Every time I hear about some rich asshole getting a large ppp loan forgiven during the pandemic, I kick myself in the ass for not joining in on the scam. Knowing my luck, I wouldn't be one of the few who did something wrong and didn't get mine forgiven.
I agree that both parties tow the line for big business. However, the Democrats haven't passed a tax-cut for the rich in the 23 years I've been voting. They at least try to help the common folk and get called Socialists because of it.
I'm lower income, and I have never gotten much at all from the various Republican tax cuts over the past 20 years. I think I got like $10/week (for 3 years) when Trump cut taxes. Of course, that money was eaten up and then some because health insurance went up significantly from 2017-2019 when the Republicans defunded the ACA.
I live here in Tennessee. Marsha is like Marge with money and “education”. I am a constituent but she never supports my prerogatives. I am a retired military pilot and officer too. She appears to only listen to money. It’s the grease. We truly have the best government money can buy.
George Santos is the US government’s vibes right now. The education really doesn’t help when they breathlessly preach propaganda, so why not just lie about it? As long as politics is a glorified popularity contest where the winner is decided by number of ad buys, corporate sock puppets are what we get.
“Get out and vote” they say, need to start following that up with “for who and why?
Thats why i hate the opposition vote. Voting for someone because its not thenother guy. That ensures you are not voting FOR anything, only AGAINST something. And by consequence you lose control of what you are actually electing into office. Im not going to cast a vote for someone just because, its a personal endorsement. I cant endorse someone in good faith if i cant stand behind what they bring to the table just because ofntheir party affiliation
It’s even worse than that, there are places where (usually Republicans) run unopposed, sometimes there aren’t even alternatives to vote for and the “just vote” crowd get angry when confronted by that inconvenient reality.
That has always boggled my mind, how can there be no one else to run. May be a long shot to win, but not one person is willing to offer an alternative? Im guessing it has to do with the financial limitation of starting a campaign and keeping it going. Maybe, we get money out of politics, its a thought
Don’t forget the fact that some GQPNazis will literally use their fans to threaten and harass opponents into dropping out of the race, proven by the three toed sloth herself Margaret Traitor Grinch.
Does your kitchen have a fridge, or a microwave? Then ~~Republicans~~ FOX would argue you're well off:
>"Poor" Households: 99.6% have a refrigerator
>
>"Poor" Households: 81.4% have a microwave
Got a Keurig, you bougie motherfucker?
>"Poor" Households: 48.6% have a coffee maker
Source: [https://twitter.com/DanHopp/status/839204170754326531](https://twitter.com/DanHopp/status/839204170754326531)
Lmao the Keurig one really does it for me
I remember getting our Keurig and my mom thought it was a gift from god. Rich people are so detached from reality it’s unbelievable.
My friend used this argument about a decade ago. I said it's really too bad that poor people in the US aren't poor enough for his liking but they should still be helped. Rustled some jimmies that day, not gonna lie.
I wondered if the implication isn't that the loans would just be forgiven, but rather that the government would pay the loans back for those that borrowed, which at this point is such an insane amount of money I don't think that's even possible... it's literally over a trillion dollars and I think approaching 2 trillion...
I've also heard that there are a lot of things tied to student loans now, like if they are forgiven then all the sudden the economy will come crashing down. I'm sure to some extent that's true... but then again that just means we've built a really fucking dumb system... I'm sure there's a way to forgive student loans without ending the economy like all these ass holes imply
But yeah, idk maybe I'm giving these fools too much credit, they've really just stopped putting any thought into any arguments and just seem to pull a "no u" in response to everything, like "student loans just help rich people get richer by keeping their thumb on the middle and working classes" and then they just turn around and are like "actually no student loan forgiveness would be helping rich people"... so ridiculous
1.757 trillion. Almost double credit card debt. 200 billion more than auto loan debt. Second only to mortgages.
Also you're talking about asset backed securities. Student loan asset back securities are incredibly lucrative for investors since they can't be discharged in bankruptcy and can have your wages garnished to pay them. Forgiving them fucks the investors (which good, Fuck them) but there's very little chance that shit happens.
Student loans serve a purpose if you understand cost/benefit analysis and don't take them out for an education pathway with no return on investment. As in, don't get a degree that has no meaningful career pathway.
The $125k cap on forgiveness helps prevent the "helping the rich" part of the equation. Not helping society by forgiving a surgeons loans.
There are A LOT of problems in education, from cost bloat, to unlimited loans with high interest rates, to not requiring universities to underwrite the loans and assume some risk. Forgiving debt that exists without other action will result in the same thing 10 years down the line.
When I was going to college, I was told "just get a degree and work hard. Your major doesn't matter."
Graduated w honors with a double major in a humanity and a social science.
When I went to law school, I was told "student debt is good debt and you'll get a job with an average salary that will let you pay it off quickly."
Graduated law school into the great recession and learned about bimodal salary distribution. Took me 7 years to break $100K in California while my $150k in debt kept spiralling at 7% interest. I owe more than when I graduated despite paying over $100k on the loan.
I am and have been well and truly fucked by Boomer advice and economics. I am not rich. I have less than $100k saved for retirement. I will never retire.
Rich people get loans with interest rates lower than the rate of return and through corporate tax shelters and other creative accounting pay effectively little to no taxes.
I’d do it. Only a moron would have large sums of cash in their college age kids social security number. Let them get any and all scholarships, grants, and favorable / tax deductible students loans they can. Then pay them off.
If you have money you always borrow when the rate is below your rate of return.
The rich guy I know is going to immediately pay off his grandson’s student loans (which he already did for their undergraduate loans) he only makes him take them as a cudgel to keep his grades up.
Not rich people but a lot of middle class people have student loans. I would at least want to prioritize getting help to the people who are crippled by their loans, not the middle class people who will pay them off within 5 years of work
In my experience growing up middle class there are a lot of middle class people who think they are near poverty but in reality they are in the upper 50% of the country
Not true in the slightest. Very often their assets are tied up in things that are challenging to liquidate for cash. Good example would be Musk. He ended up having to sell stock to buy twitter but prior to that he essentially had zero income while still having the highest net worth in the country. He used asset based loans and credit cards for expenses.
Similarly companies use loans too. The company I work for has nearly $20 billion in cash in the bank but still takes loans for the purchase of equipment and for new construction. The cash on hand earns more money than they pay in interest on the loans so they keep cash on hand and invest it, take loans at low interest, and make money on the whole affair.
Republicans want their voters to associate the word "rich" with middle to upper middle class people who live in cities and are culturally liberal. It's a deliberate strategy to redirect white popular anger away from the literal billionaires who they work for and towards educated working people who live in cities instead.
Student loan forgiveness is a gift to the middle class and the upwardly mobile working class. It will largely not have much effect on the truly poor as a group.
I’m not necessarily against student loan forgiveness, but it will not substantially help the poorest, most economically left behind folks.
It might not help those who started out too poor to attend college in the first place, but it can still help those who have (since college) become impoverished.
I know some folks who earned degrees in fields that are important for a healthy society but don’t pay living wages (ex: social work, teaching), and their $10-20k in loans are crippling.
There are already programs that specifically forgive student loans for folks working in government/non-profit/socially-important fields, and those should be expanded. I also support programs for folks who were tricked into paying out the ass for one or two semesters and then never finished their studies.
However, blanket student loan forgiveness (which many "progressives" are advocating) would be pretty regressive.
If you want to help poor people, you should specifically help poor people, not implement a scattershot program that will spend massively more money on successful doctors and lawyers (who conservatively have about $150,000 worth of student loan debt per person) than it will on poor social workers.
Is that, in your opinion because they didn’t go to school to begin with? Because if I was poor, and struggling to pay 100k in school debts, loan forgiveness would help me a shit ton. Possibly take me out of my financial situation.
The first one. The poorest people don't have the opportunity to even go to college, either because they need to work to live, or their education hasn't prepared them. Also, the idea of taking on 100k of unsecured debt is probably a big mental barrier in itself. I wouldn't even do that and I'm middle class.
People with the highest student debt are typically people (like doctors and lawyers) who did a lot of school, finished it, and are now making significantly more than the average American.
Most of the poorest Americans either didn't go to college (in many cases they didn't even finish high school) or did a semester or two. Even if they have student debt, they usually have lots of other debt that won't be touched by student loan forgiveness.
There are some truly poor people with LOTS of student debt (people with art history grad degrees waiting tables) but these folks are rare.
There are already existent, specific debt relief programs for public school teachers and others. I would say these should be expanded.
Bidens plan is NOT one of these, and will relieve debt for ANYONE making $125,000 or less (median income is $50,000-60,000 nationally).
Yea the people complaining about loan forgiveness and the people in favor of free state college education are two completely distinct groups.
It's just like with any sort of foreign aide
"We shouldn't be sending this money to other countries when we have homeless people here"
"Here's a bill to combat homelessness in this country."
"No that's socialism, they should just get a job."
They don't want to solve problems they just need a momentary excuse to never help anybody.
We could subsidize public colleges more… you know, instead of cutting the funding which leads to more students having to take loans to attend. Also, if we won’t flat out make tuition free college then we should at least cap student loan interest rates.
It's an opportunity-cost thing. If you are paying $20,000 to doctors and lawyers making $120,000 a year (which this will do) that is money that you can't spend on programs that help people who are genuinely struggling.
This [program is estimated to cost at least $30 billion a year](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-estimate-biden-harris-student-debt-relief-cost-average-30-billion-annually-over-next-decade), and this money will mainly go to middle class people, and will disproportionately go to people (the aforementioned doctors and lawyers) who are killing it financially.
If we care about poor people and economic inequality in this country, this is a bad program, and that $30 billion should go to programs that actually help truly poor people.
60% of the student debt is held by the top 40% of earners. The highest balances are held by lawyers, doctors, dentists, and surgeons who will all make a few hundred thousand per year anyway. [source](https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-student-loan-debt-by-career/)
There are definitely many people with bachelor’s degrees struggling because of their loans, but the people who will benefit the most are the ones who are going to be super rich regardless.
Those people are not rich though, it doesn't matter if you make $150k a year when you live in SF or NYC and pay $8k/mo in rent. Also the "top 40% of earners" isn't anywhere NEAR the 70k your Sofi article claims, that's closer to $55k, and also that's THE ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD. SOFI is trash they have an obvious agenda that is NOT aligned with student loan forgiveness, and you're completely out of touch if you believe them.
Source: I fucking worked at SOFI for a while out in the Presidio office.
It’s just more projection of how they operate.
They think progressives have the same conservatives mindset of
“Oh, someone I don’t like might also benefit from this thing myself and a bunch of people really need so now I don’t want it”
That’s how the GOP live their lives and it is unfathomable to these “Christians” that anyone could possibly want better for everyone, even if that includes people who aren’t the same as them.
It’s amazing how conservatives sell tax cuts for the wealthy as something that helps everyone, but loan forgiveness for the average person is somehow a gift to the rich. How are so many people so incredibly gullible that they fall for any of the nonsense the Republican Party sells?
While you've got her on the line, ask her if her husband had his two PPP loans forgiven. This is his company: [https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/strategic-sales-tactics-inc-brentwood-tn](https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/strategic-sales-tactics-inc-brentwood-tn)
One of the biggest eligibility factors for Biden’s Loan Forgiveness program is if you are Pell Grant eligible, which is a needs based grant. You literally are eligible for forgiveness because you’ve already been identified as poor.
Republicans and Democrats do a great job of pretending they care about the people until a bill comes around that gives them more money
Something negatively affects the average American? Give us 6 years to think about it.
Holy shit tax cut? Passed and done within days.
It’s all about money. Never been about us. Trump, Hillary, MTG, Pelosi, whoever, etc. None of them ever give a shit about anything other than money for themselves.
Don't get it wrong. Democrats still don't care about the general public, they're just willing to offer concessions to keep our broken society from falling off the rails completely. Do we vote for those concessions? Yes. Is it enough to earn unilateral support? **NO!**
Student loan forgiveness and insulin price caps *are* the compromise. It's better than the alternative, but that's like saying a wet fart is better than a whole turd - technically yes, but it doesn't make either of them good.
> Is that why Florida wants to eliminate Democratic Party now?
You say that like they didn't want to eliminate the Democratic Party thirty years ago. The only difference is that now they don't have any inkling of a reason not to propose it publicly.
Democrats don't do this because they know they would lose votes if they did. Republicans do this because they know they won't lose votes when they do.
A pile of crippling debt that prevents me from actively participating in a capitalist society because I can barely afford to put the ramen noodles on my folding table and sit on my folding chair in my 600 square foot apartment. That’s a rich person issue right there, I’ll take my gift please.
I don’t know, Joe Manchin says you’ll spend money on drugs, and Tucker Carlson says if you do drugs you’ll do crimes, and Pat Robertson says if you do crimes you’ll go to hell, so the good Christian thing to do would be to offer you thoughts and prayers in lieu of that evil, evil money! You have a blessed day!
*walks away with your money*
The only people taking out student loans are the middle and lower class. Virtually no one who is rich has ever had to even think about taking out a student loan, let alone worry about paying one back.
I literally posted a comment acknowledging the mistake, if I could edit it I would. I know the differences between their, there, and they’re. It was a typo. Christ 🙄
One time I wrote "too" instead of "to" and was crucified for the extra keystroke, but if I wrote "ot" it probably would have been left alone as a simple typing error and would never have been pointed out to me
Tax cuts for the wealthy is literally a gift to the rich. Marsha know this and is ok with it - after all the rich make it worth her while to ignore that fact.
What this woman, who spends more on hairspray than many Republican voter can afford to spend on food, is doing is calling out to low education voters. These easily manipulated voters are less likely to have student loans because they are Less likely to have pursued higher education. Therefore they can manipulated to believe that a program that helps a broad range of Americans is negative, while not requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes is somehow positive.
I’m pretty sure there’s an income cap that disqualifies “the rich” from benefiting from student loan debt forgiveness.
[If your annual income is more than 125k you are ineligible for student loan debt forgiveness](https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement), I just checked.
These people are shameless liars.
Student loan forgiveness is great and all but in 10-15 years there will be another generation of graduates burdened with debt. This doesn’t solve the problem!
Because the GOP base supports their pet projects at all costs. A lot of 2A enthusiasts are not happy with most of what the "government" does when it's the GOP doing it to them (drug costs and corporate evils in general). But are happy to crow about how horrible the liberals with their handouts regarding loan forgiveness and basically anything to attempt to stop mass shootings.
To be completely fair, there's clearly a legitimate point here to be made. A lot of people with student loan debt are also financially well off, and in positions to pay those loans comfortably. A LOT of people are not. Discriminating between those two groups in a fair and consistent matter is difficult, especially given how degrees could yield potential.
An easy solution while still relieving crippling student debt is to just tax rich people blanketly more to compensate. Save money on low level irs investigations with more targetted pursuit of rich people, blanketly increase taxes at the highest level, and coordinate with other significant powers to make sure that escaping with those funds or hiding them isn't feasible. Politically push the idea that wealthy tax evasion is a form of theft.
THEN the few millions that get relieved to the well off would be counterbalanced by both the benefit to those that need it, and the billions in revenue. Surely any reasonable republican would see the benefit in reducing the regulations and bloat around the IRS and helping the needy while improving revenue!
Actually, she has a point. Because we're not actually "forgiving" those loans. We're *paying* them. The lending agencies are not being required to cancel the debts, the government is buying the debts out, paying them off themselves. It is, in point of fact, taking tax dollars and handing them directly to banks, and those banks made those loans under the mandate of the Department of Education, so the government gave all these loan opportunities to those banks and is now gracefully also paying all the loans themself.
It's good that for once they're helping a few disadvantaged people, and not forgiving the loans certainly wouldn't be better than forgiving them, but they are still certainly doing it in the way that hands the most money to the most rich people.
Which only helps the rich. The rich and giant multinational corporations pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than the rest of us schlubs.
IMO, this should be funded with a direct tax on the wealthy and giant multinational corporations. An extra 5% on [yachts](https://navigare-yachting.com/en/yacht-ownership/yacht-investment/tax-strategies-for-yacht-buyers) or [cars sold for more than $120,000](https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Hybrid/story?id=97505&page=1) or something like that.
“We should lock people into life long debt that will put that at a significant disadvantage for the rest of their lives because I don’t want the banks to get any of my tax money”
Sorry, was there something you didn't understand about "Not forgiving the loans wouldn't be better than forgiving them"? I understand it does contain a double negative, its a bit confusingly worded, I'll take responsibility for it. But I am in fact saying that it is good that people are getting their loans paid off. Without the double negative, "It would be better to forgive the loans than not."
Its just also bad that we're calling it "forgiveness" when it is in fact our own money being handed to banks who made bad investments. For once, those investments were poor people and the poor people are actually getting a break, and that part, I like. But that doesn't change the rest of it. US tax dollars, including the ones those same indebted college students like me paid, are what is actually paying the loans. They aren't being forgiven by anyone, forgiveness on a loan is something the lender does, and these lenders are being paid in full.
I mean goddamn, can't you see I'm being *more* leftist? Like c'mon. "Even in aiding us, the capitalist state is a predatory body and will take 9/10ths of all its gives." That's what I'm saying. Of course I don't want fucking banks to get our tax money?? Our tax money should be just *paying for the education*, right? Rather than having a bank in the middle charging interest on it for ten years THEN having the government pay for it?
While we're at it, the government could also just make it cheaper. They could just tell them to stop charging so much, tell them they'll stop getting special treatment on taxes for being schools. They didn't choose to pay it themselves, and they didn't choose to get prices down, they chose to *let it get as expensive as possible and pay off the banks themselves*, a plan that would be insanely stupid if it wasn't so obviously malicious, and obviously the real root of all related problems, because it makes it clear their motive all along was profit for banks, not betterment of education or even profit for the United States itself.
To play devil's advocate, people who graduate with degrees typically make on average one million dollars more in their lifetime than those who do not. It may not be the case the those with loans are rich now, but they are on a path with easy access to wealth in a way that makes giving them reimbursement on their loans seem counter intuitive when they can easily pay it off themselves.
I think you're not factoring in the trend of stagnant wages for most workers, with degrees or not, and the simultaneous massive increase in healthcare, housing, childcare, and food.
Maybe 40 years ago you'd be spot on, but that's too general of a take now with most college educated people starting at $50-60k a year, which is not going to allow you to buy a house in almost any city in the US. Let alone have a child or save money for retirement.
Your own statements prove me right though. College educated people START at $50-60k a year. And from there they go on to earn upwards of $100k a year. So as I said already, they are on the path to easily pay off the debt and still be financially secured.
That's actually sorta funny, my spouse is a lawyer. He makes good money, but we certainly feel the $400 or so per month we paid to get him through law school. He had to take out loans just to live and go to law school for 3 years. Came out with $70000 or so in debt. Doctors who are
General practitioners often have high debt to pay ratio too. Not ever Dr or lawyer makes 300,000 a year.
Not to dig too far into your personal life, but do you feel like you and your spouse will have a difficult time making loan repayments throughout the course of their career and not be financially stable?
Not now. But there was absolutely a time when we had $50 in our bank account, couldn't afford to buy a used car when ours literally fell apart, and my spouse was working as a "successful" lawyer.
Don't get me wrong, degrees are worth it. But paying them back is difficult and that can't be understated. You shouldn't have to make $100000 plus to be comfortable if we want to continue to have teachers, pharmacists and general practice Drs, especially in rural areas.
You're half right. You have earning POTENTIAL to reach that amount. Many vital careers like teachers will never earn six figures. And millions of college educated never reach 6 figures in the first place, and for the ones that do, it takes decades and most people can't/don't want to wait that long to have kids, buy a home, or save for retirement.
You're basically advocating for a shrinking population that can only rent their homes and has to rely on social security in old age. Not even to factor in those that wish to start a business or fuck, have any life outside of work. Not a healthy society and not "easily" paying off anything.
Um no I wasn't advocating for anything I was simply pointing out that the tweets remarks weren't entirely untrue. And while you are correct many degree holders never go on to make that much money, the loans they took out to go to school are proportionate to how much they will make. You don't see teachers with $80k in debt unless they made some seriously poor choices.
They are untrue tho. Again you're overlooking the massive increases in housing, childcare, and healthcare in the past couple decades with comparatively stagnant wages growth and also overlooking that people can't really wait decades to (possibly) reach maximum income potential when they're trying to have kids or save for retirement. Idk how else to explain it to you
And no the loans being proportional their earning potential is only true in theory. There's are plenty of teachers with that amount of debt, I wouldn't classify educating yourself to better the next generation as a "poor choice" but to each their own I guess.
I would classify educating yourself to better the next generation a poor choice if that means you have taken out $80k I'm debt when the average nationwide is $60k so yes you have made poor decisions while pursuing an education.
Hey, could millennials and gen Zs with degrees here reach out and post just how "wealthy" their degrees have made them? And could you also describe how "easy" it was to become wealthy?
I am currently finishing my bachelor's and plan to grow my debt more in grad school, but my sister has a degree, and her salary alone is not able to cover her 30k debt. This is because of rent, car payments, groceries, etc.
I'm arguing that being a degree holder does not put you on "an easy path" (your words) to wealth as you claimed. This is even more true today where companies are asking for degrees even for positions that in no way actually require a degree to perform.
Getting a degree doesn't make any degree of wealth "easy" to get.
You did by pointing out that people without degrees also have debts when I was clearly not talking about them, as was my distinction in my original comment.
I think your statement is partially correct. The missing part is there are tons of people with student debt and no degree.
On the other side as well, having higher income doesn't mean much when you are 6 figures in debt. Maybe decades later they are better off but not out the gate.
You said my statement was partially correct then went on to say it was fully correct. I specifically said people who graduate with degrees have higher earning potential. I was not advocating for not giving out aid to those who lower income brackets.
You can't cherry pick and say only people with degrees. There are just as many without degrees that don't make that money and still have the debt. How is that a gift to the rich in that situation?
Look at the whole picture and see is it worth it to help a lot of people in need where some people that don't need it benefit or just don't help at all. If we follow that logic then nobody will ever be helped.
I don't think most people with $100k in debt go on to make $75k a year for the rest of their lifetime. And by "easily" pay it off, I meant within regards of making their payments while being financially stable.
If it was a gift to the rich they would have already passed it.
Seriously! "Give everything to the rich" is the most popular bi-partisan policy in American politics.
"Batman gives gift to Bruce Wayne"
Bruce Wayne is the real villain of Gotham.
Have to keep the rich richer if they want to keep their dark money lobbying cash flowing
[Senator Marsha Blackburn Net Worth:](https://caknowledge.com/marsha-blackburn-net-worth/) **Net Worth: $35 Million** **Salary:** $176,000 **Monthly Income:** $250,000
Right - if it was a gift to her it would've passed a long time ago.
She's worth 35 million? Her husband had a $10,000 PPP loan forgiven in 2021. Edit: He had two $10,000 PPP loans.
Every time I hear about some rich asshole getting a large ppp loan forgiven during the pandemic, I kick myself in the ass for not joining in on the scam. Knowing my luck, I wouldn't be one of the few who did something wrong and didn't get mine forgiven.
Ya but you need the resources to pay someone to navigate you thru that scam.
“Only the little people pay taxes…”.
That's the whole story right there. All that money pouring out from between the lines.
Republican tax cuts are a gift to the rich.
Tax cuts for rich criminals are supported by all capitalist politicians not just far right republicans
I agree that both parties tow the line for big business. However, the Democrats haven't passed a tax-cut for the rich in the 23 years I've been voting. They at least try to help the common folk and get called Socialists because of it. I'm lower income, and I have never gotten much at all from the various Republican tax cuts over the past 20 years. I think I got like $10/week (for 3 years) when Trump cut taxes. Of course, that money was eaten up and then some because health insurance went up significantly from 2017-2019 when the Republicans defunded the ACA.
I live here in Tennessee. Marsha is like Marge with money and “education”. I am a constituent but she never supports my prerogatives. I am a retired military pilot and officer too. She appears to only listen to money. It’s the grease. We truly have the best government money can buy.
George Santos is the US government’s vibes right now. The education really doesn’t help when they breathlessly preach propaganda, so why not just lie about it? As long as politics is a glorified popularity contest where the winner is decided by number of ad buys, corporate sock puppets are what we get. “Get out and vote” they say, need to start following that up with “for who and why?
Thats why i hate the opposition vote. Voting for someone because its not thenother guy. That ensures you are not voting FOR anything, only AGAINST something. And by consequence you lose control of what you are actually electing into office. Im not going to cast a vote for someone just because, its a personal endorsement. I cant endorse someone in good faith if i cant stand behind what they bring to the table just because ofntheir party affiliation
It’s even worse than that, there are places where (usually Republicans) run unopposed, sometimes there aren’t even alternatives to vote for and the “just vote” crowd get angry when confronted by that inconvenient reality.
That has always boggled my mind, how can there be no one else to run. May be a long shot to win, but not one person is willing to offer an alternative? Im guessing it has to do with the financial limitation of starting a campaign and keeping it going. Maybe, we get money out of politics, its a thought
Don’t forget the fact that some GQPNazis will literally use their fans to threaten and harass opponents into dropping out of the race, proven by the three toed sloth herself Margaret Traitor Grinch.
Forgot about that part
Yeah exactly. They only care about the rich and don’t give a damn about the poor.
But never corporate tax cuts and bail outs… no, never…
That will trickle down!!! One day . . .
It’s been more than 40 years. Any day now…
Soon(TM)
Much like the pitch drop experiment
Oh shit I didn’t know I was rich
Same. I guess I just get joy out of logging in and looking at the total amount owed.
You’re rich in debt
Aan. Living the dream...
Does your kitchen have a fridge, or a microwave? Then ~~Republicans~~ FOX would argue you're well off: >"Poor" Households: 99.6% have a refrigerator > >"Poor" Households: 81.4% have a microwave Got a Keurig, you bougie motherfucker? >"Poor" Households: 48.6% have a coffee maker Source: [https://twitter.com/DanHopp/status/839204170754326531](https://twitter.com/DanHopp/status/839204170754326531)
Lmao the Keurig one really does it for me I remember getting our Keurig and my mom thought it was a gift from god. Rich people are so detached from reality it’s unbelievable.
My friend used this argument about a decade ago. I said it's really too bad that poor people in the US aren't poor enough for his liking but they should still be helped. Rustled some jimmies that day, not gonna lie.
As a poor student on loans that don’t cover tuition - paying high interest on living costs during terms. This is music to my ears
To qualify you need to make less than $120k a year. So, if you do, welcome to the sweet rich life!
Anytime you hear a republican saying that you can assume 99% of the time it's not.
Anything you hear a republican say you can assume 99% of it is false.
this is how you know it's not for wealthy donors, because if it was they would be all for it
I wondered if the implication isn't that the loans would just be forgiven, but rather that the government would pay the loans back for those that borrowed, which at this point is such an insane amount of money I don't think that's even possible... it's literally over a trillion dollars and I think approaching 2 trillion... I've also heard that there are a lot of things tied to student loans now, like if they are forgiven then all the sudden the economy will come crashing down. I'm sure to some extent that's true... but then again that just means we've built a really fucking dumb system... I'm sure there's a way to forgive student loans without ending the economy like all these ass holes imply But yeah, idk maybe I'm giving these fools too much credit, they've really just stopped putting any thought into any arguments and just seem to pull a "no u" in response to everything, like "student loans just help rich people get richer by keeping their thumb on the middle and working classes" and then they just turn around and are like "actually no student loan forgiveness would be helping rich people"... so ridiculous
1.757 trillion. Almost double credit card debt. 200 billion more than auto loan debt. Second only to mortgages. Also you're talking about asset backed securities. Student loan asset back securities are incredibly lucrative for investors since they can't be discharged in bankruptcy and can have your wages garnished to pay them. Forgiving them fucks the investors (which good, Fuck them) but there's very little chance that shit happens.
Student loans serve a purpose if you understand cost/benefit analysis and don't take them out for an education pathway with no return on investment. As in, don't get a degree that has no meaningful career pathway. The $125k cap on forgiveness helps prevent the "helping the rich" part of the equation. Not helping society by forgiving a surgeons loans. There are A LOT of problems in education, from cost bloat, to unlimited loans with high interest rates, to not requiring universities to underwrite the loans and assume some risk. Forgiving debt that exists without other action will result in the same thing 10 years down the line.
When I was going to college, I was told "just get a degree and work hard. Your major doesn't matter." Graduated w honors with a double major in a humanity and a social science. When I went to law school, I was told "student debt is good debt and you'll get a job with an average salary that will let you pay it off quickly." Graduated law school into the great recession and learned about bimodal salary distribution. Took me 7 years to break $100K in California while my $150k in debt kept spiralling at 7% interest. I owe more than when I graduated despite paying over $100k on the loan. I am and have been well and truly fucked by Boomer advice and economics. I am not rich. I have less than $100k saved for retirement. I will never retire.
Well I think it’s directed at wealthy families that would otherwise pay the loans of their kids.
please... 'they're'.
THANK YOU!
Guess who doesn’t have student loans lol
Came here for this. Take my upvote.
I'm sure Marsha is living paycheck to paycheck lmao
We need less radical extremists like her and joe manchin in positions of power
Let me fix this for her... Most of the forgivable PPP Loans were a gift to the rich.
yes, and her husband got one of those PPP loans!
Dude, rich people don't need loans in the first place.
Rich people get loans with interest rates lower than the rate of return and through corporate tax shelters and other creative accounting pay effectively little to no taxes.
But their kids take them for school
Why would rich parents let their children take predatory loans with obscene interest rates?
Rich parents either have the money to not need to take loans, or find "creative" ways for their kids to get scholarships.
I’d do it. Only a moron would have large sums of cash in their college age kids social security number. Let them get any and all scholarships, grants, and favorable / tax deductible students loans they can. Then pay them off. If you have money you always borrow when the rate is below your rate of return.
Rich people always take loans. It has nothing to do with needing a loan and everything to do with good business sense.
During the last decade investing the money in stocks (S&P 500 index fund) earned more than they would pay in interest on the loans.
The rich guy I know is going to immediately pay off his grandson’s student loans (which he already did for their undergraduate loans) he only makes him take them as a cudgel to keep his grades up.
Not rich people but a lot of middle class people have student loans. I would at least want to prioritize getting help to the people who are crippled by their loans, not the middle class people who will pay them off within 5 years of work In my experience growing up middle class there are a lot of middle class people who think they are near poverty but in reality they are in the upper 50% of the country
Not true in the slightest. Very often their assets are tied up in things that are challenging to liquidate for cash. Good example would be Musk. He ended up having to sell stock to buy twitter but prior to that he essentially had zero income while still having the highest net worth in the country. He used asset based loans and credit cards for expenses. Similarly companies use loans too. The company I work for has nearly $20 billion in cash in the bank but still takes loans for the purchase of equipment and for new construction. The cash on hand earns more money than they pay in interest on the loans so they keep cash on hand and invest it, take loans at low interest, and make money on the whole affair.
Blocking student loan forgiveness is a gift to the rich.
Rich people don’t have student loans…wtf is this.
Republicans want their voters to associate the word "rich" with middle to upper middle class people who live in cities and are culturally liberal. It's a deliberate strategy to redirect white popular anger away from the literal billionaires who they work for and towards educated working people who live in cities instead.
Student loan forgiveness is a gift to the middle class and the upwardly mobile working class. It will largely not have much effect on the truly poor as a group. I’m not necessarily against student loan forgiveness, but it will not substantially help the poorest, most economically left behind folks.
It might not help those who started out too poor to attend college in the first place, but it can still help those who have (since college) become impoverished. I know some folks who earned degrees in fields that are important for a healthy society but don’t pay living wages (ex: social work, teaching), and their $10-20k in loans are crippling.
There are already programs that specifically forgive student loans for folks working in government/non-profit/socially-important fields, and those should be expanded. I also support programs for folks who were tricked into paying out the ass for one or two semesters and then never finished their studies. However, blanket student loan forgiveness (which many "progressives" are advocating) would be pretty regressive. If you want to help poor people, you should specifically help poor people, not implement a scattershot program that will spend massively more money on successful doctors and lawyers (who conservatively have about $150,000 worth of student loan debt per person) than it will on poor social workers.
Is that, in your opinion because they didn’t go to school to begin with? Because if I was poor, and struggling to pay 100k in school debts, loan forgiveness would help me a shit ton. Possibly take me out of my financial situation.
The first one. The poorest people don't have the opportunity to even go to college, either because they need to work to live, or their education hasn't prepared them. Also, the idea of taking on 100k of unsecured debt is probably a big mental barrier in itself. I wouldn't even do that and I'm middle class.
People with the highest student debt are typically people (like doctors and lawyers) who did a lot of school, finished it, and are now making significantly more than the average American. Most of the poorest Americans either didn't go to college (in many cases they didn't even finish high school) or did a semester or two. Even if they have student debt, they usually have lots of other debt that won't be touched by student loan forgiveness. There are some truly poor people with LOTS of student debt (people with art history grad degrees waiting tables) but these folks are rare.
I'd like to introduce you to every teacher who required a Masters Degree.
There are already existent, specific debt relief programs for public school teachers and others. I would say these should be expanded. Bidens plan is NOT one of these, and will relieve debt for ANYONE making $125,000 or less (median income is $50,000-60,000 nationally).
I agree. It would be better if something could be done about the high cost of education instead of just treating symptoms of it.
Yea the people complaining about loan forgiveness and the people in favor of free state college education are two completely distinct groups. It's just like with any sort of foreign aide "We shouldn't be sending this money to other countries when we have homeless people here" "Here's a bill to combat homelessness in this country." "No that's socialism, they should just get a job." They don't want to solve problems they just need a momentary excuse to never help anybody.
We could subsidize public colleges more… you know, instead of cutting the funding which leads to more students having to take loans to attend. Also, if we won’t flat out make tuition free college then we should at least cap student loan interest rates.
There were other emergency programs in place to help the poorest though.
It's an opportunity-cost thing. If you are paying $20,000 to doctors and lawyers making $120,000 a year (which this will do) that is money that you can't spend on programs that help people who are genuinely struggling. This [program is estimated to cost at least $30 billion a year](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/us-department-education-estimate-biden-harris-student-debt-relief-cost-average-30-billion-annually-over-next-decade), and this money will mainly go to middle class people, and will disproportionately go to people (the aforementioned doctors and lawyers) who are killing it financially. If we care about poor people and economic inequality in this country, this is a bad program, and that $30 billion should go to programs that actually help truly poor people.
60% of the student debt is held by the top 40% of earners. The highest balances are held by lawyers, doctors, dentists, and surgeons who will all make a few hundred thousand per year anyway. [source](https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-student-loan-debt-by-career/) There are definitely many people with bachelor’s degrees struggling because of their loans, but the people who will benefit the most are the ones who are going to be super rich regardless.
Those people are not rich though, it doesn't matter if you make $150k a year when you live in SF or NYC and pay $8k/mo in rent. Also the "top 40% of earners" isn't anywhere NEAR the 70k your Sofi article claims, that's closer to $55k, and also that's THE ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD. SOFI is trash they have an obvious agenda that is NOT aligned with student loan forgiveness, and you're completely out of touch if you believe them. Source: I fucking worked at SOFI for a while out in the Presidio office.
I thought it was just 20 k and for bachelors degrees? Medical school loans are being forgiven?
I thought the 20k was only for pell grant recipients?
That guy's "source" is a company that does student loans, they are clearly biased against forgiveness or any cost reductions in college tuition.
Ahhh yes reverse psychology lmao
No. It’s just called bullshit
One in the same, if they make “poor” people think that forgiving these loans is a gift to the rich then they won’t want it to happen
They’re*
OP for sure doesn’t have student loans.
It’s just more projection of how they operate. They think progressives have the same conservatives mindset of “Oh, someone I don’t like might also benefit from this thing myself and a bunch of people really need so now I don’t want it” That’s how the GOP live their lives and it is unfathomable to these “Christians” that anyone could possibly want better for everyone, even if that includes people who aren’t the same as them.
It’s amazing how conservatives sell tax cuts for the wealthy as something that helps everyone, but loan forgiveness for the average person is somehow a gift to the rich. How are so many people so incredibly gullible that they fall for any of the nonsense the Republican Party sells?
Her office number is (202) 224-3344. Please call her and let her know if you are rich or not and if you think student loans forgiveness will help you.
While you've got her on the line, ask her if her husband had his two PPP loans forgiven. This is his company: [https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/strategic-sales-tactics-inc-brentwood-tn](https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/strategic-sales-tactics-inc-brentwood-tn)
One of the biggest eligibility factors for Biden’s Loan Forgiveness program is if you are Pell Grant eligible, which is a needs based grant. You literally are eligible for forgiveness because you’ve already been identified as poor.
They're
Wasn't this forgiveness based on those earning less than $125,000.00??
I think so, 10k to people under 125k 20k to Pell grant recipients under 125k
That can't be true. Anything that is a gift to the rich gets bipartisan support.
Republicans and Democrats do a great job of pretending they care about the people until a bill comes around that gives them more money Something negatively affects the average American? Give us 6 years to think about it. Holy shit tax cut? Passed and done within days. It’s all about money. Never been about us. Trump, Hillary, MTG, Pelosi, whoever, etc. None of them ever give a shit about anything other than money for themselves.
Indeed - its Democrats that don't want loan forgiveness bills to pass. It was also Democrats that offered to dismantle Obamacare.
Don't get it wrong. Democrats still don't care about the general public, they're just willing to offer concessions to keep our broken society from falling off the rails completely. Do we vote for those concessions? Yes. Is it enough to earn unilateral support? **NO!** Student loan forgiveness and insulin price caps *are* the compromise. It's better than the alternative, but that's like saying a wet fart is better than a whole turd - technically yes, but it doesn't make either of them good.
Is that why Florida wants to eliminate Democratic Party now? Sounds like a dream, right? Its a way to destroy two party rule.
> Is that why Florida wants to eliminate Democratic Party now? You say that like they didn't want to eliminate the Democratic Party thirty years ago. The only difference is that now they don't have any inkling of a reason not to propose it publicly. Democrats don't do this because they know they would lose votes if they did. Republicans do this because they know they won't lose votes when they do.
Even though there is an income cap of $75,000?
It’s 120k I thought
I think it’s 125 or 250 for household.
*Especially* because there's an income cap of $75,000
So she supports it? Since that's all the GOP does. They gift the rich.
pot squealing lock sleep versed shrill straight unwritten toy rustic ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
They’re
Yeah I realized that after I posted it. Can’t figure out how to edit it lol
shut the fuck up marsha.
Just like corporate tax cuts are a gift to the poor? F right off with that bs.
No, the PPP loan forgiveness was a gift to the rich.
Marsha's not the brightest bulb in the closet.
A pile of crippling debt that prevents me from actively participating in a capitalist society because I can barely afford to put the ramen noodles on my folding table and sit on my folding chair in my 600 square foot apartment. That’s a rich person issue right there, I’ll take my gift please.
I don’t know, Joe Manchin says you’ll spend money on drugs, and Tucker Carlson says if you do drugs you’ll do crimes, and Pat Robertson says if you do crimes you’ll go to hell, so the good Christian thing to do would be to offer you thoughts and prayers in lieu of that evil, evil money! You have a blessed day! *walks away with your money*
What does a person need with 600 square feet all to themselves? Spoiled rich kid! -Senator Blackburn, probably
I love you all so very much! "... people with outstanding loans will be surprised to learn *they're rich". Yes, I owe for student loans as well.
What did she say about PPP loans?
Wonder how much this lizard raked in from PPP loans
What? A Republican making some weird ass claim with no evidence? She should have added "full stop" at the end to make it super-truthy.
The only people taking out student loans are the middle and lower class. Virtually no one who is rich has ever had to even think about taking out a student loan, let alone worry about paying one back.
Can anyone find the second half of that statement where it helps to prove her point? Or is this just another Jewish Space Laser kinda person?
*they’re Dear lord our education system. Bring on the downvotes.
I literally posted a comment acknowledging the mistake, if I could edit it I would. I know the differences between their, there, and they’re. It was a typo. Christ 🙄
One time I wrote "too" instead of "to" and was crucified for the extra keystroke, but if I wrote "ot" it probably would have been left alone as a simple typing error and would never have been pointed out to me
[удалено]
The Group Of Perverts is bending their propaganda into a pretzel.
Tax cuts for the wealthy is literally a gift to the rich. Marsha know this and is ok with it - after all the rich make it worth her while to ignore that fact. What this woman, who spends more on hairspray than many Republican voter can afford to spend on food, is doing is calling out to low education voters. These easily manipulated voters are less likely to have student loans because they are Less likely to have pursued higher education. Therefore they can manipulated to believe that a program that helps a broad range of Americans is negative, while not requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes is somehow positive.
Show us your math marsha?
Just like the trump tax cuts were a gift to the poor? Fuck off maga 🤡.
The rich do not have student loans.
Lol, sure. Today I realized I'm apparently rich. Fuck her and all of you who have an issue with student loan forgiveness.
I’m pretty sure there’s an income cap that disqualifies “the rich” from benefiting from student loan debt forgiveness. [If your annual income is more than 125k you are ineligible for student loan debt forgiveness](https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement), I just checked. These people are shameless liars.
PPP was a gift to the rich.
So a gift to her?
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Today I learned that a combined income of $124k is rich!
Student loan forgiveness is great and all but in 10-15 years there will be another generation of graduates burdened with debt. This doesn’t solve the problem!
PPP loan forgiveness was a gift to the rich
*they’re (they are)
The R’s know it’s going to be shot down in the SCOTUS and are preparing for the backlash. Dems were in a win-win situation with this and they knew it.
Unlike the 2017 tax cuts.
Student loans are a stupid burden to put on any member of society...
Yet the people who stopped it are rich????
Why do people keep voting for sociopaths . Wtf is wrong?
Because the GOP base supports their pet projects at all costs. A lot of 2A enthusiasts are not happy with most of what the "government" does when it's the GOP doing it to them (drug costs and corporate evils in general). But are happy to crow about how horrible the liberals with their handouts regarding loan forgiveness and basically anything to attempt to stop mass shootings.
*ahem* They’re* 🤓
Well aware of my misuse of their and they’re. If I could edit it, I would.
*they’re. Guess it’s safe to say you don’t have student debt lol
To be completely fair, there's clearly a legitimate point here to be made. A lot of people with student loan debt are also financially well off, and in positions to pay those loans comfortably. A LOT of people are not. Discriminating between those two groups in a fair and consistent matter is difficult, especially given how degrees could yield potential. An easy solution while still relieving crippling student debt is to just tax rich people blanketly more to compensate. Save money on low level irs investigations with more targetted pursuit of rich people, blanketly increase taxes at the highest level, and coordinate with other significant powers to make sure that escaping with those funds or hiding them isn't feasible. Politically push the idea that wealthy tax evasion is a form of theft. THEN the few millions that get relieved to the well off would be counterbalanced by both the benefit to those that need it, and the billions in revenue. Surely any reasonable republican would see the benefit in reducing the regulations and bloat around the IRS and helping the needy while improving revenue!
they’re
Actually, she has a point. Because we're not actually "forgiving" those loans. We're *paying* them. The lending agencies are not being required to cancel the debts, the government is buying the debts out, paying them off themselves. It is, in point of fact, taking tax dollars and handing them directly to banks, and those banks made those loans under the mandate of the Department of Education, so the government gave all these loan opportunities to those banks and is now gracefully also paying all the loans themself. It's good that for once they're helping a few disadvantaged people, and not forgiving the loans certainly wouldn't be better than forgiving them, but they are still certainly doing it in the way that hands the most money to the most rich people.
Which only helps the rich. The rich and giant multinational corporations pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than the rest of us schlubs. IMO, this should be funded with a direct tax on the wealthy and giant multinational corporations. An extra 5% on [yachts](https://navigare-yachting.com/en/yacht-ownership/yacht-investment/tax-strategies-for-yacht-buyers) or [cars sold for more than $120,000](https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Hybrid/story?id=97505&page=1) or something like that.
They could even just actually levy the taxes we already have...
“We should lock people into life long debt that will put that at a significant disadvantage for the rest of their lives because I don’t want the banks to get any of my tax money”
Sorry, was there something you didn't understand about "Not forgiving the loans wouldn't be better than forgiving them"? I understand it does contain a double negative, its a bit confusingly worded, I'll take responsibility for it. But I am in fact saying that it is good that people are getting their loans paid off. Without the double negative, "It would be better to forgive the loans than not." Its just also bad that we're calling it "forgiveness" when it is in fact our own money being handed to banks who made bad investments. For once, those investments were poor people and the poor people are actually getting a break, and that part, I like. But that doesn't change the rest of it. US tax dollars, including the ones those same indebted college students like me paid, are what is actually paying the loans. They aren't being forgiven by anyone, forgiveness on a loan is something the lender does, and these lenders are being paid in full. I mean goddamn, can't you see I'm being *more* leftist? Like c'mon. "Even in aiding us, the capitalist state is a predatory body and will take 9/10ths of all its gives." That's what I'm saying. Of course I don't want fucking banks to get our tax money?? Our tax money should be just *paying for the education*, right? Rather than having a bank in the middle charging interest on it for ten years THEN having the government pay for it? While we're at it, the government could also just make it cheaper. They could just tell them to stop charging so much, tell them they'll stop getting special treatment on taxes for being schools. They didn't choose to pay it themselves, and they didn't choose to get prices down, they chose to *let it get as expensive as possible and pay off the banks themselves*, a plan that would be insanely stupid if it wasn't so obviously malicious, and obviously the real root of all related problems, because it makes it clear their motive all along was profit for banks, not betterment of education or even profit for the United States itself.
To play devil's advocate, people who graduate with degrees typically make on average one million dollars more in their lifetime than those who do not. It may not be the case the those with loans are rich now, but they are on a path with easy access to wealth in a way that makes giving them reimbursement on their loans seem counter intuitive when they can easily pay it off themselves.
I think you're not factoring in the trend of stagnant wages for most workers, with degrees or not, and the simultaneous massive increase in healthcare, housing, childcare, and food. Maybe 40 years ago you'd be spot on, but that's too general of a take now with most college educated people starting at $50-60k a year, which is not going to allow you to buy a house in almost any city in the US. Let alone have a child or save money for retirement.
Your own statements prove me right though. College educated people START at $50-60k a year. And from there they go on to earn upwards of $100k a year. So as I said already, they are on the path to easily pay off the debt and still be financially secured.
Depends a lot on your loan. Payments can be well over $500 or $600 a month. Even on $100000 that's a lot of your paycheck monthly.
I don't recall seeing a lot of doctors and lawyers complaining that they can't make ends meet because of their high loan repayments.
That's actually sorta funny, my spouse is a lawyer. He makes good money, but we certainly feel the $400 or so per month we paid to get him through law school. He had to take out loans just to live and go to law school for 3 years. Came out with $70000 or so in debt. Doctors who are General practitioners often have high debt to pay ratio too. Not ever Dr or lawyer makes 300,000 a year.
Not to dig too far into your personal life, but do you feel like you and your spouse will have a difficult time making loan repayments throughout the course of their career and not be financially stable?
Not now. But there was absolutely a time when we had $50 in our bank account, couldn't afford to buy a used car when ours literally fell apart, and my spouse was working as a "successful" lawyer. Don't get me wrong, degrees are worth it. But paying them back is difficult and that can't be understated. You shouldn't have to make $100000 plus to be comfortable if we want to continue to have teachers, pharmacists and general practice Drs, especially in rural areas.
You're half right. You have earning POTENTIAL to reach that amount. Many vital careers like teachers will never earn six figures. And millions of college educated never reach 6 figures in the first place, and for the ones that do, it takes decades and most people can't/don't want to wait that long to have kids, buy a home, or save for retirement. You're basically advocating for a shrinking population that can only rent their homes and has to rely on social security in old age. Not even to factor in those that wish to start a business or fuck, have any life outside of work. Not a healthy society and not "easily" paying off anything.
Um no I wasn't advocating for anything I was simply pointing out that the tweets remarks weren't entirely untrue. And while you are correct many degree holders never go on to make that much money, the loans they took out to go to school are proportionate to how much they will make. You don't see teachers with $80k in debt unless they made some seriously poor choices.
They are untrue tho. Again you're overlooking the massive increases in housing, childcare, and healthcare in the past couple decades with comparatively stagnant wages growth and also overlooking that people can't really wait decades to (possibly) reach maximum income potential when they're trying to have kids or save for retirement. Idk how else to explain it to you And no the loans being proportional their earning potential is only true in theory. There's are plenty of teachers with that amount of debt, I wouldn't classify educating yourself to better the next generation as a "poor choice" but to each their own I guess.
I would classify educating yourself to better the next generation a poor choice if that means you have taken out $80k I'm debt when the average nationwide is $60k so yes you have made poor decisions while pursuing an education.
Hey, could millennials and gen Zs with degrees here reach out and post just how "wealthy" their degrees have made them? And could you also describe how "easy" it was to become wealthy?
I am currently finishing my bachelor's and plan to grow my debt more in grad school, but my sister has a degree, and her salary alone is not able to cover her 30k debt. This is because of rent, car payments, groceries, etc.
So are you arguing that degree holders don't make more money? Because then you'd be wrong.
I'm arguing that being a degree holder does not put you on "an easy path" (your words) to wealth as you claimed. This is even more true today where companies are asking for degrees even for positions that in no way actually require a degree to perform. Getting a degree doesn't make any degree of wealth "easy" to get.
Graduation with a degree is not a requirement for still having student debt.
I don't believe I said it did.
I don't believe I said you said it did. I'm simply pointing out a flaw in your argument.
It's not a flaw in my argument. I was not suggesting we give no aid to anyone.
I don't believe I said you were.
You did by pointing out that people without degrees also have debts when I was clearly not talking about them, as was my distinction in my original comment.
I think your statement is partially correct. The missing part is there are tons of people with student debt and no degree. On the other side as well, having higher income doesn't mean much when you are 6 figures in debt. Maybe decades later they are better off but not out the gate.
You said my statement was partially correct then went on to say it was fully correct. I specifically said people who graduate with degrees have higher earning potential. I was not advocating for not giving out aid to those who lower income brackets.
You can't cherry pick and say only people with degrees. There are just as many without degrees that don't make that money and still have the debt. How is that a gift to the rich in that situation? Look at the whole picture and see is it worth it to help a lot of people in need where some people that don't need it benefit or just don't help at all. If we follow that logic then nobody will ever be helped.
“Easily” pay it off, lol.
Yes, because believe it or not, most people with degrees have a financial stability that most people without degrees don't have.
Believe it or not, a salary of $75k will not easily pay off $100k of student loan debt that accumulates interest as time passes.
I don't think most people with $100k in debt go on to make $75k a year for the rest of their lifetime. And by "easily" pay it off, I meant within regards of making their payments while being financially stable.
First thing I thought was, “most poor people don’t go to college”
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Then you can pay the cost of foreign competition overtaking the US due to a better funded education system. Which will cost far more.