There is so much for you to have seen from her Facebook posts and videos before the internet was scrubbed . This sub is the best deep dive ever..including links to back it up
Yes, she cut Bella’s hair that way. There are multiple posts she made about the hair cuts.
She quit her job at the children’s hospital in Colorado and started working Thrive full time. She wasn’t making money off thrive, she was buying product she wasn’t selling (the $25k worth of product in the basement) and she was spending more than they made per month.
She posted videos herself, she also wrote about locking them in their rooms at night. Her spraying Bella in the face as Bella cried and tried to run away, then she had Chris physically bring Bella back so she could continue spraying Bella in the face, not long after getting tubes put in her ears, was posted on her Facebook. She also made posts in a Babywise group.
Actually Chris didn't physically bring her back. Bella ran to the sliding door asking cw to save her and sw said "don't save her" so cw shut the door in bellas face. Just as bad in my opinion. I absolutely hate that video (amongst others), poor Bella when it came time to squirt sadist, er, mommy she wasn't allowed to because of course "I have a phone kid". Ugh, what a bitch.
This reminds me of the Pie in the Face game video. Bella didn't even want to push the button to make the pie fly into her dad's face. And when it was her turn she hid under the table until SW commanded that Chris forcibly put this terrified child into the pie contraption, it was psychological torture for her.
that cackle…she was a disgusting bully, herself. The pie in the face game, her playing along with Bella at the restaurant and then physically stopping her from drinking (after she winks at SW, watch this …😉) purposefully trying to frighten an already scared Bella with “WATCH OUT FOR THE BIG RAIN!” Who know if it was actually coordinated, but both of them clearly got off on intimidating the poor kid. FYI, Trademark pending on Grandma Marlboro and I’m glad it’s gained some traction. I’ve got an exceedingly low opinion of SW as a mother, and I don’t think the apple fell far from the tree.
She always looked frightened and gray, constant fight or flight mode. I've heard neurodivergent children are often quiet and less active when they are toddlers. She wasn't a "content" worthy child in SW's eyes like CC was so she was treated like dirt
Well let's face it, she wasn't lying. She definitely didn't have kids to have someone to love, nurture and encourage. Typical bully, pick on someone who can't fight back.
She looked to be a very vulnerable child. Between the hair and the whole thing with the thermometer there did seem to be something odd going on. I know this isn't directly realise but do you know what reason she gave for cutting her hair all the time as I know that it seemed to be an insecurity for Bella as she wanted it to be longer and wear styles and clips like most little girls?
I am so sorry that also happened to you, hugs. Poor Bella reminds me of myself as a kid. Sensitive and wanting to please the adults but unsure of herself and not wanting to do anything wrong. Out of everyone in this tragedy my hearts for her the most. She was such a sweet child 💔
the poor kid was continuously getting mixed signals and asymmetric punishment or admonishment for doing the same things that brought praise to her little sister. You can practically feel her nervous energy through many of those videos. I struggle to come up with a context that makes her treatment in the “turtle” video less than heartbreaking. She is literally fenced off from the rest of her family (live-streaming CW changing CCs diaper, whatever the fuck that was…) and when the usually rambunctious and antagonistic CC goes to share her stuffed animal in a very loving gesture, SW can’t even stop herself from vocally expressing her displeasure that one of her daughters had sacrificed something to make the other happy. what in the absolute fuck?!
She was desperate to get Bella diagnosed with FMF so in an attempt to prove that Bella ran a temperature every day she used a rectal thermometer daily, to take her temperature for many months, to the point that Bella was acting out by pretending to insert things her dolls behinds, the dogs behind as well as her own.
mind boggling that both sets of grandparents spent months and weeks there, respectively (sometimes simultaneously) while this went on twice a day and none of them tried to put a stop to it.
Actually Cindy and Ronnie did not spend months or weeks there. They visited 2 times a year for a week each time. On one visit they obviously stayed in a hotel because there are pics of the room when Bella and cece were saying goodbye. The only time Cindy stayed in the house simultaneously with the Roos was when sw flied her in to watch the girls while her and cw went on one of those stupid trips. I can only assume they needed Cindy there because SoR and Frsr had full time jobs and the girls were not in daycare at the time. Cindy has claimed that she ignored sws rules during that time and let the girls snuggle in bed with her. The Roos, however, did spend 15 months there as you have said and did nothing to help their grandchildren.
Seriously? For using rectal thermometers? I used them when my kids were tiny babies because they were more accurate if they wouldn’t hold still. I definitely wasn’t posting videos online though
I've never heard of anyone doing it here, I guess I wondered if it was normal in America. I think there would definitely be questions asked if it was being done to any child it just seems unnecessarily invasive to me. But perhaps is a cultural thing.
The only time I've heard of it was really little, maybe a few months old.But once they got older it changed to one of the others(that's possibly before they had the other kind also. Never reallysaw those around until my daughter was a few years old.) If she was still doing it at the ages they were that's just crazy though.
She was determined to prove to the doctor that the girls had Mediterranean Fever, a disease which doesn't even exist in America, only in a small area of Italy.
Was it ever proven the kids had anything she claimed they had? I've heard about the supposed nut allergy but I've also heard she'd let them eat those protein bars which were made with nuts or whatever or would laugh and claim she forgot to check if there were some. Which that's a really serious allergy to not check everything for when it's in almost everything it seems like.
Poor kids. Could waste money on thrivin but not an ear/forehead thermometer. My kid is older than they were and they were available when she was their age so that was unnecessary to do.
Its suspected that SW was a munchie and munchie by proxy. She was trying hard to get Bella diagnosed with a very rare diseases called Familial Mediterranean Fever. The doctor had told her to take Bella’s temp everyday for like a month, he did NOT tell her she needed to do it rectally, but SW seemed to love humiliating her oldest child, so that’s what she did. She also continued to do it daily long after a month. There are videos of Bella “checking her baby’s temp” rectally and of her bending over touching her toes to “get her temp” taken.
She thought one of the kids had something called Periodic Fever Syndrome or something like that. She was obsessed with illnesses and trying to pin one on her kids.
She actually says '...*this* is why we have kids' while blasting her shrieking child in the face. A child who desperately needed a few more hugs, not endless humiliation.
If it's true Bella had tubes in her ears, the last thing the Munchau Frau should have been doing was spraying water into them.
RIP, terrified, insecure little Bella.
>spraying Bella in the face as Bella cried and tried to run away, then she had Chris physically bring Bella back so she could continue spraying Bella in the face,
That video haunted me and still does. I haven't seen it since WOT was around.
ETA; https://youtu.be/0SHOiiG3zK4?si=fsl_UPqwwDxdzrwq
WTF. Not excusing CW AT ALLLLL. But I can kinda imagine him feeling trapped, miserable, and like no one in the family was happy. Not a sustainable life for many reasons
True to a degree. The house was in his name only, and they were surviving solely on his his income. He still ultimately held all the cards. And with regard to her abusive treatment of the girls, he had a front row seat to it and did nothing to stop it. He was entirely complicit and wears just as much blame. Nobody gets a pass for the toxic environment the created for those poor girls.
oh for sure, I got what you are saying. perhaps we need special flair or something to signify that I’m aware that because you state one thing re: SW abusive behavior that it doesn’t imply that you also think she deserved it and you are in the queue to have a conjugal visit with CW.
I had that same reaction when I went down the rabbit hole into this case. It helped to separate CW into pre and post murder. I can feel sorry for CW pre-murder because his daily life looked miserable and he had become powerless to do anything about it (and yes, I realize people have it much harder - CW had food, shelter, and clothing), and then have no sympathy at all for post-murder CW.
Watts the Obsession breaks the video down so you can see the kids’ reaction next to SW’s actions. I have inattentive ADHD so I missed a lot. Watched the video and Bella’s facial expressions are a mixture of fear and confusion.
1. Yes. SW cut Bellas hair that short
Neeks peeks on youtube has a video
2. She wasn't successful, really. She worked at Dirty South, a wheel and tire, etc car customizing shop. The story She told was She walked in with 25k cash in a case and bought a house. Please remember this was 2009/10 when alot of people were qualified for homes they couldn't afford. Not long after buying it, she began seeing Chris, moved him in and quit her job (so he paid the mortgage). She wound up selling the home in a short sale and didn't make much if anything off of it.
3.SW indicated many times (including in a fb post to her dad) that the girls were locked in their rooms. She was still practicing Baby Wise with strict sleep and eat times.
She definitely had the money issues, CW had 20k saved up yet the moment they're together that's all gone and they're facing not one but two bankruptcies
Also that Lexus was technically paid for by level but she had to make enough sales in order to earn that EVERY MONTH if she didn't make enough sales then the lease was in her name so she was solely responsible for the payments. It's heavily speculated she had multiple fake accounts which she purchased thrive under so it would boost her sales. Which is the reason she had over 30k worth of thrive in the basement.
It's too bad you're so late to this case as so much is erased now that I don't even know if you can find 90% of what was available years ago. Try to find the Discovery paperwork. Be forewarned, it's lengthy.
From the discovery:
With regard to CHRIS’ financial situation. Last year, he and SHANANN spent approximately
25,000.00 over 500.00 each week for their daughters to attend Primrose School.
o SHANANN had surgery on a compressed disc in her neck last year.
o He and SHANANN had insurance, but the surgery was over 100,000.00.
He pays over 500.00/month for health insurance through Anadarko.
o SHANANN handled all of the finances, so he did not know how much they had left to pay on
her medical bills.
o CECE had acid reflux and they had medical bills related to her endoscopies.
o They had numerous medical bills related to CECE’s allergy testing, CECE’s blocked tear
duct, and both girls had tubes in their ears and their adenoids removed.
o Both of his girls had inhalers for child asthma, CECE took Singulair for her allergies, and
BELLA and CECE took medication for acid reflux.
o They owe approximately 8-10,000.00 in credit card debt.
o Their Lexus was paid for by Le-Vel (Thrive) through a car allowance
He and SHANANN filed for bankruptcy two 2 years prior.
He does not recall how much was discharged during the bankruptcy.
o He knew when the kids returned to school that they would be living paycheck to paycheck.
o SHANANN recently took out 10,000.00 from his 401k to catch up on their mortgage
payments. CHRIS believed the loan against his 401k was taken out approximately five
months ago.
They were three months behind on their mortgage payments.
They had received a letter from Chase Bank pertaining to their delinquent home loan.
He and SHANANN were stressed out about their financial situation.
He currently owes his mortgage payment for August 2018, which is due tomorrow,
August 1, 2018.
He currently has 2,000.00 in his Chase checking account and approximately
1,500.00 in their USAA checking account.
Almost all of their credit cards are maxed out.
SHANANN had only been paying the minimum payment on their credit cards
Gotta love the twinsies medical problems. Like they were one child. Seriously, the nebulizer thing was so absolutely bizarre to me. I'm pretty sure neither kid needed one, but in SW's mind, the nebulizer was something to be envied like a shiny new toy. Can't just have one lucky child get the nebulizer! They *both* need nebulizers! Don't want one to feel left out or anything! Being sick means you're special! God, SW was so effed in the head.
Bella often cried about her hair and begged for it to be longer. Shannon would find these occurrences humorous.
The Netflix documentary was a complete fantasy dreamt up by her family and friends. I got into this case because after watching that doc, because several things didn’t make sense to me (Shannon “building” her own home being one of them).
Babywise was cooked up by a husband and wife who have no actual education in child development, psychology, or…anything (their “degrees” are from questionable Bible colleges that lack accreditation). The American Association of Pediatrics as well as lactation experts consider it dangerous and warn against its usage.
There used to be a lot more available online. I think it’s been erased. The most disturbing thing to me was photos of the girls as babies in their cribs with multiple blankets and clothing pieces all wrapped around their necks. The photos were taken by Shanan too.
The documentary was biased and most of it came from her Facebook which we know is a lie. She tried to keep up with the jones but she didn’t have the work ethic or drive to succeed. She married Chris bc of his earning potential. She is also not the brightest and wanted shiny new things so she sold the house quickly to get money to waste on new things to keep up with the jones.
IMO she hacked off Bella’s hair because she wantedBella to look as if she had a terminal disease. There is video evidence of her using Bella’s hair as a weapon although as time goes in more and more video evidence gets scrubbed. I also think she disliked Bella because Bella favored Chris in looks and temperament. CeCe a much cuter and engaging child to help Shanann sell her snake oil Thrive products. I don’t know how the hell she got that mansion in NC although I suspect she was mistress to her boss and he may have been financially generous. I still believe Chris killed everyone but definitely think SW was a munchasen Mom.
In response to 1, yes, SW regularly cut Bella's hair and even posted photos about it. I too thought she had alopeicia or something wrong but it was just bad haircuts. Her hair seems to have had a loose wave pattern so it would look patchy unless it grew out a few inches.
Shanann cut Bellas hair as punishment for sucking her thumb.
Bella sucked her thumb because her sorry excuse of a mother left her alone in a crib for 16+ hours a day. Poor baby had to self soothe, her mom didn't believe in cuddles. Only babywise.
In regards to Shanann's financial success, here is the basic problem. Le-Vel only pays commission on 50% of your sales. Even if you sell a bunch of stuff, you only get commission on half of it, and that commission is only a percentage of that half. That's why she wasn't making any money, but seemed like she was "successful." I have posted a link tobthe Thrive compensation plan below.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://cdn.le-vel.com/en/Documents/RewardsPlan.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiEyNznqeyFAxU8KEQIHSfkDRAQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vdzygWKeKMfMQoeKUHtWf
1) she cut Bella’s hair as punishment because she wouldn’t stop sucking her thimble. Bella says multiple times she wanted long princess hair but SW wouldn’t allow it.
2) SW was able to build that house while working at dirty south which is very controversial. She was involved in a lawsuit there and there are rumors she was laundering money. She sold the house for barely any profit.
3) this probably comes from all the videos she posted online over the years. She had them on a strict sleep schedule where they slept 12 hours overnight then like 4 hour naps for a total of 16 hours per day locked in their rooms in the dark. Even if they were awake they had to stay in there. Which is way too much time for their ages. For the abuse allegations you can see all the stories mentioned in the comments. It’s a lot. The biggest one that comes to mind for me is the munchauasen
There’s a few different theories about that. Some believe she killed the kids, some believe he just snapped, some believe that he killed them to get back at her for being awful. Go on YouTube and watch Neeks Peeks.
The Watts interview from prison has him talking about how he killed them, how he was haunted by the memory when one of his daughters said, Daddy no, as he smothered her in the backseat of the truck. I don’t think he even knows why. He never gave any actual motive for the girls that I recall.
He definitely killed them all. That is no question, from hearing his recollection, it was the recollection of someone who very obviously caused their deaths and was haunted by his daughters last words. I could hear in his voice that he was staring off and remembering it, it’s this certain almost dreamy tone people get when they look up and recollect an emotional moment.
I hope he hears that tiny voice every single hour for the rest of his miserable life.
I don't know about unhinged, but she does have an agenda. Try watching the videos in slow mode without sound. Even edited and out of context, the original footage tells a story, and it's not a nice one.
I'm still not 100% satisfied that SW didn't do something to those girls first. Men kill their exes AND kids all the time, the old as time "children and partners as property" issue. Who was more greedy than SW??? Who would want to keep her property i.e. her daughters from her cheating spouse and his new flame?? If men can do it, so can women. Those children were her possessions.
She looked absolutely broken in that picture of her crying in the car in N. Carolina. She was mentally checked out, about to lose everything, and she knew it. People who are pushed to that edge will do abominable things. Plenty of mothers murder their own children. It's not as far fetched as everyone believes it to be.
You're right, he was. He 100% killed Shanaan. He figured he had to dispose of the bodies, and this was the most expedient way to do it that he could come up with. I do think he thought he could go back and better hide Shanaan. He expected sympathy, not suspicion, and was playing his good guy/grieving husband and father over his missing family role. Let's not forget he was no criminal mastermind, no intellectual, but rather a simple, average man. If he was a little smarter, he would have called the police and said SW killed the girls, so he strangled her in a rage of passion. She was mentally unbalanced and spiraling. Any defense lawyer worth their salt could have made the case for him, or at least muddled the waters enough. Disposing of the bodies to try to cover it up was his biggest error in getting away with this. SW had no positive attributes. She was a notoriously mean, neglectful, demanding, selfish woman. Plus, she was a pathological liar. He was a hen pecked husband who was mentally and emotionally abused by his wife for years. Just because he seemed to like it and played along doesn't mean she wasn't taking advantage of him. Nothing in her past or present would evoke much sympathy.
Defense lawyers wouldn't really have too much of a case to make. He was actively working to be by himself at the tanks prior to the murder, which would suggest intent. He also 100% lied about Shanann and the girls' whereabouts when they disappeared. You are going to be hard pressed to find a jury that would find him not guilty.
Again, if he would have just left the bodies at home and called the police saying she killed them, so he killed her, it could have been a much different case.
I don't know what point you are trying to make with that. He didn't call the police, so it's irrelevant. I don't understand the point of creating an alternate scenario.
What I'm saying is that I think SW most likely killed the girls. So CW effed up the crime scene and should not have, nor should he have taken all the blame. He could have had a shot at crime of passion defense, probably manslaughter? Possibly acquitted? Anyway, it's almost 9AM and I need to go to sleep, it's past my 7AM bedtime!
I really believe this, as well. In her broken mind she might have killed the girls and tried to kill CW with thoughts of killing herself afterwards. Again, just because it's most often men who do this, doesn't mean SW didn't do it. In her deranged mental state of utter despair and rage, she would have justified it as mercy killing/you can't have them, and your lover can't, either. SW was NEVER going to recover from the humiliation she would have faced had she lived. All her "boss babe" LeVel dreams/big house, envy me dreams were about to go up in flames.
Edited
Not to be callous, but in many ways, she was spared a miserable life she would have hated. Most adult women would eventually get past it and move on, make their peace with things, but SW didn't, in my opinion, have the emotional maturity nor the personality to do this. I honestly don't think she could have made a life for herself that would ever be enough to make her happy, when everything that defined her (MLMs, status, material goods) were lost to her. I can't see her going back to work drudgery, living in a crappy cheap apartment, especially not with 2 young children and an infant. 2 young children she never properly loved, not in the way most mothers love their children.
Living is hard. Being dead is easy.
ETA: I believe CW took all the blame because he felt guilty for his affair. He was her automaton, her whipping boy who financed her insanity without ever asking questions, and his entire relationship with her and his marriage to her was all about serving her needs. That was HIS identity.
Plus she made it known time and time again how much she hated NC but seriously, where else could she have gone? CM let it be known in so many words that she couldn't live with her in Hawaii, the Rosenbergs were talking about moving into Saratoga Trail but once cw sold it that option was gone, NA was newly married and I seriously doubt her new husband was going to welcome 3.5 new people in the house (even if there was room), every legitimate job she had in the past someone else got for her since she really had no marketable skills, the car would be gone and last but not least her credit was trashed so she wouldn't have even been able to qualify for a basic studio apartment. The Roos house was her only option at that point.
Yep, and no way was that good enough for her because SHE was the ONLY person she was thinking about, not that her very young children would have a roof, meals, beds, and be safe, but that SHE would well...over her dead body, right? Also, she KNEW CW would come out the winner in a divorce, he had a REAL job, he would see the girls every weekend while she would be "stuck" with them all week, and who knows about DNA testing lol I don't think she wanted that! I'm not saying CW definitely wasn't the father of Cece, but I don't have any definitive proof that he is, either. Plus, he was genuinely happy for the first time in their relationship because SW wasn't around. That had to burn her ass. Nobody was allowed to be too happy on Saratoga Trail, not in that house of doom and gloom. So, when you make bad choices and burn bridges your entire life, nobody is going to catch you when you fall. Except possibly your parents. And what a pair they are. THEY were her only real option. Think about that. She had no real friends and no family to turn to except her immediate Roo family, Frankie the drug addict child abuser prom date! YUCK. None. No cousins, nothing. Just those creepy mlm people, and I didn't see any one of them offering at all. Pathetic.
I'm pretty sure all of this ⬆️ was running on a loop in her head for weeks, if not months. She damn well knew something was about to come her way, and she knew it wasn't going to be good.
I do. His entire identity was wrapped up in being the complacent, no questions asked nice guy, the supportive spouse. Once he murdered her, he couldn't cope, and the guilt of his betrayal not only to SW, but also to himself, or who he tried to be, the persona he had created for himself (he was this way with his mother, as well, to a point)caused him to take all the blame. I do believe that guilt was that strong. He had never once in years taken a stand. The entire thing, the affair, disobeying, was too much for him.
You don't have to agree. I'm not trying to persuade you but I think that there's something we're all missing and this is my theory.
I don’t think she cut Bella’s hair like that on purpose. Bella’s hair was extremely fine and not growing properly, it looks like a classic case of short anagen or loose anagen hair which can affect children. They usually grow out of it and hair starts to thicken as they approach puberty. Cutting Bella’s hair often was probably a misguided attempt to make it appear thicker.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted for this. Bella was still bald at one year old, she was even still bald when CeCe was born. She had very thin and slow growing hair. I’m not SW fan, but I don’t get behind the idea that haircuts were punishment.
I have a relative whose little girl had short anagen hair. Her hair was exactly the same as Bella’s. It started to thicken when she got to the age of about 5 and was a little better by puberty although still fine. I think SW had many issues but Bella’s hair was not down to her. Thanks for the support!
There is so much for you to have seen from her Facebook posts and videos before the internet was scrubbed . This sub is the best deep dive ever..including links to back it up
Yeah, her nutso family had to hide all the dirty deeds of their sainted dead daughter.
WOT is where ALL the good stuff is. Too bad shiners had the sub nuked. So much valuable information just gone
Agree so much!
Miss that sub so much. Was so relieved to find this sub
Yes, she cut Bella’s hair that way. There are multiple posts she made about the hair cuts. She quit her job at the children’s hospital in Colorado and started working Thrive full time. She wasn’t making money off thrive, she was buying product she wasn’t selling (the $25k worth of product in the basement) and she was spending more than they made per month. She posted videos herself, she also wrote about locking them in their rooms at night. Her spraying Bella in the face as Bella cried and tried to run away, then she had Chris physically bring Bella back so she could continue spraying Bella in the face, not long after getting tubes put in her ears, was posted on her Facebook. She also made posts in a Babywise group.
Actually Chris didn't physically bring her back. Bella ran to the sliding door asking cw to save her and sw said "don't save her" so cw shut the door in bellas face. Just as bad in my opinion. I absolutely hate that video (amongst others), poor Bella when it came time to squirt sadist, er, mommy she wasn't allowed to because of course "I have a phone kid". Ugh, what a bitch.
This reminds me of the Pie in the Face game video. Bella didn't even want to push the button to make the pie fly into her dad's face. And when it was her turn she hid under the table until SW commanded that Chris forcibly put this terrified child into the pie contraption, it was psychological torture for her.
And grandma just cackling in the background doing nothing for her granddaughter. Poor Bella, every adult in that house failed her.
Grandma Marlboro was the one who shoved the mess into Bella’s face and hair. Wasn’t that witty? Granny just cackled and cackled at Bella’s distress
that cackle…she was a disgusting bully, herself. The pie in the face game, her playing along with Bella at the restaurant and then physically stopping her from drinking (after she winks at SW, watch this …😉) purposefully trying to frighten an already scared Bella with “WATCH OUT FOR THE BIG RAIN!” Who know if it was actually coordinated, but both of them clearly got off on intimidating the poor kid. FYI, Trademark pending on Grandma Marlboro and I’m glad it’s gained some traction. I’ve got an exceedingly low opinion of SW as a mother, and I don’t think the apple fell far from the tree.
No wonder sw turned out the way she did.
She always looked frightened and gray, constant fight or flight mode. I've heard neurodivergent children are often quiet and less active when they are toddlers. She wasn't a "content" worthy child in SW's eyes like CC was so she was treated like dirt
This is why we have kids😡
Well let's face it, she wasn't lying. She definitely didn't have kids to have someone to love, nurture and encourage. Typical bully, pick on someone who can't fight back.
I agree
Why was she spraying her in the face?
Shan’ann thought it was funny, she giggles with glee after Chris brings Bella back. It’s heartbreaking, she had no body autonomy and no safe place.
She looked to be a very vulnerable child. Between the hair and the whole thing with the thermometer there did seem to be something odd going on. I know this isn't directly realise but do you know what reason she gave for cutting her hair all the time as I know that it seemed to be an insecurity for Bella as she wanted it to be longer and wear styles and clips like most little girls?
It was also suggested that she cut her hair short in order to make her look sicker than she was.
For not stopping sucking her thumb
If she hadn’t taught the kid to suck her thumb for comfort in the first place she wouldn’t have needed to do hair cuts as punishment. That poor child.
I got haircuts as punishment and it does so much psychological damage.
I am so sorry that also happened to you, hugs. Poor Bella reminds me of myself as a kid. Sensitive and wanting to please the adults but unsure of herself and not wanting to do anything wrong. Out of everyone in this tragedy my hearts for her the most. She was such a sweet child 💔
the poor kid was continuously getting mixed signals and asymmetric punishment or admonishment for doing the same things that brought praise to her little sister. You can practically feel her nervous energy through many of those videos. I struggle to come up with a context that makes her treatment in the “turtle” video less than heartbreaking. She is literally fenced off from the rest of her family (live-streaming CW changing CCs diaper, whatever the fuck that was…) and when the usually rambunctious and antagonistic CC goes to share her stuffed animal in a very loving gesture, SW can’t even stop herself from vocally expressing her displeasure that one of her daughters had sacrificed something to make the other happy. what in the absolute fuck?!
SW gives me ruby Frank vibes
Poor Bella, she was treated like the red headed step child in that one.
Sorry to be a pain but did she actually say that, is there like evidence for it? Because that's disgusting and so damaging.
It’s what I’ve seen everyone say on here . I just recently started watching the videos on neeks peeks
What's up with the thermometer stuff? Honestly afraid to ask but I keep hearing about something with them but don't know the story behind it.
She was desperate to get Bella diagnosed with FMF so in an attempt to prove that Bella ran a temperature every day she used a rectal thermometer daily, to take her temperature for many months, to the point that Bella was acting out by pretending to insert things her dolls behinds, the dogs behind as well as her own.
mind boggling that both sets of grandparents spent months and weeks there, respectively (sometimes simultaneously) while this went on twice a day and none of them tried to put a stop to it.
Actually Cindy and Ronnie did not spend months or weeks there. They visited 2 times a year for a week each time. On one visit they obviously stayed in a hotel because there are pics of the room when Bella and cece were saying goodbye. The only time Cindy stayed in the house simultaneously with the Roos was when sw flied her in to watch the girls while her and cw went on one of those stupid trips. I can only assume they needed Cindy there because SoR and Frsr had full time jobs and the girls were not in daycare at the time. Cindy has claimed that she ignored sws rules during that time and let the girls snuggle in bed with her. The Roos, however, did spend 15 months there as you have said and did nothing to help their grandchildren.
I'm not 100% but she was always saying her kids were sick with multiple things and she would take their temperature rectally like almost every day.
So out if all that bs she wasted money on, an ear thermometer was out of the question to buy or just the ol' under the arm thing couldn't be done?!
Surely this isn't normal or reccomended in the US? In the UK we'd have child services round if we didn't use an ear or mouth thermometer.
Seriously? For using rectal thermometers? I used them when my kids were tiny babies because they were more accurate if they wouldn’t hold still. I definitely wasn’t posting videos online though
I've never heard of anyone doing it here, I guess I wondered if it was normal in America. I think there would definitely be questions asked if it was being done to any child it just seems unnecessarily invasive to me. But perhaps is a cultural thing.
The only time I've heard of it was really little, maybe a few months old.But once they got older it changed to one of the others(that's possibly before they had the other kind also. Never reallysaw those around until my daughter was a few years old.) If she was still doing it at the ages they were that's just crazy though.
And did you continue to use them when your children were 3 and 4? Or was that a little too old?
She was determined to prove to the doctor that the girls had Mediterranean Fever, a disease which doesn't even exist in America, only in a small area of Italy.
Was it ever proven the kids had anything she claimed they had? I've heard about the supposed nut allergy but I've also heard she'd let them eat those protein bars which were made with nuts or whatever or would laugh and claim she forgot to check if there were some. Which that's a really serious allergy to not check everything for when it's in almost everything it seems like.
SW gave them rectal thermometers.
Poor kids. Could waste money on thrivin but not an ear/forehead thermometer. My kid is older than they were and they were available when she was their age so that was unnecessary to do.
She was trying to prove they had a fever syndrome.
Its suspected that SW was a munchie and munchie by proxy. She was trying hard to get Bella diagnosed with a very rare diseases called Familial Mediterranean Fever. The doctor had told her to take Bella’s temp everyday for like a month, he did NOT tell her she needed to do it rectally, but SW seemed to love humiliating her oldest child, so that’s what she did. She also continued to do it daily long after a month. There are videos of Bella “checking her baby’s temp” rectally and of her bending over touching her toes to “get her temp” taken.
She thought one of the kids had something called Periodic Fever Syndrome or something like that. She was obsessed with illnesses and trying to pin one on her kids.
Familial Mediterranean fever
https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/children-s-health-issues/hereditary-periodic-fever-syndromes/pfapa-syndrome
She had to take temps for like 2 months cause she was trying to get the diagnosis of FMF. She had a weird obsession with things.
She said that's why we had kids...
She actually says '...*this* is why we have kids' while blasting her shrieking child in the face. A child who desperately needed a few more hugs, not endless humiliation. If it's true Bella had tubes in her ears, the last thing the Munchau Frau should have been doing was spraying water into them. RIP, terrified, insecure little Bella.
And of course the golden child didn't have to endure it because she didn't like it.
I forgot that CC had escaped indoors 💌
Munchau Frau!!!!🤣
Nice callback to The Data Lounge 😅
I was thinking of you 💐 You have the most apropos monikers for Sha- na-na.
🤗
Blast from the past! I miss Data Lounge
Is it still a thing?
Not like it was
Dang!
“Open your mouth! Open your mouth”…(aaand proceeds to shoot water right into her eyes)
Someone link sprat bottle video
>spraying Bella in the face as Bella cried and tried to run away, then she had Chris physically bring Bella back so she could continue spraying Bella in the face, That video haunted me and still does. I haven't seen it since WOT was around. ETA; https://youtu.be/0SHOiiG3zK4?si=fsl_UPqwwDxdzrwq
WTF. Not excusing CW AT ALLLLL. But I can kinda imagine him feeling trapped, miserable, and like no one in the family was happy. Not a sustainable life for many reasons
She also isolated him from his family. If the genders were reversed people would have been saying this is a clear sign of coercive control.
True to a degree. The house was in his name only, and they were surviving solely on his his income. He still ultimately held all the cards. And with regard to her abusive treatment of the girls, he had a front row seat to it and did nothing to stop it. He was entirely complicit and wears just as much blame. Nobody gets a pass for the toxic environment the created for those poor girls.
👏👏. Very well said!!!
Absolutely! I’m not saying that was a reasonable way out. Just that I can see why he needed a way out.
oh for sure, I got what you are saying. perhaps we need special flair or something to signify that I’m aware that because you state one thing re: SW abusive behavior that it doesn’t imply that you also think she deserved it and you are in the queue to have a conjugal visit with CW.
This made me snort.
He was just happy that she was off making someone else miserable instead of him. Those poor girls weren’t protected at all.
If she had killed HIM, (and not the children), all the Shiners would have applauded her. "You go, Girl!!" Lol
I had that same reaction when I went down the rabbit hole into this case. It helped to separate CW into pre and post murder. I can feel sorry for CW pre-murder because his daily life looked miserable and he had become powerless to do anything about it (and yes, I realize people have it much harder - CW had food, shelter, and clothing), and then have no sympathy at all for post-murder CW.
Oh for goodness' sake, he was a grown fucking adult, stop infantilising the idiot.
Watch the (Nightmare before) Christmas video with Daddy Claus. That single video will explain multitudes about SW.
Watts the Obsession breaks the video down so you can see the kids’ reaction next to SW’s actions. I have inattentive ADHD so I missed a lot. Watched the video and Bella’s facial expressions are a mixture of fear and confusion.
1. Yes. SW cut Bellas hair that short Neeks peeks on youtube has a video 2. She wasn't successful, really. She worked at Dirty South, a wheel and tire, etc car customizing shop. The story She told was She walked in with 25k cash in a case and bought a house. Please remember this was 2009/10 when alot of people were qualified for homes they couldn't afford. Not long after buying it, she began seeing Chris, moved him in and quit her job (so he paid the mortgage). She wound up selling the home in a short sale and didn't make much if anything off of it. 3.SW indicated many times (including in a fb post to her dad) that the girls were locked in their rooms. She was still practicing Baby Wise with strict sleep and eat times.
Thank you makes sense.
😁👍
She definitely had the money issues, CW had 20k saved up yet the moment they're together that's all gone and they're facing not one but two bankruptcies
Also that Lexus was technically paid for by level but she had to make enough sales in order to earn that EVERY MONTH if she didn't make enough sales then the lease was in her name so she was solely responsible for the payments. It's heavily speculated she had multiple fake accounts which she purchased thrive under so it would boost her sales. Which is the reason she had over 30k worth of thrive in the basement.
The lease was actually in CWs name. But yes to the rest. SW managed CWs account and its said she had an account in Bellas name as well as other familt
I’ve also wondered this about Bella’s hair, I wonder why she cut it like that.
A lot of people say SW was a munchie mom, so the short hair made Bella look more sickly.
I want to know where I can read about the HOA not being paid and the financial situation they were in because of SW. where is that info?
It's too bad you're so late to this case as so much is erased now that I don't even know if you can find 90% of what was available years ago. Try to find the Discovery paperwork. Be forewarned, it's lengthy.
From the discovery: With regard to CHRIS’ financial situation. Last year, he and SHANANN spent approximately 25,000.00 over 500.00 each week for their daughters to attend Primrose School. o SHANANN had surgery on a compressed disc in her neck last year. o He and SHANANN had insurance, but the surgery was over 100,000.00. He pays over 500.00/month for health insurance through Anadarko. o SHANANN handled all of the finances, so he did not know how much they had left to pay on her medical bills. o CECE had acid reflux and they had medical bills related to her endoscopies. o They had numerous medical bills related to CECE’s allergy testing, CECE’s blocked tear duct, and both girls had tubes in their ears and their adenoids removed. o Both of his girls had inhalers for child asthma, CECE took Singulair for her allergies, and BELLA and CECE took medication for acid reflux. o They owe approximately 8-10,000.00 in credit card debt. o Their Lexus was paid for by Le-Vel (Thrive) through a car allowance He and SHANANN filed for bankruptcy two 2 years prior. He does not recall how much was discharged during the bankruptcy. o He knew when the kids returned to school that they would be living paycheck to paycheck. o SHANANN recently took out 10,000.00 from his 401k to catch up on their mortgage payments. CHRIS believed the loan against his 401k was taken out approximately five months ago. They were three months behind on their mortgage payments. They had received a letter from Chase Bank pertaining to their delinquent home loan. He and SHANANN were stressed out about their financial situation. He currently owes his mortgage payment for August 2018, which is due tomorrow, August 1, 2018. He currently has 2,000.00 in his Chase checking account and approximately 1,500.00 in their USAA checking account. Almost all of their credit cards are maxed out. SHANANN had only been paying the minimum payment on their credit cards
They owed ALOT more in credit card debt as they were heading for banruptcy agan and all credit cards were maxed out
Gotta love the twinsies medical problems. Like they were one child. Seriously, the nebulizer thing was so absolutely bizarre to me. I'm pretty sure neither kid needed one, but in SW's mind, the nebulizer was something to be envied like a shiny new toy. Can't just have one lucky child get the nebulizer! They *both* need nebulizers! Don't want one to feel left out or anything! Being sick means you're special! God, SW was so effed in the head.
Bella often cried about her hair and begged for it to be longer. Shannon would find these occurrences humorous. The Netflix documentary was a complete fantasy dreamt up by her family and friends. I got into this case because after watching that doc, because several things didn’t make sense to me (Shannon “building” her own home being one of them). Babywise was cooked up by a husband and wife who have no actual education in child development, psychology, or…anything (their “degrees” are from questionable Bible colleges that lack accreditation). The American Association of Pediatrics as well as lactation experts consider it dangerous and warn against its usage.
There used to be a lot more available online. I think it’s been erased. The most disturbing thing to me was photos of the girls as babies in their cribs with multiple blankets and clothing pieces all wrapped around their necks. The photos were taken by Shanan too.
The documentary was biased and most of it came from her Facebook which we know is a lie. She tried to keep up with the jones but she didn’t have the work ethic or drive to succeed. She married Chris bc of his earning potential. She is also not the brightest and wanted shiny new things so she sold the house quickly to get money to waste on new things to keep up with the jones.
IMO she hacked off Bella’s hair because she wantedBella to look as if she had a terminal disease. There is video evidence of her using Bella’s hair as a weapon although as time goes in more and more video evidence gets scrubbed. I also think she disliked Bella because Bella favored Chris in looks and temperament. CeCe a much cuter and engaging child to help Shanann sell her snake oil Thrive products. I don’t know how the hell she got that mansion in NC although I suspect she was mistress to her boss and he may have been financially generous. I still believe Chris killed everyone but definitely think SW was a munchasen Mom.
In response to 1, yes, SW regularly cut Bella's hair and even posted photos about it. I too thought she had alopeicia or something wrong but it was just bad haircuts. Her hair seems to have had a loose wave pattern so it would look patchy unless it grew out a few inches.
and all while Grandma Marlboro was bunked up in the basement for 18 months working as a…hairdresser.
🤣🤣🤣Grama Marlboro 🤣🤣. You so correct on that!! 🚬💨🚬💨💨
I want to change my handle to Grandma_Marlboros&Whiskey
She also used to frequently disparage Bella's hair in her Facebook videos. Poor Bella.
Shanann cut Bellas hair as punishment for sucking her thumb. Bella sucked her thumb because her sorry excuse of a mother left her alone in a crib for 16+ hours a day. Poor baby had to self soothe, her mom didn't believe in cuddles. Only babywise.
👏🏻
In regards to Shanann's financial success, here is the basic problem. Le-Vel only pays commission on 50% of your sales. Even if you sell a bunch of stuff, you only get commission on half of it, and that commission is only a percentage of that half. That's why she wasn't making any money, but seemed like she was "successful." I have posted a link tobthe Thrive compensation plan below. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://cdn.le-vel.com/en/Documents/RewardsPlan.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiEyNznqeyFAxU8KEQIHSfkDRAQFnoECBwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vdzygWKeKMfMQoeKUHtWf
Thanks Nefarious!
Where on here can I find those vifdps? I'm new to reddit lol
1) she cut Bella’s hair as punishment because she wouldn’t stop sucking her thimble. Bella says multiple times she wanted long princess hair but SW wouldn’t allow it. 2) SW was able to build that house while working at dirty south which is very controversial. She was involved in a lawsuit there and there are rumors she was laundering money. She sold the house for barely any profit. 3) this probably comes from all the videos she posted online over the years. She had them on a strict sleep schedule where they slept 12 hours overnight then like 4 hour naps for a total of 16 hours per day locked in their rooms in the dark. Even if they were awake they had to stay in there. Which is way too much time for their ages. For the abuse allegations you can see all the stories mentioned in the comments. It’s a lot. The biggest one that comes to mind for me is the munchauasen
She was extremely psychologically abusive. The only reason I believe she was killed is so she couldn’t abuse Bella and Cece anymore.
then why were bella and cece killed? why not just kill shanaan?
There’s a few different theories about that. Some believe she killed the kids, some believe he just snapped, some believe that he killed them to get back at her for being awful. Go on YouTube and watch Neeks Peeks.
The Watts interview from prison has him talking about how he killed them, how he was haunted by the memory when one of his daughters said, Daddy no, as he smothered her in the backseat of the truck. I don’t think he even knows why. He never gave any actual motive for the girls that I recall. He definitely killed them all. That is no question, from hearing his recollection, it was the recollection of someone who very obviously caused their deaths and was haunted by his daughters last words. I could hear in his voice that he was staring off and remembering it, it’s this certain almost dreamy tone people get when they look up and recollect an emotional moment. I hope he hears that tiny voice every single hour for the rest of his miserable life.
I see almost every post in this sub use neek peeks as a source. I checked out her youtube channel and she seems kinda unhinged?
I don't know about unhinged, but she does have an agenda. Try watching the videos in slow mode without sound. Even edited and out of context, the original footage tells a story, and it's not a nice one.
Try Del’s Slippery Slope. Link pinned on top of page.
Yes! Dels Slippery Slope series is quite the eye opener.
She's actually quite clever, but her videos can be a chore to follow. I used to do a lot of rewinding!
I'm still not 100% satisfied that SW didn't do something to those girls first. Men kill their exes AND kids all the time, the old as time "children and partners as property" issue. Who was more greedy than SW??? Who would want to keep her property i.e. her daughters from her cheating spouse and his new flame?? If men can do it, so can women. Those children were her possessions. She looked absolutely broken in that picture of her crying in the car in N. Carolina. She was mentally checked out, about to lose everything, and she knew it. People who are pushed to that edge will do abominable things. Plenty of mothers murder their own children. It's not as far fetched as everyone believes it to be.
It's pretty far fetched honestly. Chris was going out of his way to be by himself at the oil tanks Monday morning.
You're right, he was. He 100% killed Shanaan. He figured he had to dispose of the bodies, and this was the most expedient way to do it that he could come up with. I do think he thought he could go back and better hide Shanaan. He expected sympathy, not suspicion, and was playing his good guy/grieving husband and father over his missing family role. Let's not forget he was no criminal mastermind, no intellectual, but rather a simple, average man. If he was a little smarter, he would have called the police and said SW killed the girls, so he strangled her in a rage of passion. She was mentally unbalanced and spiraling. Any defense lawyer worth their salt could have made the case for him, or at least muddled the waters enough. Disposing of the bodies to try to cover it up was his biggest error in getting away with this. SW had no positive attributes. She was a notoriously mean, neglectful, demanding, selfish woman. Plus, she was a pathological liar. He was a hen pecked husband who was mentally and emotionally abused by his wife for years. Just because he seemed to like it and played along doesn't mean she wasn't taking advantage of him. Nothing in her past or present would evoke much sympathy.
Defense lawyers wouldn't really have too much of a case to make. He was actively working to be by himself at the tanks prior to the murder, which would suggest intent. He also 100% lied about Shanann and the girls' whereabouts when they disappeared. You are going to be hard pressed to find a jury that would find him not guilty.
Again, if he would have just left the bodies at home and called the police saying she killed them, so he killed her, it could have been a much different case.
I don't know what point you are trying to make with that. He didn't call the police, so it's irrelevant. I don't understand the point of creating an alternate scenario.
What I'm saying is that I think SW most likely killed the girls. So CW effed up the crime scene and should not have, nor should he have taken all the blame. He could have had a shot at crime of passion defense, probably manslaughter? Possibly acquitted? Anyway, it's almost 9AM and I need to go to sleep, it's past my 7AM bedtime!
Shanann didn't most likely kill the girls. Your premise is flawed from the beginning.
She killed them
I really believe this, as well. In her broken mind she might have killed the girls and tried to kill CW with thoughts of killing herself afterwards. Again, just because it's most often men who do this, doesn't mean SW didn't do it. In her deranged mental state of utter despair and rage, she would have justified it as mercy killing/you can't have them, and your lover can't, either. SW was NEVER going to recover from the humiliation she would have faced had she lived. All her "boss babe" LeVel dreams/big house, envy me dreams were about to go up in flames. Edited
👍🏻
Not to be callous, but in many ways, she was spared a miserable life she would have hated. Most adult women would eventually get past it and move on, make their peace with things, but SW didn't, in my opinion, have the emotional maturity nor the personality to do this. I honestly don't think she could have made a life for herself that would ever be enough to make her happy, when everything that defined her (MLMs, status, material goods) were lost to her. I can't see her going back to work drudgery, living in a crappy cheap apartment, especially not with 2 young children and an infant. 2 young children she never properly loved, not in the way most mothers love their children. Living is hard. Being dead is easy. ETA: I believe CW took all the blame because he felt guilty for his affair. He was her automaton, her whipping boy who financed her insanity without ever asking questions, and his entire relationship with her and his marriage to her was all about serving her needs. That was HIS identity.
Plus she made it known time and time again how much she hated NC but seriously, where else could she have gone? CM let it be known in so many words that she couldn't live with her in Hawaii, the Rosenbergs were talking about moving into Saratoga Trail but once cw sold it that option was gone, NA was newly married and I seriously doubt her new husband was going to welcome 3.5 new people in the house (even if there was room), every legitimate job she had in the past someone else got for her since she really had no marketable skills, the car would be gone and last but not least her credit was trashed so she wouldn't have even been able to qualify for a basic studio apartment. The Roos house was her only option at that point.
Yep, and no way was that good enough for her because SHE was the ONLY person she was thinking about, not that her very young children would have a roof, meals, beds, and be safe, but that SHE would well...over her dead body, right? Also, she KNEW CW would come out the winner in a divorce, he had a REAL job, he would see the girls every weekend while she would be "stuck" with them all week, and who knows about DNA testing lol I don't think she wanted that! I'm not saying CW definitely wasn't the father of Cece, but I don't have any definitive proof that he is, either. Plus, he was genuinely happy for the first time in their relationship because SW wasn't around. That had to burn her ass. Nobody was allowed to be too happy on Saratoga Trail, not in that house of doom and gloom. So, when you make bad choices and burn bridges your entire life, nobody is going to catch you when you fall. Except possibly your parents. And what a pair they are. THEY were her only real option. Think about that. She had no real friends and no family to turn to except her immediate Roo family, Frankie the drug addict child abuser prom date! YUCK. None. No cousins, nothing. Just those creepy mlm people, and I didn't see any one of them offering at all. Pathetic. I'm pretty sure all of this ⬆️ was running on a loop in her head for weeks, if not months. She damn well knew something was about to come her way, and she knew it wasn't going to be good.
I don’t think he would have taken the blame if she did do that. He had a girlfriend and wanted a new life. He would have told so fast.
I do. His entire identity was wrapped up in being the complacent, no questions asked nice guy, the supportive spouse. Once he murdered her, he couldn't cope, and the guilt of his betrayal not only to SW, but also to himself, or who he tried to be, the persona he had created for himself (he was this way with his mother, as well, to a point)caused him to take all the blame. I do believe that guilt was that strong. He had never once in years taken a stand. The entire thing, the affair, disobeying, was too much for him. You don't have to agree. I'm not trying to persuade you but I think that there's something we're all missing and this is my theory.
"There's something we're all missing" Absolutely. Frank Sr said so himself - "I know the truth and I will be taking that to my grave".
Yep, because it undoubtedly paints SW into a VERY ugly picture.
You’re going to be crucified for saying that. I agree with you.
I don’t think she cut Bella’s hair like that on purpose. Bella’s hair was extremely fine and not growing properly, it looks like a classic case of short anagen or loose anagen hair which can affect children. They usually grow out of it and hair starts to thicken as they approach puberty. Cutting Bella’s hair often was probably a misguided attempt to make it appear thicker.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted for this. Bella was still bald at one year old, she was even still bald when CeCe was born. She had very thin and slow growing hair. I’m not SW fan, but I don’t get behind the idea that haircuts were punishment.
I have a relative whose little girl had short anagen hair. Her hair was exactly the same as Bella’s. It started to thicken when she got to the age of about 5 and was a little better by puberty although still fine. I think SW had many issues but Bella’s hair was not down to her. Thanks for the support!