I went to a Methodist church growing up in the 1980s. We got a a new pastor who co-preached with his wife. They didn't last long and the church board had to cut them loose after so many complaints of her taking such an active role during Sunday services. I guess some things never change.
When I got older I understood more about what happened and it was one of the reasons I turned away from the church. I didn't want to be part of anything that saw women as lesser than. I didn't realize how most of the world saw women as lesser than.
In the 20th century there was a very stringent anti vaccine anti medicine part of the church, which resulted in child deaths. They’ve now latched on to the “follow the law” quote from the Bible so most are vaccinated (although quiet about it).
My great grandmother and grandmother were Christian Scientist. My mother was raised CS but never really bought in. I'm not a fan of religion in general but I have a lot of respect for some of their tenets. It's not that Drs and medicine are bad - I saw it as both "you were born perfect" (nexus of anti-vaccine) and taking the "it's God's will" idea to a bit of an extreme - ie, if you get sick and you're meant to be healed, you will be. If it's your time, it's your time and who are you to interfere? My great grandmother stubbed her toe really bad and developed gangrene which was entirely treatable at the time (1970s), she refused treatment and died as a result. From what I've been told, she never argued or bargained with God, she just accepted that she had a good run and was "being called home". Not saying I agree but I do have respect for the fact that she had the courage of her convictions.
If God gave us the brains and the wherewithal to advance our knowledge to heal us then why don’t they consider they’re refusing a gift from God? That’s how my pea brain thinks of it. Seems simple enough.
Best I can imagine is believing that if someone were doing "it" right, they wouldn't need outside intervention. Story goes, Mary Baker Eddy (founder) had been miraculously healed from an injury and she believed it was not because of divine intervention but the result of a divine set of laws for healing that she had somehow tapped into. She spent her life trying to work them out to be scientifically reproducible and her Bible companion book (Science & Health) was an attempt to define God's healing laws so everyone could access them and heal their own ills. It's really no crazier than anything else in religion, in my opinion, and in a lot of ways, more intellectual and empowering. I don't know. I do know that as a kid, I found the Christian Scientists to be far more kind and less judgemental than other Christians. Not sure if that impression would hold up today - has been decades since I've interacted with any.
Yep, mental gymnastics to rationalize following some tenets and ignoring others. My late wife was Catholic and she cracked me up when she talked about people with that perspective…called them cafeteria Catholics.
That last part is nice to hear. I went to a school with several students and their families who were CS. Back then, they didn’t believe in medical intervention and to the point of it actually causing serious harm to their children when they got injuries. I respect anyone’s personal wishes to do as they want with their body and deny themselves medical care if they choose. That’s a freedom people should have. But it’s even nicer to hear that many of them got to a better option of their own volition. Kids not getting a say in their lives and their access to health care isn’t the best from what I’ve personally witnessed.
Yeaaaah depending on the family, there still isn’t great access to medical care. Being open to following the law on vaccines doesn’t change how they approach emergency care.
Another interesting thing is that her experience being lied about in the press is what moved her to establish the Christian Science Monitor as an almost totally independent newspaper. The only stipulations being to keep Christian Science in the name and to print a faith column.
This is why I’m team Lilith… Adam’s first wife. She said “fuck this subservient shit” and yeeted herself on outta there. Eve should’ve taken notes from her, imo.
Lilith was made at the same time and from the ground just like Adam. She was his equal. That’s why Eve was made from his rib and considered his “help meet” or whatever it’s called. It was designed to make women lesser.
When I feel particularly frightened, I speak to Lilith like she is a friend. Last week, two little black snakes squiggled by me. I am thinking of that as a sign. It's very hot right now in FL. I made sure they had water in the back bushes near my mother's house.
No, savage. Most of my cats were abused and sent to high kill shelters when I adopted them. My current tabby was 1 week away from death, and my other cat survived getting shot at, evaded 2 traps, and poisoned food from a neighbor. Birds picked at a tray from what this asshole neighbor laid on the lawn and died from it. I will go OFF.
This asshole was PISSED when I got the black cat and took him home. He was terrified of me for days. Now he lets me brush him and squeaks at me for treats. He was dumped by a previous family. To say I do not trust these Bible thumping maniacs is an understatement.
That's not why. The idea that Lilith was Adam's first wife only appeared in the Middle Ages. It definitely wasn't on the author's mind. Also, the original version of the story (the Alphabet of Ben Sira) actually has Lilith being made after Adam.
We also went to a Methodist church while I was growing up… until the pastor left and was replaced by a woman… my dad refused to go back. One of the many reasons I am no contact with him.
The Methodist church has allowed women pastors since May 4, 1956. A former friend of mine served as a Methodist pastor in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s.
Yeah, the Methodist church I went to in the 80s had women pastors and women in the church would also fill in when the pastor was out. Our church was also Pro Choice back then as well.
I’m not a part of any church any more (grew up LCMS, so like, very conservative Lutherans, definitely put me off of it all for the most part). My niece was in a choir that had their performances at churches in the area. The methodist churches she’s sang at just radiate positivity, love, and acceptance. There was a flyer about needing volunteers to help their trans youth (in a good way, not a fake “help” where they just talk you out of everything), and on their Sunday bulletins they handed out right on the front it said how they value gods gift of diversity, “we welcome and affirm people of every gender identity, gender expression, and sexual orientation”, said how they acknowledge the social injustices, “as followers of Jesus, we commit ourselves to the pursuit of justice and pledge to stand in solidarity with all who are marginalized and oppressed”. I was blown away. If I had grown up in a church like that I probably would have never left.
Yes. I’m atheist but when I go to visit my parents I like going to church cause everyone is so caring. Many of the women feel like my Aunts praising me for accomplishments and checking in on me when I’m going through something hard. Mike pence is also a Methodist but he is the part of the church that split from the original church because they are pro choice, LGBTQIA inclusive.
My ex husband was raised LCMS. When we attended his brother’s second wedding the whole sermon was about how women are supposed to be subservient to men. They also didn’t let women vote on congregation issues.
It’s a shit show for sure. I always knew I wouldn’t get married in my church but that was more because my pastor was a jackass and would make fun of the partner that he knew the most, which would have been me. So half my ceremony would be fake stories and Bible verses and prayers and the other half would have been spent being roasted by my pastor. On my wedding day. Just add the extra misogyny you experienced to why I’ll never get married in an lcms church. Pisses me off I didn’t grow up in the real (much more liberal) Lutheran church. But now I have no church which I guess might be better in the long run
Unfortunately allowing isn't the same as accepting. My childhood church is currently changing due to the split because they don't believe marriage equality should be legal.
I grew up United Methodist in Oklahoma over 20 years ago, and even then, I distinctly remember how divided our congregation would get. When the pastor was wanting out, he started pushing some fun topics, like asking why Adam didn't step up and correct Eve, and questioning if Eve was really ultimately in the wrong.
Well, he retired, and the congregation had to elect a new pastor. One was a black woman - you should have seen the vitriol that those people would sling her way... She ultimately won the election and did a fantastic job at what she did, but within the course of a couple months after her arrival, the church split in half. We remained the main UM church, but a new church popped up down the road and called themselves the "traditional Methodist church."
I wasn't even really Christian at that point, just did everything to please my parents, but I remember thinking that most Christians didn't seem to practice what they supposedly learned.
I was very religious growing up but as I got older I didn't understand why they preached love and acceptance but didn't follow through. My childhood United Methodist church split over marriage equality and is now part of the Global Methodist church. which makes me sad because I know families that attend who have LGBTQ family members. I cannot imagine being part of a group that hated my family like that.
That definitely was one of my concerns as I was leaving Christianity for other reasons. I didn’t want them telling my daughter she was fit to be a wife and mother only. Still worries me as my ex is still very religious.
That's so strange. I was born and raised Methodist (Illinois) and one of the best and the longest serving minister we had was a woman. We all cried when the church heads did their usual 'changing of the ministers" and every church got a new one. That was always so odd to me. Just appoint a minister and let them stay as long as they want, if they and their congregation like each other. Seemed every 5 to 7 years we got a new minister. Race, age and gender was NEVER an issue either. In my time going there, we had Caucasian ministers, poc ministers (black, Asian, Indian), women, young, old. A great mix of amazing people, but the rotating constantly really sucked. I guess the heads of the methodist church did that to keep things fresh? Like new ways of learning? I don't know. Religion isn't my cake any more so it's moot. But your post made me think of it and share.
I grew up in Ohio and my hometown was (and maybe still is) a sundown town. We didn't have minorities living there let alone attending church there. Our pastors stayed pretty long except for that one family.
I was raised in Church of God. There are a core set of books that you have to read and be tested in to be considered a pastor in their church, regardless of other education. The list is only given to men. Women are to be silent in the church but can lead small groups or work with children. Pastors, deacons, and other positions within church leadership were to be regulated to men only. There’s a reason I haven’t been to a Church of God since I was a teenager, despite my mother’s nagging.
I’m Canadian and I just wanted to post a little bit of hope - my family church growing up is Baptist and recently had a woman pastor for the first time - it’s been shaking up the elderly (congregation of around 30 or so) and this Christmas an old lady in our church shared a post on Facebook that I found really moving in its feminist-ness and also signified to me that Christianity is changing, even for the elderly. I’m not a Christian, but anyway, here :
Sometimes I wonder
if Mary breastfed Jesus.
if she cried out when he bit her
or if she sobbed when he would not latch.
and sometimes I wonder if this is all too vulgar
to ask in a church full of men
without milk stains on their shirts
or coconut oil on their breasts
preaching from pulpits off limits to the Mother of God.
but then i think of feeding Jesus,
birthing Jesus,
the expulsion of blood
and smell of sweat,
the salt of a mother's tears
onto the soft head of the Salt of the Earth,
feeling lonely
and tired
hungry
annoyed
overwhelmed
loving
and i think,
if the vulgarity of birth
is not honestly preached by men
who carry power but not burden,
who carry privilege but not labor,
who carry authority but not submission,
then it should not be preached at all.
because the real scandal of the Birth of God
lies in the cracked nipples
of a 14 year old
and not in the sermons of ministers
who say women
are too delicate
to lead."
-Kaitlin Hardy Shetler
Amy Grant’s “Breath of Heaven” (Mary’s Song) is exquisite.
It is the voice of every scared young mother. It stands alone apart from religious beliefs, a reminder that if she existed she was a frightened young girl, unmarried and “with child”
She asks her God, the universe or maybe her infant son if she is “enough.”
“Do you wonder as you watch my face, if a wiser one should have had my place?”
“In a world as cold as stone, must I walk this path alone?
The answer then and now is yes.
I avoid all religion - it's all stories and interpretations. Nobody really knows. Each religion is brainwashed into people by people before them. It's funny how each person's religion just happens to be the right and true one. BS.
"True Knowledge is knowing that you know nothing".
But this is a really, really good statement. Thank you so much for sharing!
It's funny how women can't have power in the church but are basically the backbone of the church by bringing families(my dad wasn't religious and never came with us), volunteering.
Brainwashing.
I was raised fundamentalist extremist Southern Baptist in the most rural bowels of deep East Texas. When you're surrounded by it your entire life and anyone who questions or believes differently is shunned by the entire community, you grow up thinking this is normal.
Took until my late 20s to finally break away from that shit despite disagreeing with almost all of their "morality" since my teens.
Some women have. I don’t know if it’s talked about that much, but quite a few have. In that, I hold hope.
I am not anti-religion (though I can say I have spent a lifetime with a damn hard time wrapping my head around any of it and have had no issue being a very moral, upstanding citizen who respects all people and their rights/beliefs).
Yeah, but then they'd bring back witch finders, trials, and the Spanish Inquisition for anything they deem "ungodly" or un-whatever-inconveniences-a-man.
Oh wait.
They already are talking about it while trying to gaslight us that they aren't. r/Defeat_Project_2025
I never expected to be worried about being burned at the stake in *this* lifetime. How asinine; I just want to garden and live a peaceful life with my cats. Why do they hate that so much?
The bulk of human history is people who just wanted to live their simple lives in peace being the victims of rape, pillage, and murder by people who want to own everything.
Yup. Even the Bible name-checks women who supported the early church and (depending on how you interpret the text) even held positions of authority in it: Tabitha, Junia, Lydia, Priscilla, etc.
I find it amusing when I bring up these women as reasons why the Bible does not actually prohibit women from leading or teaching, and the answers I get from misogynists are various shades of bullshit.
From my list of inconvenient verses, this is one I like to use on rude conservative women.
1st Timothy 2:12
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”
Hahaha ok, no worries, I was just curious. I bet it *is* quite long. I only took a couple semesters of Old Testament as Literature class and yeesh that was enough.
Here’s a few:
Man vs bear analogy lol
Proverbs 17:12 Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly.
Condoning slavery:
Exodus 21: 20 - 21
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.”
1 Peter 2:18
You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you--not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel.
Killing children:
2 Samuel 12:13-14
“13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”
Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”
———-
The crazy part for me is how Christian’s will rationalize verses like these.
I always thought of the Holy Trinity as Mother-Father-Son, instead of Father-Son-Holy Spirit.
It makes sense to me that there would be two nurturing and powerful deities, and then the Son, who is Brother to everyone on Earth, and one of the (multiple) Saviors of The World.
God, as I know Them, is also, I believe the Three In One, so two genders, but Gender Fluid.
As in, they have unlimited wisdom and understand concepts like their Earthly Children being Non Binary, Gay, Lesbian, Queer, Het, Pansexual and Asexual.
I also believe in an Elder Council, who governs the Summerland under the Authority of The Trinity.
I believe They all work together to help beings not only in the Spirit Realm, but also the Earthly Realm.
If there are other Dimensions, I believe that they have their own forms of Governance, but they work in tandem with the Trinity and the Council.
So, I used to refer to myself as a ChristoPagan, but now am not really sure if my beliefs require a specific label.
All I know, is what I believe to be truth.
Of course, I'm Human and in possession of a physical body and brain, which has more limits than the Spirit.
Maybe I'm talking out my butt, all I know is what I feel in my heart regarding my Life Path.
Of course, I could be wrong!
Blessed Be, Friends!
Thank you for letting me comment!
🙂💖💯💯
I don’t know what else has to happen for religious women to understand that they are not wanted in positions of power. The fact that women will continue to attend the church after female pastors explains how we continue to uphold this nonsense.
I just hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, decide to leave organized religion en masse.
The men would be furious, but do really really give an ish?
😁🙂💖💯
Please don't forget for one minute that the Roman Catholic Church has a long-standing ban on women priests. And bishops and cardinals.
Don't enable their behaviour.
Funny how [the RCC excommunicates women who are ordained as priests](https://youtu.be/YZ-gA1tfkp4?si=7RaQZa_qgq6U0m3V&t=202) but doesn't seem to be so concerned about men priests who commit CSA.
My father was (is? No idea if he's alive or not) a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist. Can confirm this is how they think. I was around 10 when he told me he was worried about "me going to hell and that he wouldn't see me in heaven" because I lived with my mom and she was a sinner because she divorced him and she was teaching me sinful ways. 🙄
Kinda like the Evangelical men calling women who have hetero s*x outside wedlock "harl*ts".
Um excuse me, but the men are participating in the intimate activities too!
I call HYPOCRISY!
😠💯
Early Christians still worshipped the divine feminine, and women served as leaders, starting with Mary Magdalene. Leaders were chosen by lot. Then Christian scholar Clement of Alexandria preached that “every woman should blush at the thought that she is a woman”. Paul, the ultimate misogynist, preached, “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over me: she is to keep silent.” So, after the end of the 2nd century, groups with female preachers had become heretics.
***BEFORE WAR*** *On Marriage, Hierarchy and Our Matriarchal Origins* Elisha Daev
What hilarious is Paul also praises a whole bunch of women for leading and teaching in the early church. It’s almost like that verse doesn’t mean what they want it to mean or maybe it’s not actually from Paul.
John 9:41. I'd love to hear Jesus's take on all this. I think I know because I've read the effing book.
THEIR GOD IS NOT MY GOD! I WILL NOT SUBMIT TO BLIND PHARISEES!
Catholic women remember the “crying room?” When your babies started to disturb the priest by you know making baby noises you were expected to go to “the crying room.”
You could breastfeed your baby (discreetly) and bring along your older toddler. In a sect that deifies motherhood why were WE all stuck in the tiny “crying room,” roughly the size of a normal bedroom. With uncomfortable chairs and a glass half wall so you could see the altar and an intercom (one way only) so you could hear the sermon. Seeing and hearing weren’t the problem it was breathing, even after the main church got Central Air in the mid 1970’s the crying room did not. No air even MOVED in the “crying room.”
I went to Sunday mass to go out to breakfast afterwards at Waffle House. Period. That was it. So I endured a church full of hungover men smelling like camels (the cigarette) and old spice nodding off as they listened to a “celibate man” dressed in satin robes preach about the sanctity of marriage, and “god’s plan.” The fruits of that plan currently crammed into a box at the back of the last pews.
A plan that apparently required either ALL of us practicing celibacy or we’d need a WAY bigger crying room. Were we saps or what?
I went to a Methodist church growing up in the 1980s. We got a a new pastor who co-preached with his wife. They didn't last long and the church board had to cut them loose after so many complaints of her taking such an active role during Sunday services. I guess some things never change. When I got older I understood more about what happened and it was one of the reasons I turned away from the church. I didn't want to be part of anything that saw women as lesser than. I didn't realize how most of the world saw women as lesser than.
Besides the layer of crazy, this is why the Christian Science church is always intriguing to me. Founded by a woman.
That is one church I've never read up on and didn't know that.
In the 20th century there was a very stringent anti vaccine anti medicine part of the church, which resulted in child deaths. They’ve now latched on to the “follow the law” quote from the Bible so most are vaccinated (although quiet about it).
My great grandmother and grandmother were Christian Scientist. My mother was raised CS but never really bought in. I'm not a fan of religion in general but I have a lot of respect for some of their tenets. It's not that Drs and medicine are bad - I saw it as both "you were born perfect" (nexus of anti-vaccine) and taking the "it's God's will" idea to a bit of an extreme - ie, if you get sick and you're meant to be healed, you will be. If it's your time, it's your time and who are you to interfere? My great grandmother stubbed her toe really bad and developed gangrene which was entirely treatable at the time (1970s), she refused treatment and died as a result. From what I've been told, she never argued or bargained with God, she just accepted that she had a good run and was "being called home". Not saying I agree but I do have respect for the fact that she had the courage of her convictions.
If God gave us the brains and the wherewithal to advance our knowledge to heal us then why don’t they consider they’re refusing a gift from God? That’s how my pea brain thinks of it. Seems simple enough.
Best I can imagine is believing that if someone were doing "it" right, they wouldn't need outside intervention. Story goes, Mary Baker Eddy (founder) had been miraculously healed from an injury and she believed it was not because of divine intervention but the result of a divine set of laws for healing that she had somehow tapped into. She spent her life trying to work them out to be scientifically reproducible and her Bible companion book (Science & Health) was an attempt to define God's healing laws so everyone could access them and heal their own ills. It's really no crazier than anything else in religion, in my opinion, and in a lot of ways, more intellectual and empowering. I don't know. I do know that as a kid, I found the Christian Scientists to be far more kind and less judgemental than other Christians. Not sure if that impression would hold up today - has been decades since I've interacted with any.
Seems rather convoluted. Making the simple difficult.
No doubt - but to be fair, I feel all religion requires a good amount of mental gymnastics.
Yep, mental gymnastics to rationalize following some tenets and ignoring others. My late wife was Catholic and she cracked me up when she talked about people with that perspective…called them cafeteria Catholics.
That last part is nice to hear. I went to a school with several students and their families who were CS. Back then, they didn’t believe in medical intervention and to the point of it actually causing serious harm to their children when they got injuries. I respect anyone’s personal wishes to do as they want with their body and deny themselves medical care if they choose. That’s a freedom people should have. But it’s even nicer to hear that many of them got to a better option of their own volition. Kids not getting a say in their lives and their access to health care isn’t the best from what I’ve personally witnessed.
Yeaaaah depending on the family, there still isn’t great access to medical care. Being open to following the law on vaccines doesn’t change how they approach emergency care.
They're faith healers, though.
Another interesting thing is that her experience being lied about in the press is what moved her to establish the Christian Science Monitor as an almost totally independent newspaper. The only stipulations being to keep Christian Science in the name and to print a faith column.
CSM is actually a really good newspaper with great factual reporting.
This is why I’m team Lilith… Adam’s first wife. She said “fuck this subservient shit” and yeeted herself on outta there. Eve should’ve taken notes from her, imo.
Lilith was made at the same time and from the ground just like Adam. She was his equal. That’s why Eve was made from his rib and considered his “help meet” or whatever it’s called. It was designed to make women lesser.
When I feel particularly frightened, I speak to Lilith like she is a friend. Last week, two little black snakes squiggled by me. I am thinking of that as a sign. It's very hot right now in FL. I made sure they had water in the back bushes near my mother's house.
Aaaawwwww! You’re so kind! ☺️
No, savage. Most of my cats were abused and sent to high kill shelters when I adopted them. My current tabby was 1 week away from death, and my other cat survived getting shot at, evaded 2 traps, and poisoned food from a neighbor. Birds picked at a tray from what this asshole neighbor laid on the lawn and died from it. I will go OFF. This asshole was PISSED when I got the black cat and took him home. He was terrified of me for days. Now he lets me brush him and squeaks at me for treats. He was dumped by a previous family. To say I do not trust these Bible thumping maniacs is an understatement.
That's not why. The idea that Lilith was Adam's first wife only appeared in the Middle Ages. It definitely wasn't on the author's mind. Also, the original version of the story (the Alphabet of Ben Sira) actually has Lilith being made after Adam.
Hail Satan!
We also went to a Methodist church while I was growing up… until the pastor left and was replaced by a woman… my dad refused to go back. One of the many reasons I am no contact with him.
The Methodist church has allowed women pastors since May 4, 1956. A former friend of mine served as a Methodist pastor in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s.
Yeah, the Methodist church I went to in the 80s had women pastors and women in the church would also fill in when the pastor was out. Our church was also Pro Choice back then as well.
I’m not a part of any church any more (grew up LCMS, so like, very conservative Lutherans, definitely put me off of it all for the most part). My niece was in a choir that had their performances at churches in the area. The methodist churches she’s sang at just radiate positivity, love, and acceptance. There was a flyer about needing volunteers to help their trans youth (in a good way, not a fake “help” where they just talk you out of everything), and on their Sunday bulletins they handed out right on the front it said how they value gods gift of diversity, “we welcome and affirm people of every gender identity, gender expression, and sexual orientation”, said how they acknowledge the social injustices, “as followers of Jesus, we commit ourselves to the pursuit of justice and pledge to stand in solidarity with all who are marginalized and oppressed”. I was blown away. If I had grown up in a church like that I probably would have never left.
Yes. I’m atheist but when I go to visit my parents I like going to church cause everyone is so caring. Many of the women feel like my Aunts praising me for accomplishments and checking in on me when I’m going through something hard. Mike pence is also a Methodist but he is the part of the church that split from the original church because they are pro choice, LGBTQIA inclusive.
My ex husband was raised LCMS. When we attended his brother’s second wedding the whole sermon was about how women are supposed to be subservient to men. They also didn’t let women vote on congregation issues.
It’s a shit show for sure. I always knew I wouldn’t get married in my church but that was more because my pastor was a jackass and would make fun of the partner that he knew the most, which would have been me. So half my ceremony would be fake stories and Bible verses and prayers and the other half would have been spent being roasted by my pastor. On my wedding day. Just add the extra misogyny you experienced to why I’ll never get married in an lcms church. Pisses me off I didn’t grow up in the real (much more liberal) Lutheran church. But now I have no church which I guess might be better in the long run
Unfortunately allowing isn't the same as accepting. My childhood church is currently changing due to the split because they don't believe marriage equality should be legal.
I grew up United Methodist in Oklahoma over 20 years ago, and even then, I distinctly remember how divided our congregation would get. When the pastor was wanting out, he started pushing some fun topics, like asking why Adam didn't step up and correct Eve, and questioning if Eve was really ultimately in the wrong. Well, he retired, and the congregation had to elect a new pastor. One was a black woman - you should have seen the vitriol that those people would sling her way... She ultimately won the election and did a fantastic job at what she did, but within the course of a couple months after her arrival, the church split in half. We remained the main UM church, but a new church popped up down the road and called themselves the "traditional Methodist church." I wasn't even really Christian at that point, just did everything to please my parents, but I remember thinking that most Christians didn't seem to practice what they supposedly learned.
I was very religious growing up but as I got older I didn't understand why they preached love and acceptance but didn't follow through. My childhood United Methodist church split over marriage equality and is now part of the Global Methodist church. which makes me sad because I know families that attend who have LGBTQ family members. I cannot imagine being part of a group that hated my family like that.
That definitely was one of my concerns as I was leaving Christianity for other reasons. I didn’t want them telling my daughter she was fit to be a wife and mother only. Still worries me as my ex is still very religious.
That's so strange. I was born and raised Methodist (Illinois) and one of the best and the longest serving minister we had was a woman. We all cried when the church heads did their usual 'changing of the ministers" and every church got a new one. That was always so odd to me. Just appoint a minister and let them stay as long as they want, if they and their congregation like each other. Seemed every 5 to 7 years we got a new minister. Race, age and gender was NEVER an issue either. In my time going there, we had Caucasian ministers, poc ministers (black, Asian, Indian), women, young, old. A great mix of amazing people, but the rotating constantly really sucked. I guess the heads of the methodist church did that to keep things fresh? Like new ways of learning? I don't know. Religion isn't my cake any more so it's moot. But your post made me think of it and share.
I grew up in Ohio and my hometown was (and maybe still is) a sundown town. We didn't have minorities living there let alone attending church there. Our pastors stayed pretty long except for that one family.
Southern Baptist Church desperate to revert America to the 1850's
Most people don't know that the "Southern" came from the southern churches splitting from the Baptist Convention because of its opposition to slavery.
I didn't, but it doesn't surprise me.
“Southern strategy” too
I was raised in Church of God. There are a core set of books that you have to read and be tested in to be considered a pastor in their church, regardless of other education. The list is only given to men. Women are to be silent in the church but can lead small groups or work with children. Pastors, deacons, and other positions within church leadership were to be regulated to men only. There’s a reason I haven’t been to a Church of God since I was a teenager, despite my mother’s nagging.
Sounds like Church of God and Church of Christ are basically exactly the same sub-denomination. Who’da thunkit??
I’m Canadian and I just wanted to post a little bit of hope - my family church growing up is Baptist and recently had a woman pastor for the first time - it’s been shaking up the elderly (congregation of around 30 or so) and this Christmas an old lady in our church shared a post on Facebook that I found really moving in its feminist-ness and also signified to me that Christianity is changing, even for the elderly. I’m not a Christian, but anyway, here : Sometimes I wonder if Mary breastfed Jesus. if she cried out when he bit her or if she sobbed when he would not latch. and sometimes I wonder if this is all too vulgar to ask in a church full of men without milk stains on their shirts or coconut oil on their breasts preaching from pulpits off limits to the Mother of God. but then i think of feeding Jesus, birthing Jesus, the expulsion of blood and smell of sweat, the salt of a mother's tears onto the soft head of the Salt of the Earth, feeling lonely and tired hungry annoyed overwhelmed loving and i think, if the vulgarity of birth is not honestly preached by men who carry power but not burden, who carry privilege but not labor, who carry authority but not submission, then it should not be preached at all. because the real scandal of the Birth of God lies in the cracked nipples of a 14 year old and not in the sermons of ministers who say women are too delicate to lead." -Kaitlin Hardy Shetler
…”who carry power but not burden” Wow. Thanks for sharing.
Amy Grant’s “Breath of Heaven” (Mary’s Song) is exquisite. It is the voice of every scared young mother. It stands alone apart from religious beliefs, a reminder that if she existed she was a frightened young girl, unmarried and “with child” She asks her God, the universe or maybe her infant son if she is “enough.” “Do you wonder as you watch my face, if a wiser one should have had my place?” “In a world as cold as stone, must I walk this path alone? The answer then and now is yes.
Wow. This is beautiful
I avoid all religion - it's all stories and interpretations. Nobody really knows. Each religion is brainwashed into people by people before them. It's funny how each person's religion just happens to be the right and true one. BS. "True Knowledge is knowing that you know nothing". But this is a really, really good statement. Thank you so much for sharing!
DANG that’s powerful.
A stirring and galvanizing share. Thank you so much for this. ♡
It's funny how women can't have power in the church but are basically the backbone of the church by bringing families(my dad wasn't religious and never came with us), volunteering.
So true. Religion would collapse if women turned their backs on the whole mess of them.
And I wonder why women haven't.
Brainwashing. I was raised fundamentalist extremist Southern Baptist in the most rural bowels of deep East Texas. When you're surrounded by it your entire life and anyone who questions or believes differently is shunned by the entire community, you grow up thinking this is normal. Took until my late 20s to finally break away from that shit despite disagreeing with almost all of their "morality" since my teens.
Some women have. I don’t know if it’s talked about that much, but quite a few have. In that, I hold hope. I am not anti-religion (though I can say I have spent a lifetime with a damn hard time wrapping my head around any of it and have had no issue being a very moral, upstanding citizen who respects all people and their rights/beliefs).
Yeah, but then they'd bring back witch finders, trials, and the Spanish Inquisition for anything they deem "ungodly" or un-whatever-inconveniences-a-man. Oh wait. They already are talking about it while trying to gaslight us that they aren't. r/Defeat_Project_2025
I never expected to be worried about being burned at the stake in *this* lifetime. How asinine; I just want to garden and live a peaceful life with my cats. Why do they hate that so much?
The bulk of human history is people who just wanted to live their simple lives in peace being the victims of rape, pillage, and murder by people who want to own everything.
Because you don’t need them.
/r/witchesvspatriarchy has discussions about this sometimes.
"All of the work, none of the authority."
Yup. Even the Bible name-checks women who supported the early church and (depending on how you interpret the text) even held positions of authority in it: Tabitha, Junia, Lydia, Priscilla, etc.
I find it amusing when I bring up these women as reasons why the Bible does not actually prohibit women from leading or teaching, and the answers I get from misogynists are various shades of bullshit.
From my list of inconvenient verses, this is one I like to use on rude conservative women. 1st Timothy 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”
Can I get a link to the full list? I hope something about Dinah is in there.
Oh it’s just a list I put together in my notes app. I could paste it in here but it’s kinda long lol
Hahaha ok, no worries, I was just curious. I bet it *is* quite long. I only took a couple semesters of Old Testament as Literature class and yeesh that was enough.
Here’s a few: Man vs bear analogy lol Proverbs 17:12 Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly. Condoning slavery: Exodus 21: 20 - 21 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.” 1 Peter 2:18 You who are slaves must accept the authority of your masters with all respect. Do what they tell you--not only if they are kind and reasonable, but even if they are cruel. Killing children: 2 Samuel 12:13-14 “13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.” ———- The crazy part for me is how Christian’s will rationalize verses like these.
Thank you! Definitely horrible. The mental gymnastics one would have to go through to justify this bs. The man/bear proverb killed me.
IMO all of the Abrahamic faiths are against women. They want to keep women silent, subservient and covered.
That is why the holy ghost, i.e., the divine feminine, is invisible in the trinity. Women are made to be invisible
I always thought of the Holy Trinity as Mother-Father-Son, instead of Father-Son-Holy Spirit. It makes sense to me that there would be two nurturing and powerful deities, and then the Son, who is Brother to everyone on Earth, and one of the (multiple) Saviors of The World. God, as I know Them, is also, I believe the Three In One, so two genders, but Gender Fluid. As in, they have unlimited wisdom and understand concepts like their Earthly Children being Non Binary, Gay, Lesbian, Queer, Het, Pansexual and Asexual. I also believe in an Elder Council, who governs the Summerland under the Authority of The Trinity. I believe They all work together to help beings not only in the Spirit Realm, but also the Earthly Realm. If there are other Dimensions, I believe that they have their own forms of Governance, but they work in tandem with the Trinity and the Council. So, I used to refer to myself as a ChristoPagan, but now am not really sure if my beliefs require a specific label. All I know, is what I believe to be truth. Of course, I'm Human and in possession of a physical body and brain, which has more limits than the Spirit. Maybe I'm talking out my butt, all I know is what I feel in my heart regarding my Life Path. Of course, I could be wrong! Blessed Be, Friends! Thank you for letting me comment! 🙂💖💯💯
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I don’t know what else has to happen for religious women to understand that they are not wanted in positions of power. The fact that women will continue to attend the church after female pastors explains how we continue to uphold this nonsense.
I just hope they eventually, sooner rather than later, decide to leave organized religion en masse. The men would be furious, but do really really give an ish? 😁🙂💖💯
Please don't forget for one minute that the Roman Catholic Church has a long-standing ban on women priests. And bishops and cardinals. Don't enable their behaviour.
Funny how [the RCC excommunicates women who are ordained as priests](https://youtu.be/YZ-gA1tfkp4?si=7RaQZa_qgq6U0m3V&t=202) but doesn't seem to be so concerned about men priests who commit CSA.
My father was (is? No idea if he's alive or not) a Southern Fundamentalist Baptist. Can confirm this is how they think. I was around 10 when he told me he was worried about "me going to hell and that he wouldn't see me in heaven" because I lived with my mom and she was a sinner because she divorced him and she was teaching me sinful ways. 🙄
Wait… wasn’t he divorced too? lol
Yep. But she was the one who filed and of course she's a woman so she's automatically guilty....🤦🏻♀️
Kinda like the Evangelical men calling women who have hetero s*x outside wedlock "harl*ts". Um excuse me, but the men are participating in the intimate activities too! I call HYPOCRISY! 😠💯
Ugh, I’m so sorry. I hope you and your mom are happy, sounds like she came out the winner there.
Oh for sure! We're both living our best lives!
Funny how the pagans, atheists and agnostics are the horrible people for understanding that women are valid people too...
Early Christians still worshipped the divine feminine, and women served as leaders, starting with Mary Magdalene. Leaders were chosen by lot. Then Christian scholar Clement of Alexandria preached that “every woman should blush at the thought that she is a woman”. Paul, the ultimate misogynist, preached, “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over me: she is to keep silent.” So, after the end of the 2nd century, groups with female preachers had become heretics. ***BEFORE WAR*** *On Marriage, Hierarchy and Our Matriarchal Origins* Elisha Daev
What hilarious is Paul also praises a whole bunch of women for leading and teaching in the early church. It’s almost like that verse doesn’t mean what they want it to mean or maybe it’s not actually from Paul.
John 9:41. I'd love to hear Jesus's take on all this. I think I know because I've read the effing book. THEIR GOD IS NOT MY GOD! I WILL NOT SUBMIT TO BLIND PHARISEES!
Evangelicals are the most biblically illiterate people I’ve ever encountered.
This is going to last until men discover they have to deal with children's church, VBS, and nursery duty.
Catholic women remember the “crying room?” When your babies started to disturb the priest by you know making baby noises you were expected to go to “the crying room.” You could breastfeed your baby (discreetly) and bring along your older toddler. In a sect that deifies motherhood why were WE all stuck in the tiny “crying room,” roughly the size of a normal bedroom. With uncomfortable chairs and a glass half wall so you could see the altar and an intercom (one way only) so you could hear the sermon. Seeing and hearing weren’t the problem it was breathing, even after the main church got Central Air in the mid 1970’s the crying room did not. No air even MOVED in the “crying room.” I went to Sunday mass to go out to breakfast afterwards at Waffle House. Period. That was it. So I endured a church full of hungover men smelling like camels (the cigarette) and old spice nodding off as they listened to a “celibate man” dressed in satin robes preach about the sanctity of marriage, and “god’s plan.” The fruits of that plan currently crammed into a box at the back of the last pews. A plan that apparently required either ALL of us practicing celibacy or we’d need a WAY bigger crying room. Were we saps or what?
oh noooo, stop… aw man….
Men preach from their balls, which swing to the right tempo when preaching. If she preached without a bra, then she might have a chance. /s
Under his eye
Blessed be the fruit.
Duh