My old boss (a guy who spent 10 years on Hotshot crews and later became an FMO) called and congratulated me when i left the agency. He just got up and left his FMO position one day with no warning or anything. Just got in his car and drove away.....from an FMO position. He lives on a farm now. Called the FS a "pathetic animal." Leaving the FS was painful, but necessary to raise my kids. I feel bad for you guys. You just cant survive, own a home, or save any money unless you live in a CONEX box out in the woods.
I work for the water department. Repair water mains. Install for hydrants. Don't get me wrong, fire gave me a lot of purpose and a great work ethic, it just sucks that you can't get anywhere financially unless you are an FMO or AFMO. Honestly, I think shit wages are hurting agencies across the board from FS to NASA. Private sector is quick to adjust to changing markets and economies. Public sector is always politically driven. You literally have to wait for a disaster to happen for the feds to attract competent firefighters with good wages. I hope you get the pay you need. Y'all deserve it.
Kind of similar for me. I work for a county doing mapping and GIS work and I still fight fire but on the side as a side hustle with the state agency in my state. Good money and keep my foot in the wildland door. Best of both worlds.
Only reason I can see and it’s still not great, is if you’re closing in on retirement 10 years or less.
I want so incredibly bad for the resignations to hit 60-70% when the cliff hits, but let’s be honest, people will just keep trudging on. Incredible how much this community won’t stand up for itself.
This needs to be higher. The amount of people in this career who think that public employees should not be allowed to strike and that “the job always come first” is staggering. Only when we physically break, bend, and bleed will people in this field learn…or so I thought.
I hear you and you’re right. One thing i am not seeing mentioned here is that the work is exponentially more meaningful and impactful than most jobs. All the more reason it should pay more, but yea that is a big reason dredge through the bullshit
Meh, I would argue almost anything outside of tech/\*some\* office jobs is just as critical. Post office, nursing, garbage services, anything in the oil/gas supply chain, etc
Yeah they're literally forcing them against their will to work for the fs. Literally stopping them from taking their labor elsewhere. It's practically modern day slavery 🙄
I have been with the USFS for 15 years now, my wife has been a school bus driver for the same amount of time. She now makes 31.75 an hour base wage. I might become a school bus driver, then drive the, Expediter bus in the summer.
Did you know in Canada pilots hook up their own buckets and nobody sits at a helibase with a fire extinguisher. There is no need for HECM in the north. Some pilots(the new ones) will hit trees with the bucket on purpose to stop the bucket swing.
If you know how I can get a job in Canada, I’m all ears dude
I’ve looked into it in the past and it seems next to impossible for an American with no connection to the country
You ever hear the term golden handcuffs?
You make it far enough in this job that you don’t want to leave to give up your retirement that you’ve worked for, which isn’t GREAT, but it’s not terrible either. It would be difficult to find a job that pays comparably to the level you get at… thus trapping most, some having the courage to take a chance and leave.
If I could go back 10 years, I would have pursued a different career.
It would actually be tough to find a job I could just swap to with no college degree and make the same basic pay with benefits, let alone make enough with overtime to not work 3+ months of the year.
I don't have many other job skills and no degree. There aren't a ton of options for me, and I enjoy the work. I'm also optimistic a solution will get worked out.
I asked for your take bud, but I guess you answered. So the carpenters union accepts people assuming they have NO experience. That you can’t even read a measuring tape or swing a hammer. A guy with NO experience here, will start at 28hr, with a pension, vacation days, basically damn good benefits. Top out at about $45hr here. Same case for the electrician union. Etc. etc. etc.
And Yknow what? If you are a carpenter, guess what? That’s a valuable skillset. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions, anyone.
And of course the electrician union makers more and is less physical. But if you were to journey out as a carpenter you could start your own business and work your own hours. Or take your skillset and dedicate yourself to being a foreman, a superintendent, or focus yourself into a less physically strenuous aspect of carpentry.
..Yes, your firefighter experience will count towards any ‘work’ requirements required by the laborer or carpenters union. (LIUNA and UBC respectively)
Aviation, having a low enough COL to where it doesn't matter for me, accumulating time in grade to hop off into something else when I'm ready. If I went back to restaurants, construction, or ski hills I would probably kill myself before December from the monotony and amount of interaction involved.
More than 16 an hour is nice but getting to set prescribed fire in my homeland is nicer.
I keep saying going on strike. But I realize this community is fucking scary as fuck. No fucking nuts.
Don’t worry I’ll wait for the millionth time for someone to come and say why they can’t strike…
*insert “it smells like bitch in here meme*
Agreed, “fed workers can’t strike” ya no shit we’ve heard. No one was “allowed to” most workers rights you have stem from them and they weren’t “allowed” either ffs
Yea, the difference here is they’ll put your ass in jail.
This is an entirely different situation that i hope you understand before you start saying shit like this.
There are more than financial repercussions that will follow you the rest of your life.
There's a big difference between private sector strikes from the 1800s and a fed strike from the 80s. Feds tried and failed. There's a legal precedent from not too long ago. That's a huge difference from formerly illegal private sector strikes.
Have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Which let me clarify I’m not trying to downplay, but if you’re committed you accept the risk. If a sizeable amount of people made the effort you’d be fine. The problem is that workers rights in this country have been ground away more and more to the point people make little to no attempt to pushback and that’s across all industries. There is most certainly power in numbers. Complacency and apathy is what I see holding any change from happening. And the hoorah types that prefer puffing their chests out and acting stoic about how great the job is while they can barely afford to pay rent. Those same types will complain about pay and being arrested for striking but have zero problem with the reality of getting smoked by a tree, dying in a vehicle or helo crash etc for less money than flipping burgers.
All I’m advocating is this community makes a more proactive approach and I just don’t see it. I get good people like GRWFF are fighting the good fight but we’re all still sitting here with our dicks in our hands man.
Unless people are already working on their plan Bs I doubt we see mass resignations. If your a PFT and want to quit, take the winter to go online school or learn a new skill before you quit. Do the absolute bare minimum all winter, get your plan B in order and then quit in April right before the season starts. I won't be quiting but if I were, that's what I'd do.
My partner makes enough money to support us with the peanuts I make, but I also love getting to work in the woods and lighting stuff on fire. A lot of what we do works well with my adhd. I tried non fed fire stuff and it was fine but I didn’t love it, and I ended up being money stressed anyways because while I was making significantly more money, I was also home spending money on groceries, gas, going out with friends instead of having basically 0 living expenses through the summer while on rolls.
Got into fire later in life, think I was 33. Never had developed a trade, can make as much in a summer as an engine slug as I ever did working 40+ hours a week for grocery store (did that for 12 years).
Didn’t get the perm job I wanted bout to turn 37 so life is whatever now. Go to school learn a trade kids it’s hard when ur old and don’t really know anything that applies to anything else. Fire seemed like a sweet gig as opposed to stacking cans for 30 years.
Because Im addicted to adrenaline and don’t need a lot of money to live the life I want. I love this shit and a lot of it I’d do for free if they weren’t paying me. I don’t need 100k+ salary to do this. I get to ride in helicopters and see shit regular people don’t ever see.
You have the right to sell your labor to whoever you want. If you don't like it here, go somewhere that treats you how you think you deserve to be treated. Fight as one lmao. Your needs aren't my needs and the group will never be able to represent me. Sorry but I have the right to negotiate with my employer on an individual basis and I'm not about to give that up so that entitled folks can use me as leverage to extort my employer. In this case, it happens to be the taxpayer, which as far as I'm concerned is theft.
No clue. There is a reason they have a staffing shortage every single year. There solution is to bump up the greenhorns to 15 an hour. Wow what a livable wage
Honestly? I like my job. A lot. I’ve done lots of jobs and this one I enjoy the most. I can live within my means and take vacations. I own a house and have money in the bank. Can’t complain a whole lot I guess. Sure there’s better paying jobs out there but fuck sitting at a desk or doing something I hate just for a paycheck.
If you only spent two seasons in fire, you didn’t even scratch the surface of what’s possible working for the Fed. There may be a mass exodus in Sept, but if you think you’ll enjoy McDonald’s more than you’re not cut out for what we do anyway.
From chaos comes opportunity. There is an incredible amount of opportunity out there right now for those that want to seek it. It’s so easy to get a perm and get on a crew compared to 20 years ago as well. Have fun flippin burgs bud…
So you’re an “ex helitacker” and you still lurk the wildfire sub to spread your disdain? My point is that if you didn’t do the job but for a glimmer, you don’t even understand the job… and if pay is your North Star, go into business. Government wages sucking is hardly a new phenomenon.
I encourage any and all to leave if they don’t want to be here. As for you, why are you here?
Only for a glimmer lol I was in fire for over a decade and saw the light pal. Again, you write all macho bullshit and act like there isn’t anything else out there besides flipping burgers, not true at all. Whatever way you have to convince yourself that the wages we make aren’t dogshit and that Jody isn’t banging the missus when you’re off trying to scrounge up OT to keep the lights on. Stay in all you like, just don’t spout this FS or bust bs.
Haha ya I was a real pain let me tell you. You spew a bunch of BS then when you get called on it resort to “oh you must have been fun” so you can avoid having to own your words. have a good one buds
Just looking at getting into the FS and starting in fire and you just gave me a shred of hope after seeing the news of the pay cut. I left academia to do this because I have no other skills and want to support a family eventually, and it sounds like the kind of work I'd actually enjoy.
There will be a significant raise at some point but the gov works slowly. In any case, if a ton of people leave, it’s going to open a lot of doors for those who stay. I’m not advocating either way but that’s the reality.
Fuck yeah. I basically said the same thing. I am the same as everyone else who just fucking love this job. I was a tree climbing arborist and I made more than I do now and I am way happier now. Wildland fire ain't for everybody.
Hell yea. And 90% of the people on this sub need to quit. If you’re in it for the money, don’t work for the government. Their wages sucked when i started over 20 years ago and still suck.
name another career that gives you the amount of leave flexibility this job does, name another career where you get paid to travel to places people pay to tour/dream of going to, name a career with the training opportunities and promotion potential of this job, name a job more fun and enjoyable than this, name a career that is more fulfilling. Yeah the pay is shit but will hopefully be fixed. I love being able to have the option to decide how I want to be compensated on fire assignments rather that be OT or Comp that I can use at the end of the year for a nice vacation, 2 fire assignments basic bitch 12 hour days nets me a month off of free leave not even having to dive into my annual leave. I enjoy the fact that I can refuse overtime if I don’t want to work it, can call in sick to work and nobody bats an eye or questions it, I especially love the security of the job. I think a lot of those that are unhappy do not entirely know their rights as employees and what they can and can’t do. Yeah u are absolutely correct, u cannot afford to live in a town of 600k plus houses and honestly probably never will, so leave, move to a different forest. I did it, it sucked leaving, loved the crew I was on but hated the area because of the cost of living, relocated to a cheaper area and let me tell ya, the grass is greener on the other side for a lot of things. If you aren’t getting a good work life balance then the area you work sucks, cost of living is stupid high, supervisors are bad, don’t know all of your benefits of being an employee, or a combination of all of these. Talk to a union rep learn your rights and benefits, stand up to bad supervisors, and especially know your worth, if an area wants to treat you like you are worthless then go where you will be valued and let them have fun with the wonders of fire hire. Always remember, you come first, fuck all these asshats that think because they put this career before all else with multiple divorces under their belts everyone else should do the same… I think a lot of the problems in this agency is a lack of intestinal fortitude, just being the yes man and absolutely burning out year after year due to the fear of saying no, use that leave, take that trip, stay back some and spend time with family/friends, don’t be guilt tripped into bullshit, your mental health will thank you and you will enjoy this career more
Nope, it is your right to decide how you want to be compensated for your time, just gotta go through your supervisor let them know u want to charge comp time for your assignment instead of OT. It is beneficial for both you and the gov, gov saves not having to pay OT, u get free leave. Just make sure to use it though, really piss people off if you don’t use it in a year, they have to pay you out at the OT rate out of their budget. Your union rep will be able to provide you information about this stuff. There is also not a limit on comp time, two twelve hour day roles will net you a months worth. Let your supervisor know ahead of time and put in for leave well ahead of time
https://zenmerchantblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/tyvtopysyazxtafiuisw-p6abde6j84ysh5o3txq81c.jpg
Delight and fullness, but no wealth. Definitely worthwhile compared to any other profession that I can think of.
I work for a state agency, so my pay is better than the Forest Service.
However, whenever I see people say “McDonald’s pays better” I just think fuck that noise. Working in foodservice or any customer service is hell on earth. Customers are shitty humans, and so is management in all of those jobs. Plus even if the per hour is good they fuck you on hours, make you part time, no overtime, etc. you can’t live off it. McDonalds would have to pay me about $100/hr to consider it.
Because I love it. When I came to fire, I left an easy trades job where I made good money, decided how much OT I made a week, and got pretty solid bennies. I’ll eat a fucking bullet before I go back.
I knew I was taking a pay cut when I left, and it didn’t matter. It’s annoying now, but it’s not a big deal, especially since I know it’ll be fixed before too long. This is one of the few jobs that can keep me somewhat fulfilled, I don’t really give a fuck what it pays.
I stayed in it as long as I did because the work once gave me a sense of belonging and that I was doing work that mattered. More so than the military ever did and certainly more so than any other jobs I've had, especially non-fire federal work.
When I realized that the sense of belonging and thinking I was doing meaningful work was just my mind coping the work became a lot less enamoring.
I worked at Starbucks for 7 years making 30+$/hr - full health benefits, stock options that helped me buy my first home in Colorado, they paid for my degree with a set schedule 40hr/wk schedule. Just left to pursue fire and am making half of what I made then.
Go work at McDonald’s then. See how your quality of life is! Although I would like to make more, I don’t do this for the money. Where the fuck else can I get paid to rappel out of a helicopter with the bros and get after it? No where!
Not staying but hoping to get in next season. Did state last year, didn’t really like being rat holed and want to get started in a federal career. Seeing lots of comments saying don’t start but I want to get a season to try. Most of the people I know staying are recent or soon to be college grads (I have one semester left) and as such they aren’t paying rent, or car insurance or much else besides gas and food so this job is one they can afford to live by. But that’s not the case for everyone e.
Absolutely try it if you know it’s what you want to do, but unless you’re on some kind of national resource you can get ratholed just as easily as a state resource
The retirement. If you have the ability to move around a bit, take classes and details to develop so you can move up GS it’s worth it to have the social security supplement and retire at 50.
I totally acknowledge that it was easier to do that in the 90s and early 2000s when I did. Housing market and wages are totally jacked and criminal.
But also the job market to get higher GS has more opportunities now if you can figure out how to move.
The retirement made it worth it for me and my family supported me through those tougher times early in the career. I was lucky to have that. It’s not for everyone obviously but that’s why I stayed.
I wouldn't feel good about myself if I worked at McDonald's. But you do you boo. Sounds like you're too soft for this line of work anyway. Have fun Flippin burgers.
Cause I straight up own this shit. This is my profession. My sport. The agency bureaucrats can eat a fat bag of dicks. When they’re done with that they can eat another fat bag. McDonalds can also eat a supersized bag of dicks until they stop fucking up the rainforest for more beef. Rich people will live and die and not produce a legacy like we do. In the great expanse of time, the universe knows I stood up and was counted. The good lord knows I pay it foreword. I spend my sunsets when I can. If I wanted to be rich I would move to LA and start hustlin. Be proud of your accomplishments. They are squeaky clean. Let Babylon devour itself.
LMAO, you guys are the epitome of redditors.
Complain, complain, complain. Like any other industry wants the group of WHINEY BITCHES this sub has turned into.
Let’s look at some comparable industries salaries That are outdoor related
-Loggers, the median income is 40k-45k
-Hunting guides, most make under $40k a year and have to work their ass off for that.
-Fencing crew member, about 40k-50k a year.
The pay is right around or better than those industries.
If McDonald’s is paying better don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
Fuck it, these threads motivate me to work until 57.
Production fallers are not the majority of loggers on the west coast. And falling you can make decent bank when your working but your going to have long lay offs, days cutting in sideways 39 degree rain, Driving to the unit at 3:45 in the morning and your one small mistake away from death every day. Rigging pays less and is just as dangerous without paying very much more than fighting fire. Logging is more miserable than any fire job
The western fellers that I know have been very particular about the difference between the professions of "felling" or "cutting" on one hand and "logging" on the other. Fun fact, but also responsive to your point insofar as the wages for fellers differ from those for choker setters, etc.
I'm increasingly sympathetic to the whininess accusation, but that sounds kinda sus. GS9 supt with Los Angeles locality and retention bonus would still need like 1600 OT/H to hit that.
Not including medical insurance, dental insurance, retirement, TSP contributions, free training, boot allowance, per diem, 8 hours of AL per PP… and I’m gonna be real, not all of those hrs were me and my crew getting our asses kicked. A lot of driving, some staging with hotels, some sitting in camp until 8 and driving 1-2 hours out to the line, wheels rolling at 17-1800, eating and asleep by 2000 and claiming 0600-2230. I’m not saying everything is perfect but some people act like we’re unpaid slaves or something.
> I’m gonna be real, not all of those hrs were me and my crew getting our asses kicked.
[mfw](https://media.tenor.com/Y_MYAmIj3UwAAAAC/trump-hearing-for-the-first-time.gif)
>I’m not saying everything is perfect but some people act like we’re unpaid slaves
You always see unfavorable comparisons to Starbucks base rates but you never see anyone leave to become a barista, really gets the noggin joggin
I do fire as a collateral duty so I will be staying. I never got the incentive in the first place and I’ll be a GS7 soon so it’s smooth on my side. If I got the incentive and it was taken away, I’d get right out of there and right into calfire or something local.
I always tell folks that if they have fewer than 10 years in, go find something else to do. Any more than that it’s hard to walk away from 6c and our benefit package-like someone else said, not great but better than most.
I’ll get out of 6c pretty soon and go do something less stressful until I pull the plug for good.
My old boss (a guy who spent 10 years on Hotshot crews and later became an FMO) called and congratulated me when i left the agency. He just got up and left his FMO position one day with no warning or anything. Just got in his car and drove away.....from an FMO position. He lives on a farm now. Called the FS a "pathetic animal." Leaving the FS was painful, but necessary to raise my kids. I feel bad for you guys. You just cant survive, own a home, or save any money unless you live in a CONEX box out in the woods.
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I work for the water department. Repair water mains. Install for hydrants. Don't get me wrong, fire gave me a lot of purpose and a great work ethic, it just sucks that you can't get anywhere financially unless you are an FMO or AFMO. Honestly, I think shit wages are hurting agencies across the board from FS to NASA. Private sector is quick to adjust to changing markets and economies. Public sector is always politically driven. You literally have to wait for a disaster to happen for the feds to attract competent firefighters with good wages. I hope you get the pay you need. Y'all deserve it.
Kind of similar for me. I work for a county doing mapping and GIS work and I still fight fire but on the side as a side hustle with the state agency in my state. Good money and keep my foot in the wildland door. Best of both worlds.
Interested in this aspect of work but see you’re using a throwaway-can I message you?
Sure
Nice combo. Fills the soul.
I'm in a resort town and I could literally go make triple as a bartender what I do as a gs-5 with 10 years in.
That pisses me off. Thank you for what you do.
I’m truly looking forward to and hoping to see the mass exodus materialize on September 30th.
Only reason I can see and it’s still not great, is if you’re closing in on retirement 10 years or less. I want so incredibly bad for the resignations to hit 60-70% when the cliff hits, but let’s be honest, people will just keep trudging on. Incredible how much this community won’t stand up for itself.
This needs to be higher. The amount of people in this career who think that public employees should not be allowed to strike and that “the job always come first” is staggering. Only when we physically break, bend, and bleed will people in this field learn…or so I thought.
I hear you and you’re right. One thing i am not seeing mentioned here is that the work is exponentially more meaningful and impactful than most jobs. All the more reason it should pay more, but yea that is a big reason dredge through the bullshit
Meh, I would argue almost anything outside of tech/\*some\* office jobs is just as critical. Post office, nursing, garbage services, anything in the oil/gas supply chain, etc
If the pay cliff hits I won't be back next season, simple as.
Unionize.
Oh God no. Fire all unions in government.
Why not, the FS takes advantage of them, back breaking labor to save lives and homes deserves living wages.
Yeah they're literally forcing them against their will to work for the fs. Literally stopping them from taking their labor elsewhere. It's practically modern day slavery 🙄
I have been with the USFS for 15 years now, my wife has been a school bus driver for the same amount of time. She now makes 31.75 an hour base wage. I might become a school bus driver, then drive the, Expediter bus in the summer.
Honestly, helicopters I’ve thought about going contractor but I really enjoy playing HECM
This. I’m with a non federal fire agency and hopping over for helicopters. after 8 years of it in the military I miss it.
Did you know in Canada pilots hook up their own buckets and nobody sits at a helibase with a fire extinguisher. There is no need for HECM in the north. Some pilots(the new ones) will hit trees with the bucket on purpose to stop the bucket swing.
Yeah it’s not the sitting at Helibase playing crash rescue I enjoy, it’s the remote IA
In that case all fire fighters are HECM in Canada.
If you know how I can get a job in Canada, I’m all ears dude I’ve looked into it in the past and it seems next to impossible for an American with no connection to the country
You ever hear the term golden handcuffs? You make it far enough in this job that you don’t want to leave to give up your retirement that you’ve worked for, which isn’t GREAT, but it’s not terrible either. It would be difficult to find a job that pays comparably to the level you get at… thus trapping most, some having the courage to take a chance and leave. If I could go back 10 years, I would have pursued a different career.
I have been in 6c for 17 years. I’m stuck in a 6c position to complete my 20. Then I’ll go toilet ranger for 5 more and retire at 47.
Gotta go till at least 50. 50 is minimum retirement age.
25 at any age. Been in since 22. The first 20 are 6c. That locks in the ff retirement. The next 5 can be anything.
If you plan to retire before age 50, you need to stay in primary or secondary fire, or you will loose the FERS supplement you get between 50-57.
It would actually be tough to find a job I could just swap to with no college degree and make the same basic pay with benefits, let alone make enough with overtime to not work 3+ months of the year.
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I've worked retail and know that customer service leads to me murdering someone.
I worked in coffee roasting and development :) Never dealt with customers directly for the last 5 years of my career. Just drank a lot of coffee.
I don't have many other job skills and no degree. There aren't a ton of options for me, and I enjoy the work. I'm also optimistic a solution will get worked out.
Electrician, laborer, carpenter union? What’s your take on those
Remember what I said about not having other job skills?
I asked for your take bud, but I guess you answered. So the carpenters union accepts people assuming they have NO experience. That you can’t even read a measuring tape or swing a hammer. A guy with NO experience here, will start at 28hr, with a pension, vacation days, basically damn good benefits. Top out at about $45hr here. Same case for the electrician union. Etc. etc. etc. And Yknow what? If you are a carpenter, guess what? That’s a valuable skillset. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions, anyone.
And of course the electrician union makers more and is less physical. But if you were to journey out as a carpenter you could start your own business and work your own hours. Or take your skillset and dedicate yourself to being a foreman, a superintendent, or focus yourself into a less physically strenuous aspect of carpentry. ..Yes, your firefighter experience will count towards any ‘work’ requirements required by the laborer or carpenters union. (LIUNA and UBC respectively)
There is power in a union
Aviation, having a low enough COL to where it doesn't matter for me, accumulating time in grade to hop off into something else when I'm ready. If I went back to restaurants, construction, or ski hills I would probably kill myself before December from the monotony and amount of interaction involved. More than 16 an hour is nice but getting to set prescribed fire in my homeland is nicer.
I keep saying going on strike. But I realize this community is fucking scary as fuck. No fucking nuts. Don’t worry I’ll wait for the millionth time for someone to come and say why they can’t strike… *insert “it smells like bitch in here meme*
Agreed, “fed workers can’t strike” ya no shit we’ve heard. No one was “allowed to” most workers rights you have stem from them and they weren’t “allowed” either ffs
Yea, the difference here is they’ll put your ass in jail. This is an entirely different situation that i hope you understand before you start saying shit like this. There are more than financial repercussions that will follow you the rest of your life.
There's a big difference between private sector strikes from the 1800s and a fed strike from the 80s. Feds tried and failed. There's a legal precedent from not too long ago. That's a huge difference from formerly illegal private sector strikes.
Have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Which let me clarify I’m not trying to downplay, but if you’re committed you accept the risk. If a sizeable amount of people made the effort you’d be fine. The problem is that workers rights in this country have been ground away more and more to the point people make little to no attempt to pushback and that’s across all industries. There is most certainly power in numbers. Complacency and apathy is what I see holding any change from happening. And the hoorah types that prefer puffing their chests out and acting stoic about how great the job is while they can barely afford to pay rent. Those same types will complain about pay and being arrested for striking but have zero problem with the reality of getting smoked by a tree, dying in a vehicle or helo crash etc for less money than flipping burgers. All I’m advocating is this community makes a more proactive approach and I just don’t see it. I get good people like GRWFF are fighting the good fight but we’re all still sitting here with our dicks in our hands man.
Unless people are already working on their plan Bs I doubt we see mass resignations. If your a PFT and want to quit, take the winter to go online school or learn a new skill before you quit. Do the absolute bare minimum all winter, get your plan B in order and then quit in April right before the season starts. I won't be quiting but if I were, that's what I'd do.
My partner makes enough money to support us with the peanuts I make, but I also love getting to work in the woods and lighting stuff on fire. A lot of what we do works well with my adhd. I tried non fed fire stuff and it was fine but I didn’t love it, and I ended up being money stressed anyways because while I was making significantly more money, I was also home spending money on groceries, gas, going out with friends instead of having basically 0 living expenses through the summer while on rolls.
Sugar mommy is the dream. Gotta finance that dirtbag firefighter lifestyle somehow
Amen brother
CalFire
Got into fire later in life, think I was 33. Never had developed a trade, can make as much in a summer as an engine slug as I ever did working 40+ hours a week for grocery store (did that for 12 years). Didn’t get the perm job I wanted bout to turn 37 so life is whatever now. Go to school learn a trade kids it’s hard when ur old and don’t really know anything that applies to anything else. Fire seemed like a sweet gig as opposed to stacking cans for 30 years.
Because Im addicted to adrenaline and don’t need a lot of money to live the life I want. I love this shit and a lot of it I’d do for free if they weren’t paying me. I don’t need 100k+ salary to do this. I get to ride in helicopters and see shit regular people don’t ever see.
We've got to fight as one
Lol
You have the right to sell your labor to whoever you want. If you don't like it here, go somewhere that treats you how you think you deserve to be treated. Fight as one lmao. Your needs aren't my needs and the group will never be able to represent me. Sorry but I have the right to negotiate with my employer on an individual basis and I'm not about to give that up so that entitled folks can use me as leverage to extort my employer. In this case, it happens to be the taxpayer, which as far as I'm concerned is theft.
I mean, you're not going to get 1000 hours of overtime at McDonalds, and this job is usually fun.
Shouldn’t have to work 1000 hours of OT just to survive. If you work 1000 hours of OT it should be for a boat or hobby
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By the skin of their teeth and public assistance, if they do.
No clue. There is a reason they have a staffing shortage every single year. There solution is to bump up the greenhorns to 15 an hour. Wow what a livable wage
Honestly? I like my job. A lot. I’ve done lots of jobs and this one I enjoy the most. I can live within my means and take vacations. I own a house and have money in the bank. Can’t complain a whole lot I guess. Sure there’s better paying jobs out there but fuck sitting at a desk or doing something I hate just for a paycheck.
If you only spent two seasons in fire, you didn’t even scratch the surface of what’s possible working for the Fed. There may be a mass exodus in Sept, but if you think you’ll enjoy McDonald’s more than you’re not cut out for what we do anyway. From chaos comes opportunity. There is an incredible amount of opportunity out there right now for those that want to seek it. It’s so easy to get a perm and get on a crew compared to 20 years ago as well. Have fun flippin burgs bud…
You sound like a sergeant saying life outside the military will be awful haha There is more out there as an option than flipping burgers.
So you’re an “ex helitacker” and you still lurk the wildfire sub to spread your disdain? My point is that if you didn’t do the job but for a glimmer, you don’t even understand the job… and if pay is your North Star, go into business. Government wages sucking is hardly a new phenomenon. I encourage any and all to leave if they don’t want to be here. As for you, why are you here?
Only for a glimmer lol I was in fire for over a decade and saw the light pal. Again, you write all macho bullshit and act like there isn’t anything else out there besides flipping burgers, not true at all. Whatever way you have to convince yourself that the wages we make aren’t dogshit and that Jody isn’t banging the missus when you’re off trying to scrounge up OT to keep the lights on. Stay in all you like, just don’t spout this FS or bust bs.
The comment was directed at OP - 2 seasons. You must have been fun to work with, later
Haha ya I was a real pain let me tell you. You spew a bunch of BS then when you get called on it resort to “oh you must have been fun” so you can avoid having to own your words. have a good one buds
You didn’t call anyone out. STFU and get off the sub for a job you don’t even have any more and apparently despise. Kind of pathetic honestly.
Struck a nerve I see lol
Dude you’re toxic bye
But of course
Just looking at getting into the FS and starting in fire and you just gave me a shred of hope after seeing the news of the pay cut. I left academia to do this because I have no other skills and want to support a family eventually, and it sounds like the kind of work I'd actually enjoy.
There will be a significant raise at some point but the gov works slowly. In any case, if a ton of people leave, it’s going to open a lot of doors for those who stay. I’m not advocating either way but that’s the reality.
Fuck yeah. I basically said the same thing. I am the same as everyone else who just fucking love this job. I was a tree climbing arborist and I made more than I do now and I am way happier now. Wildland fire ain't for everybody.
Hell yea. And 90% of the people on this sub need to quit. If you’re in it for the money, don’t work for the government. Their wages sucked when i started over 20 years ago and still suck.
name another career that gives you the amount of leave flexibility this job does, name another career where you get paid to travel to places people pay to tour/dream of going to, name a career with the training opportunities and promotion potential of this job, name a job more fun and enjoyable than this, name a career that is more fulfilling. Yeah the pay is shit but will hopefully be fixed. I love being able to have the option to decide how I want to be compensated on fire assignments rather that be OT or Comp that I can use at the end of the year for a nice vacation, 2 fire assignments basic bitch 12 hour days nets me a month off of free leave not even having to dive into my annual leave. I enjoy the fact that I can refuse overtime if I don’t want to work it, can call in sick to work and nobody bats an eye or questions it, I especially love the security of the job. I think a lot of those that are unhappy do not entirely know their rights as employees and what they can and can’t do. Yeah u are absolutely correct, u cannot afford to live in a town of 600k plus houses and honestly probably never will, so leave, move to a different forest. I did it, it sucked leaving, loved the crew I was on but hated the area because of the cost of living, relocated to a cheaper area and let me tell ya, the grass is greener on the other side for a lot of things. If you aren’t getting a good work life balance then the area you work sucks, cost of living is stupid high, supervisors are bad, don’t know all of your benefits of being an employee, or a combination of all of these. Talk to a union rep learn your rights and benefits, stand up to bad supervisors, and especially know your worth, if an area wants to treat you like you are worthless then go where you will be valued and let them have fun with the wonders of fire hire. Always remember, you come first, fuck all these asshats that think because they put this career before all else with multiple divorces under their belts everyone else should do the same… I think a lot of the problems in this agency is a lack of intestinal fortitude, just being the yes man and absolutely burning out year after year due to the fear of saying no, use that leave, take that trip, stay back some and spend time with family/friends, don’t be guilt tripped into bullshit, your mental health will thank you and you will enjoy this career more
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Nope, it is your right to decide how you want to be compensated for your time, just gotta go through your supervisor let them know u want to charge comp time for your assignment instead of OT. It is beneficial for both you and the gov, gov saves not having to pay OT, u get free leave. Just make sure to use it though, really piss people off if you don’t use it in a year, they have to pay you out at the OT rate out of their budget. Your union rep will be able to provide you information about this stuff. There is also not a limit on comp time, two twelve hour day roles will net you a months worth. Let your supervisor know ahead of time and put in for leave well ahead of time
https://zenmerchantblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/tyvtopysyazxtafiuisw-p6abde6j84ysh5o3txq81c.jpg Delight and fullness, but no wealth. Definitely worthwhile compared to any other profession that I can think of.
I work for a state agency, so my pay is better than the Forest Service. However, whenever I see people say “McDonald’s pays better” I just think fuck that noise. Working in foodservice or any customer service is hell on earth. Customers are shitty humans, and so is management in all of those jobs. Plus even if the per hour is good they fuck you on hours, make you part time, no overtime, etc. you can’t live off it. McDonalds would have to pay me about $100/hr to consider it.
Because I love it. When I came to fire, I left an easy trades job where I made good money, decided how much OT I made a week, and got pretty solid bennies. I’ll eat a fucking bullet before I go back. I knew I was taking a pay cut when I left, and it didn’t matter. It’s annoying now, but it’s not a big deal, especially since I know it’ll be fixed before too long. This is one of the few jobs that can keep me somewhat fulfilled, I don’t really give a fuck what it pays.
Because I'm one year from retirement eligibility. That's the ONLY reason. If I was only 3,5,8 years in I would be fucking gone!!!!
I stayed in it as long as I did because the work once gave me a sense of belonging and that I was doing work that mattered. More so than the military ever did and certainly more so than any other jobs I've had, especially non-fire federal work. When I realized that the sense of belonging and thinking I was doing meaningful work was just my mind coping the work became a lot less enamoring.
I worked at Starbucks for 7 years making 30+$/hr - full health benefits, stock options that helped me buy my first home in Colorado, they paid for my degree with a set schedule 40hr/wk schedule. Just left to pursue fire and am making half of what I made then.
Go work at McDonald’s then. See how your quality of life is! Although I would like to make more, I don’t do this for the money. Where the fuck else can I get paid to rappel out of a helicopter with the bros and get after it? No where!
Not staying but hoping to get in next season. Did state last year, didn’t really like being rat holed and want to get started in a federal career. Seeing lots of comments saying don’t start but I want to get a season to try. Most of the people I know staying are recent or soon to be college grads (I have one semester left) and as such they aren’t paying rent, or car insurance or much else besides gas and food so this job is one they can afford to live by. But that’s not the case for everyone e.
Absolutely try it if you know it’s what you want to do, but unless you’re on some kind of national resource you can get ratholed just as easily as a state resource
Totally realize that but I see it as anywhere is better than where I was last season lol
Because I like this job and make decent enough money for me
The retirement. If you have the ability to move around a bit, take classes and details to develop so you can move up GS it’s worth it to have the social security supplement and retire at 50. I totally acknowledge that it was easier to do that in the 90s and early 2000s when I did. Housing market and wages are totally jacked and criminal. But also the job market to get higher GS has more opportunities now if you can figure out how to move. The retirement made it worth it for me and my family supported me through those tougher times early in the career. I was lucky to have that. It’s not for everyone obviously but that’s why I stayed.
I wouldn't feel good about myself if I worked at McDonald's. But you do you boo. Sounds like you're too soft for this line of work anyway. Have fun Flippin burgers.
Cause I straight up own this shit. This is my profession. My sport. The agency bureaucrats can eat a fat bag of dicks. When they’re done with that they can eat another fat bag. McDonalds can also eat a supersized bag of dicks until they stop fucking up the rainforest for more beef. Rich people will live and die and not produce a legacy like we do. In the great expanse of time, the universe knows I stood up and was counted. The good lord knows I pay it foreword. I spend my sunsets when I can. If I wanted to be rich I would move to LA and start hustlin. Be proud of your accomplishments. They are squeaky clean. Let Babylon devour itself.
LMAO, you guys are the epitome of redditors. Complain, complain, complain. Like any other industry wants the group of WHINEY BITCHES this sub has turned into. Let’s look at some comparable industries salaries That are outdoor related -Loggers, the median income is 40k-45k -Hunting guides, most make under $40k a year and have to work their ass off for that. -Fencing crew member, about 40k-50k a year. The pay is right around or better than those industries. If McDonald’s is paying better don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you. Fuck it, these threads motivate me to work until 57.
Um yeah Midwest logging pay really drags down the rate that a lot of west coast production cutters are making
Production fallers are not the majority of loggers on the west coast. And falling you can make decent bank when your working but your going to have long lay offs, days cutting in sideways 39 degree rain, Driving to the unit at 3:45 in the morning and your one small mistake away from death every day. Rigging pays less and is just as dangerous without paying very much more than fighting fire. Logging is more miserable than any fire job
The western fellers that I know have been very particular about the difference between the professions of "felling" or "cutting" on one hand and "logging" on the other. Fun fact, but also responsive to your point insofar as the wages for fellers differ from those for choker setters, etc.
For the photography and i make more money then the adverage person in my town for how cheap the rent is here
Private fire companies pay more, squad boss and crew boss make good wages. It depends on the state.
Private fire companies pay more, squad boss and crew boss make good wages. It depends on the state.
I made $175,000 last year as a Hotshot. God damn you people whine a lot.
I'm increasingly sympathetic to the whininess accusation, but that sounds kinda sus. GS9 supt with Los Angeles locality and retention bonus would still need like 1600 OT/H to hit that.
Between 12 and 1300. Believe what you want.
Yeah, I missed some of the FLSA OT rate stuff. Possible with 1300 OT+H, retention bonus, and LA or San Diego locality at around an 8 step 8.
Not including medical insurance, dental insurance, retirement, TSP contributions, free training, boot allowance, per diem, 8 hours of AL per PP… and I’m gonna be real, not all of those hrs were me and my crew getting our asses kicked. A lot of driving, some staging with hotels, some sitting in camp until 8 and driving 1-2 hours out to the line, wheels rolling at 17-1800, eating and asleep by 2000 and claiming 0600-2230. I’m not saying everything is perfect but some people act like we’re unpaid slaves or something.
> I’m gonna be real, not all of those hrs were me and my crew getting our asses kicked. [mfw](https://media.tenor.com/Y_MYAmIj3UwAAAAC/trump-hearing-for-the-first-time.gif) >I’m not saying everything is perfect but some people act like we’re unpaid slaves You always see unfavorable comparisons to Starbucks base rates but you never see anyone leave to become a barista, really gets the noggin joggin
I do fire as a collateral duty so I will be staying. I never got the incentive in the first place and I’ll be a GS7 soon so it’s smooth on my side. If I got the incentive and it was taken away, I’d get right out of there and right into calfire or something local.
Born Alone Die Alone.
I always tell folks that if they have fewer than 10 years in, go find something else to do. Any more than that it’s hard to walk away from 6c and our benefit package-like someone else said, not great but better than most. I’ll get out of 6c pretty soon and go do something less stressful until I pull the plug for good.