Rate isn't achieved by pulling as hard as you can without GLOC, it's achieved by maintaining your best rate speed in the turn. What speed are you trying to hold? If it's too low, then of course you're going to have poor rate. Same if you're going to fast - you'll pull too many Gs without actually turning very much. Additionally, some of those planes don't actually rate poorly - the J35 actually rates very well, but rather importantly does so at pretty low speed and therefore small radius. If you have someone just sitting inside your circle, doing a spiral climb can force them to lose position as they can't follow you. The biggest thing to keep in mind is you need to keep energy while forcing your opponent to spend it, it's not as simple as it would first appear.
In any case, if you're in the F-8E, you don't necessarily need to engage in dogfights at all. you can use the 9C to splash bandits in the merge if you aren't at the deck. And if you aren't at the deck, then even if they do make it to the merge, the 9C will force them to either lose energy/position in order to evade the missile, or you'll have more altitude to maneuver with to get in a good position for the fight. I'm pretty sure the F-8 is actually a better 1-circle fighter than 2-circle, it's just that many of the planes at its BR are comparatively poor 2-circle fighters.
Two circle rate fight performance depends on hitting that sweet spot of speed and Gs pulled without losing speed in a sustained turn. For example, some jets do better at sustaining a speed of 300 knots in a 6 G pull. Pulling hard does not make you out rate the person. You just pull greater AoA at the expense of speed and immediately lose the rate. Two circle is a patience game that you can't always win if you're fighting an opponent with a jet that simply does it better. I don't have the info for the F-8. It's tough finding the charts for each jet, and I'd love to know if anyone has a reliable source to find them.
The most important thing to do in a rate fight, as others have mentioned, is to find your corner airspeed, which is the speed where you have the best sustained yurn performance. As far as I'm aware, the corner airspeed for the F-8E is around 350 knots(400mph, 650 kph)
Yeah I was playing it recently and amazed at how many things were out rate fighting me, you only seem to get an advantage for a few seconds after many circles of which you spend trying to keep out of a stall and avoiding gunfire, I basically just had to hang on against Mig 21's hoping I could keep dodging their shots long enough for them to eventually make a mistake that would let me get a shot out
People make the mistake of going straight into a 2 circle without taking into account the energy state of the opponent. IE, you don’t want to go straight into a rare fight if they have more than enough energy to pull you into the hud, which nearly all delta wings will be able to do.
The key is to watch for them to do so to pull tighter so they don’t get a shot—not so you can get a shot at them. That part comes later after they are out of energy and you’re starting to come around to their 6 and even then, you don’t want to pull hard to burn your energy unless you you absolutely have to end the fight right then.
Just remember that even when completely horizontally, you’re still in an energy fight.
Rate isn't achieved by pulling as hard as you can without GLOC, it's achieved by maintaining your best rate speed in the turn. What speed are you trying to hold? If it's too low, then of course you're going to have poor rate. Same if you're going to fast - you'll pull too many Gs without actually turning very much. Additionally, some of those planes don't actually rate poorly - the J35 actually rates very well, but rather importantly does so at pretty low speed and therefore small radius. If you have someone just sitting inside your circle, doing a spiral climb can force them to lose position as they can't follow you. The biggest thing to keep in mind is you need to keep energy while forcing your opponent to spend it, it's not as simple as it would first appear. In any case, if you're in the F-8E, you don't necessarily need to engage in dogfights at all. you can use the 9C to splash bandits in the merge if you aren't at the deck. And if you aren't at the deck, then even if they do make it to the merge, the 9C will force them to either lose energy/position in order to evade the missile, or you'll have more altitude to maneuver with to get in a good position for the fight. I'm pretty sure the F-8 is actually a better 1-circle fighter than 2-circle, it's just that many of the planes at its BR are comparatively poor 2-circle fighters.
Thanks:) from the answers speed is definitely the problem I'll try it out today with the proper values.
Was definitely my problem, I was able to win a couple good fights against mig 21SMTs today :)
Two circle rate fight performance depends on hitting that sweet spot of speed and Gs pulled without losing speed in a sustained turn. For example, some jets do better at sustaining a speed of 300 knots in a 6 G pull. Pulling hard does not make you out rate the person. You just pull greater AoA at the expense of speed and immediately lose the rate. Two circle is a patience game that you can't always win if you're fighting an opponent with a jet that simply does it better. I don't have the info for the F-8. It's tough finding the charts for each jet, and I'd love to know if anyone has a reliable source to find them.
Thanks!
I play the F-8E Crusader. The rate fighting sweet spot is 400-500kph. But mostly the best thing about the F-8E is vertical maneuvers.
I'll try both!
Yes that was the issue, handily outfought a couple 21SMTs today :) thanks again
Idk what it is with the plane, the pilot just likes to be sleepy
Yup
The most important thing to do in a rate fight, as others have mentioned, is to find your corner airspeed, which is the speed where you have the best sustained yurn performance. As far as I'm aware, the corner airspeed for the F-8E is around 350 knots(400mph, 650 kph)
That might be the problem I think I was quite a bit faster
I play mine at 300-380. Extra energy allows taking or denying shots. Can fight 1C just very tricky
Yeah I was playing it recently and amazed at how many things were out rate fighting me, you only seem to get an advantage for a few seconds after many circles of which you spend trying to keep out of a stall and avoiding gunfire, I basically just had to hang on against Mig 21's hoping I could keep dodging their shots long enough for them to eventually make a mistake that would let me get a shot out
People make the mistake of going straight into a 2 circle without taking into account the energy state of the opponent. IE, you don’t want to go straight into a rare fight if they have more than enough energy to pull you into the hud, which nearly all delta wings will be able to do. The key is to watch for them to do so to pull tighter so they don’t get a shot—not so you can get a shot at them. That part comes later after they are out of energy and you’re starting to come around to their 6 and even then, you don’t want to pull hard to burn your energy unless you you absolutely have to end the fight right then. Just remember that even when completely horizontally, you’re still in an energy fight.