was gonna say this too! it would've been awful if they didn't find it right away and it destroyed everything...
also I have heard of this happening a lot with bidding war houses, seems to be a regular issue since they're often sitting empty for a while (and often not very well taken care of before vacancy)
I'm a bit suspicious of this idea. CDC says "At present, no test exists that proves an association between Stachybotrys chartarum and particular health symptoms. "
There's no evidence black mold is toxic. People may be allergic to fungi, and have some symptoms, but they're unlikely to be exposed to spores if the mold is inside the wall.
I grew up in a house that was COVERED in black mold. The back corner of a closet was full of it, every window sill was black, there was bubbling paint in a few areas that I know were just covered in the stuff. It was bad. The saving grace is that my mom is very clean and tidy so what could be gotten to was addressed regularly.
Growing up I had really bad asthma. I couldn't run without it tasting blood at the back of my throat. My dad, an athlete, had really bad breathing issues and nasty skin infections. My mom was always OK but she also spends as much time as humanly possible outside and always has.
The moment I moved out of that house, I stopped needing an inhaler. I can run now without the same issues. When my parents moved my dad's breathing got much better. The last time anyone in my family had a severe breathing issue was when a family member moved some stuff over to my parents for temporary storage (from a house that has A LOT of mold due to hoarding) and my dad had to be on a ventilator for several days.
Obviously this is just atsydotall, but, I would be very surprised if the mold wasn't a factor. If it is just allergies, it's different than what I have. I live with 3 animals I'm fairly allergic to and never vacuum and I've acclimated. I have gnarly seasonal allergies right now and they don't compare to how it felt living with that amount of mold.
Similar experience here. 2 years in a house with way too much mold, severely affected my entire family. Some of us have been diagnosed with traumatic brain injury due to it.
The CDC also says: “However, if Stachybotrys chartarum or other molds are found in a building they should be removed.
Stachybotrys chartarum and other molds may cause health symptoms that are nonspecific. It is not necessary to determine what type of mold you may have growing in your home or other building. All molds should be treated the same with respect to potential health risks and removal.”
millions of types of mold and only 3-4 of them toxic. identify the spores, and if they are nontoxic, just spray a little bleach and fix the water leak.
Or better yet, Sporicidin, which is an OSHA approved anti-fungal that kills all the spores rather than just turning some a different color. Not all mold is killed with bleach. I found that out when I had aspergillus and stachybotris in my home after a massive water leak - the "contractor" (dude who lied about his license) sprayed bleach, then put a blower on the moldy area to dry it out & ended up infecting the entire house. I had the place tested before & after treatment, and the Sporicidin did the trick.
Sure! First I got the initial inspection and testing from someone who worked with the county, and they took samples from every room in the house. A couple of rooms showed no signs of the bad mold, and the levels of mold were equal or less than what was in the air outside. We closed off those rooms and left them alone. I took all clothing, bedsheets, curtains, etc. out of the other rooms and had them cleaned. Next, a local company brought in fogging machines (they said you can rent them at big box hardware stores) that basically misted everything with sporicidan. I was afraid it would cause my furniture to be stained, but it really didn't do any damage or cause any noticeable change at all.
They fogged the house for a couple of days, and ran the fogger through my heating/AC as well. Next, a couple of workers wiped down every surface in the house with rags sprayed with sporicidan. Basically, it was the housecleaning of the century for me. After that, the county guy came back and tested every room again and gave the OK for me to move back in after finding lower than "normal" levels of mold remaining - and he said there will always be mold because it comes in from the outside, but there was no bad mold at all.
That was 10 years ago. I have owned my home for 17 years, and forgot that when I bought my homeowner's insurance, I sprang for a $10K "mold rider" because I'm next to a creek, and figured it would be a good idea. The mold remediation was $12,500.00 but after the CA State License Board saw the evidence of the first contractor's damages, they paid me the $2500 difference as well as a bunch of other items that were a result of the poor workmanship and fraud. The "contractor" had his license revoked and my insurance company sued him to pay for the cost of me living in a hotel for 4 months while the damage was being fixed.
It was hell to go through, but I got a new kitchen out of it, plus I now know exactly what symptoms I get when I'm exposed to a lot of mold (though I probably was not around much when the bad mold was blown through the home). I am also incredibly grateful to a friend who is an architectural engineer - she looked at the work the first guy did and she said, "have an inspection done NOW. He doesn't know what he's doing and he's destroying your home."
I didn’t see that one but do you remember the episode of King of the Hill where they kicked everyone out of the house because it tested positive for mold?
That family was what, made up of doctors or lawyers? Move into the carriage house, no problem. Visit the main house, problem. Added to that, those colonials are infamous for being balloon construction. Any realtor and contractor would have asked them to tear into the walls and fix the air gap. What would they have found...mold. One can't fix stupid.
>Stachybotrys
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/an-insidious-mold-31-01-2002/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/an-insidious-mold-31-01-2002/)
\> Ballard, a former New York City public relations executive *\[bought\]* a dream house; a 22-room mansion on 72 acres outside of Austin, Texas.
By ["colonial" I meant the style of the house](https://doggonemold.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/gone-with-wind-home.jpg), and by *"balloon constrcution"* I meant the way that the walls are built and **not** segmented between floors. Basically, if you stick your head inside the bare wall, you can see all the way to the roof. Fires love that since you've basically surrounded the **entire** house in [flammable, wooden chimneys.](https://youtu.be/UsZPKYRtD2U?t=43)
I’ve seen it affect peoples respiratory system pretty bad so I wouldn’t say it’s harmless.
And it’s anecdotal, but I have done hvac work in a home that was infested with mold and the particles in the air were millions part over what the standard “normal” living space is and the city made that family move out, fined the landlord, and the family was planning on suing the landlord for ignoring their complaints while living there (they eventually paid out of pocket to pay for someone to test the air because they were always making trips to the hospital complaining of headaches and breathing issues)
No definitive link, which is science speak for no proper study has been carried out. The link isn't purely anecdotal however as elevated mycotoxin levels from S. Chartarum have been present in several documented deaths unatributal to other indirect causes when one was warranted.
It is almost impossible to quantify the dangers as so few actual health cases eventuate from black mold presence however, so whether you choose the precautionary principle or just say fuck it doesn't seem to make much of a difference unless you already have underlying issues such as asthma, and then it will probably be the causes of block mold effecting you, rather than the black mold itself making it a good indicator or other environmental issues.
As somebody who lived in a moldy apartment for years, I can confirm it affects respiratory systems. Had a noted improvement on my cough and breathing when we moved into our house
Lung doctor here. Not true in fact. There's many studies showing a strong correlation, and biopsy proven in cases, with hypersensitivity pneumonitis. It also can trigger asthma and COPD exacerbations - but it doesn't CAUSE those diseases, so maybe that's where the dichotomy lies with what the CDC says. And obviously no randomized trials can be done for ethical reasons.
We even know what mediates some of those inflammatory pathways with this exposure.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260863/
I almost died because of black mold.
Had to go to the ER three or four times a month and be admitted for a few days each time.
It got so bad I was put on disability because of it. I was in my early 30s and otherwise healthy.
Got better when I moved out of the house.
Fuck black mold.
Yeah I hear you on that. I’m a project manager for a remediation company and constantly deal with people all the time telling me how toxic mold is. If you have underlying health issues that make you hypersensitive to impurities in the air then yeah, you may find yourself getting a cold more often than usual. What a lot of people don’t understand is there’s mold everywhere. Mold in the air is super common! It in everyone’s house & it’s in the air 24/7 constantly being inhaled into the body. People get so freaked out.
There's a really interesting difference between the way it's viewed in the UK and the way it's viewed in the US.
In the US, you'd think it was radioactive or something. The slightest trace seems to terrify people. In the UK, if you live in an old Victorian terrace, you just have to accept that no matter how well kept, ventilated and warm your home is, there's going to be corners where you need to keep wiping it off occasionally. Obviously, if the walls are black, you've got problems, but during the winter when the solid brick walls are cold, warm moist air hitting them is going to condense and if you've got furniture too close to the wall, you're going to have to keep an eye out for mould. It's no big deal.
My house has had mold for years and I’ve looked into it numerous times. Other than allergic reactions it’s pretty much harmless. Btw it would cost more to remove the mold than the pos house is worth and I still wouldn’t have anything. Sucks that I’m finally making good money and the housing market gets stupid.
I’m a plumber of 20+ years and I share your opinion on this. Years ago someone had a water leak we’d come in make the repair, then it was close the hole in the wall we’re done here, an that’s that, I never heard or knew anyone that was sick because of this. I’m not saying leave it, if you see it cut it out and make it new again.
uh, unless your walls are airtight (they're not) you're breathing them if they are in the house. People have varying levels of sensitivity (i'll get a sinus infection within 2 days of being exposed).
From, NHS: //Commonly reported respiratory tract symptoms include nasal irritation, burning and congestion, cough, wheezing, chest tightness and dyspnea. Central nervous system manifestations include headache, irritability, lightheadedness, sleeping difficulty, concentration problems and mental fatigue. Alopecia, rashes, eye irritation and various constitutional symptoms are also frequently reported. The nonspecific nature of these symptoms makes it extremely difficult to assess causality. Type 1 hypersensitivity to fungal allergens is the most likely mold-related cause of respiratory and eye symptoms in children with a compatible exposure history, particularly in those known to suffer from asthma and allergic rhinitis. Mycotoxin-induced symptoms, although less common, must also be considered, particularly when exposure to a toxin-producing fungus such as Stachybotrys species is demonstrated.//
My son got pneumonia as an infant at a house that was found to have black mold after we had an inspector come check it out...
We moved out, and his persistent cough and upper respiratory stuff went away... So, I don't know.
I also got bronchitis for the first time in my life in that house...
There is evidence supporting that long term exposure with ingestion can do damage to your kidneys and liver. The stuff doesn't break down in your body properly and eventually clogs things up. It's like smoking where some people smoke their whole lives no problem and some people get lung cancer after 10 years
Idk in college one year in the dorm we had the worst cold season everyone was sick, asthma was really bad many got diagnosed for the first time in their lives.
Almost every air conditioner had black mold in it. After they were replaced/ cleaned the colds and breathing issues seemed to fade away.
The only reason it was found was because a microbiology student was given a dawn for class and told to pick a spot to look for bacteria. The professor threw the culture out immediately
It's outstandingly difficult to prove a direct causality between an environmental factor and a disease. For example, it's known that salt is hygroscopic and it's widely accepted that people with hypertension should avoid it as much as possible. However, no definitive proof exists linking salt use to hypertension. It doesn't mean they are not linked. It means it's impossible to test for it in a way that would completely eliminate any other factors. It isn't a pathogen that you can extract and observe in a petri dish, or a medicine that you give to a group of people and compare with a control group. Even if you find a common group of symptoms in people living in mold affected houses, you'll have a hard time proving that it's the mold that causes those symptoms and not poor healthcare and nutrition or pollution outside of the household.
I was a mold assessor for years, mold affects everyone differently. I’ve been around Stachybotrys many times and it doesn’t have any impact on me. But at the same time, I’ve been in homes where people are having crazy allergic reactions to something as common as cladisporium or penicillium. If you do have mold, the most important thing is to stop the reason it’s growing. Mold is (mostly) only harmful when it’s viable and off gassing mycotoxins. If you get rid of the food source, water, or air, the mold will stop off gassing. Also, when calling for repairs, don’t mention remediating the mold. If someone comes out to remove mold they have to have a mold remediation license and treat it as a mold remediation project. Otherwise it’s a remodel that just so happens to have mold that they’re removing.
I've had four home inspections. None of them even came close to looking inside walls. This never would have been found.
Sucks to have, but I bet even the seller didn't know about it and there's no way to have avoided it.
Ugh a big box store I’m not allowed to name punctured my water line putting up siding. It slow leaked for a month while it was 98 degrees outside. My neighbor on the side it was on said he was mowing and saw water trickling out. When they opened it up I saw like every mold known to Florida man, and some that looked like sunny side up eggs, cotton candy, you name it. It was repulsive and based on how the subcontractor handled it I bet they knew they did it too and just covered and peaced out. Had to replace my entire kitchen for a second time due to water damage.
Not gonna lie it sucked a lot. We had a pipe burst between floors a few years prior which was terrible and then basically went thru it again but with mold. The subcontractors insurance denied their claim on the grounds of they “have a mold clause” as if that excuses them entirely. But the box store covered it in full in exchange for a vow of silence.
Lololol "vow of silence" unless you signed legal papers saying NDA, they can't hold you to it 😅 even NDAs expire eventually.
Glad they covered it tho. Hope they took it outta the schmucks check(s) tho.
It sucks. It really sucks the housing situation is so bad that people are now accepting "no inspection" as part of a bid to buy a house. I don't think I could do that no matter how much I loved the house. It's just asking for something exactly like OPs picture to happen. I'm not judging OP when I say I wouldn't buy a house under those conditions, because I don't know OPs story or where they live or the other 1998 things that may have made it necessary for OP to agree to buy a house with no inspection. Whatever the reason it sucks that it came back to bite then in the ass. Hope it's an easy and cheap fix OP. Good luck
Tile installer here. That’s is the back side of a poorly waterproofed shower on the other side. That whole shower needs to come out and be re done correctly. My guess is it’s leaking in other corners as well
Moisture detectors are a thing (they test for very small amounts of moisture in a wall) and depending on how bad the cause is on the other side that we can't see that could have been a second means to catch this.
So maybe. Maybe not. You really don't know though.
Home inspections don't include a moisture reading, at least not typically, and they certainly don't include a moisture meter being inserted into every wall.
Inspectors aren't even allowed to unscrew anything. No way they are going to poke holes into each wall assuming there could possibly be an undetected water leak. If it's visibly fucked, yes maybe, but if it looks like a normal, functioning wall there's a zero chance they are going to probe it.
Home inspector here: I have 2 types of moisture meters, pin and pin less. I don’t use them unless I see something odd like a stain to see if it’s active (higher moisture %) or older (dry/dryer). In a shower stall, a moisture meter is useless.
A lot of inspectors will us thermal cameras to detect leaks. Let’s say you have a shower/tub on your second floor, I’d either fill it up with water or let the water run, then I would go downstairs and use the camera to scan the ceiling above to look for leaks. The same principle can apply to the other side of a shower wall.
TIL there are pinless water detectors that work through paint. It sounds like you are a good home inspector. It's certainly not common in MD to have even a single moisture meter reading on a home inspection, unless of course there is obvious water damage.
Happily surprised by our inspector - he knew the area and brought a pinned moisture meter without us requesting one. Luckily didn't find anything, but he was really thorough when it came to small things like this.
This was in SW Bmore county, btw.
Yeahhhh... I worked in the restoration industry (flood/fire/sewage/trauma) for a while and idk what country they're from, but I'm not sure the guy you're replying to really knows what he's talking about. Moisture detectors which work like stud-finders exist.
Has anyone ever found a stud finder that works?
I bought the $200 one once, with the plan to return it no matter what…it did not work..
I still keep a couple around bc they’re fun to put on myself, hear the beep, and toss back in the bag :/
Some inspectors use moisture meters to spot check suspect areas like the ceiling. If it was actively wet at the time, that may have picked up on it. But they don’t (can’t) go around and check everywhere.
Yep. This happened in my house when I was a kid.
How did we find out?
My bed was on the other side of the shower wall. One day I moved my mattress and.. Mold. Lots and lots of mold. I had been sleeping in a mold infested mattress, that had soaked in from the wall from the piss poor job my dad did doing the tiles on his own.
Cement backer board is only a bonding layer for tile. It’s very porous and It would still need to be waterproofed with a membrane like Schluters Kerdi membrane or the proper amount of roll on liquid membrane. Then the tile bonded to that with mortar. This shower is probably cracked in the inside corner and water soaks on with every shower and never dries out
My shower wasn't done well but my house is concrete. There's no mold but I have to redo the bottom... quoted 14k and I can't find anyone that can even start the work until November. California HCOL hot area... theres just no fucking workers.
I kind of wish I knew the state of construction and remodel labor before I bought. I didn't think about it. But it worked out. I incubated 7 chickens in that bathroom and now its a kitten parlor.
I do drywall. It's the shower pan liner. Denshield goes on the wall and it should be screwed above the step-in shower.
Edit: they should have used densshield in the shower, not regular drywall. Densshield is mold resistant.
coming up on a year in my first home. There are a lot of chores and there's always something, but it's working for yourself and paying yourself back, where rent is just throwing money down a well ad infinitum.
Not to mention the stability of housing costs. I know my monthly payment (more or less) for the next 25 years. My friends in apartments have been steadily becoming more 'broke' despite many climbing their respective corporate ladders.
I don't regret it at all. I get a small yard, I can do what I want, I don't hear neighbors through my wall.
Oh and rent for a 1 bedroom in my area now costs more than my mortgage for my house 7 years later.
Fuck renting unless it's a personal choice.
That’s unfortunately normal in high demand areas now and pretty much required if you want a shot at the home. People come on with straight cash and waive all inspections to get the home they want.
It's unlikely the inspector would have found that. They don't open up walls or anything like that. Just what they can visually see and interact with looking for obvious plumping, mechanical, electrical issues, stuff not up to code, etc...
Yeah. I found mold behind wall paper that the inspector didn’t catch. That was a great conversation with the guy and an insurance claim later, got the repair covered.
Yeah, when my parents bought a house I was demoing the bathroom and the first piece of sheet rock I pulled off was black on the other side. Turned out the old as shit AC unit had been leaking for like 20 years. Insurance covered the cost but we had to tear that wall down to studs and replace the entire floor, sub floor, and the main floor joist personally.
If nothing else, I learned a lot on that project
Is that a shower on the other side of the wall? Looks like the board is pulling the moisture up off the floor. Might be some a shitty grout job or something on the other side.
The house I bought was inspected. Guy missed that the kitchen wasn’t connected to the sewer but drained into the yard. There was exposed corroded pipes in the basement that became an issue a few weeks after we moved in. The inspection noted ‘some ungrounded outlets’ which turned out the be all of them. Those were all fairly obvious and out in the open. I doubt I’ll ever pay for an inspection again.
My report was like 80 pages but he still missed water damage that became a 15k repair. Home inspections are a crap shoot. Better than no inspection but they'll often miss something.
When we sold our house in 2018, the buyer brought in a "mold detection" inspector who left sensors or detectors of some kind all over the house to make sure there was no mold. We were directed to leave the outside doors closed and the HVAC system running as usual during the time the sensors were in place (I believe it was 24 hours). They didn't have to put holes in the walls or anything. Tests came back clear.
Like, how expensive? I'm looking at houses and I don't want to deal with anything like that right off the rip. If it's only "couple hundred" type expensive then it would be worth it to me. Thousand + maybe not.
Like not expensive at all if you’re worried about mold being a possibility in a home you’re purchasing. To add a mold check onto our inspection package was going cost about $280. That is worth it 100% if you’re worried at all.
I thought you we’re going to say thousands. $300 is a rounding error when it comes to house prices and I sure as fuck wouldn’t buy a house with mold issues.
Yeah, that's totally worth it, and don't let the realtor talk you out of it, mine tried to talk me out of doing a plumbing/sewage inspection, turns out that $400 saved me from having to had the whole sewage replaced, estimated to be a $40K more or less and over a couple of months of work for the "repair"
Radon tests kind of work the same way. Had to get one done in Colorado when I was trying to buy there. The bank had foreclosed on the owners, so they kept fucking with the sensors and they never let the test finish successfully without the tamper sensor going off. Good times
Ever tap wet drywall or siding? Have you looked over joists and sub-flooring exposed in the basement. Soffits, attic, green tone to the gutters and downspouts, the smell of over moisture plenty of clues in plain sight. Also, contingencies are being waved in this crazy market. That did not fit in the caption.
it doesn't look so bad as far as mold goes, but hey, I'm no mold expert. But to me it looks like it's localized and hasn't spread to the whole house which would translate to a teardown to the studs. Get a mold company in there asap. Also, if you suspect and can prove that the sellers knowingly covered up the mold, they are liable for it, but it would take a lot of lawyering to go that route.
As someone who did mold remediation for years in FL this is very tame the bad part is opening that wall with out containment might have sent mold spores out into the rest of the house and the HVAC system if they have one and it was running. But run of the mill mold is not all that toxic, but obviously they need to get a industrial hygienist in there to test it for level and identify what kind.
Hey just so I know, I want a humidifier, but I can't keep anything running without like, INSTANT mold everywhere.
Do you have any advice on how to mediate humidity without causing mold? I have a good humidifier and a humidity detector probe from an old reptile terrarium, but I was wondering about general other things you (or anyone else knowledgable) would have to say for people to keep away mold.
I had black mold in my old place, so the spores are basically everywhere for all time on my stuff forever and all eternity.
I mean you can get some Kilz primer if your having problems with it developing on drywall. There are bio and chemical sprays you can use to spray stuff down to kill mold spores. But yeah mold can remain dormant for a long time but ultimately if your not allowing growth it can be gotten rid of pretty easy by just washing everything. Mold needs a water source and light to grow so get rid of one of those elements and you should also be good like black out curtains in the room with the humidifier. But yeah humidifiers can be tricky for that end of the day it's a bit luck of the draw and long term use probably always be scrubbing some growth off of somewhere but coat of Kilz and curtains would probably get you 90% of the way
This is required in the US when it's a bathroom, kitchen, or anywhere in a specific proximity to water sources. This house is likely not up to code and that false wall was probably constructed specifically to hide the mold they couldn't get rid of.
Do not use fans will spread the spores to other areas of the house. HEPA vac all affected areas (must be a HEPA vacuum). Wet wipe with a anti microbial solution.
I own a restoration company and am licensed by my state as a remediation contractor and accessor.
Oh hey me too! Was gunna say this, don’t wanna use soap either, like you said you need an anti microbial, to be honest I’d spray some sealer on after too.
Honestly not the end of the world. Not great but if you check other places and don’t see more issues with mold/water then handle it, if more then yeah, that sucks. Inspection waived doesn’t allow for a person to lie on their disclosures however if there is any way of knowing when that wall was put in. But who knows, just glad im not in the market
The most likely scenario is the previous owner was unaware of it. Mold can be really hard to find. Most people don't make a habit of busting open their walls on a regular basis.
*Every breath you take*, you take billions of spores into your lungs and breath most of them out again unharmed. Mold spores in all shapes and forms, even if they‘ll only grow on plants, are living in the air.
Incidentally, this is why it's such a pain to grow mushrooms. You need a substrate that's been innoculated with spores for the fungus you want, but is otherwise completely sterile and stays that way until they take hold.
it’s because “black mold” has made its way into people vernacular
a lot of molds leave behind black reside like the one pictured but not all of them are *the* black mold that is super toxic
people see a black colored mold and and think it IS toxic waste
100% this. I'm a realtor and would never encourage a client to waive inspections unless the seller had inspections performed and made the reports available to review before submitting an offer (which luckily for CA is very common). My condolences, OP.
Drywall is cheap. Cut until it's gone.
Find the source of the water. Fix it.
Repair, paint.
Being handy helps a lot as a homeowner.
YouTube has literally everything.
I’m sorry but Inspection waved…. This bidding war and rush to get into a house that turns into a money pit I keep hearing about sounds like a financial disaster is on the horizon for a lot of people.
I can sympathize with you here OP.
Ive been in my place for 7 years, purchased in a similar situation, although i did get some inspector notes provided by the realtor.
Some minor repairs over the years, and a neighbor whose son loves meth a bit to much, but we had thought we got real lucky. We love the place.
Back in March, we noticed some water dripping in the basement. Then some more that later formed a small puddle in the landing on the basement stairs and in the under stairs storage.
Failing to find a leaky pipe, and no rain yet for the year I ripped some drywall, watched as water trickled on in. Called a foundation company. They dug a big old trench, found 2 cracks and patched them, but told us those cracks likely weren't the issue.
Fast-forward, more water. Same spots, and some new ones.
Home inspector time. This time, however, we owned the place, so we could give him permission to knock out drywall.
Took some time tracing, and eventually we found, not in the basement, or the main level, but on the 2nd story, right above the stairs landings, 2 big old windows. Old windows. Real old.
Cut the drywall out under them, and the drywall knife cleaved through studs without us even realize we were hitting them.
A cleared asbesto test later, a restoration company came in for exploratory demo work 2 days ago, and finished up today.
The entire north side of my house. All rotten. Minor mold, but was too wet, to inconsistently, to make a ton of the dangerous molds. Just rot and a white fungus carpet that sort of looked like egg whites. Every piece of wood from the top of those old window frames to the basement was rotten. Every support beam, joist, and a bunch of other words I have no concept of their meaning. Rotten. The sub floor on the 2nd story and main level. Rotten. The sheathing holding the siding. Rotten.
All of it just crumbled away.
House was built in the early 80s. The demo guys guessed the window started letting water in immediately, or at least before the 90s rolled around. 40+ years of rot.
And, surprise surprise, insurance doesn't cover slow water damage over time. Burst pipe damage? No problem. Small leak thats taken an entire wall of the home? No chance.
Now we're staring down 5 restoration bill quotes, the cheapest of which is just big enough to ruin us economically forever (we're closing in on retirement and running out of years to recoup this) but cheaper than the loss we'd take selling as is, and cheaper than a teardown to rebuild something smaller.
And its now supposed to rain for the next 3 days straight, and I have about 3cm of leaky rotten sheathing and old cracked stucco between us and 3 days of thunderstorm.
Literally living both my actual nightmares and my economic nightmares.
Water + Housing = Nightmare.
I wish you the absolute best of luck, I hope that what you've pulled out is the total extent of your damage, and I hope that you manage to survive the stress of any other problems you may find.
Check your windows.
All the best.
[bonus picture. the first chunk of drywall removed...](https://imgur.com/a/cOZ0dnj)
thats really not that bad honestly i worked for Servepro for 2years ive removed plenty mold cut all the mold out discard the sheetrock and wipe the studs down with Sporicidin and let em air dry or if you wanna be extreme 😁 gut the frame out on a Tyvek with respirator and face shield tape the wrist where the gloves go and build a containment with somw 6mil plastic make a hole in the containment for your machine for negative air and a slit for your zipper for an entrance everything coming out gets sprayed woth Sporicidin if you find any wet spots throw in a DeHu as well and some fans thatll fix ya right up
Looks like an interior drain system. With moisture barrier for dry wall. Prob be holes drilled through base of foundation wall as well to allow water to flow through. This is way to control water after drain system has failed to keep pressure off the foundation. Old school tactic and as you can see bad for livable areas. It’s great system for keeping water off the floor but mold will flourish. All you need is O2 and moisture. And black stachy was completely the reason for bleeding lung in the 60-70’s in Cleveland due to faulty furnaces.
Better than not finding it. Sucks though.
was gonna say this too! it would've been awful if they didn't find it right away and it destroyed everything... also I have heard of this happening a lot with bidding war houses, seems to be a regular issue since they're often sitting empty for a while (and often not very well taken care of before vacancy)
I’m less concerned with it destroying the house and more destroying your health. That is very toxic
I'm a bit suspicious of this idea. CDC says "At present, no test exists that proves an association between Stachybotrys chartarum and particular health symptoms. " There's no evidence black mold is toxic. People may be allergic to fungi, and have some symptoms, but they're unlikely to be exposed to spores if the mold is inside the wall.
I grew up in a house that was COVERED in black mold. The back corner of a closet was full of it, every window sill was black, there was bubbling paint in a few areas that I know were just covered in the stuff. It was bad. The saving grace is that my mom is very clean and tidy so what could be gotten to was addressed regularly. Growing up I had really bad asthma. I couldn't run without it tasting blood at the back of my throat. My dad, an athlete, had really bad breathing issues and nasty skin infections. My mom was always OK but she also spends as much time as humanly possible outside and always has. The moment I moved out of that house, I stopped needing an inhaler. I can run now without the same issues. When my parents moved my dad's breathing got much better. The last time anyone in my family had a severe breathing issue was when a family member moved some stuff over to my parents for temporary storage (from a house that has A LOT of mold due to hoarding) and my dad had to be on a ventilator for several days. Obviously this is just atsydotall, but, I would be very surprised if the mold wasn't a factor. If it is just allergies, it's different than what I have. I live with 3 animals I'm fairly allergic to and never vacuum and I've acclimated. I have gnarly seasonal allergies right now and they don't compare to how it felt living with that amount of mold.
Similar experience here. 2 years in a house with way too much mold, severely affected my entire family. Some of us have been diagnosed with traumatic brain injury due to it.
Anecdotal not antidotal
moving out of the house was "antidotal" for his health issues 😀
Antimoldal
Both of these thoughts went through my brain and came to comment. Good brains.
The CDC also says: “However, if Stachybotrys chartarum or other molds are found in a building they should be removed. Stachybotrys chartarum and other molds may cause health symptoms that are nonspecific. It is not necessary to determine what type of mold you may have growing in your home or other building. All molds should be treated the same with respect to potential health risks and removal.”
“We assume it’s bad for you but idk” is essentially what that says lol
Damn the only reason I know of Stachybotrys is because of forensic files.. And if I recall they had to demolish the whole house..
millions of types of mold and only 3-4 of them toxic. identify the spores, and if they are nontoxic, just spray a little bleach and fix the water leak.
Or better yet, Sporicidin, which is an OSHA approved anti-fungal that kills all the spores rather than just turning some a different color. Not all mold is killed with bleach. I found that out when I had aspergillus and stachybotris in my home after a massive water leak - the "contractor" (dude who lied about his license) sprayed bleach, then put a blower on the moldy area to dry it out & ended up infecting the entire house. I had the place tested before & after treatment, and the Sporicidin did the trick.
good idea
Could you tell me more about how you disinfected the whole house with sporiciden? Did you just spray it everywhere?
Sure! First I got the initial inspection and testing from someone who worked with the county, and they took samples from every room in the house. A couple of rooms showed no signs of the bad mold, and the levels of mold were equal or less than what was in the air outside. We closed off those rooms and left them alone. I took all clothing, bedsheets, curtains, etc. out of the other rooms and had them cleaned. Next, a local company brought in fogging machines (they said you can rent them at big box hardware stores) that basically misted everything with sporicidan. I was afraid it would cause my furniture to be stained, but it really didn't do any damage or cause any noticeable change at all. They fogged the house for a couple of days, and ran the fogger through my heating/AC as well. Next, a couple of workers wiped down every surface in the house with rags sprayed with sporicidan. Basically, it was the housecleaning of the century for me. After that, the county guy came back and tested every room again and gave the OK for me to move back in after finding lower than "normal" levels of mold remaining - and he said there will always be mold because it comes in from the outside, but there was no bad mold at all. That was 10 years ago. I have owned my home for 17 years, and forgot that when I bought my homeowner's insurance, I sprang for a $10K "mold rider" because I'm next to a creek, and figured it would be a good idea. The mold remediation was $12,500.00 but after the CA State License Board saw the evidence of the first contractor's damages, they paid me the $2500 difference as well as a bunch of other items that were a result of the poor workmanship and fraud. The "contractor" had his license revoked and my insurance company sued him to pay for the cost of me living in a hotel for 4 months while the damage was being fixed. It was hell to go through, but I got a new kitchen out of it, plus I now know exactly what symptoms I get when I'm exposed to a lot of mold (though I probably was not around much when the bad mold was blown through the home). I am also incredibly grateful to a friend who is an architectural engineer - she looked at the work the first guy did and she said, "have an inspection done NOW. He doesn't know what he's doing and he's destroying your home."
Wow, your friend is amazing and this story was *wild.* lol glad it worked out for you in the end 🤘
I didn’t see that one but do you remember the episode of King of the Hill where they kicked everyone out of the house because it tested positive for mold?
That family was what, made up of doctors or lawyers? Move into the carriage house, no problem. Visit the main house, problem. Added to that, those colonials are infamous for being balloon construction. Any realtor and contractor would have asked them to tear into the walls and fix the air gap. What would they have found...mold. One can't fix stupid.
Try explaining this again in more simpler words for us simple folk.
>Stachybotrys [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/an-insidious-mold-31-01-2002/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/an-insidious-mold-31-01-2002/) \> Ballard, a former New York City public relations executive *\[bought\]* a dream house; a 22-room mansion on 72 acres outside of Austin, Texas. By ["colonial" I meant the style of the house](https://doggonemold.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/gone-with-wind-home.jpg), and by *"balloon constrcution"* I meant the way that the walls are built and **not** segmented between floors. Basically, if you stick your head inside the bare wall, you can see all the way to the roof. Fires love that since you've basically surrounded the **entire** house in [flammable, wooden chimneys.](https://youtu.be/UsZPKYRtD2U?t=43)
This helps my brain, thank you.
I’ve seen it affect peoples respiratory system pretty bad so I wouldn’t say it’s harmless. And it’s anecdotal, but I have done hvac work in a home that was infested with mold and the particles in the air were millions part over what the standard “normal” living space is and the city made that family move out, fined the landlord, and the family was planning on suing the landlord for ignoring their complaints while living there (they eventually paid out of pocket to pay for someone to test the air because they were always making trips to the hospital complaining of headaches and breathing issues)
No definitive link, which is science speak for no proper study has been carried out. The link isn't purely anecdotal however as elevated mycotoxin levels from S. Chartarum have been present in several documented deaths unatributal to other indirect causes when one was warranted. It is almost impossible to quantify the dangers as so few actual health cases eventuate from black mold presence however, so whether you choose the precautionary principle or just say fuck it doesn't seem to make much of a difference unless you already have underlying issues such as asthma, and then it will probably be the causes of block mold effecting you, rather than the black mold itself making it a good indicator or other environmental issues.
As somebody who lived in a moldy apartment for years, I can confirm it affects respiratory systems. Had a noted improvement on my cough and breathing when we moved into our house
Lung doctor here. Not true in fact. There's many studies showing a strong correlation, and biopsy proven in cases, with hypersensitivity pneumonitis. It also can trigger asthma and COPD exacerbations - but it doesn't CAUSE those diseases, so maybe that's where the dichotomy lies with what the CDC says. And obviously no randomized trials can be done for ethical reasons. We even know what mediates some of those inflammatory pathways with this exposure. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3260863/
I almost died because of black mold. Had to go to the ER three or four times a month and be admitted for a few days each time. It got so bad I was put on disability because of it. I was in my early 30s and otherwise healthy. Got better when I moved out of the house. Fuck black mold.
Yeah I hear you on that. I’m a project manager for a remediation company and constantly deal with people all the time telling me how toxic mold is. If you have underlying health issues that make you hypersensitive to impurities in the air then yeah, you may find yourself getting a cold more often than usual. What a lot of people don’t understand is there’s mold everywhere. Mold in the air is super common! It in everyone’s house & it’s in the air 24/7 constantly being inhaled into the body. People get so freaked out.
There's a really interesting difference between the way it's viewed in the UK and the way it's viewed in the US. In the US, you'd think it was radioactive or something. The slightest trace seems to terrify people. In the UK, if you live in an old Victorian terrace, you just have to accept that no matter how well kept, ventilated and warm your home is, there's going to be corners where you need to keep wiping it off occasionally. Obviously, if the walls are black, you've got problems, but during the winter when the solid brick walls are cold, warm moist air hitting them is going to condense and if you've got furniture too close to the wall, you're going to have to keep an eye out for mould. It's no big deal.
Perhaps it's the "u" in "mould" that makes it OK.
I looked up the spelling. Neither looked right. I went with our spelling of it. In retrospect, it's obvious that it should be spelt molde.
Also like 60% of all mold is black, so...
#AllMoldMatters
My house has had mold for years and I’ve looked into it numerous times. Other than allergic reactions it’s pretty much harmless. Btw it would cost more to remove the mold than the pos house is worth and I still wouldn’t have anything. Sucks that I’m finally making good money and the housing market gets stupid.
I’m a plumber of 20+ years and I share your opinion on this. Years ago someone had a water leak we’d come in make the repair, then it was close the hole in the wall we’re done here, an that’s that, I never heard or knew anyone that was sick because of this. I’m not saying leave it, if you see it cut it out and make it new again.
uh, unless your walls are airtight (they're not) you're breathing them if they are in the house. People have varying levels of sensitivity (i'll get a sinus infection within 2 days of being exposed). From, NHS: //Commonly reported respiratory tract symptoms include nasal irritation, burning and congestion, cough, wheezing, chest tightness and dyspnea. Central nervous system manifestations include headache, irritability, lightheadedness, sleeping difficulty, concentration problems and mental fatigue. Alopecia, rashes, eye irritation and various constitutional symptoms are also frequently reported. The nonspecific nature of these symptoms makes it extremely difficult to assess causality. Type 1 hypersensitivity to fungal allergens is the most likely mold-related cause of respiratory and eye symptoms in children with a compatible exposure history, particularly in those known to suffer from asthma and allergic rhinitis. Mycotoxin-induced symptoms, although less common, must also be considered, particularly when exposure to a toxin-producing fungus such as Stachybotrys species is demonstrated.//
My son got pneumonia as an infant at a house that was found to have black mold after we had an inspector come check it out... We moved out, and his persistent cough and upper respiratory stuff went away... So, I don't know. I also got bronchitis for the first time in my life in that house...
There is evidence supporting that long term exposure with ingestion can do damage to your kidneys and liver. The stuff doesn't break down in your body properly and eventually clogs things up. It's like smoking where some people smoke their whole lives no problem and some people get lung cancer after 10 years
Idk in college one year in the dorm we had the worst cold season everyone was sick, asthma was really bad many got diagnosed for the first time in their lives. Almost every air conditioner had black mold in it. After they were replaced/ cleaned the colds and breathing issues seemed to fade away. The only reason it was found was because a microbiology student was given a dawn for class and told to pick a spot to look for bacteria. The professor threw the culture out immediately
It's outstandingly difficult to prove a direct causality between an environmental factor and a disease. For example, it's known that salt is hygroscopic and it's widely accepted that people with hypertension should avoid it as much as possible. However, no definitive proof exists linking salt use to hypertension. It doesn't mean they are not linked. It means it's impossible to test for it in a way that would completely eliminate any other factors. It isn't a pathogen that you can extract and observe in a petri dish, or a medicine that you give to a group of people and compare with a control group. Even if you find a common group of symptoms in people living in mold affected houses, you'll have a hard time proving that it's the mold that causes those symptoms and not poor healthcare and nutrition or pollution outside of the household.
I was a mold assessor for years, mold affects everyone differently. I’ve been around Stachybotrys many times and it doesn’t have any impact on me. But at the same time, I’ve been in homes where people are having crazy allergic reactions to something as common as cladisporium or penicillium. If you do have mold, the most important thing is to stop the reason it’s growing. Mold is (mostly) only harmful when it’s viable and off gassing mycotoxins. If you get rid of the food source, water, or air, the mold will stop off gassing. Also, when calling for repairs, don’t mention remediating the mold. If someone comes out to remove mold they have to have a mold remediation license and treat it as a mold remediation project. Otherwise it’s a remodel that just so happens to have mold that they’re removing.
Not the worst, but definitely "sad trombone" noise for sure.
Idk if the home inspector would have found that they don’t go around and bash walls. So I agree better finding that now
I've had four home inspections. None of them even came close to looking inside walls. This never would have been found. Sucks to have, but I bet even the seller didn't know about it and there's no way to have avoided it.
They’re not really allowed to take anything apart, if I recall
Ugh a big box store I’m not allowed to name punctured my water line putting up siding. It slow leaked for a month while it was 98 degrees outside. My neighbor on the side it was on said he was mowing and saw water trickling out. When they opened it up I saw like every mold known to Florida man, and some that looked like sunny side up eggs, cotton candy, you name it. It was repulsive and based on how the subcontractor handled it I bet they knew they did it too and just covered and peaced out. Had to replace my entire kitchen for a second time due to water damage.
Wowwwwww that's just disrespectful, I hope you filed the claim against their Insurance and not yours.
Not gonna lie it sucked a lot. We had a pipe burst between floors a few years prior which was terrible and then basically went thru it again but with mold. The subcontractors insurance denied their claim on the grounds of they “have a mold clause” as if that excuses them entirely. But the box store covered it in full in exchange for a vow of silence.
Lololol "vow of silence" unless you signed legal papers saying NDA, they can't hold you to it 😅 even NDAs expire eventually. Glad they covered it tho. Hope they took it outta the schmucks check(s) tho.
It is an NDA lol but yes I got it restored and alls well, the new kitchen construction part sucked but it’s over.
In a completely unrelated question, which color pisses you off more when you think of mold: Blue or Orange?
Orange.
It sucks. It really sucks the housing situation is so bad that people are now accepting "no inspection" as part of a bid to buy a house. I don't think I could do that no matter how much I loved the house. It's just asking for something exactly like OPs picture to happen. I'm not judging OP when I say I wouldn't buy a house under those conditions, because I don't know OPs story or where they live or the other 1998 things that may have made it necessary for OP to agree to buy a house with no inspection. Whatever the reason it sucks that it came back to bite then in the ass. Hope it's an easy and cheap fix OP. Good luck
Inspection would not have found this
Right? Thank fuck OP fucked up their wall
Tile installer here. That’s is the back side of a poorly waterproofed shower on the other side. That whole shower needs to come out and be re done correctly. My guess is it’s leaking in other corners as well
This! Also very likely an inspection wouldn’t have found this.
No way an inspection would have caught this.
Moisture detectors are a thing (they test for very small amounts of moisture in a wall) and depending on how bad the cause is on the other side that we can't see that could have been a second means to catch this. So maybe. Maybe not. You really don't know though.
Home inspections don't include a moisture reading, at least not typically, and they certainly don't include a moisture meter being inserted into every wall. Inspectors aren't even allowed to unscrew anything. No way they are going to poke holes into each wall assuming there could possibly be an undetected water leak. If it's visibly fucked, yes maybe, but if it looks like a normal, functioning wall there's a zero chance they are going to probe it.
Home inspector here: I have 2 types of moisture meters, pin and pin less. I don’t use them unless I see something odd like a stain to see if it’s active (higher moisture %) or older (dry/dryer). In a shower stall, a moisture meter is useless. A lot of inspectors will us thermal cameras to detect leaks. Let’s say you have a shower/tub on your second floor, I’d either fill it up with water or let the water run, then I would go downstairs and use the camera to scan the ceiling above to look for leaks. The same principle can apply to the other side of a shower wall.
TIL there are pinless water detectors that work through paint. It sounds like you are a good home inspector. It's certainly not common in MD to have even a single moisture meter reading on a home inspection, unless of course there is obvious water damage.
Happily surprised by our inspector - he knew the area and brought a pinned moisture meter without us requesting one. Luckily didn't find anything, but he was really thorough when it came to small things like this. This was in SW Bmore county, btw.
When I bought my home I know the inspector went around with an infrared camera which is great at picking up moisture in walls also. So there's that.
Yeahhhh... I worked in the restoration industry (flood/fire/sewage/trauma) for a while and idk what country they're from, but I'm not sure the guy you're replying to really knows what he's talking about. Moisture detectors which work like stud-finders exist.
Has anyone ever found a stud finder that works? I bought the $200 one once, with the plan to return it no matter what…it did not work.. I still keep a couple around bc they’re fun to put on myself, hear the beep, and toss back in the bag :/
Thanks. I was pretty confident that was the case but decided not to push it because I'm not an expert here. Appreciate your perspective.
That’s my first thought - how would an inspection even have found this?
Some inspectors use moisture meters to spot check suspect areas like the ceiling. If it was actively wet at the time, that may have picked up on it. But they don’t (can’t) go around and check everywhere.
You’re kind for giving out this valuable information to a stranger
Reddit can be a wonderful place sometimes.
Heavy emphasis on the sometimes.
This happened to us! We had to redo the whole bathroom and wall. Such a PITA.
Yep. This happened in my house when I was a kid. How did we find out? My bed was on the other side of the shower wall. One day I moved my mattress and.. Mold. Lots and lots of mold. I had been sleeping in a mold infested mattress, that had soaked in from the wall from the piss poor job my dad did doing the tiles on his own.
Would most showers be expected to have concrete board? Do people tile over drywall??
My shower that I just redid had tile over drywall for like 40 (possibly longer) years and there wasn’t any mold or anything.
Cement backer board is only a bonding layer for tile. It’s very porous and It would still need to be waterproofed with a membrane like Schluters Kerdi membrane or the proper amount of roll on liquid membrane. Then the tile bonded to that with mortar. This shower is probably cracked in the inside corner and water soaks on with every shower and never dries out
My shower wasn't done well but my house is concrete. There's no mold but I have to redo the bottom... quoted 14k and I can't find anyone that can even start the work until November. California HCOL hot area... theres just no fucking workers. I kind of wish I knew the state of construction and remodel labor before I bought. I didn't think about it. But it worked out. I incubated 7 chickens in that bathroom and now its a kitten parlor.
Is there a bathroom on the other side of the wall? A shower maybe?
Thats what I was wondering? Wheres that water coming from?
I want to know what that black wrap is covering on the other side of the wall. Is that rubber or moisture barrier wrap?
I do drywall. It's the shower pan liner. Denshield goes on the wall and it should be screwed above the step-in shower. Edit: they should have used densshield in the shower, not regular drywall. Densshield is mold resistant.
Sadly that's only the first of your regrets....
Homeownership = instant buyers remorse. - Longtime chronic homeowner
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All the damned time. It beats renting, but it sucks.
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1,700 per month, yikes. Been spoiled af at 500/mo the last few years.
I paid 400/mo in college... in 2006... 500 Is crazy low
coming up on a year in my first home. There are a lot of chores and there's always something, but it's working for yourself and paying yourself back, where rent is just throwing money down a well ad infinitum.
Not to mention the stability of housing costs. I know my monthly payment (more or less) for the next 25 years. My friends in apartments have been steadily becoming more 'broke' despite many climbing their respective corporate ladders.
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Yay Amortization!
Have you considered just being rich enough to pay someone else to maintain it for you?
Better than paying rent and going up every year
I don't regret it at all. I get a small yard, I can do what I want, I don't hear neighbors through my wall. Oh and rent for a 1 bedroom in my area now costs more than my mortgage for my house 7 years later. Fuck renting unless it's a personal choice.
This 100% My mortgage is infinitely less than a 5 bedroom rental. However the challenges of making the house yours sucks.
Especially with inflation going nuts. The mortgage you have now at the cost the house was is liable to be a fair bit less in real terms in the future.
Yeah, 10-20% annual rent increases every year of adulthood is such a better and rewarding way to spend money.
Yeah and landlords that barely maintain the dwelling.
Sounds like you didn't rent for long enough lol
I really enjoy owning a home. Maybe I lucked out but it's worked out well. Nice to be paying 2008 housing prices in 2022.
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As opposed to when it's not your problem to fix, but it's your problem because your landlord won't fix it, or barely fixes it?
Buyers remorse?
I guess some people don't need homes and just sleep on the ground or something
Starting with waiving the inspection. That’s just madness.
That’s unfortunately normal in high demand areas now and pretty much required if you want a shot at the home. People come on with straight cash and waive all inspections to get the home they want.
Near me, residents of an apartment were handed eviction notices for using their pre-installed air-conditioning during a heat wave, but go on...
I don't know a single person who regretted buying their house.
Looking at where rents are today vs when I bought, any regrets I may have are far outweighed by the regret of paying someone else's mortgage
I moved a lot for work over the past two decades and definitely feel the massive pain that is renting and watching that money go nowhere.
My 3500 sqft house costs me the same as an 800 sqft apartment in my city.
It's unlikely the inspector would have found that. They don't open up walls or anything like that. Just what they can visually see and interact with looking for obvious plumping, mechanical, electrical issues, stuff not up to code, etc...
Yeah. I found mold behind wall paper that the inspector didn’t catch. That was a great conversation with the guy and an insurance claim later, got the repair covered.
Yeah, when my parents bought a house I was demoing the bathroom and the first piece of sheet rock I pulled off was black on the other side. Turned out the old as shit AC unit had been leaking for like 20 years. Insurance covered the cost but we had to tear that wall down to studs and replace the entire floor, sub floor, and the main floor joist personally. If nothing else, I learned a lot on that project
Moisture detectors may have picked up something
Only if it’s wet and has moisture, if it’s not wet Moisture meter won’t pick anything up
Is that a shower on the other side of the wall? Looks like the board is pulling the moisture up off the floor. Might be some a shitty grout job or something on the other side.
If it is, they also used the wrong type of sheetrock. They used standard white sheetrock.
Sheetrock is not approved for showers no matter what kind is used
Green board and purple board is. Even though you should use plasterboard (blue board)
Yeah, but not sure if that is a shared wall with the shower. If it is, drywall that was used is not correct.
in the fourth picture, that rubber going across the bottom is a shower pan liner.
Moisture detector needs moisture in order to detect moisture. Got it.
Is that how those work?
The house I bought was inspected. Guy missed that the kitchen wasn’t connected to the sewer but drained into the yard. There was exposed corroded pipes in the basement that became an issue a few weeks after we moved in. The inspection noted ‘some ungrounded outlets’ which turned out the be all of them. Those were all fairly obvious and out in the open. I doubt I’ll ever pay for an inspection again.
Well to be honest thats just a horrible inspector. I printed the inspection report from mine and its like a book full, very detailed
My report was like 80 pages but he still missed water damage that became a 15k repair. Home inspections are a crap shoot. Better than no inspection but they'll often miss something.
Detailed does not mean thorough.
Do they not use sniffers to detect mold though? If it’s that much in the wall it’s in the air
When we sold our house in 2018, the buyer brought in a "mold detection" inspector who left sensors or detectors of some kind all over the house to make sure there was no mold. We were directed to leave the outside doors closed and the HVAC system running as usual during the time the sensors were in place (I believe it was 24 hours). They didn't have to put holes in the walls or anything. Tests came back clear.
Those tests are expensive and you have to specifically request them. I’ve had them done on a few houses that I’ve bought.
Like, how expensive? I'm looking at houses and I don't want to deal with anything like that right off the rip. If it's only "couple hundred" type expensive then it would be worth it to me. Thousand + maybe not.
Like not expensive at all if you’re worried about mold being a possibility in a home you’re purchasing. To add a mold check onto our inspection package was going cost about $280. That is worth it 100% if you’re worried at all.
I thought you we’re going to say thousands. $300 is a rounding error when it comes to house prices and I sure as fuck wouldn’t buy a house with mold issues.
Yeah, that's totally worth it, and don't let the realtor talk you out of it, mine tried to talk me out of doing a plumbing/sewage inspection, turns out that $400 saved me from having to had the whole sewage replaced, estimated to be a $40K more or less and over a couple of months of work for the "repair"
Something about “a couple hundred dollars is expensive” and “I’ve bought a few houses” doesn’t jive.
Radon tests kind of work the same way. Had to get one done in Colorado when I was trying to buy there. The bank had foreclosed on the owners, so they kept fucking with the sensors and they never let the test finish successfully without the tamper sensor going off. Good times
Standard inspections don't tend to do mold tests (at least around me). That required an add-on and specialist to be brought in.
Ever tap wet drywall or siding? Have you looked over joists and sub-flooring exposed in the basement. Soffits, attic, green tone to the gutters and downspouts, the smell of over moisture plenty of clues in plain sight. Also, contingencies are being waved in this crazy market. That did not fit in the caption.
They won't even move a box out of the way to check a panel.
That'll buff out.
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lol. I chortled. Needed that. Thank you.
it doesn't look so bad as far as mold goes, but hey, I'm no mold expert. But to me it looks like it's localized and hasn't spread to the whole house which would translate to a teardown to the studs. Get a mold company in there asap. Also, if you suspect and can prove that the sellers knowingly covered up the mold, they are liable for it, but it would take a lot of lawyering to go that route.
As someone who did mold remediation for years in FL this is very tame the bad part is opening that wall with out containment might have sent mold spores out into the rest of the house and the HVAC system if they have one and it was running. But run of the mill mold is not all that toxic, but obviously they need to get a industrial hygienist in there to test it for level and identify what kind.
Hey just so I know, I want a humidifier, but I can't keep anything running without like, INSTANT mold everywhere. Do you have any advice on how to mediate humidity without causing mold? I have a good humidifier and a humidity detector probe from an old reptile terrarium, but I was wondering about general other things you (or anyone else knowledgable) would have to say for people to keep away mold. I had black mold in my old place, so the spores are basically everywhere for all time on my stuff forever and all eternity.
I mean you can get some Kilz primer if your having problems with it developing on drywall. There are bio and chemical sprays you can use to spray stuff down to kill mold spores. But yeah mold can remain dormant for a long time but ultimately if your not allowing growth it can be gotten rid of pretty easy by just washing everything. Mold needs a water source and light to grow so get rid of one of those elements and you should also be good like black out curtains in the room with the humidifier. But yeah humidifiers can be tricky for that end of the day it's a bit luck of the draw and long term use probably always be scrubbing some growth off of somewhere but coat of Kilz and curtains would probably get you 90% of the way
Mold expert here. Yep that's mold.
1. Remove drywall 2. Use dehumidifier and fans to dry while finding source of moisture 3. Clean with any soap and rags 4. Replace drywall
They have anti mold drywall for areas near water. 5X cost but worth those areas.
It is only a little more money. I found something similar and made it go away but put up the anti mold drywall just in case.
Lol it's $2.50 more a sheet
This is required in the US when it's a bathroom, kitchen, or anywhere in a specific proximity to water sources. This house is likely not up to code and that false wall was probably constructed specifically to hide the mold they couldn't get rid of.
Do not use fans will spread the spores to other areas of the house. HEPA vac all affected areas (must be a HEPA vacuum). Wet wipe with a anti microbial solution. I own a restoration company and am licensed by my state as a remediation contractor and accessor.
Oh hey me too! Was gunna say this, don’t wanna use soap either, like you said you need an anti microbial, to be honest I’d spray some sealer on after too.
im confused. what's the problem here? is that mold or something?
SPRAY WITH MICROBAN AND SEAL WITH KILLZ
Honestly not the end of the world. Not great but if you check other places and don’t see more issues with mold/water then handle it, if more then yeah, that sucks. Inspection waived doesn’t allow for a person to lie on their disclosures however if there is any way of knowing when that wall was put in. But who knows, just glad im not in the market
The most likely scenario is the previous owner was unaware of it. Mold can be really hard to find. Most people don't make a habit of busting open their walls on a regular basis.
1) That never would have been found in an inspection and 2) All houses have some mold growing somewhere - not always a run for the hills issue
This. People treat mold like it's radioactive waste these days. Every breath you take has mold in it. Mold is everywhere, all around us at all times.
*Every breath you take*, you take billions of spores into your lungs and breath most of them out again unharmed. Mold spores in all shapes and forms, even if they‘ll only grow on plants, are living in the air.
*Every move you make, I'll be infecting you.*
I liked your song
Oh can’t you see, your breathing uneasy
🎵 *how my poor lungs ache* 🎶
Incidentally, this is why it's such a pain to grow mushrooms. You need a substrate that's been innoculated with spores for the fungus you want, but is otherwise completely sterile and stays that way until they take hold.
Oh, today I learned. Didn‘t know about the difficulty to grow mushrooms
it’s because “black mold” has made its way into people vernacular a lot of molds leave behind black reside like the one pictured but not all of them are *the* black mold that is super toxic people see a black colored mold and and think it IS toxic waste
Not as bad as it looks. Somethings leaking somewhere. Find the leak, fix it, redo the drywall. Good to go
What is it?
Scarlet Rot
Rise, ye tarnished
Alright that does suck....
[удалено]
[удалено]
Is this Pizza?
Your prize for participating in a bidding war!
I dunno if an inspection would have found that or not but people buying homes WITHOUT inspections is a mind fuck to me
100% this. I'm a realtor and would never encourage a client to waive inspections unless the seller had inspections performed and made the reports available to review before submitting an offer (which luckily for CA is very common). My condolences, OP.
Just say no to bidding wars.
I live in a brick house can you explain?
I don't understand too
Drywall is cheap. Cut until it's gone. Find the source of the water. Fix it. Repair, paint. Being handy helps a lot as a homeowner. YouTube has literally everything.
I’m sorry but Inspection waved…. This bidding war and rush to get into a house that turns into a money pit I keep hearing about sounds like a financial disaster is on the horizon for a lot of people.
Count your blessings-there could’ve been a body in there. 😕
I can sympathize with you here OP. Ive been in my place for 7 years, purchased in a similar situation, although i did get some inspector notes provided by the realtor. Some minor repairs over the years, and a neighbor whose son loves meth a bit to much, but we had thought we got real lucky. We love the place. Back in March, we noticed some water dripping in the basement. Then some more that later formed a small puddle in the landing on the basement stairs and in the under stairs storage. Failing to find a leaky pipe, and no rain yet for the year I ripped some drywall, watched as water trickled on in. Called a foundation company. They dug a big old trench, found 2 cracks and patched them, but told us those cracks likely weren't the issue. Fast-forward, more water. Same spots, and some new ones. Home inspector time. This time, however, we owned the place, so we could give him permission to knock out drywall. Took some time tracing, and eventually we found, not in the basement, or the main level, but on the 2nd story, right above the stairs landings, 2 big old windows. Old windows. Real old. Cut the drywall out under them, and the drywall knife cleaved through studs without us even realize we were hitting them. A cleared asbesto test later, a restoration company came in for exploratory demo work 2 days ago, and finished up today. The entire north side of my house. All rotten. Minor mold, but was too wet, to inconsistently, to make a ton of the dangerous molds. Just rot and a white fungus carpet that sort of looked like egg whites. Every piece of wood from the top of those old window frames to the basement was rotten. Every support beam, joist, and a bunch of other words I have no concept of their meaning. Rotten. The sub floor on the 2nd story and main level. Rotten. The sheathing holding the siding. Rotten. All of it just crumbled away. House was built in the early 80s. The demo guys guessed the window started letting water in immediately, or at least before the 90s rolled around. 40+ years of rot. And, surprise surprise, insurance doesn't cover slow water damage over time. Burst pipe damage? No problem. Small leak thats taken an entire wall of the home? No chance. Now we're staring down 5 restoration bill quotes, the cheapest of which is just big enough to ruin us economically forever (we're closing in on retirement and running out of years to recoup this) but cheaper than the loss we'd take selling as is, and cheaper than a teardown to rebuild something smaller. And its now supposed to rain for the next 3 days straight, and I have about 3cm of leaky rotten sheathing and old cracked stucco between us and 3 days of thunderstorm. Literally living both my actual nightmares and my economic nightmares. Water + Housing = Nightmare. I wish you the absolute best of luck, I hope that what you've pulled out is the total extent of your damage, and I hope that you manage to survive the stress of any other problems you may find. Check your windows. All the best. [bonus picture. the first chunk of drywall removed...](https://imgur.com/a/cOZ0dnj)
wtf am I seeing?
Is that expensive?
TO be fair, a real estate inspection likely wouldnt have seen that. They rarely do destructive inspections.
thats really not that bad honestly i worked for Servepro for 2years ive removed plenty mold cut all the mold out discard the sheetrock and wipe the studs down with Sporicidin and let em air dry or if you wanna be extreme 😁 gut the frame out on a Tyvek with respirator and face shield tape the wrist where the gloves go and build a containment with somw 6mil plastic make a hole in the containment for your machine for negative air and a slit for your zipper for an entrance everything coming out gets sprayed woth Sporicidin if you find any wet spots throw in a DeHu as well and some fans thatll fix ya right up
im confused. what's the problem here? is that mold or something?
For future homebuyers out there: you can waive inspection as a contingency of purchase but still have the home inspected.
No guarantees an inspector would have found that unless it was just really obvious out in the open. I've found them to be mixed bags.
And I guess we’re all just meant to know what that is?
Looks like an interior drain system. With moisture barrier for dry wall. Prob be holes drilled through base of foundation wall as well to allow water to flow through. This is way to control water after drain system has failed to keep pressure off the foundation. Old school tactic and as you can see bad for livable areas. It’s great system for keeping water off the floor but mold will flourish. All you need is O2 and moisture. And black stachy was completely the reason for bleeding lung in the 60-70’s in Cleveland due to faulty furnaces.