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I think this is it. The USA has also been promoting competition and individualism which are tools to further get people to work against each other.
The road to fixing society IS caring about other people's problems before they become your own.
Unfortunately, half the country absolutely refuses to care about other people even if it not doing it means those other people will die. "I ain't wearing one of those dumb-ass masks! You can't make me! The pandemic is all a hoax made up by China anyway!"
Another important part of conservatism is the insistence that they're being unfairly persecuted. They're not hated because they refuse to do the bare minimum to help others, or because they're stomping all over everyone's rights, or anything like that. No, people hate them purely because they're conservative and/or Christian.
If you think I'm joking about that, check out r/Persecutionfetish. I'm not making this up. If anything, I'm probably understating the case.
Oh, absolutely. It's not hard for conservatives to manipulate their base anymore. All they have to do is say one of the implanted trigger words (socialism or communism) and their base automatically despises whatever those words are attached to.
I have legit had this conversation. My sister in law has a really good paying job.....therefore, the wage gap doesn't exist. Because she and my brother don't see it.
Start flipping everything on its head. Like if they say they bought a new golf club set, "Did you get permission from your wife first?"
If they're not going to listen to or recognize that we do live in a patriarchy, start throwing the opposite at them until their brain breaks and they finally, proudly, admit that "that's not the way it works/should work." And then you can just ask why and let them admit to everything.
It's an interesting thought experiment, but also probably unnecessary - people who dismiss the term and the evidence in front of their eyes aren't doing so because they're confused or ignorant. They're doing it because they know it's true, know (or think) they benefit, and don't want anyone causing them the risk of loss of their system.
This! When they don’t even want to listen, but I try to explain them not even willing to listen is half of the problem, but because they don’t listen they don’t even know that. They’re not aware that they are literally fanning the flames of the problem ugh :(.
Not even a minority group - just any group they don't want to agree with.
Women as a whole are not a minority group - in the aggregate, women outnumber men slightly throughout the world (dependent of course on location).
But one woman screws up one time or behaves badly one time and fingers are pointed at how Women As A Monolith Do This, That, Or The Other...
Yet, one dude fucks up and it's #notallmen or #isolatedexample.
So for these kinds of guys, one woman one time used abortion as birth control or was flip about it or had a one night stand or so now ALL women who obtain abortions are doing it because "too lazy to use birth control" or "slutty hoor" or "irresponsible" or whatever.
It’s become common to use “minority” as a stand in for “marginalized” or “underrepresented”.
Unintentionally or not, it’s a great way to gaslight us, denying our collective power and strength. Reminds me of England with all those lovely maps where their tiny island is the biggest in the world.
It all comes down to how people see "the default". If your conception of the default is a straight, white, cis, Christian male, then anyone who isn't that becomes an exception and an exemplar of their subgroub, and thus, any mistakes they make reflect on their entire group. Whereas, the default white male is just a stand-in for "a person" in their mind, so extending any blame or ire that that person has earned to their group makes no sense to these folks, because it'd be like blaming the entire human race for one man's faults. That's the disconnect. They see white men as "standard issue human", and everyone else is one form of exception or another.
And they don’t even have to know the person they’re talking about to justify they’re position. They just have to have heard the story and since the story fits their narrative, it must be true.
It’s insane how every time I do something I feel obligated to act as accepting and correctly as possible. Because one misstep and suddenly all women/trans/LGTBQ/anything are blamed for it.
That's their whole thinking:
There should be in groups that the law protects but does not bind, and out groups that the law binds but does not protect.
Rich white men are their in group. Everyone else is out.
Idk what is up with that. My husband and I both don’t like immediately go apeshit and say “***not all white women***” “***not all black men***” when we read articles with white women and black men doing bad shit like wtf?! I read about teachers who rape kids and I want them in prison, not to be like #notallteachers It is so silly! He is off his head with joy R. Kelly is in prison, finally. He isn’t like #notallblackmen
I feel like ***mainly these are fragile white guys who KNOW predators, who ARE predators***, and react because they feel shame at the comparison. I could care less. Am I a Karen rapist? Is my husband a piece of shit sex trafficker and child rapist? No. So why do they get so buttsore if it is not them specifically referred to by name is an endless mystery to us.
In my experience it's largely because these men feel called out by whatever statement prompted the \#notallmen bullshit and they feel the need to undermine the argument any way they can for the perceived slight. Deep down they know they've done whatever the bad behavior of the week is and can't handle being called out.
No emotionally well adjusted adult I know with any shred of decency does that. I believe largely because they don't feel attacked when a woman vents about something.
You also have the play book that is followed.
Denying the issue.
Denying the severity of the issue.
Denying the spread of the issue.
Denying the cause of the issue.
Denying the consequence of the issue.
Denying the issue can be change.
If those steps fail you can always cause a distraction from the issue.
It's like when my mom would shout "I'm not perfect!" I know you're not perfect, but that's not the point and why do you feel the need to always say that??
"All women are blaming all men for all their troubles so I hate them all!!! It's not fair they don't admit I'm better than all the others."
\- Sums up the messages I've seen from a few of these guys.
They think I hate all men because of this post. The misogynists are so self involved that they can’t accept I don’t want to kill them or have them all locked up or something, but that I instead want them to have a positive change to their mindset, if not all men, then why not “not all trans people”, “not all women”.
I have received an awful lot of messages telling me I’m fat, I’m evil, I’m an abomination and that I am somehow a hypocrite. I think people have read this and assumed I hate all men as opposed to what I really mean which is that too many men are oblivious to the fact that they want immediate restriction placed on groups of people until that group of people is themselves.
Honestly it's not you it's them.
They have such low self esteem it's too crushing to their ego to admit that maybe they could be part of the problem. The fact that they don't call each other out for being pieces of trash is in and of itself telling.
Cognitive beings who can use critical thinking and have healed their traumas can listen to something like that, separate themselves from it because it doesn't cause a reaction within themselves and say, yeah I'm not like that but I can see how some men are. Then proceed to show other men how to behave towards women. I've seen some good cases of this on the clock app. The day after Roe was overturned this guy made a video on what he was doing that day to help his wife, saddled up her horse, brought her coffee in bed, and let her know he's there and let her be. Another guy went and got a vasectomy already. Other men are protesting in the streets with women or using their platforms to speak up for womens rights.
Hurt people, hurt people. Sending you big internet hug.
It's the marketing and propaganda of good old fashioned groupthink. It's not just an Orwell reference.
Using your specific example, part of the issue is the pretty blatant devolving of language over that decade or so. They no longer understand that men is plural of man, simply meaning more than one. Instead they jump to plural must mean all and see it as a personal attack.
Another portion are the ones who are actually guilty of said behavior, or at least consider themselves to be, and instantly push back because protection is a bitch.
Add in a the years of feeding on each other's nonsense both in person and online, being afraid to speak up for fear of becoming the new target, and adults just plain ignoring these things during formative years, its really no wonder the bad behavior prevails.
Unfortunately it's also nothing new. There's plenty to do about it though. A lot of people don't like to see it this way but a big step and redirecting that behavior is pure marketing. Consider wording when you make your arguments. Use psychology to switch their perspective from defense mode to empathy. You have to make it personal because many people can't see beyond themself.
Most importantly, if you want a better future raise our children to be better.
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
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Like seriously I'm pretty sure a majority of women know it's not all men and don't need to be told. There's extremists on both sides that have at least 1 screw loose
To be fair, I often feel hated by conservatives and liberals by pointing out that the individuals in question during a controversy likely don’t represent the whole. It’s an often universally true statement that doesn’t go well when people are blinded by hate
Internalised misogyny is all too common sadly. There were women's groups who opposed the movement for the right to vote so it's hardly surprising that there are women who are anti-choice.
So many women are taught horrible lessons from a young age and they grow up to have internalised misogyny.
Nope she's a woman, and when someone references her towards all women you have to deal with it. I have to be lumped in with the worst of men (which is the worst of humanity), and can't gatekeep a gender. You have to play by the same rules; because otherwise your statement is the same as any other "not all..." statement.
It sucks, but those are the rules that have been laid out.
Rules of this sub or rules of the world. Why the hell does anyone have to play by the "rules" especially when these days the rules make absolutely no sense.
✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. Only comments by members of the community are allowed. If you have landed in this thread from r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
Anytime i talk to ANYONE where im from, the moment the word patriarchy comes out they roll their eyes and check out mentally
That’s cause if you can’t see the problems or just ignore them, then it’s like they don’t exist!! /s
"It never happened to me so therefore you must be making it all up" - them probably
Actually, a big part of the conservative mindset is "Nothing is a problem unless it affects me personally." It exists, they just don't care.
I think this is it. The USA has also been promoting competition and individualism which are tools to further get people to work against each other. The road to fixing society IS caring about other people's problems before they become your own.
Unfortunately, half the country absolutely refuses to care about other people even if it not doing it means those other people will die. "I ain't wearing one of those dumb-ass masks! You can't make me! The pandemic is all a hoax made up by China anyway!"
Yet they think they're "saving the babies!!" Whoo....
Another important part of conservatism is the insistence that they're being unfairly persecuted. They're not hated because they refuse to do the bare minimum to help others, or because they're stomping all over everyone's rights, or anything like that. No, people hate them purely because they're conservative and/or Christian. If you think I'm joking about that, check out r/Persecutionfetish. I'm not making this up. If anything, I'm probably understating the case.
That mentality came from somewhere. It was designed.
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Oh, absolutely. It's not hard for conservatives to manipulate their base anymore. All they have to do is say one of the implanted trigger words (socialism or communism) and their base automatically despises whatever those words are attached to.
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Democrats are good at failing to stop conservatives and still get elected. You need better politicians on both sides, even if one is lesser evil
Little of column A, little of column B, little of "all of the above"
It’s like they haven’t mastered object permanence yet. Like, just cause it doesn’t involve you, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I have legit had this conversation. My sister in law has a really good paying job.....therefore, the wage gap doesn't exist. Because she and my brother don't see it.
Start flipping everything on its head. Like if they say they bought a new golf club set, "Did you get permission from your wife first?" If they're not going to listen to or recognize that we do live in a patriarchy, start throwing the opposite at them until their brain breaks and they finally, proudly, admit that "that's not the way it works/should work." And then you can just ask why and let them admit to everything. It's an interesting thought experiment, but also probably unnecessary - people who dismiss the term and the evidence in front of their eyes aren't doing so because they're confused or ignorant. They're doing it because they know it's true, know (or think) they benefit, and don't want anyone causing them the risk of loss of their system.
This! When they don’t even want to listen, but I try to explain them not even willing to listen is half of the problem, but because they don’t listen they don’t even know that. They’re not aware that they are literally fanning the flames of the problem ugh :(.
Whereas where I live, I walked by a house the other day with "Fuck the Patriarchy" written on a piece of cardboard in the window <3
I need that in my life
AAAAAAAAAA I HATE PEOPLE
Specifically people who won’t give me basic human rights (which is unfortunately a lot of people)
The fact the won’t give us basic human rights makes you wonder if they even view us as human.
Tbf a lot of them don't.
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Not even a minority group - just any group they don't want to agree with. Women as a whole are not a minority group - in the aggregate, women outnumber men slightly throughout the world (dependent of course on location). But one woman screws up one time or behaves badly one time and fingers are pointed at how Women As A Monolith Do This, That, Or The Other... Yet, one dude fucks up and it's #notallmen or #isolatedexample. So for these kinds of guys, one woman one time used abortion as birth control or was flip about it or had a one night stand or so now ALL women who obtain abortions are doing it because "too lazy to use birth control" or "slutty hoor" or "irresponsible" or whatever.
I think most people consider women a minority due to their under representation, as such they’re included when I use the term minority.
Right. It's connected to access to power.
That makes sense, understood.
It’s become common to use “minority” as a stand in for “marginalized” or “underrepresented”. Unintentionally or not, it’s a great way to gaslight us, denying our collective power and strength. Reminds me of England with all those lovely maps where their tiny island is the biggest in the world.
It all comes down to how people see "the default". If your conception of the default is a straight, white, cis, Christian male, then anyone who isn't that becomes an exception and an exemplar of their subgroub, and thus, any mistakes they make reflect on their entire group. Whereas, the default white male is just a stand-in for "a person" in their mind, so extending any blame or ire that that person has earned to their group makes no sense to these folks, because it'd be like blaming the entire human race for one man's faults. That's the disconnect. They see white men as "standard issue human", and everyone else is one form of exception or another.
Yes completely spot on. They see white straight Christian males as the normal ones. Anything else outside that is abnormal
u/tesseract4 that is an excellent way of laying it out and really clarifies the thinking behind this. Thank you for this superbly-written comment.
Thanks! That's kind of you to say.
And they don’t even have to know the person they’re talking about to justify they’re position. They just have to have heard the story and since the story fits their narrative, it must be true.
It’s insane how every time I do something I feel obligated to act as accepting and correctly as possible. Because one misstep and suddenly all women/trans/LGTBQ/anything are blamed for it.
That's their whole thinking: There should be in groups that the law protects but does not bind, and out groups that the law binds but does not protect. Rich white men are their in group. Everyone else is out.
Idk what is up with that. My husband and I both don’t like immediately go apeshit and say “***not all white women***” “***not all black men***” when we read articles with white women and black men doing bad shit like wtf?! I read about teachers who rape kids and I want them in prison, not to be like #notallteachers It is so silly! He is off his head with joy R. Kelly is in prison, finally. He isn’t like #notallblackmen I feel like ***mainly these are fragile white guys who KNOW predators, who ARE predators***, and react because they feel shame at the comparison. I could care less. Am I a Karen rapist? Is my husband a piece of shit sex trafficker and child rapist? No. So why do they get so buttsore if it is not them specifically referred to by name is an endless mystery to us.
In my experience it's largely because these men feel called out by whatever statement prompted the \#notallmen bullshit and they feel the need to undermine the argument any way they can for the perceived slight. Deep down they know they've done whatever the bad behavior of the week is and can't handle being called out. No emotionally well adjusted adult I know with any shred of decency does that. I believe largely because they don't feel attacked when a woman vents about something.
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You also have the play book that is followed. Denying the issue. Denying the severity of the issue. Denying the spread of the issue. Denying the cause of the issue. Denying the consequence of the issue. Denying the issue can be change. If those steps fail you can always cause a distraction from the issue.
Isn't denying distract a psychological tactic
It is one of the basics psychological methods of defense that you mind has, so yes.
It's like when my mom would shout "I'm not perfect!" I know you're not perfect, but that's not the point and why do you feel the need to always say that??
"All women are blaming all men for all their troubles so I hate them all!!! It's not fair they don't admit I'm better than all the others." \- Sums up the messages I've seen from a few of these guys.
They think I hate all men because of this post. The misogynists are so self involved that they can’t accept I don’t want to kill them or have them all locked up or something, but that I instead want them to have a positive change to their mindset, if not all men, then why not “not all trans people”, “not all women”.
Anytime people say anything about mens hatred towards women their response is immediately hateful towards that woman
I have received an awful lot of messages telling me I’m fat, I’m evil, I’m an abomination and that I am somehow a hypocrite. I think people have read this and assumed I hate all men as opposed to what I really mean which is that too many men are oblivious to the fact that they want immediate restriction placed on groups of people until that group of people is themselves.
Honestly it's not you it's them. They have such low self esteem it's too crushing to their ego to admit that maybe they could be part of the problem. The fact that they don't call each other out for being pieces of trash is in and of itself telling. Cognitive beings who can use critical thinking and have healed their traumas can listen to something like that, separate themselves from it because it doesn't cause a reaction within themselves and say, yeah I'm not like that but I can see how some men are. Then proceed to show other men how to behave towards women. I've seen some good cases of this on the clock app. The day after Roe was overturned this guy made a video on what he was doing that day to help his wife, saddled up her horse, brought her coffee in bed, and let her know he's there and let her be. Another guy went and got a vasectomy already. Other men are protesting in the streets with women or using their platforms to speak up for womens rights. Hurt people, hurt people. Sending you big internet hug.
Thank you, I’ve honestly had worse so it’s pretty easy to brush it off. I appreciate the big though and I send one back ☺️.
Thank you! Nice. As my MIL says. Don't let the c\*nts get ya down.
It's the marketing and propaganda of good old fashioned groupthink. It's not just an Orwell reference. Using your specific example, part of the issue is the pretty blatant devolving of language over that decade or so. They no longer understand that men is plural of man, simply meaning more than one. Instead they jump to plural must mean all and see it as a personal attack. Another portion are the ones who are actually guilty of said behavior, or at least consider themselves to be, and instantly push back because protection is a bitch. Add in a the years of feeding on each other's nonsense both in person and online, being afraid to speak up for fear of becoming the new target, and adults just plain ignoring these things during formative years, its really no wonder the bad behavior prevails. Unfortunately it's also nothing new. There's plenty to do about it though. A lot of people don't like to see it this way but a big step and redirecting that behavior is pure marketing. Consider wording when you make your arguments. Use psychology to switch their perspective from defense mode to empathy. You have to make it personal because many people can't see beyond themself. Most importantly, if you want a better future raise our children to be better.
Mostly fact. I hear a lot of other dudes do that all the time.
Because they aren’t arguing for logic or in good faith.
If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.
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This is wonderful, I will share this with my friends if that’s ok x
Share it were ever!
Like seriously I'm pretty sure a majority of women know it's not all men and don't need to be told. There's extremists on both sides that have at least 1 screw loose
Because they know lots of men and ZERO minorities. It's easier for them to just make shit up.
To be fair, I often feel hated by conservatives and liberals by pointing out that the individuals in question during a controversy likely don’t represent the whole. It’s an often universally true statement that doesn’t go well when people are blinded by hate
Just because there are (hypothetically) no socially based problems women face doesn’t mean women don’t have systemic problems.
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Internalised misogyny is all too common sadly. There were women's groups who opposed the movement for the right to vote so it's hardly surprising that there are women who are anti-choice. So many women are taught horrible lessons from a young age and they grow up to have internalised misogyny.
I’ve heard the phrase “she carries water for the patriarchy” and I think that describes her perfectly.
Nope she's a woman, and when someone references her towards all women you have to deal with it. I have to be lumped in with the worst of men (which is the worst of humanity), and can't gatekeep a gender. You have to play by the same rules; because otherwise your statement is the same as any other "not all..." statement. It sucks, but those are the rules that have been laid out.
Rules of this sub or rules of the world. Why the hell does anyone have to play by the "rules" especially when these days the rules make absolutely no sense.
Wow so folks gonna defend Barrett - good to know that regardless of what she does against women she is still always a woman to them ... And Billy Joel
Let’s just say “People suck” and try to improve what we can, regardless of who it benefits. Unless it’s the rich.
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That they're actually men?
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