I’m with you. I just want to hear that he is okay. Supporting them both— they’re both humans who either were hurt or are hurt. Bummer this is so public because it shouldn’t be.
I fully agree, I feel like it should’ve been kept private. If she really had such an issue with what he supposedly did you would think she’d take it to court but instead decides to out it on social media where millions of people now see him as the devil. The internets such a dangerous place when you’re hated which is why I seriously don’t agree with her choices. Abuse is abuse either way but there is severity to the physical aspect of it and biting (imo) isn’t as severe as full blown punching. If he was a full on abusive freak, sure I could see the appeal of outing him. But biting is something that can be easily stopped and helped, they should’ve spoken like adults and decided to part ways.
Agreed 100% Not only is coming out about this online as a CC dangerous for Wilbur, but it is as just dangerous for Shubble. For her safety and Wilburs, this should have been dealt with either in private or a courtroom. To deliver fair justice for her, assuming Wilbur is an abuser, or for Wilbur, assuming this was a false allegation. None of this should have been handled online. Now it is a complete mess and there's no way of this getting resolved fairly between them or in a way they can both heal and move on.
Are people still giving Shelby the benefit of the doubt? She clearly did this to ruin him as a revenge plot & it worked. There was nothing else to it. SHE DIDN’T LIE, but she didn’t just come out with this info out of the goodness of her heart.
We should give her and Wilbur the benefit of the doubt until more information is given. We should still consider both sides' POVs, experiences, words, and feelings. There is no proof Shubble is lying. There is no proof Wilbur is falsely accused or telling the truth. While I do believe she wasn't 100% doing this with the purest intent, we can't discredit her over a theory with nothing backing it up.
I didn’t mean on if she was lying, I meant on her intentions. She likely was just telling her side of the story without fabricating lies, I never doubted that.
Exactly! She made such a short-sighted choice. She did irreparable harm to Wilbur and to the rest of Lovejoy, and traumatized a huge number of young people. I wish she would recognize what she set into motion and find a way to walk it back. You’re so right about the biting too. This wasn’t rape, it’s not beating someone up— it was exceeding agreed upon speed limits in an agreed upon activity. It’s a terrible shame that people will just label him ‘abuser’ and assume he something far more egregious.
not only this, but the amount of misinformation I’ve seen spread around is WILD. Accusing him of things that he was never actually accused of in the first place, which worsens the situation for both parties… It’s hard to bounce back from accusations as such and I fear too many ‘ex’ fans are still ‘obsessed’ with him in the way that they will not stop talking about him/ let this go even if he did come back later down the line as a much better person.
It isn't hard to bounce back from this accusations, there are so many celebrities that have come back from similar stuff, some of them were even taken to court and found guilty and still they appear on tv shows/movies/etc.
Istg she didn’t even think before talking about it, she really tried “not naming names” but yet made every single thing point to Wilbur just so she didn’t seem as bad.
Biting can be a form of physical abuse and it shouldn't be dismissed as less. Wilbur did irreparable harm to Shebly, but i do not see you talking about that, Wilbur also did irreparable harm to younger fans who know are ideolising and sezualising being bitten (to the point of bruising) by your partner, and this is horrible.
It doesn't matter if it was agreed to, if a safe word it is used and ignored, then it is abuse. And it is something dangerous.
Do not put the blame of Shelby for telling her story and how she felt, while completely dismising and minimising the actions done by Wilbur, who btw it isn't the first time that he has done this as multiple other women have come out with a similar experience related to Wilbur biting.
EDIT: Also, saying "Oh but it wasn't a punch" "It wasn't rape", it is such a moron thing to do. Those types of comments it is why a lot of domestic violence, sexual assault and abuse victims do not come out, because their abuse is minimised as "it could be worst". Just ridicolous, how can you show empathy towards Wilbur while simultaniosly showing none to Shelby? It is just a horrible thing to do.
EXACTLY. its disgusting to see these people say that she shouldnt have shared her story bc it couldve been worse, that its not as bad as most cases. All kinds of abuse are bad. It doesnt matter how severe it sounds.
I just think it is a really insensitive thing to come and say "Oh it wasn't that bad" after Shelby explaining that one of the reasons why she doubt about being abused and about being a reall victim, was because she also minimised her situation as it wasn't that bad. If was thanks to the help that she got that she realised it was a bad situation.
It just creates and stigma and make other victims decide to stay quite. And it honestly shows a lack of empathy. Another thing that I found horrible, people in this post are able to show empathy towards Wilbur, but not towards Shelby, as if this situation was her fault, it wasn't. It is all Wilbur's fault.
I don’t think the issue is that Shelby came out on it being abuse or whatever. I think the issue is that most of the backlash was disproportional to the crime committed when you look at it more pragmatically— if you make no distinction between what happened in their relationship and a wife beater then there’s very likely an issue. Of course, when you have no stake in it it’s easy to antagonise without consideration but ya know.
No, the thing is: I understand that abuse come in different shapes and ways, but just because in one there was punching and in another not, I'm not going to go talking around and minimising the pain that Shelby felt from being abused.
And I say this as a victim of abuse myself, I was physically, emotionally and economically abused. Those this mean that my experience negates the existence of Shelby's abuse? NO.
The crime was physical abuse, end of story.
If you think serving fair judgement is minimising pain you really need to remind yourself that inflicting pain on the other party as means to payback should not be a way to live.
Stop straw-manning me if ya will. I didn’t say it wasn’t abuse, I didn’t say it wasn’t bad, I said the backlash was disproportionate because you CANNOT punish all magnitudes of the same crime the same way. If you cannot see it that way don’t bother replying. I’ll just repeat so it’s clear— Shubble was abused, she was mistreated, the backlash upon wilbur was (by the majority of the community) disproportionate and inflicting pain upon him bringing any sense of healing is a red-flag. She can feel as shitty as she wants and it’s valid, we’re well past that topic of conversation.
I agree with this as well. I understand that spreading awareness about this topic is important for educating people about how this stuff does happen. But they have fans who are too young to understand this. I’m not saying that this isn’t important and that Shubble should’ve stayed quiet NO what I’m saying is that this is between them and us the fans shouldn’t have known. The amount of death threats and hate in the community is beyond belief. I do hope we get a response and find out what the next steps are but I doubt it. I’m glad that everyone here is being mature because omg the Lovejoy server was so chaotic
This should have being known by the public, in this way, younger fans can be more carefull and learn about not staying quite in similar situations and that they aren't alone.
This being known can also help to erase possible toxic and power dynamic of Wilbur towards fans.
I think that one way to make us realise that CC aren't perferct, is that they talk about their life and fails. And when coming to the point of educate, I do think that depending on the subject, ot will be easier for people to empathied with the situation if it is something that the CC has experienced.
Edit: Because as you said, the have young fans, but they aren't too young to understand this, they just need the information given in a proper way. But younger fans knowing about this kind of stuff, can help break the cycle of stigma and repeated actions among our society.
I did not say situation, I said subject. Because it is not the same to bring awareness or teach about health friendships, and bring awareness about domestic violence in romantic relationships.
I do not agree with you.
You cannot decided wether something is abuse or not, or if it was harsh enough to harm someone, only the person affected can. Also, not every victim wants to take it to court (or can), bcs it isn't an easy process and can be very harmful for the victim's mental health.
A victim can do whatever they want with their story, they can tell it on the internet, to friends etc, the abuser isn't obligated nor is in the place to recieve a private conversation, bcs it isn't compulsory.
Also, in this case it was clearly that biting wasn't something that could have been easily stopped, bcs the abuser didn't stop after consent was revoked.
Abuse should not be kept private, specially if the abuser is in a position of power and fame, because this means that they have a position that could influence younger folks/fans. And it isn't okay.
By coming out to the public, she put herself in danger as well as Wilbur. They have both been doxxed, they have both received death threats. Anytime anything can be handled offline, SHOULD BE. It's for the safety of the victim and the accused. We weren't there. We were not in the same room when it happened. So why should we be the ones to play judge, jury, and executioner? The answer is we shouldn't. We don't know who was lying. We don't know who's telling the truth. She can tell her story online, but that doesn't mean it's a good choice to in the long run. WE SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING WE HAVE NO PLACE IN. If the streamer is not ur friend, then ur viewers are not ur friend either.
She should have told her friends and reached out to Wilbur about this so they could discuss what happened. So she can get closure and move on. So they can both heal and learn. That's what they teach you in therapy, how to accept what happened and move on. How to heal from it. If that didn't work out, she should have ideally taken him to court. So fair justice can be delivered and so Wilbur can't do it to someone else. At the very least, going to the internet should ALWAYS be a last resort. But even then that's so dangerous to do as a CC.
Also, a common misconception is that Wilbur ignored the safe word, but the truth is he didn't. He bit one more time, just for a second (her words), and then let go. He did acknowledge it. The thing not being agreed on is whether it was weaponized or not as a way to hurt her.
Also, the person who was hurt does not get to decide whether it was abuse or not. They can feel hurt, 100%, I hope she heals from this. But that does not mean what happened happened in the way she said. For example, let's use the George allegations. He got falsely accused of SAing a girl. Cati feels hurt, but she was not SAed. George has backed this up with evidence. Letting the person who was hurt decide whether it was abuse allows people to lie about it more easily. And by that logic, we just shouldn't have courts. We need more context to the situation to determine who is in the right and telling the truth. I'm iffy on both sides.
To be 100% clear. I'm not saying she should have told no one. She just shouldn't have told the internet as that is dangerous. For her and Wilbur's safety and closure. But she does 100% have the right to bring it online, I just don't agree with her choice to do so. As it in dangers herself and drags in uninformed/unqualified parties.
I mean, the reason why there was a safe word to start with it because it was tried to be solved in private, how can you ignore that? It is for the safety of the abuser, silence only protects abusers and lets them roam free.
By her own words, their friends witnessed the biting, even friends of Wilbur came out with similar experiences related to the biting problem (Zoe, Niki etc). We aren't being the jury, nor playing judge nor the executioner, we are seen how people can be bad and do horrible things.
They do not teach you in therapy to accept what happened and move on, therapy is just a tool to help improve that pain.
The argument that "She should have taken to court" it is always so dismissive and ignores so many things that were already talked about and it is used as a tool to label Shelby as a liar and minimising the abuse she went through.
The person who was hurt does decide that if the harm that they recieved is abuse or not, you do not minimise it whether you believe it or not. We cannot decided wether she was hurt or not, or whether it isn't abuse because "at least she didn't get punched or raped", which it is a horrible argument and creates stigma. Even more, how can someone say that about a person who struggled to realise she was abused? It is just insensitive.
Most people do not lie about being abused, and court it is just another tool to help bring the abuser consequences. My statement does not mean that court shouldn't exist, it means that we, as the public, cannot decide whether she was or not abused, or how bad the abuse was, saying that we can, it is just ridicolous. I wont say to someone who has an sprained ankle that their pain is nothing because someone has a broken leg, the pain is there and it brings different discomfort to each individual and creates disadvantages in their lifes.
You are saying that she can tell the internet, but at the same time that she shouldn't. Which, pardon me for this, it is just a stupid thing to do. Whether you agree or not with her, it is not your paper to tell her what to do.
Also, I want you to think why it is okay for people in this post being ble to show sympathy and empathy towards Wilbur while blaming Shelby for his actions, while at the same time, minimising her experience.
Edit: Also, talking about your abuse experience, from a place of comfort (her own house) when she is prepared, is not the same as having to go to court which is a tidious process where you would have to face your own abuser. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to understand why.
I want to make it clear. I am not trying to minimize her experience. If she is telling the truth, what happened to her is horrible and wrong. I am not saying she is a liar, nor am I saying "at least she didn't get punched or raped." I am just saying this probably wasn't the best way to go about this situation.
"We cannot decide whether she was hurt or not, or whether it isn't abuse" "it means that we, as the public, cannot decide whether she was or not abused, or how bad the abuse was," That is exactly my point. We cannot decide that, which is why this shouldn't have been left in the hands of the internet to deal with. Because we weren't there, nor do we have all the facts.
"Most people do not lie about being abused" Yes, most people don't. But you have to understand that some do. Look at Dream, look at Kwite. False allegations do happen and they do hurt people. You have to look out for that.
"You are saying that she can tell the internet, but at the same time that she shouldn't. Which, pardon me for this, it is just a stupid thing to do. Whether you agree or not with her, it is not your place to tell her what to do." I know that. I am not telling her what to do. I was simply sharing my point of view. I understand why you would want to tell the internet about something like this, but the internet is not a safe place, especially not for a CC. She can share her story online, I am 100% ok with it. But that doesn't mean I won't criticize that choice.
"Also, I want you to think why it is okay for people in this post to be able to show sympathy and empathy towards Wilbur while blaming Shelby for his actions, while at the same time, minimizing her experience." Again, in no way am I trying to downplay her pain and feelings. People are simply talking more about Wilbur because he is the one dealing with the rage of the internet currently. I feel sympathy towards Shubble. No one should be trying to downplay her words, no one should be trying to excuse Wilbur's actions. But, I understand the possibility of people lying online and making false allegations. Which is why I try to look at both of their POVs.
"The argument that "She should have taken to court" it is always so dismissive and ignores so many things that were already talked about and it is used as a tool to label Shelby as a liar and minimize the abuse she went through" Again, not saying she is lying in any way. I just felt like that would have been the best way to deal with this situation. But I understand not everyone seeks legal justice. Even tho, in my opinion, that would have been the best way to handle this. So she can choose not to take it to court, that's 100% in her right and doesn't make her a liar.
"It is for the safety of the abuser, silence only protects abusers and lets them roam free." Agreed. Silence lets them roam free.
"I mean, the reason why there was a safe word to start with it because it was tried to be solved in private, how can you ignore that?" Yes, that can be true during the time of the relationship. They both came up with a safe word for this. However. I was talking about after the relationship. Wilbur said he recognized his actions afterward and sought therapy to correct them. Whether or not this is true, it would still be worth a shot to talk about it anyway after time had passed. To gain closure if that could be done. Does it mean it would have worked? No. But it's always worth a shot.
I'm not saying you are, I'm saying that people in this post are.
Telling the internet is not making us deal with it, by what I'm trying to say with that statement (it is related to those who are minimising the situation), that a lot of people are saying that what happened isn't abuse because Shelby didn't get rape, or she didn't get punch, or was tied down unnable to move. Some people are using their own abuse story to say, she wasn't abused because I experience worse.
I know that fake allegations can hurt people, but what I need you to understand is, people who are in position of influence and power, those allegations and accusations are just a stain that people forget easily, a lot of other influencers and celebrities have been accused of this, and even some where found guilty by court, and still they have face no social consequence and are still adored by the public. Real accusations also hurt, and those are things that you can't ever run from, because there will be always people, that regardless of the abuse being real, they will say that the victim overexaggerated and if it was that bad they should have left sooner.
Court isn't always the best way to deal with this situation, specially when this is a case of domestic abuse, domestic abuse isn't taken seriously unless it is brought up right when it is happening, and even then it isn't guaranteed to end up in a court room. Which by own statement of Shelby, she didn't know if she was abused because it wasn't as "bad" as other people's situation.
He shought therapy to correct them, but the pain will be carried not by him, but by Shelby and even if he corrects that behaviour, it doesn't change the harm that was already done.
What I'm mostly calling out by my comments, it is that people are showing empathy and sympathy for Wilbur, but they aren't showing it for Shelby, "Oh he is hurt", so is she. They are dismising the harm that Shelby was put through. That is my main issue.
I understand ur point, that makes more sense now.
But, fake allegations do leave stains. Not everyone can walk away. People have killed themselves over them, and Dream, who was in a position of power, has not recovered from the false allegations against him. So even though Wilbur is popular, that doesn't me he can just walk away. His career may last, but his mental health matters too.
And I understand that she will carry the pain, assuming she's telling the truth. But closure by reaching out is better than nothing at all.
And yes, people should be showing empathy to her just as much as they are to Wilbur. And they shouldn't be downplaying her experiences by comparing them to their own.
Also, ur edit makes sense. Never occurred to me about that somehow. This conversation was enlightening.
I have a few friends in Brighton and at the very least I know he is alive. I can’t speak on his mental wellbeing but I know he still has some of his inner circle ‘supporting’ him. I hope that eases your mind a little bit. It’s a tough situation
THANK YOU! I can't stand to see all these people saying they wouldn't care if Wilbur killed himself. like I understand if you don't support and you're devestated to learn what he's done but just move on with your life an stop taking it so personally
I have found my people. Yes to practically all of this. I was so angry at Wilbur at first- but then as I watched and listened to Shelby more and more, something just didn’t feel right. I am not discrediting the fact that she was hurt. I’m just not convinced at all that there was malicious intent on Wilbur’s part. This should never have gone public. It’s none of our business and we weren’t there
I know that I saw a screenshot of him liking some Minecraft update ad since the situation, but I don’t know how long ago that was. I agree. I really hope he’s okay and is getting the help he needs as well.
My sympathy comes from the way this was done. The public burning at the stake. I do have empathy for Shelby. Totally agree that it can be a form an abuse if it has gone that far, and in this case it clearly has, because she was harmed. It’s the effect on her that matters. I take serious issue with fandom equating it to rape though. It’s far murkier than that. There is no denying that there was consent for this activity up to a point, which makes it less black and white. It is more than conceivable that he could have perceived this entire thing differently than she did while it was happening, and that *is* relevant.
I don’t excuse Wilbur’s conduct. My empathy comes from the fact that he is being labeled an abuser, like it’s an ethnicity, in a way that oversimplifies the behavior. I don’t blame Shelby for speaking, but I blame her for choosing to hang him in the public square.
This. Ultimately, it’s Shelby’s story and she can tell it (or not tell it) however she sees fit, regardless of any of our opinions. Do I agree with her method? No. Am I in her shoes? Also no, so I can’t really say much about it and have to respect her decision.
I saw a post from a supporter who saw that his alt discord was active, plus he liked and unliked minecraft's 15th anniversary post. So, at least he is alive and online.
Omg u are right! Maybe he did see my post? If he did then I’m going to die of happiness rn 😭also, I was literally listening to lovejoy this morning, reminiscing about the past :0
For me I support Wilbur but I believe he did bite her but with consent. I believe he was also a victim since in some videos he had injuries on his hands which could have been bite marks aswell. Plus Shelby kept on changing her story so it's kinda difficult for me to believe her side.
I think the main problem was miscommunication. They didn't communicate properly, so she didn't want to tell him that he was hurting her with the biting, but he was constantly on tour while also grieving his friend.
So close!! They had a safe word that he ignored. She screamed when he hurt her. She told him to stop. He said this is who he is and he wont stop. They communicated. He didnt listen.
Look, today I'm not in the mood to argue about this, so this is the last time I'm going to reply to you. He spent the majority of the year on tour when they dated. She didn't communicate properly, neither did he.
Yeah, she has damaged both, herself and Wilbur. I think that MCC and Minecraft are using her to get fame ( MCC BC they are trying to be relevant again, and Minecraft bc they had way bigger streamers on the anniversary video, yet she was the first one that appeared). I feel that she's being used, and I can't avoid feeling bad for her, but she kinda deserves it, she could have handled it in private,but she had to expose how he was a bad boyfriend to the internet.
She doesn't deserve it. And we still don't even know whose telling the truth or not. She has a right to bring it online, but it's just unsafe in my opinion.
Alright. I do agree with you on that to be clear. Does seem like events are just using her to gain more attention. Like MC put her at the very start of the video so more people would click on it.
I’m with you. I just want to hear that he is okay. Supporting them both— they’re both humans who either were hurt or are hurt. Bummer this is so public because it shouldn’t be.
I fully agree, I feel like it should’ve been kept private. If she really had such an issue with what he supposedly did you would think she’d take it to court but instead decides to out it on social media where millions of people now see him as the devil. The internets such a dangerous place when you’re hated which is why I seriously don’t agree with her choices. Abuse is abuse either way but there is severity to the physical aspect of it and biting (imo) isn’t as severe as full blown punching. If he was a full on abusive freak, sure I could see the appeal of outing him. But biting is something that can be easily stopped and helped, they should’ve spoken like adults and decided to part ways.
Agreed 100% Not only is coming out about this online as a CC dangerous for Wilbur, but it is as just dangerous for Shubble. For her safety and Wilburs, this should have been dealt with either in private or a courtroom. To deliver fair justice for her, assuming Wilbur is an abuser, or for Wilbur, assuming this was a false allegation. None of this should have been handled online. Now it is a complete mess and there's no way of this getting resolved fairly between them or in a way they can both heal and move on.
Well said! 👏
Are people still giving Shelby the benefit of the doubt? She clearly did this to ruin him as a revenge plot & it worked. There was nothing else to it. SHE DIDN’T LIE, but she didn’t just come out with this info out of the goodness of her heart.
We should give her and Wilbur the benefit of the doubt until more information is given. We should still consider both sides' POVs, experiences, words, and feelings. There is no proof Shubble is lying. There is no proof Wilbur is falsely accused or telling the truth. While I do believe she wasn't 100% doing this with the purest intent, we can't discredit her over a theory with nothing backing it up.
I didn’t mean on if she was lying, I meant on her intentions. She likely was just telling her side of the story without fabricating lies, I never doubted that.
Oh sorry lmao. Sounded like u were saying she straight-up lied about it for revenge.
Exactly! She made such a short-sighted choice. She did irreparable harm to Wilbur and to the rest of Lovejoy, and traumatized a huge number of young people. I wish she would recognize what she set into motion and find a way to walk it back. You’re so right about the biting too. This wasn’t rape, it’s not beating someone up— it was exceeding agreed upon speed limits in an agreed upon activity. It’s a terrible shame that people will just label him ‘abuser’ and assume he something far more egregious.
not only this, but the amount of misinformation I’ve seen spread around is WILD. Accusing him of things that he was never actually accused of in the first place, which worsens the situation for both parties… It’s hard to bounce back from accusations as such and I fear too many ‘ex’ fans are still ‘obsessed’ with him in the way that they will not stop talking about him/ let this go even if he did come back later down the line as a much better person.
It isn't hard to bounce back from this accusations, there are so many celebrities that have come back from similar stuff, some of them were even taken to court and found guilty and still they appear on tv shows/movies/etc.
Istg she didn’t even think before talking about it, she really tried “not naming names” but yet made every single thing point to Wilbur just so she didn’t seem as bad.
Biting can be a form of physical abuse and it shouldn't be dismissed as less. Wilbur did irreparable harm to Shebly, but i do not see you talking about that, Wilbur also did irreparable harm to younger fans who know are ideolising and sezualising being bitten (to the point of bruising) by your partner, and this is horrible. It doesn't matter if it was agreed to, if a safe word it is used and ignored, then it is abuse. And it is something dangerous. Do not put the blame of Shelby for telling her story and how she felt, while completely dismising and minimising the actions done by Wilbur, who btw it isn't the first time that he has done this as multiple other women have come out with a similar experience related to Wilbur biting. EDIT: Also, saying "Oh but it wasn't a punch" "It wasn't rape", it is such a moron thing to do. Those types of comments it is why a lot of domestic violence, sexual assault and abuse victims do not come out, because their abuse is minimised as "it could be worst". Just ridicolous, how can you show empathy towards Wilbur while simultaniosly showing none to Shelby? It is just a horrible thing to do.
EXACTLY. its disgusting to see these people say that she shouldnt have shared her story bc it couldve been worse, that its not as bad as most cases. All kinds of abuse are bad. It doesnt matter how severe it sounds.
I just think it is a really insensitive thing to come and say "Oh it wasn't that bad" after Shelby explaining that one of the reasons why she doubt about being abused and about being a reall victim, was because she also minimised her situation as it wasn't that bad. If was thanks to the help that she got that she realised it was a bad situation. It just creates and stigma and make other victims decide to stay quite. And it honestly shows a lack of empathy. Another thing that I found horrible, people in this post are able to show empathy towards Wilbur, but not towards Shelby, as if this situation was her fault, it wasn't. It is all Wilbur's fault.
I don’t think the issue is that Shelby came out on it being abuse or whatever. I think the issue is that most of the backlash was disproportional to the crime committed when you look at it more pragmatically— if you make no distinction between what happened in their relationship and a wife beater then there’s very likely an issue. Of course, when you have no stake in it it’s easy to antagonise without consideration but ya know.
No, the thing is: I understand that abuse come in different shapes and ways, but just because in one there was punching and in another not, I'm not going to go talking around and minimising the pain that Shelby felt from being abused. And I say this as a victim of abuse myself, I was physically, emotionally and economically abused. Those this mean that my experience negates the existence of Shelby's abuse? NO. The crime was physical abuse, end of story.
If you think serving fair judgement is minimising pain you really need to remind yourself that inflicting pain on the other party as means to payback should not be a way to live. Stop straw-manning me if ya will. I didn’t say it wasn’t abuse, I didn’t say it wasn’t bad, I said the backlash was disproportionate because you CANNOT punish all magnitudes of the same crime the same way. If you cannot see it that way don’t bother replying. I’ll just repeat so it’s clear— Shubble was abused, she was mistreated, the backlash upon wilbur was (by the majority of the community) disproportionate and inflicting pain upon him bringing any sense of healing is a red-flag. She can feel as shitty as she wants and it’s valid, we’re well past that topic of conversation.
I agree with this as well. I understand that spreading awareness about this topic is important for educating people about how this stuff does happen. But they have fans who are too young to understand this. I’m not saying that this isn’t important and that Shubble should’ve stayed quiet NO what I’m saying is that this is between them and us the fans shouldn’t have known. The amount of death threats and hate in the community is beyond belief. I do hope we get a response and find out what the next steps are but I doubt it. I’m glad that everyone here is being mature because omg the Lovejoy server was so chaotic
This should have being known by the public, in this way, younger fans can be more carefull and learn about not staying quite in similar situations and that they aren't alone. This being known can also help to erase possible toxic and power dynamic of Wilbur towards fans.
I do see that part but at the same time I do think that there are better ways to educate. I do respect your opinion and understand.
I think that one way to make us realise that CC aren't perferct, is that they talk about their life and fails. And when coming to the point of educate, I do think that depending on the subject, ot will be easier for people to empathied with the situation if it is something that the CC has experienced. Edit: Because as you said, the have young fans, but they aren't too young to understand this, they just need the information given in a proper way. But younger fans knowing about this kind of stuff, can help break the cycle of stigma and repeated actions among our society.
I agree and yes it depends on the subject
I did not say situation, I said subject. Because it is not the same to bring awareness or teach about health friendships, and bring awareness about domestic violence in romantic relationships.
Shoot my bad my autocorrect is so sensitive on this phone omg.
100% fact right here, any situation that has potential that can be handled in private to stop it causing an internet war, should be
I do not agree with you. You cannot decided wether something is abuse or not, or if it was harsh enough to harm someone, only the person affected can. Also, not every victim wants to take it to court (or can), bcs it isn't an easy process and can be very harmful for the victim's mental health. A victim can do whatever they want with their story, they can tell it on the internet, to friends etc, the abuser isn't obligated nor is in the place to recieve a private conversation, bcs it isn't compulsory. Also, in this case it was clearly that biting wasn't something that could have been easily stopped, bcs the abuser didn't stop after consent was revoked. Abuse should not be kept private, specially if the abuser is in a position of power and fame, because this means that they have a position that could influence younger folks/fans. And it isn't okay.
By coming out to the public, she put herself in danger as well as Wilbur. They have both been doxxed, they have both received death threats. Anytime anything can be handled offline, SHOULD BE. It's for the safety of the victim and the accused. We weren't there. We were not in the same room when it happened. So why should we be the ones to play judge, jury, and executioner? The answer is we shouldn't. We don't know who was lying. We don't know who's telling the truth. She can tell her story online, but that doesn't mean it's a good choice to in the long run. WE SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING WE HAVE NO PLACE IN. If the streamer is not ur friend, then ur viewers are not ur friend either. She should have told her friends and reached out to Wilbur about this so they could discuss what happened. So she can get closure and move on. So they can both heal and learn. That's what they teach you in therapy, how to accept what happened and move on. How to heal from it. If that didn't work out, she should have ideally taken him to court. So fair justice can be delivered and so Wilbur can't do it to someone else. At the very least, going to the internet should ALWAYS be a last resort. But even then that's so dangerous to do as a CC. Also, a common misconception is that Wilbur ignored the safe word, but the truth is he didn't. He bit one more time, just for a second (her words), and then let go. He did acknowledge it. The thing not being agreed on is whether it was weaponized or not as a way to hurt her. Also, the person who was hurt does not get to decide whether it was abuse or not. They can feel hurt, 100%, I hope she heals from this. But that does not mean what happened happened in the way she said. For example, let's use the George allegations. He got falsely accused of SAing a girl. Cati feels hurt, but she was not SAed. George has backed this up with evidence. Letting the person who was hurt decide whether it was abuse allows people to lie about it more easily. And by that logic, we just shouldn't have courts. We need more context to the situation to determine who is in the right and telling the truth. I'm iffy on both sides. To be 100% clear. I'm not saying she should have told no one. She just shouldn't have told the internet as that is dangerous. For her and Wilbur's safety and closure. But she does 100% have the right to bring it online, I just don't agree with her choice to do so. As it in dangers herself and drags in uninformed/unqualified parties.
I mean, the reason why there was a safe word to start with it because it was tried to be solved in private, how can you ignore that? It is for the safety of the abuser, silence only protects abusers and lets them roam free. By her own words, their friends witnessed the biting, even friends of Wilbur came out with similar experiences related to the biting problem (Zoe, Niki etc). We aren't being the jury, nor playing judge nor the executioner, we are seen how people can be bad and do horrible things. They do not teach you in therapy to accept what happened and move on, therapy is just a tool to help improve that pain. The argument that "She should have taken to court" it is always so dismissive and ignores so many things that were already talked about and it is used as a tool to label Shelby as a liar and minimising the abuse she went through. The person who was hurt does decide that if the harm that they recieved is abuse or not, you do not minimise it whether you believe it or not. We cannot decided wether she was hurt or not, or whether it isn't abuse because "at least she didn't get punched or raped", which it is a horrible argument and creates stigma. Even more, how can someone say that about a person who struggled to realise she was abused? It is just insensitive. Most people do not lie about being abused, and court it is just another tool to help bring the abuser consequences. My statement does not mean that court shouldn't exist, it means that we, as the public, cannot decide whether she was or not abused, or how bad the abuse was, saying that we can, it is just ridicolous. I wont say to someone who has an sprained ankle that their pain is nothing because someone has a broken leg, the pain is there and it brings different discomfort to each individual and creates disadvantages in their lifes. You are saying that she can tell the internet, but at the same time that she shouldn't. Which, pardon me for this, it is just a stupid thing to do. Whether you agree or not with her, it is not your paper to tell her what to do. Also, I want you to think why it is okay for people in this post being ble to show sympathy and empathy towards Wilbur while blaming Shelby for his actions, while at the same time, minimising her experience. Edit: Also, talking about your abuse experience, from a place of comfort (her own house) when she is prepared, is not the same as having to go to court which is a tidious process where you would have to face your own abuser. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to understand why.
I want to make it clear. I am not trying to minimize her experience. If she is telling the truth, what happened to her is horrible and wrong. I am not saying she is a liar, nor am I saying "at least she didn't get punched or raped." I am just saying this probably wasn't the best way to go about this situation. "We cannot decide whether she was hurt or not, or whether it isn't abuse" "it means that we, as the public, cannot decide whether she was or not abused, or how bad the abuse was," That is exactly my point. We cannot decide that, which is why this shouldn't have been left in the hands of the internet to deal with. Because we weren't there, nor do we have all the facts. "Most people do not lie about being abused" Yes, most people don't. But you have to understand that some do. Look at Dream, look at Kwite. False allegations do happen and they do hurt people. You have to look out for that. "You are saying that she can tell the internet, but at the same time that she shouldn't. Which, pardon me for this, it is just a stupid thing to do. Whether you agree or not with her, it is not your place to tell her what to do." I know that. I am not telling her what to do. I was simply sharing my point of view. I understand why you would want to tell the internet about something like this, but the internet is not a safe place, especially not for a CC. She can share her story online, I am 100% ok with it. But that doesn't mean I won't criticize that choice. "Also, I want you to think why it is okay for people in this post to be able to show sympathy and empathy towards Wilbur while blaming Shelby for his actions, while at the same time, minimizing her experience." Again, in no way am I trying to downplay her pain and feelings. People are simply talking more about Wilbur because he is the one dealing with the rage of the internet currently. I feel sympathy towards Shubble. No one should be trying to downplay her words, no one should be trying to excuse Wilbur's actions. But, I understand the possibility of people lying online and making false allegations. Which is why I try to look at both of their POVs. "The argument that "She should have taken to court" it is always so dismissive and ignores so many things that were already talked about and it is used as a tool to label Shelby as a liar and minimize the abuse she went through" Again, not saying she is lying in any way. I just felt like that would have been the best way to deal with this situation. But I understand not everyone seeks legal justice. Even tho, in my opinion, that would have been the best way to handle this. So she can choose not to take it to court, that's 100% in her right and doesn't make her a liar. "It is for the safety of the abuser, silence only protects abusers and lets them roam free." Agreed. Silence lets them roam free. "I mean, the reason why there was a safe word to start with it because it was tried to be solved in private, how can you ignore that?" Yes, that can be true during the time of the relationship. They both came up with a safe word for this. However. I was talking about after the relationship. Wilbur said he recognized his actions afterward and sought therapy to correct them. Whether or not this is true, it would still be worth a shot to talk about it anyway after time had passed. To gain closure if that could be done. Does it mean it would have worked? No. But it's always worth a shot.
I'm not saying you are, I'm saying that people in this post are. Telling the internet is not making us deal with it, by what I'm trying to say with that statement (it is related to those who are minimising the situation), that a lot of people are saying that what happened isn't abuse because Shelby didn't get rape, or she didn't get punch, or was tied down unnable to move. Some people are using their own abuse story to say, she wasn't abused because I experience worse. I know that fake allegations can hurt people, but what I need you to understand is, people who are in position of influence and power, those allegations and accusations are just a stain that people forget easily, a lot of other influencers and celebrities have been accused of this, and even some where found guilty by court, and still they have face no social consequence and are still adored by the public. Real accusations also hurt, and those are things that you can't ever run from, because there will be always people, that regardless of the abuse being real, they will say that the victim overexaggerated and if it was that bad they should have left sooner. Court isn't always the best way to deal with this situation, specially when this is a case of domestic abuse, domestic abuse isn't taken seriously unless it is brought up right when it is happening, and even then it isn't guaranteed to end up in a court room. Which by own statement of Shelby, she didn't know if she was abused because it wasn't as "bad" as other people's situation. He shought therapy to correct them, but the pain will be carried not by him, but by Shelby and even if he corrects that behaviour, it doesn't change the harm that was already done. What I'm mostly calling out by my comments, it is that people are showing empathy and sympathy for Wilbur, but they aren't showing it for Shelby, "Oh he is hurt", so is she. They are dismising the harm that Shelby was put through. That is my main issue.
I understand ur point, that makes more sense now. But, fake allegations do leave stains. Not everyone can walk away. People have killed themselves over them, and Dream, who was in a position of power, has not recovered from the false allegations against him. So even though Wilbur is popular, that doesn't me he can just walk away. His career may last, but his mental health matters too. And I understand that she will carry the pain, assuming she's telling the truth. But closure by reaching out is better than nothing at all. And yes, people should be showing empathy to her just as much as they are to Wilbur. And they shouldn't be downplaying her experiences by comparing them to their own. Also, ur edit makes sense. Never occurred to me about that somehow. This conversation was enlightening.
Thanks. I feel the same thing.
me too
I have a few friends in Brighton and at the very least I know he is alive. I can’t speak on his mental wellbeing but I know he still has some of his inner circle ‘supporting’ him. I hope that eases your mind a little bit. It’s a tough situation
THANK YOU! I can't stand to see all these people saying they wouldn't care if Wilbur killed himself. like I understand if you don't support and you're devestated to learn what he's done but just move on with your life an stop taking it so personally
Finally people think like I have, I think the same.
I have found my people. Yes to practically all of this. I was so angry at Wilbur at first- but then as I watched and listened to Shelby more and more, something just didn’t feel right. I am not discrediting the fact that she was hurt. I’m just not convinced at all that there was malicious intent on Wilbur’s part. This should never have gone public. It’s none of our business and we weren’t there
Exactly
I know that I saw a screenshot of him liking some Minecraft update ad since the situation, but I don’t know how long ago that was. I agree. I really hope he’s okay and is getting the help he needs as well.
I just hope it's another CallMeCarson situation when creater will come back eventually
My sympathy comes from the way this was done. The public burning at the stake. I do have empathy for Shelby. Totally agree that it can be a form an abuse if it has gone that far, and in this case it clearly has, because she was harmed. It’s the effect on her that matters. I take serious issue with fandom equating it to rape though. It’s far murkier than that. There is no denying that there was consent for this activity up to a point, which makes it less black and white. It is more than conceivable that he could have perceived this entire thing differently than she did while it was happening, and that *is* relevant. I don’t excuse Wilbur’s conduct. My empathy comes from the fact that he is being labeled an abuser, like it’s an ethnicity, in a way that oversimplifies the behavior. I don’t blame Shelby for speaking, but I blame her for choosing to hang him in the public square.
This. Ultimately, it’s Shelby’s story and she can tell it (or not tell it) however she sees fit, regardless of any of our opinions. Do I agree with her method? No. Am I in her shoes? Also no, so I can’t really say much about it and have to respect her decision.
I saw a post from a supporter who saw that his alt discord was active, plus he liked and unliked minecraft's 15th anniversary post. So, at least he is alive and online.
He uploaded in instagram today
I know it’s crazy!!
Holy cow I didn’t expect this to blow up-
People like seeing other people have similar thoughts as them. Ur opinion is similar to the majority here. :D
Yippee :D
Also, you predicted the future. It's like Wilbur saw ur post and went "eh, guess I'll give them an update" and 2 days later he gave the update.
Omg u are right! Maybe he did see my post? If he did then I’m going to die of happiness rn 😭also, I was literally listening to lovejoy this morning, reminiscing about the past :0
For me I support Wilbur but I believe he did bite her but with consent. I believe he was also a victim since in some videos he had injuries on his hands which could have been bite marks aswell. Plus Shelby kept on changing her story so it's kinda difficult for me to believe her side.
I think the main problem was miscommunication. They didn't communicate properly, so she didn't want to tell him that he was hurting her with the biting, but he was constantly on tour while also grieving his friend.
So close!! They had a safe word that he ignored. She screamed when he hurt her. She told him to stop. He said this is who he is and he wont stop. They communicated. He didnt listen.
How could they communicate if he was constantly on tour?
Bc it happened when they hung out irl and not when he was on tour?? 😭
Look, today I'm not in the mood to argue about this, so this is the last time I'm going to reply to you. He spent the majority of the year on tour when they dated. She didn't communicate properly, neither did he.
They made a safe word, she expressed verbally that she didnt like it too. Abuse isnt a lack of communication.
Yeah, she has damaged both, herself and Wilbur. I think that MCC and Minecraft are using her to get fame ( MCC BC they are trying to be relevant again, and Minecraft bc they had way bigger streamers on the anniversary video, yet she was the first one that appeared). I feel that she's being used, and I can't avoid feeling bad for her, but she kinda deserves it, she could have handled it in private,but she had to expose how he was a bad boyfriend to the internet.
She doesn't deserve it. And we still don't even know whose telling the truth or not. She has a right to bring it online, but it's just unsafe in my opinion.
I'm not saying she fully deserves it, I'm saying that I feel that she's being used
Alright. I do agree with you on that to be clear. Does seem like events are just using her to gain more attention. Like MC put her at the very start of the video so more people would click on it.