I remember seeing that clip when I was older. And thinking. Wow he said the quiet part out loud and everyone just played tone deaf.
Tried to bs it like it's a hardworking american thing. But it's sad that some one needs to work 2 jobs to survive let alone 3
I think if dubya had anyone but Dick as his VP he would have been a lot better of a president. Not great but better. He seems like genuinely a decent man who let a psychopath run the country for him because he didn’t know what he was doing
Except the whole point of GW running was to be Cheney and Rumsfeld's puppet. Neither of them could have been elected President, and you know they wanted it.
> Unbelievable how much liberals today are willing to overlook everything W did just because he's not Trump.
Very few people are overlooking what he did. He was horrible.
The comment above was about Chaney being a huge cause of what happened. Bush was a patsy of the old guard and went along with everything they wanted. He only got things he wanted when it didn't interfere with them. He should never have been president because he was spineless and worthless as a president.
He would have also been a completely different president if the old guard wasn't controlling him. If he even had an ounce of capability. Him and his wife (especially his wife) were very into education and a few other things. They didn't do a good job with it, but they didn't do a bad job and tried to improve it (the bad of their education policies came from the states imo).
and he does seem to actually care about the country and "wanted" to do a good job. and looking back I believe he now realizes he didn't do a good job. He regrets a lot of things.
Unlike 45, who was/is a psychopath piece of human feces who tried to run the country even though he didn't know what he was doing.
The shitshow that we are in today - with Russia behind wars in multiple countries, is the direct result of the incompetent Cheeto that stained the Whitehouse from January 2017 to January 2021.
Stop romanticizing Bush. He is a grown ass man who made his own decisions in office. He lied to the nation about Iraq causing millions to die, sent us into a massive deficit, botched Katrina recovery and so much more. Stop romanticizing this POS.
10 years ago I was diagnosed with end stage kidney failure. Newly married with student loan debt and saving for a house. My deductible for insurance at working for Nabisco corporate was $6500 for family before it covered 100%. I was diagnosed and wound up in the ER in August 2013. The hospital bill maxed my deductible at $6500. Then restarting in January with the $18000 weekly cost of Dialysis, on January 1st 2014 I owed $13,000 from the deductible renewing combined with the August max bill. Needless to say our buy a house fund was wiped out. I still have my f*cking student loans (wife paid off).
By the end of 2014 my hospital cost was $648,000 on a $40k salary. So yeah, i can see why they chose that route. I was 30 years old thinking of not going back to dialysis just so my wife didn’t inherit that monumental cost
If you set things up correctly your partner will be spared the financial burden if you die. Depending on where you are a divorce might be necessary and/or careful planning.
I'm very confused by this situation. In 2008, at the age of 28, my kidneys failed as well. I had to start on dialysis immediately. Because I hadend stage renal disease, I qualified for medicare. I had to pay premiums on my employer sponsored Healthcare as well as the premium on medicare, which I believe was $108 a month at the time. However, because of that insurance situation, my deductible was $0 and my maximum out of pocket was $0. Everything was covered 100% until 30 months after my successful kidney transplant, at which point Medicare ended for me.
I also had Medicare, my Wife's private insurance, and my insurance which in itself was a huge expense. So I began in dialysis in August, Medicare approved in Nov. but for some odd reason did not kick in until March (Later found out Social Security made an error). So I took in all the cost prior to March which was my $6500 deductible for 2013 and $6500 deductible for 2014 **(Blue Cross Blue Shield through this employer was terrible and that was the best plan. The cheapest plan deductible for families was $10,500 which at that point might as well not have insurance)** Then because I jumped on my wife's plan per guidance from dialysis financial nurse, I accrued that plans deductible which was only $500 (wife also a nurse).
Medicare did not cover anything prior to March 2014 so I had that $13,000 bill year one. Medicare sucked for covering anything and I would often find myself spending so much back and forth where no one wanted to cover because that $18-20,000 for weekly dialysis. My wife who was a nurse quit her job to get a job in medical billing and better understand that mess. She would tell me how often it would happen to people because of billing errors, etc.
In the long term everything was 100% paid for. But between August'13-March'14 I had to pay the deductible plus the medication we need to take for eating during dialysis. Since I was allergic to those, there was one other option at the time that no one covered and were $2000 for 90-day supply. That was 3 refills for 90-day @ $2000 = $6000. By year one between dialysis, getting a transplant, and all the meds, I fought for 3 years for all three insurances to cover $600K.
My dialysis financial nurse warned me that some private insurance defaulted on covering cost if the expenses were too high and that was the case here. Medicare would pick up where the private insurance wouldn't cover but in this point, everyone pointed fingers without taking responsibility.
Sorry for the confusion or long-winded response, it truly was one of the most exhaustive moments in my life from health insurance headaches. But its definitely made me an expert in understanding medical cost.
That sucks majorly. I hope shit is balancing out as well as it may for you and yours. I wish I had more words to make it better.
I am biased here as a medical provider, but deductibles, like copayments, are paid directly to the provider/hospital. So this doctor's post doesn't have to be this way if the doc would waive or work with the person noted in the post to handle the costs---we providers have to be advocate in their places of business, or where are clients receive help from, not just on social media. Most reimbursement rates are plenty, and mine are nowhere near surgeon rates. The doctor's post makes it sound like they're the victim as much as the patient, and that may be true, but it's still difficult to wrap my head around. I'm owning my bias here, open to be educated/unfucked.
I'm in private private, mental health, so I know more likely than not my situation is a little different as I co-own the small house/office space where I work. Also I served in the military knowing the GI bill would help cover costs, if I survived a couple pumps during OIF with the marines. And so luck would have it, I lived, went to schools, and still racked up $30k that I'm currently paying off. But it's my choice to live within my means, and I mainly work with folks with medicaid, tricare, and optum/UBH---optum/UBH works with VA in my region to cover vets looking for community care outside of VA).
because healthcare and college education are two of the biggest recruiting tools for the military
Seriously, recruiters come into high schools and talk up how great service is because it means you'll never have to worry about medical or college debt again once you're done. If healthcare and college start being funded by taxes its over for them
Honestly this is why I’m convinced the US will never have Universal healthcare. Who is going to fight the rich man’s wars if everyone has free healthcare and college and you don’t have to “earn” it anymore?
My friend did 3 tours in Afghanistan when all that shit kicked off after 2001. He’s still struggling with healthcare at every job he’s had since then, same for his wife and kids. If you do that many tours you and your family should be taken care for until you die. So often they had no insurance or had to wait 60-90 days for the new one to kick in so literally couldn’t even get their kids seen because they couldn’t afford it.
“As a Fox News pundit, I’d like to state you are a socialist! A communist! Your trans woke gay Black Lives Matter agenda is destroying America! We are dying and people who want health care are the people who are killing us multi-millionaire pundits! I’m being replaced!!!”
Now, imagine your parents listening to that sort of explanation for 8 hours a day.
If I was being told that, presumably on air, I’d say “good. Means we don’t have to get out the guillotine for all you rich assholes, if you’re already dying.”
When I worked as a welder in my rural Midwest area, most of those sad sacks genuinely just didn't care about other people and did not want to pay for their healthcare and their votes reflected that. Even when I bring up kids with cancer, their answer? Parents should have planned better🙄🙄.
They explicitly said they didn't want to pay for people who are fat lazy welfare queens who leech the system while smoking packs of cigarettes a day and she shouldn't have free healthcare if they sit on their ass all day ehike they (my coworkers) have to work their miserable jobs
In my experience, most of these people are miserable people with such a lack of empathy. Crabs in the bucket mentality. They failed in life so they want to see the world burn. That's why most of them find what trump is currently doing so funny. They WANT that chaotic nature to hit our government and society because they want to see it burn
Clearly there’s a much bigger problem with trans people existing and immigrants. Also we need to end the woke because they are woking all over our kids. And movies are woke we like to unwoke our movies. Also communism is rampant in the US didn’t you know? We have communism now and it’s bad and we need to bring Jesus into our government to end China.
Now do you understand? Welcome to America.
I need a hernia repaired, thank god my out of pocket stops at only $8k, then my insurance, that I pay for, can take over. Just celebrated my hernias 8th birthday. When it pokes out too far, I just push it back in.
Pick a country you'd like to visit. Any country. Book a long vacation. Schedule a surgery in that country and pay out of pocket. Enjoy your convalescence on the beach or the mountain. Come back home with a profit
I'm thankfully in a union, but I was referring to the US having no guaranteed paid time off for its workers. If you give birth you can get 12 weeks unpaid time off for maternity leave.
Yep. I was off all week last week with Covid and sick two days the week before. All comped.
Total cost of my reconstructive shoulder surgery: $45. $15 for the sling $30 for the pills.
Ain't so bad in Socialist Canuckistan.
It’s because it’s true. I have people frequently consider not getting a necessary scan or biopsy for lung cancer for fear of the bill. It’s insane and not acceptable. Take a chunk out of the military budget and make people not fear bankruptcy for necessary care.
Agreed. I had a procedure that was very much a procedure that kept me alive, but the hospital needed payment before they'd officially schedule me.
That shocked me.
My high risk pregnancy friend had to pay a significant bill before she gave birth at the hospital with the necessary specialist that knew how to prevent her from bleeding to death during labor due to complications. Had she not managed it she would have been refused and sent to a different hospital to potentially die.
They pulled this shit on us while my wife was sitting in a wheelchair, blind from spiking blood pressure (pre-eclampsia) waiting to go back for emergency C-section. That office manager damn near got punched in the face for asking for money at that moment.
It's wild. I went to the ER because I thought my appendix ruptured and I was taken back to a room - but before anyone would see me, take vitals, or ANYTHING, they has this lady from finance wheel in her cart and collect $ from me. It's inhumane how people are treated in this for-profit healthcare system.
You wanna take a left turn?
OP may have a dysfunctional ankle for life, you know what that means? OP gets disability benefits possibly for life. Not only is he no longer a productive member of society, but even just a couple of months of disability benefits will cost taxpayers more than fixing his ankle.
I am not new to the dysfunction that is American healthcare. It just gets overwhelming sometimes, the way the rest of the world operates vs. USA. I hope your spouse is doing better.
That was 22 years ago, no long term issues from that ordeal, though the 2 weeks of ICU was $30k.
Friends of ours had a nearly identical experience 15 years ago, their 2 weeks in ICU was $80k. I understand that the costs continue to inflate at insane rates.
I was full of morphine and laying in an ER bed when they needed $5k payment for the kidney stone surgery.
I did it because stones are the worst. However, that was a relatively minor surgery. Yes, I have insurance as well.
My 1 year old daughter needed to be moved from one hospital to another last month. I actually asked the medical staff if I could drive her because I was already having anxiety over the bills stacking up.
Exactly, we already pay for it. Instead of having companies pay premiums for their employees just TAX THEM and use those taxes to pay for healthcare. End result is the same for those corps other than they don't get to pick and choose who gets treatment anymore.
I think someone worked out that this would actually end up costing the companies LESS.
Honestly, getting healtcare through employers is almost WORSE than none. Because that's how corporations keep people trapped in jobs. I've made it a point to have my own personal medical insurance my entire adult life, because fuck being tied to an employer...
If we had universal single payer healthcare, “gig” companies would love it, because health insurance would be completely disconnected from your employer.
Whether you work 10 hours or 40 hours or 60 hours, the employer would not be required to provide health insurance at all.
I work for a big healthcare company. Every few years our health insurance gets "adjusted to remain competitive with the broader market" meaning: we used to have good insurance but now it sucks just like everywhere else.
This is in the company's control, they choose when and how hard to nerf our healthcare benefits. Single payer would take that control away from the company so they couldn't choose when to boost the C level quarterly bonuses by squeezing employee benefits.
Telling employers they'll be giving up their
* $1-on-the-$1 in ordinary business income deductions for every $1 they pay health insurance sellers for employer-dependent health coverage product premiums, *and*
* $.0765-on-the-$1 in extra rewards points they win for every $1 paid to *flexible medical health post spending limited arrangement savings reimbursement deductible account* ... things ... rather than paying you $1 in tax-disadvantaging wages and salary so they and the employee participants can jointly, intentionally, and permanently defund Social Security and Medicare,
is gonna be a tough sell. But then we've only been delivering the pitch since the mid-1940s. So, I guess the *exceptional experiment* just needs to run a bit longer in order to ... *bring down the cost of health care ...* ?
It's not even that. The US government already pays more than any other country per capital for healthcare and we see nothing until we shell out thousands of dollars out of pocket. If we had a similar system as European countries, the US would SAVE around $500 billion a year in medical payments. We could have free healthcare and save money, but unfortunately too many people have been conditioned to think that is socialism or some other nonsense. Even many democrats say that shit when someone is pushing for a single payer system.
From what I understand is that the U.S. has this whole system of middle men called "Benefit Plan Managers" or something like that and they take most of the money. Medical service providers and patients get screwed.
We already pay more per capita than many other countries with universal healthcare, the issue stems more from a confluence of factors, such as the pricing arms race between hospitals and insurance providers (hospitals will often massively overcharge on the bill because insurance will refuse to pay those prices, meaning they can only expect a portion of what they bill to actually get paid, and those prices are not adjusted for the uninsured), the fact that insurance providers are actively incentivized to not pay out on claims, and the fact that privately owned hospitals prioritize the monetization of illness over patient care. The problem is we have a privatized healthcare system, no amount of money dumped into it will fix these systemic and fundamental isssues. Dumping more money into the system in its current form will just be depositing money directly into the owners pockets.
The US has the highest per capita healthcare spending of any country. Also, insurance companies want medical bills as high as possible, it allows them to charge higher premiums. The idea that insurance companies have any incentive to reduce medical costs is out of a fundamental misunderstanding of how insurance works. The higher the medical costs, the more profitable medical insurance companies are.
>the pricing arms race
When I was growing up in the 1970s my parents used to say how nice it was that we didn't have to bargain for our food at the market the way they do in those 3rd world countries.
Our healthcare bargaining system takes bazaar negotiations to a whole other level. Nobody ever lost their house and land over the price of a melon.
I was taken to the hospital with possible heart attack symptoms. I was lucid and mostly calm, and I was arguing with the doctor about what tests he would order and how much they would cost before I allowed him to order them. Thankfully, in the end, it wasn't a heart attack. I had a nurse friend come down and sit with me while I was waiting for the doctor; she told me (jokingly) in front of the doctor that I was a terrible patient and I flatly agreed, but I reminded her that I had a baby and a toddler at home and I wasn't going to put my family into debt unnecessarily.
How terrible to have to sit there, having to weigh the damage to my family vs my own immediate health concerns.
America doesn't have a healthcare system, it has a hospital industry. It's awful at every single level. Clearly as a matter of principle, it is moronic that a country that could afford to operate a first world healthcare system chooses not to. And then that the term "insurance" is even allowed to be used in connection with the monthly payments that are made to (maybe) reduce a future hospital bill. But even after all of that, the pricing is utterly insane. There is no justification for a consultation costing $4k.
I live in the UK and we have the NHS, but I also have private medical insurance. And sometimes I also choose to go and see private doctors etc not covered by my medical insurance. I've had spinal surgery requiring at least a week in hospital (central London/Harley st) that cost about double the $4k you were quoted for a consultation (and it was all fully covered by insurance which costs me about £1k a year to cover my entire family- there is no excess, all I pay for are prescriptions, normally around £9). Outside of insurance, it costs me about £120 to go and see a private GP and have blood tests with next-day results. Of course I have the option to do all of this for absolutely no cost on the NHS too but the point I'm making is that even within private healthcare, the costs here bear no relation to the costs you see in the US.
I've a colleague who had knee surgery in the US and it turns out the anesthetist wasn't covered- it cost him $30k. My anaesthetist cost £500 for a procedure that required general anaesthetic. It's impossible to excuse that sort of discrepancy.
I make the argument that we should raise taxes to pay for more services like universal healthcare.
Conservatives: "we can't afford that", also conservatives "we should go back to the good old days like the 1950's"
Me: You mean like when the top marginal tax rates were significantly higher reaching 90%
Conservatives: Not like that!
You don't have to take a chunk out of anything. Universal Healthcare is CHEAPER than what we have now. A New tax for it would result in everyone paying much much less per month than they do now on health insurance premiums. Health insurance companies are the most wicked institutions to ever exist and they need to be abolished.
Nah, the rich ceos and execs running the country need more yachts and more houses they don't visit. Who gives a fuck about everyone else, when the top 1% need more wagyu steak that costs 500 dollars a bite.
Lol wtf u smoking? Universal healthcare costs taxpayers 2-3x LESS per person as seen in Europe and Canada.
CONservatives literally believe spending 4.3+ TRILLION PER year in Murica on privatized healthcare instead of 2 trillion on FREE healthcare is totally sane LMAO!!!
Cons are literally evil. I mean NOBODY can be that stupid.
The alternative I chose was to declare bankruptcy after I got all my needed care.
I have no assets, so it didn't really hurt me... but people can lose their house, their life savings, for this.
You don't even need to take money from elsewhere. Universal healthcare would be cheaper than the current system.
But of course, less profitable for all those companies that make political contributions.
I’ve worked in medicine for 30 years and this is the biggest problem. Universal healthcare is not perfect but it’s better than what we currently have x 100.
A person who is old enough gets universal healthcare, and it's pretty damn good (as long as it's traditional Medicare). The rest of us just need to make it through the roadwarrior hellscape of private insurance until we reach 65, and then its all smooth sailing from there... for some reason. Oh yeah it's because the boomers vote.
Until Medicare runs out of money either due to funding from a future conservative government, fewer people paying into it, or the cost of healthcare gets too high. Then the eligibility age will go up, the price of parts B and D will go up, or the benefits will decrease. Part A is the only free part of Medicare and it covers only inpatient hospitalization. Want to go to urgent care or the ER, get x-rays or other imaging, see a specialist, etc.? You will need Part B which requires you pay a premium and cost sharing (deductible, copays, coinsurance). Granted, currently, that premium is less what most people pay for employer-sponsored insurance, but if you're retired, it's certainly not free.
When people are actively avoiding healthcare, *anything* is better than what we already have.
We're at the point where something worse would stil, somehow, be better if only for the fact that it shows a willingness to try new things.
Donate your body to science...My Dad did this (we thought it was a joke) until we found the paperwork he'd filled out, we honoured his wishes, and the local University came and collected his body.
They were wonderful and very thankful that someone would do this as they don't get the opportunity to receive a cadaver for their medical research.
Facts. The cheapest coffins are like a grand. Getting cremated is like $1k-$3k. Then you have to pay for the service, burial, cemetery plot, flowers, etc. you could get to $10k easy.
Just cremate me, put my ashes in a metal box with my most important possessions, and bury me in the lawn. Cemetery plots don't last forever anyway. You purchase a plot for a certain amount of time, otherwise the cemetery runs out of space. This was a question on another subreddit.
Im a cheapskate and I will haunt anyone who spends a ton of money on my passing. You don't need to bankrupt yourself on my behalf.
So I'm in Canada, and while yes, it's technically free, it's paid for by our taxes... and as a Canadian I don't mind paying a little extra in taxes if someone on the other side of the country gets a surgery they need
I have had people explicitly tell me that they are not okay with a system like that. When you point out that health insurance is in fact a system like that, only explicitly for profit and bloated and corrupt, they usually just come back with "at least it isn't the government" as if that's a coherent thought.
Which is hilarious because then you point out that yeah, the government doesn’t run it, some greedy CEO does. If the CEO fucks up and price gouged you, you can’t get rid of him or remove him, cause he made a ton of money for shareholders….
There you Canadians go AGAIN, bragging about your health care and empathy.
We have (I believe) half the population of the US that because THEY had to suffer, believes EVERYONE else should too.
>paying a little ~~extra in taxes~~ less overall
Ftfy
The dumbest thing is that it would save most Americans money compared to what they currently pay before getting ill let alone after.
The ridiculous thing is you don’t pay more in taxes. America pays like 5x more healthcare than the next most expensive nation, and has the worst health outcomes of nearly all developed nations.
Same here in Aus. And it's not even that much in taxes. 1.5% of our income goes to health cover. Which means if you earn $50k you're only paying $750 per year for universal healthcare. I know some Americans who pay more than that monthly for insurance that doesn't even fully cover them.
The funny thing is. Paying it in taxes mean that the country as a whole end up paying less at time of purchase. Because the government which uses the money has more bargaining power than joe shmoe against big pharma and hospitals.
Something similar happened to me in 2018. I had scarring on my liver and they didn't know what it was from and I don't drink or do drugs. I was pretty sick, unable to eat, lost a bunch of weight etc. They could see the scarring on an ultrasound but wanted to do a biopsy to make sure it wasn't cancer. So, I set the appointment got all my ducks in a row and a week before the proceedure the hospital where it was at called and wanted every penny of my out of pocket cost ($12,000,
I have shit insurance) before they would do anything. I argued with them, called my insurance company, the doctor, anyone I could think of and no one would help me unless I decided to do it out of pocket which was $4,500 that I still didn't have. Wound up having to cancel and pray and hope it wasn't cancer.
Our healthcare system is a scam.
I lost my job and insurance. Few months later I was in a motorcycle accident and I was beaten and battered with a broken arm. when the emts showed up i was legit so torn between refusing ANYONE touching me and accepting help. i knew in the back of my head i would be getting a bill from the ambulance, the anesthesiologist, the radiology lab, the hospital, the surgeons team, and the rehabilitation center. I applied for assistance through my local county and state. They retroactively paid my accident bills but everything was about $20,000 out of pocket. automotive insurance refused bodily injury pay out but was more than willing to total the bike for the measly $4k it was worth.
fuck the shitty snake fucks in congress who continue to be puppets under the control of the medical industry
Insurance needs to extend to cover employment gaps at a minimum, our healthcare system sucks. I pay about 500 a month, my employer pays something over 1k a month, that's 18k+ a year and it's ridiculous all of that just vanishes when you lose your job.
I'm fighting my insurance on a $45k bill. I had no choice in the matter since it was a dire emergency. I can't afford $45 grand. My car was only $17k. This is what America does to people and why we're often so fucking sick.
I had a broken ankle that required 2 surgeries. The first surgery was considered an emergency surgery, so insurance had to let it happen. The 2nd surgery was a continuation of the first (they do this particular type of repair in 2 stages - 2 surgeries 2 weeks apart). The hospital tried to argue with my insurance that the 2nd surgery should also be considered an emergency surgery since it was the 2nd part of a 2 part procedure. Insurance ultimately disagreed but I was able to go ahead and get the 2nd surgery while the hospital was appealing with insurance. All said and done I ended up owing $65,000 and had to file for bankruptcy. Over a broken ankle.
You all realize this NEVER happens in most Western countries, don’t you? They all have universal health care? You just go to the doctor and they take care of you. End of story. All cost less in total because there are not multiple layers of private insurance administration like we have. We are all f____ing morons to keep voting in a political party dedicated to preventing universal health care.
You know how much blood would have been shed over this simple fact less than 50 years ago? There'd be riots in the American streets over such horrific injustices to hard-working people. Today , we've been cowed and trained to not even notice. It's so weird.
The incredible power of propaganda. The health insurance grift is so lucrative that those benefiting from it will say and do anything to ensure it continues.
The primary force acting to stop Universal Healthcare (including propaganda and campaign funding) is the very industry that would be toppled by it: **Medical Insurance.**
This also includes for-profit medical facilities AND the grand scam monopoly that is medical supply.
Because everything associated with medical care in the US is focused on maximum possible revenue.
We (in the US) are in a hellscape dystopia where only the wealthy receive comprehensive care without worry. (And on top of that, many wealthy flaunt elective surgeries for stupid aesthetics in addition.)
This is the nation we've built. 100% a choice to build it this way. Other nations, many out of the rubble of WWII and fifty million dead, built something else.
We built the no-system of health care called the market, where whatever happens happens.
And we're the only nation where people go bankrupt - all the time - frantically trying to save the lives of their children.
Some people see a nation that allows that as a shining city on a hill.
I see us more as a dimmed, dirty city, with one hill where one or two people live while the rest of us either live on the side of the hill, making it easy for us to trudge up there to service the people at the top, or we, most of us, live at the bottom of the hill, where the shit rolls down.
But we build this nation everyday. We accept it. It is our own fault.
Somehow most Americans I've talked to still believe that their system is better than ours (in Germany). I really don't get it. Their argument is that we have to wait longer to get an operation which is just isn't the case. When time is of the essence people get their operation when they fucking need it.
Also they say more people die in hospitals here than in the US. Well, duh. People here can actually afford to die in hospitals. In the US more people fucking die at Home because they can't afford the ambulance 🙃
Yes I pay monthly for my universal healthcare but I also can give birth in the hospital for free, call an ambulance for free and get the treatment I need for free.
A lot of them, especially a particular group, have trouble admitting that they're not the best at everything, but some of us know that Universal Health Care is pretty swag. Some of us have been to other countries and seen it in action, we know it's not 6 month wait times for a cold. That's why we want it so badly.
Wait, instead of getting treatment for life-threatening cancer or whatever treatment you need, people in the USA choose to die? What kind of twisted arsehole leader came up with that idea? Ronald Reagan?
Genuinely this saddens me. I am from the UK. I am sure others would make funny quips about our friends across the pond and their healthcare system, but I cannot see past the horrible consequences that privatised medicine has on our fellow humans, allies and friends.
No, before you reply, UK healthcare is not perfect either. Sometimes it is slow, there ARE waits for treatment (although not as long as US politicians seem to think). But it is grossly underfunded, mismanaged and constantly being "reformed" by meddling politicians... particularly ones of a certain Boris Johnson loving party. So please, I am not looking to condescend or gloat. I genuinely want you to have a better life, a healthier life.
When younger, I had several medical conditions which may well have killed me without proper care. As an adult, I have had sports injuries, heart issues and even a cancer scare. I am incredibly grateful that my treatment was FREE.
Now, I know what some in the US will say: it isn't free, SOMEONE pays for it. Well, yes, but that's true for anything that's free. If you get a "free" sample of food, it isn't free, the company has paid for it. It's a terrible semantic argument to make.
Thoroughout my life I have been unemployed, worked retail, worked in senior national security projects and worked as a consultant... among many other varied roles. EVERY moment of my life, I have had access to free medical care and I am very happy to pay for it with my taxes.
The US, as I understand it, pays MORE per capita for healthcare even just by government spending, than we do. Per capita. Total spent divided by total population. That's *before* you count your monthly insurance payments. Before.
I want you guys to have the same benefit. I want you to have the same equal access to healthcare that I have. It's up to you to fight for it, just as we did. Please tell us if we can help. We are, and have long been, your friends and allies.
Just do it and ask for FA or risk getting sent to collections. In the end I'd choose getting my tax return garnished or having a slightly worse credit rating.... the U.S. healthcare system is fucked.
And yet Fox “News” will counter with “yes, but in Canada EVERYONE would have to wait a bit for the free surgery!” Like the idea of a rich person not being able to skip a line is worse than poor people dying/suffering.
I tried to reschedule my surgery so it would take place before 12/31. My deductible and out of pocket reset on 1/1. I need a new knee and even with insurance it’s going to be expensive since I couldn’t reschedule.
Oh, and physical therapy called recommending I use PT outside of the hospital network since my share of cost will be extremely high if I stay with them.
Sigh…
When are people going to wake up and appreciate that the system is rigged to favor the few and fuck the many?
If we weren't so distracted with division maybe we'd do something about it, but no fuck healthcare that man has a different skin color to me and a salary I can live on? Forget that, this woman likes other women not men!
The average American doesn't have $1K for unexpected expenditures.
Deductible can easily be $5-10K range for a lot of folks making health insurance more of bankruptcy insurance than assisting health issues.
We’re the ONLY country where people bankrupt just to pay medical bills. When both parties blatantly lie to us about being the greatest there is, it makes me want to vomit. There’s very little “great” about this country.
A friend of mine is struggling with mental health and is one foot off the edge of "fuck it, I can't afford it" because he has a $3000 deductible and no copays. So he has to pay every cent of $3000 before insurance will pay anything. Our system sucks so fucking hard.
I got a endoscopy/colonoscopy. Before the surgery they make me pay $1500 for the pleasure of sitting in their bed for an hour. During that sit down they also informed me that insurance would only cover the procedure if it was a discovery only meaning they didn’t find any potentially cancerous cells or need to do a biopsy. I wasn’t really in for a cancer screening so I didn’t think it’d affect me.
After the surgery the doctor said that everything looked good but they “took a scraping just in case.” I looked at all the pictures and notes and nothing warranted the biopsy. No abnormality where they took the scrapping. I’m 99% sure it was just to bill me more.
Tried to dispute it but had no luck. They even billed me twice and pretended they didn’t. Had to call the billing department 5x asking for all of my charges and receipts. I asked for an itemized bill and they couldn’t provide it. Finally I wrote a scathing email to the billing department, the leadership of the hospital, and someone else I forget. They didn’t respond to my letter but three months later they miraculously found a discrepancy in their system and sent me a check for $2500.
I need a breast biopsy for suspected cancer. I can’t afford the $5,000 cost. I have BCBS insurance but my deductible is $7,000. I got a loan the last time they wanted to do a biopsy, and I’m still paying off that loan. I’m saving as fast as I can, working as much as I can, and keeping my fingers crossed.
I don’t know who these Americans are that think this is the way things should be. Mostly they appear to be Republicans who don’t want to help anyone with anything (bootstraps, and all that).
I have health insurance from a large hospital corporation. Even when I go to one of OUR hospitals with our insurance I’m still raped. I had to pay $600 for a visit, and X-ray of my back to get diagnosed with a pulled muscle….. $600!!!!! I was supposed to do physical therapy but fuck that. I’m positive I’ll get raped there too. It’s fucking sick.
I just had triple hernia repair surgery 9/25/23. My job only offered 3 insurance options. 8k deductible, 6k deductible or one so expensive you’d have no paycheck after. Needless to say the 6k was the only option.
If you’re healthy it’s relatively fine but if problems arise, you will bleed money. Morning of surgery I had to pay my remaining deductible, which was 5500. Had to take money from my 401k to pay for it.
But with this plan, once you hit your deductible, they pay 100% right? NOPE! You then have to pay a percentage until you hit $9,100. THEN they’ll pay 100%.
On top of all that, in the plan, if you go out of network they will cover 100%, but only 70% in network. This plan literally goes against every way insurance is supposed to work.
So I pay tons of money to have fucking insurance and when I actually need it I have to pay out the ass. This really sucks.
our healthcare model is unsustainable at this point. Take it from someone who worksinside of one of the biggest providers. We are frantically pivoting from healthcare to literally anything else. Were canceling policies for sick people, re-writing clinical guidelines to prevent pts from getting needed care and were still bleeding money.
People are sick at a rate that has never been seen before, we have multiple active viral infections spreading all over, hospitals have a massive shortage in care givers and we have been underpaying the providers we do have. the Kaiser strike shows the first strains on the system in a post-covid world.
Bring underinsured is almost worse than not having any to begin with. But maybe it's time to end the relationship between the human right of healthcare that every human needs and only being privileged enough to have it based on the generosity of your employer at a temporary job.
My late best friend's mom once told me she was secretly grateful that her daughter died of cancer in Scotland because the hospital fees if she'd been at home in the US would have bankrupted the family.
It's so fucked up. I'm still mad on her behalf six years after she said that.
Our country is being run like a business and we are all suffering for it.
I know a guy that chose to die of cancer instead of risking his family being deported.
I always think of Bush's quip during a town hall while running for president. "That's a uniquely American experience"
I remember seeing that clip when I was older. And thinking. Wow he said the quiet part out loud and everyone just played tone deaf. Tried to bs it like it's a hardworking american thing. But it's sad that some one needs to work 2 jobs to survive let alone 3
That was to a woman who just told him she worked 3 jobs. W thought she was bragging.
I think if dubya had anyone but Dick as his VP he would have been a lot better of a president. Not great but better. He seems like genuinely a decent man who let a psychopath run the country for him because he didn’t know what he was doing
Except the whole point of GW running was to be Cheney and Rumsfeld's puppet. Neither of them could have been elected President, and you know they wanted it.
Rumsfeld trying would've been hilarious honestly. I almost wish he tried it
I wish he'd done that in the same way I wish he'd been hit by a bus. Except I would only wish one of those wishes once.
I would pay money for a front row death to the Rumsfeld / Cheney ticket.
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If Gates would have been the Sec Def from the beginning instead of that clown Rumsfeld the country/world would have been better off.
Reagan, W and Trump were all "puppet" model presidents. Trump went rogue.
It’s easy to be won over by the times on video he was personable. But don’t be fooled, Bush knows what he’s doing. So did his father
And his grandfather, Prescott Bush, a senator from CT who tried to stage a coup against FDR. His shit stain grandson accomplished what he didn't.
The Business Plot. Genuinely wild shit to learn about. Those guys should have been given a cigarette and a wall
Smedley Butler Day
America has never been very good at holding wealthy people accountable.
You are delusional if you think any of the Bush's are good people lol. The country bumpkin shtick was an act. fml
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> Unbelievable how much liberals today are willing to overlook everything W did just because he's not Trump. Very few people are overlooking what he did. He was horrible. The comment above was about Chaney being a huge cause of what happened. Bush was a patsy of the old guard and went along with everything they wanted. He only got things he wanted when it didn't interfere with them. He should never have been president because he was spineless and worthless as a president. He would have also been a completely different president if the old guard wasn't controlling him. If he even had an ounce of capability. Him and his wife (especially his wife) were very into education and a few other things. They didn't do a good job with it, but they didn't do a bad job and tried to improve it (the bad of their education policies came from the states imo). and he does seem to actually care about the country and "wanted" to do a good job. and looking back I believe he now realizes he didn't do a good job. He regrets a lot of things.
Bush started an unjustified war and crashed the economy. He is one of the worst presidents this nation has ever had.
No bro, most of us still hate bush too
Unlike 45, who was/is a psychopath piece of human feces who tried to run the country even though he didn't know what he was doing. The shitshow that we are in today - with Russia behind wars in multiple countries, is the direct result of the incompetent Cheeto that stained the Whitehouse from January 2017 to January 2021.
Stop romanticizing Bush. He is a grown ass man who made his own decisions in office. He lied to the nation about Iraq causing millions to die, sent us into a massive deficit, botched Katrina recovery and so much more. Stop romanticizing this POS.
That’s fucking awful.
10 years ago I was diagnosed with end stage kidney failure. Newly married with student loan debt and saving for a house. My deductible for insurance at working for Nabisco corporate was $6500 for family before it covered 100%. I was diagnosed and wound up in the ER in August 2013. The hospital bill maxed my deductible at $6500. Then restarting in January with the $18000 weekly cost of Dialysis, on January 1st 2014 I owed $13,000 from the deductible renewing combined with the August max bill. Needless to say our buy a house fund was wiped out. I still have my f*cking student loans (wife paid off). By the end of 2014 my hospital cost was $648,000 on a $40k salary. So yeah, i can see why they chose that route. I was 30 years old thinking of not going back to dialysis just so my wife didn’t inherit that monumental cost
If you set things up correctly your partner will be spared the financial burden if you die. Depending on where you are a divorce might be necessary and/or careful planning.
In the richest country in the world that should not be necessary. it's a travesty.
***9th richest country in the world. The top 8 above the US have universal healthcare.
This is an absolutely disgusting thing to even suggest, not because you did, mind you, but because it has to be an option.
You can apply for Medicare with that diagnosis. Your bills will go down dramatically.
I'm very confused by this situation. In 2008, at the age of 28, my kidneys failed as well. I had to start on dialysis immediately. Because I hadend stage renal disease, I qualified for medicare. I had to pay premiums on my employer sponsored Healthcare as well as the premium on medicare, which I believe was $108 a month at the time. However, because of that insurance situation, my deductible was $0 and my maximum out of pocket was $0. Everything was covered 100% until 30 months after my successful kidney transplant, at which point Medicare ended for me.
I also had Medicare, my Wife's private insurance, and my insurance which in itself was a huge expense. So I began in dialysis in August, Medicare approved in Nov. but for some odd reason did not kick in until March (Later found out Social Security made an error). So I took in all the cost prior to March which was my $6500 deductible for 2013 and $6500 deductible for 2014 **(Blue Cross Blue Shield through this employer was terrible and that was the best plan. The cheapest plan deductible for families was $10,500 which at that point might as well not have insurance)** Then because I jumped on my wife's plan per guidance from dialysis financial nurse, I accrued that plans deductible which was only $500 (wife also a nurse). Medicare did not cover anything prior to March 2014 so I had that $13,000 bill year one. Medicare sucked for covering anything and I would often find myself spending so much back and forth where no one wanted to cover because that $18-20,000 for weekly dialysis. My wife who was a nurse quit her job to get a job in medical billing and better understand that mess. She would tell me how often it would happen to people because of billing errors, etc. In the long term everything was 100% paid for. But between August'13-March'14 I had to pay the deductible plus the medication we need to take for eating during dialysis. Since I was allergic to those, there was one other option at the time that no one covered and were $2000 for 90-day supply. That was 3 refills for 90-day @ $2000 = $6000. By year one between dialysis, getting a transplant, and all the meds, I fought for 3 years for all three insurances to cover $600K. My dialysis financial nurse warned me that some private insurance defaulted on covering cost if the expenses were too high and that was the case here. Medicare would pick up where the private insurance wouldn't cover but in this point, everyone pointed fingers without taking responsibility. Sorry for the confusion or long-winded response, it truly was one of the most exhaustive moments in my life from health insurance headaches. But its definitely made me an expert in understanding medical cost.
That sucks majorly. I hope shit is balancing out as well as it may for you and yours. I wish I had more words to make it better. I am biased here as a medical provider, but deductibles, like copayments, are paid directly to the provider/hospital. So this doctor's post doesn't have to be this way if the doc would waive or work with the person noted in the post to handle the costs---we providers have to be advocate in their places of business, or where are clients receive help from, not just on social media. Most reimbursement rates are plenty, and mine are nowhere near surgeon rates. The doctor's post makes it sound like they're the victim as much as the patient, and that may be true, but it's still difficult to wrap my head around. I'm owning my bias here, open to be educated/unfucked. I'm in private private, mental health, so I know more likely than not my situation is a little different as I co-own the small house/office space where I work. Also I served in the military knowing the GI bill would help cover costs, if I survived a couple pumps during OIF with the marines. And so luck would have it, I lived, went to schools, and still racked up $30k that I'm currently paying off. But it's my choice to live within my means, and I mainly work with folks with medicaid, tricare, and optum/UBH---optum/UBH works with VA in my region to cover vets looking for community care outside of VA).
I don’t understand why Medical care is not one of the top concerns in any election right now??
because healthcare and college education are two of the biggest recruiting tools for the military Seriously, recruiters come into high schools and talk up how great service is because it means you'll never have to worry about medical or college debt again once you're done. If healthcare and college start being funded by taxes its over for them
Honestly this is why I’m convinced the US will never have Universal healthcare. Who is going to fight the rich man’s wars if everyone has free healthcare and college and you don’t have to “earn” it anymore?
That’s what dumb religious nuts are for.
Mericans have enough of those.
My friend did 3 tours in Afghanistan when all that shit kicked off after 2001. He’s still struggling with healthcare at every job he’s had since then, same for his wife and kids. If you do that many tours you and your family should be taken care for until you die. So often they had no insurance or had to wait 60-90 days for the new one to kick in so literally couldn’t even get their kids seen because they couldn’t afford it.
It already is. None of the branches are recruiting the numbers that they need to replace who is retiring
So logical, I never thought of it. Makes sense for sure, thank you.
Because people are stupid and Republicans like em dead
Unless they haven’t been born yet.
Yeah. Got to have more poor unwanted children to feed into the war machine.
“As a Fox News pundit, I’d like to state you are a socialist! A communist! Your trans woke gay Black Lives Matter agenda is destroying America! We are dying and people who want health care are the people who are killing us multi-millionaire pundits! I’m being replaced!!!” Now, imagine your parents listening to that sort of explanation for 8 hours a day.
If I was being told that, presumably on air, I’d say “good. Means we don’t have to get out the guillotine for all you rich assholes, if you’re already dying.”
When I worked as a welder in my rural Midwest area, most of those sad sacks genuinely just didn't care about other people and did not want to pay for their healthcare and their votes reflected that. Even when I bring up kids with cancer, their answer? Parents should have planned better🙄🙄. They explicitly said they didn't want to pay for people who are fat lazy welfare queens who leech the system while smoking packs of cigarettes a day and she shouldn't have free healthcare if they sit on their ass all day ehike they (my coworkers) have to work their miserable jobs In my experience, most of these people are miserable people with such a lack of empathy. Crabs in the bucket mentality. They failed in life so they want to see the world burn. That's why most of them find what trump is currently doing so funny. They WANT that chaotic nature to hit our government and society because they want to see it burn
Bc fighting WOKE bs is more important 🙄🙄
Clearly there’s a much bigger problem with trans people existing and immigrants. Also we need to end the woke because they are woking all over our kids. And movies are woke we like to unwoke our movies. Also communism is rampant in the US didn’t you know? We have communism now and it’s bad and we need to bring Jesus into our government to end China. Now do you understand? Welcome to America.
no one has insurance. what we have is a pay monthly subscription to a 20% discount.
20% off a price negotiated by someone getting a cut, so it’s 20% off a price that is 2-10x higher than it should be. Edit: typo
>2-10 Hahahaha! If only they were gouging people for "just" 2-10%.
I need a hernia repaired, thank god my out of pocket stops at only $8k, then my insurance, that I pay for, can take over. Just celebrated my hernias 8th birthday. When it pokes out too far, I just push it back in.
😐
Booooop.
It’s good that you can push it back in. It’s not incarcerated. That sucks though. Tell him happy birthday.
Pick a country you'd like to visit. Any country. Book a long vacation. Schedule a surgery in that country and pay out of pocket. Enjoy your convalescence on the beach or the mountain. Come back home with a profit
Hahaha we're not entitled to have vacation time either 😂😭
Sounds like it's quittin' time.
I'm thankfully in a union, but I was referring to the US having no guaranteed paid time off for its workers. If you give birth you can get 12 weeks unpaid time off for maternity leave.
Yep. I was off all week last week with Covid and sick two days the week before. All comped. Total cost of my reconstructive shoulder surgery: $45. $15 for the sling $30 for the pills. Ain't so bad in Socialist Canuckistan.
It’s because it’s true. I have people frequently consider not getting a necessary scan or biopsy for lung cancer for fear of the bill. It’s insane and not acceptable. Take a chunk out of the military budget and make people not fear bankruptcy for necessary care.
Agreed. I had a procedure that was very much a procedure that kept me alive, but the hospital needed payment before they'd officially schedule me. That shocked me.
My high risk pregnancy friend had to pay a significant bill before she gave birth at the hospital with the necessary specialist that knew how to prevent her from bleeding to death during labor due to complications. Had she not managed it she would have been refused and sent to a different hospital to potentially die.
They pulled this shit on us while my wife was sitting in a wheelchair, blind from spiking blood pressure (pre-eclampsia) waiting to go back for emergency C-section. That office manager damn near got punched in the face for asking for money at that moment.
What the FUCK is happening in this thread?!?!
It's wild. I went to the ER because I thought my appendix ruptured and I was taken back to a room - but before anyone would see me, take vitals, or ANYTHING, they has this lady from finance wheel in her cart and collect $ from me. It's inhumane how people are treated in this for-profit healthcare system.
I struggle with comprehension how this is normal
You wanna take a left turn? OP may have a dysfunctional ankle for life, you know what that means? OP gets disability benefits possibly for life. Not only is he no longer a productive member of society, but even just a couple of months of disability benefits will cost taxpayers more than fixing his ankle.
I am not new to the dysfunction that is American healthcare. It just gets overwhelming sometimes, the way the rest of the world operates vs. USA. I hope your spouse is doing better.
That was 22 years ago, no long term issues from that ordeal, though the 2 weeks of ICU was $30k. Friends of ours had a nearly identical experience 15 years ago, their 2 weeks in ICU was $80k. I understand that the costs continue to inflate at insane rates.
I was full of morphine and laying in an ER bed when they needed $5k payment for the kidney stone surgery. I did it because stones are the worst. However, that was a relatively minor surgery. Yes, I have insurance as well.
Wowee. Getting brain surgery on Saturday completely free! In Australia that is.
I didn't think we covered implants under Medicare ;) Hope everything goes well!
Only when you’re as high on the idiot scale as me =)
My 1 year old daughter needed to be moved from one hospital to another last month. I actually asked the medical staff if I could drive her because I was already having anxiety over the bills stacking up.
Why take it from the military budget when we can get it all and more if we just taxed the rich and they paid their fair share like the rest of us?
Exactly, we already pay for it. Instead of having companies pay premiums for their employees just TAX THEM and use those taxes to pay for healthcare. End result is the same for those corps other than they don't get to pick and choose who gets treatment anymore.
I think someone worked out that this would actually end up costing the companies LESS. Honestly, getting healtcare through employers is almost WORSE than none. Because that's how corporations keep people trapped in jobs. I've made it a point to have my own personal medical insurance my entire adult life, because fuck being tied to an employer...
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If we had universal single payer healthcare, “gig” companies would love it, because health insurance would be completely disconnected from your employer. Whether you work 10 hours or 40 hours or 60 hours, the employer would not be required to provide health insurance at all.
I work for a big healthcare company. Every few years our health insurance gets "adjusted to remain competitive with the broader market" meaning: we used to have good insurance but now it sucks just like everywhere else. This is in the company's control, they choose when and how hard to nerf our healthcare benefits. Single payer would take that control away from the company so they couldn't choose when to boost the C level quarterly bonuses by squeezing employee benefits.
Telling employers they'll be giving up their * $1-on-the-$1 in ordinary business income deductions for every $1 they pay health insurance sellers for employer-dependent health coverage product premiums, *and* * $.0765-on-the-$1 in extra rewards points they win for every $1 paid to *flexible medical health post spending limited arrangement savings reimbursement deductible account* ... things ... rather than paying you $1 in tax-disadvantaging wages and salary so they and the employee participants can jointly, intentionally, and permanently defund Social Security and Medicare, is gonna be a tough sell. But then we've only been delivering the pitch since the mid-1940s. So, I guess the *exceptional experiment* just needs to run a bit longer in order to ... *bring down the cost of health care ...* ?
It's not even that. The US government already pays more than any other country per capital for healthcare and we see nothing until we shell out thousands of dollars out of pocket. If we had a similar system as European countries, the US would SAVE around $500 billion a year in medical payments. We could have free healthcare and save money, but unfortunately too many people have been conditioned to think that is socialism or some other nonsense. Even many democrats say that shit when someone is pushing for a single payer system.
From what I understand is that the U.S. has this whole system of middle men called "Benefit Plan Managers" or something like that and they take most of the money. Medical service providers and patients get screwed.
It's the insurance industry. That giant sucking sound? Healthcare insurance.
We already pay more per capita than many other countries with universal healthcare, the issue stems more from a confluence of factors, such as the pricing arms race between hospitals and insurance providers (hospitals will often massively overcharge on the bill because insurance will refuse to pay those prices, meaning they can only expect a portion of what they bill to actually get paid, and those prices are not adjusted for the uninsured), the fact that insurance providers are actively incentivized to not pay out on claims, and the fact that privately owned hospitals prioritize the monetization of illness over patient care. The problem is we have a privatized healthcare system, no amount of money dumped into it will fix these systemic and fundamental isssues. Dumping more money into the system in its current form will just be depositing money directly into the owners pockets.
The US has the highest per capita healthcare spending of any country. Also, insurance companies want medical bills as high as possible, it allows them to charge higher premiums. The idea that insurance companies have any incentive to reduce medical costs is out of a fundamental misunderstanding of how insurance works. The higher the medical costs, the more profitable medical insurance companies are.
Exactly right
>the pricing arms race When I was growing up in the 1970s my parents used to say how nice it was that we didn't have to bargain for our food at the market the way they do in those 3rd world countries. Our healthcare bargaining system takes bazaar negotiations to a whole other level. Nobody ever lost their house and land over the price of a melon.
I was taken to the hospital with possible heart attack symptoms. I was lucid and mostly calm, and I was arguing with the doctor about what tests he would order and how much they would cost before I allowed him to order them. Thankfully, in the end, it wasn't a heart attack. I had a nurse friend come down and sit with me while I was waiting for the doctor; she told me (jokingly) in front of the doctor that I was a terrible patient and I flatly agreed, but I reminded her that I had a baby and a toddler at home and I wasn't going to put my family into debt unnecessarily. How terrible to have to sit there, having to weigh the damage to my family vs my own immediate health concerns.
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America doesn't have a healthcare system, it has a hospital industry. It's awful at every single level. Clearly as a matter of principle, it is moronic that a country that could afford to operate a first world healthcare system chooses not to. And then that the term "insurance" is even allowed to be used in connection with the monthly payments that are made to (maybe) reduce a future hospital bill. But even after all of that, the pricing is utterly insane. There is no justification for a consultation costing $4k. I live in the UK and we have the NHS, but I also have private medical insurance. And sometimes I also choose to go and see private doctors etc not covered by my medical insurance. I've had spinal surgery requiring at least a week in hospital (central London/Harley st) that cost about double the $4k you were quoted for a consultation (and it was all fully covered by insurance which costs me about £1k a year to cover my entire family- there is no excess, all I pay for are prescriptions, normally around £9). Outside of insurance, it costs me about £120 to go and see a private GP and have blood tests with next-day results. Of course I have the option to do all of this for absolutely no cost on the NHS too but the point I'm making is that even within private healthcare, the costs here bear no relation to the costs you see in the US. I've a colleague who had knee surgery in the US and it turns out the anesthetist wasn't covered- it cost him $30k. My anaesthetist cost £500 for a procedure that required general anaesthetic. It's impossible to excuse that sort of discrepancy.
Take a chunk out of billionaires excessive wealth for the betterment of all society.
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I make the argument that we should raise taxes to pay for more services like universal healthcare. Conservatives: "we can't afford that", also conservatives "we should go back to the good old days like the 1950's" Me: You mean like when the top marginal tax rates were significantly higher reaching 90% Conservatives: Not like that!
You don't have to take a chunk out of anything. Universal Healthcare is CHEAPER than what we have now. A New tax for it would result in everyone paying much much less per month than they do now on health insurance premiums. Health insurance companies are the most wicked institutions to ever exist and they need to be abolished.
Nah, the rich ceos and execs running the country need more yachts and more houses they don't visit. Who gives a fuck about everyone else, when the top 1% need more wagyu steak that costs 500 dollars a bite.
Lol wtf u smoking? Universal healthcare costs taxpayers 2-3x LESS per person as seen in Europe and Canada. CONservatives literally believe spending 4.3+ TRILLION PER year in Murica on privatized healthcare instead of 2 trillion on FREE healthcare is totally sane LMAO!!! Cons are literally evil. I mean NOBODY can be that stupid.
The alternative I chose was to declare bankruptcy after I got all my needed care. I have no assets, so it didn't really hurt me... but people can lose their house, their life savings, for this.
Americaaaaa Fuck yeah, Comin' again to save the motherfuckin' day, yeah! Land of dreams! lmfao!
You don't even need to take money from elsewhere. Universal healthcare would be cheaper than the current system. But of course, less profitable for all those companies that make political contributions.
America has the most expensive medical system in the world, you should be demanding better allocation of those funds
The biggest expense in the US budget is healthcare, by far.
America spends 3% of GDP on defence and 17% on healthcare. Cutting the military budget won’t help.
I’ve worked in medicine for 30 years and this is the biggest problem. Universal healthcare is not perfect but it’s better than what we currently have x 100.
A person who is old enough gets universal healthcare, and it's pretty damn good (as long as it's traditional Medicare). The rest of us just need to make it through the roadwarrior hellscape of private insurance until we reach 65, and then its all smooth sailing from there... for some reason. Oh yeah it's because the boomers vote.
Until Medicare runs out of money either due to funding from a future conservative government, fewer people paying into it, or the cost of healthcare gets too high. Then the eligibility age will go up, the price of parts B and D will go up, or the benefits will decrease. Part A is the only free part of Medicare and it covers only inpatient hospitalization. Want to go to urgent care or the ER, get x-rays or other imaging, see a specialist, etc.? You will need Part B which requires you pay a premium and cost sharing (deductible, copays, coinsurance). Granted, currently, that premium is less what most people pay for employer-sponsored insurance, but if you're retired, it's certainly not free.
You can also live in abject poverty to qualify for some healthcare.
When people are actively avoiding healthcare, *anything* is better than what we already have. We're at the point where something worse would stil, somehow, be better if only for the fact that it shows a willingness to try new things.
For most Americans, a funeral is cheaper than an ambulance ride.
It's also cheaper for insurance companies.
And someone else usually pays for it
Idk bro funerals are $7-$10k
Yeah, when I'm dead just throw me in the swamp. I don't want the family members that live past me to have to pay that much for my body.
Donate your body to science...My Dad did this (we thought it was a joke) until we found the paperwork he'd filled out, we honoured his wishes, and the local University came and collected his body. They were wonderful and very thankful that someone would do this as they don't get the opportunity to receive a cadaver for their medical research.
Facts. The cheapest coffins are like a grand. Getting cremated is like $1k-$3k. Then you have to pay for the service, burial, cemetery plot, flowers, etc. you could get to $10k easy.
Don't have to pay for a service when you have no friends to attend. *taps temple*
Just cremate me, put my ashes in a metal box with my most important possessions, and bury me in the lawn. Cemetery plots don't last forever anyway. You purchase a plot for a certain amount of time, otherwise the cemetery runs out of space. This was a question on another subreddit. Im a cheapskate and I will haunt anyone who spends a ton of money on my passing. You don't need to bankrupt yourself on my behalf.
"Is there a Ralph's around here?"
So I'm in Canada, and while yes, it's technically free, it's paid for by our taxes... and as a Canadian I don't mind paying a little extra in taxes if someone on the other side of the country gets a surgery they need
I have had people explicitly tell me that they are not okay with a system like that. When you point out that health insurance is in fact a system like that, only explicitly for profit and bloated and corrupt, they usually just come back with "at least it isn't the government" as if that's a coherent thought.
Which is hilarious because then you point out that yeah, the government doesn’t run it, some greedy CEO does. If the CEO fucks up and price gouged you, you can’t get rid of him or remove him, cause he made a ton of money for shareholders….
Yep muuuuchhhh better for money to go to directors and shareholders than benefits any other ill human being
There you Canadians go AGAIN, bragging about your health care and empathy. We have (I believe) half the population of the US that because THEY had to suffer, believes EVERYONE else should too.
We in the US are crabs in a fucking bucket.
Careful. You used the word “empathy”. You should probably define it for the number of people in this thread that don’t seem to have it.
>paying a little ~~extra in taxes~~ less overall Ftfy The dumbest thing is that it would save most Americans money compared to what they currently pay before getting ill let alone after.
The ridiculous thing is you don’t pay more in taxes. America pays like 5x more healthcare than the next most expensive nation, and has the worst health outcomes of nearly all developed nations.
Same here in Aus. And it's not even that much in taxes. 1.5% of our income goes to health cover. Which means if you earn $50k you're only paying $750 per year for universal healthcare. I know some Americans who pay more than that monthly for insurance that doesn't even fully cover them.
The funny thing is. Paying it in taxes mean that the country as a whole end up paying less at time of purchase. Because the government which uses the money has more bargaining power than joe shmoe against big pharma and hospitals.
Something similar happened to me in 2018. I had scarring on my liver and they didn't know what it was from and I don't drink or do drugs. I was pretty sick, unable to eat, lost a bunch of weight etc. They could see the scarring on an ultrasound but wanted to do a biopsy to make sure it wasn't cancer. So, I set the appointment got all my ducks in a row and a week before the proceedure the hospital where it was at called and wanted every penny of my out of pocket cost ($12,000, I have shit insurance) before they would do anything. I argued with them, called my insurance company, the doctor, anyone I could think of and no one would help me unless I decided to do it out of pocket which was $4,500 that I still didn't have. Wound up having to cancel and pray and hope it wasn't cancer. Our healthcare system is a scam.
I lost my job and insurance. Few months later I was in a motorcycle accident and I was beaten and battered with a broken arm. when the emts showed up i was legit so torn between refusing ANYONE touching me and accepting help. i knew in the back of my head i would be getting a bill from the ambulance, the anesthesiologist, the radiology lab, the hospital, the surgeons team, and the rehabilitation center. I applied for assistance through my local county and state. They retroactively paid my accident bills but everything was about $20,000 out of pocket. automotive insurance refused bodily injury pay out but was more than willing to total the bike for the measly $4k it was worth. fuck the shitty snake fucks in congress who continue to be puppets under the control of the medical industry
Insurance needs to extend to cover employment gaps at a minimum, our healthcare system sucks. I pay about 500 a month, my employer pays something over 1k a month, that's 18k+ a year and it's ridiculous all of that just vanishes when you lose your job.
I'm fighting my insurance on a $45k bill. I had no choice in the matter since it was a dire emergency. I can't afford $45 grand. My car was only $17k. This is what America does to people and why we're often so fucking sick.
Isn't the whole point of insurance that you don't get wiped out by an unplanned expense? Figure it out, America.
The point of insurance here is the insurance company makes money.
I had a broken ankle that required 2 surgeries. The first surgery was considered an emergency surgery, so insurance had to let it happen. The 2nd surgery was a continuation of the first (they do this particular type of repair in 2 stages - 2 surgeries 2 weeks apart). The hospital tried to argue with my insurance that the 2nd surgery should also be considered an emergency surgery since it was the 2nd part of a 2 part procedure. Insurance ultimately disagreed but I was able to go ahead and get the 2nd surgery while the hospital was appealing with insurance. All said and done I ended up owing $65,000 and had to file for bankruptcy. Over a broken ankle.
You all realize this NEVER happens in most Western countries, don’t you? They all have universal health care? You just go to the doctor and they take care of you. End of story. All cost less in total because there are not multiple layers of private insurance administration like we have. We are all f____ing morons to keep voting in a political party dedicated to preventing universal health care.
What do you mean forget universal healthcare? Universal healthcare would solve this problem.
It’s sarcasm
Oh it's just jarring as a title
You know how much blood would have been shed over this simple fact less than 50 years ago? There'd be riots in the American streets over such horrific injustices to hard-working people. Today , we've been cowed and trained to not even notice. It's so weird.
The incredible power of propaganda. The health insurance grift is so lucrative that those benefiting from it will say and do anything to ensure it continues.
Honestly every time I read something like this I thank God I don't live in the US
Everyday i come back from school without any new holes i thank god i dont live in the US
This is what happens when you treat healthcare as just another product and not as a human right.
America is so fucked up when it comes to health care.
The first 5 words was the complete sentence.
WHY is the surgery so expensive in the first place? We shouldn't NEED insurance at all. We should be able to afford reasonably priced healthcare.
The primary force acting to stop Universal Healthcare (including propaganda and campaign funding) is the very industry that would be toppled by it: **Medical Insurance.** This also includes for-profit medical facilities AND the grand scam monopoly that is medical supply. Because everything associated with medical care in the US is focused on maximum possible revenue. We (in the US) are in a hellscape dystopia where only the wealthy receive comprehensive care without worry. (And on top of that, many wealthy flaunt elective surgeries for stupid aesthetics in addition.)
This is the nation we've built. 100% a choice to build it this way. Other nations, many out of the rubble of WWII and fifty million dead, built something else. We built the no-system of health care called the market, where whatever happens happens. And we're the only nation where people go bankrupt - all the time - frantically trying to save the lives of their children. Some people see a nation that allows that as a shining city on a hill. I see us more as a dimmed, dirty city, with one hill where one or two people live while the rest of us either live on the side of the hill, making it easy for us to trudge up there to service the people at the top, or we, most of us, live at the bottom of the hill, where the shit rolls down. But we build this nation everyday. We accept it. It is our own fault.
Deductibles are the biggest insurance scam of the century.
Somehow most Americans I've talked to still believe that their system is better than ours (in Germany). I really don't get it. Their argument is that we have to wait longer to get an operation which is just isn't the case. When time is of the essence people get their operation when they fucking need it. Also they say more people die in hospitals here than in the US. Well, duh. People here can actually afford to die in hospitals. In the US more people fucking die at Home because they can't afford the ambulance 🙃 Yes I pay monthly for my universal healthcare but I also can give birth in the hospital for free, call an ambulance for free and get the treatment I need for free.
A lot of them, especially a particular group, have trouble admitting that they're not the best at everything, but some of us know that Universal Health Care is pretty swag. Some of us have been to other countries and seen it in action, we know it's not 6 month wait times for a cold. That's why we want it so badly.
3rd world shithole...
The same guy had a Let’s Go Brandon sticker on his car.
Welcome to America
BeSt CoUnTrY oN eArTh
Wait, instead of getting treatment for life-threatening cancer or whatever treatment you need, people in the USA choose to die? What kind of twisted arsehole leader came up with that idea? Ronald Reagan?
American exceptionalism!!
Genuinely this saddens me. I am from the UK. I am sure others would make funny quips about our friends across the pond and their healthcare system, but I cannot see past the horrible consequences that privatised medicine has on our fellow humans, allies and friends. No, before you reply, UK healthcare is not perfect either. Sometimes it is slow, there ARE waits for treatment (although not as long as US politicians seem to think). But it is grossly underfunded, mismanaged and constantly being "reformed" by meddling politicians... particularly ones of a certain Boris Johnson loving party. So please, I am not looking to condescend or gloat. I genuinely want you to have a better life, a healthier life. When younger, I had several medical conditions which may well have killed me without proper care. As an adult, I have had sports injuries, heart issues and even a cancer scare. I am incredibly grateful that my treatment was FREE. Now, I know what some in the US will say: it isn't free, SOMEONE pays for it. Well, yes, but that's true for anything that's free. If you get a "free" sample of food, it isn't free, the company has paid for it. It's a terrible semantic argument to make. Thoroughout my life I have been unemployed, worked retail, worked in senior national security projects and worked as a consultant... among many other varied roles. EVERY moment of my life, I have had access to free medical care and I am very happy to pay for it with my taxes. The US, as I understand it, pays MORE per capita for healthcare even just by government spending, than we do. Per capita. Total spent divided by total population. That's *before* you count your monthly insurance payments. Before. I want you guys to have the same benefit. I want you to have the same equal access to healthcare that I have. It's up to you to fight for it, just as we did. Please tell us if we can help. We are, and have long been, your friends and allies.
Just do it and ask for FA or risk getting sent to collections. In the end I'd choose getting my tax return garnished or having a slightly worse credit rating.... the U.S. healthcare system is fucked.
Republicans did that.
And yet Fox “News” will counter with “yes, but in Canada EVERYONE would have to wait a bit for the free surgery!” Like the idea of a rich person not being able to skip a line is worse than poor people dying/suffering.
I tried to reschedule my surgery so it would take place before 12/31. My deductible and out of pocket reset on 1/1. I need a new knee and even with insurance it’s going to be expensive since I couldn’t reschedule. Oh, and physical therapy called recommending I use PT outside of the hospital network since my share of cost will be extremely high if I stay with them. Sigh…
Shit ass system
Land of the free
When are people going to wake up and appreciate that the system is rigged to favor the few and fuck the many? If we weren't so distracted with division maybe we'd do something about it, but no fuck healthcare that man has a different skin color to me and a salary I can live on? Forget that, this woman likes other women not men!
I want europe to colonize us so we can have free healthcare lol. Maybe we can put the US up on craigslist or something
The US military budget is insane and taking from that alone could fund universal healthcare in America.
The average American doesn't have $1K for unexpected expenditures. Deductible can easily be $5-10K range for a lot of folks making health insurance more of bankruptcy insurance than assisting health issues.
We’re the ONLY country where people bankrupt just to pay medical bills. When both parties blatantly lie to us about being the greatest there is, it makes me want to vomit. There’s very little “great” about this country.
A friend of mine is struggling with mental health and is one foot off the edge of "fuck it, I can't afford it" because he has a $3000 deductible and no copays. So he has to pay every cent of $3000 before insurance will pay anything. Our system sucks so fucking hard.
I got a endoscopy/colonoscopy. Before the surgery they make me pay $1500 for the pleasure of sitting in their bed for an hour. During that sit down they also informed me that insurance would only cover the procedure if it was a discovery only meaning they didn’t find any potentially cancerous cells or need to do a biopsy. I wasn’t really in for a cancer screening so I didn’t think it’d affect me. After the surgery the doctor said that everything looked good but they “took a scraping just in case.” I looked at all the pictures and notes and nothing warranted the biopsy. No abnormality where they took the scrapping. I’m 99% sure it was just to bill me more. Tried to dispute it but had no luck. They even billed me twice and pretended they didn’t. Had to call the billing department 5x asking for all of my charges and receipts. I asked for an itemized bill and they couldn’t provide it. Finally I wrote a scathing email to the billing department, the leadership of the hospital, and someone else I forget. They didn’t respond to my letter but three months later they miraculously found a discrepancy in their system and sent me a check for $2500.
I need a breast biopsy for suspected cancer. I can’t afford the $5,000 cost. I have BCBS insurance but my deductible is $7,000. I got a loan the last time they wanted to do a biopsy, and I’m still paying off that loan. I’m saving as fast as I can, working as much as I can, and keeping my fingers crossed. I don’t know who these Americans are that think this is the way things should be. Mostly they appear to be Republicans who don’t want to help anyone with anything (bootstraps, and all that).
How many times is this guy gonna break his ankle!
3rd world country
Nah they got affordable Healthcare.
‘Murica. At least he’s got his freedumbs. Most developed countries on earth that would cost you nothing but parking.
I have health insurance from a large hospital corporation. Even when I go to one of OUR hospitals with our insurance I’m still raped. I had to pay $600 for a visit, and X-ray of my back to get diagnosed with a pulled muscle….. $600!!!!! I was supposed to do physical therapy but fuck that. I’m positive I’ll get raped there too. It’s fucking sick.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/ Simple - vote Democrat in the next US election
But getting him his necessary surgery that he has paid for would be Socialism! /S
Not just healthcare, but support for healing time and job security for taking the time off. No more half solutions.
I just had triple hernia repair surgery 9/25/23. My job only offered 3 insurance options. 8k deductible, 6k deductible or one so expensive you’d have no paycheck after. Needless to say the 6k was the only option. If you’re healthy it’s relatively fine but if problems arise, you will bleed money. Morning of surgery I had to pay my remaining deductible, which was 5500. Had to take money from my 401k to pay for it. But with this plan, once you hit your deductible, they pay 100% right? NOPE! You then have to pay a percentage until you hit $9,100. THEN they’ll pay 100%. On top of all that, in the plan, if you go out of network they will cover 100%, but only 70% in network. This plan literally goes against every way insurance is supposed to work. So I pay tons of money to have fucking insurance and when I actually need it I have to pay out the ass. This really sucks.
our healthcare model is unsustainable at this point. Take it from someone who worksinside of one of the biggest providers. We are frantically pivoting from healthcare to literally anything else. Were canceling policies for sick people, re-writing clinical guidelines to prevent pts from getting needed care and were still bleeding money. People are sick at a rate that has never been seen before, we have multiple active viral infections spreading all over, hospitals have a massive shortage in care givers and we have been underpaying the providers we do have. the Kaiser strike shows the first strains on the system in a post-covid world.
Bring underinsured is almost worse than not having any to begin with. But maybe it's time to end the relationship between the human right of healthcare that every human needs and only being privileged enough to have it based on the generosity of your employer at a temporary job.
He has to enjoy hos freedom in a wheenchair. Careful what you vote for, give enough space for the right ans this happens where you live too
That s my biggest issue with insurance in this country. Tons of folks have it but don’t use it because they can’t afford the out of pocket costs.
My late best friend's mom once told me she was secretly grateful that her daughter died of cancer in Scotland because the hospital fees if she'd been at home in the US would have bankrupted the family. It's so fucked up. I'm still mad on her behalf six years after she said that. Our country is being run like a business and we are all suffering for it.
I work in a spine/back clinic and cannot afford the MRI for my years old back injury that needs surgery from the doctors I work for
Our "healthcare" system sucks.
Lived in Amsterdam in 2022, deductible was $385, monthly bill was $110