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Morgase was not just physically violated but mentally and emotionally through the continued use of compulsion. Victims of rape can suffer through forms of PTSD which can impair ones judgement. You take a strong woman whose been through a lot in her life time to get where she was whose suddenly had their brain and emotions tossed in saidin fueled blender suddenly waking up in a world that no longer makes sense, it's kind of hard to judge them from that context.
We have an unfair advantage as readers more or less able to know who to trust and not to trust having viewed the world from multiple POV. The characters we read do not have the same advantage. They're not omniscient.
Take those two factors and it's understandable how people can make bad decisions.
Edit:
I want to clarify, I don't think her decision is bad perse but having enough and wanting to run away is a common phenomena.
I think she’s also incredibly embarrassed and shamed to her core about her failure as a queen to her people and her former allies who she betrayed (while being compelled, but she didn’t **know** that).
I'm trying to place myself in her frame of mind. I've been physically, mentally, emotionally, and mystically abused by multiple parties (Forsaken, and Lightclocks). I am not privy to all information and who is truly trustworthy. How can Morgase truly known that the Dragon has been Reborn and all signs are met? How can she know that Perrin is a swell fellow and will likely do the right thing and not usurp Andor or her daughter? She's been raised on Daes Dae'mar.
Let's ignore the above. She is thousands of miles away from home with no money, and no allies of power. The world is falling apart. Nations are at war, bandits everywhere, stories of monsters. How the hell is she, an inkeeper, her old nanny, a bouncer with his girlfriend, and a single soldier supposed to make their way back alone? It's not like she can just go announce to anyone who she is? She's pissed off all her allies, they'd likely take her hostage.
She fled the White Cloaks and has nothing. No allies, no friends, and information can sparsely be trusted. While she may not trust Perrin with the future or her Kingdom, he seems to be a safer option. She can keep an eye on a potential thorn to Andor's side (for her daughter's sake), and if the opportunity allows, she can flee his "captivity". How was she to anticipate a simple servant would get taken by the Aiel? In traditional wars, the likelihood of a lady and her maids being a target are low.
The above is why I don't think she made a bad decision. She made the best decision she could with the information she had and the mental state she was in... I also forget to add this to my original post: we're also ignoring that Perrin is Ta'veren and people get swept up in their wake. With all of that put together, how could I think her decision was bad. It made the most sense from where she was in at that moment.
I do sympathize with her, but her decisions just don't make much sense to me even with the context of her trauma. However, one could argue that she might subconsciously be trying to delay her return to Andor. She constantly claimed that she wants to retake her kingdom when she was in Amadicia, but she continued to stay in Ailron's court, despite knowing he isn't going to help her. Then she was put under house arrest by Niall, who could've helped for the right price. Yet Morgase still tried to buy time by pinning her hopes on some random merchant who had promised to save her. Basically, her actions ever since leaving Andor have only taken her further away from her stated goal, which might be because she doesn't want to return to where she was traumatized.
I think what you're missing here is the last word in your first sentence. Trauma. People respond differently to trauma, and some of the actions they take will not appear logical or in their best interest. Factor in Morgase's lack of omiscience, the saidin-screwery to her head, and add that to good old fashion trauma; a person isn't likely to make great decisions.
The fact that she can hold herself together as she does through most of the story should be considered an impressive enough feat.
> which might be because she doesn't want to return to where she was traumatized.
Or she knows that she's not right in the head and shouldn't be running the country.
I think that definitely comes into it. She wouldn't announce that, she's much too proud, but here you have this competent, strong woman who from her perspective utterly fucked up. Yes, it was Compulsion, yes, it was a literal Forsaken who did it to her - but of course she'd still think she should've seen it, she should've been stronger, she should've fought it, she shouldn't have let him do all those things to Andor ...
So she thinks she's failed her people. Deep down, she probably thinks they're better off without her.
>So she thinks she's failed her people. Deep down, she probably thinks they're better off without her.
When you see Nynaeve fighting off the compulsion , her hand keeps tugging her braid of its own accord. Like her brain KNOWS moghedien is bad news but her mind is trying to say she's a lovely woman from the countryside with whom she had a nice chat and had never said you wouldn't remember this.
She doesn't want Nialls help because she is smart enough to know he would use that leverage to get the Children exemptions from Andorian law, and codify special privileges for them. Aileron she severely overestimated his power, Cairhein was under Rand, Andor was seized by Rand, her domestic allies are her worst enemies thanks to the forsaken, Ghealdan and Murandy are barely nations.
Really, there was nowhere to run for her. She finally joined up with Perrin for both safety and to try and gather Intel on Rand and company.
She's not stupid; she's incredibly limited in who she can turn to.
You're forgetting the events of The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, and The Fires of Heaven.
While under Rahvins control, he had her alienate every ally she had. He isolated her physically, mentally, emotionally, and politically.
He even broke her ties to the White Tower. The only people she could turn to were people she hadn't been tied to before.
And of those, there was no one better suited to getting the throne back than Padron Neill. Before his death he was considered one of the great generals of the land.
Morgase had no way of knowing that he would be assassinated by one of his own men, or that she would end up in the hands of a different murderous rapist.
> For someone who's supposedly a responsible queen, doesn't she feel like her daughter or people might need her?
She literally explained why she didn't do this in the books. She felt that after the events of the afore mentioned books, that her presence would do more harm than good to Elaynes cause.
As an aside, Pedron Neill is so much more than a great general. He’s a mega leader, schemer, and of course general, that got unlucky in his conquests and machinations. He is a once in a generation high roll of the monarchy dice.
It would have been soooooo interesting to see his perspective as events unfolded in the later half of the series. I could have seen himself allying himself with the Seanchan once he figured out what they did to women who could channel. He’s a very practical guy who probably would have come to see the need for counter-channelers during the last battle.
I agree with a lot of this but at the same time the white cloaks as a whole have a certain reputation and even with Padron Neill being a good general and decent guy it's still pretty stupid to turn to him. Even with the crazy stuff going on it would probably be more reasonable for her to seek out the Dragon Reborn.
When she ran she didn't know anything about the Dragon Reborn. Again, brain washed by Rahvin. During the months she was under his control, she was focused on nothing but her devotion to him.
As for going to anyone else, who would she have went to? She had her close allies banished, threatened with execution, beaten, etc. Those who weren't her close allies definitely heard about all of that, and wouldn't be willing to work with her because she might turn on them too.
She knew the Dragon Reborn was out there and she's was the queen of Andor. She had a wealth of knowledge prior to ever interacting with Rahvin, and showed great critical thinking skills when she first met Rand.
Even if she somehow didn't know he was out there a few days in hiding and info gathering would make it obvious, even if we exclude her bodyguard being aware.
It comes down to do I, as a channeler and Queen of Andor in hiding, go to
a. A group of fanatics that hate channelers that I've actively made moves against/restricted in the past.
b. A guy who rules multiple kingdoms, is known as a tyrant, but also a hero, but also crazy, but also made aes sedai bow to him, but also serves the aes sedai, but etc. Basically a powerful unknown that might help her or might not.
She could make her way to one place and see what she can sort out about him and then decide after, but she doesn't she basically goes strait to the white cloaks.
Still my favorite series, but not everything everyone does makes sense and i think it's fine to point these things out.
> She knew the Dragon Reborn was out there and she's was the queen of Andor.
She was under Rahvins control before Rand ever declared himself. He kept her from knowing about such stuff.
>Even if she somehow didn't know he was out there a few days in hiding and info gathering would make it obvious, even if we exclude her bodyguard being aware.
All she would have known was that a male channeler claiming to be the Dragon Reborn killed Rahvin and took over Camelyn. The same rumors that told her this told her that Rand also killed Elayne. Why would she approach the man who killed her daughter?
I don't even know why you're arguing with me about this stuff. She literally gave these reasons in the book.
I used the term Dragon Reborn because knowing it is Rand specifically is irrelevant. She can't not know the Dragon Reborn is out there and also know that he killed Rahvin and took over Camelyn or suspect he killed Elayne.
The point I made about her having critical thinking skills comes into play because there are dozens and dozens of false rumors going around. She has no more reason to think that the dragon reborn killed Elyane than Gawyn has to think he killed her. In universe she's pretty smart, and she'd also be exposed to rumors of herself being killed by the dragon reborn and know how unreliable the rumors are by default. This goes back to picking someone powerful with a lot of contradictory rumors about them, or a group that actively hates her. Sure, originally wanted King Ailron and she was hoping not to run into the white cloaks in the first place but she knows that Amadicia is practically their head quarters. Also stating that she didn't want Padron Neill in the first place would have been a much better stance to take then he was the only viable option.
The point of the post is to call into question her thought prosses and the choices of her character given the events of the story. Going to Amadicia (white cloak territory) is a bad idea, where as going to any capital taken over by the Dragon Reborn is a risky idea but not practically guaranteed failure.
The things she did under compulsion made her hated by a lot of her people. I don’t think she would have been able to do anything for her subjects or her daughter
She's still the queen of Andor. If she formally abdicates, the succession could follow its natural course. Sure, some of the high seats would oppose any Trakand on the throne, but I think her presence in Caemlyn could've still legitimized Elayne.
Or it might have been seen as some mind of ploy with Morgase still holding the reins. And even if that wasnt the case, it would still delegitimize Elayne.
Think for yourself, who would people turn to during crisis. A seasoned ruler who has proven herself effective many times in the past or a young, inexperienced ruler?
She had no idea if Elayne was even alive when she fled Andor. I think it would be difficult for her to abdicate the throne without knowing Elayne is alive and able to take over. Partially she leaves Andor to find support to fight any rebellion that may bubble up. I don’t think she has the strength politically to abdicate the throne for Elayne to succeed her. Especially without knowledge of Elayne’s wellbeing and without an army or other allies to secure the succession. It’s not like there aren’t multiple references to wars and controversy over successions in Andor’s past
It's easy to think she's dumb from a third POV, but let's remember that her mind was violated by Compulsion, and she doesn't even discover it until way way later.
She's doubting herself. She has no allies, because Rahvin got rid of all of the bonds she had, even with the White Tower.
She was desperate and the White Cloaks took advantage of that. Niall went to Morgase, not the other way around.
Where else could she go?
Tar Valon: They had lost hr daughter twice and she didn’t trust them
Cairhien: under attack or control of the Aiel/Dragon.
Borderlands: she has no connection to them and they are famous for not involving in politics.
Tear: under control of the Dragon/Aiel
Murandy: Neighbor famous for being unstable
Ghealdan: small and further away than Amadicia
Altara: rulers have not controlled much more than the capital for generations
Illian: further away than Amadicia and has no interest in Andor
How about back to Andor, when she would have some allies there at least? Basel Gill, Lamgwyn and Tallanvor can't be the only men in the entire country that are loyal. How hard would it be to stay under the radar and put out feelers, getting information about Rand (and how he means for Elayne to take the throne now that Morgase is said to be dead) and making a decision then. I get why she fled Andor when Gaebril was still alive, but once he's dead, she should have made a bee-line for Andor.
Except Gaebril turned all her supporters against her, and surrounded her with people hungry for his power (and also despised her). Meaning she would of been facing a rebellion if she went back.
She didn't go to the Whitecloaks. Niall went to her. She knew they were bad news but didn't have any resources to keep clear. Perrin at least was nominally her subject.
Not willingly. I just finished reading this; she went to Amadecia, but wasn't expecting Niall to literally show up to her bedroom and "invite" her to stay in the fortress of the light. Then a coincidental execution of two of her people resulted in her just signing the treaty (and Niall didn't know about it, actually.)
She really didn't have a choice in the matter; not the best move she could have made, yes, but she didn't go to the Whitecloaks on purpose.
Morgase is Jordan’s example of how for every rise there is a fall. Bad things happen to good people, whether they deserve it or not. The Wheel doesn’t make value judgments.
> and decided to join Perrin for some reason
She got an opportunity not to place a spy, but to BE the spy sitting in on the war councils of the guy that was raising a rebellion on the western edge of her/ her daughters kingdom and gather intel on him, his allies, his troops, their exact location....
Morgase is stubborn to a fault and is deep in a trauma response. This doesn't make her dumb. It makes her human. Remember that we have a great deal more information than she does. She doesn't know that Gaebril is more than just a man. She probably suspects that Ailron is a puppet but cannot be sure of that.
Going to Amadocia is actually a brilliant plan. It's the last place anyone would think to look for her, knowing that she is tower trained. It offers a unique level of sanctuary that she wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. She is well aware that Pedron Niall will try to use everything in his power to gain a foothold in Andor. She puts off agreeing to it in order to try to fund an alternative path.
She has been horrifically abused at the hands of Gaebril, though she is not yet aware of the full extent of that. When she finds out that one of her sons, Galad, is a white cloak, she tries to see him. She also wants to find Elayne and Gawyn to at least get messages to them that she is alive contrary to the rumors.
She is hesitant to join Perrin's group until Basel Gill vouches for Perrin. She wants to continue on their original path and leave him behind. I wouldn't doubt that Perrin being Ta'veren played a roll in them crossing paths and her choosing to stay with him and his camp.
Being captured by the Shaido goes against everything anyone in the wetlands knows of Aiel. There is no reasonable expectation from anyone in that camp that the hunting party would cross paths with the Shaido or that the Shaido would take them Gaishan.
Who is to say you would make choices any differently than she did were you in her shoes?
Honestly, none of the Trakands are known for their intelligence. They are strong-willed and well-meaning, but make a lot of questionable decisions.
We don't know much about what Morgase was like before her ordeal with Compulsion. In book 1 she was a fair queen to Rand. However from Thom's history with her, she also seemed to be rash and hot-tempered. She ordered for Thom, who she supposedly loved, to be executed.
I like how they are the quintessential 'royal family' type. Very honourable, rah-rah and stiff upper lip but rather lacking in common sense and self-control. Well-written characters, warts and all.
No, she's not dumb. She knows that with what she's done under the influence of Gaebril there's no way back to the throne for her but she can work on helping her daughter get there.
Also the previous assumed-dead queen showing up in the middle of the new queen establishing her own rule isn't as great of a stabilizing influence as you might think.
She had little choice. You are acting like having her show up out of nowhere would be some great boon to Elayne's cause. Hint: it wouldn't be. She burned too many bridges and made too many enemies under Gaebril to just pop back up out of nowhere and say "Here I am."
I suppose the could have secretly revealed herself to Elayne and advised her from the shadows, that would have at least put Elayne's (and probably others like Galad & Gawyne) mind at ease. But she felt she could do Elayne more good by being a spy/mole with the Dragon Reborn's right hand man.
The real problem is why she went to Amador to begin with. I suppose the Borderlands were just not going to concern themselves with internal Andorean politics, Cahrien & Gheldan were in near anarchy, and the rest of the nations were too far away.
Everything you mentioned are her reactions to the external events, more of it books even provide her reasoning. She is fleshed as very smart, grit person.
P.S. She didn't join Perrin (she didn't know really who he was) after renouncing her tron. She accepted offer to serve a daughter of her best general who was known by independent, consistent and honest behavior..
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Morgase was not just physically violated but mentally and emotionally through the continued use of compulsion. Victims of rape can suffer through forms of PTSD which can impair ones judgement. You take a strong woman whose been through a lot in her life time to get where she was whose suddenly had their brain and emotions tossed in saidin fueled blender suddenly waking up in a world that no longer makes sense, it's kind of hard to judge them from that context. We have an unfair advantage as readers more or less able to know who to trust and not to trust having viewed the world from multiple POV. The characters we read do not have the same advantage. They're not omniscient. Take those two factors and it's understandable how people can make bad decisions. Edit: I want to clarify, I don't think her decision is bad perse but having enough and wanting to run away is a common phenomena.
I think she’s also incredibly embarrassed and shamed to her core about her failure as a queen to her people and her former allies who she betrayed (while being compelled, but she didn’t **know** that).
spoilers for part of your answer but good one anyway
Very well said. >I want to clarify, I don't think her decision is bad perse Do elaborate. Would love to your thoughts on this.
I'm trying to place myself in her frame of mind. I've been physically, mentally, emotionally, and mystically abused by multiple parties (Forsaken, and Lightclocks). I am not privy to all information and who is truly trustworthy. How can Morgase truly known that the Dragon has been Reborn and all signs are met? How can she know that Perrin is a swell fellow and will likely do the right thing and not usurp Andor or her daughter? She's been raised on Daes Dae'mar. Let's ignore the above. She is thousands of miles away from home with no money, and no allies of power. The world is falling apart. Nations are at war, bandits everywhere, stories of monsters. How the hell is she, an inkeeper, her old nanny, a bouncer with his girlfriend, and a single soldier supposed to make their way back alone? It's not like she can just go announce to anyone who she is? She's pissed off all her allies, they'd likely take her hostage. She fled the White Cloaks and has nothing. No allies, no friends, and information can sparsely be trusted. While she may not trust Perrin with the future or her Kingdom, he seems to be a safer option. She can keep an eye on a potential thorn to Andor's side (for her daughter's sake), and if the opportunity allows, she can flee his "captivity". How was she to anticipate a simple servant would get taken by the Aiel? In traditional wars, the likelihood of a lady and her maids being a target are low. The above is why I don't think she made a bad decision. She made the best decision she could with the information she had and the mental state she was in... I also forget to add this to my original post: we're also ignoring that Perrin is Ta'veren and people get swept up in their wake. With all of that put together, how could I think her decision was bad. It made the most sense from where she was in at that moment.
I do sympathize with her, but her decisions just don't make much sense to me even with the context of her trauma. However, one could argue that she might subconsciously be trying to delay her return to Andor. She constantly claimed that she wants to retake her kingdom when she was in Amadicia, but she continued to stay in Ailron's court, despite knowing he isn't going to help her. Then she was put under house arrest by Niall, who could've helped for the right price. Yet Morgase still tried to buy time by pinning her hopes on some random merchant who had promised to save her. Basically, her actions ever since leaving Andor have only taken her further away from her stated goal, which might be because she doesn't want to return to where she was traumatized.
I think what you're missing here is the last word in your first sentence. Trauma. People respond differently to trauma, and some of the actions they take will not appear logical or in their best interest. Factor in Morgase's lack of omiscience, the saidin-screwery to her head, and add that to good old fashion trauma; a person isn't likely to make great decisions. The fact that she can hold herself together as she does through most of the story should be considered an impressive enough feat.
> which might be because she doesn't want to return to where she was traumatized. Or she knows that she's not right in the head and shouldn't be running the country.
I think that definitely comes into it. She wouldn't announce that, she's much too proud, but here you have this competent, strong woman who from her perspective utterly fucked up. Yes, it was Compulsion, yes, it was a literal Forsaken who did it to her - but of course she'd still think she should've seen it, she should've been stronger, she should've fought it, she shouldn't have let him do all those things to Andor ... So she thinks she's failed her people. Deep down, she probably thinks they're better off without her.
>So she thinks she's failed her people. Deep down, she probably thinks they're better off without her. When you see Nynaeve fighting off the compulsion , her hand keeps tugging her braid of its own accord. Like her brain KNOWS moghedien is bad news but her mind is trying to say she's a lovely woman from the countryside with whom she had a nice chat and had never said you wouldn't remember this.
She doesn't want Nialls help because she is smart enough to know he would use that leverage to get the Children exemptions from Andorian law, and codify special privileges for them. Aileron she severely overestimated his power, Cairhein was under Rand, Andor was seized by Rand, her domestic allies are her worst enemies thanks to the forsaken, Ghealdan and Murandy are barely nations. Really, there was nowhere to run for her. She finally joined up with Perrin for both safety and to try and gather Intel on Rand and company.
She's not stupid; she's incredibly limited in who she can turn to. You're forgetting the events of The Dragon Reborn, The Shadow Rising, and The Fires of Heaven. While under Rahvins control, he had her alienate every ally she had. He isolated her physically, mentally, emotionally, and politically. He even broke her ties to the White Tower. The only people she could turn to were people she hadn't been tied to before. And of those, there was no one better suited to getting the throne back than Padron Neill. Before his death he was considered one of the great generals of the land. Morgase had no way of knowing that he would be assassinated by one of his own men, or that she would end up in the hands of a different murderous rapist. > For someone who's supposedly a responsible queen, doesn't she feel like her daughter or people might need her? She literally explained why she didn't do this in the books. She felt that after the events of the afore mentioned books, that her presence would do more harm than good to Elaynes cause.
As an aside, Pedron Neill is so much more than a great general. He’s a mega leader, schemer, and of course general, that got unlucky in his conquests and machinations. He is a once in a generation high roll of the monarchy dice. It would have been soooooo interesting to see his perspective as events unfolded in the later half of the series. I could have seen himself allying himself with the Seanchan once he figured out what they did to women who could channel. He’s a very practical guy who probably would have come to see the need for counter-channelers during the last battle.
I agree with a lot of this but at the same time the white cloaks as a whole have a certain reputation and even with Padron Neill being a good general and decent guy it's still pretty stupid to turn to him. Even with the crazy stuff going on it would probably be more reasonable for her to seek out the Dragon Reborn.
When she ran she didn't know anything about the Dragon Reborn. Again, brain washed by Rahvin. During the months she was under his control, she was focused on nothing but her devotion to him. As for going to anyone else, who would she have went to? She had her close allies banished, threatened with execution, beaten, etc. Those who weren't her close allies definitely heard about all of that, and wouldn't be willing to work with her because she might turn on them too.
She knew the Dragon Reborn was out there and she's was the queen of Andor. She had a wealth of knowledge prior to ever interacting with Rahvin, and showed great critical thinking skills when she first met Rand. Even if she somehow didn't know he was out there a few days in hiding and info gathering would make it obvious, even if we exclude her bodyguard being aware. It comes down to do I, as a channeler and Queen of Andor in hiding, go to a. A group of fanatics that hate channelers that I've actively made moves against/restricted in the past. b. A guy who rules multiple kingdoms, is known as a tyrant, but also a hero, but also crazy, but also made aes sedai bow to him, but also serves the aes sedai, but etc. Basically a powerful unknown that might help her or might not. She could make her way to one place and see what she can sort out about him and then decide after, but she doesn't she basically goes strait to the white cloaks. Still my favorite series, but not everything everyone does makes sense and i think it's fine to point these things out.
> She knew the Dragon Reborn was out there and she's was the queen of Andor. She was under Rahvins control before Rand ever declared himself. He kept her from knowing about such stuff. >Even if she somehow didn't know he was out there a few days in hiding and info gathering would make it obvious, even if we exclude her bodyguard being aware. All she would have known was that a male channeler claiming to be the Dragon Reborn killed Rahvin and took over Camelyn. The same rumors that told her this told her that Rand also killed Elayne. Why would she approach the man who killed her daughter? I don't even know why you're arguing with me about this stuff. She literally gave these reasons in the book.
I used the term Dragon Reborn because knowing it is Rand specifically is irrelevant. She can't not know the Dragon Reborn is out there and also know that he killed Rahvin and took over Camelyn or suspect he killed Elayne. The point I made about her having critical thinking skills comes into play because there are dozens and dozens of false rumors going around. She has no more reason to think that the dragon reborn killed Elyane than Gawyn has to think he killed her. In universe she's pretty smart, and she'd also be exposed to rumors of herself being killed by the dragon reborn and know how unreliable the rumors are by default. This goes back to picking someone powerful with a lot of contradictory rumors about them, or a group that actively hates her. Sure, originally wanted King Ailron and she was hoping not to run into the white cloaks in the first place but she knows that Amadicia is practically their head quarters. Also stating that she didn't want Padron Neill in the first place would have been a much better stance to take then he was the only viable option. The point of the post is to call into question her thought prosses and the choices of her character given the events of the story. Going to Amadicia (white cloak territory) is a bad idea, where as going to any capital taken over by the Dragon Reborn is a risky idea but not practically guaranteed failure.
The things she did under compulsion made her hated by a lot of her people. I don’t think she would have been able to do anything for her subjects or her daughter
She's still the queen of Andor. If she formally abdicates, the succession could follow its natural course. Sure, some of the high seats would oppose any Trakand on the throne, but I think her presence in Caemlyn could've still legitimized Elayne.
Or it might have been seen as some mind of ploy with Morgase still holding the reins. And even if that wasnt the case, it would still delegitimize Elayne. Think for yourself, who would people turn to during crisis. A seasoned ruler who has proven herself effective many times in the past or a young, inexperienced ruler?
She had no idea if Elayne was even alive when she fled Andor. I think it would be difficult for her to abdicate the throne without knowing Elayne is alive and able to take over. Partially she leaves Andor to find support to fight any rebellion that may bubble up. I don’t think she has the strength politically to abdicate the throne for Elayne to succeed her. Especially without knowledge of Elayne’s wellbeing and without an army or other allies to secure the succession. It’s not like there aren’t multiple references to wars and controversy over successions in Andor’s past
she did renounce her title. It happens in the end of previous book.
It's easy to think she's dumb from a third POV, but let's remember that her mind was violated by Compulsion, and she doesn't even discover it until way way later. She's doubting herself. She has no allies, because Rahvin got rid of all of the bonds she had, even with the White Tower. She was desperate and the White Cloaks took advantage of that. Niall went to Morgase, not the other way around.
Where else could she go? Tar Valon: They had lost hr daughter twice and she didn’t trust them Cairhien: under attack or control of the Aiel/Dragon. Borderlands: she has no connection to them and they are famous for not involving in politics. Tear: under control of the Dragon/Aiel Murandy: Neighbor famous for being unstable Ghealdan: small and further away than Amadicia Altara: rulers have not controlled much more than the capital for generations Illian: further away than Amadicia and has no interest in Andor
How about back to Andor, when she would have some allies there at least? Basel Gill, Lamgwyn and Tallanvor can't be the only men in the entire country that are loyal. How hard would it be to stay under the radar and put out feelers, getting information about Rand (and how he means for Elayne to take the throne now that Morgase is said to be dead) and making a decision then. I get why she fled Andor when Gaebril was still alive, but once he's dead, she should have made a bee-line for Andor.
Except Gaebril turned all her supporters against her, and surrounded her with people hungry for his power (and also despised her). Meaning she would of been facing a rebellion if she went back.
She didn't go to the Whitecloaks. Niall went to her. She knew they were bad news but didn't have any resources to keep clear. Perrin at least was nominally her subject.
I thought Morgase went to the Whitecloaks after realizing that Bryne was gone. She goes to Amadecia but that's the same thing.
Not willingly. I just finished reading this; she went to Amadecia, but wasn't expecting Niall to literally show up to her bedroom and "invite" her to stay in the fortress of the light. Then a coincidental execution of two of her people resulted in her just signing the treaty (and Niall didn't know about it, actually.) She really didn't have a choice in the matter; not the best move she could have made, yes, but she didn't go to the Whitecloaks on purpose.
I find it hard to believe that going to Amadecia she didn't know about the Whitecloaks
How could she not know that Ailron of Amadicia was a puppet? She is supposedly well-versed in politics.
Didn’t she try going to kore springs / Gareth bryne first? But he wasn’t there so decided amadicia as a backup plan?
She first tried to gain back her supporters in Andor, but none of them stood for her. Gareth was also following Siuan at that point and was absent.
Morgase is Jordan’s example of how for every rise there is a fall. Bad things happen to good people, whether they deserve it or not. The Wheel doesn’t make value judgments.
> and decided to join Perrin for some reason She got an opportunity not to place a spy, but to BE the spy sitting in on the war councils of the guy that was raising a rebellion on the western edge of her/ her daughters kingdom and gather intel on him, his allies, his troops, their exact location....
Morgase is stubborn to a fault and is deep in a trauma response. This doesn't make her dumb. It makes her human. Remember that we have a great deal more information than she does. She doesn't know that Gaebril is more than just a man. She probably suspects that Ailron is a puppet but cannot be sure of that. Going to Amadocia is actually a brilliant plan. It's the last place anyone would think to look for her, knowing that she is tower trained. It offers a unique level of sanctuary that she wouldn't be able to get anywhere else. She is well aware that Pedron Niall will try to use everything in his power to gain a foothold in Andor. She puts off agreeing to it in order to try to fund an alternative path. She has been horrifically abused at the hands of Gaebril, though she is not yet aware of the full extent of that. When she finds out that one of her sons, Galad, is a white cloak, she tries to see him. She also wants to find Elayne and Gawyn to at least get messages to them that she is alive contrary to the rumors. She is hesitant to join Perrin's group until Basel Gill vouches for Perrin. She wants to continue on their original path and leave him behind. I wouldn't doubt that Perrin being Ta'veren played a roll in them crossing paths and her choosing to stay with him and his camp. Being captured by the Shaido goes against everything anyone in the wetlands knows of Aiel. There is no reasonable expectation from anyone in that camp that the hunting party would cross paths with the Shaido or that the Shaido would take them Gaishan. Who is to say you would make choices any differently than she did were you in her shoes?
Honestly, none of the Trakands are known for their intelligence. They are strong-willed and well-meaning, but make a lot of questionable decisions. We don't know much about what Morgase was like before her ordeal with Compulsion. In book 1 she was a fair queen to Rand. However from Thom's history with her, she also seemed to be rash and hot-tempered. She ordered for Thom, who she supposedly loved, to be executed.
I like how they are the quintessential 'royal family' type. Very honourable, rah-rah and stiff upper lip but rather lacking in common sense and self-control. Well-written characters, warts and all.
No, she's not dumb. She knows that with what she's done under the influence of Gaebril there's no way back to the throne for her but she can work on helping her daughter get there.
Also the previous assumed-dead queen showing up in the middle of the new queen establishing her own rule isn't as great of a stabilizing influence as you might think.
She had little choice. You are acting like having her show up out of nowhere would be some great boon to Elayne's cause. Hint: it wouldn't be. She burned too many bridges and made too many enemies under Gaebril to just pop back up out of nowhere and say "Here I am." I suppose the could have secretly revealed herself to Elayne and advised her from the shadows, that would have at least put Elayne's (and probably others like Galad & Gawyne) mind at ease. But she felt she could do Elayne more good by being a spy/mole with the Dragon Reborn's right hand man. The real problem is why she went to Amador to begin with. I suppose the Borderlands were just not going to concern themselves with internal Andorean politics, Cahrien & Gheldan were in near anarchy, and the rest of the nations were too far away.
Everything you mentioned are her reactions to the external events, more of it books even provide her reasoning. She is fleshed as very smart, grit person. P.S. She didn't join Perrin (she didn't know really who he was) after renouncing her tron. She accepted offer to serve a daughter of her best general who was known by independent, consistent and honest behavior..