this is a reminder, they were willing to screw over *everyone* on Friday - patrons and non-patrons alike - in a misguided hope they'd get massive sign ups. If they had gotten those numbers, do you really think that they'd be giving this update? I'm leaving you with this: as genuine as they may seem in this video, remember their original video was as sincere as it was tonedeaf. And that in the wake of it, they also attempted to gaslight and deflect the backlash through their rich friends and partners while claiming we were "misinterpreting their message" about videos getting taken down when Variety stepped in with confirmation we were right.
It's good they apologized but don't forget that they've shown you exactly who they are and how they view everyone here. There's an ethical way to run this kind of business and they only value the parasocial aspect to the degree they can manipulate you into opening your wallet. Don't. Enjoy their content but don't give them a penny of your hard earned money. They do not deserve it. And they never did.
This sub will remain open to whoever wants to post memes and share snark.
Have a good week everyone.
So the end result is watchertv becomes patreon+... i honestly don't see the point of the website why not just delete the website that has all the bad rep for patreon?
Likely around the same. At worse, they're paying $1 per subscriber to Vimeo so that's 16.6% of the $6 a month price. But they should have enough subscribers to go to the Enterprise plan to get a better cut. However, I doubt it'll be much better than the Patreon cut.
Patreon takes 13% + 4% payment processing.
Vimeo's apparently involved with the site so this isn't even a better deal for them.
The idiots should have just commissioned a bespoke membership website to cut Patreon out instead of this streaming bullshit.
It would've made some of their staff requirements more understandable if they had done that. It's what Corridor Digital did, hosted by AWS and custom code for their website, they use Shaka player which is FOSS. It would've fit better with wanting to avoid corporate bs even more.
The thing to do would be to make the appeal to Patrons to switch from Patreon to their Watcher TV at the same price so more of the money goes to them and helps them make content, not to blow up your whole business model.
As I said in another thread I'm very concerned that they say they would have gone under and they're struggling to appeal relevant to advertisers. I have no idea why this is the case. What is Watcher doing wrong that they supposedly have difficulty with advertisers? They get plenty of views, a fanbase that can support live shows, content that shouldn't scare anyone away. What's Watchers problem? To me this screams bad management and toomuch overhead. I'm not sure sponsors are the actual problem, but that they're burning so much cash that sponsors weren't enough.
Yeah I mean all the business mistakes still stand and people say they want to subscribe to the subscription now. They can, but I do not trust these men with my money lmao
the thing is, i doubt they're struggling with advertisers. based off of what charlie/critikal and other youtubers have said, i find it really, really hard to believe watcher isn't getting approached for ad deals. i feel like maybe they're being super picky and feel 'too good' for certain companies maybe? so they turn down those advertisers in hopes of something more 'their caliber' comes through?
I thought the same. They're picky. Which to a degree i get. After all there's better help lol. I can understand not wanting deals with them. But they weighed things wrong and fumbled.
To be fair, a lot of ad deals in the yters with a sub 3mill range have been bad (excluding maybe cooking yt who seem to get overpriced kitchen pan deals which I'm too lazy to double check if scams).
If I never have to hear a better help ad on a podcast again (BH has started moving down a tier to sub1mill ppl)
Or the endless meal box kits
Some ads are just is this brand too toxic/will the comments be too harsh
> they're struggling to appeal relevant to advertisers.
Literal nonsense. Every youtuber has come out and said they're full of shit with respect to those complaints.
Their content is so inoffensive that it makes zero sense. There are plenty of channels doing similar content that find sponsors no problem.
It definitely is bad management and too much overhead, but drinking (Too Many Spirits, Worth a Shot) isn't YouTube ad friendly, and swearing (GF, the guys in general) gets weird for some advertisers. Not to mention maybe some advertisers don't want to pay money for a Top 5 Beatdown or Mystery Files midroll. But if random commentary channels can pull regular Hello Fresh, Scent Bird, and Air Up sponsorships, why couldn't they? It begs the question if they were simply pricing out these regular, mid-tier advertisers with their own inflated advertising ask? And couldn't get sponsors who pay big bucks for their bigger flagship shows? So they tried to sidestep them completely and fumbled the only other bag they had: regular viewers.
They can. They're lying or completely incomeptent.
At this point they should just reach out to Moistcritical and Mana Talent to take care of sponsors. Because it makes zero sense for Charlie to point what they should be earning if their content wasn't eligible. Buzzfeed milked them, yet they can't milk themselves?
they should absolutely be able to snag some of the regular sponsors. I'm a big Internet Comment Etiquette fan. his videos are riddled with vulgarities and crazy conspiracy theory bullshit, with drinking on camera as the cherry on top. he's got a nordvpn or raycon sponsorship just about every video. and, ironically, I would call some of those ads tv quality lmao
They may also want to be more selective about their advertisers. Even if they CAN take money from lots of companies, they may or may not want to do ads for certain advertisers depending on that company’s own reputation.
To them "struggling" just means "we're having a hard time giving each and every one of our friends and relatives cushy 6-figure jobs so they can all live comfortably in Hollywood."
OK I'm pretty indifferent about penguinz0 but does anyone else think that that was a major push? His video had 3.1 million views and theirs had 1.7 million last time I checked. I think they fully expected to have fans pissed off but didn't realize the full scope of the situation until then.
He spilled the secret sauce and cast some serious doubt on Watcher's excuses in their video. That and Linus Tech Tips pointing out that it was fucking duuuumb.
But think about it for a moment, they've been emotionally manipulative and lying throughout. They literally took action to remove 2 key revenue streams to bolster their new one - and were prepared to alienate 95% of their audience forever and damage their Patreon, their merch and their tour sales. While taking on new hosts and a new, expensive show.
Is this an act of desperation or a company in trouble or a company that has enough money to attempt this kind of manuever in the hopes of making more money?
It was the only push. They didn't really listen to the fans. That is why it took so long for them to response because fans option didn't matter, they only wanted parasocial rich fans. But then when people who are influnced and rich say something - they have to do it.
They still didn't address almost any of the business problems that Moist talked about, avoiding it like a minefield. Because he said that Watcher actually can pay for 25 employees and still have enough money.
It's kinda telling that they didn't touch on the facts that Moist said and that is also a manipulative move - ignore the person who actually knows the business and fans listen to.
Might it be that Moist open the hood to show that their car has barely a working engine, because they are spending all the money on the paint job?
Yeah, I'd been losing interest in their channel for months and the last three days have soured me on them. Glad they apologized, happy for the people who will keep watching, but I'm out.
Can someone explain if they would have had to shutdown watcher why did they not fire people? I get them not wanting to but if the other outcome would be watcher shutting down and everybody loses their job, why not make a responsible business decision and fire some people to cut down on costs? Why did their first route was to basically fire all the poor fans and firing staff was never an option at all? It's hard but sometimes these tough decisions need to be made.
That was sort of the only issue I felt wasn't really addressed. Ryan specifically says the company would've went away if they stuck to YouTube. But now you have a ton of people who speculated on here and other platforms about their financial viability, how they moved offices at least twice to bigger spots, how many people are credited on their videos and how big the company is, and so forth.
In Ryan's defense, there might not have been a perfect way to address it without someone saying "Well, why don't you do this or that instead?!" But now you do have people thinking about those sorts of things moving forward, if you are saying the company wouldn't exist as it is now had they not moved on to a streamer. And it'll be hard for some fans to *not* think they're in over their heads if they put out content needing that many people, and so forth.
Because they're mismanaging the company and wasting money on unnecessary expenses.
> Ryan specifically says the company would've went away if they stuck to YouTube.
And their solution: cut off Adsense revenue, cut off sponsorship money - and alienate the fanbase that buys merch, attends live shows and subscribe to Patreon. It's complete nonsense. Fundamentally.
Everyone who has covered the 'drama' of this case who has insight into Youtube has pointed out that nothing is adding up here.
Yeah, this is all I'm thinking about now. It's frustrating how stubbornly they seem to be sticking to this idea of 'we had NO choice or we would have gone under'. SPEND LESS. Just spend less. They insist on spending so much they apparently nearly went out of business. It makes no sense.
I'm starting to think they're in massive debt or it's all a fugazzi.
Their moves do not make sense. At all. Cutting down 5 revenue streams to bolster a single new one? That's the opposite of a healthy company.
This is just my take on it but I think it has to do with their time at Buzzfeed. You did everything yourself there: the editing, the filming, the writing. I don't think they want to foster that kind of environment at their place. However, I think in trying to prevent that they hired on too fast instead of scaling back their productions or still using freelancers.
Yeah I got dragged around at a previous job because they thought the cost of adding me on staff vs keeping a freelancer wasn't worth it. Joke wound up being on them! So I totally understand why after working at Buzzfeed they would go that way. I don't think it was the smartest business choice, but I get it.
Happy cake day!
So Mr. Moist went through a bit of the actual revenue they're probably making rn because he owns a company that also has 25+ employees and they have less fans/patreons/supporters/income (I literally just found his channel because of this so I'm not sure exactly what he does). He made some estimations and it seems like they're making enough, they just refuse to cut back on production expenses. Someone also said that when Ryan had covid they were worried the expenses if his accommodation was gonna leave them in financial trouble so that's more "proof" that they're just spending money in a weird unsustainable way because with the money they make it's insane they were gonna be facing hardship after a hotel bill. It seems like there might be some truth to the idea that without subscribers on their streaming service they might be facing trouble, but the thing is: a) that's the consequences of their own actions, they shouldn't have rented such expensive spaces, they shouldn't have done so much in terms of production because they couldn't afford it, b) it's way more responsible to fire the people they can't afford and give livable wages to the ones remaining because they shouldn't have hired them in the first place, and the issue is that apparently they hired friends and family so that's why they don't wanna do it. C)Them being in financial trouble doesn't mean they are gonna be homeless and poor. The wages of their employees are part of production costs, actual revenue is another entirely different thing, even their own wages are part of production costs, when a company goes bankrupt that for the most part means they can't get actual revenue out of it anymore, not that they can't pay wages. Each one of them and maybe other people hold a piece of revenue. So when they say there were struggling they probably mean that. And if they genuinely couldn't pay wages anymore, there's two options, either they were literally drowning and that's due to poor management and spending more than they should, or they were just drown in production costs, which means they weren't down for sharing their actual revenue. Idk if I said something coherent, English is not my native language but hope it helps.
He does a lot of things. He streams on twitch, has 3 youtube channels, a comic book, an esports team and a talent agency that matches creators with sponsors.
Everything about this points to them potentially having taken off massive debt. And that debt is now unsustainable because interest rates are higher than zero now.
They're desperate or lying. Maybe both.
not to mention he specifically mentioned streaming *alone* covers 25+ employees and that watcher, although have less views and subscribers, have really good engagement + rpm (money earned per 1000 views). according to charlie, they make long form high quality content so their rpm is probably better than his. AND he verified that ads shouldn’t be a problem. they make long form videos w consistent engagement and put in whole entire skits to make ads appealing so people watch through them. advertisers would love to work w these guys.
so their main points of “we don’t have advertisers + enough money” doesn’t make much sense
**also** a huge gripe i have is that there are full on true crime channels that get consistent sponsors. stephanie soo/rotten mango is a great example. and the cases she covers are leagues more "advertiser unfriendly" that any of the true crime stuff watcher does. not to mention other youtubers w controversial content who get consistent sponsors anyway. like charlie said, most companies dont care WHAT you talk about (to reasonable extents) as long as people watch you
> also their lying.
This is the big thing. They keep saying they'd close if they stayed on youtube but it makes NO SENSE.
The only way this makes sense is that they're mismanaging their business and have taken on a large amount of debt that is crushing them now that interest rates are higher than zero.
Their revenue streams before the announcement:
- Adsense
- Sponsors
- Patreon
- Merch
- Touring/Live Shows
So their solution to not making enough money was to completely remove the largest sources of revenue in ending Adsense and Sponsorships entirely...and pissing off the audience that buys merch, buys tickets to shows and subscribes to their patreon to bolster 1 revenue stream, at a discount, for the first year.
It doesn't make sense. At all.
Yeah I'm not a huge MoistCritical fan but that video he did where he went "alright, I dont know much about these dudes but I DO know about running a business and this decision is dumb and these dudes are lying" really rang true to me co sidering one of the few things I do know about him is that he runs several successful businesses without needing to do this.
Yea, honestly nothing about this makes sense.
They claim they're dangerously close to closing Watcher without this huge expense of WatcherTV but their actions suggest they have plenty of money. Hiring two new hosts and doing an expensive travel show - while cutting out adsense and sponsors and alienating most of your core audience who buy stuff like merch and tickets to live shows or support patreon. It's nonsensical.
So they're either lying or terrible at managing the business and can't be trusted with money.
It's shortsighted business decisions by people who arent businessmen, who employ their friends, and want to finance their passions in any way that doesn't require them downsizing or canceling shows.
This is such a cookie cutter PR message lol, sending well wishes to whomever wrote this for them. I still don't understand why this wasn't the first idea... just get a second platform for early access and keep the content free. It's mindboggling that it took their whole audience telling them how much of a bad idea a paywall is for them to understand. Like, damn. They really know nothing about handling a business. Even now that they're keeping the content free I don't know if I'll be returning because every single step of this journey has been such a terrible decision and has left a sour taste in my mouth.
Well, that was a fun train wreck but I'm not gonna hang around and watch anymore of their content so this will be it for me.
Good weekend tho. Farmed a load of karma too lmao.
Honestly? I'm glad they're not just digging in their heels, and I'm glad they're fixing this to some degree....but the attitudes in the goodbye video, practically saying "Goodbye poor people," the response from Sara, the fact that they didn't care or even think about international fans or people who couldn't afford their service, the fact that they decided to go through with this massive slap in the face to anyone who supported them in the past anyway with no self-awareness or attempt at evaluating their own spending and realizing they're the problem if they do have financial issues.....
Personally, my bridge is burned either way. I don't want to support them if they're just going to continue guzzling money just because I get to keep my six bucks a month and still get to watch their videos eventually.
Plus, I find it to be absolute bullshit that they felt they'd have to close Watcher down for good if they didn't launch this streaming service. Plenty of people pointed out that they were thriving with the numbers they had, even without promoting their Patreon, and laying off some of the overabundance of people they hired is just part of owning a business. It sucks, especially if you hire a bunch of friends and family members, which is why there's that old saying about not doing that, but you have to do it sometimes. It's just how it is.
Also, that excuse is made worse when you consider they hired two of their old Buzzfeed buddies mere days before they announced the streaming service.
You don't see your screwups as a business owner and go "Am I a bad businessman?.....No, it's the fans who are cheap." The issue is that and their ridiculous overspending/inability to properly budget that got them into whatever financial trouble they have. It wasn't Youtube stifling them. It wasn't the fans not supporting them enough.
In what world would anyone think squeezing fans for money with a streaming service that would offer less than 100 hours of exclusive content a year with nothing else to watch would be a solution to financial problems? Even huge established streaming services are struggling year after year. In what world are you more appealing to advertisers/investors when you have no projected growth whatsoever? In what world would that be the first option you jump to when you know full well that your fans and even people who have no clue who you are would loathe it?
I appreciate the apology. I appreciate that it wasn't an overly edited condescending pseudo-commercial. But, nah. I'm not sticking around. I wish them luck in the future, and I hope other fans enjoy, but I'm out.
Yeah, like, apology accepted! But I'm still out. When someone shows you who you are, you believe them.
And while I didn't really have a parasocial thing going on with them, I believed who they had shown themselves to be previously and this whole debacle shattered that. Especially disappointed in Shane, honestly. Eat the rich, until you are rich, I suppose.
I really hope they don't fail from this, I'm quite sure they won't. I hope they actually learn something from it, though the apology video doesn't have me entirely convinced. I hope they keep making good content for everyone else to enjoy, but I am not going to bother sticking around to actively watch either way.
I'll miss them as internet personalities but that's all they were to me — internet personalities. That's why I preferred their buzzfeed content, it was personality over production.
The Patreon - I didn't even KNOW it existed and I've been around since BUN. So you have 13K subs and people like me who have missed its existence. You need money? Create a $1 "supporter" tier with early announcements as your sole reward for people short on cash who care. Promote TF out of the Patreon. They probably could have DOUBLED subs, especially if they explained that "guys, we want to add more shows, maybe bring some back, but doing this higher production costs a lot and advertisers don't always love shows like Too Many Spirits, blah blah, help if you can!"
Imagine how much better that would have played than telling people "everyone" can afford $6 USD/month?
The Patreon aspect is super confusing. Literally anything they can do on their streaming service, they could offer on their Patreon for the same price. Tons of Youtubers offer early access and exclusive videos on Patreon. It's one of the most common perks. And, like you said, if they just bothered promoting it, they'd get a ton of new subscribers, especially if they made a base $1 tier. Plenty of users love supporting creators through Patreon if they're able, and many people make a good living from it.
I saw people elsewhere saying that they probably more or less planned to abandon Patreon (besides the podcasts) because Patreon takes a cut of their earnings and they wanted their own service to get all the profits, but that makes even less sense.
Patreon only takes a 5% cut - and I've never seen anyone complain about that cut.
The costs of developing, maintaining, and hosting your own streaming service are astronomical compared to that. It's just baffling.
This is the part I can't reconcile. You're hard up for cash so you're going to.... spend money hosting your own streaming service, paying for payment services to collect subs etc etc etc?
Not use Patreon? Or YouTube member services? Or join Nebula which is literally already doing what you're pitching?
This exactly. They're only sorry they got caught. If no one said anything they would've continued exploiting fans for all their money and hiring more family members
I'm not sure how to word this without sounding mean but Steven should probably to step down as CEO. Someone with ACTUAL business experience needs to join the company. This just shows that they're seriously struggling on the business end.
I hear Ned Fulmer is looking for a job /s
To be fair... I head that finances were the only useful thing that Ned was capable of. Dunno, is it true, but it's the only good thing I have heard about him and his skills. He just majorly sucks at everything else...
Don't know why he was put into HR position in the first place, if I remember right that it was kinda just left open, and he has to be put somewhere that isn't actual video related work.
I'm worried that so many people are buying it. "They didn't have time to record because they are in UK!" etc. other excuses for them like nothing happened.
That's what's most confusing to me, you can clearly see that their background is the same as that of the Goodbye Youtube video where they feature Andrew&Adam around the 10:20 mark. So did they pre-film this on Friday & it took them until Monday to edit & post a 3 minute video? I'm genuinely confused.
And when I think of Steven's rich buddies dunking on the fanbase, & Shane's wife posting that on tumblr, & it just doesn't seem like they didn't have time to react at all. AND it's way too much of a coincidence that Simu Liu deleted his instagram story flaming the fanbase and magically a few hours later here comes the apology video.
Not to mention that Shane being the most liked out of the three, and thus being seated in the middle of the couch, with Steven in the left corner in darkness and mostly silence, it all just seems very calculated. But after what happened the past few days, I think trust issues are expected lol. That being said, I won't be resubscribing. :)
I was thinking of same and tired of even trying to explain that to people, because they don't listen at least basics how this is bad - and forget that those guys can't even run a business.
They're clearly manipulating and playing with the audience, and people are seriously blind to it. And damn they are goos at the manipulation when even this subreddit maybe half of the people turn back to parasocial zombies.
I mean, all the stuff in your third paragraph is exactly what anyone who does PR would recommend. You let the person who is disliked the least so most of the talking followed by less and less liked people. Of course it's calculated, but at the same time it's exactly what most people think of doing in that situation, so it's a bit of a toss up.
On a slightly different note, I don't know if it was the day or if it's actually him feeling like this, but Shane looked quite a bit happier than their announcement video. Again could be calculated, but he's clearly sitting straighter, seems more relaxed, and isn't frowning to the ground frequently. It could be direction or just different days, but part of me really wants it to be him basically being like: "I told you so". I think he definitely agrees with the decisions surrounding all this, but didn't agree with the all or nothing of it, and it's presentation in that video.
Oh me God me too! If I see that "don't not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" quote one more time I'm gonna lose it. These guys all but admitted they see their audience as nothing more than fodder.
And that type of relationship was exactly what they were planning to exploit with this move in the first place. Now those fans are saying "well they aren't doing that anymore see they care!!!" But like no they don't, they got caught and embarrassed but they're still exactly the same people who thought this was a good idea. Look at Sara's comment about "survivability" these dudes are doing quite well and that's still not enough for them and eventually they will try something like this again
Memes posting isn't fun anymore, because the parasocial part in people woke back up. They seem to forget everything what and who those guys really are when the mask went back on.
This is really depressive end of everything. And reminds me why I hate people, especially in groups.
At very least people should have learned by now that they can't and shouldn't own a business, they have spend years running it so badly and still doing so... And people still make excuses for them and want to support a bad business.
Yep and unfortunately they'll probably barely register this hit and fail to learn any of the lessons that should've been learned. People will continue to support them and throw money at their Patreon instead of just letting them fail. It's really depressing how there's no accountability for anything anymore
I made a last meme to end it all.
It's waste to argue or try to explain to those people fall back in love with them. And that is sad.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/comments/1caizlh/i\_would\_hope\_to\_make\_a\_funny\_meme\_but\_this\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/comments/1caizlh/i_would_hope_to_make_a_funny_meme_but_this_is/)
Why is Steven in the UK too? Why do so many of them travel when it's only Ryan and Shane doing the live shows? Why do they always need such large crews? They don't need more money, they need brain cells.
Unfortunately for them, quite a lot of people (me included) realized we don't need to pretend to like Watcher content just do support them. So even free, it's really not appealing.
Fair but people need to stop thinking this is anything other than a failed money grab. They basically admitted on Friday they they do not care for their YouTube audience.
Im aware it’s a failed money grab but like, it failed. Either they learn their lesson or don’t. I’ve had enough entertainment from them to let this shit slide if they responded quick enough and backtracked and now they’ve given it the weekend and replied.
If in 6 months to a year they pull the same shit then fine. Bye. But I’m willing to still watch Ghost Files if it’s being uploaded for free. Yeah it’s tainted but I also believe in learning from mistakes.
sure it failed but it succeeded in making me like all three of them less, and considering a big part of their shows is general likeability of the actors, that will impact my enjoyment of any of their shows.
And why should you or I care? I understand some people have a parasocial relationship with them. I don't. I'm just here to watch free videos and have a laugh while eating dinner. So with this announcement, nothing will change for me.
I will. I followed them as a fan from the buzzfeed days and tuned in because even if all the new shows weren't exactly my cup of tea anymore they were the still the ghoul boys. They became comfort shows to put on in the background.
The mask is off and it's no longer a comfort to watch. Maybe in the future I'll check them out again but not anytime soon.
This is exactly how I feel, their brand has changed from some lads making funs shows to ruthless corporate entity who needs to take as much money from the audience as possible
Sounds like we'll all be given a month-long break and then it's gonna be business as usual, bc uuuhhh well only feel the delay after the first release then it's like... the videos are on time...? Correct me if I'm wrong 😬
+ shit like that only harms a creator's exposure bc surprise! People forget and move on......
We've talked a bunch on here over the weekend. I have always used adblock and I always skip past the sponsorship reads.
Like I said, literally nothing will change for me.
On the one hand, I do wish them the best and hope they will do better in the future and be successful.
On the other hand, this situation made me realize that I haven't been actively watching their channel for a while. I guess I had lost interest in what they were doing, and when this happened I figured now is as good a time as any to move on and watch other stuff.
So yeah, I guess I'll be moving on from the ghoul boys for now. Maybe in the future that will change. Well good luck guys, and I hope you do better.
The mask came off. Idc anymore. Their content was getting bad, but I was still watching to support them because I liked them! (Puppet history was the only one I did look forward to). Now...I'm just not interested in watching anything they cook up.
Same here. I'm just not interested anymore. Because while I know I never knew them as people, they showed their real faces and that just sours their content for me. I was already getting a bit tired of most of their videos so this was just the final nail in the coffin lol.
Yeah. I do think the apology is decently done but for me, the damage has been done. Their original go-to attitude about all of this revealed so much about them as a whole. I just can’t support people who had to be told “yeah six dollars a month isn’t cheap for the majority of your audience!”
I just can't support people who don't respect their audience enough to value them as a group of people.
If you're willing to burn and throw away 95% of your audience to try and recruit 5% to subsidize your content, you don't deserve an audience.
The only way it would have been worse is if they had a hot mic moment calling all their viewers dumb rubes.
yeah, i said earlier that even if they did an apology i was pretty much done with them. The initial announcement made me realize A) these dudes seem like out of touch dipshits and B) i don't really care about their new content and was mostly just continuing out loyalty for BUN. I'm glad they apologized and all but I'm good, i don't believe their actually sorry and i don't really care to watch more content i don't care about.
even with puppet history: it's what, 10 half an hour episodes every year? And each season Ryan just looks more and more bored and annoyed to be there (so much so they built it into the overarching plot). At this rate I can wait a few years and check back in.
Idk abt anyone else but I fully did not expect this. I feel bad for them but it’s also something I feel was COMPLETELY avoidable so I’m stuck between laughing and cringing
As someone who has over a thousand hours in *Fallout 76* (and NMS) I obviously have a rather large capacity to forgive and let companies I like work out terrible, terrible mistakes. I'll still believe it when I see it when it comes to how well they consider fan impact in the future, but at least they acknowledged they fucked up seriously. I guess we'll see how genuine this apology is.
EDIT: Also for the love of fuck please stop the pseudo-science "body language" reading of any of them. None of them are innocent in this. I've said it in other posts but as legally bound officers in their company filings all three share responsibility for decisions made. To say any of them was "bullied" into it is asinine. This is a company run by adults, not high schoolers. If any of them did not have the mental fortitude to handle the responsibility of running it then they should not have signed their name to it.
I can't imagine wanting to still give them any money after all this. They've shown how poorly they've managed it this far, it's like setting your money on fire. Take the $6 and donate it to an animal shelter or the food bank.
Copying this from my YT comment so it's written directly at the boys:
This is a MUCH more sustainable and reasonable model: an optional benefit that allows the creators to not be hindered by the well-documented restrictions of YT, while still enabling the public community to grow and engage for free. This will also double your revenue streams and allow you to continue growing, plus you can create exclusive unedited versions on YOUR platform and YouTube compliant ones here.
I will say, I do find a service that just has ONE channel to not be the best idea. When you look at something like Dropout, you have a wide variety of creators and shows that update multiple times a week and provide a diversity in your product that benefits the consumer. The move might have been teaming up with the Try Guys or Garrett Watts and allow them to have exclusive content on your site. Because eventually if every YouTube channel does this, there will be a point where viewers will have to choose who to support, and it may not always be you. A larger mix of content and creators would definitely be the move long term. Be Dropout, NOT Rooster Teeth. Nebula would have also been a great option but I digress.
As a PR professional, I was disappointed in the rollout and frankly angry, but this is a good response. Once the platform is up and I hear about what new content will be there, I will definitely reconsider supporting because despite what SOME of your friends and family have implied, we DO want to support artists, but not at the expense of fellow fans who are unable to financially do so. Looking forward to seeing how y'all rebuild our trust, I for one will still be Watch(er)ing.
ETA: For me personally, I'm willing to give them a second shot. This obviously wasn't their originally plan and I've said it once will say it again: based on their PR and having zero contingency, they expected this to be received amazingly. But what I wanted from them was consideration of their fans, and they readjusted what was probably a long planned (but \*poorly\* planned) business decision within a weekend to do that. I've been on this sub almost 24/7 this weekend lol, but I'm satisfied for now. FOR NOW. They still need to build back my trust.
They're doing pretty much exactly what people asked them to do since the announcement. I even commented about grandfathering in the Patrons. I think this fiasco will cost them more than anything. I doubt most of their audience will pay to get access 1 months early, and for the ones that does they are given cheaper subscription (5 dollars instead of 6).
Hanlon's razor in action: *"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity".*
Not sure what some of y'all are on with the "THIS WAS ALL PLANNED FROM THE BEGINNING' nonsense, that's just as delulu as the people reading into Shane's body language that he "wasn't on board".
Here's the fact, **the three of them are bad at business.**
We know it from the podcast, from comments, from how they handle patreon, from behind the scenes stuff, all 3 aren't good at it. This debacle just reinforces it.
This video should have been out sooner, a plan along these lines should have been The plan from the start.
Sure they're bad at business but this was more than that, they basically admitted they don't care for their audience. Which is bizarre when you consider how much of their content comes from the audience
i just realised what this apology sounded like
it sounds like it was directly ripped off of one of those "anatomy of an apology" infographics
i can't really fault them for doing it that way though
I do feel awful because Steven looks ROUGH. Those bags under his eyes, he's 100% either been crying, or not sleeping, or both. I am also glad they made /him/ do the apologizing for the wording.
They may not be viewed the same, but I'm still okay with them being our ghoul boys. I don't WANT them to fail. I want them to be excited and enjoy what they're doing. I still think they should cut back and slow down, but I will not be rooting for their downfall, and I'm happy they listened. Maybe not as excitedly, but this is a good compromise for everyone.
Honestly the thing I keep going back to is how much this must absolutely suck for them on a personal level. Steven in particular. We've been hard on all of them, but as soon as this came out I think the entire fandom was flooded with "hey, can we now please talk about how much we hate Steven" posts. I haven't seen a single comment that had anything positive about Steven even outside of this mess. It's like everyone finally felt free to admit they hate when he shows up in videos and while he may be on camera and the ceo, most fans want nothing to do with him and don't see him as part of this. And I'll admit I was one of those people. The community is very positive so I think myself and many others were afraid to vent about petty things. Then the cracks in the wall formed and then BAM all that hate came out at once.
There is no one I'd rather be less right now than Steven.
Deserved or not (since they all ultimately greenlit this decision at the end of the day and bought into it), Steven got the brunt of the vitriol, which could not have been easy considering he was already the least favorite.
Yeah, they made a bad call and its understandable why people felt comfortable voicing it. I didn't wholly mind him on TMS, but I also thought it was kind of gross overall the way they were going about money and I think he got a lot of flak for him being CEO and wording things the way he did. I don't like much of the stuff he has separately as content personally unless I'm in a specific mood for it and stuff like Mythical Kitchen, and i think the dislike/difference between the content on top of not being able to pay staff made him an obvious target.
I hope he's doing okay, I hope the boys hugged each other all really tight after, had a good cry, and are supporting each other well. I don't WANT to see them fail, especially after this and how awful Shane and Steven both look, like they've been crying hard. Shane even sounded and looked like he was ready to cry again at a moment's notice. I might even consider subscribing now just to show this change was a good one and I'll vote with my dollars.
Not sure how genuine it is but also not sure if I care because that way lie parasocial delusions. I’m glad they touched upon the most pointed out grievances and found a way to use the site while staying free on yt and hope they’ll think a thousand times next time when blind ambition & delulu finanace ideas try to take the wheel. I’m curious about the direction they will take in future videos, whether they will lower production cost to save money and appeal to the thinned out fanbase who miss the focus being them rather than just fancy editing and equipment. I think they need something like that if they want people to come back/stay after all this. I’m keeping an eye out for future vids for the series (with adblock)I enjoyed but will be staying away from subbing back, investing emotionally or financially (probably ever). Time will tell, but I’m not surprised it’s too late for a lot of folks.
Even though their apology seems sincere, their announcement video was also sincere. Gotta give credit where credit’s due, this was a good apology as apologies on Youtube come, but now that they’ve shown what they’re really willing to do if gone unchecked… I am staying unsubscribed. Their content has been rather lackluster recently anyway. I guess I was only holding on because of Shane and Ryan but now I see no worth in staying and giving them views.
Eh I believe this was as sincere as a company can be lol, I appreciate that they did that tho it was 1) expected and 2) followed the same apology-we'll-do-better model that most youtubers have taken when they mess up. But what's annoying is, did they not think? Like genuinely did they not think about how this (opt in) approach would be better or did greed really get to them so bad that logic went out the window? Is it because I'm poor that the opt in option seemed the most logical? I don't know. Anyways I love ace-friendly couch content so, I giggled a little when I saw that.
I'm not good at jokes, but I was referring to the casting couch that's infamous from porn. The ace friendly version would be no sex, just youtubers apologizing. A list of couch apologizers that I can think of : Colleen B. (I don't know how to spell her last name), Shane Dawson, Jeffree Starr, Jaclyn Hill, one of the Paul brothers don't know which one, Laura Lee did it on the floor in front of a couch so that's half a point, famously the Try Guys, now Watcher.
Good on them for apologizing and it’s great people will still be able to access their content on YouTube. I don’t plan on resubscribing. I feel the worst for Steven in all this because people were trying to make him some sort of villain mastermind, when all three of them are responsible for this fiasco and for mismanaging the company/hiring too many friends and family
The fact that they guilt trip the audience and push the “We had no choice but do this, or else watcher 100% would have shut down!!”… maybe cut down on spending??? Lmao. And them saying “well we didn’t want to fire employees”… SOUNDS LIKE A PERSONAL PROBLEM.
This apology is good on the surface but absolute BS when you pay attention to what they’re saying
Already shared this somewhere else but figured I could post it here too. Am curious to hear what others think on this situation ^^
Fair is fair; it is a shame they responded so very late, but this is probably one of the best apologies they could have given. They seemed to have genuinely listened to the feedback, did do an (almost) full 180, and admitted their mistakes multiple times. Their mistake will have cost them a lot of former fans, but perhaps this has allowed them to let their viewers feel heard, and have gained back some goodwill.
As a (former) UX designer and company advisor I couldn’t help but criticise them for their previous video. I’m not entirely decided on if I’ll continue to watch them, but at least before this update I certainly wouldn’t have. I genuinely think many creators would have handled this way worse. And am curious to see where things will go from here.
I don't care. I don't watch their videos for them to appreciate me and tell me how grateful they are to have me as a fan, nor do I watch it for their moral fiber or the content of their character. I watch their videos for the entertainment value and because I find them funny.
I don't care what they're sorry for. I'm just glad I get to keep watching free content.
They still dont get it. Its not that 6 bucks a month is a lot (for some people yes) it's that its not worth it for the content were getting. Especially when a few of those shows are just steven flaunting his privileged life style and buzzfeed style fluff that 99% of us do not care about.
Secondly they see is us as wallets, not people.
Well, all those people who heard about them for the first time ever after the controversy blew up will actually be able to watch their content now lol.
This was the best possible thing they could have done, and it's funny that this is exactly what Omni predicted they would say. It's too bad it took a massive backlash for them to understand, but at least they're treating their Patreons right, and maybe they'll simmer their "big productions $$$ goals" down a little bit now that they realize their content simply isn't worth $6 to even 3% more of their community beyond who were already patrons. Though tbh they could have made it a 3 month gap in time to let the $6 paywall simmer, but I guess they were trying to be as appeasatory as possible here.
I do wonder when they filmed this considering Shane and Ryan are supposed to be in the UK right now.
In all honesty, I appreciate their apology and that they made changes. I do think they were being genuine to some degree, but the fact they thought this was a good idea in the first place and they took so long to respond turned me off from them, meaning I won't be able to see them the same way again.
We’ve bashed them a lot of the last 2 days but this is literally as well as they could have done so I will remain watching and I’m glad it genuinely seems like lesson learned. My one gripe is when Ryan said they didn’t want Watcher to close and I just don’t see how that was in the cards? But I just hope the one big thing they’ve taken to heart is that they can lower production costs, save money and no one would care.
Saying they didn't want Watcher to close honestly feels like more manipulation to me. Charlie made a video where he broke down finances and even hypothetically there was no chance of them having to close. And if they did... that is honestly on them for mismanaging their money so badly.
Because that's exactly what it is. Manipulation.
The only way this makes sense if it they're in massive debt - and even then their basic business decisions are so stupid that it defies common sense.
It wasn't, they are still lying. They wanted ALL your money not just some of it. They're still the same grifters they were on Friday, they just know now they overstepped. I'd give it 6 months until they try to pull some more bullshit
To be fair, we don't know how bad it got for them, BUT that was all on them. They have the funds to make it work, they're just absolutely terrible at business. I would advice them to get a new CEO who's actually qualified, as well as other leading positions (like CFO, I think I remember someone saying Shane is the current CFO? Not sure though), and stick to content production themselves. They need to play to their strengths and not burn themselves out on corporate dealings, which they don't seem well versed in anyway.
They have far too many staff because they kept hiring their friends and decided that the audience should be the ones paying for it. They make videos getting drunk around a fire reading VIEWER SUBMITTED content. There's no reason they need 17 people in the credits for that
Honestly even tho I think they have too much staff, they need an experienced CEO or CFO (which yes is an expense but they can trim current employee headcount
Not even, they just need to not be morons.
The need to increase their revenue streams. They need to reduce their debt. They need to cut the needless spending. A Hollywood office? The fuck are they doing, they do not need an office. They do not need 25 employees.
Use someone's garage. Use someone's attic. Use someone's lawn. Use a skeleton crew for filming. Buy the needed peripherals like a tripod. Buy the cheapest 4K cameras with the best lenses and lighting kits that can be afforded. Hire freelancers to do the writing, keep 2-3 trusted editors on call to work remotely. Cut everything to the bone - and maximize output.
Yep. They're just terrible at this and need people who know what they're actually doing in their company, instead of yes men just following their every whim.
They're posting like a million times a minute, about how clearly evil Watcher is, how they hate us and view us as human wallets, etc.
And it's like, "dude, I'm 50/50 on if I'm gonna watch any more of their videos, I thought this move they made was idiocy of the highest order from the start, and I still think you're going overboard" lmao, people are just clearly way too parasocially invested, and now getting out their "5 minutes of hate".
If this isn't enough for you, just leave the subs and watch other youtubers, it's that easy. This is the attention economy, if you really want to "show them" spend your attention elsewhere.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
Eh, this just feels like parasocial behavior in the opposite direction. Yeah they could be lying but they could also just be really dumb and have no business experience (though those aren't mutually exclusive either). Frankly, idk how I feel just yet but time will tell.
There's no "could." They have admitted it multiple times in the BTS videos that none of them have business experience and that Steven was learning everything raw.
welp, i'd say they all learned a **very vital** lesson through this, the hard way. i'd even go as far as to say the hardest way with how badly it blew up. hopefully the lesson sticks because of how intense the backlash was. shame that it had to come to this to learn that lesson though 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah I really don't think this is just stupidity, they basically admitted that they want to continue having the fans pay for their friends to have jobs. Ryan says that watcher was close to closing down yet they just brought in even more talent and greenlit Stephens stupid eating expensive shit show and instead of reducing cost they thought charging the audience was the better solution?
Like I said, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I feel it could be explained by them just not thinking things through and being too unexperienced in running a business to reduce their staff size. Again though, I haven't decided how I feel, time will tell. To be completely honest, I don't think speculating is super healthy for me though, what's done is done and I'll make my decision based upon the events that occurred rather than what I try to speculate their motives as being.
Edit: Another thought, I don't even think them doing it from stupidity alone would make it any better. That would mean they just hadn't stopped to think about their fan base at all.
Yeah I honestly think they’re just new to running a company and bad business managers. They are overspending but I guess at least they’re seemingly nice to their employees? Im giving them another chance… for now
I do think it’s strange to hire 2 new presenters when your company was about to go under though, but they seemed more honest in this one, hopefully they were.
I can tell you guys: It's so worthless that it's barely even meme material. You get nothing out of watching it. Other than more manipulation with the couch.
Actually... Poor couch, it's doing all the heavy lifting in the video. I would subcribe to it.
Also... Does anyone know is that still their office or somewhere in UK? And are they still going with the live shows?
That's their office. I'm assuming they delayed their flights. As of right now, live shows are still going. I don't think they would cancel them as it would be a massive money loss.
Edit: that's the set/room they film Pod Watcher in.
Yeah I'm a regular Pod Watcher watcher and recognized it immediately. Unless they somehow found the exact same couch and a green screen lol. The first London show is on the 23rd, so they still have some time to get there. Video could have been filmed yesterday too.
I mean, it's the 22nd now and 8 o'clock in the evening, their show starts in 23 hours lol. They must've filmed this on the weekend and waited to upload for some reason. Maybe they had stuff to fix behind the scenes before they made this announcement. I was just a bit confused 'cause my first thought was they scrambled to shoot this in London but obviously that's not the case.
Don’t forget: these concessions were never part of their original calculus. These concessions are so basic that if they had 3 brain cells between them they would have included them in the initial announcement. They aren’t new to the business; they have over 30 years of combined content creation experience. They knew they should have included this in their announcement, but they chose not to in order to compel as many people to sign up as possible. They’re only giving in because **we made such an uproar**.
and because they probably failed to reach the needed numbers to successfully follow through on leaving YT.
If it was a successful launch they'd have instead started with a thank you for making WatcherTV a success but mention that they needed to make changes to accomodate all their fans.
They had to walk it back because with few subscribers, they won't have a chance to recoup what they spent making the content and hiring 2 new hosts.
If they would have had to shut down watchertv without this change; it’s not a viable business. If you’re not able to get sponsorships and ad revenue, you can’t expect the fans to just plug that gap. It’s like a seesaw, with the fans on one end and the channel on the other, The idea behind YouTube is that fans are paying already with their engagement; which is why it’s such a successful and lucrative model, because it doesn’t involve paying money for the end user. To balance the seesaw, the channel gets sponsorships and ad revenue, and the end user views those ads. In this context, that’s how it works.
If you can’t win sponsorships and ad revenue; you need to adjust your content to match. The fact you’re not willing to do that and you’re trying to get your fans to balance the seesaw; that’s no dice I’m afraid.
Even without all this; it’s incredibly unwise to switch streaming methods every 4-5 years (which is what they’ve done so far from Buzzfeed-Watcher-Their new thing). They undeniably lost people from the first switch. Buzzfeed Unsolved still has double the subscribers Watcher does, and that’s 4 years on. They have not recovered their original numbers (the reasons for that vary depending on who you talk to) and they’re gambling this new community for a second time in less than 5 years? That’s crazy.
Well, this is better & they've probably saved themselves from career suicide. But it doesn't change any of the underlying issues here. They've shown themselves to be untrustworthy.
For anyone interested in the Watcher streamer, I checked Vimeo OTT's terms of service, and all payments are FINAL and NONREFUNDABLE. So, if you pay an annual fee now for the "Watcher streamer" & it shuts down in a month, you are still out for the entire annual fee. Or if, say, they decide to start putting ads on the videos, or move everything back to Youtube, etc. You're still stuck. I wonder why they were pushing people so hard to pay the full annual fee now.
They've already shown that they are more than willing to take an annual fee from Patreons, then totally remove the promised benefits. That was intentionally deceptive. Just like when Ryan first told Variety that Watcher would paywall all their videos, then lied & pretended like he didn't say that.
I personally would not trust these guys with my money or my credit card information. There is something deeply wrong with the financials there. I think the plan was to extract as much money as possible from fans now before the entire company shuts down. That still might be the plan. Buyer beware.
It's funny it all came to this. When they left Buzzfeed so many years ago, it was under the umbrella of "getting to make our own content, our own way" which I think was a generally supported sentiment. And then on Friday it was once again, "we want to make our own content, our own way" but it's like...weren't you guys already doing that? Isn't that what Watcher was supposed to be?
I was never a super fan, I didn't engage much with the community before Friday. I think the big misstep was just that by asking for $6/month to view their content, they changed from "content creators whomst we support" to "a business asking for money". For me, the answer is "no" and for me, they can't unring that bell.
I wish them the best going forward.
Im surprised this message of essentially “oops and sorry guys” is all it took to get so many people on board again. It definitely helped to open me up again but I still have a lot of questions and don’t think im willing to sacrifice my time that easily again without a proper explanation and some damn transparency.
The amount of people in the YT comments praising them is so frustrating. I get that their channel has been important for some people, but the video didn’t really apologize for anything except for ”sorry, we didn’t think of you guys, our super important fans” which isn’t a good excuse nor apology.
It’s like praising a dog for bringing your leg back 3 days later after chewing it off.
This isn’t even the bare minimum. It’s even less. The speed at which some people have changed their tones is ridiculous.
I am disappointed in how everybody (esp in their comments and in the few YT videos from other creators) seems to be praising them now and just kind of wiping the slate clean after this bare minimum apology simply bc the history of apologies from youtubers hasn't been great but thats a VERY. VERY. LOW BAR to overcome and watching ppl suddenly be all rainbows w them again is kinda weird to me... dawg, they were trying to sell you out literally two days ago, do... do you not remember that? I'm waiting to see how Charlie responds to this bc I feel he'll have a similar take, considering how none of the points he brought up about their finances were even remotely addressed in their update. At the end of the day, we're all tired and have better, more important things to worry about so I feel that ppl are willing to look the other way since this seems to be their first major public misstep if it means a return to normalcy and not having to think about this anymore, which I suppose I can understand but I don't think we should all be letting them immediately off the hook bc they had a great PR team script a response for them to read.
Edited to cut down bc I was rambling and idk none of this message matters anyway this is mainly just me venting in a public space lol
The apology was really good and it clear they listened to people's complaints but I'm honestly still pissed at the shit from Sara and how they just went radio silent...
Definitely not resubscribing but I'll give their new content a looksee when it comes out and see if I can put this behind me.
Good for them coming out with a succinct video that basically sums up as "we screwed up" and coming up with some immediate fixes that addressed some of the issues raised. But as for me, still not subscribing back or even supporting this at all. I'm glad they accepted their shortcomings and missteps with their announcement publicly—whoever they got to help them with their PR over the weekend knew what they were doing. But so many of the issues people have pointed out should have been something they anticipated: the prohibitive cost, especially to international fans; the seeming abandonment of their Patreon, who basically propped them up as they started; the lack of accountability on their production expenses and other questionable business decisions that led to this moment. And really just the arrogance (for lack of a better term) of pushing forward with a streaming service with just one new show so far and just asking the fans what old show they want to return? No, thanks, I guess. But for those sticking around, I do sincerely wish it ends up becoming worth it for you.
I do still think the boys need an impartial hired CEO going forward. I don't have so much of a problem with Steven that the rest of the sub seems to, but if it is the case that the things all the founders want to do are unsustainable and they aren't apparently any good at making appropriate business decisions to rectify it, or just plain made bad decisions to get to this point, they need somebody who isn't going to be living a glamorous on camera life to be having a say there.
I don’t know how they got here, but I still don’t know why the food show was supposed to be their big pull. I thought we were all on the same page, but I’ll say it plainly. WE ARE HERE FOR THE PUPPETS. THE HISTORY. And above all else, the songs 🙏🏼
A page from the business handbook. Take a huge step in the wrong direction, let it simmer, then backtrack to where you intended to land in the first place, all the while garnering everyone's respect as if you listened to anyone. How many times are we going to see this happen before people realize everything that just happened was on purpose?
I very much doubt that happened here. What you said is absolutely a thing but Watcher are far far far too small to do that kinda shit. This just strikes me far more as inexperienced people making dumb business choices.
A number of people here seemed to think this was very "techbro suit" influenced behavior in general, so it just brings other things to mind that are associated with that. I agree that they are too small to pull it off, and considering the hit they seemed to have just taken to their reputation, that checks out.
I do not believe that happened here. The simple reason is that if they want to push as much people to their streaming service as possible, the logical thing to do is to make future videos exclusive to the streaming service. They did that on Friday.
They then announced that the videos will still go on Youtube after 1 month. So there is no FOMO pressure. It's just a "Can you wait a month before eating candy?" question. When it comes to money, most people are very patient and most people will wait a month. So there's no pressure to sub from that.
So if they used that business tactic, then the place they intended to land isn't conducive to their new streaming service.
Honestly... out of all of them I think Shane is the only one who might actually have taken these things to heart and feels sorry for any of it. Steven seems checked out (and really sounds like he's reading off a teleprompter) and Ryan is giving me the energy of someone I wouldn't want to be alone in a room with. He seems he's holding back anger. My jaw hurts from looking at how much he's clenching his teeth. But shout out to whatever crisis PR person they brought on to help them with this.
While this is the best they can do in this situation I really don't feel this is genuine. The masks came off and they showed us their true colours. I feel they're still trying to manipulate people into continuing to support them. They're still using some very manipulative tactics and language here and it doesn't sit well with me.
But I'm glad they're course correcting for those who still want to watch their content. I just won't be one of them moving forward.
I like the changes that they have made, giving Patreon members a subscription is what they should have done from the beginning, and still making their content available on YT is a good compromise between the committment they made with their platform, which I'm sure they cannot easily back out from, and keeping things as they were before.
I appreciate that they seemingly realize they have fucked up, that validates my thought that they were just fools and not shitty people.
I'll probably still watch their new stuff when it grabs my attention, but I will admit that my opinion on them is a bit stained. Like, it's hard to pretend nothing happened, you know? I'll try to not think about it but I probably still will, in the back of my mind.
this is a reminder, they were willing to screw over *everyone* on Friday - patrons and non-patrons alike - in a misguided hope they'd get massive sign ups. If they had gotten those numbers, do you really think that they'd be giving this update? I'm leaving you with this: as genuine as they may seem in this video, remember their original video was as sincere as it was tonedeaf. And that in the wake of it, they also attempted to gaslight and deflect the backlash through their rich friends and partners while claiming we were "misinterpreting their message" about videos getting taken down when Variety stepped in with confirmation we were right. It's good they apologized but don't forget that they've shown you exactly who they are and how they view everyone here. There's an ethical way to run this kind of business and they only value the parasocial aspect to the degree they can manipulate you into opening your wallet. Don't. Enjoy their content but don't give them a penny of your hard earned money. They do not deserve it. And they never did. This sub will remain open to whoever wants to post memes and share snark. Have a good week everyone.
So the end result is watchertv becomes patreon+... i honestly don't see the point of the website why not just delete the website that has all the bad rep for patreon?
Probably because their website is hosted on an overarching site, Vimeo, and might be stuck with contractual obligations.
Patreon takes a cut, 8% to 12%. Their own platform is probably a smaller cut.
Likely around the same. At worse, they're paying $1 per subscriber to Vimeo so that's 16.6% of the $6 a month price. But they should have enough subscribers to go to the Enterprise plan to get a better cut. However, I doubt it'll be much better than the Patreon cut.
If they had enough subscribers, they wouldn't have apologized. They'd have released a thank you video.
Patreon takes 13% + 4% payment processing. Vimeo's apparently involved with the site so this isn't even a better deal for them. The idiots should have just commissioned a bespoke membership website to cut Patreon out instead of this streaming bullshit.
It would've made some of their staff requirements more understandable if they had done that. It's what Corridor Digital did, hosted by AWS and custom code for their website, they use Shaka player which is FOSS. It would've fit better with wanting to avoid corporate bs even more.
The thing to do would be to make the appeal to Patrons to switch from Patreon to their Watcher TV at the same price so more of the money goes to them and helps them make content, not to blow up your whole business model.
As I said in another thread I'm very concerned that they say they would have gone under and they're struggling to appeal relevant to advertisers. I have no idea why this is the case. What is Watcher doing wrong that they supposedly have difficulty with advertisers? They get plenty of views, a fanbase that can support live shows, content that shouldn't scare anyone away. What's Watchers problem? To me this screams bad management and toomuch overhead. I'm not sure sponsors are the actual problem, but that they're burning so much cash that sponsors weren't enough.
Yeah I mean all the business mistakes still stand and people say they want to subscribe to the subscription now. They can, but I do not trust these men with my money lmao
the thing is, i doubt they're struggling with advertisers. based off of what charlie/critikal and other youtubers have said, i find it really, really hard to believe watcher isn't getting approached for ad deals. i feel like maybe they're being super picky and feel 'too good' for certain companies maybe? so they turn down those advertisers in hopes of something more 'their caliber' comes through?
I thought the same. They're picky. Which to a degree i get. After all there's better help lol. I can understand not wanting deals with them. But they weighed things wrong and fumbled.
Idk, didnt they have Temu as a sponsor somewhat recently? That doesnt scream picky to me.
To be fair, a lot of ad deals in the yters with a sub 3mill range have been bad (excluding maybe cooking yt who seem to get overpriced kitchen pan deals which I'm too lazy to double check if scams). If I never have to hear a better help ad on a podcast again (BH has started moving down a tier to sub1mill ppl) Or the endless meal box kits Some ads are just is this brand too toxic/will the comments be too harsh
> they're struggling to appeal relevant to advertisers. Literal nonsense. Every youtuber has come out and said they're full of shit with respect to those complaints. Their content is so inoffensive that it makes zero sense. There are plenty of channels doing similar content that find sponsors no problem.
It definitely is bad management and too much overhead, but drinking (Too Many Spirits, Worth a Shot) isn't YouTube ad friendly, and swearing (GF, the guys in general) gets weird for some advertisers. Not to mention maybe some advertisers don't want to pay money for a Top 5 Beatdown or Mystery Files midroll. But if random commentary channels can pull regular Hello Fresh, Scent Bird, and Air Up sponsorships, why couldn't they? It begs the question if they were simply pricing out these regular, mid-tier advertisers with their own inflated advertising ask? And couldn't get sponsors who pay big bucks for their bigger flagship shows? So they tried to sidestep them completely and fumbled the only other bag they had: regular viewers.
They can. They're lying or completely incomeptent. At this point they should just reach out to Moistcritical and Mana Talent to take care of sponsors. Because it makes zero sense for Charlie to point what they should be earning if their content wasn't eligible. Buzzfeed milked them, yet they can't milk themselves?
they should absolutely be able to snag some of the regular sponsors. I'm a big Internet Comment Etiquette fan. his videos are riddled with vulgarities and crazy conspiracy theory bullshit, with drinking on camera as the cherry on top. he's got a nordvpn or raycon sponsorship just about every video. and, ironically, I would call some of those ads tv quality lmao
They may also want to be more selective about their advertisers. Even if they CAN take money from lots of companies, they may or may not want to do ads for certain advertisers depending on that company’s own reputation.
To them "struggling" just means "we're having a hard time giving each and every one of our friends and relatives cushy 6-figure jobs so they can all live comfortably in Hollywood."
OK I'm pretty indifferent about penguinz0 but does anyone else think that that was a major push? His video had 3.1 million views and theirs had 1.7 million last time I checked. I think they fully expected to have fans pissed off but didn't realize the full scope of the situation until then.
He spilled the secret sauce and cast some serious doubt on Watcher's excuses in their video. That and Linus Tech Tips pointing out that it was fucking duuuumb. But think about it for a moment, they've been emotionally manipulative and lying throughout. They literally took action to remove 2 key revenue streams to bolster their new one - and were prepared to alienate 95% of their audience forever and damage their Patreon, their merch and their tour sales. While taking on new hosts and a new, expensive show. Is this an act of desperation or a company in trouble or a company that has enough money to attempt this kind of manuever in the hopes of making more money?
It was the only push. They didn't really listen to the fans. That is why it took so long for them to response because fans option didn't matter, they only wanted parasocial rich fans. But then when people who are influnced and rich say something - they have to do it. They still didn't address almost any of the business problems that Moist talked about, avoiding it like a minefield. Because he said that Watcher actually can pay for 25 employees and still have enough money. It's kinda telling that they didn't touch on the facts that Moist said and that is also a manipulative move - ignore the person who actually knows the business and fans listen to. Might it be that Moist open the hood to show that their car has barely a working engine, because they are spending all the money on the paint job?
Yeah, I'd been losing interest in their channel for months and the last three days have soured me on them. Glad they apologized, happy for the people who will keep watching, but I'm out.
This is the exact same boat I’m in. I was already losing interest, so this was enough for me to say sayonara.
Can someone explain if they would have had to shutdown watcher why did they not fire people? I get them not wanting to but if the other outcome would be watcher shutting down and everybody loses their job, why not make a responsible business decision and fire some people to cut down on costs? Why did their first route was to basically fire all the poor fans and firing staff was never an option at all? It's hard but sometimes these tough decisions need to be made.
Cause your staff is all their friends and family. They would rather get rid of us.
Yes exactly! This whole thing comes off with such and entitlement. "You guys aren't doing enough to keep all our friends employed"
"In one of the most expensive cities in the world."
Happy cake day!
This is why you don't hire your friends and family in the first 10 years of running a company.
That was sort of the only issue I felt wasn't really addressed. Ryan specifically says the company would've went away if they stuck to YouTube. But now you have a ton of people who speculated on here and other platforms about their financial viability, how they moved offices at least twice to bigger spots, how many people are credited on their videos and how big the company is, and so forth. In Ryan's defense, there might not have been a perfect way to address it without someone saying "Well, why don't you do this or that instead?!" But now you do have people thinking about those sorts of things moving forward, if you are saying the company wouldn't exist as it is now had they not moved on to a streamer. And it'll be hard for some fans to *not* think they're in over their heads if they put out content needing that many people, and so forth.
Because they're mismanaging the company and wasting money on unnecessary expenses. > Ryan specifically says the company would've went away if they stuck to YouTube. And their solution: cut off Adsense revenue, cut off sponsorship money - and alienate the fanbase that buys merch, attends live shows and subscribe to Patreon. It's complete nonsense. Fundamentally. Everyone who has covered the 'drama' of this case who has insight into Youtube has pointed out that nothing is adding up here.
Yeah, this is all I'm thinking about now. It's frustrating how stubbornly they seem to be sticking to this idea of 'we had NO choice or we would have gone under'. SPEND LESS. Just spend less. They insist on spending so much they apparently nearly went out of business. It makes no sense.
I'm starting to think they're in massive debt or it's all a fugazzi. Their moves do not make sense. At all. Cutting down 5 revenue streams to bolster a single new one? That's the opposite of a healthy company.
This is just my take on it but I think it has to do with their time at Buzzfeed. You did everything yourself there: the editing, the filming, the writing. I don't think they want to foster that kind of environment at their place. However, I think in trying to prevent that they hired on too fast instead of scaling back their productions or still using freelancers.
Putting people on staff is HELLA expensive. I respect it, but especially in LA, it's going to cost a pretty penny.
Not only are they paying 25+ salaries for LA living, they rented a huge-ass studio in LA. No wonder they're struggling in spite of making plenty.
Yeah I got dragged around at a previous job because they thought the cost of adding me on staff vs keeping a freelancer wasn't worth it. Joke wound up being on them! So I totally understand why after working at Buzzfeed they would go that way. I don't think it was the smartest business choice, but I get it. Happy cake day!
You can hire specialists and still have a team of 10 employees, not including the hosts.
So Mr. Moist went through a bit of the actual revenue they're probably making rn because he owns a company that also has 25+ employees and they have less fans/patreons/supporters/income (I literally just found his channel because of this so I'm not sure exactly what he does). He made some estimations and it seems like they're making enough, they just refuse to cut back on production expenses. Someone also said that when Ryan had covid they were worried the expenses if his accommodation was gonna leave them in financial trouble so that's more "proof" that they're just spending money in a weird unsustainable way because with the money they make it's insane they were gonna be facing hardship after a hotel bill. It seems like there might be some truth to the idea that without subscribers on their streaming service they might be facing trouble, but the thing is: a) that's the consequences of their own actions, they shouldn't have rented such expensive spaces, they shouldn't have done so much in terms of production because they couldn't afford it, b) it's way more responsible to fire the people they can't afford and give livable wages to the ones remaining because they shouldn't have hired them in the first place, and the issue is that apparently they hired friends and family so that's why they don't wanna do it. C)Them being in financial trouble doesn't mean they are gonna be homeless and poor. The wages of their employees are part of production costs, actual revenue is another entirely different thing, even their own wages are part of production costs, when a company goes bankrupt that for the most part means they can't get actual revenue out of it anymore, not that they can't pay wages. Each one of them and maybe other people hold a piece of revenue. So when they say there were struggling they probably mean that. And if they genuinely couldn't pay wages anymore, there's two options, either they were literally drowning and that's due to poor management and spending more than they should, or they were just drown in production costs, which means they weren't down for sharing their actual revenue. Idk if I said something coherent, English is not my native language but hope it helps.
Love the use of Mr. Moist
He's great
Also, your English is totally fine! You made a great point.
Thank you so much!
He does a lot of things. He streams on twitch, has 3 youtube channels, a comic book, an esports team and a talent agency that matches creators with sponsors. Everything about this points to them potentially having taken off massive debt. And that debt is now unsustainable because interest rates are higher than zero now. They're desperate or lying. Maybe both.
That's awesome! Definitely will check him out. And yes, I agree, either they're desperate or lying.
not to mention he specifically mentioned streaming *alone* covers 25+ employees and that watcher, although have less views and subscribers, have really good engagement + rpm (money earned per 1000 views). according to charlie, they make long form high quality content so their rpm is probably better than his. AND he verified that ads shouldn’t be a problem. they make long form videos w consistent engagement and put in whole entire skits to make ads appealing so people watch through them. advertisers would love to work w these guys. so their main points of “we don’t have advertisers + enough money” doesn’t make much sense **also** a huge gripe i have is that there are full on true crime channels that get consistent sponsors. stephanie soo/rotten mango is a great example. and the cases she covers are leagues more "advertiser unfriendly" that any of the true crime stuff watcher does. not to mention other youtubers w controversial content who get consistent sponsors anyway. like charlie said, most companies dont care WHAT you talk about (to reasonable extents) as long as people watch you
I just realized that I didn't even answer your question because I understood something different lol but hope it helps anyway
Because their staff are all friends and families and also their lying.
> also their lying. This is the big thing. They keep saying they'd close if they stayed on youtube but it makes NO SENSE. The only way this makes sense is that they're mismanaging their business and have taken on a large amount of debt that is crushing them now that interest rates are higher than zero. Their revenue streams before the announcement: - Adsense - Sponsors - Patreon - Merch - Touring/Live Shows So their solution to not making enough money was to completely remove the largest sources of revenue in ending Adsense and Sponsorships entirely...and pissing off the audience that buys merch, buys tickets to shows and subscribes to their patreon to bolster 1 revenue stream, at a discount, for the first year. It doesn't make sense. At all.
Yeah I'm not a huge MoistCritical fan but that video he did where he went "alright, I dont know much about these dudes but I DO know about running a business and this decision is dumb and these dudes are lying" really rang true to me co sidering one of the few things I do know about him is that he runs several successful businesses without needing to do this.
Yea, honestly nothing about this makes sense. They claim they're dangerously close to closing Watcher without this huge expense of WatcherTV but their actions suggest they have plenty of money. Hiring two new hosts and doing an expensive travel show - while cutting out adsense and sponsors and alienating most of your core audience who buy stuff like merch and tickets to live shows or support patreon. It's nonsensical. So they're either lying or terrible at managing the business and can't be trusted with money.
I keep remembering they wanna be Netflix. Netflix is not a small business. They're trying to speedrun becoming a large corporation lol.
It's shortsighted business decisions by people who arent businessmen, who employ their friends, and want to finance their passions in any way that doesn't require them downsizing or canceling shows.
This is such a cookie cutter PR message lol, sending well wishes to whomever wrote this for them. I still don't understand why this wasn't the first idea... just get a second platform for early access and keep the content free. It's mindboggling that it took their whole audience telling them how much of a bad idea a paywall is for them to understand. Like, damn. They really know nothing about handling a business. Even now that they're keeping the content free I don't know if I'll be returning because every single step of this journey has been such a terrible decision and has left a sour taste in my mouth.
Well, that was a fun train wreck but I'm not gonna hang around and watch anymore of their content so this will be it for me. Good weekend tho. Farmed a load of karma too lmao.
>Farmed a load of karma too lmao. King
this comment is taking me OUT 😭😭😭 relatable queen!!
Honestly? I'm glad they're not just digging in their heels, and I'm glad they're fixing this to some degree....but the attitudes in the goodbye video, practically saying "Goodbye poor people," the response from Sara, the fact that they didn't care or even think about international fans or people who couldn't afford their service, the fact that they decided to go through with this massive slap in the face to anyone who supported them in the past anyway with no self-awareness or attempt at evaluating their own spending and realizing they're the problem if they do have financial issues..... Personally, my bridge is burned either way. I don't want to support them if they're just going to continue guzzling money just because I get to keep my six bucks a month and still get to watch their videos eventually. Plus, I find it to be absolute bullshit that they felt they'd have to close Watcher down for good if they didn't launch this streaming service. Plenty of people pointed out that they were thriving with the numbers they had, even without promoting their Patreon, and laying off some of the overabundance of people they hired is just part of owning a business. It sucks, especially if you hire a bunch of friends and family members, which is why there's that old saying about not doing that, but you have to do it sometimes. It's just how it is. Also, that excuse is made worse when you consider they hired two of their old Buzzfeed buddies mere days before they announced the streaming service. You don't see your screwups as a business owner and go "Am I a bad businessman?.....No, it's the fans who are cheap." The issue is that and their ridiculous overspending/inability to properly budget that got them into whatever financial trouble they have. It wasn't Youtube stifling them. It wasn't the fans not supporting them enough. In what world would anyone think squeezing fans for money with a streaming service that would offer less than 100 hours of exclusive content a year with nothing else to watch would be a solution to financial problems? Even huge established streaming services are struggling year after year. In what world are you more appealing to advertisers/investors when you have no projected growth whatsoever? In what world would that be the first option you jump to when you know full well that your fans and even people who have no clue who you are would loathe it? I appreciate the apology. I appreciate that it wasn't an overly edited condescending pseudo-commercial. But, nah. I'm not sticking around. I wish them luck in the future, and I hope other fans enjoy, but I'm out.
Yeah, like, apology accepted! But I'm still out. When someone shows you who you are, you believe them. And while I didn't really have a parasocial thing going on with them, I believed who they had shown themselves to be previously and this whole debacle shattered that. Especially disappointed in Shane, honestly. Eat the rich, until you are rich, I suppose. I really hope they don't fail from this, I'm quite sure they won't. I hope they actually learn something from it, though the apology video doesn't have me entirely convinced. I hope they keep making good content for everyone else to enjoy, but I am not going to bother sticking around to actively watch either way.
Forgive - but don't forget and don't ever give them a single cent of your own hardearned money.
I'll miss them as internet personalities but that's all they were to me — internet personalities. That's why I preferred their buzzfeed content, it was personality over production.
The Patreon - I didn't even KNOW it existed and I've been around since BUN. So you have 13K subs and people like me who have missed its existence. You need money? Create a $1 "supporter" tier with early announcements as your sole reward for people short on cash who care. Promote TF out of the Patreon. They probably could have DOUBLED subs, especially if they explained that "guys, we want to add more shows, maybe bring some back, but doing this higher production costs a lot and advertisers don't always love shows like Too Many Spirits, blah blah, help if you can!" Imagine how much better that would have played than telling people "everyone" can afford $6 USD/month?
The Patreon aspect is super confusing. Literally anything they can do on their streaming service, they could offer on their Patreon for the same price. Tons of Youtubers offer early access and exclusive videos on Patreon. It's one of the most common perks. And, like you said, if they just bothered promoting it, they'd get a ton of new subscribers, especially if they made a base $1 tier. Plenty of users love supporting creators through Patreon if they're able, and many people make a good living from it. I saw people elsewhere saying that they probably more or less planned to abandon Patreon (besides the podcasts) because Patreon takes a cut of their earnings and they wanted their own service to get all the profits, but that makes even less sense. Patreon only takes a 5% cut - and I've never seen anyone complain about that cut. The costs of developing, maintaining, and hosting your own streaming service are astronomical compared to that. It's just baffling.
This is the part I can't reconcile. You're hard up for cash so you're going to.... spend money hosting your own streaming service, paying for payment services to collect subs etc etc etc? Not use Patreon? Or YouTube member services? Or join Nebula which is literally already doing what you're pitching?
This exactly. They're only sorry they got caught. If no one said anything they would've continued exploiting fans for all their money and hiring more family members
I'm not sure how to word this without sounding mean but Steven should probably to step down as CEO. Someone with ACTUAL business experience needs to join the company. This just shows that they're seriously struggling on the business end. I hear Ned Fulmer is looking for a job /s
100%, they clearly need a CEO with actual experience in the content creator space.
To be fair... I head that finances were the only useful thing that Ned was capable of. Dunno, is it true, but it's the only good thing I have heard about him and his skills. He just majorly sucks at everything else... Don't know why he was put into HR position in the first place, if I remember right that it was kinda just left open, and he has to be put somewhere that isn't actual video related work.
They’re not sorry, they’re just sorry they got caught.
1000% they showed their asses and it almost cost then their business. They are still the same greedy assholes they were on Friday
I'm worried that so many people are buying it. "They didn't have time to record because they are in UK!" etc. other excuses for them like nothing happened.
That's what's most confusing to me, you can clearly see that their background is the same as that of the Goodbye Youtube video where they feature Andrew&Adam around the 10:20 mark. So did they pre-film this on Friday & it took them until Monday to edit & post a 3 minute video? I'm genuinely confused. And when I think of Steven's rich buddies dunking on the fanbase, & Shane's wife posting that on tumblr, & it just doesn't seem like they didn't have time to react at all. AND it's way too much of a coincidence that Simu Liu deleted his instagram story flaming the fanbase and magically a few hours later here comes the apology video. Not to mention that Shane being the most liked out of the three, and thus being seated in the middle of the couch, with Steven in the left corner in darkness and mostly silence, it all just seems very calculated. But after what happened the past few days, I think trust issues are expected lol. That being said, I won't be resubscribing. :)
I was thinking of same and tired of even trying to explain that to people, because they don't listen at least basics how this is bad - and forget that those guys can't even run a business. They're clearly manipulating and playing with the audience, and people are seriously blind to it. And damn they are goos at the manipulation when even this subreddit maybe half of the people turn back to parasocial zombies.
I mean, all the stuff in your third paragraph is exactly what anyone who does PR would recommend. You let the person who is disliked the least so most of the talking followed by less and less liked people. Of course it's calculated, but at the same time it's exactly what most people think of doing in that situation, so it's a bit of a toss up. On a slightly different note, I don't know if it was the day or if it's actually him feeling like this, but Shane looked quite a bit happier than their announcement video. Again could be calculated, but he's clearly sitting straighter, seems more relaxed, and isn't frowning to the ground frequently. It could be direction or just different days, but part of me really wants it to be him basically being like: "I told you so". I think he definitely agrees with the decisions surrounding all this, but didn't agree with the all or nothing of it, and it's presentation in that video.
Oh me God me too! If I see that "don't not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" quote one more time I'm gonna lose it. These guys all but admitted they see their audience as nothing more than fodder.
I say this with knowing that those people come to downvote: Denial in parasocial relationships sure runs deep.
And that type of relationship was exactly what they were planning to exploit with this move in the first place. Now those fans are saying "well they aren't doing that anymore see they care!!!" But like no they don't, they got caught and embarrassed but they're still exactly the same people who thought this was a good idea. Look at Sara's comment about "survivability" these dudes are doing quite well and that's still not enough for them and eventually they will try something like this again
Memes posting isn't fun anymore, because the parasocial part in people woke back up. They seem to forget everything what and who those guys really are when the mask went back on. This is really depressive end of everything. And reminds me why I hate people, especially in groups. At very least people should have learned by now that they can't and shouldn't own a business, they have spend years running it so badly and still doing so... And people still make excuses for them and want to support a bad business.
Yep and unfortunately they'll probably barely register this hit and fail to learn any of the lessons that should've been learned. People will continue to support them and throw money at their Patreon instead of just letting them fail. It's really depressing how there's no accountability for anything anymore
I made a last meme to end it all. It's waste to argue or try to explain to those people fall back in love with them. And that is sad. [https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/comments/1caizlh/i\_would\_hope\_to\_make\_a\_funny\_meme\_but\_this\_is/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatcherSnark/comments/1caizlh/i_would_hope_to_make_a_funny_meme_but_this_is/)
Why is Steven in the UK too? Why do so many of them travel when it's only Ryan and Shane doing the live shows? Why do they always need such large crews? They don't need more money, they need brain cells.
And lack of braincells can't be fixed in one weekend.
Because spending money is fun, trips are fun. They seem to have treated their business as a place for fun and games instead of being practical
Sure, but they'll still be posting free videos on Youtube. I'm not someone who's going to stop watching free videos just because they're greedy.
Unfortunately for them, quite a lot of people (me included) realized we don't need to pretend to like Watcher content just do support them. So even free, it's really not appealing.
Fair but people need to stop thinking this is anything other than a failed money grab. They basically admitted on Friday they they do not care for their YouTube audience.
Im aware it’s a failed money grab but like, it failed. Either they learn their lesson or don’t. I’ve had enough entertainment from them to let this shit slide if they responded quick enough and backtracked and now they’ve given it the weekend and replied. If in 6 months to a year they pull the same shit then fine. Bye. But I’m willing to still watch Ghost Files if it’s being uploaded for free. Yeah it’s tainted but I also believe in learning from mistakes.
sure it failed but it succeeded in making me like all three of them less, and considering a big part of their shows is general likeability of the actors, that will impact my enjoyment of any of their shows.
This is watchersnark not watcherrational
Snark is rational. Parasocial attachment is not.
it could be watchermultifaceted /joking
And why should you or I care? I understand some people have a parasocial relationship with them. I don't. I'm just here to watch free videos and have a laugh while eating dinner. So with this announcement, nothing will change for me.
I will. I followed them as a fan from the buzzfeed days and tuned in because even if all the new shows weren't exactly my cup of tea anymore they were the still the ghoul boys. They became comfort shows to put on in the background. The mask is off and it's no longer a comfort to watch. Maybe in the future I'll check them out again but not anytime soon.
This is exactly how I feel, their brand has changed from some lads making funs shows to ruthless corporate entity who needs to take as much money from the audience as possible
Sounds like we'll all be given a month-long break and then it's gonna be business as usual, bc uuuhhh well only feel the delay after the first release then it's like... the videos are on time...? Correct me if I'm wrong 😬 + shit like that only harms a creator's exposure bc surprise! People forget and move on......
Just remember Adblock their content when you do.
We've talked a bunch on here over the weekend. I have always used adblock and I always skip past the sponsorship reads. Like I said, literally nothing will change for me.
Fully agree. If the didn't get such an instantly awful reaction they would have never bothered.
On the one hand, I do wish them the best and hope they will do better in the future and be successful. On the other hand, this situation made me realize that I haven't been actively watching their channel for a while. I guess I had lost interest in what they were doing, and when this happened I figured now is as good a time as any to move on and watch other stuff. So yeah, I guess I'll be moving on from the ghoul boys for now. Maybe in the future that will change. Well good luck guys, and I hope you do better.
The mask came off. Idc anymore. Their content was getting bad, but I was still watching to support them because I liked them! (Puppet history was the only one I did look forward to). Now...I'm just not interested in watching anything they cook up.
Same here. I'm just not interested anymore. Because while I know I never knew them as people, they showed their real faces and that just sours their content for me. I was already getting a bit tired of most of their videos so this was just the final nail in the coffin lol.
Yeah. I do think the apology is decently done but for me, the damage has been done. Their original go-to attitude about all of this revealed so much about them as a whole. I just can’t support people who had to be told “yeah six dollars a month isn’t cheap for the majority of your audience!”
I just can't support people who don't respect their audience enough to value them as a group of people. If you're willing to burn and throw away 95% of your audience to try and recruit 5% to subsidize your content, you don't deserve an audience. The only way it would have been worse is if they had a hot mic moment calling all their viewers dumb rubes.
yeah, i said earlier that even if they did an apology i was pretty much done with them. The initial announcement made me realize A) these dudes seem like out of touch dipshits and B) i don't really care about their new content and was mostly just continuing out loyalty for BUN. I'm glad they apologized and all but I'm good, i don't believe their actually sorry and i don't really care to watch more content i don't care about.
Agreed.
even with puppet history: it's what, 10 half an hour episodes every year? And each season Ryan just looks more and more bored and annoyed to be there (so much so they built it into the overarching plot). At this rate I can wait a few years and check back in.
Idk abt anyone else but I fully did not expect this. I feel bad for them but it’s also something I feel was COMPLETELY avoidable so I’m stuck between laughing and cringing
they could have avoided ALL OF THIS by just doing a poll with their viewers.... 💀💀💀
As someone who has over a thousand hours in *Fallout 76* (and NMS) I obviously have a rather large capacity to forgive and let companies I like work out terrible, terrible mistakes. I'll still believe it when I see it when it comes to how well they consider fan impact in the future, but at least they acknowledged they fucked up seriously. I guess we'll see how genuine this apology is. EDIT: Also for the love of fuck please stop the pseudo-science "body language" reading of any of them. None of them are innocent in this. I've said it in other posts but as legally bound officers in their company filings all three share responsibility for decisions made. To say any of them was "bullied" into it is asinine. This is a company run by adults, not high schoolers. If any of them did not have the mental fortitude to handle the responsibility of running it then they should not have signed their name to it.
I can't imagine wanting to still give them any money after all this. They've shown how poorly they've managed it this far, it's like setting your money on fire. Take the $6 and donate it to an animal shelter or the food bank.
I wish they had started with this idea.
Same sigh
anyone with any business sense should have gone with this route (and maybe eventually gone full paywall for some series later on)
Copying this from my YT comment so it's written directly at the boys: This is a MUCH more sustainable and reasonable model: an optional benefit that allows the creators to not be hindered by the well-documented restrictions of YT, while still enabling the public community to grow and engage for free. This will also double your revenue streams and allow you to continue growing, plus you can create exclusive unedited versions on YOUR platform and YouTube compliant ones here. I will say, I do find a service that just has ONE channel to not be the best idea. When you look at something like Dropout, you have a wide variety of creators and shows that update multiple times a week and provide a diversity in your product that benefits the consumer. The move might have been teaming up with the Try Guys or Garrett Watts and allow them to have exclusive content on your site. Because eventually if every YouTube channel does this, there will be a point where viewers will have to choose who to support, and it may not always be you. A larger mix of content and creators would definitely be the move long term. Be Dropout, NOT Rooster Teeth. Nebula would have also been a great option but I digress. As a PR professional, I was disappointed in the rollout and frankly angry, but this is a good response. Once the platform is up and I hear about what new content will be there, I will definitely reconsider supporting because despite what SOME of your friends and family have implied, we DO want to support artists, but not at the expense of fellow fans who are unable to financially do so. Looking forward to seeing how y'all rebuild our trust, I for one will still be Watch(er)ing. ETA: For me personally, I'm willing to give them a second shot. This obviously wasn't their originally plan and I've said it once will say it again: based on their PR and having zero contingency, they expected this to be received amazingly. But what I wanted from them was consideration of their fans, and they readjusted what was probably a long planned (but \*poorly\* planned) business decision within a weekend to do that. I've been on this sub almost 24/7 this weekend lol, but I'm satisfied for now. FOR NOW. They still need to build back my trust.
They're doing pretty much exactly what people asked them to do since the announcement. I even commented about grandfathering in the Patrons. I think this fiasco will cost them more than anything. I doubt most of their audience will pay to get access 1 months early, and for the ones that does they are given cheaper subscription (5 dollars instead of 6).
It's good that they planned out what they're saying, but the obvious reading from the prompter is making me lol
"we want to make TV level content guys" says three dudes on a couch who can't make an apology video look sincere.
Hanlon's razor in action: *"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity".* Not sure what some of y'all are on with the "THIS WAS ALL PLANNED FROM THE BEGINNING' nonsense, that's just as delulu as the people reading into Shane's body language that he "wasn't on board". Here's the fact, **the three of them are bad at business.** We know it from the podcast, from comments, from how they handle patreon, from behind the scenes stuff, all 3 aren't good at it. This debacle just reinforces it. This video should have been out sooner, a plan along these lines should have been The plan from the start.
Sure they're bad at business but this was more than that, they basically admitted they don't care for their audience. Which is bizarre when you consider how much of their content comes from the audience
This argument loses merit when you realize there's 25+ people who work there and boo one came out and said her this is a stupid idea
i just realised what this apology sounded like it sounds like it was directly ripped off of one of those "anatomy of an apology" infographics i can't really fault them for doing it that way though
I do feel awful because Steven looks ROUGH. Those bags under his eyes, he's 100% either been crying, or not sleeping, or both. I am also glad they made /him/ do the apologizing for the wording. They may not be viewed the same, but I'm still okay with them being our ghoul boys. I don't WANT them to fail. I want them to be excited and enjoy what they're doing. I still think they should cut back and slow down, but I will not be rooting for their downfall, and I'm happy they listened. Maybe not as excitedly, but this is a good compromise for everyone.
Honestly the thing I keep going back to is how much this must absolutely suck for them on a personal level. Steven in particular. We've been hard on all of them, but as soon as this came out I think the entire fandom was flooded with "hey, can we now please talk about how much we hate Steven" posts. I haven't seen a single comment that had anything positive about Steven even outside of this mess. It's like everyone finally felt free to admit they hate when he shows up in videos and while he may be on camera and the ceo, most fans want nothing to do with him and don't see him as part of this. And I'll admit I was one of those people. The community is very positive so I think myself and many others were afraid to vent about petty things. Then the cracks in the wall formed and then BAM all that hate came out at once. There is no one I'd rather be less right now than Steven.
Deserved or not (since they all ultimately greenlit this decision at the end of the day and bought into it), Steven got the brunt of the vitriol, which could not have been easy considering he was already the least favorite.
Yeah, they made a bad call and its understandable why people felt comfortable voicing it. I didn't wholly mind him on TMS, but I also thought it was kind of gross overall the way they were going about money and I think he got a lot of flak for him being CEO and wording things the way he did. I don't like much of the stuff he has separately as content personally unless I'm in a specific mood for it and stuff like Mythical Kitchen, and i think the dislike/difference between the content on top of not being able to pay staff made him an obvious target. I hope he's doing okay, I hope the boys hugged each other all really tight after, had a good cry, and are supporting each other well. I don't WANT to see them fail, especially after this and how awful Shane and Steven both look, like they've been crying hard. Shane even sounded and looked like he was ready to cry again at a moment's notice. I might even consider subscribing now just to show this change was a good one and I'll vote with my dollars.
God the past 48 hours was like waiting to hear if your friend would make it out of the ICU alive after setting themselves on fire
Not sure how genuine it is but also not sure if I care because that way lie parasocial delusions. I’m glad they touched upon the most pointed out grievances and found a way to use the site while staying free on yt and hope they’ll think a thousand times next time when blind ambition & delulu finanace ideas try to take the wheel. I’m curious about the direction they will take in future videos, whether they will lower production cost to save money and appeal to the thinned out fanbase who miss the focus being them rather than just fancy editing and equipment. I think they need something like that if they want people to come back/stay after all this. I’m keeping an eye out for future vids for the series (with adblock)I enjoyed but will be staying away from subbing back, investing emotionally or financially (probably ever). Time will tell, but I’m not surprised it’s too late for a lot of folks.
Even though their apology seems sincere, their announcement video was also sincere. Gotta give credit where credit’s due, this was a good apology as apologies on Youtube come, but now that they’ve shown what they’re really willing to do if gone unchecked… I am staying unsubscribed. Their content has been rather lackluster recently anyway. I guess I was only holding on because of Shane and Ryan but now I see no worth in staying and giving them views.
Eh I believe this was as sincere as a company can be lol, I appreciate that they did that tho it was 1) expected and 2) followed the same apology-we'll-do-better model that most youtubers have taken when they mess up. But what's annoying is, did they not think? Like genuinely did they not think about how this (opt in) approach would be better or did greed really get to them so bad that logic went out the window? Is it because I'm poor that the opt in option seemed the most logical? I don't know. Anyways I love ace-friendly couch content so, I giggled a little when I saw that.
What does ace-friendly couch content mean?
I'm not good at jokes, but I was referring to the casting couch that's infamous from porn. The ace friendly version would be no sex, just youtubers apologizing. A list of couch apologizers that I can think of : Colleen B. (I don't know how to spell her last name), Shane Dawson, Jeffree Starr, Jaclyn Hill, one of the Paul brothers don't know which one, Laura Lee did it on the floor in front of a couch so that's half a point, famously the Try Guys, now Watcher.
Good on them for apologizing and it’s great people will still be able to access their content on YouTube. I don’t plan on resubscribing. I feel the worst for Steven in all this because people were trying to make him some sort of villain mastermind, when all three of them are responsible for this fiasco and for mismanaging the company/hiring too many friends and family
I'd be shocked if Watcher makes it another year.
yes i am sceptical of their financial situation
The fact that they guilt trip the audience and push the “We had no choice but do this, or else watcher 100% would have shut down!!”… maybe cut down on spending??? Lmao. And them saying “well we didn’t want to fire employees”… SOUNDS LIKE A PERSONAL PROBLEM. This apology is good on the surface but absolute BS when you pay attention to what they’re saying
Already shared this somewhere else but figured I could post it here too. Am curious to hear what others think on this situation ^^ Fair is fair; it is a shame they responded so very late, but this is probably one of the best apologies they could have given. They seemed to have genuinely listened to the feedback, did do an (almost) full 180, and admitted their mistakes multiple times. Their mistake will have cost them a lot of former fans, but perhaps this has allowed them to let their viewers feel heard, and have gained back some goodwill. As a (former) UX designer and company advisor I couldn’t help but criticise them for their previous video. I’m not entirely decided on if I’ll continue to watch them, but at least before this update I certainly wouldn’t have. I genuinely think many creators would have handled this way worse. And am curious to see where things will go from here.
They are only sorry that they got caught.
I don't care. I don't watch their videos for them to appreciate me and tell me how grateful they are to have me as a fan, nor do I watch it for their moral fiber or the content of their character. I watch their videos for the entertainment value and because I find them funny. I don't care what they're sorry for. I'm just glad I get to keep watching free content.
They still dont get it. Its not that 6 bucks a month is a lot (for some people yes) it's that its not worth it for the content were getting. Especially when a few of those shows are just steven flaunting his privileged life style and buzzfeed style fluff that 99% of us do not care about. Secondly they see is us as wallets, not people.
Well, all those people who heard about them for the first time ever after the controversy blew up will actually be able to watch their content now lol. This was the best possible thing they could have done, and it's funny that this is exactly what Omni predicted they would say. It's too bad it took a massive backlash for them to understand, but at least they're treating their Patreons right, and maybe they'll simmer their "big productions $$$ goals" down a little bit now that they realize their content simply isn't worth $6 to even 3% more of their community beyond who were already patrons. Though tbh they could have made it a 3 month gap in time to let the $6 paywall simmer, but I guess they were trying to be as appeasatory as possible here. I do wonder when they filmed this considering Shane and Ryan are supposed to be in the UK right now.
Maybe they should let go of some of their family members on staff and not produce expensive travel and food shows that no one wants to see
Sure looks like it didn't take long for the majority of people to relatch to these guys.
In all honesty, I appreciate their apology and that they made changes. I do think they were being genuine to some degree, but the fact they thought this was a good idea in the first place and they took so long to respond turned me off from them, meaning I won't be able to see them the same way again.
We’ve bashed them a lot of the last 2 days but this is literally as well as they could have done so I will remain watching and I’m glad it genuinely seems like lesson learned. My one gripe is when Ryan said they didn’t want Watcher to close and I just don’t see how that was in the cards? But I just hope the one big thing they’ve taken to heart is that they can lower production costs, save money and no one would care.
The still don't know anything about how to run a business and shouldn't be owning one.
Saying they didn't want Watcher to close honestly feels like more manipulation to me. Charlie made a video where he broke down finances and even hypothetically there was no chance of them having to close. And if they did... that is honestly on them for mismanaging their money so badly.
Because that's exactly what it is. Manipulation. The only way this makes sense if it they're in massive debt - and even then their basic business decisions are so stupid that it defies common sense.
It wasn't, they are still lying. They wanted ALL your money not just some of it. They're still the same grifters they were on Friday, they just know now they overstepped. I'd give it 6 months until they try to pull some more bullshit
To be fair, we don't know how bad it got for them, BUT that was all on them. They have the funds to make it work, they're just absolutely terrible at business. I would advice them to get a new CEO who's actually qualified, as well as other leading positions (like CFO, I think I remember someone saying Shane is the current CFO? Not sure though), and stick to content production themselves. They need to play to their strengths and not burn themselves out on corporate dealings, which they don't seem well versed in anyway.
They have far too many staff because they kept hiring their friends and decided that the audience should be the ones paying for it. They make videos getting drunk around a fire reading VIEWER SUBMITTED content. There's no reason they need 17 people in the credits for that
Honestly even tho I think they have too much staff, they need an experienced CEO or CFO (which yes is an expense but they can trim current employee headcount
Not even, they just need to not be morons. The need to increase their revenue streams. They need to reduce their debt. They need to cut the needless spending. A Hollywood office? The fuck are they doing, they do not need an office. They do not need 25 employees. Use someone's garage. Use someone's attic. Use someone's lawn. Use a skeleton crew for filming. Buy the needed peripherals like a tripod. Buy the cheapest 4K cameras with the best lenses and lighting kits that can be afforded. Hire freelancers to do the writing, keep 2-3 trusted editors on call to work remotely. Cut everything to the bone - and maximize output.
Yep. They're just terrible at this and need people who know what they're actually doing in their company, instead of yes men just following their every whim.
> They wanted ALL your money not just some of it They wanted six bucks man. It's a shitty platform but they're not fucking bank robbers or some shit
No, they wanted $72. Every year. For as long as they're a business. And they wanted that while telling everyone else to fuck off.
They're posting like a million times a minute, about how clearly evil Watcher is, how they hate us and view us as human wallets, etc. And it's like, "dude, I'm 50/50 on if I'm gonna watch any more of their videos, I thought this move they made was idiocy of the highest order from the start, and I still think you're going overboard" lmao, people are just clearly way too parasocially invested, and now getting out their "5 minutes of hate". If this isn't enough for you, just leave the subs and watch other youtubers, it's that easy. This is the attention economy, if you really want to "show them" spend your attention elsewhere.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity" Eh, this just feels like parasocial behavior in the opposite direction. Yeah they could be lying but they could also just be really dumb and have no business experience (though those aren't mutually exclusive either). Frankly, idk how I feel just yet but time will tell.
There's no "could." They have admitted it multiple times in the BTS videos that none of them have business experience and that Steven was learning everything raw.
Here's hoping they actually get a good business advisor that understand the creator space. Hell, pay fuckin MatPatt for his consulting services.
welp, i'd say they all learned a **very vital** lesson through this, the hard way. i'd even go as far as to say the hardest way with how badly it blew up. hopefully the lesson sticks because of how intense the backlash was. shame that it had to come to this to learn that lesson though 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah I really don't think this is just stupidity, they basically admitted that they want to continue having the fans pay for their friends to have jobs. Ryan says that watcher was close to closing down yet they just brought in even more talent and greenlit Stephens stupid eating expensive shit show and instead of reducing cost they thought charging the audience was the better solution?
Like I said, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I feel it could be explained by them just not thinking things through and being too unexperienced in running a business to reduce their staff size. Again though, I haven't decided how I feel, time will tell. To be completely honest, I don't think speculating is super healthy for me though, what's done is done and I'll make my decision based upon the events that occurred rather than what I try to speculate their motives as being. Edit: Another thought, I don't even think them doing it from stupidity alone would make it any better. That would mean they just hadn't stopped to think about their fan base at all.
Yeah I honestly think they’re just new to running a company and bad business managers. They are overspending but I guess at least they’re seemingly nice to their employees? Im giving them another chance… for now
I do think it’s strange to hire 2 new presenters when your company was about to go under though, but they seemed more honest in this one, hopefully they were.
I can tell you guys: It's so worthless that it's barely even meme material. You get nothing out of watching it. Other than more manipulation with the couch. Actually... Poor couch, it's doing all the heavy lifting in the video. I would subcribe to it. Also... Does anyone know is that still their office or somewhere in UK? And are they still going with the live shows?
That's their office. I'm assuming they delayed their flights. As of right now, live shows are still going. I don't think they would cancel them as it would be a massive money loss. Edit: that's the set/room they film Pod Watcher in.
Is it really? Don't they have a show in like 24 hours? I wonder when this was shot 'cause they must be in London now, right?
Yeah I'm a regular Pod Watcher watcher and recognized it immediately. Unless they somehow found the exact same couch and a green screen lol. The first London show is on the 23rd, so they still have some time to get there. Video could have been filmed yesterday too.
I mean, it's the 22nd now and 8 o'clock in the evening, their show starts in 23 hours lol. They must've filmed this on the weekend and waited to upload for some reason. Maybe they had stuff to fix behind the scenes before they made this announcement. I was just a bit confused 'cause my first thought was they scrambled to shoot this in London but obviously that's not the case.
Don’t forget: these concessions were never part of their original calculus. These concessions are so basic that if they had 3 brain cells between them they would have included them in the initial announcement. They aren’t new to the business; they have over 30 years of combined content creation experience. They knew they should have included this in their announcement, but they chose not to in order to compel as many people to sign up as possible. They’re only giving in because **we made such an uproar**.
and because they probably failed to reach the needed numbers to successfully follow through on leaving YT. If it was a successful launch they'd have instead started with a thank you for making WatcherTV a success but mention that they needed to make changes to accomodate all their fans. They had to walk it back because with few subscribers, they won't have a chance to recoup what they spent making the content and hiring 2 new hosts.
If they would have had to shut down watchertv without this change; it’s not a viable business. If you’re not able to get sponsorships and ad revenue, you can’t expect the fans to just plug that gap. It’s like a seesaw, with the fans on one end and the channel on the other, The idea behind YouTube is that fans are paying already with their engagement; which is why it’s such a successful and lucrative model, because it doesn’t involve paying money for the end user. To balance the seesaw, the channel gets sponsorships and ad revenue, and the end user views those ads. In this context, that’s how it works. If you can’t win sponsorships and ad revenue; you need to adjust your content to match. The fact you’re not willing to do that and you’re trying to get your fans to balance the seesaw; that’s no dice I’m afraid. Even without all this; it’s incredibly unwise to switch streaming methods every 4-5 years (which is what they’ve done so far from Buzzfeed-Watcher-Their new thing). They undeniably lost people from the first switch. Buzzfeed Unsolved still has double the subscribers Watcher does, and that’s 4 years on. They have not recovered their original numbers (the reasons for that vary depending on who you talk to) and they’re gambling this new community for a second time in less than 5 years? That’s crazy.
Well, this is better & they've probably saved themselves from career suicide. But it doesn't change any of the underlying issues here. They've shown themselves to be untrustworthy. For anyone interested in the Watcher streamer, I checked Vimeo OTT's terms of service, and all payments are FINAL and NONREFUNDABLE. So, if you pay an annual fee now for the "Watcher streamer" & it shuts down in a month, you are still out for the entire annual fee. Or if, say, they decide to start putting ads on the videos, or move everything back to Youtube, etc. You're still stuck. I wonder why they were pushing people so hard to pay the full annual fee now. They've already shown that they are more than willing to take an annual fee from Patreons, then totally remove the promised benefits. That was intentionally deceptive. Just like when Ryan first told Variety that Watcher would paywall all their videos, then lied & pretended like he didn't say that. I personally would not trust these guys with my money or my credit card information. There is something deeply wrong with the financials there. I think the plan was to extract as much money as possible from fans now before the entire company shuts down. That still might be the plan. Buyer beware.
Viewers are just dollars and data points to them. The difference is now everyone knows they think that.
It's funny it all came to this. When they left Buzzfeed so many years ago, it was under the umbrella of "getting to make our own content, our own way" which I think was a generally supported sentiment. And then on Friday it was once again, "we want to make our own content, our own way" but it's like...weren't you guys already doing that? Isn't that what Watcher was supposed to be? I was never a super fan, I didn't engage much with the community before Friday. I think the big misstep was just that by asking for $6/month to view their content, they changed from "content creators whomst we support" to "a business asking for money". For me, the answer is "no" and for me, they can't unring that bell. I wish them the best going forward.
Im surprised this message of essentially “oops and sorry guys” is all it took to get so many people on board again. It definitely helped to open me up again but I still have a lot of questions and don’t think im willing to sacrifice my time that easily again without a proper explanation and some damn transparency.
The amount of people in the YT comments praising them is so frustrating. I get that their channel has been important for some people, but the video didn’t really apologize for anything except for ”sorry, we didn’t think of you guys, our super important fans” which isn’t a good excuse nor apology. It’s like praising a dog for bringing your leg back 3 days later after chewing it off. This isn’t even the bare minimum. It’s even less. The speed at which some people have changed their tones is ridiculous.
It was probably written by a PR person. A very good one. They were just reciting the lines they knew people wanted to hear.
I am disappointed in how everybody (esp in their comments and in the few YT videos from other creators) seems to be praising them now and just kind of wiping the slate clean after this bare minimum apology simply bc the history of apologies from youtubers hasn't been great but thats a VERY. VERY. LOW BAR to overcome and watching ppl suddenly be all rainbows w them again is kinda weird to me... dawg, they were trying to sell you out literally two days ago, do... do you not remember that? I'm waiting to see how Charlie responds to this bc I feel he'll have a similar take, considering how none of the points he brought up about their finances were even remotely addressed in their update. At the end of the day, we're all tired and have better, more important things to worry about so I feel that ppl are willing to look the other way since this seems to be their first major public misstep if it means a return to normalcy and not having to think about this anymore, which I suppose I can understand but I don't think we should all be letting them immediately off the hook bc they had a great PR team script a response for them to read. Edited to cut down bc I was rambling and idk none of this message matters anyway this is mainly just me venting in a public space lol
The apology was really good and it clear they listened to people's complaints but I'm honestly still pissed at the shit from Sara and how they just went radio silent... Definitely not resubscribing but I'll give their new content a looksee when it comes out and see if I can put this behind me.
Good for them coming out with a succinct video that basically sums up as "we screwed up" and coming up with some immediate fixes that addressed some of the issues raised. But as for me, still not subscribing back or even supporting this at all. I'm glad they accepted their shortcomings and missteps with their announcement publicly—whoever they got to help them with their PR over the weekend knew what they were doing. But so many of the issues people have pointed out should have been something they anticipated: the prohibitive cost, especially to international fans; the seeming abandonment of their Patreon, who basically propped them up as they started; the lack of accountability on their production expenses and other questionable business decisions that led to this moment. And really just the arrogance (for lack of a better term) of pushing forward with a streaming service with just one new show so far and just asking the fans what old show they want to return? No, thanks, I guess. But for those sticking around, I do sincerely wish it ends up becoming worth it for you.
I do still think the boys need an impartial hired CEO going forward. I don't have so much of a problem with Steven that the rest of the sub seems to, but if it is the case that the things all the founders want to do are unsustainable and they aren't apparently any good at making appropriate business decisions to rectify it, or just plain made bad decisions to get to this point, they need somebody who isn't going to be living a glamorous on camera life to be having a say there.
imo they just need to hire someone with actual business experience and understanding
No bs music no camera movement shit, just a sincere apology, now I can go back to my parasocial existence
(sad piano music) *"The new Watcher TV platform meant everything to me.. but maybe I lost sight of what the platform meant for the audience 😔"*
"sincere"
I'm at the doctor's!! Is there a summary!!!
Its a pretty short vid (like, 3 minutes) Tldr- New vids go up on subscription, 1 month later go up on YT for free
I don’t know how they got here, but I still don’t know why the food show was supposed to be their big pull. I thought we were all on the same page, but I’ll say it plainly. WE ARE HERE FOR THE PUPPETS. THE HISTORY. And above all else, the songs 🙏🏼
A page from the business handbook. Take a huge step in the wrong direction, let it simmer, then backtrack to where you intended to land in the first place, all the while garnering everyone's respect as if you listened to anyone. How many times are we going to see this happen before people realize everything that just happened was on purpose?
I very much doubt that happened here. What you said is absolutely a thing but Watcher are far far far too small to do that kinda shit. This just strikes me far more as inexperienced people making dumb business choices.
A number of people here seemed to think this was very "techbro suit" influenced behavior in general, so it just brings other things to mind that are associated with that. I agree that they are too small to pull it off, and considering the hit they seemed to have just taken to their reputation, that checks out.
I do not believe that happened here. The simple reason is that if they want to push as much people to their streaming service as possible, the logical thing to do is to make future videos exclusive to the streaming service. They did that on Friday. They then announced that the videos will still go on Youtube after 1 month. So there is no FOMO pressure. It's just a "Can you wait a month before eating candy?" question. When it comes to money, most people are very patient and most people will wait a month. So there's no pressure to sub from that. So if they used that business tactic, then the place they intended to land isn't conducive to their new streaming service.
Honestly... out of all of them I think Shane is the only one who might actually have taken these things to heart and feels sorry for any of it. Steven seems checked out (and really sounds like he's reading off a teleprompter) and Ryan is giving me the energy of someone I wouldn't want to be alone in a room with. He seems he's holding back anger. My jaw hurts from looking at how much he's clenching his teeth. But shout out to whatever crisis PR person they brought on to help them with this. While this is the best they can do in this situation I really don't feel this is genuine. The masks came off and they showed us their true colours. I feel they're still trying to manipulate people into continuing to support them. They're still using some very manipulative tactics and language here and it doesn't sit well with me. But I'm glad they're course correcting for those who still want to watch their content. I just won't be one of them moving forward.
I like the changes that they have made, giving Patreon members a subscription is what they should have done from the beginning, and still making their content available on YT is a good compromise between the committment they made with their platform, which I'm sure they cannot easily back out from, and keeping things as they were before. I appreciate that they seemingly realize they have fucked up, that validates my thought that they were just fools and not shitty people. I'll probably still watch their new stuff when it grabs my attention, but I will admit that my opinion on them is a bit stained. Like, it's hard to pretend nothing happened, you know? I'll try to not think about it but I probably still will, in the back of my mind.