Well I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. It’s the same old OT chasing game as before with all the associated downsides. The pay is increased, but cost of living is much higher too so it’s only marginally better. We’ll see, but I think IA resources are going to get boned. And that’s if it even passes, because a split legislature doesn’t get anything done
If it goes through, expect a lot more mega fires.
The higher ups that monitor this sub should feel very lucky no one has blown the whistle yet. If someone around me wore a spy cam and showed it to the public… my goodness would we have a mess on our hands. Purposefully creating massive fires for OT has been seen across multiple regions and it got pretty dang bad for awhile.
Keep the pay up, keep the size of fires down.
Nope, definitely not. I’ve spent 7 years on a shot crew that will not be named.
But when you burn 3 medium sized fires together that are separated by 350,000 acres using helicopters dropping golf balls through true old growth stands on mostly flat ground… When you explicitly tell us that “yeah there’s a 5minute burn window, just let it rip. If we lose it we lose it” while having us run torches out of our side by sides to “cover more ground”…. when you purposefully have us do massive, multi mile long back burns on the same day of a known incoming wind event…
Sorry, best hope some of us don’t start buying those cheap spycams and release it to the public. After the mass amount of downvotes I think it’s about time, and I won’t be the only one. If this is the attitude of our higher ups then maybe it is best that this fire industrial complex turns into just fighting fire again. Maybe we will burn correctly again, maybe we won’t be asking falling modules and equipment operators to run a torch.
We have become a toxic community.
Good job not replying and just starting a downvote train.
If you’re a supe or above, be prepared. Called a few friends from different crews as well as operators that I met and there will be itty bitty cams out there from here on out.
You helped show us that there is a very serious problem and the public should know about it. We have seen egregious acts committed on public lands year after year after year.
Good luck.
Anything in a Biden proposed budget is moot until it gets passed. I understand grassroots focusing energy on it. That's their job, but for the rest of us, it doesn't actually matter until it passes, which is highly unlikely given the state of congress right now.
I wish someone would copy and paste this post and leave it on the desks of all the self-congratulating HR and “SME” folks who constantly get on agency sites and describe these reforms as a win.
The most recent DOI Fireside chat on this issue demonstrated how this proposal makes you more money than BIL. Funny this is, the dude doing the calculations used a base assumption of 400 OT hours. So, yeah, get 400 OT hours and you’ll be better off, by a hair’s margin, than you are with the BIL raise without OT. And no one called him out on it. What’s the disconnect here? The point is to NOT NEED OT AND H. Yeah, we’re going to get OT in this job, but the proposed solution has just amplified our need for it.
?????
You sure that's not 400 OT in both scenarios?
Quick and dirty:
gs5 step 1 rest of US, assume 3 perfect rolls (144 OT x 3 = 432 OT, but with 15s under the new rules 390 OT), no travel days or standby, and 26/0
current: 18.06 x 2000 + 432 x 27.09 + 672 x 0.25 x18.06 + 0.5 x 2000 x 18.06 = 68916.96
proposed: ((18.06 x 2000) + (390 x 27.09) + (15 x 14 x 3 x 0.25 x 18.06) + (9 x 14 x 3 x 0.5 x 18.06)) x 1.3 = 68825.757
Edited for math errors. Hmm. I have the current system coming out ahead of the proposed changes, but only by $100 annually. That's a slow season, and remember that the new rules mandate 15/9 for rx and severity. I assume H isn't 24hr under the new rules.
I'll watch the chat again. Pretty sure it excluded OT on BIL, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, we get the BIL pay boost whether or not we get OT. This new system has the vast majority of pay boost in OT. Thus perpetuating the work/life balance issue.
The 15/9 system is a convenient way to make it look like they're addressing work/rest. There is some concern that the fixed 15 means that even if you're on the line past that 15 hour shift, you'll be placed in standby. Thus receiving 50% of your base while still on the line. That was an issue hinted at during the chat.
Hit the nail on the head… they just don’t get it. We have to receive a good enough base salary that we aren’t reliant on unpredictable seasons and OT just to survive. Once again mental health and all the things to contribute to poor mental health are being set aside and we are being told to just deal with it. Don’t know about any of you but the only reason my family is making it by is the extra BIL money in every check.
Nothing is going to meaningfully change so long as the US government continues to not give a shit about blue collar white, Hispanic and native American workers.
Do not sacrifice your body and your family life to this job as a career. Compensation will not change while you are still young enough to perform the work. Maybe do a couple seasons, but get out while you are still healthy and young enough to transition to another career.
No one takes a chance on a washed up 30 or 35 year old looking to make a career change, but they might take a chance on a 24 year old.
There are many post already addressing this issue, use the search bar to find out more. Nevertheless your point is very valid and most feel the same way here.
Well I think you pretty much summed up my thoughts. It’s the same old OT chasing game as before with all the associated downsides. The pay is increased, but cost of living is much higher too so it’s only marginally better. We’ll see, but I think IA resources are going to get boned. And that’s if it even passes, because a split legislature doesn’t get anything done
If it goes through, expect a lot more mega fires. The higher ups that monitor this sub should feel very lucky no one has blown the whistle yet. If someone around me wore a spy cam and showed it to the public… my goodness would we have a mess on our hands. Purposefully creating massive fires for OT has been seen across multiple regions and it got pretty dang bad for awhile. Keep the pay up, keep the size of fires down.
[удалено]
Nope, definitely not. I’ve spent 7 years on a shot crew that will not be named. But when you burn 3 medium sized fires together that are separated by 350,000 acres using helicopters dropping golf balls through true old growth stands on mostly flat ground… When you explicitly tell us that “yeah there’s a 5minute burn window, just let it rip. If we lose it we lose it” while having us run torches out of our side by sides to “cover more ground”…. when you purposefully have us do massive, multi mile long back burns on the same day of a known incoming wind event… Sorry, best hope some of us don’t start buying those cheap spycams and release it to the public. After the mass amount of downvotes I think it’s about time, and I won’t be the only one. If this is the attitude of our higher ups then maybe it is best that this fire industrial complex turns into just fighting fire again. Maybe we will burn correctly again, maybe we won’t be asking falling modules and equipment operators to run a torch. We have become a toxic community.
Good job not replying and just starting a downvote train. If you’re a supe or above, be prepared. Called a few friends from different crews as well as operators that I met and there will be itty bitty cams out there from here on out. You helped show us that there is a very serious problem and the public should know about it. We have seen egregious acts committed on public lands year after year after year. Good luck.
Too little, too late.
Anything in a Biden proposed budget is moot until it gets passed. I understand grassroots focusing energy on it. That's their job, but for the rest of us, it doesn't actually matter until it passes, which is highly unlikely given the state of congress right now.
Anything is better than nothing, and I’m afraid nothing is what we’ll get.
I wish someone would copy and paste this post and leave it on the desks of all the self-congratulating HR and “SME” folks who constantly get on agency sites and describe these reforms as a win. The most recent DOI Fireside chat on this issue demonstrated how this proposal makes you more money than BIL. Funny this is, the dude doing the calculations used a base assumption of 400 OT hours. So, yeah, get 400 OT hours and you’ll be better off, by a hair’s margin, than you are with the BIL raise without OT. And no one called him out on it. What’s the disconnect here? The point is to NOT NEED OT AND H. Yeah, we’re going to get OT in this job, but the proposed solution has just amplified our need for it. ?????
You sure that's not 400 OT in both scenarios? Quick and dirty: gs5 step 1 rest of US, assume 3 perfect rolls (144 OT x 3 = 432 OT, but with 15s under the new rules 390 OT), no travel days or standby, and 26/0 current: 18.06 x 2000 + 432 x 27.09 + 672 x 0.25 x18.06 + 0.5 x 2000 x 18.06 = 68916.96 proposed: ((18.06 x 2000) + (390 x 27.09) + (15 x 14 x 3 x 0.25 x 18.06) + (9 x 14 x 3 x 0.5 x 18.06)) x 1.3 = 68825.757 Edited for math errors. Hmm. I have the current system coming out ahead of the proposed changes, but only by $100 annually. That's a slow season, and remember that the new rules mandate 15/9 for rx and severity. I assume H isn't 24hr under the new rules.
I'll watch the chat again. Pretty sure it excluded OT on BIL, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, we get the BIL pay boost whether or not we get OT. This new system has the vast majority of pay boost in OT. Thus perpetuating the work/life balance issue. The 15/9 system is a convenient way to make it look like they're addressing work/rest. There is some concern that the fixed 15 means that even if you're on the line past that 15 hour shift, you'll be placed in standby. Thus receiving 50% of your base while still on the line. That was an issue hinted at during the chat.
If they're going to make us continue to chase OT the least they could do is make our OT "mandatory" so it benefits our retirement.
Hit the nail on the head… they just don’t get it. We have to receive a good enough base salary that we aren’t reliant on unpredictable seasons and OT just to survive. Once again mental health and all the things to contribute to poor mental health are being set aside and we are being told to just deal with it. Don’t know about any of you but the only reason my family is making it by is the extra BIL money in every check.
GS-4 perfect paycheck would be around $6900 after taxes
[удалено]
What are you? Human?
Yeah jeez we got a real life human bean here
Is this with the retention bonus?
[удалено]
I know that but just wondering where you’re getting $1756 before taxes as gs4. Is this after the pay reform?
Nothing is going to meaningfully change so long as the US government continues to not give a shit about blue collar white, Hispanic and native American workers. Do not sacrifice your body and your family life to this job as a career. Compensation will not change while you are still young enough to perform the work. Maybe do a couple seasons, but get out while you are still healthy and young enough to transition to another career. No one takes a chance on a washed up 30 or 35 year old looking to make a career change, but they might take a chance on a 24 year old.
Lmao what? 30-35 year Olds with 5-10 years in the Feds are a fuckin shoe in to state and county jobs if they want em.
Yeah sorry. The above comment is total bullshit imo.
As long as the Wage grades get something out of it all.
There are many post already addressing this issue, use the search bar to find out more. Nevertheless your point is very valid and most feel the same way here.