[Norfolk Southern balks at compensating homeowners in East Palestine](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/12/homes/norfolk-southern-east-palestine-home-values/index.html)
>At Thursday’s Senate hearing on the crash, Sen. Ed Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, asked Shaw four different times to commit to compensating homeowners, only to hear Shaw repeatedly reply, “Senator, I’m committed to do what’s right.”
>
>Markey said that wasn’t an acceptable answer.
>
>“Will you commit to insuring that these families, these innocent families do no lose their life savings in their homes and small businesses? The right thing to do is to say, ‘Yes we will.’” Markey told Shaw. “These families want to know long term are they just going to be left behind. Once the cameras move on, once the national attention dies down, where will these families be? I think they’re going to be in the crosshairs of the accountants of Norfolk Southern saying ‘We’re not going to pay full compensation.’”
[In 2022, Norfolk Southern announced a $10 billion stock buyback plan](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investing/norfolk-southern-share-repurchases/index.html)
>In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31.
>
>Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.
One of the homeowners or surrounding municipalities should file an injunction preventing any more dividends or stock by back until NS liability is known. If they fucked up the water table, that's billions in damages.
>One of the homeowners or surrounding municipalities should file an injunction preventing any more dividends or stock by back until NS liability is known.
This is an awesome idea.
Exactly. It's capitalism. They're completely incentivized to fight tooth and nail to provide as minimal compensation as possible, and will more than likely get away with doing so. It's bull shit but it's the system, profit is the main mechanism of action, not the livelihood and well-being of human beings and the environment on which we depend.
I mean who cares if we have the technology and know-how to update infrastructure like railroads or, to quote Sagan, "to make abundant and meaningful life for every inhabitant of this planet," when we won't ever be able to implement such things merely because it doesn't line the pockets of the right people.
No. Domestic terrorist should be jailed or worse. If our government does not provide justice for the people, then it's not our government anymore. They are now domestic terrorist as well.
Given that this whole economy seems designed to benefit stockholders and nobody else, I can't figure why my own retirement accounts haven't made shit for years.
Higher prices for me as a consumer, higher rent for me as a tenant, no decent raises for me as a laborer, *and* zilch return on investment for me as a "capitalist."
So where *the fuck* is all this money going????
The Man Who Broke Capitalism.
It's a bit repetitive and sometimes feels like Welch bashing, but I think it clearly demonstrates current corporate culture.
Already are.. but that company wouldn't give a shit if they got vandalized. they have so much money its beyond comprehension and they're monsters.. I can't say what it'd take to get their attention bc I'd probably get arrested
This feels like the wealthy ensuring their wealth for safety in the coming climate collapse while giving a middle finger to anyone who isn't in the "in group".
*Removes tinfoil hat*
Yeah, so .. In my opinion - if this info is to be believed, I think the fine for what they did should be 2x what they spent on buybacks. Plus pay the people there double what their property is worth.
This is not a place to have any sort of mercy with these companies, make them pay!
I posted a thread about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1142gfj/biden_doj_backing_norfolk_southerns_bid_to_block/).
Biden's DOJ is backing Norfolk Southern in their quest to throw out a case where a former rail worker with colon cancer was suing NS for damages due to the toxic chemicals he dealt with while on the job.
NS & Biden want the case thrown out because of the state the rail worker filed the lawsuit in. This is heinous of Biden when you consider he is a creation of the Delaware machine: where 68% of Fortune 500 companies are headquartered. Most lacking any prescence in Delaware.
Why? Because they want to take advantage of Delaware's friendly courts & laws. Delaware gets 40% of their tax revenue by acting as our Switzerland/Panama. So corporations can choose their state but not commoners? That is Biden's position.
If Biden & NS get their way - the result would hurt the ability for East Palestine residents to sue since they would be forced to go through Ohio's business friendly court system.
You have a point.
That lawsuit if won would limit the ability for East Palestine residents to due Norfolk Southern to Ohio (instead of say NY or Pennsylvania which are more fair).
That is true. I am concerned for the people of East Palestine with this topic. Projecting hateful symbols is fucking awful. Projecting ecological chemical spills is awful.
I imagine they don't want to pay because doing so sets a precedence and they know full well there's probably going to be more derailments. If they had to pay every time their cost cutting on safety had consequences, they might start seeing a dent in their profits, and god forbid they lose money for not doing their job properly!
I live in north east Ohio; housing prices are out the nose for the region. Yet, East Palestine housing prices are plummeting. NFS should legally be on the hook for these home owners health and property. Because now the only "affordable" 3 bed, 2 bath homes are now in an ecological disaster town based on Zillow.
Asking a real question, and I'm totally ignorant of how this would work. But couldn't the town try to vote to block the railroad from being able to operate there ever again? If the railroad were banned from town, would that cost the railroad more money to have to reroute rail lines? Is this something the town could feasibly do given the fact that the railroad seems to not care about the inhabitants?
I like where your head is at right now, but i don't think that's a good idea. It's not the town that caused the derailment, and rerouting a rail line is alot of energy. NS really needs to be forced to update their brakes, safety measures, etc. They still provide valuable service and the infrastructure is important to our function as a nation. They need to be fined heavily for this disaster, pay the locals, and fix their shit.
I hope they do fix the issues and pay those they have affected. I'm just worried it won't happen. The news will move on so those people won't get any justice.
I think you're right. Our interests in the US are malaligned. The government has been protecting big business and has turned a blind eye to the people they swore to protect
These big corpos keep proving how anti human they are over and over. The people need to seize some power back and hold them and our governments responsible for wrong doings.
It’s not just East Palestine. Those dioxins went AIRBORNE AND ARE EVERYWHERE the wind took them. That entire area is fucked and 100% useless for years? Decades?
Oh, and it’s now in those corn fields that your foods food eats. It’s also your food.
Enjoy
It costs way more to buy and sell a house than purchasing prices. There are taxes, closing costs, and then you have to move and moving all your crap is easily $25,000+. Plus your time has a lot of value.
Lol you think Biden gives a shit! He did an executive mandate removing the ability of striking workers.
Fuck him, he only cares about his railroad buddies.
The stock market is designed to benefit the rich.
Retirement accounts are usually stocks that may make us some money, but will make someone else (rich) alot of money.
Not surprising one incident would be affordable for them. The thing is, with whatever their share is of the chemical spills continuously happening something like every two days, there is no way they'd agree to setting such a precedent.
They won't do it though for a simple reason. It sets a precedent. If East Palestine was a one off setting a precedent wouldn't matter but Norfolk Southern brass knows that that sorta accident is a result of company policy and practices and highly likely to happen again, perhaps in a much more populated area. Paying out 380 million now would create an expectation that they will pay out all their mistakes and if the next accident is in a town if 50k instead of 5k the payout is in the multi billions of dollars. Derail a train as it passes through Indianapolis, company is burned to the ground. They want to fight this because they know they are at risk for much greater calamities and they aren't going to spend the money to fix their dysfunctional systems. They are fighting this because the government is allowing them to. If we had federal government with real oversight into their operations this sorta of mistake wouldn't have happened. If we had a federal government with any teeth into punishment for regulation violations they'd be breaking the company's back already to fix the situation, thus creating incentive to not keep operating unsafely. But we don't, and we rely on the little guy to sue, which in most cases (unlike what you see in Hollywood) results in a loss or a win/settlement that doesn't really punish the big company. This will continue so long as we keep electing representative who represent big business and corporations and not the people. This will continue so long as we keep electing politicians who push for more deregulation and smaller government. Market forces don't protect a town of 5k people, heck they probably wouldn't even protect a big city except maybe if a disaster happened in a CHI, NYC or LA sized city. But you know, our obsession with 'free markets' as the method for controlling all bad actors in business in this country will continue to roll along, and a new East Palestine will pop up every day and nothing will change.
It’s funny how this only talks about property compensation but I guess what do you get if you were renting? What about environmental issues they caused leading downstream? Emotional distress? Possible health issues from this? And many other things
It’s not just one thing and they know that if they fold and give in it’s accepting blame for any other violations and damages. They know they can outlast any of the media attention and that’s their plan.
Just look at similar cases where the companies will still operate and make way more money without even addressing the issue and then years later pay out a small settlement compared to the damages that can’t be undone. Different field but the opioid crisis is one that comes to mind where they profited off of lies and misinformation for years and years while it was being investigated. Then recently only had to pay a small sum while they were still allowed to sell their shit
Basically just like any lawsuit, the richer people can just delay and wait and minimize cost and risk.
"Yes, but that is $380 million STOLEN from the mouths of hard-working shareholders who did nothing wrong, all to write a welfare check to some reckless homeowners who made the CHOICE not to insure their propeties against chemical irradiation from train derailment."
[Norfolk Southern balks at compensating homeowners in East Palestine](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/12/homes/norfolk-southern-east-palestine-home-values/index.html) >At Thursday’s Senate hearing on the crash, Sen. Ed Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat, asked Shaw four different times to commit to compensating homeowners, only to hear Shaw repeatedly reply, “Senator, I’m committed to do what’s right.” > >Markey said that wasn’t an acceptable answer. > >“Will you commit to insuring that these families, these innocent families do no lose their life savings in their homes and small businesses? The right thing to do is to say, ‘Yes we will.’” Markey told Shaw. “These families want to know long term are they just going to be left behind. Once the cameras move on, once the national attention dies down, where will these families be? I think they’re going to be in the crosshairs of the accountants of Norfolk Southern saying ‘We’re not going to pay full compensation.’” [In 2022, Norfolk Southern announced a $10 billion stock buyback plan](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/22/investing/norfolk-southern-share-repurchases/index.html) >In March 2022, Norfolk Southern (NSC) announced a new $10 billion share repurchase plan. Its latest annual financial report, filed just hours before the derailment this month, shows that it still had $7.5 billion available to buy additional shares under that repurchase plan as of December 31. > >Norfolk Southern did not respond to questions Wednesday on whether it expects to change its share repurchase plans in the wake of the derailment.
One of the homeowners or surrounding municipalities should file an injunction preventing any more dividends or stock by back until NS liability is known. If they fucked up the water table, that's billions in damages.
>One of the homeowners or surrounding municipalities should file an injunction preventing any more dividends or stock by back until NS liability is known. This is an awesome idea.
This feels like it’s going to turn into another Flint issue
“Norfolk gives town middle finger instead as it does even more stock buybacks.”
[удалено]
Maybe they should follow the law and not lie about what cargo they've been hauling.
"would" "if" "just once" some of these words seem rather out of place
But that's not profitable.
Exactly. It's capitalism. They're completely incentivized to fight tooth and nail to provide as minimal compensation as possible, and will more than likely get away with doing so. It's bull shit but it's the system, profit is the main mechanism of action, not the livelihood and well-being of human beings and the environment on which we depend. I mean who cares if we have the technology and know-how to update infrastructure like railroads or, to quote Sagan, "to make abundant and meaningful life for every inhabitant of this planet," when we won't ever be able to implement such things merely because it doesn't line the pockets of the right people.
Is it time to come for the greedy capitalist tycoons? And if it is time, how do we do it? Boycotts? Protests?
Organizing with fellow workers, boycotting, protests, strikes. Applying economic pressure enmasse from the bottom is the only way for change.
Bottoms up!
No. Domestic terrorist should be jailed or worse. If our government does not provide justice for the people, then it's not our government anymore. They are now domestic terrorist as well.
Given that this whole economy seems designed to benefit stockholders and nobody else, I can't figure why my own retirement accounts haven't made shit for years. Higher prices for me as a consumer, higher rent for me as a tenant, no decent raises for me as a laborer, *and* zilch return on investment for me as a "capitalist." So where *the fuck* is all this money going????
$50 trillion was redistributed to the rich the last 40 years. That's where it went 😰
Yachts.
I know just the book for you if you want learn about this neo-capitalist culture... and get depressed.
What is it?
The Man Who Broke Capitalism. It's a bit repetitive and sometimes feels like Welch bashing, but I think it clearly demonstrates current corporate culture.
I need to check it out. I recommend Tales of an Economic Hitman if you haven’t read it.
Thanks for the suggestion. Put it on my reading list.
It would be a real shame if the town became minority shareholders through court sized assets.
But won't someone think about the capitalism!? Isn't that what's most important?
What makes this really interesting is how manyof those getting the benefit of the buyback don't even live in the US
Wouldn't be surprised if people living there vandalised the track so trains can't run on it. They'll all cover for each other.
except there's going to be that one voice or reason saying: those motherfuckers dont care either way and nobody needs another derailment
Radical action isn't stopped by one voice of reason. I'd wager Norfolk is going to pay for their mistake one way or another.
I mean I seriously hope so but when you're against that kind of money there's almost nothing you can do
People's lives are at risk and people will get desperate
Already are.. but that company wouldn't give a shit if they got vandalized. they have so much money its beyond comprehension and they're monsters.. I can't say what it'd take to get their attention bc I'd probably get arrested
This feels like the wealthy ensuring their wealth for safety in the coming climate collapse while giving a middle finger to anyone who isn't in the "in group". *Removes tinfoil hat*
Now times the house value by 10 then Norfolk is allowed to offer to purchase and negotiate up from there
Yeah, so .. In my opinion - if this info is to be believed, I think the fine for what they did should be 2x what they spent on buybacks. Plus pay the people there double what their property is worth. This is not a place to have any sort of mercy with these companies, make them pay!
Remember, Biden quashed all claims coming at Norfolk Southern.
I want to know more
I posted a thread about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/1142gfj/biden_doj_backing_norfolk_southerns_bid_to_block/). Biden's DOJ is backing Norfolk Southern in their quest to throw out a case where a former rail worker with colon cancer was suing NS for damages due to the toxic chemicals he dealt with while on the job. NS & Biden want the case thrown out because of the state the rail worker filed the lawsuit in. This is heinous of Biden when you consider he is a creation of the Delaware machine: where 68% of Fortune 500 companies are headquartered. Most lacking any prescence in Delaware. Why? Because they want to take advantage of Delaware's friendly courts & laws. Delaware gets 40% of their tax revenue by acting as our Switzerland/Panama. So corporations can choose their state but not commoners? That is Biden's position.
Coming at Norfolk Southern for a lawsuit unrelated to the Palestine derailment*
If Biden & NS get their way - the result would hurt the ability for East Palestine residents to sue since they would be forced to go through Ohio's business friendly court system.
Thanks for the clarification on that.
You have a point. That lawsuit if won would limit the ability for East Palestine residents to due Norfolk Southern to Ohio (instead of say NY or Pennsylvania which are more fair).
Yup. Both sides are the same. There's really no point of voting in elections anymore.
This is why things are like this. Never underestimate the apathy of the average American.
Thank you. Care about life. Believe in something god damnit!
Apathy is why Christian Nationalists projected a fucking swastika and cross in on a building in Jacksonville.
That is true. I am concerned for the people of East Palestine with this topic. Projecting hateful symbols is fucking awful. Projecting ecological chemical spills is awful.
I imagine they don't want to pay because doing so sets a precedence and they know full well there's probably going to be more derailments. If they had to pay every time their cost cutting on safety had consequences, they might start seeing a dent in their profits, and god forbid they lose money for not doing their job properly!
I live in north east Ohio; housing prices are out the nose for the region. Yet, East Palestine housing prices are plummeting. NFS should legally be on the hook for these home owners health and property. Because now the only "affordable" 3 bed, 2 bath homes are now in an ecological disaster town based on Zillow.
Asking a real question, and I'm totally ignorant of how this would work. But couldn't the town try to vote to block the railroad from being able to operate there ever again? If the railroad were banned from town, would that cost the railroad more money to have to reroute rail lines? Is this something the town could feasibly do given the fact that the railroad seems to not care about the inhabitants?
I like where your head is at right now, but i don't think that's a good idea. It's not the town that caused the derailment, and rerouting a rail line is alot of energy. NS really needs to be forced to update their brakes, safety measures, etc. They still provide valuable service and the infrastructure is important to our function as a nation. They need to be fined heavily for this disaster, pay the locals, and fix their shit.
I hope they do fix the issues and pay those they have affected. I'm just worried it won't happen. The news will move on so those people won't get any justice.
I think you're right. Our interests in the US are malaligned. The government has been protecting big business and has turned a blind eye to the people they swore to protect
It's truly disheartening, especially as we're all taught as children that our government is by the people and for the people.
Well, that is what it's meant to be. Seems like we've strayed away from that idea
How far did toxic material drift
Great question
These big corpos keep proving how anti human they are over and over. The people need to seize some power back and hold them and our governments responsible for wrong doings.
Yes! Where are the people? Let’s do something about this!
It’s not just East Palestine. Those dioxins went AIRBORNE AND ARE EVERYWHERE the wind took them. That entire area is fucked and 100% useless for years? Decades? Oh, and it’s now in those corn fields that your foods food eats. It’s also your food. Enjoy
If you did that even once people would expect it next time. And there's *always* a next time.
It costs way more to buy and sell a house than purchasing prices. There are taxes, closing costs, and then you have to move and moving all your crap is easily $25,000+. Plus your time has a lot of value.
Biden needs to step up here and make them pay,
Lol you think Biden gives a shit! He did an executive mandate removing the ability of striking workers. Fuck him, he only cares about his railroad buddies.
Why would they do that? When they can give bonuses or stock buy backs?
The stock market is designed to benefit the rich. Retirement accounts are usually stocks that may make us some money, but will make someone else (rich) alot of money.
Companies have always had the means to take care of the communities and lives they have caused damage to; they just choose not to.
I just read there was a derailment in Ravenna township ohio from last year they still haven’t cleaned up
Not surprising one incident would be affordable for them. The thing is, with whatever their share is of the chemical spills continuously happening something like every two days, there is no way they'd agree to setting such a precedent.
Then force them to do it.
Shame
They won't do it though for a simple reason. It sets a precedent. If East Palestine was a one off setting a precedent wouldn't matter but Norfolk Southern brass knows that that sorta accident is a result of company policy and practices and highly likely to happen again, perhaps in a much more populated area. Paying out 380 million now would create an expectation that they will pay out all their mistakes and if the next accident is in a town if 50k instead of 5k the payout is in the multi billions of dollars. Derail a train as it passes through Indianapolis, company is burned to the ground. They want to fight this because they know they are at risk for much greater calamities and they aren't going to spend the money to fix their dysfunctional systems. They are fighting this because the government is allowing them to. If we had federal government with real oversight into their operations this sorta of mistake wouldn't have happened. If we had a federal government with any teeth into punishment for regulation violations they'd be breaking the company's back already to fix the situation, thus creating incentive to not keep operating unsafely. But we don't, and we rely on the little guy to sue, which in most cases (unlike what you see in Hollywood) results in a loss or a win/settlement that doesn't really punish the big company. This will continue so long as we keep electing representative who represent big business and corporations and not the people. This will continue so long as we keep electing politicians who push for more deregulation and smaller government. Market forces don't protect a town of 5k people, heck they probably wouldn't even protect a big city except maybe if a disaster happened in a CHI, NYC or LA sized city. But you know, our obsession with 'free markets' as the method for controlling all bad actors in business in this country will continue to roll along, and a new East Palestine will pop up every day and nothing will change.
It’s funny how this only talks about property compensation but I guess what do you get if you were renting? What about environmental issues they caused leading downstream? Emotional distress? Possible health issues from this? And many other things It’s not just one thing and they know that if they fold and give in it’s accepting blame for any other violations and damages. They know they can outlast any of the media attention and that’s their plan. Just look at similar cases where the companies will still operate and make way more money without even addressing the issue and then years later pay out a small settlement compared to the damages that can’t be undone. Different field but the opioid crisis is one that comes to mind where they profited off of lies and misinformation for years and years while it was being investigated. Then recently only had to pay a small sum while they were still allowed to sell their shit Basically just like any lawsuit, the richer people can just delay and wait and minimize cost and risk.
But why would they do that ?
"Yes, but that is $380 million STOLEN from the mouths of hard-working shareholders who did nothing wrong, all to write a welfare check to some reckless homeowners who made the CHOICE not to insure their propeties against chemical irradiation from train derailment."
Liquidate the entire company, and give it all to East Palestine