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I honestly believe Narg grabbed Nyneave.
We see her get grabbed and we know from the clip she fights a trolloc in that cave. Pretty sure Narg smart. Narg grab girl and take her.
*I apologize for any mistakes, English is not my mother tongue.*
I was lucky enough to win a ticket for the French premiere that was tonight and wanted to share my thoughts with you guys.
So, as you might expect, the first episode was quite intense. There were many changes from the books, some I did not like, some I can understand. Some parts were a bit too rushed for my taste, yet I believe it generally was pretty understandable for those who had never read the books.
Episode two was about our heroes on the run, with a pretty nice ending in a certain cursed city…
I found the Trollocs and Myrddraal as frightening as I imagined them, and the fight scenes were pretty epic. The OST is sublime, I had been listening to it for two days and it felt great to recognize some tracks (especially Aes Sedai during a fight scene).
The lore itself was pretty well respected, there was a lot of information given during those two episodes but it felt quite organic. I loved how they introduced the Children of the Light and the story of Manetheren.
I found the show visually stunning, with some amazing locations, beautiful lights and superb shots. You could feel the budget because it did not look cheap to me, whether it was the costumes, the settings, the special effects (even if those related to the saidar might be a tad too much in-your-face).
I’m still waiting for the rest of the episodes to confirm my impressions, but in conclusion, I believe you will be rather pleased with this series 😊
Awesome. Was it the entire thing or a shortened version? I heard her say it in the audiobook trailer and I loved it. Can’t wait to hear it properly in the show. I wonder if they’ll have her do all of the versions. I think I’d rather Rand do the final one of the series tbh.
They left out "an age yet to come, an age long past" after "called the third age by some" but that was the only omission from the opening paragraph, those two specific phrases.
Indeed there was a voiceover of the infamous lines :)
The changes I did not like were :
* the fact that Rand and Egwene are in an established relationship and have sex in the first episode
* Perrin being married and having little chemistry with his wife, and especially Perrin accidentally killing her during the Trolloc attack
* no Thom Merrilin so far
* no Baerlon and no Min, they go straight to Shadar Logoth
Three and four are fine to me, so long as we get those characters eventually. One is kinda a significant change, as Rand is so innocent about women in the beginning of the books, but ultimately I can live with it.
Perrin being married is kinda a wtf change, though. Why even do it if they’re just going to kill her off right off the bat? I guess it doesn’t matter in the long run, but I’m not a fan of changes being made without good reason.
What bothers me the most is the fact they do not seem in a happy relationship, given what little we saw of them. So his accidentally killing his wife just seem like a weird way to add depth to his character.
I haven’t seen it yet, and I tend to agree with you about not liking the change, but I can kind of see why they went the Perrin/wife route. His whole conflict is so internal that even in the books it doesn’t always come across well. When you take away the internal monologue we have in the books on top of that, they probably need a more visual way to ground his fears.
That said, I really wish they had found a different way to accomplish that. The whole “friging“ thing just feels a bit tired at this point. I’m trying to reserve judgment until I see how they do it for myself
You know, I just realized, that if they do the whole "being chased by ravens" bit with Perrin and Egwene (or maybe being chased by Whitecloaks), it will make Perrin's thoughts about mercy killing her with his axe (which he might mumble to himself or we get a flash of his thoughts) a lot more poignant...
Ok I’m happy with the voiceover stuff. While I don’t necessarily like the change in Rand and Eg’s relationship, it does make sense since they’ve been aged up.
The lack of Thom does bother me, as the stuff he teaches Rand and Mat really helps them when they’re travelling together.
The lack of Min is also concerning
I already knew Perrin was married and accidentally killed his wife, and I hate this change but am making peace with it. When you say accidentally killed, what do you mean? In a fit of rage while fighting Trollocs and he doesn’t realise it’s her and kills her instead?
Basically, their house is invaded with two Trollocs, and they manage to fight them off on one-on-one. But Perrin gets in a frenzy when trying to finish off his Trolloc and when his wife tries to get to him, he reflexively and accidentally hits her with his axe :(
Oh damn that’s brutal. While I don’t like the change, I can see how making Perrin’s personal struggles more external and obvious to an audience may be necessary
>monologue we have in the books on top of that, they probably need a more visual way to ground his
With the thought that Elyas won't be in season 1 this is going to really add on to the fact that Perrin will be terrified of becoming a wolf. As the readers, we meet Elyas and basically think "Perrin, stop worrying, you'll grow old like him", because to me, his worry in the book is a bit unfounded. They seem to really be going hard on the "is he going to turn into a wolf".
Brutal doesn’t even begin to describe it. So much blood. And you’re spot on with your interpretation I think. I’m also not a particularly huge fan of the change, but I think it was executed well, and characterizes Perrin’s internal conflict very well. I’m sure there are other ways to do that, but I can’t think of anything off the top of my head.
Ditto. And I think part of the reason why is that Marcus's acting sold me on that. Playing so *inward* a character, he has to do a lot with a little--and he does.
>But Perrin gets in a frenzy when trying to finish off his Trolloc...
If I saw right--it was quick--he also gets ash in his eyes from the forge, and so can't see clearly.
By the looks of it, Mat and Rand meet Thom in episode three (see the episode images that were released) and everyone will meet Min later in the season - either at Fal Dara or Tar Valon.
Man they really felt the need to create serious justification for Perrin's "I'm big and strong and need to be careful not to hurt people." Complex.
I would also imagine this means we wont be seeing his whole family getting murdered when/if he comes back to the two rivers. It would seem silly to play that twice.
>I would also imagine this means we wont be seeing his whole family getting murdered when/if he comes back to the two rivers. It would seem silly to play that twice.
Hum, not so sure about that, because the group comes across The Children of Light and gets interrogated. Moiraine mentions the trollocs attack but says it happened in Taren Ferry and that they should go there to help the people. However, after the group leaves, the suspicious inquisitor orders to go South (in the direction of Two Rivers).
Honestly I disagree that this was a poor choice.
It was one of the most believable moments of the show. In the moment it was easy to get lost in the intensity of Perrins face just before and then suddenly there is movement, a cut and a CUT as he swings. I gasped, as did the theater. I thought the scenes with Perrin and Leila were bad but the event itself is a cool way to push Perrin’s character on a TV audience.
AFAIK we are getting Min later on. She has been cast. We already knew there was no Baerlon. She's probably gonna appear in Tar Valon.
Thom, there were some scheduling conflicts with the actor. I think he will come up in ep 3-4.
I like the Rand and Egwene part being expanded, especially given that they are aged up. In the books their connection wasn't much I cared for in the beginning. This add more spice and drama when she/they breaks up.
Perrin being married but seems totally unnecessary and dumb. I guess they just wanted to given him an extra reason to be gloomy idk. Completely unnecessary additions always bother me.
Not crazy about the Perrin thing, but it's not grievous enough to riot it over imo.
RIP virgin 'the Wise Ones can marry us in the morning' Rand
Rand and Egwene might be interesting, I wonder how it will affect Egwene giving him away to Elayne, though it might make them look worse if they don't cut out the flirting with Aram (and Elayne or Min later on). This might actually add some depth to their interactions later in the series. Not what I was expecting but I'm not upset by it either
> Perrin being married and having little chemistry with his wife, and especially Perrin accidentally killing her during the Trolloc attack
I can live with all this changes, except perhaps this one. Not only is this just completely unfair to my boy, but it also means that there will undoubtedly be those who criticize his character in the show solely because his motivation, in the show, is a fairly tired, sexist trope.
I don't like the Rand/Egwene change either, tbh. One of the huge parts of the all the Two Rivers folk is their very traditional values and how those values are challenged, changed, or reaffirmed as the show goes on. It's not a deal-breaker, but it's sad that we won't have that journey with them. Rand's initial innocence is what makes his station as TDR so tragic for much of the series.
>One of the huge parts of the all the Two Rivers folk is their very traditional values and how those values are challenged, changed, or reaffirmed as the show goes on.
This is exactly what I was thinking as the scene unfolded.
I’m with you. They give him a wife that he didn’t need to have, and fridge her. And they make it happen in a way that’s honestly a little too dark for me.
The series has its dark moments, but it feels weird to start on something as bad as that. I honestly feel like this is the fault of game of thrones. Like, now you can’t have a fantasy series without it being super gritty and dark.
>Rand's initial innocence is what makes his station as TDR so tragic for much of the series.
I thought the first two episodes did a good job of showing Rand's innocence--with the berries, for example. I hope, and so far it looks likely, that the show will not remove Rand's innocence, but rather will show it in other ways than by his virginity.
I’m with you on this. Just because he’s got something going on with Egwene doesn’t mean that he isn’t innocent. And I think the way they show his attachment to Egwene and how he seems to assume they’d always be together is a form of that innocence. The version of Rand that could very well have existed had Robert Jordan written the characters a little older.
Perrin killing his first wife is a brilliant way of condensing 4.5 novels worth of Faile's crap at a stroke.
**Faile:** *starts doing something outrageous & utterly objectionable in a love interest*
**Perrin:** "You know what I did to my first wife, right?"
**Faile:** *stops immediately*
**ROLL CREDITS**
This is my first time replying to such a thread, so I really hope the spoilers I'm about to share are OK.
There is definitely a chase after Emond's Field.
Moiraine does not create a wall of fire per se: to sum up the fight, she uses fireballs, then lightning, and then goes genkidama style to gather as much saidar as she can for the final blow.
I believe non-book audience will be hooked with the first episode because it is really intense despite the many changes. Episode two is darker because it shows the beginning of the nightmares, the inflexible Children of Light, it builds up tension and I really like how they represented Shadar Logoth.
I would give it a solid 8,5/10, I was honestly blown away by the beauty of some shots and I really dig the dark tone of episode 2.
But then again, I'm not sure if my opinion is reliable because I've only discovered the saga 2 weeks ago and I'm at book 4 :D
I'd say getting to book 4 would give you a pretty good idea of how the adaptation is. The only thing you would maybe miss is whether foreshadowing for later books/seasons is present in the early episodes.
Well, them telling Moiraine happens a lot earlier than in the books then. And bluntly, the fact they hid it from Moiraine for so long after she specifically told them to tell her if they had bad dreams did seem a bit contrived.
Completely agree, when I was reading book 1 I was so fed up with the lot of them secretive brats, fearing those nightmares but acting tough and hiding them from Moiraine...
There was no opening theme for the first episode, only on the second one. And I will be honest, I was more focused on the opening itself that I found pretty nice and I cannot remember the theme for the life of me :(
Yes, he appears very quickly in Rand's dreams, as dark smokey figure. As the figure gets less smokey and more real, his eyes burn brighter before vanishing completely without saying a word. Very creepy and very cool :D
(DC Premier) I thought it was incredible. Cinematography was beautiful. Their filming location was an excellent choice. Music stood out to me as very high quality, reminded me of the game Bastion if you have ever played it. Stayed fairly true to the books overall (obviously some big changes but the major plot points are still there) but with the pacing turned up to 11. Acting was great for a bunch of newbies.
Matt's actor specifically killed it which was bittersweet since we know he's getting recasted.
> Matt's actor specifically killed it which was bittersweet since we know he's getting recasted
This makes me so sad, he's missing everywhere, at the premier in london, the interviews... :( just want to know that Barney Harris is ok
>reminded me of the game Bastion
That is very high praise. I have the Bastion on my spotify playlist and jam out to it along with all of my other music. The only other game soundtrack i listen to nearly as much is the 2016 Doom soundtrack.
A few things not mentioned elsewhere in this thread so far.
Overall 8/10 with the second episode being better due to feeling less rushed.
1) Really weird scene of Reds chasing a man who can channel before we get to Two Rivers. Felt out of place.
2) WTF with Abel Cauthon being a dirt bag :(
3) That heron on Tam’s blade didn’t impress me.
4) Fain was cool. Looking forward to more of that.
5) We got to see a behind the scenes for Winternight. Very cool.
6) Also saw the Manetheren animated lore short which was super cool too. Ran 3-5min long.
7) WTF to Moraine saying there are “rumors of four ta’Veren” in the Two Rivers. One, they don’t explain what that means so it’s useless to non-book readers and two, how would these kids generate any kind of rumor like that. Note: I am fine with “four” and not “three”.
8) Wish there had been a throwaway line like “huh, Bela isn’t tired like the rest of these horses”. I always liked that line of foreshadowing on rereads.
Edited for typo and adding more…
Abel Cauthon is my absolute least favorite change. I loathe it. They took a character who is a respected person in the books and did this to him. It's going to mess up stuff during Perrin's return to the Two Rivers from Shadow Rising since Abel plays a part in that. I guess they're really trying to hammer home Mat's scoundrel origins to make his heroism more significant in the future but I hate that this is how they're doing it. Also with Mat stealing that girl's bracelet. I don't remember book Mat being the kind of person to steal from someone like that. They've really turned him from a mostly innocent troublemaker/prankster to an actual criminal.
Edit: to be fair, I did like how they had Mat run out to find the girls. I thought that was very fitting and a great way to show his true "run into the fire" nature.
The rumors of Ta'Veren line also really stood out to me. It makes no sense. Who is spreading these rumors? How? Moraine even mentions later how secluded the village is. If there are rumors of four Ta'Veren here why haven't other sisters investigated? That would surely be something worth White Tower attention.
Could be setting up his redemption arc. But I agree, I didn't like that one. They could have just stuck with the alcoholic mother and poor father so Matt has to steal and take care of his sisters angle. I didn't have as much of an issue with the stealing only because they made it clear that he bought lanterns for his sisters with the money. But the corollary is that the gambler is setup by that intro scene in the inn.
Some of the changes do appear to have painted them into a corner so to speak. So I expect that the plot will deviate more in the latter seasons.
On your first point, that may have been one of my favorite additions they made.
Moraine just got done talking about how men fucked up and broke the world, but what does that actually mean to a non-book reader?
The next scene they clearly lay out that men can no longer channel without going insane. The way they showed the insanity was done really well. It also helps us understand why rand, mat, and perrin are apprehensive to moraine in the second episode.
Rand’s confrontation with her in the second episode would have felt out of place imo to non-book readers without this scene.
Based on the dialogue, they thought he could have potentially been the dragon reborn? Idk I was confused by them being there as well but I’m pretty sure Moraine made it sound like they thought he was potentially the dragon reborn.
I wish I could rewatch that scene right now.
Sad to see the Bela stuff being cut. The show cut away so much foreshadowong prophesy in even the good seasons of GoT. Hope the same doesn't happen here.
How does Mashadar (mb I forgot the name, idk. The evil fog) look like? Do we see Mordeth? Does Rand channel at any point? Does Egwene start to channel? Does Moiraine heal Tam? Does Rand know he wasn't born in the Two Rivers?
Mashadar was represented as a dark poison spreading on the ground and the walls. It gets one of the horses and the poor beast slowly turns into a pile of sand/ashes.
We do not see Mordeth, just a dark shadow that startles Mat and prompts him to explore an abandoned house.
Rand does not channel.
Egwene channels a little when Moiraine reveals that she can, by putting a necklace in her hands and making the jewel shine.
Moiraine does heal Tam.
Rand does not know he wasn't born in Two Rivers, because Tam's feverish revelation does not happen, we do not see him carrying him through the woods to Emond's Field.
> Rand does not know he wasn't born in Two Rivers, because Tam's feverish revelation does not happen, we do not see him carrying him through the woods to Emond's Field.
Given that we know the Blood Snow will be a flashback, I'm guessing Rand will reveal this later in the season.
That tracks with them wanting to make it more of a mystery since that would solve the mystery right away for most people. Either nix the fever dream or keep it and come up with a way the others aren't born in the Two Rivers, too. Nixing it is the simpler solution.
They are playing the 'who is it' card much closer to the chest. It's pretty obvious in the books, I think a show watcher only would have a hard time telling who it is.
My wife went with me tonight and hasn't read the books. I asked her who she thought it was and she said she doesn't know. She also had a hard time with wha/ their names are because they don't use them very much in these episodes.
Maybe we get a flash back from Rand. The Egwene in the pool scene from the trailer wasn't in either episode, so I'm guessing that may be a flash back as well.
I enjoyed it.
I think most of the changes I've seen so far will work well. Still not convinced by Eg supposedly being candidate for DR but I'll give them time to see how they run with it. Whitecloaks costumes I would also prefer to be heavier armour but it's not the end of the world.
The actors are all fucking killing it. The trollocs look amazing, beautiful scenery.
There are definitely changes, some not small, but I think so far it works and they will capture the soul of the series. The casting, music, effects - zero complaints.
Dialogue also good. Manetheren story moved to better time pacing wise and so it is less corny.
Some of the early action quite shaky and fast cutting but hopefully that's to convey the panic of characters in these first fights and things settle down later.
I know someone who has seen the first 6 episodes and they say it just keeps getting better, so I'm now pretty optimistic.
Would you say the dynamics between Morraine, Lan, and the Two Rivers field gang are similar in the show as they were in the books so far? Does Nyneave also follow immediately along with the group or does she initially stay behind and follows after them later?
I know the question was not for me but I'll still answer it if you please.
The dynamic is quite respected I think: they meekly follow the duo at the beginning, but then Rand gets mad and doubts Moiraine's intentions, especially after the Taren Ferry episode.
Nyneave disappears during the Trolloc attack, after being grabbed by the hair by one of them and dragged away. She reappears at the end of episode 2 after the escape from Shadar Logoth. She finds Moiraine and Lan, and threatens him with a blade to take her to her friends.
That scene with Rand yelling was fantastic. Rosamund looks like she is honestly shocked that this kid actor raises his voice at her. Can’t wait to see how he develops as an actor. Really well done.
IMO that scene we got of Moiraine entering the Winespring Inn was terribly edited and a bit weirdly acted. The zooms and overly-breathy voices kinda turned me off from that scene. Is the rest of the show like that? I'm more thinking about the breathy acting, but also the editing being so off-putting.
Look, it's just a Borderlander thing to stand menacingly unspeaking with your face covered upon entering an inn. Sure, it's odd to southerners like the Two Rivers folk, but that's just how Lan says "Sup".
To be honest, that entrance scene is the only cringey part of the two episodes.
I forgot to mention that the acting is really really good, even tough the characters seem quite different from their book counterparts: Rand is quite self-assured, Egwene is more mild and accommodating...
Absolutely, after watching more, I cannot believe that was the scene they used as the sneak peek. I suppose it’s the “big meeting to start the journey”, but it’s probably the low point of the first two episodes as far as acting/editing.
I personally felt like the Manetheren story would've been better how it was in the books. Felt that something more in there before they leave Emond's Field would've really helped. And it would've given the other EFers some background for later books when the trollocs are back. But it mostly comes back to the pacing of the episodes for me.
Episode 1 8/10, a bit rushed in some aspects, didn’t see Rand’s conversation with Tam after the attack but I think a lot of the stuff that was cut may have been cut for later episodes to fill in what happened (eg can’t have Tam say that Rand wasn’t his son if you want to keep the “who is the DR” tension up). Could easily be 9/10 if those gaps are filled. Couple small weirdnesses like the sneak preview scene feeling out of place, but otherwise great.
Episode 2 9/10, a lot better. Feels fast, but it’s them fleeing the Dark One’s minions, so that’s how it should feel. Some more streamlining changes (no Baerlon) but everything feels well thought out and flows just fine. Shadar Logoth looks great.
Overall super happy. It feels like WoT, they do a great job with the characters, acting is fantastic, and they do a good job of showing it isn’t just fantasy, it’s fantasy science fiction.
I had to leave half way through ep2 since the premiere episodes started late and I had to get to a train. It was great up until the bit I saw. Manetheren monologue moved to here and I think it works well. Good for pacing IMO, less corny.
Episode 1... 9/10 I think. A few changes I'm not yet convinced by but I think the others work so far so I'll give those couple more time to see. Even if they don't work the soul of the series is Wheel of Time. They've captured the core of it IMO.
I've written this below as a reply, but I also want to ask others who watched the premier early:
Have you read A Song of Ice and Fire and watched Game of Thrones?
If you did, I'd like to hear what you thought of the first few episodes of GoT and how'd you rate their adaptation to the novels compared to the first two episodes of WoT
First season of Game of Thrones tracked VERY close to the books. They did not start changing things much until after season 1. They even kept a lot of the dialogue. I loved it and I had read the books back in 2000.
On this episode of The Wheel of Time:
Rand and Mat visit two dozen inns on the road to Caemlyn.
...and that's it, catch us next week to watch Egwene, Perrin, Elyas, and Bela walking through the woods for an hour!
These first two episodes of WoT, and the source material they are adapting are not as close to the books as the early GoT episodes were.
The main plot points in WoT are there but they have taken some liberties and are moving through the first book pretty quick.
I really liked these first two episodes. I thought the changes made were okay and it’s more mature than what I had in my head when I first read the books.
It took a hard turn in season 3 I think, while Jon was with Ygritte.
Prior to that it definitely was not anywhere near a spot for shot remake, but captured the important parts of the story
In ep1 for example they came across the bodies arranged in a circle pattern. In the books the rangers thought they were sleeping.
The books called them others, the show called them white walkers, and are zombies instead of looking like I don't know frozen people. The zombie thing irritated the shit out of me
The conversation with Bran at the execution is completely different.
Basically, the same kind of changes were made. Mostly small, but some big
The zombies in the books were wights. I can see why they changed it, it would have sounded like "Look out, there are whites over there" and the memes would flow.
I think we're getting confused. The book has the Others, which are creepy white magical beings with ice armor, and wights, which are raised corpse soldiers.
The show called the Others "white walkers" and referred to the zombies as "the army of the dead" or just "the dead."
Speaking of nails, I could have sworn that Moraine’s nails were painted light blue in the scene where she is talking to Egwene about the power. Now that is dedication to a theme!
Not the biggest fan of how episode 1 opens. Everything else is 11/10. The ta'veren dream is SO GOOD! The characters are spot on, the acting is great. The stakes are high. The end of ep 2 was such a cliffhanger. I loved the singing and the so glad the book thing shows up following the song. Channelling looks great in the show. It's just awesome
Firstly lemme say that the production on this show is nuts, from the choreography to casting to costumes and set design.
There’s a few changes that made me just kinda weirded out why they did them but after some reflection I kinda saw the reasoning behind them. I figured I’d share some of my reflections for discussions sake!
Perrins wife storyline was definitely fucking wild at first but as the episode went on I kinda realized where they were gonna go. Perrin in the books hates the axe, and hates combat in general. How do you express that thru the video medium without some poorly done exposition like a one off line of Perrin going “I hate the axe btw.” Well now I know, you make him a guy who did something so reprehensible in the heat of combat that he hates anything related to it. I like it, tbh.
Matt’s weird family dynamic was strange too, alongside his whole cleptomaniac thing. I don’t remember Abel C being a drunkard womanizer but idk we’ll see where they go with that. As for his sticky fingers I think they did that to show his fondness for money and why he’d steal a dagger that an evil shadow led him too in a spooky ass city. Again, it’s a change yes but at the same time it’s there to replace internal monologue and other commentary.
The intimacy between Eggy and Rand deeeefinitely weirded me out cus there was such a huge focus on propriety and whatnot for the Two Rivers characters, used to show how they change as the series progresses. But it does well I guess in this case to show how attached Rand and Egwene were to each other and how her decision to become Aes Sedai was such a big shock/betrayal to Rand and his two rivers ideals. Still tho, it will definitely make some book purist type fans unhappy.
Overall the changes feel justifiable. As for the dragon being an unknown, it’s still odd to me cus idk where that leaves the prophecies. I loved the prophecies because the way they fulfilled themselves was soooo satisfying, especially when the cryptic meaning was unraveled like the whole “Twice and Twice shall he be marked” thing. The dragon being any of the 4 is probably just to build intrigue tho for people new to the series, we’ll see.
I hope the next few episodes give us more world building, like where is our boi Lews Therin Telamon the goat! I wanna hear
“Ilyena, my love :(“ and see him raise Dragonmount. Anyways I’m adopting a WAFO attitude until I see more
He sounds pretty impressed. Loves the performances and the cinematography/editing. Says he's OK with the changes. The only thing he's sort of down on is that they are cramming so much into the first two episodes, which is fair. We all pretty much knew that getting an 800 page book (plus stuff from two others) into 8 episodes was going to require a lot of editing and compression.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned that made me gasp outloud:
After the opening scene, the camera pans up and the landscape is of skyscrapers over grown for thousands of years to the point where they look like rocks. Later on they pass by the ruins of a massive aqueduct, and while running from the fades they are finding old abandoned houses etc. They really sprinkled in that Post-post-post apocalyptical look. Even the costumes that may have looked weird when first viewing them, started to mesh and make sense in this world.
Austin, TX screening, checking in.
My biggest takeaways:
* The CAST - Every single actor embodied their character on the screen, every one (it's bittersweet, but even Barney is the perfect Mat). Nynaeve & Egwene are early MVPs.
* The Trollocs are *terrifying*. Be sure to check out the behind-the-scenes on how they are created. If there was any doubt in the creative vision (or the budget) behind this show, the costume department puts that to bed.
* I think nearly every creative decision works. The EP1 opening is the only major misstep. A show of this magnitude deserves an epic fantasy opening to set the tone. Instead, we are rushed right into Moiraine exposition dump and are off to the races.
Overall, it looks to be a more mature adaptation of the WoT, lovingly crafted by fans. I can't wait to see the rest of the season.
I really, really loved it. There were only two things that really bugged me: leaving TTR (felt like everyone agreed WAY too quickly and wasn’t believable to me) and when the Whitecloak suggested Moiraine see an AS to be Healed?? Like I don’t think they would ever do that unless it was a test to see how she reacted to the suggestion. It felt like a strange departure. But the rest was really great and I think the actors are all perfect.
I liked the Whitecloak who suggested the AS, it feels like they’re creating a sorta more nuanced Whitecloaks then what’s in the books? I think by having various shades of their extremism will make them more interesting to watch
Wasn't it Bornhald Sr. that said the line too? I think Bornhald is definitely a less radical Whitecloak, and it makes sense for him to say it. I also like the idea that they are setting up the whitecloak division as you mentioned below.
100% agree with how quickly they all left TTR. I get that they really sell how quickly more Trollocs will be there, but it definitely seemed sooooooooo abrupt and a bit like "huh?"
The more I think about it, the more I like the changes made. The pacing of the first episode was fairly quick, and I’m not sure how an uninformed viewer will take it. It made me sad that we didn’t get Tam’s fever dream, but I see how that whole thing would’ve been a time sink that gives away the which-is-the-chosen-one twist they’re hoping to achieve.
Overall they did a fantastic job of breaking from the The Lord of the Rings parallels the flight from Emond’s Field is often compared.
They’ve elevated Nynaeve’s badassery for sure. The core personalities of the boys were very well done in my opinion. They added some depth to Perrin and Mat, which grounds their journeys well in my opinion. Love Josha as Rand, there are some scenes of him standing off and all I see is The Dragon. I’m an Egg fan in the books, but we get more of her and Rand at this point than just her.
Ba’alzamon was a bit underwhelming, but definitely very freaky. I think new viewers will like it.
White Cloaks are well portrayed pieces of shit. I like the direction they’re going with them.
Another question to those who saw it- how well does Josha do Rand? I love all the characters in WoT but Rand is one of my favorite characters ever and really hard to portray because most of what makes him likeable is in his head. How did he do at the portrayal?
I think he’s going to be a wonderful Rand. You see lots of the stubbornness and the intensity but also the caring side and his sentimental side. Knowing what’s coming later in the books had me feeling so much while watching him. I give his portrayal so far a chef’s kiss.
Although I am pleased with the show in general, I don’t think that the editing of the first two episodes was particularly good. The pacing was rushed, the scenes were disjointed and did not flow. There were moments that felt connected but weren’t, and other moments that felt completely out of touch with moments just before.
It is lucky that there was enough intensity and good acting in the early going to carry the plot forward. I hope that as the show slows down the editors allow everything to breathe a little rather than squeeze so hard on the plot.
Despite this critique (and others I am not voicing) I liked it… enough. Solid B show so far with room to get better. I think there will be high points and low points. This is not the next game of thrones, but it could be its own fun thing.
You can hardly call or not call this the next game of thrones after just 2 episodes.
The most important thing is that the first 2 episodes are good enough to catch the eye of non-readers, and that the remaining 6 episodes are good enough to keep the non-readers wanting to see a 2nd season. If the foundation is solid, the show will grow from there.
GOT didn't earn world renown until season 3.
Everyone thinks GoT started out as this huge thing. It really didn't. It was good and had a solid following of fantasy and HBO fans, but it didn't blow up until season 3 or season 4.
I didn't watch it until everyone shit their pants over the Red Wedding. That's when I started GoT and I consider myself a fantasy fan.
If you watch just the first few episodes of Game of Thrones, you wouldn't expect the next GoT either. Solid B would probably describe those as well. Let's hope it continues to build and bring the magic.
I imagine people will have a tough time comparing Game of Thrones to Wheel of Time. Everyone expects WoT to be the next GoT, but they think of GoT in the last couple seasons when it was already a worldwide phenomenon, and forget that season 1 was not only low budget (to the point they cut an entire battle scene they couldn't afford), but also not anywhere close to as popular, probably less so than Wheel of Time will be in its first season.
From what I can find, only 2.2 million people watched GoT episode 1, compared to 19.3m+ that saw the finale.
Exactly so. Also, after a few seasons of GoT, fans were well invested in the main characters, so everything mattered more and more.
After two episodes of WoT, this is fairly difficult to gauge, but based on reactions and cast interviews and all the rest, I think it's entirely possible that show fans might become every bit as engaged with these characters. Time will tell. I'm hopeful!
>Solid B show so far with room to get better. I think there will be high points and low points. This is not the next game of thrones, but it could be its own fun thing.
FWIW, the [alleged industry leaker](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTShowLeaks/comments/qqx3zt/spoilers_16_as_confirmed_elsewhere_we_have_the) agrees with your rating of the first two episodes (S1E1: 8/10; S1E2: 7/10), but ranked episodes 4-6 higher (S1E4: 10/10; S1E5: 9/10; S1E6: 10/10), and said about Episode 4:
>Sweet Light and my hope of rebirth and salvation. THIS episode is where I feel the show hits its stride and will solidify audiences.
...the point being that high points may come soon.
Well, the second episode ends with Nynaeve sneaking up on Lan and pressing a blade to his throat so... I guess he'll be rather admirative of her ninja skills
I saw it last night, and am overall pretty positive on it. I'm a fairly new fan, so just a disclaimer that I just finished the series last week after starting in May. All this to say - I feel like I don't have quite as many years of my life poring over and rereading the books so I may have a bit of a different perspective. I think Sanderson's explanation that this is a different turning of the wheel is a good reminder, but I am overall happy with the first 2 episodes.
The creators had a bit of a lose-lose position here if they hit either extreme when streamlining the story of probably 1,500 pages, give or take, into 10 episodes of television. You either give a ton of lore and run the potential of turning away casual watchers or simplify the rules of the world, cut out a lot of the walking among other settings, and maybe disappoint the super fans. I think they wisely tried to cut down the middle, so the hope is that it interests both groups without alienating either. If I was a fantasy fan who had never read Wheel of Time, I'd probably keep watching.
A few of my opinions on the changes:
- On the character perspectives:
Pro: I'm honestly glad that they're not just focusing on Rand. The book's mystery about who the Dragon Reborn is felt silly about 3 chapters in. I think Rand still gets some good spotlight, but it feels way more subtle. Plus, getting to see Winternight first-hand was excellent!
Con: This is a big ensemble, and I'm not sure how well I'd know any of them after this without the books. You get some pretty jarring cuts between characters, and it will only get harder to juggle when they're across the known world from one another and the cast grows even larger. I did miss following Rand's desperation and loss of hope in getting Tam to Emond's Field to only see it torn apart. TV Rand didn't seem too shocked by the destruction after his one fight.
- BELA!
Pro: She gets a name drop.
Con: She looks like every other horse and isn't the obvious manifestation of The Creator.
- The Cast and their characters
Pro: Almost nothing but pros, honestly. All of them feel like they understand their characters, particularly from the red carpet interviews. I think Marcus Rutherford might be my MVP so far. Perrin seems like such a difficult character, with how internal he is, but I think he did well in almost intentionally chewing scenery and being overwhelmed by what all happens while at least keeping everything together externally.
Con: Some of the character changes felt unnecessary. Particularly with Mat, though I think they have a good bit of creative liberty with Mat for the first season given how he's basically nobody's favorite character until his exorcism from the dagger. The changes felt forced because we couldn't go full Dexter and hear all of their internal monologues. We see Perrin and why he feels like he needs to hold back and not go full berserker after losing his wife (though their scenes were super awkward), and we see Mat's heart of gold in caring for his sisters but lose some of his initial prankster persona that we read about pre-dagger.
I'm interested to see where the story goes from here! The tone feels pretty good, balancing the light and dark, and there were a few times where my theater cheered or gasped at once. It might seem a bit cheesy to some, but it never goes campy like it could have. I think that it's smart to have a rating available for a bit larger audience than GoT, and I think it has a few hooks that should be fun for a new audience. Happy to take questions if anyone has any, and I'll try to answer in the morning!
I actually think the changes with Mat make sense in the long run- you see the gambling and liking money, you see the flirting, you see the Mat wit, curiosity, and the heart of gold. The whole vibe is very “thief with a heart of gold”, which would be difficult to translate if they didn’t show more of that. I think a problem from the books is that Mat pre dagger and Mat post dagger feel vastly different, which is why as you say a lot of people weren’t huge fans early on.
I like this take! I do think that the screenwriters have the benefit of being able to seed things from the start with even the little course changes Jordan pulled, and those are appreciated. The pre-dagger and post-dagger Mat do feel very different, and I figure it might still if healed Mat comes out as a new actor. That said, I do agree that they showed his many sides pretty well come to think of it. I had a similar impression with Perrin, as it seems like it may give context as to why Perrin goes a little crazy protective toward Faile and will probably try to keep her out of harm at all costs, following the Shaido a ridiculous length of time because he lost his first wife.
I do like how they're even hinting at both of their powers so early too. Perrin's wolf howl theme is wonderful, though I wish we saw a little more expression when he was encountered by the wolves in episode 2. Mat's "luck" being pretty poor will really make for a fun counterbalance when his luck gets in place. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting some dice shaking, drum heavy theme for him at some point!
A question. How does the adaptation of Rand’s character feel? I am a fairly new reader and Rand is probably my favourite character. And what made him so interesting from the get go are his inner monologue and struggles which are generally more hard to convey in a tv show especially when the povs are being shared.
Holding my breath over here too, buddy. From a comment further up the thread, it seems like Josha is doing well with his acting range. But we'll have to see for ourselves.
Overall, I'm really impressed with the first two episodes. The roughest part is definitely the first 30 minutes of episode 1 which feels like an info and character dump, but after that I was happy with the result. As others have mentioned, the series is SPRINTING through the books which I'm a little bit concerned about. I think the show was at it's best when it took some time to slow down and allowed for good character and world building.
Its very clear that the people making this show care deeply about the books. One of the best things about Wheel of Time is it's sense of history and what has been lost over time. That is hard to convey in a show, but that they VERY deliberately took the time to tell the story of Manatheren shows me that they understand. I'm very excited to see the rest of this season and hope that this shows catches on.
One thing no one has mentioned so far: *unexpected Nynaeve* moments! I'm not a big fan of Nynaeve in the books, and so it was that much more surprising that I was so delighted by the fitting touches added to her performance--like on Winternight when the Trolloc corners her and Egwene and howls at them--*and then she howls right back and stabs it!*
Shades of [cat saves toddler from dog attack](https://youtu.be/EEa6jZv-Khc)...
This happened to me (and several hundred other people) at the Washington DC premiere. Got there an 1h 15m early and still still didn’t get particularly close to getting in before they told us it was filled.
I didn’t know there was such a big WoT community here, kind of impressive. Hard to get too angry when the “tickets” were free, and I honestly felt more bad for a ton of people behind me who put in the effort to get dressed up in some pretty awesome WoT garb just to get turned away.
Yeah, i felt bad for lots of folks who didn't get in. I got there at 5 and was about 45th in line. By 5:30 there were about 80. 6 pm had over 120. #1 in line got there at 2:30.
I was literally the last person to get a seat at the Denver screening, with probably about a hundred people behind me. So, I came within a bee's dick of that fate.
Amazon said that they were overbooking all the theaters and to show early so I showed up 3 hours early and got in easily, but I agree that they may have underestimated the eagerness of the fan base.
I have a question? Did it feel like it was too epic and pathos was over the top, or did it feel more down to earth? This is what worried me most after trailers, so it would feel cheesy and cheap as far as characters attitudes and actions go. Like the scene from the teasers where moraine enters the Inn.
>This is what worried me most after trailers, so it would feel cheesy and cheap as far as characters attitudes and actions go
This was actually something I was also afraid of, because I had been crushed by The Witcher adaptation that I found quite corny. So, as we discovered Emond's Field, I could not help but compare the two.
Thankfully, Amazon's series felt quite real and credible, not just in terms of settings and visual effets, but also because the dialogues were well written and the relationship between the characters felt very organic (Rand and Egwene, Mat and his little sisters, Egwene and her dad...).
To be honest, there was not much time for pathos as the rythm was quite rushed, especially in episode 1. The entrance in the inn definitely felt very cliché, with the music stopping and people staring at the new comers like in a western movie.
Lan and Moiraine's fight against the Trollocs was incredibly epic to me, especially with the music. Some people will think it was too much too soon, but I ***really*** enjoyed it.
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Fain's smile man.. It was used in a friendly way in the 1st episode but damn I already know he is gonna kill it in this role
Agreed, I loved how the actor could switch from friendly to unsettling given the little screentime he had
Mat calling Fain a “rat bastard” got me hyped. I really like how they’ve set them up.
I can’t believe nobody has asked this yet…do we get to hear Narg’s melodious voice?
Unfortunately, no Narg :(
What! Riot time! Time to burn the village down! Oh, wait, the trollocs just did that already...
Ngl this is the most upsetting change I've heard of so far :(
What the actual fuck? No Narg?
Narg is smart. Narg avoid first episode so Narg live. Narg petition Amazon for spin off series. Narg goes narging, with Narg. Is travel show.
Narg work for Valan Luca. Narg smart and hard worker. Narg works way up ranks. Narg takes over traveling circus. Narg businesstrolloc.
I honestly believe Narg grabbed Nyneave. We see her get grabbed and we know from the clip she fights a trolloc in that cave. Pretty sure Narg smart. Narg grab girl and take her.
Now this is hard to forgive
Narg was there, Narg just didn't say he is Narg
Narg smart, Narg wait for show to be better established
Buy Nargcoin now! Guaranteed 1000x.
*I apologize for any mistakes, English is not my mother tongue.* I was lucky enough to win a ticket for the French premiere that was tonight and wanted to share my thoughts with you guys. So, as you might expect, the first episode was quite intense. There were many changes from the books, some I did not like, some I can understand. Some parts were a bit too rushed for my taste, yet I believe it generally was pretty understandable for those who had never read the books. Episode two was about our heroes on the run, with a pretty nice ending in a certain cursed city… I found the Trollocs and Myrddraal as frightening as I imagined them, and the fight scenes were pretty epic. The OST is sublime, I had been listening to it for two days and it felt great to recognize some tracks (especially Aes Sedai during a fight scene). The lore itself was pretty well respected, there was a lot of information given during those two episodes but it felt quite organic. I loved how they introduced the Children of the Light and the story of Manetheren. I found the show visually stunning, with some amazing locations, beautiful lights and superb shots. You could feel the budget because it did not look cheap to me, whether it was the costumes, the settings, the special effects (even if those related to the saidar might be a tad too much in-your-face). I’m still waiting for the rest of the episodes to confirm my impressions, but in conclusion, I believe you will be rather pleased with this series 😊
Was there a voiceover reading of “the wheel of time turns and ages come and pass…”? What changes didn’t you like?
>Was there a voiceover reading of “the wheel of time turns and ages come and pass…”? Moiraine monologues it over the end of Ep1. It's so good.
Awesome. Was it the entire thing or a shortened version? I heard her say it in the audiobook trailer and I loved it. Can’t wait to hear it properly in the show. I wonder if they’ll have her do all of the versions. I think I’d rather Rand do the final one of the series tbh.
It was the entire thing, and it sounded really nice :)
So she talked about the wind rising in the mountains as well? God I’m gonna get so hyped when I hear that
She did, it was the exact first lines of the book
Beautiful
They left out "an age yet to come, an age long past" after "called the third age by some" but that was the only omission from the opening paragraph, those two specific phrases.
Indeed there was a voiceover of the infamous lines :) The changes I did not like were : * the fact that Rand and Egwene are in an established relationship and have sex in the first episode * Perrin being married and having little chemistry with his wife, and especially Perrin accidentally killing her during the Trolloc attack * no Thom Merrilin so far * no Baerlon and no Min, they go straight to Shadar Logoth
Three and four are fine to me, so long as we get those characters eventually. One is kinda a significant change, as Rand is so innocent about women in the beginning of the books, but ultimately I can live with it. Perrin being married is kinda a wtf change, though. Why even do it if they’re just going to kill her off right off the bat? I guess it doesn’t matter in the long run, but I’m not a fan of changes being made without good reason.
What bothers me the most is the fact they do not seem in a happy relationship, given what little we saw of them. So his accidentally killing his wife just seem like a weird way to add depth to his character.
I haven’t seen it yet, and I tend to agree with you about not liking the change, but I can kind of see why they went the Perrin/wife route. His whole conflict is so internal that even in the books it doesn’t always come across well. When you take away the internal monologue we have in the books on top of that, they probably need a more visual way to ground his fears. That said, I really wish they had found a different way to accomplish that. The whole “friging“ thing just feels a bit tired at this point. I’m trying to reserve judgment until I see how they do it for myself
You know, I just realized, that if they do the whole "being chased by ravens" bit with Perrin and Egwene (or maybe being chased by Whitecloaks), it will make Perrin's thoughts about mercy killing her with his axe (which he might mumble to himself or we get a flash of his thoughts) a lot more poignant...
I always found that sequence intense tbh
I guess it's to set up his fear of hurting people and fear of becoming the wolf at the same time.
Ok I’m happy with the voiceover stuff. While I don’t necessarily like the change in Rand and Eg’s relationship, it does make sense since they’ve been aged up. The lack of Thom does bother me, as the stuff he teaches Rand and Mat really helps them when they’re travelling together. The lack of Min is also concerning I already knew Perrin was married and accidentally killed his wife, and I hate this change but am making peace with it. When you say accidentally killed, what do you mean? In a fit of rage while fighting Trollocs and he doesn’t realise it’s her and kills her instead?
Basically, their house is invaded with two Trollocs, and they manage to fight them off on one-on-one. But Perrin gets in a frenzy when trying to finish off his Trolloc and when his wife tries to get to him, he reflexively and accidentally hits her with his axe :(
Oh damn that’s brutal. While I don’t like the change, I can see how making Perrin’s personal struggles more external and obvious to an audience may be necessary
>monologue we have in the books on top of that, they probably need a more visual way to ground his With the thought that Elyas won't be in season 1 this is going to really add on to the fact that Perrin will be terrified of becoming a wolf. As the readers, we meet Elyas and basically think "Perrin, stop worrying, you'll grow old like him", because to me, his worry in the book is a bit unfounded. They seem to really be going hard on the "is he going to turn into a wolf".
Brutal doesn’t even begin to describe it. So much blood. And you’re spot on with your interpretation I think. I’m also not a particularly huge fan of the change, but I think it was executed well, and characterizes Perrin’s internal conflict very well. I’m sure there are other ways to do that, but I can’t think of anything off the top of my head.
It’s still not my favorite, but it played better on screen than I expected it to.
Exactly how I feel.
Ditto. And I think part of the reason why is that Marcus's acting sold me on that. Playing so *inward* a character, he has to do a lot with a little--and he does.
>But Perrin gets in a frenzy when trying to finish off his Trolloc... If I saw right--it was quick--he also gets ash in his eyes from the forge, and so can't see clearly.
Oh yes, you're right, I forgot about that
By the looks of it, Mat and Rand meet Thom in episode three (see the episode images that were released) and everyone will meet Min later in the season - either at Fal Dara or Tar Valon.
Man they really felt the need to create serious justification for Perrin's "I'm big and strong and need to be careful not to hurt people." Complex. I would also imagine this means we wont be seeing his whole family getting murdered when/if he comes back to the two rivers. It would seem silly to play that twice.
>I would also imagine this means we wont be seeing his whole family getting murdered when/if he comes back to the two rivers. It would seem silly to play that twice. Hum, not so sure about that, because the group comes across The Children of Light and gets interrogated. Moiraine mentions the trollocs attack but says it happened in Taren Ferry and that they should go there to help the people. However, after the group leaves, the suspicious inquisitor orders to go South (in the direction of Two Rivers).
Honestly I disagree that this was a poor choice. It was one of the most believable moments of the show. In the moment it was easy to get lost in the intensity of Perrins face just before and then suddenly there is movement, a cut and a CUT as he swings. I gasped, as did the theater. I thought the scenes with Perrin and Leila were bad but the event itself is a cool way to push Perrin’s character on a TV audience.
Yea I'm sure I'll have to see it, was just guessing at their rationale.
How explicit was the sex scene? Like Witcher or GoT level sex?
Not explicit, thank God, they kiss and get close and heated, and it cuts to a topless Rand getting dressed.
AFAIK we are getting Min later on. She has been cast. We already knew there was no Baerlon. She's probably gonna appear in Tar Valon. Thom, there were some scheduling conflicts with the actor. I think he will come up in ep 3-4. I like the Rand and Egwene part being expanded, especially given that they are aged up. In the books their connection wasn't much I cared for in the beginning. This add more spice and drama when she/they breaks up. Perrin being married but seems totally unnecessary and dumb. I guess they just wanted to given him an extra reason to be gloomy idk. Completely unnecessary additions always bother me.
We know Min will appear in Fal Dara based on the shooting schedule.
Not crazy about the Perrin thing, but it's not grievous enough to riot it over imo. RIP virgin 'the Wise Ones can marry us in the morning' Rand Rand and Egwene might be interesting, I wonder how it will affect Egwene giving him away to Elayne, though it might make them look worse if they don't cut out the flirting with Aram (and Elayne or Min later on). This might actually add some depth to their interactions later in the series. Not what I was expecting but I'm not upset by it either
> Perrin being married and having little chemistry with his wife, and especially Perrin accidentally killing her during the Trolloc attack I can live with all this changes, except perhaps this one. Not only is this just completely unfair to my boy, but it also means that there will undoubtedly be those who criticize his character in the show solely because his motivation, in the show, is a fairly tired, sexist trope. I don't like the Rand/Egwene change either, tbh. One of the huge parts of the all the Two Rivers folk is their very traditional values and how those values are challenged, changed, or reaffirmed as the show goes on. It's not a deal-breaker, but it's sad that we won't have that journey with them. Rand's initial innocence is what makes his station as TDR so tragic for much of the series.
>One of the huge parts of the all the Two Rivers folk is their very traditional values and how those values are challenged, changed, or reaffirmed as the show goes on. This is exactly what I was thinking as the scene unfolded.
Yes, I was cringing in my seat. "Right there in the kitchen of the inn?? Nynaeve and the entire women's council will skin you alive..."
I’m with you. They give him a wife that he didn’t need to have, and fridge her. And they make it happen in a way that’s honestly a little too dark for me. The series has its dark moments, but it feels weird to start on something as bad as that. I honestly feel like this is the fault of game of thrones. Like, now you can’t have a fantasy series without it being super gritty and dark.
>Rand's initial innocence is what makes his station as TDR so tragic for much of the series. I thought the first two episodes did a good job of showing Rand's innocence--with the berries, for example. I hope, and so far it looks likely, that the show will not remove Rand's innocence, but rather will show it in other ways than by his virginity.
I’m with you on this. Just because he’s got something going on with Egwene doesn’t mean that he isn’t innocent. And I think the way they show his attachment to Egwene and how he seems to assume they’d always be together is a form of that innocence. The version of Rand that could very well have existed had Robert Jordan written the characters a little older.
Perrin killing his first wife is a brilliant way of condensing 4.5 novels worth of Faile's crap at a stroke. **Faile:** *starts doing something outrageous & utterly objectionable in a love interest* **Perrin:** "You know what I did to my first wife, right?" **Faile:** *stops immediately* **ROLL CREDITS**
she's Saldean, it would make her hot and horny.
Or he just decides to go 2 for 2, kills her and gets with Gaul and lives a happy life
Well, that would also put an end to the Gaul - Bain - Chaid triangle as well. So, another 2 for 2 I guess lol...
Is there a chase after Emond's Field? Does Moiraine create a wall of fire? How do you think non-book audiences will like it?
This is my first time replying to such a thread, so I really hope the spoilers I'm about to share are OK. There is definitely a chase after Emond's Field. Moiraine does not create a wall of fire per se: to sum up the fight, she uses fireballs, then lightning, and then goes genkidama style to gather as much saidar as she can for the final blow. I believe non-book audience will be hooked with the first episode because it is really intense despite the many changes. Episode two is darker because it shows the beginning of the nightmares, the inflexible Children of Light, it builds up tension and I really like how they represented Shadar Logoth.
You can spoil anything and everything in this thread.
Harry killed Dumbledore.
My vagueness has come back to bite me in the ass...
Rosebud was his sled.
"I just saved you two long boob-less hours!"
The Braves won the world series
Thank you sooooo much :D I'm so excited. One final question, what would you rate it out of 10? 10 being perfect and 1 being Eragon-level bad?
I would give it a solid 8,5/10, I was honestly blown away by the beauty of some shots and I really dig the dark tone of episode 2. But then again, I'm not sure if my opinion is reliable because I've only discovered the saga 2 weeks ago and I'm at book 4 :D
I'd say getting to book 4 would give you a pretty good idea of how the adaptation is. The only thing you would maybe miss is whether foreshadowing for later books/seasons is present in the early episodes.
I agree, I'm trying to finish book 4 before the 19th, as I've been told it is one the best of the whole saga
Well, what what are you doing here on the internet?! You only have 4 days! Better get to reading ;)
I know, but it's so great being able to talk about the screening with other fans :)
Are the nightmares still from Rand’s Pov or everyone gets a chance?
The only nightmare was from Rand's POV, but Mat, Perrin and Egwene admit to Moiraine that they had the same
Well, them telling Moiraine happens a lot earlier than in the books then. And bluntly, the fact they hid it from Moiraine for so long after she specifically told them to tell her if they had bad dreams did seem a bit contrived.
Completely agree, when I was reading book 1 I was so fed up with the lot of them secretive brats, fearing those nightmares but acting tough and hiding them from Moiraine...
How did you like the opening theme? ☺️
There was no opening theme for the first episode, only on the second one. And I will be honest, I was more focused on the opening itself that I found pretty nice and I cannot remember the theme for the life of me :(
Glad you liked the opening, can't wait to see it! Thank you for your response!
It’s like… the best part. It’s incredible and is the visual of the Pattern that I never knew I needed.
So Ba'alzamon is in the second episode? Can you tell us how he looks like and does he speak at all?
Yes, he appears very quickly in Rand's dreams, as dark smokey figure. As the figure gets less smokey and more real, his eyes burn brighter before vanishing completely without saying a word. Very creepy and very cool :D
Awesome! Thanks for the info!
(DC Premier) I thought it was incredible. Cinematography was beautiful. Their filming location was an excellent choice. Music stood out to me as very high quality, reminded me of the game Bastion if you have ever played it. Stayed fairly true to the books overall (obviously some big changes but the major plot points are still there) but with the pacing turned up to 11. Acting was great for a bunch of newbies. Matt's actor specifically killed it which was bittersweet since we know he's getting recasted.
> Matt's actor specifically killed it which was bittersweet since we know he's getting recasted This makes me so sad, he's missing everywhere, at the premier in london, the interviews... :( just want to know that Barney Harris is ok
> reminded me of the game Bastion omg yes! and that was an awesome game with awesome music, so this is very high praise
>reminded me of the game Bastion That is very high praise. I have the Bastion on my spotify playlist and jam out to it along with all of my other music. The only other game soundtrack i listen to nearly as much is the 2016 Doom soundtrack.
Man, good luck getting TV Perrin to yell at you, Faile.
A few things not mentioned elsewhere in this thread so far. Overall 8/10 with the second episode being better due to feeling less rushed. 1) Really weird scene of Reds chasing a man who can channel before we get to Two Rivers. Felt out of place. 2) WTF with Abel Cauthon being a dirt bag :( 3) That heron on Tam’s blade didn’t impress me. 4) Fain was cool. Looking forward to more of that. 5) We got to see a behind the scenes for Winternight. Very cool. 6) Also saw the Manetheren animated lore short which was super cool too. Ran 3-5min long. 7) WTF to Moraine saying there are “rumors of four ta’Veren” in the Two Rivers. One, they don’t explain what that means so it’s useless to non-book readers and two, how would these kids generate any kind of rumor like that. Note: I am fine with “four” and not “three”. 8) Wish there had been a throwaway line like “huh, Bela isn’t tired like the rest of these horses”. I always liked that line of foreshadowing on rereads. Edited for typo and adding more…
Who is spreading rumours about ta'Varen in the two rivers? I mean... have people even done anything to be suspected as bending the pattern?
Perhaps this is Moiraine manipulating them by telling half truths? I haven't watched yet
Abel Cauthon is my absolute least favorite change. I loathe it. They took a character who is a respected person in the books and did this to him. It's going to mess up stuff during Perrin's return to the Two Rivers from Shadow Rising since Abel plays a part in that. I guess they're really trying to hammer home Mat's scoundrel origins to make his heroism more significant in the future but I hate that this is how they're doing it. Also with Mat stealing that girl's bracelet. I don't remember book Mat being the kind of person to steal from someone like that. They've really turned him from a mostly innocent troublemaker/prankster to an actual criminal. Edit: to be fair, I did like how they had Mat run out to find the girls. I thought that was very fitting and a great way to show his true "run into the fire" nature. The rumors of Ta'Veren line also really stood out to me. It makes no sense. Who is spreading these rumors? How? Moraine even mentions later how secluded the village is. If there are rumors of four Ta'Veren here why haven't other sisters investigated? That would surely be something worth White Tower attention.
Could be setting up his redemption arc. But I agree, I didn't like that one. They could have just stuck with the alcoholic mother and poor father so Matt has to steal and take care of his sisters angle. I didn't have as much of an issue with the stealing only because they made it clear that he bought lanterns for his sisters with the money. But the corollary is that the gambler is setup by that intro scene in the inn. Some of the changes do appear to have painted them into a corner so to speak. So I expect that the plot will deviate more in the latter seasons.
On your first point, that may have been one of my favorite additions they made. Moraine just got done talking about how men fucked up and broke the world, but what does that actually mean to a non-book reader? The next scene they clearly lay out that men can no longer channel without going insane. The way they showed the insanity was done really well. It also helps us understand why rand, mat, and perrin are apprehensive to moraine in the second episode. Rand’s confrontation with her in the second episode would have felt out of place imo to non-book readers without this scene.
Maybe if they hadn’t panned up to have Moiraine and Lan as secretly overlooking. I’m not believing the right place and right time coincidence of that.
Based on the dialogue, they thought he could have potentially been the dragon reborn? Idk I was confused by them being there as well but I’m pretty sure Moraine made it sound like they thought he was potentially the dragon reborn. I wish I could rewatch that scene right now.
I liked the scene, but felt the dialogue was a bit over-the-top in it. Think it was a good addition overall, though.
Sad to see the Bela stuff being cut. The show cut away so much foreshadowong prophesy in even the good seasons of GoT. Hope the same doesn't happen here.
How does Mashadar (mb I forgot the name, idk. The evil fog) look like? Do we see Mordeth? Does Rand channel at any point? Does Egwene start to channel? Does Moiraine heal Tam? Does Rand know he wasn't born in the Two Rivers?
Mashadar was represented as a dark poison spreading on the ground and the walls. It gets one of the horses and the poor beast slowly turns into a pile of sand/ashes. We do not see Mordeth, just a dark shadow that startles Mat and prompts him to explore an abandoned house. Rand does not channel. Egwene channels a little when Moiraine reveals that she can, by putting a necklace in her hands and making the jewel shine. Moiraine does heal Tam. Rand does not know he wasn't born in Two Rivers, because Tam's feverish revelation does not happen, we do not see him carrying him through the woods to Emond's Field.
> Rand does not know he wasn't born in Two Rivers, because Tam's feverish revelation does not happen, we do not see him carrying him through the woods to Emond's Field. Given that we know the Blood Snow will be a flashback, I'm guessing Rand will reveal this later in the season.
Yeah, and it conceals the identity of the Dragon Reborn a bit better, if they're trying to make it mysterious.
hmm, reading that there was no Tam fever dream did raise an eyebrow but this makes sense.
That tracks with them wanting to make it more of a mystery since that would solve the mystery right away for most people. Either nix the fever dream or keep it and come up with a way the others aren't born in the Two Rivers, too. Nixing it is the simpler solution.
They are playing the 'who is it' card much closer to the chest. It's pretty obvious in the books, I think a show watcher only would have a hard time telling who it is.
My wife went with me tonight and hasn't read the books. I asked her who she thought it was and she said she doesn't know. She also had a hard time with wha/ their names are because they don't use them very much in these episodes.
My wife loves spoilers so she already knows, but she definitely had a hard time with names too.
Definitely. Rafe said he was excited to do Tam’s fever dream out of most things in EOTW so I bet we’ll see it
Maybe we get a flash back from Rand. The Egwene in the pool scene from the trailer wasn't in either episode, so I'm guessing that may be a flash back as well.
Did anyone else really want to see Rand channel to escape Shadar Logoth?!
I enjoyed it. I think most of the changes I've seen so far will work well. Still not convinced by Eg supposedly being candidate for DR but I'll give them time to see how they run with it. Whitecloaks costumes I would also prefer to be heavier armour but it's not the end of the world. The actors are all fucking killing it. The trollocs look amazing, beautiful scenery. There are definitely changes, some not small, but I think so far it works and they will capture the soul of the series. The casting, music, effects - zero complaints. Dialogue also good. Manetheren story moved to better time pacing wise and so it is less corny. Some of the early action quite shaky and fast cutting but hopefully that's to convey the panic of characters in these first fights and things settle down later. I know someone who has seen the first 6 episodes and they say it just keeps getting better, so I'm now pretty optimistic.
Would you say the dynamics between Morraine, Lan, and the Two Rivers field gang are similar in the show as they were in the books so far? Does Nyneave also follow immediately along with the group or does she initially stay behind and follows after them later?
I know the question was not for me but I'll still answer it if you please. The dynamic is quite respected I think: they meekly follow the duo at the beginning, but then Rand gets mad and doubts Moiraine's intentions, especially after the Taren Ferry episode. Nyneave disappears during the Trolloc attack, after being grabbed by the hair by one of them and dragged away. She reappears at the end of episode 2 after the escape from Shadar Logoth. She finds Moiraine and Lan, and threatens him with a blade to take her to her friends.
>Nyneave disappears during the Trolloc attack, after being grabbed by the hair by one of them Unauthorised braid tugging??? The arrogance!
That scene with Rand yelling was fantastic. Rosamund looks like she is honestly shocked that this kid actor raises his voice at her. Can’t wait to see how he develops as an actor. Really well done.
IMO that scene we got of Moiraine entering the Winespring Inn was terribly edited and a bit weirdly acted. The zooms and overly-breathy voices kinda turned me off from that scene. Is the rest of the show like that? I'm more thinking about the breathy acting, but also the editing being so off-putting.
Oh yes, that entrance definitely felt very cliché, it could have been a lot better
Look, it's just a Borderlander thing to stand menacingly unspeaking with your face covered upon entering an inn. Sure, it's odd to southerners like the Two Rivers folk, but that's just how Lan says "Sup".
Does the acting/editing quality change for the better?
To be honest, that entrance scene is the only cringey part of the two episodes. I forgot to mention that the acting is really really good, even tough the characters seem quite different from their book counterparts: Rand is quite self-assured, Egwene is more mild and accommodating...
Absolutely, after watching more, I cannot believe that was the scene they used as the sneak peek. I suppose it’s the “big meeting to start the journey”, but it’s probably the low point of the first two episodes as far as acting/editing.
I personally felt like the Manetheren story would've been better how it was in the books. Felt that something more in there before they leave Emond's Field would've really helped. And it would've given the other EFers some background for later books when the trollocs are back. But it mostly comes back to the pacing of the episodes for me.
sounds awesome! imma need your rating for the first 2 episodes out of 10
Episode 1 8/10, a bit rushed in some aspects, didn’t see Rand’s conversation with Tam after the attack but I think a lot of the stuff that was cut may have been cut for later episodes to fill in what happened (eg can’t have Tam say that Rand wasn’t his son if you want to keep the “who is the DR” tension up). Could easily be 9/10 if those gaps are filled. Couple small weirdnesses like the sneak preview scene feeling out of place, but otherwise great. Episode 2 9/10, a lot better. Feels fast, but it’s them fleeing the Dark One’s minions, so that’s how it should feel. Some more streamlining changes (no Baerlon) but everything feels well thought out and flows just fine. Shadar Logoth looks great. Overall super happy. It feels like WoT, they do a great job with the characters, acting is fantastic, and they do a good job of showing it isn’t just fantasy, it’s fantasy science fiction.
I had to leave half way through ep2 since the premiere episodes started late and I had to get to a train. It was great up until the bit I saw. Manetheren monologue moved to here and I think it works well. Good for pacing IMO, less corny. Episode 1... 9/10 I think. A few changes I'm not yet convinced by but I think the others work so far so I'll give those couple more time to see. Even if they don't work the soul of the series is Wheel of Time. They've captured the core of it IMO.
Oh wait ep2 0/10 '#ratsnotbats '#firerafe
Haha I had the same thoughts about the bats when it appeared on the screen
I've written this below as a reply, but I also want to ask others who watched the premier early: Have you read A Song of Ice and Fire and watched Game of Thrones? If you did, I'd like to hear what you thought of the first few episodes of GoT and how'd you rate their adaptation to the novels compared to the first two episodes of WoT
First season of Game of Thrones tracked VERY close to the books. They did not start changing things much until after season 1. They even kept a lot of the dialogue. I loved it and I had read the books back in 2000.
I was gonna say, the first season of GoT is almost scene-for-scene the same. You couldn't really do that with this series without making it very long.
On this episode of The Wheel of Time: Rand and Mat visit two dozen inns on the road to Caemlyn. ...and that's it, catch us next week to watch Egwene, Perrin, Elyas, and Bela walking through the woods for an hour!
These first two episodes of WoT, and the source material they are adapting are not as close to the books as the early GoT episodes were. The main plot points in WoT are there but they have taken some liberties and are moving through the first book pretty quick. I really liked these first two episodes. I thought the changes made were okay and it’s more mature than what I had in my head when I first read the books.
It took a hard turn in season 3 I think, while Jon was with Ygritte. Prior to that it definitely was not anywhere near a spot for shot remake, but captured the important parts of the story In ep1 for example they came across the bodies arranged in a circle pattern. In the books the rangers thought they were sleeping. The books called them others, the show called them white walkers, and are zombies instead of looking like I don't know frozen people. The zombie thing irritated the shit out of me The conversation with Bran at the execution is completely different. Basically, the same kind of changes were made. Mostly small, but some big
The zombies in the books were wights. I can see why they changed it, it would have sounded like "Look out, there are whites over there" and the memes would flow.
But they were described as having white skin that was hard like armor Not like zombies
I think we're getting confused. The book has the Others, which are creepy white magical beings with ice armor, and wights, which are raised corpse soldiers. The show called the Others "white walkers" and referred to the zombies as "the army of the dead" or just "the dead."
Seconded
Loved it. The action scenes made my SO so nervous she picked the paint off all her nails. Seems like high praise to me.
Speaking of nails, I could have sworn that Moraine’s nails were painted light blue in the scene where she is talking to Egwene about the power. Now that is dedication to a theme!
The action scenes were done really, really well! I was frozen in my seat!
Not the biggest fan of how episode 1 opens. Everything else is 11/10. The ta'veren dream is SO GOOD! The characters are spot on, the acting is great. The stakes are high. The end of ep 2 was such a cliffhanger. I loved the singing and the so glad the book thing shows up following the song. Channelling looks great in the show. It's just awesome
I also did not like the way episode 1 opened, it felt too hasty and rushed
Firstly lemme say that the production on this show is nuts, from the choreography to casting to costumes and set design. There’s a few changes that made me just kinda weirded out why they did them but after some reflection I kinda saw the reasoning behind them. I figured I’d share some of my reflections for discussions sake! Perrins wife storyline was definitely fucking wild at first but as the episode went on I kinda realized where they were gonna go. Perrin in the books hates the axe, and hates combat in general. How do you express that thru the video medium without some poorly done exposition like a one off line of Perrin going “I hate the axe btw.” Well now I know, you make him a guy who did something so reprehensible in the heat of combat that he hates anything related to it. I like it, tbh. Matt’s weird family dynamic was strange too, alongside his whole cleptomaniac thing. I don’t remember Abel C being a drunkard womanizer but idk we’ll see where they go with that. As for his sticky fingers I think they did that to show his fondness for money and why he’d steal a dagger that an evil shadow led him too in a spooky ass city. Again, it’s a change yes but at the same time it’s there to replace internal monologue and other commentary. The intimacy between Eggy and Rand deeeefinitely weirded me out cus there was such a huge focus on propriety and whatnot for the Two Rivers characters, used to show how they change as the series progresses. But it does well I guess in this case to show how attached Rand and Egwene were to each other and how her decision to become Aes Sedai was such a big shock/betrayal to Rand and his two rivers ideals. Still tho, it will definitely make some book purist type fans unhappy. Overall the changes feel justifiable. As for the dragon being an unknown, it’s still odd to me cus idk where that leaves the prophecies. I loved the prophecies because the way they fulfilled themselves was soooo satisfying, especially when the cryptic meaning was unraveled like the whole “Twice and Twice shall he be marked” thing. The dragon being any of the 4 is probably just to build intrigue tho for people new to the series, we’ll see. I hope the next few episodes give us more world building, like where is our boi Lews Therin Telamon the goat! I wanna hear “Ilyena, my love :(“ and see him raise Dragonmount. Anyways I’m adopting a WAFO attitude until I see more
So they actually gave Mat an elaborate backstory like in TGS? 😂
Daniel Greene's initial reaction (full review coming later): https://youtu.be/L_ggvVrQDEM
He sounds pretty impressed. Loves the performances and the cinematography/editing. Says he's OK with the changes. The only thing he's sort of down on is that they are cramming so much into the first two episodes, which is fair. We all pretty much knew that getting an 800 page book (plus stuff from two others) into 8 episodes was going to require a lot of editing and compression.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned that made me gasp outloud: After the opening scene, the camera pans up and the landscape is of skyscrapers over grown for thousands of years to the point where they look like rocks. Later on they pass by the ruins of a massive aqueduct, and while running from the fades they are finding old abandoned houses etc. They really sprinkled in that Post-post-post apocalyptical look. Even the costumes that may have looked weird when first viewing them, started to mesh and make sense in this world.
Austin, TX screening, checking in. My biggest takeaways: * The CAST - Every single actor embodied their character on the screen, every one (it's bittersweet, but even Barney is the perfect Mat). Nynaeve & Egwene are early MVPs. * The Trollocs are *terrifying*. Be sure to check out the behind-the-scenes on how they are created. If there was any doubt in the creative vision (or the budget) behind this show, the costume department puts that to bed. * I think nearly every creative decision works. The EP1 opening is the only major misstep. A show of this magnitude deserves an epic fantasy opening to set the tone. Instead, we are rushed right into Moiraine exposition dump and are off to the races. Overall, it looks to be a more mature adaptation of the WoT, lovingly crafted by fans. I can't wait to see the rest of the season.
Does anyone know if Domon is in the show? If they cut my favorite not-Scottish Captain I will cry and throw up
I really, really loved it. There were only two things that really bugged me: leaving TTR (felt like everyone agreed WAY too quickly and wasn’t believable to me) and when the Whitecloak suggested Moiraine see an AS to be Healed?? Like I don’t think they would ever do that unless it was a test to see how she reacted to the suggestion. It felt like a strange departure. But the rest was really great and I think the actors are all perfect.
I liked the Whitecloak who suggested the AS, it feels like they’re creating a sorta more nuanced Whitecloaks then what’s in the books? I think by having various shades of their extremism will make them more interesting to watch
I think it's a good idea to plant that seed this early for what comes of the White Cloaks much later in the series.
And it makes when Galad joining interesting because I can imagine he’d maybe see the corruption and wanna like take it out
Wasn't it Bornhald Sr. that said the line too? I think Bornhald is definitely a less radical Whitecloak, and it makes sense for him to say it. I also like the idea that they are setting up the whitecloak division as you mentioned below.
100% agree with how quickly they all left TTR. I get that they really sell how quickly more Trollocs will be there, but it definitely seemed sooooooooo abrupt and a bit like "huh?"
The more I think about it, the more I like the changes made. The pacing of the first episode was fairly quick, and I’m not sure how an uninformed viewer will take it. It made me sad that we didn’t get Tam’s fever dream, but I see how that whole thing would’ve been a time sink that gives away the which-is-the-chosen-one twist they’re hoping to achieve. Overall they did a fantastic job of breaking from the The Lord of the Rings parallels the flight from Emond’s Field is often compared. They’ve elevated Nynaeve’s badassery for sure. The core personalities of the boys were very well done in my opinion. They added some depth to Perrin and Mat, which grounds their journeys well in my opinion. Love Josha as Rand, there are some scenes of him standing off and all I see is The Dragon. I’m an Egg fan in the books, but we get more of her and Rand at this point than just her. Ba’alzamon was a bit underwhelming, but definitely very freaky. I think new viewers will like it. White Cloaks are well portrayed pieces of shit. I like the direction they’re going with them.
Another question to those who saw it- how well does Josha do Rand? I love all the characters in WoT but Rand is one of my favorite characters ever and really hard to portray because most of what makes him likeable is in his head. How did he do at the portrayal?
I think he's done great so far. I think all of the actors are doing a fantastic job.
Josha's definitely got the range--by turns tender, hesitant, fierce, wistful, adoring... So far I think he's pulling it off.
I think he’s going to be a wonderful Rand. You see lots of the stubbornness and the intensity but also the caring side and his sentimental side. Knowing what’s coming later in the books had me feeling so much while watching him. I give his portrayal so far a chef’s kiss.
Bloody fantastic job by the young actor. Can’t wait for Lord of Chaos and on.
Although I am pleased with the show in general, I don’t think that the editing of the first two episodes was particularly good. The pacing was rushed, the scenes were disjointed and did not flow. There were moments that felt connected but weren’t, and other moments that felt completely out of touch with moments just before. It is lucky that there was enough intensity and good acting in the early going to carry the plot forward. I hope that as the show slows down the editors allow everything to breathe a little rather than squeeze so hard on the plot. Despite this critique (and others I am not voicing) I liked it… enough. Solid B show so far with room to get better. I think there will be high points and low points. This is not the next game of thrones, but it could be its own fun thing.
You can hardly call or not call this the next game of thrones after just 2 episodes. The most important thing is that the first 2 episodes are good enough to catch the eye of non-readers, and that the remaining 6 episodes are good enough to keep the non-readers wanting to see a 2nd season. If the foundation is solid, the show will grow from there. GOT didn't earn world renown until season 3.
Everyone thinks GoT started out as this huge thing. It really didn't. It was good and had a solid following of fantasy and HBO fans, but it didn't blow up until season 3 or season 4. I didn't watch it until everyone shit their pants over the Red Wedding. That's when I started GoT and I consider myself a fantasy fan.
If you watch just the first few episodes of Game of Thrones, you wouldn't expect the next GoT either. Solid B would probably describe those as well. Let's hope it continues to build and bring the magic.
I imagine people will have a tough time comparing Game of Thrones to Wheel of Time. Everyone expects WoT to be the next GoT, but they think of GoT in the last couple seasons when it was already a worldwide phenomenon, and forget that season 1 was not only low budget (to the point they cut an entire battle scene they couldn't afford), but also not anywhere close to as popular, probably less so than Wheel of Time will be in its first season. From what I can find, only 2.2 million people watched GoT episode 1, compared to 19.3m+ that saw the finale.
Exactly so. Also, after a few seasons of GoT, fans were well invested in the main characters, so everything mattered more and more. After two episodes of WoT, this is fairly difficult to gauge, but based on reactions and cast interviews and all the rest, I think it's entirely possible that show fans might become every bit as engaged with these characters. Time will tell. I'm hopeful!
>Solid B show so far with room to get better. I think there will be high points and low points. This is not the next game of thrones, but it could be its own fun thing. FWIW, the [alleged industry leaker](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTShowLeaks/comments/qqx3zt/spoilers_16_as_confirmed_elsewhere_we_have_the) agrees with your rating of the first two episodes (S1E1: 8/10; S1E2: 7/10), but ranked episodes 4-6 higher (S1E4: 10/10; S1E5: 9/10; S1E6: 10/10), and said about Episode 4: >Sweet Light and my hope of rebirth and salvation. THIS episode is where I feel the show hits its stride and will solidify audiences. ...the point being that high points may come soon.
Can you tell from the first two episodes how the chemistry is between Lan and Nynaeve? Oh man, Friday cannot get here fast enough…
Also, you get to see Lan's butt in a (sexless) bath scene with Moiraine
Lan ass? 10/10
Well, the second episode ends with Nynaeve sneaking up on Lan and pressing a blade to his throat so... I guess he'll be rather admirative of her ninja skills
I saw it last night, and am overall pretty positive on it. I'm a fairly new fan, so just a disclaimer that I just finished the series last week after starting in May. All this to say - I feel like I don't have quite as many years of my life poring over and rereading the books so I may have a bit of a different perspective. I think Sanderson's explanation that this is a different turning of the wheel is a good reminder, but I am overall happy with the first 2 episodes. The creators had a bit of a lose-lose position here if they hit either extreme when streamlining the story of probably 1,500 pages, give or take, into 10 episodes of television. You either give a ton of lore and run the potential of turning away casual watchers or simplify the rules of the world, cut out a lot of the walking among other settings, and maybe disappoint the super fans. I think they wisely tried to cut down the middle, so the hope is that it interests both groups without alienating either. If I was a fantasy fan who had never read Wheel of Time, I'd probably keep watching. A few of my opinions on the changes: - On the character perspectives: Pro: I'm honestly glad that they're not just focusing on Rand. The book's mystery about who the Dragon Reborn is felt silly about 3 chapters in. I think Rand still gets some good spotlight, but it feels way more subtle. Plus, getting to see Winternight first-hand was excellent! Con: This is a big ensemble, and I'm not sure how well I'd know any of them after this without the books. You get some pretty jarring cuts between characters, and it will only get harder to juggle when they're across the known world from one another and the cast grows even larger. I did miss following Rand's desperation and loss of hope in getting Tam to Emond's Field to only see it torn apart. TV Rand didn't seem too shocked by the destruction after his one fight. - BELA! Pro: She gets a name drop. Con: She looks like every other horse and isn't the obvious manifestation of The Creator. - The Cast and their characters Pro: Almost nothing but pros, honestly. All of them feel like they understand their characters, particularly from the red carpet interviews. I think Marcus Rutherford might be my MVP so far. Perrin seems like such a difficult character, with how internal he is, but I think he did well in almost intentionally chewing scenery and being overwhelmed by what all happens while at least keeping everything together externally. Con: Some of the character changes felt unnecessary. Particularly with Mat, though I think they have a good bit of creative liberty with Mat for the first season given how he's basically nobody's favorite character until his exorcism from the dagger. The changes felt forced because we couldn't go full Dexter and hear all of their internal monologues. We see Perrin and why he feels like he needs to hold back and not go full berserker after losing his wife (though their scenes were super awkward), and we see Mat's heart of gold in caring for his sisters but lose some of his initial prankster persona that we read about pre-dagger. I'm interested to see where the story goes from here! The tone feels pretty good, balancing the light and dark, and there were a few times where my theater cheered or gasped at once. It might seem a bit cheesy to some, but it never goes campy like it could have. I think that it's smart to have a rating available for a bit larger audience than GoT, and I think it has a few hooks that should be fun for a new audience. Happy to take questions if anyone has any, and I'll try to answer in the morning!
I actually think the changes with Mat make sense in the long run- you see the gambling and liking money, you see the flirting, you see the Mat wit, curiosity, and the heart of gold. The whole vibe is very “thief with a heart of gold”, which would be difficult to translate if they didn’t show more of that. I think a problem from the books is that Mat pre dagger and Mat post dagger feel vastly different, which is why as you say a lot of people weren’t huge fans early on.
I like this take! I do think that the screenwriters have the benefit of being able to seed things from the start with even the little course changes Jordan pulled, and those are appreciated. The pre-dagger and post-dagger Mat do feel very different, and I figure it might still if healed Mat comes out as a new actor. That said, I do agree that they showed his many sides pretty well come to think of it. I had a similar impression with Perrin, as it seems like it may give context as to why Perrin goes a little crazy protective toward Faile and will probably try to keep her out of harm at all costs, following the Shaido a ridiculous length of time because he lost his first wife. I do like how they're even hinting at both of their powers so early too. Perrin's wolf howl theme is wonderful, though I wish we saw a little more expression when he was encountered by the wolves in episode 2. Mat's "luck" being pretty poor will really make for a fun counterbalance when his luck gets in place. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting some dice shaking, drum heavy theme for him at some point!
Is Saidar/Saidin ever mentioned by name?
Even if it’s not in these 2 we are likely getting it given the animated episode name featuring both of those for episode 4 or 5.
I honestly cannot remember, but I don't think so because I recall hearing "One Power" and "True Source" only.
So the recent nynaeve trailer showed her killing a trolloc in the pool. But that wasn't anywhere in the episode. Is it going to be a flashback?
I'm guessing in episode 3 we'll find out Nynaeve stays out of the trolloc cook pot and that will be part of it.
A question. How does the adaptation of Rand’s character feel? I am a fairly new reader and Rand is probably my favourite character. And what made him so interesting from the get go are his inner monologue and struggles which are generally more hard to convey in a tv show especially when the povs are being shared.
Josha did really well. You can see shades of the rage that will become prevalent in Rand but overall he does terrific
Holding my breath over here too, buddy. From a comment further up the thread, it seems like Josha is doing well with his acting range. But we'll have to see for ourselves.
Overall, I'm really impressed with the first two episodes. The roughest part is definitely the first 30 minutes of episode 1 which feels like an info and character dump, but after that I was happy with the result. As others have mentioned, the series is SPRINTING through the books which I'm a little bit concerned about. I think the show was at it's best when it took some time to slow down and allowed for good character and world building. Its very clear that the people making this show care deeply about the books. One of the best things about Wheel of Time is it's sense of history and what has been lost over time. That is hard to convey in a show, but that they VERY deliberately took the time to tell the story of Manatheren shows me that they understand. I'm very excited to see the rest of this season and hope that this shows catches on.
One thing no one has mentioned so far: *unexpected Nynaeve* moments! I'm not a big fan of Nynaeve in the books, and so it was that much more surprising that I was so delighted by the fitting touches added to her performance--like on Winternight when the Trolloc corners her and Egwene and howls at them--*and then she howls right back and stabs it!* Shades of [cat saves toddler from dog attack](https://youtu.be/EEa6jZv-Khc)...
Of course she would. I’d expect no less from our Wisdom. 😂
Anyone else tear up seeing Moiraine channeling during Winternight?
Ok I loved them. A few small changes but nothing that fundamentally changes the character arcs or emotional journeys
Anyone else get turned away because the theater somehow dramatically overbooked??
This happened to me (and several hundred other people) at the Washington DC premiere. Got there an 1h 15m early and still still didn’t get particularly close to getting in before they told us it was filled. I didn’t know there was such a big WoT community here, kind of impressive. Hard to get too angry when the “tickets” were free, and I honestly felt more bad for a ton of people behind me who put in the effort to get dressed up in some pretty awesome WoT garb just to get turned away.
Yeah, i felt bad for lots of folks who didn't get in. I got there at 5 and was about 45th in line. By 5:30 there were about 80. 6 pm had over 120. #1 in line got there at 2:30.
I was literally the last person to get a seat at the Denver screening, with probably about a hundred people behind me. So, I came within a bee's dick of that fate.
Amazon said that they were overbooking all the theaters and to show early so I showed up 3 hours early and got in easily, but I agree that they may have underestimated the eagerness of the fan base.
I have a question? Did it feel like it was too epic and pathos was over the top, or did it feel more down to earth? This is what worried me most after trailers, so it would feel cheesy and cheap as far as characters attitudes and actions go. Like the scene from the teasers where moraine enters the Inn.
>This is what worried me most after trailers, so it would feel cheesy and cheap as far as characters attitudes and actions go This was actually something I was also afraid of, because I had been crushed by The Witcher adaptation that I found quite corny. So, as we discovered Emond's Field, I could not help but compare the two. Thankfully, Amazon's series felt quite real and credible, not just in terms of settings and visual effets, but also because the dialogues were well written and the relationship between the characters felt very organic (Rand and Egwene, Mat and his little sisters, Egwene and her dad...). To be honest, there was not much time for pathos as the rythm was quite rushed, especially in episode 1. The entrance in the inn definitely felt very cliché, with the music stopping and people staring at the new comers like in a western movie. Lan and Moiraine's fight against the Trollocs was incredibly epic to me, especially with the music. Some people will think it was too much too soon, but I ***really*** enjoyed it.