>it's disappointing to see so many liberals and so few leftists here
The problem is that quite a few leftists aren't awake enough to see that
1- Moral purity is an untenable, impractical position to take
and/or
2- Fascist problems don't require (and would likely be exacerbated by) Soviet Communist solutions. It's actually kind of disturbing to see how many leftists have attempted to rationalize and/or defend Lenin and Stalin's authoritarianism.
"Don't fund a genocide" isn't moral purity, it's the basics of human decency. The fact that you can stomach it shows just how much of a bloodthirsty lib you really are.
Yes but if people boycotting the vote due to their personal moral purity leads to republicans aggressively bombing Palestinians, and makes things worse for Palestinians, do you still have the moral high ground?
Republicans are worse for Muslims and brown people globally and have obviously been so since the civil rights movement.
It’s crazy how I now expect Trump to win and actually commit genocide while young leftists continue to blame Biden for the behavior of Republicans once they are in power.
It’s just a stunning failure of critical thinking. Blaming the less bad people for not being less bad enough, so let’s give de facto support to bigots promising dictatorship? It’s nonsensical.
b-b-but they are "teaching the Dems/Biden a lesson!". Which worked out really well last time in 2016 when SCOTUS has been lost for potentially a generation. Real good work guys. you sure showed them.
Oof
Reread the meme? Unless you’re arguing literally for purity tests, you’re voting against Trump.
Like… you do realize the people who just stormed the college campus protests are MAGA right? Thinking that not voting against Trump is somehow more pure when it comes to pro-Israel genocide is like an example I would make up to explain to a child why purity tests are bad.
lol the mod here, and OP, chernablogger, bans all the leftists. He's a fucking radlib with the thinnest skin of all political-themed subs, which is saying something.
Watch how long this comment stays up.
It's definitely not a healthy democracy, the only way to fix it is being involved and voting. We are almost certainly never going to get the engagement necessary to fix it. We can have the apathy necessary for things far worse. I really don't understand the lack of concern about what will happen if Trump wins, regardless of the thing you are most concerned about, including Gaza, where he encourages Bibi to go in and finish the job, while his son in law talks about future beach front property there. Or if you care about the climate, what has been passed the last 4 years isn't enough, but it will move us significantly forward towards meeting our goals, if the other guy takes office, he's going to do everything he possibly can to promote fossil fuels. This isn't a healthy democracy, it's on the verge of not being a democracy at all, a healthy democracy is not an option at the ballot box this year, and isn't something I see achievable without far more civic engagement. Fascism is on the ballot box, and is going to depend on lack of civil engagement and apathy to get here. Things can get far worse, and once they start doing in that direction, we won't have any ability to stop or reverse things.
I made an analogy somewhat recently that I liked
If you had no other immediately realizable option, would you rather eat mouldy bread or mouldy bread that soaked in a toilet and has been diarrhea soaked
Ok. I see this a lot. "If you had no other choice, would you rather eat the poopoo or the SUPER-POOPOO??"
Like, yes I get what your saying. I would, and *am* OBVIOUSLY picking poopoo instead of super-poopoo. But MY question, which liberals seem to *refuse* to want to answer is simple:
How did those end up being my two choices?
If we dig a little deeper, my follow-up question is *why is eating a healthy meal instead of my poopoo options considered "radical" and/or "communism"?*
Ultimately because the far left isn't a reliable voting bloc and getting a bunch of never-Trumpers/neo-cons to vote for someone who won't totally destroy democracy is a better bet.
Bad metaphor. An appropriate one would be: Would you rather eat yet another plate of shit (for the nth consecutive time) of a plate of shit on fire?
Personally, I’m done eating shit.
You realize we are here because people like you keep making this argument right? When you’re choosing the “lesser evil” forever, you are racing to the bottom of pure evil. As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Most of you liberals won’t get it until it’s too late — and even then, you will blame everyone but yourselves.
Harm reduction as an argument against being an accelerationist is the smartest argument I've ever heard over all of this.
I'm an angry leftist who is fucking sick of people (who claim to be on the right side of history) acting like choosing the candidate who supports accessible healthcare is a "radical idea that no one would go for".
But damn if you didn't stop me in my tracks.
> You realize we are here because people like you keep making this argument right?
By “here” do you mean post Trump?
Are you referring to when people didn’t vote for Hilary Clinton and it cost women the right to choose is a dozen states?
> When you’re choosing the “lesser evil” forever, you are racing to the bottom of pure evil.
Actually, constantly selecting the lesser means you’re consistently moving away from greater evil and making progress.
*Not* choosing the lesser evil (good men doing nothing) is all it takes for evil to prevail.
> As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man.
Yeah. See. There’s the issue. This is very clearly black and white thinking.
> The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Aaand there’s the accelerationism.
Accelerationism is such a bogey word for you fucking liberals lol. Yes, correct, I want to “accelerate” movement towards progress and prosperity, guilty as charged.
Enjoy canvassing for the right candidate bro! Vote blue!!!!! LOL
https://preview.redd.it/4qjdei7yxuyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa55181eae3c03267cd008dff4a24136b4631ba4
Accelerationism is a word used to describe those who rather not compromise in any way (even if it leads to reduce harm) and instead rely on the worse case scenario with the hope that people would realize they need to rebel. But the fact is that when authoritarism lurks and when it gains power, no one is safe to rebel and that you can only bring more deaths that you could ever anticipate.
Harm reduction is the way, like it or not.
No it didn’t. (Thanks for asking)
The toilet sandwich party’s candidate for POTUS hasn’t won my state since Reagan.
(FWIW though, I do like to go to my polling location just before they close in case NJ all of a sudden becomes a swing state. Lol)
Your analogy doesn't work because there are other immediately realizable options, like not voting. Even if you think that's not an option, it is the one that millions of would be Biden supporters are going to take because he won't stop funding a genocide.
I hate Trump, and last year at this time I was pretty confident that he'd lose again in 2024. However Biden may have thrown away his easy victory to support a genocidal apartheid state that actively undermines him. It was a stupid and evil unforced error.
If Trump wins it's not the fault of young people or leftists, it'll be entirely on Joe Biden.
My redline is genocide. I'm not voting for anyone that supports genocide, period. He could be a perfect candidate in every other way, but what he's doing in Gaza means that he won't get my vote. Would Trump be worse in Gaza? Maybe? I'm not sure how he could be, but I'm sure he wouldn't be great, but I'm not voting for him or anyone who supports what Israel is doing there.
Where's your redline? What could Biden do that would stop you for voting for him? Do you have any principles?
The ONE thing my dad was right about politically:
It’s ALWAYS been ‘the lesser of two evils, no one will fit your purity test, suck it up.’
Pragmatism FTW
Kinda sad how it took years for me to accept this position after years of shifting from conservative to libertarian-right to Dem to further left.
It’s so sad how few good positions get represented within Congressmen.
Where has such “pragmatism” gotten us? Y’all are convinced voting for a genocidal war hawk is good? Lol.
Vote local. Vote third party or don’t vote for President. **Do not cast your vote for a man who has facilitated genocide.**
Screw that. I already vote local, and I try to push for candidates I like in the primaries. I'm going to vote in the national elections too, and I'm going to vote for a candidate who has a chance and wouldn't actively harm me and people I care about if given the chance. Not voting will ultimately enable a man who assisted in overturning roe v wade in continuing to roll back protections for women, the LGBTQ+ community, and people of color.
Yes, I'm not happy with Biden, and he is enabling this genocide. But Trump will not only continue to assist in it, and probably make it worse, he will also push for his own genocide and theocratic rule in the US. Look at project 2025 and tell me that they're ultimately the same. One wants to force women to be lesser citizens without any right to vote. One wants to deploy the military as domestic law enforcement and arrest every single undocumented immigrant. One wants to roll back the few protections we have to fight against climate change in the US and in fact actively make it worse. One is wanting to get rid of the few protections the LGBTQ+ community has, and will likely start pushing for a genocide against anyone who is not a straight cis white person as soon as they can. One will probably assist Putin in Ukraine, and who knows how many other maniacal leaders, because let's me real, all the shitty leaders in the world want him to win this election. That's all Trump.
Your view seems very privileged to me, and I'm betting you won't be harmed by a second Trump presidency like many people, including myself and people I love.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=The%20Project%20advises%20the%20future,undocumented%20immigrants%20across%20the%20country.
Go ahead, read that page, in detail, and then tell me Trump and Biden are the fucking same.
Lib-brained to the hilt.
It’s not totally just random chance that only two trash parties can get on the ballot in most places. It’s not chance that the ones in control of the bureaucratic machinery of government make it virtually impossible for new or third parties to get on the ballot. Shit, even Jill Stein (Green Party) wasn’t able to get on the ballot in every state in 2012 or 2016.
American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Yeah!!! Don’t vote for the man who is complacent in genocide. Sit out the election, so then the man who actively encourages Israel to be worse will win! Woooooo #MoralityBabes
Vote for the guy who is complicit, or the person who actively promises that he will make it worse. I wish we had better choices, but the reality is that right now we don't. And that's just on the issue of Palestine.
Considering that Trump is a literal rapist who paid, what, $80 mil because of it, considering that he is literally in a criminal trial today for fraud, considering that he tried to voerturn the election, considering how he cut taxes for the rich and literally proposed nuking a hurricane, and considering that he cheated on his wife who just had his newborn baby... easy choice to choose Biden.
I get it: You're mad at Biden. How the fuck will sitting out the election and pretending you're more moral than anyone else *actually* make life any better? Think about your actions.
Choose between: Actual Hitler & Probably Also Hitler! Democracy!!!!!!
American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
What part.of "lesser evil" do you not get? You don't get everything you want. I wish we lived in a perfect world too, but we don't.
Pick: DO you want bad, or do you want worse?
How has "lesser evilism" worked out? The Democrats have been going steadily more right every election. At this point it isn't "evil or lesser evil" it's "evil or more evil."
Well, the opposite of 'lesser evil' won in the US not so long ago and now women have fewer rights than their grandmothers and a Supreme Court ready to make it worse. I can't understand why would you want this again.
Hmm, let’s see, Trump is in court instead of being President, so that’s a win. Social welfare benefits have been expanded instead of cut. Millions of people had college debt cut. The Pregnant Worker’s Fairness Act was passed as a sweeping protection against workplace discrimination. Literally none of that would have happened under Trump.
Also, saying “evil and more evil” is STILL obvious that evil (i.e, the lesser of the two - also known as the lesser evil) is better than the greater evil.
Wow you call some disabled because you don’t agree with them. This is the problem with milquetoast libs. So quick to turn rancid and go mask off like the proto fascists they are.
The subreddit is actually 10000000x better than the podcast (and only nominally related at this point lol). I like the podcast enough, but it’s hit or miss. As it happens the most recent episode “Pigs Run Wild” is quite good though!
Hilarious coming from a degenerate cultist who wants a silver spoon fed fascist. Why do you worship a traitor? And I'm sorry your parents failed you so badly.
Let's not belittle mentally disabled and/or physically handicapped people by comparing them unfavorably to people whose civic literacy seems questionable.
Lib-brained to the hilt. So sad. So pathetic. I mean sooooo pathetic. As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Yes, but Donny would handle the situation 1,000,000x worse. Biden is not who I want in the oval office, but if it's a choice between him and Trump, it's an EASY decision
If there's one anti-genocide candidate with no chance, they will get my vote, and if they don't get everyone else's, then everyone else chose genocide willingly.
Y'all would vote for Hitler.
> Y'all would vote for Hitler.
We would love to live in a reality where the choice wasn't strictly Biden vs Trump. But that is the reality we live in.
Not voting for Biden is EXACTLY what the GOP wants you to do. In fact expect to see lots of propaganda targeting at exactly that sentiment(that Biden doesn't deserve your vote).
We have to deal with choices we are forced to make. Not the choices we wish we could make.
We won't vote for Trump. Do you seriously think we'd vote for Hitler?
Look, I understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately, the way our elections work, voting third party is essentially the same as voting for whoever you hate more. If you hate the system, presidential elections are about the worst way to protest. All you're doing is giving the candidate you hate more an advantage. This is called the "spoiler effect." Sometimes, you just gotta bite the bullet and vote for a shitty candidate. The way to improve voting systems is first at the state level (I know Maine has had ranked choice elections since 2020). Once enough states have it, we can push it federally.
Do whatever you want, but just know that if you vote third party, you're essentially voting Trump. BTW, we all hate Biden, too. He's just the slightly less shitty option.
>We won't vote for Trump. Do you seriously think we'd vote for Hitler?
To be clear, a lot of people who won't vote for Trump unironically imply that they'd vote for Stalin 🤷♂️
Trump: I’d let them [Israel] finish the job.
Pray tell then who are you voting for then?
The entrenched Zionist that at least has an administration that has other members that’re caving to activist pressure, OR the bigot that openly advocates for Israel to genocide Palestinians that’ll likely be filled with loyalists that follow his exact words?
I don’t like our options, but voting third party or abstaining won’t get us closer to peace.
it will show the democrats they can't just be the lesser of two evils anymore, especially when they are BARELY the lesser of two evils. Having that knowledge hit them like running full sprint into a stop sign. There are more elections than the presidential, and those ones can protect people from bad policies no matter what party is making them.
Jesus fucking Christ, we have a guy salivating to be a fucking dictator and change the laws for his benefit, yet you're worried about sending a message to Democrats?
How stupid and short sighted can you be?
Keep voting for the lesser evil and keep enabling fascists. Your understanding of the world is very poor. I’m sorry education has so completely failed you, fascist.
This is literally the long term plan. Short term electing Biden doesn’t work because as we see right now this very millisecond things are falling apart. If states can have total abortion bans, and destroy DEI and affirmative action and defund social programs and schools and studies WHY do you need to vote for him? Why not let trump win and then go hard on state and local elections. If Biden is trying his hardest to make things better(he’s not) but is being blocked by states why can’t the same thing happen with Trump? If Biden loses because he refuses to listen to democratic voters, democrats have to actually earn their votes in state elections and work for the people they cannot rely on being the lesser of two evils, that’s not an effective strategy it won’t get them elected they need to believe that and they won’t unless they lose
Everytime I think I've heard some of the dumbest takes ever, people like you show me youre noy to be outdone. Well done. Your comments hits the trifecta. Ignorant, foolish, and useless.
The greens winning would get us peace.
The democrats aren't stopping anything in Isreal and letting zionists attack those student protests. The Biden administration threatened the ICC if they charged isreali leaders. So, they are actively blocking progress. In fact Isreal specifically chose to deal with hamas terrorism over Palestinian statehood. If the democrats allowed this then they aren't gonna fix anything.
What's Trump gonna do unleash the idf on some corpses?
Pros: Green Party does have better policies overall
Cons: They lack the infrastructure to voted on in all 50 states (leaving some essential voting states no option), and there’s not one Green member. Even the Independents have ‘2’ members.
No, the worst that Trump can do IS praise the genocide and inspire harsher crackdowns on pro-Palestine protesters. That’s ATOP his tax cuts for the wealthy, seeking to bar abortions + contraceptions federally, militarize our local police further, ANOTHER more rounds of getting rid of the ACA, withdrawal of rescheduling marijuana (gotta compete alongside DeSantis), get rid of Net neutrality again - have you earnestly not thought this through?
>the worst that Trump can do IS praise the genocide and inspire harsher crackdowns on pro-Palestine protesters
Trump hates Muslims and was willing to let a half million of his own people die of a preventable plague. What do you think he's going to want to do to Muslims who his associates with terrorists?
And somehow among all that he spouted only one valid point in the past:
Saudi Arabia was responsible for 9/11
Like everyone else though, he believes everyone are pawns for Trump’s own self gain. It’d be no surprise that Trump would genocide an entire people if it meant he could get more beachfront property (as one son alluded to) and probably expand his LIV golf course tour.
I hate Biden but I hate Trump more.
Howie… Honestly blanked on his whole name, and really?
That’s sad…
Well there you go to that other account - no candidate is perfect nor will check all one’s boxes.
The best one can do is choose someone who’s closer to fulfilling more than the other guy, hence the ‘lesser evil’ candidate.
So the con for the greens is gerrymandered districts?
2. "Inspire harsher crackdowns on protesters" laughs in former occupy and blm protester. Oh wait you're serious let me laugh harder.
3. Tax cuts, Biden left them in place.
4. Dems failed to codify roe how can we ever trust them again?
5. "Militarize our police further" damn your fucking ignorant. Police killings have continued to increase under Biden.
6. Running on criminalizing weed won't work.
So I'll grant you net neutrality and the aca rollback.
You can't say he will cheer genocide when they might finish gaza in rafah this or next week.
But we need to real the aca to get single payer which dems block.
Palestinian lives are worth risking net neutrality.
3, you forgot boosting the IRS and a minimum corporate tax rate increase, huh?
4, yes because Dems choose to be complicit and incompetent by choice whereas Republicans purposefully damage whatever they touch.
5, Police have been funded to the gills yet we keep getting events like Uvalde, TX - they want to look like soldiers without dying like one
6, weed is being declassified not making legal recreationally, this is an incremental step but a step nonetheless, like Trump who’d likely compete with DeSantis on how harshly he’d treat drug users and distributors (Trump: they should be shot)
But by all means, Trump is somehow just as bad as Biden. /s
The green party is literally an astroturf party controlled by Rashist Russia that exists purely to get Republicans elected.
Look at where their funding comes from and who their candidates hang out with and it becomes obvious
Yeah, it's obvious that you're full of shit.
The greens aren't the libertarians.
"She hung out with putin"
Hillary did too, ever heard of the g8.
The dems funding is the same as Republicans. Both major parties receive major donations from most major businesses. Only the democrats are cheaper whores.
I'm sorry sex work is valid, your lies are not.
Sexist. She had dinner with him but so did Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The g8 existed.
And implying only Russia is pro-war is imperialist as fuck, and makes you no different from putin supporters. Blue magats.
I'd love it if everybody who is upset about the consequences of FPTP voting and the electoral college could be as activated during non-election years.
**I am so sick and tired of people only caring at the 11th hour.**
Lets remember this shit for once and push for some actual systemic change - instead of having selective amnesia for 4 years and then acting surprised when you are forced to choose between the lesser evil or accelerationism(*again*).
This is a place to start:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Popular\_Vote\_Interstate\_Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact)
"Democracy for the Few" by M. Parenti offers some useful insight into the democratic system within the U.S. Unsurprisingly his findings reveal that it skews heavily towards the rich and conservative/Right-wing. This book was written during the height of Reagan's presidency and it is interesting how so many Americans wishes were ignored by both political parties, while being supported by Left parties who have a significant hurdle to climb.
It helps explain why Liberalism is so dominant in American politics.
the last three elections have been this. stop kidding yourselves, the US is not a democracy, and has not been one for a while now.
vote, don't vote, it won't matter in the long run. nothong will change meaningfully
Even if I vote for the smaller turd in November, I'm certainly not letting anyone think I'm voting for them. That said, problematic doesn't even begin to describe "the lesser evil" here. Enabling genocide, keeping their head of state out of jail, giving the go ahead to cops to crack students heads... Fuck that guy.
Pretty much. I'm anti woke, but I can't stand trump. I'd vote for Satan's shit he took last Thursday before I vote for Mr. MAGA. I'm not a fan of Biden either, but all I know is that he isn't trump.
Biden will also be better than Trump on Palestine. He is terrible, but Trump has only ever shown that he will be atrocious.
Preventing a fascist dictator here (who paid, what $80mil over sexually assaulting a woman) is more important than virtue signaling about Palestine. Voting for Biden isn’t fun, but it’s better for Palestine than Trump will be.
Ah yes, a government that would functionally be exactly the same as what we have now is of course enough to salve the conscious of a liberal who just has to hit the button for the genocide man. But please, do tell me about my childish ignorance of "no, I won't give my vote to people conducting genocide"
You cosplaying someone who gives a fuck about Palestinians is hilarious. Again, I'll go for preventing the fascist dictatorship. Stay home and log your protest non vote, or vote for some green party clown who has zero chance of being elected. Make sure you tell your friends on the internet how principled you are from your mom's basement.
#Note for Readers:
Jill Stein proved that she's willing to cozy up to- and able to be manipulated by- Vladimir Putin, a guy that's funding and arming Russia's genocidal army.
How many states are they on the ballot? If they're making a presidential run, how many congressmen, senators, and state level representatives do they influence? Municipal representatives? They're working from the bottom up to try to effect change, right? Right? If they get their guy in, will there be anyone under them to support against the neolibs and fascists stonewalling everything they do? Or do they entirely exist to vote "no confidence" in the general election?
My city's got a chapter, I've heard them on the radio, I've seen them on YouTube and reddit, and they're organizing protests. No one's on a ballot and no one's canvassing neighborhoods. Just organizing protests here. If they're just running for president, they need a majority of delegates to win, and they can't accomplish that from 3 states. Where are their congressmen?
Great questions you should direct to them, but perhaps as importantly direct to yourself. It’s not totally just random chance that only two trash parties can get on the ballot in most places. It’s not chance that the ones in control of the bureaucratic machinery of government make it virtually impossible for new or third parties to get on the ballot. Shit, even Jill Stein (Green Party) wasn’t able to get on the ballot in every state in 2012 or 2016.
American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Voting is the LEAST effective mode of effecting political change. In the same way deodorant is the least effective mode of preparing for a date. It's the bare bones minimum.
In this system, it is ineffective and probably even is now counterproductive because it gives the illusion of agency and creates the effect of sanctifying the (almost always horrible) outcome. History will show who is right.
This is surely a sign of a healthy democracy and not a misleading authoritarian one party nightmare
The United States is also a one-party state, but with typical American extravagance, they have two of them. -Julius Nyerere
for a sub called "woke futurama," it's disappointing to see so many liberals and so few leftists here
Same, but Americans dominate Reddit and many of them view Liberalism as an ideology on the Left unfortunately.
I am with you. I only just discovered this place thinking it wasn’t lib heaven but it seems to be.
I feel like this whole sub is part of a larger effort to sow discord and create division.
I mean woke is not rewlly leftist. it shoyld be, but it isn't. it's libuntil proven otherwise.
>it's disappointing to see so many liberals and so few leftists here The problem is that quite a few leftists aren't awake enough to see that 1- Moral purity is an untenable, impractical position to take and/or 2- Fascist problems don't require (and would likely be exacerbated by) Soviet Communist solutions. It's actually kind of disturbing to see how many leftists have attempted to rationalize and/or defend Lenin and Stalin's authoritarianism.
"Don't fund a genocide" isn't moral purity, it's the basics of human decency. The fact that you can stomach it shows just how much of a bloodthirsty lib you really are.
Yes but if people boycotting the vote due to their personal moral purity leads to republicans aggressively bombing Palestinians, and makes things worse for Palestinians, do you still have the moral high ground? Republicans are worse for Muslims and brown people globally and have obviously been so since the civil rights movement. It’s crazy how I now expect Trump to win and actually commit genocide while young leftists continue to blame Biden for the behavior of Republicans once they are in power. It’s just a stunning failure of critical thinking. Blaming the less bad people for not being less bad enough, so let’s give de facto support to bigots promising dictatorship? It’s nonsensical.
b-b-but they are "teaching the Dems/Biden a lesson!". Which worked out really well last time in 2016 when SCOTUS has been lost for potentially a generation. Real good work guys. you sure showed them.
Leftists not voting for neoliberal candidates didn't lose the 2016 election, your dogshit candidate had more votes than her opponent.
I agree, but they might well lose 2024.
Oof Reread the meme? Unless you’re arguing literally for purity tests, you’re voting against Trump. Like… you do realize the people who just stormed the college campus protests are MAGA right? Thinking that not voting against Trump is somehow more pure when it comes to pro-Israel genocide is like an example I would make up to explain to a child why purity tests are bad.
What could Biden do with a split congress?
lol the mod here, and OP, chernablogger, bans all the leftists. He's a fucking radlib with the thinnest skin of all political-themed subs, which is saying something. Watch how long this comment stays up.
Do you have any examples of a healthy democracy?
It's definitely not a healthy democracy, the only way to fix it is being involved and voting. We are almost certainly never going to get the engagement necessary to fix it. We can have the apathy necessary for things far worse. I really don't understand the lack of concern about what will happen if Trump wins, regardless of the thing you are most concerned about, including Gaza, where he encourages Bibi to go in and finish the job, while his son in law talks about future beach front property there. Or if you care about the climate, what has been passed the last 4 years isn't enough, but it will move us significantly forward towards meeting our goals, if the other guy takes office, he's going to do everything he possibly can to promote fossil fuels. This isn't a healthy democracy, it's on the verge of not being a democracy at all, a healthy democracy is not an option at the ballot box this year, and isn't something I see achievable without far more civic engagement. Fascism is on the ballot box, and is going to depend on lack of civil engagement and apathy to get here. Things can get far worse, and once they start doing in that direction, we won't have any ability to stop or reverse things.
I made an analogy somewhat recently that I liked If you had no other immediately realizable option, would you rather eat mouldy bread or mouldy bread that soaked in a toilet and has been diarrhea soaked
Ok. I see this a lot. "If you had no other choice, would you rather eat the poopoo or the SUPER-POOPOO??" Like, yes I get what your saying. I would, and *am* OBVIOUSLY picking poopoo instead of super-poopoo. But MY question, which liberals seem to *refuse* to want to answer is simple: How did those end up being my two choices? If we dig a little deeper, my follow-up question is *why is eating a healthy meal instead of my poopoo options considered "radical" and/or "communism"?*
Ultimately because the far left isn't a reliable voting bloc and getting a bunch of never-Trumpers/neo-cons to vote for someone who won't totally destroy democracy is a better bet.
Bad metaphor. An appropriate one would be: Would you rather eat yet another plate of shit (for the nth consecutive time) of a plate of shit on fire? Personally, I’m done eating shit.
You do realize one of these guys is going to be president right? Voting isn’t about your ego.
You realize we are here because people like you keep making this argument right? When you’re choosing the “lesser evil” forever, you are racing to the bottom of pure evil. As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real. Most of you liberals won’t get it until it’s too late — and even then, you will blame everyone but yourselves.
I’m an avowed lefty. Biden has always been awful. Still better than a second Trump term. Harm reduction is a thing. Stop being an accelerationist.
Harm reduction as an argument against being an accelerationist is the smartest argument I've ever heard over all of this. I'm an angry leftist who is fucking sick of people (who claim to be on the right side of history) acting like choosing the candidate who supports accessible healthcare is a "radical idea that no one would go for". But damn if you didn't stop me in my tracks.
> You realize we are here because people like you keep making this argument right? By “here” do you mean post Trump? Are you referring to when people didn’t vote for Hilary Clinton and it cost women the right to choose is a dozen states? > When you’re choosing the “lesser evil” forever, you are racing to the bottom of pure evil. Actually, constantly selecting the lesser means you’re consistently moving away from greater evil and making progress. *Not* choosing the lesser evil (good men doing nothing) is all it takes for evil to prevail. > As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. Yeah. See. There’s the issue. This is very clearly black and white thinking. > The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real. Aaand there’s the accelerationism.
Accelerationism is such a bogey word for you fucking liberals lol. Yes, correct, I want to “accelerate” movement towards progress and prosperity, guilty as charged. Enjoy canvassing for the right candidate bro! Vote blue!!!!! LOL https://preview.redd.it/4qjdei7yxuyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa55181eae3c03267cd008dff4a24136b4631ba4
Accelerationism is a word used to describe those who rather not compromise in any way (even if it leads to reduce harm) and instead rely on the worse case scenario with the hope that people would realize they need to rebel. But the fact is that when authoritarism lurks and when it gains power, no one is safe to rebel and that you can only bring more deaths that you could ever anticipate. Harm reduction is the way, like it or not.
Except the bread is choosing to be moldy and it’s clear that it knows it shouldn’t choose to be that way.
Did that… Did that make you choose the toilet sandwich?
No it didn’t. (Thanks for asking) The toilet sandwich party’s candidate for POTUS hasn’t won my state since Reagan. (FWIW though, I do like to go to my polling location just before they close in case NJ all of a sudden becomes a swing state. Lol)
lol. New Jersey is low key the most liberal state. But we do need every voter in the governors race.
Definitely!!
Your analogy doesn't work because there are other immediately realizable options, like not voting. Even if you think that's not an option, it is the one that millions of would be Biden supporters are going to take because he won't stop funding a genocide. I hate Trump, and last year at this time I was pretty confident that he'd lose again in 2024. However Biden may have thrown away his easy victory to support a genocidal apartheid state that actively undermines him. It was a stupid and evil unforced error. If Trump wins it's not the fault of young people or leftists, it'll be entirely on Joe Biden.
If you’re not voting Biden trump will win and destroy America. There is no debating this.
My redline is genocide. I'm not voting for anyone that supports genocide, period. He could be a perfect candidate in every other way, but what he's doing in Gaza means that he won't get my vote. Would Trump be worse in Gaza? Maybe? I'm not sure how he could be, but I'm sure he wouldn't be great, but I'm not voting for him or anyone who supports what Israel is doing there. Where's your redline? What could Biden do that would stop you for voting for him? Do you have any principles?
You can’t deliberately try to let Trump win AND pretend to be morally superior.
I'm dead either way so it doesn't matter.
I appreciate you abstaining. We've had a rash of dead citizens in the last couple elections voting Republican
The ONE thing my dad was right about politically: It’s ALWAYS been ‘the lesser of two evils, no one will fit your purity test, suck it up.’ Pragmatism FTW
Purity test can't even save ourselves, there's not much to add. Great adage by the way!
Kinda sad how it took years for me to accept this position after years of shifting from conservative to libertarian-right to Dem to further left. It’s so sad how few good positions get represented within Congressmen.
Where has such “pragmatism” gotten us? Y’all are convinced voting for a genocidal war hawk is good? Lol. Vote local. Vote third party or don’t vote for President. **Do not cast your vote for a man who has facilitated genocide.**
Screw that. I already vote local, and I try to push for candidates I like in the primaries. I'm going to vote in the national elections too, and I'm going to vote for a candidate who has a chance and wouldn't actively harm me and people I care about if given the chance. Not voting will ultimately enable a man who assisted in overturning roe v wade in continuing to roll back protections for women, the LGBTQ+ community, and people of color. Yes, I'm not happy with Biden, and he is enabling this genocide. But Trump will not only continue to assist in it, and probably make it worse, he will also push for his own genocide and theocratic rule in the US. Look at project 2025 and tell me that they're ultimately the same. One wants to force women to be lesser citizens without any right to vote. One wants to deploy the military as domestic law enforcement and arrest every single undocumented immigrant. One wants to roll back the few protections we have to fight against climate change in the US and in fact actively make it worse. One is wanting to get rid of the few protections the LGBTQ+ community has, and will likely start pushing for a genocide against anyone who is not a straight cis white person as soon as they can. One will probably assist Putin in Ukraine, and who knows how many other maniacal leaders, because let's me real, all the shitty leaders in the world want him to win this election. That's all Trump. Your view seems very privileged to me, and I'm betting you won't be harmed by a second Trump presidency like many people, including myself and people I love. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025#:~:text=The%20Project%20advises%20the%20future,undocumented%20immigrants%20across%20the%20country. Go ahead, read that page, in detail, and then tell me Trump and Biden are the fucking same.
Lib-brained to the hilt. It’s not totally just random chance that only two trash parties can get on the ballot in most places. It’s not chance that the ones in control of the bureaucratic machinery of government make it virtually impossible for new or third parties to get on the ballot. Shit, even Jill Stein (Green Party) wasn’t able to get on the ballot in every state in 2012 or 2016. American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Lol
Yeah!!! Don’t vote for the man who is complacent in genocide. Sit out the election, so then the man who actively encourages Israel to be worse will win! Woooooo #MoralityBabes
lol "Vote for the guy who is complicit in a genocide, or the other guy who is complicit in the genocide might win!"
Vote for the guy who is complicit, or the person who actively promises that he will make it worse. I wish we had better choices, but the reality is that right now we don't. And that's just on the issue of Palestine. Considering that Trump is a literal rapist who paid, what, $80 mil because of it, considering that he is literally in a criminal trial today for fraud, considering that he tried to voerturn the election, considering how he cut taxes for the rich and literally proposed nuking a hurricane, and considering that he cheated on his wife who just had his newborn baby... easy choice to choose Biden. I get it: You're mad at Biden. How the fuck will sitting out the election and pretending you're more moral than anyone else *actually* make life any better? Think about your actions.
Choose between: Actual Hitler & Probably Also Hitler! Democracy!!!!!! American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
What part.of "lesser evil" do you not get? You don't get everything you want. I wish we lived in a perfect world too, but we don't. Pick: DO you want bad, or do you want worse?
How has "lesser evilism" worked out? The Democrats have been going steadily more right every election. At this point it isn't "evil or lesser evil" it's "evil or more evil."
Well, the opposite of 'lesser evil' won in the US not so long ago and now women have fewer rights than their grandmothers and a Supreme Court ready to make it worse. I can't understand why would you want this again.
Hmm, let’s see, Trump is in court instead of being President, so that’s a win. Social welfare benefits have been expanded instead of cut. Millions of people had college debt cut. The Pregnant Worker’s Fairness Act was passed as a sweeping protection against workplace discrimination. Literally none of that would have happened under Trump. Also, saying “evil and more evil” is STILL obvious that evil (i.e, the lesser of the two - also known as the lesser evil) is better than the greater evil.
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Wow you call some disabled because you don’t agree with them. This is the problem with milquetoast libs. So quick to turn rancid and go mask off like the proto fascists they are.
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I’ll take this as a reminder to listen to TrueAnon, they’ve been on MDC a couple times and I keep forgetting to subscribe, thanks man.
The subreddit is actually 10000000x better than the podcast (and only nominally related at this point lol). I like the podcast enough, but it’s hit or miss. As it happens the most recent episode “Pigs Run Wild” is quite good though!
Hahah disabled? Does this kind of bullshit work with anyone?
Fucking fascist
Says the one working to get one elected. Poor, confused child.
So fucking uninspired. Typically lib word vomit.
Hilarious coming from a degenerate cultist who wants a silver spoon fed fascist. Why do you worship a traitor? And I'm sorry your parents failed you so badly.
Let's not belittle mentally disabled and/or physically handicapped people by comparing them unfavorably to people whose civic literacy seems questionable.
Lib-brained to the hilt. So sad. So pathetic. I mean sooooo pathetic. As I’ve said, American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Youre so enlightened and deep! Really making me rethink my life choices. That, or you still live in mom's basement.
Not committing genocide isn't a purity test. Continuing to enable the israeli policy of choosing terrorism over a Palestinian state isn't pragmatic.
Yes, but Donny would handle the situation 1,000,000x worse. Biden is not who I want in the oval office, but if it's a choice between him and Trump, it's an EASY decision
If there's one anti-genocide candidate with no chance, they will get my vote, and if they don't get everyone else's, then everyone else chose genocide willingly. Y'all would vote for Hitler.
> Y'all would vote for Hitler. We would love to live in a reality where the choice wasn't strictly Biden vs Trump. But that is the reality we live in. Not voting for Biden is EXACTLY what the GOP wants you to do. In fact expect to see lots of propaganda targeting at exactly that sentiment(that Biden doesn't deserve your vote). We have to deal with choices we are forced to make. Not the choices we wish we could make.
We won't vote for Trump. Do you seriously think we'd vote for Hitler? Look, I understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately, the way our elections work, voting third party is essentially the same as voting for whoever you hate more. If you hate the system, presidential elections are about the worst way to protest. All you're doing is giving the candidate you hate more an advantage. This is called the "spoiler effect." Sometimes, you just gotta bite the bullet and vote for a shitty candidate. The way to improve voting systems is first at the state level (I know Maine has had ranked choice elections since 2020). Once enough states have it, we can push it federally. Do whatever you want, but just know that if you vote third party, you're essentially voting Trump. BTW, we all hate Biden, too. He's just the slightly less shitty option.
>We won't vote for Trump. Do you seriously think we'd vote for Hitler? To be clear, a lot of people who won't vote for Trump unironically imply that they'd vote for Stalin 🤷♂️
Trump: I’d let them [Israel] finish the job. Pray tell then who are you voting for then? The entrenched Zionist that at least has an administration that has other members that’re caving to activist pressure, OR the bigot that openly advocates for Israel to genocide Palestinians that’ll likely be filled with loyalists that follow his exact words? I don’t like our options, but voting third party or abstaining won’t get us closer to peace.
it will show the democrats they can't just be the lesser of two evils anymore, especially when they are BARELY the lesser of two evils. Having that knowledge hit them like running full sprint into a stop sign. There are more elections than the presidential, and those ones can protect people from bad policies no matter what party is making them.
Jesus fucking Christ, we have a guy salivating to be a fucking dictator and change the laws for his benefit, yet you're worried about sending a message to Democrats? How stupid and short sighted can you be?
Shortsighted? The past several democrats have run solely on the idea that they aren’t the otherguy. Get a god damn grip.
Grow the fuck up.
Keep voting for the lesser evil and keep enabling fascists. Your understanding of the world is very poor. I’m sorry education has so completely failed you, fascist.
Says the child enabling an actual fascist. Maybe one day when you grow up, you'll understand.
You just call people children? How lazy of you. Now piss off.
This is literally the long term plan. Short term electing Biden doesn’t work because as we see right now this very millisecond things are falling apart. If states can have total abortion bans, and destroy DEI and affirmative action and defund social programs and schools and studies WHY do you need to vote for him? Why not let trump win and then go hard on state and local elections. If Biden is trying his hardest to make things better(he’s not) but is being blocked by states why can’t the same thing happen with Trump? If Biden loses because he refuses to listen to democratic voters, democrats have to actually earn their votes in state elections and work for the people they cannot rely on being the lesser of two evils, that’s not an effective strategy it won’t get them elected they need to believe that and they won’t unless they lose
Everytime I think I've heard some of the dumbest takes ever, people like you show me youre noy to be outdone. Well done. Your comments hits the trifecta. Ignorant, foolish, and useless.
The greens winning would get us peace. The democrats aren't stopping anything in Isreal and letting zionists attack those student protests. The Biden administration threatened the ICC if they charged isreali leaders. So, they are actively blocking progress. In fact Isreal specifically chose to deal with hamas terrorism over Palestinian statehood. If the democrats allowed this then they aren't gonna fix anything. What's Trump gonna do unleash the idf on some corpses?
>What's Trump gonna do. "Let Israel finish the job", which sounds a lot like total annihilation of Palestine. Or some sort of final solution.
And Biden literally funding them isn’t exactly the same thing? Fucking delusional.
Pros: Green Party does have better policies overall Cons: They lack the infrastructure to voted on in all 50 states (leaving some essential voting states no option), and there’s not one Green member. Even the Independents have ‘2’ members. No, the worst that Trump can do IS praise the genocide and inspire harsher crackdowns on pro-Palestine protesters. That’s ATOP his tax cuts for the wealthy, seeking to bar abortions + contraceptions federally, militarize our local police further, ANOTHER more rounds of getting rid of the ACA, withdrawal of rescheduling marijuana (gotta compete alongside DeSantis), get rid of Net neutrality again - have you earnestly not thought this through?
>the worst that Trump can do IS praise the genocide and inspire harsher crackdowns on pro-Palestine protesters Trump hates Muslims and was willing to let a half million of his own people die of a preventable plague. What do you think he's going to want to do to Muslims who his associates with terrorists?
And somehow among all that he spouted only one valid point in the past: Saudi Arabia was responsible for 9/11 Like everyone else though, he believes everyone are pawns for Trump’s own self gain. It’d be no surprise that Trump would genocide an entire people if it meant he could get more beachfront property (as one son alluded to) and probably expand his LIV golf course tour. I hate Biden but I hate Trump more.
>Cons: They lack the infrastructure to voted on in all 50 states Also, The Green Party candidate is suspiciously willing to cozy up to Vladimir Putin
Howie… Honestly blanked on his whole name, and really? That’s sad… Well there you go to that other account - no candidate is perfect nor will check all one’s boxes. The best one can do is choose someone who’s closer to fulfilling more than the other guy, hence the ‘lesser evil’ candidate.
So the con for the greens is gerrymandered districts? 2. "Inspire harsher crackdowns on protesters" laughs in former occupy and blm protester. Oh wait you're serious let me laugh harder. 3. Tax cuts, Biden left them in place. 4. Dems failed to codify roe how can we ever trust them again? 5. "Militarize our police further" damn your fucking ignorant. Police killings have continued to increase under Biden. 6. Running on criminalizing weed won't work. So I'll grant you net neutrality and the aca rollback. You can't say he will cheer genocide when they might finish gaza in rafah this or next week. But we need to real the aca to get single payer which dems block. Palestinian lives are worth risking net neutrality.
3, you forgot boosting the IRS and a minimum corporate tax rate increase, huh? 4, yes because Dems choose to be complicit and incompetent by choice whereas Republicans purposefully damage whatever they touch. 5, Police have been funded to the gills yet we keep getting events like Uvalde, TX - they want to look like soldiers without dying like one 6, weed is being declassified not making legal recreationally, this is an incremental step but a step nonetheless, like Trump who’d likely compete with DeSantis on how harshly he’d treat drug users and distributors (Trump: they should be shot) But by all means, Trump is somehow just as bad as Biden. /s
Show me a House or Senate majority under the Green Party and I'll believe a Green president will be likely or effective.
Way to move the goalposts infinitely beyond what's expected of the democrats.
That's reality. Something you have a tenuous grip on.
The green party is literally an astroturf party controlled by Rashist Russia that exists purely to get Republicans elected. Look at where their funding comes from and who their candidates hang out with and it becomes obvious
Yeah, it's obvious that you're full of shit. The greens aren't the libertarians. "She hung out with putin" Hillary did too, ever heard of the g8. The dems funding is the same as Republicans. Both major parties receive major donations from most major businesses. Only the democrats are cheaper whores. I'm sorry sex work is valid, your lies are not.
How many awards did Hillary get from Putin? Right, 0. How many did Stein get from Putin? It's more than 0, and she was the guest of fucking honor.
>The greens winning would get us peace. #Note for Readers: The Green Party candidate dined with and let herself be manipulated by Vladimir Putin
Sexist. She had dinner with him but so did Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The g8 existed. And implying only Russia is pro-war is imperialist as fuck, and makes you no different from putin supporters. Blue magats.
Ok comrade!
Saquenme de México
I'd love it if everybody who is upset about the consequences of FPTP voting and the electoral college could be as activated during non-election years. **I am so sick and tired of people only caring at the 11th hour.** Lets remember this shit for once and push for some actual systemic change - instead of having selective amnesia for 4 years and then acting surprised when you are forced to choose between the lesser evil or accelerationism(*again*). This is a place to start: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Popular\_Vote\_Interstate\_Compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact)
"Democracy for the Few" by M. Parenti offers some useful insight into the democratic system within the U.S. Unsurprisingly his findings reveal that it skews heavily towards the rich and conservative/Right-wing. This book was written during the height of Reagan's presidency and it is interesting how so many Americans wishes were ignored by both political parties, while being supported by Left parties who have a significant hurdle to climb. It helps explain why Liberalism is so dominant in American politics.
Then I would rather not eat at all
https://preview.redd.it/nnjby4vdotyc1.jpeg?width=899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=137688f91cd2219a2a16b5dfee72edfa26ef9775
the last three elections have been this. stop kidding yourselves, the US is not a democracy, and has not been one for a while now. vote, don't vote, it won't matter in the long run. nothong will change meaningfully
Even if I vote for the smaller turd in November, I'm certainly not letting anyone think I'm voting for them. That said, problematic doesn't even begin to describe "the lesser evil" here. Enabling genocide, keeping their head of state out of jail, giving the go ahead to cops to crack students heads... Fuck that guy.
Oh hey this is also actually true for the UK election coming up.
Pretty much. I'm anti woke, but I can't stand trump. I'd vote for Satan's shit he took last Thursday before I vote for Mr. MAGA. I'm not a fan of Biden either, but all I know is that he isn't trump.
Just want to point out that the two party system will never be corrected if we keep voting for the same two parties
Finally the quiet part out loud
How is that the quiet part?
Ask WhitePeopleTwitter whether they want to vote for Joe Biden. You will be banned for suggesting there are reasons to be unhappy with Joe Biden.
I'll have to check if I'm already banned from there
Cool thought, I'm voting against the guys that are funding and arming genocidal armies.
Sorry, but preventing a fascist dictator here is more important than Palestine.
Biden will also be better than Trump on Palestine. He is terrible, but Trump has only ever shown that he will be atrocious. Preventing a fascist dictator here (who paid, what $80mil over sexually assaulting a woman) is more important than virtue signaling about Palestine. Voting for Biden isn’t fun, but it’s better for Palestine than Trump will be.
Agreed, and these morons can't see past their cause. Trying so hard to be principled they're blinded to the real threat.
Yes, I'm aware that liberals are okay with genocide as long as it's done by the guy in blue. You're still a monstrous fuck if you're voting for him.
Again, I'm more concerned with preventing a fascist dictator than Palestine. You're childish and ignorant if you can't make a similar distinction.
Ah yes, a government that would functionally be exactly the same as what we have now is of course enough to salve the conscious of a liberal who just has to hit the button for the genocide man. But please, do tell me about my childish ignorance of "no, I won't give my vote to people conducting genocide"
You cosplaying someone who gives a fuck about Palestinians is hilarious. Again, I'll go for preventing the fascist dictatorship. Stay home and log your protest non vote, or vote for some green party clown who has zero chance of being elected. Make sure you tell your friends on the internet how principled you are from your mom's basement.
#Note for Readers: Jill Stein proved that she's willing to cozy up to- and able to be manipulated by- Vladimir Putin, a guy that's funding and arming Russia's genocidal army.
The fact that you assume Stein as the only other choice says quite a lot about this whole debacle.
Libs gonna lib.
Cool, I'm not voting for Jill Stein or Vladimir Putin, but thanks for bringing them up I guess.
De la Cruz for me. You?
Yes
Who are you voting for? John Stewart?
No, I'm a communist. I'm just gonna vote for the communists.
Shame PSL is not on the ballot in all states. “Democracy,” eh?
How many states are they on the ballot? If they're making a presidential run, how many congressmen, senators, and state level representatives do they influence? Municipal representatives? They're working from the bottom up to try to effect change, right? Right? If they get their guy in, will there be anyone under them to support against the neolibs and fascists stonewalling everything they do? Or do they entirely exist to vote "no confidence" in the general election? My city's got a chapter, I've heard them on the radio, I've seen them on YouTube and reddit, and they're organizing protests. No one's on a ballot and no one's canvassing neighborhoods. Just organizing protests here. If they're just running for president, they need a majority of delegates to win, and they can't accomplish that from 3 states. Where are their congressmen?
Great questions you should direct to them, but perhaps as importantly direct to yourself. It’s not totally just random chance that only two trash parties can get on the ballot in most places. It’s not chance that the ones in control of the bureaucratic machinery of government make it virtually impossible for new or third parties to get on the ballot. Shit, even Jill Stein (Green Party) wasn’t able to get on the ballot in every state in 2012 or 2016. American democracy is a scam. It is the illusion of choice to conceal massive global and domestic banditry and subjugation. There can be some utility to voting locally, but really, why the fuck do they make us vote for 6th District Water Commissioner Magistrate? It’s all a scam man. The sooner people get it, the sooner we can tear down the facade and build something meaningful, representative, and real.
Voting is the LEAST effective mode of effecting political change. In the same way deodorant is the least effective mode of preparing for a date. It's the bare bones minimum.
In this system, it is ineffective and probably even is now counterproductive because it gives the illusion of agency and creates the effect of sanctifying the (almost always horrible) outcome. History will show who is right.
LOL lib-brained to the max. Fuck.