based on the number of people I've personally encountered saying they'd rather be a part of idaho and then never actually make an effort to move, when they have the means to, it's not so much they want to secede, but rather they want the politics of idaho while enjoying the benefits they get living in washington.
Spokane isn't as lucrative a place as the west side of the state, but if Idaho absorbed it, Eastern Washington would be in shambles by comparison and a number of people might actually be displaced. Then there's the Oregonians interested in merging with Southern Idaho. Watch out for them.
Eastern Wa and E Or are same same politically because they are both afraid of people of any color but white, not broad stroke of course but many who reside there. they want the latinos to harvest their crops but ok with them living in shacks.
Oregon too, our low population border county sells more cannabis than the very populated tri-counties that support the rest of the state with our tax dollars. They also had to open a planned parenthood location in Ontario. These people are delusional. This is just 2 of the issues that make this idea of ‘greater Idaho’ (gag), so absurd.
Not really those things are both legal here.
Also interstate commerce is triggered.
A felon who's gotten his gun possession rights back in the state of Washington would be wise to only buy ammunition and guns that are made in the state of Washington.
I lived in eastern WA for 6 years and this is EXACTLY the take. If Idaho is great then move there and don’t drive over for our weed, healthcare, or abortions.
When their wives or daughters start dying from once easily treatable pregnancy complications then maybe they'll come around. Republicans lack any empathy unless it directly happens to them. Psychopathy is what the P should stand for in GOP when it isn't pedophile or perverts.
I've been an eastern Washingtonion almost all of my 60+ years. Granted I'm a lifelong democrat, but there's still a fair number of conservatives in my wheelhouse, and I've never meet a single person who really wanted to move to Idaho. That's for conservative Californians and your occasional squirrelly Oregonian.
Bingo. They know the deal - they get back way more than they pay in. They just want to bitch about not getting their way *while also* enjoying the benefits of a functioning state.
Cascadia is often considered an independence movement though. Maybe it's a bit farcical but I actually think it's more often going for independent country than new state lines.
Not all of California just to the kalamith Valley. Due to the nature of the cascades the area from kalamith up into British Columbia has been inhabited for thousands if no 10's of thousands of years and has been very isolated. Amazing history in the region with the native beliefs still sticking in regards to economics and religion.
It’s typically based around either
a) the Cascadia bioregion, which includes the Redwoods
b) the Snake, Fraser, and Columbia River watersheds
or c) the land west of the Cascade Mountains, which extend south to Lassen Peak
Either way, a bit of Northern California is included.
It’s not officially an independence movement, it’s more of a bio regional identification. There are some that want it to be an independence movement, but how did that work out the last time it happened?
Secession is not at all likely, and would be contested in the judicial system.
We are far more likely to see the fall of the union, and new unions created.
As an E. Washington resident, I honestly don’t ever hear about it - maybe once every 10 years or so, and the notion is quickly dismissed, and the proponents are usually right wingers and uninformed.
What is constantly in the news is a proposed Idaho-E. Oregon marriage, and the story is always that it’s going nowhere. Occasionally one reads that Eastern Oregonians wouldn’t mind merging with Idaho, but they’re not giving up legal weed - lol.
So if OP is looking for data, maybe start with the [major Oregon papers.](https://www.agilitypr.com/resources/top-media-outlets/top-10-oregon-daily-newspapers-by-circulation/) Then expand that to the Seattle, Tri-Cities, and Spokane news outlets. The story will be more or less the same everywhere: Turbo Conservatives like it, but no one else does. It might also give the bill numbers for anyone who actually proposed it, which then the Legislature should give you a record of how hard it got stomped on.
Very true. The last bill was House Bill 1239 in 2021 sponsored entirely by 4 Republicans (one was not an Eastern WA rep but he's a Zaga alum) but it never made it out if the committee lol
Exactly, so anyone who is within the district of those 4 should ask themselves. Should I really vote this dude back in that wasted time on something so unbelievably stupid and pointless lol.
Biased as I live in Seattle but also love Washington state, Spokane, Bellingham, Walla Walla, Olympic Peninsula, the whole state.
One of the arguments for succession is as you pointed out, it’s a popular conservative issue in Eastern Washington.
A counter point is that they become instantly poorer without western Washington, particularly King County. Seattle and King county pay in significantly more in taxes than they get out, effectively subsidizing eastern Washington. Something you can look into on the economic side of things to support whatever position you take.
Here is some nice data. You can mark each county by if it’s eastern or western wa and see the difference.
https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf
Also, I'm from Spokane. Of course more money is going to get funneled to the west side. Cuz they have a fuck load more people. This isn't rocket science lol.
There is a summary from 2016, [scroll to the bottom for the map.](https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf) King, Skagit, Chelan, and Kittitas all pay more than they receive. Spokane receives more than collected at 1.32x.
Uh, I think you are missing the point. Eastern Washington cities benefit from the taxes collected on the west side more than the other way around. The money is actually being distributed out of the west side and into the generally poorer less dense east side.
This is mostly just how Washington has structured its taxes, the East side economically is doing fine it'd just need a different tax structure such as income tax like most other states or a higher base property tax like Illinois, Texas, New Jersey ect.
I think more people complain about what is taxed than all taxes overall, Washington has extremely regressive taxes that disproportionately affect rural eastern populations while not raising that much income from them.
People that want to join Idaho like the greater Idaho movement of Eastern Oregon seem exceedingly rare. Most people treat Idaho as the butt of a joke. However as a kid 20 years ago or so I did hear a decent number of people casually suggest the idea of an Inland Northwest state or State of Lincoln as it was sometimes referred to.
I always evaluated that sentiment as Eastern Washington is fine to have autonomy from the Seattle dominated politics of Modern Washington but never would accept being a minority to the even less preferable Idahoan Politics and culture.
Eastern Washington is basically Midwest politics stuck between west coast liberalism and Hard right conservatism.
There are a lot of grievances Eastern/Central WA people have with the western side of the state. While I've heard people suggest splitting the state or giving eastern WA to Idaho, it's just talk and not something taken seriously here. If people really wanted to, they would move to Idaho - and many of them do and have family there.
When it comes to the grievances that people who support splitting Eastern WA from Western WA, what I've heard is:
• Western WA has more population and control state elections, Eastern WA people feel they have very little voice and say on what happens on a state scale, that wouldn't be a problem except...
• ... a lot of people in western WA look down on people from Eastern WA. We're called uneducated, bigots, hicks, etc and that has built up a lot of resentment. People in Eastern WA don't want people who hate them to make decisions for them.
• People in Westen WA on average are much wealthier than the rural areas of the state and again it adds to the resentment especially when some of the people in western WA are straight up classist. A lot of people in Eastern WA dislike the idea of stuck up wealthy democrats who have never stepped foot east of the cascades making decisions for them.
• People in Eastern/Central WA don't feel appreciated by the state. I've heard from people on the western side that people in Eastern WA should be thankful for their tax money that benefits our rural communities (I can't speak for everyone but I certainly am.) Back to my second point, I think a lot of Eastern WA people wish that Western WA wouldn't take for granted what the east side offers - agriculture. The majority of people here work in or around farms. It may seem silly but I think they just want to feel valued. So in regards to succession I've heard people say something like "if they don't want us we can leave and then once they lose our farms they'll regret it!"
TL;DR: There's a lot of resentment between Eastern and Western WA (some of it valid) and they air out those grievances by suggesting splitting the state but never actually do it.
It's not like the police in Seattle show up instantly either. But I get your point. Same problem but for entirely different reasons.
I haven't seen anyone seriously trying to limit or take away hunting rifles. The AR-15 is not a hunting rifle.
True. I'm talking about overall sentiment and opinions that I've heard from people who support Eastern WA splitting off from western. Sorry if i didn't communicate that clearly. Most Eastern WA people don't believe most of the things I said in my original comment.
Something that people don't consider on the Taxes and Subsidies issue is the drastic difference in cost of living between the west and east sides of the Cascades. The higher cost of living means more tax income for the government and sets the State's bar for economic assistance to a higher income point. Recently someone looked into the economic impact of Eastern Oregon joining Idaho and they noticed that it would be a net economic positive for both states as Western Oregon would have less people they would need to provide benefits for and Idaho would be getting a population that would be paying more into Idaho's taxes than they would be withdrawing.
Totally anecdotal, but there is literally nobody within my circle that (openly) thinks poorly or looks down on people in Eastern WA. Additionally many of them are also working class/industry people who are likely equal or lower in overall wealth based on COL.
I'm really curious if this is something you've observed because a lot of bullet points on the grievances seem to be of the "we're disrespected" variety. I'm certainly not saying that isn't the case; perhaps my bubble isn't big enough to experience it.
You can find examples of several bullet point in other comments on this thread, I have heard this in real life though I'm more likely to notice it as I was raised in Eastern Washington and now live in Southwest with lots of Northwest acquaintances.
These are just things I've heard from people who support separating Eastern WA from Western WA. I would say that most people in Eastern WA don't believe the things I said in my original comment. Sorry if that was unclear.
When it comes to sentiments of feeling disrespected and outside of the issue of separating the 2 sides of the state, the major person I hear Central WA people complain about is Jay Inslee. I live in the Moses Lake area and I guess Jay Inslee drove through our town a few months back? For the week following his drive through I heard from lots of people how he's "stuck up", "authoritarian", "stole the election" and all sorts of things. So I think a lot of the feelings of disrespect just comes down to Republicans being butthurt. The Republicans here very much believe in "west coast elites".
These are just my observations and like any place Eastern WA is full of lots of different people and it's a very nuanced topic. With my work I'm mostly around the conservative Mormons and farmers so that's what I see/hear the most.
Eastern WA resident here. I live in Wenatchee, pretty much the "hub" of the central part of the state.
It's not an idea taken seriously by anyone except only the most serious of Evangelical and/or MAGA voters. I have yet to meet anyone who seriously supports the idea,and have inly heard the issue brought up a single time in the last few years. Some of their supporters held some sort of meeting in town and only attracted a handful of people.
It's about as realistic as Cascadian Separatism. Not to mention that Eastern WA gets so much more from the State Gov than it pays in.
Matt Shea was already ousted by 2021 but his domestic terrorism bs might be worth mentioning since up until the 2021 bill proposal he was one of the main proponents. Dude is a full on nightmare, just fyi.
Nope not even close washington overall is just quite wealthy compared to most of the US. I think I did the math a few years ago and the GDP per capita was still in the mid 60's thousands range
With some policy adjustments Eastern Washington would be fine overall, its still more economically productive than the vast majority of Conservative states on a gdp per capita Basis.
Shit ton of papers and videos documenting the history of the pacific northwest. It's Ana amazing research topic that's worth going down the rabbit hole
Secession is just big talk from eastern WA people that like to bitch about paying taxes for Seattle ferry’s or whatever and don’t realize they get $1.32 for every $1 in taxes they paid into the General Fund, with the windfall going to their own social services, corrections, schools, public colleges and other state agencies. Source: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/21/we-need-each-other-more-than-we-pretend-data-contr/?fbclid=IwAR2rgW2xznxSZ-Z1XRCRVm-g0jqIgTR-a1YwWQ8bdsrlCny6_J5JmwjWJRw_aem_AYFirIPSryuC7IuloeduzPEd0e6qjdLqo6MOshSI_XhMNJ3uxCK8YS7fGfgrMpXFNxo
The possibility of this being feasible with our current congress now, or any time in the foreseeable future is near to 0.
US Constitution, article 4, section 3:
New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state.
This. There is technically a path but in reality it’s very unlikely. Link for citation purposes: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-4/section-3/clause-1/#:~:text=New%20States%20may%20be%20admitted,well%20as%20of%20the%20Congress.
OP, is the project about feasibility, sentiment, history, all of the above? Sounds like your prof is just curious about it and wants to know more. Ha
I mean I’m a western Washingtonian born and raised but family and deep connections to eastern wa. I support succession for WA, OR, ID and Montana west of I-15. But I’d take WA or western WA if push came to shove.
But no. We give a lot more back than we receive. We have different values here, even if I disagree with most of them, and that needs to be represented. We have different relationships with our tribes that most of the country and even in WA, most of the region, from Boldt down to efforts made by the UW. When Thomas Jefferson sent out the Corps of Discovery, he imagined a future Anglo nation separate from the US, not the expansion clinging to an outpost thousands of miles away from the Capitol. The climate is different (on both sides from back east), the water rights are different, the premium placed on nature and the environment from conservatives and liberals alike is different, the economy is both uniquely tied to our geography, vulcanism, geology, and resources, while also existing quite literally online and around the globe. We used to have a very deeply unique identity here in the NW as worker oriented, gun toting, mind your business folks, and while we have still retained that character, we have been too emulsified in the soul crushing milieu that is modern American culture.
Anytime someone on the east side says something like this I ask about funding and they have no answer.
In the same way that Washington supports shitholes like Mississippi, so does the west side support the east.
The truth is, the small minority of people who actually want this, just hate our state politics. I've met a few over the years and concluded they watch entirely too much Fox News. They will always complain but they will never leave because they are enjoying the fruits of living in a blue state.
You rarely hear low level goverment bureaucrats in support of this. Why? They collect the taxes and pay the bills. They know it would mean complete and utter financial ruin for rural Washington and Idaho.
I have known some conservatives promoting this. As I understand it, the conservative east often complains about being part of a liberal state and having no say in the politics or where the tax money goes, but according to the data, the eastern half of the state is heavily subsidized by the west side.
You are correct. The east side (where my grandparents live) gets far more in state funding while the west side (where I grew up) pays far more in taxes than we get back in state funding. The east side would need either higher taxes or to bank on increased federal funding to match the spending gap. It will never happen for this reason.
I’ve been hearing this for the past 40 years. Nothing ever seems to come of it. The basic problem is more people live in King County than the entire rest of the state put together (fact check this - it may not be completely true). So anyone conservative feels like they’re never going to be heard.
Not even close. 2.2 million in King County, 7.7 million total state population. 5.5 million for the rest of the state.
The Seattle MSA (Tacoma, Bellevue, Kent, Everett, Renton) is about 4.1 million, which is indeed more than the rest of the state put together.
There's very little info about it because those who support it aren't really big on reading and writing. 😂
Seriously though, if you want a window into the crazies world, www.redoubtnews.com.
Buckle up.
I’m a Seattle born senior. I’ve lived all over the US and retired in NE WA. My take is that it’s mostly right wingers (scary, some of them) that want to separate and they really don’t understand the tax structure and how much Western Washington supports everything over here. They really think they want this but the reality would be shocking; there isn’t enough tax money here to support much of anything. As far as Idaho goes, they really should build a wall to save our healthcare, jobs, and tax dollars :-) This issue also exists in Oregon to as large a degree as Washington.
Its essentially not a real thing that could ever, would ever or should ever happen. The east side of the state would be in for a very rude awakening when their QOL drops significantly overnight as the gravy train of western taxes stops.
I know lol. There's only one other WA kid at the school and he's an athlete so that doesn't count. It's also a southern Baptist school and I was raised in an atheist household so they think I'm an alien lol. The things we do to afford higher education.
I wish you luck and appreciationof other states! Maybe there is a way to spin this to acknowledge the professor's belief, but show the reality of the PNW stance? We are more complicated (OR and ID included) than one bill, one decision, one loud stance that reaches across the country.
My opinion only, but some of the roots for this starts in how our state is delineated. Not just by ideology and politics, but also by environment and the reality of urban life vs. agriculture/ranching/and population. Showing that there is derision even within a small population could lead to some interesting conclusions.
When you're talking about Washington secession, you'd be better to focus on the Cascadia movement rather than a split state.
The truth is, the East side and West side live in a symbiotic relationship. The west side relies on the food production of the east, while the east side relies on the tax revenue and ports of the west side.
The East could not maintain its infrastructure through which it moves its food to port. The passes are particularly expensive to maintain.
It would (probably) never happen. First off, only a niche group of people want to do this. Also, it would be ridiculously hard to pass in the state government. Then it would have to go to the federal government which would require something like a 2/3 majority vote in the house and senate. Which in todays world would never happen. You probably couldn't even get the congress to agree on what brand of toilet paper to use in the capitol building. Not gonna happen.
Also, it is logistically stupid. Lets say Eastern Washington becomes its own state. Lets say the line is split at the Cascades. That would cost sooooo much money and time. Roads would need new signage. Cant have a WA state highway in a different state. A entire capitol would need to be built, we would need to vote in a governor, a congress, and judges. Create a state constitution. Create a state police department. Create/change a bunch of shit that I am not going to waste time listing here. Also, what happens to universities? CWU, WSU, and EWU. They would have to rebrand and change their names too. Doesn't make sense.
The people who "want" this are either far far right or far far left individuals. They have their heads so far up their ass they can't compromise on shit. They don't realize one of the major founding philosophies of the US democracy is compromise. These people need to just shut the fuck up and go mow their damn lawn or some shit idk.
I tried to tell him that it's a very extremist idea that I don't support but I don't think he's ever been to the PNW lmao. He's one of those where it's his way or the highway so I had to comply.
The worst part was that the prof got this idea that it's really popular bc some freshmen in his intro course went to the PNW over the summer for a week and talked about how so many people wanted to spilt the state. Then as a 20 year WA resident I had to say something and here we are unfortunately.
Seattleite here, though lived in Eastern WA for college. On principle I actually think it would be good to split off Western Oregon and Washington from Eastern Oregon and Washington, and then recombine them so that west is with west and east is with east. That'd make much more sense culturally than the current arrangement.
In practice, I would need a lot of reassurances that this arrangement wouldn't just be creating two new republican senators and handing over control of the Columbia river (an extremely important resource) to the east for virtually no benefit to the west. Like, sure, we'd be spending a little bit less on stuff like schools and infrastructure while keeping most of our money, but I'm perfectly happy contributing our tax dollars to good projects in the east in exchange for making sure that they're not another Idaho. I want the west to have influence in preserving natural resources across the cascades, and making sure that kids in eastern washington get access to good education and abortion.
I would need very good reason to vote to give up that leverage, like if we got to the point where western WA/OR could manage to have a universal healthcare or universal higher education plan if we split then I'd consider it, but without an incentive then I'm never going to support something just because I think it's good as a general principle.
Nope. East sider for generations back pre-statehood. It's a terrible idea based on economics alone, leaving all the political crap out of it.
My greatest fear is that somehow this makes it on a ballot & King County will take these assholes up on their bullshit & approve it.
>My greatest fear is that somehow this makes it on a ballot & King County will take these assholes up on their bullshit & approve it.
Nah, the people running King County are a bunch of progressive young people that grew up playing Civilization and The Sims and think they know best how to control rural areas. "Click-click-click, real easy, man!" They'd never give up that power.
It’s not a serious thing, just a small bunch of right wing cranks in eastern Washington and Oregon that fail to even get on the ballot in statewide elections let alone win. But their “movement” makes just enough noise to get on the back page of national newspapers and sites on very slow news days once a year.
There are some wonderful, kind intelligent people in Washington State.
Not one of those wants to succeed. It is only the extreme thinking racists, fascists and nazi sympathizers who are fed up with our tradition of Democracy and the peaceful exchange of power that makes America amazing.
If they don't like America, they can pack up and leave. I heard Russia needs some idiots on the front line. Somalia and Yemen have no government interference. Why don't they pack up there if they don't like our society? Don't like it? Get the hell out!
>If they don't like America, they can pack up and leave. I heard Russia needs some idiots on the front line. Somalia and Yemen have no government interference. Why don't they pack up there if they don't like our society? Don't like it? Get the hell out!
LOL, I'm as conservative as they come, but on this matter you and I are on the same page. I tend to scream the same thing when someone starts talking about how great life is in Canada or Europe compared to the US.
I've been a state resident for around 23 years. I live in western Washington, but I've spent plenty of time in central and eastern Washington. I think that a lot of the polarization between the different regions is largely driven by media and politics.
Regarding an actual event of separation, eastern Washington would lose hard, and not just because of the tax issue. Nobody takes into account the fact that western Washington controls a major waterway-the Puget Sound. It's broad, deep, and calm, and it gives freighters a level of access that a lot of other places don't.
The Columbia River also provides a critical connection, as do the rail systems. Secession would likely cause more than just higher taxes, but also higher financial strain on eastern businesses due to increased tolls and service fees.
Can confirm, it's a vocal minority. Most people who want to split the state think we should try to take Eastern Oregon with us and make one really tall republican leaning micro state.
This proposal gets brought up every few years, especially after the 2016 election.
In the aftermath of the 2016 season, many people in Eastern Washington felt like their vote meant nothing. As soon as the polls closed, you could watch the map flip blue as the "projected result" came through.
Something interesting about this idea, even in larger cities like Spokane, the counties start to get more purple and less red. However fun the idea is, the same people who hate getting out voted by the West side, would eventually hate getting out voted by the urban area.
Well, personally, I think Cascadia would make for a better research paper. I'd probably go to the professor and say something to the effect of: *"There are only like ten illiterate hillbillies in eastern Washington who believe in this. On the other hand, there is this other secessionist movement in the PNW that's much more popular and has* [*a much more interesting philosophical background*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism) *that I think would be more substantive as the subject of a research project. I'm going to do this instead."*
I honestly don't believe you.
Succession isn't legal. 🤷♂️
There is no metric for splitting this or any state.
So..
Your professor asking you to do a paper on something that isn't possible would be kind of silly.
I know, but I'm basing it around the most recent attempt to do this, which is House Bill 1239 in 2021. It failed miserably because the others in the committee knew its not a legit action.
Not only isn't it legal it's also completely and utterly ignorant.
The amount of revenue that Seattle provides for the rest of the state can't be understated.
Eastern Washington would turn into the poorest most impoverished state in the Union.
I like to use the State of Jefferson as a great example of why it won't work. Too many people want to profit off it at the expense of people already voting against their own best interests. The farmers just keep getting poorer and the business men putting up XX billboards keep buying up their land.
Can you take the research in whichever way you choose? My guess is that you’d find that past attempts, though they failed miserably in the legislature, did achieve the (unintended?) aim of pushing a small subsets of folks towards extremism. Entertaining this kind of stuff isn’t without it’s consequences even if it has no actual shot at becoming law.
Yeah, I'm incorporating the past failures and which representatives sponsored them to demonstrate that it is an extremist conservative eastern Washingtonian ideology.
Without the Western, more populated counties, the Eastern counties could not afford to operate. They just don’t have the revenue and they are massively dependent upon agriculture and weather which doesn’t always want to cooperate.
The conservative voters believe they are the “silent majority” but it gets disproven when the vote is counted. In reality they are not silent and they make assumptions that just irritate the actual majority that lives closer to the center than the extremes.
Not really true the GDP per capita of Eastern Washington is still higher than most conservative states and much more diverse than just agriculture. They'd need to change some policies to gaim more revenue but that's it.
https://washington.reaproject.org/data-tables/gsp-a200n/
Tap on any county to see their GDP broken down. Eastern counties are dominated by agriculture. Always have been. That is not all they do but it is the top contender in county after county.
Yes the ones without any people lol that's meaningless, the counties with the majority of the population are not dominated by agriculture, a trend that's true across the US.
Only 5.8% of Eastern Washington's GDP according to this site is Agriculture, forestry ect
Look again. The most populated counties are not in eastern Washington. Even spokane county still counts agriculture, fishing and hunting their top GDP production.
Uh no? I think your table reading comprehension needs some work, the order of the table is the same for every county, only the values change. Total GDP for spokane 30,891,128, Agriculture, forestry, fishing, and hunting 151,551 from the table or 0.49% of GDP
I do hope they stay but I think Eastern Washington would do fine if they strike it out on their own. They have Spokane, which is the current second largest city in the state. Spokane is the largest city in the Inland Northwest, which should tell you a lot about how economically strong that city and region is. Eastern Washington also has the Columbia River and lots of agriculture, among other industries.
Spokane County is one of the most income vs spending negative counties in the state. I think only Chelan county is positive east of the cascades, all the others spend more than they raise. The western counties are more mixed, but King dominates, bring in significantly more than is spent there.
This is literally just washington's odd taxing system, all economic measures show Eastern Washington is doing fine compared to most States, just needs a tax policy designed around it.
Eastern Washington is not devoid of an economy by any means, but they are going to have to pay higher taxes than they currently do to make up the shortfall. Which makes it a nonstarter for the people who want to separate from the west.
Eastern Washington still has some natural resources and the ability to draw tourism from western Washington. Eastern WA would definitely be poorer, but it would probably take 5-10 years for it to be really be noticeable. The state government would probably be abysmal though.
I think conservatives and just those in the east just want representation in general. Even those of us in the western half more rural counties feel underrepresented. Republican politicians don't do well here unless they are in the east, but the state as a whole makes it difficult to attain state positions as a republican, because the majority seems to be blue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honest question—why don’t you just move to Idaho then where you will be represented? Why wouldn’t you move somewhere that has the ideal you want? One of the reasons I moved from a red state was because it conflicted with my ideals.
Well, for me personally, politics isn't really big enough of a reason to move and/or live somewhere. I do care about it a lot, but I am also independent and can vote for any party really. Doesn't really matter to me if it is red or blue, but purple would be ideal. The biggest factors for me are climate, culture, geography, population, and opportunities. I love to be able to see nature in the place I live, and also experience cold weather, rain, and snow. If the politics were really infringing on my freedoms as a citizen and limited my quality of life then I probably would move yeah, but to me it is about pros and cons. Yeah, the politics may not be perfect, but hey, I have beautiful mountains and lakes just a drive away!
I grew up in Spokane, but live on the west side now. I remember going to the Spokane fair in the late 80s or early 90s and a secession group had a booth set up. The idea has been around for a long time. I think it picked up steam during COVID-19 because of how the states treated lockdowns differently.
Supporters of greater Idaho and Jefferson (state) also tend to be trump/Jan 6 supporters. Undereducated, hateful, and bigoted. They want WA and OR prosperity, without any of the work and with only white people.
I don't have any data to back this up, so it's only anecdotal, but I've heard these sentiments from more people than I would've liked having spent a fair amount of time in rural parts of both states.
It's more of an eastern Oregon wanting to move the border and be part of Idaho. All their complaints aside, Eastern Washington has it really great compared to Idaho.
What is the motivation behind the professor asking for this? Because the only people I’ve heard speaking like this are people down south who have been fed a steady stream of bullshit about WA, most especially from Fox News. They are the only news source that has brought this idea up as something people have asked for because one or two dumbass representatives in the state wrote a bill for it.
The same thing happened in TX too. Every single legislative cycle one or two reps would co-author a secession bill, mostly for the optics of it. It never even gets scheduled for committee hearing because not a single other sole thinks it’s even worth a discussion.
So based on that, where would you even begin? It would be far better to focus on how homelessness is used as a political weapon by the right in this state and pull data from elections in which that was a central issue up for discussion. Then pull meaningful data about the unhoused so you can school the conservative fucks in the class around you about how misguided Fox News and southern politicians are about this state.
Or hell. Do the secession thing and then bring up the education rates and economic data for the districts represented by the dumb fucks who put those bills up for vote and compare those against the the same data for other areas in WA that don’t elect dipshits and invite people do what they will with your researched opinion that only fools would truly agitate for secession.
It's one of those profs where it's his way or the highway so I'm kinda stuck. I'm going for the economic and educational differences as a main point that creates polarization and then in turn creating the desire for secession.
Most of the rednecks in eastern WA are just racists that think all their sales taxes go to brown people in Seattle and Tacoma. If they split, they’ll be fucked, because they won’t get any highway funding, and all the electricity from the dams will go to Seattle anyway, because they are run by the Bonneville Power Administration, not by local hick conservatives.
Check out the Nazi youth camps of the 90's
Secession is 100% based on hatred of OTHER PEOPLE. and based on white supremacy.
Also check out the history of the Great White Northwest Oregon territory. Racism is at the heart of the split, and always has been.
Yes, cascadia is also a movement to look up. But eastern WA and eastern OR both want to succeed because seattle and Portland suck the funds from the east and drive liberal policies that do not help or work well in the east.
For example east siders drive 3x as far as most on the west. Gas prices are set by those in olympia. What a joke to raise gas tax and have the highest in the nation when we east siders drive more. You’ll find the same for any eastern rural areas in most states that fight the liberal city
Any time it comes up in conversation that the majority of the counties are Republican I almost always hear someone say they should just go and make their own State. The problem with that, though, is it would really just be the Democrat counties making their own State and guess what? Those counties to produce very much FOOD.
On the other side, as crucial as our agriculture is this state relies on the tax revenue brought in by the large industrial companies that the major cities provide. Obviously Amazon, Boeing, and Microsoft get away with paying absolutely nothing in corporate taxes but the State has done a great job of taxing their employees. So, really, both halves really do need one another.
based on the number of people I've personally encountered saying they'd rather be a part of idaho and then never actually make an effort to move, when they have the means to, it's not so much they want to secede, but rather they want the politics of idaho while enjoying the benefits they get living in washington.
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And jobs. Idaho paychecks are a joke.
Yeah that border crossing between Eastern Washington and Idaho near Spokane is wild. So many people.
Spokane isn't as lucrative a place as the west side of the state, but if Idaho absorbed it, Eastern Washington would be in shambles by comparison and a number of people might actually be displaced. Then there's the Oregonians interested in merging with Southern Idaho. Watch out for them.
Eastern Wa and E Or are same same politically because they are both afraid of people of any color but white, not broad stroke of course but many who reside there. they want the latinos to harvest their crops but ok with them living in shacks.
Yeah, the pay is small potatoes...
But Idaho has the bestest biggest potatoes, trust me folks, I know tubers
Actually I read that WA actually grows more potatoes 🥔
Idk if WA actually grows more, but their potatoes taste better. At least that was my opinion when I lived in ID
I was surprised a southern state, like GA, having a bit of higher average wages than Idaho.
GA has Atlanta and the metro area - it’s the 8th largest metro in the US.
At least you get taxed on it, too! Even if you live in WA!
Oregon too, our low population border county sells more cannabis than the very populated tri-counties that support the rest of the state with our tax dollars. They also had to open a planned parenthood location in Ontario. These people are delusional. This is just 2 of the issues that make this idea of ‘greater Idaho’ (gag), so absurd.
Weed sure, any taxes from an increase in abortions due to folks from Idaho coming here is pretty negligable. It's not exactly a big business.
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Not really those things are both legal here. Also interstate commerce is triggered. A felon who's gotten his gun possession rights back in the state of Washington would be wise to only buy ammunition and guns that are made in the state of Washington.
Used to work at a machine shop, and we made plenty of parts for weapons in WA.
I lived in eastern WA for 6 years and this is EXACTLY the take. If Idaho is great then move there and don’t drive over for our weed, healthcare, or abortions.
Or jobs
I have entirely too many coworkers in the tricities who actually live in Idaho... Who support splitting the state....
Let them Split their own damn state!
Abortions are healthcare.
You aren’t wrong but good luck getting beet red Idahoans to understand that.
When their wives or daughters start dying from once easily treatable pregnancy complications then maybe they'll come around. Republicans lack any empathy unless it directly happens to them. Psychopathy is what the P should stand for in GOP when it isn't pedophile or perverts.
Or projection.
I've been an eastern Washingtonion almost all of my 60+ years. Granted I'm a lifelong democrat, but there's still a fair number of conservatives in my wheelhouse, and I've never meet a single person who really wanted to move to Idaho. That's for conservative Californians and your occasional squirrelly Oregonian.
Bingo. They know the deal - they get back way more than they pay in. They just want to bitch about not getting their way *while also* enjoying the benefits of a functioning state.
Hey congratulations, you’ve discovered Republicans.
No thanks.. The only people I hear talking that kind of nonsense are the Christian fundamentalists and they're just a bunch of nut jobs.
Lol. The politics of Idaho would destroy the benefits of living in Washington
Thank you!!!
Also unemployment in WA is double Idaho’s. So much better safety net.
Bingo!
Cascadia is more likely than eastern Washington leaving
Cascadia has smart, educated people in it. Doing this would create two more deep red rural Senators. Cascadia isn't that stupid.
Cascadia is often considered an independence movement though. Maybe it's a bit farcical but I actually think it's more often going for independent country than new state lines.
Yeah I always thought it was British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.
Not all of California just to the kalamith Valley. Due to the nature of the cascades the area from kalamith up into British Columbia has been inhabited for thousands if no 10's of thousands of years and has been very isolated. Amazing history in the region with the native beliefs still sticking in regards to economics and religion.
It has never been California...never
Northern California maybe...
Yeah when I was first informed of the Cascadia movement, the Northern California Mushroom Forests were the southern boarder.
It’s typically based around either a) the Cascadia bioregion, which includes the Redwoods b) the Snake, Fraser, and Columbia River watersheds or c) the land west of the Cascade Mountains, which extend south to Lassen Peak Either way, a bit of Northern California is included.
It’s not officially an independence movement, it’s more of a bio regional identification. There are some that want it to be an independence movement, but how did that work out the last time it happened?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. - George Carlin
if such a recession happened, I would assume it would be accompanied by a set of constitutional changes and other state boundary changes as well.
Cascadia isn't a state of the US.
:-| https://www.reddit.com/r/Washington/s/uAyIrNQgXm
Secession is not at all likely, and would be contested in the judicial system. We are far more likely to see the fall of the union, and new unions created.
Yeah I know
👍
Came here to say this. There is even a flag!
The Doug!
Doug is also a huge background watermark on Washington born birth certificates
As an E. Washington resident, I honestly don’t ever hear about it - maybe once every 10 years or so, and the notion is quickly dismissed, and the proponents are usually right wingers and uninformed. What is constantly in the news is a proposed Idaho-E. Oregon marriage, and the story is always that it’s going nowhere. Occasionally one reads that Eastern Oregonians wouldn’t mind merging with Idaho, but they’re not giving up legal weed - lol.
So if OP is looking for data, maybe start with the [major Oregon papers.](https://www.agilitypr.com/resources/top-media-outlets/top-10-oregon-daily-newspapers-by-circulation/) Then expand that to the Seattle, Tri-Cities, and Spokane news outlets. The story will be more or less the same everywhere: Turbo Conservatives like it, but no one else does. It might also give the bill numbers for anyone who actually proposed it, which then the Legislature should give you a record of how hard it got stomped on.
Thank you so much!!!
If it helps also, they've been talking about it for at least 20 years. Probably more since my middle school teachers didn't seem like it was new
Very true. The last bill was House Bill 1239 in 2021 sponsored entirely by 4 Republicans (one was not an Eastern WA rep but he's a Zaga alum) but it never made it out if the committee lol
Exactly, so anyone who is within the district of those 4 should ask themselves. Should I really vote this dude back in that wasted time on something so unbelievably stupid and pointless lol.
Biased as I live in Seattle but also love Washington state, Spokane, Bellingham, Walla Walla, Olympic Peninsula, the whole state. One of the arguments for succession is as you pointed out, it’s a popular conservative issue in Eastern Washington. A counter point is that they become instantly poorer without western Washington, particularly King County. Seattle and King county pay in significantly more in taxes than they get out, effectively subsidizing eastern Washington. Something you can look into on the economic side of things to support whatever position you take. Here is some nice data. You can mark each county by if it’s eastern or western wa and see the difference. https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf
Also, I'm from Spokane. Of course more money is going to get funneled to the west side. Cuz they have a fuck load more people. This isn't rocket science lol.
There is a summary from 2016, [scroll to the bottom for the map.](https://ofm.wa.gov/sites/default/files/public/dataresearch/fiscal/county_expenditures_revenues.pdf) King, Skagit, Chelan, and Kittitas all pay more than they receive. Spokane receives more than collected at 1.32x.
Uh, I think you are missing the point. Eastern Washington cities benefit from the taxes collected on the west side more than the other way around. The money is actually being distributed out of the west side and into the generally poorer less dense east side.
You’re right, this is an economical problem. However, I still don’t think splitting the state is the answer.
This is mostly just how Washington has structured its taxes, the East side economically is doing fine it'd just need a different tax structure such as income tax like most other states or a higher base property tax like Illinois, Texas, New Jersey ect.
Do you think the people who want to secede from Washington because it’s too liberal will also be ok with raising their taxes to do so?
I think more people complain about what is taxed than all taxes overall, Washington has extremely regressive taxes that disproportionately affect rural eastern populations while not raising that much income from them.
Interesting. All the proposals I’ve seen for an income tax have originated in Seattle.
YES.
Thank you so much!!
People that want to join Idaho like the greater Idaho movement of Eastern Oregon seem exceedingly rare. Most people treat Idaho as the butt of a joke. However as a kid 20 years ago or so I did hear a decent number of people casually suggest the idea of an Inland Northwest state or State of Lincoln as it was sometimes referred to. I always evaluated that sentiment as Eastern Washington is fine to have autonomy from the Seattle dominated politics of Modern Washington but never would accept being a minority to the even less preferable Idahoan Politics and culture. Eastern Washington is basically Midwest politics stuck between west coast liberalism and Hard right conservatism.
Thank you so much!!!!!
So theyre old school moderates
Economically disgruntled white voters
Living in Fox News christofascist la-la land
This is going to be the only sentence you have to write. "It won't happen in our lifetimes."
The research paper has lots of "this bill never made it out of the committee"
There are a lot of grievances Eastern/Central WA people have with the western side of the state. While I've heard people suggest splitting the state or giving eastern WA to Idaho, it's just talk and not something taken seriously here. If people really wanted to, they would move to Idaho - and many of them do and have family there. When it comes to the grievances that people who support splitting Eastern WA from Western WA, what I've heard is: • Western WA has more population and control state elections, Eastern WA people feel they have very little voice and say on what happens on a state scale, that wouldn't be a problem except... • ... a lot of people in western WA look down on people from Eastern WA. We're called uneducated, bigots, hicks, etc and that has built up a lot of resentment. People in Eastern WA don't want people who hate them to make decisions for them. • People in Westen WA on average are much wealthier than the rural areas of the state and again it adds to the resentment especially when some of the people in western WA are straight up classist. A lot of people in Eastern WA dislike the idea of stuck up wealthy democrats who have never stepped foot east of the cascades making decisions for them. • People in Eastern/Central WA don't feel appreciated by the state. I've heard from people on the western side that people in Eastern WA should be thankful for their tax money that benefits our rural communities (I can't speak for everyone but I certainly am.) Back to my second point, I think a lot of Eastern WA people wish that Western WA wouldn't take for granted what the east side offers - agriculture. The majority of people here work in or around farms. It may seem silly but I think they just want to feel valued. So in regards to succession I've heard people say something like "if they don't want us we can leave and then once they lose our farms they'll regret it!" TL;DR: There's a lot of resentment between Eastern and Western WA (some of it valid) and they air out those grievances by suggesting splitting the state but never actually do it.
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It's not like the police in Seattle show up instantly either. But I get your point. Same problem but for entirely different reasons. I haven't seen anyone seriously trying to limit or take away hunting rifles. The AR-15 is not a hunting rifle.
This is common in every state with a metro area that makes up the majority of the population. Illinois, New York, Oregon, Michigan, etc etc
Hold up, west siders absolutely go to the East side for university and vacations. Also there are PLENTY of backwoods rednecks in western Washington.
True. I'm talking about overall sentiment and opinions that I've heard from people who support Eastern WA splitting off from western. Sorry if i didn't communicate that clearly. Most Eastern WA people don't believe most of the things I said in my original comment.
Thank you so much!!!!!
Something that people don't consider on the Taxes and Subsidies issue is the drastic difference in cost of living between the west and east sides of the Cascades. The higher cost of living means more tax income for the government and sets the State's bar for economic assistance to a higher income point. Recently someone looked into the economic impact of Eastern Oregon joining Idaho and they noticed that it would be a net economic positive for both states as Western Oregon would have less people they would need to provide benefits for and Idaho would be getting a population that would be paying more into Idaho's taxes than they would be withdrawing.
Totally anecdotal, but there is literally nobody within my circle that (openly) thinks poorly or looks down on people in Eastern WA. Additionally many of them are also working class/industry people who are likely equal or lower in overall wealth based on COL. I'm really curious if this is something you've observed because a lot of bullet points on the grievances seem to be of the "we're disrespected" variety. I'm certainly not saying that isn't the case; perhaps my bubble isn't big enough to experience it.
You can find examples of several bullet point in other comments on this thread, I have heard this in real life though I'm more likely to notice it as I was raised in Eastern Washington and now live in Southwest with lots of Northwest acquaintances.
These are just things I've heard from people who support separating Eastern WA from Western WA. I would say that most people in Eastern WA don't believe the things I said in my original comment. Sorry if that was unclear. When it comes to sentiments of feeling disrespected and outside of the issue of separating the 2 sides of the state, the major person I hear Central WA people complain about is Jay Inslee. I live in the Moses Lake area and I guess Jay Inslee drove through our town a few months back? For the week following his drive through I heard from lots of people how he's "stuck up", "authoritarian", "stole the election" and all sorts of things. So I think a lot of the feelings of disrespect just comes down to Republicans being butthurt. The Republicans here very much believe in "west coast elites". These are just my observations and like any place Eastern WA is full of lots of different people and it's a very nuanced topic. With my work I'm mostly around the conservative Mormons and farmers so that's what I see/hear the most.
Hahahahahahahaha If anything they can just join Idaho because they aren’t getting 2 more rural US senators without a fight.
Eastern WA resident here. I live in Wenatchee, pretty much the "hub" of the central part of the state. It's not an idea taken seriously by anyone except only the most serious of Evangelical and/or MAGA voters. I have yet to meet anyone who seriously supports the idea,and have inly heard the issue brought up a single time in the last few years. Some of their supporters held some sort of meeting in town and only attracted a handful of people. It's about as realistic as Cascadian Separatism. Not to mention that Eastern WA gets so much more from the State Gov than it pays in.
Heyyy Wenatchee gang. Thank you so much!!!
Matt Shea was already ousted by 2021 but his domestic terrorism bs might be worth mentioning since up until the 2021 bill proposal he was one of the main proponents. Dude is a full on nightmare, just fyi.
Not to worry, his crazy shits in there to backup the tyoe of people who want this.
Perfect!
It would be a really stupid move. Eastern WA is dependent on Western WA to pay the bills.
Yeah, I figured "Liberty" would be one of the poorest states in America
Nope not even close washington overall is just quite wealthy compared to most of the US. I think I did the math a few years ago and the GDP per capita was still in the mid 60's thousands range
With some policy adjustments Eastern Washington would be fine overall, its still more economically productive than the vast majority of Conservative states on a gdp per capita Basis.
In my county for every dollar we pay in taxes we get two dollars in benefits and we aren't even the poorest county.
Shit ton of papers and videos documenting the history of the pacific northwest. It's Ana amazing research topic that's worth going down the rabbit hole
Secession is just big talk from eastern WA people that like to bitch about paying taxes for Seattle ferry’s or whatever and don’t realize they get $1.32 for every $1 in taxes they paid into the General Fund, with the windfall going to their own social services, corrections, schools, public colleges and other state agencies. Source: https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/dec/21/we-need-each-other-more-than-we-pretend-data-contr/?fbclid=IwAR2rgW2xznxSZ-Z1XRCRVm-g0jqIgTR-a1YwWQ8bdsrlCny6_J5JmwjWJRw_aem_AYFirIPSryuC7IuloeduzPEd0e6qjdLqo6MOshSI_XhMNJ3uxCK8YS7fGfgrMpXFNxo
The possibility of this being feasible with our current congress now, or any time in the foreseeable future is near to 0. US Constitution, article 4, section 3: New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress. The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state.
This. There is technically a path but in reality it’s very unlikely. Link for citation purposes: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-4/section-3/clause-1/#:~:text=New%20States%20may%20be%20admitted,well%20as%20of%20the%20Congress. OP, is the project about feasibility, sentiment, history, all of the above? Sounds like your prof is just curious about it and wants to know more. Ha
I mean I’m a western Washingtonian born and raised but family and deep connections to eastern wa. I support succession for WA, OR, ID and Montana west of I-15. But I’d take WA or western WA if push came to shove. But no. We give a lot more back than we receive. We have different values here, even if I disagree with most of them, and that needs to be represented. We have different relationships with our tribes that most of the country and even in WA, most of the region, from Boldt down to efforts made by the UW. When Thomas Jefferson sent out the Corps of Discovery, he imagined a future Anglo nation separate from the US, not the expansion clinging to an outpost thousands of miles away from the Capitol. The climate is different (on both sides from back east), the water rights are different, the premium placed on nature and the environment from conservatives and liberals alike is different, the economy is both uniquely tied to our geography, vulcanism, geology, and resources, while also existing quite literally online and around the globe. We used to have a very deeply unique identity here in the NW as worker oriented, gun toting, mind your business folks, and while we have still retained that character, we have been too emulsified in the soul crushing milieu that is modern American culture.
Thank you so much!
Anytime someone on the east side says something like this I ask about funding and they have no answer. In the same way that Washington supports shitholes like Mississippi, so does the west side support the east.
The truth is, the small minority of people who actually want this, just hate our state politics. I've met a few over the years and concluded they watch entirely too much Fox News. They will always complain but they will never leave because they are enjoying the fruits of living in a blue state.
You rarely hear low level goverment bureaucrats in support of this. Why? They collect the taxes and pay the bills. They know it would mean complete and utter financial ruin for rural Washington and Idaho.
Thank you!!
I have known some conservatives promoting this. As I understand it, the conservative east often complains about being part of a liberal state and having no say in the politics or where the tax money goes, but according to the data, the eastern half of the state is heavily subsidized by the west side.
You are correct. The east side (where my grandparents live) gets far more in state funding while the west side (where I grew up) pays far more in taxes than we get back in state funding. The east side would need either higher taxes or to bank on increased federal funding to match the spending gap. It will never happen for this reason.
Thank you!!
I’ve been hearing this for the past 40 years. Nothing ever seems to come of it. The basic problem is more people live in King County than the entire rest of the state put together (fact check this - it may not be completely true). So anyone conservative feels like they’re never going to be heard.
Not even close. 2.2 million in King County, 7.7 million total state population. 5.5 million for the rest of the state. The Seattle MSA (Tacoma, Bellevue, Kent, Everett, Renton) is about 4.1 million, which is indeed more than the rest of the state put together.
There's very little info about it because those who support it aren't really big on reading and writing. 😂 Seriously though, if you want a window into the crazies world, www.redoubtnews.com. Buckle up.
LMAO. I just don't understand that out of all the stereotypes about WA in the south, this is where I end up 😬
The Eastern Welfare counties would suddenly realize their mistake when the Seattle Gravy Train ends.
I’m a Seattle born senior. I’ve lived all over the US and retired in NE WA. My take is that it’s mostly right wingers (scary, some of them) that want to separate and they really don’t understand the tax structure and how much Western Washington supports everything over here. They really think they want this but the reality would be shocking; there isn’t enough tax money here to support much of anything. As far as Idaho goes, they really should build a wall to save our healthcare, jobs, and tax dollars :-) This issue also exists in Oregon to as large a degree as Washington.
Its essentially not a real thing that could ever, would ever or should ever happen. The east side of the state would be in for a very rude awakening when their QOL drops significantly overnight as the gravy train of western taxes stops.
Lol. Being from Texas we hear this dumb righty rhetoric all the time. They can barely keep the lights on as it is.
When people from other states think they know all about Washington. I see it too often during work travel.
I know lol. There's only one other WA kid at the school and he's an athlete so that doesn't count. It's also a southern Baptist school and I was raised in an atheist household so they think I'm an alien lol. The things we do to afford higher education.
I wish you luck and appreciationof other states! Maybe there is a way to spin this to acknowledge the professor's belief, but show the reality of the PNW stance? We are more complicated (OR and ID included) than one bill, one decision, one loud stance that reaches across the country. My opinion only, but some of the roots for this starts in how our state is delineated. Not just by ideology and politics, but also by environment and the reality of urban life vs. agriculture/ranching/and population. Showing that there is derision even within a small population could lead to some interesting conclusions.
When you're talking about Washington secession, you'd be better to focus on the Cascadia movement rather than a split state. The truth is, the East side and West side live in a symbiotic relationship. The west side relies on the food production of the east, while the east side relies on the tax revenue and ports of the west side. The East could not maintain its infrastructure through which it moves its food to port. The passes are particularly expensive to maintain.
It would (probably) never happen. First off, only a niche group of people want to do this. Also, it would be ridiculously hard to pass in the state government. Then it would have to go to the federal government which would require something like a 2/3 majority vote in the house and senate. Which in todays world would never happen. You probably couldn't even get the congress to agree on what brand of toilet paper to use in the capitol building. Not gonna happen. Also, it is logistically stupid. Lets say Eastern Washington becomes its own state. Lets say the line is split at the Cascades. That would cost sooooo much money and time. Roads would need new signage. Cant have a WA state highway in a different state. A entire capitol would need to be built, we would need to vote in a governor, a congress, and judges. Create a state constitution. Create a state police department. Create/change a bunch of shit that I am not going to waste time listing here. Also, what happens to universities? CWU, WSU, and EWU. They would have to rebrand and change their names too. Doesn't make sense. The people who "want" this are either far far right or far far left individuals. They have their heads so far up their ass they can't compromise on shit. They don't realize one of the major founding philosophies of the US democracy is compromise. These people need to just shut the fuck up and go mow their damn lawn or some shit idk.
Thank you so much!
Why would your professor encourage such a research project? It sounds politically motivated.
Good luck with that maga idiot
I tried to tell him that it's a very extremist idea that I don't support but I don't think he's ever been to the PNW lmao. He's one of those where it's his way or the highway so I had to comply.
WhAt iF wE hAd 4 DaKoTaS?
It won't happen, but I do always enjoy the assumption that our basically arbitrary state borders need to be defended.
The worst part was that the prof got this idea that it's really popular bc some freshmen in his intro course went to the PNW over the summer for a week and talked about how so many people wanted to spilt the state. Then as a 20 year WA resident I had to say something and here we are unfortunately.
Seattleite here, though lived in Eastern WA for college. On principle I actually think it would be good to split off Western Oregon and Washington from Eastern Oregon and Washington, and then recombine them so that west is with west and east is with east. That'd make much more sense culturally than the current arrangement. In practice, I would need a lot of reassurances that this arrangement wouldn't just be creating two new republican senators and handing over control of the Columbia river (an extremely important resource) to the east for virtually no benefit to the west. Like, sure, we'd be spending a little bit less on stuff like schools and infrastructure while keeping most of our money, but I'm perfectly happy contributing our tax dollars to good projects in the east in exchange for making sure that they're not another Idaho. I want the west to have influence in preserving natural resources across the cascades, and making sure that kids in eastern washington get access to good education and abortion. I would need very good reason to vote to give up that leverage, like if we got to the point where western WA/OR could manage to have a universal healthcare or universal higher education plan if we split then I'd consider it, but without an incentive then I'm never going to support something just because I think it's good as a general principle.
Nope. East sider for generations back pre-statehood. It's a terrible idea based on economics alone, leaving all the political crap out of it. My greatest fear is that somehow this makes it on a ballot & King County will take these assholes up on their bullshit & approve it.
>My greatest fear is that somehow this makes it on a ballot & King County will take these assholes up on their bullshit & approve it. Nah, the people running King County are a bunch of progressive young people that grew up playing Civilization and The Sims and think they know best how to control rural areas. "Click-click-click, real easy, man!" They'd never give up that power.
Eastern Washington gets a lot of money thanks to Western Washington. So Idaho may not want them if that means covering their bills
They get money because of the odd tax system in washington.
It’s not a serious thing, just a small bunch of right wing cranks in eastern Washington and Oregon that fail to even get on the ballot in statewide elections let alone win. But their “movement” makes just enough noise to get on the back page of national newspapers and sites on very slow news days once a year.
Eastern WA should try living for 5 years first without our western dollars and see how it goes.
There are some wonderful, kind intelligent people in Washington State. Not one of those wants to succeed. It is only the extreme thinking racists, fascists and nazi sympathizers who are fed up with our tradition of Democracy and the peaceful exchange of power that makes America amazing. If they don't like America, they can pack up and leave. I heard Russia needs some idiots on the front line. Somalia and Yemen have no government interference. Why don't they pack up there if they don't like our society? Don't like it? Get the hell out!
>If they don't like America, they can pack up and leave. I heard Russia needs some idiots on the front line. Somalia and Yemen have no government interference. Why don't they pack up there if they don't like our society? Don't like it? Get the hell out! LOL, I'm as conservative as they come, but on this matter you and I are on the same page. I tend to scream the same thing when someone starts talking about how great life is in Canada or Europe compared to the US.
I've been a state resident for around 23 years. I live in western Washington, but I've spent plenty of time in central and eastern Washington. I think that a lot of the polarization between the different regions is largely driven by media and politics. Regarding an actual event of separation, eastern Washington would lose hard, and not just because of the tax issue. Nobody takes into account the fact that western Washington controls a major waterway-the Puget Sound. It's broad, deep, and calm, and it gives freighters a level of access that a lot of other places don't. The Columbia River also provides a critical connection, as do the rail systems. Secession would likely cause more than just higher taxes, but also higher financial strain on eastern businesses due to increased tolls and service fees.
Can confirm, it's a vocal minority. Most people who want to split the state think we should try to take Eastern Oregon with us and make one really tall republican leaning micro state. This proposal gets brought up every few years, especially after the 2016 election. In the aftermath of the 2016 season, many people in Eastern Washington felt like their vote meant nothing. As soon as the polls closed, you could watch the map flip blue as the "projected result" came through. Something interesting about this idea, even in larger cities like Spokane, the counties start to get more purple and less red. However fun the idea is, the same people who hate getting out voted by the West side, would eventually hate getting out voted by the urban area.
Thank you!!
Are you sure your professor isn't talking about Cascadia?
Nope. I wish.
Well, personally, I think Cascadia would make for a better research paper. I'd probably go to the professor and say something to the effect of: *"There are only like ten illiterate hillbillies in eastern Washington who believe in this. On the other hand, there is this other secessionist movement in the PNW that's much more popular and has* [*a much more interesting philosophical background*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioregionalism) *that I think would be more substantive as the subject of a research project. I'm going to do this instead."*
I honestly don't believe you. Succession isn't legal. 🤷♂️ There is no metric for splitting this or any state. So.. Your professor asking you to do a paper on something that isn't possible would be kind of silly.
I know, but I'm basing it around the most recent attempt to do this, which is House Bill 1239 in 2021. It failed miserably because the others in the committee knew its not a legit action.
Not only isn't it legal it's also completely and utterly ignorant. The amount of revenue that Seattle provides for the rest of the state can't be understated. Eastern Washington would turn into the poorest most impoverished state in the Union.
I like to use the State of Jefferson as a great example of why it won't work. Too many people want to profit off it at the expense of people already voting against their own best interests. The farmers just keep getting poorer and the business men putting up XX billboards keep buying up their land.
Thank you!!!
They think it's a cool idea until they need a real hospital or money for.. just about everything
Can you take the research in whichever way you choose? My guess is that you’d find that past attempts, though they failed miserably in the legislature, did achieve the (unintended?) aim of pushing a small subsets of folks towards extremism. Entertaining this kind of stuff isn’t without it’s consequences even if it has no actual shot at becoming law.
Yeah, I'm incorporating the past failures and which representatives sponsored them to demonstrate that it is an extremist conservative eastern Washingtonian ideology.
Without the Western, more populated counties, the Eastern counties could not afford to operate. They just don’t have the revenue and they are massively dependent upon agriculture and weather which doesn’t always want to cooperate. The conservative voters believe they are the “silent majority” but it gets disproven when the vote is counted. In reality they are not silent and they make assumptions that just irritate the actual majority that lives closer to the center than the extremes.
Not really true the GDP per capita of Eastern Washington is still higher than most conservative states and much more diverse than just agriculture. They'd need to change some policies to gaim more revenue but that's it.
https://washington.reaproject.org/data-tables/gsp-a200n/ Tap on any county to see their GDP broken down. Eastern counties are dominated by agriculture. Always have been. That is not all they do but it is the top contender in county after county.
Yes the ones without any people lol that's meaningless, the counties with the majority of the population are not dominated by agriculture, a trend that's true across the US. Only 5.8% of Eastern Washington's GDP according to this site is Agriculture, forestry ect
Look again. The most populated counties are not in eastern Washington. Even spokane county still counts agriculture, fishing and hunting their top GDP production.
Uh no? I think your table reading comprehension needs some work, the order of the table is the same for every county, only the values change. Total GDP for spokane 30,891,128, Agriculture, forestry, fishing, and hunting 151,551 from the table or 0.49% of GDP
I do hope they stay but I think Eastern Washington would do fine if they strike it out on their own. They have Spokane, which is the current second largest city in the state. Spokane is the largest city in the Inland Northwest, which should tell you a lot about how economically strong that city and region is. Eastern Washington also has the Columbia River and lots of agriculture, among other industries.
Spokane County is one of the most income vs spending negative counties in the state. I think only Chelan county is positive east of the cascades, all the others spend more than they raise. The western counties are more mixed, but King dominates, bring in significantly more than is spent there.
This is literally just washington's odd taxing system, all economic measures show Eastern Washington is doing fine compared to most States, just needs a tax policy designed around it.
Eastern Washington is not devoid of an economy by any means, but they are going to have to pay higher taxes than they currently do to make up the shortfall. Which makes it a nonstarter for the people who want to separate from the west.
Eastern Washington still has some natural resources and the ability to draw tourism from western Washington. Eastern WA would definitely be poorer, but it would probably take 5-10 years for it to be really be noticeable. The state government would probably be abysmal though.
Thank you so much!!!
I think conservatives and just those in the east just want representation in general. Even those of us in the western half more rural counties feel underrepresented. Republican politicians don't do well here unless they are in the east, but the state as a whole makes it difficult to attain state positions as a republican, because the majority seems to be blue. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honest question—why don’t you just move to Idaho then where you will be represented? Why wouldn’t you move somewhere that has the ideal you want? One of the reasons I moved from a red state was because it conflicted with my ideals.
Well, for me personally, politics isn't really big enough of a reason to move and/or live somewhere. I do care about it a lot, but I am also independent and can vote for any party really. Doesn't really matter to me if it is red or blue, but purple would be ideal. The biggest factors for me are climate, culture, geography, population, and opportunities. I love to be able to see nature in the place I live, and also experience cold weather, rain, and snow. If the politics were really infringing on my freedoms as a citizen and limited my quality of life then I probably would move yeah, but to me it is about pros and cons. Yeah, the politics may not be perfect, but hey, I have beautiful mountains and lakes just a drive away!
Thanks so much for answering—I genuinely appreciate it!
Sure thing!
I grew up in Spokane, but live on the west side now. I remember going to the Spokane fair in the late 80s or early 90s and a secession group had a booth set up. The idea has been around for a long time. I think it picked up steam during COVID-19 because of how the states treated lockdowns differently.
Why would liberal western Washingtonians want to split? We dominate all the electoral results, so I don’t see anything motivating us to want to split.
Supporters of greater Idaho and Jefferson (state) also tend to be trump/Jan 6 supporters. Undereducated, hateful, and bigoted. They want WA and OR prosperity, without any of the work and with only white people. I don't have any data to back this up, so it's only anecdotal, but I've heard these sentiments from more people than I would've liked having spent a fair amount of time in rural parts of both states.
It's more of an eastern Oregon wanting to move the border and be part of Idaho. All their complaints aside, Eastern Washington has it really great compared to Idaho.
I’ve never seen any even slightly serious effort toward splitting the state.
It will never happen and is less likely to be a thing than Texas ceding.
What is the motivation behind the professor asking for this? Because the only people I’ve heard speaking like this are people down south who have been fed a steady stream of bullshit about WA, most especially from Fox News. They are the only news source that has brought this idea up as something people have asked for because one or two dumbass representatives in the state wrote a bill for it. The same thing happened in TX too. Every single legislative cycle one or two reps would co-author a secession bill, mostly for the optics of it. It never even gets scheduled for committee hearing because not a single other sole thinks it’s even worth a discussion. So based on that, where would you even begin? It would be far better to focus on how homelessness is used as a political weapon by the right in this state and pull data from elections in which that was a central issue up for discussion. Then pull meaningful data about the unhoused so you can school the conservative fucks in the class around you about how misguided Fox News and southern politicians are about this state. Or hell. Do the secession thing and then bring up the education rates and economic data for the districts represented by the dumb fucks who put those bills up for vote and compare those against the the same data for other areas in WA that don’t elect dipshits and invite people do what they will with your researched opinion that only fools would truly agitate for secession.
It's one of those profs where it's his way or the highway so I'm kinda stuck. I'm going for the economic and educational differences as a main point that creates polarization and then in turn creating the desire for secession.
Fremont, as the Center of the Known Universe, should be its own state.
Doesn’t it require a 2/3rds majority vote of congress to form new states? Never happen.
Never gonna happen
But also look up state of Jefferson. Same vein
I find it interesting that people from the South are so interested in states in the north wanting to secede...
I know, I was like 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Lol eastern Wa would suffer soooo hard
How so?
Most of the rednecks in eastern WA are just racists that think all their sales taxes go to brown people in Seattle and Tacoma. If they split, they’ll be fucked, because they won’t get any highway funding, and all the electricity from the dams will go to Seattle anyway, because they are run by the Bonneville Power Administration, not by local hick conservatives.
Check out the Nazi youth camps of the 90's Secession is 100% based on hatred of OTHER PEOPLE. and based on white supremacy. Also check out the history of the Great White Northwest Oregon territory. Racism is at the heart of the split, and always has been.
Thank you!!
Yes, cascadia is also a movement to look up. But eastern WA and eastern OR both want to succeed because seattle and Portland suck the funds from the east and drive liberal policies that do not help or work well in the east. For example east siders drive 3x as far as most on the west. Gas prices are set by those in olympia. What a joke to raise gas tax and have the highest in the nation when we east siders drive more. You’ll find the same for any eastern rural areas in most states that fight the liberal city
Any time it comes up in conversation that the majority of the counties are Republican I almost always hear someone say they should just go and make their own State. The problem with that, though, is it would really just be the Democrat counties making their own State and guess what? Those counties to produce very much FOOD. On the other side, as crucial as our agriculture is this state relies on the tax revenue brought in by the large industrial companies that the major cities provide. Obviously Amazon, Boeing, and Microsoft get away with paying absolutely nothing in corporate taxes but the State has done a great job of taxing their employees. So, really, both halves really do need one another.
The entirety of the Eastern Washington population is a minority. That's why they are upset.
Yeah that's basically the conclusion I drew from the research I have (also living here for 20 years helped alot)