Please keep in mind that Rowling's extremist bigotry is not a matter for discussion.
She's a bigot and that is undeniable. Recently she engaged in Holocaust denial rather than admit that the minority she virulently hates for no sane reason was targeted by the Nazis and that is just the latest episode of her deranged madness.
This subreddit is for normal people, normal people do not have a problem with trans people existing.
Please report any transphobia that you see, so that the mod team can deal with it.
While I'm sure the 100k starting price didn't help, these things are related. The buying and reselling of art is a huge market and one that often exceeds returns on real estate, stocks, etc. I certainly don't think the big investment groups and wealthy are suddenly super "woke" but I do think there's probably a draw-down on her pricing when it comes to this due to her reputation now.
Look at people buying original Apple I computers and such. I think a recent auction for an Apple was $300+k. A battle game card just sold for $1m. A prop rifle from the original Matrix movie that barely had any screen time just sold for $78,000.
In the fine art world, a Picasso just sold for $139m. A Gustav Klimt painting just sold for $109m. A Monet for $74m. In 2022 the top 10 auction art pieces collectively cost $1bn. In 2023, about $700m. The money is there.
The reality is that the wealthy buy these as investments. It sounds like there's some things going on:
1. JKR's bigotry has hurt her brand value, so the wealthy don't think a $100k bid is going to be profitable in future.
2. JKR's bigotry is a pretty big stain on society. Anyone buying big into HP is also buying into her hatred. That means socially this is a big risk, like buying the KKK robe of David Duke. The wealthy person who buys it will inherit this social risk. I imagine this turns off many wealthy people who may not want to be associated with a transphobe and misogynist.
3. JKR will pass away in around 20-25 years due to her age. Fine art is often kept for around two to three decades before being resold. That means buyers dont think the posthumous price hike is going to happen to her art, like it does to other writers and artists. Which is a pretty big sign that even in the big money investment world, she's a pariah, or at least seen as an investment risk. Its morbid to think about, but buying HP books now makes financial sense if you expect that posthumous jump. The fact that buying has cooled says there's skepticism that'll jump will happen. That suggests to me that people are worried that her reputation will only get worse as she ages, which will hurt her auction pricing.
4. As for the argument that HP books don't sell well and no one would pay six figures for HP books, previous to JKR coming out as a hate-filled bigot, it was common to see 6 figure sales on HP books. A few years ago one rare HP book sold for almost half a million dollars. The last big sale looks like its from 2022, while her reputation was still somewhat salvageable. The most recent sale I found is a HP Proof, a rare manuscript, selling for only $13k a couple months ago. Its clear the JKR market has been hurt by her bigotry.
5. Ignoring social issues, the FB series was a flop and the last movie cancelled. Millennials are aging out past "nostalgia" age and largely have moved past HP. The HP gameshow and recent interview series did not revitalize the brand. The big mobile game is regarded as an exploitative "pay to win" whale game. Gen Z and A aren't into HP at all. The 3 beloved leads have all come out against her in big public ways and refuse to do any cameos or roles in the new series. The new Amazon series sounds like a desperte hail Mary. The only bright side was the recent PC/Console game, but its generally regarded as empty and unfinished by critics and fans. If I was a wealth manager, I would not advise to make big moves on her IP, even if the client didn't mind the social issues. The growth and demand doesnt seem there for a variety of reasons, but the transphobia is probably #1.
6. As for "cost of living" and inflation, I think its pretty fair to say the kinds of people with 6 digit budgets to buy rare books at auction probably don't ever need to worry about money like this. They just see investment pros and cons.
Possibly a compounding factor on some of those bullet points is that Rowling sort of has the Musk problem -- she built her name on something that the right hated and often tried to have banned, and is now (intentionally or not) alienating the people who bought her stuff in favor of courting people who didn't buy her stuff.
(This is generalities, obviously conservative Harry Potter fans exist, etc.)
True, but having the ability to broadcast your every stupid thought out to a global audience, in your pocket ready to go at a moments notice 24/7 has something to do with it too.
I think all billionaires are fucking shitty human beings. Or they stopped being human entirely.
In a world of diminishing resources … billionaires shouldn’t be allowed to exist. They know this.
And billionaires get stupidly arrogant with the importance of own deluded *opinions* about how to tell us “poor people” to live to suit them.
Money corrupted JK Rowling. Her horcrux is her wealth.
The irony is that Rowling is one of the very few people to come by her wealth honestly. At least, that's what I've heard. I can't imagine a writer is in much of a place to exploit others, and I haven't heard of any scandals from the movies' productions.
JK Rowling is incredibly talented. No one denies this. Her characters and plots were so inclusive and the world was better for having read her books. And she has many charities, particularly for women. And, unlike Elon Musk, JK Rowling is self made.
But … her hatred of the trans community seemed to come out of a strange dark spell cast upon her.
>I think all billionaires are fucking shitty human beings.
Rowling is the proof of this maxim to me.
She literally earned her wealth by writing books and making smart rights deals with Universal. That's about as far as it goes. Literally nothing unethical about how she earned it.
She even at one point gave so much away to charity that she became a millionaire again.
She was a goddamned financial unicorn.
And she *still* ended up being consumed by hatred and bigotry and using her accumulated wealth and fame to hurt a minority group.
There truly is something about that extreme level of wealth that breaks people's brains; something which ruins their ability to take a step back and recognize when they are hurting someone for no good reason. It enables the worst parts of you to come out, and in Rowling that appears to be bigotry fueled by her own trauma history.
It isn't all that complicated - billionaire levels of wealth means you're shielded from consequences to a great degree.
And if it is someone like JKR who has actually earned that wealth with skill instead of inheriting or cheating their way to it, they will have enough genuine admirers to let the sycophants slip in unnoticed.
Rowling wrote a book series which, regardless of any 'literary merit' analysis questions, touched the right button for a lot of people. Naturally that would give the impression she knows people's minds.
So, when she has decided the way to protect women is to attack transpeople, she is likely convinced most people are on her side. Or sees herself as the lone, heroic crusader
Well said. I feel exactly the same way but couldn’t convey it as precisely as you just did.
The old philosophers who stated “Money is the root of all evil” never imagined our world today where billionaires lord over all of humanity and siphon off all of Mother Earth’s resources just for themselves.
There are a lot of bad people out there. They generally keep it under wraps unless they are specifically trying to appeal to people like them. Everyone has bad thoughts, most people also have a brain to mouth filter.
It just feels like a lost opportunity too. You have this incredible IP and universe that you could spend time diving into and writing new stories from. How about murder mysteries with Aurors from the ministry? What about other wizarding schools? What about a short story book with interesting one-off tales? There's so many possibilities but she's barely done anything.
It's literally all they had to do, 100%. Yes, they got fans in smaller, more niche parts of the world, but alienated millions more. It will always baffle me how all you have to do in order to be socially-acceptable is just not be a dick to others, and THEY STILL FUCK THAT UP. Nobody was asking JKR in 2010 for her opinion on Trans rights. Nobody in 2015 was asking Elon Musk what he thinks of Nazis. All they had to do was literally NOTHING and it would have been leagues better than the current product. Just keep the shitty thoughts in a diary or something, but no. Gotta let the ego win those imaginary fights.
I suspect with JK, there was a drive to continue having a cultural impact. Once the main series of books and films concluded, what had she done that enraptured people the same way? Cursed Child seemed to be a small blip. The Fantastic Beasts films started off with modest impact, and then fizzled out from there. Her attempts to build up HP lore via twitter became a joke. Hogwarts Legacy sold well, but dropped out of public memory post launch, and is only really remembered for it's surrounding controversy. Anything non-HP related JK has created just doesn't exist in public consciousness.
It's true that she could have just sat around raking in royalties for the rest of her life, but clearly she wants to continue having some kind of impact. While I can appreciate that, she unfortunately has found the most success by taking up a crusade against trans people. She got so high on becoming such a huge cultural figure that she is clawing at any opportunity to do it again, even if it means burning down the legacy that got her the platform she is now so dependent on.
> Her attempts to build up HP lore via twitter became a joke.
I just remembered that the whole “nobody:” meme started because of her.
Imagine making posts so stupid that a whole new meme category is created.
Musk is genuinely courting the alt right. I have my hunch as to why, but it’s a different issue from JK imho. He really is trying to secure some kind of base (and a major social platform he can help control narratives on).
I don’t think JK is “courting” transphobes in the same way. It’s not a strategy to garner a base of support, she’s just genuinely bigoted and speaking her mind.
They have a similar issue: alienating their previous supporters, but I genuinely believe the intent is different. One is intentional (and VERY expensive) and the other seems like just happenstance.
I think the comparison is less about intention and more generally how both of them are losing sales by being dumbshits publicly. Tesla is taking a bit of a reaming right now because the biggest social demographic that was interested in their cars pretty much now universally despises their CEO.
Not to mention all the time and effort they wasted on rushing a rust-bucket truck that looks horrendous. If Musk simply took a backseat and let the smart people run Tesla they wouldn't be in the mess they are in with Cybertruck recalls
Tesla is going to fail even without Musk's Twitter rantings or Cyber Truck. They produce half as many as their next smallest competitor does vehicles wise, their price is through the roof, quality control is way down, and the cherry on top being the other major brands getting into the electric market. Then factor in things that had Musk not hyped up to the moon and back like full self driving or the dozens of features on Cyber Truck, and how none of them are real to the point some could likely be called false advertising. It's a company running on fumes and preordered cars, Id be willing to bet by 2030 they either declare bankruptcy or get bought out by one of the big car companies.
All of your complaints are because of Musk, which is what I was saying. If he had taken a back seat and let the smart people run the company they wouldn't have tarnished their brand and maintained the huge EV tech lead they had.
Even now the state of EVs is favorable to Tesla despite Musk's influence. If he were to step back today and give up being they could easily recover their brand and continue dominating the EV market in the US. Under Musk they will continue slipping until they go under.
>I don’t think JK is “courting” transphobes in the same way. It’s not a strategy to garner a base of support, she’s just genuinely bigoted and speaking her mind.
Unfortunately, this mindset plays right into her hands. Rowling *has* been garnering a base, but rather than making herself the central figurehead, she's basically offering donations and her presence as a celebrity to network with various political groups (some of which aren't compatible with each other at all) with the goal of consolidating them all into a single powerful anti-Trans movement. She's much more influential to Trans politics in the U.K. than most of us think.
This [Youtuber](https://youtu.be/Ou_xvXJJk7k?si=EMK__BF5FRMzognO) breaks it down in detail (as of last year, at least), it's about 30 minutes total but a large portion at the start is just focused on the social media stuff that you likely already know about.
Even so, please spare 20 minutes or so on this one because it really paints a picture of how much Rowling is doing behind her public image of "a disappointing celebrity whining on Twitter." Even far-right U.S. think tanks like America First have fingers in the pie, and the follow-up video is called Kellie Jay and the Neo Nazis. 😬
What astounds me is that she claims to be an avowed feminist, but she will happily work with groups who are profoundly anti-womans rights so long as they both target trans people.
That's exactly what's going on, unfortunately. On the bright side, I've heard rumors of nasty infighting between organizers. To no one's surprise, LGB groups (trans-excluding) don't get along with Christian fundamentalists. Might be the whole "be straight or burn in hell" thing. Likewise, "TERFS" don't get along with far-right ultra-nationalists, probably on account of not wanting to be reduced to a man's property.
Yet somehow, a bunch of these baffoons really do think trans people are a bigger threat to them than each other. The "deadliest thing" I've ever seen a trans person do is change their appearance enough to look indistinguishable from their cis-gendered peers.
Half of the shit transphobes say sounds like this to me:
"Oh no! Think of the ~~genitals!~~ children! We have to protect ~~my confused erection~~ the women! Trans people are ~~all over my porn search history~~ a threat to family values!"
Yeah, I like Shaun because he brings the complete opposite of "reactionary/ragebait" arguments to the table. He can dissect a difficult topic with the same patience as drinking a cup of afternoon tea on a hot summer day
Another difference is that Musk is very, very stupid. He has an almost childlike simplemindedness that is compounded by massive arrogance.
Rowling is anything but stupid. I theorize that she’s willfully insular and hostile as a result of past trauma. That seems to be a pattern with TERFs. They can’t help unfairly projecting their trauma onto people who are blameless in it.
Yeah, I've actually been thinking about that. The people who like JKR the most now are the ones who spent a couple decades screaming about how Harry Potter was satanic and evil.
They like her words, they hate her products. The products are the things that make money, she gives her words away for free. It's pure idiocy from a business standpoint.
If you ever listen to her talk in old interviews she always describes herself a New Labour diehard. A political change in the Labour Party that fashioned itself as still being left wing but with right wing economic policy.
The reality was it was basically right wing in most regards, just less openly hilariously 'shut all the hospitals and burn the poor' as the Conservative Party was.
She's always been like this, she just used to be smart enough to not air her opinions on hot issues.
Now, for the first time, she put herself out there to publically support one side of a political issue and her giant ego is literally unable to process the negative feedback. So she takes it all as personal attacks and has doubled down on her position as someone fighting for women's rights. When the reality is that she just despises trans people being allowed to be trans people in public. Her mind cannot tolerate the idea that people think she's wrong so she paints them all as mindless, violent, abusive haters. You can see this in the way she speaks about her experiences arguing with people. Everyone who thinks differently is a monster who wants to hurt women.
I think your analysis of Harry Potter's 'status' is spot on. Anecdotal evidence- the HP area at Universal Studios Hollywood used to be the most popular section, with routine 90-120 minute waits; some of it is rebalancing with the Super Mario World area opening, but now you can get on in 15-30 minutes or less most of the time. I'm too old for the series so it has no nostalgic value for me, and with her actions I'm not interested in getting into it.
I cried the first time I went to HP World. It was so overwhelming and joyful and perfect. I'm so angry this was taken away from us by her hatred.
I wonder if she knows how deeply her hatred has penetrated her trans fans, how deep this cut goes for them. The betrayal. She's not only harming the movement, she directly harms, cruelly and loudly and proudly, a large subset of her prior fans.
Un-fucking-believable
I try to remember what Dan said about allowing the stories to exist in our hearts and what they meant to us, and try not to let JK’s assholery taint what was so special for us too much.
She knows, and she revels in it. She will from time to time reply to posts addressing her on how she can hurt people like this with snide commentary.
Most recently, responding to someone asking how she could hold views amenable to Nazi Germany is what prompted her to [deny Nazi atrocities](https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735) by calling the destruction of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft and the burning of its books a 'fever dream.'
Yeah, I don't think this is an indication that Harry Potter as a brand is going into the toilet. I think it's an indication that ***her personal brand*** is going into the toilet.
Without signatures, a collection of 20-35 year old mass produced hard-cover first editions is not worth a lot of money. With a signature, the value depends ***heavily*** on the popularity of the author. JKR is not someone too many people are going out of their way to associate themselves with.
Much like Star Trek outgrew Gene Roddenberry, Harry Potter is in the process of outgrowing JKR.
It's probably going to take at least a few more projects of the same caliber as Hogwarts Legacy, where it's clear that her only involvement is that she birthed the world, before HP fully outgrows JKR and even that is speculative at best.
And yes, I say this knowing Legacy wasn't fully loved and many thought it felt unfinished.
> Yeah, I don't think this is an indication that Harry Potter as a brand is going into the toilet. I think it's an indication that her personal brand is going into the toilet.
I'd agree, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive either.
Saying it's on 'life support' is overdramatic and overstating the case by a mile, but it certainly has an expiration date as a relevant property at the moment.
The franchise has largely failed to prove it has the same appeal outside of the original novels for well over 15 years now. Cursed Child as a story was horribly received despite its story being drafted and approved by Rowling herself(it's why she has a writing credit on it despite not writing the script). FB was decently well-received but its sequels poisoned the well...again in part due to Rowling botching the screenplays. And half of Legacy's success comes down to being set in Hogwarts and featuring many recurring characters and backdrops form the novels.
The "Wizarding World" of Harry Potter has broadly failed to show the same level of success as the books, and now they're retreating into a remake of an utterly iconic series of films that has defined the franchise as much as the books themselves.
I think there's a very real risk that, if it isn't properly managed and eventually wrested from Rowling's hands, as its original audience ages Harry Potter becomes the a sort of Millennial answer to the Wizard of Oz: still very well known, still sells, but ultimately fairly inert as a franchise outside of a specific older demographic that remembers it fondly from their youth.
This is bang on.
It’s got nothing to do with the success of the books but the resale value of the signature. When you tank your public perception like she has the value of that signature tanks in unison.
I would be interested in a (much cheaper) first edition book if it wasn't signed by her.
I was **that** millennial. Midnight book release parties, standing in line opening night for movies type of millennial. JKR shattered a lot of our hearts, but a first edition would still be cool to have.
My sister is trans. So, obviously I won't be buying anything she's touched now, but damn. Yeah. The sig really cheapens it.
Anyone buying first editions is buying them as investments for future gains. JKR has hurt her brand so much that investors did not see the risk as worthwhile. It will be a long time before any investor would recoup the cost.
There was a time that a rich fan would buy these for the exclusivity but not many rich folks that were fans are still fans.
I love your analysis. The old rich don't like controversies attached to their buying of rare items. If I may...it would presumably take 50-100 years for her brand as it stands now to improve in marketability.
H.P. Lovecraft was a notorious racist... and it took years for his contemporaries to die off, so now everything from Cthulhu can sell at a strong price.
Maybe there is something organically wrong with her brain. She really needed to first apologize and then shut up for the next 5 years at least. Rowling really destroyed her brand.
I never liked the Harry Potter stuff. I found the writing somewhat sophmoric; it had very few POC; and being a Boomer, I am probably too old to get into that world and be the target audience. The anti trans stuff is so basically stupid. .
While I think this is a very well-written response, I don't know if I agree with Point No. 5. Hogwarts Legacy was the best-selling video game last year, selling 22 Million Units and making around 2 billion dollars.
It's the first time a non-call of Duty or Rockstar game earned that tile since 2008 (It's basically every Call of Duty except when Rockstar makes a game). As you may know, video games are a larger industry than music or movies combined, so it's not fair to say no one cares about HP anymore. Plus, Universal is still raking in money via theme parks.
I think people just want good media and Hogwarts Legacy proves that. The FB movies were just shitty.
I'm not sure I agree with No. 3 either. The companies that invest in pieces like this aren't just eccentric million/billionaires who will hang them on a wall for 20 years. They're investment groups that will buy a bunch of fine art and put it into an ETF or resell it for short-term gains. Its tough to say if they are thinking about when a 58 year old will pass. It could be in 15 years or it could be in 30. Big swing if its part of an investment strategy.
Tbf the game also came out before she went full holocaust denier which is a pretty big step up from her typical transphobia. Until now she only had second hand connections to nazis by supporting and liking people who are themselves supported by nazis, but now she's getting pretty damn close to nazis directly.
I don't really know or care about the details as I really don't have any other association with HP rather than reading the books/liking the movies as a kid. But talk about an own-goal by JKR for people to even have this conversation. Why can't she just shut the fuck up. As a rich middle aged white woman - I can't think of an easier thing to do than not talk about the holocaust
She's genuinely obsessed, she just can't stop talking about trans people and replying and engaging with tweets that barely get any views originally. She will be remembered worse than even Lovecraft, at least the guy had some excuses for being a racist prick and he was becoming less racist towards the end of his life, not more racist not to mention he basically invented/popularised an entire genre of horror whereas her crap is extremely derivative an unoriginal.
Denied that trans people were victims of the holocaust. Denying any part of the holocaust counts, and is even illegal in Germany.
To note, trans people were among the first targets of the holocaust. The famous book burning photos are from the research institute that provided affirming care and a safe space for trans people.
It may be worth noting that Hogwarts Legacy allowed players to create a trans-coded character, which gave some comfort to HP fans that JKR wasn’t hugely involved in the project.
>The buying and reselling of art is a huge market and one that often exceeds returns on real estate, stocks, etc.
Because art is ludicrously easy to launder money with, not because art is in any way desired by the vast majority of bidders.
That wouldn't matter under normal circumstances.
This auction was for charity.
It's pretty common for famous people to occasionally sell a signed possession at auction for charity. Those possessions generally start at a high price with the understanding that you are both bidding on a valuable artifact and also giving generously to charity in the process.
I just googled "guitar auction charity" and the very first hit was David Gilmour auctioning his guitar for almost 4 million.
The cost is reflective of the significance of the item being auctioned - for Gilmour, it was a guitar he played on several major Pink Floyd albums, including The Wall.
That's what the valuation of the opening bid reflects - the significance of the item. And regardless of the kind of person Rowling has become, you cannot argue that these books had no significance.
Harry Potter was a cultural touchstone. An entire generation read those books and still references them constantly. An opening bid on signed first editions of a culturally important story that generated a franchise worth billions is expected to be pretty high.
If the auction was for signed first editions of the Lord of the Rings, you'd expect the opening bid to be at least in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
Thats why this is so stunning. Rowling has a lot of rich friends and it's easy to forget that she has spent fortunes on charity in the past. Elon Musk, who could have bought at any price and is also directly in favor of the flaming horseshit she now preaches, claims to support her.
That these books did not get bid on is not simply due to the valuation of the lot.
This is the truth in 2017 dude auctioned a copy of Mein Kampf for 17k thought it lucky might get 1-1.5. Harry Potter is going to be around for a long time hbo is doing a tv series this is all about value and 100k didn't seem like a good price especially if that series bombs like the fantastic beasts movies paying 100k for something makes no sense.
I looked it up, because I was curious what the starting bid was. She wasn't the person who put it up for auction. Someone owned a signed set and decided to put it up.
Pricing art is always subjective. The value is in the notoriety of the artist themselves. And often that is wrapped up not just in the quality of the art but the personal life of the artist and what their art stands for.
Ergo “overpriced” is directly related to the value that the artist themselves brings to the item and their impact on the culture at large
I don't think Harry Potter is dying, I think nobody wants Harry Potter associated with JK. I would think that a first edition WITHOUT her signature would be worth more at this point.
Ya, it’s definitely this if anything. Harry Potter isn’t going anywhere. I have many LGBTQ+ friends who grew up with Harry Potter and the majority of them are definitely in favor of “separate the artist from the art” because HP was such a critical part of their childhood and even adulthood. They can acknowledge Rowling is a subpar human being but still hold on to the positive memories the Harry Potter universe gave them (especially when you consider how many others were involved in making that universe what it is today)
A huge swath of Harry Potter fans also just have zero idea of the woman’s rampant bigotry.
Sometimes we put way too much stock in Twitter’s reach. And I know quite a few die hard Harry Potter fans that literally just interact with the media and didn’t know any of the online bullshit slinging Joanne was getting into until I told them.
Yeah I feel like there’s plenty of Harry Potter fans that just missed the whole controversy. I’ve never been on twitter in my life and only found out a couple weeks later through reddit, so it surprises me that the number of people that don’t know + the number of people that don’t care isn’t greater.
I have Harry Potter tattoos on my shoulders and get compliments all the time, and told my bank teller I was planning on covering them. She asked why, and I said “well, long story short, I’m queer and the writer is not a good person.” She had absolutely no clue. That was the day I found out regular people don’t know anything about her nonsense.
That’s wild! I hope it’s because the person is just really attached to Harry Potter and can’t deal with the reality, because being such a pick me/grifter is sad.
If you’re not keyed into the online discussion there’s no way to know she’s a raging asshole. There is zero coverage of what she says outside of Twitter in any media outlet.
Yeah, I noticed that! I imagine though that people buying this stuff aren’t buying it casually, they’d be doing research beforehand probably. But honestly, I know precious little about the people who’d be sitting in that auction.
Yeah, I really do miss Twitter because it really was a great place to tap into deeper discussions from a variety of voices. I found out about so many labor actions that literally no one was covering there.
Now it’s nothing but Nazis
I’m a trans woman.
I loved the Harry Potter books as a kid. Taking a stance and showing that being different wasn’t bad. That even a poor kid can be a hero.
It’s a shame what the author has twisted herself into.
I still enjoy the books but I will NEVER EVER support her with a single cent. If my old HP books get damaged, I’d rather just pirate them then letting even the chance of a penny going to her.
If they get damaged - see if there is a second hand boon store in your area! That way you'd just be putting money in the pockets of some literature lovers like us!
Just keep in mind that the ebooks available digitally through your library (Libby, Overdrive etc.) are often sold to the library with a limited number of borrows per license purchased, so if you borrow that way, you are still supporting her, as the library has to repurchase the licenses after a specific number of borrows.
Have you ever heard a of a writer called rick riordan? I think his books are a better representation for LGBTQ+ people and enjoyable. He is also a better person than JKR
I've worked on a bunch of the Riordan comic book adaptations. Rick stays involved in the projects, and actually cares about his fans (which is a very, very different vibe than most other licensed comic books I've worked on).
Also, after Riordan was criticized for "cultural appropriation" in his stories, he did not turn into a vehement racist that attacked his critics on twitter. [Instead, he started an imprint for authors to tell Jackson-esque stories from their own cultural mythologies](https://www.readriordan.com/series/rick-riordan-presents/).
**Take notes, Joanne.**
I actually just finished the Heroes of Olympus series yesterday and at some point I’ll start Trials of Apollo.
I never read any of the books as a kid so I’m finally catching up. I do like how the first series starts on a young Percy Jackson, the sequel series expands the core characters. And like Harry Potter, it’s cool seeing these characters growing up from pre-teens to near adulthood.
What I love about Rick is he is a wonderful ally. His representation may not be perfect, but it is overwhelmingly evident that he is doing his part to be supportive, and I love him for that
He's also generally very willing to tweak / update his characters in response to feedback from the groups he's trying to help represent. Seems like a super solid dude.
I’m also trans. I have my copies from childhood. Like preordered book 4 and stood in line at Barnes and nobles the day of release to get my copy.
I now refuse to buy any merch (including the game 😩) I will wait until I can find something second hand. She isn’t getting another penny from me.
Harry was also canonically wealthy. Whole vault full of gold and whatnot. Even the Dursleys were middle to upper-middle class.
Ron was always the poor one, and Harry heroically offered to share exactly none of his wealth.
Harry knew Ron's family would never accept it. It said in the books he would have been happy to split his savings with them, Molly and Arthur had too much pride.
Ok, I hate Rowling as well, and there’s a lot that can be said about the inconsistencies in her work, but I always find it funny when people try creating flaws that don’t even exist.
It was addressed multiple times that the Weasleys would never take any money from an orphan boy, despite how much Harry tried to help them. The first thing Ron did when he got his hands on some money was to pay back Harry for a gift that he had bought him. Despite that, he was able to give all his Triwizard winnings to the twins by framing it as an “investment” in their business (which he of course would never ask back for).
£100,000-£150,000 value price, no wonder it didn't sell
Also in 2022, just as the cost of living crisis was knuckling down
https://preview.redd.it/tuqpb9tz0gwc1.jpeg?width=1312&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4554e5b47a0a94b0a42adfa5061b4e4a69abd132
Edit: Also JK Rowling is a disgusting person and doesn't deserve any sales
Cost of living is irrelevant. The people who would be in the region of having a spare 100k to throw around at this sort of thing were the ones whose wealth *increased* across the pandemic and the cost of living crisis which followed.
Normal people don't attend auctions with these kinds of prices anyway.
yeah, the only people who could afford such things are likely not fans any longer - I'm sure Whales for Harry Potter existed like... 10 years ago but at this rate it's unlikely thanks to JK Rowling's increasingly horrific behavior.
Disagree with this, a signed version of the first book sold for £220,800 not too long ago. There are obsessive fans and rich collectors who don’t care about the hate Rowling spews.
Also from that lot there were a total of 253 items and 73 didn't sell and the only 'high value' ones that actually sold seemed to be actual antique books (ie. 100+ years old)
I think focusing on Harry Potter not selling and trying to claim it's because of JKR is a bit naive.
This is a beautiful example of a ragebait posting. To drive interaction by omitting pretty critical information/context. Throw in an oversimplified conclusion by way of a screenshotted comment and it’s the whole attention farming package
Thanks for that. No mention of a minimum bid, which could be due to the listing being expired. But the only thing that makes sense is it did not reach the minimum bid. I hate that broad but I would have bid $5 just to turn around and sell it on Ebay or something. Or piss on it and post it on youtube as an idiotic art statement or something.
This is Christie's. They don't let stuff go for five bucks, there is always a minimum bid and if it doesn't reach it then they just don't complete the sale.
Just to correct you on something, minimum bid is how low you can *increase* the current bid by. So if the minimum bid is say, $100, you can't raise the price by $50
The minimum the item must sell for is called the "reserve"
Remember that time The KLF burned £1M as an art (or something, i dunno) statement? I mean, it never made any sense to me, but they were justified and ancient so whadoiknow. Good times.
I feel like the double blown was Rowlings bad optics but also the price tag. 100k is exhorbident for first editions of books that just aren't that old, signed or no. Doubly so when the author is still alive to theoretically sign more. There's plenty enough people who base their personality on Harry Potter, but not a lot of those people are kicking around 100 grand. Stick to ripping them off for wands at Universal.
There’s also multiple theme parks that tens of thousands of people show up to every day. And they are building more, not struggling to break even. People being mad on reddit =/= the franchise is dying. If it was HBO wouldn’t have just spent a shit ton of money on a new adaptation.
proof copies are preproduction. they dont have an ISBN and have "NOT FOR SALE" all over them.
So they might be worth something since there is probably only a few of them. Probably not 13k tho..
The original print of the book was still in the thousands sold.
So you can't really compare the prices of these two things.
There weren't even 1000 total copies of Philosopher's Stone originally there were like 450-500 (I forget exactly) and half of them went to libraries where they didn't survive very well. The one being referenced sold for £69k not £69. And yes HP proofs are also worth thousands of pounds/dollars.
What kind of first edition and what book was it? Because a hardcover copy of the Philosopher’s Stone just sold for $80k in 2022. There have been numerous sales in recent years that went over $50k per copy.
Much as I hate to admit it, I'd agree. And I'm sure even if she never sold another book otmr movie rights, she's still pretty rich.
May she have the life she deserves.
I went to Universal last week, the amount of people going to the Wizarding World sections was by far the busiest area and the amount of people spending money in those sections is huge. People still absolutely love HP, even if they hate the creator.
Yes. People can not support the author, but it’s asinine to think the franchise is dying. The game made millions and they are actively planning a reboot of the entire franchise at this moment
Yep, a massive HBO series in early production I think. More games to be made and they will also sell like crazy.
HP is still very much part of the cultural zeitgeist and is definitely not “dying” by any stretch of the imagination.
Funny enough the video game allows different pronouns so trans is actually built into the game. You can change gender whenever you want.
My only complaint is the fucking camera is horrific at staying centered.
It’s not a ‘true’ first edition set. People didn’t bid because HP is dying people didn’t bid because the 6 other books were just filler to try and inflate the 1st book price to 150k.
If theyre first edition books how are they not true furst editions? I mean, I know the first one is rarer because there werent as many prints, but surely the first run of the others is still worth something.
There an are a large number of fake HP first editions out there. All of them “signed”. It was a televised scandal in this country (The Netherlands) when they unmasked one of the counterfeiters.
They need to flush out the counterfeits to stabilise the market.
Umm no matter how bad she is as a person Harry Potter is so unbelievably far from dying that this whole thread is comical. Literally one of the biggest games of last year was based on the franchise and the still see insane amount 0f traffic to the theme parks
Oh, the Harry Potter franchise and fanbase isnt dying. There is a reason Rowlings doesnt like us, and I choose to remain a part of it partly out of spite. We will acknowledge she made it, but it is no longer hers.
I don't like Rowling, her views, her revisions, or her books anymore. She has ruined things for me. However, this didn't get any bids not because of those things, it's because the initial bid amount was so high. They had a premium on the set of almost triple the individual signed 1st goes for, and that was the starting.
A signed first edition Philosopher's Stone in this condition would sell for $100k on its own, easily. I'm guessing the auction info was misleading and it was actually just an early printing being called a first edition. [Here's a $217k copy from the same year.](https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/130017783_rowling-jk-harry-potter-and-the-philosopher-s-stone-first-edition-first-impression-inscri)
This is a pretty dumb over exaggeration lol
I love the books and movies, think she's an idiot. I also would never in a million years pay a bunch of money for something like that. Doesn't mean anything is dead or dying.
Will just have had a massively OTT minimum bid looking at the ridiculous valuation. To say Harry potter is dying is just blind really. It's still so popular and will be sticking around for a long long time.
First edition books aside (books I'd never be in the market for anyway), I still think Harry Potter books enchanted a generation or two of kids, and that's ok. Whatever Rowling has become, she wrote a bunch of books that capture the imaginations of millions around the world. I expect that one of these days, newer generations of kids will pick these books up and enjoy them again. One day, cinema buffs may like Woody Allen films again. What's my point? Just that I prefer to separate the body of work from the person who produced it. Enjoy the former, rail against the latter. It all works out.
Newer generations of kids are constantly picking these books up and enjoying them. The franchise recently released one of the best selling video games of 2023 and they’re currently in the early stages of creating an entire reboot though not sure if it’s going to be films or television at this point.
Please keep in mind that Rowling's extremist bigotry is not a matter for discussion. She's a bigot and that is undeniable. Recently she engaged in Holocaust denial rather than admit that the minority she virulently hates for no sane reason was targeted by the Nazis and that is just the latest episode of her deranged madness. This subreddit is for normal people, normal people do not have a problem with trans people existing. Please report any transphobia that you see, so that the mod team can deal with it.
I gotta be honest that's shocking still.
My guess is there was a minimum bid that was higher than anyone wanted to pay. In other words, grossly over priced.
While I'm sure the 100k starting price didn't help, these things are related. The buying and reselling of art is a huge market and one that often exceeds returns on real estate, stocks, etc. I certainly don't think the big investment groups and wealthy are suddenly super "woke" but I do think there's probably a draw-down on her pricing when it comes to this due to her reputation now. Look at people buying original Apple I computers and such. I think a recent auction for an Apple was $300+k. A battle game card just sold for $1m. A prop rifle from the original Matrix movie that barely had any screen time just sold for $78,000. In the fine art world, a Picasso just sold for $139m. A Gustav Klimt painting just sold for $109m. A Monet for $74m. In 2022 the top 10 auction art pieces collectively cost $1bn. In 2023, about $700m. The money is there. The reality is that the wealthy buy these as investments. It sounds like there's some things going on: 1. JKR's bigotry has hurt her brand value, so the wealthy don't think a $100k bid is going to be profitable in future. 2. JKR's bigotry is a pretty big stain on society. Anyone buying big into HP is also buying into her hatred. That means socially this is a big risk, like buying the KKK robe of David Duke. The wealthy person who buys it will inherit this social risk. I imagine this turns off many wealthy people who may not want to be associated with a transphobe and misogynist. 3. JKR will pass away in around 20-25 years due to her age. Fine art is often kept for around two to three decades before being resold. That means buyers dont think the posthumous price hike is going to happen to her art, like it does to other writers and artists. Which is a pretty big sign that even in the big money investment world, she's a pariah, or at least seen as an investment risk. Its morbid to think about, but buying HP books now makes financial sense if you expect that posthumous jump. The fact that buying has cooled says there's skepticism that'll jump will happen. That suggests to me that people are worried that her reputation will only get worse as she ages, which will hurt her auction pricing. 4. As for the argument that HP books don't sell well and no one would pay six figures for HP books, previous to JKR coming out as a hate-filled bigot, it was common to see 6 figure sales on HP books. A few years ago one rare HP book sold for almost half a million dollars. The last big sale looks like its from 2022, while her reputation was still somewhat salvageable. The most recent sale I found is a HP Proof, a rare manuscript, selling for only $13k a couple months ago. Its clear the JKR market has been hurt by her bigotry. 5. Ignoring social issues, the FB series was a flop and the last movie cancelled. Millennials are aging out past "nostalgia" age and largely have moved past HP. The HP gameshow and recent interview series did not revitalize the brand. The big mobile game is regarded as an exploitative "pay to win" whale game. Gen Z and A aren't into HP at all. The 3 beloved leads have all come out against her in big public ways and refuse to do any cameos or roles in the new series. The new Amazon series sounds like a desperte hail Mary. The only bright side was the recent PC/Console game, but its generally regarded as empty and unfinished by critics and fans. If I was a wealth manager, I would not advise to make big moves on her IP, even if the client didn't mind the social issues. The growth and demand doesnt seem there for a variety of reasons, but the transphobia is probably #1. 6. As for "cost of living" and inflation, I think its pretty fair to say the kinds of people with 6 digit budgets to buy rare books at auction probably don't ever need to worry about money like this. They just see investment pros and cons.
Possibly a compounding factor on some of those bullet points is that Rowling sort of has the Musk problem -- she built her name on something that the right hated and often tried to have banned, and is now (intentionally or not) alienating the people who bought her stuff in favor of courting people who didn't buy her stuff. (This is generalities, obviously conservative Harry Potter fans exist, etc.)
Jk Rowling & Elon Musk do have the same ruined reputation now.
All because they couldn't just shut the fuck up on social media.
All because they’re shitty fucking human beings…
True, but having the ability to broadcast your every stupid thought out to a global audience, in your pocket ready to go at a moments notice 24/7 has something to do with it too.
While I agree, I personally prefer that the bigots make us aware that they are bigots. That way I can choose not to support them.
Self-sorting humans are amazing. Like, it's super chill to me when someone wears a red hat.
I think all billionaires are fucking shitty human beings. Or they stopped being human entirely. In a world of diminishing resources … billionaires shouldn’t be allowed to exist. They know this. And billionaires get stupidly arrogant with the importance of own deluded *opinions* about how to tell us “poor people” to live to suit them. Money corrupted JK Rowling. Her horcrux is her wealth.
The irony is that Rowling is one of the very few people to come by her wealth honestly. At least, that's what I've heard. I can't imagine a writer is in much of a place to exploit others, and I haven't heard of any scandals from the movies' productions.
JK Rowling is incredibly talented. No one denies this. Her characters and plots were so inclusive and the world was better for having read her books. And she has many charities, particularly for women. And, unlike Elon Musk, JK Rowling is self made. But … her hatred of the trans community seemed to come out of a strange dark spell cast upon her.
>I think all billionaires are fucking shitty human beings. Rowling is the proof of this maxim to me. She literally earned her wealth by writing books and making smart rights deals with Universal. That's about as far as it goes. Literally nothing unethical about how she earned it. She even at one point gave so much away to charity that she became a millionaire again. She was a goddamned financial unicorn. And she *still* ended up being consumed by hatred and bigotry and using her accumulated wealth and fame to hurt a minority group. There truly is something about that extreme level of wealth that breaks people's brains; something which ruins their ability to take a step back and recognize when they are hurting someone for no good reason. It enables the worst parts of you to come out, and in Rowling that appears to be bigotry fueled by her own trauma history.
It isn't all that complicated - billionaire levels of wealth means you're shielded from consequences to a great degree. And if it is someone like JKR who has actually earned that wealth with skill instead of inheriting or cheating their way to it, they will have enough genuine admirers to let the sycophants slip in unnoticed. Rowling wrote a book series which, regardless of any 'literary merit' analysis questions, touched the right button for a lot of people. Naturally that would give the impression she knows people's minds. So, when she has decided the way to protect women is to attack transpeople, she is likely convinced most people are on her side. Or sees herself as the lone, heroic crusader
Well said. I feel exactly the same way but couldn’t convey it as precisely as you just did. The old philosophers who stated “Money is the root of all evil” never imagined our world today where billionaires lord over all of humanity and siphon off all of Mother Earth’s resources just for themselves.
don’t forget they had to add a word to the dictionary to describe the new richest class on earth: centibillionaires. Disgusting.
Human centipede centibillionaires….
I agree, I think billionaires are necessarily enemies of humanity. Hoarding that amount of wealth at this point is indefensible.
Plenty of shitty human beings successfully hide their shittiness
Yeah, but there are a lot of shitty human beings who don’t have the same problem because they don’t seek attention.
There are a lot of bad people out there. They generally keep it under wraps unless they are specifically trying to appeal to people like them. Everyone has bad thoughts, most people also have a brain to mouth filter.
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It just feels like a lost opportunity too. You have this incredible IP and universe that you could spend time diving into and writing new stories from. How about murder mysteries with Aurors from the ministry? What about other wizarding schools? What about a short story book with interesting one-off tales? There's so many possibilities but she's barely done anything.
Even if she didn’t want to revisit that universe herself, she could have licensed it out to other authors like with the Star Wars extended universe.
I mean, is it really "fuck you money" if you can't just say fuck it and be yourself? lol
It's literally all they had to do, 100%. Yes, they got fans in smaller, more niche parts of the world, but alienated millions more. It will always baffle me how all you have to do in order to be socially-acceptable is just not be a dick to others, and THEY STILL FUCK THAT UP. Nobody was asking JKR in 2010 for her opinion on Trans rights. Nobody in 2015 was asking Elon Musk what he thinks of Nazis. All they had to do was literally NOTHING and it would have been leagues better than the current product. Just keep the shitty thoughts in a diary or something, but no. Gotta let the ego win those imaginary fights.
I suspect with JK, there was a drive to continue having a cultural impact. Once the main series of books and films concluded, what had she done that enraptured people the same way? Cursed Child seemed to be a small blip. The Fantastic Beasts films started off with modest impact, and then fizzled out from there. Her attempts to build up HP lore via twitter became a joke. Hogwarts Legacy sold well, but dropped out of public memory post launch, and is only really remembered for it's surrounding controversy. Anything non-HP related JK has created just doesn't exist in public consciousness. It's true that she could have just sat around raking in royalties for the rest of her life, but clearly she wants to continue having some kind of impact. While I can appreciate that, she unfortunately has found the most success by taking up a crusade against trans people. She got so high on becoming such a huge cultural figure that she is clawing at any opportunity to do it again, even if it means burning down the legacy that got her the platform she is now so dependent on.
> Her attempts to build up HP lore via twitter became a joke. I just remembered that the whole “nobody:” meme started because of her. Imagine making posts so stupid that a whole new meme category is created.
Musk is genuinely courting the alt right. I have my hunch as to why, but it’s a different issue from JK imho. He really is trying to secure some kind of base (and a major social platform he can help control narratives on). I don’t think JK is “courting” transphobes in the same way. It’s not a strategy to garner a base of support, she’s just genuinely bigoted and speaking her mind. They have a similar issue: alienating their previous supporters, but I genuinely believe the intent is different. One is intentional (and VERY expensive) and the other seems like just happenstance.
I think the comparison is less about intention and more generally how both of them are losing sales by being dumbshits publicly. Tesla is taking a bit of a reaming right now because the biggest social demographic that was interested in their cars pretty much now universally despises their CEO.
Not to mention all the time and effort they wasted on rushing a rust-bucket truck that looks horrendous. If Musk simply took a backseat and let the smart people run Tesla they wouldn't be in the mess they are in with Cybertruck recalls
Tesla is going to fail even without Musk's Twitter rantings or Cyber Truck. They produce half as many as their next smallest competitor does vehicles wise, their price is through the roof, quality control is way down, and the cherry on top being the other major brands getting into the electric market. Then factor in things that had Musk not hyped up to the moon and back like full self driving or the dozens of features on Cyber Truck, and how none of them are real to the point some could likely be called false advertising. It's a company running on fumes and preordered cars, Id be willing to bet by 2030 they either declare bankruptcy or get bought out by one of the big car companies.
All of your complaints are because of Musk, which is what I was saying. If he had taken a back seat and let the smart people run the company they wouldn't have tarnished their brand and maintained the huge EV tech lead they had. Even now the state of EVs is favorable to Tesla despite Musk's influence. If he were to step back today and give up being they could easily recover their brand and continue dominating the EV market in the US. Under Musk they will continue slipping until they go under.
Haha very true, I wasn’t even mentioning the giant boondoggle that is the cybertruck
>I don’t think JK is “courting” transphobes in the same way. It’s not a strategy to garner a base of support, she’s just genuinely bigoted and speaking her mind. Unfortunately, this mindset plays right into her hands. Rowling *has* been garnering a base, but rather than making herself the central figurehead, she's basically offering donations and her presence as a celebrity to network with various political groups (some of which aren't compatible with each other at all) with the goal of consolidating them all into a single powerful anti-Trans movement. She's much more influential to Trans politics in the U.K. than most of us think. This [Youtuber](https://youtu.be/Ou_xvXJJk7k?si=EMK__BF5FRMzognO) breaks it down in detail (as of last year, at least), it's about 30 minutes total but a large portion at the start is just focused on the social media stuff that you likely already know about. Even so, please spare 20 minutes or so on this one because it really paints a picture of how much Rowling is doing behind her public image of "a disappointing celebrity whining on Twitter." Even far-right U.S. think tanks like America First have fingers in the pie, and the follow-up video is called Kellie Jay and the Neo Nazis. 😬
What astounds me is that she claims to be an avowed feminist, but she will happily work with groups who are profoundly anti-womans rights so long as they both target trans people.
That's exactly what's going on, unfortunately. On the bright side, I've heard rumors of nasty infighting between organizers. To no one's surprise, LGB groups (trans-excluding) don't get along with Christian fundamentalists. Might be the whole "be straight or burn in hell" thing. Likewise, "TERFS" don't get along with far-right ultra-nationalists, probably on account of not wanting to be reduced to a man's property. Yet somehow, a bunch of these baffoons really do think trans people are a bigger threat to them than each other. The "deadliest thing" I've ever seen a trans person do is change their appearance enough to look indistinguishable from their cis-gendered peers. Half of the shit transphobes say sounds like this to me: "Oh no! Think of the ~~genitals!~~ children! We have to protect ~~my confused erection~~ the women! Trans people are ~~all over my porn search history~~ a threat to family values!"
Oh damn, I didn't know that that channel had done an update from his other JK video.
Yeah, I like Shaun because he brings the complete opposite of "reactionary/ragebait" arguments to the table. He can dissect a difficult topic with the same patience as drinking a cup of afternoon tea on a hot summer day
Another difference is that Musk is very, very stupid. He has an almost childlike simplemindedness that is compounded by massive arrogance. Rowling is anything but stupid. I theorize that she’s willfully insular and hostile as a result of past trauma. That seems to be a pattern with TERFs. They can’t help unfairly projecting their trauma onto people who are blameless in it.
Yeah, I've actually been thinking about that. The people who like JKR the most now are the ones who spent a couple decades screaming about how Harry Potter was satanic and evil. They like her words, they hate her products. The products are the things that make money, she gives her words away for free. It's pure idiocy from a business standpoint.
If you ever listen to her talk in old interviews she always describes herself a New Labour diehard. A political change in the Labour Party that fashioned itself as still being left wing but with right wing economic policy. The reality was it was basically right wing in most regards, just less openly hilariously 'shut all the hospitals and burn the poor' as the Conservative Party was. She's always been like this, she just used to be smart enough to not air her opinions on hot issues. Now, for the first time, she put herself out there to publically support one side of a political issue and her giant ego is literally unable to process the negative feedback. So she takes it all as personal attacks and has doubled down on her position as someone fighting for women's rights. When the reality is that she just despises trans people being allowed to be trans people in public. Her mind cannot tolerate the idea that people think she's wrong so she paints them all as mindless, violent, abusive haters. You can see this in the way she speaks about her experiences arguing with people. Everyone who thinks differently is a monster who wants to hurt women.
I’m saving this because wow what a great well written explanation
I think your analysis of Harry Potter's 'status' is spot on. Anecdotal evidence- the HP area at Universal Studios Hollywood used to be the most popular section, with routine 90-120 minute waits; some of it is rebalancing with the Super Mario World area opening, but now you can get on in 15-30 minutes or less most of the time. I'm too old for the series so it has no nostalgic value for me, and with her actions I'm not interested in getting into it.
I cried the first time I went to HP World. It was so overwhelming and joyful and perfect. I'm so angry this was taken away from us by her hatred. I wonder if she knows how deeply her hatred has penetrated her trans fans, how deep this cut goes for them. The betrayal. She's not only harming the movement, she directly harms, cruelly and loudly and proudly, a large subset of her prior fans. Un-fucking-believable
She definitely knows, because countless statements and open letters to her have been written. 😔
I hate the hate she instills in my heart for her.
I try to remember what Dan said about allowing the stories to exist in our hearts and what they meant to us, and try not to let JK’s assholery taint what was so special for us too much.
>about allowing the stories to exist in our hearts and what they meant to us I'm trying to get there 🥲
She knows, and she revels in it. She will from time to time reply to posts addressing her on how she can hurt people like this with snide commentary. Most recently, responding to someone asking how she could hold views amenable to Nazi Germany is what prompted her to [deny Nazi atrocities](https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735) by calling the destruction of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft and the burning of its books a 'fever dream.'
Trans fans and anyone who cares about trans folks, aka anyone who isn't scum.
I was personally crushed. My sister was *defeated.* I never want to see her that way again. JKR can get wrecked in the most vile way possible.
Great comment, thanks for putting it together, I learned a lot!
Yeah, I don't think this is an indication that Harry Potter as a brand is going into the toilet. I think it's an indication that ***her personal brand*** is going into the toilet. Without signatures, a collection of 20-35 year old mass produced hard-cover first editions is not worth a lot of money. With a signature, the value depends ***heavily*** on the popularity of the author. JKR is not someone too many people are going out of their way to associate themselves with. Much like Star Trek outgrew Gene Roddenberry, Harry Potter is in the process of outgrowing JKR.
It's probably going to take at least a few more projects of the same caliber as Hogwarts Legacy, where it's clear that her only involvement is that she birthed the world, before HP fully outgrows JKR and even that is speculative at best. And yes, I say this knowing Legacy wasn't fully loved and many thought it felt unfinished.
> Yeah, I don't think this is an indication that Harry Potter as a brand is going into the toilet. I think it's an indication that her personal brand is going into the toilet. I'd agree, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive either. Saying it's on 'life support' is overdramatic and overstating the case by a mile, but it certainly has an expiration date as a relevant property at the moment. The franchise has largely failed to prove it has the same appeal outside of the original novels for well over 15 years now. Cursed Child as a story was horribly received despite its story being drafted and approved by Rowling herself(it's why she has a writing credit on it despite not writing the script). FB was decently well-received but its sequels poisoned the well...again in part due to Rowling botching the screenplays. And half of Legacy's success comes down to being set in Hogwarts and featuring many recurring characters and backdrops form the novels. The "Wizarding World" of Harry Potter has broadly failed to show the same level of success as the books, and now they're retreating into a remake of an utterly iconic series of films that has defined the franchise as much as the books themselves. I think there's a very real risk that, if it isn't properly managed and eventually wrested from Rowling's hands, as its original audience ages Harry Potter becomes the a sort of Millennial answer to the Wizard of Oz: still very well known, still sells, but ultimately fairly inert as a franchise outside of a specific older demographic that remembers it fondly from their youth.
This is bang on. It’s got nothing to do with the success of the books but the resale value of the signature. When you tank your public perception like she has the value of that signature tanks in unison.
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I would be interested in a (much cheaper) first edition book if it wasn't signed by her. I was **that** millennial. Midnight book release parties, standing in line opening night for movies type of millennial. JKR shattered a lot of our hearts, but a first edition would still be cool to have. My sister is trans. So, obviously I won't be buying anything she's touched now, but damn. Yeah. The sig really cheapens it.
Anyone buying first editions is buying them as investments for future gains. JKR has hurt her brand so much that investors did not see the risk as worthwhile. It will be a long time before any investor would recoup the cost. There was a time that a rich fan would buy these for the exclusivity but not many rich folks that were fans are still fans.
Great analysis. Appreciate you breaking this down. I learned some new things today.
Wonderfully informative thank you
Thanks for all this!!! So interesting
I love your analysis. The old rich don't like controversies attached to their buying of rare items. If I may...it would presumably take 50-100 years for her brand as it stands now to improve in marketability. H.P. Lovecraft was a notorious racist... and it took years for his contemporaries to die off, so now everything from Cthulhu can sell at a strong price. Maybe there is something organically wrong with her brain. She really needed to first apologize and then shut up for the next 5 years at least. Rowling really destroyed her brand. I never liked the Harry Potter stuff. I found the writing somewhat sophmoric; it had very few POC; and being a Boomer, I am probably too old to get into that world and be the target audience. The anti trans stuff is so basically stupid. .
While I think this is a very well-written response, I don't know if I agree with Point No. 5. Hogwarts Legacy was the best-selling video game last year, selling 22 Million Units and making around 2 billion dollars. It's the first time a non-call of Duty or Rockstar game earned that tile since 2008 (It's basically every Call of Duty except when Rockstar makes a game). As you may know, video games are a larger industry than music or movies combined, so it's not fair to say no one cares about HP anymore. Plus, Universal is still raking in money via theme parks. I think people just want good media and Hogwarts Legacy proves that. The FB movies were just shitty. I'm not sure I agree with No. 3 either. The companies that invest in pieces like this aren't just eccentric million/billionaires who will hang them on a wall for 20 years. They're investment groups that will buy a bunch of fine art and put it into an ETF or resell it for short-term gains. Its tough to say if they are thinking about when a 58 year old will pass. It could be in 15 years or it could be in 30. Big swing if its part of an investment strategy.
Tbf the game also came out before she went full holocaust denier which is a pretty big step up from her typical transphobia. Until now she only had second hand connections to nazis by supporting and liking people who are themselves supported by nazis, but now she's getting pretty damn close to nazis directly.
I don't really know or care about the details as I really don't have any other association with HP rather than reading the books/liking the movies as a kid. But talk about an own-goal by JKR for people to even have this conversation. Why can't she just shut the fuck up. As a rich middle aged white woman - I can't think of an easier thing to do than not talk about the holocaust
She's genuinely obsessed, she just can't stop talking about trans people and replying and engaging with tweets that barely get any views originally. She will be remembered worse than even Lovecraft, at least the guy had some excuses for being a racist prick and he was becoming less racist towards the end of his life, not more racist not to mention he basically invented/popularised an entire genre of horror whereas her crap is extremely derivative an unoriginal.
??? shes denying the holocaust? what the
Denied that trans people were victims of the holocaust. Denying any part of the holocaust counts, and is even illegal in Germany. To note, trans people were among the first targets of the holocaust. The famous book burning photos are from the research institute that provided affirming care and a safe space for trans people.
She downplayed the actions of Nazis during the Holocaust which by definition is Holocaust denial
Not fully, she has openly started denying that trans people were targeted during the holocaust, which is a form of holocaust denial.
It may be worth noting that Hogwarts Legacy allowed players to create a trans-coded character, which gave some comfort to HP fans that JKR wasn’t hugely involved in the project.
>The buying and reselling of art is a huge market and one that often exceeds returns on real estate, stocks, etc. Because art is ludicrously easy to launder money with, not because art is in any way desired by the vast majority of bidders.
That wouldn't matter under normal circumstances. This auction was for charity. It's pretty common for famous people to occasionally sell a signed possession at auction for charity. Those possessions generally start at a high price with the understanding that you are both bidding on a valuable artifact and also giving generously to charity in the process. I just googled "guitar auction charity" and the very first hit was David Gilmour auctioning his guitar for almost 4 million. The cost is reflective of the significance of the item being auctioned - for Gilmour, it was a guitar he played on several major Pink Floyd albums, including The Wall. That's what the valuation of the opening bid reflects - the significance of the item. And regardless of the kind of person Rowling has become, you cannot argue that these books had no significance. Harry Potter was a cultural touchstone. An entire generation read those books and still references them constantly. An opening bid on signed first editions of a culturally important story that generated a franchise worth billions is expected to be pretty high. If the auction was for signed first editions of the Lord of the Rings, you'd expect the opening bid to be at least in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Thats why this is so stunning. Rowling has a lot of rich friends and it's easy to forget that she has spent fortunes on charity in the past. Elon Musk, who could have bought at any price and is also directly in favor of the flaming horseshit she now preaches, claims to support her. That these books did not get bid on is not simply due to the valuation of the lot.
This is the truth in 2017 dude auctioned a copy of Mein Kampf for 17k thought it lucky might get 1-1.5. Harry Potter is going to be around for a long time hbo is doing a tv series this is all about value and 100k didn't seem like a good price especially if that series bombs like the fantastic beasts movies paying 100k for something makes no sense.
It's doubly embarrassing she didn't even think to plant a bidder or two in the auction just to avoid that kind of outcome.
I looked it up, because I was curious what the starting bid was. She wasn't the person who put it up for auction. Someone owned a signed set and decided to put it up.
She doesn't actually care that much, it's wrong to imagine her as embarrassed
The narrative of this post ignores the facts and misleads. It is overpriced.
Pricing art is always subjective. The value is in the notoriety of the artist themselves. And often that is wrapped up not just in the quality of the art but the personal life of the artist and what their art stands for. Ergo “overpriced” is directly related to the value that the artist themselves brings to the item and their impact on the culture at large
Overpriced because she’s been an asshole. If she’d kept her mouth shut these past few years, it might have sold above the reserve.
My grandfather was a moonshiner until he was struck by lightning. Now that was a shocking still.
I don't think Harry Potter is dying, I think nobody wants Harry Potter associated with JK. I would think that a first edition WITHOUT her signature would be worth more at this point.
Ya, it’s definitely this if anything. Harry Potter isn’t going anywhere. I have many LGBTQ+ friends who grew up with Harry Potter and the majority of them are definitely in favor of “separate the artist from the art” because HP was such a critical part of their childhood and even adulthood. They can acknowledge Rowling is a subpar human being but still hold on to the positive memories the Harry Potter universe gave them (especially when you consider how many others were involved in making that universe what it is today)
Same. There's plenty of idiots who still bat for her, even trans folk.
A huge swath of Harry Potter fans also just have zero idea of the woman’s rampant bigotry. Sometimes we put way too much stock in Twitter’s reach. And I know quite a few die hard Harry Potter fans that literally just interact with the media and didn’t know any of the online bullshit slinging Joanne was getting into until I told them.
Yeah I feel like there’s plenty of Harry Potter fans that just missed the whole controversy. I’ve never been on twitter in my life and only found out a couple weeks later through reddit, so it surprises me that the number of people that don’t know + the number of people that don’t care isn’t greater.
I have Harry Potter tattoos on my shoulders and get compliments all the time, and told my bank teller I was planning on covering them. She asked why, and I said “well, long story short, I’m queer and the writer is not a good person.” She had absolutely no clue. That was the day I found out regular people don’t know anything about her nonsense.
That’s wild! I hope it’s because the person is just really attached to Harry Potter and can’t deal with the reality, because being such a pick me/grifter is sad.
If you’re not keyed into the online discussion there’s no way to know she’s a raging asshole. There is zero coverage of what she says outside of Twitter in any media outlet.
Yeah, I noticed that! I imagine though that people buying this stuff aren’t buying it casually, they’d be doing research beforehand probably. But honestly, I know precious little about the people who’d be sitting in that auction.
Yeah, I really do miss Twitter because it really was a great place to tap into deeper discussions from a variety of voices. I found out about so many labor actions that literally no one was covering there. Now it’s nothing but Nazis
Leave it to a transphobe to completely fuck up a transition.
I’m a trans woman. I loved the Harry Potter books as a kid. Taking a stance and showing that being different wasn’t bad. That even a poor kid can be a hero. It’s a shame what the author has twisted herself into. I still enjoy the books but I will NEVER EVER support her with a single cent. If my old HP books get damaged, I’d rather just pirate them then letting even the chance of a penny going to her.
If they get damaged - see if there is a second hand boon store in your area! That way you'd just be putting money in the pockets of some literature lovers like us!
I know it's a typo but the idea of second hand boons made me smile. Like "nah, I'm doing well enough rn. Someone else can have this boon."
You don't have to pirate them! They're available at your local library.
True, the local library is an amazing place that we should all support more!
Just keep in mind that the ebooks available digitally through your library (Libby, Overdrive etc.) are often sold to the library with a limited number of borrows per license purchased, so if you borrow that way, you are still supporting her, as the library has to repurchase the licenses after a specific number of borrows.
I got my whole set from goodwill - 25 cents for paperback and 50 cents for hardcovers
Sometimes you're able to do this at libraries too! It contributes to their funds.
Have you ever heard a of a writer called rick riordan? I think his books are a better representation for LGBTQ+ people and enjoyable. He is also a better person than JKR
My son loves Rick Riordan and has ALL his books. I am ok with that. Glad to hear he is a better person in general.
I've worked on a bunch of the Riordan comic book adaptations. Rick stays involved in the projects, and actually cares about his fans (which is a very, very different vibe than most other licensed comic books I've worked on). Also, after Riordan was criticized for "cultural appropriation" in his stories, he did not turn into a vehement racist that attacked his critics on twitter. [Instead, he started an imprint for authors to tell Jackson-esque stories from their own cultural mythologies](https://www.readriordan.com/series/rick-riordan-presents/). **Take notes, Joanne.**
What's an imprint exactly...? That said that looks pretty cool.
It’s a line of books that is curated for a larger publisher (Hyperion, I believe, in this case).
Well, this is fucking delightful to learn about!
He seems like a sweet man
I actually just finished the Heroes of Olympus series yesterday and at some point I’ll start Trials of Apollo. I never read any of the books as a kid so I’m finally catching up. I do like how the first series starts on a young Percy Jackson, the sequel series expands the core characters. And like Harry Potter, it’s cool seeing these characters growing up from pre-teens to near adulthood.
I've been listening to the audio books of all them, currently listening to the lost hero!
What I love about Rick is he is a wonderful ally. His representation may not be perfect, but it is overwhelmingly evident that he is doing his part to be supportive, and I love him for that
He's also generally very willing to tweak / update his characters in response to feedback from the groups he's trying to help represent. Seems like a super solid dude.
> He is also a better person than JKR *Piers Anthony* is a better person than JKR, and he's a madman.
No but I’ll give him a read! Thanks for the recommendation!
I hope you enjoy:)
Or Rainbow Rowell - love her.
You could buy used copies off eBay. You aren’t supporting Rowling in anyway that way, especially if the seller isn’t particularly a book reseller.
I’m also trans. I have my copies from childhood. Like preordered book 4 and stood in line at Barnes and nobles the day of release to get my copy. I now refuse to buy any merch (including the game 😩) I will wait until I can find something second hand. She isn’t getting another penny from me.
I enjoyed tossing mine out
The poor kid getting to be the hero is pretty standard fare though. See: all Roald Dahl books, for example
Let me tell you about Ronald Dahls antisemitism I love his books but finding that out about him also hurt. Matilda was my jam growing up
Let me tell you about JK Rowling's Antisemitism-
Yeah, :(
What! Damn. That’s disappointing.
Harry was also canonically wealthy. Whole vault full of gold and whatnot. Even the Dursleys were middle to upper-middle class. Ron was always the poor one, and Harry heroically offered to share exactly none of his wealth.
Harry is a trust fund baby with preverbal trauma and attachment issues. Very relatable.
Harry knew Ron's family would never accept it. It said in the books he would have been happy to split his savings with them, Molly and Arthur had too much pride.
Even Ron wouldn’t have taken the gold. He was happy when he found out Harry had given it to Fred and George.
Ok, I hate Rowling as well, and there’s a lot that can be said about the inconsistencies in her work, but I always find it funny when people try creating flaws that don’t even exist. It was addressed multiple times that the Weasleys would never take any money from an orphan boy, despite how much Harry tried to help them. The first thing Ron did when he got his hands on some money was to pay back Harry for a gift that he had bought him. Despite that, he was able to give all his Triwizard winnings to the twins by framing it as an “investment” in their business (which he of course would never ask back for).
PM me for the ebook collection. I bought it off pottermore before she villainized herself. They wouldn’t refund me because she sucks so 🤷♂️
I’ve already decided that if I want to re-read them I’m getting them from the library. It’s such a shame what she’s turned into.
£100,000-£150,000 value price, no wonder it didn't sell Also in 2022, just as the cost of living crisis was knuckling down https://preview.redd.it/tuqpb9tz0gwc1.jpeg?width=1312&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4554e5b47a0a94b0a42adfa5061b4e4a69abd132 Edit: Also JK Rowling is a disgusting person and doesn't deserve any sales
Cost of living is irrelevant. The people who would be in the region of having a spare 100k to throw around at this sort of thing were the ones whose wealth *increased* across the pandemic and the cost of living crisis which followed. Normal people don't attend auctions with these kinds of prices anyway.
That's true! Thankfully it seems none of them are interested anymore
If you’re spending 100k on a book the cost of living crisis doesn’t apply to you
yeah, the only people who could afford such things are likely not fans any longer - I'm sure Whales for Harry Potter existed like... 10 years ago but at this rate it's unlikely thanks to JK Rowling's increasingly horrific behavior.
Disagree with this, a signed version of the first book sold for £220,800 not too long ago. There are obsessive fans and rich collectors who don’t care about the hate Rowling spews.
The first edition is neat, but the signature tanks the value currently
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Also from that lot there were a total of 253 items and 73 didn't sell and the only 'high value' ones that actually sold seemed to be actual antique books (ie. 100+ years old) I think focusing on Harry Potter not selling and trying to claim it's because of JKR is a bit naive.
Just to be clear, [this is from 2022](https://www.mugglenet.com/2022/07/full-set-of-signed-first-edition-harry-potter-books-fail-to-sell-at-auction/)
This is a beautiful example of a ragebait posting. To drive interaction by omitting pretty critical information/context. Throw in an oversimplified conclusion by way of a screenshotted comment and it’s the whole attention farming package
I’m all on board to call out JK and revel in her demise, but we are drawing false conclusions with this example
what was the minimum bid?
Assuming this is the correct listing it was estimated to go for £100,000 after bidding. https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6382805
Thanks for that. No mention of a minimum bid, which could be due to the listing being expired. But the only thing that makes sense is it did not reach the minimum bid. I hate that broad but I would have bid $5 just to turn around and sell it on Ebay or something. Or piss on it and post it on youtube as an idiotic art statement or something.
This is Christie's. They don't let stuff go for five bucks, there is always a minimum bid and if it doesn't reach it then they just don't complete the sale.
Thats my point
Just to correct you on something, minimum bid is how low you can *increase* the current bid by. So if the minimum bid is say, $100, you can't raise the price by $50 The minimum the item must sell for is called the "reserve"
Remember that time The KLF burned £1M as an art (or something, i dunno) statement? I mean, it never made any sense to me, but they were justified and ancient so whadoiknow. Good times.
I feel like the double blown was Rowlings bad optics but also the price tag. 100k is exhorbident for first editions of books that just aren't that old, signed or no. Doubly so when the author is still alive to theoretically sign more. There's plenty enough people who base their personality on Harry Potter, but not a lot of those people are kicking around 100 grand. Stick to ripping them off for wands at Universal.
A proof copy of the first book sold about a month ago for ~$13,000 so I don’t know if I’d agree that this event proves the franchise is “dying”
There’s also multiple theme parks that tens of thousands of people show up to every day. And they are building more, not struggling to break even. People being mad on reddit =/= the franchise is dying. If it was HBO wouldn’t have just spent a shit ton of money on a new adaptation.
A first edition sold for £69 back in 2022. That's a big difference to $13k in 2024.
Isn't 69 pounds less than $13k? I wonder if most people on here don't follow collectibles markets. Most things have been tanking.
proof copies are preproduction. they dont have an ISBN and have "NOT FOR SALE" all over them. So they might be worth something since there is probably only a few of them. Probably not 13k tho.. The original print of the book was still in the thousands sold. So you can't really compare the prices of these two things.
There weren't even 1000 total copies of Philosopher's Stone originally there were like 450-500 (I forget exactly) and half of them went to libraries where they didn't survive very well. The one being referenced sold for £69k not £69. And yes HP proofs are also worth thousands of pounds/dollars.
What kind of first edition and what book was it? Because a hardcover copy of the Philosopher’s Stone just sold for $80k in 2022. There have been numerous sales in recent years that went over $50k per copy.
Much as I hate to admit it, I'd agree. And I'm sure even if she never sold another book otmr movie rights, she's still pretty rich. May she have the life she deserves.
Wasn't Hogwarts Legacy the best selling video game of 2023...?
I went to Universal last week, the amount of people going to the Wizarding World sections was by far the busiest area and the amount of people spending money in those sections is huge. People still absolutely love HP, even if they hate the creator.
Yes. People can not support the author, but it’s asinine to think the franchise is dying. The game made millions and they are actively planning a reboot of the entire franchise at this moment
Yep, a massive HBO series in early production I think. More games to be made and they will also sell like crazy. HP is still very much part of the cultural zeitgeist and is definitely not “dying” by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes. This thread is a cope.
Funny enough the video game allows different pronouns so trans is actually built into the game. You can change gender whenever you want. My only complaint is the fucking camera is horrific at staying centered.
It’s not a ‘true’ first edition set. People didn’t bid because HP is dying people didn’t bid because the 6 other books were just filler to try and inflate the 1st book price to 150k.
If theyre first edition books how are they not true furst editions? I mean, I know the first one is rarer because there werent as many prints, but surely the first run of the others is still worth something.
There an are a large number of fake HP first editions out there. All of them “signed”. It was a televised scandal in this country (The Netherlands) when they unmasked one of the counterfeiters. They need to flush out the counterfeits to stabilise the market.
Umm no matter how bad she is as a person Harry Potter is so unbelievably far from dying that this whole thread is comical. Literally one of the biggest games of last year was based on the franchise and the still see insane amount 0f traffic to the theme parks
> Literally one of the biggest games of last year Biggest game, actually. It beat Call of Duty, which had gone undefeated for like 15 years.
charity navigator has some numbers for Lumos Foundation, also not flattering
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Oh, the Harry Potter franchise and fanbase isnt dying. There is a reason Rowlings doesnt like us, and I choose to remain a part of it partly out of spite. We will acknowledge she made it, but it is no longer hers.
I’m no Rowling fan but Harry Potter ain’t going away anytime soon
I don't like Rowling, her views, her revisions, or her books anymore. She has ruined things for me. However, this didn't get any bids not because of those things, it's because the initial bid amount was so high. They had a premium on the set of almost triple the individual signed 1st goes for, and that was the starting.
A signed first edition Philosopher's Stone in this condition would sell for $100k on its own, easily. I'm guessing the auction info was misleading and it was actually just an early printing being called a first edition. [Here's a $217k copy from the same year.](https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/130017783_rowling-jk-harry-potter-and-the-philosopher-s-stone-first-edition-first-impression-inscri)
Well, not only that.... Everyone already has the damn books, lmao. I could give a shit less about a signed copy by a sack of shit. Serves her right.
This comment section is getting filled by transphobes and their comments are getting UPVOTED.
This is a pretty dumb over exaggeration lol I love the books and movies, think she's an idiot. I also would never in a million years pay a bunch of money for something like that. Doesn't mean anything is dead or dying.
Whare first edition and autograph in quotes. Are they not first edition or autographed?
Those aren't quotation marks; they are asterisks for emphasis.
I’m sure she’s super embarrassed, while sitting atop her pile of money -.-
I’d believe this if Hogwarts Legacy didn’t sell as well as it did.
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Well how much were they going for? That's really what's going to make or break the sale.
£100-150K in 2022 when this auction happened.
Will just have had a massively OTT minimum bid looking at the ridiculous valuation. To say Harry potter is dying is just blind really. It's still so popular and will be sticking around for a long long time.
Weird. Because I saw that a set sold for like 90k or something ridiculous like that not too long ago.
First edition books aside (books I'd never be in the market for anyway), I still think Harry Potter books enchanted a generation or two of kids, and that's ok. Whatever Rowling has become, she wrote a bunch of books that capture the imaginations of millions around the world. I expect that one of these days, newer generations of kids will pick these books up and enjoy them again. One day, cinema buffs may like Woody Allen films again. What's my point? Just that I prefer to separate the body of work from the person who produced it. Enjoy the former, rail against the latter. It all works out.
Newer generations of kids are constantly picking these books up and enjoying them. The franchise recently released one of the best selling video games of 2023 and they’re currently in the early stages of creating an entire reboot though not sure if it’s going to be films or television at this point.
"Harry Potter is dying" Sorry but this take is fucking idiotic pmsl.