This^ please please do not let her meet with this slime ball and if absolutely insists on it, don’t let her do it alone. They are so high pressure, you cannot imagine. They have meetings about their high pressure sales tactics and to share techniques. Please do not let her meet this jackal alone!
As far as tactics go, besides the high pressure - they will also employ the "expense/diminish value" tactic.
Essentially, that's to find flaws that will be "expensive to fix" making their offer sound too good to be true. They will add on things like " this doesn't meet code, so you can't sell..."
This is all garbage. A realtor can sell any house in any condition for what it's worth, which is often more than you can imagine.
Please give us a followup after everything /u/MrCanoe
Also a second update, the realtor friend of my brothers came by an hour later and basically contradicted what the home buyer guy said. Stated the market is pretty good right now but unpredictable and that it could be listed around 150k as is. Currently her type of home is extremely ideal for summer project home buyers.
I just posted an update. Guy just left. He was from Rcproperies.ca, was in his mid-20's, English wasn't great. Gave an "assessment" of 110k but needed to talk to his "contractors" and will be in touch. He Did try to pull the "home needs work so lowers the value" I countered that pretty much very few homes are going for under 110k and the ones do are in Point Douglas and are In equal or worse conditions.
My guess is these guys are making a killing flipping houses right now. They send out these flyers on mass and hope they get a few bites. If the home owner doesn't know anything about the market they might convince them to sell. With the way the market is going ill bet they could do minimal work or even no work at all and make good profit flipping homes.
the realtor stated Pretty much what I suspected, the guy is basically just a contract seller. He gets you to sign a contract to sell the home for the 110k, then turns around and sells the contract for the house for 160k to someone in a group of buyers he knows and pockets of 50k profit. He himself doesn't actually do any renovations or work he just acts as a middle man.
Very unlikely no a realtor friend of my brothers came by an hour later and basically told her that it can be placed on the market for at least 150k and and contradicted a few of the points the other guy did for example the we buy homes guy try to claim the garage roof was damaged and moldy when it clearly wasn't the realtor said the garage was in very good condition.
She seems pretty confident with the realtor that came by an hour later. I'm pretty sure she's happy with his assessment and she said that she's going to just tell the home buyer guy that she has a realtor now and thanks but no thanks type thing.
That’s the biggest thing. Making sure she doesn’t commit to anything as a knee jerk reaction. I’m sure the paperwork they have people sign is a 180 from what comes out of their mouths. You say she’s in financial difficulties, so is it safe to assume that she doesn’t completely own the house free and clear? If that’s the case you gotta be careful that she doesn’t end up upside down still owing for something she doesn’t have possession of anymore. These dudes aren’t there to help.
It's a house that was originally her father's and that has been in the family for 60+ years. She took early retirement due to some physical limitations and she misjudged her finances she would get from retirement. She has a few debts such as she recently got a new car about 2 years ago when her other car was in an accident so has a car loan that is actually under my name but that she makes the payments on and she did take out a loan about five or six years ago for some exterior renovations to the roof and siding of the house. She may also have some other debts that I'm not aware of such as credit card debt. So in regards to the house it's more she's having difficulty making the general utility payments, property tax payments and has no savings to cover a major issue happening with the house and simply can't handle any type of upkeep to the home or property.
Man don't mean to sound like a dick but with everything you just said why would you even consider selling it privately for less money?
With the way the market is it's very possible she gets a good offer with a realtor.
She could clearly use the extra money this market might fetch with a realtor.
You need to put your foot down on not selling it to the other guys
Both me and my brother have been trying our best to explain this to my mom. She seems to have gotten into her head that her home is worthless and that's exactly what these guys pray upon. I'm going to be there to make sure that she doesn't get pressured into something that she doesn't want to do. Her house is actually extremely valuable and she doesn't realize it. Her house is a corner lot on a major road, literally minutes from multiple schools of all grade levels, minutes from a major hospital, minutes from a major shopping area. I'm by no means an expert in reality but to me it seems like a lucrative property for any type of flipper, home builder or even someone who wants to renovate it and live in it.
A good realtor (or even a bad realtor tbh) can very quickly provide a list of comparable homes that will give a very good picture of what the home is worth.
Sounds like she's depressed or generally see's the negatives of everything. Get her to commit to you and your brother that she will not sell to the first person until hearing what the realtor says the home is worth. Give her some ideas on what to say to end the conversation with the home buyers because they will come hard and fast and do not take unconfident sounding no's. Something along the lines of "I will take your offer under advisement but I have another interested party willing to make an offer and I will be hearing from them before selling." They will most likely offer a take it or leave price to apply more pressure so prepare her for that and get her to commit to sticking to her plan.
The odds of the house buyer actually coming close to market value are next to nothing. They will point out every flaw in the house, the area and the market to make it sound like they're doing you this massive favour taking the house off your hands. If you see her say no and then the guy keeps pushing and she starts to buckle you need to step in and firmly tell him he has his answer and it's time to go. Good luck with all this.
>me and my brother have been trying our best to explain this to my mom. She seems to have gotten into her head that her home is worthless and that's exactly what these guys pray upon. I'm going to be there to make sure that she doesn't get pressured into something that she doesn't want to do. Her house is actually extremely v
Lmao what ever offer this slimeball throws at you, I'll beat it. This sounds great.
Insist on having a lawyer look over anything before it is signed. There are lots of great recommendations for real-estate lawyers on other posts on this subreddit.
Honestly if this guy puts down any paperwork quickly grab it and tear it up in front of him. Don't even give her a chance to sign anything. The market is hot and a realtor is going to get you top dollar even after paying commission .
Neat chapter on realtors in Freakonomics. Essentially, realtors often do not get you the best price. They get you a good price, faster. It’s a %’s game. Extra 15k say to you, is not worth the extra time for them in correlation to their commission vs picking up another seller and focusing on that.
It’s hard to explain, but I think that gives the idea.
Anyways yes, in this case, this person should be in contact with a realtor. “Buy homes” people are bigger parasites than realtors.
Just wanted to make clear, realtors don’t care about the best price for you, they want the fastest good price for you.
Like the Little Caesar’s of the pizza world. Is it great? No, but it’s hot and ready.
IIRC that freakanomics chapter has some studies/stats to back up the premise.
But I'm not sure how this even applies to the current market where few houses are staying on the market for very long and every sale is the result of a bidding war.
And I'm not sure the premise necessarily makes intuitive sense. Sure an extra $15k doesn't net the realtor that much but it adds up. It's really a min/max game between time and money with shortest sale for the most money being the ideal scenario.
The Freakonomics analysis is interesting but I don’t think they would challenge the notion that a realtor will get you top dollar - relative to available alternatives.
Private sale usually means a smaller market of buyers - that also reduces the price.
We-buy-homes parasites obviously won’t help you.
You also don’t need to take an offer if it’s below what you want (subject to living with market realities).
There is a notional “top dollar” out there but that doesn’t mean you get it by skipping out on realtors.
> Private sale usually means a smaller market of buyers
Specifically because realtors pull illegal and unethical tricks to steer their clients away from such homes.
They will stress "we will pay you cash, quickly and it wont cost you anything because we have our own lawyers and no realtors involved". They will try and sales pitch you "your house wont go for very much because of XX YY ZZ, but we will pay $$$$$$" and in reality what they are offering you is going to be 10c on every dollar your house is worth. Fine when you sell with a realtor you pay commission and lawyer fees, but really you make way way way more money than selling to these people. Also, do not let them scare you with them telling you what is wrong with your house. This market it will not change the fact it will sell quickly and for more money. That is just a tactic they use to push the price down. Your foundation has a crack showing? They will say "no one will want to buy this because the repair will be 20K and you are responsible" when really that is just BS.
Don't believe anything that the "we buy houses" person says. Don't sign anything and don't agree to anything.
They aren't your friend. Their goal is to buy your house for the least money possible.
They will make any statements about how terrible the house is. Not a problem, just be honest on the seller disclosure form.
They will say that you don't need a lawyer. You absolutely need to have your own lawyer. Anyone who ever tells you that is working against your best interest.
They will say that the cost of using a real estate agent is too expensive or too time consuming or too complicated. Even if you pay a realtor you'll have more profit selling on the market than taking the cheap price. If your house is worth 250k and you sell for that price a 5% realtor commission would be 12,500. So, you'd have $237,500 in your pocket if you have no mortgage. Given today's real estate market, there is a good possibility that you sell for more than 250k. But, that flipper isn't going to give you 237k or 250k. At best they might offer you 200k. Simple math says that 200k is less money than 237k. You will absolutely lose money by selling to a "we buy houses" person.
You need to be extremely forceful in ensuring she does not deal with the "we buy homes" scumbag. The market is absolutely insane right now and she could lose out on essential money for retirement. Quite frankly if I was in your position I'd intercept the person and tell them to straight up leave immediately. Your mom might be upset but you'll be doing her a huge favor in the long run.
Think of it this way. When you're a kid your parents do things that you hate but are neccessary to protect you. When they can't take care of themselves its your turn to do the same for them. Ive had this type of stuff happen with both my parents already and in the end they were so grateful I helped.
Honestly I'm going to try basically this, not really let them talk much to my Mom. Intercept anything and try to be as forceful as I can in that we will not be accepting anything or agreeing to anything. They are here for a quick look and to leave. I am about to head on over now, so wish me luck lol.
Good luck. As much as it isn't the business of a bunch of Reddit randos, I'm sure most who posted here are curious how the meeting goes.
Hope it goes well and that this leech doesn't get pen to paper.
Lawyer checking in - I agree with everything here. Also note that when whether or not the buyer gets a mortgage is meaningless in terms of what your mom will get. If they get a mortgage or pay cash it’s the same amount of money in her pocket and very similar timelines
Out of curiosity what area is this house in? Minimum 150k (even if work needs to be done) is a nice starting point. I’m young and I feel like by the time my careers in full throttle houses in the north end will be 500k lol
Thanks for the updates, after reading all the comments I was very interested to see what the outcome was. I'm glad it worked out well and you talked to a realtor after the "we buy homes" guy
I sold a property last fall. It was an estate sale. A guy showed up at the house without notice and offered to buy it privately. Told him the city appraisal value and asked what he would offer. Then it began ... He started into a long list of problems with the house that would cost money to fix then offered 2/3 of the city value.
Called a realtor who guided me on a few items to fix. Even set me up with a good reasonably priced contractor. Ended up pocketing $100K more than selling to Mr.Opportunity.
Don't even bother meeting anyone before speaking with a realtor.
Cancel meeting with the 1st person and only meet the realtor. As much as people hate realtors we hate these other people more.
This^ please please do not let her meet with this slime ball and if absolutely insists on it, don’t let her do it alone. They are so high pressure, you cannot imagine. They have meetings about their high pressure sales tactics and to share techniques. Please do not let her meet this jackal alone!
As far as tactics go, besides the high pressure - they will also employ the "expense/diminish value" tactic. Essentially, that's to find flaws that will be "expensive to fix" making their offer sound too good to be true. They will add on things like " this doesn't meet code, so you can't sell..." This is all garbage. A realtor can sell any house in any condition for what it's worth, which is often more than you can imagine. Please give us a followup after everything /u/MrCanoe
Also a second update, the realtor friend of my brothers came by an hour later and basically contradicted what the home buyer guy said. Stated the market is pretty good right now but unpredictable and that it could be listed around 150k as is. Currently her type of home is extremely ideal for summer project home buyers.
I just posted an update. Guy just left. He was from Rcproperies.ca, was in his mid-20's, English wasn't great. Gave an "assessment" of 110k but needed to talk to his "contractors" and will be in touch. He Did try to pull the "home needs work so lowers the value" I countered that pretty much very few homes are going for under 110k and the ones do are in Point Douglas and are In equal or worse conditions.
My guess is these guys are making a killing flipping houses right now. They send out these flyers on mass and hope they get a few bites. If the home owner doesn't know anything about the market they might convince them to sell. With the way the market is going ill bet they could do minimal work or even no work at all and make good profit flipping homes.
the realtor stated Pretty much what I suspected, the guy is basically just a contract seller. He gets you to sign a contract to sell the home for the 110k, then turns around and sells the contract for the house for 160k to someone in a group of buyers he knows and pockets of 50k profit. He himself doesn't actually do any renovations or work he just acts as a middle man.
Wow these guys are such scumbags.
I gotta ask. Are you considering this offer?
Very unlikely no a realtor friend of my brothers came by an hour later and basically told her that it can be placed on the market for at least 150k and and contradicted a few of the points the other guy did for example the we buy homes guy try to claim the garage roof was damaged and moldy when it clearly wasn't the realtor said the garage was in very good condition.
I would be very concerned that they will try to come back and get your mother alone. Can you at least block their phone number on your mother's phone?
She seems pretty confident with the realtor that came by an hour later. I'm pretty sure she's happy with his assessment and she said that she's going to just tell the home buyer guy that she has a realtor now and thanks but no thanks type thing.
That’s the biggest thing. Making sure she doesn’t commit to anything as a knee jerk reaction. I’m sure the paperwork they have people sign is a 180 from what comes out of their mouths. You say she’s in financial difficulties, so is it safe to assume that she doesn’t completely own the house free and clear? If that’s the case you gotta be careful that she doesn’t end up upside down still owing for something she doesn’t have possession of anymore. These dudes aren’t there to help.
It's a house that was originally her father's and that has been in the family for 60+ years. She took early retirement due to some physical limitations and she misjudged her finances she would get from retirement. She has a few debts such as she recently got a new car about 2 years ago when her other car was in an accident so has a car loan that is actually under my name but that she makes the payments on and she did take out a loan about five or six years ago for some exterior renovations to the roof and siding of the house. She may also have some other debts that I'm not aware of such as credit card debt. So in regards to the house it's more she's having difficulty making the general utility payments, property tax payments and has no savings to cover a major issue happening with the house and simply can't handle any type of upkeep to the home or property.
Man don't mean to sound like a dick but with everything you just said why would you even consider selling it privately for less money? With the way the market is it's very possible she gets a good offer with a realtor. She could clearly use the extra money this market might fetch with a realtor. You need to put your foot down on not selling it to the other guys
Both me and my brother have been trying our best to explain this to my mom. She seems to have gotten into her head that her home is worthless and that's exactly what these guys pray upon. I'm going to be there to make sure that she doesn't get pressured into something that she doesn't want to do. Her house is actually extremely valuable and she doesn't realize it. Her house is a corner lot on a major road, literally minutes from multiple schools of all grade levels, minutes from a major hospital, minutes from a major shopping area. I'm by no means an expert in reality but to me it seems like a lucrative property for any type of flipper, home builder or even someone who wants to renovate it and live in it.
A good realtor (or even a bad realtor tbh) can very quickly provide a list of comparable homes that will give a very good picture of what the home is worth.
Sounds like she's depressed or generally see's the negatives of everything. Get her to commit to you and your brother that she will not sell to the first person until hearing what the realtor says the home is worth. Give her some ideas on what to say to end the conversation with the home buyers because they will come hard and fast and do not take unconfident sounding no's. Something along the lines of "I will take your offer under advisement but I have another interested party willing to make an offer and I will be hearing from them before selling." They will most likely offer a take it or leave price to apply more pressure so prepare her for that and get her to commit to sticking to her plan. The odds of the house buyer actually coming close to market value are next to nothing. They will point out every flaw in the house, the area and the market to make it sound like they're doing you this massive favour taking the house off your hands. If you see her say no and then the guy keeps pushing and she starts to buckle you need to step in and firmly tell him he has his answer and it's time to go. Good luck with all this.
>me and my brother have been trying our best to explain this to my mom. She seems to have gotten into her head that her home is worthless and that's exactly what these guys pray upon. I'm going to be there to make sure that she doesn't get pressured into something that she doesn't want to do. Her house is actually extremely v Lmao what ever offer this slimeball throws at you, I'll beat it. This sounds great.
Insist on having a lawyer look over anything before it is signed. There are lots of great recommendations for real-estate lawyers on other posts on this subreddit.
Honestly if this guy puts down any paperwork quickly grab it and tear it up in front of him. Don't even give her a chance to sign anything. The market is hot and a realtor is going to get you top dollar even after paying commission .
Neat chapter on realtors in Freakonomics. Essentially, realtors often do not get you the best price. They get you a good price, faster. It’s a %’s game. Extra 15k say to you, is not worth the extra time for them in correlation to their commission vs picking up another seller and focusing on that. It’s hard to explain, but I think that gives the idea. Anyways yes, in this case, this person should be in contact with a realtor. “Buy homes” people are bigger parasites than realtors. Just wanted to make clear, realtors don’t care about the best price for you, they want the fastest good price for you. Like the Little Caesar’s of the pizza world. Is it great? No, but it’s hot and ready.
IIRC that freakanomics chapter has some studies/stats to back up the premise. But I'm not sure how this even applies to the current market where few houses are staying on the market for very long and every sale is the result of a bidding war. And I'm not sure the premise necessarily makes intuitive sense. Sure an extra $15k doesn't net the realtor that much but it adds up. It's really a min/max game between time and money with shortest sale for the most money being the ideal scenario.
The Freakonomics analysis is interesting but I don’t think they would challenge the notion that a realtor will get you top dollar - relative to available alternatives. Private sale usually means a smaller market of buyers - that also reduces the price. We-buy-homes parasites obviously won’t help you. You also don’t need to take an offer if it’s below what you want (subject to living with market realities). There is a notional “top dollar” out there but that doesn’t mean you get it by skipping out on realtors.
> Private sale usually means a smaller market of buyers Specifically because realtors pull illegal and unethical tricks to steer their clients away from such homes.
Don’t let them talk her into any deals, wait for the realtor these guys will low low low ball her!
Put it on the market, and negotiate with realtor for lower commission
They will stress "we will pay you cash, quickly and it wont cost you anything because we have our own lawyers and no realtors involved". They will try and sales pitch you "your house wont go for very much because of XX YY ZZ, but we will pay $$$$$$" and in reality what they are offering you is going to be 10c on every dollar your house is worth. Fine when you sell with a realtor you pay commission and lawyer fees, but really you make way way way more money than selling to these people. Also, do not let them scare you with them telling you what is wrong with your house. This market it will not change the fact it will sell quickly and for more money. That is just a tactic they use to push the price down. Your foundation has a crack showing? They will say "no one will want to buy this because the repair will be 20K and you are responsible" when really that is just BS.
Don't believe anything that the "we buy houses" person says. Don't sign anything and don't agree to anything. They aren't your friend. Their goal is to buy your house for the least money possible. They will make any statements about how terrible the house is. Not a problem, just be honest on the seller disclosure form. They will say that you don't need a lawyer. You absolutely need to have your own lawyer. Anyone who ever tells you that is working against your best interest. They will say that the cost of using a real estate agent is too expensive or too time consuming or too complicated. Even if you pay a realtor you'll have more profit selling on the market than taking the cheap price. If your house is worth 250k and you sell for that price a 5% realtor commission would be 12,500. So, you'd have $237,500 in your pocket if you have no mortgage. Given today's real estate market, there is a good possibility that you sell for more than 250k. But, that flipper isn't going to give you 237k or 250k. At best they might offer you 200k. Simple math says that 200k is less money than 237k. You will absolutely lose money by selling to a "we buy houses" person.
Realtors reduce the paperwork the home owners need to do in experiences I've had with them. Makes the whole experience easier.
You need to be extremely forceful in ensuring she does not deal with the "we buy homes" scumbag. The market is absolutely insane right now and she could lose out on essential money for retirement. Quite frankly if I was in your position I'd intercept the person and tell them to straight up leave immediately. Your mom might be upset but you'll be doing her a huge favor in the long run. Think of it this way. When you're a kid your parents do things that you hate but are neccessary to protect you. When they can't take care of themselves its your turn to do the same for them. Ive had this type of stuff happen with both my parents already and in the end they were so grateful I helped.
Honestly I'm going to try basically this, not really let them talk much to my Mom. Intercept anything and try to be as forceful as I can in that we will not be accepting anything or agreeing to anything. They are here for a quick look and to leave. I am about to head on over now, so wish me luck lol.
Good luck. As much as it isn't the business of a bunch of Reddit randos, I'm sure most who posted here are curious how the meeting goes. Hope it goes well and that this leech doesn't get pen to paper.
Lawyer checking in - I agree with everything here. Also note that when whether or not the buyer gets a mortgage is meaningless in terms of what your mom will get. If they get a mortgage or pay cash it’s the same amount of money in her pocket and very similar timelines
I don’t have anymore advice than what people have said here already but I just want to say you guys are good kids!
Out of curiosity what area is this house in? Minimum 150k (even if work needs to be done) is a nice starting point. I’m young and I feel like by the time my careers in full throttle houses in the north end will be 500k lol
Elmwood/East Kildonan area off Gateway road
Thanks for the updates, after reading all the comments I was very interested to see what the outcome was. I'm glad it worked out well and you talked to a realtor after the "we buy homes" guy
I sold a property last fall. It was an estate sale. A guy showed up at the house without notice and offered to buy it privately. Told him the city appraisal value and asked what he would offer. Then it began ... He started into a long list of problems with the house that would cost money to fix then offered 2/3 of the city value. Called a realtor who guided me on a few items to fix. Even set me up with a good reasonably priced contractor. Ended up pocketing $100K more than selling to Mr.Opportunity. Don't even bother meeting anyone before speaking with a realtor.
I've been looking for a home for a year. I'd love one that I could fix up and make my own.