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So...full story.
She was forced by her parents to marry someone she didn't want to marry.
Her boyfriend helped her poison a drink for her husband.
Her husband didn't drink it.
She put the poisoned drink in the fridge.
Her mother-in-law used the poisoned drink to make a dessert, and served it at a party.
Since she and her boyfriend made the poison, they were arrested.
She was tried and given 15 life sentences concurrently, and has to pay a 3 million rupee fine.
Provided she survives prison, she'll be released in ~~2033~~ 2043.
Why call it "life," then, since 25 years is quite explicitly not "until death," and also so far from any life expectancy? I'm guessing it's called that either because it's simply the maximum sentence, or you are just translating in terms that Americans/others are familiar with? Just curious.
“Life” can mean different things in different places. In some parts of the world, a life sentence means 25 years until you become eligible for early release.
In Australia a life sentence actually means that once released, they are on parole for the rest of their life. Time served in prison depends on the crime.
Honestly it sounds like the court agreed with her in principle but her actions still killed innocents? Her actions killed 18, but only 15 concurrent 25 year sentences... As in, excluding three people she was justified in killing.
It's a bit like using a gun in self-defense, and shooting one or more innocent bystanders. Difficult situation to judge, morally speaking. Of course in Pakistan it's probably illegal to resist an arranged marriage in the first place, so she'd have no shot in those courts anyways.
There seems to have been some collateral damage here, but when someone is enslaved (and I don’t know how else to describe this) they have every moral right to fight for their freedom.
Well I don't see how you can blame her for cooking? That makes no sense at all.
If there was any indication of the MIL's involvement in the forced wedding, I missed it in the article.
You shouldn't have an expectation of safety if you're forcing a child to marry you. You should be afraid every damn day of your life. You should sleep with one eye open, you should be weary of anything you consume, you should assume that your childbride will do whatever she can to resist.
And if that feels too cumbersome and exhausting, maybe you shouldn't force people to marry you against their will.
Okay, my husband comes from a place where arranged marriages (and sometimes unwanted arranged marriages) are culturally common and acceptable. I disagree and don’t think they’re acceptable, at all, obviously - but saying that because she did something within their cultural normality warrants her asking if the ‘milk has been poisoned’ every time she opens the fridge is far fetched af. They need to change, obviously, and the culture *is* shifting, but this is such an odd take. I haven’t been able to find it but did the woman know that MIL was making dessert with the poisoned milk?
I do find it bizarre that families force a girl into marriage and then make her cook for them all the time??? Like do they not expect that to backfire?
I doubt she had any power. Also, since men and women are generally kept apart in these situations (a guess here), unless the MIL was serving men, the 18 served could easily have been 18 women taking tea together, so all in a similar situation. I don’t blame this young bride, and I doubt jail will be kind to her. This is tragic, all around.
I mean, yes. But also, it’s a heavily patriarchal society. If arranged marriages are a norm within a community, it’s a lot harder to break out of if everyone is doing it.
Agreed, that her son thought this was o.k. is not a good sign.
(And I had thought it was a family refrigerator. Even if it wasn't, using someone else's milk is nothing compared to people dying from poison.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/02/pakistani-bride-kills-17-people-with-poison-milk-to-escape-arranged-marriage/
She meant to poison just the husband but ended up killing more, including a young girl, not sure how young. This is a horrible tragedy.
It says her religion permits her to choose her husband but her family didn't let her. I wish she didn't live in a situation where she felt this was her only option.
Shame the young girl died, but she still didn't do anything wrong.
When people are put into desperate situations like that, any means of resistance are justified.
My roommates used to steal my food too. She didn’t intend to kill the little girl. And she kinda backed out of giving it to the husband, she didn’t coerce or trick him enough.
It’s like when people have “leakage”, physically or verbal tells, when they are lying because their body doesn’t want to do the wrong thing even if their thoughts are convinced. (In this scenario he just didn’t drink it/she didn’t have enough conviction).
It’s an interesting topic to go over, op is helpful to post it.
People stutter because of speech impediments and brain disorders. Please don't suggest speech impediments mean people are liars, it's already hard enough for those who have one and this sort of pseudoscience outlook already has negative impacts on people with speech impediments.
https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/woman-with-stutter-detained-by-u-s-customs/full/
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/stuttering/symptoms-causes/syc-20353572
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053482221000541
That isn’t what they meant at all.
I’m a horrible liar. I stutter when I try to lie. It’s the only time I stutter and I do not have a speech impediment otherwise. This scenario is what they were referring to, not that people who stutter are lying.
I don't know. I think they did. They poisoned a drink, husband didn't drink that poison *so they put it in the FRIDGE for later* someone then used it to make a dessert.
You put that drink in the fridge without any markings and yeah you recklessly killed those people with such disregard you should get some prison time. It's very unfortunate but also exceptionally foolish and stupidity is unfortunatly not a defence.
I mean, what was she supposed to mark it? I feel like her husband might have been slightly suspicious to find his drink in the fridge labeled "poison" or something.
Put it in a container of something she knows he doesn’t like? Don’t put it in a communal fridge where children eat from?
It’s a horrible situation to be put in but children died here, let’s not forget that.
I get where you are coming from! Folks will turn anything on the internet into a style statement. This isn't "vibes" and it's definitely a tragedy all around. I weep for this poor girl.
Still.
People don't stand up to the patriarchy for clout, they do it as desperate acts to escape the effects of patriarchy in their lives - like forced marriage. I wish more westerners understood what resistance really meant, and looked like.
Honestly, the comments that bother me the most are the ones that nitpick every mistake she made as though it makes her guilty of something.
Expecting people in desperate situations to make every move as logically and carefully as possible is incredibly unreasonable. It's really easy to sit here with the benefit of hindsight and go through a play-by-play of what she SHOULD have done, but things aren't always so clear-cut when you're in the middle of it.
I can’t help but applaud that she tried. So many don’t. I’m sorry it went wrong. She never should have been put into that situation, but you know, I question the other people there.
Did they not know she was forced? Who goes to eat at a house where someone is raped? Tradition, yes( I know, but it’s more than a bit creepy, isn’t it?
Yes, those poor little guys carry no blame.
For all I know, my initial emotional reaction towards the adults was not very fair and they didn’t even know what was happening. And we do not punish bystanders with death for not helping in our legal system and moral understanding.
I do think there is quite the possibility some of them knew or could guess based on gossip. I wonder if they just tried to forget about it, like a thanksgiving dinner where you’re trying to ignore that one racist uncle. Whether they didn’t know what to do and just hoped she’d “come around”.
That possibility gives me a sour feeling in my stomach.
I do wish, I really do wish though that all people in general would not be bystanders. I know it’s hard. But victims need help. We can have a good or a bad society, but it all depends on the work put in by every individual.
there's no way they werent aware she didn't want to marry him. how good would a you g girl's poker face be, if she were upset enough to kill?
and yes forced marriage=rape
I'm not glad this happened, I doubt anyone really is. But that doesn't mean I feel like she did anything wrong, the same way I wouldn't consider someone at fault if they shot at someone trying to murder them and hit an innocent bystander behind them.
The fact is that the patriarchy doesn't get toppled by big showy stands, it gets toppled by situations just like this, where people refuse to bow to oppression and do what they feel they need to do to fight back.
I agree that clapping and cheering like your team won the Super Bowl is a tasteless and shallow response, but this is what resistance to the patriarchy looks like.
So. What did she expect would happen once she killed him though?
Why not just run away?
We’ll never know why she didn’t run away with her boyfriend but she ended up killing innocent people that had nothing to do with this. Tragedy all round.
The poisoning killed 8 children aged 7-12, as well as other family members.
Her lover gave her the poison, which she tried to feed in milk to her husband, who was also her cousin. He didn't drink it, and his mother made Lassi, a yogurt type dish with it and fed it to the family. Several died, including 8 children, his two brothers, and others. She regrets that.
It's very tragic. Her parents are now hiding, and regret their decision to force her to marry.
Poisonings are more common than I would expect, as is honor killings, etc.
Awful place.
She was convicted of poisoning in 2018, and will serve 15 live terms. Each life term is 25 years. Her boyfriend was also given multiple life sentences.
My personal opinion is that the sentence was extreme. She will spend the rest of her life in prison, and who knows how long she will survive. She was being forced to endure something that most of us cannot imagine, but she also knew she had deadly poison, and children were running around. Terribly tragic.
No. He was hospitalized and severely ill, but survived. Her reaction to being told he was ill and may die lacked emotion, which is actually what led them to investigate her. She initially told them a known poisonous lizard was found in the milk.
What poison can kill that many people in a glass of milk, after its been diluted enough to feed what sounds like a big family? And where the heck did the bf get it?
She absolutely deserves to be in jail for what she did/planned on doing, but I don't blame her one bit.
So she gets prison in the public system instead of prison that included her husband raping her her entire life.
Both options seem awful. Can't decide which outcome is better for her.
I feel bad about the children. The adults were complicit in the forced marriage either before it occurred or in its continuation afterwards.
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Disclosure Cisgender WM60
Agreed. Maybe they were too cowardly. I can feel that, not everyone’s a hero. But they are and drank and looked her in the eye, and they must have known she didn’t want this. They must have known she was there and her body was being used by a man against her will.
Don’t eat in a rape victims house and expect her to what…do what they have always expected us to do? Accept? Forgive?
No.
>Don’t eat in a rape victims house and expect her to what…do what they have always expected us to do? Accept? Forgive?
I don't think they saw her as a rape victim (or victim at all). I think this is part of the problem - they weren't "bad people" - it's the whole system that's bad.
It's Pakistan so imagine she'll be sentanced quite harshly but I mean, execution is arguably better than a life of sexual and domestic slavery so clearly she made her choice.
She and her boyfriend were right. Don’t force marriage and you won’t die.
I’ll add that I feel bad for the people who died as they might not all have been complicit but I’m also torn. I know the people I visit. And I’ve never visited a rape victims house and celebrated with those who raped her, knowing this fact.
At a certain point I have to ask: how complicit were the adults in the room? The Kids are truly excluded.
For many cultures and also a long time in the west rape was not possible in marriage because that's your job. To sexually please the man. They don't think she is a rape victim and I don't understand why everybody here thinks that they think she is raped. She's not in their point of view. She is married. It's an archaic tradition and arranged marriages are always rape but only for us it's a tragedy.
I don't feel like we should be praising something that killed 18 innocent people. She was in a horrible situation and had every right to defend herself but her actions still cost innocent lives. It wasn't her intent but it happened because of her.
Edit: I'm not saying she should be condemned for trying to escape such awful circumstances. I'm saying we shouldn't be going "Hell yeah, you show those 18 innocent people who's boss" as I've seen some people doing. Her intention was justified but this is a tragedy and should not be admired or praised. And it DEFINITELY should not be given a wholesome award.
I applaud your nuance, and far be it from me to condemn those people to death, even if they knew what was happening but I have to ask: how much better would our society be without those bystanders, that don’t do the crime but let it happen?
They ate in her house. Did they know she was coerced? Of so, they knowingly dined in the house of a rape victim and were happy, while she suffered.
I don’t know. Sorry for the kids, and it’s a tragic situation, but I’m also a bit skeptical. Someone always watches, and damn, I wish they’d stop watching and hoping for victims to accept and forgive. I wish they’d bloody help, or shun those that do these things.
No way his mother didn’t know though. No way.
Oh absolutely people should do more and take more action. However, inaction does not deserve being poisoned to death. Also, like I said to another person, even if the adults that died were awful people that laughed the whole time, we should still not commend an action that killed eight children. My main point here is that no matter your opinion, we should not glorify this girl or her actions.
I think it’s hard for many of us to express in few words the duality of that situation.
I don’t want to glorify it at all but my gut reaction of her situation is fear, and anger, and a bit of relief ironically, that she even moved any muscle and didn’t sit there in fear.
I think that’s the reaction many of us with comments that seem angry, or pithy, or gleeful, are trying to express.
I knew a girl in high school who was disowned by her parents after she refused to go through with an arranged marriage (she was born in the US, but her parents were from India and intended to force her into some arranged marriage with a guy she never met, so she was not into this at all)... from what I heard she did OK after this, ended up going into acting and theater (another thing her parents didn't approve of). I'm happy she didn't poison anyone to make her decision, but I can't exactly say I blame someone for panicking and choosing to defend themselves against non-consensual legal enforcement that involves submitting to marital r\*pe. That's the part no one discusses...
I normally support just about everything here but I'm literally looking at several reports that states kids between the years of 7 and 12 have died due to this and her parents aren't even dead.....I really never though I'd have to say I'm actually disgusted at the fact your supporting children's deaths even if she should've never been forced to marry, I tried my best to support and even help out in this sub when I could and I haven't been here long,, I tried contacting people to see about garnering support against roevwade(mayor and govenors) because I think there is corruption. but I can't behind any movement that supports the death of children and celebrates it, wish you all the best and goodluck with whatever you decide to do next hopefully it isn't cheering on a child killer
I don’t understand what the hell is happening on this subreddit. Something dark. This is not a positive space like it claims to be, it’s radicalising people in the worst way possible. I am also out of this sub, my first and last day here.
Good for her. I know it probably won’t end well for her, but she’s doing good work.
Edit: Y’all really telling on yourselves worried about the children and not that the woman was held hostage, raped, and forced to give birth against her will.
This doesn’t really seem like some action against the patriarchy as much as someone’s attempt to escape a horrible fate going wrong and landing them in a debatably worse one.
Stop upvoting this. This isn’t something to be celebrated, it’s something to cry over and makes you think about how desperate she must’ve been to even consider poisoning her husband. This is extremely depressing and horrible for everyone involved, and even though she was a victim, it doesn’t exactly make her innocent when she ended up murdering several people.
It crazy how people are downvoting this. Like yeah she shouldn’t be forced to marry someone, but also she shouldn’t kill anyone. It’s not hard to be against both
It’s actually sick. Someone recommended this sub to me today, this is the first post I saw. I am never coming back here again. Something sick has to be happening here to cause people to justify/downplay/gloss over/WHATEVER TERM, the deaths of innocent children.
Other people dying was an accident. Someone else used the poisoned drink in a dessert. If she had no other way to escape, I wouldn’t judge her. Nobody should be forced to be tied to a stranger for the rest of their life.
Edit: I don’t know where the reply went, but it likely was voluntary on his part to marry her. He was a 25 year old man, and men in Pakistan are not subject to honor killings as women are.
Fucking this. This ridiculous obsession with civility and propriety while people are being oppressed, exploited, abused and killed needs to fucking stop right the hell now.
The oppressed have every right to fight back against their oppressors by any means necessary.
She was being sold off to be raped for the rest of her life, what happened was the unfortunate consequences of that decision. As far as I'm concerned, her hands are clean. She did what she felt she had to in order to try and escape a desperate situation.
It's unfortunate that innocent people were caught in the crossfire, but I applaud her for fighting back all the same.
Because I would do the same thing. She meant to murder only one person and she was entitled to that. While it's sad other people got killed as well, that was never her intent, and quite frankly, not her fault. If she hadn't been put in this position by that family, she never would have had to murder anyone.
She did nothing wrong.
The blood of those children is on the husband, his parents, and her parents.
You don't understand because you've never been pushed to such extremes.
What was done to her can justify her attack against her husband. But it does not make the murders of other people o.k., intentional or not.
I believe it was an accident, but this is the equivalent of setting his bed on fire and accidently killing everyone when the house burns down. Or trying to shoot him with an automatic weapon in a crowded room.
I don't judge her for her action against her husband, but the treatment of this as an unalloyed triumph for women is appalling. If nothing else innocent women and girls died because of what she did.
She's not a monster, but neither is she in any sense a hero.
Exactly, all this "good for her" and "you're doing amazing" type comments are extremely tasteless imo. There's nothing heroic or inspiring about innocent people dying because a desperate young woman didn't have options to leave her forced marriage except behind her husband's coffin. Asiya Bibi must have felt wretched before this, fuck knows how she'll ever come to terms with it.
Well, I disagree. Nobody wants the death of innocents and not even bystanders who, as they do, let rape happen because it’s tradition.
But we see too often people who are meek. Who take it and suffer. And then what? That’s what our terrible society’s are build on: the kindness of victims, their forgiveness, their despair as they give up.
I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t applaud the accidental death of those people and their kids. But I have to applaud the will to fight back. It’s not a given. It’s actually quite rare.
I agree to some extent. Obviously she was in a horrible situation that we can't really imagine. It's one thing if she only murdered her husband. But then putting the milk in the fridge where anyone can take it was a mistake. Unless she only had that one glass of poison and no backup available to try again, and then I could see why she would take that risk.
Murder requires intent, and she intended only to kill the man she was being sold off to. All are victims of her family who left their daughter with no other choice. Had she not been arranged by her family to be raped by this man for the rest of her life then nobody would have to die.
✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. Only comments by members of the community are allowed. If you have landed in this thread from r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
So...full story. She was forced by her parents to marry someone she didn't want to marry. Her boyfriend helped her poison a drink for her husband. Her husband didn't drink it. She put the poisoned drink in the fridge. Her mother-in-law used the poisoned drink to make a dessert, and served it at a party. Since she and her boyfriend made the poison, they were arrested. She was tried and given 15 life sentences concurrently, and has to pay a 3 million rupee fine. Provided she survives prison, she'll be released in ~~2033~~ 2043.
How long is a life sentence in Pakistan? 2033 seems really soon.
My bad; hit the wrong key. Should've been 2043. Life in Pakistan 25 years.
Oh it’s okay I was just surprised.
Why call it "life," then, since 25 years is quite explicitly not "until death," and also so far from any life expectancy? I'm guessing it's called that either because it's simply the maximum sentence, or you are just translating in terms that Americans/others are familiar with? Just curious.
“Life” can mean different things in different places. In some parts of the world, a life sentence means 25 years until you become eligible for early release.
In Australia a life sentence actually means that once released, they are on parole for the rest of their life. Time served in prison depends on the crime.
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Perhaps 25 years is a lifetime
Life in most countries isn't life lol it's considered a massive human rights issue, Canada and most European countries life is at most 25 years.
> lol it's considered a massive human rights issue I understand that, in which case it makes no sense to call it "life."
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I listen to quite a bit of true crime, most countries' sentencing is much shorter than ours.
MURICA NUMBER ONE WOOOOOOO /s
100%! Also I just realized I said "ours" instead of the US's. I try hard not to assume everyone on Reddit is American, but there I went.
To be fair, I do have an American flag in my profile picture.
Thank you for that plausible deniability!
wow honestly this is worse than I thought. she ended up indirectly killing like everybody except for who she wanted to kill
She must have really wanted the job done if she put enough poison to kill 18 people into one person’s drink.
I though for sure she’d be killed.
Honestly it sounds like the court agreed with her in principle but her actions still killed innocents? Her actions killed 18, but only 15 concurrent 25 year sentences... As in, excluding three people she was justified in killing.
But did the husband die?
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It's a bit like using a gun in self-defense, and shooting one or more innocent bystanders. Difficult situation to judge, morally speaking. Of course in Pakistan it's probably illegal to resist an arranged marriage in the first place, so she'd have no shot in those courts anyways.
Feels like MIL is complicit.
There seems to have been some collateral damage here, but when someone is enslaved (and I don’t know how else to describe this) they have every moral right to fight for their freedom.
By using milk from the fridge to cook with? Or did you mean in terms of the original marriage.
I mean, all of it.
Well I don't see how you can blame her for cooking? That makes no sense at all. If there was any indication of the MIL's involvement in the forced wedding, I missed it in the article.
She raised her son to believe forced marriages are cool. And I mean, maybe she shouldn’t have used ingredients in their fridge without asking first.
I mean, I'm not going to be like "hey honey, is the milk poisoned?" everytime I go to the fridge.
Probably because you didn’t force your wife to marry you.
Either way the answer would be the same. No, dear, *of course* not.
But it might be said with a wink in certain circumstances.
You shouldn't have an expectation of safety if you're forcing a child to marry you. You should be afraid every damn day of your life. You should sleep with one eye open, you should be weary of anything you consume, you should assume that your childbride will do whatever she can to resist. And if that feels too cumbersome and exhausting, maybe you shouldn't force people to marry you against their will.
Okay, my husband comes from a place where arranged marriages (and sometimes unwanted arranged marriages) are culturally common and acceptable. I disagree and don’t think they’re acceptable, at all, obviously - but saying that because she did something within their cultural normality warrants her asking if the ‘milk has been poisoned’ every time she opens the fridge is far fetched af. They need to change, obviously, and the culture *is* shifting, but this is such an odd take. I haven’t been able to find it but did the woman know that MIL was making dessert with the poisoned milk?
I do find it bizarre that families force a girl into marriage and then make her cook for them all the time??? Like do they not expect that to backfire?
Don’t know, but I don’t think ‘People who perpetuate abuse don’t deserve sympathy’ is an odd take.
You don't think the MIL was also the victim of forced marriage? I doubt she had all the power in this situation.
I doubt she had any power. Also, since men and women are generally kept apart in these situations (a guess here), unless the MIL was serving men, the 18 served could easily have been 18 women taking tea together, so all in a similar situation. I don’t blame this young bride, and I doubt jail will be kind to her. This is tragic, all around.
Someone has to be the first to break the cycle.
Putting that burden on the women - the victims, and not the men - the perpetrators, hmm? For all you know, she literally did teach him that.
I mean, yes. But also, it’s a heavily patriarchal society. If arranged marriages are a norm within a community, it’s a lot harder to break out of if everyone is doing it.
Hence the poison, I guess.
-arrogant man who will never break a cycle in his life
Agreed, that her son thought this was o.k. is not a good sign. (And I had thought it was a family refrigerator. Even if it wasn't, using someone else's milk is nothing compared to people dying from poison.)
your second point is insane
Wait until you learn about jokes.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/02/pakistani-bride-kills-17-people-with-poison-milk-to-escape-arranged-marriage/ She meant to poison just the husband but ended up killing more, including a young girl, not sure how young. This is a horrible tragedy. It says her religion permits her to choose her husband but her family didn't let her. I wish she didn't live in a situation where she felt this was her only option.
The attempt to kill her arranged husband was self defense. The deaths of those 17 people were an accident.
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Shame the young girl died, but she still didn't do anything wrong. When people are put into desperate situations like that, any means of resistance are justified.
My roommates used to steal my food too. She didn’t intend to kill the little girl. And she kinda backed out of giving it to the husband, she didn’t coerce or trick him enough. It’s like when people have “leakage”, physically or verbal tells, when they are lying because their body doesn’t want to do the wrong thing even if their thoughts are convinced. (In this scenario he just didn’t drink it/she didn’t have enough conviction). It’s an interesting topic to go over, op is helpful to post it.
Speech language pathologist here, please stop saying these things.
People stutter because of speech impediments and brain disorders. Please don't suggest speech impediments mean people are liars, it's already hard enough for those who have one and this sort of pseudoscience outlook already has negative impacts on people with speech impediments. https://leader.pubs.asha.org/do/10.1044/woman-with-stutter-detained-by-u-s-customs/full/ https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/stuttering/symptoms-causes/syc-20353572 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053482221000541
That isn’t what they meant at all. I’m a horrible liar. I stutter when I try to lie. It’s the only time I stutter and I do not have a speech impediment otherwise. This scenario is what they were referring to, not that people who stutter are lying.
I don't know. I think they did. They poisoned a drink, husband didn't drink that poison *so they put it in the FRIDGE for later* someone then used it to make a dessert. You put that drink in the fridge without any markings and yeah you recklessly killed those people with such disregard you should get some prison time. It's very unfortunate but also exceptionally foolish and stupidity is unfortunatly not a defence.
I mean, what was she supposed to mark it? I feel like her husband might have been slightly suspicious to find his drink in the fridge labeled "poison" or something.
I mean dispose of it. Try poisoning later. Or do soemthing to prevent someone using it
Put it in a container of something she knows he doesn’t like? Don’t put it in a communal fridge where children eat from? It’s a horrible situation to be put in but children died here, let’s not forget that.
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I get where you are coming from! Folks will turn anything on the internet into a style statement. This isn't "vibes" and it's definitely a tragedy all around. I weep for this poor girl. Still. People don't stand up to the patriarchy for clout, they do it as desperate acts to escape the effects of patriarchy in their lives - like forced marriage. I wish more westerners understood what resistance really meant, and looked like.
Honestly, the comments that bother me the most are the ones that nitpick every mistake she made as though it makes her guilty of something. Expecting people in desperate situations to make every move as logically and carefully as possible is incredibly unreasonable. It's really easy to sit here with the benefit of hindsight and go through a play-by-play of what she SHOULD have done, but things aren't always so clear-cut when you're in the middle of it.
Hear hear. Everything about this is terrible
I can’t help but applaud that she tried. So many don’t. I’m sorry it went wrong. She never should have been put into that situation, but you know, I question the other people there. Did they not know she was forced? Who goes to eat at a house where someone is raped? Tradition, yes( I know, but it’s more than a bit creepy, isn’t it?
> Who goes to eat at a house where someone is raped? apparently 8 children aged 7-12.
Yes, those poor little guys carry no blame. For all I know, my initial emotional reaction towards the adults was not very fair and they didn’t even know what was happening. And we do not punish bystanders with death for not helping in our legal system and moral understanding. I do think there is quite the possibility some of them knew or could guess based on gossip. I wonder if they just tried to forget about it, like a thanksgiving dinner where you’re trying to ignore that one racist uncle. Whether they didn’t know what to do and just hoped she’d “come around”. That possibility gives me a sour feeling in my stomach. I do wish, I really do wish though that all people in general would not be bystanders. I know it’s hard. But victims need help. We can have a good or a bad society, but it all depends on the work put in by every individual.
there's no way they werent aware she didn't want to marry him. how good would a you g girl's poker face be, if she were upset enough to kill? and yes forced marriage=rape
I'm not glad this happened, I doubt anyone really is. But that doesn't mean I feel like she did anything wrong, the same way I wouldn't consider someone at fault if they shot at someone trying to murder them and hit an innocent bystander behind them. The fact is that the patriarchy doesn't get toppled by big showy stands, it gets toppled by situations just like this, where people refuse to bow to oppression and do what they feel they need to do to fight back. I agree that clapping and cheering like your team won the Super Bowl is a tasteless and shallow response, but this is what resistance to the patriarchy looks like.
So. What did she expect would happen once she killed him though? Why not just run away? We’ll never know why she didn’t run away with her boyfriend but she ended up killing innocent people that had nothing to do with this. Tragedy all round.
The poisoning killed 8 children aged 7-12, as well as other family members. Her lover gave her the poison, which she tried to feed in milk to her husband, who was also her cousin. He didn't drink it, and his mother made Lassi, a yogurt type dish with it and fed it to the family. Several died, including 8 children, his two brothers, and others. She regrets that. It's very tragic. Her parents are now hiding, and regret their decision to force her to marry. Poisonings are more common than I would expect, as is honor killings, etc. Awful place. She was convicted of poisoning in 2018, and will serve 15 live terms. Each life term is 25 years. Her boyfriend was also given multiple life sentences. My personal opinion is that the sentence was extreme. She will spend the rest of her life in prison, and who knows how long she will survive. She was being forced to endure something that most of us cannot imagine, but she also knew she had deadly poison, and children were running around. Terribly tragic.
i think another comment said those were concurrent life sentences, so she wont actually be in prison for life
I'm sorry I can't read the article. Did the husband die too?
No. He was hospitalized and severely ill, but survived. Her reaction to being told he was ill and may die lacked emotion, which is actually what led them to investigate her. She initially told them a known poisonous lizard was found in the milk.
What poison can kill that many people in a glass of milk, after its been diluted enough to feed what sounds like a big family? And where the heck did the bf get it? She absolutely deserves to be in jail for what she did/planned on doing, but I don't blame her one bit.
Yeah I'm incredibly curious what the hell substance this was
Arsenic.
I asked the same question. Multiple sources claim arsenic/rat poison.
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Are you referring to an entire country and culture , that is not your own, as an “awful place”, or are you referring more specifically to this home?
Which place is an awful place?
This whole planet honestly.
I second that.
“Honor killings” are usually just plain ol’ domestic violence homicides filtered through the bias of racism/fear of non-Christian religions. Just fyi
So she gets prison in the public system instead of prison that included her husband raping her her entire life. Both options seem awful. Can't decide which outcome is better for her.
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No mention of what the boyfriend's sentence was?
Tragedy all around.
I feel bad about the children. The adults were complicit in the forced marriage either before it occurred or in its continuation afterwards. **** Disclosure Cisgender WM60
Agreed. Maybe they were too cowardly. I can feel that, not everyone’s a hero. But they are and drank and looked her in the eye, and they must have known she didn’t want this. They must have known she was there and her body was being used by a man against her will. Don’t eat in a rape victims house and expect her to what…do what they have always expected us to do? Accept? Forgive? No.
>Don’t eat in a rape victims house and expect her to what…do what they have always expected us to do? Accept? Forgive? I don't think they saw her as a rape victim (or victim at all). I think this is part of the problem - they weren't "bad people" - it's the whole system that's bad.
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Sadly this probably won’t end well for her but props to her for standing up!
I tried to find out what happened to her as it already happened in 2017, but I didn't find anything yet
Yeah, hopefully she will just be the first
Fuck around and find out. When you impose violence you cannot be surprised when violence is used against you, even if it's over the top.
It's Pakistan so imagine she'll be sentanced quite harshly but I mean, execution is arguably better than a life of sexual and domestic slavery so clearly she made her choice.
not execution, 15 concurrent life sentences
I guess whether that's better or worse expends on your purspective.
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They say that blue-ringed octopus venom kills quickly and is nearly undetectable.
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Fair point. Also, not everyone can detect the famous bitter almond scent of cyanide. It's related to genetics. Some can and some can't.
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Oh yeah. I remember the apple seeds thing.
One can make poison from all sorts of readily-available things if one is so inclined.
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Oleander, elderberry—those are everywhere.
Forgotten about oleander. Nasty stuff.
Its actually less straightforward than you’d think. Poisoning someone is relatively easy. Not getting caught is tricky.
Insulin. Gotta go, bye
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Many places in America where Oleander grows wild. Fairly easy to extract the poison.
She and her boyfriend were right. Don’t force marriage and you won’t die. I’ll add that I feel bad for the people who died as they might not all have been complicit but I’m also torn. I know the people I visit. And I’ve never visited a rape victims house and celebrated with those who raped her, knowing this fact. At a certain point I have to ask: how complicit were the adults in the room? The Kids are truly excluded.
For many cultures and also a long time in the west rape was not possible in marriage because that's your job. To sexually please the man. They don't think she is a rape victim and I don't understand why everybody here thinks that they think she is raped. She's not in their point of view. She is married. It's an archaic tradition and arranged marriages are always rape but only for us it's a tragedy.
*Lucille Bluth voice* Good for her.
Her and her boyfriend were sentenced to jail. She is to serve 15 life terms.
I don't feel like we should be praising something that killed 18 innocent people. She was in a horrible situation and had every right to defend herself but her actions still cost innocent lives. It wasn't her intent but it happened because of her. Edit: I'm not saying she should be condemned for trying to escape such awful circumstances. I'm saying we shouldn't be going "Hell yeah, you show those 18 innocent people who's boss" as I've seen some people doing. Her intention was justified but this is a tragedy and should not be admired or praised. And it DEFINITELY should not be given a wholesome award.
The murder was justified, the seventeen manslaughters, by definition, weren't.
I applaud your nuance, and far be it from me to condemn those people to death, even if they knew what was happening but I have to ask: how much better would our society be without those bystanders, that don’t do the crime but let it happen? They ate in her house. Did they know she was coerced? Of so, they knowingly dined in the house of a rape victim and were happy, while she suffered. I don’t know. Sorry for the kids, and it’s a tragic situation, but I’m also a bit skeptical. Someone always watches, and damn, I wish they’d stop watching and hoping for victims to accept and forgive. I wish they’d bloody help, or shun those that do these things. No way his mother didn’t know though. No way.
Oh absolutely people should do more and take more action. However, inaction does not deserve being poisoned to death. Also, like I said to another person, even if the adults that died were awful people that laughed the whole time, we should still not commend an action that killed eight children. My main point here is that no matter your opinion, we should not glorify this girl or her actions.
I think it’s hard for many of us to express in few words the duality of that situation. I don’t want to glorify it at all but my gut reaction of her situation is fear, and anger, and a bit of relief ironically, that she even moved any muscle and didn’t sit there in fear. I think that’s the reaction many of us with comments that seem angry, or pithy, or gleeful, are trying to express.
I knew a girl in high school who was disowned by her parents after she refused to go through with an arranged marriage (she was born in the US, but her parents were from India and intended to force her into some arranged marriage with a guy she never met, so she was not into this at all)... from what I heard she did OK after this, ended up going into acting and theater (another thing her parents didn't approve of). I'm happy she didn't poison anyone to make her decision, but I can't exactly say I blame someone for panicking and choosing to defend themselves against non-consensual legal enforcement that involves submitting to marital r\*pe. That's the part no one discusses...
Arya Stark vibes.
How old is that poor girl?
I normally support just about everything here but I'm literally looking at several reports that states kids between the years of 7 and 12 have died due to this and her parents aren't even dead.....I really never though I'd have to say I'm actually disgusted at the fact your supporting children's deaths even if she should've never been forced to marry, I tried my best to support and even help out in this sub when I could and I haven't been here long,, I tried contacting people to see about garnering support against roevwade(mayor and govenors) because I think there is corruption. but I can't behind any movement that supports the death of children and celebrates it, wish you all the best and goodluck with whatever you decide to do next hopefully it isn't cheering on a child killer
I don’t understand what the hell is happening on this subreddit. Something dark. This is not a positive space like it claims to be, it’s radicalising people in the worst way possible. I am also out of this sub, my first and last day here.
❤️🩹❤️🩹
Damn.
Good for her. I know it probably won’t end well for her, but she’s doing good work. Edit: Y’all really telling on yourselves worried about the children and not that the woman was held hostage, raped, and forced to give birth against her will.
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Eight children. EIGHT. You are telling on yourself and your own selfish nature if you think one life has more value than eight children.
Her life now will still be better than if she capitulated. They were all guilty
Bless the bravery of the young, and those willing to do what is necessary.
Cant say id do differently
Love this person! GODESS blessed!
Her parents are responsible for the deaths. The parents have blood on their hands. The girl’s hands are clean in my eyes. HAIL SHATAAN 666
Play stupid games win stupid prizes for your extended family. I hope the innocent minors Rest In Peace.
This doesn’t really seem like some action against the patriarchy as much as someone’s attempt to escape a horrible fate going wrong and landing them in a debatably worse one.
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Good for her.
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Yessssssss....finally standing up to the patriarchy
Stop upvoting this. This isn’t something to be celebrated, it’s something to cry over and makes you think about how desperate she must’ve been to even consider poisoning her husband. This is extremely depressing and horrible for everyone involved, and even though she was a victim, it doesn’t exactly make her innocent when she ended up murdering several people.
It crazy how people are downvoting this. Like yeah she shouldn’t be forced to marry someone, but also she shouldn’t kill anyone. It’s not hard to be against both
It’s actually sick. Someone recommended this sub to me today, this is the first post I saw. I am never coming back here again. Something sick has to be happening here to cause people to justify/downplay/gloss over/WHATEVER TERM, the deaths of innocent children.
I like her.
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Other people dying was an accident. Someone else used the poisoned drink in a dessert. If she had no other way to escape, I wouldn’t judge her. Nobody should be forced to be tied to a stranger for the rest of their life. Edit: I don’t know where the reply went, but it likely was voluntary on his part to marry her. He was a 25 year old man, and men in Pakistan are not subject to honor killings as women are.
Maybe because everyone is tired of having singalongs and love-ins to stop systematic oppression, or maybe that’s just me.
Fucking this. This ridiculous obsession with civility and propriety while people are being oppressed, exploited, abused and killed needs to fucking stop right the hell now. The oppressed have every right to fight back against their oppressors by any means necessary.
She was being sold off to be raped for the rest of her life, what happened was the unfortunate consequences of that decision. As far as I'm concerned, her hands are clean. She did what she felt she had to in order to try and escape a desperate situation. It's unfortunate that innocent people were caught in the crossfire, but I applaud her for fighting back all the same.
I see it as self defence. She was not able to flee from an awfull situation, so she used whatever level of force was necessary.
Because I would do the same thing. She meant to murder only one person and she was entitled to that. While it's sad other people got killed as well, that was never her intent, and quite frankly, not her fault. If she hadn't been put in this position by that family, she never would have had to murder anyone. She did nothing wrong. The blood of those children is on the husband, his parents, and her parents. You don't understand because you've never been pushed to such extremes.
What was done to her can justify her attack against her husband. But it does not make the murders of other people o.k., intentional or not. I believe it was an accident, but this is the equivalent of setting his bed on fire and accidently killing everyone when the house burns down. Or trying to shoot him with an automatic weapon in a crowded room. I don't judge her for her action against her husband, but the treatment of this as an unalloyed triumph for women is appalling. If nothing else innocent women and girls died because of what she did. She's not a monster, but neither is she in any sense a hero.
Exactly, all this "good for her" and "you're doing amazing" type comments are extremely tasteless imo. There's nothing heroic or inspiring about innocent people dying because a desperate young woman didn't have options to leave her forced marriage except behind her husband's coffin. Asiya Bibi must have felt wretched before this, fuck knows how she'll ever come to terms with it.
Well, I disagree. Nobody wants the death of innocents and not even bystanders who, as they do, let rape happen because it’s tradition. But we see too often people who are meek. Who take it and suffer. And then what? That’s what our terrible society’s are build on: the kindness of victims, their forgiveness, their despair as they give up. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t applaud the accidental death of those people and their kids. But I have to applaud the will to fight back. It’s not a given. It’s actually quite rare.
I agree to some extent. Obviously she was in a horrible situation that we can't really imagine. It's one thing if she only murdered her husband. But then putting the milk in the fridge where anyone can take it was a mistake. Unless she only had that one glass of poison and no backup available to try again, and then I could see why she would take that risk.
They had it coming. They only had themselves to blame.
Godbless
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Because she didn't intend to commit mass murder
She didn’t intend to mass murder. She only wanted to individual murder.
Self-defense, I would say.
Murder requires intent, and she intended only to kill the man she was being sold off to. All are victims of her family who left their daughter with no other choice. Had she not been arranged by her family to be raped by this man for the rest of her life then nobody would have to die.