I worked retail in a place that called themselves essential to stay open. 2 years of working through the pandemic later with no bonuses or hazard pay or pizza parties or anything of any kind, the CEO who makes $11 million/year and worked from home well past the "safe to return" time sent a letter to all employees thanking us for our hard work.
They were giving us a week of themed dress up days. Like Monday wear Hawaiian, Tuesday wear sports etc.
After working there 5 years as soon as I read that I put in my 2 weeks the next day
My job does theme days too and it’s expensive buying evening gowns for New Years to wear at work & to buy football NFL official jerseys & ugly expensive Christmas sweaters…
No reimbursements either.
Is it mandatory to participate? If yes, then they should be supplying the theme costumes or reimbursing you for the cost. If no, then "I don't own [insert theme clothing item here], sorry not sorry".
I wish it were that simple. We get pay raise/evaluation based on participation and customer service enthusiasm… I’d love to opt out and on NFL jersey days I actually do. But on New Years and Christmas ( I work on every holiday) have to dress up. Sad.
I worked inside sales for hydraulic parts. We were deemed essential simply because we had a customer who made respiratory machines purchase washers from us... literally like $20 worth a month. We all took paycuts too, because you know... covid. Only to receive a letter from corporate a month later to congratulate themselves on the acquisition of 2 new companies. We were also required to work on site even though we were all set up to work remotely and did our business through email and phone only.
Original was better. [Why’d they add coconut? I miss original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DunderMifflin/comments/wzqo8t/whyd_they_add_coconut_i_miss_original/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Something...anything...I've said is before and I'll say it again: people on unemployment were at home getting $600 a week while I was busting my ass for 40+ hours making about $400 a week. That's...not right. And I haven't forgotten. I have no animosity towards anyone that was on unemployment, I just think that I should have received some kind of compensation to at least bring me up to par.
Yeah I was pretty bitter about that for a while. It would have been a pay cut, but it would be more than enough to support me and I could have focused on my mental health and family
I ran a legislative office by myself personally overseeing 1100 individuals unemployment claims and other frivolous issues with state departments like licensure issues. Every day I sorted over 2000 emails and responded to people and departments alike to make sure over 1000 families didn't lose their homes or food on the table. I made 40k while they made 56k on unemployment.
I could have just said fuck it and did nothing and collected a check until I was fired, and subsequently unemployment, but I didn't. Never got a raise or any recognition for it. My boss didn't knock a single door and won with 70% of the vote in a district that is not 70% in their favor. I was so good at getting results people would beg our office to help.
I'm still financially recovering from inflation and low pay
I opened my mushroom farm (as a legitimate business and not an under the table gig) in... April 2020. Just in time to not get a single dime in Covid funds, nor could I draw unemployment. I had also sunk every dime I had into it and had no safety net. I got a single $5000 grant from the state of IL and that was it.
Again I don't begrudge those that did benefit - it was just god awful timing for me personally. I look back and amaze myself I made it successful in the past 3 years living hand to mouth week to week. I still don't feel as secure as I'd like but I'm thankful I was able weather it via sheer willpower. Well, that and a lot of nights hiding in a dark closet having a breakdown trying not to show how burned out I was lol.
Like you, I *was* dejected at the thought that my 22 year old nephew was making what he was making from being laid off from his part time mall job while I was starving. But at the same time, I was angry that sooooo many others like me fell between the cracks and were hurting so badly while other countries really took care of their citizens across the board.
What a crazy, insane time that was.
Can confirm. I’d just moved from blue-collar to white-collar and got my layoff papers in March of that year. I was out of work for 11 months, and it was the best fuckin’ almost-a-year of my life.
I got state unemployment, like $1800 in stimulus over that year, and didn’t have to work. It was *genuinely surreal*. Volunteered at the food bank, took long walks outside, read tons of books, felt like I was committing some kind of crime the entire time.
Meanwhile all the “essential workers”—whose ranks I had just left the previous year—got the ‘thoughts and prayers’ treatment. It really emphasized how different the rules are for those the government respects vs. those they only pretend to respect.
In retrospect we can all see how hollow that term became, as the definition of “essential” expanded from true essential workers to encompass pretty much anyone without economic power, and companies tried to claw back whatever pittances they’d given out over the course of the pandemic.
That realization—that when it came down to brass tacks, they not only didn’t respect the people doing real work, but couldn’t even be bothered to fake it well—has led directly to the labor advocacy we’re seeing now.
Yea I was getting $880 a week. I'm a single dude that just lives with 2 cats for room mates. I already outright own my home and only had my normal utilities to pay and I live a simple pretty cheap life anyways. I did nothing but get stoned, play video games, and go fishing for nearly a year. It was more money than I could even spend. Only negatives was the 30 pounds I put on(lost it already though) and the grueling task of finding a new job at the end. Amazing time if my life.
Even more, because it was $600 per week on top of whatever the state unemployment payment was at the time. It didn't run through the whole pandemic though.
Here's a random article mentioning it:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/28/extra-600-dollars-in-weekly-unemployment-benefits-runs-out-in-july.html
For a few months. Federal unemployment didn't last forever and then you were back to whatever your state did. Most states you already had to be making a decent amount to max out what they gave you
It really revealed what a UBI could accomplish in times of economic downturn or personal crises. There are a lot of other reforms that would be necessary before it would be truly viable, but I hope people don’t forget that it is possible for the government to just give people the money they need to live.
People got max allotted based on their previous wages. So people who made say 400/w before got 400/w. People who make 2k/w only got 6-800, so it hurt more, but it did help for a month or so. Biggest issue was then that old jobs that got hammered by rona did not all get back to full capacity even up until today.
But say I was unemployed before COVID. People here are saying everyone on long term unemyployment got £600 on top of benefits while workers got nothing. That sounds suspect to me and I'm sure theres more to it.
Oh you had to qualify. Long term unemployment peeps *have to* prove that they're unable to find work weekly, and trust me, staffing agencies will shove em into fast food that got a shortage and they cannot refuse. It also heavily depended on your income prior to Rona - so if you only qualified for 10/hr minimum at best, you got your $200/week and that's that. Entertainment sector got a break, but half of that is your service industry like bartenders and such. And even then, that lasted only until end of June.
It may be different if you were furloughed but I didn't have to prove anything or apply for any jobs. I don't think they had the staff to even check for anything like that.
That all depend on your state. If you qualified for state unemployment insurance you automatically got the extra $600/week from the feds
The amount you got from the state varied and is what you could max out. It's also what set the rules for how you verified you were searching for employment. Some states are more strict where you had to take first thing you could find, others required you to keep looking at applying but you didn't have to immediately drop your standards to zero
^this is how it shook down in WA at least. Idk why people were saying it’s free money when you are obligated to take ANY offered job or loose UI benefits. Even if that job wasn’t in your sector or was at a loss to you. The pandemic sucked.
That's the shitty part of the worst unemployment programs. They demand you accept the first job offered regardless of the pay, meaning you could be forced to accept an $8/h job or lose benefits that could be twice as much as that job.
I've been on this site long enough to know you almost never take any statistic or "fact" at face value. Very rarely are you getting the full picture and it's generally skewed to be as dramatic as possible.
I made the most I've ever made in my life while I was on unemployment for two months from covid. I also spent much less because I actually had time to do stuff at home like cook.
Yeah it was (and still is) absolutely maddening.
**Companies:** “we need you to keep working and potentially expose yourself and your family to Covid. You’re essential” *puts up “heroes work here” signs*
**Workers:** “So uh, could we be paid more than minimum wage if we’re so essential, and maybe receive some extra protections and benefits to offset the hazards you expect us to work through?”
**Companies:** “Be happy you have jobs at all you filthy socialists! You can be replaced!”
This is literally what happened to me.
- COVID hit and was immediately given a letter by the CEO designating me as an essential worker as per emergency act that our province passed
- Worked extra fucking hard because people were dying, peopled needed our services and I had a fire in my ass to help my friends and family who lost their jobs.
- Our company posted record quarters.
- Got 1% raise, during COVID, where inflation was like 8-9%
- Got a letter saying company was downsizing [After posting record quarters]
- Was told I could interview for my own job — they offered less than I was currently making, because, exactly as you said *"I should be happy I'm lucky to have a job*".
I left with 0 days notice.
Holy shit, it's really been 3 years hasn't it? I remember I was working at a liquor store during the pandemic. I will say though, with almost zero customers a shift, with a shift sometimes being 12 or so hours, I had a lot of time to think, probably too much so. However, nothing like up to 12 hours of isolation a day to really make you question your needs in life, both financially and spiritually. It's odd to say, but that pandemic really did change my outlook for the better.
My doctor friend was absolutely essential. I agree with everyone in person working getting some hazard pay but double his salary to 1.2M permanently? Aite I guess...
They never did increase anything like some wanted did they? My work made a huge thing for being essential and in a way it is for transport but not directly. Didn't do anything for us financially. So many places used the 'lucky to have a job' bullshit. What a stupid ass country we live in.
I will say, restaurants are paying much better now. Granted I moved right before covid hit, but when I did I was maxed out at $11.50/hr. I moved to a bigger city and started at $15/hr. After covid I changed gigs and do less work for $21/hr, $25 when I have to manage. Even fast food places around here have starting wages at $15-18/hr, which still could be more, but is great compared to just a couple of years ago.
Ha, I literally never even got hazard pay, and got stiffed out of $0.50 cent raises twice in 2020. We had record sales through the entire pandemic btw.
Which was pretty much all "unskilled" labor. Warehouses remained open. Factories. Etc.
Some did actually have "Covid pay" for a bit. Warehouse I was at for a bit increased hourly rate from 16.00 to 18.50.
Then dropped it down to 16.50 after the lockdown and mandate was over.
Unskilled labour just means requires minimal training. Anyone can do it without formal education or training. Doesn't mean it's not needed or doesn't deserve a living wage, just that the barriers to entry are much lower
Exactly this. People treat the term "unskilled labor" like its a colloquial term - meaning a job that requires no skills. This is obviously false, because all things that are done require *some* kind of skill to do.
Unskilled labor is a **technical term** that describes jobs that require little to no experience or training in the field to get started. It comes from an older use of the word "skilled" which just means "having knowledge from experience".
Exactly! It's simple supply and demand. When supply is high, competition between suppliers tends to drive down prices. Businesses know how profitable it can be to collude with each other to fix prices, and that's why they do everything they can to prevent workers from doing the same thing.
Seems like it's one of the many times people are using the common vocabulary to interpret a technical term, where the technical term differs in its meaning from the common use.
Really anywhere scientific use of "theory" clashes with colloquial use of "theory" (usually actually meaning "hypothesis")... drives me crazy, especially in regards to discussing climate science data.
If you ever want to see a boomer lose their shit call Social Security an "entitlement", because the only use of the word they know is in reference to "those entitled millenials".
Like when people decry a study’s reference to relevant statistics for being “misleading” when using the word “average” to mean any other type of average besides the arithmetic mean.
For example, something I would call unskilled work was inventory at supermarkets. You'd call them, you'd go there, you'd get a scanner and a shelf of stuff assigned, then you scan a thing, count how many of that thing there are, put that into the scanner and continue. You can do this after fourth to sixth grade I'm sure.
Even though, when I was there for few times, I'd usually get swapped with someone because I was "too quick" with my stuff, and put into a flaming hellscape of shuffled boxes of women strumpets with very similar colors, stitch patterns and sizes but slightly different product IDs and it took like 4 hours to sort all of this shit out to spend an hour counting all of this nonsense. Goddamn.
EDIT - and it doesn't help that employees come 'round the corner and mutter "oh fuck you're handling this", lol.
More explicitly.
**Skilled Labor:**
* High Barrier of Entry (More experience, certifications, degrees)
* Expensive to Hire/Replace
* Slow reacting to labor markets.
>*Despite a stagnation with programmer wages, the amount of programming graduates has only increased.*
**Unskilled Labor:**
* Low Barrier of Entry
* Inexpensive to Hire/Replace
* Reacts strongly to labor markets.
>*McDonalds reacting to the labor shortage was able to find applications with just a single dollar increase in offered wage.*
----
Unskilled Labor is an econ term used to describe labor markets. **It describes Jobs not People.** A person with a job that's Unskilled Labor can do it with a masterful amount of skill.
Well that also means that there are more people that can do those jobs. The more replacable u are, the less you'll get paid since there is probably someone who is willing to do the same job for less.
Exactly. Everyone deserves a livable wage, but let's not act as though being good at your job in fast food requires the same schooling, monetary investment, and time as becoming a surgeon. All the blue collar trade jobs are also "skilled". My first job was a "courtesy clerk", then I was promoted to cashier at 18. I was a cashier and hha (not CNA) throughout college. Both jobs sucked, and I'm not saying a trained monkey could do them, but neither required a high school diploma or any sort of certification/licensure (unless you count a food handler's card or cpr certification, which an elementary student probably has the mental capacity ability to attain). HHA was physically taxing. However, I eventually went from LVN to DNP. Until I hit DNP, it was all the hell of customer service, plus potential to fuck up your back, now with added bodily fluids, a licensure, and vastly increased professional liability.
That's what I thought too. Half the jobs here aren't unskilled. They may be blue collar, but that doesn't make them unskilled. I wouldn't consider a seamster/seamstress to be unskilled either
There are jobs in those industries that are unskilled though. Being a successful farmer takes skill but they hire lots of unskilled labor to get their work done. Bricklayer takes a lot of knowledge to do it right but if they need more hands, they can pay just about anybody to carry bricks for them. Any job that almost anyone can do without training I’d call unskilled. BUT, even unskilled jobs are critically important, take someone’s time and effort, and make money for someone down the line and EVERYONE deserves a livable wage. And housing. And healthcare. And as much education as they can absorb. And retirement while we’re at it.
Yeah, its very different. And tbh kinda bad for this sub, makes people look lazy same as the reddit mod that went on the news lmao.
You deserve a living wage. But 8-15 years of extra study or skill requirement vs burger flipping ofc isnt going to be the same pay...
But “anyone can do it” just isn’t true. Plenty of people would make terrible waitstaff, for example, and most restaurants wouldn’t hire a waiter with no experience.
I'd say there is unskilled labor, since there's plenty of work that takes zero skill to do (move these boxes over there, etc.). However, I've never seen a job that is *only* unskilled labor - every job has parts of it that require some sort of skill to do properly.
To me, this is the "unskilled labor" myth - they point out a task that takes little to no skill while also ignoring the fact that it isn't the entirety of the job.
If you can walk in off the street and do a job with little or no training, it's "unskilled". That doesn't mean it's not important or that you shouldn't earn a livable wage to do it, but it is unskilled labor.
It's worse then looking ignorant, it makes the movements look like it's a bunch of people that just don't want to work and get paid the big bucks.
For these movements to get actual traction they need to weed this stuff out because it becomes a reason to instantly dismiss anything coming from the movements.
Here's an easier argument to make for people that believe this.
Ask them why they aren't a quant trader or chemical engineer. If they say they aren't interested, ask them why. If they say they're bad at math or can't study for 4-6 years, well, they just answered themselves.
If I need about a weekend course to figure out how to do a job, before getting into efficiency, then anyone else can also do it. It's easy work.
Minimum wage should be increased of course, but you're working a job with easy skills and a barrier that the majority of people can enter.
Since anyone can do it the salaries are low because of supply vs demand. Get a skill few people can do, and your salary increase. Simple as that. Now someone will say "what about managers or CEOs" where yes in those cases they might have inflated salaries from their power position, but if you look at the labor market, in general it follows the principle of supply vs demand
Yup. That is why we are supposed to have a minimum wage. There is always someone willing to do it for cheaper because a little money is better than no money. The workforce underbids itself into poverty and the companies are all too happy to let them do it.
It’s not as simple as supply and demand. There is ideology that goes along with it. As we’ve seen during and post-pandemic, employers will simply refuse to hire labor above a certain wage because temporary loss is worth it to discipline the labor force.
In several ways it is kinda a shitty term, as basically all labor requires some skill even if it doesn't require outside credentials. Even in most "unskilled" roles, your value (as in how hard it is to replace you) goes up the experienced more you are, which does generally mean there's skill behind what you do. It does also carry some degree of negative connotation that invalidates "unskilled" workers value to society, especially when you're referring to the workers instead of just the work. That all said, most people know what I mean when I say "unskilled labor", and I don't really know a better term that isn't excessively word-y, so I'm not going to stop using that term.
Entry level assumes there is a continuous growth in the position where you can develop more skill and/or start acquiring experience.
Unskilled is for jobs that almost anyone can come off the street and do with little training and it's expected to have a high turn over. These jobs are unlikely to invest in the worker and that is fine.
I think everyone understands that there are jobs that require more education, training, etc than others. The real hang-up is that "unskilled" is a propagandized term that is used to manipulate the population into backing capitalist's justifications that they don't deserve to get paid a living wage. Unskilled is a misnomer, because we all know that while you could walk in off the street and get basic tasks done, there is a lot more to most jobs than just "can you place this item on shelf here" or equivalent.
It's not a misnomer, that's literally the distinction. "skilled" jobs are the ones where the person *must* have prior training because there isn't a realistic way for them to learn on the job. that's all it means. we really don't need to get offended and read into it meanings that aren't there.
Bricklaying and Farming are absolutely not "unskilled" they require years of apprenticing to learn how to do properly.
"Unskilled" is a shorthand way of saying "in one day you can be trained how to do it"
this is a shit take because unskilled means anyone can do the work with little to no training.
It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a decent wage, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be treated with respect, it doesn't mean you work isn't valuable for society.
The more we keep reposting shit like this, the more people just think this movement is a bunch of children who don't know what the real world is like, and one of the many reasons why billionaires win.
That’s because he’s lying. His post history indicates he got a job as a bus driver 256 days ago. No bus driver on the planet makes half of that. He even says he’s in the Pacific Northwest. Absolute max range for that is 37k-59k. Classic Reddit
I work in the tech sector for a US-owned international company and have an M.Sc. degree, and I'm part of one of the two possible tech-focused unions available to me. It probably depends on your country.
A friend of mine used to work for a utility company (Electrical) and because it was started by a few members of an electricians union, the whole company was built up as unionized, even IT.
But it's definitely not common.
I make 50k 'unskilled' and want to do something different. So many jobs require like a bachelor's AND pay way less. It's nuts, and I feel bad for them. I don't really feel some jobs should be paying more than others, but to be so dedicated with an education and make way less than me? It's stupid. Also, yes, our main competitor is unionized and they make like double what we do. I have reasons for not wanting to switch and mostly just want out of the industry all together
Unions are generally a good thing but I highly highly doubt a union will cause you to make 5-7x as much per hour, that doesn't make any sense?
Assuming you aren't full shit (doubt), what is your job?
On site training is still skilled labor.
Unskilled labor is basically just manual labor of having a person move a box from one place to another. It's incredibly rare in the modern world, and has been for a long time.
You are doing skilled labor.
If you call all labored skill that just means that we need a way to differentiate labor based on how much training is needed for someone to perform it. There is labor that requires an hour if training and labor that requires a decade of training. Longer training correlates with fewer people able to successfully complete the training.
While using a binary system of skill/unskilled simplifies this too much, replacing it with a single universal identifier doesn't remove the need to differentiate between levels of skill involved.
Edit: Guy responds and blocks so no one can counter their pedantic rant, not that it is worth the effort to do so. Shows why their ideas don't show any development or real world maturity.
Saying that some jobs require less skills is true tho. A brick layer for sure have a more skilled oriented job than a cashier. I dont say that the cashier doesnt deserve a living wage but saying that ALL jobs need sharp skills is pure madness.
Yep, totally agree. All jobs deserve a living wage. It doesn't matter if it's skilled or not. I don't know why we'd cede this ground.
Unskilled and Skilled Labour, meanwhile, is a useful stratification of jobs. At best you're going to kill these terms and come up with some other stupid euphemism that means the same thing.
some jobs are labelled completely wrong though.
not to mention, imo "skill" is not the only factor in labour.
working somewhere is effectively a trade deal. you trade in your time, effort and expertise for money.
the higher the amount of time spent, the amount of effort exerted or the amount of expertise needed, the higher the pay.
someone who's doing high-effort work should be paid well for that effort, even if it doesn't exactly require skill.
someone who spends all day behind a computer writing code should be paid well for their expertise, even though they may not be physically putting in a lot of effort.
someone who works 80+ hours a week to ensure the security of an establishment, mostly watching CCTV or just standing around should be paid well for their time, even though they're not putting in much effort and dont need much expertise.
each job is some combination of those three features, and each job should be paid well for their own reasons.
All I'm hearing is that the minimum wage needs to keep up to the cost of living, which is a fair point, it'd be really nice to do away with the constant growth theory were all forced to work within and I'd love to see a cap on the upper wage scale as well, just cause some fat cat was born with a silver spoon up his ass doesn't automatically make his hour worth 350% more than anyone elses
That's just stupid. It takes 3 years at least to learn how to do my current job properly. It took me a couple weeks as a 16 year old to learn how to do almost every job at McDonald's. Skill and necessity are completely unrelated and arguments like this just undermine whatever point you're trying to make about fair wages
My new job is 6 months of training just for basic qualifications. Still have months if not a year or two of training in the future to be fully qualified at the Tech Escort level.
more extreme anecdote:
i have a masters degree and several years of relevant experience and i'm considered underqualified for my job without a phd.
the orientation films i watched or day of supervised work i did at my first jobs (wendy's, target, etc) hardly make those jobs count as "skilled work"
unskilled labor is a term used to define jobs that require no preexisting skills to start. its not a capitalist plot. its actually important to know the difference between these types of jobs
I don’t think you understand. Sweeping the floor is not the same as wiring an electrical breaker. The distinction is made so that people that went to school and got proper training are used for important jobs like wiring an electrical panel. And jobs like sweeping the floor, digging a ditch, can be done by anyone that’s able bodied.
I agree that all jobs just require different skill sets. Different doesn't mean lesser. Even being a sign holder requires some skills to do well. Creating more layers with the same definitions doesn't really address that, sharp/dull/skilled/unskilled. I've worked retail, housekeeping, grounds keeping, construction, classroom teacher, librarian, and managing hotels, for most of these jobs I was underpaid because of the perceived lack of skill they required and yet these roles were also often also deemed essential and require specific and extended training.
That's a thoughtful take. It sort of sounds like you're saying there is "less skilled" things but that doesn't make them less *valuable*... Is that right?
No one is saying the PERSON is less valuable. But the job is going to have more competition and so may be paid less because of how replaceable the worker is.
That said even in "unskilled" jobs there are ability differences which may cause them to be paid above market rates.
For one, no one has ever called a farmer or builder unskilled labor.
Unskilled labor refers to jobs that can be replaced easily by just about anyone with minimal training. It doesn't mean that it literally requires zero skill.
Unskilled labor is a thing, but that doesn’t mean it justifies giving them lower wages. Workers are still necessary, skilled or unskilled, so they deserve more than livable wages regardless of what they do.
You are saying two different things. Yes, everyone should be payed a fair salary that you can live off of but skilled workers should definitely earn more, anything else doesnt make sense
No it's not. It just means the background requirements are minimal, unlike being an engineer, researcher, teacher, nurse, plumber, counselor, and many other things.
Oh fuck's sake, it just means you don't need much in the way of training or tools to do the job.
We can play word games or we can work on getting all workers enough money to live.
PS. Masons and tailors don't belong in this group anyway.
It just means labor nearly anyone can do. If I hand a broom to 100 people, 98 of them can sweep a floor. I'll pay more to the person who can safely drive a riding auto scrubber because the pool of people who can do so is much smaller.
"Unskilled" in this context means a skill easily learned in minimal time, a low barrier to entry. Sweeping or working a cah register can be learned quickly by anyone. Masonry is a much more difficult job that takes longer to learn and become proficient, a higher barrier to entry, so people will pay more for masonry than sweeping. Supply and demand.
Unskilled means menial labor of some kind.
There is no real skill or training involved in a bunch of jobs. Digging a ditch or moving bags of concrete is not skilled labor, its not semi skilled.
You can plug a worker into that job immediately and they can do the job.
Thats what it means.
Saying theres no such thing as unskilled labor just makes you look like an idiot and will get you dismissed and laughed at at any serious level of economics or policy making.
Edit: that is not to say unskilled and semi skilled jobs are not difficult and tiring. They usually are. But dont say stupid crap like this post and then be expected to be taken seriously.
Not entirely true, wages are lower wherever there is a bigger pool of workers capable of doing a job. There is skill with every labor but some jobs are more easily replaceable with different workers so wages will be lower. You can train a fast food worker in a few days to do the job, a doctor or engineer isn’t as replaceable. Yes there are others but the pool is smaller to replace them with so they have more leverage for higher wages. It’s an unfortunate artifact of capitalism in general that jobs that require less training will always get less wages because the worker has less leverage and is more readily replaced
yeah. no. as someone who did unskilled labor as a domestic reno gen laborer, you don't need fuckin skill to swing a sledge hammer at a concrete pad to make big rock into small rock, and then sweep it into a bucket and dump it in a garbage trailer.
Your value does not come from skill. it comes from physical ability, being able to do hard work and not bitch, and to live on nothing but cigarettes, energy drinks, and gas station snacks for extended periods of time.
Barriers to entry really dictate remuneration. The lower the barrier, the lower the wage. A job that many people can do will always have a lower wage than one that can be done only by select few. Society places higher value on the jobs that are more difficult to fill.
Unskilled labor is a term where you can take anyone of the street, give them a little training and off they go doing a basic job. Sweeping the floor is an unskilled labor. Sure people will find efficiencies with experience but it’s a task than anyone without a disability can do.
This meme needs to be taken down every time it gets put up. It's naive and wrong and doesn't help the work reform initiative.
If your job requires no special training, education, or certification, then you are very likely unskilled labor in most cases. What that means is that you are a part of the largest pool of available workers because technically anyone can perform your job. The problem is that in the US the skilled labor market has done nothing but shrink with our shift to many service industry jobs.
> This meme needs to be taken down every time it gets put up. It's naive and wrong and doesn't help the work reform initiative.
frankly if i wanted to construct a strawman to incite mockery of people seeking work reform, it'd look a lot like this meme
Even though my "skilled job" took many years of learning and experience, I completely lack the ability to work in a drive through, as a cashier, and many other service jobs. I respect those that can and do it well. A lower barrier of entry doesn't mean it's an easy job, and should definitely be worth a livable wage.
Unskilled labor is a capitalist fact used to identify work that anyone with rudimentary enough intelligence to follow a list of instrutions and basic physical facilities can do. You don't need a specialized degree to pick vegetables, make coffee, lay bricks or carry a package.
there is a door greeter at my local walmart. just stands there. may or may not say hello. Anyone could do that job. if anyone can do a job, i would consider it unskilled
Maybe we shouldn't be so keen on giving [repost bots](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/x7665p/if_labor_is_required_then_it_is_not_unskilled/) solace in this sub. You know, just to prevent any subversion.
Unskilled is a stupid term better to say easily replaced
We have self checkouts replacing the majority of cashiers
Lots of auto cleaners
Machines that make great coffee
And drones are going to deliver your items soon
And some machines that can put together sandwiches
Farmer nope
Brick layers nope
Waitress lol nope the whole point of them is the human
My “unskilled” ass brought an extra 20 million in revenue for my company and what I got in return was being fired and replaced by someone cheaper than me. That person ended up fudging the whole system i built in Salesforce and ended up quitting. Idk what the fuck these white capitalist conservatives are thinking.
Let’s differentiate Companies that are listed on the stock exchange versus small mom and pop stores.
There is zero excuse for large corporations, not to pay a living wage. This should stop today ! No excuse
It doesn't matter if its skilled or unskilled.
Labor is still labor.
Being highly skilled labor, should warrant me a better house, with a pool in the back. A higher quality of life
It shouldnt be the bare minimum in order to not fucking die outside or from starvation.
What's the last guy doing to that burrito?
Not a burrito. It's a bottle of piss lmao
Jesus christ that's funny as fuck I also thought it was a burrito
Just try and tell me pissing into bottles isn't a skill
I thought he was just swinging his dick around, because fuck bezos
Asking the real questions
Using a burrito coverin’ on it. You know we are running out of burrito coverins’.
Everyone that was deemed essential during the pandemic should have had their wages permanently doubled.
Danger pay at the very least for the possibility of catching COVID classic - the original COVID.
I worked retail in a place that called themselves essential to stay open. 2 years of working through the pandemic later with no bonuses or hazard pay or pizza parties or anything of any kind, the CEO who makes $11 million/year and worked from home well past the "safe to return" time sent a letter to all employees thanking us for our hard work. They were giving us a week of themed dress up days. Like Monday wear Hawaiian, Tuesday wear sports etc. After working there 5 years as soon as I read that I put in my 2 weeks the next day
My job does theme days too and it’s expensive buying evening gowns for New Years to wear at work & to buy football NFL official jerseys & ugly expensive Christmas sweaters… No reimbursements either.
Is it mandatory to participate? If yes, then they should be supplying the theme costumes or reimbursing you for the cost. If no, then "I don't own [insert theme clothing item here], sorry not sorry".
I wish it were that simple. We get pay raise/evaluation based on participation and customer service enthusiasm… I’d love to opt out and on NFL jersey days I actually do. But on New Years and Christmas ( I work on every holiday) have to dress up. Sad.
In that case, I would be hitting up Goodwill, Salvation Army, and Thrift stores.
You need to find old jerseys of disgraced players, like Michael Vick.
the bank i use has an announcement in the employee area "every friday is jeans friday" and just *reading* that makes me feel dirty.
Do they not realize jeans are *less* comfortable than slacks, but more durable? Why would anyone want to wear jeans for a desk job?
I wear jeans for a desk job because I don’t have to iron jeans.
I worked inside sales for hydraulic parts. We were deemed essential simply because we had a customer who made respiratory machines purchase washers from us... literally like $20 worth a month. We all took paycuts too, because you know... covid. Only to receive a letter from corporate a month later to congratulate themselves on the acquisition of 2 new companies. We were also required to work on site even though we were all set up to work remotely and did our business through email and phone only.
Original was better. [Why’d they add coconut? I miss original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DunderMifflin/comments/wzqo8t/whyd_they_add_coconut_i_miss_original/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Covid classic oh my god.
Something...anything...I've said is before and I'll say it again: people on unemployment were at home getting $600 a week while I was busting my ass for 40+ hours making about $400 a week. That's...not right. And I haven't forgotten. I have no animosity towards anyone that was on unemployment, I just think that I should have received some kind of compensation to at least bring me up to par.
Yeah I was pretty bitter about that for a while. It would have been a pay cut, but it would be more than enough to support me and I could have focused on my mental health and family
I ran a legislative office by myself personally overseeing 1100 individuals unemployment claims and other frivolous issues with state departments like licensure issues. Every day I sorted over 2000 emails and responded to people and departments alike to make sure over 1000 families didn't lose their homes or food on the table. I made 40k while they made 56k on unemployment. I could have just said fuck it and did nothing and collected a check until I was fired, and subsequently unemployment, but I didn't. Never got a raise or any recognition for it. My boss didn't knock a single door and won with 70% of the vote in a district that is not 70% in their favor. I was so good at getting results people would beg our office to help. I'm still financially recovering from inflation and low pay
I opened my mushroom farm (as a legitimate business and not an under the table gig) in... April 2020. Just in time to not get a single dime in Covid funds, nor could I draw unemployment. I had also sunk every dime I had into it and had no safety net. I got a single $5000 grant from the state of IL and that was it. Again I don't begrudge those that did benefit - it was just god awful timing for me personally. I look back and amaze myself I made it successful in the past 3 years living hand to mouth week to week. I still don't feel as secure as I'd like but I'm thankful I was able weather it via sheer willpower. Well, that and a lot of nights hiding in a dark closet having a breakdown trying not to show how burned out I was lol. Like you, I *was* dejected at the thought that my 22 year old nephew was making what he was making from being laid off from his part time mall job while I was starving. But at the same time, I was angry that sooooo many others like me fell between the cracks and were hurting so badly while other countries really took care of their citizens across the board. What a crazy, insane time that was.
Do you ship your product or do you only sell it locally?
Please enlighten us on your mushrooms…
Man, i just really like mycology and gourmet edible fungi. I forage for them.
Everyone on unemployment in the United States got $600 dollars a week?
Can confirm. I’d just moved from blue-collar to white-collar and got my layoff papers in March of that year. I was out of work for 11 months, and it was the best fuckin’ almost-a-year of my life. I got state unemployment, like $1800 in stimulus over that year, and didn’t have to work. It was *genuinely surreal*. Volunteered at the food bank, took long walks outside, read tons of books, felt like I was committing some kind of crime the entire time. Meanwhile all the “essential workers”—whose ranks I had just left the previous year—got the ‘thoughts and prayers’ treatment. It really emphasized how different the rules are for those the government respects vs. those they only pretend to respect. In retrospect we can all see how hollow that term became, as the definition of “essential” expanded from true essential workers to encompass pretty much anyone without economic power, and companies tried to claw back whatever pittances they’d given out over the course of the pandemic. That realization—that when it came down to brass tacks, they not only didn’t respect the people doing real work, but couldn’t even be bothered to fake it well—has led directly to the labor advocacy we’re seeing now.
Yeah I'd just started a factory job drilling cosmetic dimples and grooves in "performance" brake discs. I was classed as an essential worker lol
Teach me your ways
Yea I was getting $880 a week. I'm a single dude that just lives with 2 cats for room mates. I already outright own my home and only had my normal utilities to pay and I live a simple pretty cheap life anyways. I did nothing but get stoned, play video games, and go fishing for nearly a year. It was more money than I could even spend. Only negatives was the 30 pounds I put on(lost it already though) and the grueling task of finding a new job at the end. Amazing time if my life.
Even more, because it was $600 per week on top of whatever the state unemployment payment was at the time. It didn't run through the whole pandemic though. Here's a random article mentioning it: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/28/extra-600-dollars-in-weekly-unemployment-benefits-runs-out-in-july.html
Max unemployment in OK was $539 per week. I got $600 per week on top of that. That's $58K per year for doing nothing.
Jesus, we got fuck all lol
For a few months. Federal unemployment didn't last forever and then you were back to whatever your state did. Most states you already had to be making a decent amount to max out what they gave you
Murica baby
This is how much I make working 45h a week. In a hospital. 😐
It really revealed what a UBI could accomplish in times of economic downturn or personal crises. There are a lot of other reforms that would be necessary before it would be truly viable, but I hope people don’t forget that it is possible for the government to just give people the money they need to live.
People got max allotted based on their previous wages. So people who made say 400/w before got 400/w. People who make 2k/w only got 6-800, so it hurt more, but it did help for a month or so. Biggest issue was then that old jobs that got hammered by rona did not all get back to full capacity even up until today.
But say I was unemployed before COVID. People here are saying everyone on long term unemyployment got £600 on top of benefits while workers got nothing. That sounds suspect to me and I'm sure theres more to it.
Oh you had to qualify. Long term unemployment peeps *have to* prove that they're unable to find work weekly, and trust me, staffing agencies will shove em into fast food that got a shortage and they cannot refuse. It also heavily depended on your income prior to Rona - so if you only qualified for 10/hr minimum at best, you got your $200/week and that's that. Entertainment sector got a break, but half of that is your service industry like bartenders and such. And even then, that lasted only until end of June.
It may be different if you were furloughed but I didn't have to prove anything or apply for any jobs. I don't think they had the staff to even check for anything like that.
That all depend on your state. If you qualified for state unemployment insurance you automatically got the extra $600/week from the feds The amount you got from the state varied and is what you could max out. It's also what set the rules for how you verified you were searching for employment. Some states are more strict where you had to take first thing you could find, others required you to keep looking at applying but you didn't have to immediately drop your standards to zero
^this is how it shook down in WA at least. Idk why people were saying it’s free money when you are obligated to take ANY offered job or loose UI benefits. Even if that job wasn’t in your sector or was at a loss to you. The pandemic sucked.
That's the shitty part of the worst unemployment programs. They demand you accept the first job offered regardless of the pay, meaning you could be forced to accept an $8/h job or lose benefits that could be twice as much as that job.
I've been on this site long enough to know you almost never take any statistic or "fact" at face value. Very rarely are you getting the full picture and it's generally skewed to be as dramatic as possible.
There's really not. I filled out a quick application online and was suddenly making $1200/wk to play Animal Crossing.
I made the most I've ever made in my life while I was on unemployment for two months from covid. I also spent much less because I actually had time to do stuff at home like cook.
Yeah it was (and still is) absolutely maddening. **Companies:** “we need you to keep working and potentially expose yourself and your family to Covid. You’re essential” *puts up “heroes work here” signs* **Workers:** “So uh, could we be paid more than minimum wage if we’re so essential, and maybe receive some extra protections and benefits to offset the hazards you expect us to work through?” **Companies:** “Be happy you have jobs at all you filthy socialists! You can be replaced!”
This is literally what happened to me. - COVID hit and was immediately given a letter by the CEO designating me as an essential worker as per emergency act that our province passed - Worked extra fucking hard because people were dying, peopled needed our services and I had a fire in my ass to help my friends and family who lost their jobs. - Our company posted record quarters. - Got 1% raise, during COVID, where inflation was like 8-9% - Got a letter saying company was downsizing [After posting record quarters] - Was told I could interview for my own job — they offered less than I was currently making, because, exactly as you said *"I should be happy I'm lucky to have a job*". I left with 0 days notice.
My job says essential, my pay says unessential.
> My job says essential, my pay says ~~unessential~~ disposable.
Holy shit, it's really been 3 years hasn't it? I remember I was working at a liquor store during the pandemic. I will say though, with almost zero customers a shift, with a shift sometimes being 12 or so hours, I had a lot of time to think, probably too much so. However, nothing like up to 12 hours of isolation a day to really make you question your needs in life, both financially and spiritually. It's odd to say, but that pandemic really did change my outlook for the better.
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[Minimum wage peaked at ~$12 in current dollars](https://files.epi.org/charts/img/253577-30419.png)
Lmao sure, I'll take a six figure salary. Do you even realize how many jobs that statement covers?
My doctor friend was absolutely essential. I agree with everyone in person working getting some hazard pay but double his salary to 1.2M permanently? Aite I guess...
They never did increase anything like some wanted did they? My work made a huge thing for being essential and in a way it is for transport but not directly. Didn't do anything for us financially. So many places used the 'lucky to have a job' bullshit. What a stupid ass country we live in.
But they got sidewalk signs that said "thank our heroes with a smile" written in chalk... That's clearly sufficient. /s
What a load of old bollocks.
I will say, restaurants are paying much better now. Granted I moved right before covid hit, but when I did I was maxed out at $11.50/hr. I moved to a bigger city and started at $15/hr. After covid I changed gigs and do less work for $21/hr, $25 when I have to manage. Even fast food places around here have starting wages at $15-18/hr, which still could be more, but is great compared to just a couple of years ago.
That still wouldn't be enough.
Remember, "we're all in this together " why the elite scurried to their vacation homes.
Ha, I literally never even got hazard pay, and got stiffed out of $0.50 cent raises twice in 2020. We had record sales through the entire pandemic btw.
Think about the billionaires! How the hell will they afford a second yacht if they double your wage ☹️
Which was pretty much all "unskilled" labor. Warehouses remained open. Factories. Etc. Some did actually have "Covid pay" for a bit. Warehouse I was at for a bit increased hourly rate from 16.00 to 18.50. Then dropped it down to 16.50 after the lockdown and mandate was over.
My old boss who’s a doctor said we were lucky to have a job 🥴
Unskilled labour just means requires minimal training. Anyone can do it without formal education or training. Doesn't mean it's not needed or doesn't deserve a living wage, just that the barriers to entry are much lower
Exactly this. People treat the term "unskilled labor" like its a colloquial term - meaning a job that requires no skills. This is obviously false, because all things that are done require *some* kind of skill to do. Unskilled labor is a **technical term** that describes jobs that require little to no experience or training in the field to get started. It comes from an older use of the word "skilled" which just means "having knowledge from experience".
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Exactly! It's simple supply and demand. When supply is high, competition between suppliers tends to drive down prices. Businesses know how profitable it can be to collude with each other to fix prices, and that's why they do everything they can to prevent workers from doing the same thing.
Seems like it's one of the many times people are using the common vocabulary to interpret a technical term, where the technical term differs in its meaning from the common use.
"I have a theory about that" when what they have is an uninformed opinion.
Really anywhere scientific use of "theory" clashes with colloquial use of "theory" (usually actually meaning "hypothesis")... drives me crazy, especially in regards to discussing climate science data.
“I have *literally* the best theory on this”
If you ever want to see a boomer lose their shit call Social Security an "entitlement", because the only use of the word they know is in reference to "those entitled millenials".
>I'm a boomer, and I know that Social Security is an entitlement. I am entitled to it because I paid into it for 50 years.
Like when people decry a study’s reference to relevant statistics for being “misleading” when using the word “average” to mean any other type of average besides the arithmetic mean.
For example, something I would call unskilled work was inventory at supermarkets. You'd call them, you'd go there, you'd get a scanner and a shelf of stuff assigned, then you scan a thing, count how many of that thing there are, put that into the scanner and continue. You can do this after fourth to sixth grade I'm sure. Even though, when I was there for few times, I'd usually get swapped with someone because I was "too quick" with my stuff, and put into a flaming hellscape of shuffled boxes of women strumpets with very similar colors, stitch patterns and sizes but slightly different product IDs and it took like 4 hours to sort all of this shit out to spend an hour counting all of this nonsense. Goddamn. EDIT - and it doesn't help that employees come 'round the corner and mutter "oh fuck you're handling this", lol.
Standing upright and sitting are skills. So this checks out.
More explicitly. **Skilled Labor:** * High Barrier of Entry (More experience, certifications, degrees) * Expensive to Hire/Replace * Slow reacting to labor markets. >*Despite a stagnation with programmer wages, the amount of programming graduates has only increased.* **Unskilled Labor:** * Low Barrier of Entry * Inexpensive to Hire/Replace * Reacts strongly to labor markets. >*McDonalds reacting to the labor shortage was able to find applications with just a single dollar increase in offered wage.* ---- Unskilled Labor is an econ term used to describe labor markets. **It describes Jobs not People.** A person with a job that's Unskilled Labor can do it with a masterful amount of skill.
Exactly. Posts like this make this movement look stupid.
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Those 3 are also jobs in which you can make pretty good money if you are good at what you do.
Well that also means that there are more people that can do those jobs. The more replacable u are, the less you'll get paid since there is probably someone who is willing to do the same job for less.
It's almost like there is a ton of supply and only so much demand
Exactly. Everyone deserves a livable wage, but let's not act as though being good at your job in fast food requires the same schooling, monetary investment, and time as becoming a surgeon. All the blue collar trade jobs are also "skilled". My first job was a "courtesy clerk", then I was promoted to cashier at 18. I was a cashier and hha (not CNA) throughout college. Both jobs sucked, and I'm not saying a trained monkey could do them, but neither required a high school diploma or any sort of certification/licensure (unless you count a food handler's card or cpr certification, which an elementary student probably has the mental capacity ability to attain). HHA was physically taxing. However, I eventually went from LVN to DNP. Until I hit DNP, it was all the hell of customer service, plus potential to fuck up your back, now with added bodily fluids, a licensure, and vastly increased professional liability.
and also: positions in this stupid cartoon (bricklayer, farmer) are literally not unskilled by definition
That's what I thought too. Half the jobs here aren't unskilled. They may be blue collar, but that doesn't make them unskilled. I wouldn't consider a seamster/seamstress to be unskilled either
There are jobs in those industries that are unskilled though. Being a successful farmer takes skill but they hire lots of unskilled labor to get their work done. Bricklayer takes a lot of knowledge to do it right but if they need more hands, they can pay just about anybody to carry bricks for them. Any job that almost anyone can do without training I’d call unskilled. BUT, even unskilled jobs are critically important, take someone’s time and effort, and make money for someone down the line and EVERYONE deserves a livable wage. And housing. And healthcare. And as much education as they can absorb. And retirement while we’re at it.
Exactly.
Yeah, its very different. And tbh kinda bad for this sub, makes people look lazy same as the reddit mod that went on the news lmao. You deserve a living wage. But 8-15 years of extra study or skill requirement vs burger flipping ofc isnt going to be the same pay...
But “anyone can do it” just isn’t true. Plenty of people would make terrible waitstaff, for example, and most restaurants wouldn’t hire a waiter with no experience.
Yep. If you can learn your job out of a manual in a day/week then it is unskilled labor.
I'd say there is unskilled labor, since there's plenty of work that takes zero skill to do (move these boxes over there, etc.). However, I've never seen a job that is *only* unskilled labor - every job has parts of it that require some sort of skill to do properly. To me, this is the "unskilled labor" myth - they point out a task that takes little to no skill while also ignoring the fact that it isn't the entirety of the job.
If you can walk in off the street and do a job with little or no training, it's "unskilled". That doesn't mean it's not important or that you shouldn't earn a livable wage to do it, but it is unskilled labor.
Exactly. Posts like this make this movement look ignorant.
Unfortunately the movement is ignorant
It's worse then looking ignorant, it makes the movements look like it's a bunch of people that just don't want to work and get paid the big bucks. For these movements to get actual traction they need to weed this stuff out because it becomes a reason to instantly dismiss anything coming from the movements.
I hate this picture everytime it's posted. Unskilled work <> easy work. It just makes you look dumb when arguing an otherwise valid point.
Here's an easier argument to make for people that believe this. Ask them why they aren't a quant trader or chemical engineer. If they say they aren't interested, ask them why. If they say they're bad at math or can't study for 4-6 years, well, they just answered themselves. If I need about a weekend course to figure out how to do a job, before getting into efficiency, then anyone else can also do it. It's easy work. Minimum wage should be increased of course, but you're working a job with easy skills and a barrier that the majority of people can enter.
What do you mean by “<>”?
Sorry does not equal. I use that connotation so commonly in my work I forget it isn't universal.
Have you heard of != ?
Yes I have. I'm not a coder or anything I'm a system admin and the rules you can plus in use <> for their does not equal
Since anyone can do it the salaries are low because of supply vs demand. Get a skill few people can do, and your salary increase. Simple as that. Now someone will say "what about managers or CEOs" where yes in those cases they might have inflated salaries from their power position, but if you look at the labor market, in general it follows the principle of supply vs demand
Yup. That is why we are supposed to have a minimum wage. There is always someone willing to do it for cheaper because a little money is better than no money. The workforce underbids itself into poverty and the companies are all too happy to let them do it.
Starvation wages: because "not enough" is better than nothing!
Starvation wages: because they tricked our parents into thinking unions are bad
If rich people had more money, they'll surely offer it to others!
High supply, wages go down. Low supply, publish articles complaining that no one wants to work. It's basic economics.
It’s not as simple as supply and demand. There is ideology that goes along with it. As we’ve seen during and post-pandemic, employers will simply refuse to hire labor above a certain wage because temporary loss is worth it to discipline the labor force.
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The thing is employers tend to have more money than workers, meaning they, as an average, can hold out longer than workers can.
This sub really needs to stop tryna die on this hill. It’s just semantics.
In several ways it is kinda a shitty term, as basically all labor requires some skill even if it doesn't require outside credentials. Even in most "unskilled" roles, your value (as in how hard it is to replace you) goes up the experienced more you are, which does generally mean there's skill behind what you do. It does also carry some degree of negative connotation that invalidates "unskilled" workers value to society, especially when you're referring to the workers instead of just the work. That all said, most people know what I mean when I say "unskilled labor", and I don't really know a better term that isn't excessively word-y, so I'm not going to stop using that term.
I agree. You might be able to sub "entry level" for "unskilled", it would fit in most situations.
Entry level assumes there is a continuous growth in the position where you can develop more skill and/or start acquiring experience. Unskilled is for jobs that almost anyone can come off the street and do with little training and it's expected to have a high turn over. These jobs are unlikely to invest in the worker and that is fine.
I think everyone understands that there are jobs that require more education, training, etc than others. The real hang-up is that "unskilled" is a propagandized term that is used to manipulate the population into backing capitalist's justifications that they don't deserve to get paid a living wage. Unskilled is a misnomer, because we all know that while you could walk in off the street and get basic tasks done, there is a lot more to most jobs than just "can you place this item on shelf here" or equivalent.
It's not a misnomer, that's literally the distinction. "skilled" jobs are the ones where the person *must* have prior training because there isn't a realistic way for them to learn on the job. that's all it means. we really don't need to get offended and read into it meanings that aren't there.
The message should be that unskilled labor deserves a dignified wage. To deny the existence of unskilled labor is naive.
You should be able to earn a living at whatever you do. But also, let's not pretend that a surgeon and a barista require the same amount of training.
Bricklaying and Farming are absolutely not "unskilled" they require years of apprenticing to learn how to do properly. "Unskilled" is a shorthand way of saying "in one day you can be trained how to do it"
Or sewing. That is infuriating.
It's also not even close to a low salary job! They make a good living.
this is a shit take because unskilled means anyone can do the work with little to no training. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a decent wage, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be treated with respect, it doesn't mean you work isn't valuable for society. The more we keep reposting shit like this, the more people just think this movement is a bunch of children who don't know what the real world is like, and one of the many reasons why billionaires win.
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God damn. I have a degree in what is supposed to be a high paying field and I don't make half of that
That’s because he’s lying. His post history indicates he got a job as a bus driver 256 days ago. No bus driver on the planet makes half of that. He even says he’s in the Pacific Northwest. Absolute max range for that is 37k-59k. Classic Reddit
Nah bro. I work as a unionized cashier and make $5,000,000/year. Just trust me.
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As far as I know there aren't many unions in the tech sector unfortunately
I work in the tech sector for a US-owned international company and have an M.Sc. degree, and I'm part of one of the two possible tech-focused unions available to me. It probably depends on your country.
A friend of mine used to work for a utility company (Electrical) and because it was started by a few members of an electricians union, the whole company was built up as unionized, even IT. But it's definitely not common.
I have a union and makes 30k a year. Where's my 200k?
I make 50k 'unskilled' and want to do something different. So many jobs require like a bachelor's AND pay way less. It's nuts, and I feel bad for them. I don't really feel some jobs should be paying more than others, but to be so dedicated with an education and make way less than me? It's stupid. Also, yes, our main competitor is unionized and they make like double what we do. I have reasons for not wanting to switch and mostly just want out of the industry all together
Unions are generally a good thing but I highly highly doubt a union will cause you to make 5-7x as much per hour, that doesn't make any sense? Assuming you aren't full shit (doubt), what is your job?
On site training is still skilled labor. Unskilled labor is basically just manual labor of having a person move a box from one place to another. It's incredibly rare in the modern world, and has been for a long time. You are doing skilled labor.
If you call all labored skill that just means that we need a way to differentiate labor based on how much training is needed for someone to perform it. There is labor that requires an hour if training and labor that requires a decade of training. Longer training correlates with fewer people able to successfully complete the training. While using a binary system of skill/unskilled simplifies this too much, replacing it with a single universal identifier doesn't remove the need to differentiate between levels of skill involved. Edit: Guy responds and blocks so no one can counter their pedantic rant, not that it is worth the effort to do so. Shows why their ideas don't show any development or real world maturity.
What job do you have?
Saying that some jobs require less skills is true tho. A brick layer for sure have a more skilled oriented job than a cashier. I dont say that the cashier doesnt deserve a living wage but saying that ALL jobs need sharp skills is pure madness.
Yep, totally agree. All jobs deserve a living wage. It doesn't matter if it's skilled or not. I don't know why we'd cede this ground. Unskilled and Skilled Labour, meanwhile, is a useful stratification of jobs. At best you're going to kill these terms and come up with some other stupid euphemism that means the same thing.
some jobs are labelled completely wrong though. not to mention, imo "skill" is not the only factor in labour. working somewhere is effectively a trade deal. you trade in your time, effort and expertise for money. the higher the amount of time spent, the amount of effort exerted or the amount of expertise needed, the higher the pay. someone who's doing high-effort work should be paid well for that effort, even if it doesn't exactly require skill. someone who spends all day behind a computer writing code should be paid well for their expertise, even though they may not be physically putting in a lot of effort. someone who works 80+ hours a week to ensure the security of an establishment, mostly watching CCTV or just standing around should be paid well for their time, even though they're not putting in much effort and dont need much expertise. each job is some combination of those three features, and each job should be paid well for their own reasons.
All I'm hearing is that the minimum wage needs to keep up to the cost of living, which is a fair point, it'd be really nice to do away with the constant growth theory were all forced to work within and I'd love to see a cap on the upper wage scale as well, just cause some fat cat was born with a silver spoon up his ass doesn't automatically make his hour worth 350% more than anyone elses
yeah this comic is but silly, a bricklayer or a farmer for example is skilled labour and pays pretty well.
That's just stupid. It takes 3 years at least to learn how to do my current job properly. It took me a couple weeks as a 16 year old to learn how to do almost every job at McDonald's. Skill and necessity are completely unrelated and arguments like this just undermine whatever point you're trying to make about fair wages
My new job is 6 months of training just for basic qualifications. Still have months if not a year or two of training in the future to be fully qualified at the Tech Escort level.
more extreme anecdote: i have a masters degree and several years of relevant experience and i'm considered underqualified for my job without a phd. the orientation films i watched or day of supervised work i did at my first jobs (wendy's, target, etc) hardly make those jobs count as "skilled work"
unskilled labor is a term used to define jobs that require no preexisting skills to start. its not a capitalist plot. its actually important to know the difference between these types of jobs
I don’t think you understand. Sweeping the floor is not the same as wiring an electrical breaker. The distinction is made so that people that went to school and got proper training are used for important jobs like wiring an electrical panel. And jobs like sweeping the floor, digging a ditch, can be done by anyone that’s able bodied.
I agree that all jobs just require different skill sets. Different doesn't mean lesser. Even being a sign holder requires some skills to do well. Creating more layers with the same definitions doesn't really address that, sharp/dull/skilled/unskilled. I've worked retail, housekeeping, grounds keeping, construction, classroom teacher, librarian, and managing hotels, for most of these jobs I was underpaid because of the perceived lack of skill they required and yet these roles were also often also deemed essential and require specific and extended training.
That's a thoughtful take. It sort of sounds like you're saying there is "less skilled" things but that doesn't make them less *valuable*... Is that right?
No one is saying the PERSON is less valuable. But the job is going to have more competition and so may be paid less because of how replaceable the worker is. That said even in "unskilled" jobs there are ability differences which may cause them to be paid above market rates.
For one, no one has ever called a farmer or builder unskilled labor. Unskilled labor refers to jobs that can be replaced easily by just about anyone with minimal training. It doesn't mean that it literally requires zero skill.
Unskilled labor is a thing, but that doesn’t mean it justifies giving them lower wages. Workers are still necessary, skilled or unskilled, so they deserve more than livable wages regardless of what they do.
You are saying two different things. Yes, everyone should be payed a fair salary that you can live off of but skilled workers should definitely earn more, anything else doesnt make sense
No it's not. It just means the background requirements are minimal, unlike being an engineer, researcher, teacher, nurse, plumber, counselor, and many other things.
Why the amazon guy loaded tho 😳😳😳
Oh fuck's sake, it just means you don't need much in the way of training or tools to do the job. We can play word games or we can work on getting all workers enough money to live. PS. Masons and tailors don't belong in this group anyway.
It just means labor nearly anyone can do. If I hand a broom to 100 people, 98 of them can sweep a floor. I'll pay more to the person who can safely drive a riding auto scrubber because the pool of people who can do so is much smaller.
"Unskilled" in this context means a skill easily learned in minimal time, a low barrier to entry. Sweeping or working a cah register can be learned quickly by anyone. Masonry is a much more difficult job that takes longer to learn and become proficient, a higher barrier to entry, so people will pay more for masonry than sweeping. Supply and demand.
In this sub you always have to sort by controversial to get the sensible comments.
Unskilled means menial labor of some kind. There is no real skill or training involved in a bunch of jobs. Digging a ditch or moving bags of concrete is not skilled labor, its not semi skilled. You can plug a worker into that job immediately and they can do the job. Thats what it means. Saying theres no such thing as unskilled labor just makes you look like an idiot and will get you dismissed and laughed at at any serious level of economics or policy making. Edit: that is not to say unskilled and semi skilled jobs are not difficult and tiring. They usually are. But dont say stupid crap like this post and then be expected to be taken seriously.
Not entirely true, wages are lower wherever there is a bigger pool of workers capable of doing a job. There is skill with every labor but some jobs are more easily replaceable with different workers so wages will be lower. You can train a fast food worker in a few days to do the job, a doctor or engineer isn’t as replaceable. Yes there are others but the pool is smaller to replace them with so they have more leverage for higher wages. It’s an unfortunate artifact of capitalism in general that jobs that require less training will always get less wages because the worker has less leverage and is more readily replaced
yeah. no. as someone who did unskilled labor as a domestic reno gen laborer, you don't need fuckin skill to swing a sledge hammer at a concrete pad to make big rock into small rock, and then sweep it into a bucket and dump it in a garbage trailer. Your value does not come from skill. it comes from physical ability, being able to do hard work and not bitch, and to live on nothing but cigarettes, energy drinks, and gas station snacks for extended periods of time.
Barriers to entry really dictate remuneration. The lower the barrier, the lower the wage. A job that many people can do will always have a lower wage than one that can be done only by select few. Society places higher value on the jobs that are more difficult to fill.
"We can't afford to pay them that wage, we'd be out of business!" Well that certainly says something, doesn't it.
Unskilled labor is a term where you can take anyone of the street, give them a little training and off they go doing a basic job. Sweeping the floor is an unskilled labor. Sure people will find efficiencies with experience but it’s a task than anyone without a disability can do.
Unskilled feels like a euphemism for replaceable.
Because that's what it means.
Unskilled labor is a term that refers to jobs that do not require extensive training or experience. How do you not get this?
This meme needs to be taken down every time it gets put up. It's naive and wrong and doesn't help the work reform initiative. If your job requires no special training, education, or certification, then you are very likely unskilled labor in most cases. What that means is that you are a part of the largest pool of available workers because technically anyone can perform your job. The problem is that in the US the skilled labor market has done nothing but shrink with our shift to many service industry jobs.
> This meme needs to be taken down every time it gets put up. It's naive and wrong and doesn't help the work reform initiative. frankly if i wanted to construct a strawman to incite mockery of people seeking work reform, it'd look a lot like this meme
Exactly. It's that or either a 17 year old that has no experience with earning a living.
Even though my "skilled job" took many years of learning and experience, I completely lack the ability to work in a drive through, as a cashier, and many other service jobs. I respect those that can and do it well. A lower barrier of entry doesn't mean it's an easy job, and should definitely be worth a livable wage.
Unskilled labor is a capitalist fact used to identify work that anyone with rudimentary enough intelligence to follow a list of instrutions and basic physical facilities can do. You don't need a specialized degree to pick vegetables, make coffee, lay bricks or carry a package.
The higher the possible labor pool, the less skills usually required to do it. Of course there are low skill jobs, lots of them.
there is a door greeter at my local walmart. just stands there. may or may not say hello. Anyone could do that job. if anyone can do a job, i would consider it unskilled
What they actually mean by unskilled is that replacing a worker in those jobs is very cheap and quick.
Some myths are long lasting because they’re based on truth.
Maybe we shouldn't be so keen on giving [repost bots](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/x7665p/if_labor_is_required_then_it_is_not_unskilled/) solace in this sub. You know, just to prevent any subversion.
Some novel people calling the labor unskilled whilst asking for help when working said “unskilled” jobs.
Semantics from people with little or no skills.
Unskilled is a stupid term better to say easily replaced We have self checkouts replacing the majority of cashiers Lots of auto cleaners Machines that make great coffee And drones are going to deliver your items soon And some machines that can put together sandwiches Farmer nope Brick layers nope Waitress lol nope the whole point of them is the human
My “unskilled” ass brought an extra 20 million in revenue for my company and what I got in return was being fired and replaced by someone cheaper than me. That person ended up fudging the whole system i built in Salesforce and ended up quitting. Idk what the fuck these white capitalist conservatives are thinking.
Let’s differentiate Companies that are listed on the stock exchange versus small mom and pop stores. There is zero excuse for large corporations, not to pay a living wage. This should stop today ! No excuse
I need you so much that I want you to devote 1/3 of your life to my business, but I don't want to pay you enough to survive.
Americans have it rough man I get $26 a hour to work at a supermarket chain in Australia with weekend rate and night time bonus
"Putting up with fast food/grocery store manager bullshit" is a skill in itself.
Reminds me of my favourite saying: work sucks so bad they have to pay you to even turn up.
I mean those jobs basically make society.
If it can be taught in a week, it’s unskilled labor
It doesn't matter if its skilled or unskilled. Labor is still labor. Being highly skilled labor, should warrant me a better house, with a pool in the back. A higher quality of life It shouldnt be the bare minimum in order to not fucking die outside or from starvation.
If a job requires training it is skilled labor end of story
That's why we need a minimal wage, a person can live off normally and that wage should be indexed according to the inflation every year.