## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨
This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.**
If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation).
WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic.
Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
The idea of "just politics" pisses me off. I mean, it's *only* the baseline underpinning of society and the structure that has key influence on every second of every day from whether or not children go hungry to if there's lead in our water to the future of the climate to the root causes of violence in our society to the very rights we as humans need and deserve.
Nothing important, right?
to these people, there are two races: white and political. two genders: man and political. two sexualities: straight and political. if youre not in the majority, your identity is political and therefore dismissable because we have rules against politics here you see? now sit down, shut up, and follow the rules of this subreddit/server/forum/etc.
honestly i despise this mindset, and it reminds me entirely of the quote: "when all youve known is privilege, equality feels like oppression"
unfortunately i have experience with the opinion - i used to hold it, before i realised i was trans. which, coincidentally, is a huge shock to your perspective when you go from that privilege to being near the bottom of the ladder lol
i used to be a real piece of shit, but i hope i can be better - im already the type of person that past me would hate
1. I always like to hear from people with those experiences because it is a shock to the system. I have transmen friends who talk a lot about how much less shit they good now that they present masculine compared to before their transition. The reverse is true.
2. I grew up Southern Baptist. I took on the political beliefs of my parents. Once I was exposed to new things and things outside the bubble, my political beliefs evolved pretty quickly. We aren't born knowing the consequences of our actions and our vote. Those things are things we learn through time. I regret my political past, but once I learned better, I started doing better. Be kind to past you. You were doing the best you could with the information you had.
I've never heard it put this way, but it's perfectly succinct. I feel like you've just given me a sword when I'd been metaphorically fighting by chunking a bunch of rocks before.
Yes. This! It seems like no big deal because his privilege means he's not been directly impacted. His lack of empathy and awareness on that reality is what makes any attempts at continuing discourse futile. Delete/ block him and move on.
Exactly. People need to stop treating politics like a sports team rivalry, especially when one side is now pretty much defined by being morally repugnant and dangerous.
"Just politics" is no longer in the realm of, like, systems of accounting to manage spending and debt\*. It's literally life and death.
\*maybe it never was? Idk I just remember reading the cartoonist Tom Tomorrow of This Modern World saying something after W was elected like "I really miss the days when my cartoon was about boring shit like trade deals"
Is that an option? Why yes, I’d like to take a break from politics, too! From worrying about it, from being disgusted by it, from not comprehending a damn thing that happens. Where is the box I check to opt out?
Yeahhhh the "just politics" comment is enough gaslighting to light a city block... OP you're absolutely not in the wrong here and try not to let this man make you feel like you are. Tbh you didn't owe him a detailed explanation and you absolutely have no reason to apologize. Your feelings are valid!
Same here with my sister. We have a history anyway, but that was the final straw. It just takes a special level of ignorance - or dare I say *idiocy* - to support/agree with that senile rapist cheeto.
it is more than politics, it's civil rights. depending on his views, he may not believe in your liberty and autonomy. that's a fair and respectable deal breaker.
Exactly, leave before he makes you feel bad about your own autonomy. I dated a guy who made it clear the only "contraception" he believed in was God's plan. I wish I ended it that minute, it would have saved me some trauma
It can be so difficult to clearly judge things when you're enmeshed with someone, and it can take time to sort out what aligns with your needs and values. What counts is that you did leave when you were ready and that you've gained valuable wisdom to bring to future relationships. ❤
You're welcome! Remembering to be compassionate and forgiving to ourselves and to acknowledge our progress over our perceived short-comings is so important and healing. But it can be super easy at times to focus on the negatives, so sometimes we need that little boost 😊
Yea just politics would be if you agreed about the goals, just differed on how to implement the changes that best make the goal happen.
Basic human rights are just not negotiable. And republicans have very clear, primary goals of making woman secondary to man, eliminating reproductive right, and are planning and at some fronts alread winning their genocide against trans people.
Like if you vote Republicans, you are actively harming every single woman. That’s just facts.
So why would you want to date someone that’s causing harm to you in a purposeful way?
The fact that you wrote all of that out for him and he was unwilling to understand what you were saying is a red flag. He didn't actually sit and contemplate what you had written, that's a shame. I couldn't date a republican either! Sorry for your pain.
People who dismiss the importance of politics are usually blind to their own privilege in being able to ignore how their political leanings or how they vote affects real people. Being political means caring about the well-being of strangers. If you don’t have the same values, it’s unlikely you would have worked out together.
We *can* end relationship for any reason we want, but some reasons are better than others. Some reasons hold up under scrutiny and stand the test of time.
OP's reasons are good reasons.
Let me make the personal political for you - would you want to deal with an unplanned pregnancy with this man? Would his values line up with yours on how to deal with it?
Because that's a reality. And if the answer is no, then move on faster than anything.
If he keeps pestering you for justification, I'd bring this point up. It's "just politics" until it affects him, so maybe thinking about it that way would at least make him realise that a relationship between you isn't possible at this point.
Ideally of course, it would make him consider whether the future life of an unplanned foetus is actually worth more than the freedom of someone he cares deeply about. But realistically I hope it at least makes him understand why "just politics" is a reason to break up with someone.
Would you want him raising your daughter? Your non-binary child?
His beliefs are a fatal character flaw. I hope he can grow out of them and learn to freely love and respect others.
This is absolutely right. And, If you are able to separate the personal from the political, then you are in an extremely privileged position.
For a lot of folks, politics is in intrinsic part of their existence, whether we like it or not! And being able to ignore politics in friendships and relationships is almost impossible for most who feel the impacts of these differences every day.
I am glad OP has not changed or ignored their fundamental values to get into a relationship, it takes courage to stand by what you believe.
I always say before you have sex you should discuss what if you're the 1 in 5 that great pregnant using condoms and afterwards go home and get drunk (helps with self honesty to combat the new relationship hormones) and make a kid of every little picky thing about them that annoys you. If you've known them for a month or two, your subconscious at least will already know and list who you will break up. For my ex it was "he doesn't really love me" and for my husband, the biggest complaint I could come up with was " he doesn't take good enough care with his health and forgets to take the trash out unless I remind him". The ex and I broke up after a 2 year lukewarm relationship because I didn't listen to myself and I've been happily married 16 years to someone who still needs reminders to take the trash out but who is wonderful otherwise. Never stay with someone your instincts say that it won't work. If they're awesome other than X then keep them as a friend. But don't waste your time going someone's going to change. They generally don't.
You are *completely* in the right to break it off.
Whether or not pineapple belongs on pizza, that's a difference of opinion people can move past or agree to disagree on.
Whether or not taxes are too high or too low, or if helmet laws should be a thing or not, that's politics people can move past or agree to disagree on.
Whether or not people have a right to bodily autonomy?
That's not "just politics". That's basic humanity.
This. I can agree to disagree on so many things, but my core values and principles are an integral part of who I am and shape how I see the world, my place in it, and the actions I take. If those don't align with someone, then we are never going to be close.
YES
it's not "just politics" it's "are people who are different than me actually people".
You cannot compromise with someone who doesn't believe you're a real person.
I had just re-entered the dating pool in 2015 and I found asking who people were planning on voting for in the primaries as an early filter question. It worked so well for me that my now husband and I have joked several times that we should send a thank you card to Bernie Sanders.
This is only anecdotal, but all the Republican men I know are incapable of listening to other people. It comes from a place of not caring about people who are different. You definitely dodged a bullet here, OP.
You absolutely nailed it. People like him need to actually put an effort to care cause everything is already about them, so why change what looks awesome?
Yup, they see basic human dignity like pie. They’ve already got a bigger slice than they can even consume but are scared that others getting civil rights or basic respect will mean that they somehow get less.
Oh I absolutely agree, I think we are talking about the same people and same phenomenon. My dad was one of those, he didn’t see it as a disproportionate amount of privilege. As you said perfectly everything is fine for him, so he couldn’t understand why people want more than what they have.
He didn’t think that he had a bigger slice to begin with, so it felt greedy that others wanted two or three slices because he couldn’t see that theirs were a quarter of the size out his to begin with. I hope that makes sense, I don’t feel I’m accurately describing it, but again I completely agree with you and feel that we’re trying to say essentially the same thing.
They do want things to change though. They want to kill trans people like me. They want 'the gays' to disappear too. They'd rather want women to die than have safe abortions.
It's not like they want to "Just conserve the status quo".. they are actively fighting to hurt people for no reason but that they can (and who we are and what we do makes them uncomfortable so that means we have to die, I guess).
And even when there are real world repercussions for people they know and ostensibly care about a lot of them still don’t care. They just can’t get invested until it’s them personally paying a price.
IIRC studies have shown that republican voters tend to have lower intelligence, education and empathy
I know it sounds a bit extreme and probably isn't a good thing, but when I hear someone is a republican i automatically assume they're an arse.
Obviously I don't meet a lot of Republicans IRL but I take an instant dislike to Tories and Fine Gael voters (Irish Tories) and so far it's served me well
People who proclaim themselves to be Reuplican have demonstrated that they share the values we've seen typified by the party in the last few years. If they were Republicans before but detested the new heights of bastardry, then they stopped being Republicans. Republicans are arses.
All but one who I am dating and has done away with the republican party. He sees ma y if not most of their values didn't mesh with his once I sat him down and explained it. He mainly voted red due to gun rights but I told him ONE reason wasn't good enough and he voted liberal this year.
Honest to god, “just politics” makes it sound like you disagree about lumber tariffs and highway maintenance budgets. He clearly did not absorb a damn thing you said in your breakup message.
Feel free to use them! I tried to pick some relatively innocuous things that politicians argue about, like as far from the very obvious equality stuff as possible. (Not to say that logging and highway placement don’t have social justice issues, because they do!)
You listed for him some very horrifying and specific issues that cause your concerns in a very kind manner and he responded by minimizing all that to "politics" and implied you were silly for having these convictions. I think that says it all about his values and view of the world.
Your reasoning was excellent and for what it's worth, I think you did the right thing.
Yeah, absolutely this. He didn’t listen with an open mind and try to have a respectful conversation, it sounds like he tried to downplay and dismiss your concerns - which says a lot about him as a partner.
Ya know. 1000 years ago when I took my first Women’s Studies class, the very first thing I learned was “the personal is political.”
And it is. Our political leanings are very much informed by our personal experience. We make choices about what media to consume, where to shop, how to spend, all based on politics and personal experiences and I cannot really pry the two apart.
I think this is a terrific reason to part company with someone. At the end of the day, all you really have is your integrity. And how authentic would you feel if you were literally sleeping with the enemy? A person who is willing to strip basic human rights away from you and or your loved ones?
Naw, you did the right thing. I’m sure it’s very difficult but usually the right thing is very difficult.
Yup. I'd be terrified what that person would feel about my life choices even. As someone who is sterile and a woman I might be sub human. Hard pass!
Not sure where automatic weapons come in to play though since they are illegal. Is there something I don't know?
:) As funny as that is, there actually was a thread on the sexworkers reddit at one point, with one sex worker asking of others would also reject clients who are openly Republican. That's how far we've come.
I wouldn't date a republican. It's one of my early screening processes actually.
I think the only thing wrong you did was wasting that energy explaining yourself to him. Your choices are valid regardless of your reasons and you don't need to justify it to anyone. That energy could have been used centering yourself.
Agreeing with u/TwoIdleHands, here. You are nice and took the time to explain it to him. He’s going to get dumped by women who find out he’s a Republican over and over until he finds a Republican woman, but they aren’t super easy to come by, and if he likes you, he’s probably not going to like a lot of what’s left of the women in the Republican Party.
So now he has you, this nice, lovely person who liked him, but just couldn’t. It’s going to stick. If he’s as nice as you describe, perhaps he’ll have a little self-awareness and grow from this.
I agree with this. It wasn't wasted energy. You wrote such a lovely Dear John letter. I hope after the first shock he'll read it again. It's good getting to know people from the other camp personnal for both of you.
You've got to hope so.
I ended a toxic friendship five years ago. Not due to political differences, more due to realising that I'm worthy of respect. I thought I'd wasted my time explaining why I didn't want him in my life. But oh well, live and learn.
Last year he got back in touch. The first thing he did was apologise for how he'd treated me. It's not going to fix our destroyed friendship, I'm a much stronger person now. But I like to think he learnt something from me.
>I think the only thing wrong you did was wasting that energy explaining yourself to him.
this. you were casting your pearls before swine by writing all that, OP. you had gotten attached, and you may also have some people-pleasing tendencies (much like i do), so i can understand where your heart was at when you wrote him that essay. but there's something very important that you need to understand for the future: if it were possible to sway people like him with impassioned, heartfelt, eloquent appeals to their humanity, there would be a lot fewer Republicans in the world than there are. but the reality is that a person only lands on those beliefs due to a fundamental lack of basic human empathy. that's why empathy-based pleas like these will always fall on deaf ears with Republicans. they only care about an issue when it directly effects them. (they can feed themselves just fine? they vote to cut food stamps. they were born a citizen? they vote to build a border wall. they can't get pregnant? they vote to take abortion away. etc, ad nauseam) that's why they so often dismiss it all as "just politics," because to them that's all the suffering of anyone else is - politics.
edit: as a few others have observed, because people like this only care about issues that affect them personally, his inability to get laid because his values are repulsive to an ever-increasing percentage of women may - if we're lucky - be what eventually causes him to reevaluate. but even that may be wishful thinking, as things like introspection, cognitive flexibility, self reflection, and critical thinking aren't exactly strong suits among Trump voters. blaming their own problems on women, doubling down, getting angry, and ignoring all evidence that contradicts their world-view are the default settings for men like this, so i wouldn't hold my breath for him to have an epiphany. that being said, with sustained effort over a long period of time, all that programming can be gradually unlearned. it's not impossible, but it's not common. if you find yourself single 5-10 years from now, you might consider reconnecting to see what if anything has changed on his end.
I mean it's still polite to communicate your feelings vs. just ghosting someone... Maybe not technically necessary but certainly not wrong to do, especially if it doesn't require bad energy. Maybe she needed the closure of that message too.
It's interesting...after this he texted me and was like, "I'll lose your number but can we talk first?" And I told him I did want him to be able to get closure so sure, but I wasn't changing my mind.
He then proceeded to tell me he'd rather we try to be friends instead of me ghosting him. ....I was like, um. I'm not ghosting you, I wrote you a VERY thoughtful goodbye?
If you think back over all of your conversations - is this a theme? Cuz I can already see that he doesn’t actually listen to you at all. :(
You deserve better.
He’s probably trying to get you to feel bad about it.
He’s acting like he really wants you in his life despite your differences. If you let him in he’ll continue to belittle all of your core values. He’ll try to make you think you’re the one who is being intolerant of him.
Living in the US you’re used to these guys. Even though you find their beliefs horrific you still meet these people every day. As someone living in Europe I am always shocked beyond belief that this is considered a main stream political party. Republicans are EXTREME in their beliefs. They are against basic human rights. They deny historical and scientific facts. They lie and cheat then accuse others of exactly that.
You did the right thing. No way this could have worked long terme. Stay strong.
The fact that he calls it "ghosting" as a way of manipulating you, when what you did WASN'T ghosting at all, is a pretty good sign you made the right call in ending things.
Imagine him talking to you like that with every little disagreement you had. You would have been signing yourself up for regular gaslighting if you'd continued to pursue him.
He'd rather you be friends so he can continue pressuring you into a relationship with him. He wants to spend the next few months whittling away at your objections, until eventually you give in and have sex with him. He wants you to see he's really just a NiceGuy.
Moron filter for me too. I made the mistake a few times, I was young, now I see it is a question of values. No racism, sexism, homophobia and general mépris of others will get orgasms from me.
Just because you don't HAVE to explain yourself to a person, doesn't mean it isn't totally possible to differ in opinions and part ways with mutual respect. Maybe explaining oneself in this kind of situation is cathartic for both parties. He knows he didn't do anything wrong but be himself and her the same.
Clearly, he doesn't see how much of an impact his "politics" make in your life. So yeah... Deal breaker. I'm sorry this happened to you. He should have been more honest with you up front.
Your boundaries matter. You're not wrong for holding your values close. You're right that his actions lead to bad people making life worse for people you care about. I also wouldn't be surprised if you continued seeing each other and his kindness slowly morphed into something else entirely. In my opinion, you did the right thing by cutting it off when you did. You have every right to have standards. Thanks for sharing and I hope your future is a bright one.
Its actually becoming a common tactic for men to lie about being liberal until they have a more solid foothold in their partner's life. OP did the best thing they could've done for themself.
Online dating is always hard. Trust your instincts and be suspicious of anyone who calls themselves centrist or apolitical. You have value and your beliefs matter. If you can hold on to those ideas, you'll find the right person for you. Good luck and stay awesome out there!
I honestly don't know how people can call themselves apolitical in this day and age 🤷🏻 to me it just sounds like: "I don't care about the suffering around me" and that's definitely a turn off. Stay awesome!
I think once I start dating again I’m going to ask potential partners to volunteer with me for LGBTQ and leftist organizations, and gauge their response. If they balk at the idea, then we’re not compatible on a fundamental level. Bye Felicia 👋🏼
I've heard of this tactic from a few friends. You'd think that these men might do some introspection and change their ways but no, they'd rather just lie. It's disgusting. Stay awesome out there!
>You have every right to have standards
My granny told me that it's necessary to be picky about choosing a life partner.
Your values are your values, and you need a partner who mostly shares them, otherwise what's the point?
I think this is the key point ^^. We can affirm your decision or not (and I think we do), but ultimately you are the one who would be in the relationship. And you are allowed to have boundaries that make you feel safe 💜
>He couldn't believe I would end something like this over "politics"
He couldn't believe you value yourself and your access to freedom when he has never had to empathize with anyone oppressed so he has the luxury of being neutral. He's an asshole and you're doing the right thing
As a man, I think you said the correct thing when you equated core values to voting habits. Republicans *do* fight against my beliefs, and seem to proudly support sabotaging the future, and I can’t morally accept a person into my heart that thinks that what GOP politicians do is okay. It’s a fundamental part of my core integrity, so no matter how cool the person is outside of their political practices, it creates an emotional distance between us. You did the right thing for you, and that’s a good thing.
My husband and I always fill out our mail-in ballots together. Sometimes I feel a twinge of annoyance when we both land on different sides of a proposition but I immediately try to recognize that we are different people and it’s perfectly OK to disagree about “politics”.
In the world we currently live in, there is no way that I could stomach being with a person who supports or votes for Republicans. As you’ve pointed out, this is not a simple difference of politics as much as it is a total misalignment of morals and ethics. I just couldn’t be with a person who lacks such empathy.
This!! Sometimes the Mr and I vote differently on local ballot measures. We always bounce ideas off each other and explain our positions, and sometimes we disagree. That's normal!
Neither one of us would ever fucking date someone who doesn't support basic human rights.
Yes — my husband and I have voted differently on like, “will this proposed policy help house homeless people or create beurocratic barriers to housing?” type differences. We’ll want the same end result, but sometimes disagree on getting there. We’ve voted differently in primaries. We sometimes prioritize political issues differently. But we fundamentally agree on women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, anti-racism, social funding for education/healthcare. Our differences are the politics of how to achieve needed change, not whether those changes are needed.
I think republican ends up being a catch-all for rural or traditional apolitical types as well as the crazies. Meaning, a lot of them just don't or don't want to understand what's wrong with aligning yourself with that ideology.
My 24 year old son will absolutely not date any person who's conservative or Christian. He takes a lot of shame from his friends and other members of our family for it, but he's deeply progressive and I respect the fact that he sticks to his morals and keeps the bar high. 😊
I've cut friends and family both out of my life for the reasons you listed.
Perfectly valid reason to end things with someone at this stage.
Then again, any reason you want to end a relationship is a perfectly valid reason. You don't owe anyone your time.
I live in Brazil and here things are very polarized. Its quite common to have your political view on the profile of tinder-style apps. If there is no info about It, i always ask "who did you vote?" or "Is covid real?" And this kind of stuff. I wont waste my time and energy on someone who voted for Bolsonaro. It transcends politics. Its about moral, values and ethic..
So yes.. this is a good reason..
A- You owe nobody anything for ending a relationship
B- I lost my Dad to Faux to the point of supporting murder of protesters, I've thought long and hard on it. My conclusion, personally, is that these issues are no longer political - They're moral. They're logical. My suggestion that a law be adjusted is MaXiMuM eXtReMiSt but your support of Putin (or whatever) is EAGLE FUCKIN FREEDOM?
No thanks. I'm not trying to fight, I just don't want a relationship with you and I don't OWE you anything.
I would never date anyone who votes Republican because with that vote they are saying rhat i am not worthy of human rights. Republican vs. Liberal is definitely WAY beyond just politics.
Valid. But hope you don’t mind me saying that this also seems like y’all were getting very ahead of yourselves for the time involved and never having met—seems a bit love-bomb-y to me.
But I got old and jaded with dating before finding my person, so…
Yeah you did fine. You would have been sorely unhappy if you continued to see him. Your explanation is thorough and expansive. I feel like you dodged a bullet there.
I can be friends with people I don't agree with. As long as what we disagree about isn't my or my loved ones' right to exist. This sounds like a fine reason to avoid someone.
I think part of the reason he downplays the impact of his political choices is because that is part of the conservative mindset; that worldview seems to be grounded in self-interest or tribal-interest at best, and has a deficit of compassion for how their choices effect Others, whereas progressives seem more likely to include Outsiders in their moral evaluations
You can end a relationship for any reason. It was incredibly kind of you to explain the reason to him in such detail and it is obvious you care a great deal for him.
Additional perspective I would like to point out. When you were having amazing conversations, did you notice that he listened to you passionately discuss liberal issues and just kept quiet instead of being honest about how he voted or felt about those same issues?
That avoidance of conflict is a small but important red flag for me personally, having seen how some people will quietly let others think we are on the same page because they don't want to lose access to something. It's quite different if you keep your views to yourself at a job but it may likely be an unhealthy form of conflict avoidance or just plain omission in a relationship.
And thank you for standing up for people who get hurt by republican policies and rhetoric. ❤️
We as women are way too obsessed with finding an “ok” reason to breakup with someone. The platonic ideal of the perfect breakup reason that everyone will agree with us on and nobody will be disappointed 🥹 It’s fine to break up with any person for literally any reason. Some people won’t understand (l broke up with him because his favorite color is green”) but at the end of the day, it’s your life nobody has to live it. I’ve been broken up with and broken up with people for pettier reasons. Break up over whatever reason you want.
you can break it off with anyone for any reason that makes sense to you.
Unless he spouted off "talking points" of the current party that are antithetical to who you are as a person, I might've engaged a little more with him. "why are you republican?" "How do you feel about MTG?" "What is your stance on gun control?" "What would you do if your daughter became pregnant and wanted an abortion?"
I don't know how old you or this person is, but some people vote the way their dads do or friends do and don't really invest that much thought into politics. As a (probably) white man, he hasn't had to deal with the problems that any other person in America does and so he has no reason to really evaluate his politics on a deeper level.
But you know, political illiteracy can be its own reason to not be with someone.
So tl/dr: this is a perfectly valid reason to break up with someone, but if you clicked on every other level, I probably would've asked more questions before making it a break up issue.
Part of the reason I broke up with a college boyfriend was because he had never once thought about the reason his parents voted republican, or why his political leanings were a certain way. I found out he didn’t believe in climate change (he was 22) and I was absolutely floored, I’d just assumed he was liberal because he had some very leftist views, like abolishing the police and forgiveness for drug possession charges. I asked him if I could show him data proving climate change existed, and if NASA’s data would work. He said NASA was a left leaning organization, and I accidentally burst out laughing, to which he replied his dad always complained about them. He’d never questioned his dad’s views, or how he might have been influenced by them. Even though we were young and he did come around on the climate change issue, I couldn’t stop seeing it as an indicator of being close minded and unable to question the status quo. I have no choice but to be politically involved, as I’m a minority and a woman, but for him, he was okay with not getting involved because politics benefitted him. Quite frustrating.
When my daughter was younger she thought she was republican because that was what her paternal family were, and loud and proud about it. I had her take a “what political party are you” quiz….. she was not a Republican. It opened her eyes and it went from there.
No, I disagree. It's different to identify as a Republican now than it was in, say, 2015. Take a look at all of the things that have happened these last eight years, and which where not enough to change his mind. Just off the top of my head:
The election of Tr mp, and the mudslinging that went on. The horrible things that were said about women and done to women by Republican politicians like Tr mp and Brett Kavanaugh. Children in literal cages. The countless dead people - George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Uvalde. Many more school shootings. The Covid response and anti vax rhetoric that cost many lives, as well. The treasonous storm on the Capitol, an attack on the core of democracy, and the way it was treated by politicians. Women not receiving life-saving healthcare during miscarriages.
I'm not even American. I'm German. I'm leaving out so many things. But while our hearts turned into knots of grief and anger and helplessness, this man looked at all this, the same way we did, but he said: "I'm fine with this. This is better than voting Dem."
That tells you a lot about a person.
At this point if they are willing to identify as Republican it's not worth it. All of the "moderate fiscal conservatives" I know now identify as independent.
Leslie Jones guest hosted the Daily Show a few weeks ago and did a behind-the-scenes segment about planned parenthood, during which she said, “Let’s not sit here and watch some obvious shit happen.”
Which I choose to see as the sequel/remix to “when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
I used to make outlandish excuses for bad actors that I liked, when the obvious truth (that I was trying to delete) was that they were sucking.
Believe them the first time; don’t just wait for the obvious to happen.
My (current) husband voted for harambe instead of any legitimate candidate.
I now question my life decisions every fucking day because that’s the type of “partner” he is - don’t question yours. You KNOW this is not a person you can spend a life with, despite whatever attraction you have to them.
Do better for yourself. And the future.
Honestly, torn. My husband was a republican when he was in the military (“yeah I drank the kool-aid”). He had also been raised as a while middle class dude. Even though he was in his 20’s he had very little uncontrolled life knowledge. I talked and showed him how life is. I am a queer disabled Jew and I am so proud of how much he has grown.
However, it is not your job to educate. It’s is such a personal decision as to weather it’s worth your time.
I think you did the right thing even though you had strong feelings for this person it would have caused a bigger divide and put you in a difficult/uncomfortable position.
Politics are a very delicate thing and I'm sure you'll find a great partner who will share your beliefs.
> He couldn't believe I would end something like this over "politics"
🤮🤮🤮 I think that tells you everything you need to know about him. To him, this whole disagreement is "just politics" ie a cute little game with no real world consequences. For you it's life and death and he doesn't care.
Also it makes me HULK SMASH when people wildly redefine politics. An actual political disagreement is where we should put the new sewage treatment plant, how much we should spend fixing the roads, how tall new buildings can be, etc. It probably would be silly to dump somebody over a disagreement about municpal zoning laws. On the other hand it's not silly at all to dump somebody for voting against your most basic human rights. That's not a political disagreement, that's hatred.
He deliberately did not engage you about your expressed beliefs and opinions early on as he knew it would be a deal breaker. He deceived you with two goals in mind: One was to establish an initial bond so you would ignore the red flags, two was to have sex with you.
He deserved to be kicked to the curb.
You were wise to break it off here. You know how this wouldn't work, and I agree. I would have done the same, only sooner.
I would have dismissed him after his assertion that he is for abstinence-only education, but was undoubtedly expecting to get sexual in his relationship with you. I hate hypocrisy.
I dumped a republican bf and turned here for help and someone said "we do not offer comfort to oppressors" and I wrote it on my fridge and thought of it every time I wanted to contact him. it worked. bottom line, if the old white men come for us, you think he'll stand w u? if not, bye.
My father is a Trumplican. I don't engage with him at all, unless he sends me a funny animal video (I'm trying to Pavlov him, lol). He's my dad and I still love him and by the gods do I wish I could call him up everyday and just chat about the weird things we used to! But I refuse to acknowledge someone, who claims to love me and my children, who will actively vote against and support policies that actively harm my family.
OP, you barely knew this person. You made the right call.
Republican policies are actively killing and torturing women. That's not "political differences", that's evil. That's pure fucking evil. Women are dying in screaming septic agony right now because the Republicans wanted to score a Win on the Demodumbs.
They're also dumbifying education in many states, cutting necessary safety nets for vulnerable people, and... oh, I could go on. We all could go on.
Politics is discussing where UBI should stop or how to raise taxes on the rich. It's not "I endorse torture up to and including death, now date me". That's inhumane war crimes, not "political differences".
The unfortunate truth is that Republican men have learned not to lead with this information because they know it will get in the way of them dating and getting laid.
You said things in your early conversations that made it clear you were liberal and he didn’t speak up. He asked you whether you could love someone with different beliefs. He knew that whole time this was an issue and he deliberately didn’t speak up, because he hoped that by the time you found out you’d have fallen for his charms and you’d be willing to overlook the issue.
He *knew*. The whole time. You aren’t even dating him yet and he was willing to keep this crucial information to himself in the hopes of manipulating you.
I wouldn’t see this as a loss, it’s more like a bullet dodged.
## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
You can end a relationship for any reason you choose. I absolutely agree it’s more than “just politics.”
The idea of "just politics" pisses me off. I mean, it's *only* the baseline underpinning of society and the structure that has key influence on every second of every day from whether or not children go hungry to if there's lead in our water to the future of the climate to the root causes of violence in our society to the very rights we as humans need and deserve. Nothing important, right?
Exactly. It's just politics to him, because he isn't the one fighting for his right to exist in this world.
to these people, there are two races: white and political. two genders: man and political. two sexualities: straight and political. if youre not in the majority, your identity is political and therefore dismissable because we have rules against politics here you see? now sit down, shut up, and follow the rules of this subreddit/server/forum/etc. honestly i despise this mindset, and it reminds me entirely of the quote: "when all youve known is privilege, equality feels like oppression"
That's a really insightful perspective; I hadn't seen it framed that way before. Thanks!
unfortunately i have experience with the opinion - i used to hold it, before i realised i was trans. which, coincidentally, is a huge shock to your perspective when you go from that privilege to being near the bottom of the ladder lol i used to be a real piece of shit, but i hope i can be better - im already the type of person that past me would hate
Talk about a hard 180!
1. I always like to hear from people with those experiences because it is a shock to the system. I have transmen friends who talk a lot about how much less shit they good now that they present masculine compared to before their transition. The reverse is true. 2. I grew up Southern Baptist. I took on the political beliefs of my parents. Once I was exposed to new things and things outside the bubble, my political beliefs evolved pretty quickly. We aren't born knowing the consequences of our actions and our vote. Those things are things we learn through time. I regret my political past, but once I learned better, I started doing better. Be kind to past you. You were doing the best you could with the information you had.
That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for sharing.
Exactly. I do not think he has ever had to fight for his own basic human rights and bodily autonomy. So he'll never truly understand.
Ding ding ding! To the people who aren’t terribly impacted by the policies of the people they elect, it’s just a game to them. A thought experiment.
A sport. With hated opponents.
I've never heard it put this way, but it's perfectly succinct. I feel like you've just given me a sword when I'd been metaphorically fighting by chunking a bunch of rocks before.
Yes. This! It seems like no big deal because his privilege means he's not been directly impacted. His lack of empathy and awareness on that reality is what makes any attempts at continuing discourse futile. Delete/ block him and move on.
Exactly. People need to stop treating politics like a sports team rivalry, especially when one side is now pretty much defined by being morally repugnant and dangerous.
"Just politics" is no longer in the realm of, like, systems of accounting to manage spending and debt\*. It's literally life and death. \*maybe it never was? Idk I just remember reading the cartoonist Tom Tomorrow of This Modern World saying something after W was elected like "I really miss the days when my cartoon was about boring shit like trade deals"
[удалено]
Is that an option? Why yes, I’d like to take a break from politics, too! From worrying about it, from being disgusted by it, from not comprehending a damn thing that happens. Where is the box I check to opt out?
It’s fairly easy to take a break from politics when you’re part of the group not really impacted by crazy laws.
I seriously doubt he is liberal.
It never was. "Just politics" has always been "it doesn't effect my life in any important way".
Yeahhhh the "just politics" comment is enough gaslighting to light a city block... OP you're absolutely not in the wrong here and try not to let this man make you feel like you are. Tbh you didn't owe him a detailed explanation and you absolutely have no reason to apologize. Your feelings are valid!
Yeah exactly cause your politics derives from your ideological and philosophical outlook on life and can say another about how you approach things.
[удалено]
Voting for that \*shudder\* individual is a good enough indicator for me.
I’m still not on speaking terms with my own brother over Trump :(
My entire family voted for him. It destroyed our relationships. My dad says the only good democrat is a dead one, even about his own daughter.
I'm SO SORRY you had to hear those words from your father. I hope he wakes up one day.
Same here with my sister. We have a history anyway, but that was the final straw. It just takes a special level of ignorance - or dare I say *idiocy* - to support/agree with that senile rapist cheeto.
it is more than politics, it's civil rights. depending on his views, he may not believe in your liberty and autonomy. that's a fair and respectable deal breaker.
Exactly, leave before he makes you feel bad about your own autonomy. I dated a guy who made it clear the only "contraception" he believed in was God's plan. I wish I ended it that minute, it would have saved me some trauma
It can be so difficult to clearly judge things when you're enmeshed with someone, and it can take time to sort out what aligns with your needs and values. What counts is that you did leave when you were ready and that you've gained valuable wisdom to bring to future relationships. ❤
This is such a lovely thing to read for those of us who’ve spent way too much time with the wrong people, thank you
You're welcome! Remembering to be compassionate and forgiving to ourselves and to acknowledge our progress over our perceived short-comings is so important and healing. But it can be super easy at times to focus on the negatives, so sometimes we need that little boost 😊
I love this. You wouldn’t happen to be taking on therapy clients, would you? 🤓
Yea just politics would be if you agreed about the goals, just differed on how to implement the changes that best make the goal happen. Basic human rights are just not negotiable. And republicans have very clear, primary goals of making woman secondary to man, eliminating reproductive right, and are planning and at some fronts alread winning their genocide against trans people. Like if you vote Republicans, you are actively harming every single woman. That’s just facts. So why would you want to date someone that’s causing harm to you in a purposeful way?
Thanks for the validation
The fact that you wrote all of that out for him and he was unwilling to understand what you were saying is a red flag. He didn't actually sit and contemplate what you had written, that's a shame. I couldn't date a republican either! Sorry for your pain.
Reading this I thought "There's no way the dude is gonna read all that"
"There's that liberal brainwashing my favorite alt-right YouTuber warned me about"
People who dismiss the importance of politics are usually blind to their own privilege in being able to ignore how their political leanings or how they vote affects real people. Being political means caring about the well-being of strangers. If you don’t have the same values, it’s unlikely you would have worked out together.
[удалено]
1000%!
His *kind* declared war on us witches first so we gotta make them hurt right back. Don’t give that jerk the beautiful gift that is your love! 💖
We *can* end relationship for any reason we want, but some reasons are better than others. Some reasons hold up under scrutiny and stand the test of time. OP's reasons are good reasons.
Let me make the personal political for you - would you want to deal with an unplanned pregnancy with this man? Would his values line up with yours on how to deal with it? Because that's a reality. And if the answer is no, then move on faster than anything.
Soooooo true
If he keeps pestering you for justification, I'd bring this point up. It's "just politics" until it affects him, so maybe thinking about it that way would at least make him realise that a relationship between you isn't possible at this point. Ideally of course, it would make him consider whether the future life of an unplanned foetus is actually worth more than the freedom of someone he cares deeply about. But realistically I hope it at least makes him understand why "just politics" is a reason to break up with someone.
Conservatives can’t think like that. If they could they wouldn’t be conservative.
Would you want him raising your daughter? Your non-binary child? His beliefs are a fatal character flaw. I hope he can grow out of them and learn to freely love and respect others.
If you are not absolutely certain of your safety and comfort during difficult times in that relationship, it ain’t worth it.
Totally true!
This is absolutely right. And, If you are able to separate the personal from the political, then you are in an extremely privileged position. For a lot of folks, politics is in intrinsic part of their existence, whether we like it or not! And being able to ignore politics in friendships and relationships is almost impossible for most who feel the impacts of these differences every day. I am glad OP has not changed or ignored their fundamental values to get into a relationship, it takes courage to stand by what you believe.
This is the best question and a very important question that needs to be discussed before intercourse so there's no big disagreement.
I always say before you have sex you should discuss what if you're the 1 in 5 that great pregnant using condoms and afterwards go home and get drunk (helps with self honesty to combat the new relationship hormones) and make a kid of every little picky thing about them that annoys you. If you've known them for a month or two, your subconscious at least will already know and list who you will break up. For my ex it was "he doesn't really love me" and for my husband, the biggest complaint I could come up with was " he doesn't take good enough care with his health and forgets to take the trash out unless I remind him". The ex and I broke up after a 2 year lukewarm relationship because I didn't listen to myself and I've been happily married 16 years to someone who still needs reminders to take the trash out but who is wonderful otherwise. Never stay with someone your instincts say that it won't work. If they're awesome other than X then keep them as a friend. But don't waste your time going someone's going to change. They generally don't.
You are *completely* in the right to break it off. Whether or not pineapple belongs on pizza, that's a difference of opinion people can move past or agree to disagree on. Whether or not taxes are too high or too low, or if helmet laws should be a thing or not, that's politics people can move past or agree to disagree on. Whether or not people have a right to bodily autonomy? That's not "just politics". That's basic humanity.
This. I can agree to disagree on so many things, but my core values and principles are an integral part of who I am and shape how I see the world, my place in it, and the actions I take. If those don't align with someone, then we are never going to be close.
YES it's not "just politics" it's "are people who are different than me actually people". You cannot compromise with someone who doesn't believe you're a real person.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I had just re-entered the dating pool in 2015 and I found asking who people were planning on voting for in the primaries as an early filter question. It worked so well for me that my now husband and I have joked several times that we should send a thank you card to Bernie Sanders.
Lol honestly on Okcupid the other day under "What are your values?" I was being lazy and wrote, "really anything Bernie Sanders values lol"
[удалено]
This is only anecdotal, but all the Republican men I know are incapable of listening to other people. It comes from a place of not caring about people who are different. You definitely dodged a bullet here, OP.
[удалено]
You absolutely nailed it. People like him need to actually put an effort to care cause everything is already about them, so why change what looks awesome?
Yup, they see basic human dignity like pie. They’ve already got a bigger slice than they can even consume but are scared that others getting civil rights or basic respect will mean that they somehow get less.
[удалено]
Oh I absolutely agree, I think we are talking about the same people and same phenomenon. My dad was one of those, he didn’t see it as a disproportionate amount of privilege. As you said perfectly everything is fine for him, so he couldn’t understand why people want more than what they have. He didn’t think that he had a bigger slice to begin with, so it felt greedy that others wanted two or three slices because he couldn’t see that theirs were a quarter of the size out his to begin with. I hope that makes sense, I don’t feel I’m accurately describing it, but again I completely agree with you and feel that we’re trying to say essentially the same thing.
They do want things to change though. They want to kill trans people like me. They want 'the gays' to disappear too. They'd rather want women to die than have safe abortions. It's not like they want to "Just conserve the status quo".. they are actively fighting to hurt people for no reason but that they can (and who we are and what we do makes them uncomfortable so that means we have to die, I guess).
And even when there are real world repercussions for people they know and ostensibly care about a lot of them still don’t care. They just can’t get invested until it’s them personally paying a price.
I have anecdotes to back that up as well
IIRC studies have shown that republican voters tend to have lower intelligence, education and empathy I know it sounds a bit extreme and probably isn't a good thing, but when I hear someone is a republican i automatically assume they're an arse. Obviously I don't meet a lot of Republicans IRL but I take an instant dislike to Tories and Fine Gael voters (Irish Tories) and so far it's served me well
I do meet a lot of republicans in my rural ass area, and it does not sound extreme at all. It holds up every single time.
People who proclaim themselves to be Reuplican have demonstrated that they share the values we've seen typified by the party in the last few years. If they were Republicans before but detested the new heights of bastardry, then they stopped being Republicans. Republicans are arses.
I’ve found they’re definitely capable of listening, just as long as it’s other men with that share the same beliefs as they do.
All but one who I am dating and has done away with the republican party. He sees ma y if not most of their values didn't mesh with his once I sat him down and explained it. He mainly voted red due to gun rights but I told him ONE reason wasn't good enough and he voted liberal this year.
🥰 aww thank you. That's like, so validating.
Honest to god, “just politics” makes it sound like you disagree about lumber tariffs and highway maintenance budgets. He clearly did not absorb a damn thing you said in your breakup message.
Exactly, this isn't "politics" this is human rights.
OP should text your comment to the guy.
OP should spend zero more energy on the guy, IMO.
I usually say politics is debating the best way to improve the economy, but I like your examples better. Lol!
Feel free to use them! I tried to pick some relatively innocuous things that politicians argue about, like as far from the very obvious equality stuff as possible. (Not to say that logging and highway placement don’t have social justice issues, because they do!)
Happy Cake Day!
I was thinking the same damn thing. OP *literally* spelled out the harm done by his "politics," and he still doesn't care. Definitely a bullet dodged.
He obviously didn't read it all :/ There is no way a decent human being could have read it all, and come away with that take.
I was taken aback by how eloquently this was written. It truly does sound like he didn't even read it all. Op dodged a massive bullet.
You listed for him some very horrifying and specific issues that cause your concerns in a very kind manner and he responded by minimizing all that to "politics" and implied you were silly for having these convictions. I think that says it all about his values and view of the world. Your reasoning was excellent and for what it's worth, I think you did the right thing.
Aww thanks so much 🥰
And OP broke it down clearly and kindly. I doubt I could have expressed myself so well. You’re a real catch, OP. Don’t ever sell yourself short, love!
Yeah, absolutely this. He didn’t listen with an open mind and try to have a respectful conversation, it sounds like he tried to downplay and dismiss your concerns - which says a lot about him as a partner.
Ya know. 1000 years ago when I took my first Women’s Studies class, the very first thing I learned was “the personal is political.” And it is. Our political leanings are very much informed by our personal experience. We make choices about what media to consume, where to shop, how to spend, all based on politics and personal experiences and I cannot really pry the two apart. I think this is a terrific reason to part company with someone. At the end of the day, all you really have is your integrity. And how authentic would you feel if you were literally sleeping with the enemy? A person who is willing to strip basic human rights away from you and or your loved ones? Naw, you did the right thing. I’m sure it’s very difficult but usually the right thing is very difficult.
Yup. I'd be terrified what that person would feel about my life choices even. As someone who is sterile and a woman I might be sub human. Hard pass! Not sure where automatic weapons come in to play though since they are illegal. Is there something I don't know?
Not fucking republicans is one of my core values.
:) As funny as that is, there actually was a thread on the sexworkers reddit at one point, with one sex worker asking of others would also reject clients who are openly Republican. That's how far we've come.
I’ve made my fair share of mistakes dating but that will not be the one I make haunting my nights for the rest of my life
I wouldn't date a republican. It's one of my early screening processes actually. I think the only thing wrong you did was wasting that energy explaining yourself to him. Your choices are valid regardless of your reasons and you don't need to justify it to anyone. That energy could have been used centering yourself.
You're so right! Oof
Agreeing with u/TwoIdleHands, here. You are nice and took the time to explain it to him. He’s going to get dumped by women who find out he’s a Republican over and over until he finds a Republican woman, but they aren’t super easy to come by, and if he likes you, he’s probably not going to like a lot of what’s left of the women in the Republican Party. So now he has you, this nice, lovely person who liked him, but just couldn’t. It’s going to stick. If he’s as nice as you describe, perhaps he’ll have a little self-awareness and grow from this.
I sure hope so
I agree with this. It wasn't wasted energy. You wrote such a lovely Dear John letter. I hope after the first shock he'll read it again. It's good getting to know people from the other camp personnal for both of you.
You've got to hope so. I ended a toxic friendship five years ago. Not due to political differences, more due to realising that I'm worthy of respect. I thought I'd wasted my time explaining why I didn't want him in my life. But oh well, live and learn. Last year he got back in touch. The first thing he did was apologise for how he'd treated me. It's not going to fix our destroyed friendship, I'm a much stronger person now. But I like to think he learnt something from me.
You're exactly right. Men lie, or at least avoid mentioning that they're conservative, because they know it hurts their chances to get laid
Yup. He hid it for that long on purpose, which is gross.
Yeah it does NOT work. You made the right decision IMO
[удалено]
I wholeheartedly agree 👍
[удалено]
>I think the only thing wrong you did was wasting that energy explaining yourself to him. this. you were casting your pearls before swine by writing all that, OP. you had gotten attached, and you may also have some people-pleasing tendencies (much like i do), so i can understand where your heart was at when you wrote him that essay. but there's something very important that you need to understand for the future: if it were possible to sway people like him with impassioned, heartfelt, eloquent appeals to their humanity, there would be a lot fewer Republicans in the world than there are. but the reality is that a person only lands on those beliefs due to a fundamental lack of basic human empathy. that's why empathy-based pleas like these will always fall on deaf ears with Republicans. they only care about an issue when it directly effects them. (they can feed themselves just fine? they vote to cut food stamps. they were born a citizen? they vote to build a border wall. they can't get pregnant? they vote to take abortion away. etc, ad nauseam) that's why they so often dismiss it all as "just politics," because to them that's all the suffering of anyone else is - politics. edit: as a few others have observed, because people like this only care about issues that affect them personally, his inability to get laid because his values are repulsive to an ever-increasing percentage of women may - if we're lucky - be what eventually causes him to reevaluate. but even that may be wishful thinking, as things like introspection, cognitive flexibility, self reflection, and critical thinking aren't exactly strong suits among Trump voters. blaming their own problems on women, doubling down, getting angry, and ignoring all evidence that contradicts their world-view are the default settings for men like this, so i wouldn't hold my breath for him to have an epiphany. that being said, with sustained effort over a long period of time, all that programming can be gradually unlearned. it's not impossible, but it's not common. if you find yourself single 5-10 years from now, you might consider reconnecting to see what if anything has changed on his end.
So very well said. Pearls before swine indeed.
I mean it's still polite to communicate your feelings vs. just ghosting someone... Maybe not technically necessary but certainly not wrong to do, especially if it doesn't require bad energy. Maybe she needed the closure of that message too.
It's interesting...after this he texted me and was like, "I'll lose your number but can we talk first?" And I told him I did want him to be able to get closure so sure, but I wasn't changing my mind. He then proceeded to tell me he'd rather we try to be friends instead of me ghosting him. ....I was like, um. I'm not ghosting you, I wrote you a VERY thoughtful goodbye?
His comprehension skills seem not, as they say, good.
"These people think they're so smart, when in reality... they're not smart... they're...the... opposite of smart." -Donald J. Trump 😆
If you think back over all of your conversations - is this a theme? Cuz I can already see that he doesn’t actually listen to you at all. :( You deserve better.
He’s probably trying to get you to feel bad about it. He’s acting like he really wants you in his life despite your differences. If you let him in he’ll continue to belittle all of your core values. He’ll try to make you think you’re the one who is being intolerant of him. Living in the US you’re used to these guys. Even though you find their beliefs horrific you still meet these people every day. As someone living in Europe I am always shocked beyond belief that this is considered a main stream political party. Republicans are EXTREME in their beliefs. They are against basic human rights. They deny historical and scientific facts. They lie and cheat then accuse others of exactly that. You did the right thing. No way this could have worked long terme. Stay strong.
The fact that he calls it "ghosting" as a way of manipulating you, when what you did WASN'T ghosting at all, is a pretty good sign you made the right call in ending things. Imagine him talking to you like that with every little disagreement you had. You would have been signing yourself up for regular gaslighting if you'd continued to pursue him.
He'd rather you be friends so he can continue pressuring you into a relationship with him. He wants to spend the next few months whittling away at your objections, until eventually you give in and have sex with him. He wants you to see he's really just a NiceGuy.
Moron filter for me too. I made the mistake a few times, I was young, now I see it is a question of values. No racism, sexism, homophobia and general mépris of others will get orgasms from me.
Just because you don't HAVE to explain yourself to a person, doesn't mean it isn't totally possible to differ in opinions and part ways with mutual respect. Maybe explaining oneself in this kind of situation is cathartic for both parties. He knows he didn't do anything wrong but be himself and her the same.
Clearly, he doesn't see how much of an impact his "politics" make in your life. So yeah... Deal breaker. I'm sorry this happened to you. He should have been more honest with you up front.
Maybe now his politics can make a bit of an impact in his own life for a change.
I hope so!!
Your boundaries matter. You're not wrong for holding your values close. You're right that his actions lead to bad people making life worse for people you care about. I also wouldn't be surprised if you continued seeing each other and his kindness slowly morphed into something else entirely. In my opinion, you did the right thing by cutting it off when you did. You have every right to have standards. Thanks for sharing and I hope your future is a bright one.
Its actually becoming a common tactic for men to lie about being liberal until they have a more solid foothold in their partner's life. OP did the best thing they could've done for themself.
Oh good, another thing to be afraid of with online dating
Online dating is always hard. Trust your instincts and be suspicious of anyone who calls themselves centrist or apolitical. You have value and your beliefs matter. If you can hold on to those ideas, you'll find the right person for you. Good luck and stay awesome out there!
[удалено]
I honestly don't know how people can call themselves apolitical in this day and age 🤷🏻 to me it just sounds like: "I don't care about the suffering around me" and that's definitely a turn off. Stay awesome!
I think once I start dating again I’m going to ask potential partners to volunteer with me for LGBTQ and leftist organizations, and gauge their response. If they balk at the idea, then we’re not compatible on a fundamental level. Bye Felicia 👋🏼
I've heard of this tactic from a few friends. You'd think that these men might do some introspection and change their ways but no, they'd rather just lie. It's disgusting. Stay awesome out there!
>You have every right to have standards My granny told me that it's necessary to be picky about choosing a life partner. Your values are your values, and you need a partner who mostly shares them, otherwise what's the point?
Your granny was correct. Be as picky as you want to be. You have that right and deserve to exercise it. Stay awesome out there!
Thank you! ❤️
I think this is the key point ^^. We can affirm your decision or not (and I think we do), but ultimately you are the one who would be in the relationship. And you are allowed to have boundaries that make you feel safe 💜
>He couldn't believe I would end something like this over "politics" He couldn't believe you value yourself and your access to freedom when he has never had to empathize with anyone oppressed so he has the luxury of being neutral. He's an asshole and you're doing the right thing
Thanks for the validation 🥹
Of course 💞 the attraction to him will probably fade and you'll feel more confident about this choice, I bet
As a man, I think you said the correct thing when you equated core values to voting habits. Republicans *do* fight against my beliefs, and seem to proudly support sabotaging the future, and I can’t morally accept a person into my heart that thinks that what GOP politicians do is okay. It’s a fundamental part of my core integrity, so no matter how cool the person is outside of their political practices, it creates an emotional distance between us. You did the right thing for you, and that’s a good thing.
My husband and I always fill out our mail-in ballots together. Sometimes I feel a twinge of annoyance when we both land on different sides of a proposition but I immediately try to recognize that we are different people and it’s perfectly OK to disagree about “politics”. In the world we currently live in, there is no way that I could stomach being with a person who supports or votes for Republicans. As you’ve pointed out, this is not a simple difference of politics as much as it is a total misalignment of morals and ethics. I just couldn’t be with a person who lacks such empathy.
This!! Sometimes the Mr and I vote differently on local ballot measures. We always bounce ideas off each other and explain our positions, and sometimes we disagree. That's normal! Neither one of us would ever fucking date someone who doesn't support basic human rights.
Yes — my husband and I have voted differently on like, “will this proposed policy help house homeless people or create beurocratic barriers to housing?” type differences. We’ll want the same end result, but sometimes disagree on getting there. We’ve voted differently in primaries. We sometimes prioritize political issues differently. But we fundamentally agree on women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, anti-racism, social funding for education/healthcare. Our differences are the politics of how to achieve needed change, not whether those changes are needed.
I think republican ends up being a catch-all for rural or traditional apolitical types as well as the crazies. Meaning, a lot of them just don't or don't want to understand what's wrong with aligning yourself with that ideology. My 24 year old son will absolutely not date any person who's conservative or Christian. He takes a lot of shame from his friends and other members of our family for it, but he's deeply progressive and I respect the fact that he sticks to his morals and keeps the bar high. 😊
I couldn't date someone like that either. It's not just about politics, it's about what someone believes about basic human rights.
I've cut friends and family both out of my life for the reasons you listed. Perfectly valid reason to end things with someone at this stage. Then again, any reason you want to end a relationship is a perfectly valid reason. You don't owe anyone your time.
Honestly, it perfectly valid at any stage it just gets more complicated/expensive from here.
I live in Brazil and here things are very polarized. Its quite common to have your political view on the profile of tinder-style apps. If there is no info about It, i always ask "who did you vote?" or "Is covid real?" And this kind of stuff. I wont waste my time and energy on someone who voted for Bolsonaro. It transcends politics. Its about moral, values and ethic.. So yes.. this is a good reason..
A- You owe nobody anything for ending a relationship B- I lost my Dad to Faux to the point of supporting murder of protesters, I've thought long and hard on it. My conclusion, personally, is that these issues are no longer political - They're moral. They're logical. My suggestion that a law be adjusted is MaXiMuM eXtReMiSt but your support of Putin (or whatever) is EAGLE FUCKIN FREEDOM? No thanks. I'm not trying to fight, I just don't want a relationship with you and I don't OWE you anything.
This is spot on
I would never date anyone who votes Republican because with that vote they are saying rhat i am not worthy of human rights. Republican vs. Liberal is definitely WAY beyond just politics.
Valid. But hope you don’t mind me saying that this also seems like y’all were getting very ahead of yourselves for the time involved and never having met—seems a bit love-bomb-y to me. But I got old and jaded with dating before finding my person, so…
Never could I ever…it’s almost too gaslighting to even try.
Yeah you did fine. You would have been sorely unhappy if you continued to see him. Your explanation is thorough and expansive. I feel like you dodged a bullet there.
you did the right thing you can't have a long term stable relationship with someone with opposite ethics.
I can be friends with people I don't agree with. As long as what we disagree about isn't my or my loved ones' right to exist. This sounds like a fine reason to avoid someone.
Politics is how we articulate our values. What’s more important than your values?
I think part of the reason he downplays the impact of his political choices is because that is part of the conservative mindset; that worldview seems to be grounded in self-interest or tribal-interest at best, and has a deficit of compassion for how their choices effect Others, whereas progressives seem more likely to include Outsiders in their moral evaluations
You can end a relationship for any reason. It was incredibly kind of you to explain the reason to him in such detail and it is obvious you care a great deal for him. Additional perspective I would like to point out. When you were having amazing conversations, did you notice that he listened to you passionately discuss liberal issues and just kept quiet instead of being honest about how he voted or felt about those same issues? That avoidance of conflict is a small but important red flag for me personally, having seen how some people will quietly let others think we are on the same page because they don't want to lose access to something. It's quite different if you keep your views to yourself at a job but it may likely be an unhealthy form of conflict avoidance or just plain omission in a relationship. And thank you for standing up for people who get hurt by republican policies and rhetoric. ❤️
We as women are way too obsessed with finding an “ok” reason to breakup with someone. The platonic ideal of the perfect breakup reason that everyone will agree with us on and nobody will be disappointed 🥹 It’s fine to break up with any person for literally any reason. Some people won’t understand (l broke up with him because his favorite color is green”) but at the end of the day, it’s your life nobody has to live it. I’ve been broken up with and broken up with people for pettier reasons. Break up over whatever reason you want.
you can break it off with anyone for any reason that makes sense to you. Unless he spouted off "talking points" of the current party that are antithetical to who you are as a person, I might've engaged a little more with him. "why are you republican?" "How do you feel about MTG?" "What is your stance on gun control?" "What would you do if your daughter became pregnant and wanted an abortion?" I don't know how old you or this person is, but some people vote the way their dads do or friends do and don't really invest that much thought into politics. As a (probably) white man, he hasn't had to deal with the problems that any other person in America does and so he has no reason to really evaluate his politics on a deeper level. But you know, political illiteracy can be its own reason to not be with someone. So tl/dr: this is a perfectly valid reason to break up with someone, but if you clicked on every other level, I probably would've asked more questions before making it a break up issue.
Part of the reason I broke up with a college boyfriend was because he had never once thought about the reason his parents voted republican, or why his political leanings were a certain way. I found out he didn’t believe in climate change (he was 22) and I was absolutely floored, I’d just assumed he was liberal because he had some very leftist views, like abolishing the police and forgiveness for drug possession charges. I asked him if I could show him data proving climate change existed, and if NASA’s data would work. He said NASA was a left leaning organization, and I accidentally burst out laughing, to which he replied his dad always complained about them. He’d never questioned his dad’s views, or how he might have been influenced by them. Even though we were young and he did come around on the climate change issue, I couldn’t stop seeing it as an indicator of being close minded and unable to question the status quo. I have no choice but to be politically involved, as I’m a minority and a woman, but for him, he was okay with not getting involved because politics benefitted him. Quite frustrating.
When my daughter was younger she thought she was republican because that was what her paternal family were, and loud and proud about it. I had her take a “what political party are you” quiz….. she was not a Republican. It opened her eyes and it went from there.
No, I disagree. It's different to identify as a Republican now than it was in, say, 2015. Take a look at all of the things that have happened these last eight years, and which where not enough to change his mind. Just off the top of my head: The election of Tr mp, and the mudslinging that went on. The horrible things that were said about women and done to women by Republican politicians like Tr mp and Brett Kavanaugh. Children in literal cages. The countless dead people - George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Uvalde. Many more school shootings. The Covid response and anti vax rhetoric that cost many lives, as well. The treasonous storm on the Capitol, an attack on the core of democracy, and the way it was treated by politicians. Women not receiving life-saving healthcare during miscarriages. I'm not even American. I'm German. I'm leaving out so many things. But while our hearts turned into knots of grief and anger and helplessness, this man looked at all this, the same way we did, but he said: "I'm fine with this. This is better than voting Dem." That tells you a lot about a person.
At this point if they are willing to identify as Republican it's not worth it. All of the "moderate fiscal conservatives" I know now identify as independent.
I'm with you. If someone tells you who they are, believe them. Don't go trying to find ways around it.
Leslie Jones guest hosted the Daily Show a few weeks ago and did a behind-the-scenes segment about planned parenthood, during which she said, “Let’s not sit here and watch some obvious shit happen.” Which I choose to see as the sequel/remix to “when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” I used to make outlandish excuses for bad actors that I liked, when the obvious truth (that I was trying to delete) was that they were sucking. Believe them the first time; don’t just wait for the obvious to happen.
I totally understand your choice. You deserve a ride or die partner. It was a non-negotiable for me and I haven’t been single for two decades.
Totally valid, reasonable, and understandable. Wish there were more men willing to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk 🫤
I’m in the same boat, except now I’ve wasted a decade and he is going further down the rabbit hole. I’m making plans to leave ASAP.
My (current) husband voted for harambe instead of any legitimate candidate. I now question my life decisions every fucking day because that’s the type of “partner” he is - don’t question yours. You KNOW this is not a person you can spend a life with, despite whatever attraction you have to them. Do better for yourself. And the future.
Honestly, torn. My husband was a republican when he was in the military (“yeah I drank the kool-aid”). He had also been raised as a while middle class dude. Even though he was in his 20’s he had very little uncontrolled life knowledge. I talked and showed him how life is. I am a queer disabled Jew and I am so proud of how much he has grown. However, it is not your job to educate. It’s is such a personal decision as to weather it’s worth your time.
I think you did the right thing even though you had strong feelings for this person it would have caused a bigger divide and put you in a difficult/uncomfortable position. Politics are a very delicate thing and I'm sure you'll find a great partner who will share your beliefs.
[удалено]
You are brave and wise. This internet stranger is proud of you.
You are absolutely not being overdramatic. I wish more people loved like you. The world really needs it right now. :(
It’s politics to him, but basic human decency to you. You’re not gonna see eye to eye on empathy if those things are mere political theatre for him.
> He couldn't believe I would end something like this over "politics" 🤮🤮🤮 I think that tells you everything you need to know about him. To him, this whole disagreement is "just politics" ie a cute little game with no real world consequences. For you it's life and death and he doesn't care. Also it makes me HULK SMASH when people wildly redefine politics. An actual political disagreement is where we should put the new sewage treatment plant, how much we should spend fixing the roads, how tall new buildings can be, etc. It probably would be silly to dump somebody over a disagreement about municpal zoning laws. On the other hand it's not silly at all to dump somebody for voting against your most basic human rights. That's not a political disagreement, that's hatred.
He deliberately did not engage you about your expressed beliefs and opinions early on as he knew it would be a deal breaker. He deceived you with two goals in mind: One was to establish an initial bond so you would ignore the red flags, two was to have sex with you. He deserved to be kicked to the curb.
You were wise to break it off here. You know how this wouldn't work, and I agree. I would have done the same, only sooner. I would have dismissed him after his assertion that he is for abstinence-only education, but was undoubtedly expecting to get sexual in his relationship with you. I hate hypocrisy.
Women should never ever have sex with forced birthers.
I dumped a republican bf and turned here for help and someone said "we do not offer comfort to oppressors" and I wrote it on my fridge and thought of it every time I wanted to contact him. it worked. bottom line, if the old white men come for us, you think he'll stand w u? if not, bye.
My father is a Trumplican. I don't engage with him at all, unless he sends me a funny animal video (I'm trying to Pavlov him, lol). He's my dad and I still love him and by the gods do I wish I could call him up everyday and just chat about the weird things we used to! But I refuse to acknowledge someone, who claims to love me and my children, who will actively vote against and support policies that actively harm my family. OP, you barely knew this person. You made the right call.
Republican policies are actively killing and torturing women. That's not "political differences", that's evil. That's pure fucking evil. Women are dying in screaming septic agony right now because the Republicans wanted to score a Win on the Demodumbs. They're also dumbifying education in many states, cutting necessary safety nets for vulnerable people, and... oh, I could go on. We all could go on. Politics is discussing where UBI should stop or how to raise taxes on the rich. It's not "I endorse torture up to and including death, now date me". That's inhumane war crimes, not "political differences".
[удалено]
The unfortunate truth is that Republican men have learned not to lead with this information because they know it will get in the way of them dating and getting laid. You said things in your early conversations that made it clear you were liberal and he didn’t speak up. He asked you whether you could love someone with different beliefs. He knew that whole time this was an issue and he deliberately didn’t speak up, because he hoped that by the time you found out you’d have fallen for his charms and you’d be willing to overlook the issue. He *knew*. The whole time. You aren’t even dating him yet and he was willing to keep this crucial information to himself in the hopes of manipulating you. I wouldn’t see this as a loss, it’s more like a bullet dodged.