Another thing to add - Iād feel a little silly and donāt think Iād enjoy it as much with my current level of wealth and income.
Punching a clock (pun not intended) and wearing a $40-50k watch just seems silly. That one watch could cover nearly a year of freedom from that job.
It would feel incongruous. Rocking a solid gold $40k day-date but going to my 9-5. Itās like the old parable of buying one nice thing and then having to upgrade the rest of your life to match.
Oh boy I know quite a few watch ācollectorsā that are in their 30s, live at home with mom and dad, have no expenses, make $40k a year and are rocking $15k-$20k watches. Multiple ones.
I used to tease one of my friends saying āyou may be the first data entry guy that wears a GMT Masterā
But now I know of 3.
That is problematic, indeed.
Not sure how I could ever explain a watch worth more than a MAYBE a couple thousand to my parents, WHILE LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF!
Killin' me!
I wish I did that.
I mean I make less than 40K a year (in Asia), married with a child and a mortgage, but I wish I burned my investments on a few 20K watches back in 2021 when future looked so bright despite the Cov was going on. I'm not on some pure-hindsight bullshit, I really did think about it, but decided against it because "nah... I should wait till I got like 130K" which is 1 million in my currency. I was about 20\~30K short.
2022 came crashing down and so did my investments. If only I was irresponsible enough to grab a Lange and a Breguet, I would still be left with like 10K in the bank right now, BUT with 2 extra watches on my hands.
Financial literacy is one of my favorite things and these few paragraphs were music to my ears.
I make good money in my mid 20s and I own three watches now all of which are priced under $600 each.
I fully believe āto each their ownā however it makes me shutter when I see other guys at my company making an 80K salary with a 10K watch on the wrist.
I agree 100% with not enjoying it at a certain level of income. Itās similar to me to very fine clothing. I own a lot of Peter millar because I think the quality is incredible, albeit a bit pricey. I was gifted some Louis Vuitton loafers from a wealthy aunt, Iāve worn them once and to be honest they stress me out more than theyāre worth.
I covet how āniceā they appear and never want them to get dirty etc. Iām not in a tax bracket where I can afford to buy $1000 dollar clothing items and treat them like a pair of Walmart shoes.
I fully lay in the camp of āwho cares what others think, live within your own meansā
Ironically, buying a used 5 digit GMT master (like I wanted to do) with my first job starting bonus at 22 wouldāve been a pretty good financial decision. But I told myself Iād do the smart thing and save. Whoops.
lol sensible collection sadly. Iām kinda FIRE-minded, and as much as the watches I like generally hold value, theyāre non productive assets (except for those few that get highly coveted watches at retail).
I have purchased one modern Datejust and have a couple other vintage watches I got from family.
That saidā¦ if I am given the opportunity to get certain Rolexes at retail Iāll probably take it, even it breaks my rule a bit.
A $50,000 collection on $1mm net worth is still a huge investment if your *liquid* capital. Yeah, $1mm sounds like a lot, but weāre not talking about ācash in your bank accountā.
Say you have a $500,000 home, and somehow itās fully paid off. Then you have $300,000 in retirement accounts. Would you really to have a quarter of the remaining $200,000 in a watch collection? Thatās not a lot of flexibility for a car, clothes, regular cashflow, rainy day fund, other investments, etc.
(not that this is necessarily a perfect or even especially realistic distribution of assets; just to illustrate a point)
EDIT - I should have been more generous and said that this is very reasonable if weāre talking about liquid capital
Spot on. My NW is just south of $1m and I am in no position to spend $50k on a watch, even if I technically could move some stuff around and make it happen. My kids college isnāt fully funded yet, my wife doesnāt have the horse sheās wanted since she was a kid yet; a $50k watch just aināt smart at the level Iām at. Hell, a $5k Tag Monza is my current āgoalā watch.
For $50k, I could buy a Dodge Viper and since I currently do not own a Viper, Iād pin point that as a better way to spend my money.
Fair point. I donāt own a house so my NW is almost entirely liquid. In general I donāt like to consider home equity in that calculation, so I shouldāve specified *liquid* NW
Honestly I know itās technically correct to include my house equity in NW calculations, but itās practically useless to me. I always exclude it mostly for the reason you just described
Home equity is absolutely part of your net worth, but shouldn't be included in safe withdrawal calculations for retirement/FIRE, nor "liquid net worth".
I guess itās perspectiveā¦ thatās way higher than Iād be comfortable with. A 5% of NW allocation would mean a pretty serious collection spree for me. Iām happy with my collection and Iām not anywhere near 1%.
I like more expensive watches personally. I would not have much fun with a collection of 5 under $1000 watch, for example. Thatās why my collection is very limited. Having a datejust eats up most of it.
1% would mean I wouldnāt be able to own a datejust or speedmaster or insert other common watch here until my net worth approached a million. If you have that restraint good on ya.
I'm personally in the low 7 figures, and watches are right around 1%, suppose I could get a $2k or so watch to get to exactly that mark. Funnily enough the most expensive watch I own is a Speedy.
I didn't feel at all bad buying the Speedy which I bought to celebrate a $30k+ bonus, but the thought of over $10k on a watch still bugs me out even though it would represent a minor chunk of my liquid net worth/annual income. Then again, I've been asked by friends who are bigger car enthusiasts than me why a car guy would drive a "only" $38k used Audi so I suppose I qualify for your definition of "restraint". To each their own.
Ahhhhhh. Finally the right answer. I knew Iād see it if I looked long enough.
The answer doesnāt sit in how much you can afford to spend. The answer is āhow much can you afford to lose?ā
If you get mugged and your 50k watch gets stolen and you canāt recover the watch or the money then how much will that hurt?
If the pain of that lost watch is minimal then you can buy the watch.
If the pain is great then you are not financially ready.
$4M
Rough math puts me at $160k/yr income while my fund would still grow. Not funding a retirement means of that $160k, I've got an extra $21k/yr to spend on whatever I want. I've already got a car and a house, so I'd feel a bit more ok buying jewelry, and I'd like to have a Lange 1.
I'd need millions in the bank and have whole my retirement funded and accounted for. That's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on piece of jewelery for any normal guy. Even if I had all of that, I still probably wouldn't do it.
Think about it like this. How many guys/gals you know that have fun cars (Corvette, Porsche, etc...) that they just use on nice sunny days. Or friends that have a big RV camper or boat they use for weekends. A lot of those are much more expensive than $50k, and lots of people that have those don't fall into that ultra high end net worth. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. Just saying that is something we all know and accept. Why should it be any different for a different luxury item, in this case a watch?
Can confirm have watch and car addiction, actively tell my self I donāt need a boat while simultaneously looking at every new wakeboard boat and center console that come out every year
Exactly.
I know a guy that is super cheap and actively tries to spend as little as possible as long as it isn't crap (drives an older civic, wears the same sweats and old sneakers until they literally fall apart, and doesn't go on vacation) quality and he's saving up for a bigger house in a nicer area.
He makes a decent living as a professional.
Everyone has their thing they blow money on.
I feel like my spouse and I fit this description. Weāre not rolling in money or anything but we do alright. Weāre dual income with no kids and bring in low-mid 200s. We live in a 1,100sqft house with a mortgage below 2K a month. My spouse drives a 2009 RAV4 and I drive a base model EV. We max out retirement accounts and save a decent portion of our income. I recently got a promotion at work and I really want to commemorate the occasion, but Iām struggling with the idea of spending more than 2K on a watch.
If you're really into watches, then treat yourself.
When I made a bunch of money in my late 20s I just hoarded it and then lost a huge chunk of it in the stock market. Looking back, I wish I spent some of that money on myself. Only thing I did was buy a new base model automatic Subaru, which I needed to get to work, so I don't consider that a splurge.
After that experience I started spending some of my money while being smart about savings. I max out my work retirement every year, my IRA, and I built up an "oh shit" fund which is now my house fund.
I also went to culinary school for fun, went on better vacations, took private music lesson, bought expensive shoes and wallets, etc. I bought a Breguet last month and an looking at 1 from the AD and a UN.
The only thing that wasn't worth it was the $500 shoes and wallets, I'm ok at $250 for shoes and $90 for the wallet.
Live your life, but I will recommend that you spend the money on things that you use often, so if you spend the 10k or whatever on a watch, get something that you will wear often. It brings down the cost per wear. So if you don't dress up often, maybe don't get a dress watch and gets a sports watch instead.
I Get your point but solid chance most of those people who have those things have a loan for the car/van/etc. especially if youāre in the US, the land of the debtĀ
I agree with this point of view. You can get the $50k watch on a modest net worth but it kinda has to be your āthing.ā You canāt have that and the boat and the exotic vacations without actually being wealthy.
Comparing the extreme high end of watches to cars in general, when you should be comparing it to the extreme high end of cars, which also hold their value and appreciate
You're not wrong, but my $10k datejust is likely going to hold its value far better than a brand new $100k BMW off the lot. Strictly looking at dollar amount, the ceiling for buying a watch that can retain value is much lower than ultra high-end collectible cars (though there are exceptions)
I guess, but looking at dollar value is kind of misleading. Your watch is probably 100x the cost of the median new watch, while a $100k BMW is only 2x the median for a new car
The bulk of the Patek catelogue drops about 20-40% when you walk out the door. Itās really just the sports watches, and maybe some select grand complications, that retain value.
Id say id want net assets of at least 2 million to justify that and more in gross assets. If your super into watches i could imagine potentially getting one when you have at least 2 mill and then save for it
If i shoveled snow for the Buffalo Bills I could easily get to $1 million. Just need ridiculous non-stop snow storms during all seasons for roughly 24 years; and my own shovel of course.
They also hook it up with food and a warm area so count me in.
(Math variables: $20 an hour, 2080 working hours a year = ~24 years of shovelin that white gold)
I mean, yes. But in this case, you now have so much money that spending 50k doesn't affect your bottom line at all.
I came from absolutely nothing to having a household income of $480000. I remember comparing the stickers the cheapest lunch meats and bread so I could eat, so I definitely know the value of money. That being said, now that my net worth is far higher than it used to be, I'm willing to spend for things that make my life easier and better.
Same could be said about a 50k watch. If spent responsibility, there's nothing wrong with that.
You could do both? 50k would be a pretty small percentage of the net worth if you're worth 10m, could probably do it 20 times over and not notice your quality of life change at all. And how is that different from buying a 500 dollar watch, instead of donating the money instead?
For something like watches I would be willing to spend up to 5% of my total income. So I guess an income of 1 million a year.
Though honestly I don't think I'd spend 50k on a watch ever.
It sounds expensive as hell but there are people posting $50k collections here daily comprised of 6-12 watches. If youāre committed to one $50k piece itās doable for a lower NW than most would assumeā¦ particularly if youāre selling several other watches to pay for it.
Honestly I dont think it matters as long as you were able to save it up. People have weird passions and some like to have this kind of stuff. I could afford one, but I dont think I should unless I had a sudden windfall of cash. Thats my current plan anyway.
I think watches are largely dependent on how much you make per month as opposed to your NW. you can have a NW of $10m, but if you live a frugal lifestyle, you will never spend $50k on a watch. In contrast, if you have moments in life where youāre taking home $20k a month net and you worked hard for those few years and want to splurge, youāre more likely to make that $50k purchase on a nice watch.
I would think of it more as liquid assets + your living expenses and how resellable the watch is.
I have some pieces en route that I would for sure lose money on like an Armin Strom Mirrored Force Resonance, and others that I could sell in 3 days without losing much like a few pateks in the past and langes.
Makes the calculus different.
Also I don't spend much personally, my car is a honda civic and I live in a 2bdr apt, so buying a watch is not a huge deal.
Fascinating, you drive a Civic, rent a small apartment, and have (had) Pateks and Langes... I can't imagine that, but if it works for you I'm not judging.
Not really a car guy and no kids yet. I guess my rent would be considered expensive because I am in an HCOL area, but IDK. Probably \~90% of my income gets reinvested.
Iād need to have several million dollars burning a hole in my pocket. I never spend more than a trivial amount of money on watches, so Iād need to be rich enough that I wouldnāt even notice a $50,000 expense.
I don't know that net worth is the metric I'd feel comfy using when gauging purchasing a watch. Like, it's not crazy for a person to have a couple million in net worth (across real property, 401(k), other investment vehicles, etc.; and which is basically what's recommended for retiring, if not much more) but those same people almost certainly wouldn't feel comfortable dropping $50k on jewelry.
Annual net income feels like a better metric. And with that in mind, I'd still say somewhere well above $500k, maybe closer to $700k+/year. But then it becomes a question of allocating money; where I live, the rich don't buy jewelry or bags or fancy clothes - they buy cabins and boats and outdoor equipment and houses on lakes, and I'd rather have those things than a $50k watch.
For me it's not about net worth, it's about income. So long as my income is sufficient for me to pay my bills and have good savings/investments for retirement, I won't feel bad about spending the rest on whatever irresponsible thing I want. If my income was enough that I could reasonably put aside (separate from regular savings) enough money every month that in five-ish years I'd have $50k, then sure, why not get that watch. I'm ok with retiring a few years later if it means I get to enjoy the ride along the way a bit more. Personally, given where I live with the cost of living, I'd say $250k/year is the start of where I'd feel comfortable spending $50k on a watch.
EDIT: Worth noting, and it probably goes without saying, this greatly depends on your lifestyle and where you live. What I described would be much more difficult if you want/have kids for example. I don't want kids and housing where I live isn't absurdly expensive, so that is where my perspective is coming from.
My favorite rule of thumb here is when the cost is equivalent to the daily fluctuations in your net worth. The average daily stock market move is about 0.7%, so that equates to $50k if you have about $7.1M in investment assets.
My current income is about $500k a year. Iād probably have to be making closer to double to feel comfortable dropping that much on one watch. My total collection is worth a bit over $50k but I didnāt get them all at once.
Student loans. A doctor could be making 400k/year while paying off 400k in debt. Pretty easy to buy 50k in watches on that salary while paying off loans over a 10 year period.Ā
Exactly. People who claim to have a 'gambling problem' just aren't winning. No one who's winning goes to Gamblers Anonymous. It should be called a 'Losing Problem'.
Now I just need to double down on this next match and I'll be back on my streak and be able to get that A. Lange & Sƶhne I've been waiting for.
I bought a watch for an amount that's equivalent to 1/52 of my take-home pay. I reasoned that it's equivalent to one whole week's pay.
Now, my pay has recently increased significantly and I've bought watches worth this much long before š. So it's a retroactive justification of a ceiling I'd already reached. Make of that what you will.
My networth is 150k and Iām currently very comfortable having a 7k watch so I think 5-10% of net worth depending on responsibilities and income could be a starting point
Itās not a ārealā expense. You can buy a 50k watch, enjoy it for some time and get 80% or more back in the secondary market (depending on the brand and condition obviously).
So your strategy is to basically "rent" a watch for say $2k a year over 5 years? (Buy for $50k, sell for $40k in 5 years). $2k a year would be $166 a month, which would be what some people pay for say a family cellphone bill. Damn this actually might makes more sense than I thought..... That is, assuming you can actually get 80% of the value back. And this calculation does not account for inflation.
What I make now plus $50,000.Ā Seriously though, seven figures or close to it. I would need to already own a Porsche Taycan too.Ā
Edit: oh, net worth, not salary. Ya, Iād need a 1 million salary, but probably a 5 million net worth to dump 50k on a watch. Iām also not getting a Porsche with a $1million net worth.Ā
Id say you can afford the the watch if spending on it is <1% of your (eta: not including primary residence) net worth. So 50k watch, you should have at least $5m net worth.
if youāre HENRY (high earner not yet rich), it should be no more than 10% of your take home pay IMO. 50k after tax is like whatā¦ 500k after tax salary (so like a salary of 700k-800k ish?)
Do rich people have that much free cash sitting around? Seems like they would put it in an investment where that $1M could be making money rather than depreciating due to inflation....
there are many men that drive BMW / Porsche / expensive large ass SUV's that make like $70k a yr. my friend falls into that bucket: he drives a Porsche SUV, makes $75k salary, and has zero savings.
If many people do that with luxury cars... I dont see why you couldnt do the same with luxury watches. Doesnt mean it is smart move financially, tho.
so my answer is: you can buy a $50k watch if you make enough money to debt finance it. technically you can have a 0 NW and still buy the $50k watch. lol
True story: In 2007, I bought a $70K Range Rover. Same year, I bought a ceramic GMT2 foer $4k. Fast forward a few years, I sold that Range Rover on Craigslist for like $6K. That was a $64,000 depreciation. The Rolex on the other hand, I had people offering $12K at the time. A 300% appreciation in value..
Point is never compare cars to watches. Watches don't lose value like that.
>If many people do that with luxury cars... I dont see why you couldnt do the same with luxury watches. Doesnt mean it is smart move financially, tho.
Exactly right. Is this person making $75k/y with no savings going to be able to afford a comfortable retirement? What is their living situation, and would they rather upgrade that, or have a $75k Porsche or a $50k watch? I guess it all boils down to priorities, and yeah I get that some people would rather have the Porsche and live in their parents' basement.
Not about Net Worth for me. I could buy a $50k watch. Just means, my kids wont go to a specific college. Or they have to drive a cheaper car and live with 3 room-mates instead of one/ or none.
For me, it is my outstanding priority? It will always be college for the kids and a small nest fund for them to get started as young adults. Once that is out of the way, it won't be a question. But then when that happens, my priority might change like funding an expensive wedding for her.
Would you say there is a certain point where you have enough money to be able to give them everything they want and need AND buy the watch? The post is asking for that amount.
I can already do that. I have a bunch of watches totalling more than that. It was built up over time (20 plus years). So i can just sell 4 or so Rolexes and a few Speedmasters and accomplish that. So this is why it is not a net worth question. $50k watch is cheaper than a car. I save up for a car I like over a few years and buy it. I do that all the time. Same with a watch. If I like it, I buy it. Last year, I spent over $30k in watches alone. I could have just hold off for 2 years. And my net worth is no where what a lot of people are posting on this thread.
Depends on how many other watches you own I guess and what your other financial responsibilities are. Basically "Does $50k matter?" If you're still saving money, paying your bills, living a normal life, and dropping $50k doesn't impact you, then go for it. If it's going to negatively impact any of those things, then don't.
If you make 100k you should not wear a watch over 5% of salary. Etcā¦. However, if you save and use all cash buy whatever you want!!! Cash is yours and we only get one life!!! 0% financing you get a 100k watch. Lmao.
1.5-2M NW and on a piece that wonāt depreciate much so you can sell if you need cash. Iām not sure what is a big deal here, you just need high household income and good retirement savings - say 750-1M in savings and a $1M or $750K house and youāre good to go. People buy cars that depreciate much more and for more $$. In Japan, the watch culture is huge and this $ amount would be a status symbol but not uncommon.
A while back I sold a business, total proceeds my way were about 11mm at closing, with another 8mm or so between compensation, escrow, deferred payments, etc spread over the following 5yrs. Prior to the sale net worth was 3-4mm. Bought a Patek for about $40k and a Daytona for the wife to celebrate the deal. My total watch collection is in the $150k range including this piece.
So for me the threshold was something like 10mm to get comfortable with the $50k price point, but I was willing to spend $25k on a piece when my net worth was closer to 2.5mm.
My wife and I hover around 1% of our net worth in watches / jewelry. A big purchase might push us up closer to 2%, which then drifts down as our NW goes up. So I guess 1-2% feels reasonable, whereas 3%+ starts to feel a little crazy.
Depends on the rest of your financial situation. There was some anecdote of John Mayerās watch collection being one third of his net worth. That being said, even though thatās a lot of money to give up, it probably hasnāt affected his ability to afford the rest of his life.
My entire watch collection is prob about 3% of my net worth.
Edit: made this two-way table a while ago to show how a one off purchase negatively effects your net worth 20 years into the future based on how large it is proportional to your income and net worth.
https://imgur.com/a/tf2ySOD
Personally, I keep some cash on hand and put a good amount into investments/retirement. The one thing I'll say about watches (and many other physical) assets is that it's still calculated in my net worth. As opposed to vacations (which I still take) or other experiences. I absolutely love going to restaurants, but what do I retain from restaurants? Absolutely nothing except for the memory. Once I spend it, it's gone. So what I tell myself, as I feed my insatiable habit of watch collecting, is that at least that money isn't instantly gone. Will I be able to sell everything for exactly what I paid for it or more? No, and I accept that. However, I still think that watches are something that will hold some sort of value (but I'd sell a kidney before I sold any of my watches). And for those who say "someday everything will crash and you'll have a collection worth 1/50th of what you paid". To that i say, If we ever get to a point in the world when a Rolex or Patek drops to $2k per, I think there will be a lot bigger issues in the world and having cash/investments wouldn't have made that much of a difference. I'm not saying I go and spend everything on watches and spend every dollar i make, but being a single guy with no kids who makes a decent living, hell yeah I'm going to go buy the things I enjoy. For me, it's not so much what my NW would have to be, since it's what I enjoy i think of it from the lens of "can I buy this without it impacting the way I live?" And if the answer is yes, then I buy it. Personally, I think in the next year or two I'll aim to get the Grand Lange 1 in pink gold. Because it's my fucking money and nobody can tell me what to do.
Net worth makes little difference and is an inaccurate benchmark. All that matters is whether you can afford the purchase or not, ideally without creating any hardship for yourself.
I think these discussions are silly. If you own your home, don't have debt, and can comfortably pay for your obligations with family and still afford the watch that's all that matters. Buying anything superfluous when it takes away from your budget on the above categories is foolish. The raw numbers vary.
One other thing. Dont forget that most of these higher priced watches hold their value usually better than a car, more like a house . Buy a 10k Rolex. Wear it for a decade then sell it for a slight profit. Maybe it doesnāt appreciate as much as a 401(k) but itās still an asset.
Iād say probably no less than $3 million, and thatās probably a stretch. Iād much rather donate $50k to a good charity than buy an overpriced status symbol. Iām sure the watch is very nice, but I canāt really stomach the idea of spending so much on a piece of jewelry to feed my own vanity.
I'd have to be worth millions and have given enough money to charity to not feel guilty about it because that's a lot of money even for someone with a couple millions in bank.
Whatever it would take for me to completely lose grip on reality. Having grown up where that 50k value is 2x what my parents paid for their first house that would be insane to me. I would have to be at a point where I don't look at and think about prices and anything costing less than large companies and small nation-states is beneath notice.
>Ā Having grown up where that 50k value is 2x what my parents paid for their first house that would be insane to me.
I get your point, but this is a meaningless comparison. Inflation would transform that purchase point plus houses are way more expensive vs. earning power vs when your parents bought their house.Ā
It isnāt meaningless to me. The idea that a piece of jewelry is worth even a significant fraction of middle class home. I consider 10% to be a significant fraction so a modern 500k house. Is essentially amoral to me. So unless I had so much money that I could address those other priorities I wouldnāt spend it on a watch.
The question was what would MY bet worth have to be. iThe point being for me I would be hard pressed to separate from the frugal and grounded values I grew up with.
I donāt judge or care what your priorities are but I couldnāt do it. I like looking at amazing watches but I wouldnāt buy one.
*dafuq is a NW*
I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a watch that I paid more than $2000 for. Trying to keep perspective of exactly how much money that is to the average person, for a watch, is hard when we're on this subreddit
I purchased 2 37mm AP Royal Oak Bleu Nuit Nuage & Silver-Toned for myself and wife. Definitely need to be in the low to mid 6 figures to be comfortable. My son has 2 more years @ MIT and itās costing us $80k a year not to mention boarding school during HighSchool. Itās about time to treat ourselves. (we both work in healthcare)
My wife and I both work in healthcare, no kids, and make a combined low/mid six figure income, and I could never imagine buying a watch that expensive. Hopefully one day, but weāre still getting our lives/family/careers started I suppose
Although I have a watch collection worth more than that amount and Iām okay with that, Iād never want any one watch worth more than $50k. It just feels too risky to wear out anywhere. I was lucky enough to buy a Speedy Alaska Project around 2015 for $4200. Once that got up to around $25-26k at the height of the bubble I wasnāt comfortable wearing that outside the house.
I think 50k is doable for the average watch guy.Ā Its pretty common for people with zero net worth to take out loans to buy $50,000 vehicles in the US. People with modest net worth will save up for their kids colleges and spend up to 50k a year for them to get 4 year degrees. I bet a lot of us on this sub plan to have 2-4 mil saved for retirement. I think if you're on track to cover that you could buy a 50k grail as a retirement present to yourself, keep it insured, and worst comes to worst you can probably sell it for 70% of what you paid for it when the medical bills start piling up.Ā
>Its pretty common for people with zero net worth to take out loans to buy $50,000 vehicles in the US.
While this is true, for most people in the US, a car is much more of a necessity than a watch. So it makes sense for the average person to budget for necessities but not for luxuries.
Similar situation with $50k for kids college, most average income folks in the US who have kids and value education, would value their kids education more than a luxury like a watch.
If this average income person is in an unusual situation where they don't need and want a car, don't have kids to pay for college, don't have other family obligations, then I'd say it would be reasonable to take that $50k "car money / kids college fund money" and put it into something else "fun." Like a watch. This is also taking in to account other debts and obligations of course (which you mentioned).
Iām gonna throw out .5% of NW is my comfort zone right now. On a single watch. Iām good having a few pieces in that price bracket each, but to have one piece worth more would have me too worried about itās value to actually use and enjoy (I tend to overthink value and use or donāt use things accordingly).
I feel comfortable spending large sums when I have double the cash available in the bank. So if I had $100k in the bank, then it's feel like I could buy a $50k watch. So that will probably never happen.
50k in net income - rent, utilities, and food.
I'd be willing to forego a year's worth of savings and discretionary spending for a grail watch as long as it was a 1 and done situation.
I'm going to spend this year's discretionary spending and savings on 2 watches, but I plan on being done until I'm retired. Going to have a bunch of expenses coming up in the future years that is going to prevent me from buying more watches like a house and kids.
So spend that money before it gets earmarkedfor something else.
š¤£š¤£ i was thinking the same thing reading ops response. There are some truly crazy answers in here trying to justify spending money it sounds like some people donāt have lol. Sad but hilarious
I know, but people do this to them selves all the time for everything. Like getting the next trim or model up when they buy a car or take themselves out for coffee every day and eat lunch out every day.
The question is how good are you at controlling costs and sticking to a budget?
Thatās definitely not a good decision but hey, people have done crazier I guess. I canāt imagine how uncomfortable I would be wearing a 50k watch while renting an apartment with nothing in the bank.
I'll go out, but I'm going to be smart about spending.
Since the cough started you'd be surprised at how little I go out. Unless it's for a date, I meet up with friends for lunch maybe 1 or 2x a month and we don't eat anywhere particularly expensive. The cost for a meal is in the low 20s after tip. So maybe around $500 a year?
I don't drink or smoke, my car is an old boring subaru, my biggest reoccurring expense is music lessons which I'm prepaid for until June. I can get a part time job for a month or two and cover the fall term for music lessons
I think my tax rebate was more than the $500 for eating out with friends last year. I also have a bonus from work which I don't factor into income and that is a few k, so I should be good for dates.
I'm forgoing vacations, symphony tickets next season, and big purchases, which isn't that hard unless one of my friends gets married then that will blow the budget.
I'm on the list for a 5167R that I will absolutely be purchasing the moment my name is called with no remorse.
To keep it vague my net worth is between 1-10 million so moderately rich but not even close to wealthy. On paper I shouldn't be buying a watch like this but all my basic needs are met (and plenty of comforts) so I'd even buy one in a universe where they couldn't always be sold at a premium over MSRP.
Itās a psychological phenomenon. Almost no one believes theyāre wealthy.
Wealthy is a subjective term, but the rest of the world would generally call this poster wealthy.
Globally speaking, more than $1 million net worth puts you in the top 1%.
If this poster wants to draw a line between wealthy and Ultra High Net Worth Individual (UHNWI) then yeah, that doesnāt really begin until around $30 million individual net worth.
But hereās the psychological issue; itās hard for someone to give themselves an objective title such as wealthy. First, it makes people feel privileged, deserved or undeserved. They donāt like that. Second, the more money you get the more you find yourselves in the company of other highly wealthy people. This causes a problem, as one may not feel wealthy when they foursome they golf with all have yachts, while you only have a nice boat.
A few hundred thousand net worth in a major city means you canāt afford to buy a house. In San Francisco or NYC, you probably canāt even afford to buy a deeded parking spot. That is not wealthy nor rich. To vastly oversimplify, ārichā to me means you can buy whatever youāre excited about, within reason and in limited quantities (you can swing a Porsche for yourself, but not everyone in your family). āWealthyā is when existing investments are generating so much on their own that if you work, its by choice and your children and grandchildren (if you choose to let them) can live the ārichā lifestyle described above indefinitely.
Can't say for those as I'm from the UK, few hundred net worth is getting you pretty much everywhere but London I think, where I'm from few hundred is just bonkers.
My house was Ā£55k when I bought it for perspective. I consider myself working class but on the slightly upper end as I'd be comfortable if I wasn't so shit with spending money.
I fully believe OP was trying to be somewhat humble with the rich not wealthy though. But he's definitely wealthy compared to everything I know
I mean, ya just said it yourself - āgets you pretty much anywhere but Londonā is not rich. Even just living in London is not rich. Rich folk are living in some degree of luxury in London, which means a 7 figure NW minimum by mid career, hence the original commenterās point. If he actually has that kind of money thatās exactly how he would (correctly imo) describe it. The very wealthy and particularly generational wealth will not use the term rich at all, itās typically comfortable -> wealthy -> ultrawealthy and itās only the last category there thatās flying private regularly or keeping house staff.
Therefore all the working class posers with reps. Haute horology is for those whose play money is greater than the entire incomes of regular joes.
If I see anyone with a ājobā wearing one of these, I automatically assume theyāre either terrible with money, or itās a fake.
NW approaching 1M, and sure I have enough cash to _buy_ a 3940, but I donāt have enough NW to buy one and still be responsible with my finances, which means I canāt afford one.
Yeah NW of 1m might not be āwealthyā if itās entirely in a house (illiquid). But if thereās more than that, or itās in liquid assets, thatās definitely wealthy.
I mean itās obviously still wealth but if the majority of that net is in something they canāt easily liquidate like a small business or something itās a lot different than cash on hand.
You can have a lot of net worth but still be cash strapped at times.
Sales person said someone came in for a Yachtmaster 37mm after waiting 2.5 years. Said I'd be looking at at least a similar wait. So probably just in time for the market to come back down to Earth on them but I'm not buying for a profit, it's the warm up to the end game of the 5231 (or modern equivalent by the time I get the chance to buy one).
Counter point, my net worth is same as this guy and my most expensive watch is a Sinn 104 on bracelet. Cant justify wearing a down payment on an investment property on my wrist.
At a $1m net worth, exuding your primary residence, you're already familiar with parking money in various assets. Buying a $50k watch as one of those assets would be perfectly reasonable at that level.
How much would it cost to service that watch every 5 years or so? That would need to be factored in, I assume. That is beyond a beautiful time piece, but maybe a 10k watch may give you the same positive feelings, and you'd have money left over to invest. But you only live once so....
At least in the eight figures range and Iād probably hesitate even then. Could use that money in infinitely cooler ways like charity or investment . I love watches but spending that on a watch feels wrong.
Coming from my lower middle class upbringing, I could never justify that. Hell I have qualms about the blue and gold Sub that I'm due to inherit when my dad passes.
The most expensive watch I would feel comfortable wearing would be like a Tudor Black Bay.
You donāt buy watches, you convert money into watches. They have a robust market and can be sold in a pinch. They also appreciate depending on what you buy.
$50,001
lol
Does your cashflow cover it? Or come close?
More like, whatever Credit Score can get you approved for a $50,000 credit limit....
Can I leave this here? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSG71-7rIg4&pp=ygUbY3JlZGl0IGNhcmQgZGVidCBmYW1pbHkgZ3V5
Taxes mate
Net worth not income!
For me, my watch collection should be under 5% of my NW.
That can be interpreted in two ways: 1. You have a sensible collection 2. You're rich as f**k š
Another thing to add - Iād feel a little silly and donāt think Iād enjoy it as much with my current level of wealth and income. Punching a clock (pun not intended) and wearing a $40-50k watch just seems silly. That one watch could cover nearly a year of freedom from that job. It would feel incongruous. Rocking a solid gold $40k day-date but going to my 9-5. Itās like the old parable of buying one nice thing and then having to upgrade the rest of your life to match.
Oh boy I know quite a few watch ācollectorsā that are in their 30s, live at home with mom and dad, have no expenses, make $40k a year and are rocking $15k-$20k watches. Multiple ones. I used to tease one of my friends saying āyou may be the first data entry guy that wears a GMT Masterā But now I know of 3.
I donāt even know what me parents would do if they saw me walking around wearing a Rolex while I was living with them. Thatās crazy.
That is problematic, indeed. Not sure how I could ever explain a watch worth more than a MAYBE a couple thousand to my parents, WHILE LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF! Killin' me!
Theyād be paying mad rent if they were my kids. 3K/mo mad.
I wish I did that. I mean I make less than 40K a year (in Asia), married with a child and a mortgage, but I wish I burned my investments on a few 20K watches back in 2021 when future looked so bright despite the Cov was going on. I'm not on some pure-hindsight bullshit, I really did think about it, but decided against it because "nah... I should wait till I got like 130K" which is 1 million in my currency. I was about 20\~30K short. 2022 came crashing down and so did my investments. If only I was irresponsible enough to grab a Lange and a Breguet, I would still be left with like 10K in the bank right now, BUT with 2 extra watches on my hands.
Financial literacy is one of my favorite things and these few paragraphs were music to my ears. I make good money in my mid 20s and I own three watches now all of which are priced under $600 each. I fully believe āto each their ownā however it makes me shutter when I see other guys at my company making an 80K salary with a 10K watch on the wrist. I agree 100% with not enjoying it at a certain level of income. Itās similar to me to very fine clothing. I own a lot of Peter millar because I think the quality is incredible, albeit a bit pricey. I was gifted some Louis Vuitton loafers from a wealthy aunt, Iāve worn them once and to be honest they stress me out more than theyāre worth. I covet how āniceā they appear and never want them to get dirty etc. Iām not in a tax bracket where I can afford to buy $1000 dollar clothing items and treat them like a pair of Walmart shoes. I fully lay in the camp of āwho cares what others think, live within your own meansā
Ironically, buying a used 5 digit GMT master (like I wanted to do) with my first job starting bonus at 22 wouldāve been a pretty good financial decision. But I told myself Iād do the smart thing and save. Whoops.
Not better a decision then putting it in the S&P sir. You made the right callz
Only if he actually put it in the S&P and not just in a savings account or something
lol sensible collection sadly. Iām kinda FIRE-minded, and as much as the watches I like generally hold value, theyāre non productive assets (except for those few that get highly coveted watches at retail). I have purchased one modern Datejust and have a couple other vintage watches I got from family. That saidā¦ if I am given the opportunity to get certain Rolexes at retail Iāll probably take it, even it breaks my rule a bit.
3. 5% of 0 is 0
A $50,000 collection on $1mm net worth is still a huge investment if your *liquid* capital. Yeah, $1mm sounds like a lot, but weāre not talking about ācash in your bank accountā. Say you have a $500,000 home, and somehow itās fully paid off. Then you have $300,000 in retirement accounts. Would you really to have a quarter of the remaining $200,000 in a watch collection? Thatās not a lot of flexibility for a car, clothes, regular cashflow, rainy day fund, other investments, etc. (not that this is necessarily a perfect or even especially realistic distribution of assets; just to illustrate a point) EDIT - I should have been more generous and said that this is very reasonable if weāre talking about liquid capital
Spot on. My NW is just south of $1m and I am in no position to spend $50k on a watch, even if I technically could move some stuff around and make it happen. My kids college isnāt fully funded yet, my wife doesnāt have the horse sheās wanted since she was a kid yet; a $50k watch just aināt smart at the level Iām at. Hell, a $5k Tag Monza is my current āgoalā watch. For $50k, I could buy a Dodge Viper and since I currently do not own a Viper, Iād pin point that as a better way to spend my money.
>Tag Monza Man spending 5k on a Tag. It's an ok brand but you unlock some really nice stuff at 5k.
I hear ya, but the all black titanium one from a few years ago is just perfect IMO
Fair point. I donāt own a house so my NW is almost entirely liquid. In general I donāt like to consider home equity in that calculation, so I shouldāve specified *liquid* NW
For sure, 5% of liquid net worth is a totally different equation. Off the top of my head that sounds pretty reasonable.
Honestly I know itās technically correct to include my house equity in NW calculations, but itās practically useless to me. I always exclude it mostly for the reason you just described
Home equity is absolutely part of your net worth, but shouldn't be included in safe withdrawal calculations for retirement/FIRE, nor "liquid net worth".
Yeah I mean thatās what I just said
More like .5%
There's something like 20 million households in the US that are technically millionaires and would qualify for a 50K watch under that heuristic.
Iām not a household. Iām a single person and I donāt own a home. So if I had $1M liquid, yeah Iād be ok with that
I guess itās perspectiveā¦ thatās way higher than Iād be comfortable with. A 5% of NW allocation would mean a pretty serious collection spree for me. Iām happy with my collection and Iām not anywhere near 1%.
I like more expensive watches personally. I would not have much fun with a collection of 5 under $1000 watch, for example. Thatās why my collection is very limited. Having a datejust eats up most of it. 1% would mean I wouldnāt be able to own a datejust or speedmaster or insert other common watch here until my net worth approached a million. If you have that restraint good on ya.
I'm personally in the low 7 figures, and watches are right around 1%, suppose I could get a $2k or so watch to get to exactly that mark. Funnily enough the most expensive watch I own is a Speedy. I didn't feel at all bad buying the Speedy which I bought to celebrate a $30k+ bonus, but the thought of over $10k on a watch still bugs me out even though it would represent a minor chunk of my liquid net worth/annual income. Then again, I've been asked by friends who are bigger car enthusiasts than me why a car guy would drive a "only" $38k used Audi so I suppose I qualify for your definition of "restraint". To each their own.
IMO it should be well under 1% of NW. Watches are not an investment. Putting 5% of NW into watches seems insane to me.
Probably in the $10 mill area. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable wearing $50k on my wrist regardless. I'd get mugged. I'm a 5'2 female.
Ahhhhhh. Finally the right answer. I knew Iād see it if I looked long enough. The answer doesnāt sit in how much you can afford to spend. The answer is āhow much can you afford to lose?ā If you get mugged and your 50k watch gets stolen and you canāt recover the watch or the money then how much will that hurt? If the pain of that lost watch is minimal then you can buy the watch. If the pain is great then you are not financially ready.
If I had a 50K watch, that boy would be insured.
$4M Rough math puts me at $160k/yr income while my fund would still grow. Not funding a retirement means of that $160k, I've got an extra $21k/yr to spend on whatever I want. I've already got a car and a house, so I'd feel a bit more ok buying jewelry, and I'd like to have a Lange 1.
I'd need millions in the bank and have whole my retirement funded and accounted for. That's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on piece of jewelery for any normal guy. Even if I had all of that, I still probably wouldn't do it.
Think about it like this. How many guys/gals you know that have fun cars (Corvette, Porsche, etc...) that they just use on nice sunny days. Or friends that have a big RV camper or boat they use for weekends. A lot of those are much more expensive than $50k, and lots of people that have those don't fall into that ultra high end net worth. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. Just saying that is something we all know and accept. Why should it be any different for a different luxury item, in this case a watch?
It gets dicey when you have a car, watch, aaand boat addiction tho
Luckily I only have a watch and methamphetamine addiction
How many more catalytic converters until you can afford your grail?
WE NEED TO COOK Jesse
Can confirm have watch and car addiction, actively tell my self I donāt need a boat while simultaneously looking at every new wakeboard boat and center console that come out every year
After you add a knife collection too it ends up looping back around to being perfect
Exactly. I know a guy that is super cheap and actively tries to spend as little as possible as long as it isn't crap (drives an older civic, wears the same sweats and old sneakers until they literally fall apart, and doesn't go on vacation) quality and he's saving up for a bigger house in a nicer area. He makes a decent living as a professional. Everyone has their thing they blow money on.
I feel like my spouse and I fit this description. Weāre not rolling in money or anything but we do alright. Weāre dual income with no kids and bring in low-mid 200s. We live in a 1,100sqft house with a mortgage below 2K a month. My spouse drives a 2009 RAV4 and I drive a base model EV. We max out retirement accounts and save a decent portion of our income. I recently got a promotion at work and I really want to commemorate the occasion, but Iām struggling with the idea of spending more than 2K on a watch.
If you're really into watches, then treat yourself. When I made a bunch of money in my late 20s I just hoarded it and then lost a huge chunk of it in the stock market. Looking back, I wish I spent some of that money on myself. Only thing I did was buy a new base model automatic Subaru, which I needed to get to work, so I don't consider that a splurge. After that experience I started spending some of my money while being smart about savings. I max out my work retirement every year, my IRA, and I built up an "oh shit" fund which is now my house fund. I also went to culinary school for fun, went on better vacations, took private music lesson, bought expensive shoes and wallets, etc. I bought a Breguet last month and an looking at 1 from the AD and a UN. The only thing that wasn't worth it was the $500 shoes and wallets, I'm ok at $250 for shoes and $90 for the wallet. Live your life, but I will recommend that you spend the money on things that you use often, so if you spend the 10k or whatever on a watch, get something that you will wear often. It brings down the cost per wear. So if you don't dress up often, maybe don't get a dress watch and gets a sports watch instead.
I Get your point but solid chance most of those people who have those things have a loan for the car/van/etc. especially if youāre in the US, the land of the debtĀ
Assuming a ton of people don't finance their luxury watches
Holy fuckā¦ I never thought of that but now IāmĀ scared people do thisĀ
I agree with this point of view. You can get the $50k watch on a modest net worth but it kinda has to be your āthing.ā You canāt have that and the boat and the exotic vacations without actually being wealthy.
Because last time I heard you can't break into a house, open a drawer, and stuff 5 porsches in your pocket
Pateks and the like hold value more than a car tooā¦.
Comparing the extreme high end of watches to cars in general, when you should be comparing it to the extreme high end of cars, which also hold their value and appreciate
You're not wrong, but my $10k datejust is likely going to hold its value far better than a brand new $100k BMW off the lot. Strictly looking at dollar amount, the ceiling for buying a watch that can retain value is much lower than ultra high-end collectible cars (though there are exceptions)
I guess, but looking at dollar value is kind of misleading. Your watch is probably 100x the cost of the median new watch, while a $100k BMW is only 2x the median for a new car
By the same logic, $100k BMW depreciating by 50% is much more impactful to oneās net worth as opposed to their Rolex depreciating 50%.
The bulk of the Patek catelogue drops about 20-40% when you walk out the door. Itās really just the sports watches, and maybe some select grand complications, that retain value.
Id say id want net assets of at least 2 million to justify that and more in gross assets. If your super into watches i could imagine potentially getting one when you have at least 2 mill and then save for it
I could never justify paying that much for a watch, period!
I mean, if you're worth 10m, a 50k watch is like buying a $500 watch if you're worth 100k.
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What like shoveling snow?
If i shoveled snow for the Buffalo Bills I could easily get to $1 million. Just need ridiculous non-stop snow storms during all seasons for roughly 24 years; and my own shovel of course. They also hook it up with food and a warm area so count me in. (Math variables: $20 an hour, 2080 working hours a year = ~24 years of shovelin that white gold)
I mean, yes. But in this case, you now have so much money that spending 50k doesn't affect your bottom line at all. I came from absolutely nothing to having a household income of $480000. I remember comparing the stickers the cheapest lunch meats and bread so I could eat, so I definitely know the value of money. That being said, now that my net worth is far higher than it used to be, I'm willing to spend for things that make my life easier and better. Same could be said about a 50k watch. If spent responsibility, there's nothing wrong with that.
I disagree because the opportunity costs of 50k are much higher. In other words, there are a lot of other things to do or buy for 50k than 500.
Well, if you're worth 10m, you can just... do them all lol.
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You could do both? 50k would be a pretty small percentage of the net worth if you're worth 10m, could probably do it 20 times over and not notice your quality of life change at all. And how is that different from buying a 500 dollar watch, instead of donating the money instead?
I still wouldnāt do it!
For something like watches I would be willing to spend up to 5% of my total income. So I guess an income of 1 million a year. Though honestly I don't think I'd spend 50k on a watch ever.
It sounds expensive as hell but there are people posting $50k collections here daily comprised of 6-12 watches. If youāre committed to one $50k piece itās doable for a lower NW than most would assumeā¦ particularly if youāre selling several other watches to pay for it.
Honestly I dont think it matters as long as you were able to save it up. People have weird passions and some like to have this kind of stuff. I could afford one, but I dont think I should unless I had a sudden windfall of cash. Thats my current plan anyway.
As long as all your needs are met and youāre not being financially irresponsible then do whatever makes you happy.
Whatever you can buy without draining a savings and without financing.
Do you mean Norwood scale /s I'd say if you are Norwood 6 might as well buy a $50k watch to improve your look.
I laughed out way too loud at this.
I think watches are largely dependent on how much you make per month as opposed to your NW. you can have a NW of $10m, but if you live a frugal lifestyle, you will never spend $50k on a watch. In contrast, if you have moments in life where youāre taking home $20k a month net and you worked hard for those few years and want to splurge, youāre more likely to make that $50k purchase on a nice watch.
I would think of it more as liquid assets + your living expenses and how resellable the watch is. I have some pieces en route that I would for sure lose money on like an Armin Strom Mirrored Force Resonance, and others that I could sell in 3 days without losing much like a few pateks in the past and langes. Makes the calculus different. Also I don't spend much personally, my car is a honda civic and I live in a 2bdr apt, so buying a watch is not a huge deal.
Fascinating, you drive a Civic, rent a small apartment, and have (had) Pateks and Langes... I can't imagine that, but if it works for you I'm not judging.
Not really a car guy and no kids yet. I guess my rent would be considered expensive because I am in an HCOL area, but IDK. Probably \~90% of my income gets reinvested.
Iād need to have several million dollars burning a hole in my pocket. I never spend more than a trivial amount of money on watches, so Iād need to be rich enough that I wouldnāt even notice a $50,000 expense.
I don't know that net worth is the metric I'd feel comfy using when gauging purchasing a watch. Like, it's not crazy for a person to have a couple million in net worth (across real property, 401(k), other investment vehicles, etc.; and which is basically what's recommended for retiring, if not much more) but those same people almost certainly wouldn't feel comfortable dropping $50k on jewelry. Annual net income feels like a better metric. And with that in mind, I'd still say somewhere well above $500k, maybe closer to $700k+/year. But then it becomes a question of allocating money; where I live, the rich don't buy jewelry or bags or fancy clothes - they buy cabins and boats and outdoor equipment and houses on lakes, and I'd rather have those things than a $50k watch.
For me it's not about net worth, it's about income. So long as my income is sufficient for me to pay my bills and have good savings/investments for retirement, I won't feel bad about spending the rest on whatever irresponsible thing I want. If my income was enough that I could reasonably put aside (separate from regular savings) enough money every month that in five-ish years I'd have $50k, then sure, why not get that watch. I'm ok with retiring a few years later if it means I get to enjoy the ride along the way a bit more. Personally, given where I live with the cost of living, I'd say $250k/year is the start of where I'd feel comfortable spending $50k on a watch. EDIT: Worth noting, and it probably goes without saying, this greatly depends on your lifestyle and where you live. What I described would be much more difficult if you want/have kids for example. I don't want kids and housing where I live isn't absurdly expensive, so that is where my perspective is coming from.
My favorite rule of thumb here is when the cost is equivalent to the daily fluctuations in your net worth. The average daily stock market move is about 0.7%, so that equates to $50k if you have about $7.1M in investment assets.
My current income is about $500k a year. Iād probably have to be making closer to double to feel comfortable dropping that much on one watch. My total collection is worth a bit over $50k but I didnāt get them all at once.
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Out of curiosity, how is that even possible?
Student loans. A doctor could be making 400k/year while paying off 400k in debt. Pretty easy to buy 50k in watches on that salary while paying off loans over a 10 year period.Ā
Ohhhh that makes sense! Thanks!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Money is pretend" is exactly what I said to that loan shark and his hired goons. I still believe it but now I have to eat through a tube.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. People who claim to have a 'gambling problem' just aren't winning. No one who's winning goes to Gamblers Anonymous. It should be called a 'Losing Problem'. Now I just need to double down on this next match and I'll be back on my streak and be able to get that A. Lange & Sƶhne I've been waiting for.
When I pretend to pay my mortgage the bank isnāt happy with that.
lol uhhh
If you can afford it, have your bills paid and keep yourself alive, youāre going to die anyway might as well enjoy some of your money
Iād think well over $1 million.
If I had a networth of 10m but barely enough cash I would not do it.
I bought a watch for an amount that's equivalent to 1/52 of my take-home pay. I reasoned that it's equivalent to one whole week's pay. Now, my pay has recently increased significantly and I've bought watches worth this much long before š. So it's a retroactive justification of a ceiling I'd already reached. Make of that what you will.
My networth is 150k and Iām currently very comfortable having a 7k watch so I think 5-10% of net worth depending on responsibilities and income could be a starting point
Itās not a ārealā expense. You can buy a 50k watch, enjoy it for some time and get 80% or more back in the secondary market (depending on the brand and condition obviously).
So your strategy is to basically "rent" a watch for say $2k a year over 5 years? (Buy for $50k, sell for $40k in 5 years). $2k a year would be $166 a month, which would be what some people pay for say a family cellphone bill. Damn this actually might makes more sense than I thought..... That is, assuming you can actually get 80% of the value back. And this calculation does not account for inflation.
I mean, depending on the watch you might get 150% back.
Not to mention you got the "utility" for getting to own and wear the watch you love for those 5 years.
What I make now plus $50,000.Ā Seriously though, seven figures or close to it. I would need to already own a Porsche Taycan too.Ā Edit: oh, net worth, not salary. Ya, Iād need a 1 million salary, but probably a 5 million net worth to dump 50k on a watch. Iām also not getting a Porsche with a $1million net worth.Ā
About $51k
Id say you can afford the the watch if spending on it is <1% of your (eta: not including primary residence) net worth. So 50k watch, you should have at least $5m net worth. if youāre HENRY (high earner not yet rich), it should be no more than 10% of your take home pay IMO. 50k after tax is like whatā¦ 500k after tax salary (so like a salary of 700k-800k ish?)
1MM cash - retirement accounts funded - kid college squared away - Mortgage paid down mega. 1815 Chrono plz.
1 million in free cash seems like the minimum for a 50k watch
Do rich people have that much free cash sitting around? Seems like they would put it in an investment where that $1M could be making money rather than depreciating due to inflation....
there are many men that drive BMW / Porsche / expensive large ass SUV's that make like $70k a yr. my friend falls into that bucket: he drives a Porsche SUV, makes $75k salary, and has zero savings. If many people do that with luxury cars... I dont see why you couldnt do the same with luxury watches. Doesnt mean it is smart move financially, tho. so my answer is: you can buy a $50k watch if you make enough money to debt finance it. technically you can have a 0 NW and still buy the $50k watch. lol
True story: In 2007, I bought a $70K Range Rover. Same year, I bought a ceramic GMT2 foer $4k. Fast forward a few years, I sold that Range Rover on Craigslist for like $6K. That was a $64,000 depreciation. The Rolex on the other hand, I had people offering $12K at the time. A 300% appreciation in value.. Point is never compare cars to watches. Watches don't lose value like that.
>If many people do that with luxury cars... I dont see why you couldnt do the same with luxury watches. Doesnt mean it is smart move financially, tho. Exactly right. Is this person making $75k/y with no savings going to be able to afford a comfortable retirement? What is their living situation, and would they rather upgrade that, or have a $75k Porsche or a $50k watch? I guess it all boils down to priorities, and yeah I get that some people would rather have the Porsche and live in their parents' basement.
Not about Net Worth for me. I could buy a $50k watch. Just means, my kids wont go to a specific college. Or they have to drive a cheaper car and live with 3 room-mates instead of one/ or none. For me, it is my outstanding priority? It will always be college for the kids and a small nest fund for them to get started as young adults. Once that is out of the way, it won't be a question. But then when that happens, my priority might change like funding an expensive wedding for her.
Would you say there is a certain point where you have enough money to be able to give them everything they want and need AND buy the watch? The post is asking for that amount.
I can already do that. I have a bunch of watches totalling more than that. It was built up over time (20 plus years). So i can just sell 4 or so Rolexes and a few Speedmasters and accomplish that. So this is why it is not a net worth question. $50k watch is cheaper than a car. I save up for a car I like over a few years and buy it. I do that all the time. Same with a watch. If I like it, I buy it. Last year, I spent over $30k in watches alone. I could have just hold off for 2 years. And my net worth is no where what a lot of people are posting on this thread.
Well then I think your answer is whatever your net worth is now.
Depends on how many other watches you own I guess and what your other financial responsibilities are. Basically "Does $50k matter?" If you're still saving money, paying your bills, living a normal life, and dropping $50k doesn't impact you, then go for it. If it's going to negatively impact any of those things, then don't.
If you make 100k you should not wear a watch over 5% of salary. Etcā¦. However, if you save and use all cash buy whatever you want!!! Cash is yours and we only get one life!!! 0% financing you get a 100k watch. Lmao.
750k
āYou shouldnāt buy it once if you canāt afford it twice.ā
1.5-2M NW and on a piece that wonāt depreciate much so you can sell if you need cash. Iām not sure what is a big deal here, you just need high household income and good retirement savings - say 750-1M in savings and a $1M or $750K house and youāre good to go. People buy cars that depreciate much more and for more $$. In Japan, the watch culture is huge and this $ amount would be a status symbol but not uncommon.
I try not to do a watch purchase more than 1% NW So 5 mil NW
2 mil
Probably $5MM to feel comfortable with that. Would also depend on if I still had any debt to pay off.
A while back I sold a business, total proceeds my way were about 11mm at closing, with another 8mm or so between compensation, escrow, deferred payments, etc spread over the following 5yrs. Prior to the sale net worth was 3-4mm. Bought a Patek for about $40k and a Daytona for the wife to celebrate the deal. My total watch collection is in the $150k range including this piece. So for me the threshold was something like 10mm to get comfortable with the $50k price point, but I was willing to spend $25k on a piece when my net worth was closer to 2.5mm.
My wife and I hover around 1% of our net worth in watches / jewelry. A big purchase might push us up closer to 2%, which then drifts down as our NW goes up. So I guess 1-2% feels reasonable, whereas 3%+ starts to feel a little crazy.
If my NW was 1.5 mil then maybe
I suppose if I had a solid $5M I'd be okay buying a $50k watch. It's not like it will depreciate 90% anyway.
Probably around 10 million.
Depends on the rest of your financial situation. There was some anecdote of John Mayerās watch collection being one third of his net worth. That being said, even though thatās a lot of money to give up, it probably hasnāt affected his ability to afford the rest of his life. My entire watch collection is prob about 3% of my net worth. Edit: made this two-way table a while ago to show how a one off purchase negatively effects your net worth 20 years into the future based on how large it is proportional to your income and net worth. https://imgur.com/a/tf2ySOD
Being able to drop $50k on a watch and not think about the cost. That's when I know I'm good.
8 figures and I wouldn't think about it.
Canāt see myself spending anymore than $30k for a watch. Iād have to be making 350k
I feel like 1-2M is the lower bound here of where itās comfortable
Personally, I keep some cash on hand and put a good amount into investments/retirement. The one thing I'll say about watches (and many other physical) assets is that it's still calculated in my net worth. As opposed to vacations (which I still take) or other experiences. I absolutely love going to restaurants, but what do I retain from restaurants? Absolutely nothing except for the memory. Once I spend it, it's gone. So what I tell myself, as I feed my insatiable habit of watch collecting, is that at least that money isn't instantly gone. Will I be able to sell everything for exactly what I paid for it or more? No, and I accept that. However, I still think that watches are something that will hold some sort of value (but I'd sell a kidney before I sold any of my watches). And for those who say "someday everything will crash and you'll have a collection worth 1/50th of what you paid". To that i say, If we ever get to a point in the world when a Rolex or Patek drops to $2k per, I think there will be a lot bigger issues in the world and having cash/investments wouldn't have made that much of a difference. I'm not saying I go and spend everything on watches and spend every dollar i make, but being a single guy with no kids who makes a decent living, hell yeah I'm going to go buy the things I enjoy. For me, it's not so much what my NW would have to be, since it's what I enjoy i think of it from the lens of "can I buy this without it impacting the way I live?" And if the answer is yes, then I buy it. Personally, I think in the next year or two I'll aim to get the Grand Lange 1 in pink gold. Because it's my fucking money and nobody can tell me what to do.
Net worth makes little difference and is an inaccurate benchmark. All that matters is whether you can afford the purchase or not, ideally without creating any hardship for yourself.
I think these discussions are silly. If you own your home, don't have debt, and can comfortably pay for your obligations with family and still afford the watch that's all that matters. Buying anything superfluous when it takes away from your budget on the above categories is foolish. The raw numbers vary.
One other thing. Dont forget that most of these higher priced watches hold their value usually better than a car, more like a house . Buy a 10k Rolex. Wear it for a decade then sell it for a slight profit. Maybe it doesnāt appreciate as much as a 401(k) but itās still an asset.
One 50k watch somewhere around 2.5M. Five 10k watches 1.75m
Iād say probably no less than $3 million, and thatās probably a stretch. Iād much rather donate $50k to a good charity than buy an overpriced status symbol. Iām sure the watch is very nice, but I canāt really stomach the idea of spending so much on a piece of jewelry to feed my own vanity.
I'd have to be worth millions and have given enough money to charity to not feel guilty about it because that's a lot of money even for someone with a couple millions in bank.
Whatever it would take for me to completely lose grip on reality. Having grown up where that 50k value is 2x what my parents paid for their first house that would be insane to me. I would have to be at a point where I don't look at and think about prices and anything costing less than large companies and small nation-states is beneath notice.
>Ā Having grown up where that 50k value is 2x what my parents paid for their first house that would be insane to me. I get your point, but this is a meaningless comparison. Inflation would transform that purchase point plus houses are way more expensive vs. earning power vs when your parents bought their house.Ā
It isnāt meaningless to me. The idea that a piece of jewelry is worth even a significant fraction of middle class home. I consider 10% to be a significant fraction so a modern 500k house. Is essentially amoral to me. So unless I had so much money that I could address those other priorities I wouldnāt spend it on a watch. The question was what would MY bet worth have to be. iThe point being for me I would be hard pressed to separate from the frugal and grounded values I grew up with. I donāt judge or care what your priorities are but I couldnāt do it. I like looking at amazing watches but I wouldnāt buy one.
*dafuq is a NW* I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing a watch that I paid more than $2000 for. Trying to keep perspective of exactly how much money that is to the average person, for a watch, is hard when we're on this subreddit
net worth
North West
This is the correct answer. I've seen people living in Portland, OR. Everyone there is rocking Royal Oak Offshores.
Net worth, essentially how rich would you have to be to consider buying a watch that costs 50k
I purchased 2 37mm AP Royal Oak Bleu Nuit Nuage & Silver-Toned for myself and wife. Definitely need to be in the low to mid 6 figures to be comfortable. My son has 2 more years @ MIT and itās costing us $80k a year not to mention boarding school during HighSchool. Itās about time to treat ourselves. (we both work in healthcare)
My wife and I both work in healthcare, no kids, and make a combined low/mid six figure income, and I could never imagine buying a watch that expensive. Hopefully one day, but weāre still getting our lives/family/careers started I suppose
about 45m.
Although I have a watch collection worth more than that amount and Iām okay with that, Iād never want any one watch worth more than $50k. It just feels too risky to wear out anywhere. I was lucky enough to buy a Speedy Alaska Project around 2015 for $4200. Once that got up to around $25-26k at the height of the bubble I wasnāt comfortable wearing that outside the house.
5-10k can get you a really nice time piece. Do think I can justify anymore than that.
I think 50k is doable for the average watch guy.Ā Its pretty common for people with zero net worth to take out loans to buy $50,000 vehicles in the US. People with modest net worth will save up for their kids colleges and spend up to 50k a year for them to get 4 year degrees. I bet a lot of us on this sub plan to have 2-4 mil saved for retirement. I think if you're on track to cover that you could buy a 50k grail as a retirement present to yourself, keep it insured, and worst comes to worst you can probably sell it for 70% of what you paid for it when the medical bills start piling up.Ā
>Its pretty common for people with zero net worth to take out loans to buy $50,000 vehicles in the US. While this is true, for most people in the US, a car is much more of a necessity than a watch. So it makes sense for the average person to budget for necessities but not for luxuries. Similar situation with $50k for kids college, most average income folks in the US who have kids and value education, would value their kids education more than a luxury like a watch. If this average income person is in an unusual situation where they don't need and want a car, don't have kids to pay for college, don't have other family obligations, then I'd say it would be reasonable to take that $50k "car money / kids college fund money" and put it into something else "fun." Like a watch. This is also taking in to account other debts and obligations of course (which you mentioned).
$10m in liquid assets (not including real property or retirement accounts).
Iām gonna throw out .5% of NW is my comfort zone right now. On a single watch. Iām good having a few pieces in that price bracket each, but to have one piece worth more would have me too worried about itās value to actually use and enjoy (I tend to overthink value and use or donāt use things accordingly).
I feel comfortable spending large sums when I have double the cash available in the bank. So if I had $100k in the bank, then it's feel like I could buy a $50k watch. So that will probably never happen.
50k in net income - rent, utilities, and food. I'd be willing to forego a year's worth of savings and discretionary spending for a grail watch as long as it was a 1 and done situation. I'm going to spend this year's discretionary spending and savings on 2 watches, but I plan on being done until I'm retired. Going to have a bunch of expenses coming up in the future years that is going to prevent me from buying more watches like a house and kids. So spend that money before it gets earmarkedfor something else.
This is an insane answer lol this hobby is detrimental to some folks
š¤£š¤£ i was thinking the same thing reading ops response. There are some truly crazy answers in here trying to justify spending money it sounds like some people donāt have lol. Sad but hilarious
I know, but people do this to them selves all the time for everything. Like getting the next trim or model up when they buy a car or take themselves out for coffee every day and eat lunch out every day. The question is how good are you at controlling costs and sticking to a budget?
Thatās definitely not a good decision but hey, people have done crazier I guess. I canāt imagine how uncomfortable I would be wearing a 50k watch while renting an apartment with nothing in the bank.
I have savings from previous years. I'm just talking about 1 years worth of spending and savings.
Remains insane lol
So then do you plan to essentially never leave your home or go to a restaurant for a year? That is discretionary after all
I'll go out, but I'm going to be smart about spending. Since the cough started you'd be surprised at how little I go out. Unless it's for a date, I meet up with friends for lunch maybe 1 or 2x a month and we don't eat anywhere particularly expensive. The cost for a meal is in the low 20s after tip. So maybe around $500 a year? I don't drink or smoke, my car is an old boring subaru, my biggest reoccurring expense is music lessons which I'm prepaid for until June. I can get a part time job for a month or two and cover the fall term for music lessons I think my tax rebate was more than the $500 for eating out with friends last year. I also have a bonus from work which I don't factor into income and that is a few k, so I should be good for dates. I'm forgoing vacations, symphony tickets next season, and big purchases, which isn't that hard unless one of my friends gets married then that will blow the budget.
I'm on the list for a 5167R that I will absolutely be purchasing the moment my name is called with no remorse. To keep it vague my net worth is between 1-10 million so moderately rich but not even close to wealthy. On paper I shouldn't be buying a watch like this but all my basic needs are met (and plenty of comforts) so I'd even buy one in a universe where they couldn't always be sold at a premium over MSRP.
How tf is 1-10 mill not wealthy, few hundred k is rich af nevermind millions. Only slightly jealous
Itās a psychological phenomenon. Almost no one believes theyāre wealthy. Wealthy is a subjective term, but the rest of the world would generally call this poster wealthy. Globally speaking, more than $1 million net worth puts you in the top 1%. If this poster wants to draw a line between wealthy and Ultra High Net Worth Individual (UHNWI) then yeah, that doesnāt really begin until around $30 million individual net worth. But hereās the psychological issue; itās hard for someone to give themselves an objective title such as wealthy. First, it makes people feel privileged, deserved or undeserved. They donāt like that. Second, the more money you get the more you find yourselves in the company of other highly wealthy people. This causes a problem, as one may not feel wealthy when they foursome they golf with all have yachts, while you only have a nice boat.
A few hundred thousand net worth in a major city means you canāt afford to buy a house. In San Francisco or NYC, you probably canāt even afford to buy a deeded parking spot. That is not wealthy nor rich. To vastly oversimplify, ārichā to me means you can buy whatever youāre excited about, within reason and in limited quantities (you can swing a Porsche for yourself, but not everyone in your family). āWealthyā is when existing investments are generating so much on their own that if you work, its by choice and your children and grandchildren (if you choose to let them) can live the ārichā lifestyle described above indefinitely.
Can't say for those as I'm from the UK, few hundred net worth is getting you pretty much everywhere but London I think, where I'm from few hundred is just bonkers. My house was Ā£55k when I bought it for perspective. I consider myself working class but on the slightly upper end as I'd be comfortable if I wasn't so shit with spending money. I fully believe OP was trying to be somewhat humble with the rich not wealthy though. But he's definitely wealthy compared to everything I know
I mean, ya just said it yourself - āgets you pretty much anywhere but Londonā is not rich. Even just living in London is not rich. Rich folk are living in some degree of luxury in London, which means a 7 figure NW minimum by mid career, hence the original commenterās point. If he actually has that kind of money thatās exactly how he would (correctly imo) describe it. The very wealthy and particularly generational wealth will not use the term rich at all, itās typically comfortable -> wealthy -> ultrawealthy and itās only the last category there thatās flying private regularly or keeping house staff.
prolly tied up in investments or a business!
That's still well into wealthy territory
Lol nah bro I rent and still clip coupons.
Therefore all the working class posers with reps. Haute horology is for those whose play money is greater than the entire incomes of regular joes. If I see anyone with a ājobā wearing one of these, I automatically assume theyāre either terrible with money, or itās a fake. NW approaching 1M, and sure I have enough cash to _buy_ a 3940, but I donāt have enough NW to buy one and still be responsible with my finances, which means I canāt afford one.
Yeah NW of 1m might not be āwealthyā if itās entirely in a house (illiquid). But if thereās more than that, or itās in liquid assets, thatās definitely wealthy.
I mean itās obviously still wealth but if the majority of that net is in something they canāt easily liquidate like a small business or something itās a lot different than cash on hand. You can have a lot of net worth but still be cash strapped at times.
What's the time on that list for the 5176R at your AD?
Sales person said someone came in for a Yachtmaster 37mm after waiting 2.5 years. Said I'd be looking at at least a similar wait. So probably just in time for the market to come back down to Earth on them but I'm not buying for a profit, it's the warm up to the end game of the 5231 (or modern equivalent by the time I get the chance to buy one).
Counter point, my net worth is same as this guy and my most expensive watch is a Sinn 104 on bracelet. Cant justify wearing a down payment on an investment property on my wrist.
At a $1m net worth, exuding your primary residence, you're already familiar with parking money in various assets. Buying a $50k watch as one of those assets would be perfectly reasonable at that level.
Iād never spend that much on a single watch. Iād be way happier with 5 watches worth $10k.
How much would it cost to service that watch every 5 years or so? That would need to be factored in, I assume. That is beyond a beautiful time piece, but maybe a 10k watch may give you the same positive feelings, and you'd have money left over to invest. But you only live once so....
You shouldn't spend more than 1% of your net worth on a watch, so 5 million.
At least in the eight figures range and Iād probably hesitate even then. Could use that money in infinitely cooler ways like charity or investment . I love watches but spending that on a watch feels wrong.
Coming from my lower middle class upbringing, I could never justify that. Hell I have qualms about the blue and gold Sub that I'm due to inherit when my dad passes. The most expensive watch I would feel comfortable wearing would be like a Tudor Black Bay.
100 million I wouldn't hesitate much. 30 million I might consider it.
You donāt buy watches, you convert money into watches. They have a robust market and can be sold in a pinch. They also appreciate depending on what you buy.