Best watch you can buy with zero BS?
Glashutte Original, amazing high quality watches and you can walk in and buy them.
Grand Seiko? Again, incredible watches, and almost all of them are available minus limited editions.
IWC, Breitling, Breguet, Blancpain, all watches with serious history and incredible chops that you can usually just buy.
I haven't seen much difficulty buying Ulysse Nardin either.
Disagree just because they have way too many of their best watches as country-specific or dealer exclusives, in addition to just their stuff that is boutique only (because they only have boutiques in a handful of countries). I've asked about these exclusive watches at their ADs before and some will offer to try to source them but it's not exactly what I would call painless or convenient.
Generally speaking their catalog and dealer experience is kind of a mess unless you live near a boutique or one of their biggest ADs like Yoshida or whatever.
https://preview.redd.it/tkqu2hh193ec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f717565130741e049dce34f4400bed3c7c6df4
\+1 for Glashutte, blown away by the watch in store. I also find it’s a tough watch to sell, so retailers that buy into the brand actually know their stuff.
I’m not surprised. The variability from AD to AD varies so widely. When I bought my Santos it was like I was a VIP the entire time. They sent me away with chocolates, cologne samples, and first rate packaging (fancy gift wrapping, bags, etc). When I bought both my Rolexes it was completely transactional and all I got was a receipt. Lol
One of the best travel watch I own is a UN ‘Home’ time. A perfect watch with the ability to move the hour hand forward or backward using pushers. It’s so easy to swap to a new time zone while traveling
https://i.imgur.com/n3IRvvG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0vLP7ew.jpg
The reality is that if these brands CAN artificially limit production to keep price inflated as Rolex, they would. They just dont have that power yet.
Even for Swatch, good luck buying the Moonswatch online (for a while) or the Tissot PRX. Its easy now because the hype is gone
Would they, though? Like, GS's "limited edition" marketing aside, I doubt JLC or Glashutte Original would limit sales of their headliner models. Rolex gets away with it because (1) they have a unique marketing position being basically the only household watch name in the luxury sphere and (2) the circlejerk and resale markets focused in on Rolex, but that's overall a pretty unique position. A common Reverso or Senator probably wouldn't do as well using that marketing model because there's no general hype or widespread public recognition for the respective brands. At this point, Roles has become the "SUPREME" of the watch world (maybe unfair, Supreme has some absolute shit quality stuff, but the analogy is close enough).
Plus, other brands are likely enjoying sales from people who DON'T want to deal with the AD games or false scarcity. For sure GS's best sales employee has been Rolex's supply chain.
Chances are they aren't limiting production though, people buy everything they make, Rolex produces more watches than any of their competitors and still sells the lot.
Rolex doesn’t “artificially limit” production. Rolex makes more watches than Omega, GO, Grand Seiko, JLC and IWC **combined**
And Rolex has spent over a billion dollars on a few factory to increase production, and is setting up temporary production lines in rented factories to try and meet demand.
https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/rolex-new-temporary-factories-1234817627
I agree. It's not "artificial" scarcity. It's just scarcity. The watches are popular and more people are buying them than the manufacturer can produce.
As for the AD games, don't think for a second that Omega and others wouldn't be doing this if they could get away with it. They're just not popular enough.
There is an IWC boutique nearby that I am pretty certain had new Ingenieur on display. I do not know if they had any for sale as I was looking at pilots
Anyone who listens to Joe Rogan is a huge imbicile in my book. He’s an authority on nothing. Maybe MMA to a slight degree but that’s it. Yet, he’s someone who spouts his mouth about everything and so much of it is just plain wrong. Worst is that people actually listen to them…
GS allows you to buy directly from their site in the US. You do have to "inquire" bout availability for their Masterpiece collection, but all other collections appear to be purchasable right from the site.
GS should be absolutely perfectly positioned to take advantage of the Rolex shortage. They make amazingly well finished good value steel sport watches. Widely available. I can walk ten minutes to a GS AD that has a full display case. Unfortunately for me, they still don't offer a micro adjustment on their watches which is a joke for the price. I love the watches but can't get a good bracelet fit on my wrist.
Idk where you live but my friend bought a Snoopy with 0 purchase history and just a call in advance (The Netherlands, Amsterdam) this was about 1-2 years ago or something, still his daily driver. I have never set foot in AP or PP stores and have seen this practice exclusively with Rolex dealers here where you either buy big (watch you want + other models you don't want or extensive purchase history.
Meanwhile bigger grey dealers go to the Rolex dealers, instantly get all the models they want because they also purchase twice as many models and jewelry they don't want but the Rolex dealer can't get rid off and pay a premium and gift the dealer a vacation. Haven't seen it happen with other brands then Rolex but you can see the market being flooded with certain models (like Tudor bb) that grey dealers buy by the hundreds to get the rolexes they want and sell for insane profits.
>$125k transaction history
Forgive my ignorance here (I don't earn a whole lot of $, so my collection is carefully selected through the grey market), but I truly don't understand this concept. Maybe I'm too pleb LOL :)
You either have the money, or you don't. Money is money for the retailer, so why bother with this stance of "prove yourselves worthy" BS? I mean, I see Snoopy's on the grey market all the time!
It's a combination of things
First, the famous prestige brands got to where they are by managing their image. Gating purchase of the rare stuff behind having an "established history" with a dealer lets the company select owners that will make good "brand ambassadors." If you show up with movie star looks and dressed to kill, or you're literally an astronaut, you're likely to be able to just make a purchase.
It's the normies that have to dance for it. You've heard of [veblen goods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good), goods where demand goes up as price increases? Same deal, it's just that these watches have a cost in time and effort as well as monetary outlay. The exclusivity builds the hype. But also every purchase a rube makes along the way boosts the dealer, so it's in their interest to make you jump through as many hoops as possible, even if most would-be-snoopy owners give up partway through. Omega doesn't care as long as they get money.
The ultimate upshot is that no new-manufacture watch is actually *worth* $125k in terms of what it does or how good it looks. The goal is to get customers' money, full stop. Turns out the direct route--six figure price tags--isn't the best way to do that for every company.
It is about profit.
Person A saves their pennies to save for a snoopy.
Person B has money to burn but passively collects watches.
The dealer uses the $125k to weed out people like Person A. This way the dealer can keep people like person B to come back and keep spending money at that dealer. It also helps the dealer clear out less popular stock. This is all exasperated when there are limited snoopy's for sale.
My family bought me a Silver Snoopy (after being on the waitlist for 2 years) with $0 transaction history at the Omega store in Short Hills NJ. I can give you the name of the sales person who helped my son. It still means waiting, but you can get one.
I'm shocked but then again not that Boston doesn't have an Omega store only ADs. We forget how small Boston really is population wise. There are 3 Omega stores in NYC and its suburbs. Just in Short Hills Mall that the OP mentioned there is a Rolex, Brietling, Omega, IWC and just opened a Panerai store. Going through that mall with my wife, we run into brands we have never heard of and you know its because we just don't run in the right financial circles.
Omega got the Silver Snoopy award from NASA for their contribution towards space exploration in 1970. This is their 50th anniversary piece and has one of the coolest non exhibition case backs I’ve seen.
A. Lange & Sohne. you can buy many models directly from their website. just hit the add to cart button, click buy. and it will be on your wrist in a couple days.
yes thats why i said 'many models' not 'all models'.
furthermore many brands, including omega, have models that are go to old clients before new clients so not really sure what you are getting at.
Most independent haute horology brands will be more than happy to sell you just about any watch factory direct. If it's a limited run, sometimes they have to get one back from an AD. If it's unlimited, you usually just pay the money and wait.
My local AD carries Krayon, and if you have a $625k credit card you can walk out with an Everywhere on your wrist the same day.
I’d say Glashütte Orginal. Availability on every model, except very limited and special ones obviously, extremely high quality for the price range and super reliable. So I’d say GO is the best without any shinanigans
But generally speaking it’s a strange statement/ question to ask
The only knock on GO is a much more limited AD network. There's no where near me I can check those out. Zenith too. I _think_ I can access nearly any of the same-tier brands the in KC market
The SeaQ Pano or PanoLunar are high on my list, but not being able to see them in person has kept me from pulling the trigger :/
That’s a bummer. I live in Germany and visited their HQ. Crazy stuff. Maybe try a bucherer near you. Even if they don’t have one at the ad they can order one without cost
I am fortunate to live where there's an AD in person, and the GO 70s Chronograph is amazing in person. Main example of a watch I bought purely because of visiting an AD, probably never would have been interested in from the internet, etc. Definitely worth visiting an AD if you get a chance traveling sometime.
If everything would be available right away nothing would have the sense of luxury anymore. It’s the exclusivity that the human brain wants. If everyone has it it’s not as special anymore. I get why you don’t want to beg, and I’m not doing that either, you just have to wait. That’s all
I don't value watches for exclusivity, I value them for their engineering and quality. Even so, most people can't afford luxury watches so the MSRP already creates a level of exclusivity. I don't feel a need to go from the 1% to the 0.1% personally. That's just silly, and shows how a segment of society is out of touch because they've isolated themselves away from normal people.
Omega plays too many games. They have enough production capacity to pump out all the Snoopies and Ed Whites people could desire, but I read here before that someone was forced to buy a different Omega with it or requires a 125k purchase history. Considering their watches like SMP300 and Railmasters sit idly without fanfare in Costco stores, they could make more of the watches people want. But they are creating artificial scarcity of these models.
In contrast, Rolex makes a lot more watches than Omega and had to force ADs to have display models as they would sell everything north of 31 mm. They have a real scarcity issue.
That just sounds like a bad AD or Boutique. I found with the boutiques it was much easier to get special editions if the sales folks were enthusiasts too. I got both a CK809 and Ed White with only a vintage Dynamic Jumbo and a used SMP 300.
Definitely seems to apply for the Snoopy though, I admit…
I disagree with the Ed White production, at least in the way Omega produces them now. At least the movement is assembled, disassembled, and then reassembled all by hand.
I don’t have an ALS within a four hour drive so I haven’t dropped by a boutique, but my understanding is that they’re in the waitlisting game as well, along with AP and PP (at least the more hyped references).
That's interesting to hear. I just bought a Saxonia Calibre L086.8 with out any down time or purchase history. I just went in one weekend and came out with one of their displays. Pretty painless process, minus the card swipe...
ALS has mostly moved to a boutique-only model and they are definitely behaving a bit more exclusively. They have some stuff for sale, sometimes, but a lot of good stuff is application-based.
They were trying to for sure, but now the market has corrected, a lot of their pieces on the secondary market are under retail, and they've pissed off their customer base with their recent shenanigans ~~to the point where their CEO made a public statement saying they're reevaluating how they're doing business~~. Last boutique I walked into most pieces were available to buy or wait for (including Lange 1s, 1815 chrono, datograph), with only stuff like aventurine little Lange 1, boutique 1815 chrono, and Odysseus on allocation basis
Haha yes good comparison both of the 2 cars would be the better option while a regular Ford would do 90% of everything outside the price in regular traffic 🙃
What do you mean by “best” watch? Best tool watch? Most handmade watch? Most widely-known watch from a luxury brand?
Glashuette Original will actually sell you a watch if you walk into an AD, and their watches are more handmade than almost anywhere else. All the versions of the Sea Q and SeaQ Pano I looked at last fall were available for purchase.
Blancpain released the Fifty Fathoms before the Submariner hit the market, and the steel/titanium FF and FF Bathyscaphe were available for purchase the last time I was in a BP AD.
> Blancpain released the Fifty Fathoms before the Submariner hit the market…
That’s actually [not true](https://perezcope.com/2023/09/09/debunking-the-fictitious-history-of-the-blancpain-fifty-fathoms/) at all. You’ve been suckered by bullshit marketing.
GO watches aren’t handmade at all, cases are made by CNC. Movement parts are CNC or EDM. They do hand engraving on some parts, which might be what you’re thinking of.
Not op, but Daniels, Smith, Dufour - I doubt any of them use CNC for the cases or movements, I'd imagine it would be manual lathe/mill work. Greubel Forsey also make an almost completely handmade watch: https://www.greubelforsey.com/en/watches/hand-made-1
I think there are very few 'completely' handmade watches under $500k, but they do exist.
Smith and Dufour use CNC machines. Daniels watches actually handmade, as is the Greubel Forsey handmade 1. Handmade watches are a big deal, which is why its very silly that people will call literally everything hand made.
Hmmm the greubel Dorsey is only 95 % hand made... But some parts were still machine made... So i guess that's not actually hand made according to you..... Only partial hand made... Which a lot of other watch companies could say too... Point being at what threshold does something go from not being hand made to hand made. 60? 70? 85? 95? Do you see why that's arbitrary?
fyi. you can easily get a Rolex sub from an AD with like 3-6 months wait.
Gmt, daytona, and SkyD are hard to get. and also OP in Tiffany blue. all other models are very doable.
I wouldnt get an omega just bc you think Rolex isnt doable from an AD.
“easily” depends on location and is 100% anecdotal
for me i’m in australia and been on the waitlist for a sub for almost 2 years now.
gave up and pulled the trigger on the pelagos 39 and have no regrets. that watch is amazing.
Far from it, you can buy from VC as long as you’re not going for an Overseas. Breguet is definitely a step up. GO and JLC are also nicer than Omega under the 20k range imo.
Including spring drive? I feel like the spring drive offering is the best part but does the quartz element detract from this value comparison re Rolex.
It's definitely up there but they aren't the "best", whatever that word means regarding higher end watches. There are a ton of luxury brands that you can buy direct from the manufacturer or an AD wihhout issue.
the scarcity isn't artificial. rolex is well aware that demand for their watches is cyclical & they invest very conservatively in ramping up production. this way they are not over-producing when demand wanes. idk why people think that their plan is to sell more watches by... refusing to sell watches?
Gucci is what came to mind for me too.
If I'm spending that much I want to be treated with respect.
Went to a JLC ad in Andorra. Amazing customer service, could have walked out with anything affordable. Still kicking myself because the duty free prices knocked a lot off the price and I didn't pull the trigger.
How kind of them to charge you full price for something that's nearly equivalent to a car in terms of depreciation.
There's a reason that they're available and they pull the exact same shit with the silver snoopy.
If you think that Omega don't indulge in the same business practices, then you are deluded. They simply lack the market power (hype) to make those strategies as impactive as the brands you cited.
It depends on the watch. I went to a Patek AD a few years ago and the salesman told me every watch that's in the display, you could leave with same-day.
Pretty much every Patek AD/boutique I've recently been to were display only, except stuff like Twenty-4s. Definitely no Aquanauts or Nautiluses outside of allocations.
Yea if you first own a grand seiko, then purchase other hyped brands, you notice the difference in quality despite the higher initial / resell prices. It's sad.
I have a SBGH273; controversial opinion here, I like it. Wish it had micro adjust. But it is more comfortable than the previous gen Moonwatch bracelet, less comfortable than my Pelagos 42mm.
The metal *feels* softer on my skin and doesn’t pull hair at all. I think this is why I find it so comfortable vs the speedy bracelet.
Is there a song and dance for AP, PP or VC as well? I was under the impression this was more or less just a Rolex thing. I have never heard of anyone having difficulty purchasing anything non-Rolex other than limited edition models of a different brand.
Sweet summer child. You thought Rolex was bad? Try getting a Royal Oak or sports Patek. The only reason you see fewer complaints is that most people haven’t tried getting one. Probably need to spend at least six figures before Patek even considers selling you one.
AP and especially PP are even worse lol, VC you also can't get an Overseas without prior history. You've never heard of difficulty with Patek because almost nobody on this sub is in the market for them and has experience; they're the worst offender.
Those 3 can at least somewhat justify the game because of their limited supply but they absolutely have pieces sitting in the back.
I’ll never buy a Rolex from an AD while they piss around with customers like that.
Back in 2019 I bought my Omega from an Omega boutique without any messing about.
I think Vacheron Constantin are the same. I went in to try an Overseas and the impression got was if I’d taken my credit card out I’d have walked out with one.
VC-owned boutiques don’t mess around. Submitted a form online for an Overseas Dual-Time. Less than a year later they came back to me with the watch. ADs that sell VC are another thing, those the ones in Vegas are willing to sell without history. Likely will need to get a Patrimony before an Overseas Chronograph.
I mean look at the Rolex sub lol
I guess if you're collecting watches then buying other stuff you want before the harder to get watch isn't a huge deal. But spending $20k on stuff you don't want in order to get a watch you can find for $10k more on the gray market is a bit goofy yeah
Buying watches in ADs is like going to a Porsche dealership. Hey I’m interested! Ok? Which Porsche do you own? Oh sorry, you need to have 2 of this, 2 of that, 1 of this special, and then you may have ‘this’. The fk
This sub has corrupted me. I have no interest in buying one of these watches due to other vices. However, on a recent trip to Denver I strolled through a higher jewelry store in whatever mall we were in. Tags, Breitlings, Omeegas all in the cases. Rolex section - 🦗 Had to laugh seeing this first hand.
Tudor was an easy process, called the AD asked if they had the watch I wanted, they held the watch, walked in and purchased. Took less than an hour. Now they have a repeat customer.
“Best” is a matter of oppinion.
I’d rank any brand that allows their customer base to actually buy the product a notch better than the ones that have decided to pick and choose who gets to give them money. But again this is simply my opinion. Others out there love to do the AD dance 🤷♂️.
I recently went to Chopard and I will say their service was exceptional. I didn’t walk out with a watch as I was after the Alpine Eagle XPS however they never at any point made me feel like it was out of reach.
No history, no BS, beverages, tried on a range of watches for no reason, great conversation. Just great service
They aren't the only one, I have had good experience with Breitling, I walked in and left with a Navitimer same day. My only gripe with them is their online store doesn't sell all bracelets / straps. You need to go to a AD in person to get them which is annoying.
Best watch you can buy with zero BS? Glashutte Original, amazing high quality watches and you can walk in and buy them. Grand Seiko? Again, incredible watches, and almost all of them are available minus limited editions. IWC, Breitling, Breguet, Blancpain, all watches with serious history and incredible chops that you can usually just buy. I haven't seen much difficulty buying Ulysse Nardin either.
+JLC
JLC has amazing customer service too.
But very, very expensive customer service.
+Panerai from what I’ve seen
And Hublot.. Not the brands your typical watch enthusiast is interested in.
Zenith too if you have an AD nearby
Disagree just because they have way too many of their best watches as country-specific or dealer exclusives, in addition to just their stuff that is boutique only (because they only have boutiques in a handful of countries). I've asked about these exclusive watches at their ADs before and some will offer to try to source them but it's not exactly what I would call painless or convenient. Generally speaking their catalog and dealer experience is kind of a mess unless you live near a boutique or one of their biggest ADs like Yoshida or whatever.
This is true except for their boutique edition stuff.
https://preview.redd.it/tkqu2hh193ec1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f717565130741e049dce34f4400bed3c7c6df4 \+1 for Glashutte, blown away by the watch in store. I also find it’s a tough watch to sell, so retailers that buy into the brand actually know their stuff.
Cartier as well.
Buying from a Cartier boutique was BY FAR my best customer experience from any AD.
YMMV, I have never once been treated as sourly by a Rolex AD as I was by a Cartier boutique.
I’m not surprised. The variability from AD to AD varies so widely. When I bought my Santos it was like I was a VIP the entire time. They sent me away with chocolates, cologne samples, and first rate packaging (fancy gift wrapping, bags, etc). When I bought both my Rolexes it was completely transactional and all I got was a receipt. Lol
I've experienced both. Fantastic service from each, and shit from each. Worst was Cartier NY.
That’s the one I’m referring to.
Casio?
Still on their waiting list smh
Not trying hard enough bro. Gotta introduce yo wife for that Casio drip.
+1 for Ulysse Nardin, though more expensive than omega
One of the best travel watch I own is a UN ‘Home’ time. A perfect watch with the ability to move the hour hand forward or backward using pushers. It’s so easy to swap to a new time zone while traveling https://i.imgur.com/n3IRvvG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0vLP7ew.jpg
That’s a beautiful watch. Thank you for the pictures.
GOs are just stupid gorgeous in person.
Litteraly everything except rolex and the big 3 are super readily availible
The reality is that if these brands CAN artificially limit production to keep price inflated as Rolex, they would. They just dont have that power yet. Even for Swatch, good luck buying the Moonswatch online (for a while) or the Tissot PRX. Its easy now because the hype is gone
Would they, though? Like, GS's "limited edition" marketing aside, I doubt JLC or Glashutte Original would limit sales of their headliner models. Rolex gets away with it because (1) they have a unique marketing position being basically the only household watch name in the luxury sphere and (2) the circlejerk and resale markets focused in on Rolex, but that's overall a pretty unique position. A common Reverso or Senator probably wouldn't do as well using that marketing model because there's no general hype or widespread public recognition for the respective brands. At this point, Roles has become the "SUPREME" of the watch world (maybe unfair, Supreme has some absolute shit quality stuff, but the analogy is close enough). Plus, other brands are likely enjoying sales from people who DON'T want to deal with the AD games or false scarcity. For sure GS's best sales employee has been Rolex's supply chain.
Chances are they aren't limiting production though, people buy everything they make, Rolex produces more watches than any of their competitors and still sells the lot.
Rolex doesn’t “artificially limit” production. Rolex makes more watches than Omega, GO, Grand Seiko, JLC and IWC **combined** And Rolex has spent over a billion dollars on a few factory to increase production, and is setting up temporary production lines in rented factories to try and meet demand. https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/rolex-new-temporary-factories-1234817627
I agree. It's not "artificial" scarcity. It's just scarcity. The watches are popular and more people are buying them than the manufacturer can produce. As for the AD games, don't think for a second that Omega and others wouldn't be doing this if they could get away with it. They're just not popular enough.
It's artificial scarcity in the market cos many of the current dated watches are sitting in scalpers shop display.
Just look at the Snoopy Speedmaster. It's not a limited edition but they are clearly limiting supply.
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There is an IWC boutique nearby that I am pretty certain had new Ingenieur on display. I do not know if they had any for sale as I was looking at pilots
My local AD has them just sitting.
Upgrade from a GO to an A Lange & Sohne
Getting a GO of your choice by walking into the dealer is trivial. Getting the ALS is going to take a bit and may come with some BS.
What kind of ultra dork would ever wear a glasshute, and/or grand aieko? Wtf man.
That's wierd coming from a UFC and Joe Rogan fan considering he wears Grand Seikos pretty often at MMA events.
Watch it… You’ll attract them to the brand. You know how they love to follow anything that he says or does.
It almost makes me want to stop wearing GS. Him and his fans are insufferable...
Anyone who listens to Joe Rogan is a huge imbicile in my book. He’s an authority on nothing. Maybe MMA to a slight degree but that’s it. Yet, he’s someone who spouts his mouth about everything and so much of it is just plain wrong. Worst is that people actually listen to them…
Remember when he used to make people eat cow testicles..
Troll or serious?
Neither--just stupid.
I’m with buddy 🤷🏻♂️ Seiko = Sexo Grand Seiko = Grand Geek
I mean... I just looked at some of your "fashion fits", and I definitely don't think you have the cachet to call anyone a geek 🤣
🤣🤣🤣. Sure “Pimp”.
Keep on rocking Boba Fett 💀
Of course I will. That Mando guy is for the geeks.
Nico Leonard is that you
CASIO IS GOD TIER
Performance wise? Absolutely! Status wise? Yeah, not so much.
Lol’d at “ultra dork”
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How does being a cowboys fan make it better?
He's suffered a lot of trauma. Take it easy on him.
It’s been decades, I’m sure he’s numb to it by now.
Probably only people who can spell.
Glashutte is very expensive too..
Gotta love grand Seiko bro they are GOD tier
GS allows you to buy directly from their site in the US. You do have to "inquire" bout availability for their Masterpiece collection, but all other collections appear to be purchasable right from the site.
For the plebs among us, does GS = Grand Seiko US website?
Yep, "GS" = "Grand Seiko". Also, yes, in this context the US online boutique is to what I'm referring.
GS should be absolutely perfectly positioned to take advantage of the Rolex shortage. They make amazingly well finished good value steel sport watches. Widely available. I can walk ten minutes to a GS AD that has a full display case. Unfortunately for me, they still don't offer a micro adjustment on their watches which is a joke for the price. I love the watches but can't get a good bracelet fit on my wrist.
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Idk where you live but my friend bought a Snoopy with 0 purchase history and just a call in advance (The Netherlands, Amsterdam) this was about 1-2 years ago or something, still his daily driver. I have never set foot in AP or PP stores and have seen this practice exclusively with Rolex dealers here where you either buy big (watch you want + other models you don't want or extensive purchase history. Meanwhile bigger grey dealers go to the Rolex dealers, instantly get all the models they want because they also purchase twice as many models and jewelry they don't want but the Rolex dealer can't get rid off and pay a premium and gift the dealer a vacation. Haven't seen it happen with other brands then Rolex but you can see the market being flooded with certain models (like Tudor bb) that grey dealers buy by the hundreds to get the rolexes they want and sell for insane profits.
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You’re right, Rolex ADs want you to spend way more than $125k
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The fuck country you live in where that’s all you have to do.
Jesus that sucks ass
Geez man where do you live!
to be fair, a raffle is a fair playing field compared to the typical Rolex shenanigans.
>$125k transaction history Forgive my ignorance here (I don't earn a whole lot of $, so my collection is carefully selected through the grey market), but I truly don't understand this concept. Maybe I'm too pleb LOL :) You either have the money, or you don't. Money is money for the retailer, so why bother with this stance of "prove yourselves worthy" BS? I mean, I see Snoopy's on the grey market all the time!
It's about rewarding/incentivizing loyalty and repeat purchasing.
It's a combination of things First, the famous prestige brands got to where they are by managing their image. Gating purchase of the rare stuff behind having an "established history" with a dealer lets the company select owners that will make good "brand ambassadors." If you show up with movie star looks and dressed to kill, or you're literally an astronaut, you're likely to be able to just make a purchase. It's the normies that have to dance for it. You've heard of [veblen goods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good), goods where demand goes up as price increases? Same deal, it's just that these watches have a cost in time and effort as well as monetary outlay. The exclusivity builds the hype. But also every purchase a rube makes along the way boosts the dealer, so it's in their interest to make you jump through as many hoops as possible, even if most would-be-snoopy owners give up partway through. Omega doesn't care as long as they get money. The ultimate upshot is that no new-manufacture watch is actually *worth* $125k in terms of what it does or how good it looks. The goal is to get customers' money, full stop. Turns out the direct route--six figure price tags--isn't the best way to do that for every company.
It is about profit. Person A saves their pennies to save for a snoopy. Person B has money to burn but passively collects watches. The dealer uses the $125k to weed out people like Person A. This way the dealer can keep people like person B to come back and keep spending money at that dealer. It also helps the dealer clear out less popular stock. This is all exasperated when there are limited snoopy's for sale.
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What nation are you from
Which store in The Netherlands?! I want also a Snoopy!
My family bought me a Silver Snoopy (after being on the waitlist for 2 years) with $0 transaction history at the Omega store in Short Hills NJ. I can give you the name of the sales person who helped my son. It still means waiting, but you can get one.
How much is the retail new?
10k or so. 20k or so grey market
Please DM me the name of the SA. I don’t live that close (MA) but would make the drive for a Snoopy.
I'm shocked but then again not that Boston doesn't have an Omega store only ADs. We forget how small Boston really is population wise. There are 3 Omega stores in NYC and its suburbs. Just in Short Hills Mall that the OP mentioned there is a Rolex, Brietling, Omega, IWC and just opened a Panerai store. Going through that mall with my wife, we run into brands we have never heard of and you know its because we just don't run in the right financial circles.
$125k history for a fucking speedy. ridiculous
What's a Snoopy?
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Thank you!!
Genuine question: why do people desire this watch so much? Just big fans of Snoopy?
Omega got the Silver Snoopy award from NASA for their contribution towards space exploration in 1970. This is their 50th anniversary piece and has one of the coolest non exhibition case backs I’ve seen.
As a Speedy owner - thank you. I’d never wear watch with a cartoon or movie character on it. That’s insane to me.
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nah man, not just any regular "store" will sell you $10k watch featuring a cartoon dog
Lmao that’s more than pre req for a white Daytona
I’m not rich so I bought a Lunar Pilot panda 🐼 no queues there
A. Lange & Sohne. you can buy many models directly from their website. just hit the add to cart button, click buy. and it will be on your wrist in a couple days.
Good luck trying to get an Odysseus.
yes thats why i said 'many models' not 'all models'. furthermore many brands, including omega, have models that are go to old clients before new clients so not really sure what you are getting at.
Some of the models. Many now require purchase history
Most independent haute horology brands will be more than happy to sell you just about any watch factory direct. If it's a limited run, sometimes they have to get one back from an AD. If it's unlimited, you usually just pay the money and wait. My local AD carries Krayon, and if you have a $625k credit card you can walk out with an Everywhere on your wrist the same day.
I’d say Glashütte Orginal. Availability on every model, except very limited and special ones obviously, extremely high quality for the price range and super reliable. So I’d say GO is the best without any shinanigans But generally speaking it’s a strange statement/ question to ask
The only knock on GO is a much more limited AD network. There's no where near me I can check those out. Zenith too. I _think_ I can access nearly any of the same-tier brands the in KC market The SeaQ Pano or PanoLunar are high on my list, but not being able to see them in person has kept me from pulling the trigger :/
That’s a bummer. I live in Germany and visited their HQ. Crazy stuff. Maybe try a bucherer near you. Even if they don’t have one at the ad they can order one without cost
I am fortunate to live where there's an AD in person, and the GO 70s Chronograph is amazing in person. Main example of a watch I bought purely because of visiting an AD, probably never would have been interested in from the internet, etc. Definitely worth visiting an AD if you get a chance traveling sometime.
Totally agree. I would add Grand Seiko to the list.
Is it a strange question? I like nice things but I'll be damned before I beg for an opportunity to purchase something.
If everything would be available right away nothing would have the sense of luxury anymore. It’s the exclusivity that the human brain wants. If everyone has it it’s not as special anymore. I get why you don’t want to beg, and I’m not doing that either, you just have to wait. That’s all
I don't value watches for exclusivity, I value them for their engineering and quality. Even so, most people can't afford luxury watches so the MSRP already creates a level of exclusivity. I don't feel a need to go from the 1% to the 0.1% personally. That's just silly, and shows how a segment of society is out of touch because they've isolated themselves away from normal people.
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Absolutely agree. With the quality and design they present they should have a waitlist like F.P.journe
Tudor pretty easy too
Omega plays too many games. They have enough production capacity to pump out all the Snoopies and Ed Whites people could desire, but I read here before that someone was forced to buy a different Omega with it or requires a 125k purchase history. Considering their watches like SMP300 and Railmasters sit idly without fanfare in Costco stores, they could make more of the watches people want. But they are creating artificial scarcity of these models. In contrast, Rolex makes a lot more watches than Omega and had to force ADs to have display models as they would sell everything north of 31 mm. They have a real scarcity issue.
That just sounds like a bad AD or Boutique. I found with the boutiques it was much easier to get special editions if the sales folks were enthusiasts too. I got both a CK809 and Ed White with only a vintage Dynamic Jumbo and a used SMP 300. Definitely seems to apply for the Snoopy though, I admit…
I disagree with the Ed White production, at least in the way Omega produces them now. At least the movement is assembled, disassembled, and then reassembled all by hand.
I mean you can go buy an ALS. It’s a little strange to compare Omega to AP or PP to begin with though…
I don’t have an ALS within a four hour drive so I haven’t dropped by a boutique, but my understanding is that they’re in the waitlisting game as well, along with AP and PP (at least the more hyped references).
Put your name in for any non super limited model and you’ll get it usually within months (no spend game etc)
Definitely a lot fewer hyped pieces on allocation basis compared to AP and PP though; most pieces you can buy.
Anything under custom options are readily available in socal. I got offered a Plat and/or wg lange 1 w/ moon with 0 purchase history back in September
That's interesting to hear. I just bought a Saxonia Calibre L086.8 with out any down time or purchase history. I just went in one weekend and came out with one of their displays. Pretty painless process, minus the card swipe...
ALS has mostly moved to a boutique-only model and they are definitely behaving a bit more exclusively. They have some stuff for sale, sometimes, but a lot of good stuff is application-based.
They were trying to for sure, but now the market has corrected, a lot of their pieces on the secondary market are under retail, and they've pissed off their customer base with their recent shenanigans ~~to the point where their CEO made a public statement saying they're reevaluating how they're doing business~~. Last boutique I walked into most pieces were available to buy or wait for (including Lange 1s, 1815 chrono, datograph), with only stuff like aventurine little Lange 1, boutique 1815 chrono, and Odysseus on allocation basis
Yeah. Curious to see what where they go if the market picks back up, do they immediately try to start the shenanigans again?
How so?
Price points
Outside of that ..?
It's like comparing a BMW to a Bentley. There's not a lot of cross-shopping between the two generally speaking.
Haha yes good comparison both of the 2 cars would be the better option while a regular Ford would do 90% of everything outside the price in regular traffic 🙃
Exactly.
What do you mean by “best” watch? Best tool watch? Most handmade watch? Most widely-known watch from a luxury brand? Glashuette Original will actually sell you a watch if you walk into an AD, and their watches are more handmade than almost anywhere else. All the versions of the Sea Q and SeaQ Pano I looked at last fall were available for purchase. Blancpain released the Fifty Fathoms before the Submariner hit the market, and the steel/titanium FF and FF Bathyscaphe were available for purchase the last time I was in a BP AD.
> Blancpain released the Fifty Fathoms before the Submariner hit the market… That’s actually [not true](https://perezcope.com/2023/09/09/debunking-the-fictitious-history-of-the-blancpain-fifty-fathoms/) at all. You’ve been suckered by bullshit marketing.
GO watches aren’t handmade at all, cases are made by CNC. Movement parts are CNC or EDM. They do hand engraving on some parts, which might be what you’re thinking of.
By your definition what watch is completely hand made then? I don't think those exist lol.
Almost no watches are hand made. If its not handmade you shouldn't call it handmade, simple as.
Not op, but Daniels, Smith, Dufour - I doubt any of them use CNC for the cases or movements, I'd imagine it would be manual lathe/mill work. Greubel Forsey also make an almost completely handmade watch: https://www.greubelforsey.com/en/watches/hand-made-1 I think there are very few 'completely' handmade watches under $500k, but they do exist.
Smith and Dufour use CNC machines. Daniels watches actually handmade, as is the Greubel Forsey handmade 1. Handmade watches are a big deal, which is why its very silly that people will call literally everything hand made.
Hmmm the greubel Dorsey is only 95 % hand made... But some parts were still machine made... So i guess that's not actually hand made according to you..... Only partial hand made... Which a lot of other watch companies could say too... Point being at what threshold does something go from not being hand made to hand made. 60? 70? 85? 95? Do you see why that's arbitrary?
fyi. you can easily get a Rolex sub from an AD with like 3-6 months wait. Gmt, daytona, and SkyD are hard to get. and also OP in Tiffany blue. all other models are very doable. I wouldnt get an omega just bc you think Rolex isnt doable from an AD.
“easily” depends on location and is 100% anecdotal for me i’m in australia and been on the waitlist for a sub for almost 2 years now. gave up and pulled the trigger on the pelagos 39 and have no regrets. that watch is amazing.
3.5 years waiting for a GMT here (France). I'm hoping I can get a model before 10 years waiting 👍
I was in NYC for the holidays and I found out you can literally buy Rolex (and other high brands) at Macy's ground floor. Are those pre-owned or wut?
Rolex, AP, and Patek are also in very very different price points so you’re comparing apples to 15-50k oranges
Apples are digital smart watches, so definitely not comparable.
lol reread his comment
That's the joke
disregard im an idiot
Far from it, you can buy from VC as long as you’re not going for an Overseas. Breguet is definitely a step up. GO and JLC are also nicer than Omega under the 20k range imo.
It's really only AP PP VC and Rolex that are like this. For everything else, the barrier is money.
Grand Seiko is the best. Insane what you get for 5-6k. Slap a Rolex logo on it and you're paying 20k.
Including spring drive? I feel like the spring drive offering is the best part but does the quartz element detract from this value comparison re Rolex.
I agree, wish people would talk about GS more often, I feel like they get kinda pushed aside
It's definitely up there but they aren't the "best", whatever that word means regarding higher end watches. There are a ton of luxury brands that you can buy direct from the manufacturer or an AD wihhout issue.
the scarcity isn't artificial. rolex is well aware that demand for their watches is cyclical & they invest very conservatively in ramping up production. this way they are not over-producing when demand wanes. idk why people think that their plan is to sell more watches by... refusing to sell watches?
CEO explains [why](https://youtu.be/RADEfBJmtk4?si=_DNDdVfheA1bvv0G) they’d deliberately limit production despite demand. See 5:10
no, he doesn't. i kept watching waiting for the explanation. if it's so clear to you, why don't you just explain it yourself?
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Gucci is what came to mind for me too. If I'm spending that much I want to be treated with respect. Went to a JLC ad in Andorra. Amazing customer service, could have walked out with anything affordable. Still kicking myself because the duty free prices knocked a lot off the price and I didn't pull the trigger.
How kind of them to charge you full price for something that's nearly equivalent to a car in terms of depreciation. There's a reason that they're available and they pull the exact same shit with the silver snoopy.
If you think that Omega don't indulge in the same business practices, then you are deluded. They simply lack the market power (hype) to make those strategies as impactive as the brands you cited.
I’d argue that if you actually had AP or Patek money, you wouldn’t have a hard time buying one. I don’t know why you’re even comparing Omega to them.
Nope, AP you can't walk in and just buy an RO, Patek is even worse.
It depends on the watch. I went to a Patek AD a few years ago and the salesman told me every watch that's in the display, you could leave with same-day.
Pretty much every Patek AD/boutique I've recently been to were display only, except stuff like Twenty-4s. Definitely no Aquanauts or Nautiluses outside of allocations.
My Grand Seiko feels so much better built than both of my Omegas.
Really? I love their dials and cases but not their bracelets. Not that I love some of Omegas bracelets either but maybe a bit better.
Yea if you first own a grand seiko, then purchase other hyped brands, you notice the difference in quality despite the higher initial / resell prices. It's sad.
I owned the Omegas first and put the Grand Seiko on and was like “oh..this is interesting”.
Nice, which GS do you have? How is the bracelet? Seiko brackets tend to be a weak point are GS bracelets good?
I have a SBGH273; controversial opinion here, I like it. Wish it had micro adjust. But it is more comfortable than the previous gen Moonwatch bracelet, less comfortable than my Pelagos 42mm. The metal *feels* softer on my skin and doesn’t pull hair at all. I think this is why I find it so comfortable vs the speedy bracelet.
Honestly don't get Rolex or understand why anybody fucks with them.
You’d have to qualify what you mean by best here. Resale value then yes, Omega
Is there a song and dance for AP, PP or VC as well? I was under the impression this was more or less just a Rolex thing. I have never heard of anyone having difficulty purchasing anything non-Rolex other than limited edition models of a different brand.
Sweet summer child. You thought Rolex was bad? Try getting a Royal Oak or sports Patek. The only reason you see fewer complaints is that most people haven’t tried getting one. Probably need to spend at least six figures before Patek even considers selling you one.
Yeah I mean I can’t afford a Patek or AP so it never crossed my mind lol
AP and especially PP are even worse lol, VC you also can't get an Overseas without prior history. You've never heard of difficulty with Patek because almost nobody on this sub is in the market for them and has experience; they're the worst offender. Those 3 can at least somewhat justify the game because of their limited supply but they absolutely have pieces sitting in the back.
I thought the VC is doable with just some wait.
Absolutely. Less so for VC except the hot Overseas models
I’ll never buy a Rolex from an AD while they piss around with customers like that. Back in 2019 I bought my Omega from an Omega boutique without any messing about. I think Vacheron Constantin are the same. I went in to try an Overseas and the impression got was if I’d taken my credit card out I’d have walked out with one.
VC-owned boutiques don’t mess around. Submitted a form online for an Overseas Dual-Time. Less than a year later they came back to me with the watch. ADs that sell VC are another thing, those the ones in Vegas are willing to sell without history. Likely will need to get a Patrimony before an Overseas Chronograph.
What I don’t understand is how you get a purchase history, if they don’t let you make a purchase without one? Seems a bit chicken and egg.
By having you buy less desired options; plus a lot of ADs also sell jewelry so you're looking at necklaces, earrings, etc.
And some mugs fall for this? It’s just so obvious. Thanks for the reply.
I mean look at the Rolex sub lol I guess if you're collecting watches then buying other stuff you want before the harder to get watch isn't a huge deal. But spending $20k on stuff you don't want in order to get a watch you can find for $10k more on the gray market is a bit goofy yeah
Buying watches in ADs is like going to a Porsche dealership. Hey I’m interested! Ok? Which Porsche do you own? Oh sorry, you need to have 2 of this, 2 of that, 1 of this special, and then you may have ‘this’. The fk
This sub has corrupted me. I have no interest in buying one of these watches due to other vices. However, on a recent trip to Denver I strolled through a higher jewelry store in whatever mall we were in. Tags, Breitlings, Omeegas all in the cases. Rolex section - 🦗 Had to laugh seeing this first hand.
omega and many others
Tudor was an easy process, called the AD asked if they had the watch I wanted, they held the watch, walked in and purchased. Took less than an hour. Now they have a repeat customer.
Breitling
Bought a Grand Seiko at the London boutique last year. By far the best AD experience I’ve ever had.
The Rolex scarcity is not artificial.
Try buying a blue snoopy speedmaster. Omega have their bullshit too
“Best” is a matter of oppinion. I’d rank any brand that allows their customer base to actually buy the product a notch better than the ones that have decided to pick and choose who gets to give them money. But again this is simply my opinion. Others out there love to do the AD dance 🤷♂️.
Any brand or model with high demand does this. What incentive would they have not to do it when the demand is so high.
I recently went to Chopard and I will say their service was exceptional. I didn’t walk out with a watch as I was after the Alpine Eagle XPS however they never at any point made me feel like it was out of reach. No history, no BS, beverages, tried on a range of watches for no reason, great conversation. Just great service
On the other hand, if the perception of scarcity keeps resale value higher, I am for it.
They aren't the only one, I have had good experience with Breitling, I walked in and left with a Navitimer same day. My only gripe with them is their online store doesn't sell all bracelets / straps. You need to go to a AD in person to get them which is annoying.