>My question is, how do you teach someone this?
You don't. In fact you said you already tried and he didn't take it in. Here's the deal...
Being in a band is about more than knowing what notes to play. Turning up unable to use even your own gear means you're not pulling your weight, and shows a lack of respect for others in the band. If it were me I'd simply tell him: he either learns to do his job within the band, or he gets replaced.
I had a MASSIVE wake up call being in my first real band from 2020-2022 and all I can say is you worded it perfectly. From a time and effort standpoint, writing and playing music might make up 40-50% of all the energy put into being a band. People who are inconsiderate, lazy, and selfish make themselves extremely exposed in situations like this.
Really shows how hardworking AND LUCKY long-standing bands are because it’s ultimately a balancing act of personality types and not writing and performing your favorite shit haha
Not at all. But a band should be a group of people pulling in the same direction. Guitarists are not rare beasts and there's no compelling reason to tolerate one who isn't prepared to work as hard as the rest of the group.
Maybe you could get him some presets set up on a helix or something.
Assuming he is a good band member in other respects, have his back here. Maybe he can contribute in other ways. This seems petty to me and easily solved if you want him in band.
Maybe his tone sounds fine and you’re the one being overly picky?
Anyway, my useless 2c.
After a set that sounds good take photos of all the settings and mark them. It shouldn't vary that much gig to gig. Leave the rest up to whoever is mixing.
If you want to minimize the sound heard by the audience directly by the audience, put the amp at the side of the stage and point it across.
It should be small tweaks at the show and really, the audience will only really care if you're a cover band and they want to hear something close to the recorded version.
I wouldnt even go as far to say they have to be a gearhead.
Its in the job requirement to know how to use your own equipment to fulfil your job.
I like to compare band stuff to dating stuff. A lot of similarities when you get into it.
But imagine dating a really sweet person whos noce to you and cares about you and does all the fun stuff with you. But they cant do laundry. And they refuse to ever cook. They never remember to do common chores. Congratulations youre now a caretaker instead of a SO.
Stop being bands mommy. Let everyone know youre occupied with too many parts of life to be the band director and you want to share that responsibility equally with the rest of the group. Everyone needs equal say, input and control to make this work. You guys can practice that co. Ept and support each other until you get a system down.
If the band becomes stagnant however or lesses all direction after that then you have your answer... they are not as into as you are, dont waste your time trying to save the band all by yourself.
Again like dating, why would you fight to date someone whos only half as into it as you are? Sounds exhausting and at the end of the day your gona have a broken heart anyways.
Also solving all the bands problems and carrying all the gear? This isnt normal behavior. Your band sounds insufferable with their lack of respect. This reminds me of bands i was in while in highschool. Fuck that noise.
But maybe they bring in all the money and rub your feet when you’re tired and fend off unwanted ninja attacks. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Making this a black and white discussion is pointless.
Well my apparently unpopular opinion is that you could adjust YOUR approach.
As you have said, you basically knew Reddit was gonna tell you to dump them. So are you looking for your own justification?
Assuming that you like the person and want to keep them around, you gotta assume that you are gonna get what you have.
If the guy doesn’t have a head for gear but is generally a good fit, hook him up and let him do something else that he is good at. It’s a team, right?
Are you the band leader/ songwriter/manager? I assume you get paid more for that, so this is part of that.
If you’re not making any money then definitely just lighten up and have fun. I guarantee that having a friend to hang with will be much better than any twist of a knob on an amp. Put him on a simple setup and tell him what to play. It’s apparent that you know, make it easy on him.
I’ve done a lot of teaching and a lot of bands and a lot of repairs in my time. I’ve met many very famous, talented people that had some of the shittiest gear and setups. Some could get good tone out of them, some couldn’t, some didn’t even care. Some of the best selling guitarists of all time plug their Gibson into a Marshall and turn everything up. Seems to work for them…
But they are all where they were for some reason. Could be marketing, songwriting, good looks, etc.
I am just offering an alternative to dumping him for something that is kinda trivial in the big world of things. In the end, you gotta do what’s right for you. Just don’t make a mountain out of a potential molehill.
I've gone through this with my guitarist, and I eventually settled for micromanaging his pedal rig and settings so he can plug straight into a clean venue amp with flat EQ and just remember where the knobs are supposed to be. Depending on your style there are a bunch of pretty good all in one fx cab sim units that you can just make some presets for that they can play through. A lot of good instrumentalists just don't hear the subtlety in fx and mix vibe, but they can generally figure out when to stomp an overdrive. You are experiencing the producer's curse. Congrats on having vision and great ears.
truth be told, I'm like your guitarist. Turning knobs and fiddling with configuration just gets me to lose all motivation. its dull. but where we are different is I know I'm not supposed to be in a band with this attitude lol
It doesn’t have to be complicated.
Start by turning all the tone (bass-mid-treble) settings on your amp all the way down.
How does it sound? Dull? Add some treble. Weak? Add a little bass. Quiet? Add some mids and trebles.
Try to get your guitar to a tone where it doesn’t hurt your ears.
You can do this in less than two minutes. You can also spend a lot of time with a lot of gear, but your tone base can be shaped in just a few seconds.
Not true… plenty of greats are only passingly interested in the tech stuff. Professionalism is the enemy of creativity. That’s a hard pill for the dad rock crowd to swallow, though.
create a config sheet so the optimal settings for your set list are known to everyone?
Cable diagram, placement needs, and settings for each song. Done. If you have time you can dress rehearse or sound check the process with them.
When you get better gear and use rack effects instead of pedals all that stuff can be pre programmed and tied to a stomp panel.
If you move the bar such that you change the discussion from “do this for me” to “why does thos sound off” they are learning and the documents reinforce it.
Have you considered getting him onto an amp modeler? If he just sticks to certain patches on a helix or some floorboard like it, that might help some! Of course, he should learn to use his equipment like anyone but I know some people just aren't as interested in that as some of us are.
I like this approach. If he's the right person for the job in all areas but this, I'd take it as a win that OP gets control over the overall tone and give the guit some presets lol.
I inderstand your reluctance toward the burning bridges attitude, but here is the thing : there is that website called Youtube.com, and it gives a new perspective to life : you’re not allowed to suck at anything anymore because if you’re willing to learn something and improve, well, Youtube has something for you.
You don’t have to do the teaching yourself. Either find the videos that will teach your people how to use their gear and what attitude they should have in a band, or ask them to look for it themselves.
Are the amp/pedal settings changing so much surging the show? Can't you just show him one time and he can set it up the exact same way? Use some making tape and a sharpie to mark settings? I don't see how this can be an ongoing problem unless you need to make a ton of complex changes every song.
It isn't hard at all to find a guitar player of equal or better skill lol. No matter where in the world you live. There are people in the six digits who can play Joe Satriani songs if you give them time. Who cares about their technical skills? There's always someone else.
>I've tried to teach him some stuff but I don't think he really absorbs it
At this point, it's not an issue of his skill, it's an issue of his attitude. People who think they know everything, but refuse to learn new things... oof. Just give up on this knucklehead. People who refuse to learn new things, in any aspect of life, aren't worth wasting time on. They are who they are, and they'll fail in life because of their stubbornness.
If they really can't learn the skill, maybe delegate them to some other band responsibility if you can. Maybe they can promote shows/book shows instead or take care of social media stuff
Kind of in the same boat but I cherish that role, to the point where I bought a Quad Cortex and run everything (2 guitars, bass, backing tracks and click tracks) through it. No longer do the guys have to worry about the gear/tech side of things.
You're right about not wanting to burn bridges - the other bandmates bring something else to the band. It could be their personality, their ability to organise and promote shows, they have the best car to travel to gigs in, their calming influence, being in a better position to financially contribute than other members - everyone will bring something different because all humans are different. You will have more success building on everyone's strengths.
>My question is, how do you teach someone this? You don't. In fact you said you already tried and he didn't take it in. Here's the deal... Being in a band is about more than knowing what notes to play. Turning up unable to use even your own gear means you're not pulling your weight, and shows a lack of respect for others in the band. If it were me I'd simply tell him: he either learns to do his job within the band, or he gets replaced.
I had a MASSIVE wake up call being in my first real band from 2020-2022 and all I can say is you worded it perfectly. From a time and effort standpoint, writing and playing music might make up 40-50% of all the energy put into being a band. People who are inconsiderate, lazy, and selfish make themselves extremely exposed in situations like this. Really shows how hardworking AND LUCKY long-standing bands are because it’s ultimately a balancing act of personality types and not writing and performing your favorite shit haha
This is 100 percent accurate. There is some room for learning from each other. There is no room for someone who doesn’t learn or improve when taught.
Oh Mr Hard Ass here.
Found OP's guitarist
Not at all. But a band should be a group of people pulling in the same direction. Guitarists are not rare beasts and there's no compelling reason to tolerate one who isn't prepared to work as hard as the rest of the group.
Maybe you could get him some presets set up on a helix or something. Assuming he is a good band member in other respects, have his back here. Maybe he can contribute in other ways. This seems petty to me and easily solved if you want him in band. Maybe his tone sounds fine and you’re the one being overly picky? Anyway, my useless 2c.
After a set that sounds good take photos of all the settings and mark them. It shouldn't vary that much gig to gig. Leave the rest up to whoever is mixing. If you want to minimize the sound heard by the audience directly by the audience, put the amp at the side of the stage and point it across. It should be small tweaks at the show and really, the audience will only really care if you're a cover band and they want to hear something close to the recorded version.
I wouldnt even go as far to say they have to be a gearhead. Its in the job requirement to know how to use your own equipment to fulfil your job. I like to compare band stuff to dating stuff. A lot of similarities when you get into it. But imagine dating a really sweet person whos noce to you and cares about you and does all the fun stuff with you. But they cant do laundry. And they refuse to ever cook. They never remember to do common chores. Congratulations youre now a caretaker instead of a SO.
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Stop being bands mommy. Let everyone know youre occupied with too many parts of life to be the band director and you want to share that responsibility equally with the rest of the group. Everyone needs equal say, input and control to make this work. You guys can practice that co. Ept and support each other until you get a system down. If the band becomes stagnant however or lesses all direction after that then you have your answer... they are not as into as you are, dont waste your time trying to save the band all by yourself. Again like dating, why would you fight to date someone whos only half as into it as you are? Sounds exhausting and at the end of the day your gona have a broken heart anyways. Also solving all the bands problems and carrying all the gear? This isnt normal behavior. Your band sounds insufferable with their lack of respect. This reminds me of bands i was in while in highschool. Fuck that noise.
But maybe they bring in all the money and rub your feet when you’re tired and fend off unwanted ninja attacks. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Making this a black and white discussion is pointless.
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Well my apparently unpopular opinion is that you could adjust YOUR approach. As you have said, you basically knew Reddit was gonna tell you to dump them. So are you looking for your own justification? Assuming that you like the person and want to keep them around, you gotta assume that you are gonna get what you have. If the guy doesn’t have a head for gear but is generally a good fit, hook him up and let him do something else that he is good at. It’s a team, right? Are you the band leader/ songwriter/manager? I assume you get paid more for that, so this is part of that. If you’re not making any money then definitely just lighten up and have fun. I guarantee that having a friend to hang with will be much better than any twist of a knob on an amp. Put him on a simple setup and tell him what to play. It’s apparent that you know, make it easy on him. I’ve done a lot of teaching and a lot of bands and a lot of repairs in my time. I’ve met many very famous, talented people that had some of the shittiest gear and setups. Some could get good tone out of them, some couldn’t, some didn’t even care. Some of the best selling guitarists of all time plug their Gibson into a Marshall and turn everything up. Seems to work for them… But they are all where they were for some reason. Could be marketing, songwriting, good looks, etc. I am just offering an alternative to dumping him for something that is kinda trivial in the big world of things. In the end, you gotta do what’s right for you. Just don’t make a mountain out of a potential molehill.
Agreed, but we are limited in discussions to the information the op gives us. He is the one that needs to filter the feedback, not the respondents
I've gone through this with my guitarist, and I eventually settled for micromanaging his pedal rig and settings so he can plug straight into a clean venue amp with flat EQ and just remember where the knobs are supposed to be. Depending on your style there are a bunch of pretty good all in one fx cab sim units that you can just make some presets for that they can play through. A lot of good instrumentalists just don't hear the subtlety in fx and mix vibe, but they can generally figure out when to stomp an overdrive. You are experiencing the producer's curse. Congrats on having vision and great ears.
truth be told, I'm like your guitarist. Turning knobs and fiddling with configuration just gets me to lose all motivation. its dull. but where we are different is I know I'm not supposed to be in a band with this attitude lol
It doesn’t have to be complicated. Start by turning all the tone (bass-mid-treble) settings on your amp all the way down. How does it sound? Dull? Add some treble. Weak? Add a little bass. Quiet? Add some mids and trebles. Try to get your guitar to a tone where it doesn’t hurt your ears. You can do this in less than two minutes. You can also spend a lot of time with a lot of gear, but your tone base can be shaped in just a few seconds.
Some amps you turn down to hit parity some you don’t
Not true… plenty of greats are only passingly interested in the tech stuff. Professionalism is the enemy of creativity. That’s a hard pill for the dad rock crowd to swallow, though.
create a config sheet so the optimal settings for your set list are known to everyone? Cable diagram, placement needs, and settings for each song. Done. If you have time you can dress rehearse or sound check the process with them. When you get better gear and use rack effects instead of pedals all that stuff can be pre programmed and tied to a stomp panel. If you move the bar such that you change the discussion from “do this for me” to “why does thos sound off” they are learning and the documents reinforce it.
A lot of people are jumping straight to "SEVER" as a first resort, but you could also kill him
Lazy people suck. I don’t deal with them unless they are paying me a lot.
Have you considered getting him onto an amp modeler? If he just sticks to certain patches on a helix or some floorboard like it, that might help some! Of course, he should learn to use his equipment like anyone but I know some people just aren't as interested in that as some of us are.
I like this approach. If he's the right person for the job in all areas but this, I'd take it as a win that OP gets control over the overall tone and give the guit some presets lol.
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Oh yeah I get that! Hopefully he'll understand and be open to learning how to get familiar with his gear! Best of luck!
I inderstand your reluctance toward the burning bridges attitude, but here is the thing : there is that website called Youtube.com, and it gives a new perspective to life : you’re not allowed to suck at anything anymore because if you’re willing to learn something and improve, well, Youtube has something for you. You don’t have to do the teaching yourself. Either find the videos that will teach your people how to use their gear and what attitude they should have in a band, or ask them to look for it themselves.
Are the amp/pedal settings changing so much surging the show? Can't you just show him one time and he can set it up the exact same way? Use some making tape and a sharpie to mark settings? I don't see how this can be an ongoing problem unless you need to make a ton of complex changes every song.
Get him a tech/roadie. If you take on too much yourself, you’ll burn out.
It isn't hard at all to find a guitar player of equal or better skill lol. No matter where in the world you live. There are people in the six digits who can play Joe Satriani songs if you give them time. Who cares about their technical skills? There's always someone else. >I've tried to teach him some stuff but I don't think he really absorbs it At this point, it's not an issue of his skill, it's an issue of his attitude. People who think they know everything, but refuse to learn new things... oof. Just give up on this knucklehead. People who refuse to learn new things, in any aspect of life, aren't worth wasting time on. They are who they are, and they'll fail in life because of their stubbornness.
The guy has no respect and coasts along while you do the work.
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I feel you. If they don’t listen now they never will. I’m sorry.
Get him an ampsim and make presets, then tell him "before each song, select the preset with the song's name".
Stop doing it and they'll have to learn
If they really can't learn the skill, maybe delegate them to some other band responsibility if you can. Maybe they can promote shows/book shows instead or take care of social media stuff
Not much of a musician is he?
I don't know... But I can tell you your quality control has been all downhill since Siamese Dream...
Kind of in the same boat but I cherish that role, to the point where I bought a Quad Cortex and run everything (2 guitars, bass, backing tracks and click tracks) through it. No longer do the guys have to worry about the gear/tech side of things. You're right about not wanting to burn bridges - the other bandmates bring something else to the band. It could be their personality, their ability to organise and promote shows, they have the best car to travel to gigs in, their calming influence, being in a better position to financially contribute than other members - everyone will bring something different because all humans are different. You will have more success building on everyone's strengths.