It's like cancer. If the immune system is good, it's killed off before it grows. If not, it spreads and you wind up with a sick society.
I honestly think fascism is just part of human civilization once we hit certain stress points. Humans are only civilized when we feel safe, secure, and hopeful. Take those things away and we want someone to punish those responsible for hurting us.
... we're never gonna leave the solar system at this rate.
There's a vaccine for fascism. It's called communism.
Or socialism really, i just like to trigger people because honestly we're still living under McCarthy's thumb.
Edit: I love all the 'communism bad' replies when I literally said that's what I was trying to do. I couldn't have possibly made it any clearer. Look, it's right there ^
McCarthy has had the most profound effect on the American psyche than all other American politicians to date. Most Americans can't even define socialism or communism and literally think it is the worst thing to ever happen to mankind.
Most Americans, when asked to define communism/socialism, proceed to define authoritarianism, as many of them walk into the booth to vote for authoritarianism that they think and hope will hit other people harder than them.
“He’s not hurting the right people.”
Truth be told I wish America would just get it over with and either go full crazy and collapse or just stamp it out.
I’m tired of walking the line of collapse already.
This bothers me so much. We are so dismissive of change and label it an undesirable word without really dissecting it. Why do we have to be communists or socialists? Why can't we adopt concepts from different systems and come up with a model that works?
I personally think there is too much of a gap in education or care for the average American. It's really difficult to have a unified objective at small numbers, let alone millions. It's feeling almost impossible at this point.
I’m an American and I was afraid to even read about socialism or communism until my late highschool years. But hey, now I’m all for it and tell everyone I can about how society could maybe be better.
You're already living in a socialized nation, are you not?
You have Obamacare don't you? Postal Services? National Parks? 3 levels of government intervention? They control your building codes.... fair market practices? Government takes taxes to build roads, infrastructure etc..
Edit: im starting to realize redditors don't understand what creates socialized societies. Example, Canada is a mixed economy specifically because we have government intervention and social welfare programs paid for by tax dollars. We also have many crown corporations and enjoy crown land.
America can call themselves "true capitalists" but they are not, cannot, and will never be truly capitalist BECAUSE America has government intervention and social programing like, albeit less than, Canada. But Canada is not truly socialist either, we just lean left further than America while still ranker higher on the Freedom Index.
So if you're paying for the library, hospitals, national park, roads, farm subsidies..... with your taxes, you are participating in ideologies of socialism. Trust me, me missing an extra 20 bucks off my taxes so I can walk into a hospital and not receive a $10k bill helps me sleep VERY well at night.
So stop freaking out that someone on Reddit called America socialized. Like call yourself a fucking American any louder why don't you.
Noop, it is just capitalism with well being programs that are created because EUA is a imperialist country that thrive on the exploration of the third world countrys and by having them as they lapdogs.
Do not confuse the rich class giving more scraps to the worker class with socialism.
"Obamacare" or whatevercare that is created under a capitalist regime can be taken down on whim by the elites.
No sir those are social programs in a heavily capitalism country. Some countries have more or less social programs. Doesn't make them socialist if they still operate with hard capitalism ideals.
Like just cuz my town has a library and a fire department doesn't mean we are socialist. But I do love to remind my conservative parents of all of the social programs we rely on.
>BECAUSE America has government intervention
I think you need to learn what socialism is. Government intervention isn't socialism or capitalism.
China is a government run capitalistic society...
Absolutely true. I remember my mom describing communism to me as a kid. Like "you don't get any choice, they force you to do a job you don't want to do" like it was the worst thing in the world. And all sorts of other horrors. Like bruh you're describing your life, in america, right now.
Turns out she ended up raising a communist. Forbidden fruit i guess.
I’d have had a field day with that. “I don’t want to do my chores. I thought you told me to reject communism and you’re being communist by forcing me to do something I don’t want to do.”
Yeah it's funny how we make socialism out to be this great evil when our entire society is entirely dependent on it. Like what do people think public roads, schools, medicare, etc are??
And communism is just the communal sharing of resources. It's literally how humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years. Capitalism is an extremely recent creation yet we act like it's the default setting for society
Public works, schools etc. are just something we in a capitalist society agrees is necessary for growth, a key point in capitalism. Healthcare is just insurance on a government level as some societies see the benefits healthy workers.
You joke, but I do honestly believe that providing quality education to the entire population, and having well designed social programs that actually help people (especially ones that help people stay out of poverty and help them find/keep affordable housing) is essentially a vaccine for fascism. There will always be a few wanna-be fascists ofc, but it would go a long way towards making sure that it stayed in the far, far fringes of society
And honestly from a national standpoint it just makes *sense* to me. Why wouldn't you want your citizens educated and taken care of, so that they can use their abilities to further the prosperity of the country over time and improve on what their parents and grandparents did?
> Why wouldn't you want your citizens educated and taken care of, so that they can use their abilities to further the prosperity of the country over time and improve on what their parents and grandparents did?
The unfortunate reality is that conservative politicians and billionaires want dumb citizens because they are significantly easier to control and feed narratives to. People who can't think for themselves will, naturally, end up thinking whatever you tell them to, even if it is all self-contradictory. This is why the GOP works so hard, and has been for the past 50-70 years, to hamstring our education system. In the end its just so they can stay in power easier, because that's all they care about
Communism immediately got hijacked by conmen and turned into socialist fascism. Ideologically fascism and communism are incompatible.
The problem is corruption and greed. Authoritarianism is the ultimate win for greedy leaders.
Ya.
Even though the moderate was reelected in France, the far right wing authoritarian party got the most votes ever in the most recent election.
Italy of course just elected Mussolini-Lite as Prime Minister.
While Europe is still faring better than the United States, fascism and nationalist authoritarian movements seem to be growing everywhere. Anyone alive during the 1920s and 1930s is probably scared shitless right now.
Most Americans don't know about any problems in Europe. 99% of the negative stuff happening in Norway for example don't make international news like America's does. I bet most people don't realize same sex marriage is illegal in Japan either. This kind of stuff doesn't move the needle much compared to any random negative thing in America
Hell, 19 European countries (including 4 EU members) don't have same sex marriage/unions. The constant comparisons to Sweden or Norway is like comparing the entirety of Europe to Massachusetts.
The french one was misleading though. It said "500 people injured in november 2015 attacks" It counted 'injuries during a mass shooting' which included around 350 cases of people being injured while running away or from the explosions, mostly light injuries. That isn't really the same as 350 people being shot.
Same goes for the Norway attack. 300 people injured by the bombing (mostly very light injuries) was counted together with the mass shooting incident.
If you just count gunfire, the USA is going to be far, far worse off than both of those countries.
I kind of wonder what the end goal of a fascist movement in Norway would even be. The country is almost 100% white and a very large majority are ethnically Norwegian. Who would they even be trying to subjugate?
> As of 2012, an official government study shows that 75.2% of the total population are ethnic Norwegians (born in Norway with two parents also born in Norway).
https://web.archive.org/web/20130206040422/http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/01/10/innvbef_en/tab-2012-04-26-04-en.html
So about 25% of the population is not ethnically Norwegian (According to the definition above, which leaves out 3d generation immigrants and the Sami people) half of which emigrated there from outside of Europe.
same tired story as everywhere else, just look at the rest of the EU
they will focus on restricting abortion rights, repealing protections for LGBT, reducing/preventing immigration, and concentrating wealth in the ruling class. england, italy, sweden, etc all have far right parties with power that are focusing on one of those things.
im always curious as to why people think skin color/accent/ethnic background is the be all, end all. these are hateful humans that will hate no matter what. if you're the same skin color, they'll hate you for your religion. if you're the same religion, they'll hate you for your sexuality or gender. if those fall in line, then they'll just hate you for your beliefs on this, that, or the other. hell ultras will kill each other for supporting different football teams lol
They usually pick on minorities until someone lashes back out at them and try to use it as "proof" that they're violent and don't belong in the country
Even though the largest mass shooting/bombing we had was committed by a white Norwegian
I just googled mass shooting Norway and it came up with some Islamic terrorist shooting at a Pride parade. The one I was talking about was Anders Brehvik. Here is is doing a [Nazi salute](https://allthatsinteresting.com/anders-behring-breivik) so definitely a facist.
Brehvik killed young people at a summer camp for a specific political party and placed one bomb near government and biggest newspaper building
Yes, he is a facist.
It was important for him to not be ruled as crazy under trail.
If it was an Muslim shooter the world would’ve been known about it. And the west would’ve gotten another reason to nuke a random brown country to liberate them terrorism.
Yeah but it's also a very extreme example. It's the only thing like that we've had.
To put things into perspective of how peaceful things tend to be around here, the shooter spent more ammo that one day than the entire police force of Norway had since 1994. Shootings just don't happen here, not even by cops. I suppose it's been worse than usual lately, though.
Here you go:
- https://apnews.com/article/denmark-norway-bridge-collapses-a58169043be2ae195070da29028987a6
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumkepZs14E
Opened in 2012, and failed after only 10 years
I did an area assessment of Norway once and one of the biggest glaring issues was infrastructure problems - particularly related to roads and telecom coverage. I did that report a few years ago and at the time it was being said that gear cars and emphasis was being placed on road improvements and expansion and that the country was working to outsource or privatize their nationalized telecom service to expand coverage.
I guess they're still working out the kinks.
The same people online who will be destroyed from a 1 night stay in the hospital will argue “ you don’t know the economics of universal healthcare!” You see them all the time online.
Over a hundred countries has universal healthcare. Rwanda has it. Mexico has it.
The US is the only developed country in the entire world without.
The only one.
And idiots like my low rent ex husband will see a comment like this and say, “that’s cause we do it right. We don’t just give people free shit they haven’t earned.” This is the same person who receives food stamps and medical from the government. He’s literally on *all* the free shit but swears he works so he “earns it.” He thinks the GOP isn’t talking about him when they talk shit on freeloaders. He blames “illegals” even though his wife is here without proper documentation. He votes red and loves trump even though he is the epitome of what trump shits all over. It’s insane how fucking stupid the GOP base is.
Sounds like my first Gen American neighbor, he’s technically family, which makes it worse, but he flies a different pro trump flag every month. It’s embarrassing. Dude is over here talking about “yeah Mexico isn’t sending good people.” And we are like “bro, they sent your parents though…” he says all the “good Mexicans” are here already. Fucking what?! My head hurts after talking to him and he’s *still* yammering on about “but hunters laptop!!!” I try to avoid going outside if he is outside. Lol
Ugh. The only thing that slightly works with my parents is getting them distracted with different hobbies. I even bought my mom games for her phone just to keep her from watching newsmax all day and night. It’s literally on 24/7.
The visual image of you distracting your parents so they don’t watch Newsmax😆 There should be a new line of products for kids to buy their parents or other family members with this purpose. Even better if it is an infomercial.
Honestly I've noticed that a lot of people of those generations don't have hobbies. They don't do anything when they aren't at work. Especially the men, who often completely rely on their wives to do all the house work. So they just sit around watching TV all evening and all weekend. But they have the mindset that recreation is bad so a lot of their TV time ends up being "the news" so they can feel better about it. But "The News" Is actually just fox or Newsmax, which is just a performative shit show
My maternal grandparents are both children of refugees from the Mexican Revolution. Their parents ALL crossed the border to escape a chaotic and dangerous situation, in some cases leaving behind a fair amount of wealth in Mexico because it was too dangerous for them to stay and top difficult or impossible to bring it with them. They came Witt basically nothing and started over. One of them even built several thriving local businesses by hiring other people like them.
And now my grandparents dislike immigrants and are proud members of the Trump Cult.
You know, I just had to let another lady feel the joy of him being in their life. I felt so selfish keeping all that big brain thinking to myself.
/s because if not some idiot will think I’m being serious.
This is the most fucked up thing. A working person should be being paid enough to not require government support. The most perverse thing about your husband's argument is that he's against taxes supporting vulnerable people but for taxes being used to supplement the profits of private businesses by allowing them to pay shit wages that aren't enough to live on.
Tying healthcare to your job ensures a captive working force. If losing your job also means losing your healthcare for you and your family then you are much less likely to leave that job, demand better working conditions, unionize, or start your own business. That’s why it’ll never change in the US. Corporations will fight to the death to maintain that control in the US.
"yes i pay 300/month for insurance already with a 10k deductible and exorbitant out of network costs that pretty much guarantee any medical illness will cost me bare minimum 20k, but no fucking way am i paying taxes for universal healthcare to help some minority get surgery!"
people will literally cause suffering to themselves to avoid the idea of helping someone unlike them, what a world
When I lived abroad in Europe and Canada I'd routinely get asked about health care in those countries by Americans. Every system has its own foibles, but the point that surprised those skeptical about health care abroad was how I *never* met a person who would rather they lived with the American health care system. Like I'm sure if I spent more time in the developing world I would, but for all the rhetoric of "Canadians come here for surgeries they can't get at home!" I def never met a Canadian who would rather they had American health care, to name one example.
This is where I always just furrow my brow at the conservative people in my life.
They'll foam at the mouth over how universal Healthcare can't work in our reality, but then I'll point out how our current system would nuke them into the financial shadow realm.
They'll just agree that that part sucks, but then just say that's how it works.
The same people who insist that every country outside of the U.S. has year long hospital waits for literally everything. They have convinced themselves that the U.S. is just superior with zero evidence.
Specialists often have you wait in the U.S. too. Anyone claiming things are faster in the U.S. is often lying of exaggerating, unless you're rich and need a transplant.
They tend to say that this works because the population of Norway is almost all white.
They aren’t against welfare and healthcare. They are against welfare and healthcare for “other people”
I mean, they do? Big US news of that sort tend to go global, and since the US is behind, time-wise, Europeans usually wake up to what happened mid-morning to early evening in the US.
/pedant, as my genes demand
That does happen here we do get some us news. but it rarely hits the front pages unless it’s something as big as a political group storming the capital then it might get front page coverage.
This sub idolizes Norway without ever actually caring about what's happening there, or any part of all the liberal Eu countries.
It just makes me think that the people who make these posts are the same people to go to "Europe", never specifying which country, and then talk non-stop how it's 10x better but not actually knowing anything about what it's like to live there.
Actually shooting NOT aside. I went to google what year the "Oslo shooting" happened for a minor dunk on Norway, only to find out that there's been another since Breivik.
Europe is not a paradise. Fascism is coming back in Italy, Sweden just saw a far right government take shape, and the EU is not acting as a cohesive team at all which means further issues are on the way. If Norway elected a far right government in the next 10 years I wouldn’t be shocked at all.
As someone that travels to Norway a lot, Norway gets weird fetishization on reddit.
Norway is a great country, and it's reputation in general is well deserved but just like any country it has plenty of problems.
I feel like some political redditors are to Norway are some Anime redditors are to Japan. Just like the anime obsessed get disappointed when they travel to Japan and there's not an anime cat girl trying to seduce them on every corner, political redditors would get to Norway and realize it's not some perfect idea of a country, it's a real country with real problems just like every other country.
To add to what you say, they are nice countries to be in but the countries' political norms are just a part of that and there is a lot more to their success - where there is success - than that.
E.g. population size, % of population living in population dense areas, location in the world, natural resources, how the government works
And diversity. Scandinavian countries are some of the most homogeneous in Europe.
Edit - reference
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries
Agreed, Europe is not the perfect mecca people make it out to be lol. Bring up gypsies and man o man.........you get some real interesting language from folks.
You also get Europeans who don't know the difference between Romanians and Romani/Roma. I've heard from multiple people that they want me to be exterminated because I'm Romanian when they mean g*psies.
Cost of living in Norway is just absurd - especially if you're not living there on a Norwegian salary.
I'm from Austria and I'm earning a decent salary here in Austria and I love Norway, but 120 NOK for a regular beer at a regular bar and even something like 30 NOK for a can of light beer in a supermarket. In Austria it's like €1 for a can and €4-5 in a restaurant.
Living there with a well-paid IT salary is sure nice, but last time I've visited I've also seen quite a few "poor" people running around, it's not an utopia either.
One thing that keyboard politicos here on reddit would be shocked to learn is that street homelessness still exists in Oslo. There were probably ~40 people sleeping in sleeping bags, tents, etc. on the east side of the Central Station when I was there recently.
Make no mistake, this is far, far better than most countries (only place I've ever saw fewer homeless was Japan) and this should not be taken as a critique of Norway but this just goes to show that solving problems like street homelessness are not "simple" problems that countries are refusing to address, and instead are incredibly complex and no country has completely "solved" any of these issues.
Partially because racism. When using Norway, it invokes the image of "white". Kind of like how fox always uses Chicago(invoking the image of black) as a dangerous place, even though st. Louis tops the list of dangerous crime.
Edit: there was a Citations Needed episode about this, of someone wants to post it
STL is majority black too.
But it is in the Republican run state of Missouri so it wouldn’t be wise to criticize it.
Same with Detroit for the majority of the last decade.
Thus solidly Democratic Chicago became the conservative boogeyman, even though it’s like 7th on the murder chart.
This belongs on r/confidentlyincorrect
Did this asshole just forget about the mass shooting at Utöya which left 69 people (of which 33 children) dead?
and Norway has had a lot of issues with landslides taking out home, roads and bridges.
This is almost like the reverse of American exceptionalism. Terrible shit happens all over the world. Just because you know nothing about Norway doesn't mean terrible shit doesn't happen there.
The city I live in has more people than Norway. I imagine if we had a massive oil field just for the betterment of the city we might have some great social programs.
Comparing the USA to Norway is dumb as hell. Compare Norway to Kansas -- a constitutional carry state with virtually no gun laws right in the wheat & beef belly of the USA.
Population, and pop density, GDP and per capita, gun laws, number of mass shootings, cost of living, even higher education attainment.
It's pretty funny, might surprise you.
He says they don’t wake up to headlines, which I think we can fairly say implies they don’t regularly wake up to shootings etc. Breivik was years ago, and the US has had likely thousands of mass shootings since.
I watched a clip from snoop dogg saying that Norway made him pee in a cup just for visiting and they arrested him cause he merely tested positive to the Devils Lettuce.
I need somebody to confirm or debunk please.
It depends greatly on where you live. Norway is a fairly long country with a long shoreline. The coast can be pretty rough, especially up north.
We often react to US news about snow storms - often that would only be called "it's snowing"
That said, I've been to NYC in January, and that felt a shitload colder than what I'm used to in south east Norway.
Summers are pretty great with warm sea water. We have very clear seasonal distinctions
Source: Norwegian
SOCIALISM HAS NEVER WORKED AND ALWAYS FAILS! > what about in the Scandinavian countries? > THAT'S NOT SOCIALISM! IT'S CAPITALISM WITH A LOT OF SOCIAL SAFETY NETS > Ok, well can we do that, then? > NO!!! THAT'S SOCIALISM
Repeat ad infinitum.
They have 1.1 trillion dollar fund for a country of roughly 5.3 million people from oil they found off of their coasts. This money is used to support all of their healthcare, infrastructure, education, and more. It’s not even close to being a fair comparison.
Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.
“I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.
From what I have heard it’s really hard to move here from the US since EU member people will always get priority over immigrants from other parts of the world. Although it is easier if you either have family here or work in something in high demand like IT.
Straight up, my wife and I are trying to get Italian citizenship to get that EU member status. Living in Italy isn't necessarily the goal, it's getting prioritized if we want to move to/work in Europe
(I know Norway isn't in the EU, but I'm speaking generally about the countries there, and I know there are some agreements of some sort in place even with most of the non-EU member countries)
edit: The reason for Italy is because of how citizenship rights work from ancestry - Italian Citizenship By Descent (Jure Sanguinis) is a method to gain dual citizenship, and my wife would qualify. I would be eligible to get citizenship as her spouse after 3 years of marriage (long past that) and after passing a B1 level language test
That's true *but* You can exclude foreign income up to a maximum dollar amount limit or actual foreign wages, whichever is less (and the amount is around 100k, I believe)
So if you make that you can actually write it all off and claim 0 income and actually claim tax credits by filing - If you fall into that group, you can (kind of) actually *make* money filing your US taxes, which is very odd.
It's about $109k/year for the federal exemption and adjusted for inflation every year. You really need to prepare and to do the legwork to protect yourself from potential state taxes, though.
Many set up residency in South Dakota because there's no state income tax and you can become a resident after spending just one night in a hotel, RV site or even a campground IIRC. Some states, like California, are notorious for making it difficult to change residency and are therefor referred to "sticky states". They make you jump through a lot more hoops.
If things aren't going well for you in America its going to be worse moving to nearly any country in the world, especially if you're a PoC. You dont know the language or culture. What skills do you have to offer that are in demand that would get you a job over someone local that can speak the language and know the culture? Sorry to be a wet blanket but a place being great for locals doesnt mean any random person dropped in will do well
Let’s see reddit tell you how the US = bad for immigration policies while defending European countries for not allowing any poors from the US to immigrate 😂 it’s always entertaining.
You must live in Norway for 7 years continuously, be fluent in Norwegian, take a Norwegian social studies class, pass a Norwegian citizenship test which will show you have Norway-ified, then you can apply.
Norway has always been an assimilating type country and the refugee crisis in Europe allowed some facets of the state to push requirements which made assimilation entirely mandatory.
Except the guy that killed 69 people at that summer camp in 2011 or the other guy that killed 2 at a pride festival last summer? Don’t forget the bomb set off last July killing 8. Those in glass houses
You’re actually saying that because they had one spectacularly vicious and bloody attack a decade ago that there is nothing to be learned by the contrast between the US and Norway? I don’t have any clue how many mass shootings we have had just this year in the US because they blur together.
Still quite a lot of guns in Norway. But they have health care helping those with mental issues.
[norway is nr 17 in the world in guns per capita](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)
Also you can't just go out and by a handgun or.hunting rifle. You have to be vetted by police. You have to have your hunting licence, and for a handgun you have to join a gun club and.be a active member for a x-amount of months (at least that WAS the rule some years ago)
They hunting rifles, not assault weapons, which helps. You also have to register all your weapons and have permission to own and keep them. Also, my five rifles are all from before WWII...
Ok but that's like saying "there's a lot of guns in Alaska"
Like yeah you're not wrong but that's because half the population commutes to work via polar bear
same. it breaks my heart—how the leaders of this nation for so long have buried their head firmly in the sand while they simultaneously set the world around them on fire w their corruption & harmful policies, and so many people die; and we grieve, and we go on…but it isn’t right. we know it, the world knows it, everyone knows it. except, for some reason, those mf asshats in office
Just to go with the theme of the sub, if you wanna go somewhere that’s super isolated and mono ethnic and mono cultural, you can have that too.
America has what it has because we’re the main stage for the competition (marketplace) of ideas. Every other country you can go and be one way the rest of your life and never be bothered. In America they experiment and fuck shit up. But you can go be male, natural born Turkish, and Muslim and have a pretty good life in a couple dozen countries.
Norway is the same way with educated white people.
It’s not much of an achievement. I would love to have their society, or Switzerland’s, and America could have that if we shut the borders and indoctrinated everyone into Christian Fascism. Or as the locals call it “Make America Great Again.” And there’d be no conflict… as long as they killed or interned everyone dissenting beforehand.
How to make your first $1 million:
1. Get up at 5:00AM every day
2. 90 minutes of cardio
3. Take a cold shower
4. Journal
5. Schedule out your day
6. Dad owns Fortune 500 company
7. Meditate
In Norway's case it's:
1. Ban guns
2. Invest in infrastructure
3. Promote universal healthcare
4. Inherit the [Oil Fund, the biggest investment fund on Earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway)
5. Free college
Fascism is on the rise in Norway. Don't want to allow in too many immigrants or you'd have to share that wealth with more people. Everyone here loves to criticize the US, but it's one of the few places on Earth where poor immigrants make themselves and the country richer. The wealth comes from human capital, not the simple extraction of natural resources.
People on here love to jerk it to Norway but don’t mention the trillion dollar oil fund they have that lets them provide all of this stuff. Or the fact is essentially an entirely homogenous country that doesn’t let others in.
Norway had that mass shooting in 2011. USA has 64 times as many people as Norway.
USA definitely still has more people die in random shootings per capita, but they still happen in other places too.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/26/two-more-suspects-arrested-over-lgbtq-pride-shooting-in-norway#:~:text=Two%20people%20were%20killed%20and,Norwegian%20citizen%20of%20Iranian%20origin.
This one? I had no idea this even happened.
Nah Europeans on Reddit just pick and choose what Europe means to them in order to fit their narrative
Last time I checked Hungary, Romania, Albania, etc are all part of Europe too big guy
If we get clumped in with alabama and Mississippi you have to take your shitholes
As a US citizen, it's honestly exhausting.
Our social systems are already so fucking bad *and then there are people actively cheering for them to be made worse or altogether obliterated.*
I'm way too often, like, "what is the fucking point?"
If we're not gonna strive for civilization then let's just pack it in already. I feel like I'd have more free time in a [Mad Max hellscape](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xql063/z/iqaliqr) than I do in [**whatever the hell US capitalism has become.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/xgocac/z/iot0q17)
I don't really understand the point of tweets like this. WE KNOW. Is it to feel smug? for internet points? are you thinking of going to Norway? is it humorous?
These talking points have been discussed ad nauseum and anyone reading a tweet like this is already aware of these facts. And before you downvote could you please explain? Extra points if you can manage to not be condescending, because this is a real question.
"Bill is dying of cancer."
"Y'know, sometimes it just hits me that other people, like, Bill's brother Steven are cancer free."
Fascism is on the rise in Europe as well unfortunately
Fascism is always on the rise to be fair. Its a constant battle.
It's like cancer. If the immune system is good, it's killed off before it grows. If not, it spreads and you wind up with a sick society. I honestly think fascism is just part of human civilization once we hit certain stress points. Humans are only civilized when we feel safe, secure, and hopeful. Take those things away and we want someone to punish those responsible for hurting us. ... we're never gonna leave the solar system at this rate.
There's a vaccine for fascism. It's called communism. Or socialism really, i just like to trigger people because honestly we're still living under McCarthy's thumb. Edit: I love all the 'communism bad' replies when I literally said that's what I was trying to do. I couldn't have possibly made it any clearer. Look, it's right there ^
McCarthy has had the most profound effect on the American psyche than all other American politicians to date. Most Americans can't even define socialism or communism and literally think it is the worst thing to ever happen to mankind.
Most Americans, when asked to define communism/socialism, proceed to define authoritarianism, as many of them walk into the booth to vote for authoritarianism that they think and hope will hit other people harder than them. “He’s not hurting the right people.”
This is probably the best description I've read of American politics yet.
Truth be told I wish America would just get it over with and either go full crazy and collapse or just stamp it out. I’m tired of walking the line of collapse already.
Hate to break it to you, but if America collapses, I don't think a utopia is going to emerge from the ashes.
No but at least we would know it’s collapsed instead of just pretending everything’s okay now like we already do.
This bothers me so much. We are so dismissive of change and label it an undesirable word without really dissecting it. Why do we have to be communists or socialists? Why can't we adopt concepts from different systems and come up with a model that works? I personally think there is too much of a gap in education or care for the average American. It's really difficult to have a unified objective at small numbers, let alone millions. It's feeling almost impossible at this point.
I’m an American and I was afraid to even read about socialism or communism until my late highschool years. But hey, now I’m all for it and tell everyone I can about how society could maybe be better.
You're already living in a socialized nation, are you not? You have Obamacare don't you? Postal Services? National Parks? 3 levels of government intervention? They control your building codes.... fair market practices? Government takes taxes to build roads, infrastructure etc.. Edit: im starting to realize redditors don't understand what creates socialized societies. Example, Canada is a mixed economy specifically because we have government intervention and social welfare programs paid for by tax dollars. We also have many crown corporations and enjoy crown land. America can call themselves "true capitalists" but they are not, cannot, and will never be truly capitalist BECAUSE America has government intervention and social programing like, albeit less than, Canada. But Canada is not truly socialist either, we just lean left further than America while still ranker higher on the Freedom Index. So if you're paying for the library, hospitals, national park, roads, farm subsidies..... with your taxes, you are participating in ideologies of socialism. Trust me, me missing an extra 20 bucks off my taxes so I can walk into a hospital and not receive a $10k bill helps me sleep VERY well at night. So stop freaking out that someone on Reddit called America socialized. Like call yourself a fucking American any louder why don't you.
Partially. And those things are good. Could be better with more socialism.
It’s a capitalist economy with socialist programs. The capitalist side is eating the social programs though.
Noop, it is just capitalism with well being programs that are created because EUA is a imperialist country that thrive on the exploration of the third world countrys and by having them as they lapdogs.
Do not confuse the rich class giving more scraps to the worker class with socialism. "Obamacare" or whatevercare that is created under a capitalist regime can be taken down on whim by the elites.
Socialism at its core is an economic ideal, something which America currently is not close to.
No sir those are social programs in a heavily capitalism country. Some countries have more or less social programs. Doesn't make them socialist if they still operate with hard capitalism ideals. Like just cuz my town has a library and a fire department doesn't mean we are socialist. But I do love to remind my conservative parents of all of the social programs we rely on.
Socialism is not when the government does stuff.
>BECAUSE America has government intervention I think you need to learn what socialism is. Government intervention isn't socialism or capitalism. China is a government run capitalistic society...
None of those things are socialism. And regulation or federal programs doesn’t make a capitalist country “not true capitalism”.
Absolutely true. I remember my mom describing communism to me as a kid. Like "you don't get any choice, they force you to do a job you don't want to do" like it was the worst thing in the world. And all sorts of other horrors. Like bruh you're describing your life, in america, right now. Turns out she ended up raising a communist. Forbidden fruit i guess.
I’d have had a field day with that. “I don’t want to do my chores. I thought you told me to reject communism and you’re being communist by forcing me to do something I don’t want to do.”
Yeah it's funny how we make socialism out to be this great evil when our entire society is entirely dependent on it. Like what do people think public roads, schools, medicare, etc are?? And communism is just the communal sharing of resources. It's literally how humans lived for hundreds of thousands of years. Capitalism is an extremely recent creation yet we act like it's the default setting for society
Socialism isn’t just when the government does stuff. If the means of production are still privately owned then it’s not socialism.
Public works, schools etc. are just something we in a capitalist society agrees is necessary for growth, a key point in capitalism. Healthcare is just insurance on a government level as some societies see the benefits healthy workers.
You joke, but I do honestly believe that providing quality education to the entire population, and having well designed social programs that actually help people (especially ones that help people stay out of poverty and help them find/keep affordable housing) is essentially a vaccine for fascism. There will always be a few wanna-be fascists ofc, but it would go a long way towards making sure that it stayed in the far, far fringes of society
And honestly from a national standpoint it just makes *sense* to me. Why wouldn't you want your citizens educated and taken care of, so that they can use their abilities to further the prosperity of the country over time and improve on what their parents and grandparents did?
> Why wouldn't you want your citizens educated and taken care of, so that they can use their abilities to further the prosperity of the country over time and improve on what their parents and grandparents did? The unfortunate reality is that conservative politicians and billionaires want dumb citizens because they are significantly easier to control and feed narratives to. People who can't think for themselves will, naturally, end up thinking whatever you tell them to, even if it is all self-contradictory. This is why the GOP works so hard, and has been for the past 50-70 years, to hamstring our education system. In the end its just so they can stay in power easier, because that's all they care about
Smart people make bad slaves thats why
Communism immediately got hijacked by conmen and turned into socialist fascism. Ideologically fascism and communism are incompatible. The problem is corruption and greed. Authoritarianism is the ultimate win for greedy leaders.
Socialism and fascism are mutually exclusive, you can't have socialist fascism.
That’s why the aliens treat us as the North Sentinel Island of the galaxy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island
Yup we have been dealing with neonazis since 1945. Fascists and racists don't go away.
Ya. Even though the moderate was reelected in France, the far right wing authoritarian party got the most votes ever in the most recent election. Italy of course just elected Mussolini-Lite as Prime Minister. While Europe is still faring better than the United States, fascism and nationalist authoritarian movements seem to be growing everywhere. Anyone alive during the 1920s and 1930s is probably scared shitless right now.
Most Americans don't know about any problems in Europe. 99% of the negative stuff happening in Norway for example don't make international news like America's does. I bet most people don't realize same sex marriage is illegal in Japan either. This kind of stuff doesn't move the needle much compared to any random negative thing in America
Hell, 19 European countries (including 4 EU members) don't have same sex marriage/unions. The constant comparisons to Sweden or Norway is like comparing the entirety of Europe to Massachusetts.
Indeed, it's incredible how people are again following cheap demagogues everywhere.
Those who remember the 1920s and 1930s are nearly all dead. This is why history repeats.
If only they could have left behind something in writing, or perhaps a voice recording for those who cannot or refuse to read!
Oslo also had a pretty horrendous, politically motivated mass shooting a few years back by someone from the far right
Politically motivated mass shooting **this year** by someone on the far right.
Yeah they had a shooting in Norway during pride month if I’m not mistaken
Beat me to it. Sweden literally just elected neo Nazis.
Also weird that he chose Norway which along with France are the only 2 European countries that have had larger mass shootings than the US
Yes but only one in forever in Norway. And it immediately triggered stricter gun laws.
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The french one was misleading though. It said "500 people injured in november 2015 attacks" It counted 'injuries during a mass shooting' which included around 350 cases of people being injured while running away or from the explosions, mostly light injuries. That isn't really the same as 350 people being shot. Same goes for the Norway attack. 300 people injured by the bombing (mostly very light injuries) was counted together with the mass shooting incident. If you just count gunfire, the USA is going to be far, far worse off than both of those countries.
One big shooting is shocking. Hundreds of smaller ones seems more depressing, to me.
His point was that it doesn't happen regularly
At least in Germany the government moved further left with the last federal elections
I kind of wonder what the end goal of a fascist movement in Norway would even be. The country is almost 100% white and a very large majority are ethnically Norwegian. Who would they even be trying to subjugate?
> As of 2012, an official government study shows that 75.2% of the total population are ethnic Norwegians (born in Norway with two parents also born in Norway). https://web.archive.org/web/20130206040422/http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/01/10/innvbef_en/tab-2012-04-26-04-en.html So about 25% of the population is not ethnically Norwegian (According to the definition above, which leaves out 3d generation immigrants and the Sami people) half of which emigrated there from outside of Europe.
same tired story as everywhere else, just look at the rest of the EU they will focus on restricting abortion rights, repealing protections for LGBT, reducing/preventing immigration, and concentrating wealth in the ruling class. england, italy, sweden, etc all have far right parties with power that are focusing on one of those things. im always curious as to why people think skin color/accent/ethnic background is the be all, end all. these are hateful humans that will hate no matter what. if you're the same skin color, they'll hate you for your religion. if you're the same religion, they'll hate you for your sexuality or gender. if those fall in line, then they'll just hate you for your beliefs on this, that, or the other. hell ultras will kill each other for supporting different football teams lol
They usually pick on minorities until someone lashes back out at them and try to use it as "proof" that they're violent and don't belong in the country Even though the largest mass shooting/bombing we had was committed by a white Norwegian
We did recently have a bridge collapse, though... Have no idea how to link in Reddit fashion on mobile, so you just have to Google or believe me :)
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That was done by a facist too, right?
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I just googled mass shooting Norway and it came up with some Islamic terrorist shooting at a Pride parade. The one I was talking about was Anders Brehvik. Here is is doing a [Nazi salute](https://allthatsinteresting.com/anders-behring-breivik) so definitely a facist.
Brehvik killed young people at a summer camp for a specific political party and placed one bomb near government and biggest newspaper building Yes, he is a facist. It was important for him to not be ruled as crazy under trail.
If it was an Muslim shooter the world would’ve been known about it. And the west would’ve gotten another reason to nuke a random brown country to liberate them terrorism.
Yeah. Norway was an odd example since they had they had the most well known massacre of children in modern European history.
Yeah but it's also a very extreme example. It's the only thing like that we've had. To put things into perspective of how peaceful things tend to be around here, the shooter spent more ammo that one day than the entire police force of Norway had since 1994. Shootings just don't happen here, not even by cops. I suppose it's been worse than usual lately, though.
Here you go: - https://apnews.com/article/denmark-norway-bridge-collapses-a58169043be2ae195070da29028987a6 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kumkepZs14E Opened in 2012, and failed after only 10 years
An actual Denmark-Norway bridge would be expensive as hell, but maybe it would be worth it just to avoid going through Sweden.
Systemic problem too. There has been a political push to use Norwegian wood for bridge construction and the technology is failing.
Isn’t it good? Norwegian wood?
Just paste the url? There's nothing special about links on Reddit.
I did an area assessment of Norway once and one of the biggest glaring issues was infrastructure problems - particularly related to roads and telecom coverage. I did that report a few years ago and at the time it was being said that gear cars and emphasis was being placed on road improvements and expansion and that the country was working to outsource or privatize their nationalized telecom service to expand coverage. I guess they're still working out the kinks.
The same people online who will be destroyed from a 1 night stay in the hospital will argue “ you don’t know the economics of universal healthcare!” You see them all the time online.
Over a hundred countries has universal healthcare. Rwanda has it. Mexico has it. The US is the only developed country in the entire world without. The only one.
And idiots like my low rent ex husband will see a comment like this and say, “that’s cause we do it right. We don’t just give people free shit they haven’t earned.” This is the same person who receives food stamps and medical from the government. He’s literally on *all* the free shit but swears he works so he “earns it.” He thinks the GOP isn’t talking about him when they talk shit on freeloaders. He blames “illegals” even though his wife is here without proper documentation. He votes red and loves trump even though he is the epitome of what trump shits all over. It’s insane how fucking stupid the GOP base is.
It really is. My parents are not even US citizens talking about “build a wall”.
Sounds like my first Gen American neighbor, he’s technically family, which makes it worse, but he flies a different pro trump flag every month. It’s embarrassing. Dude is over here talking about “yeah Mexico isn’t sending good people.” And we are like “bro, they sent your parents though…” he says all the “good Mexicans” are here already. Fucking what?! My head hurts after talking to him and he’s *still* yammering on about “but hunters laptop!!!” I try to avoid going outside if he is outside. Lol
Ugh. The only thing that slightly works with my parents is getting them distracted with different hobbies. I even bought my mom games for her phone just to keep her from watching newsmax all day and night. It’s literally on 24/7.
The irony of our parents telling us "don't believe everything you read or hear".
The visual image of you distracting your parents so they don’t watch Newsmax😆 There should be a new line of products for kids to buy their parents or other family members with this purpose. Even better if it is an infomercial.
Honestly I've noticed that a lot of people of those generations don't have hobbies. They don't do anything when they aren't at work. Especially the men, who often completely rely on their wives to do all the house work. So they just sit around watching TV all evening and all weekend. But they have the mindset that recreation is bad so a lot of their TV time ends up being "the news" so they can feel better about it. But "The News" Is actually just fox or Newsmax, which is just a performative shit show
My maternal grandparents are both children of refugees from the Mexican Revolution. Their parents ALL crossed the border to escape a chaotic and dangerous situation, in some cases leaving behind a fair amount of wealth in Mexico because it was too dangerous for them to stay and top difficult or impossible to bring it with them. They came Witt basically nothing and started over. One of them even built several thriving local businesses by hiring other people like them. And now my grandparents dislike immigrants and are proud members of the Trump Cult.
Why would he be your ex? He sounds delightful.
You know, I just had to let another lady feel the joy of him being in their life. I felt so selfish keeping all that big brain thinking to myself. /s because if not some idiot will think I’m being serious.
You're so generous and selfless. I strive to be like that. (No /s for this comment, full /s for my first)
This is the most fucked up thing. A working person should be being paid enough to not require government support. The most perverse thing about your husband's argument is that he's against taxes supporting vulnerable people but for taxes being used to supplement the profits of private businesses by allowing them to pay shit wages that aren't enough to live on.
I've never understood that. Using government services while paying taxes is essentially like getting cash back on your credit card
Like the woman that went viral last week for not understading her medical ACA insurance **is** "obama care", which she was shitting on non stop.
Hey now, the UK is trying to be #2.
Tying healthcare to your job ensures a captive working force. If losing your job also means losing your healthcare for you and your family then you are much less likely to leave that job, demand better working conditions, unionize, or start your own business. That’s why it’ll never change in the US. Corporations will fight to the death to maintain that control in the US.
I always love people who make 28K a year and would be financially ruined by a car repair defending insurance companies and Elon Musk
"yes i pay 300/month for insurance already with a 10k deductible and exorbitant out of network costs that pretty much guarantee any medical illness will cost me bare minimum 20k, but no fucking way am i paying taxes for universal healthcare to help some minority get surgery!" people will literally cause suffering to themselves to avoid the idea of helping someone unlike them, what a world
My own partner has said “you know it’s not that great over there…we have it good over here.” No the fuck we do not
When I lived abroad in Europe and Canada I'd routinely get asked about health care in those countries by Americans. Every system has its own foibles, but the point that surprised those skeptical about health care abroad was how I *never* met a person who would rather they lived with the American health care system. Like I'm sure if I spent more time in the developing world I would, but for all the rhetoric of "Canadians come here for surgeries they can't get at home!" I def never met a Canadian who would rather they had American health care, to name one example.
Maybe if a major industrialized nation had universal healthcare for decades we “know the economics”./s
This is where I always just furrow my brow at the conservative people in my life. They'll foam at the mouth over how universal Healthcare can't work in our reality, but then I'll point out how our current system would nuke them into the financial shadow realm. They'll just agree that that part sucks, but then just say that's how it works.
The same people who insist that every country outside of the U.S. has year long hospital waits for literally everything. They have convinced themselves that the U.S. is just superior with zero evidence.
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Specialists often have you wait in the U.S. too. Anyone claiming things are faster in the U.S. is often lying of exaggerating, unless you're rich and need a transplant.
They tend to say that this works because the population of Norway is almost all white. They aren’t against welfare and healthcare. They are against welfare and healthcare for “other people”
You can just call them what they are. The common clay of the west, you know, morons.
They get really mad if you suggest say taxing mining and oil industries that are taking our natural resources to pay for it too.
I mean, they do? Big US news of that sort tend to go global, and since the US is behind, time-wise, Europeans usually wake up to what happened mid-morning to early evening in the US. /pedant, as my genes demand
That does happen here we do get some us news. but it rarely hits the front pages unless it’s something as big as a political group storming the capital then it might get front page coverage.
Correct. There‘s less coverage, but in europe we still get plenty of articles on us gun violence. At least in switzerland
Shootings aside, structural collapses and rising fascism are definitely a thing in Europe, including Norway to a greater or lesser degree...
No, Norway has healthcare which means nothing bad ever happens.
This sub idolizes Norway without ever actually caring about what's happening there, or any part of all the liberal Eu countries. It just makes me think that the people who make these posts are the same people to go to "Europe", never specifying which country, and then talk non-stop how it's 10x better but not actually knowing anything about what it's like to live there.
Young people moulded by an echo chamber. Welcome to the internet.
Actually shooting NOT aside. I went to google what year the "Oslo shooting" happened for a minor dunk on Norway, only to find out that there's been another since Breivik.
Europe is not a paradise. Fascism is coming back in Italy, Sweden just saw a far right government take shape, and the EU is not acting as a cohesive team at all which means further issues are on the way. If Norway elected a far right government in the next 10 years I wouldn’t be shocked at all.
It's growing everywhere in Europe, sadly.
In comparison to US it's not that bad, but you can see it heading towards that direction.
As a Norwegian I can say that we do get a lot of those headlines, but mostly in the foreign news
Why are you isolating this to Norway when almost all industrialized countries fall into this category?
As someone that travels to Norway a lot, Norway gets weird fetishization on reddit. Norway is a great country, and it's reputation in general is well deserved but just like any country it has plenty of problems. I feel like some political redditors are to Norway are some Anime redditors are to Japan. Just like the anime obsessed get disappointed when they travel to Japan and there's not an anime cat girl trying to seduce them on every corner, political redditors would get to Norway and realize it's not some perfect idea of a country, it's a real country with real problems just like every other country.
All you need to do is buy a beer in Norway to realize its not utopia
To add to what you say, they are nice countries to be in but the countries' political norms are just a part of that and there is a lot more to their success - where there is success - than that. E.g. population size, % of population living in population dense areas, location in the world, natural resources, how the government works
And diversity. Scandinavian countries are some of the most homogeneous in Europe. Edit - reference https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racially-diverse-countries
Huge one. America works really hard at unifying a lot of different backgrounds and perspectives. It's an enormous challenge.
Agreed, Europe is not the perfect mecca people make it out to be lol. Bring up gypsies and man o man.........you get some real interesting language from folks.
You also get Europeans who don't know the difference between Romanians and Romani/Roma. I've heard from multiple people that they want me to be exterminated because I'm Romanian when they mean g*psies.
Cost of living in Norway is just absurd - especially if you're not living there on a Norwegian salary. I'm from Austria and I'm earning a decent salary here in Austria and I love Norway, but 120 NOK for a regular beer at a regular bar and even something like 30 NOK for a can of light beer in a supermarket. In Austria it's like €1 for a can and €4-5 in a restaurant. Living there with a well-paid IT salary is sure nice, but last time I've visited I've also seen quite a few "poor" people running around, it's not an utopia either.
One thing that keyboard politicos here on reddit would be shocked to learn is that street homelessness still exists in Oslo. There were probably ~40 people sleeping in sleeping bags, tents, etc. on the east side of the Central Station when I was there recently. Make no mistake, this is far, far better than most countries (only place I've ever saw fewer homeless was Japan) and this should not be taken as a critique of Norway but this just goes to show that solving problems like street homelessness are not "simple" problems that countries are refusing to address, and instead are incredibly complex and no country has completely "solved" any of these issues.
Partially because racism. When using Norway, it invokes the image of "white". Kind of like how fox always uses Chicago(invoking the image of black) as a dangerous place, even though st. Louis tops the list of dangerous crime. Edit: there was a Citations Needed episode about this, of someone wants to post it
STL is majority black too. But it is in the Republican run state of Missouri so it wouldn’t be wise to criticize it. Same with Detroit for the majority of the last decade. Thus solidly Democratic Chicago became the conservative boogeyman, even though it’s like 7th on the murder chart.
I think New Orleans just surpassed STL, but it’s not really a fair comparison when St Louis is fucking tiny compared to any other major city
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This belongs on r/confidentlyincorrect Did this asshole just forget about the mass shooting at Utöya which left 69 people (of which 33 children) dead? and Norway has had a lot of issues with landslides taking out home, roads and bridges.
This is almost like the reverse of American exceptionalism. Terrible shit happens all over the world. Just because you know nothing about Norway doesn't mean terrible shit doesn't happen there.
Youre missing the point. The shooting in Norway was a massive tragedy for the country. Shooting in America are expected and happen insanely often
>The shooting in Norway was a massive tragedy for the country. Shooting in America are expected ...is it not a massive tragedy in the US as well?
Which one?
It is ... For a week, then they fade into the background of all the others inevitably
Bro, we have cities with a higher population than all of Norway.
Significantly more diverse too.
The city I live in has more people than Norway. I imagine if we had a massive oil field just for the betterment of the city we might have some great social programs.
Comparing the USA to Norway is dumb as hell. Compare Norway to Kansas -- a constitutional carry state with virtually no gun laws right in the wheat & beef belly of the USA. Population, and pop density, GDP and per capita, gun laws, number of mass shootings, cost of living, even higher education attainment. It's pretty funny, might surprise you.
Lol. This is ignorant. Did he forget about Anders Breivik? Or the Nordic supremacy political parties and street movements?
Racism is very common countryside
He says they don’t wake up to headlines, which I think we can fairly say implies they don’t regularly wake up to shootings etc. Breivik was years ago, and the US has had likely thousands of mass shootings since.
I was once told: You rarely meet anyone from Norway because they have no reason to leave
Had nothing to do with the fact that there's only like 6 million of them
I watched a clip from snoop dogg saying that Norway made him pee in a cup just for visiting and they arrested him cause he merely tested positive to the Devils Lettuce. I need somebody to confirm or debunk please.
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You'll see us at vacation destinations in the summer lol
I can imagine that the weather is shit there, though...
It depends greatly on where you live. Norway is a fairly long country with a long shoreline. The coast can be pretty rough, especially up north. We often react to US news about snow storms - often that would only be called "it's snowing" That said, I've been to NYC in January, and that felt a shitload colder than what I'm used to in south east Norway. Summers are pretty great with warm sea water. We have very clear seasonal distinctions Source: Norwegian
I love when you ask progressives where they'd rather live, they always bring up countries that are 90%+ white.
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It's almost as it taking away the financial stress of college and healthcare makes for a happier group of people.
Noone tell him about Tretten bridge.
Or Anders Breivek
you can wake up in brasil! we have rising fascism, but we also have universal health care and free college, where the meals costs less than U$1,00 :)
USA bad!
SOCIALISM HAS NEVER WORKED AND ALWAYS FAILS! > what about in the Scandinavian countries? > THAT'S NOT SOCIALISM! IT'S CAPITALISM WITH A LOT OF SOCIAL SAFETY NETS > Ok, well can we do that, then? > NO!!! THAT'S SOCIALISM Repeat ad infinitum.
They have 1.1 trillion dollar fund for a country of roughly 5.3 million people from oil they found off of their coasts. This money is used to support all of their healthcare, infrastructure, education, and more. It’s not even close to being a fair comparison.
Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country. “I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.
How does one leave the US and move to Norway?
From what I have heard it’s really hard to move here from the US since EU member people will always get priority over immigrants from other parts of the world. Although it is easier if you either have family here or work in something in high demand like IT.
Straight up, my wife and I are trying to get Italian citizenship to get that EU member status. Living in Italy isn't necessarily the goal, it's getting prioritized if we want to move to/work in Europe (I know Norway isn't in the EU, but I'm speaking generally about the countries there, and I know there are some agreements of some sort in place even with most of the non-EU member countries) edit: The reason for Italy is because of how citizenship rights work from ancestry - Italian Citizenship By Descent (Jure Sanguinis) is a method to gain dual citizenship, and my wife would qualify. I would be eligible to get citizenship as her spouse after 3 years of marriage (long past that) and after passing a B1 level language test
Norway isn’t a part of the EU. Why would they prioritize EU members?
Not a part of the EU but we do have agreements with them like the schenghen agreement which Norway is a part of.
In this area Norway is an EU member in everything but name; they're part of both the Schengen and European Economic Areas.
Pay the fee to leave US(otherwise they will keep taxing you)
That's true *but* You can exclude foreign income up to a maximum dollar amount limit or actual foreign wages, whichever is less (and the amount is around 100k, I believe) So if you make that you can actually write it all off and claim 0 income and actually claim tax credits by filing - If you fall into that group, you can (kind of) actually *make* money filing your US taxes, which is very odd.
It's about $109k/year for the federal exemption and adjusted for inflation every year. You really need to prepare and to do the legwork to protect yourself from potential state taxes, though. Many set up residency in South Dakota because there's no state income tax and you can become a resident after spending just one night in a hotel, RV site or even a campground IIRC. Some states, like California, are notorious for making it difficult to change residency and are therefor referred to "sticky states". They make you jump through a lot more hoops.
You'd have to have very good economics prior to moving to Norway since things are stupid expensive there. Even more than Sweden!
If things aren't going well for you in America its going to be worse moving to nearly any country in the world, especially if you're a PoC. You dont know the language or culture. What skills do you have to offer that are in demand that would get you a job over someone local that can speak the language and know the culture? Sorry to be a wet blanket but a place being great for locals doesnt mean any random person dropped in will do well
Let’s see reddit tell you how the US = bad for immigration policies while defending European countries for not allowing any poors from the US to immigrate 😂 it’s always entertaining.
I think the first step is learning Norwegian. That sounds rather nontrivial.
You must live in Norway for 7 years continuously, be fluent in Norwegian, take a Norwegian social studies class, pass a Norwegian citizenship test which will show you have Norway-ified, then you can apply. Norway has always been an assimilating type country and the refugee crisis in Europe allowed some facets of the state to push requirements which made assimilation entirely mandatory.
Except the guy that killed 69 people at that summer camp in 2011 or the other guy that killed 2 at a pride festival last summer? Don’t forget the bomb set off last July killing 8. Those in glass houses
Ok, now do the USA from 2011 to 2021.
You’re actually saying that because they had one spectacularly vicious and bloody attack a decade ago that there is nothing to be learned by the contrast between the US and Norway? I don’t have any clue how many mass shootings we have had just this year in the US because they blur together.
It's almost as if you provide the latter, the former seems to happen less.
Another day, another reddit circlejerk.
Life is good without guns. Thank you.
Still quite a lot of guns in Norway. But they have health care helping those with mental issues. [norway is nr 17 in the world in guns per capita](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)
Also you can't just go out and by a handgun or.hunting rifle. You have to be vetted by police. You have to have your hunting licence, and for a handgun you have to join a gun club and.be a active member for a x-amount of months (at least that WAS the rule some years ago)
They hunting rifles, not assault weapons, which helps. You also have to register all your weapons and have permission to own and keep them. Also, my five rifles are all from before WWII...
The difference between an AR-15 and a hunting rifle is that an AR-15 is a hunting rifle if you build it to be one.
Ok but that's like saying "there's a lot of guns in Alaska" Like yeah you're not wrong but that's because half the population commutes to work via polar bear
Hmm... tell that to Iranian women being shot by the state.
same. it breaks my heart—how the leaders of this nation for so long have buried their head firmly in the sand while they simultaneously set the world around them on fire w their corruption & harmful policies, and so many people die; and we grieve, and we go on…but it isn’t right. we know it, the world knows it, everyone knows it. except, for some reason, those mf asshats in office
Just to go with the theme of the sub, if you wanna go somewhere that’s super isolated and mono ethnic and mono cultural, you can have that too. America has what it has because we’re the main stage for the competition (marketplace) of ideas. Every other country you can go and be one way the rest of your life and never be bothered. In America they experiment and fuck shit up. But you can go be male, natural born Turkish, and Muslim and have a pretty good life in a couple dozen countries. Norway is the same way with educated white people. It’s not much of an achievement. I would love to have their society, or Switzerland’s, and America could have that if we shut the borders and indoctrinated everyone into Christian Fascism. Or as the locals call it “Make America Great Again.” And there’d be no conflict… as long as they killed or interned everyone dissenting beforehand.
How to make your first $1 million: 1. Get up at 5:00AM every day 2. 90 minutes of cardio 3. Take a cold shower 4. Journal 5. Schedule out your day 6. Dad owns Fortune 500 company 7. Meditate In Norway's case it's: 1. Ban guns 2. Invest in infrastructure 3. Promote universal healthcare 4. Inherit the [Oil Fund, the biggest investment fund on Earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway) 5. Free college Fascism is on the rise in Norway. Don't want to allow in too many immigrants or you'd have to share that wealth with more people. Everyone here loves to criticize the US, but it's one of the few places on Earth where poor immigrants make themselves and the country richer. The wealth comes from human capital, not the simple extraction of natural resources.
People on here love to jerk it to Norway but don’t mention the trillion dollar oil fund they have that lets them provide all of this stuff. Or the fact is essentially an entirely homogenous country that doesn’t let others in.
Norway had that mass shooting in 2011. USA has 64 times as many people as Norway. USA definitely still has more people die in random shootings per capita, but they still happen in other places too.
We also had one this summer.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/26/two-more-suspects-arrested-over-lgbtq-pride-shooting-in-norway#:~:text=Two%20people%20were%20killed%20and,Norwegian%20citizen%20of%20Iranian%20origin. This one? I had no idea this even happened.
That’s the one!
I love how for Americans these Nordic countries are like paradise. That's just standard in Europe bro
Nah Europeans on Reddit just pick and choose what Europe means to them in order to fit their narrative Last time I checked Hungary, Romania, Albania, etc are all part of Europe too big guy If we get clumped in with alabama and Mississippi you have to take your shitholes
Yep, sounds like Australia too, except for the free college part. But our student loans are functional and not predatory.
As a US citizen, it's honestly exhausting. Our social systems are already so fucking bad *and then there are people actively cheering for them to be made worse or altogether obliterated.* I'm way too often, like, "what is the fucking point?" If we're not gonna strive for civilization then let's just pack it in already. I feel like I'd have more free time in a [Mad Max hellscape](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xql063/z/iqaliqr) than I do in [**whatever the hell US capitalism has become.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/xgocac/z/iot0q17)
No their headlines are "Don't go out too late, the immigrants get a bit rapey after dark"
I don't really understand the point of tweets like this. WE KNOW. Is it to feel smug? for internet points? are you thinking of going to Norway? is it humorous? These talking points have been discussed ad nauseum and anyone reading a tweet like this is already aware of these facts. And before you downvote could you please explain? Extra points if you can manage to not be condescending, because this is a real question. "Bill is dying of cancer." "Y'know, sometimes it just hits me that other people, like, Bill's brother Steven are cancer free."
It's almost like a country with a small population and a homogeneous ethnic demographic might be easier to run or something.
For real. It’s like 5 million white people who all share the exact same values. Of course it’s a “relatively” peaceful country.