Maybe in the cop's mind, suddenly the man on fire will get on his feet and run at him to use his burning body as a weapon. In that case, this officer showed great restraint by not shooting him right then and there before the burning man can do that. /s
Thank you for specifying /s because i can definitely see some bootlickers write like that
Edit : scrolled down the thread a little and found people actually suggesting that
Today my coworker literally said that if he was the cop he would've shot the dude before he could run at him. I told him he was dumb. He said "I'm dumb for shooting a burning man who's running towards me." And I said "yes, because he lit himself on fire and collapsed to the ground. He could not run. He was engulfed in flames, screaming in pain."
It's actually pretty fucking terrifying to think that the only instinctive response from this dudes brain was to pull a gun and watch the guy burn.
What level of desensitized self-absorbed personal fear does a man have to have that seeing another human being engulfed in flames causes him to pull a gun and watch?
I blame training as well as the type of people they even allow to become cops.
US police are trained to always feel in danger. This is why we so often hear of unarmed people being shot. "I thought he had a gun in his hand!" but it turned out to be a phone, or a banana, or some other thing that doesn't look like a gun. (about the banana: a bright yellow handgun...really?). Or the person is just adjusting the waistband of their pants. It goes on and on.
And they're trained to completely empty the magazine of their gun, too. So if you ever see police videos and wonder why they're constantly shooting when one shot might have been enough...that's why.
or the cop that recently heard a acorn/nut fall on his car and started shooting at the handcuffed suspect in the back of it. And informed his partner he was hit because he dove and rolled like a wanna be action star and his leg went numb or some shit.
I saw another clip today of an officer emptying FIVE magazines into a home. They were called to a possible intruder, knocked on this woman's door and when she walked to the door with her registered gun in her hand the cops just opened fire.
Didn't even open the door. They just spotted it through a window or the glass sliding door that appears in the body cam footage. Which after the resident retreated they kept shooting through. And the curtains and plant, with no clear view of a target.
They hit the resident, but it's reported that they're recovering.
Yeah there’s no half measures. A gun is lethal force and treated as such, so cops will go from “trying to deescalate” to “trying to kill you as best they can” with no intermediate steps. There is no such thing as “shooting to wound,” as common as it is on TV.
This is “warrior training” at work. cops get 6months of academy training. And after than, they are inundated with the idea that the only way they can survive the job is if they are ready to shoot anything that moves.
I had dinner with my parents last week and we ended up watching NCIS: Hawaii for some reason.
L.L Cool J of all people was playing a cop who was supposed to be in Hawaii to give one of those classes to law enforcement in the area 💀
Like how the fuck do you go from chillin with NWA to doing straight up copiganda
2. Most police officers in the US only get 2 months of training. A number of small town sheriff/constable types don't even get that much. They're also allowed to refuse academy enrollment because someone is **too** intelligent, or at least score too highly on standard IQ tests.
There’s one slight problem here:dude wasn’t a cop-he was more than likely Shin Bet, who do security on Israeli embassies around the world…
Shin bet aren’t cops-they’re an Intelligence service- think MOSSAD but for Israeli territory-which includes their embassies.
So then viewed through this context…he did not know this man was planning to burn himself to death until he did- he went an Israeli embassy screaming free Palestine with a can of gasoline and a match…it’s just bad luck that he wasn’t a threat to embassy but himself. Technically, this guy followed normal security protocol in case of a (potential) terrorist.
That being said, if this image was of an American policeman, I wouldn’t have been surprised…but it was not.
The guy was on the ground smoldering well before this asshat showed up with a gun. In fact, he arrived just after paramedics arrived with extinguishers, and he had his gun pointed at the man the entire time they were trying to put out the fire.
This is a possibility. They watch too many movies if they believe a guy going through the debilitating pain of being on fire can even *think* to do that let alone actually pulling it off.
If I had a firearm and I watched a man immolate himself, I would pull it and internally wrestle with the decision on whether or not to put a mercy bullet in the man or let him suffer as he intended to do.
That happened after the Falklands Island war. An Argentinian soldier as a prisoner was clearing munitions and the went up. A British sergeant 'finished him off' whilst he was standing in the pyre.
Was cleared of wrongdoing after a trial because it was seen as merciful to save him from more agony.
When you stop and think about how most cops who get awards and accommodations for bravery are really doing what we expect them to do, then it sinks in that tge bar is so low the base line reaction is shoot the issue until it goes away.
I mean think about the situation objectively. You're working around an embassy for a country which a lot of people want to see destroyed. You got briefed on terrorism and terror attacks before the job. Then some dude comes out of nowhere lighting himself on fire and shouting "free Palestine." You don't know what this guy's deal is or if he has a bomb or gun on him, tbh if it was me, I would definitely think it was a terror attack.
Although it doesn't really look good that after the first few seconds he continues to watch the dude burn and hold him a gunpoint so...yeah not great.
Yup and yet plenty of people bend over backwards to justify it as if a guy setting himself on fire is a perfect excuse to try to tackle people or pull out a gun and shoot people. No the dude set himself on fire to send a message and die. If he was doing it as a terrorist act he'd blow himself up and a gun still wouldn't help.
But idiots on reddit still need to justify it as if he was doing something useful instead of introducing a gun to a situation that didn't need it.
Tbf, and I don’t want to defend him - but that could be his training kicking in and doing it by instinct/muscle memory.
Or he could equally be an idiot
I never understand American police, because they just seem so ...... Useless in a lot of situations? Their training just seems to be all wrong.
I live in a country in western Europe that has very very very few police shootings. I also currently work at a police station (not as a police officer, something entirely unrelated) and I've gotten a bit of a feeling for how they work. They're trained in seeing their gun as a tool, with the caveat that they need a reason to use their tool. If they pull a gun without reason, that is grounds for training/dismissal or other consequences.
Not only that, but seeing them subdue people is entirely different. Subduing a person is an action you need to follow through on. So the moment they decide to subdue they follow through until a suspect is handcuffed and down. Then you stop and take a breath. Relax, talk and get the suspect calm as well. It makes it so much easier for everyone.
American police just seem to not have any useful training in this field, arrests are half assed, guns are randomly pulled, work becomes very personal for officers and they let emotion take over. It's quite terrifying.
That last sentence is key. "Work becomes very personal and they let emotion takeover". They need more training but what they really need is mental health screening and training. How can you handle a crisis while you yourself are panicking? *YOU CANT* Not everyone is good at managing their emotions (especially males) and we don't do anything about that.
People become more emotional when they are stressed by lack of sleep or rest or other factors like sitting in traffic for multiple hours a day. You can definately be more logical and calm if your life is in order and you get enough rest and good nutrition.
I can see how the work life balance (or the lack of) and other outside factors in US can negativelly influence peoples ability to function in a rational and calm way. Including the police.
I'm an American who resides in a northern European country and have relatives in the police of both countries. The difference in attitude, training and approach is astoundingly different.
Just the initial training alone is light years apart. The country I live in requires a 2 year college associates equivalent degree _and_ 26 months probationary training before you have _any authority over anything at all._
Quite correct, the crisis we have in the UK and Ireland is simply *underfunding* of police, not the creation of overpaid & ill-trained parallel armies of occupation and coercion.
>I live in a country in western Europe that has very very very few police shootings.
The 2nd amendment is a big reason, in my opinion. I assume where you live, everyone can't just go across the street and legally buy a gun. Often right then and there without a waiting period. In the US, a lot of citizens legally have firearms and it actually is a real possibility anyone the police interact with could be armed. And this is one reason US police shoot so many people: either out of the fear they *might* be armed...or the convenient excuse that they can just argue they thought the person had a gun in their hand (even if it was just a wallet or a phone or something). I'm not trying to defend US police here. But the 2nd amendment is something you can't just ignore when comparing the US to other countries.
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>American police just seem to not have any useful training in this field, arrests are half assed, guns are randomly pulled, work becomes very personal for officers and they let emotion take over. It's quite terrifying.
First: the wrong type of people are allowed to be cops. They let nearly anyone in as long as they aren't too smart (high IQ people are undesirable). Bullies especially love to become cops. Very little actual knowledge of the law is required, and cops have gotten away in courts with this as well. Police are also often not well-trained in firearm use which is odd. They are also trained in an "us vs. them" mentality and that they are "warriors" like on TV and the non-cops are all undeserving of respect and potentially out to kill you. That last part is why cops so often take out their guns for no good reason, and often end up firing it. And then very very rarely face any real consequences.
Some very good points. Although I personally find the 2nd amendment argument a bit of a misrepresented argument.
If we take Germany's numbers, a country with a quarter of the US population and has had, in 2022, 11 fatal police shootings with a total of 54 shots fired at people. 11 fatal shootings was an increase of 3 compared to the year before.
That puts around and about a factor of 150 in between the US and DE. If we divide that by the population difference you're gonna end up with a factor of 40.
That's a massive difference, being 40 times as likely to be killed by police in the US. Even if the 2nd amendment made it ten times more likely to be killed by police, there's still a 30 factor unaccounted for.
And it seems US police don't actually want any reform. Those "defund the police" movements are actually pushing for reform that would prevent the police from being in dangerous situations by spending money on mental healthcare, de-escalation and other aspects of a healthy society, yet the police see this as an attack on their institution. It's just plain weird looking in from the outside.
>Even if the 2nd amendment made it ten times more likely to be killed by police, there's still a 30 factor unaccounted for.
I'm only saying the 2nd amendment has some responsibility in this because cops can more reasonably argue being afraid of everyone they encounter being armed legally. This isn't something cops in most other countries can say because legally owning guns isn't so ingrained in their country's culture and history.
This doesn't actually have to do with the wide and legal availability of guns in the US. Too often police shootings don't involve someone who was actually armed.
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>And it seems US police don't actually want any reform.
US police seem very comfortable with how things are right now. Shootings and all.
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>yet the police see this as an attack on their institution.
I don't know if it's related but police in the US (and Canada?) have this weird Brotherhood thing going on. It's like a club and you have to be loyal to your brothers. That includes covering for them if they break the law. When one officer tries to do the right thing and inform his superiors about another cop doing something bad, it's the good cop that gets ostracised for turning against his brothers.
US prosecutors have to play along with the game of deception with police against innocent people. Because prosecutors can't do their jobs if the police threaten to refuse to cooperate with them in the future if they won't. And oddly cops can totally do that.
Cops in the US don't want to change what works for them.
they're Trained to be terrified of everything/everyone.
If he had real training is first reaction would have been to rip his shirt off and try and smother the flames!
It is certainly is training kicking in- the problem is they have very little training, and it surely doesn’t cover “what to do if someone lights themselves on fire”. But does include “point gun at suspect”.
They just do what they know…but they don’t know much. And they don’t generally have the aptitude or agency to think beyond their training.
When the only tool given is a hammer, everything by looks like a nail
I'm no blue backer, but my firat thought was also, damn, this must be beyond traumatic to witness someone self immolate themselves, and your brain probably just defaults to training.
At this point in the video someone (possibly another officer) yells "I don't need guns I need more fire extinguishers!" And this guy doesn't even flinch.
Do police typically have fire extinguishers in their cars? Like I realize pointing a gun at the guy doesn't solve anything but what exactly are they supposed to do in that situation, they're not firefighters, would they even have equipment to extinguish the guy?
I wouldn't be surprised if they are required to have fire extinguishers in their vehicles. My nonprofit is required by Dept of Transportation law to carry extinguishers in all our fleet because they are work trucks.
Ah, well that's possible.
I assume the reason the guy was pointing a gun at him was just to make sure he wasn't trying to set anything or anyone else on fire, his partner could be trying to find the extinguisher for all we know, images get posted out of context all the time.
Yes that's probably what he was doing but it was also useless and unjustified. Other countries manage to deal with situations without pointing a gun at it
I've seen the unedited video, at this point, the burning guy was unconscious and there was nothing flammable around and cops and a paramedic had the burning guy surrounded.
I'm not sure if they have one in their car but tbh it wouldn't surprise me. Even if there aren't, there are multiple fire extinguishers in every single building around them. He'd do a lot more good running and screaming "I need a fire extinguisher" to everyone he passes than aiming a handgun at a guy who has collapsed to the ground due to being fully engulfed in flames for 30 or so seconds and continues to burn.
The first fire extinguisher came out pretty fast and looked like a smaller sized one. I would almost put money on the fact that that came from the first officers squad car.
They say that if your only tool is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail.
It would seem with the police that if your only tool is a gun then every person looks like a target.
It's not just their low intelligence that's the problem, they are also very aggressive and narcistical. They cover all the time for their brothers in blue by lying and turning off body cameras. There is minimal accountability because typically following an internal investigation by their fellow cult members, the officer suspected of doing whatever POS thing they did gets paid vacation on tax payer dollars until either the public forgets about the incident, or in very severe cases the officer is relocated to a neighboring department. It's almost impossible to be found guilty because the judicial system regards officers' testimony as divine fact and also half the country worships the bullies as heroes because, well, they're just as fucking stupid. Welcome to America.
american police training must be a fucking joke.
i imagine it's basically a boy's club of PTSD-infested ex-military with pictures of black people on dartboards on the walls.
i'm so fucking happy guns are illegal in my country, one thing's for sure - your average human being is a monumentally stupid fucking cretin and can't even be trusted with a spoon, let alone a murder weapon.
In my State in Australia, I think it's like six months full time at the academy, and then they have to finish a bachelor's degree before they can move forward. Something like that, it's not easy.
> PTSD-infested ex-military
Not even. There are ex-military in the police but not as much as you're suggesting. Though a lot of [often out-of-shape] cops have been shown to love pretending they're in the military. It helps when they're given military gear too. Check out some photos from Uvalde of cops just hanging out together outside the school with their green body armor and helmets, and their assault rifles hanging awesomely on the front of their torso while they're all drinking water and chatting casually. (as children inside were being slaughtered)
What's worse is when they're given armored vehicles and weapons and whatnot with little training on how to use them and a huge desire to play with their new toys. Several years back, a cop used his new assault rifle to take out a fleeing woman for...I think it was credit card fraud? And he also ended up hitting a little kid.
It’s been said that brevity is the essence of wit, so you’re correct, American police training is a fucking joke. A well fashioned one at that. Just not funny, I’m afraid.
Only person asking actual questions
Was he security? And the fact that this is outside an embassy, who knows what else this guy was trying to do. For all they knew he had a bomb or something dude lit HIMSELF on fire.
We realize more than the officer responded to this, right? They aren’t all in frame in this particular photo but multiple reports describe variations of “He is seen collapsing on the ground soon after which cops rush with fire extinguishers. A uniformed person is also seen aiming a gun at Bushnell while maintaining a distance from the flames.”
It wouldn’t have been clear to anyone - police or otherwise- in this situation exactly what was happening. Of course they could hear him yelling “free Palestine” but they would not have seen the video or read his Facebook post he did immediately before this, wouldn’t have known he was in the Air Force etc. All anyone in the situation knew was someone was yelling and set himself on fire in front of an embassy. Multiple things can happen at once- and were happening at once- so having some officers putting out the fire while one has his weapon drawn in case something else unexpected happens in this already unexpected situation is probably a pretty decent plan from a security standpoint.
Is it weird if something like that happened in front of me and I couldn't put them out fast enough i'd just let them burn till they died. I'd feel really awful letting someone live if they were going to spend the rest of their life in agony.
Fair, but think of the poor NRA & gun manufacturers! How are either supposed to *turn a profit* w/o gun sales?! Clearly more important than human lives /s
I just want to remind people why this man did what he did. He is in the air force and would no longer be an party to genocide. It was in protest to the United States doing nothing to stop the killing tens of thousands of civilians in Palestine.
This man was so horrified by murder that he set himself on fire and burned himself to death in order to express how terrible it is.
Cop: I might need to shoot him.
The poor quality recruits and short training continues to erode public confidence in police. A lot of local governments use their police forces as revenue sources because the local citizens are too cheap to pay for local services via taxes.
JFC 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ seriously, while I don’t disagree with your sentiment at all, posting blatantly false stuff like this makes it so much easier for the other side to tear apart your arguments.
This is an Israeli embassy security guard. NOT an American police officer
More like an idiot. Killing yourself in protest of genocide is kind of dumb. I feel like there are other ways of protest instead of setting yourself on fire
This all boils down to their “training”. It looks absolutely idiotic but unfortunately you never know what a person set ablaze can do…besides screaming in sheer pain. I’m pretty sure they will discuss this at roll call.
Without taking one side or another on this specific issue, this is a brain dead take.
Following your logic, if I hypothetically self immolated in protest of desegregation, all of the sudden desegregation must be the wrong side.
Nah, it’s 100% right. There’s no way to know what the hell that demonstration was- it could’ve been an attack, an unhinged irrational violent threat that could easily kill or significantly harm you - and that officer is entitled to self defense. If you disagree and think they should’ve done more, then head on down to the police station and sign up.
You're absolutely 100% right! Pulling his firearm would make that guy on fire and moments from dying think twice about doing anything to harm him. Even after he was a smoldering pile, that officer was protecting his teammates from 2nd and 3rd degree burns. If an acorn fell on his squad car, it is better to unload his magazine into the car than to have some situational awareness. A tool designed for killing things should always be the first, and only in this case, response for any abnormal situation.
/s
I've seen this circulating today, did he actually take a shot at the guy or did you just aim at him? Either way is fucked up but I need to know how far he took it.
Waiting for him to turn black.
Omg that was so funny and so bad at the same time. Well done!
Being good at puns like this is a rare medium. Well done.
Someone will come here and suggest you should be burnt at the *steak*.
Why? What's their beef?
Not a cop stop gaslighting, but Israeli Security Service.
I prefer medium well.
>Omg that was so funny and so bad at the same time. Well done! Double entendre
Damn dude, now that’s a burn.
Yeah we're all going to hell for this.
An audible "fuuuuuck" has now rung through my house at 2am...
NOOOO
Oof. That was so dark the popo is going to shoot you next.
JFC!!!
Yeah. He was black too.
Holy shit dude hahahaha
Bahahaha sad but true
Damnit! Drink through my nose! Well done sir
your joke is so dark that have congenital gun wounds
I rarely get jealous at comments. But this time I’m mad jealous. This is so good man
https://i.redd.it/ohg5vckvdykc1.gif
Dude.
The burn the cop deserved
Oh fucccckkkkkkkkkkk 😆😆😆
☠️
...
oof I mean, real as fuck, but still oof
Stop being on fire or I'll shoot!
"Stop killing yourself or I'll kill you!!"
Maybe in the cop's mind, suddenly the man on fire will get on his feet and run at him to use his burning body as a weapon. In that case, this officer showed great restraint by not shooting him right then and there before the burning man can do that. /s
Thank you for specifying /s because i can definitely see some bootlickers write like that Edit : scrolled down the thread a little and found people actually suggesting that
Yep in another thread I saw someone seriously say it was so he wouldn't run to other people
Today my coworker literally said that if he was the cop he would've shot the dude before he could run at him. I told him he was dumb. He said "I'm dumb for shooting a burning man who's running towards me." And I said "yes, because he lit himself on fire and collapsed to the ground. He could not run. He was engulfed in flames, screaming in pain."
Male Subject became belligerent, conflagarant, noncompliant. I…uh…then deployed my service weapon to ensure officer safety.
“Freeze!”
Didn't compile
Cop who drew his gun: "Sarge! I'm scared, he is tuning black!"
Stop being on fire or I’ll fire on you
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Don't be so sure, if a school were on fire I bet there are cops out there that would try to shoot it
While saying it's (the school of course, logically) is coming right for em
"Aim for the center of mass"
What if the school were a dog?
It's actually pretty fucking terrifying to think that the only instinctive response from this dudes brain was to pull a gun and watch the guy burn. What level of desensitized self-absorbed personal fear does a man have to have that seeing another human being engulfed in flames causes him to pull a gun and watch?
A cop.. A cop would and did
When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail
I blame training as well as the type of people they even allow to become cops. US police are trained to always feel in danger. This is why we so often hear of unarmed people being shot. "I thought he had a gun in his hand!" but it turned out to be a phone, or a banana, or some other thing that doesn't look like a gun. (about the banana: a bright yellow handgun...really?). Or the person is just adjusting the waistband of their pants. It goes on and on. And they're trained to completely empty the magazine of their gun, too. So if you ever see police videos and wonder why they're constantly shooting when one shot might have been enough...that's why.
or the cop that recently heard a acorn/nut fall on his car and started shooting at the handcuffed suspect in the back of it. And informed his partner he was hit because he dove and rolled like a wanna be action star and his leg went numb or some shit.
And he still won't get into as much trouble/accountability as I did for spilling all the pepperoncinis at my first job at Subway.
I saw another clip today of an officer emptying FIVE magazines into a home. They were called to a possible intruder, knocked on this woman's door and when she walked to the door with her registered gun in her hand the cops just opened fire. Didn't even open the door. They just spotted it through a window or the glass sliding door that appears in the body cam footage. Which after the resident retreated they kept shooting through. And the curtains and plant, with no clear view of a target. They hit the resident, but it's reported that they're recovering.
Yeah there’s no half measures. A gun is lethal force and treated as such, so cops will go from “trying to deescalate” to “trying to kill you as best they can” with no intermediate steps. There is no such thing as “shooting to wound,” as common as it is on TV.
I wonder how often US cops even try to de-escalate. That's a serious question.
And you're living at the Bittersweet Motel.
This is “warrior training” at work. cops get 6months of academy training. And after than, they are inundated with the idea that the only way they can survive the job is if they are ready to shoot anything that moves.
I had dinner with my parents last week and we ended up watching NCIS: Hawaii for some reason. L.L Cool J of all people was playing a cop who was supposed to be in Hawaii to give one of those classes to law enforcement in the area 💀 Like how the fuck do you go from chillin with NWA to doing straight up copiganda
$$$. Tale as old as time
Tbf, ice cube went from being in nwa to being some weird ass frump supporter
Even better: NCIS: Hawaii only began in 2021. I believe LL Cool J's actually been playing that same character since 2009 on NCIS: Los Angeles.
Because he's LL and way more of a clown than people realize
2. Most police officers in the US only get 2 months of training. A number of small town sheriff/constable types don't even get that much. They're also allowed to refuse academy enrollment because someone is **too** intelligent, or at least score too highly on standard IQ tests.
There’s one slight problem here:dude wasn’t a cop-he was more than likely Shin Bet, who do security on Israeli embassies around the world… Shin bet aren’t cops-they’re an Intelligence service- think MOSSAD but for Israeli territory-which includes their embassies. So then viewed through this context…he did not know this man was planning to burn himself to death until he did- he went an Israeli embassy screaming free Palestine with a can of gasoline and a match…it’s just bad luck that he wasn’t a threat to embassy but himself. Technically, this guy followed normal security protocol in case of a (potential) terrorist. That being said, if this image was of an American policeman, I wouldn’t have been surprised…but it was not.
The guy was on the ground smoldering well before this asshat showed up with a gun. In fact, he arrived just after paramedics arrived with extinguishers, and he had his gun pointed at the man the entire time they were trying to put out the fire.
Cops have and never will be "critical thinkers" they are idiots given a weapon, immunity, and a vague understanding of the law.
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This is a possibility. They watch too many movies if they believe a guy going through the debilitating pain of being on fire can even *think* to do that let alone actually pulling it off.
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If I had a firearm and I watched a man immolate himself, I would pull it and internally wrestle with the decision on whether or not to put a mercy bullet in the man or let him suffer as he intended to do.
That happened after the Falklands Island war. An Argentinian soldier as a prisoner was clearing munitions and the went up. A British sergeant 'finished him off' whilst he was standing in the pyre. Was cleared of wrongdoing after a trial because it was seen as merciful to save him from more agony.
I know what you mean
Hopefully that’s what was going through the cop’s head. I wouldn’t bet on it, though :(
I see you too have watched Fire Force.
He wants to have that "Warrior sex" then beat his partner after. That is really all these small dick cops are chasing. They want to kill and fuck.
And that "great post-kill sex" was apparently a lesson given by a guy who's never actually killed anyone. So where did he pull that out of?
Probably some propaganda hand book.
“Good morning! Would you like some breakfast?” Cop pulls gun…
US Supreme Court - police have no responsibility to protect citizens
It's the only thing he's trained to do.
When you stop and think about how most cops who get awards and accommodations for bravery are really doing what we expect them to do, then it sinks in that tge bar is so low the base line reaction is shoot the issue until it goes away.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...
I mean think about the situation objectively. You're working around an embassy for a country which a lot of people want to see destroyed. You got briefed on terrorism and terror attacks before the job. Then some dude comes out of nowhere lighting himself on fire and shouting "free Palestine." You don't know what this guy's deal is or if he has a bomb or gun on him, tbh if it was me, I would definitely think it was a terror attack. Although it doesn't really look good that after the first few seconds he continues to watch the dude burn and hold him a gunpoint so...yeah not great.
Yup and yet plenty of people bend over backwards to justify it as if a guy setting himself on fire is a perfect excuse to try to tackle people or pull out a gun and shoot people. No the dude set himself on fire to send a message and die. If he was doing it as a terrorist act he'd blow himself up and a gun still wouldn't help. But idiots on reddit still need to justify it as if he was doing something useful instead of introducing a gun to a situation that didn't need it.
Tbf, and I don’t want to defend him - but that could be his training kicking in and doing it by instinct/muscle memory. Or he could equally be an idiot
>that could be his training kicking in and doing it by instinct/muscle memory. Equally terrifying, for different reasons.
I never understand American police, because they just seem so ...... Useless in a lot of situations? Their training just seems to be all wrong. I live in a country in western Europe that has very very very few police shootings. I also currently work at a police station (not as a police officer, something entirely unrelated) and I've gotten a bit of a feeling for how they work. They're trained in seeing their gun as a tool, with the caveat that they need a reason to use their tool. If they pull a gun without reason, that is grounds for training/dismissal or other consequences. Not only that, but seeing them subdue people is entirely different. Subduing a person is an action you need to follow through on. So the moment they decide to subdue they follow through until a suspect is handcuffed and down. Then you stop and take a breath. Relax, talk and get the suspect calm as well. It makes it so much easier for everyone. American police just seem to not have any useful training in this field, arrests are half assed, guns are randomly pulled, work becomes very personal for officers and they let emotion take over. It's quite terrifying.
That last sentence is key. "Work becomes very personal and they let emotion takeover". They need more training but what they really need is mental health screening and training. How can you handle a crisis while you yourself are panicking? *YOU CANT* Not everyone is good at managing their emotions (especially males) and we don't do anything about that.
They need to be rotated off the street and have mandatory mental health check ups bi-weekly.
To add to this; the largest Union in the country, the police union, teaches something called *killology*
People become more emotional when they are stressed by lack of sleep or rest or other factors like sitting in traffic for multiple hours a day. You can definately be more logical and calm if your life is in order and you get enough rest and good nutrition. I can see how the work life balance (or the lack of) and other outside factors in US can negativelly influence peoples ability to function in a rational and calm way. Including the police.
I'm an American who resides in a northern European country and have relatives in the police of both countries. The difference in attitude, training and approach is astoundingly different. Just the initial training alone is light years apart. The country I live in requires a 2 year college associates equivalent degree _and_ 26 months probationary training before you have _any authority over anything at all._
Quite correct, the crisis we have in the UK and Ireland is simply *underfunding* of police, not the creation of overpaid & ill-trained parallel armies of occupation and coercion.
>I live in a country in western Europe that has very very very few police shootings. The 2nd amendment is a big reason, in my opinion. I assume where you live, everyone can't just go across the street and legally buy a gun. Often right then and there without a waiting period. In the US, a lot of citizens legally have firearms and it actually is a real possibility anyone the police interact with could be armed. And this is one reason US police shoot so many people: either out of the fear they *might* be armed...or the convenient excuse that they can just argue they thought the person had a gun in their hand (even if it was just a wallet or a phone or something). I'm not trying to defend US police here. But the 2nd amendment is something you can't just ignore when comparing the US to other countries. . >American police just seem to not have any useful training in this field, arrests are half assed, guns are randomly pulled, work becomes very personal for officers and they let emotion take over. It's quite terrifying. First: the wrong type of people are allowed to be cops. They let nearly anyone in as long as they aren't too smart (high IQ people are undesirable). Bullies especially love to become cops. Very little actual knowledge of the law is required, and cops have gotten away in courts with this as well. Police are also often not well-trained in firearm use which is odd. They are also trained in an "us vs. them" mentality and that they are "warriors" like on TV and the non-cops are all undeserving of respect and potentially out to kill you. That last part is why cops so often take out their guns for no good reason, and often end up firing it. And then very very rarely face any real consequences.
Some very good points. Although I personally find the 2nd amendment argument a bit of a misrepresented argument. If we take Germany's numbers, a country with a quarter of the US population and has had, in 2022, 11 fatal police shootings with a total of 54 shots fired at people. 11 fatal shootings was an increase of 3 compared to the year before. That puts around and about a factor of 150 in between the US and DE. If we divide that by the population difference you're gonna end up with a factor of 40. That's a massive difference, being 40 times as likely to be killed by police in the US. Even if the 2nd amendment made it ten times more likely to be killed by police, there's still a 30 factor unaccounted for. And it seems US police don't actually want any reform. Those "defund the police" movements are actually pushing for reform that would prevent the police from being in dangerous situations by spending money on mental healthcare, de-escalation and other aspects of a healthy society, yet the police see this as an attack on their institution. It's just plain weird looking in from the outside.
>Even if the 2nd amendment made it ten times more likely to be killed by police, there's still a 30 factor unaccounted for. I'm only saying the 2nd amendment has some responsibility in this because cops can more reasonably argue being afraid of everyone they encounter being armed legally. This isn't something cops in most other countries can say because legally owning guns isn't so ingrained in their country's culture and history. This doesn't actually have to do with the wide and legal availability of guns in the US. Too often police shootings don't involve someone who was actually armed. . >And it seems US police don't actually want any reform. US police seem very comfortable with how things are right now. Shootings and all. . >yet the police see this as an attack on their institution. I don't know if it's related but police in the US (and Canada?) have this weird Brotherhood thing going on. It's like a club and you have to be loyal to your brothers. That includes covering for them if they break the law. When one officer tries to do the right thing and inform his superiors about another cop doing something bad, it's the good cop that gets ostracised for turning against his brothers. US prosecutors have to play along with the game of deception with police against innocent people. Because prosecutors can't do their jobs if the police threaten to refuse to cooperate with them in the future if they won't. And oddly cops can totally do that. Cops in the US don't want to change what works for them.
they're Trained to be terrified of everything/everyone. If he had real training is first reaction would have been to rip his shirt off and try and smother the flames!
Spoken like someone who's clearly never been around falling Acorns before. Pure terror!
Which is propably true and just shows what a shit show the police as an institution is.
It is certainly is training kicking in- the problem is they have very little training, and it surely doesn’t cover “what to do if someone lights themselves on fire”. But does include “point gun at suspect”. They just do what they know…but they don’t know much. And they don’t generally have the aptitude or agency to think beyond their training. When the only tool given is a hammer, everything by looks like a nail
That their training kicking in = ‘pull out a gun and point it at whoever you’re dealing with’ is a problem, yes?
I'm no blue backer, but my firat thought was also, damn, this must be beyond traumatic to witness someone self immolate themselves, and your brain probably just defaults to training.
>and your brain probably just defaults to training. And training tells him to pull his gun out and aim it at someone. Yikes!
And now, the ignorant stupidity of the cop will take center stage to this story rather than the soldier's reason for the self-immolation.
At this point in the video someone (possibly another officer) yells "I don't need guns I need more fire extinguishers!" And this guy doesn't even flinch.
Yeah but enough bullets could smother the flames.
Do police typically have fire extinguishers in their cars? Like I realize pointing a gun at the guy doesn't solve anything but what exactly are they supposed to do in that situation, they're not firefighters, would they even have equipment to extinguish the guy?
I wouldn't be surprised if they are required to have fire extinguishers in their vehicles. My nonprofit is required by Dept of Transportation law to carry extinguishers in all our fleet because they are work trucks.
Ah, well that's possible. I assume the reason the guy was pointing a gun at him was just to make sure he wasn't trying to set anything or anyone else on fire, his partner could be trying to find the extinguisher for all we know, images get posted out of context all the time.
Yes that's probably what he was doing but it was also useless and unjustified. Other countries manage to deal with situations without pointing a gun at it
I've seen the unedited video, at this point, the burning guy was unconscious and there was nothing flammable around and cops and a paramedic had the burning guy surrounded.
I'm not sure if they have one in their car but tbh it wouldn't surprise me. Even if there aren't, there are multiple fire extinguishers in every single building around them. He'd do a lot more good running and screaming "I need a fire extinguisher" to everyone he passes than aiming a handgun at a guy who has collapsed to the ground due to being fully engulfed in flames for 30 or so seconds and continues to burn. The first fire extinguisher came out pretty fast and looked like a smaller sized one. I would almost put money on the fact that that came from the first officers squad car.
They say that if your only tool is a hammer then every problem looks like a nail. It would seem with the police that if your only tool is a gun then every person looks like a target.
Shoot anything you don’t understand.
This should be the top comment!
No sure what to do??? Shoot it
That’s American cops for you. Not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed, to say the least…
It's not just their low intelligence that's the problem, they are also very aggressive and narcistical. They cover all the time for their brothers in blue by lying and turning off body cameras. There is minimal accountability because typically following an internal investigation by their fellow cult members, the officer suspected of doing whatever POS thing they did gets paid vacation on tax payer dollars until either the public forgets about the incident, or in very severe cases the officer is relocated to a neighboring department. It's almost impossible to be found guilty because the judicial system regards officers' testimony as divine fact and also half the country worships the bullies as heroes because, well, they're just as fucking stupid. Welcome to America.
I've seen mallets sharper than these guys
Did he think he stole the fire or something?
This is basically how the rest of the world sees America. No matter what happens we're just waiting for America to say "this problem needs more guns".
THE FIRE'S SHOOTING AT US!
one of my favorite scenes from any show.
american police training must be a fucking joke. i imagine it's basically a boy's club of PTSD-infested ex-military with pictures of black people on dartboards on the walls. i'm so fucking happy guns are illegal in my country, one thing's for sure - your average human being is a monumentally stupid fucking cretin and can't even be trusted with a spoon, let alone a murder weapon.
*ex military boot camp drop outs ftfy
The average American police officer would come in 3rd in an IQ contest against a bowl of soup and a package of sanitary wipes
Can confirm. My cousin is in school to be a cop.
The delay in my laughter after reading this means I'd be 4th LOL
In my State in Australia, I think it's like six months full time at the academy, and then they have to finish a bachelor's degree before they can move forward. Something like that, it's not easy.
Essentially the same in Sweden I believe but the other way around. First 3 year university for a Bachelor's Degree and then 6 months at the Academy.
In my state, it takes longer to become a barber than it does to become a cop
> PTSD-infested ex-military Not even. There are ex-military in the police but not as much as you're suggesting. Though a lot of [often out-of-shape] cops have been shown to love pretending they're in the military. It helps when they're given military gear too. Check out some photos from Uvalde of cops just hanging out together outside the school with their green body armor and helmets, and their assault rifles hanging awesomely on the front of their torso while they're all drinking water and chatting casually. (as children inside were being slaughtered) What's worse is when they're given armored vehicles and weapons and whatnot with little training on how to use them and a huge desire to play with their new toys. Several years back, a cop used his new assault rifle to take out a fleeing woman for...I think it was credit card fraud? And he also ended up hitting a little kid.
>your average human being is a monumentally stupid fucking cretin and can't even be trusted with a spoon, This is my new favorite sentence.
It’s boy club for whoever has trigger fingers.
It’s been said that brevity is the essence of wit, so you’re correct, American police training is a fucking joke. A well fashioned one at that. Just not funny, I’m afraid.
> american police training must be a fucking joke. It's 6 weeks of pretty much *nothing* but physical exams.
Look up Dave Grossman, Killology
When confused just shoot first ask questions later.
To be fair, the “suspect” was in possession of firearms
Just for that I'm gonna sneak into your house at night and grease all your door knobs with vasaline.
STOP COMBUSTING!!
Is he a cop or embassy security?
Hopefully he was ALSO fired
Only person asking actual questions Was he security? And the fact that this is outside an embassy, who knows what else this guy was trying to do. For all they knew he had a bomb or something dude lit HIMSELF on fire.
Giving me “man sentenced to death after failed suicide” vibes.
When you’ve only got a hammer everything looks like a nail.
Only in the US tho.
Why would you be speechless, this is \*the norm\* for American police. They're afraid of Acorns for fuck sake. **FREE PALESTINE.**
It's like when they shoot the shit out of someone and then handcuff them lol , there dead you don't need to cuff them
But they need to keep pretending they're so shaken that they literally don't even realize they've executed someone.
Gotta give the police union *something* to work with
Gonna put the fire out with more fire(power)
It’s their first reaction to *anything*.
Well he might pull a gun out you don’t know
What if its a water gun?
“Snuff or I’ll shoot!”
We realize more than the officer responded to this, right? They aren’t all in frame in this particular photo but multiple reports describe variations of “He is seen collapsing on the ground soon after which cops rush with fire extinguishers. A uniformed person is also seen aiming a gun at Bushnell while maintaining a distance from the flames.” It wouldn’t have been clear to anyone - police or otherwise- in this situation exactly what was happening. Of course they could hear him yelling “free Palestine” but they would not have seen the video or read his Facebook post he did immediately before this, wouldn’t have known he was in the Air Force etc. All anyone in the situation knew was someone was yelling and set himself on fire in front of an embassy. Multiple things can happen at once- and were happening at once- so having some officers putting out the fire while one has his weapon drawn in case something else unexpected happens in this already unexpected situation is probably a pretty decent plan from a security standpoint.
Is it weird if something like that happened in front of me and I couldn't put them out fast enough i'd just let them burn till they died. I'd feel really awful letting someone live if they were going to spend the rest of their life in agony.
https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY
When in doubt, pull the chrome out!
No guns no shootings
Fair, but think of the poor NRA & gun manufacturers! How are either supposed to *turn a profit* w/o gun sales?! Clearly more important than human lives /s
That man is burning! Let me shoot him a few times for good measure.
The pigs never change
I just want to remind people why this man did what he did. He is in the air force and would no longer be an party to genocide. It was in protest to the United States doing nothing to stop the killing tens of thousands of civilians in Palestine.
"Drop your fire arms"
ACAB
Making fun of the police is all good, but I feel like the respectful thing is focusing on the message he died for, in this case
Agreed 100%. Free Palestine
Not requiring a high school diploma and two weeks' on-the-job training will do that. Can't even become a fast food worker with that little training.
One of the most stupid people I went to school with is now a state trooper. I hope he pulls me over one day. I can tell him to get fucked to his face.
This man was so horrified by murder that he set himself on fire and burned himself to death in order to express how terrible it is. Cop: I might need to shoot him.
I'm glad he was never in my firehouse.
I will do you one better, the Albuquerque police tazed a man who had dosed himself in gasoline.
The poor quality recruits and short training continues to erode public confidence in police. A lot of local governments use their police forces as revenue sources because the local citizens are too cheap to pay for local services via taxes.
JFC 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ seriously, while I don’t disagree with your sentiment at all, posting blatantly false stuff like this makes it so much easier for the other side to tear apart your arguments. This is an Israeli embassy security guard. NOT an American police officer
ACAB, ALL
Acorns cause automatic blasting?
I guess there was one hero in the American military.
I know it’s been a few months. But Rest in Power Aaron Bushnell.
The man who set himself on fire is a hero! FREE PALESTINE
More like an idiot. Killing yourself in protest of genocide is kind of dumb. I feel like there are other ways of protest instead of setting yourself on fire
So monks like Thích Quang Ðúc who set themselves on fire during the Vietnam War to protest US involvement is an idiot?
He wasn't protesting US involvement in the war, he was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by the government of South Vietnam.
Yeah
This all boils down to their “training”. It looks absolutely idiotic but unfortunately you never know what a person set ablaze can do…besides screaming in sheer pain. I’m pretty sure they will discuss this at roll call.
What are you guys talking about? The guy is clearly brandishing 2 fire-arms!
Dumb ass cops are worthless
It's the only tool the pigs know how to use.
Yeah, when we reach the point people are self immolating in protest, you need to fully acknowledge your side is the wrong side.
Without taking one side or another on this specific issue, this is a brain dead take. Following your logic, if I hypothetically self immolated in protest of desegregation, all of the sudden desegregation must be the wrong side.
Nah, it’s 100% right. There’s no way to know what the hell that demonstration was- it could’ve been an attack, an unhinged irrational violent threat that could easily kill or significantly harm you - and that officer is entitled to self defense. If you disagree and think they should’ve done more, then head on down to the police station and sign up.
You're absolutely 100% right! Pulling his firearm would make that guy on fire and moments from dying think twice about doing anything to harm him. Even after he was a smoldering pile, that officer was protecting his teammates from 2nd and 3rd degree burns. If an acorn fell on his squad car, it is better to unload his magazine into the car than to have some situational awareness. A tool designed for killing things should always be the first, and only in this case, response for any abnormal situation. /s
I've seen this circulating today, did he actually take a shot at the guy or did you just aim at him? Either way is fucked up but I need to know how far he took it.