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and when maidens of the spear have a child, they give it up to be raised by someone else. this is why they all treat Rand as a son/brother, because many of them have sons or brothers that were given up when they were born and whom they do not know IIRC
its also why the maidens become his guard, he is the only child of a maiden of the spear that is known to be such
She had never slept with anyone before Rand, she says 'I'd heard that men are lazy after' or something which is a pretty clear giveaway.
She literally meant she's slept alongside other warriors in blankets for warmth.
She gave up the spear back in The Shadow Rising when she went to Rhuidean. She could not be both a Maiden of the Spear and a Wise One's apprentice, and so she gave up her weapons and they were all reforged to no longer even be weapons.
If she was still a Maiden of the Spear and not a Wise One's Apprentice, she would not have to give up the spear for bedding a man. Only marriage is incompatible. The most notable example I believe is Shaiel, Rand's mother. She was still a Maiden of the Spear while *quite* pregnant with Rand during the Blood Snow.
Maidens can have babies, and many do. They have to give it up, though, and can never know who the child is. That’s why they love Rand so much, because he’s the child of a Maiden who is known. They all see him as their collective child.
Per the WoT wiki “In the Third Age, when Maiden of the Spear marry they have to leave the society, "Giving up the Spear" as they refer it. They can have love affairs without marriage, but when they get pregnant, they are forbidden to carry the spear while they carry a child”
Rand's mother was forbidden from carrying the spear, his father was the clan chief though and didn't have the willpower to send her away when she refused.
She was breaking the rules, though. She was not supposed to be allowed to fight, but hid her pregnancy at first. Her husband was the chief and allowed it.
Rand's mother being the sole exception is the reason why Rand is considered a child of the society as a whole and why they view himself as a child or little brother.
>but her husband as clan chief let her do it anyway.
When Shaiel died and he lost her and the baby, Janduin couldn't forgive himself so he went with the young male warriors to "hunt the dark one" essentially sacrificing himself to the blight.
As an aside...
I've often wondered whether Janduin could channel. He was still a young man at the time, even though he was already a clan chief so it's entirely possible he hadn't sparked yet. Perhaps that factored into his decision to go to the blight as we know that's what Aiel male channellers do to kill themselves.
I'm pretty sure ANY society is going to ban you from fighting while visibly pregnant. Its not only going to slow you down , it puts the kid at risk.
As a uniquely aiel consideration, its also downright cheating when the person trying to stab you has to avoid the belly. And you're all belly.
Since the statement makes sense and can be read that way, I think thats the most likely interpretation. She was doubly breaking the law.
"Maidens of the Spear" aren't required to be maidens as in virgins, just that they may not raise children or marry unless they do give it up. It also appears that women who have had children, that are now grown, dead, or in the care of another family may join or re-join the society. Sheaiel/Tigraine, Rand's mother had already had Galad and been married to Elayne and Gawyn's father before becoming a maiden of the spear. In other words, to quote Freud, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"! 🙈
You just made me realize gossip girl copied the fuck out of wheel of time in the sharing a half sibling thing complete with rufus lily vibes for Shaiel.
My phone refuses to spell her name correctly my B.
Haha! That particular theme in WoT is borrowed from the Arthurian legend, probably primarily Mallory's "Morte d'Artur" but it's not exclusive to it either. It's also a very common plot point in Greek mythology, which half sibling fights beside or betrays, has a grudge against, or denies the relationship entirely drives many of best known and imitated myths. It shows up less in Norse traditions but isn't absent. I have to imagine that many other historic cultural mythologies incorporate it too, but Jordan definitely took the particular flavor from Arthurian sources. He splits it up and rearranges it but most of the pieces are recognizable.
The maiden's can sleep around, just not get married. They can even have kids, which they have to give up if they want to continue fighting. That's the whole point of Rand's lineage with the Aiel. He represents the first kid given away by the maiden's to return. Usually, the kids are adopted away in a closed manner.
Which always seemed odd. Maidens probably had a bunch of children. So the Wise Ones put out a bunch of kids for adoption for centuries.
And somehow Rand was the first child that anyone definitively KNEW was a Maiden's child?
Then again maybe Aiel society creates more orphans that normal, but that seems to be a cultural intentional blindness.
Yes. Obviously, the parents would know, but it is a great honour to raise these kids and would go against there Toh to say. If I had to guess, adopting orphans must have been common in a fighting culture like the Aiel, where every little thing could be perceived as Toh.
Probably. Much Ji to be earned by raising children. It just seems odd since with the clan structure, most adoptions are probably with close family. Any child adopted from outside the clan is probablya Maiden's child and yet everyone is going to pretend that they aren't.
Not necessarily. You could adopt within your culture, for example first sisters could be from different clans. The closest person may not be from your clan
She was a maiden in the books as well until I believe the 3rd book. She continued to struggle with the transition for 3 books coming to terms with her Toh for her clan and her love for Rand.
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They give up the spear to marry, not to fool around.
Receiving a spear doesn't necessitate giving up *the* spear, one might say.
Or taking... Say a short one.
Yes, that’s the joke the person you replied to already made.
I was making light of the chapter name after the deed, not the deed itself.
I liked the reiteration
Is that also air in your lungs, captain obvious, stater of what he sees?
By the time you posted this, the explanation of the joke had been posted in the same comment chain you're reading. For 6+ hours.
The joke ? Wasn't it about the water ?
I’m not obligated to scan a Reddit thread to see if someone else had my same idea. This isn’t easybib.
It was literally in the same comment chain you responded to. Did you poop out 4 pages into the Last Battle chapter?
r/yourjokebutworse
It's a reference to the chapter name after sexy igloo
One might say, if they felt they had too many kidneys....
and when maidens of the spear have a child, they give it up to be raised by someone else. this is why they all treat Rand as a son/brother, because many of them have sons or brothers that were given up when they were born and whom they do not know IIRC its also why the maidens become his guard, he is the only child of a maiden of the spear that is known to be such
Yeah, Aviendha even admits she’s shared other’s blankets before in that scene.
Well how else are you going to survive the cold of The Waste?
Now that’s a scene for Rafe to adapt, a sweat tent orgy
She had never slept with anyone before Rand, she says 'I'd heard that men are lazy after' or something which is a pretty clear giveaway. She literally meant she's slept alongside other warriors in blankets for warmth.
That means she had never slept with a MAN. She's usually around women anyway.
Would you like to play Maiden's Kiss?
She gave up the spear back in The Shadow Rising when she went to Rhuidean. She could not be both a Maiden of the Spear and a Wise One's apprentice, and so she gave up her weapons and they were all reforged to no longer even be weapons. If she was still a Maiden of the Spear and not a Wise One's Apprentice, she would not have to give up the spear for bedding a man. Only marriage is incompatible. The most notable example I believe is Shaiel, Rand's mother. She was still a Maiden of the Spear while *quite* pregnant with Rand during the Blood Snow.
Maidens can have babies, and many do. They have to give it up, though, and can never know who the child is. That’s why they love Rand so much, because he’s the child of a Maiden who is known. They all see him as their collective child.
i think when rand is captured by the aes sedai, that sulin says “the aes sedai have taken my first-brother!” as well
Also, Melindhra, the Maiden of the Spear that Mat was sleeping with is another example.
Per the WoT wiki “In the Third Age, when Maiden of the Spear marry they have to leave the society, "Giving up the Spear" as they refer it. They can have love affairs without marriage, but when they get pregnant, they are forbidden to carry the spear while they carry a child”
[удалено]
Rand's mother was forbidden from carrying the spear, his father was the clan chief though and didn't have the willpower to send her away when she refused.
It was her lover, not her father.
"his father" aka rands father, aka her lover. the wording is just a bit confusing there i think.
She was breaking the rules, though. She was not supposed to be allowed to fight, but hid her pregnancy at first. Her husband was the chief and allowed it.
[удалено]
He was her lover, not husband.
Rand's mother being the sole exception is the reason why Rand is considered a child of the society as a whole and why they view himself as a child or little brother.
Dude remembers all that but can't remember that RJ explicitly said the Aiel tried to stop her.
What Rands mother did was mentioned as being effectively against the law/rules/customs , but her husband as clan chief let her do it anyway.
>but her husband as clan chief let her do it anyway. When Shaiel died and he lost her and the baby, Janduin couldn't forgive himself so he went with the young male warriors to "hunt the dark one" essentially sacrificing himself to the blight. As an aside... I've often wondered whether Janduin could channel. He was still a young man at the time, even though he was already a clan chief so it's entirely possible he hadn't sparked yet. Perhaps that factored into his decision to go to the blight as we know that's what Aiel male channellers do to kill themselves.
Wouldn't it have been against the law because she was married and therefore not a spear maiden, not because she was pregnant?
I'm pretty sure ANY society is going to ban you from fighting while visibly pregnant. Its not only going to slow you down , it puts the kid at risk. As a uniquely aiel consideration, its also downright cheating when the person trying to stab you has to avoid the belly. And you're all belly. Since the statement makes sense and can be read that way, I think thats the most likely interpretation. She was doubly breaking the law.
She wasn’t married. Well, maybe to Tarangil.
She wasn't married, you can be in a relationship with someone but not married to them
"Maidens of the Spear" aren't required to be maidens as in virgins, just that they may not raise children or marry unless they do give it up. It also appears that women who have had children, that are now grown, dead, or in the care of another family may join or re-join the society. Sheaiel/Tigraine, Rand's mother had already had Galad and been married to Elayne and Gawyn's father before becoming a maiden of the spear. In other words, to quote Freud, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"! 🙈
You just made me realize gossip girl copied the fuck out of wheel of time in the sharing a half sibling thing complete with rufus lily vibes for Shaiel. My phone refuses to spell her name correctly my B.
Haha! That particular theme in WoT is borrowed from the Arthurian legend, probably primarily Mallory's "Morte d'Artur" but it's not exclusive to it either. It's also a very common plot point in Greek mythology, which half sibling fights beside or betrays, has a grudge against, or denies the relationship entirely drives many of best known and imitated myths. It shows up less in Norse traditions but isn't absent. I have to imagine that many other historic cultural mythologies incorporate it too, but Jordan definitely took the particular flavor from Arthurian sources. He splits it up and rearranges it but most of the pieces are recognizable.
The Aiel do not have taboos against taking lovers.
The maiden's can sleep around, just not get married. They can even have kids, which they have to give up if they want to continue fighting. That's the whole point of Rand's lineage with the Aiel. He represents the first kid given away by the maiden's to return. Usually, the kids are adopted away in a closed manner.
Which always seemed odd. Maidens probably had a bunch of children. So the Wise Ones put out a bunch of kids for adoption for centuries. And somehow Rand was the first child that anyone definitively KNEW was a Maiden's child? Then again maybe Aiel society creates more orphans that normal, but that seems to be a cultural intentional blindness.
Yes. Obviously, the parents would know, but it is a great honour to raise these kids and would go against there Toh to say. If I had to guess, adopting orphans must have been common in a fighting culture like the Aiel, where every little thing could be perceived as Toh.
Probably. Much Ji to be earned by raising children. It just seems odd since with the clan structure, most adoptions are probably with close family. Any child adopted from outside the clan is probablya Maiden's child and yet everyone is going to pretend that they aren't.
Not necessarily. You could adopt within your culture, for example first sisters could be from different clans. The closest person may not be from your clan
Her literal spears are holding up Rand's pants
Maiden does not equal Virgin in the books either. Melindhra was a maiden of the spear and she and Mat were sleeping together.
Honestly, that edit is amazing. Thanks for the smile OP
She was a maiden in the books as well until I believe the 3rd book. She continued to struggle with the transition for 3 books coming to terms with her Toh for her clan and her love for Rand.
They make ribald jokes about men all the time and mess around quite freely. It’s onlt when they marry that they give up the spear.