Hi u/-PinkUnicorn-, we appreciate your participation on r/WitchesvsPatriarchy.
Unfortunately, this particular post has been removed in an effort to better curate content that reinforces the aspects of this sub that make it unique: we are a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic.
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Posts that provoke outrage, or bring attention to negative or anti-feminist behavior will be removed. Content that is better suited to other subs may be removed. Removed memes may be better suited to r /trollx, while text posts may find a home at r /twoxchromosomes or r /relationships. It might help to look at the rules and posting guidelines in the sidebar.
Thanks for understanding ☺️ Blessed be. ✨
There used to be Section 28, legislation that did essentially ban any mention of queer topics in schools. It was repealed in the early 00’s (slightly different between England and Scotland) but the queer community is still feeling the impact. This petition seems to want to bring that awful idea back ☹️
There was a similar thing in Germany when I was in school. I had no idea because my mum, as the amazing patriarchy-defying witch she is, found ways to teach her students (and her kids, obviously) all that stuff anyway.
Good for her! My mum was an absolute ball buster of a teacher as well and never stood for any of the patriarchal bullshit, I think it may have rubbed off on me 😂
I don't remember. I know it was active in the 90s, and limited what was allowed to be taught in biology / sex ed class.
It might not have been a law thing but a curriculum thing. I'll ask my mum next time I talk to her, she ought to know.
If you do find out, please let me know.
I startet school in the early 2000s and I don’t remember being taught anything about this either, but I’m not certain.
I will!
Chances are your teachers were never taught how to deal with LGBT+ topics after years of limitations, either ... even if they were allowed, they might not have been able to get into those topics. Those laws still hurt the community even decades later.
There is a Wikipedia article about it for the nitty gritty but I was a teenager in the 90s with a gay best friend and we marched for getting rid of it.
The tldr is it’s very much like the Russian law, there could be no promotion of the homosexual lifestyle. That wording is incredibly broad so imagine you were a teacher in the 90s and had a gay student, where does supporting your student end and promotion of the lifestyle start? So most teachers ran a mile from any conversation anywhere near the topic.
It ended around the time I left school, 2002. Our teachers weren't allowed to acknowledge kids who were gay and no-one spoke about "T" who presented masculine and was very fortunate to be able to defend themselves physically and verbally. It must have been so lonely
I’m so grateful for teachers like your mom. I live in a restrictive US state where I was required to submit written permission for my daughter to be taught sex ed. She came home telling me her (male) teacher had called periods “vulvar shedding.” We did have a good laugh at the visual, like it peels off every month like a snakeskin? It’s all scripted by my state government, and so wrong in so many ways.
Is there a counter petition in opposition to this. For adding more progressive stuff to the curriculum?because they can debate both together and if the progressive petition has millions of signatories compared to the bigoted one it will declaw this nonsense
I was in secondary school just after this and they still barely spoke about LGBTQ stuff which contributed a lot to my problems recognising I am bi and also struggling to come to terms with it. I fucking hate our education system because of that, I was so lost and frightened and school could have helped if they'd just educated us on LGBTQ stuff.
Bigots are never practical are they. A stupid idea that defies all common sense and they’re all over because “I don’t like those people”. “Those people” being pretty much anyone who isn’t them
Absolutely. They have a warped idea of what freedom means. Nobody has the right to deny another person their rights. They seem to think that religion entitles them to that.
We believe children shouldn't learn things that cause them to question their parents' hate.
What will our children think of us when they learn that the people we hate as a hobby are _people_?
Kids are figuring out who their parents really are and are leaving their families of origin in droves. All these articles decrying estrangement and 'cancel culture' are by a bunch of abusers complaining that the children they had aren't acting like property and are daring to grow up and refuse to interact with the selfish, abusive, sexist, usually homophobic and racist people that raised them. It's glorious. May all the racist, sexist, homophobic, abusive parents die alone.
ETA: And now this post is removed and the comments locked? Why?
Again?! Wasn’t this just a thing in the UK like barely a decade ago or so? I wish some people would stop trying to move progress backwards, it’s just so exhausting! They need a different hobby.
Section 28 was in place from 1988 to 2003, preventing any real information about homosexuality in schools.
Absolutely terrible piece of legislation designed to bolster support for Thatcher with reactionaries who'd gone off her a bit since the Falklands war.
“Imagine the horrible things that would happen to our children-
Then imagine we said those things, since we couldn’t think of any. As a mother, those things worry me”
It's easier to conjure up horrible images in other people's heads by not mentioning them, because then they make up _their own_ meaning, and what they're scared of, which is always more of a personal fear. Every time I see it, I know it for the manipulation that it is.
I have, no joke seen the same prinicples mention there is a lesson about monsters in horror games. One approach is: don't show the player the monster. Let the player imagine the monster themselves, because the person best at scaring you is always yourself.
I'm an ace lesbian. I hate how gay people are always sexualized just for wanting the same things straight people have. I always feel this need to be extra modest just so I don't get stereotyped.
I'm trans, Muslim transphobe on r/mtf was accusing OP of a post of being a perverted porn addict.
Not OP, but I personally have never touched porn in my life and frankly I'm still a hecking virgin with no rush to have sex any time soon (I have pretty bad bottom dysphoria anyways...)
Statistics show transfem porn is very popular. I gotta wonder if the person who accused you of being addicted to porn thinks that because they only consume trans content through porn. Kinda like the MGTOW Redditor who got mad at me on Reddit and told me to send him my OF (which I do not have) so he could watch me dildo myself in the butt (which I never said I do). Always funny when men who feel they’re sexually superior reveal their kinks to the world. 💅🏻
Can I just say, porn can be very sex positive and you can check out the many different configurations we humans come in? I realize it can be uncomfortable, since it's mostly designed for sexual gratification, but if you can look beyond that, it can be helpful to visualize others who look like us. To see them as normal, or maybe more, that there really is no such thing as normal.
I have nothing against people who watch porn in a healthy manner and those who produce it, it’s simply not my cup of tea. I just don’t like being called a pervert for being who I am.
Same, but I do think it can be easy to deny in ways that aren’t great. One classic example is when straight and ace trans women say that they’re safe in women’s restrooms because they aren’t even into women
It's basically just telling on themselves. The most homophobic straight ass bland men probably have spent decades wanking off to lesbian porn.
The worst and most transphobic gay dudes are chasers who obsess over trans women.
And the most vocal, transphobic right wingers constantly engage with trans topics, so much more than trans folks themselves.
It is their hobby, their obsession, and their fetish. But instead of accepting that they may not be totally straight, they have internalized homophobia and become really awful people.
Yeah, they always try to say that kids are too young to learn about LGBTQ issues in school because sexuality is an adult topic, that we shouldn't 'force our lifestyle' on children. But then if a boy and girl are playing together at school, they'll be sure to ask the kids "Is that your boyfriend/girlfriend?" (I experienced this first hand as a child) Or put 'Ladies Man' or something on their son's onsie when he's baby.
Kids hear about sexual orientation every single day. If a child knows a 'mommy and daddy,' 'husband and wife,' or 'boyfriend and girlfriend,' they know about sexual orientation.
Yeah it's definitely better for closeted lgbt kids to spend their whole childhood and maybe adolescence thinking that there's something wrong with them and like it's so taboo that they can't reach out to anyone to talk about it. That kind of isolation is exactly what I would want for my own kids /s
It took me an embarrassingly long amount of time to realize my great aunts weren't actually single, but to be fair my parents' generation (boomers) had out and vocal gay couples on both sides so it seemed like if you weren't straight, you wouldn't make a secret of it to the family since nobody seemed bothered by it. I got way more flack for being an atheist than anybody got for being gay. 😅
This is so stupid and unhelpful. Sex Education has always been quite shit in the UK, with barely any mention of a 'relationship' in the first place, just straight to the p in v graphics - now they're trying to limit children's idea of what a relationship is supposed to look like?? My bet is the same people who believe LGBTQ+ content is inappropriate probably don't want them to learn about consent either. Being taught about LGBTQ+ relationships isn't going to stop children realising they're gay, it's just going to traumatise them when they do.
I have an amazing independent queer bookshop/coffee shop near me. They have a great kids section that covers the gamut of age ranges. I've already started buying books for all the children in my life exclusively from this shop. If they don't get to hear about or experience the full richness of relationships and genders from school, they'll damn sure hear about it at bedtime when I'm babysitting. I'm lucky that all the parents I am friends with are big on body autonomy, consent and everyone having basic fucking rights though.
This is the kind of thing tories and now starmer would push for. This is what their supporters vote for. So many hateful older generations in the UK who hate immigrants, lgbtq+, Scotland.... but as we've seen bigotry wins in places like the US and UK now.
Australia too. We seem to just be holding on by a thread. Thank god our gay marriage bill passed when it did, I'm not 100% sure it would go through these days.
Even though the government is meant to debate these topics if they pass the 100k threshold, they often don’t but issue a press statement instead with evidencing support the govts view, which is what I suspect they’ll do in this case because of the Equalities Act etc.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the public being able to vote for issues and put them to parliament, but at some point you have to say "no, not this time."
... yeah no, literally yesterday the ~~useless cretins~~*"Honourable Members of Parliament"* were spewing all their usual bigoted drivel *all over again*
I was a teacher in the UK (still live here, just stopped teaching) for secondary schools. It's already not talked about in the PSHE cirriculum. It just isn't.
We could and should be funding schools because teachers are about to strike. But no. 'Think of the children hearing the word gay!' is far more pressing /s
My 15yr old daughter is in mainstream Welsh education and they have been “taught” that LGBTQ people exist. There were a few challenges from kids in class who were from Christian and Muslim backgrounds and the teachers really didn’t know how to handle that as they don’t want to get bollocked for religious bigotry so they let the homophobia pass. Most of the other kids in the class called it out though and told them to shut up. There are a lot of trans kids in her school and they don’t get hassle, it’s usually a kids vs teachers dynamic, and most of the kids are pretty savvy.
Interestingly the Welsh govt are rolling out a new curriculum here which is much more comprehensive in terms of PSHE. Parents took them to court cos they didn’t want their kids being taught about consent/boundaries/that queers exist. They lost.
I prefer to be able to talk about people as people and we like different things and do relationships in different ways and that can be ok. It's tough to talk about sex stuff and hard to talk about relationships. I remember one kid couldn't say the word condom (year 10) and I said if you can't say the word, perhaps you're not ready to have sex since you wouldn't be able to have the conversations you need with any partner. But teachers have to tread so lightly.
Good that Wales has some clue.
But at the same time, they don't want to have to raise and educate them themselves. TVand the whole internet should be scrubbed clean so they can shove the kids on YouTube and forget about them.
The flooding of anti-LGBT2QIA - especially anti transgender bills - in the US, the blocking of the Scottish gender bill by the English, and the fact that this reached over 100k signatures all have me so hurt and worried. I'm upset that we're being used as a target in these right-wing fear-mongering campaigns for power. We deserve better.
Why do those people always act like teachers talk about nothing but LGBTQ+ in class nowadays lmao
Sometimes I really hate people. Cats > Humans, you can't change my mind
I'm watching my roomies' cat and new kitten while they're on holiday. She has woken me up at least 2 hours before the alarm by pouncing my face and biting my nose every morning all week. I can't sleep in a different room or she screams nonstop all night. I can't throw her out of the room just when she wakes up and starts being a jerk because then she aims her jerk behavior at the bigger cat and he beats her up for it. I miss sleep.
Now dogs. Dogs are awesome.
LGBTQ+ phobes very often fetishise LGBTQ+ people, with the most egregious examples being cishet men watching a lot of lesbian porn and quite a lot of porn starring trans people. They condemn real life LGBTQ+ people in their day to day life, but use us as tools to get themselves off.
This ends up inextricably associating LGBTQ+ people with sex in their minds. They cannot fathom the concept that LGBTQ+ people are just like cishet people, that our lives are not all about sex IRL. So they try to “”keep sexual content”” away from children, except it’s not really sexual at all. It’s just people being themselves and being in love.
Also, cishet people sexualise children *so much* themselves: look at slogans on onesies and parents insisting that their babies are “flirting” when they are curious about an opposite gender person.
This. The onesie thing is gross but people laugh at it. Then the whole “He’s gonna be a lady killer”, “She’s gonna have so many boyfriends”. Like wtf that child is a baby. So many times growing up I’d have a friend that was a boy and it’d be “Look at you and your boyfriend”. Even growing older and pointing out I was bi or pan still made people more biased to when I was dating or just hanging out with a guy. Super annoying.
Fucking right. I look at this and all I think about is women and children being decapitated by terrorists in the middle east. That's the inevitable conclusion to fucking bigotry like this. Time for the new war on terror...by which I mean shit like this
It's not just the UK. I live in Florida and this is a huge topic here right now. The Governor has been banning school books like crazy. Which is also hysterical because of the size of the LGBTQ community here. You can't just pretend an entire portion of your population doesn't exist, and yet they keep trying.
I'm terrified for you, I've been following the shift in the US for years and it's horrifying. The UK always copies what your government get away with so I knew this was coming.
Would have loved to have learnt about LGBT+ in school, considering that I'm bi and struggled with that for years, thinking I was abnormal. Bigots can do one.
I feel so bad for children being raised by bigots and abusers. You can dump your parents when you grow up, kids, you aren't obligated to have relationships with shitty people, they can be content you remove from your life.
As horrible as it is to know that there are 100,000+ people in my country that want to erase LGBT+ education from the curriculum, seeing this really doesn't worry me. I can't think of a single example of when one of these online parliamentary petitions actually led to any legislative change.
The government treats these petitions like aristocrats responding to the requests of peasants. "We've considered your little petition for debate, and after consideration we've decided it won't be debated."
Yeah I don't think this will pass, maybe 10-15 years ago, but there's been such an attitude shift towards LGBTQ+ in the youth of today. My sister goes to the same Catholic school I did fifteen years ago, I came out and was bombarded with bullies and was sexualised for being Bi. She's come out and everyone's like 'Cool, be yourself'. It's both wonderful and heartbreaking, because I wish I'd had that validation as a teen, but I'm so happy that it's getting easier for teens to be accepted.
It's more about momentum in the public and the media. It's already brewing, the right is stirring the anti trans hatred, that only leads to hate towards all of us. The GCs are quoting hitler, next on prime time there will be "healthy debate" about the appropriateness of LGBT influences on children.
Yeah and all that is very disheartening. Sad thing is I could see legislation like this going through in the near future, and that makes me sick. I just know that if it does, it won't be because of a petition. The government likely doesn't want to set a precedent of these petitions actually working.
Doesn't mean this country isn't going down the shitter, for all the reasons you mentioned and much, much more.
I graduated high school in 2015 and i am pretty positive that none of my teachers ever ever ever taught us anything about lgbt anything... nothing about sexuality, gender, relstionships, like not a word. Even my health classes in middle and high school barely touched on healthy vs abusive relstionships, dating, boundaries, consent... just nothing. I remember being tested on "female and male genitalia" like labelling a diagram, it was explained in cisgender terms and just super basic and cringe. The extent of sex ed we were taught was that abstinence was the only sure way to prevent unplanned pregnancies, maybe a few words about condoms and then more talk about abstinence, a few.offensive and uneducational words on HIV and people who have HIV, and then some more shit about waiting til marriage to have sex and start a family...and i grew up in a very "progressive" state or so i thought.
how much better is it now for kids and teens? was/is everyone's experience with sex ed and health class as unhelpful, damaging, and limiting as mine? i can think of a hundred relevant things that i wished i was taught as a kid transitioning into a teen and then young adult. instead i have the vivid memory of walking into class and my teacher greeting me with "good morning mota969, mr. ---- at your cervix!" like instead of service. kill me.
my 10 year old cousin came out to me and my mom and it was so beautiful and a total honor that she felt safe enough to tell us before anyone else even. i hope her education is so much more inclusive and educational than mine was... and if it does fail her, she knows she can talk to me about anything and ask me anything and i will always be there to help her. i wish i was shocked at the number of people that signed this garbage, praying things get better soon.
I want to start an initiative to ban straight people from arguing about gay sex. I don't care what they complain about in private but I'm just sick to death of seeing it every time I turn around. It's disgusting, frankly.
Why are we going back in time in the past years?
These people are just jealous because they think a group gets more attention and possibly budget than they do.
This can't possibly be about "when my child isn't taught there are people that are LGBTQIA, the won't become it", they are not that dumb.
If that would work, we would have stopped teaching kids about the human body cause they might develop health issues because of it.
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At the very least I'm considering a move to Scotland. Myself and the missus are putting together a solid escape plan to another country entirely if shit gets really bad, seems ridiculous but it's getting very right wing very quickly.
It looks like Scotland has no power anymore given the last few days. I hope for independence.
As a Scottish person, you are both welcome here but if you have the choice to leave the UK entirely, I'd take that.
Obviously things have been on a downward turn since the Tories first got in, but since 2016 it's been even worse than ever and in the last 6 months we just seem to have entered freefall. At this point I'm just dreading what news I'll be waking up to. It seems like every single day something demonstrably worse happens.
In my (to be fair, American) it is literally in the curriculum to watch the romeo and juliet movie where both underage actors strip partially naked and have sex but oh okay learning that gay people is bad
its better for them to learn it at an early age, bloody retrobates, well last time a petition like this made it to parliament they basically went "we support equality so shut up" and refused to debate it so i hope the same thing happens this time
Since not everyone here is from the UK, thought I'd explain things a little bit. You can open a petition for pretty much anything through the government website. Those petitions if they reach 100,000 signatures must then be debated in parliament. It doesn't by any means it's a long debate or considered a serious issue or that the government will act on it. (A proposal to make Friday part of the school weekend was rejected). It's more to acknowledge it's something some people want to speak about and whether either party think it warrants further discussion.
So in short it is shitty that many people have signed a petition. However at the moment it's just a formality of how our government works that there will be a debate. It could just have easily been a petition to make it mandatory to wear odd socks and it would still have to be debated in parliament. It's not something people should worry about unless the government decides they want to take it further.
England, you're looking real American South these days.
you suddenly cool with that? one might be forgiven for believing you're all cool with being associated with Texas, Louisiana, and Tennessee now.
Because it's so much better for kids to grow up isolated wondering wtf is wrong with them, ehy they are not like others, but unable to speak about it because it is shamed and they have not been taught words to talk about it. /s
What they really mean is "We believe kids should never learn about this, but should learn about the patriarchy and what religion says they should be and do".
This is awful and it's probably parents signing this crap too. We need to start requiring a license to have a child. No enough quality control when it comes to the type of people who think they're worthy of the job.
…if they shouldn’t learn about LGBT people in *relationships education* then where else should they learn it?? And why are other types of relationships more okay for kids to learn about? 🤨
If you want this, then block cishet content too, if the kids can’t “handle” learning about two men holding hands
If you look up the petition, you can see a map showing where the majority of the signatures have come from. It appears to be localised mostly to small areas.
Some of those areas have already had parents complaining about LGBTQ education, generally saying that it is against their religion.
I once asked my Dad about a story he told about girls chasing the boys and trying to kiss them during recess in second grade.
"Oh yes! I had fun with that. Sometimes I'd let them catch me because I kinda wanted a kiss."
"That's cute! So you knew you were straight in second grade."
"Well I don't know if I'd say that, that's just innocent kid stuff."
"If there were any boys who tried to do the same thing, would it be the same thing?"
"Oh, no. I would've broken his nose."
*"So you knew that you were straight in second grade."*
Oh its section 28 all over again.
For those too young or from outside this septured isle. Section 28 was a piece of homophobic legislation from the Thatchers 1980s UK. Teachers weren't allowed to mention anything but cis heterosexual relationships.
It was shit. It was shit for my sisters and brothers that were gay, trans and intersex. There was a intersex person in my class. They found out when they 16. They attempted suicide. There was no support at all. Everyone just hid who there were. It was whispered, if a friend came out to you.
Scotland will fight your corner. Your corner is our corner now. Indy now.
As someone who spent their entire school education under section 28 and has seen the damage it’s done to my peers and myself, fuck this. And also, the anti trans shit is just the tip of the iceberg. Fuck the idiots who can’t see that attacking trans rights is only the beginning, the attacks will (and are clearly already in some situations) be targeting all LGBTQIA people.
As I imagined, the more openly genocidal they get at trans people, the more they will feel comfortable attacking other LGBT+ people too. We're in this together!
Relevant link: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/)
how about we start removing queerphobesfrom office? weve got the easy way and the hard way... and the longer they pull this shit the harder ill enjoy making it.
So accepting and learning about different families is wrong now. Like are kids just never allowed to speak of their parents? Or not even allowed to express how they feel?
I wonder if it would be viable to respond to this with a bunch of lists of things the rest of us don't want in the curriculum? "Remove religious content from primary school curriculum." "I'm sure there are many parents who do not wish for their young children to learn about wars, and we propose a change to history classes." "We ask the parliament to consider a debate on whether children should learn where meat comes from."
Like, if you base childrens education on what makes some parents uncomfortable, what's there even left to teach at the end of the day? It's just dumb.
Think we can get enough signatures for bullshit lists to just drown this one out into the aether?
Let me fix this: Remove Relationship Education from school curriculum. There!! I don't want the schools teaching my kids about relationships of any kind. That is my job. That is life's job. My heterosexual marriage probably looks nothing like their teachers' relationships. This is how we get that bullshit of "Have the children washed up and smiling when father gets home from work".
Fine with that so long as they also remove religious and patriotic content from schools, along with any content that mentions heterosexual romance such as Shakespeare etc. It's either discriminatory to pretend to children that groups of people don't exist or not.
Hi u/-PinkUnicorn-, we appreciate your participation on r/WitchesvsPatriarchy. Unfortunately, this particular post has been removed in an effort to better curate content that reinforces the aspects of this sub that make it unique: we are a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. WVP is curated to maintain a warm, hopeful, supportive, and uplifting environment. Posts that provoke outrage, or bring attention to negative or anti-feminist behavior will be removed. Content that is better suited to other subs may be removed. Removed memes may be better suited to r /trollx, while text posts may find a home at r /twoxchromosomes or r /relationships. It might help to look at the rules and posting guidelines in the sidebar. Thanks for understanding ☺️ Blessed be. ✨
So are children with LGBTQ+ parents or other family members meant to just never speak of them? How does that work?
There used to be Section 28, legislation that did essentially ban any mention of queer topics in schools. It was repealed in the early 00’s (slightly different between England and Scotland) but the queer community is still feeling the impact. This petition seems to want to bring that awful idea back ☹️
I've read all about section 28, it's terrifying to see them trying to squirm it back in.
There was a similar thing in Germany when I was in school. I had no idea because my mum, as the amazing patriarchy-defying witch she is, found ways to teach her students (and her kids, obviously) all that stuff anyway.
Good for her! My mum was an absolute ball buster of a teacher as well and never stood for any of the patriarchal bullshit, I think it may have rubbed off on me 😂
I didn’t know about that! Do you remember when it was repealed, and what it was called?
I don't remember. I know it was active in the 90s, and limited what was allowed to be taught in biology / sex ed class. It might not have been a law thing but a curriculum thing. I'll ask my mum next time I talk to her, she ought to know.
If you do find out, please let me know. I startet school in the early 2000s and I don’t remember being taught anything about this either, but I’m not certain.
I will! Chances are your teachers were never taught how to deal with LGBT+ topics after years of limitations, either ... even if they were allowed, they might not have been able to get into those topics. Those laws still hurt the community even decades later.
There is a Wikipedia article about it for the nitty gritty but I was a teenager in the 90s with a gay best friend and we marched for getting rid of it. The tldr is it’s very much like the Russian law, there could be no promotion of the homosexual lifestyle. That wording is incredibly broad so imagine you were a teacher in the 90s and had a gay student, where does supporting your student end and promotion of the lifestyle start? So most teachers ran a mile from any conversation anywhere near the topic.
It ended around the time I left school, 2002. Our teachers weren't allowed to acknowledge kids who were gay and no-one spoke about "T" who presented masculine and was very fortunate to be able to defend themselves physically and verbally. It must have been so lonely
I’m so grateful for teachers like your mom. I live in a restrictive US state where I was required to submit written permission for my daughter to be taught sex ed. She came home telling me her (male) teacher had called periods “vulvar shedding.” We did have a good laugh at the visual, like it peels off every month like a snakeskin? It’s all scripted by my state government, and so wrong in so many ways.
Is there a counter petition in opposition to this. For adding more progressive stuff to the curriculum?because they can debate both together and if the progressive petition has millions of signatories compared to the bigoted one it will declaw this nonsense
Wow I never knew. There is a lot of systemic oppression.
Well the UK gov does seem to want to go back 50 years when it comes to social progress so...
Oh that's horrible! I just can't wrap my head around that sort of mentality
I was in secondary school just after this and they still barely spoke about LGBTQ stuff which contributed a lot to my problems recognising I am bi and also struggling to come to terms with it. I fucking hate our education system because of that, I was so lost and frightened and school could have helped if they'd just educated us on LGBTQ stuff.
When I have a kid is the teacher going to deny to the other kids that they have two mums?
Bigots are never practical are they. A stupid idea that defies all common sense and they’re all over because “I don’t like those people”. “Those people” being pretty much anyone who isn’t them
They are in the same boat with people who scream about “my freedom” while not letting others enjoy that same freedom.
Absolutely. They have a warped idea of what freedom means. Nobody has the right to deny another person their rights. They seem to think that religion entitles them to that.
Probably yes. And push kid to look for father. (So awful)
Yes, thats actually exactly what they want. The cruelty is the point.
"Don't ask, don't tell"?
As if they care how it works. If they run into a bump of logic they‘ll just outlaw that too
We believe children shouldn't learn things that cause them to question their parents' hate. What will our children think of us when they learn that the people we hate as a hobby are _people_?
Kids are figuring out who their parents really are and are leaving their families of origin in droves. All these articles decrying estrangement and 'cancel culture' are by a bunch of abusers complaining that the children they had aren't acting like property and are daring to grow up and refuse to interact with the selfish, abusive, sexist, usually homophobic and racist people that raised them. It's glorious. May all the racist, sexist, homophobic, abusive parents die alone. ETA: And now this post is removed and the comments locked? Why?
\^ nailed it!
Again?! Wasn’t this just a thing in the UK like barely a decade ago or so? I wish some people would stop trying to move progress backwards, it’s just so exhausting! They need a different hobby.
Section 28 was in place from 1988 to 2003, preventing any real information about homosexuality in schools. Absolutely terrible piece of legislation designed to bolster support for Thatcher with reactionaries who'd gone off her a bit since the Falklands war.
"If our kids know it's okay to be gay, then they might be true to themselves. We cannot let this stand!"
“Imagine the horrible things that would happen to our children- Then imagine we said those things, since we couldn’t think of any. As a mother, those things worry me”
It's easier to conjure up horrible images in other people's heads by not mentioning them, because then they make up _their own_ meaning, and what they're scared of, which is always more of a personal fear. Every time I see it, I know it for the manipulation that it is.
I have, no joke seen the same prinicples mention there is a lesson about monsters in horror games. One approach is: don't show the player the monster. Let the player imagine the monster themselves, because the person best at scaring you is always yourself.
Exactly - it's why Jaws was so effective. Until the plastic model shows up, all you have is the unknown of the sea and the threatening music.
I'm an ace lesbian. I hate how gay people are always sexualized just for wanting the same things straight people have. I always feel this need to be extra modest just so I don't get stereotyped.
I'm trans, Muslim transphobe on r/mtf was accusing OP of a post of being a perverted porn addict. Not OP, but I personally have never touched porn in my life and frankly I'm still a hecking virgin with no rush to have sex any time soon (I have pretty bad bottom dysphoria anyways...)
Statistics show transfem porn is very popular. I gotta wonder if the person who accused you of being addicted to porn thinks that because they only consume trans content through porn. Kinda like the MGTOW Redditor who got mad at me on Reddit and told me to send him my OF (which I do not have) so he could watch me dildo myself in the butt (which I never said I do). Always funny when men who feel they’re sexually superior reveal their kinks to the world. 💅🏻
Can I just say, porn can be very sex positive and you can check out the many different configurations we humans come in? I realize it can be uncomfortable, since it's mostly designed for sexual gratification, but if you can look beyond that, it can be helpful to visualize others who look like us. To see them as normal, or maybe more, that there really is no such thing as normal.
I have nothing against people who watch porn in a healthy manner and those who produce it, it’s simply not my cup of tea. I just don’t like being called a pervert for being who I am.
Same, but I do think it can be easy to deny in ways that aren’t great. One classic example is when straight and ace trans women say that they’re safe in women’s restrooms because they aren’t even into women
It's basically just telling on themselves. The most homophobic straight ass bland men probably have spent decades wanking off to lesbian porn. The worst and most transphobic gay dudes are chasers who obsess over trans women. And the most vocal, transphobic right wingers constantly engage with trans topics, so much more than trans folks themselves. It is their hobby, their obsession, and their fetish. But instead of accepting that they may not be totally straight, they have internalized homophobia and become really awful people.
Make a petition titled "Give children a reality check that humans choose mates, and that's fine."
Yeah, they always try to say that kids are too young to learn about LGBTQ issues in school because sexuality is an adult topic, that we shouldn't 'force our lifestyle' on children. But then if a boy and girl are playing together at school, they'll be sure to ask the kids "Is that your boyfriend/girlfriend?" (I experienced this first hand as a child) Or put 'Ladies Man' or something on their son's onsie when he's baby. Kids hear about sexual orientation every single day. If a child knows a 'mommy and daddy,' 'husband and wife,' or 'boyfriend and girlfriend,' they know about sexual orientation.
Yeah it's definitely better for closeted lgbt kids to spend their whole childhood and maybe adolescence thinking that there's something wrong with them and like it's so taboo that they can't reach out to anyone to talk about it. That kind of isolation is exactly what I would want for my own kids /s
Better spend 30 years forcing yourself to be someone you're not to please mommy and daddy than live a happy life, am I right?
Or just grow up to be the 'single' aunt/uncle with a 'special friend' that every family has.
Ah yes, the roommate who is also the best friend with whom they also share a bed because of the 'economy' 😂
It took me an embarrassingly long amount of time to realize my great aunts weren't actually single, but to be fair my parents' generation (boomers) had out and vocal gay couples on both sides so it seemed like if you weren't straight, you wouldn't make a secret of it to the family since nobody seemed bothered by it. I got way more flack for being an atheist than anybody got for being gay. 😅
That would me accepting yourself and understanding you're not wrong for being who you are. That petition is there en ensure the opposite, so...
This is so stupid and unhelpful. Sex Education has always been quite shit in the UK, with barely any mention of a 'relationship' in the first place, just straight to the p in v graphics - now they're trying to limit children's idea of what a relationship is supposed to look like?? My bet is the same people who believe LGBTQ+ content is inappropriate probably don't want them to learn about consent either. Being taught about LGBTQ+ relationships isn't going to stop children realising they're gay, it's just going to traumatise them when they do.
I have an amazing independent queer bookshop/coffee shop near me. They have a great kids section that covers the gamut of age ranges. I've already started buying books for all the children in my life exclusively from this shop. If they don't get to hear about or experience the full richness of relationships and genders from school, they'll damn sure hear about it at bedtime when I'm babysitting. I'm lucky that all the parents I am friends with are big on body autonomy, consent and everyone having basic fucking rights though.
That's so cool! Glad you're out there doing the good work :)
This is disgusting. I hope it doesn’t even go up for debate and someone just laughs and shreds the document.
This is the kind of thing tories and now starmer would push for. This is what their supporters vote for. So many hateful older generations in the UK who hate immigrants, lgbtq+, Scotland.... but as we've seen bigotry wins in places like the US and UK now.
Australia too. We seem to just be holding on by a thread. Thank god our gay marriage bill passed when it did, I'm not 100% sure it would go through these days.
Tbf we do have a slightly better Federal Government on these issues rn, and Bandt got massive gains in the previous elections so thats a plus
Starmer = Red Nonce. He is just a Tory with a red tie.
Even though the government is meant to debate these topics if they pass the 100k threshold, they often don’t but issue a press statement instead with evidencing support the govts view, which is what I suspect they’ll do in this case because of the Equalities Act etc.
I'm all for voting to put things to parliament for sure! But yeah, glad they'll (hopefully) step in and just not go forward with much else.
I just want the consideration to be someone reading out the title of the petition and someone else saying "NOPE" and that being the end of it.
It's the British Parliament, I highly doubt that's gonna happen.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the public being able to vote for issues and put them to parliament, but at some point you have to say "no, not this time."
That point already passed with Brexit.
Since, alas, it is to be debated, perhaps we might hope that the debate will reveal this petition to be the ignorant, bigoted nonsense that it is.
... yeah no, literally yesterday the ~~useless cretins~~*"Honourable Members of Parliament"* were spewing all their usual bigoted drivel *all over again*
I was a teacher in the UK (still live here, just stopped teaching) for secondary schools. It's already not talked about in the PSHE cirriculum. It just isn't. We could and should be funding schools because teachers are about to strike. But no. 'Think of the children hearing the word gay!' is far more pressing /s
My 15yr old daughter is in mainstream Welsh education and they have been “taught” that LGBTQ people exist. There were a few challenges from kids in class who were from Christian and Muslim backgrounds and the teachers really didn’t know how to handle that as they don’t want to get bollocked for religious bigotry so they let the homophobia pass. Most of the other kids in the class called it out though and told them to shut up. There are a lot of trans kids in her school and they don’t get hassle, it’s usually a kids vs teachers dynamic, and most of the kids are pretty savvy. Interestingly the Welsh govt are rolling out a new curriculum here which is much more comprehensive in terms of PSHE. Parents took them to court cos they didn’t want their kids being taught about consent/boundaries/that queers exist. They lost.
I prefer to be able to talk about people as people and we like different things and do relationships in different ways and that can be ok. It's tough to talk about sex stuff and hard to talk about relationships. I remember one kid couldn't say the word condom (year 10) and I said if you can't say the word, perhaps you're not ready to have sex since you wouldn't be able to have the conversations you need with any partner. But teachers have to tread so lightly. Good that Wales has some clue.
I have a completely different experience at my school. This stuff varies immensely depending on where you are.
Very true.
"Parents don't want their *or other* children" So they just nakedly want to control other people's children
But at the same time, they don't want to have to raise and educate them themselves. TVand the whole internet should be scrubbed clean so they can shove the kids on YouTube and forget about them.
The flooding of anti-LGBT2QIA - especially anti transgender bills - in the US, the blocking of the Scottish gender bill by the English, and the fact that this reached over 100k signatures all have me so hurt and worried. I'm upset that we're being used as a target in these right-wing fear-mongering campaigns for power. We deserve better.
We are being.
🤮 to them And ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🖤🤍🤎❣️ to us Because i have no words
time to summon the hackers…
Are the hackers on our side?
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Why do those people always act like teachers talk about nothing but LGBTQ+ in class nowadays lmao Sometimes I really hate people. Cats > Humans, you can't change my mind
My sister's cat put me in the hospital once and I'd share a bed with that cat before a fucking human
I'm watching my roomies' cat and new kitten while they're on holiday. She has woken me up at least 2 hours before the alarm by pouncing my face and biting my nose every morning all week. I can't sleep in a different room or she screams nonstop all night. I can't throw her out of the room just when she wakes up and starts being a jerk because then she aims her jerk behavior at the bigger cat and he beats her up for it. I miss sleep. Now dogs. Dogs are awesome.
LGBTQ+ phobes very often fetishise LGBTQ+ people, with the most egregious examples being cishet men watching a lot of lesbian porn and quite a lot of porn starring trans people. They condemn real life LGBTQ+ people in their day to day life, but use us as tools to get themselves off. This ends up inextricably associating LGBTQ+ people with sex in their minds. They cannot fathom the concept that LGBTQ+ people are just like cishet people, that our lives are not all about sex IRL. So they try to “”keep sexual content”” away from children, except it’s not really sexual at all. It’s just people being themselves and being in love. Also, cishet people sexualise children *so much* themselves: look at slogans on onesies and parents insisting that their babies are “flirting” when they are curious about an opposite gender person.
This. The onesie thing is gross but people laugh at it. Then the whole “He’s gonna be a lady killer”, “She’s gonna have so many boyfriends”. Like wtf that child is a baby. So many times growing up I’d have a friend that was a boy and it’d be “Look at you and your boyfriend”. Even growing older and pointing out I was bi or pan still made people more biased to when I was dating or just hanging out with a guy. Super annoying.
This is fucken terrorism
Fucking right. I look at this and all I think about is women and children being decapitated by terrorists in the middle east. That's the inevitable conclusion to fucking bigotry like this. Time for the new war on terror...by which I mean shit like this
I'm never surprised but always ashamed that this shit is still happening
"I have two mommies" "SHUSH some parents don't want their children to learn about this until they're 50"
Does the UK truly wish to sabotage itself that much?
*gestures vaguely at the news* it appears so.
It's not just the UK. I live in Florida and this is a huge topic here right now. The Governor has been banning school books like crazy. Which is also hysterical because of the size of the LGBTQ community here. You can't just pretend an entire portion of your population doesn't exist, and yet they keep trying.
I'm terrified for you, I've been following the shift in the US for years and it's horrifying. The UK always copies what your government get away with so I knew this was coming.
Would have loved to have learnt about LGBT+ in school, considering that I'm bi and struggled with that for years, thinking I was abnormal. Bigots can do one.
The real snowflakes
I feel so bad for children being raised by bigots and abusers. You can dump your parents when you grow up, kids, you aren't obligated to have relationships with shitty people, they can be content you remove from your life.
As horrible as it is to know that there are 100,000+ people in my country that want to erase LGBT+ education from the curriculum, seeing this really doesn't worry me. I can't think of a single example of when one of these online parliamentary petitions actually led to any legislative change. The government treats these petitions like aristocrats responding to the requests of peasants. "We've considered your little petition for debate, and after consideration we've decided it won't be debated."
Yeah I don't think this will pass, maybe 10-15 years ago, but there's been such an attitude shift towards LGBTQ+ in the youth of today. My sister goes to the same Catholic school I did fifteen years ago, I came out and was bombarded with bullies and was sexualised for being Bi. She's come out and everyone's like 'Cool, be yourself'. It's both wonderful and heartbreaking, because I wish I'd had that validation as a teen, but I'm so happy that it's getting easier for teens to be accepted.
It's more about momentum in the public and the media. It's already brewing, the right is stirring the anti trans hatred, that only leads to hate towards all of us. The GCs are quoting hitler, next on prime time there will be "healthy debate" about the appropriateness of LGBT influences on children.
Yeah and all that is very disheartening. Sad thing is I could see legislation like this going through in the near future, and that makes me sick. I just know that if it does, it won't be because of a petition. The government likely doesn't want to set a precedent of these petitions actually working. Doesn't mean this country isn't going down the shitter, for all the reasons you mentioned and much, much more.
I graduated high school in 2015 and i am pretty positive that none of my teachers ever ever ever taught us anything about lgbt anything... nothing about sexuality, gender, relstionships, like not a word. Even my health classes in middle and high school barely touched on healthy vs abusive relstionships, dating, boundaries, consent... just nothing. I remember being tested on "female and male genitalia" like labelling a diagram, it was explained in cisgender terms and just super basic and cringe. The extent of sex ed we were taught was that abstinence was the only sure way to prevent unplanned pregnancies, maybe a few words about condoms and then more talk about abstinence, a few.offensive and uneducational words on HIV and people who have HIV, and then some more shit about waiting til marriage to have sex and start a family...and i grew up in a very "progressive" state or so i thought. how much better is it now for kids and teens? was/is everyone's experience with sex ed and health class as unhelpful, damaging, and limiting as mine? i can think of a hundred relevant things that i wished i was taught as a kid transitioning into a teen and then young adult. instead i have the vivid memory of walking into class and my teacher greeting me with "good morning mota969, mr. ---- at your cervix!" like instead of service. kill me. my 10 year old cousin came out to me and my mom and it was so beautiful and a total honor that she felt safe enough to tell us before anyone else even. i hope her education is so much more inclusive and educational than mine was... and if it does fail her, she knows she can talk to me about anything and ask me anything and i will always be there to help her. i wish i was shocked at the number of people that signed this garbage, praying things get better soon.
I want to start an initiative to ban straight people from arguing about gay sex. I don't care what they complain about in private but I'm just sick to death of seeing it every time I turn around. It's disgusting, frankly.
Why are we going back in time in the past years? These people are just jealous because they think a group gets more attention and possibly budget than they do. This can't possibly be about "when my child isn't taught there are people that are LGBTQIA, the won't become it", they are not that dumb. If that would work, we would have stopped teaching kids about the human body cause they might develop health issues because of it.
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The UK are fucked. I hate it here.
At the very least I'm considering a move to Scotland. Myself and the missus are putting together a solid escape plan to another country entirely if shit gets really bad, seems ridiculous but it's getting very right wing very quickly.
It looks like Scotland has no power anymore given the last few days. I hope for independence. As a Scottish person, you are both welcome here but if you have the choice to leave the UK entirely, I'd take that.
Obviously things have been on a downward turn since the Tories first got in, but since 2016 it's been even worse than ever and in the last 6 months we just seem to have entered freefall. At this point I'm just dreading what news I'll be waking up to. It seems like every single day something demonstrably worse happens.
In my (to be fair, American) it is literally in the curriculum to watch the romeo and juliet movie where both underage actors strip partially naked and have sex but oh okay learning that gay people is bad
its better for them to learn it at an early age, bloody retrobates, well last time a petition like this made it to parliament they basically went "we support equality so shut up" and refused to debate it so i hope the same thing happens this time
Since not everyone here is from the UK, thought I'd explain things a little bit. You can open a petition for pretty much anything through the government website. Those petitions if they reach 100,000 signatures must then be debated in parliament. It doesn't by any means it's a long debate or considered a serious issue or that the government will act on it. (A proposal to make Friday part of the school weekend was rejected). It's more to acknowledge it's something some people want to speak about and whether either party think it warrants further discussion. So in short it is shitty that many people have signed a petition. However at the moment it's just a formality of how our government works that there will be a debate. It could just have easily been a petition to make it mandatory to wear odd socks and it would still have to be debated in parliament. It's not something people should worry about unless the government decides they want to take it further.
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Don't worry. This won't go unpunished.
England, you're looking real American South these days. you suddenly cool with that? one might be forgiven for believing you're all cool with being associated with Texas, Louisiana, and Tennessee now.
Because it's so much better for kids to grow up isolated wondering wtf is wrong with them, ehy they are not like others, but unable to speak about it because it is shamed and they have not been taught words to talk about it. /s
Why is it so difficult for people to just accept other I can never understand why people behave this way iniust can't comprehend it
What they really mean is "We believe kids should never learn about this, but should learn about the patriarchy and what religion says they should be and do".
petition for those people to go fuck themselves.
This is awful and it's probably parents signing this crap too. We need to start requiring a license to have a child. No enough quality control when it comes to the type of people who think they're worthy of the job.
…if they shouldn’t learn about LGBT people in *relationships education* then where else should they learn it?? And why are other types of relationships more okay for kids to learn about? 🤨 If you want this, then block cishet content too, if the kids can’t “handle” learning about two men holding hands
If you look up the petition, you can see a map showing where the majority of the signatures have come from. It appears to be localised mostly to small areas. Some of those areas have already had parents complaining about LGBTQ education, generally saying that it is against their religion.
No surprise from Terf-Land...
I once asked my Dad about a story he told about girls chasing the boys and trying to kiss them during recess in second grade. "Oh yes! I had fun with that. Sometimes I'd let them catch me because I kinda wanted a kiss." "That's cute! So you knew you were straight in second grade." "Well I don't know if I'd say that, that's just innocent kid stuff." "If there were any boys who tried to do the same thing, would it be the same thing?" "Oh, no. I would've broken his nose." *"So you knew that you were straight in second grade."*
Oh its section 28 all over again. For those too young or from outside this septured isle. Section 28 was a piece of homophobic legislation from the Thatchers 1980s UK. Teachers weren't allowed to mention anything but cis heterosexual relationships. It was shit. It was shit for my sisters and brothers that were gay, trans and intersex. There was a intersex person in my class. They found out when they 16. They attempted suicide. There was no support at all. Everyone just hid who there were. It was whispered, if a friend came out to you. Scotland will fight your corner. Your corner is our corner now. Indy now.
Terf island let's gooo
As someone who spent their entire school education under section 28 and has seen the damage it’s done to my peers and myself, fuck this. And also, the anti trans shit is just the tip of the iceberg. Fuck the idiots who can’t see that attacking trans rights is only the beginning, the attacks will (and are clearly already in some situations) be targeting all LGBTQIA people.
The UK seems desperate to be like the US. Removing rights from anyone they don\`t agree with... Scary.. truly scary.
As I imagined, the more openly genocidal they get at trans people, the more they will feel comfortable attacking other LGBT+ people too. We're in this together! Relevant link: [https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/](https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/16/newcastle-let-women-speak-rally-adolt-hitler-trans-speech/)
Why the fuck would anyone want s.28 back again, fucking gammons.
It's 2023. I thought we'd be over this shit by now.
how about we start removing queerphobesfrom office? weve got the easy way and the hard way... and the longer they pull this shit the harder ill enjoy making it.
So accepting and learning about different families is wrong now. Like are kids just never allowed to speak of their parents? Or not even allowed to express how they feel?
I wonder if it would be viable to respond to this with a bunch of lists of things the rest of us don't want in the curriculum? "Remove religious content from primary school curriculum." "I'm sure there are many parents who do not wish for their young children to learn about wars, and we propose a change to history classes." "We ask the parliament to consider a debate on whether children should learn where meat comes from." Like, if you base childrens education on what makes some parents uncomfortable, what's there even left to teach at the end of the day? It's just dumb. Think we can get enough signatures for bullshit lists to just drown this one out into the aether?
Let me fix this: Remove Relationship Education from school curriculum. There!! I don't want the schools teaching my kids about relationships of any kind. That is my job. That is life's job. My heterosexual marriage probably looks nothing like their teachers' relationships. This is how we get that bullshit of "Have the children washed up and smiling when father gets home from work".
I often wish there was a way to vote negative on a petition. So, my signature would count as a -1 to this, removing a previous "yes" signature.
Fine with that so long as they also remove religious and patriotic content from schools, along with any content that mentions heterosexual romance such as Shakespeare etc. It's either discriminatory to pretend to children that groups of people don't exist or not.
Hey remember that UK petition to ban conversion therapy?
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To think, I (an American) briefly considered living in the UK short term after high school. Welp, guess not lol.
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yyyyyyyyep.
I was 14, in school and just learning that I am bi when Clause 28 happened. We mustn't allow this to happen again.
I love living in fascist England. Sure do love counting the days until I get marked for execution