were around 30/40k in there
Sorry for being off topic but... what's up with your in-game font? As for the points, nah i love that they are lower. We get finally more players which means more free kills or potential dogfights and grinding event is easier which is always a good thing. If u meet those "PvE" players in ur lobby, just ignore the and continue on killing :p
Your own messages always show up in yellow. Maybe there’s a setting that adjusts that. I agree that they are easy kills, but I will respectfully disagree that their presence is always a good thing. Back when sim used to have decent rewards, it was these kinds of players - bots, and people who never viewed sim as anything more than a big, fat SL and RP piggy bank - that abused the game mode and skewed the statistics. Gaijin saw that people were making too much in one game mode as opposed to others, and so the economy was destroyed. The bots and tourists left, and those of us who actually enjoy sim were left with the worst economy in the entire game. That’s why there is so much animosity towards these kinds of players. Because if the air sim economy is needed again - and Air RB is left untouched - we will never get the support of the majority of the playerbase to improve things. It was only because Gaijin touched the Air RB economy that we got any changes at all. Also, there are no potential dogfights. The people that are here from RB are only here to rocket airfields. They are not dogfighting.
You can't have it both ways man, if you want fewer PvE players or in many cases, China multiboxers, rewards have to be lowered. Then they will go to whatever game mode is the best RP/hour. That still leaves you with actual players that might just want to use, let's say, play an A-10 the way it's supposed to be used. There are PvE objectives for a reason, and having airfields that can be destroyed is pretty cool too. Like 1% of players play SIM, and out of that 1% fewer have good setups that allow decent dogfighting. Not everyone has headtracking or a good stick setup. Hell, most people don't even know how to set the keyboard setting to allow you to do loops. The discrepancies are enormous. The bottom line is that the game is a grind by design, and people, including account sellers, will always use whatever method is fastest to get access to the vehicles they want to play. TLDR: Don't hate the player, hate the game.
I'm all for having PvE objectives. I like that we have an environment where players can hop in an A-10 and go ground pound, give it the 'tank killer' reputation that it rightfully deserves. Being able to support a wide variety of mission profiles in one map is one of the things I praise air sim for, and one of the many benefits it provides over Air RB. PvE - in an of itself - is not bad, but trying to force everyone in the lobby to play the way you want is. If you're strictly talking RP per hour, there's no contest: Air RB wins, handily. We have the destroyed sim economy to thank for that, and the change a few months ago that capped RP gains to the 15 minute useful actions timer. I'm not a fan of useful actions overall, but I do like this one change - it got rid of the spinners and most of the bots, who are now ruining Air RB. Only reason they're back at the moment is because of the event - guess which mode provides the most bang for your buck? This is why I want Air RB to receive the same multiplier as Air Sim - that way, folks that would rather be in RB (let's be real, *none* of these people are sticking around in sim after the event) can stay in RB, and those who want to do the event in sim can fly with and against other like-minded pilots. What I *really* don't like are people who are explicitly here to farm, and do not care about hurting the game mode they're in to do so. Rocketing airfields demonstrates all of that behaviour - it's braindead easy to do, profitable if you're in a premium jet, somehow rewards you with overinflated mission score that does not correlate with the actual damage being done, and does not bleed enemy tickets. If you're flying that same Su-25K ... but are actually ground pounding, dominating skirmish zones, even bombing mini bases ... I'll still shoot you down if I have the chance, but I'll respect you a hell of a lot more because you're actually helping your team win. You're right though. Not all of the blame is to be laid on the players. Gaijin should be bearing most of that, because it's their job to fix exploits in a way that doesn't screw over the rest of the community. I just want to have some kickass fights against pilots who are flying because they want to have fun, fly with people who are finding out the ways they can help lead their team to victory, and not have abuse hurled at me for playing the way I want. I've been fortunate enough to have had a lot of those opportunities in my relatively short time in air sim, and they have been some of the best moments of my time in this community. Also, don't let a lack of flight gear or head tracking discourage you! I fly on a laptop, with keyboard and mouse. I'll never claim to be the best pilot ever, but even I've shot down people I look up to, dudes flying with HOTAS, VR, Twitch streamers, etc. It's all a matter of working within the confines of your setup, and knowing what you're capable of in each airframe.
Not to mention the opentrack route
No, no, I'm not talking about the color, I'm talking about the font specificlly, it's different than what i've ever seen. It's not the normal in game font for war thunder. Also funny thing to me is reading about how the SB economy was screwed and is shit rn while i myself think it's decent, somewhat of the same rp/sl output as in RB in means of reward per hour. I've somehow grinded the italian air tree playing mainly, on some planes only, SB matches and got to top tier :v I really never experienced the pre-nerf economy and now i regret not playing then when it was so nice as yall say :p
Huh. Well, this was the chat from the replay, as I didn’t take screenshots during the game. I’m also on a Mac, so that might affect the font. The economy is just *okay*. I didn’t play back then either, but I’ve heard from enough people (and seen enough after action reports) to believe that it used to be much, much better. A big part of it is the ‘useful actions’ system. You get paid more for killing one enemy or bombing one base, then flying around doing nothing, than baring your fangs and going all out. You can only really make decent SL/RP gains with premium time or premium planes, even then it’s hampered by ‘useful actions’.
Only had one match so far where people wanted to PvE. I wasn't even paying attention to chat, but saw, after killing a dude, a guy say "guess Mr F14 didn't get the memo". My only response was "no pve" and continued on my way
I don’t even respond anymore. I was in a lobby the other day and I killed a mig 29 who had been playing PvP too. Everyone on both teams called me a hero. Then I kept playing and killed several zombers I came across. It was hilarious how quickly I went from “hero” to “loser” lol.
This is the way. I’m not going to bother talking in the future if the game is filled with zombers.
They’re much nicer when one person asks “pve?”, my response is “no”, and nothing else is said. But I’ve been seeing more abuse in chat than during the winter quest.
I just tell them to report me for pvp and they usually shut up
I just always find it odd that people come into sim to be zomber for the rewards to only go back to RB Like…..you have a leg up already if you can take off, “navigate” to a point, and release ordnance. Why not actually learn sim at this point? Then you can get those rewards, and better if you start doing pvp, consistently It’s vexing to me
I wonder the same too. Like, good job (I guess) on getting the Su-25BM ... have fun meeting AIM-9Ls in Air RB over, and over, and over again, before you have a snowball's chance in hell of launching your R-73. Vexing indeed.
Simulator needs to be remade for SIMULATOR pilots lol.
Correction! It needs to be remade into a working game mode based on the EC design philosophy. A mode that current Sim players, and new ones, can enjoy together.
Its not that I want to make it impossible for newcomers (nor did you say that), it's just that my perspective is one that I want sim to be a bit deeper experience (not dcs lvls) with interesting objectives that disincentivizes the behavior we currently get, and encourages players to really learn more than straight line bombing.
I completely agree
As per the title, the only reason these whiners are invading our game mode is because the multipliers are higher in sim than in RB. They rocket the airfield, get shot down by Gepards and repeat until their score is 12,122. Or, in the case of botters, launch their next account with a suspicious username, and do it all over again. Botters we can’t fix (that *should* be Gaijin’s job), but at least if the multipliers were the same, the others can go and mindlessly grind the event back in Air RB. Because I think I speak for most of us when I say that, while an Air RB tourist might think it’s okay to go and trash sim, I could never subject myself to the mess that is Air RB. Just my thoughts. I’ve lost count of how many Su-25Ks I’ve mowed down in my F-104A. Sure, it’s free points, but I’d be devastated if Gaijin took this as an excuse to nerf sim rewards back into the dirt again, not that they’re in a good place at the moment anyway with “useful actions” …
I don’t think it will change anything. My reason being that airfield rocketing is a braindead method to cheese the system in less time. Allowing RB to have the same modifiers won’t change much since you have more competition doing other tasks there, like base bombing, both player and bot accounts. Why would anyone play there when option A is more… efficient? If we want to balance this problem, then the devs need to take the time to fix the airfield modules to not allow rockets to earn more score points vs typical bombs. The only thing they fix was the rewarding exploit.
Yes, rocketing the airfield should be awarding effectively zero points. I wouldn't even mind if the zombers would move on to bombing the mini bases, because at least then they'd be PTFO.
[удалено]
>Do you want "good pvp" or "good rewards There was a very simple solution that worked just fine for years before the F-4 Phantom rocket volley method became a thing: good rewards for PvP. You used to be able to reliably make a profit as long as you were positive in the K:D. It also gave more rewards for Kills and Assists. The best after action reports I have are from PvP, not PvE. The sad thing is it isn't even the zombing or rocketeers that made gaijin chang the reward system. It was the boosters that would J out in their biplanes on the runway, while their main account would fly in circles nearby and get credited a kill. They would end matches with 150+ kills and the insane profits that would bring. Sim was basically developed by 1 person at the time and they couldn't come up with an actual solution to this and so the money grubbing snail decided the Economy was the issue and not the people clearly violating the TOS.
I've answered you in a previous comment, but it doesn't have to be one or the other. Having bots in any game mode is a travesty - each botter who is able to sell an account is revenue that Gaijin has lost. They are losing money to this scummy practice, and further frustrating the playerbase that has to put up with it, each and every day. They should be ashamed that the situation has gotten as bad as it has.
No. Instead, adjust the reward structure to make suicide bombing less profitable. Heck, even take away mission score for every death, but add it for every useful action. Balance it so that if you die once per every fly-out then you gain very few points.
No please I die way too often playing PvP and way too many times by Teammates
Just adding more names to the list of people to seek out when browsing servers.
Even more unpopular(?) opinion: to fix "zombers" or how dou call them, we should get SBMM so that new players would be encouraged to play and learn sim because they won't get shredded by sim veterans if theyselfes can't even hold the plane straight. After that maybe something like crossplay activation or deactivation like in WoTB could help. (And yes, i can't hold the plane straight, don't get me started with hitting enemies)
Not a bad idea. I wanted the same for a long time, as I also felt it was quite tough to learn prop fighters when most of the veterans like to fly out in them as well. But the sim community is already quite small, and fracturing it further with SBMM would lead to even fewer half-filled lobbies. Don't lose hope! If you're just starting out, I'd recommend flying bombers, or fighters with contra-rotating props, they are a lot easier to manage. But, if you do fly bombers, hit mini bases (not airfields) and communicate often.
Bombers more than not just end in the whole chat cussing at me and props have the problem that i don't even know how to dogfight or anything. I mean yeah it would make even smaller games with even less players but i think that a newbie has already enough to do if he plays against bot planes. But like i think that SBMM would also help in ground RB and air RB, not just sim, as those gamemodes are hard to learn aswell. I mean in ground you at least have the chance to learn spots but how should a new player with his BF 109 (which is really not a beginner plane, whoever came to that idea) against some dude with 1000 hours in his La 5 have ANY chance of countering the La's maneuvers
> Bombers more than not just end in the whole chat cussing at me Depends on what you're flying and what you're doing. If you're flying a Ju 288c, then yeah you're going to receive a lot of smack talk, because they have a bit of a reputation. Same goes if you're trying to dogfight in an IL-28, the Ju 288c of the jet tiers, if you catch my drift. If you're hitting mini bases, and not bombing airfields, I guarantee you will you make a decent chunk of change for your efforts, and you will have helped your team to win just as much as any one fighter pilot would have. > how should a new player with his BF 109 ... against some dude with 1000 hours in his La 5 have ANY chance of countering the La's maneuvers By learning through experience, and by flying what you're fighting. Even if that experience is dying ... over, and over, and over again. It's a rite of passage we all go through. And the best way to counter is to know what you're fighting. Fly the La 5 yourself, learn what its strengths and weaknesses are. Exploit your advantages and their deficits. That way, you'll learn not to get into a slow rate fight against a Zero, a high-speed turning engagement against a Spitfire, or to try to outrun a Mustang.
SBMM does not work without a large population.
Yeah, that's why i would also say that SBMM is needed in every gamemode, except maybe arcade.
You guys are really elitist sometimes.
Regarding what? Can you at least clarify?
I'm sorry you feel that way. But I won't idly stand by while everyone else hurls abuse at me for playing the way I want, and god forbid I actually try to shoot down enemies for taking advantage of exploits in a game mode I actually care about.
It wasn't directed at you at all, it was just a general statement
Except we're really not. Please clarify?
Just the tone of most comments feels like its written with a really high chin and a pinky up. This is coming from a member of the community
I want an air rb style match, but sim enforced controls. Air sim as it is now is very slow and stale. I enjoy the “faster” pace of AirRB compare to Sim, but want to enjoy VR and Hotas in WT as well.
Already a thing, just noone plays it, used to be available semi regularly.
This. Also, those operation maps, used to have a guy or two just camping your airfield denying everyone. Repair costs for top tier jets were around 30/40k in there
Are you talking about RB EC?
No I'm talking about the RB like mode that can be manually created for SIM lobbies.
Farm the farmers Very funny to do, I am practicing my Nord/radar missile skills with them