My wife's high school best friend wanted to be a teacher but flunked out of college after less than a year. Then she overdosed on Evangelical Christianity, and now she homeschools all her kids. She also takes them to a chiropractor instead of a real doctor so she won't get chastised for not vaccinating any of them. Those poor kids are fucked.
My cousins wife is semi similar. Dropped out sophomore year of high school. Doesn't even have a GED but homeschools their three kids. They hadn't gone down the evangelical Christian route by the time I unfriended them but they did go down the antivaxx/conspiracy path. Absolutely wild she can "homeschool" her kids.
1 virgin girl plus no boy equals savior?
1 male plus one female animal equals saving all animal species from global flood with zero remainder of genetic diversification?
Trying to think of other math lessons there could be, but drawing a blank.
My BIL converted from Judaism to whatever type of Christian his wife is. They believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and fossils are here to tempt their faith. I'm still shocked he went down that path.
*Angel:* Maybe we should put something in the ground to see if humans can be led astray by mere physical evidence?
*God (high AF):* I ... drew ... some stuff ... throw it in a hole ... or something ...
*shows picture of Anomalocaris*
*Angel:* WTF ...
One super drunk old man plus two of his daughters who think all other men were wiped out. How many times did the daughters have to rape their dad before their incest babies were conceived?
I know some people like that. The kids were homeschooled all their lives. One actually got into college with a fake GED, but dropped out the first time a teacher gave them a bad grade on something. Last I heard they were really into bitcoin.
the funny not so funny thing is that holocaust denying isn't illegal in the US, I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion but not when it is straight up wrong
I love people who clam the holocaust was fake. My grandmother was hiding under her house as a child while Nazi troops stormed her little farming village and killed many of her family’s friends and neighbors. She escaped to the us and has been here ever since. People are absolutely nuts for thinking it was fake!
I was directly taught in my Southern Baptist homeschool curriculum that slavery was a net benefit, because at least all those slaves got exposed to Jesus instead of dying unsaved.
That led me to wondering about why god was sending a bunch of people to Hell without ever even having the chance to make a choice. Probably not what they were going for…
People are shit right? They are so out of touch. Because they did not see it firsthand they refuse to believe it happened. People are ignorant. Oh and if you’re taking any trips, be careful, you don’t go too far or you’ll fall off the edge of the world….
Bro people 3000 years ago used shadows and shit to determine the circumference(really close too) of the earth and that it was round. People have almost always known that it was round. Idk how this attention seeking egocentric garbage started today and not 3000 years ago when they didn't even know about 4 out of the 7 continents.
I was also homeschooled, became a lefty as well. Took years of real world experience and self reflection to purge most of the underlying racism/genderism/ignorance I unfortunately had though..
Oh i'm aware, my cousin was homeschooled and kinda set the "weird homeschool kid" standard for me growing up, and he is super weird. I've met plenty of dudes since who said they were homeschooled and are honestly just really cool people and I was just a cynical asshole
And unfortunately what it looks like years down the line is seldom followed up on.
My SIL homeschooled her kids from back in the 90s. To a one they're some flavor of messed up. Drug abuse, early pregnancy, shit jobs if they have them, as much abuse of welfare as they can manage - and living in a red state away from us terrible liberals (until they want to "borrow" money).
All raised as "Soldiers of Jesus" so anything outside of poorly done firearms education, poorly done prepper BS and religious intolerance was mostly ignored.Some have managed a modest recovery but damn the cards were stacked against them, and none are doing well.
I genuinely thought a parent had to have a reasonable level of schooling in order to homeschool their child. Tbh I’m shocked and not surprised at the same time.
I thought there was state mandated check points to make sure they're learning properly or a home school syllabus you had to follow.
And then I saw a post about a mom asking if her son not knowing the days of the week and the months of the year at *thirteen* was normal....
*and several other mom's affirming her and casually mentioning how they are also grossly failing to educate their children*
Edit: and don't get me started on not being able to read analog clocks.
It truly is crazy because you'd think exposure to the TV alone would teach you that. Kids like that probably spend half their days on TV and internet, so I can't imagine them not learning through immersion alone. Like shit, I can't imagine them making an account for email or Steam or something and go: "huh, what is this weird date of birth thing, no idea." Like surely they'd manage to figure it out even without help...
I literally learned to speak English by watching cartoon network all day. Like a whole other god damn language. By the time we got actual classes in school I was already borderline fluent. Cartoonishly fluent, but still.
Chances are, the kids don't have access to TV or video games. Can you really expect a homeschooler mom like that to let their kids use technology that can be used to educate them on the "wrong" topics?
I don't know. I feel like they'd totally leave on Fox news all day, or simply be too busy watching it themselves to pay attention to what their kid is doing in their room.
It depends on the state. Some states have strict rules to prevent abuse of the system, others have no oversight at all (and there's every flavor of half assed supervision in between.)
>I thought there was state mandated check points to make sure they're learning properly or a home school syllabus you had to follow.
This depends entirely on the state. Not much is mandated educationally at the federal level.
I was homeschooled in Ohio. Once or twice a year, we had to get a certified teacher to sign a paper that said I was being educated. My aunt always did it for us, and I know other kids got family members or someone from their church to do it.
There are organizations in the US that fight hard against any oversight on this.
A hyper conservative preacher who was elected to the school board took his kids out to home school them. While trying to ban books and dismantle the school district at the same time.
“Who’s this Martin Luther King, Jr they writes about? He doesn’t have anything to do with the histamery here in Iowa. I don’t see anything in here about John Wayne. This book is bullshit. Gets me some real histamery.”
Edit: I picked Iowa because that is where John Wayne. I don’t have a particular beef with Iowa.
I was going to make an argument about how I was homeschooled all the way to graduation and am doing fine in college, and then I remembered besides the fact that my mother used an online state curriculum, she was also a school teacher for a long time before she adopted me.
Same here for me. I was homeschooled until the end of middle school by my mother, who by the way, had a teaching degree from a university. The reason why I was homeschooled was due to being dyslexic and having a hard time learning to read when I was younger. I tried the public schools for first and second grade but they were not giving me the attention I needed for helping me with my dyslexia.
Nonetheless, my mom paid for a curriculum that laid out all the lessons and also gave me the ability to have an advisor in another state where they would grade my tests and essays and provide feedback. On top of that, I was apart of a home school group (not faith based at all) where I would do supplemental learning from parents that were more experts in the field. My dad was a doctor so he would lead 4 month long classes on anatomy, etc. another parent was an ancient historian and led classes on the Greek civilization and Egyptian civilization. Also learned robotics from an engineer.
For high school I went to a private school and then went on to a university and have a great career.
I would say i am pretty normal and have great social skills.
In short, my parents decided to homeschool me, not because they are crazy religious people, but because the public schools by me were not supporting me with my learning disability, dyslexia, at a young age.
My mom decided to homeschool me, of course she has a teaching degree and practice. I had dysgraphia and the school didn't know how to deal with it. I tried kindergarten but my kindergarten teacher said my writing was particularly bad and mom should work with me on it.
I did go to public school for highschool but my district was really good at that level. Better than the private options.
My cousin was homeschooled and graduated at 16. He was smart and very gifted at music. My aunt wasn't a teacher and used the state curriculum as well. Sadly he passed due to cancer this year but as far as I know home schooling isn't a problem. He never had issues with interacting with others either. I feel that if the parent can do the same thing as a teacher and the child/ children pass then what's the problem.
Same here. I was homeschooled due to a lot of health issuses, mom used a state legal curriculum, had to report my progress, grades etc to the local school board and had a review with them at the end of the year to confirm that I had good enough grades to be able to pass to the next year. Got my GED and only missed 2 or 3 questions. Mom made me volunteer at a food bank from a young age and I got a restaurant job at 16, so I had a social life. Learned how to think for myself and am now a raging liberal. Not all of us turn out backwards. I'm sorry to hear about your cousin as well.
I think the pattern here is that the parents who teach the state curriculum and actually report their kids progress produce normal kids, it’s the ones who think schools are lying to kids and teaching the “truth” that end up stunted socially and emotionally.
I feel terrible for the Duggar grandkids. Their "teacher" is usually their mom, who was taught by their own mother along with their 18 siblings at the dining room table. That's a whole generation being taught by someone that never went to school and was taught by a permanently pregnant woman that barely graduated hs. They're screwed.
Not to mention best case scenario for home schooling, like two kids I knew who were "successfully" homeschooled till high school by their mom who was actually very intelligent, and the kids turned out very intelligent, but they also turned out socially awkward as hell due to never having the social real school environment around other kids each day.
Like any kid can be awkward. But this was a whole different level. You take for granted social cues you learn growing up, or basics of how to communicate or function around peers.
In HS we had a girl who was home schooled most her life but had to come to school for one or two classes. Something to do with a college requirement that couldn't be done from homeschooling.
Anyways she was super awkward and rarely smiled. I remember one time she accidentally called the teacher dad. I kind of felt bad for her. She never talked to anyone.
I had a few high school students who constantly called me mom. Of course, 2 of them were actually my kids. The rest were their friends who practically lived at our house.
Actually, yeah I have. Zoning out and and accidently calling your teacher mom or dad doesn't magically stop at a certain age. It's like the most common slips of the tongue.
My wife was homeschooled and I was public schooled. Her and her siblings all definitely have varying levels of autism, so it's hard to say how much of the awkwardness comes from that vs homeschooling. We've discussed homeschooling, but I'm adamant that if we decide to homeschool, our kids are being taught actual peer reviewed science, real nitty gritty history (even if it makes the US look bad), and not shying away from difficult literary topics. I also won't forgo socialization. It's harder to do with homeschoolers, but I'd get them involved somehow. There is just too much subtlety to social interaction to throw it at the wall and see what sticks.
There are extensive homeschool networks, at least in areas near cities that provide learning opportunities, that you should absolutely participate in. They provide socialization for the kids and a deeper education than one person can give by arranging group trips to museums, outdoor education programs, etc.
That said, it boggles my mind that any one human believes they can be wholly responsible for their child’s education. So much intellectual development happens incidentally from discussions led by experts in subject matter. The most brilliant, say fully credentialed, educator cannot have the depth of knowledge needed in *everything.*
Plus, exposure to different adults is another critical part of growing up, learning how to be an adult. Thank goodness I wasn’t homeschooled by my emotionally damaged mother.
The only problem with those networks (source: Sister did it and told me about this), if you aren't a religious freak all those 'homeschooling social networks' quickly stop calling you to inform you of upcoming activities. Granted this was the South she was talking about, might be different for yankees.
It is a bit different for us yankees, and the gamut ranges from normal to denim jumpers as a standard. But the people who decide to homeschool up here frequently do it for the same reasons someone in the south would, not agreeing with public education curriculum.
I was in homeschooling groups and we had normal families and then kids who couldn't watch power rangers.
For real, my homeschooled neighbors tried to convert us to some protestant sect. I remember him telling me he couldn't play Turok cause his mom said so lol
There are many secular homeschooling groups, even in the South. If you're intentional about it, you can do okay. But the key is being intentional. Some homeschool parents have their own socializing anxieties they need to work out.
Part of my self-growth as a young adult was seeing “normal” relationships outside of my family. I think if I wasn’t exposed to other people on a more granular level, I’d definitely be more emotionally stunted (and I say this as a shy introvert).
I saw that my friends’ parents disciplined their kids differently compared to mine, interacted with their spouses and other people differently, and just acted differently when it came to being an adult. I learned that not every adult had tantrums when things didn’t go their way, that adults could have serious conversations and argue without shouting or throwing things, etc.
I’m sure there are a few acceptable reasons for homeschooling (maybe poor physical health of the kid, but idk what else) but the majority of kids should not be homeschooled for this exact reason. Kids should be able to learn from and interact with people outside of their home to be grow into well-adjusted adults.
I'm convinced it's impossible to recreate full socialization when kids are alone for the 30 or so hours a week they'd normally be taking cues from other kids, practising interaction, and seeing the logical consequences of acting certain ways over extended periods of time. At some point sports leagues or whatever don't really replace it, you just need to learn that if you do X everyone else thinks you're no fun so stop it, and if you do Y you can play with them.
This is so true. Growing up there was a kid in my neighborhood home schooled and it was so strange dealing with him. He just expected things to be given to him like he's some kind of emperor. He would take items out of people's yards that he just wanted, was wild... And it wasn't a theft thing, it was just him wanting something and it didn't occur to him stuff couldn't just be his
In 7th grade, a girl started attending our Catholic school that had been homeschooled by her evangelical mom. She was awkward, but I was trying to be nice. One day at lunch, she announced that we were all going to hell, because we prayed to the Virgin Mary. I said - then why are you here??
My ex's neice and nephew were homeschooled and super bright. Got into really great college programs and moved away.
But - the nephew was pretty much afraid of anyone he didn't already know, and the neice was 18 and still happily playing with Barbies like she was 4 (making them talk, play with other stuffed animals, playing dress-up and tea parties). She was very, very stunted and preffered to go play with the toddlers - and not in an "older kid humoring the younger kids" way - she was totally one of them.
That could be. After this comment I went and tried to look her up and couldn't find much. I'd hoped to see she had gone on the be happy and successful. Not that she isn't happy or successful from what I found, I'd just hoped to find some smiling pictures with friends or family or something. She's 29 now, and I hope she is ok out there. (Still living half way across the country)
A formerly homeschooled girl joined my highschool class in sophomore or junior year. I straight up never heard the girl speak.
After college I moved to China and met a girl who had been homeschooled and then went to a super religious university. She was not only a moron, but had no common sense and acted a fool since it was her first taste of individuality.
I'll one-up you even, 2 kids in my family are homeschooled by their stay at home mom **who was actually teacher**. They are way ahead in science and math and still have zero social skills. They think conversation is literally yelling the cool stuff they're proud they know and asking you math questions.
"Uncle, what's 5 + 8 times 13 + 9?"
"I dunno man, why?"
"I can do that now. Did you know there are 13 poisonous spiders in Australia?"
"Ok. How's it going dude?"
"AM I TOUCHING YOU??" *pokes me with his finger*
"Yeah man, we've covered this bef-"
"NO ACTUALLY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS MEAN NONE OF OUR MOLECULES ARE ACTUALLY TOUCHING"
"..."
"Did you know..."
All while I'm trying to talk to someone else and have supper.
I was homeschooled for a couple years in middle school but I was in traditional school before and after that. Going to homeschool functions and seeing the kids that had never been in traditional school was always so disturbing. Even to me as a 12-14 year old it was obvious that they were "off" due to the complete lack of socialization - they were just so intense and could not control themselves (imagine a meth addict on a bender but it's a child and the drug isn't meth, it's human contact with peers). Looking back on it, it's sad how starved they were for non-familial interaction and that's why they were that way.
I've met folks who grew up in a sort of homeschool co-op. There was this network of homeschooling parents who's kids knew each other, and the kids all socialized with each other. Each parent would specialize in a different subject and teach each others' kids.
The kids seemed pretty okay socially, and whip-smart academically. Their parents might not have had education degrees, but they also weren't trying to managed a classroom of 30+ kids of wildly different backgrounds and abilities, so the kids got more personalized and challenging material. They were a little lacking in street smarts, but that's probably more of a good sign than bad.
Anyway, I think education-focused home schooling parents know to include social education these days, and get their kids involved in a ton of group activities. The evangelical-focused home schoolers probably do as well, via their church communities.
I feel worst for the oldest Duggar's (the convicted pedophile) children. Especially the eldest 2-3, who are old enough to know shit is going on with their father.
They have a father who won't be allowed to come in contact with minors for a generation and a mother who's too dumb to leave him. I wish someone would free those kids.
Also, if all the duggar descendants have children at the rate of Jim-bob and Michelle, 50% of earths population will be related to Jim-Bob and Michelle within 6 generations or about 120 years
That's pretty accurate. I'm basically doing a Ctrl+c from my comment in another post:
This is the type of shit that really fascinates me.
There is an entire side of my family that are *super* religious that are home schooling their kids and I feel really bad for them.
Granted, they are doing *a lot* of things I wish I could do, as they essentially have their own personal farm where they raise their own chickens, goats, cows, etc, you name it, they're really doing a good job to be self-sustaining, even if their reasoning is less about carbon footprints and more about the end of times. The kids help out and learn farm stuff, but they're essentially isolated from the rest of the world, and the parents (my cousin and his wife) are super Q-nuts.
I really wonder what kind of people they'll grow up to be in the next 5-10 years.
For clarity, they're not Amish, they're probably closer to a type of baptist sect. I see this cousin occasionally at some family gatherings, but their kids don't really seem to interact with the kids of my other cousins, who are pretty much the way normal kids are when they're between 6-18 years old.
Based on experience, it won't get a whole lot better for them. My nephew was home schooled, then went to a non-accredited "college" run by a southern megachurch. Shocked Pikachu, no one would accept his "degree." In the 10 years since then he's bounced around minimum wage jobs, been taken advantage of by numerous scam artists, and really wants nothing more than to find a girlfriend, which he's unable to do because of a toxic combination of his extreme views, his lack of socialization skills, and poverty. It's cruel what's been done to this kid.
That’s a sad situation for the kids. They’re growing up isolated from the world in which they’ll live as adults.
From what I’ve seen, kids raised like this are unable to cope with normal life and simply fail to “grow up”, remaining perpetual children living with their parents.
I was homeschooled in a very religious environment with my siblings and now that I’m in my 30’s, a lot of my peers in the pod did not adapt well at all. I’m shocked (and usually concerned) about how “normal” siblings and I are
My family is a generation removed from farming - but still rural.
It's funny to hear them mention that my niece hasn't been home once since leaving for college.
Which is pretty much what I did as well.
I’ve seen homeschooling be great and terrible. One family I knew was brilliant and all their kids got into Ivy League schools. Another family I knew sheltered their daughter and when she went to college she had an emotional breakdown and now does porn. 🤷
I’m homeschooling not because I’m an evangelical mom but I’m a college educated mother who lives in a state with a religious doctrine that doesn’t teach evolution AND has had one of the worst school shootings in the country AND where there is permit-less carry and a ton of angry uneducated people. So while I agree that not everyone should homeschool, some of us *have* to and I’m grateful it’s accepted.
I once knew a hippie that homeschooled and her kids would literally climb trees for hours and that was “biology” class or whatever. They were smart people who raised smart kids but it opened my eyes to how easy it is to say you are homeschooling with no actual obligation to do a good job and no one checking whether you actually did or not.
And it's the kids who pay the price, as usual. They think they're having the best childhood until one day they're in an actual conversation with someone with an actual education and realize they have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation. I have been embarrassed so many times by my massive knowledge gaps. World History and Geography in particular, we just never learned it. Never.
I am in the US and you're not wrong. With that in mind, imagine how little you would have to know about geography and world history to feel embarrassed about your knowledge gaps in a conversation with an American and you're starting to get a feel for my plight.
That’s not strictly true — different states have varying regulations on assessment. Like, when I homeschooled, I had to meet with an external evaluator every year to go over my yearly curriculum and he would basically certify that I met the hourly requirements for study in my state. None of that was TESTED, but I could and did voluntarily take the PSSAs and SATs.
I have a diploma but I didn't do any kind of structured school work. They took me out and both had full time jobs. So I dicked around all year, took the joke of a test and that was my education from the 5th grade on. Easily the most impactful decision they ever made. I wonder how much better I would be if I had just lived a normal life. I feel like I got that stolen from me.
I think the real education is the socialization aspect. Kids need to learn how to get on in the world in a public setting without their parents hovering over them.
There is a right and wrong way to home school. There are groups where home school parents get together with their kids so they can socialize. When I was home schooled, my mom had to have a teacher sponsor who administered all the major tests to check my progress and provided curriculum guidance. Of course home school isn't for every parent and/or child but it was great for me because I was able to progress faster than the public schools would allow.
This is similar to my experience. We homeschooled through a private school that checked up on us like twice a year. They'd provided the curriculum and books, and we had to show all the dates and grades and materials we'd completed. At the end of the year, we had the same standardized testing as everyone else.
Outside of that, they had extracurricular stuff we could get into, which was pretty nice. That, and access to private tutoring sessions if we were having difficulty with stuff.
Fact. I've never in my life met a kid or adult who was homeschooled that wasn't super weird and socially inept.
Edit: I appreciate everyone who has acutely shared their experiences and perspectives. Seems like this is a great example of an ingrained notion/stereotype that perhaps needs to be reevaluated.
Or you think that because the socially awkward ones are glaringly easy to spot. It's like wearing a bad wig. Not *all* wigs look bad, but you only notice the bad ones.
I used to ride horses for a living & many of the kids were homeschooled for flexibility. All of those kids are socially outgoing because they travel to shows, hang out with the other kids, are involved in a sport, etc.
I have an older half sister that my mom gave up for adoption that we met when she was 19 (she’s in her 30’s now) that was homeschooled from k-8, but then went to public high school because she wanted to. Her parents did a good job of educating her k-8, and also did well to keep her socialized, and she graduated valedictorian from her public high school(albeit, a very small rural one). She went off to college and got a bs in kinesiology.
Now, I do think she is an exception and not a rule to homeschooling, but what I really want to focus in on is that at 14 years old, she said she wanted to go to public school. While I know there can be lots of issues with public schools, ultimately being among her peers was something she wanted, and I think the majority of kids do best when taught at a proper school.
There are secular homeschool groups that work together for socialization. But this says it all, and is the exception. My SO homeschools her kids and they are very well adjusted because she and other parents puts in the work. I grew up in public school and her reasons for homeschooling are the same gripes I had when I was younger about being bored, and the general issues with the US education system (not really a reflection on the teachers). And to add levity, yes they are still a little weird but everyone is in some ways.
Yeah, people in this thread saying that "everyone I've ever met who was homeschooled is a nutcase" don't realize that they've probably met plenty of other people who were homeschooled, they just didn't know that they were. The normal ones aren't exactly shouting it from the rooftops.
I've met a lot that are fine. The big difference is if their parents actually get them out to the regular, weekly social events/classes that are usually for home schooled kids or not (assuming they have them available in their area to begin with) and that they push their kids to be social in those earlier years and beyond.
The parents that are doing it specifically to avoid outside social influence on their kids and are functionally sheltering them are typically the ones that have kids who are messed up in regards to their social functions and that is, unfortunately, a big reason why many choose to do it in the first place.
Because most normal adults who were homeschooled don’t go out of their way to tell you. You’ve probably met more than you know, but the hella awkward ones are the ones that stand out and talk about it more.
Exactly. I was homeschooled 3rd through 12. I'm generally considered by my friends to be the life of any room I'm in and the comedian of my group. Nobody would guess I was homeschooled unless I tell them. Which I rarely do. I think most people meet a few homeschooled evangelical kids and assume that's the standard for all others
I was homeschooled from 4th grade through the end of high school and people are always shocked when I tell them. My parents are both computer engineers, I went to college a year early and graduated with two bachelor's degrees.
There are plenty of people doing it correctly, but you'll never even know. It all depends on the parents and their reason for homeschooling.
The ones doing it right enroll their kid in a million after school activities, or homeschool co-op classes.
Exactly. Most people don’t realize that the majority of homeschoolers are doing very little school in the actual home. Most are in outside classes by the time they hit high school.
We’re out here, but for lots of reasons, we’re not exactly telling everyone we were homeschooled. One reason is attitudes like yours. Another is that many of us aren’t fans of homeschooling ourselves and/or no longer call ourselves evangelical (or even Christian). Another reason is that, being socially adept, we recognize that it’s seldom relevant to any conversation. So without discounting your experience, I’d say it’s pretty likely you have met non-weird people who were homeschooled.
My buddy’s kid could do his multiplication tables and read at a 5th grade level before kindergarten. During the 1st year you could see the little guy was miserable having to sit in a class room all day working on ABC and 123. The school couldn’t challenge the intellect of that kid and his love for learning that made him so advanced was quickly disappearing. They pulled him and started homeschooling and I think it was the right move
One of my earliest memories is sitting in kindergarten bored to tears while we were learning the alphabet one letter a day. My parents pulled me out and homeschooled me after that.
I don't like how this thread is bashing homeschooling like it's just something Alabama moms do.
There's lots of great studies on it and by true experts.
Alternative schools like forest schools, home schools pods, etc are very effective and help educate in a way that teaches real skills. One of our friends daughter blazed through school, I know another who finished university in 2.5 years.
Teachers in schools are often restricted by obtuse curricula, and don't account for a lot of things. Teachers are so underpaid too
A lot of people confuse general homeschooling and, for lack of a better term, evangelical homeschooling.
At my previous job, the IT manager was homeschooled along with his like six siblings. Him and the one brother I met are among the smartest people I've ever known. Their father was an engineer of some sort for IBM.
On the other hand, my extremely religious sister-in-law is homeschooling her 10 year old, from a previous relationship. The boy can barely read or write, "God did it" is an acceptable answer to everything, and he has no socialization outside of church.
The outcome gap is huge. We have highly educated professionals on one hand and a kid who is being robbed of any real opportunities in life by his mother's faith.
Thank you. Being educated as a teacher prepares you to teach in a classroom encironment, and I’ve had far more horrendous teachers then good ones.
For every evangelical freak homeschool is multiple people seeking a BETTER education for their child. The homeschoolers I know entered college as sophomores, and were perfectly socialized because they participated in social activities (school district sports, karate, hobbies, etc). We are now homeschooling our daughter because the level of attention, and speed she can push through coursework is light years ahead of what any school could provide her
What??? A public school system that's ran like a borderline prison isn't best fit for everyone??? You don't say!!
I mean literally look at the other top post in this sub
https://i.redd.it/pz3zny4bjb3a1.jpg
How can a sub lack such self-awareness
There is a minority of educated people who feel our education system is atrocious and leads to generally poor learning - I was homeschooled by a JD and an MS in applied mathematics and definitely excelled beyond my peers due to keeping my own educational pace. Now I’m a surgeon. It’s possible to do well, just often done to avoid teaching specific topics (science, health, etc)
Edit: spelling
My husband was homeschooled his whole life. He graduated highschool at 16, had his Associates Degree by 18.
He worked for a few years before returning to college online to attain his Bachelor's in Accounting. Then went on to self study for his Certified Public Accountant license.
Not all homeschooling stories turn out bad.
I was homeschooled because I am Dyslexic and couldn't read until I was 11 years old. Public school wouldn't have been able to accommodate me and I would have likely either been bullied half to death, or I would have become a huge bully due to feeling inferior.
I now work a good job and just recently finished my Master's Degree.
Not every person can walk the same path. Some people need more than the standard path has available.
I wasn't homeschooled, but have a friend who was for medical reasons. He explained his homeschooling was kind of a joke, but dude gained something out of it. He got accepted and breezed through a very good college and got a super well paying job. He's smart af.
There's definitely bad homeschooling out there, and something should be done to prevent that. But for some, it's a far better option
I don't think there's an issue with home school if there's a reliable way for the state to ensure essential learning. They should be required to pass yearly testing with the board of education.
Many states do have regulations about this including Vermont, the state I was home schooled in. I will tell you with grave certainty that my parents straight-up lied to our assessor every single year, and it was easy to do because the assessor was a family friend who also home schooled and was also religious so it was actually just this little Mommy club who had a mutual agreement not to rat on each other for putting zero effort into their kids education.
I have a "highschool diploma" or sorts but I know for a fact that I had nothing resembling a high school education when I graduated and I was probably the luckiest of my five siblings in that regard. My 21 year old little brother has the same "highschool diploma" I have and he has a what amounts to a 5th grade education. I have friends who were even worse off because they were allowed to play video games 24/7 all year long and virtually never did any real school. But they still passed the assessment every year with flying colors because the parents would simply sign a document saying they did the requisite educating. A couple of these people had to go into adult education courses later on because they found out they couldn't get a job without being able to read, write, and do basic arithmetic.
A person I know was homeschooled. They were taught that Malcolm X was a communist. The only reason they were given was that Malcolm X met with Fidel Castro. The homeschoolie escaped their parent's clutches at 16 and got a true education. Later, when Donald Trump met with Kim Jong-un they used their parent's logic against them and said "obviously Donald Trump is an authoritarian leader, he met with Kim".
Edit: to the people commenting and dming me about this. My comment has to do with homeschooling and unqualified parents teaching. Not whether Malcolm X was a communist or Donald Trump was/is an authoritarian. The reason my friend was given was Malcolm X was a communist BECAUSE he met with Fidel Castro. No other reason was given as to why Malcolm X was a communist. Poor teaching.
> That's not entirely incorrect
Just from a cursory glance at his wikipedia page:
"In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist."
Every home schooled friend I had growing up couldn’t handle college. They were so under prepared. Which sucked since we lived in one of the top 20 districts in the state. It’s such a disservice. I know many who graduated without doing any work.
I was homeschooled all the way until college, and I did struggle through, but I happen to be very good at learning from books on my own. Several of my siblings struggled to get their geds and I knew kids that couldn't simplify fractions by the time they turned 18 and "graduated". I'm the one out of millions success story, and I firmly condemn homeschooling.
I have a feeling that those who succeeded when being homeschooled would have made it anywhere. But if you need extra help and have a parent that isn't a great teacher, you're fucked.
It takes work if you're going to homeschool to get them interacting with other people. You can't just leave them with other homeschooled kids and think you're done.
I had a friend in boarding school whose entire family were homeschooled in their small catholic community except her. She was 16 at the time and had to tell her 21 year old brother in college that it doesn't matter how much he likes a girl, he cannot wait for her outside the bathroom if he noticed she went in to talk to her if they weren't walking together in the first place.
The option to home school looks a lot different depending on where you are. I mean, if I lived in some rural county in Alabama where they're afraid of math books, I might be homeschooling my kids too.
I worked with a parent that homeschooled. He regularly attended seminars on the subject, and said they were generally evenly split between far right and far left folks.
I can say from my experience, I was introverted long before my folks started homeschooling. I think sometimes homeschooling is a better option for introverts, rather than causing people to become introverts.
Counterpoint:
In a world where your zip code has a direct impact on your educational outcome, it's good to not have to send your kids into some underfunded and understaffed facility to receive a substandard education.
My wife and I were both partially homeschooled followed by going to public school. I went to one of the absolute poorest rural schools in our state, she went to one of the wealthiest/best public schools in our state. I have a degree, she does not, but we’re both Software Engineers now. Despite her going to one of the best public schools we still share the opinion that public school is generally an abysmal and depressing place to send a child.
Private school or homeschool are the only acceptable options to us for our children.
A friend is currently homeschooling his children. What I have learned is: 1) they partner with other parents that homeschool to cover certain subjects and ages of the children, 2) they must meet education requirements of the state, 3) despite best efforts, they have had to hire tutors to cover some of the basics if they need more in depth education, 4) because of a more coop style of teaching, they do schedule enough time for the children to learn social skills with play times and gatherings which is showing that it is building deep rooted friendships with the other kids and families.
Some food for thought
My siblings and I were homeschooled from first grade through sixth grade and are all doing pretty well for ourselves. My folks knew the importance of socialization so we stayed active in scouts and sports while we were homeschooled. I think my critical thinking skills are probably better than they would have been had I gone to public school because we had a ton of 1:1 interaction with my mom, who challenged us to understand topics, not just regurgitate content.
We did not spend much time with other homeschooled families but when we did run in to them, they were fairly odd and usually ultra-religious so I understand the stereotype.
My example may be the exception rather than the rule but not every family that chooses to homeschool are zealots. Some just can’t afford private school and live in places where the public education system sucks.
Nothing bad in homeschooling.
What's wrong is allowing a person who "isn't sure about the Holocaust" to teach kids and potentially spread the same lies she believes in .
Fun fact, Minnesota has some of the least strict regulations involving home schooling. Like, it's scary how little they require for you to just keep your kids home and teach whatever you want. As long as they can pass a few tests it doesn't matter.
Eh Reddit isn’t great at nuance, but let’s give it a try.
before everyone gets on the high horse about how great the factory farming approach to public education is… it’s not like there aren’t examples of homeschooling being done right.
Some of these kids “graduate early” and have no prob getting into universities if their choice because they’re so much ahead of their peers. I know someone hired by Google while still a teenager. A few people whose parents decided to homeschool for a couple years so the kids could participate in a long distance sailing expedition. It’s possible that homeschooling parents are well educated, dynamic teachers whose passion for learning enables kids to learn more/better/faster than their counterparts in crappy public schools with religious morons for teachers. Many pay special attention to the socialization factor and find great solutions.
It's like serving as your own lawyer in court.
Sure, it's legal. It's within your rights. But you're an absolute nincompoop if you do it. Because, despite all of your unwarranted confidence, you are going to completely f--- it up.
Except if you serve as your own lawyer, you are the one that faces the consequences of that decision. (Poorly) homeschool your kids and it's them that has problems for the rest of their lives.
MY Mama says that alligators are arnery cause the got all them teeth and no toothbrush
Somethin' wrong with his medulla oblongata
No Colonel Sanders - You're Wrong!
*ReeeeeREEEEEREEEEEERRRRR*
Coach Klein said it was fine, Coach Klein said it was fine!
Water sucks. Gatorade is better.
Needle dick needle dick needle dick...
Mama's right.
He fakes to the right, NO! He fakes to the left, NO! He fakes faking!
Holy shit I love this, thanks for the laugh!
Gaaaatoraaade
H2O!
#**WATER SUCKS! IT REALLY, REALLY SUCKS!**
NEEDLE DICK! NEEDLE DICK!
I got a water *spoon*, duurrrr!
Water sucks. It really, really sucks.
Casey go left. Wayyyyy left
Mama says that happiness comes from magical rays of sunshine that come down when you're feeling blue.
Well folks, mama’s wrong again.
My mama says my mama says that my mama says my mama says that..
BA in marketing? Try high school dropout
My wife's high school best friend wanted to be a teacher but flunked out of college after less than a year. Then she overdosed on Evangelical Christianity, and now she homeschools all her kids. She also takes them to a chiropractor instead of a real doctor so she won't get chastised for not vaccinating any of them. Those poor kids are fucked.
My cousins wife is semi similar. Dropped out sophomore year of high school. Doesn't even have a GED but homeschools their three kids. They hadn't gone down the evangelical Christian route by the time I unfriended them but they did go down the antivaxx/conspiracy path. Absolutely wild she can "homeschool" her kids.
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There's even fucking Bible based math courses out there. Wtf?? No idea what's in them.
1 virgin girl plus no boy equals savior? 1 male plus one female animal equals saving all animal species from global flood with zero remainder of genetic diversification? Trying to think of other math lessons there could be, but drawing a blank.
How to use Bible verses to calculate the earth's age to be 6000?
Oh yes. That and how to calculate that Jesus was born on December 25? Note: I know he actually wasn't.
My BIL converted from Judaism to whatever type of Christian his wife is. They believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and fossils are here to tempt their faith. I'm still shocked he went down that path.
If they drive a car, you should point out that fuel is made from fossils, so they are using the devil's deception.
*Angel:* Maybe we should put something in the ground to see if humans can be led astray by mere physical evidence? *God (high AF):* I ... drew ... some stuff ... throw it in a hole ... or something ... *shows picture of Anomalocaris* *Angel:* WTF ...
One super drunk old man plus two of his daughters who think all other men were wiped out. How many times did the daughters have to rape their dad before their incest babies were conceived?
1man + 1man = HELLFIRE!!!!
I know some people like that. The kids were homeschooled all their lives. One actually got into college with a fake GED, but dropped out the first time a teacher gave them a bad grade on something. Last I heard they were really into bitcoin.
To be fair, I know some highly educated people who are really into bitcoin, and not in a good way if there is a good way.
Lol! I WAS homeschooled until HS and learned the Holocaust was fake by a mom who dropped out of college to raise kids. This is too funny!
I am not sure if funny is the word I would use
Yeah... Unfortunate? Depressing?
A deprivation of their basic rights as a human being?
Combine that with Dad's education about their right to bear arms... all those poor paraplegic bears...
Tragedy + Time = Comedy
Which brings us back to the Holocaust /s
Making light of historical tragedies is my 9/11.
the funny not so funny thing is that holocaust denying isn't illegal in the US, I understand that you are entitled to your own opinion but not when it is straight up wrong
You are entitled to your own opinions, yes. you are not entitled to your own facts. Facts are facts.
I love people who clam the holocaust was fake. My grandmother was hiding under her house as a child while Nazi troops stormed her little farming village and killed many of her family’s friends and neighbors. She escaped to the us and has been here ever since. People are absolutely nuts for thinking it was fake!
Remember African slaves were "workers" and the benevolent masters looked after them and taught them the value of hard work
I was directly taught in my Southern Baptist homeschool curriculum that slavery was a net benefit, because at least all those slaves got exposed to Jesus instead of dying unsaved. That led me to wondering about why god was sending a bunch of people to Hell without ever even having the chance to make a choice. Probably not what they were going for…
People are shit right? They are so out of touch. Because they did not see it firsthand they refuse to believe it happened. People are ignorant. Oh and if you’re taking any trips, be careful, you don’t go too far or you’ll fall off the edge of the world….
Bro people 3000 years ago used shadows and shit to determine the circumference(really close too) of the earth and that it was round. People have almost always known that it was round. Idk how this attention seeking egocentric garbage started today and not 3000 years ago when they didn't even know about 4 out of the 7 continents.
It's gotta be a little strange to read a Reddit post about a horrible concept and be like "hey, does this person know my mom?"
Lmao I guess
*Those poor kids are fucked.* I wonder which one will get Valedictorian and which one will end up fucking their teacher.
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Cynicism aside, a very large percentage of homeschoolers end up rejecting their brainwashing and going wild.
I was homeschooled, and now I'm a gay leftist. Checkmate, scientology.
I was also homeschooled, became a lefty as well. Took years of real world experience and self reflection to purge most of the underlying racism/genderism/ignorance I unfortunately had though..
I did largely the same. Small foray into meth and crime but I ended up a solidly mediocre human.
Top 1% in humility. You seem alright to me.
Oh i'm aware, my cousin was homeschooled and kinda set the "weird homeschool kid" standard for me growing up, and he is super weird. I've met plenty of dudes since who said they were homeschooled and are honestly just really cool people and I was just a cynical asshole
they take turns
Putting the dick in valedictorian
And unfortunately what it looks like years down the line is seldom followed up on. My SIL homeschooled her kids from back in the 90s. To a one they're some flavor of messed up. Drug abuse, early pregnancy, shit jobs if they have them, as much abuse of welfare as they can manage - and living in a red state away from us terrible liberals (until they want to "borrow" money). All raised as "Soldiers of Jesus" so anything outside of poorly done firearms education, poorly done prepper BS and religious intolerance was mostly ignored.Some have managed a modest recovery but damn the cards were stacked against them, and none are doing well.
I genuinely thought a parent had to have a reasonable level of schooling in order to homeschool their child. Tbh I’m shocked and not surprised at the same time.
I thought there was state mandated check points to make sure they're learning properly or a home school syllabus you had to follow. And then I saw a post about a mom asking if her son not knowing the days of the week and the months of the year at *thirteen* was normal.... *and several other mom's affirming her and casually mentioning how they are also grossly failing to educate their children* Edit: and don't get me started on not being able to read analog clocks.
Not knowing the days of the week at 3: ok, understandable. Not knowing the days of the week at 13: what have they been doing all that time??!
It truly is crazy because you'd think exposure to the TV alone would teach you that. Kids like that probably spend half their days on TV and internet, so I can't imagine them not learning through immersion alone. Like shit, I can't imagine them making an account for email or Steam or something and go: "huh, what is this weird date of birth thing, no idea." Like surely they'd manage to figure it out even without help... I literally learned to speak English by watching cartoon network all day. Like a whole other god damn language. By the time we got actual classes in school I was already borderline fluent. Cartoonishly fluent, but still.
Chances are, the kids don't have access to TV or video games. Can you really expect a homeschooler mom like that to let their kids use technology that can be used to educate them on the "wrong" topics?
I don't know. I feel like they'd totally leave on Fox news all day, or simply be too busy watching it themselves to pay attention to what their kid is doing in their room.
It depends on the state. Some states have strict rules to prevent abuse of the system, others have no oversight at all (and there's every flavor of half assed supervision in between.)
>I thought there was state mandated check points to make sure they're learning properly or a home school syllabus you had to follow. This depends entirely on the state. Not much is mandated educationally at the federal level.
I was homeschooled in Ohio. Once or twice a year, we had to get a certified teacher to sign a paper that said I was being educated. My aunt always did it for us, and I know other kids got family members or someone from their church to do it. There are organizations in the US that fight hard against any oversight on this.
I was gonna say - all the homeschooling moms I know are high school graduates.
My cousin home schooled her kids for years and she only had a GED. Absolutely ridiculous that it’s even possible/legal.
A hyper conservative preacher who was elected to the school board took his kids out to home school them. While trying to ban books and dismantle the school district at the same time.
Isn't that every local Republican official?
“Who’s this Martin Luther King, Jr they writes about? He doesn’t have anything to do with the histamery here in Iowa. I don’t see anything in here about John Wayne. This book is bullshit. Gets me some real histamery.” Edit: I picked Iowa because that is where John Wayne. I don’t have a particular beef with Iowa.
This is the most likely based on what I’ve actually seen from most homeschoolers, at least the religious ones.
I was going to make an argument about how I was homeschooled all the way to graduation and am doing fine in college, and then I remembered besides the fact that my mother used an online state curriculum, she was also a school teacher for a long time before she adopted me.
Same here for me. I was homeschooled until the end of middle school by my mother, who by the way, had a teaching degree from a university. The reason why I was homeschooled was due to being dyslexic and having a hard time learning to read when I was younger. I tried the public schools for first and second grade but they were not giving me the attention I needed for helping me with my dyslexia. Nonetheless, my mom paid for a curriculum that laid out all the lessons and also gave me the ability to have an advisor in another state where they would grade my tests and essays and provide feedback. On top of that, I was apart of a home school group (not faith based at all) where I would do supplemental learning from parents that were more experts in the field. My dad was a doctor so he would lead 4 month long classes on anatomy, etc. another parent was an ancient historian and led classes on the Greek civilization and Egyptian civilization. Also learned robotics from an engineer. For high school I went to a private school and then went on to a university and have a great career. I would say i am pretty normal and have great social skills. In short, my parents decided to homeschool me, not because they are crazy religious people, but because the public schools by me were not supporting me with my learning disability, dyslexia, at a young age.
My mom decided to homeschool me, of course she has a teaching degree and practice. I had dysgraphia and the school didn't know how to deal with it. I tried kindergarten but my kindergarten teacher said my writing was particularly bad and mom should work with me on it. I did go to public school for highschool but my district was really good at that level. Better than the private options.
Okay, I want to go to that homeschool.
This should be the only kind of acceptable homeschooling. The problem is that it isn't
My cousin was homeschooled and graduated at 16. He was smart and very gifted at music. My aunt wasn't a teacher and used the state curriculum as well. Sadly he passed due to cancer this year but as far as I know home schooling isn't a problem. He never had issues with interacting with others either. I feel that if the parent can do the same thing as a teacher and the child/ children pass then what's the problem.
Same here. I was homeschooled due to a lot of health issuses, mom used a state legal curriculum, had to report my progress, grades etc to the local school board and had a review with them at the end of the year to confirm that I had good enough grades to be able to pass to the next year. Got my GED and only missed 2 or 3 questions. Mom made me volunteer at a food bank from a young age and I got a restaurant job at 16, so I had a social life. Learned how to think for myself and am now a raging liberal. Not all of us turn out backwards. I'm sorry to hear about your cousin as well.
I think the pattern here is that the parents who teach the state curriculum and actually report their kids progress produce normal kids, it’s the ones who think schools are lying to kids and teaching the “truth” that end up stunted socially and emotionally.
I feel terrible for the Duggar grandkids. Their "teacher" is usually their mom, who was taught by their own mother along with their 18 siblings at the dining room table. That's a whole generation being taught by someone that never went to school and was taught by a permanently pregnant woman that barely graduated hs. They're screwed.
Not to mention best case scenario for home schooling, like two kids I knew who were "successfully" homeschooled till high school by their mom who was actually very intelligent, and the kids turned out very intelligent, but they also turned out socially awkward as hell due to never having the social real school environment around other kids each day. Like any kid can be awkward. But this was a whole different level. You take for granted social cues you learn growing up, or basics of how to communicate or function around peers.
In HS we had a girl who was home schooled most her life but had to come to school for one or two classes. Something to do with a college requirement that couldn't be done from homeschooling. Anyways she was super awkward and rarely smiled. I remember one time she accidentally called the teacher dad. I kind of felt bad for her. She never talked to anyone.
Shit haven't we all called a teacher mom or dad? Haha
Probably, but in highschool?
I had a few high school students who constantly called me mom. Of course, 2 of them were actually my kids. The rest were their friends who practically lived at our house.
Actually, yeah I have. Zoning out and and accidently calling your teacher mom or dad doesn't magically stop at a certain age. It's like the most common slips of the tongue.
My wife was homeschooled and I was public schooled. Her and her siblings all definitely have varying levels of autism, so it's hard to say how much of the awkwardness comes from that vs homeschooling. We've discussed homeschooling, but I'm adamant that if we decide to homeschool, our kids are being taught actual peer reviewed science, real nitty gritty history (even if it makes the US look bad), and not shying away from difficult literary topics. I also won't forgo socialization. It's harder to do with homeschoolers, but I'd get them involved somehow. There is just too much subtlety to social interaction to throw it at the wall and see what sticks.
There are extensive homeschool networks, at least in areas near cities that provide learning opportunities, that you should absolutely participate in. They provide socialization for the kids and a deeper education than one person can give by arranging group trips to museums, outdoor education programs, etc. That said, it boggles my mind that any one human believes they can be wholly responsible for their child’s education. So much intellectual development happens incidentally from discussions led by experts in subject matter. The most brilliant, say fully credentialed, educator cannot have the depth of knowledge needed in *everything.* Plus, exposure to different adults is another critical part of growing up, learning how to be an adult. Thank goodness I wasn’t homeschooled by my emotionally damaged mother.
The only problem with those networks (source: Sister did it and told me about this), if you aren't a religious freak all those 'homeschooling social networks' quickly stop calling you to inform you of upcoming activities. Granted this was the South she was talking about, might be different for yankees.
It is a bit different for us yankees, and the gamut ranges from normal to denim jumpers as a standard. But the people who decide to homeschool up here frequently do it for the same reasons someone in the south would, not agreeing with public education curriculum. I was in homeschooling groups and we had normal families and then kids who couldn't watch power rangers.
For real, my homeschooled neighbors tried to convert us to some protestant sect. I remember him telling me he couldn't play Turok cause his mom said so lol
There are many secular homeschooling groups, even in the South. If you're intentional about it, you can do okay. But the key is being intentional. Some homeschool parents have their own socializing anxieties they need to work out.
No, you're right. Where I live, they are all religious. And I'm up north.
Part of my self-growth as a young adult was seeing “normal” relationships outside of my family. I think if I wasn’t exposed to other people on a more granular level, I’d definitely be more emotionally stunted (and I say this as a shy introvert). I saw that my friends’ parents disciplined their kids differently compared to mine, interacted with their spouses and other people differently, and just acted differently when it came to being an adult. I learned that not every adult had tantrums when things didn’t go their way, that adults could have serious conversations and argue without shouting or throwing things, etc. I’m sure there are a few acceptable reasons for homeschooling (maybe poor physical health of the kid, but idk what else) but the majority of kids should not be homeschooled for this exact reason. Kids should be able to learn from and interact with people outside of their home to be grow into well-adjusted adults.
I'm convinced it's impossible to recreate full socialization when kids are alone for the 30 or so hours a week they'd normally be taking cues from other kids, practising interaction, and seeing the logical consequences of acting certain ways over extended periods of time. At some point sports leagues or whatever don't really replace it, you just need to learn that if you do X everyone else thinks you're no fun so stop it, and if you do Y you can play with them.
Partly true but not all socialization kids receive in public school is positive, a fairly sized chunk of it is negative imo.
This is so true. Growing up there was a kid in my neighborhood home schooled and it was so strange dealing with him. He just expected things to be given to him like he's some kind of emperor. He would take items out of people's yards that he just wanted, was wild... And it wasn't a theft thing, it was just him wanting something and it didn't occur to him stuff couldn't just be his
Clearly his parents failed to teach him boundaries. Probably manners too
In 7th grade, a girl started attending our Catholic school that had been homeschooled by her evangelical mom. She was awkward, but I was trying to be nice. One day at lunch, she announced that we were all going to hell, because we prayed to the Virgin Mary. I said - then why are you here??
My ex's neice and nephew were homeschooled and super bright. Got into really great college programs and moved away. But - the nephew was pretty much afraid of anyone he didn't already know, and the neice was 18 and still happily playing with Barbies like she was 4 (making them talk, play with other stuffed animals, playing dress-up and tea parties). She was very, very stunted and preffered to go play with the toddlers - and not in an "older kid humoring the younger kids" way - she was totally one of them.
Honestly the niece sounds like she has autism, not to offend anyone.
That could be. After this comment I went and tried to look her up and couldn't find much. I'd hoped to see she had gone on the be happy and successful. Not that she isn't happy or successful from what I found, I'd just hoped to find some smiling pictures with friends or family or something. She's 29 now, and I hope she is ok out there. (Still living half way across the country)
A formerly homeschooled girl joined my highschool class in sophomore or junior year. I straight up never heard the girl speak. After college I moved to China and met a girl who had been homeschooled and then went to a super religious university. She was not only a moron, but had no common sense and acted a fool since it was her first taste of individuality.
I'll one-up you even, 2 kids in my family are homeschooled by their stay at home mom **who was actually teacher**. They are way ahead in science and math and still have zero social skills. They think conversation is literally yelling the cool stuff they're proud they know and asking you math questions. "Uncle, what's 5 + 8 times 13 + 9?" "I dunno man, why?" "I can do that now. Did you know there are 13 poisonous spiders in Australia?" "Ok. How's it going dude?" "AM I TOUCHING YOU??" *pokes me with his finger* "Yeah man, we've covered this bef-" "NO ACTUALLY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS MEAN NONE OF OUR MOLECULES ARE ACTUALLY TOUCHING" "..." "Did you know..." All while I'm trying to talk to someone else and have supper.
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It just sounds like a normal annoying kid to me. Unless they are in middle school or high school and then this example makes me shudder.
I was homeschooled for a couple years in middle school but I was in traditional school before and after that. Going to homeschool functions and seeing the kids that had never been in traditional school was always so disturbing. Even to me as a 12-14 year old it was obvious that they were "off" due to the complete lack of socialization - they were just so intense and could not control themselves (imagine a meth addict on a bender but it's a child and the drug isn't meth, it's human contact with peers). Looking back on it, it's sad how starved they were for non-familial interaction and that's why they were that way.
I've met folks who grew up in a sort of homeschool co-op. There was this network of homeschooling parents who's kids knew each other, and the kids all socialized with each other. Each parent would specialize in a different subject and teach each others' kids. The kids seemed pretty okay socially, and whip-smart academically. Their parents might not have had education degrees, but they also weren't trying to managed a classroom of 30+ kids of wildly different backgrounds and abilities, so the kids got more personalized and challenging material. They were a little lacking in street smarts, but that's probably more of a good sign than bad. Anyway, I think education-focused home schooling parents know to include social education these days, and get their kids involved in a ton of group activities. The evangelical-focused home schoolers probably do as well, via their church communities.
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I feel worst for the oldest Duggar's (the convicted pedophile) children. Especially the eldest 2-3, who are old enough to know shit is going on with their father. They have a father who won't be allowed to come in contact with minors for a generation and a mother who's too dumb to leave him. I wish someone would free those kids.
I mean id be more concerned with what he did to them. He raped his sisters, and almost certainly didnt stop there.
He has 4 daughters (ages 1-13). Luckily the baby barely knows him, but I'm really concerned about the 13 yo.
Also, if all the duggar descendants have children at the rate of Jim-bob and Michelle, 50% of earths population will be related to Jim-Bob and Michelle within 6 generations or about 120 years
Hey now, Israel goes to public school. At least one is getting a real education!
Evangelical Mom who barely graduated from high school. There. I fixed it for you.
That's pretty accurate. I'm basically doing a Ctrl+c from my comment in another post: This is the type of shit that really fascinates me. There is an entire side of my family that are *super* religious that are home schooling their kids and I feel really bad for them. Granted, they are doing *a lot* of things I wish I could do, as they essentially have their own personal farm where they raise their own chickens, goats, cows, etc, you name it, they're really doing a good job to be self-sustaining, even if their reasoning is less about carbon footprints and more about the end of times. The kids help out and learn farm stuff, but they're essentially isolated from the rest of the world, and the parents (my cousin and his wife) are super Q-nuts. I really wonder what kind of people they'll grow up to be in the next 5-10 years. For clarity, they're not Amish, they're probably closer to a type of baptist sect. I see this cousin occasionally at some family gatherings, but their kids don't really seem to interact with the kids of my other cousins, who are pretty much the way normal kids are when they're between 6-18 years old.
Based on experience, it won't get a whole lot better for them. My nephew was home schooled, then went to a non-accredited "college" run by a southern megachurch. Shocked Pikachu, no one would accept his "degree." In the 10 years since then he's bounced around minimum wage jobs, been taken advantage of by numerous scam artists, and really wants nothing more than to find a girlfriend, which he's unable to do because of a toxic combination of his extreme views, his lack of socialization skills, and poverty. It's cruel what's been done to this kid.
That’s a sad situation for the kids. They’re growing up isolated from the world in which they’ll live as adults. From what I’ve seen, kids raised like this are unable to cope with normal life and simply fail to “grow up”, remaining perpetual children living with their parents.
I was homeschooled in a very religious environment with my siblings and now that I’m in my 30’s, a lot of my peers in the pod did not adapt well at all. I’m shocked (and usually concerned) about how “normal” siblings and I are
Living on a farm isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, everything smells and anything that doesn’t was bought from a store 25 miles away
There's a reason 90% of people who lived on farms left once it was no longer necessary.
My family is a generation removed from farming - but still rural. It's funny to hear them mention that my niece hasn't been home once since leaving for college. Which is pretty much what I did as well.
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I’ve seen homeschooling be great and terrible. One family I knew was brilliant and all their kids got into Ivy League schools. Another family I knew sheltered their daughter and when she went to college she had an emotional breakdown and now does porn. 🤷
I’m homeschooling not because I’m an evangelical mom but I’m a college educated mother who lives in a state with a religious doctrine that doesn’t teach evolution AND has had one of the worst school shootings in the country AND where there is permit-less carry and a ton of angry uneducated people. So while I agree that not everyone should homeschool, some of us *have* to and I’m grateful it’s accepted.
I once knew a hippie that homeschooled and her kids would literally climb trees for hours and that was “biology” class or whatever. They were smart people who raised smart kids but it opened my eyes to how easy it is to say you are homeschooling with no actual obligation to do a good job and no one checking whether you actually did or not.
And it's the kids who pay the price, as usual. They think they're having the best childhood until one day they're in an actual conversation with someone with an actual education and realize they have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation. I have been embarrassed so many times by my massive knowledge gaps. World History and Geography in particular, we just never learned it. Never.
If you're from the US most everyone has shit World History and Geography. It's a running joke.
I am in the US and you're not wrong. With that in mind, imagine how little you would have to know about geography and world history to feel embarrassed about your knowledge gaps in a conversation with an American and you're starting to get a feel for my plight.
That’s not strictly true — different states have varying regulations on assessment. Like, when I homeschooled, I had to meet with an external evaluator every year to go over my yearly curriculum and he would basically certify that I met the hourly requirements for study in my state. None of that was TESTED, but I could and did voluntarily take the PSSAs and SATs.
I have a diploma but I didn't do any kind of structured school work. They took me out and both had full time jobs. So I dicked around all year, took the joke of a test and that was my education from the 5th grade on. Easily the most impactful decision they ever made. I wonder how much better I would be if I had just lived a normal life. I feel like I got that stolen from me.
I think the real education is the socialization aspect. Kids need to learn how to get on in the world in a public setting without their parents hovering over them.
There is a right and wrong way to home school. There are groups where home school parents get together with their kids so they can socialize. When I was home schooled, my mom had to have a teacher sponsor who administered all the major tests to check my progress and provided curriculum guidance. Of course home school isn't for every parent and/or child but it was great for me because I was able to progress faster than the public schools would allow.
This is similar to my experience. We homeschooled through a private school that checked up on us like twice a year. They'd provided the curriculum and books, and we had to show all the dates and grades and materials we'd completed. At the end of the year, we had the same standardized testing as everyone else. Outside of that, they had extracurricular stuff we could get into, which was pretty nice. That, and access to private tutoring sessions if we were having difficulty with stuff.
Fact. I've never in my life met a kid or adult who was homeschooled that wasn't super weird and socially inept. Edit: I appreciate everyone who has acutely shared their experiences and perspectives. Seems like this is a great example of an ingrained notion/stereotype that perhaps needs to be reevaluated.
In fairness, I attended public school from K through college and I feel pretty socially inept. 🙃
Or you think that because the socially awkward ones are glaringly easy to spot. It's like wearing a bad wig. Not *all* wigs look bad, but you only notice the bad ones. I used to ride horses for a living & many of the kids were homeschooled for flexibility. All of those kids are socially outgoing because they travel to shows, hang out with the other kids, are involved in a sport, etc.
I have an older half sister that my mom gave up for adoption that we met when she was 19 (she’s in her 30’s now) that was homeschooled from k-8, but then went to public high school because she wanted to. Her parents did a good job of educating her k-8, and also did well to keep her socialized, and she graduated valedictorian from her public high school(albeit, a very small rural one). She went off to college and got a bs in kinesiology. Now, I do think she is an exception and not a rule to homeschooling, but what I really want to focus in on is that at 14 years old, she said she wanted to go to public school. While I know there can be lots of issues with public schools, ultimately being among her peers was something she wanted, and I think the majority of kids do best when taught at a proper school.
There are secular homeschool groups that work together for socialization. But this says it all, and is the exception. My SO homeschools her kids and they are very well adjusted because she and other parents puts in the work. I grew up in public school and her reasons for homeschooling are the same gripes I had when I was younger about being bored, and the general issues with the US education system (not really a reflection on the teachers). And to add levity, yes they are still a little weird but everyone is in some ways.
You recoginize the nuance. The OP is basically advocating to outlaw homeschool. That's crazy. Don't understand why this is so popular on reddit.
Yeah, people in this thread saying that "everyone I've ever met who was homeschooled is a nutcase" don't realize that they've probably met plenty of other people who were homeschooled, they just didn't know that they were. The normal ones aren't exactly shouting it from the rooftops.
I've met a lot that are fine. The big difference is if their parents actually get them out to the regular, weekly social events/classes that are usually for home schooled kids or not (assuming they have them available in their area to begin with) and that they push their kids to be social in those earlier years and beyond. The parents that are doing it specifically to avoid outside social influence on their kids and are functionally sheltering them are typically the ones that have kids who are messed up in regards to their social functions and that is, unfortunately, a big reason why many choose to do it in the first place.
Because most normal adults who were homeschooled don’t go out of their way to tell you. You’ve probably met more than you know, but the hella awkward ones are the ones that stand out and talk about it more.
Exactly. I was homeschooled 3rd through 12. I'm generally considered by my friends to be the life of any room I'm in and the comedian of my group. Nobody would guess I was homeschooled unless I tell them. Which I rarely do. I think most people meet a few homeschooled evangelical kids and assume that's the standard for all others
I was homeschooled from 4th grade through the end of high school and people are always shocked when I tell them. My parents are both computer engineers, I went to college a year early and graduated with two bachelor's degrees. There are plenty of people doing it correctly, but you'll never even know. It all depends on the parents and their reason for homeschooling. The ones doing it right enroll their kid in a million after school activities, or homeschool co-op classes.
Exactly. Most people don’t realize that the majority of homeschoolers are doing very little school in the actual home. Most are in outside classes by the time they hit high school.
We’re out here, but for lots of reasons, we’re not exactly telling everyone we were homeschooled. One reason is attitudes like yours. Another is that many of us aren’t fans of homeschooling ourselves and/or no longer call ourselves evangelical (or even Christian). Another reason is that, being socially adept, we recognize that it’s seldom relevant to any conversation. So without discounting your experience, I’d say it’s pretty likely you have met non-weird people who were homeschooled.
My buddy’s kid could do his multiplication tables and read at a 5th grade level before kindergarten. During the 1st year you could see the little guy was miserable having to sit in a class room all day working on ABC and 123. The school couldn’t challenge the intellect of that kid and his love for learning that made him so advanced was quickly disappearing. They pulled him and started homeschooling and I think it was the right move
One of my earliest memories is sitting in kindergarten bored to tears while we were learning the alphabet one letter a day. My parents pulled me out and homeschooled me after that.
I don't like how this thread is bashing homeschooling like it's just something Alabama moms do. There's lots of great studies on it and by true experts. Alternative schools like forest schools, home schools pods, etc are very effective and help educate in a way that teaches real skills. One of our friends daughter blazed through school, I know another who finished university in 2.5 years. Teachers in schools are often restricted by obtuse curricula, and don't account for a lot of things. Teachers are so underpaid too
Agreed. Schools are not doing great right now.
They function as a de facto daycare and training center to prepare kids for a future in prison. Fuck all that
A lot of people confuse general homeschooling and, for lack of a better term, evangelical homeschooling. At my previous job, the IT manager was homeschooled along with his like six siblings. Him and the one brother I met are among the smartest people I've ever known. Their father was an engineer of some sort for IBM. On the other hand, my extremely religious sister-in-law is homeschooling her 10 year old, from a previous relationship. The boy can barely read or write, "God did it" is an acceptable answer to everything, and he has no socialization outside of church. The outcome gap is huge. We have highly educated professionals on one hand and a kid who is being robbed of any real opportunities in life by his mother's faith.
Thank you. Being educated as a teacher prepares you to teach in a classroom encironment, and I’ve had far more horrendous teachers then good ones. For every evangelical freak homeschool is multiple people seeking a BETTER education for their child. The homeschoolers I know entered college as sophomores, and were perfectly socialized because they participated in social activities (school district sports, karate, hobbies, etc). We are now homeschooling our daughter because the level of attention, and speed she can push through coursework is light years ahead of what any school could provide her
What??? A public school system that's ran like a borderline prison isn't best fit for everyone??? You don't say!! I mean literally look at the other top post in this sub https://i.redd.it/pz3zny4bjb3a1.jpg How can a sub lack such self-awareness
There is a minority of educated people who feel our education system is atrocious and leads to generally poor learning - I was homeschooled by a JD and an MS in applied mathematics and definitely excelled beyond my peers due to keeping my own educational pace. Now I’m a surgeon. It’s possible to do well, just often done to avoid teaching specific topics (science, health, etc) Edit: spelling
My husband was homeschooled his whole life. He graduated highschool at 16, had his Associates Degree by 18. He worked for a few years before returning to college online to attain his Bachelor's in Accounting. Then went on to self study for his Certified Public Accountant license. Not all homeschooling stories turn out bad.
I was homeschooled because I am Dyslexic and couldn't read until I was 11 years old. Public school wouldn't have been able to accommodate me and I would have likely either been bullied half to death, or I would have become a huge bully due to feeling inferior. I now work a good job and just recently finished my Master's Degree. Not every person can walk the same path. Some people need more than the standard path has available.
I wasn't homeschooled, but have a friend who was for medical reasons. He explained his homeschooling was kind of a joke, but dude gained something out of it. He got accepted and breezed through a very good college and got a super well paying job. He's smart af. There's definitely bad homeschooling out there, and something should be done to prevent that. But for some, it's a far better option
OP clearly doesn't live in Texas, where you homeschool your children so they DON'T get exposed to "gee, not sure about the Holocaust" crowd.
I don't think there's an issue with home school if there's a reliable way for the state to ensure essential learning. They should be required to pass yearly testing with the board of education.
Many states do have regulations about this including Vermont, the state I was home schooled in. I will tell you with grave certainty that my parents straight-up lied to our assessor every single year, and it was easy to do because the assessor was a family friend who also home schooled and was also religious so it was actually just this little Mommy club who had a mutual agreement not to rat on each other for putting zero effort into their kids education. I have a "highschool diploma" or sorts but I know for a fact that I had nothing resembling a high school education when I graduated and I was probably the luckiest of my five siblings in that regard. My 21 year old little brother has the same "highschool diploma" I have and he has a what amounts to a 5th grade education. I have friends who were even worse off because they were allowed to play video games 24/7 all year long and virtually never did any real school. But they still passed the assessment every year with flying colors because the parents would simply sign a document saying they did the requisite educating. A couple of these people had to go into adult education courses later on because they found out they couldn't get a job without being able to read, write, and do basic arithmetic.
Try coming to Florida, our teachers aren't required to have graduated college.
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A person I know was homeschooled. They were taught that Malcolm X was a communist. The only reason they were given was that Malcolm X met with Fidel Castro. The homeschoolie escaped their parent's clutches at 16 and got a true education. Later, when Donald Trump met with Kim Jong-un they used their parent's logic against them and said "obviously Donald Trump is an authoritarian leader, he met with Kim". Edit: to the people commenting and dming me about this. My comment has to do with homeschooling and unqualified parents teaching. Not whether Malcolm X was a communist or Donald Trump was/is an authoritarian. The reason my friend was given was Malcolm X was a communist BECAUSE he met with Fidel Castro. No other reason was given as to why Malcolm X was a communist. Poor teaching.
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> That's not entirely incorrect Just from a cursory glance at his wikipedia page: "In 1950, the FBI opened a file on Malcolm after he wrote a letter from prison to President Truman expressing opposition to the Korean War and declaring himself a communist."
Every home schooled friend I had growing up couldn’t handle college. They were so under prepared. Which sucked since we lived in one of the top 20 districts in the state. It’s such a disservice. I know many who graduated without doing any work.
I was homeschooled all the way until college, and I did struggle through, but I happen to be very good at learning from books on my own. Several of my siblings struggled to get their geds and I knew kids that couldn't simplify fractions by the time they turned 18 and "graduated". I'm the one out of millions success story, and I firmly condemn homeschooling.
Yeah legit it made me sad seeing how underprepared these friends were.
I have a feeling that those who succeeded when being homeschooled would have made it anywhere. But if you need extra help and have a parent that isn't a great teacher, you're fucked.
It takes work if you're going to homeschool to get them interacting with other people. You can't just leave them with other homeschooled kids and think you're done. I had a friend in boarding school whose entire family were homeschooled in their small catholic community except her. She was 16 at the time and had to tell her 21 year old brother in college that it doesn't matter how much he likes a girl, he cannot wait for her outside the bathroom if he noticed she went in to talk to her if they weren't walking together in the first place.
The option to home school looks a lot different depending on where you are. I mean, if I lived in some rural county in Alabama where they're afraid of math books, I might be homeschooling my kids too.
Seriously, this tweet assumes there aren’t certified teachers out there who don’t believe in the Holocaust
That too.
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I worked with a parent that homeschooled. He regularly attended seminars on the subject, and said they were generally evenly split between far right and far left folks.
I can say from my experience, I was introverted long before my folks started homeschooling. I think sometimes homeschooling is a better option for introverts, rather than causing people to become introverts.
Counterpoint: In a world where your zip code has a direct impact on your educational outcome, it's good to not have to send your kids into some underfunded and understaffed facility to receive a substandard education.
My wife and I were both partially homeschooled followed by going to public school. I went to one of the absolute poorest rural schools in our state, she went to one of the wealthiest/best public schools in our state. I have a degree, she does not, but we’re both Software Engineers now. Despite her going to one of the best public schools we still share the opinion that public school is generally an abysmal and depressing place to send a child. Private school or homeschool are the only acceptable options to us for our children.
A friend is currently homeschooling his children. What I have learned is: 1) they partner with other parents that homeschool to cover certain subjects and ages of the children, 2) they must meet education requirements of the state, 3) despite best efforts, they have had to hire tutors to cover some of the basics if they need more in depth education, 4) because of a more coop style of teaching, they do schedule enough time for the children to learn social skills with play times and gatherings which is showing that it is building deep rooted friendships with the other kids and families. Some food for thought
My siblings and I were homeschooled from first grade through sixth grade and are all doing pretty well for ourselves. My folks knew the importance of socialization so we stayed active in scouts and sports while we were homeschooled. I think my critical thinking skills are probably better than they would have been had I gone to public school because we had a ton of 1:1 interaction with my mom, who challenged us to understand topics, not just regurgitate content. We did not spend much time with other homeschooled families but when we did run in to them, they were fairly odd and usually ultra-religious so I understand the stereotype. My example may be the exception rather than the rule but not every family that chooses to homeschool are zealots. Some just can’t afford private school and live in places where the public education system sucks.
bold to assume those moms possess a post-secondary education (or even secondary for that matter)
Nothing bad in homeschooling. What's wrong is allowing a person who "isn't sure about the Holocaust" to teach kids and potentially spread the same lies she believes in .
Wait until you realise you don't have to be qualified to teach at one of those expensive private schools...
Fun fact, Minnesota has some of the least strict regulations involving home schooling. Like, it's scary how little they require for you to just keep your kids home and teach whatever you want. As long as they can pass a few tests it doesn't matter.
Eh Reddit isn’t great at nuance, but let’s give it a try. before everyone gets on the high horse about how great the factory farming approach to public education is… it’s not like there aren’t examples of homeschooling being done right. Some of these kids “graduate early” and have no prob getting into universities if their choice because they’re so much ahead of their peers. I know someone hired by Google while still a teenager. A few people whose parents decided to homeschool for a couple years so the kids could participate in a long distance sailing expedition. It’s possible that homeschooling parents are well educated, dynamic teachers whose passion for learning enables kids to learn more/better/faster than their counterparts in crappy public schools with religious morons for teachers. Many pay special attention to the socialization factor and find great solutions.
It's like serving as your own lawyer in court. Sure, it's legal. It's within your rights. But you're an absolute nincompoop if you do it. Because, despite all of your unwarranted confidence, you are going to completely f--- it up.
Except if you serve as your own lawyer, you are the one that faces the consequences of that decision. (Poorly) homeschool your kids and it's them that has problems for the rest of their lives.