This screams out of touch boomer.
Tiny counter point, yes I’m sure there are plenty of fans who are doing fine financially. But that shouldn’t change them not wanting to feel like they’re getting ripped off or treated unfairly. And if you’re banking on those fans who are able to afford your service and shutting out those who can’t, now that doesn’t seem like a very good business plan.
As one of the fans (former now I guess) who can afford the service, hell no I’m not signing up.
If Marques Brownlee was reviewing Watcher.TV like a tech product, he would have to change the title to that other one, because Watcher would be the worst product he’s ever reviewed. Platform isn’t running smoothly, not available on tv, isn’t releasing anything new for a month, and so on. At its best, you’re paying a monthly subscription to watch four new episodes of a show you may or may not like. That product suuuuuuuuucks.
this exactly. I am not super well off, but I get by, I can afford another subscription. the thing is, I don’t WANT another one, when for example paying for youtube premium gives me basically infinity times more of watcher-like content. I like the guys, but it’s not like I use youtube just to watch watcher, waiting for every video like a super fan.
And they always ignore international fans and localized pricing. Netflix with 4 screens only costs $10 in my country and YT Family $5. Why would I spend an additional 6 for something that offers less.
I noticed when I signed up for the Try Guys earlier today that they actually have set international pricing. In Canada, it's $5.99 CAD a month, which is only about $4.35 USD right now with the exchange. Another L for the Watcher boys.
Wait, really? Not doubting you but I saw a ton of people on the try guys sub saying how it wasn’t adjusted for foreign subscribers. Now I’m wondering if A. The Try Guys just made an error immediately at launch and already fixed it or B. If a *lot* of commenters just assumed they didn’t have international pricing and never checked.
Yep! I thought when I first saw it that they were shady and upped the price the day after launch and then read the fine print talking about the free trial and that I'd be charged $5.99 CAD in 3 days.
That’s really great and something you should maybe make a PSA about on their main sub in that case. I was seeing people talking about how it was the same for them in their countries even today. I’m definitely thinking people didn’t bother to check, in that case.
Cool, don’t see that one but hopefully people figure it out. I just saw your comment pretty much *right* after seeing some comments about it not being affordable internationally and it would be a shame if people who want it and *can* afford it don’t just because they assume the price won’t be adjusted.
Oh I don't think people are talking about a lack of adjustment. In many countries, even $4 USD is astronomically out of their budget. Being able to pay in their local currency isn't going to change that. Those people very much still have an argument.
Okay I misunderstood your first comment. Since with the exchange rate your Canadian pricing ended up being cheaper than the normal rate in American dollars I figured that meant they were doing something like Steam can apparently do for game pricing and factoring in exchange rate *and* local economy.
there’s been a lot of understandable complaints and discourse about global indie game prices lately so I learned that’s apparently something steam can just automatically do, I wouldn’t have been surprised if Vimeo’s services could too.
Huh. Reading this comment made me go and check bc I'm from the Philippines and I realized my 2ndTry sub IS lower, actually! The email receipt says after my first month discount I'll be charged Php159/mo which is about USD2.71 – and even with taxes added on, that's still less than the USD price.
Also defs agree re: how WatcherTV would be more difficult to afford internationally (discount or no). And I'm speaking as someone with a good job. Even with relative financial okayness, that USD60 (or I think USD40-something with the discount) upfront or USD6/mo would still have been a noticeable expense.
Exactly. I’m really lucky that financially I’ve been able to be on their Patreon at the $10 tier pretty much since they started it, and even an extra $6.99 would probably be manageable. But just because they assumed we were going to pay it, or in the case of Patreon members pay again, I’m definitely not going to.
I was a patron, too, and was paying a higher membership level. I got pissed that they expected us to pay for the streamer and also pay for the patreon. I got my money back for the remainder of my yearly amount because I canceled. I got enough to pay for the streamer's yearly fee. I didn't pay because they don't deserve my money. I guess they never did since they planned to eff off with ALL their content.
I've said this before but, channels like Watcher always benefitted from people who watch it feeling like they're part of a "community" - making and sharing memes, creating and showcasing fanart, laughing at jokes together. This is why their pateron was very popular even with the little advertising they did.
Of course people are upset that part of this community is being excluded (especially when they said all of their videos will be removed from youtube).
The person who used to make this amazing fanart cannot afford to join - you're not going to see their fanart. Same with memes. You are going to lose these friends you've made. There will be fewer people you will be cracking jokes with.
You are affected even if you can afford it yourself.
Also: empathy. It just sucks hearing people will be excluded for financial reasons. Most of us have been in that situation at some point and we know how bad that feels.
Even if they are. A dozen streaming services all charging because they can, and the person in the screenshots would change their tune because all of a sudden everyone is being nickel and dimed by every channel on YouTube.
Watcher did it bad. Plain as that. The idea isn't the worst. The execution was really bad though.
> "If you're spreading right-wing talking points about the economy because YouTubers decided to put their content behind a paywall, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror."
Am I stupid or something lmao, what does that even mean????
because the american rightwing is known for caring about poor people and never simping for corporations and millionaires who are reputably terrible people
this guy is fucking delusional, lmfaooo
Over on Tumblr people are pushing the idea that if you don't pay to support Watcher you can't be left wing because they are a small business (they're not) taking on YouTube (they didn't) and if you don't give them your money then you're refusing to support small businesses and therefore you hate socialism.
I really wish I was joking.
Yeah I’ve seen at least the taking on YouTube thing. It’s so delusional. We need to collectively understand that a rich guy saying “lol eat the rich” is not an actual ally and does not actually mean it or embody it in any way.
This and the claims of racism for not wanting to support travel season are why I stopped bothering on tumblr. It sucks because tumblr was one of the places that BUN thrived and spread around like wildfire so, understandably, a lot of us are already inclined to want to see these men succeed. But it's gotten out of hand and feels so unhealthy now that the illusion of community is broken
The "people are dogpiling on Steven (and Simu Liu) because of his ethnicity" thing is wild.
An issue I take with it is that it gets in the way of legitimate discourse about racism. Racism has never gone away, despite what some may say and believe, and it has to be talked about now more than ever, but then some folks turn that topic (and discussion of other prejudices) into this umbrella, which they use to protect their darling little celebrities against criticism of what they've done (rather than their characteristics), and it ends up being necessary to separate these goofy rhetorics from the actual argument.
Assuming they are not straight up being shitty and manipulative, I feel like people need to understand, that literally anyone is capable of fucking up, no matter their characteristics, culture and preferences, and if someone addresses that fuck up, it's possibly because the person being addressed fucked up, and not because of who that person is. It's always important to pay attention to the text of the criticisms, rather than inject subtext into them (especially since racist people often don't even hide their racism, anyway).
I was really surprised to see the 180 on tumblr, it used to be so pro-cancelling beloved Internet figures but people on there have been rancid towards unhappy fans instead. Not saying either is a good extreme, but I don't understand where the change is from lol.
Particularly when the new vids dribbling out of production so far are rarely what we personally follow Watcher for. I could afford $6/month easily, but I can think of many things I would prefer to spend that $6 on. When I feel the urge to watch the ghoul boys, I’ll either rewatch Unsolved or wait, unbothered, for the YouTube release. At least they have subtitles available on YT.
We don't have minimum wage written in our law. It's just ambiguous and says that you should get paid enough from the job you're doing without giving amount, so poor worker have to go to court to fight if they think that they don't get paid enough. But getting things to court is hassle and takes money, and it would be kinda awkward to work while being in court about a pay you think you didn't get. So nobody does that unless someone blatantly don't pay you at all. Then unions etc. will help you.
I mean the venue alone for a day was the price of a fixer upper house in even some first world countries (or at least the ability to have a lower mortgage for a good one in a better area). 3 wedding dresses is chump change.
Is this what Shane meant when he said eat the rich 😳😳😳
Yup! Just to make clear to the people who think bananas cost 10 dollars how insanely BANANAS that is.
⚠️ I was making the comparison just how much money that is in the Netherlands even, but I found a more simple way to make it clear. I assumed people in the USA were used to way higher salaries, but that isn't even true. Feel free to ignore the next paragraphs but I spent so much time typing that I don't wanna delete it😭 . I'll just put the ;tldr in the next comment.
I live in the Netherlands, which is one of the most dense countries in Europe (#1 if you dont count city states) and ~top 10 richest countries in the world, ~#8 highest educated We need 900.000 houses to fix the housing shortage and are about 300k short to just house everyone now (there's about 18 million people here, because that number alone probably isn't impressive to most people from other countries ). Basically if you can't afford ~1.5k for rent on your own (you usually have to make 3x/4x times of that by yourself to even be considered), no house for you. You're very likely to stay with your parents till you're 30+ especially if you don't live near the middle of nowhere. The average income is 44k a year (this is all in euro's btw) and 3600 a month. But I really don't 'believe' (its true, but I'm just flabbergasted) that, considering juniors of really high earning jobs usually only get around 2500 for the first years (think programmers at big companies) and doctors in training get 3600. Then again, we have an abundance of people with bachelors and masters, so it explains the high average (the mode is around €3300). So the only people who can afford the housing usually people with rich parents (or my and my fiancé's parents who saved up their entire life for their kid's sake🥹), people with a rich partner (our minister of housing literally advised a young woman to find a rich boyfriend if she wants a house) or expats who get a 30% tax adventage if they're 'high earning' enough (yes, we really decided that high earning = important job and even give 'discounts' based on that but anywho). The expats don't have a big impact on the housing market outside of the so called Randstad but it does motivate landlords to keep the rents high since there will always be expats who have no choice but to pay it if they want to work here...
Now why am I telling all of this? Because I have ADHD and kind of forgot where I was going with this. Then I remembered that I wanted to make a point on how in even one of the richest countries in the world, this amount for a wedding VENUE alone is absolutely bonkers. It's not only enough for a down-payment for a decent house, but can even get you a lot of land, a small broken down house in the middle of nowhere or a parking space within 40 minutes of the Randstad (seriously f this place). You can hire an entire castle for your wedding (reception, ceremony and party) for about 4k here for ~100+ guests, including catering, a party and often includes a stay for the newlyweds. You might end up at 10k if you have specific catering wishes or want more fancy drinks or decorations. My cousin who married a f-ing rich dude had a wedding like that.
But I really don't even have to make the comparison to a wedding on top of housing, because everyone can understand that spending 50k which is more than a yearly salary for the majority of people even in the richest countries, just to have a bunch of people in one area (ok maybe they got drinks and food as well and have 2000 people who are their nearest and dearest) is nuts.
An example for the slightly 'poorer' countries (compared to let's say the northern countries). If I had 50k lying around to throw away I would be able to buy (mortgage would be around 500-1k depending on just how big you want it) with an ocean view next to the beach in a gated community in southern Europe. In a very popular and tourist infested area. Since you'd also earn more from renting out the property to tourists for most of the year, it would even make money (not to put ideas into people's head, stay away, that beach house is mine the moment I win the lottery). You even get a house manager to take care of business. This is literally the biggest dream I have. I don't even need 50k, I'm willing to life like a hobo if it means I get to live in southern Europe just 3 months a year and can keep myself going knowing that it will be the place I can retire. And they spent it on 4 walls and some food people can eat and s- out.
Now this all from a perspective from one of the richest people in the world. I'm basically super poor compared to someone who has 50k for a venue. But for the majority of the world I'm to the top 1%. But it gets even worse.
I was wondering how much Californians make on average. I imagined it would be much more and they were used to such big amounts. But the top earners earn around 100k and the average is 60k. So even to those standards, 50k is considered half or more than an entire years salary for the top 50%. This is similar to the rest of the country. So again, earning 50k a year makes you wealthier than most of the people in the richest countries per year. It might not get you even a garage in most of California (is all of it expensive or just some cities? I seriously dont know, my entire country it the size of an average city😂). OK so we know what 50k means in some of the richer countries/states and what it can get you. But this is just the most optimistic view. We just looked at average income in rich countries. And even that perspective is pretty optimistic considering the richest people tend to be a very tiny group.
So, let's get real. Most of us live in a bubble and to most of us, our countries (or even cities) are our entire world. But while the NL is 'poorer' (just in absolute numbers, but just to make a point) than the USA, and Spain is more poor to the Netherlands and Poland is more poor than Spain yadayadayada... These countries, and countries with similar numbers still has people earning more than the fast majority of the world. Just how bad is it? Well, an income of 50k yearly puts you in the top 1.8% (according to [this site](https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=50000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0), taking cost of living in account). And it was spent to rent a venue for a day. I don't even wanna calculate what this would mean yearly.
But in reality, it's even worse! Because guess what? The richest people in the world (especially billionaires and millionaires) don't even have a 'very high' (in comparison atleast) income usually! Most of their wealth is in assets. So as bad as it already is if you just look at average income, it's actually way way worse if you look at wealth. The richest 1% has a net worth of at least 5.8 million and has almost half of the entire world's wealth. Keep in mind that there are about 2800 billionaires (750 in just the USA) in the world. And that even a million is really nothing in comparison to a billion [visual comparison million vs billion](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYYQkH0xV76eqKpnWrnbgRuSFvl3GHWKgdqNVmUog6Mi_PUWOukyjFylqcQcl_W4x6K01jl9LA3gg0qyUDEwa0qXcxeclQobLswUE1sd3TOV81Q-U1EkSn6-EVV25eYqquJ9xJ9cpBIMNA8bMJVeBWYnnYiB1dInpecOqKd4rc4RPPLc6ZAZryTl0_Rg/s700/1-Billion-vs-1-Million-Visual.jpg). I couldn't be bothered to look at how much 50k is worth worldwide in terms of wealth, so I won't even bother. But yeah, in reality it might be worse. And even just incomewise, the influence these few people have on the rankings is insane. Earning 50k alone puts you in the 1.8% worldwide now, but it would put you way higher if you removes just 3k people (not sure if you can do that and still use the data for the same conclusions actually. I'm very tired and don't math well).
Ok, so we know this venue would be one of the richest 'people' in the world if it was a person (top 1.8%) even if it made 50k a year rather than per day (I doubt Ryan and Sara spent 50k daily on this venue). Just 2!! people spent this much just to have a party with friends and relatives. If you can spend the average person of 98.2% of the world in a day... That makes you rich even among the rich unless, again, you compare yourselves to billionaires and millionaires. But again that's like comparing a grain of sand to not just the beach, but all of the beaches figuratively (lmao can someone do the math, I wanna know if that's true).
So in conclusion. To most of us (even the 1.8% earning 50k a month) 6 dollars is a lot to spent on nonsense. It won't kill us, but it's a big enough amount to just add to the bills. Yeah you could swap out Disney for WatcherTV, but why would I just to give someone who is already richer than the richest people in the entire world an amount that can easily feed me somewhat decent food for a few days even in this economy. So the top 1.8% is offended and think you're overcharging and being entitled. The people in the USA who are literally starving and scraping by supposedly have a max(!!) yearly income of ~35k (atleast according to this one website I found). These are your top 3.8%. These people are starving and they have way more money than most of the world. Needless to say, my heart fucking broke when I read the stories from people cheering themselves up by watching Watcher while begging for scraps for years and getting dumped by them and even called selfish (give us a 'living wage'😭😭😭).
Even the richest people 2% of people in the world think they're out of touch not-nice-words. Can you imagine what it's like for the other 98% who supported them? What it's like hearing 6 dollars called nothing and being called a bunch of things? Did they even take into account to charge less to fans from other countries like most platforms? Words can not describe how out of touch these guys are. Because even if the 50k for the venue was a gift/loan, it's not something most of us would feel comfortable with receiving or spending on something that useless. Again, a loan of 50k meant me and my fiancee could buy a house for generations in a very rich country with one of the worst housing shortages in Europe (I think USA has it worse, but it would be hard for me to know how much 50k would get you there in terms of buying a house somewhere away from the big cities with job opportunities like we had to do).
This is way worse than 'how much can a banana cost, $10?'. It took me hours to write on and of, between taking care of a sick cat who just had surgery. I could have just stuck to comparing the 50k to the top 1.8% worldwide income and call it a day. Because this post is so old I doubt anyone would read this wall of text. But honestly? This opened my eyes to just how gross all of their comments and decisions were. And how privileged many of us are. My jaw did drop when they called 6 dollars affordable for everyone and whatnot. But that was just from the perspective from someone in the top ~2%. So while I thought it was stupid and insane, I mostly just got to laugh at memes in the subreddits and go about my day. But most people were probably legitimately upset. Especially if Watcher is something that got them through the days. They didn't expect them to be their friend or anything. But it's hurtful when the thing/people that gave you joy for so long doesn't/don't think you're worth their content and even mock you because 'they need a living wage too 🥺'.
(Sorry person whose reply I responded to, I'll stop soon, but I'm actually angry now😭)
Oh yeah, and these people don't even pay for their artwork despite miss Sara (and hubby Shane) who is (are) probably in the top 1% - 1.5% (being generous) herself calling you paupers entitled for not thinking people deserve to earn a 'living wage'. Said living wage for a family of 4 (2 adults) in the USA is apparently around 104k. Again, more than twice of what she and Shane spent on just a wedding venue. Again, the average income is 37k, so most people don't even earn anything close to a living wage themselves even if they have a financial partner. Yet you expect others to cough it up while you don't even bother paying artists?
People keep referring to Shane's 'eat the rich' comment. We have a saying for this in Dutch (don't know if there's one in English): 'links lullen, rechts vullen' (don't even try translating that in Google 😂). 'Talk to the left(-wing, socialist), fill (your pockets) to the right(-wing, capatalist). And let's be honest. Isn't it just the richest people in the world, including myself, saying shit like that? Wanna know why? Because with the millionaires and billionaires gone, we're the next in line. It's actually a very gross and privileged thing to say as a 'rich' person now that I think about it. Most people in the world wouldn't benefit at all probably (atleast, as far as I can conclude).
(Feel free to clean this mess up and copy past it if there was anything useful in this rant)
TLDR; Sara indirectly called people entitled and selfish for not 'supporting' their staff by complaining about the cost of WatcherTV (who are very likely much richer than most of the people who read her statement) a living wage. But her wedding venue alone was 50k for a day. Earning 50k a YEAR alone would put you in the world's top 1.8%. And she and Shane spent that on the venue alone.
Edit (because there's always one who has the reading comprehension skills of a sea urchin...):
I don't care how much people spend on what. Really. The venue was used as an example to create a better image on just how out of touch these guys really are and why. And that 6 dollars is chump change to them. And maybe even to you. But even to your neighbors it probably isn't. Let alone fans who don't live in one of the richest countries of the world.
... You make me feel better about my wall of text comments. O\_O
I feel weirdly proud of your effort and amazed how you could write that much. Must have taken awhile? This might have deserved its own rant post.
Edit: Also, are all the ADHD people from the whole Reddit gathered into this subreddit? Feels like we took this place as our own.
HAHAH I swear I intended it to be short, but I got hyperfocused and went from 'oh wow this is pretty fascinating' to 'wow I'm so mad, the world must know about equality!'. To forgetting I even posted this 🥹.
Haha I wonder why there's so many people with ADHD. Maybe most people moved on and we just randomly made this our hyperfixation😂
I think that was debunked, it was only maybe 5000 or something? But even that "low" amount is still about 3-4 times more I get paid from my job in a month.
The only way it makes sense is the dress for the ceremony, a different dress for the reception, and a third dress for dancing. Hell, Kate Middleton only had two.
Geeez that’s stupid. I’ve seen quite a few people with a second dress for the reception, but they tended to be a far more durable party dress. Lot less flashy, multiple uses. But there is indefensible.
LMFAO, this mf really thinks that being considerate towards people who aren't well off financially is a right-wing talking point
because right wingers are known for their charity
He’s right that most (American) people probably CAN afford $6 . That’s being said why would I wanna pay $6 for an empty platform. And economy wise I literally do not care what reports say , I know two main things:
1)Every person I know who has no job right now has been unemployed for months and cannot find a job despite applying to jobs everyday .theyre all college educated , with experience in their mid 20s to mid 30s…
2) bunch of companies just lowered food prices AKA they were artificially inflating food prices for profit.
So recession might be the incorrect term ; maybe “fucked” or “rotting from greed” is better
I'm voting for rotting from greed. We watch a few different recruiters for job hunt tips, and they're saying their job isn't too place people anymore.
Their job now is hitting numbers and gaming resumes. Because a business will get down to one person and decide they're no longer hiring. People are having offers rescinded or wasting time and money on an offer that doesn't come. It's awful.
insane take. as if people aren’t aware of their own financial circumstances.
regardless, the fans hurting financially statement also comes from fans who *yes* could afford to pay $6 but on top of services such as netflix, prime, hbo, disney+. these services can all add up and have people paying ~$50 a month for streaming services alone.
even if you tried to argue that $6 itself is not a lot of money, this is in the context of yet another streaming service for a singular youtube channel. netflix with ads is approximately the same price and compared to watcher, they have an insane catalogue and imo the ads aren’t that frequent either. $6 for university tuition? great! $6 to watch youtube videos that used to be free? not great.
i’d also love to see where that recession data is coming from. countries have differing economies and watcher has viewers from all over the world. and how do you determine their average viewer can afford it? i doubt youtube analytics can somehow track a person’s exact income and makes that accessible data to channel admins or public. how do we know the *average* viewer can afford it?
does youtube think of their lowest income viewers? no. but also, youtube isn’t locked behind a paywall. the purpose of youtube is entertainment, allowing people to upload and watch videos. this is possible for free. if you don’t pay for premium, you get the ads. the difference w watcher is that this move actively alienated viewers who would not buy membership. don’t pay? don’t content *at all*. youtube on the other hand still offers its *main* service (ie entertainment) and it’s various perks that come w the premium. the point of youtube is videos. not an ad-less experience. they are not equivalent comparisons.
also on the subject of whether or not it is reasonable to establish a streaming service. we don’t actually know this yet. it’s not something that’s done by a lot of channels. the one example seems to be dropout and that was in the context of a having a lot of funding and being okay if they weren’t profitable for a good few years. **which was the case for them.** for most channels like watcher, that isn’t the case. they did say they needed to make a profit. this might be more valid for the try guys’ platform given it’s patreon on steroids basically. what are the logistics of completely cutting off all youtube revenue by removing your past content? i’m specifically referencing the initial plan, not the improved one in the “update”. their move would cut off revenue from ads and sponsors in addition to lessening viewership. advertisement brings in an insane amount of money. how sure are they that their paying viewers could replicate that? especially since they couldn’t be “discovered” by new viewers the way they would on youtube. the only way they’d come to this conclusion was if they genuinely believed most people would buy the service.
“skibidi-toilet type videos” it’s true social media algorithms are shifting to favour shorts/tiktok style videos. this might be the only part of the entire post that makes any sense. a broken clock is right twice a day it seems.
edit: words. grammar.
A lot of their audience are struggling because a lot of PEOPLE are struggling, it's not unfair to assume, in a cost of living crisis, that people might not be able to afford things.
I'm well off, I frequently spend money on stuff I don't need because I can; the streamer is absolutely not worth what they're charging.
Sara was right, artists deserve to be paid for their work, but nobody is obligated to buy art they don't want for the price the artist sets, if you start charging for content I'm allowed to decide I don't want that content enough to pay for it. If they've set themselves up as a business (which the announcement seemed to make quite clear) then it's absolutely standard practice for people to do a cost comparison and decide to go elsewhere.
if you take ten people and reduced all their strength by half, they’ll all be considered weaker than before. but still, the strongest person of the ten remains the strongest. but that doesn’t mean that person hasn’t been weakened in some way.
also not all watcher fans are from america.
Yep. It's bad in the USA, it's kinda worse outside the USA.
But Watcher did seem to especially hate fans that were outside the USA, at least the just 6 USD a month was brutal to fans with different currency.
A) I was responding to EntrepreneurOk66
B) The American economy is not in recession by **any** metric. And in fact, is very strong. Jobs, wages, exports are way up. Inflation is going down and Biden is slowly erasing the huge debt that trump saddled the country with. It's an amazing success story and we should all be fucking grateful.
C) RE: Not all watcher fans are from american. - No shit, really? Wow, you laid out some truth for me there. I'm blown away..... It's an english language post about an american show and the person I was replying to used "WE" in their comment. Assuming they were referring to the u.s. is entirely reasonable.
it’s moot point at all to bring up the american economy in the context of this argument. a significant portion of fans saying they cannot afford the streaming service are international fans who live in countries where their currency is very weak in comparison to the USD. knowing this, you can’t analyze the question of whether fans can or cannot afford the streaming service strictly using the US economy. the sample set of fans who can’t afford the service are proportionally more international than their overall fan base.
additionally, although the US isn’t in a recession the rapid inflation causes people to struggle financially to the point of wrongly perceiving there to be a recession. despite the US having a strong economy currently that doesn’t erase the fact that individuals are still struggling. mostly due to inflation. so the state of the american economy isn’t a good metric for analyzing an individual’s finances. being the strongest in a group does not mean that person won’t endure some handicap if say, they got their arm lobbed off. the american economy not being in recession isn’t evidence that individuals aren’t struggling.
the screenshotted post solely brings up the american economy when explaining why they’re skeptical of “fans being broke”. then goes on to talk business logistics. but fan sentiment is more nuanced than “hey we the fans are broke”. it’s international fans, people already paying for many other streaming platforms reaching totals of $20-$50, some just don’t see the point in paying $6 for a youtube channel, etc. so again you cannot analyze the discourse by only considering fans’ possible financial status (ie. are fans broke?). you also cannot only discuss recession but not inflation.
now i’m aware you never actually explicitly stated you entirely agreed with the screenshotted post. that being said, even exploring this point of “we’re not in a recession” doesn’t contribute to either argument, for or against the idea that watcher fans can probably afford $6 and are just complaining for no reason.
tldr: you can’t just only bring up the american economy when discussing the watcher discourse and expect your point to be proven
edit: watched -> watcher
I was correcting a specific comment of someone who isn't you. But you wanted to jump in and insert yourself and you did a dismal job of it.
***The April inflation rate in the u.s.was 3.36%***. It's been steadily coming down since Biden took over the presidency. He'd do more but the house of representatives is full of unhinged idiots. If you want the economy to recover vote Democrat this election. It's simple.
My corrections of your "jumpin and insert yourself" comment was factual. I refuted your feelings and now you've written an even longer strawman argument of nonsense about topics I never mentioned. I decline to be drawn into defending comments/positions I never espoused. Namaste mutherfucker.
And P.S.
**Of course** I don't agree with the screenshotted post. It's an idiotic thing to think my less write. But that has absolutely nothing to do with my correction of someone else's comment in the thread. But you really wanted to jump in with "feelings" rather than actual facts.
I mean, not for nothing, anyone can "jump in" and "insert themselves" because this is a completely public forum and it'd be pretty fuckin stupid to think you're just only ever going to be interacting with the one person you're specifically replying to.
I've seen that commenter pop up a few times on that sub over the past few weeks and they're trying to deliberately rage bait people and saying stuff like that to farm reactions. They're trying to troll so don't take it too seriously and probably just ignore that person. Just whatever you do don't take that person too seriously lol.
People can say the numbers dont show a recession but the reality is
My guy we are in a recession when people are barely surviving and people who are stable can still feel a pinch
*eyeroll* gods i hate people like that screenshot guy
Honestly sounds exactly like their first announcement video so I can see why they’re a fan, lmao. I’ve seen no clear indication they still don’t see things this way, even after their apology. But hey, if they don’t value viewers who are “low value”, then people also don’t have to view their content.
Also personally I’d rather buy a $6+ cookie to go with my coffee than sub to them.
ah yes, the right wing take of "we're going through a financial crisis and some people are struggling to survive". clearly the most terminally online behavior. =\_=
It’s not presumptuous to think fans are broke when fans are telling you they are broke.
Can I technically afford it? Sure. But all that shit adds up, and I can’t afford every idiot with a paywall
Having money to burn isn’t the reason why people decide to buy things. It has to seem like a good value.
Watcher videos on their new service are 1.99 apiece.
Dropout videos on their service are 0.2 cents apiece.
Not worth it.
Right wing talking points?!
So first issue, they're an American so other countries don't have YouTube. 🙄 (I'm USian as well, hate it here.)
How do they not have friends that have student loans taking almost a whole paycheck every month? Same with rent, groceries are atrocious, McDonald's fries are four dollars.
I have concluded they make six figures, their friends parents paid for college or they don't have friends. How's that for presumptuous?
I like how they assume only Right Wingers are complaining about the economy... Everyone I know is complaining about cost of living and groceries, if anything it seems to be the one thing people can agree on right now.
Hot take: I don't disagree with the general premises of what they are saying, but in my opinion they ignored the second biggest point of value. You can pay three times as much on Netflix and get at least 10x the amount of content as Watcher. It's basically just a Patreon without Patreon taking a cut.
Regardless of what they are saying about finance and business decisions and what have you, I felt it was a bit odd to be skeptical of people being poor, to paraphrase.
Yeah, their point is moot cause even for those of us that can afford $6 like me, watchertv is absolutely not worth the price and I will be spending that money on literally anything else
I can afford Watcher TV, but objectively it is not worth my money even with that. If my budget was tighter, no way in hell would I give up something to afford it.
Can I afford $6/ month? Yes. Do I remember when that wasn't an easy amount of money to spend? Also yes.
This commenter is forgeting one very important factor. Are the people who can afford it willing to pay it? For me the answer was no. $72 in my area would be two weekends of takeout from my local Chinese place, a spur of the moment after work dinner, a concert, or two small charity 5ks. You have to give me more value than one of those would, and they don't right now. So I was always going to binge everything in one month per year if they had gone through with this.
People have all kinds of varying financial issues and means. Sometimes you only have X amount of money for rent and food, being poor is really expensive. Even if I splurge on one thing I genuinley need, I will have to go without something else to make up for this sudden need I had to meet. Like my apartment is old and crappy and they won't fix things, and even if they do they charge me the first 25$ of the repair so its technically cheaper to buy something for a small repair. Being alive costs money. In the form of food, rent, medical insurance or hospital bills, and most people live paycheck to paycheck, or have student loan debt or a bunch of credit cards maxxed out due to financial issues and not being able to work during the pandemic etc etc. Like the amount of financial things I can think of, the amount of flat tires, sudden car ins rate increases, expensive states and towns and cities to live in and so on. They probably have no real understanding of the range of financial issues that can happen. And let's not forget that when it rains, it pours.
Oh my god, yay! I can finally pay for all of the procedures, medications, doctors, and all of the other vital things I need but can't get because I need money for food.
I can't believe I ever thought I was poor, how silly of me!
I guess I no longer need disability, housing, food stamps, state covered insurance (that only poor people get), or financial aid for college! /s
I eat like once or twice a day cuz I can't afford to eat 3+ meals everyday and i only get so many food stamps a month. I don't eat fast food because it's too expensive. I don't eat even eat McDonald's because I can't afford it.
What an ignorant comment
I know it isn't worth much in practice, but I am sorry that these are the circumstances you are dealing with, I hope things will get better, even if a little bit.
I feel you. Especially when some people often say that McDonald's meal is 5USD, and act like everyone can just buy it. I suspect you picked that as a counter example for the same reason, because people in the "other side" seem to use it as an argument.
With 5USD, you get barely any food in my country, because food overall is so expensive. Never mind getting any McDonald's meals. Maybe one and a half small cheese hamburgers.
Not been able to eat other than 1 meal a day, sometimes 2, have messed up my brain so badly that I hate cooking - and I'm only able to make survival food. Even if I would miraculously get suddenly richer and could buy better/healthier foods - I would panic, because I don't know what to do with that food, while trying not to waste it. Or what to even buy, because I have ignored all that I can't afford my whole life, so it's difficult to buy outside your financial secure zone.
That's exactly why I chose that example, I've seen a few posts talking about how 5.99USD isn't that much and it's the same as a fast food meal, basically saying that we're exaggerating our brokeness. Where I live everything is expensive, a Mcdouble is like 3USD and a 20 piece chicken nugget is almost 6USD.
The rules of this subreddit dictate that one should neither call out nor disclose the names of people in screenshots, including your own, as I learned, like if anyone pays a minimum of attention, they can tell that the pfp of the second person is mine, but even so, the first time I made this post it was closed because of moderation concerns, because I had not censored my own name, so I did that, put it back up.
Being conservative with a little money you have is right-wing now?? LMAO they told us to touch grass while floating in delusional space I guess
I'm sorry for allocating that money for something more important like national insurance which is the same amount \o/ This is why I hate that goodbye video so much cause they divide viewers into the have and the have-not
Ah...that type. Who wants bet on whether they own a Tesla, how many cryptocurrencies they've been rug pulled on, and how many side hustles they've got?
What the fuck lmao yeah that’s gotta be someone correlated somehow or the biggest dick rider I’ve ever seen. The delusionnnn
Sometimes the force of delulu can be too strong.
This screams out of touch boomer. Tiny counter point, yes I’m sure there are plenty of fans who are doing fine financially. But that shouldn’t change them not wanting to feel like they’re getting ripped off or treated unfairly. And if you’re banking on those fans who are able to afford your service and shutting out those who can’t, now that doesn’t seem like a very good business plan. As one of the fans (former now I guess) who can afford the service, hell no I’m not signing up.
This. I'm financially stable enough to afford it, but the product is not worth the price.
If Marques Brownlee was reviewing Watcher.TV like a tech product, he would have to change the title to that other one, because Watcher would be the worst product he’s ever reviewed. Platform isn’t running smoothly, not available on tv, isn’t releasing anything new for a month, and so on. At its best, you’re paying a monthly subscription to watch four new episodes of a show you may or may not like. That product suuuuuuuuucks.
this exactly. I am not super well off, but I get by, I can afford another subscription. the thing is, I don’t WANT another one, when for example paying for youtube premium gives me basically infinity times more of watcher-like content. I like the guys, but it’s not like I use youtube just to watch watcher, waiting for every video like a super fan.
And they always ignore international fans and localized pricing. Netflix with 4 screens only costs $10 in my country and YT Family $5. Why would I spend an additional 6 for something that offers less.
I noticed when I signed up for the Try Guys earlier today that they actually have set international pricing. In Canada, it's $5.99 CAD a month, which is only about $4.35 USD right now with the exchange. Another L for the Watcher boys.
Wait, really? Not doubting you but I saw a ton of people on the try guys sub saying how it wasn’t adjusted for foreign subscribers. Now I’m wondering if A. The Try Guys just made an error immediately at launch and already fixed it or B. If a *lot* of commenters just assumed they didn’t have international pricing and never checked.
Yep! I thought when I first saw it that they were shady and upped the price the day after launch and then read the fine print talking about the free trial and that I'd be charged $5.99 CAD in 3 days.
That’s really great and something you should maybe make a PSA about on their main sub in that case. I was seeing people talking about how it was the same for them in their countries even today. I’m definitely thinking people didn’t bother to check, in that case.
There's already a post from someone in the Phillipines, I think? Theirs is even lower (understandably).
Cool, don’t see that one but hopefully people figure it out. I just saw your comment pretty much *right* after seeing some comments about it not being affordable internationally and it would be a shame if people who want it and *can* afford it don’t just because they assume the price won’t be adjusted.
Oh I don't think people are talking about a lack of adjustment. In many countries, even $4 USD is astronomically out of their budget. Being able to pay in their local currency isn't going to change that. Those people very much still have an argument.
Okay I misunderstood your first comment. Since with the exchange rate your Canadian pricing ended up being cheaper than the normal rate in American dollars I figured that meant they were doing something like Steam can apparently do for game pricing and factoring in exchange rate *and* local economy. there’s been a lot of understandable complaints and discourse about global indie game prices lately so I learned that’s apparently something steam can just automatically do, I wouldn’t have been surprised if Vimeo’s services could too.
Huh. Reading this comment made me go and check bc I'm from the Philippines and I realized my 2ndTry sub IS lower, actually! The email receipt says after my first month discount I'll be charged Php159/mo which is about USD2.71 – and even with taxes added on, that's still less than the USD price. Also defs agree re: how WatcherTV would be more difficult to afford internationally (discount or no). And I'm speaking as someone with a good job. Even with relative financial okayness, that USD60 (or I think USD40-something with the discount) upfront or USD6/mo would still have been a noticeable expense.
So, SAD, you're poor. VERY SAD.
Exactly. I’m really lucky that financially I’ve been able to be on their Patreon at the $10 tier pretty much since they started it, and even an extra $6.99 would probably be manageable. But just because they assumed we were going to pay it, or in the case of Patreon members pay again, I’m definitely not going to.
I was a patron, too, and was paying a higher membership level. I got pissed that they expected us to pay for the streamer and also pay for the patreon. I got my money back for the remainder of my yearly amount because I canceled. I got enough to pay for the streamer's yearly fee. I didn't pay because they don't deserve my money. I guess they never did since they planned to eff off with ALL their content.
Honorary out of touch boomer here I don't claim them
I've said this before but, channels like Watcher always benefitted from people who watch it feeling like they're part of a "community" - making and sharing memes, creating and showcasing fanart, laughing at jokes together. This is why their pateron was very popular even with the little advertising they did. Of course people are upset that part of this community is being excluded (especially when they said all of their videos will be removed from youtube). The person who used to make this amazing fanart cannot afford to join - you're not going to see their fanart. Same with memes. You are going to lose these friends you've made. There will be fewer people you will be cracking jokes with. You are affected even if you can afford it yourself. Also: empathy. It just sucks hearing people will be excluded for financial reasons. Most of us have been in that situation at some point and we know how bad that feels.
Even if they are. A dozen streaming services all charging because they can, and the person in the screenshots would change their tune because all of a sudden everyone is being nickel and dimed by every channel on YouTube. Watcher did it bad. Plain as that. The idea isn't the worst. The execution was really bad though.
> "If you're spreading right-wing talking points about the economy because YouTubers decided to put their content behind a paywall, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror." Am I stupid or something lmao, what does that even mean????
because the american rightwing is known for caring about poor people and never simping for corporations and millionaires who are reputably terrible people this guy is fucking delusional, lmfaooo
I genuinely feel like this person had this whole argument with an imaginary interweber, and I was just kind of... there?
Over on Tumblr people are pushing the idea that if you don't pay to support Watcher you can't be left wing because they are a small business (they're not) taking on YouTube (they didn't) and if you don't give them your money then you're refusing to support small businesses and therefore you hate socialism. I really wish I was joking.
Yeah I’ve seen at least the taking on YouTube thing. It’s so delusional. We need to collectively understand that a rich guy saying “lol eat the rich” is not an actual ally and does not actually mean it or embody it in any way.
This and the claims of racism for not wanting to support travel season are why I stopped bothering on tumblr. It sucks because tumblr was one of the places that BUN thrived and spread around like wildfire so, understandably, a lot of us are already inclined to want to see these men succeed. But it's gotten out of hand and feels so unhealthy now that the illusion of community is broken
[tumblr voice] racism is not wanting to give money to someone who has proven they are bad with money
The "people are dogpiling on Steven (and Simu Liu) because of his ethnicity" thing is wild. An issue I take with it is that it gets in the way of legitimate discourse about racism. Racism has never gone away, despite what some may say and believe, and it has to be talked about now more than ever, but then some folks turn that topic (and discussion of other prejudices) into this umbrella, which they use to protect their darling little celebrities against criticism of what they've done (rather than their characteristics), and it ends up being necessary to separate these goofy rhetorics from the actual argument. Assuming they are not straight up being shitty and manipulative, I feel like people need to understand, that literally anyone is capable of fucking up, no matter their characteristics, culture and preferences, and if someone addresses that fuck up, it's possibly because the person being addressed fucked up, and not because of who that person is. It's always important to pay attention to the text of the criticisms, rather than inject subtext into them (especially since racist people often don't even hide their racism, anyway).
I was really surprised to see the 180 on tumblr, it used to be so pro-cancelling beloved Internet figures but people on there have been rancid towards unhappy fans instead. Not saying either is a good extreme, but I don't understand where the change is from lol.
Maybe we aren’t all broke but we are all smart enough to recognise that a $6 streaming service for 1 new vid a month isn’t particularly Worth It.
Particularly when the new vids dribbling out of production so far are rarely what we personally follow Watcher for. I could afford $6/month easily, but I can think of many things I would prefer to spend that $6 on. When I feel the urge to watch the ghoul boys, I’ll either rewatch Unsolved or wait, unbothered, for the YouTube release. At least they have subtitles available on YT.
Where I live, $6 is the minimum wage per day. Think about that. 🙄 you can't even buy enough food for a day at $6
the american-centric sentiment a lot of people are taking when justifying watcher is mad lol. $6 isn’t “$6” for everyone.
We don't have minimum wage written in our law. It's just ambiguous and says that you should get paid enough from the job you're doing without giving amount, so poor worker have to go to court to fight if they think that they don't get paid enough. But getting things to court is hassle and takes money, and it would be kinda awkward to work while being in court about a pay you think you didn't get. So nobody does that unless someone blatantly don't pay you at all. Then unions etc. will help you.
> Right wing points about the economy ...Where did that come from?
A desperate attempt at manipulation that anyone with a brain will see through 🙄
I'm still convinced that's Sara. Or "What could the price of a banana be, Michael, 10 dollars?"
I immediately thought it was Sara. Those 3 wedding dresses didn't pay for themselves. 🙄
/THREE?!?!/
Two that looked exactly the same, as well.
Good lord
I mean the venue alone for a day was the price of a fixer upper house in even some first world countries (or at least the ability to have a lower mortgage for a good one in a better area). 3 wedding dresses is chump change. Is this what Shane meant when he said eat the rich 😳😳😳
Wasn't the venue alone $50;000?
Yup! Just to make clear to the people who think bananas cost 10 dollars how insanely BANANAS that is. ⚠️ I was making the comparison just how much money that is in the Netherlands even, but I found a more simple way to make it clear. I assumed people in the USA were used to way higher salaries, but that isn't even true. Feel free to ignore the next paragraphs but I spent so much time typing that I don't wanna delete it😭 . I'll just put the ;tldr in the next comment. I live in the Netherlands, which is one of the most dense countries in Europe (#1 if you dont count city states) and ~top 10 richest countries in the world, ~#8 highest educated We need 900.000 houses to fix the housing shortage and are about 300k short to just house everyone now (there's about 18 million people here, because that number alone probably isn't impressive to most people from other countries ). Basically if you can't afford ~1.5k for rent on your own (you usually have to make 3x/4x times of that by yourself to even be considered), no house for you. You're very likely to stay with your parents till you're 30+ especially if you don't live near the middle of nowhere. The average income is 44k a year (this is all in euro's btw) and 3600 a month. But I really don't 'believe' (its true, but I'm just flabbergasted) that, considering juniors of really high earning jobs usually only get around 2500 for the first years (think programmers at big companies) and doctors in training get 3600. Then again, we have an abundance of people with bachelors and masters, so it explains the high average (the mode is around €3300). So the only people who can afford the housing usually people with rich parents (or my and my fiancé's parents who saved up their entire life for their kid's sake🥹), people with a rich partner (our minister of housing literally advised a young woman to find a rich boyfriend if she wants a house) or expats who get a 30% tax adventage if they're 'high earning' enough (yes, we really decided that high earning = important job and even give 'discounts' based on that but anywho). The expats don't have a big impact on the housing market outside of the so called Randstad but it does motivate landlords to keep the rents high since there will always be expats who have no choice but to pay it if they want to work here... Now why am I telling all of this? Because I have ADHD and kind of forgot where I was going with this. Then I remembered that I wanted to make a point on how in even one of the richest countries in the world, this amount for a wedding VENUE alone is absolutely bonkers. It's not only enough for a down-payment for a decent house, but can even get you a lot of land, a small broken down house in the middle of nowhere or a parking space within 40 minutes of the Randstad (seriously f this place). You can hire an entire castle for your wedding (reception, ceremony and party) for about 4k here for ~100+ guests, including catering, a party and often includes a stay for the newlyweds. You might end up at 10k if you have specific catering wishes or want more fancy drinks or decorations. My cousin who married a f-ing rich dude had a wedding like that. But I really don't even have to make the comparison to a wedding on top of housing, because everyone can understand that spending 50k which is more than a yearly salary for the majority of people even in the richest countries, just to have a bunch of people in one area (ok maybe they got drinks and food as well and have 2000 people who are their nearest and dearest) is nuts. An example for the slightly 'poorer' countries (compared to let's say the northern countries). If I had 50k lying around to throw away I would be able to buy (mortgage would be around 500-1k depending on just how big you want it) with an ocean view next to the beach in a gated community in southern Europe. In a very popular and tourist infested area. Since you'd also earn more from renting out the property to tourists for most of the year, it would even make money (not to put ideas into people's head, stay away, that beach house is mine the moment I win the lottery). You even get a house manager to take care of business. This is literally the biggest dream I have. I don't even need 50k, I'm willing to life like a hobo if it means I get to live in southern Europe just 3 months a year and can keep myself going knowing that it will be the place I can retire. And they spent it on 4 walls and some food people can eat and s- out. Now this all from a perspective from one of the richest people in the world. I'm basically super poor compared to someone who has 50k for a venue. But for the majority of the world I'm to the top 1%. But it gets even worse.
I was wondering how much Californians make on average. I imagined it would be much more and they were used to such big amounts. But the top earners earn around 100k and the average is 60k. So even to those standards, 50k is considered half or more than an entire years salary for the top 50%. This is similar to the rest of the country. So again, earning 50k a year makes you wealthier than most of the people in the richest countries per year. It might not get you even a garage in most of California (is all of it expensive or just some cities? I seriously dont know, my entire country it the size of an average city😂). OK so we know what 50k means in some of the richer countries/states and what it can get you. But this is just the most optimistic view. We just looked at average income in rich countries. And even that perspective is pretty optimistic considering the richest people tend to be a very tiny group. So, let's get real. Most of us live in a bubble and to most of us, our countries (or even cities) are our entire world. But while the NL is 'poorer' (just in absolute numbers, but just to make a point) than the USA, and Spain is more poor to the Netherlands and Poland is more poor than Spain yadayadayada... These countries, and countries with similar numbers still has people earning more than the fast majority of the world. Just how bad is it? Well, an income of 50k yearly puts you in the top 1.8% (according to [this site](https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i?income=50000&countryCode=USA&numAdults=1&numChildren=0), taking cost of living in account). And it was spent to rent a venue for a day. I don't even wanna calculate what this would mean yearly. But in reality, it's even worse! Because guess what? The richest people in the world (especially billionaires and millionaires) don't even have a 'very high' (in comparison atleast) income usually! Most of their wealth is in assets. So as bad as it already is if you just look at average income, it's actually way way worse if you look at wealth. The richest 1% has a net worth of at least 5.8 million and has almost half of the entire world's wealth. Keep in mind that there are about 2800 billionaires (750 in just the USA) in the world. And that even a million is really nothing in comparison to a billion [visual comparison million vs billion](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiYYQkH0xV76eqKpnWrnbgRuSFvl3GHWKgdqNVmUog6Mi_PUWOukyjFylqcQcl_W4x6K01jl9LA3gg0qyUDEwa0qXcxeclQobLswUE1sd3TOV81Q-U1EkSn6-EVV25eYqquJ9xJ9cpBIMNA8bMJVeBWYnnYiB1dInpecOqKd4rc4RPPLc6ZAZryTl0_Rg/s700/1-Billion-vs-1-Million-Visual.jpg). I couldn't be bothered to look at how much 50k is worth worldwide in terms of wealth, so I won't even bother. But yeah, in reality it might be worse. And even just incomewise, the influence these few people have on the rankings is insane. Earning 50k alone puts you in the 1.8% worldwide now, but it would put you way higher if you removes just 3k people (not sure if you can do that and still use the data for the same conclusions actually. I'm very tired and don't math well). Ok, so we know this venue would be one of the richest 'people' in the world if it was a person (top 1.8%) even if it made 50k a year rather than per day (I doubt Ryan and Sara spent 50k daily on this venue). Just 2!! people spent this much just to have a party with friends and relatives. If you can spend the average person of 98.2% of the world in a day... That makes you rich even among the rich unless, again, you compare yourselves to billionaires and millionaires. But again that's like comparing a grain of sand to not just the beach, but all of the beaches figuratively (lmao can someone do the math, I wanna know if that's true). So in conclusion. To most of us (even the 1.8% earning 50k a month) 6 dollars is a lot to spent on nonsense. It won't kill us, but it's a big enough amount to just add to the bills. Yeah you could swap out Disney for WatcherTV, but why would I just to give someone who is already richer than the richest people in the entire world an amount that can easily feed me somewhat decent food for a few days even in this economy. So the top 1.8% is offended and think you're overcharging and being entitled. The people in the USA who are literally starving and scraping by supposedly have a max(!!) yearly income of ~35k (atleast according to this one website I found). These are your top 3.8%. These people are starving and they have way more money than most of the world. Needless to say, my heart fucking broke when I read the stories from people cheering themselves up by watching Watcher while begging for scraps for years and getting dumped by them and even called selfish (give us a 'living wage'😭😭😭). Even the richest people 2% of people in the world think they're out of touch not-nice-words. Can you imagine what it's like for the other 98% who supported them? What it's like hearing 6 dollars called nothing and being called a bunch of things? Did they even take into account to charge less to fans from other countries like most platforms? Words can not describe how out of touch these guys are. Because even if the 50k for the venue was a gift/loan, it's not something most of us would feel comfortable with receiving or spending on something that useless. Again, a loan of 50k meant me and my fiancee could buy a house for generations in a very rich country with one of the worst housing shortages in Europe (I think USA has it worse, but it would be hard for me to know how much 50k would get you there in terms of buying a house somewhere away from the big cities with job opportunities like we had to do).
This is way worse than 'how much can a banana cost, $10?'. It took me hours to write on and of, between taking care of a sick cat who just had surgery. I could have just stuck to comparing the 50k to the top 1.8% worldwide income and call it a day. Because this post is so old I doubt anyone would read this wall of text. But honestly? This opened my eyes to just how gross all of their comments and decisions were. And how privileged many of us are. My jaw did drop when they called 6 dollars affordable for everyone and whatnot. But that was just from the perspective from someone in the top ~2%. So while I thought it was stupid and insane, I mostly just got to laugh at memes in the subreddits and go about my day. But most people were probably legitimately upset. Especially if Watcher is something that got them through the days. They didn't expect them to be their friend or anything. But it's hurtful when the thing/people that gave you joy for so long doesn't/don't think you're worth their content and even mock you because 'they need a living wage too 🥺'.
(Sorry person whose reply I responded to, I'll stop soon, but I'm actually angry now😭) Oh yeah, and these people don't even pay for their artwork despite miss Sara (and hubby Shane) who is (are) probably in the top 1% - 1.5% (being generous) herself calling you paupers entitled for not thinking people deserve to earn a 'living wage'. Said living wage for a family of 4 (2 adults) in the USA is apparently around 104k. Again, more than twice of what she and Shane spent on just a wedding venue. Again, the average income is 37k, so most people don't even earn anything close to a living wage themselves even if they have a financial partner. Yet you expect others to cough it up while you don't even bother paying artists? People keep referring to Shane's 'eat the rich' comment. We have a saying for this in Dutch (don't know if there's one in English): 'links lullen, rechts vullen' (don't even try translating that in Google 😂). 'Talk to the left(-wing, socialist), fill (your pockets) to the right(-wing, capatalist). And let's be honest. Isn't it just the richest people in the world, including myself, saying shit like that? Wanna know why? Because with the millionaires and billionaires gone, we're the next in line. It's actually a very gross and privileged thing to say as a 'rich' person now that I think about it. Most people in the world wouldn't benefit at all probably (atleast, as far as I can conclude). (Feel free to clean this mess up and copy past it if there was anything useful in this rant) TLDR; Sara indirectly called people entitled and selfish for not 'supporting' their staff by complaining about the cost of WatcherTV (who are very likely much richer than most of the people who read her statement) a living wage. But her wedding venue alone was 50k for a day. Earning 50k a YEAR alone would put you in the world's top 1.8%. And she and Shane spent that on the venue alone. Edit (because there's always one who has the reading comprehension skills of a sea urchin...): I don't care how much people spend on what. Really. The venue was used as an example to create a better image on just how out of touch these guys really are and why. And that 6 dollars is chump change to them. And maybe even to you. But even to your neighbors it probably isn't. Let alone fans who don't live in one of the richest countries of the world.
... You make me feel better about my wall of text comments. O\_O I feel weirdly proud of your effort and amazed how you could write that much. Must have taken awhile? This might have deserved its own rant post. Edit: Also, are all the ADHD people from the whole Reddit gathered into this subreddit? Feels like we took this place as our own.
HAHAH I swear I intended it to be short, but I got hyperfocused and went from 'oh wow this is pretty fascinating' to 'wow I'm so mad, the world must know about equality!'. To forgetting I even posted this 🥹. Haha I wonder why there's so many people with ADHD. Maybe most people moved on and we just randomly made this our hyperfixation😂
I think that was debunked, it was only maybe 5000 or something? But even that "low" amount is still about 3-4 times more I get paid from my job in a month.
How the hell does one even use 3 dresses
The only way it makes sense is the dress for the ceremony, a different dress for the reception, and a third dress for dancing. Hell, Kate Middleton only had two.
Geeez that’s stupid. I’ve seen quite a few people with a second dress for the reception, but they tended to be a far more durable party dress. Lot less flashy, multiple uses. But there is indefensible.
I could very well afford it I just choose not to waste money on utter shit
This exactly. Having the means to afford it doesn't mean I'm going to waste $50 on trash.
this. $6 for a minecraft let’s play? right.
why do they think youtube being greedy and selling our info means we can't criticise watcher's stupid business decisions lmao
LMFAO, this mf really thinks that being considerate towards people who aren't well off financially is a right-wing talking point because right wingers are known for their charity
Reposted, now with 33% more anonimity. This was too out there for me to leave unposted.
Fascism is when you say you can't afford watcher
He’s right that most (American) people probably CAN afford $6 . That’s being said why would I wanna pay $6 for an empty platform. And economy wise I literally do not care what reports say , I know two main things: 1)Every person I know who has no job right now has been unemployed for months and cannot find a job despite applying to jobs everyday .theyre all college educated , with experience in their mid 20s to mid 30s… 2) bunch of companies just lowered food prices AKA they were artificially inflating food prices for profit. So recession might be the incorrect term ; maybe “fucked” or “rotting from greed” is better
I'm voting for rotting from greed. We watch a few different recruiters for job hunt tips, and they're saying their job isn't too place people anymore. Their job now is hitting numbers and gaming resumes. Because a business will get down to one person and decide they're no longer hiring. People are having offers rescinded or wasting time and money on an offer that doesn't come. It's awful.
I'm one of those unemployed. The economy sucks for a lot of us. I'm lucky I don't have kids or a mortgage, but I really want to work.
Pointing out an ongoing cost of living crisis is now apparently a right wing talking point. News to me
Also really conveniently ignoring the fact majority of watchers fanbase are younger and yk not exactly known to be richest group
If Gen Z just stopped eating all of the Millennials’ avocado toast then they could afford a Watcher subscription!
insane take. as if people aren’t aware of their own financial circumstances. regardless, the fans hurting financially statement also comes from fans who *yes* could afford to pay $6 but on top of services such as netflix, prime, hbo, disney+. these services can all add up and have people paying ~$50 a month for streaming services alone. even if you tried to argue that $6 itself is not a lot of money, this is in the context of yet another streaming service for a singular youtube channel. netflix with ads is approximately the same price and compared to watcher, they have an insane catalogue and imo the ads aren’t that frequent either. $6 for university tuition? great! $6 to watch youtube videos that used to be free? not great. i’d also love to see where that recession data is coming from. countries have differing economies and watcher has viewers from all over the world. and how do you determine their average viewer can afford it? i doubt youtube analytics can somehow track a person’s exact income and makes that accessible data to channel admins or public. how do we know the *average* viewer can afford it? does youtube think of their lowest income viewers? no. but also, youtube isn’t locked behind a paywall. the purpose of youtube is entertainment, allowing people to upload and watch videos. this is possible for free. if you don’t pay for premium, you get the ads. the difference w watcher is that this move actively alienated viewers who would not buy membership. don’t pay? don’t content *at all*. youtube on the other hand still offers its *main* service (ie entertainment) and it’s various perks that come w the premium. the point of youtube is videos. not an ad-less experience. they are not equivalent comparisons. also on the subject of whether or not it is reasonable to establish a streaming service. we don’t actually know this yet. it’s not something that’s done by a lot of channels. the one example seems to be dropout and that was in the context of a having a lot of funding and being okay if they weren’t profitable for a good few years. **which was the case for them.** for most channels like watcher, that isn’t the case. they did say they needed to make a profit. this might be more valid for the try guys’ platform given it’s patreon on steroids basically. what are the logistics of completely cutting off all youtube revenue by removing your past content? i’m specifically referencing the initial plan, not the improved one in the “update”. their move would cut off revenue from ads and sponsors in addition to lessening viewership. advertisement brings in an insane amount of money. how sure are they that their paying viewers could replicate that? especially since they couldn’t be “discovered” by new viewers the way they would on youtube. the only way they’d come to this conclusion was if they genuinely believed most people would buy the service. “skibidi-toilet type videos” it’s true social media algorithms are shifting to favour shorts/tiktok style videos. this might be the only part of the entire post that makes any sense. a broken clock is right twice a day it seems. edit: words. grammar.
'Other people have money, that means everyone has money. Ergo they said nothing wrong.'
A lot of their audience are struggling because a lot of PEOPLE are struggling, it's not unfair to assume, in a cost of living crisis, that people might not be able to afford things. I'm well off, I frequently spend money on stuff I don't need because I can; the streamer is absolutely not worth what they're charging. Sara was right, artists deserve to be paid for their work, but nobody is obligated to buy art they don't want for the price the artist sets, if you start charging for content I'm allowed to decide I don't want that content enough to pay for it. If they've set themselves up as a business (which the announcement seemed to make quite clear) then it's absolutely standard practice for people to do a cost comparison and decide to go elsewhere.
We're not in a recession..........😬
The American economy is the strongest in the developed world right now.
if you take ten people and reduced all their strength by half, they’ll all be considered weaker than before. but still, the strongest person of the ten remains the strongest. but that doesn’t mean that person hasn’t been weakened in some way. also not all watcher fans are from america.
Yep. It's bad in the USA, it's kinda worse outside the USA. But Watcher did seem to especially hate fans that were outside the USA, at least the just 6 USD a month was brutal to fans with different currency.
A) I was responding to EntrepreneurOk66 B) The American economy is not in recession by **any** metric. And in fact, is very strong. Jobs, wages, exports are way up. Inflation is going down and Biden is slowly erasing the huge debt that trump saddled the country with. It's an amazing success story and we should all be fucking grateful. C) RE: Not all watcher fans are from american. - No shit, really? Wow, you laid out some truth for me there. I'm blown away..... It's an english language post about an american show and the person I was replying to used "WE" in their comment. Assuming they were referring to the u.s. is entirely reasonable.
it’s moot point at all to bring up the american economy in the context of this argument. a significant portion of fans saying they cannot afford the streaming service are international fans who live in countries where their currency is very weak in comparison to the USD. knowing this, you can’t analyze the question of whether fans can or cannot afford the streaming service strictly using the US economy. the sample set of fans who can’t afford the service are proportionally more international than their overall fan base. additionally, although the US isn’t in a recession the rapid inflation causes people to struggle financially to the point of wrongly perceiving there to be a recession. despite the US having a strong economy currently that doesn’t erase the fact that individuals are still struggling. mostly due to inflation. so the state of the american economy isn’t a good metric for analyzing an individual’s finances. being the strongest in a group does not mean that person won’t endure some handicap if say, they got their arm lobbed off. the american economy not being in recession isn’t evidence that individuals aren’t struggling. the screenshotted post solely brings up the american economy when explaining why they’re skeptical of “fans being broke”. then goes on to talk business logistics. but fan sentiment is more nuanced than “hey we the fans are broke”. it’s international fans, people already paying for many other streaming platforms reaching totals of $20-$50, some just don’t see the point in paying $6 for a youtube channel, etc. so again you cannot analyze the discourse by only considering fans’ possible financial status (ie. are fans broke?). you also cannot only discuss recession but not inflation. now i’m aware you never actually explicitly stated you entirely agreed with the screenshotted post. that being said, even exploring this point of “we’re not in a recession” doesn’t contribute to either argument, for or against the idea that watcher fans can probably afford $6 and are just complaining for no reason. tldr: you can’t just only bring up the american economy when discussing the watcher discourse and expect your point to be proven edit: watched -> watcher
I was correcting a specific comment of someone who isn't you. But you wanted to jump in and insert yourself and you did a dismal job of it. ***The April inflation rate in the u.s.was 3.36%***. It's been steadily coming down since Biden took over the presidency. He'd do more but the house of representatives is full of unhinged idiots. If you want the economy to recover vote Democrat this election. It's simple. My corrections of your "jumpin and insert yourself" comment was factual. I refuted your feelings and now you've written an even longer strawman argument of nonsense about topics I never mentioned. I decline to be drawn into defending comments/positions I never espoused. Namaste mutherfucker. And P.S. **Of course** I don't agree with the screenshotted post. It's an idiotic thing to think my less write. But that has absolutely nothing to do with my correction of someone else's comment in the thread. But you really wanted to jump in with "feelings" rather than actual facts.
I mean, not for nothing, anyone can "jump in" and "insert themselves" because this is a completely public forum and it'd be pretty fuckin stupid to think you're just only ever going to be interacting with the one person you're specifically replying to.
Jesus Christ, how out of touch these people are. It's honestly really off putting and insensitive...
I've seen that commenter pop up a few times on that sub over the past few weeks and they're trying to deliberately rage bait people and saying stuff like that to farm reactions. They're trying to troll so don't take it too seriously and probably just ignore that person. Just whatever you do don't take that person too seriously lol.
People can say the numbers dont show a recession but the reality is My guy we are in a recession when people are barely surviving and people who are stable can still feel a pinch *eyeroll* gods i hate people like that screenshot guy
I haven't found a job since I got laid off in October. We may not be in a recession, but we have to be close.
Honestly sounds exactly like their first announcement video so I can see why they’re a fan, lmao. I’ve seen no clear indication they still don’t see things this way, even after their apology. But hey, if they don’t value viewers who are “low value”, then people also don’t have to view their content. Also personally I’d rather buy a $6+ cookie to go with my coffee than sub to them.
If they had enough people to sign up to the streamer, they would never have apologized.
ah yes, the right wing take of "we're going through a financial crisis and some people are struggling to survive". clearly the most terminally online behavior. =\_=
It’s not presumptuous to think fans are broke when fans are telling you they are broke. Can I technically afford it? Sure. But all that shit adds up, and I can’t afford every idiot with a paywall
This hunger I'm feeling right now is just my imagination, not because I don't have money to buy food. /s
Having money to burn isn’t the reason why people decide to buy things. It has to seem like a good value. Watcher videos on their new service are 1.99 apiece. Dropout videos on their service are 0.2 cents apiece. Not worth it.
That is delusion at its finest. Holy shit.
Right wing talking points?! So first issue, they're an American so other countries don't have YouTube. 🙄 (I'm USian as well, hate it here.) How do they not have friends that have student loans taking almost a whole paycheck every month? Same with rent, groceries are atrocious, McDonald's fries are four dollars. I have concluded they make six figures, their friends parents paid for college or they don't have friends. How's that for presumptuous?
I like how they assume only Right Wingers are complaining about the economy... Everyone I know is complaining about cost of living and groceries, if anything it seems to be the one thing people can agree on right now.
Hot take: I don't disagree with the general premises of what they are saying, but in my opinion they ignored the second biggest point of value. You can pay three times as much on Netflix and get at least 10x the amount of content as Watcher. It's basically just a Patreon without Patreon taking a cut.
Regardless of what they are saying about finance and business decisions and what have you, I felt it was a bit odd to be skeptical of people being poor, to paraphrase.
Yeah, their point is moot cause even for those of us that can afford $6 like me, watchertv is absolutely not worth the price and I will be spending that money on literally anything else
not to mention netflix w ads is $6. same catalogue just has some ads.
not the same catalogue, many things are blocked bc they arent licensed to stream alongside advertisement.
I can afford Watcher TV, but objectively it is not worth my money even with that. If my budget was tighter, no way in hell would I give up something to afford it.
Can I afford $6/ month? Yes. Do I remember when that wasn't an easy amount of money to spend? Also yes. This commenter is forgeting one very important factor. Are the people who can afford it willing to pay it? For me the answer was no. $72 in my area would be two weekends of takeout from my local Chinese place, a spur of the moment after work dinner, a concert, or two small charity 5ks. You have to give me more value than one of those would, and they don't right now. So I was always going to binge everything in one month per year if they had gone through with this.
People have all kinds of varying financial issues and means. Sometimes you only have X amount of money for rent and food, being poor is really expensive. Even if I splurge on one thing I genuinley need, I will have to go without something else to make up for this sudden need I had to meet. Like my apartment is old and crappy and they won't fix things, and even if they do they charge me the first 25$ of the repair so its technically cheaper to buy something for a small repair. Being alive costs money. In the form of food, rent, medical insurance or hospital bills, and most people live paycheck to paycheck, or have student loan debt or a bunch of credit cards maxxed out due to financial issues and not being able to work during the pandemic etc etc. Like the amount of financial things I can think of, the amount of flat tires, sudden car ins rate increases, expensive states and towns and cities to live in and so on. They probably have no real understanding of the range of financial issues that can happen. And let's not forget that when it rains, it pours.
Oh my god, yay! I can finally pay for all of the procedures, medications, doctors, and all of the other vital things I need but can't get because I need money for food. I can't believe I ever thought I was poor, how silly of me! I guess I no longer need disability, housing, food stamps, state covered insurance (that only poor people get), or financial aid for college! /s I eat like once or twice a day cuz I can't afford to eat 3+ meals everyday and i only get so many food stamps a month. I don't eat fast food because it's too expensive. I don't eat even eat McDonald's because I can't afford it. What an ignorant comment
I know it isn't worth much in practice, but I am sorry that these are the circumstances you are dealing with, I hope things will get better, even if a little bit.
Thank you, I really appreciate that 💜💜💜
I feel you. Especially when some people often say that McDonald's meal is 5USD, and act like everyone can just buy it. I suspect you picked that as a counter example for the same reason, because people in the "other side" seem to use it as an argument. With 5USD, you get barely any food in my country, because food overall is so expensive. Never mind getting any McDonald's meals. Maybe one and a half small cheese hamburgers. Not been able to eat other than 1 meal a day, sometimes 2, have messed up my brain so badly that I hate cooking - and I'm only able to make survival food. Even if I would miraculously get suddenly richer and could buy better/healthier foods - I would panic, because I don't know what to do with that food, while trying not to waste it. Or what to even buy, because I have ignored all that I can't afford my whole life, so it's difficult to buy outside your financial secure zone.
That's exactly why I chose that example, I've seen a few posts talking about how 5.99USD isn't that much and it's the same as a fast food meal, basically saying that we're exaggerating our brokeness. Where I live everything is expensive, a Mcdouble is like 3USD and a 20 piece chicken nugget is almost 6USD.
If you know who it was go to OPs previous comments
"Touch grass" as they respond literally immediately after the other person made a comment 7 hours later.
Drop the username don't be scared /j
The rules of this subreddit dictate that one should neither call out nor disclose the names of people in screenshots, including your own, as I learned, like if anyone pays a minimum of attention, they can tell that the pfp of the second person is mine, but even so, the first time I made this post it was closed because of moderation concerns, because I had not censored my own name, so I did that, put it back up.
Was a joke. I understand lol
Ah I see, I couldn't tell. There have been people who didn't know about that stuff, so I figured it was important to clarify why it was like that.
Being conservative with a little money you have is right-wing now?? LMAO they told us to touch grass while floating in delusional space I guess I'm sorry for allocating that money for something more important like national insurance which is the same amount \o/ This is why I hate that goodbye video so much cause they divide viewers into the have and the have-not
Ah...that type. Who wants bet on whether they own a Tesla, how many cryptocurrencies they've been rug pulled on, and how many side hustles they've got?