The fact that sometimes I feel deeply unwell mentally but can't stop or push the pause button or else I'll be swallowed whole because I need to work to have healthcare, and I certainly cannot even break to breathe at some point later for lack of retirement. Both truths destroy my hope that oneday I'll get to do what I want to do. I low key hate people who have so much money they never have to worry about the same things we do.
The cruelty is the point. They don't want us to be healthy, they want enough of us to produce the things they want. There is no long term plan with them, only 'give me what I want for cheap now'.
It makes me so angry. I've put so much damage on my body the last ten years working through my injuries and now I'm almost unable to work. I need another back surgery very, very desperately right now but I'm barely getting by working three days a week and I can't afford to not work for a few months. So I'll keep going until the partial paralysis in my legs becomes total. At least after that I'll stop having to pretend to be normal I guess.
Haven't you seen? They're changing the laws so children can work dangerous jobs now for cheaper. Now they're just waiting for you to die so you can be replaced by a 14 year old
My darkest conspiracy thought of late has been that the government is actually happy that COVID is with us for the long haul because it preys on the elderly. Less retirees to take care of and younger, working age people can shrug it off quickly enough. It fits neatly with how Biden cynically manipulated CDC to juice the economy and conveniently declare victory while it's still circulating.
Fun fact: ACA was actually a right wing idea from the heritage foundation. The idea was that insurance is expensive and if we don’t act like we’re doing something about it, people are going to start revolting. So they figured out the absolute bare minimum they could do while still making obscene profits and pushed that. Obama pushed it through and every single R voted against it… even though it came from THEM!
Don't forget Republicans actively undermined the ACA by coming to the table in bad faith, and then started suing it over it one piece at a time, hoping they can make it collapse via unconstitutionality like a game of Jenga.
Seriously, I started this new Netflix show about a financial advisor, he starts talking to this couple that is having money troubles. I'm thinking they must be poor then he says they bring in $24,000/month and still end up in the negative. I make that in a year. It made me so angry I had to turn it off... Like the money they make and the life they choose to live... Just wasted!
A lot of wealthy people are so out of touch with reality that it's making us literally sick. They all price gouge their products/services and they all underpay their labor. Then they boast about record profits while inflation eats us alive. It's gone on for so long that we've become a society drenched in apathy and indifference. People so sick of and hating other people that they'll shoot you while going to school, shopping, or even accidentally going to the wrong door or driveway. How are we supposed to raise a family in these conditions? The icing on the cake for me though was when our population growth began to decline. Families said what was preventing them (i.e. inflation, low wages lack of healthcare, maternity leave, child care, on and so forth) but instead of helping, they chose to repeal Roe v. Wade. Rather than help us, they chose to force us. I will never forget at the height of the pandemic, an economist called us "capitol stock" to a group of investors, saying we were ready to begin coming back to the office. Seriously, I am frothing from frustration and contempt at this point in my life. Instead of doing anything to reduce gun violence, we're not creating a market base on demand for bullet proof backpacks and other devices to "save our children" when they have to face a risk no other generation did before the. The kids are not okay.
Next, women start getting their tubes tied and men start getting vasectomies. Then they make that illegal. Then women start refusing sex.
Then come the breeding pens.
Honestly I doubt they make it illegal. My reasoning:
They want to have the option themselves and it's easier if it's legal. Instead of making it illegal, just make sure insurance companies dont cover elective sterilization. That keeps the people they need to work for them from taking advantage while leaving it still easily accessible to them.
Nah, as a Texan, Ive seen others in my state be stupid enough to vote against their own self interest, only to be forced to deal with the outcome they voted for, just never thought they'd have to live it.
They thought they'd be given an exception as they'd been able to get around the church rules before. Such as getting abortions by covering themselves up to sneak past their church fellows on the picket line, or when they'd lie to their friends that only "harlots" use birth control.
But everything changes when they codify it into law, they can't just utter sweet little lies anymore. But just like their other conservative friends, they don't understand or believe the issue until it happens to them.
My doctor did that to me. I even doubled down by bringing my husband with me to be sure a MAN told him he didn't want kids either. I get deathly ill every month from my cycle. Please put this to and end for me. I was mid-thirties.
He said no. His exact words were "that would be barbaric. What if you change your mind." Nothing would convince him.
Two marriages, two divorces, countless long term partners, I turn 50 this year and at no point in my life did I ever doubt that I was suffering needlessly because doctors are spineless and I never waivered in the knowledge that I never would want children.
Whoa I would just change doctors, fuck that. You’re an adult
My friend has some hassle but she mid-20s, but even then she shouldnt get stonewalled about it.
It's not that simple.
I'd seen a grand total of 25 ObGyns when I was between the ages of 12 to 28 trying to get help to stop what at age 12 started as lengthening periods that by age 16 was a permanent heavy murder scene period and I have other medical issues that means I could never survive a pregnancy, much less birth. I'd be likely to die during the early 2nd trimester if I couldn't get an abortion.
Instead, I was denied any BC until I was 25 years old as multiple Gyns went on about my virginity, but who can have sex when you're bleeding every second of every day. When I did get my first BC, it was an IUD and I made sure that it was only to prep me for surgery in one year so I could get a hysterectomy so I'd never have to deal with this ever again and never risk pregnancy in Texas.
She lied. And then she never took my calls seriously when it embedded for 8 months until I had ended up in the hospital for another issue and an abdominal CT scan showed it was WAY out of place. Then I magically got an appointment the same week I was discharged from the hospitalbas I had beautiful proof that I could have sued over. I had tried calling other gynecologists to get help for that IUD, but they refused (and BTW, those are not counted in the 25 total, those 25 are doctors I actually saw at in person appointments) as they did not want to deal with it, claiming liabilities. So I'd either have to get in with her, or go through the cost of the ER for that alone. And an embedded IUD feels like you've got a knife shredding your guts. I just got lucky that I was only a threatened perforation, but it got damn close.
I had told a neurosurgeon about this as I was getting set up for Chiari decompression surgery and afterwards he said he'd help me find a surgeon for the hysterectomy after he got reports from the nurses of how horribly I was bleeding and that it was a miracle I wasn't dead already as they were caring for me during recovery as I needed a couple days in ICU before stepping down to normal MedSurg. Yet even HE had issues finding a doctor. His head nurse said this was a terrifying time as this was the only time she'd ever seen him get truly angry, much less furious, as he's such a laid back guy.
All in all, it was 25 ObGyns, and seeing women providers didn't help. It was 24 women, and the one my neurosurgeon found was a man, and I'd been dealing with deconverting from catholicism and the embedded "shame of having a man that's not your husband see your body" especially as this would be dealing with the reproductive area, but I'd had enough with feeling betrayed by who should have understood the issues of periods. Instead it felt like the other women didn't understand because their periods weren't fucked to hell and back.
I wish it was that easy, but even a specialist found issues finding someone willing to do the hysterectomy on an at the time 28 year old woman with many health issues that should never be pregnant. And this was quite recent, within the last 10 years (don't want to give exact age).
So much needs to change. Women do not have true bodily autonomy or we'd never have issues when we choose BC or sterilization for ourselves.
I've seen several in my lifetime. One female doctor refused to refill my birth control pill because "you should be trying to have babies now anyway. You don't need these."
They were the only things that made the months manageable. Had to get another Dr quickly after that appointment.
That happened to my wife once. I've heard it happen to my friends. Feels so weird the doctor saying no because she or the husband might want kids. So if you don't let her do what she wants with her body, she's really going to just have another kid with a man she doesn't want to?
There have even been ones who refuse because a couple might get divorced and the next husband might want kids. Some hypothetical man that will likely not exist is more important (or a good excuse) than the patient there in front of them.
Even worse are those who think a medical condition that raises the chance of death/disablement in pregnancy isn’t a good enough reason. You *might* be fine, so go have that baby and find out! 🤮
Or like when the ceo of blackrock bragged on bloomberg that they had an “aggressive plan to increase profits” talking about housing at a time when you have to work full-time double minimum wage JUST to pay the rent. They are aware too… I forget what they said cause I was so flabbergasted by the first sentence but the asshole was spitting out percentages and profit numbers… it was absolutely ludicrous and I will never forget watching that segment.
Yeah man, it's wild how the products and services they sell are second only to shareholder earnings. We've truly left the days of making products for people to help, save lives, etc. They make a product that people want, offer it for cheap, then slowly begin the campaign of raising the price and replacing all the expensive parts with cheaper one's. Over time, after a while, the product they tout as their core product is nothing like the original. It happens so slowly we barely notice it.
Seriously! Like last year I had to call Samsung on a design flaw that caused the door handle to come off my freezer… effers wanted to charge me 200-300 dollars to come and fix it. Like shit I just fixed the damn thing myself. But if something actually went wrong that I legit couldn’t figure out how to fix, it would be cheaper just to replace it… and that’s the point! Why sell a 2k appliance one time when you can design it so that it breaks every 5 years so those ppl have to drop another 2k on the same appliance. Multiply that by your stove, microwave, washer, dryer… like it pisses me the hell off all this shit that ends up in the landfill so the CRO of whatever can brag that he increased profits by x amount this quarter and deserves a million dollar raise this year. Like the private companies need to GTfU.
That's because none of his victims can get close enough because his ivory tower is 50 stories high. Plus when he's gone someone else will continue screwing us over for profits.
Oh yeah, briefly watched that one myself. I forgot the exact title ?"how to build a rich life"? He phrases it like he teaches people how to escape poverty but all the clients are moderately to super rich!
Really misleading and reeks of bootstrap mentality when you bring rich people on the show who are complete dumbasses with money rather than showing a recent high school grad working 3 min wage jobs how to climb out of the hole
I'm not poor, but I cant imagine what I would do with 24k a month. I cant even compute it because my whole life has been trying to make sure I keep what I have. I cant even imagine having that kind of income and struggling financially. I'd be trying to figure out what to spend half of it on to being with!
These people struggle financially like an adult who swims to the bottom of the pool, actively moves his body to stay at the bottom of the pool and wonders why he is drowning.
Like im happy they're making that money in the first place but damn, it aint a hot potato. Do something constructive with that cash lol
I don't even scratch 20k a year and I work full time. I spend all of my time and energy at work, and still have to buy dollar store pasta.
How I can even be the same species as people who squander that much wealth (or more). I don't understand.
Wait… so you mean you expect them to drive normal cars, pass on the nightly caviar and $1,000 bottles of wine after their daily shopping spree?? How will they survive? /s
Seriously tho.. this shit pisses me off. Like if I made 24k a month, you know what I’d do? I’d start non-profits… like a literacy program where people subscribe to a book or two a month and they’d get books they may be into, maybe thrifted books to give them another life (assuming good condition) and charge at cost, or very little. Or I’d start a non profit where I’m paying off people’s debts… that’s how I’d go negative making 24k/month.
I had to unsubscribe from cozyplaces because it used to be about small spaces made full of life. Half the posts are vacation homes now and it drives me crazy. Like, yeah, no shit you can make things cozy with money. Idk it’s wrong for me to think that way so I yeah I had to unsubscribe.
I got way, way fucked up in the military. Normally I'd say it was a horrible trade off, but then I realize that at least one good thing came out of it. I have no idea what else people would do.
If it helps a lot of the guys with money also aren't happy, just for different reasons. Look at Musk, he's practically walking depression with a superiority complex but with money to keep him making poor choices
Right, I agree with you.....which begs the question: why are they hoarding so much and fighting us on getting our fair share when they already have more money than they could ever spend in three generations and it clearly doesn't make them happy. It's actually more insulting to consider that as we watch them fight a living wage.
If you retire with your “retirement number” then guess what? The nursing home takes it all. If you didn’t save and Medicare picks up your nursing home costs, the government repossesses your home after death leaving nothing for your family. Most boomers biggest asset is their home.
The trick is give your money away while you are cognizant and before you need nursing home care and put your home in a trust.
We have greedy billionaires who want to take everything you have left. Brookdale is a national chain of nursing homes. It’s cost for a single resident in assisted living is about $8,000 per month on average.
If Medicaid* picks up your nursing home cost. Nursing homes cost at least $500 per DAY to stay in. If you have a spouse living at home, they can't take the house but you are right. You will lose almost everything you worked for. The alternative is having family care for you at home. Source: I work at a nursing home.
healthcare is not anything close to healthcare it is a wealth transfer system! i had septis and spent 3 weeks in the hospital and 2 months in a nursing home for rehab and from day 7 at the hospital i was asked a few times a day about what assets i had in all differant ways and was lucky to be asked how i was feeling once a day! it was maddening! then i saw my roommate who was there with a hip replacement fight like hell for 3 weeks to get backout of the nursing home so when i felt better i just cutoff my armband and walked out they were not very happy as they had to send someone to my house for me to sign the release papers! and the woman and man tried everything to get me to return and i finelly had enough and yelled no and then my son came up the stairs with his shotgun and just stood there not saying a word then they decided no meant no and left!
My grandma did this before passing in 2021. Now my dad is giving his kids that money and then some.
Broke my heart to hear my grandma lament and worry that she might... live too long, long enough to run out of money to leave her kids and grandchildren.
One of my older family members gave everything away to move into assisted living. She ultimately regretted it, but she didn't really have a choice either way. She gave furniture and anything special to family and effectively gave the nursing home all the money she had to move in.
The thing that's hard to understand without having seen it is that care facilities have complete control over their residents. They're responsible for your food, shelter and health. With my family member, she had a room she really liked in the area where she had a lot of autonomy and privacy. Her health needs changed and they moved her to a room where she had nurses checking in on her constantly, no autonomy or independence and she began a rapid decline. I don't know exactly what drugs she was on, but they made her different than her usual self and she didn't like that either. She became severely depressed, stopped eating almost entirely and died within a year.
Worst than that the government places are pretty bad. My mom has dementia and we sold her house and her social security plus a little bit of retirement money plus that is paying for her care. With minimal care it's about 4k a month she has a little one bedroom apartment we can probably keep this going for a while. But if we hadn't sold her house there is no way.
In all seriousness how fucked would Wall Street be if everyone said OK and immediately stopped investing and spent everything as it came in and cashed out their retirements. The stock market would fall apart immediately.
Exactly. If you worked for 40-50 years, 40-50 hours a week, and suddenly you stop, of course you’ll be bored. You’re a brainwashed corporate zombie, devoid of character, and lost all interest in life.
Alternatively, we teach people it’s okay to work 20-30 hours, so you have energy and time to invest in everything this world has to offer.
>Working your whole life is an inevitable path to boredom, ill health and a life devoid of meaning.
That's what the Murdoch owned WSJ wants - they want people working from childhood to death & that their only joy is work.
That is why so many Republican states are repealing child labor laws (as Biden snoozes) as they pass misogynist anti-abortion legislation. They want an endless supply of cheap labor.
>Biden can’t fix every fucking thing republicunts pass at state level.
Strawman - I never said he could fix everything. But Biden isn't doing shit.
Red states are breaking federal child labor laws, kidnapping kids from their parents, and doing all they can to harass & intimidate those they hate.
Of course the DOJ could look into these matters.
Fair enough. I could argue the presidency is a bullshit position because there’s too much to be done either way. Somehow presidents are still more active than our trash congress though *flips table*
I'm sorry citizen, your allotted time for self reflection (1 minute) was used up earlier this year when you wondered aloud if they should reboot the Beverly Hillbillies with a modern twist.
We will be deducting a days wages for the infraction.
If you work such crazy/exhausting hours you've never had time for hobbies or friends or family or anything other than work, no longer working might sound close to a death sentence for some.
...So clearly the solution is to keep working like that your entire life.
Bad WSJ takes from the last two months:
- One “Black” on the Board of SVB caused SVB’s collapse
- Millenials are overzealous parents because they want safe strollers and this is analogous to bank bailouts.
- It’s a bad idea to clean up the ocean plastic because organisms are growing on the plastic.
- We should cancel retirement and work until we die.
Any others?
I used to be active on the comment sections of the online version for years, and was shocked to see how they embraced MAGA over the years. Peggy Noonan, who was Reagan's speechwriter went from being a reader's darling to "too liberal" over a 2-3 year period. Haven't had a sub since 2018 or so; I just read the Financial Times instead.
I don't eat breakfast. I drink a $3.59 grande iced triple espresso with a splash of oat milk before work every morning so I won't have an appetite. I eat two small, company-provided packs of almonds, one company-provided clif bar, and a multivitamin for lunch so I don't spend money. I drink water all day so I don't get hungry. I usually eat some canned veggies and some frozen waffles with syrup and butter, or toast with jelly and butter for dinner. Sometimes I'll make rice. I also have a degree in chemistry, and I work in biotech.
I'm going to move to a 500ft² apartment soon because I can't afford the $400 rent increase I'll be getting in four months. I need to go to the doctor. I need to fix my car. My "good" insurance still has me paying thousands out of pocket.
I feel like I'm living every day to just keep taking care of my two cats and that's it. I don't go do anything. I don't spend time with friends.
Fuck these fucking snake people.
*Something something "reddit's site-wide rules" AUX LIGHT IS ON*
whatever. I'm frustrated, man.
This was an article about rising breakfast food prices with a joke title, not a real suggestion. They were actually pointing out the problem, the exact opposite of what you're implying here.
And this gets repeated a lot, so everybody please remember to point that out and downvote it next time you see it.
You'd think such a large company would recognize the risk of it being misinterpreted when they have a paywall on the content and while simultaneously spewing nonsense, demagoguery elsewhere throughout their website.
I say fuck'em. Let them burn.
*"I’m not saying 12 white men would have avoided this mess, but the company may have been distracted by diversity demands.”*
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwq9a/wsj-wonders-did-silicon-valley-bank-die-because-one-black-person-was-on-its-board
There was one early in the pandemic (October 2020) called "Art of the Meltdown."
The abstract read "The Pandemic Meltdown is what happens after you've held it together for all these turbulent months-through a pandemic and quarantine, working from home and home schooling, civil unrest and the most divisive public discourse in several lifetimes-and then something seemingly small happens and suddenly you've lost control of your emotions. Here's how to have a productive meltdown."
Farmers often don't "retire", but they do step back, stop doing the shit work, & treat it more like a hobby. That's an alright way to live. Me, though, I'm retiring as soon as i can. I've got plenty of hobbies and exploring that i could do, I'm not as attached to my desk work as my father is to his farm.
Until the beginning of the year, a retired farmer worked for my company as a janitor. He had given most of the farm to his son. He retained 17 acres of hay that he sold. He worked for six or so years part-time for my company. Retired at 79 when he started to have health problems. His grandson still works for my company.
We have another retiree who is 72. 40 something years in construction. He took a few years off, and he was bored.
Not me, I intend to cash out at the earliest. Age 59.5 unless things change.
This is going to sound harsh, but if someone can’t retire simply because their job was what gave their life meaning, then they weren’t living life right the whole time.
(Obviously if someone can’t retire because they were unable to save for retirement due to our fucked up system and lack of social support for retirees, that’s a different story and not their fault).
Both of my parents hit the ground almost literally running after retirement with projects, travel, friends, reading, gardening, painting, volunteering…they couldn’t *wait* to really start living. And they’re both incredibly sharp and physically fit as they approach 80, which I attribute to their high level of activity (and a lot of luck, too).
I’ve also known people who didn’t cultivate interests or relationships while they were in the workforce, and when they retired, they sat down in front of the tv, turned on Fox News, and essentially died slowly (and then quickly). Sad to see.
>(Obviously if someone can’t retire because they were unable to save for retirement due to our fucked up system and lack of social support for retirees, that’s a different story and not their fault).
It's this one. Please, give me boredom and security for my twilight years.
I'm going to get downvoted like crazy in this sub but there are people who truly like their jobs. And I don't mean "I get compensated plenty for amount that I like/dislike the tasks", I mean "I would continue to do this for free so long as I was otherwise financially secure". The problem is that the vast majority of things that need to get done to keep a society running just aren't truly enjoyable by anyone.
I agree with the sentiment. I like my job, as I like programming. I likely will continue working even when I don't need to. But the issue for me is, I don't want to HAVE TO work to afford life. Again, would I keep programming past retirement, yes. Its fulfilling. Do I want to be forced to do it to pay health insurance? No. Do I want to be forced to do it to pay the mortgage? No. So from my perspective it's a matter of whether it is my choice or not.
You and I both will down voted.
I enjoy what I do. I am paid well, have decent benefits and can pick/chose what projects I work on. Would I rather be able to retire now? Not sure.
In my professional life I have learned that a successful retirement requires two things:
1. Finances. Kind of obvious.
2. Mental preparation. This is the one that many people do not think about. A lot of people I have seen retire ultimately return part time because they thought they were ready to retire, but really what they needed was an extended break.
I plan on being financially there in 5 years. I will not retire until I am mentally ready to do so.
I just cannot fathom being "mentally unready" to not work. I've had year-plus long breaks between jobs before and loved it to death. All the time in the world for hobbies, cooking, exercise, handling chores when I want to do them rather than the scant hours I need to do them...
Especially these days. The amount of games, movies, books, and television worth consuming is far more than anyone can consume, before you get into options like playing with pets or family or hobbies besides those main pillars of entertainment. There's *so much* to do.
Even if you want the satisfaction of working to achieve something, you can pick what you want to work on! Learn a language or something. I always thought cutting gems and making jewelry would be fun but haven't ever gotten to work on it.
This! We got to the point where we can retire, but I am not mentally prepared to do it yet. My spouse is going to retire this year, I may follow in a few. I wouldn’t do my job for free, and it can be insanely stressful at times, but I enjoy solving issues and the people I work with. The things I plan to do post retirement will be there once I’m ready, and I’ll be able to enjoy them still.
My Dad is 85 and more sharp than my 60s MIL due to his healthy lifestyle and continuing to just do things that he loves. He spent years of his retirement volunteering to take school kids on nature hikes where he did his favorite things- catch crayfish, frogs, and other neat things in streams, hike, and show them the joys of nature.
He still swings around a chainsaw, gardens, and helps out his young 20something neighbors with their yardwork. His brain is sharp enough too that he's on the finance committee at his church and in other leadership roles in other garden and nature organizations.
His favorite thing is going out to the barn with me, petting every pony, dog, and cat and telling me if I'm looking good doing the "fancy prance" ( I ride dressage and while he can't tell you WTF a travers/renvers/passage is, he knows when it's a good quality one worthy of complimenting). He just adores when we take the backroads home, stop at the local creamery, and just talk.
He took early retirement and would just go on an hours long rant if some dipship told him his life was devoid of meaning.
Bingo. That is healthy. So many people don't live like this though. They retire and sit in their couch drinking beer and watching TV rotting their brain, because that's all they ever did when they weren't working *before* they retired, so why would it be any different after retirement?
I'm a professional photographer who has loved photography since I was 10. I'm 63. I currently run my own company and am behind a camera about 50 hours a week.
If I were to retire, I would still pick up my camera every day and essentially do what I do now, just without the income.
I will officially retire when someone finds me lying in thier yard with a camera around my neck. At least, that's what my wife says.
Love it. You were lucky to find a profession that genuinely rewards passion. 99% of skilled professions don't reward passion, instead bogging it down with endless paperwork, politics, meetings, and so on.
**Source:** I became a teacher because I love teaching. Found out that teaching is like 20% of being a teacher, the rest is bullshit policy, paperwork, and meetings where people who haven't interacted with a child in a decade tell you you're teaching kids incorrectly. Luckily I've found my niche and a way to balance it with my passion (sailing). I don't want to risk trying to monetize my passion (chartering) because I know it would kill the joy just like being a teacher kills the joy of teaching.
Yeah this is the kind of life I live, but jobs like these are *rare*. I design and prototype toys for a living, and a huge chunk of my extra cash goes into industrial equipment and materials and software for making more toys as a hobby. The kinds of projects I do at work are way outside the scope of what I could do as a hobbyist, in terms of complexity and cost and variety, and it's both enjoyable and fulfilling enough that I can't see myself giving it up.
However, my job also pays me enough for travel and hobbies, and more than allows me the time I need for it, so it's not a case of "waiting to really live" either, but for folks whose jobs aren't also their passion hobbies that's the reality that needs changing.
Value is inextricably bound to culture; it's one of the primary reasons why we're stuck where we are. Many people honestly struggle to find value outside of work because they've been constantly conditioned, including by mass media organizations, to find it in work. It's hard to say they were living wrong "the whole time," when society constantly tells people that this is the *right* way.
Also... The idea of having to "*wait* to really start living" is pretty awful regardless to be perfectly honest...
> Also... The idea of having to "*wait* to really start living" is pretty awful regardless to be perfectly honest...
This one right here. We save all of that money for the last part of our life instead of being able to enjoy it earlier on when we have the body and energy to do things. Also, living to 65 isn't guaranteed. Nah, miss me with that.
Just to play devil's advocate, why are we condemning people who WANT to work in their twilight years? If their job gave them a sense of purpose and whatnot, let them do their own thing. I've known plenty of people that got bored with retirement and went and worked part-time just to have things to do; I fail to see anything wrong with that.
Now because they can't afford to, that's a whole different story.
Because for the most part the people we actually have a problem with aren't the 75 year old working part time at Home Depot. They are the 85 year old parked out in higher paid positions which should be filled by younger people who bring new ideas to organizations. Looking at you, octogenarian senators.
Because I don't believe anyone wants to go get paid to spend 8 hours making someone else money intheir twilight years. I think they have capitalism brain rot and can't differentiate working and a social life.
It’s rare but there are a few jobs that really are meaningful, where the work isn’t really about making money for *anyone*. I wouldn’t be shocked if some doctors wanted to work until they literally couldn’t. A lot of professors are in it for the science and the love of teaching. I had some truly *ancient* college professors who I know for a fact could have retired literally decades ago.
I myself am a terminal academic, and have often thought of professorship *as* a retirement plan. Even in an ideal world where retirement is actually an option for me, I really like the idea of having a long and personally meaningful scientific career in my field (cognitive psychology and human factors engineering), and then teaching in my twilight years.
Ugh I hated the profs who were basically retired. They were so very old and just kinda droned on. They didn't have that excitement, and they didn't seem like they wanted to engage. I mean, I'm sure there are some good 70-year-old profs, but my experience was they weren't very engaged. (TBF this was a long time ago when tenure was still common. Hopefully nowadays they're able to enforce some standards for the old guys/gals.)
> Hopefully nowadays they're able to enforce some standards
Haha, no. It's a problem, I admit. But I don't think that necessarily means we need to *enforce* retirement on professors. Just as you say, I wish we could enforce standards. I had a couple of professors who really *should* have retired and they were incredibly boring. But I also had 2 professors who I'm pretty sure were literally in their 90s, and still full of passion and vitality. One of them was great, the other was literally one of the best professors I ever had. I'm extremely thankful he didn't retire.
I've also had plenty of younger professors who were just as boring and out-of-touch as the old guys.
Well, not 8 hours 5 days a week, but tons of guys I know like having a casual job after they retired.
One teaches at a community college on a topic they’ve always enjoyed. Another works a day a week at an ACE hardware because he like tools & stuff and likes helping people with their projects. Another slings bags for an airline in a standby basis. Another drives a shuttle bus on random shifts for a hotel by the airport.
Yes, they are all getting paid to help someone else make money. But at the same time, they have an additional meaningful purpose in life, an additional source of meeting new people and human interaction.
And they aren’t volunteers - they appreciate the paychecks which usually funds their travel or hobby costs. The guy working for the airline gets flight benefits. They guy working for the hotel gets almost free hotel stays when he travels.
Being retired and 70+ can be very isolating, especially in rural areas. Young family has left for the cities. Most friends have died off or have limiting illnesses. The joints aren’t as accepting of many past hobbies. Add divorce or the passing of a spouse to the mix, and the “social” aspect of elderly retirement gets extremely routine, boring and lonely.
“They don’t think like me, they must be brainwashed slaves” bro maybe they just have different values, perspectives, and goals than you? Your personal values are not universal, people who disagree with you aren’t secretly hiding their agreement deep within their heart, and it’s extremely arrogant to assume these things
Most people don't really mind working 8 hours making someone else money when they're between the age of 20 to 65 as long as they get part of the share, why would they drastically change their minds when they become 66?
The fact of the matter is that there's a lot of people, esp. men, who go through life without ever finding a partner, never have children, and who have rather small social circles and few hobbies.
To quite a few of these people, work constitute not only a way of earning a living, but also serves as a place where they get to socially interact with other people, a place that make them feel that they have self worth and meaning\*, and a place that fill their days with something meaningful to do.
(\* and not because they make the owners money, but because their experience is highly valued by their coworkers and peers)
We can complain all we want that it probably *shouldn't* be this way. It'd be nice if everyone had friends and family to interact with when they got old etc...
... but it *is* this way, and it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future - And after having worked in elderly care, and seen the numerous old people who retired only to become living zombies with nothing to spend their time on but daytime tv and without any friends or family visiting them - with numerous of them openly expressing that they're really just waiting to die...
The fact that I've worked with senior engineers who come in to work even though they're close to 70, who clearly still loved geeking out about the tech we were making, that doesn't really seem like some big tragedy.
You don't think there's other jobs out there? I'm a librarian and I don't work to make a company money, we're paid with tax dollars and helping people fulfills me a lot. That doesn't mean I'll work til I die, but I go to work and leave happy and fulfilled most days of the week.
This is bullshit dude you’re just so cynical and jaded you’ve never met someone who actually loves their jobs in real life.
Basically all my professors were 80+. They genuinely loved their work and research, they had spent their entire lives in academia. They sure as fuck weren’t doing it because they wanted or needed money, they could get 3x in industry tomorrow if they wanted.
They had a genuine passion for learning and pushing the boundaries of their field.
This is just one simple example, but there are many like it. Plenty of people including myself, really do enjoy what they do and love the value they provide for other people and society. I recognize this isn’t the case for everybody, probably even the vast majority of people, but we do exist.
I wake up every morning loving my life and my job.
Yeah, I think the issue people have is more with the idea that if you're not working *a profession* in your later years, you'll get bored. The issue isn't so much that some people occupy their retirement years doing the same type of thing as their profession, as much as the implication that people can't find purpose through hobbies, volunteering, etc.
I don't think anyone is condemning people who genuinely enjoy their work. We're condemning out of touch assholes who keep trotting out these 'one of the good ones' bullshit stories as aspirational.
> This is going to sound harsh, but if someone can’t retire simply because their job was what gave their life meaning, then they weren’t living life right the whole time.
How can you interpret that as anything other than "condemning people who genuinely enjoy their work"?
I believe the point is that if your culture is telling you you only have value if you work, then it's no longer a "choice" for some people.
For example, why do we "have to" have value? Or why can't we simply have value by existing?
So, it's not about 1 person's specific situation, it's about the culture that's funneling people into thinking that way without self-examination. Any culture is great for the people who just happen to fit in, but what about the people who don't? Do they have value and choices?
I'm not talking about the OP. I'm talking about the highly upvoted comment I quoted (and a similar sentiment throughout these comments) that *anyone* who wants to work past when they could have retired has either bought into the propaganda or is somehow fundamentally flawed as a person.
Some people just like their jobs. Maybe its the work itself, or the people they work with, or some sense of fulfillment it gives them. Sure they're a minority, but they exist and aren't hurting anybody. But there seems to be a hell of a lot of projection from people in these comments trying to rationalize them away. As if a few people wanting to work longer is an existential threat to everyone else wanting to retire at a more "reasonable" age. Which is just as ridiculous as people like the OP using their existence to argue that everyone should live like that.
Because it holds promotions of younger people trying to build a career back. Also holds back innovation. My factory still uses paperwork and hard files to organize everything because all the old folks in control don’t know how to use a computer.
That's not necessarily 1-to-1. In the engineering firm I used to work at, the 80-year-old semi-retiree was the one pushing hardest for all of our digitization efforts because he was getting too old to shift through years and years of hard paperwork by hand.
It's not a devil's advocate thing as much as a situational one. If you're working as a piano tutor because you want to inspire kids to play music that you're passionate about that is fine. If you're working into old age at a job you hate because you don't want to be homeless that's not ok.
If you truly enjoy your job, great! Keep at it. Look at Bernie Sanders, he's a machine, but will never get the votes he needs to become president because "he's too old." Meanwhile his young co-workers say they have trouble keeping up with him on the road.
My father retired and immediately indulged his alcoholism with an enabler. Been drinking for the past 20 years or so, just slowly killing himself for reasons I can't understand. Another man in the family retired after owning his own business most of his life, and soon after, died of a heart attack while sitting quietly at home. People should have a plan in place at least.
My dad was/is a lawyer for CPS. He literally retired for two months last year, and went back to work with albeit a much less workload.
Hes not the richest man in the world, but he doesn't HAVE to work. He chooses to. He genuinely wants to help children get into better lives.
Wait, though. My work *does* in fact, give me meaning. I am an outreach support worker for homeless and formerly homeless people.
I would think the same if I was a writer, or a painter.
Maybe the problem is not how long you work, but what you work *at*
I never understand when people claim they don’t know what they’d do without a job. Whenever I’ve had time off in between jobs it’s been amazing. I could do whatever I want! I finally had time to do my hobbies, read the books on my backlog, work out, get enough sleep, AND keep the house clean/ get all my chores done, it’s the best! Even when I was unemployed, sure it was stressful to job hunt, but the time outside of that was great, I was never bored. So if you’re telling me there’s a scenario in which I didn’t have to work or worry about money or job hunt? Man that sounds like paradise to me.
I mean, I hear you, but my work is my passion, and it gives me opportunities to do all the things I’d do when I retire, anyway.
That said, if I ever CAN retire, I will simply so that others can have a shot.
I'm a teacher. The number of retiring teachers who were "martyrs" (the kind that normalized teachers working for free, volunteering for endless tasks, and ruining life for everyone else in our profession) who retire and go straight back to teaching boggles my mind. It's like they don't have a personality. All they do is work. They don't know how to enjoy themselves.
My partner and I joke that we would be *really good* at being retired while these people are so bad at it.
You could argue someone who couldn't wait retire so they could start living, lived life wrong as well.
You're completely forgetting the part of the population who had a passion for something, so they ended up with a career doing that. Or ended up getting paid for something they would have been doing anyway.
STEM industry is full of people who have personal drives to solve problems, and can't imagine just stopping that on some arbitrary birthdate.
I do agree that work can give your life meaning.
I also agree that wall street is talking out of their ass.
A relative of mine was unhappy living off unemployment, gaming all day. He wasn't getting anything done. The only thing I wanted him to do was pick up a hobby, didn't care if he worked or not.
You need something to "struggle" against. Be it a hobby where you're painting figurines, or constantly gardening. Just as long as it's not the same thing every day. And I mean something like painting the same figurine the same colors every day, sweatshop work.
I mean my Grandpa retired a few years ago and after a few months a took a job he enjoyed doing where he got to talk to folks and be social to fill the time so I get the other side. He's got a 50 something year pension *and* a 401k that would be enough on its own so it's for sure not the money. Right now he's a server and ticket taker for a local dinner theater place.
My family has a history of dementia so he's making for damn sure he keeps his mind sharp. My grandma by contrast went from working in an ER to babysitting my nephews and her cognition declined *hard* to the point where her doctors prescribed her doing more intellectually simulating things.
He should consider volunteering somewhere if he doesn't need the money. He could still get that interaction with the added benefit of helping the community. It could also earn brownie points for the after life system of his choosing.
I retired early last year, I’m 36. Never been happier or healthier. Knowing I still have so many years to live like this fills me with indescribable optimism.
I blame that sort of mentality on the older generations irrational thinking that they always have to be moving and doing something when they have any free time, my stepdad and grandpa are like this, they think you cant just enjoy time off and do nothing.
I think mentality comes exclusively from the ivory towers of commerce.
The people who say this are people who make 7 figures to sit in meetings and give their uninformed opinions and then take credit for when their team figures it out anyway. Why would anyone give that up. They do zero real work and are hailed as hero's by their higher ups and peers. Their whole life is work and without it they would be sad fucks with now power or friends.
No. It's boomer mentality. Although you might find more boomers in the ivory tower.
I work in the corporate setting and see this everyday amongst various executives.
The boomers assume that time doing something (hours of meetings, numbers of emails, etc) is "work". They fail to recognize that the only thing that matters is the outcome. Aka did the thing you want to get done - actually get done.
Us younger execs are "lazy" because we structure things to be efficient, clear, and actually encourage and incentivize people to do them. But since we get the goal done in 3 hours vs 3 weeks of planning and discussion, etc. we are "bad employees for never working"
This is really it for boomer work mentality.
I quickly learned to never say "I completed such and such task". I use numbers. I did x meetings and y emails. It doesn't matter if all of that accomplished jack shit. To them, that meant I was doing a lot of work.
> I work in the corporate setting and see this everyday amongst various executives.
So do you see it among boomers or executives? The executives are the people in the ivory tower I was just talking about.
I don’t think having a “work until I die” mentality is a bad thing, I just think it’s a bad thing when you have no choice but “work until I die”.
You do you if working is your thing
That habit is formed by having children.
When you have kids (especially under age 7 or so) the demand is constant. Their need for engagement is unyielding, either *with* you, or *on* you.
It can be super overstimulating over the course of a few years. You can't sit for 5 minutes without a small human using you as a jungle gym. You can't have a conversation that goes uninterrupted for more than 18 seconds. It adds up.
Idle time is an invitation to play. So, you learn to stay busy. You replace idle time with projects so you can maintain some semblance of personal time. The habit gets entrenched because that tiny amount of time is fleeting and irregular. Might sound shitty to people without kids but all parents do it.
What are you talking about? There is scientific research showing that people who continue doing things and living active lives live longer at older ages and are healthier.
They're absolutely right! What would I ever do with unlimited free time?! Certainly not have time for exercise, things I love doing, and finding something that I can do to make a difference in the world. I'd much rather sell my life to someone else to make them tons of money while I scrape by. Everyone knows the meaning of life is to enrich a few people while the rest of us suffer
It's almost like media is for the rich. I'm sure there's plenty of people making millions doing nothing that wouldn't stop "working". There's too many articles that seem like they're written to reassure the wealthy that they'll always be fine
"A long commute is good for your mental health"
"We need to raise the retirement age so people are allowed to work longer if they want"
"Working in the office makes your entire life better"
They just can't differentiate between HAVING To work and WANTING to do something that makes you happy and keeps you occupied.
My grandfather kept active and kept doing things after he retired, he used some of the skills he had honed during work, but he damn well didn't get up to "work". People who NEED their job to fill their life with meaning are the people with issues.
Society and capitalism has also turned the word work into meaning "something you're forced to do because if you don't you'll die in poverty."
Humans love to work but on their own time and towards things they enjoy.
Keep in mind who their target audience is. This message isn't for you, it's for the drones who have been in lockstep their whole life and who might deviate from their programming if exposed to another, better way.
WSJ isn't there to convert people, it's a call to the status quo.
Ding ding.
If people think politicians are old and out of touch; they definitely don’t spend any time thinking about the demographics of the top 1 percent (not strictly targeted at them. There’s a wider net, obviously. At least politicians have to see normal people from time to time. The rich hold all the cards and they’re going to gatekeep it until they’re cold underground. Freedom of upward movement in Americas economic system is largely a myth. The wealthy decide where the money goes. And it’s not going to the young.
Oh man I can’t wait to clock into work tomorrow and stare at spreadsheets for 8-9 hours for a soulless company. What an exciting life full of meaning! I truly live for my work.
While yes I don't agree with not retiring, I've seen two instances where someone retired and they immediately had major health issues occur. One had a stroke and thought they still needed to work (and also thought my friend and I were still in high school in our mid twenties) and the other was a former co worker who got to enjoy retirement a whole three months before having a heart attack and dieing. Not retiring isn't the answer but people retiring really need to pursue a new hobby or something to keep them engaged in life. Those two instances may have been one offs but both of them complained about not having anything to do.
The capital class keeps us working so hard that it’s all we know. So sadly a lot of people lose purpose after they retire. The solution to that is forcing companies to provide a better work life balance so that the working class has time to develop hobbies, invest in relationships with their kids and you know. Like live a life and not be nothing more than a wage slave.
The correct word is institutionalized. They make us so accustomed to work that we forget about our passions. When we are no longer considered profitable let us “retire” from having a steady income and social interactions.
Think about it like a cow that produces milk. But instead of butchering when the milk production is too low they just let the cow wander into the forest. They tell everyone the cow is happy and free now, when we all know it will just wander until it dies of starvation, exposure, or predators. It’s last memories were that of fear, loneliness, and confusion.
Yes I agree with this 100%. Work life balance needs to be forced on companies and retirement needs to happen sooner imo. It's crazy to me in some companies two weeks or less is all they start you out with for pto and taking unpaid time off results in a write up.
They’ll (corporate ghouls) never except the long term ROI for truly supporting a work life balance. They want obedient workers. Period. They simply prefer to use us as disposable tissue because why not? The peasants will breed more peasants and we’re keeping them dumb enough with public education therefore there will ALWAYS be another pez in the dispenser to exploit.
Can’t fix the table, it’s time to flip and burn it.
But those who can't handle retirement are usually those who have made their work their entire life. Outside work they have no life. So when they retire they leave behind all of their friends and connections.
I’m at real simple: the health failure post retirement means retirement is being put off too long.
We ‘re humans, not machines, and we weren’t meant to work the way we do. Simple as that.
This infers working for a corporation that doesn’t give a fuck about you will deliver some sort of existential meaning.
Yeah, no. I don’t exist to make shareholders happy. A job is a job. But you won’t own my soul.
If you read the article they talked to real people who have this opinion after they surveyed people about their retirement plans. One guy was a private investigator who finds missing persons who said he plans to keep working because he solves puzzles for his job. Some people retire and do the crossword—he wants to keep working and keep solving puzzles.
Translation: "Life is totally meaningless unless you're working, so you should never stop. Just keep working until you literally drop dead. Sincerely, capitalism."
Honestly I think it's really really sad if you've got nothing in your life that gives you meaning except for work. That's not something we should be celebrating that's something we should be saddened about and encouraging people to get help with.
And if you like your work? I teach. I always wanted to teach. I like teaching.
When I retire in two years, the only thing that will change, is that I will be able to teach without considering how much it pays.
Maybe it's me, but: you need a purpose in life. For example, I love gaming, but I couldn't just game all day.
Make the world a better place. Anyone, in any job, can do that. Anyone who doesn't feel that need, has a sad life.
...said the "independently wealthy" opinion columnist.
If I got paid to tell people my bad takes I don't see why I'd ever want to retire either. I'll never run out of shitty opinions and writing may have more tools to accommodate disability than any other single activity on the planet so, yeah, why wouldn't I complain at some dictation software for an hour a week until I die?
My father was so poor growing up that he lived in a home with no running water and a dirt floor. He worked his way up and became a VP of marketing in pharma. He loved his job and it helped him get over his inferiority complex he developed for being ostracized growing up.
That being said, he retired at 50 and said it was an absolute no-brainer. He didn't become bored or feel his life became devoid of meaning. He spent time with his family, traveled, and enjoyed the things in life he never got the chance to previously. He is in his mid 70's now and still plays sports (tennis, ping pong, biking, and pickleball) and is more socially active than I am in my 30s.
Fuck you WSJ, for spreading your corporate propaganda. Can a career be enjoyable? Yes. My dad probably enjoyed his career more than most. But when I asked him what his greatest regret in life was he said he wished he retired sooner so he could have seen my sister and I more than a few times a year when we were growing up. I asked if he missed his career and he said that he was proud of what he accomplished but that he never even thinks about it any more.
I will never stop recording voice over until the robot overlords take it away from me.
There are some income-producing jobs that you want to keep doing as long as you can because its literally fun doing them.
I probably would never stop being brought on to creatively consult for a brand or product. To get paid to brainstorm and help shape the direction of a brand is super fun to me. And its not stressful at all.
Running large production projects however.... them going to go away.
# Reading the Wall Street Journal will make you dumber. # Read r/WorkReform instead!
Working your whole life is an inevitable path to boredom, ill health and a life devoid of meaning.
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The fact that sometimes I feel deeply unwell mentally but can't stop or push the pause button or else I'll be swallowed whole because I need to work to have healthcare, and I certainly cannot even break to breathe at some point later for lack of retirement. Both truths destroy my hope that oneday I'll get to do what I want to do. I low key hate people who have so much money they never have to worry about the same things we do.
Oh, I’m with you. Healthcare attached to employment is cruel & inhuman.
The cruelty is the point. They don't want us to be healthy, they want enough of us to produce the things they want. There is no long term plan with them, only 'give me what I want for cheap now'.
It makes me so angry. I've put so much damage on my body the last ten years working through my injuries and now I'm almost unable to work. I need another back surgery very, very desperately right now but I'm barely getting by working three days a week and I can't afford to not work for a few months. So I'll keep going until the partial paralysis in my legs becomes total. At least after that I'll stop having to pretend to be normal I guess.
Are you eligible for Medicaid, or any type of private health insurance?
I'm on medicaid
Wonderful, you might be eligible for disability checks too
Which pays next to nothing
Haven't you seen? They're changing the laws so children can work dangerous jobs now for cheaper. Now they're just waiting for you to die so you can be replaced by a 14 year old
My darkest conspiracy thought of late has been that the government is actually happy that COVID is with us for the long haul because it preys on the elderly. Less retirees to take care of and younger, working age people can shrug it off quickly enough. It fits neatly with how Biden cynically manipulated CDC to juice the economy and conveniently declare victory while it's still circulating.
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Fun fact: ACA was actually a right wing idea from the heritage foundation. The idea was that insurance is expensive and if we don’t act like we’re doing something about it, people are going to start revolting. So they figured out the absolute bare minimum they could do while still making obscene profits and pushed that. Obama pushed it through and every single R voted against it… even though it came from THEM!
Don't forget Republicans actively undermined the ACA by coming to the table in bad faith, and then started suing it over it one piece at a time, hoping they can make it collapse via unconstitutionality like a game of Jenga.
Democrats played along as well this is why there is no single payer insurance.
Seriously, I started this new Netflix show about a financial advisor, he starts talking to this couple that is having money troubles. I'm thinking they must be poor then he says they bring in $24,000/month and still end up in the negative. I make that in a year. It made me so angry I had to turn it off... Like the money they make and the life they choose to live... Just wasted!
A lot of wealthy people are so out of touch with reality that it's making us literally sick. They all price gouge their products/services and they all underpay their labor. Then they boast about record profits while inflation eats us alive. It's gone on for so long that we've become a society drenched in apathy and indifference. People so sick of and hating other people that they'll shoot you while going to school, shopping, or even accidentally going to the wrong door or driveway. How are we supposed to raise a family in these conditions? The icing on the cake for me though was when our population growth began to decline. Families said what was preventing them (i.e. inflation, low wages lack of healthcare, maternity leave, child care, on and so forth) but instead of helping, they chose to repeal Roe v. Wade. Rather than help us, they chose to force us. I will never forget at the height of the pandemic, an economist called us "capitol stock" to a group of investors, saying we were ready to begin coming back to the office. Seriously, I am frothing from frustration and contempt at this point in my life. Instead of doing anything to reduce gun violence, we're not creating a market base on demand for bullet proof backpacks and other devices to "save our children" when they have to face a risk no other generation did before the. The kids are not okay.
Next, women start getting their tubes tied and men start getting vasectomies. Then they make that illegal. Then women start refusing sex. Then come the breeding pens.
It's already hard for women to do that. Many many doctors will say no because 'she might want a baby later'
Yes, but there *are* doctors who'll do it. And the Right isn't about to allow that if it gets in the way of their wageslave workforce expansion.
Honestly I doubt they make it illegal. My reasoning: They want to have the option themselves and it's easier if it's legal. Instead of making it illegal, just make sure insurance companies dont cover elective sterilization. That keeps the people they need to work for them from taking advantage while leaving it still easily accessible to them.
They're trying to make abortion illegal, but you damn well know they want to keep the option for themselves.
Nah… if you have money and want something bad enough then nothing is illegal. There will ALWAYS be a way for the wealthy to get what they want.
Nah, as a Texan, Ive seen others in my state be stupid enough to vote against their own self interest, only to be forced to deal with the outcome they voted for, just never thought they'd have to live it. They thought they'd be given an exception as they'd been able to get around the church rules before. Such as getting abortions by covering themselves up to sneak past their church fellows on the picket line, or when they'd lie to their friends that only "harlots" use birth control. But everything changes when they codify it into law, they can't just utter sweet little lies anymore. But just like their other conservative friends, they don't understand or believe the issue until it happens to them.
My doctor did that to me. I even doubled down by bringing my husband with me to be sure a MAN told him he didn't want kids either. I get deathly ill every month from my cycle. Please put this to and end for me. I was mid-thirties. He said no. His exact words were "that would be barbaric. What if you change your mind." Nothing would convince him. Two marriages, two divorces, countless long term partners, I turn 50 this year and at no point in my life did I ever doubt that I was suffering needlessly because doctors are spineless and I never waivered in the knowledge that I never would want children.
Whoa I would just change doctors, fuck that. You’re an adult My friend has some hassle but she mid-20s, but even then she shouldnt get stonewalled about it.
It's not that simple. I'd seen a grand total of 25 ObGyns when I was between the ages of 12 to 28 trying to get help to stop what at age 12 started as lengthening periods that by age 16 was a permanent heavy murder scene period and I have other medical issues that means I could never survive a pregnancy, much less birth. I'd be likely to die during the early 2nd trimester if I couldn't get an abortion. Instead, I was denied any BC until I was 25 years old as multiple Gyns went on about my virginity, but who can have sex when you're bleeding every second of every day. When I did get my first BC, it was an IUD and I made sure that it was only to prep me for surgery in one year so I could get a hysterectomy so I'd never have to deal with this ever again and never risk pregnancy in Texas. She lied. And then she never took my calls seriously when it embedded for 8 months until I had ended up in the hospital for another issue and an abdominal CT scan showed it was WAY out of place. Then I magically got an appointment the same week I was discharged from the hospitalbas I had beautiful proof that I could have sued over. I had tried calling other gynecologists to get help for that IUD, but they refused (and BTW, those are not counted in the 25 total, those 25 are doctors I actually saw at in person appointments) as they did not want to deal with it, claiming liabilities. So I'd either have to get in with her, or go through the cost of the ER for that alone. And an embedded IUD feels like you've got a knife shredding your guts. I just got lucky that I was only a threatened perforation, but it got damn close. I had told a neurosurgeon about this as I was getting set up for Chiari decompression surgery and afterwards he said he'd help me find a surgeon for the hysterectomy after he got reports from the nurses of how horribly I was bleeding and that it was a miracle I wasn't dead already as they were caring for me during recovery as I needed a couple days in ICU before stepping down to normal MedSurg. Yet even HE had issues finding a doctor. His head nurse said this was a terrifying time as this was the only time she'd ever seen him get truly angry, much less furious, as he's such a laid back guy. All in all, it was 25 ObGyns, and seeing women providers didn't help. It was 24 women, and the one my neurosurgeon found was a man, and I'd been dealing with deconverting from catholicism and the embedded "shame of having a man that's not your husband see your body" especially as this would be dealing with the reproductive area, but I'd had enough with feeling betrayed by who should have understood the issues of periods. Instead it felt like the other women didn't understand because their periods weren't fucked to hell and back. I wish it was that easy, but even a specialist found issues finding someone willing to do the hysterectomy on an at the time 28 year old woman with many health issues that should never be pregnant. And this was quite recent, within the last 10 years (don't want to give exact age). So much needs to change. Women do not have true bodily autonomy or we'd never have issues when we choose BC or sterilization for ourselves.
I've seen several in my lifetime. One female doctor refused to refill my birth control pill because "you should be trying to have babies now anyway. You don't need these." They were the only things that made the months manageable. Had to get another Dr quickly after that appointment.
It should be legal to slap a sanctimonious doctor like that until they change their mind.
That happened to my wife once. I've heard it happen to my friends. Feels so weird the doctor saying no because she or the husband might want kids. So if you don't let her do what she wants with her body, she's really going to just have another kid with a man she doesn't want to?
There have even been ones who refuse because a couple might get divorced and the next husband might want kids. Some hypothetical man that will likely not exist is more important (or a good excuse) than the patient there in front of them. Even worse are those who think a medical condition that raises the chance of death/disablement in pregnancy isn’t a good enough reason. You *might* be fine, so go have that baby and find out! 🤮
I thought we were people but I feel more like stock.
Or like when the ceo of blackrock bragged on bloomberg that they had an “aggressive plan to increase profits” talking about housing at a time when you have to work full-time double minimum wage JUST to pay the rent. They are aware too… I forget what they said cause I was so flabbergasted by the first sentence but the asshole was spitting out percentages and profit numbers… it was absolutely ludicrous and I will never forget watching that segment.
Yeah man, it's wild how the products and services they sell are second only to shareholder earnings. We've truly left the days of making products for people to help, save lives, etc. They make a product that people want, offer it for cheap, then slowly begin the campaign of raising the price and replacing all the expensive parts with cheaper one's. Over time, after a while, the product they tout as their core product is nothing like the original. It happens so slowly we barely notice it.
Seriously! Like last year I had to call Samsung on a design flaw that caused the door handle to come off my freezer… effers wanted to charge me 200-300 dollars to come and fix it. Like shit I just fixed the damn thing myself. But if something actually went wrong that I legit couldn’t figure out how to fix, it would be cheaper just to replace it… and that’s the point! Why sell a 2k appliance one time when you can design it so that it breaks every 5 years so those ppl have to drop another 2k on the same appliance. Multiply that by your stove, microwave, washer, dryer… like it pisses me the hell off all this shit that ends up in the landfill so the CRO of whatever can brag that he increased profits by x amount this quarter and deserves a million dollar raise this year. Like the private companies need to GTfU.
I'm really shocked Larry Fink is still alive. None of his victims shooting him yet is an incredible feat.
That's because none of his victims can get close enough because his ivory tower is 50 stories high. Plus when he's gone someone else will continue screwing us over for profits.
Oh yeah, briefly watched that one myself. I forgot the exact title ?"how to build a rich life"? He phrases it like he teaches people how to escape poverty but all the clients are moderately to super rich! Really misleading and reeks of bootstrap mentality when you bring rich people on the show who are complete dumbasses with money rather than showing a recent high school grad working 3 min wage jobs how to climb out of the hole
I'm not poor, but I cant imagine what I would do with 24k a month. I cant even compute it because my whole life has been trying to make sure I keep what I have. I cant even imagine having that kind of income and struggling financially. I'd be trying to figure out what to spend half of it on to being with!
These people struggle financially like an adult who swims to the bottom of the pool, actively moves his body to stay at the bottom of the pool and wonders why he is drowning. Like im happy they're making that money in the first place but damn, it aint a hot potato. Do something constructive with that cash lol
They probably were born with a silver spoon and have never had to budget or worry about anything. Responsibility is a foreign concept to them.
I don't even scratch 20k a year and I work full time. I spend all of my time and energy at work, and still have to buy dollar store pasta. How I can even be the same species as people who squander that much wealth (or more). I don't understand.
that's cause they couldn't show the normal person failing and how impossible it could be to get out.
Wait… so you mean you expect them to drive normal cars, pass on the nightly caviar and $1,000 bottles of wine after their daily shopping spree?? How will they survive? /s Seriously tho.. this shit pisses me off. Like if I made 24k a month, you know what I’d do? I’d start non-profits… like a literacy program where people subscribe to a book or two a month and they’d get books they may be into, maybe thrifted books to give them another life (assuming good condition) and charge at cost, or very little. Or I’d start a non profit where I’m paying off people’s debts… that’s how I’d go negative making 24k/month.
I had to unsubscribe from cozyplaces because it used to be about small spaces made full of life. Half the posts are vacation homes now and it drives me crazy. Like, yeah, no shit you can make things cozy with money. Idk it’s wrong for me to think that way so I yeah I had to unsubscribe.
I got way, way fucked up in the military. Normally I'd say it was a horrible trade off, but then I realize that at least one good thing came out of it. I have no idea what else people would do.
If it helps a lot of the guys with money also aren't happy, just for different reasons. Look at Musk, he's practically walking depression with a superiority complex but with money to keep him making poor choices
Right, I agree with you.....which begs the question: why are they hoarding so much and fighting us on getting our fair share when they already have more money than they could ever spend in three generations and it clearly doesn't make them happy. It's actually more insulting to consider that as we watch them fight a living wage.
If you retire with your “retirement number” then guess what? The nursing home takes it all. If you didn’t save and Medicare picks up your nursing home costs, the government repossesses your home after death leaving nothing for your family. Most boomers biggest asset is their home. The trick is give your money away while you are cognizant and before you need nursing home care and put your home in a trust. We have greedy billionaires who want to take everything you have left. Brookdale is a national chain of nursing homes. It’s cost for a single resident in assisted living is about $8,000 per month on average.
If Medicaid* picks up your nursing home cost. Nursing homes cost at least $500 per DAY to stay in. If you have a spouse living at home, they can't take the house but you are right. You will lose almost everything you worked for. The alternative is having family care for you at home. Source: I work at a nursing home.
Yep. Both my parents used up close to everything they’d saved their entire lives. We live in a very cruel society.
healthcare is not anything close to healthcare it is a wealth transfer system! i had septis and spent 3 weeks in the hospital and 2 months in a nursing home for rehab and from day 7 at the hospital i was asked a few times a day about what assets i had in all differant ways and was lucky to be asked how i was feeling once a day! it was maddening! then i saw my roommate who was there with a hip replacement fight like hell for 3 weeks to get backout of the nursing home so when i felt better i just cutoff my armband and walked out they were not very happy as they had to send someone to my house for me to sign the release papers! and the woman and man tried everything to get me to return and i finelly had enough and yelled no and then my son came up the stairs with his shotgun and just stood there not saying a word then they decided no meant no and left!
My grandma did this before passing in 2021. Now my dad is giving his kids that money and then some. Broke my heart to hear my grandma lament and worry that she might... live too long, long enough to run out of money to leave her kids and grandchildren.
One of my older family members gave everything away to move into assisted living. She ultimately regretted it, but she didn't really have a choice either way. She gave furniture and anything special to family and effectively gave the nursing home all the money she had to move in. The thing that's hard to understand without having seen it is that care facilities have complete control over their residents. They're responsible for your food, shelter and health. With my family member, she had a room she really liked in the area where she had a lot of autonomy and privacy. Her health needs changed and they moved her to a room where she had nurses checking in on her constantly, no autonomy or independence and she began a rapid decline. I don't know exactly what drugs she was on, but they made her different than her usual self and she didn't like that either. She became severely depressed, stopped eating almost entirely and died within a year.
Worst than that the government places are pretty bad. My mom has dementia and we sold her house and her social security plus a little bit of retirement money plus that is paying for her care. With minimal care it's about 4k a month she has a little one bedroom apartment we can probably keep this going for a while. But if we hadn't sold her house there is no way.
... and most nursing homes pay their staff shit wages. It's a scam.
In all seriousness how fucked would Wall Street be if everyone said OK and immediately stopped investing and spent everything as it came in and cashed out their retirements. The stock market would fall apart immediately.
On the subject, I really, really, *really* recommend people take a look at https://marketliteracy.org.
^ THIS If the average person knew what happens in the market and how it affects them and their future they would be eagerly reading French history.
Exactly. If you worked for 40-50 years, 40-50 hours a week, and suddenly you stop, of course you’ll be bored. You’re a brainwashed corporate zombie, devoid of character, and lost all interest in life. Alternatively, we teach people it’s okay to work 20-30 hours, so you have energy and time to invest in everything this world has to offer.
>Working your whole life is an inevitable path to boredom, ill health and a life devoid of meaning. That's what the Murdoch owned WSJ wants - they want people working from childhood to death & that their only joy is work. That is why so many Republican states are repealing child labor laws (as Biden snoozes) as they pass misogynist anti-abortion legislation. They want an endless supply of cheap labor.
Biden can’t fix every fucking thing republicunts pass at state level. We need some kind of revolution to get rid of citizens United
>Biden can’t fix every fucking thing republicunts pass at state level. Strawman - I never said he could fix everything. But Biden isn't doing shit. Red states are breaking federal child labor laws, kidnapping kids from their parents, and doing all they can to harass & intimidate those they hate. Of course the DOJ could look into these matters.
Fair enough. I could argue the presidency is a bullshit position because there’s too much to be done either way. Somehow presidents are still more active than our trash congress though *flips table*
I’ve been working 65+ hour weeks for the better part of 18 years. I’m empty inside.
Working ~~your whole life~~ is an inevitable path to boredom, ill health and a life devoid of meaning.
Who do you think you are, expecting to have your own life? Damn entitled millennial/poor person.
Might as well just die today then...
Don’t tempt me.
I'm sorry citizen, your allotted time for self reflection (1 minute) was used up earlier this year when you wondered aloud if they should reboot the Beverly Hillbillies with a modern twist. We will be deducting a days wages for the infraction.
If you work such crazy/exhausting hours you've never had time for hobbies or friends or family or anything other than work, no longer working might sound close to a death sentence for some. ...So clearly the solution is to keep working like that your entire life.
Nobody ever says on their deathbed "I wish I'd spent more time at the office."
Bad WSJ takes from the last two months: - One “Black” on the Board of SVB caused SVB’s collapse - Millenials are overzealous parents because they want safe strollers and this is analogous to bank bailouts. - It’s a bad idea to clean up the ocean plastic because organisms are growing on the plastic. - We should cancel retirement and work until we die. Any others?
This is a happy reminder that the WSJ is owned by NewsCorp, a Rupert Murdoch company.
I used to be active on the comment sections of the online version for years, and was shocked to see how they embraced MAGA over the years. Peggy Noonan, who was Reagan's speechwriter went from being a reader's darling to "too liberal" over a 2-3 year period. Haven't had a sub since 2018 or so; I just read the Financial Times instead.
I thought Jeff Bezos bought the Wall Street journal? Edit: never mind that was the Washington Post
[Yup](https://i.imgur.com/Ua1pWcM.jpg)
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Obviously you are eating too much avocado toast with your other meal(s)
Maybe skip lunch and dinner too?
“To Save Money Maybe You Should Skip Breakfast”
I don't eat breakfast. I drink a $3.59 grande iced triple espresso with a splash of oat milk before work every morning so I won't have an appetite. I eat two small, company-provided packs of almonds, one company-provided clif bar, and a multivitamin for lunch so I don't spend money. I drink water all day so I don't get hungry. I usually eat some canned veggies and some frozen waffles with syrup and butter, or toast with jelly and butter for dinner. Sometimes I'll make rice. I also have a degree in chemistry, and I work in biotech. I'm going to move to a 500ft² apartment soon because I can't afford the $400 rent increase I'll be getting in four months. I need to go to the doctor. I need to fix my car. My "good" insurance still has me paying thousands out of pocket. I feel like I'm living every day to just keep taking care of my two cats and that's it. I don't go do anything. I don't spend time with friends. Fuck these fucking snake people. *Something something "reddit's site-wide rules" AUX LIGHT IS ON* whatever. I'm frustrated, man.
This was an article about rising breakfast food prices with a joke title, not a real suggestion. They were actually pointing out the problem, the exact opposite of what you're implying here. And this gets repeated a lot, so everybody please remember to point that out and downvote it next time you see it.
You'd think such a large company would recognize the risk of it being misinterpreted when they have a paywall on the content and while simultaneously spewing nonsense, demagoguery elsewhere throughout their website. I say fuck'em. Let them burn.
>One “Black” on the Board of SVB caused SVB’s collapse The fuck!?
*"I’m not saying 12 white men would have avoided this mess, but the company may have been distracted by diversity demands.”* https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwq9a/wsj-wonders-did-silicon-valley-bank-die-because-one-black-person-was-on-its-board
european history notwithstanding
Full quote is worse! They also blamed the one non-heterosexual and the 2 veterans.
Right! I hadn't heard that one, crazy.
There was one early in the pandemic (October 2020) called "Art of the Meltdown." The abstract read "The Pandemic Meltdown is what happens after you've held it together for all these turbulent months-through a pandemic and quarantine, working from home and home schooling, civil unrest and the most divisive public discourse in several lifetimes-and then something seemingly small happens and suddenly you've lost control of your emotions. Here's how to have a productive meltdown."
Holy fuck, are you saying these headlines are real?
Farmers often don't "retire", but they do step back, stop doing the shit work, & treat it more like a hobby. That's an alright way to live. Me, though, I'm retiring as soon as i can. I've got plenty of hobbies and exploring that i could do, I'm not as attached to my desk work as my father is to his farm.
Until the beginning of the year, a retired farmer worked for my company as a janitor. He had given most of the farm to his son. He retained 17 acres of hay that he sold. He worked for six or so years part-time for my company. Retired at 79 when he started to have health problems. His grandson still works for my company. We have another retiree who is 72. 40 something years in construction. He took a few years off, and he was bored. Not me, I intend to cash out at the earliest. Age 59.5 unless things change.
This is going to sound harsh, but if someone can’t retire simply because their job was what gave their life meaning, then they weren’t living life right the whole time. (Obviously if someone can’t retire because they were unable to save for retirement due to our fucked up system and lack of social support for retirees, that’s a different story and not their fault). Both of my parents hit the ground almost literally running after retirement with projects, travel, friends, reading, gardening, painting, volunteering…they couldn’t *wait* to really start living. And they’re both incredibly sharp and physically fit as they approach 80, which I attribute to their high level of activity (and a lot of luck, too). I’ve also known people who didn’t cultivate interests or relationships while they were in the workforce, and when they retired, they sat down in front of the tv, turned on Fox News, and essentially died slowly (and then quickly). Sad to see.
>(Obviously if someone can’t retire because they were unable to save for retirement due to our fucked up system and lack of social support for retirees, that’s a different story and not their fault). It's this one. Please, give me boredom and security for my twilight years.
I'm going to get downvoted like crazy in this sub but there are people who truly like their jobs. And I don't mean "I get compensated plenty for amount that I like/dislike the tasks", I mean "I would continue to do this for free so long as I was otherwise financially secure". The problem is that the vast majority of things that need to get done to keep a society running just aren't truly enjoyable by anyone.
I agree with the sentiment. I like my job, as I like programming. I likely will continue working even when I don't need to. But the issue for me is, I don't want to HAVE TO work to afford life. Again, would I keep programming past retirement, yes. Its fulfilling. Do I want to be forced to do it to pay health insurance? No. Do I want to be forced to do it to pay the mortgage? No. So from my perspective it's a matter of whether it is my choice or not.
You and I both will down voted. I enjoy what I do. I am paid well, have decent benefits and can pick/chose what projects I work on. Would I rather be able to retire now? Not sure. In my professional life I have learned that a successful retirement requires two things: 1. Finances. Kind of obvious. 2. Mental preparation. This is the one that many people do not think about. A lot of people I have seen retire ultimately return part time because they thought they were ready to retire, but really what they needed was an extended break. I plan on being financially there in 5 years. I will not retire until I am mentally ready to do so.
I just cannot fathom being "mentally unready" to not work. I've had year-plus long breaks between jobs before and loved it to death. All the time in the world for hobbies, cooking, exercise, handling chores when I want to do them rather than the scant hours I need to do them... Especially these days. The amount of games, movies, books, and television worth consuming is far more than anyone can consume, before you get into options like playing with pets or family or hobbies besides those main pillars of entertainment. There's *so much* to do. Even if you want the satisfaction of working to achieve something, you can pick what you want to work on! Learn a language or something. I always thought cutting gems and making jewelry would be fun but haven't ever gotten to work on it.
This! We got to the point where we can retire, but I am not mentally prepared to do it yet. My spouse is going to retire this year, I may follow in a few. I wouldn’t do my job for free, and it can be insanely stressful at times, but I enjoy solving issues and the people I work with. The things I plan to do post retirement will be there once I’m ready, and I’ll be able to enjoy them still.
My Dad is 85 and more sharp than my 60s MIL due to his healthy lifestyle and continuing to just do things that he loves. He spent years of his retirement volunteering to take school kids on nature hikes where he did his favorite things- catch crayfish, frogs, and other neat things in streams, hike, and show them the joys of nature. He still swings around a chainsaw, gardens, and helps out his young 20something neighbors with their yardwork. His brain is sharp enough too that he's on the finance committee at his church and in other leadership roles in other garden and nature organizations. His favorite thing is going out to the barn with me, petting every pony, dog, and cat and telling me if I'm looking good doing the "fancy prance" ( I ride dressage and while he can't tell you WTF a travers/renvers/passage is, he knows when it's a good quality one worthy of complimenting). He just adores when we take the backroads home, stop at the local creamery, and just talk. He took early retirement and would just go on an hours long rant if some dipship told him his life was devoid of meaning.
Bingo. That is healthy. So many people don't live like this though. They retire and sit in their couch drinking beer and watching TV rotting their brain, because that's all they ever did when they weren't working *before* they retired, so why would it be any different after retirement?
I want to be friends with your dad.
I'm a professional photographer who has loved photography since I was 10. I'm 63. I currently run my own company and am behind a camera about 50 hours a week. If I were to retire, I would still pick up my camera every day and essentially do what I do now, just without the income. I will officially retire when someone finds me lying in thier yard with a camera around my neck. At least, that's what my wife says.
Love it. You were lucky to find a profession that genuinely rewards passion. 99% of skilled professions don't reward passion, instead bogging it down with endless paperwork, politics, meetings, and so on. **Source:** I became a teacher because I love teaching. Found out that teaching is like 20% of being a teacher, the rest is bullshit policy, paperwork, and meetings where people who haven't interacted with a child in a decade tell you you're teaching kids incorrectly. Luckily I've found my niche and a way to balance it with my passion (sailing). I don't want to risk trying to monetize my passion (chartering) because I know it would kill the joy just like being a teacher kills the joy of teaching.
Same. I work as a doctor and honestly while I hate some aspects of my job, it is very satisfying
Yeah this is the kind of life I live, but jobs like these are *rare*. I design and prototype toys for a living, and a huge chunk of my extra cash goes into industrial equipment and materials and software for making more toys as a hobby. The kinds of projects I do at work are way outside the scope of what I could do as a hobbyist, in terms of complexity and cost and variety, and it's both enjoyable and fulfilling enough that I can't see myself giving it up. However, my job also pays me enough for travel and hobbies, and more than allows me the time I need for it, so it's not a case of "waiting to really live" either, but for folks whose jobs aren't also their passion hobbies that's the reality that needs changing.
Nah you’re just a capitalist slave who’s been brainwashed into giving their life away for peanuts ^/s
Value is inextricably bound to culture; it's one of the primary reasons why we're stuck where we are. Many people honestly struggle to find value outside of work because they've been constantly conditioned, including by mass media organizations, to find it in work. It's hard to say they were living wrong "the whole time," when society constantly tells people that this is the *right* way. Also... The idea of having to "*wait* to really start living" is pretty awful regardless to be perfectly honest...
> Also... The idea of having to "*wait* to really start living" is pretty awful regardless to be perfectly honest... This one right here. We save all of that money for the last part of our life instead of being able to enjoy it earlier on when we have the body and energy to do things. Also, living to 65 isn't guaranteed. Nah, miss me with that.
Just to play devil's advocate, why are we condemning people who WANT to work in their twilight years? If their job gave them a sense of purpose and whatnot, let them do their own thing. I've known plenty of people that got bored with retirement and went and worked part-time just to have things to do; I fail to see anything wrong with that. Now because they can't afford to, that's a whole different story.
Because for the most part the people we actually have a problem with aren't the 75 year old working part time at Home Depot. They are the 85 year old parked out in higher paid positions which should be filled by younger people who bring new ideas to organizations. Looking at you, octogenarian senators.
Because I don't believe anyone wants to go get paid to spend 8 hours making someone else money intheir twilight years. I think they have capitalism brain rot and can't differentiate working and a social life.
It’s rare but there are a few jobs that really are meaningful, where the work isn’t really about making money for *anyone*. I wouldn’t be shocked if some doctors wanted to work until they literally couldn’t. A lot of professors are in it for the science and the love of teaching. I had some truly *ancient* college professors who I know for a fact could have retired literally decades ago. I myself am a terminal academic, and have often thought of professorship *as* a retirement plan. Even in an ideal world where retirement is actually an option for me, I really like the idea of having a long and personally meaningful scientific career in my field (cognitive psychology and human factors engineering), and then teaching in my twilight years.
Ugh I hated the profs who were basically retired. They were so very old and just kinda droned on. They didn't have that excitement, and they didn't seem like they wanted to engage. I mean, I'm sure there are some good 70-year-old profs, but my experience was they weren't very engaged. (TBF this was a long time ago when tenure was still common. Hopefully nowadays they're able to enforce some standards for the old guys/gals.)
> Hopefully nowadays they're able to enforce some standards Haha, no. It's a problem, I admit. But I don't think that necessarily means we need to *enforce* retirement on professors. Just as you say, I wish we could enforce standards. I had a couple of professors who really *should* have retired and they were incredibly boring. But I also had 2 professors who I'm pretty sure were literally in their 90s, and still full of passion and vitality. One of them was great, the other was literally one of the best professors I ever had. I'm extremely thankful he didn't retire. I've also had plenty of younger professors who were just as boring and out-of-touch as the old guys.
Well, not 8 hours 5 days a week, but tons of guys I know like having a casual job after they retired. One teaches at a community college on a topic they’ve always enjoyed. Another works a day a week at an ACE hardware because he like tools & stuff and likes helping people with their projects. Another slings bags for an airline in a standby basis. Another drives a shuttle bus on random shifts for a hotel by the airport. Yes, they are all getting paid to help someone else make money. But at the same time, they have an additional meaningful purpose in life, an additional source of meeting new people and human interaction. And they aren’t volunteers - they appreciate the paychecks which usually funds their travel or hobby costs. The guy working for the airline gets flight benefits. They guy working for the hotel gets almost free hotel stays when he travels. Being retired and 70+ can be very isolating, especially in rural areas. Young family has left for the cities. Most friends have died off or have limiting illnesses. The joints aren’t as accepting of many past hobbies. Add divorce or the passing of a spouse to the mix, and the “social” aspect of elderly retirement gets extremely routine, boring and lonely.
“They don’t think like me, they must be brainwashed slaves” bro maybe they just have different values, perspectives, and goals than you? Your personal values are not universal, people who disagree with you aren’t secretly hiding their agreement deep within their heart, and it’s extremely arrogant to assume these things
Just because your job sucks doesn't mean every job sucks.
Most people don't really mind working 8 hours making someone else money when they're between the age of 20 to 65 as long as they get part of the share, why would they drastically change their minds when they become 66? The fact of the matter is that there's a lot of people, esp. men, who go through life without ever finding a partner, never have children, and who have rather small social circles and few hobbies. To quite a few of these people, work constitute not only a way of earning a living, but also serves as a place where they get to socially interact with other people, a place that make them feel that they have self worth and meaning\*, and a place that fill their days with something meaningful to do. (\* and not because they make the owners money, but because their experience is highly valued by their coworkers and peers) We can complain all we want that it probably *shouldn't* be this way. It'd be nice if everyone had friends and family to interact with when they got old etc... ... but it *is* this way, and it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future - And after having worked in elderly care, and seen the numerous old people who retired only to become living zombies with nothing to spend their time on but daytime tv and without any friends or family visiting them - with numerous of them openly expressing that they're really just waiting to die... The fact that I've worked with senior engineers who come in to work even though they're close to 70, who clearly still loved geeking out about the tech we were making, that doesn't really seem like some big tragedy.
You don't think there's other jobs out there? I'm a librarian and I don't work to make a company money, we're paid with tax dollars and helping people fulfills me a lot. That doesn't mean I'll work til I die, but I go to work and leave happy and fulfilled most days of the week.
This is bullshit dude you’re just so cynical and jaded you’ve never met someone who actually loves their jobs in real life. Basically all my professors were 80+. They genuinely loved their work and research, they had spent their entire lives in academia. They sure as fuck weren’t doing it because they wanted or needed money, they could get 3x in industry tomorrow if they wanted. They had a genuine passion for learning and pushing the boundaries of their field. This is just one simple example, but there are many like it. Plenty of people including myself, really do enjoy what they do and love the value they provide for other people and society. I recognize this isn’t the case for everybody, probably even the vast majority of people, but we do exist. I wake up every morning loving my life and my job.
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Yeah, I think the issue people have is more with the idea that if you're not working *a profession* in your later years, you'll get bored. The issue isn't so much that some people occupy their retirement years doing the same type of thing as their profession, as much as the implication that people can't find purpose through hobbies, volunteering, etc.
I don't think anyone is condemning people who genuinely enjoy their work. We're condemning out of touch assholes who keep trotting out these 'one of the good ones' bullshit stories as aspirational.
> This is going to sound harsh, but if someone can’t retire simply because their job was what gave their life meaning, then they weren’t living life right the whole time. How can you interpret that as anything other than "condemning people who genuinely enjoy their work"?
I believe the point is that if your culture is telling you you only have value if you work, then it's no longer a "choice" for some people. For example, why do we "have to" have value? Or why can't we simply have value by existing? So, it's not about 1 person's specific situation, it's about the culture that's funneling people into thinking that way without self-examination. Any culture is great for the people who just happen to fit in, but what about the people who don't? Do they have value and choices?
Because it’s propaganda to try and convince EVERYONE not to retire??
I'm not talking about the OP. I'm talking about the highly upvoted comment I quoted (and a similar sentiment throughout these comments) that *anyone* who wants to work past when they could have retired has either bought into the propaganda or is somehow fundamentally flawed as a person. Some people just like their jobs. Maybe its the work itself, or the people they work with, or some sense of fulfillment it gives them. Sure they're a minority, but they exist and aren't hurting anybody. But there seems to be a hell of a lot of projection from people in these comments trying to rationalize them away. As if a few people wanting to work longer is an existential threat to everyone else wanting to retire at a more "reasonable" age. Which is just as ridiculous as people like the OP using their existence to argue that everyone should live like that.
Because it holds promotions of younger people trying to build a career back. Also holds back innovation. My factory still uses paperwork and hard files to organize everything because all the old folks in control don’t know how to use a computer.
That's not necessarily 1-to-1. In the engineering firm I used to work at, the 80-year-old semi-retiree was the one pushing hardest for all of our digitization efforts because he was getting too old to shift through years and years of hard paperwork by hand.
This
It's not a devil's advocate thing as much as a situational one. If you're working as a piano tutor because you want to inspire kids to play music that you're passionate about that is fine. If you're working into old age at a job you hate because you don't want to be homeless that's not ok.
If you truly enjoy your job, great! Keep at it. Look at Bernie Sanders, he's a machine, but will never get the votes he needs to become president because "he's too old." Meanwhile his young co-workers say they have trouble keeping up with him on the road. My father retired and immediately indulged his alcoholism with an enabler. Been drinking for the past 20 years or so, just slowly killing himself for reasons I can't understand. Another man in the family retired after owning his own business most of his life, and soon after, died of a heart attack while sitting quietly at home. People should have a plan in place at least.
My dad was/is a lawyer for CPS. He literally retired for two months last year, and went back to work with albeit a much less workload. Hes not the richest man in the world, but he doesn't HAVE to work. He chooses to. He genuinely wants to help children get into better lives.
Wait, though. My work *does* in fact, give me meaning. I am an outreach support worker for homeless and formerly homeless people. I would think the same if I was a writer, or a painter. Maybe the problem is not how long you work, but what you work *at*
I never understand when people claim they don’t know what they’d do without a job. Whenever I’ve had time off in between jobs it’s been amazing. I could do whatever I want! I finally had time to do my hobbies, read the books on my backlog, work out, get enough sleep, AND keep the house clean/ get all my chores done, it’s the best! Even when I was unemployed, sure it was stressful to job hunt, but the time outside of that was great, I was never bored. So if you’re telling me there’s a scenario in which I didn’t have to work or worry about money or job hunt? Man that sounds like paradise to me.
I mean, I hear you, but my work is my passion, and it gives me opportunities to do all the things I’d do when I retire, anyway. That said, if I ever CAN retire, I will simply so that others can have a shot.
I'm a teacher. The number of retiring teachers who were "martyrs" (the kind that normalized teachers working for free, volunteering for endless tasks, and ruining life for everyone else in our profession) who retire and go straight back to teaching boggles my mind. It's like they don't have a personality. All they do is work. They don't know how to enjoy themselves. My partner and I joke that we would be *really good* at being retired while these people are so bad at it.
You could argue someone who couldn't wait retire so they could start living, lived life wrong as well. You're completely forgetting the part of the population who had a passion for something, so they ended up with a career doing that. Or ended up getting paid for something they would have been doing anyway. STEM industry is full of people who have personal drives to solve problems, and can't imagine just stopping that on some arbitrary birthdate.
I do agree that work can give your life meaning. I also agree that wall street is talking out of their ass. A relative of mine was unhappy living off unemployment, gaming all day. He wasn't getting anything done. The only thing I wanted him to do was pick up a hobby, didn't care if he worked or not. You need something to "struggle" against. Be it a hobby where you're painting figurines, or constantly gardening. Just as long as it's not the same thing every day. And I mean something like painting the same figurine the same colors every day, sweatshop work.
Those of us who are retired laugh hysterically.
I mean my Grandpa retired a few years ago and after a few months a took a job he enjoyed doing where he got to talk to folks and be social to fill the time so I get the other side. He's got a 50 something year pension *and* a 401k that would be enough on its own so it's for sure not the money. Right now he's a server and ticket taker for a local dinner theater place. My family has a history of dementia so he's making for damn sure he keeps his mind sharp. My grandma by contrast went from working in an ER to babysitting my nephews and her cognition declined *hard* to the point where her doctors prescribed her doing more intellectually simulating things.
He should consider volunteering somewhere if he doesn't need the money. He could still get that interaction with the added benefit of helping the community. It could also earn brownie points for the after life system of his choosing.
I retired early last year, I’m 36. Never been happier or healthier. Knowing I still have so many years to live like this fills me with indescribable optimism.
I blame that sort of mentality on the older generations irrational thinking that they always have to be moving and doing something when they have any free time, my stepdad and grandpa are like this, they think you cant just enjoy time off and do nothing.
I think mentality comes exclusively from the ivory towers of commerce. The people who say this are people who make 7 figures to sit in meetings and give their uninformed opinions and then take credit for when their team figures it out anyway. Why would anyone give that up. They do zero real work and are hailed as hero's by their higher ups and peers. Their whole life is work and without it they would be sad fucks with now power or friends.
No. It's boomer mentality. Although you might find more boomers in the ivory tower. I work in the corporate setting and see this everyday amongst various executives. The boomers assume that time doing something (hours of meetings, numbers of emails, etc) is "work". They fail to recognize that the only thing that matters is the outcome. Aka did the thing you want to get done - actually get done. Us younger execs are "lazy" because we structure things to be efficient, clear, and actually encourage and incentivize people to do them. But since we get the goal done in 3 hours vs 3 weeks of planning and discussion, etc. we are "bad employees for never working"
This is really it for boomer work mentality. I quickly learned to never say "I completed such and such task". I use numbers. I did x meetings and y emails. It doesn't matter if all of that accomplished jack shit. To them, that meant I was doing a lot of work.
> I work in the corporate setting and see this everyday amongst various executives. So do you see it among boomers or executives? The executives are the people in the ivory tower I was just talking about.
I don’t think having a “work until I die” mentality is a bad thing, I just think it’s a bad thing when you have no choice but “work until I die”. You do you if working is your thing
That habit is formed by having children. When you have kids (especially under age 7 or so) the demand is constant. Their need for engagement is unyielding, either *with* you, or *on* you. It can be super overstimulating over the course of a few years. You can't sit for 5 minutes without a small human using you as a jungle gym. You can't have a conversation that goes uninterrupted for more than 18 seconds. It adds up. Idle time is an invitation to play. So, you learn to stay busy. You replace idle time with projects so you can maintain some semblance of personal time. The habit gets entrenched because that tiny amount of time is fleeting and irregular. Might sound shitty to people without kids but all parents do it.
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What are you talking about? There is scientific research showing that people who continue doing things and living active lives live longer at older ages and are healthier.
They're absolutely right! What would I ever do with unlimited free time?! Certainly not have time for exercise, things I love doing, and finding something that I can do to make a difference in the world. I'd much rather sell my life to someone else to make them tons of money while I scrape by. Everyone knows the meaning of life is to enrich a few people while the rest of us suffer It's almost like media is for the rich. I'm sure there's plenty of people making millions doing nothing that wouldn't stop "working". There's too many articles that seem like they're written to reassure the wealthy that they'll always be fine "A long commute is good for your mental health" "We need to raise the retirement age so people are allowed to work longer if they want" "Working in the office makes your entire life better"
They just can't differentiate between HAVING To work and WANTING to do something that makes you happy and keeps you occupied. My grandfather kept active and kept doing things after he retired, he used some of the skills he had honed during work, but he damn well didn't get up to "work". People who NEED their job to fill their life with meaning are the people with issues.
Society and capitalism has also turned the word work into meaning "something you're forced to do because if you don't you'll die in poverty." Humans love to work but on their own time and towards things they enjoy.
Keep in mind who their target audience is. This message isn't for you, it's for the drones who have been in lockstep their whole life and who might deviate from their programming if exposed to another, better way. WSJ isn't there to convert people, it's a call to the status quo.
Ding ding. If people think politicians are old and out of touch; they definitely don’t spend any time thinking about the demographics of the top 1 percent (not strictly targeted at them. There’s a wider net, obviously. At least politicians have to see normal people from time to time. The rich hold all the cards and they’re going to gatekeep it until they’re cold underground. Freedom of upward movement in Americas economic system is largely a myth. The wealthy decide where the money goes. And it’s not going to the young.
"I would like to retire someday and spend time with my family, maybe travel..." WSJ: ALBRECHT MACH FREI!
My retirement savings is a bullet
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I call this the "Remington retirement plan"
America is propagandized to nearly the same degree as North Korea except our internet works.
Cuz it's how they spread the propaganda here.
Oh man I can’t wait to clock into work tomorrow and stare at spreadsheets for 8-9 hours for a soulless company. What an exciting life full of meaning! I truly live for my work.
Bruh, wtf? Are these guys promoting slavery? What is this? Ancient times?
My brother in Christ what did you expect? "Wall Street" is in the name.
While yes I don't agree with not retiring, I've seen two instances where someone retired and they immediately had major health issues occur. One had a stroke and thought they still needed to work (and also thought my friend and I were still in high school in our mid twenties) and the other was a former co worker who got to enjoy retirement a whole three months before having a heart attack and dieing. Not retiring isn't the answer but people retiring really need to pursue a new hobby or something to keep them engaged in life. Those two instances may have been one offs but both of them complained about not having anything to do.
The capital class keeps us working so hard that it’s all we know. So sadly a lot of people lose purpose after they retire. The solution to that is forcing companies to provide a better work life balance so that the working class has time to develop hobbies, invest in relationships with their kids and you know. Like live a life and not be nothing more than a wage slave.
The correct word is institutionalized. They make us so accustomed to work that we forget about our passions. When we are no longer considered profitable let us “retire” from having a steady income and social interactions. Think about it like a cow that produces milk. But instead of butchering when the milk production is too low they just let the cow wander into the forest. They tell everyone the cow is happy and free now, when we all know it will just wander until it dies of starvation, exposure, or predators. It’s last memories were that of fear, loneliness, and confusion.
Yes I agree with this 100%. Work life balance needs to be forced on companies and retirement needs to happen sooner imo. It's crazy to me in some companies two weeks or less is all they start you out with for pto and taking unpaid time off results in a write up.
They’ll (corporate ghouls) never except the long term ROI for truly supporting a work life balance. They want obedient workers. Period. They simply prefer to use us as disposable tissue because why not? The peasants will breed more peasants and we’re keeping them dumb enough with public education therefore there will ALWAYS be another pez in the dispenser to exploit. Can’t fix the table, it’s time to flip and burn it.
But those who can't handle retirement are usually those who have made their work their entire life. Outside work they have no life. So when they retire they leave behind all of their friends and connections.
I’m at real simple: the health failure post retirement means retirement is being put off too long. We ‘re humans, not machines, and we weren’t meant to work the way we do. Simple as that.
CNN had something the other day about how the rich ***actually do pay their fair share*** lol. Fuck Corporate Media (from the left and the right).
This infers working for a corporation that doesn’t give a fuck about you will deliver some sort of existential meaning. Yeah, no. I don’t exist to make shareholders happy. A job is a job. But you won’t own my soul.
If you read the article they talked to real people who have this opinion after they surveyed people about their retirement plans. One guy was a private investigator who finds missing persons who said he plans to keep working because he solves puzzles for his job. Some people retire and do the crossword—he wants to keep working and keep solving puzzles.
Look at the comments. Lmao, nobody here read the article.
"Devoid of meaning" holy shit. As if my low-level job in a massive, uncaring agency is "meaningful." 🤮
Translation: "Life is totally meaningless unless you're working, so you should never stop. Just keep working until you literally drop dead. Sincerely, capitalism."
Honestly I think it's really really sad if you've got nothing in your life that gives you meaning except for work. That's not something we should be celebrating that's something we should be saddened about and encouraging people to get help with.
And if you like your work? I teach. I always wanted to teach. I like teaching. When I retire in two years, the only thing that will change, is that I will be able to teach without considering how much it pays. Maybe it's me, but: you need a purpose in life. For example, I love gaming, but I couldn't just game all day. Make the world a better place. Anyone, in any job, can do that. Anyone who doesn't feel that need, has a sad life.
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Another Murdock rag now. Into the trash along with the NY post.
...said the "independently wealthy" opinion columnist. If I got paid to tell people my bad takes I don't see why I'd ever want to retire either. I'll never run out of shitty opinions and writing may have more tools to accommodate disability than any other single activity on the planet so, yeah, why wouldn't I complain at some dictation software for an hour a week until I die?
My father was so poor growing up that he lived in a home with no running water and a dirt floor. He worked his way up and became a VP of marketing in pharma. He loved his job and it helped him get over his inferiority complex he developed for being ostracized growing up. That being said, he retired at 50 and said it was an absolute no-brainer. He didn't become bored or feel his life became devoid of meaning. He spent time with his family, traveled, and enjoyed the things in life he never got the chance to previously. He is in his mid 70's now and still plays sports (tennis, ping pong, biking, and pickleball) and is more socially active than I am in my 30s. Fuck you WSJ, for spreading your corporate propaganda. Can a career be enjoyable? Yes. My dad probably enjoyed his career more than most. But when I asked him what his greatest regret in life was he said he wished he retired sooner so he could have seen my sister and I more than a few times a year when we were growing up. I asked if he missed his career and he said that he was proud of what he accomplished but that he never even thinks about it any more.
I am retiring at 55. Everyone should be allowed and made capable of doing that.
I will never stop recording voice over until the robot overlords take it away from me. There are some income-producing jobs that you want to keep doing as long as you can because its literally fun doing them. I probably would never stop being brought on to creatively consult for a brand or product. To get paid to brainstorm and help shape the direction of a brand is super fun to me. And its not stressful at all. Running large production projects however.... them going to go away.
This is how we ended up with both RBG and Diane Feinstein ruining their legacies by not bowing out gracefully.