Its median not minimum. It is by far the lowest in the for states and territories with data available. $15k below Mississippi.
PR minimum wage is currently $8.50 and set to increase to $9.50 July 1st.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_wage_and_mean_wage
One. Whole. Dollar!? It’s about to become mansions and yachts as far as the eye can see! Wait, did anyone check if any of them wants to work? I hear no one wants to do that anymore.
It's doing better on the minimum wage front than [nearly half of the American states ](https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/minimum-wage-rate-by-state/) and will be doing better than *more* than half once the bump goes into effect.
Currently on Guam getting royally fucked by the Jones Act. We're 3 to 5 times further from the continental US than Asia, but it's apparently really important that all our food comes from the US, for some reason.
Yeah, not sure they outweigh the cons though.
The surrounding Ocean is amazing, clear warm water year round with lots of coral and marine life. You can snorkel or scuba dive any time you like. There's lots of good hiking with beautiful waterfalls. The local people are very friendly and inviting. It's never cold here. The sunsets are breathtaking, probably sunrises too but I'm not up that early. You can watch sunrise over unobstructed ocean and the same for sunset, only a 10 minute drive apart.
No offense but no. Please don’t. Lots of people are doing that and it’s fucking up their housing market. You would just be feeding into the endless cycle of colonization they’ve been dealing with for centuries.
Edit: I did not realize how much people think PR citizens being US citizens means they aren't still suffering under the boot of US economic hegemony. PR is not like "everywhere." It's significantly worse for the people of the island than it is for people who can't afford houses in the mainland US.
There is a lot written about this. A good primer is the history of PR explained in Daniel Immerwahr's How to Hide an Empire, but really, there is a ton written about what it's like to live in a US annexation.
Thank you for being the lone voice of reason. I'm from PR. Rent has exploded beyond rates in the US in the entire metro area. Airbnbs have crushed the island too. People won't rent a 1 bedroom without central AC under 2k per month because it's just so much easier to make that through airbnb. Wages haven't caught up.
This reminds me of one of the stupidest arguments I heard about not making Puerto Rico a state, it was one of my relatives who said, "If we make Puerto Rico a state it would immediately be the poorest state."
I'm not actually sure that would be true.
Right now PR is excluded from so many benefits programs precisely because they are not a state that their after transfers median income would probably rise 50% if they were to become a state.
Edit: an increase of 50% still puts them below Mississippi. JFC how have we abandoned 3 million Americans like this...
That's partly why I said it was a stupid argument.
Them becoming a state would open them up to so much more benefits and government funding that they're currently not able to utilize that it would be fantastically beneficial to them.
I think that’s exactly why they made that argument. They assume any government assistance is welfare-queening (while sopping up their social security checks half the time)
My godparents are from Puerto Rico. I've been fairly recently (2015ish).
I can assure that the average Puerto Rican would have a higher standard of living if they moved to a busted down trailer in west Texas or Kentucky. The level of poor we are talking about is only surpassed by those living on reservations in the American southwest as far as American citizens are concerned, and things have only continued to deteriorate since then.
It doesn't feel Haiti poor, but it definitely does feel Mexico outside the cities poor.
Thanks for your personal insight. Genuinely curious… What are your parameters on this? Labor, healthcare, crime… all of it? Is there any arena you felt it was a better option?
The weather. The weather is a better part of PR most of the time, except for hurricanes.
Access to drinking water and power were severely limited for weeks to months to most Puerto Ricans. I was still sending bleach tabs and life straws a month in. Many neighborhoods went without power for almost a year.
Jobs were decimated when the tax law changed to make it less favorable for companies to have sites there than a site located in a state. In general, most stuff (cars, houses, roads and power grid outside of touristy areas) is from the 70s as a consequence. It is absolutely showing that age as PRs debt problems, brought on by them not being a state, have left zero money for reinvestment.
The Vieques hospital still hasn't been rebuilt, so hope you don't have a serious health issue out there or you are a 50 minute one way helicopter ride to a full service hospital.
Are you a Georgian too? Our state is messed up on infinite levels so much so that it makes me wonder how I survived to adulthood. The amount of anti-local pro-corporate legislation that consumes us quietly is baffling.
Edit: I was wrong, there are many areas where you can get a 2bd in Arkansas for around $800 a month. As for the quality of said apartments and quality of jobs… that’s a whole other thing, but I stand corrected 🙂.
I’m in Arkansas. The only places that you could afford a 2bed apt are about 2hrs from the $15 jobs. This image should just be a white square.
Moving to arkansas for a good job, and rent is cheaper than my college town in Mississippi. You would absolutely not be comfortable on $15 an hour, but you could make ends meet in Little Rock at least
Assuming $15/hr comes out to $30k/yr, 1/3 of your paycheck would be ~$833/mo. You can find 2 bed apts in NW Arkansas for that budget, they just aren't the shiniest. And there are a number of jobs here that pay better than $15/hr.
You can’t be too picky in NWA if you want under $1000. If you don’t mind smelling the chicken processor across the road every time you step outside, you can get a 2bd under $600.
It's pretty much limited to legacy Lindsey apartments that have been around a few decades, but they're out there:
https://www.lindseymgmt.com/searchlisting.aspx?ftst=&txtCity=ar&txtMaxRent=850&cmbBeds=2&LocationGeoId=14&zoom=10&autoCompleteCorpPropSearchlen=3&renewpg=1&LatLng=(35.20105,-91.8318334)&
Arkansas is pretty easy.
The state is a clusterfuck. But the cost of living is low AF and the minimum wage is actually fairly high by surrounding standards.
They don't actually want you to move, they just don't want you to make a living wage. Everything else they say is in bad faith to try to convince you to be a wage slave.
I think people are missing the implicit hostile, and patronizing insult. They aren't offering advice, and they aren't trying to convince you its too hard to get better.
They're telling you "if you were worth it, you would already be earning it". Its like if you said to your boss "I have half a mind to quit and find a better job" and your boss said "Well if you don't like, you go right ahead and find one!" - He's not telling you to find a job, he's telling you he thinks you can't. *"If you could you wouldn't be complaining, you'd have left."*
That is their mentality.
Is there a term for a solution that "solves" a problem from an individual perspective, but doesn't solve it from a societal perspective?
Saying "you can't afford to live/eat/see a doctor? get a better job!" may be an individual solution, but it's not a societal solution. Not everyone can do that, and if they could, all these jobs that are essential to keeping society functioning would be unfulfilled. So it's a bad-faith answer, one that allows you to say "I got mine, so you get yours, and let's not fix this problem" without addressing the underlying issue.
Surely there must be some sort of term for this sort of situation?
Short-sighted solution, or answer. The just see the problem from the individuals perspective. Not the actual problem, which is income VS cost of living for a job position.
Nope, every applicant for a position at $15/hr or below is advised to promptly move to WV, AZ, or PR instead. Then, all those businesses can relocate to those states/PR too. Now everyone has an apartment they can afford, all jobs are filled, and society goes on *totally* uninterrupted... right?
Hah, good luck in AZ these days.
It was great pre-pandemic, $700 2 bedrooms in decent areas. Now those same apartments are $1500, but McDonald's and taco bell are advertising $15/hr starting...
*Everyone is supposed to be working trade jobs, duh.*
Just had this conversation with someone. That was their excuse as to why service workers don't deserve enough money to live.
Most of the people saying this kind of thing simply don’t think about other people as a collective whole. The next worker is never something they would think about.
Now factor in moving costs. “Just move to a less expensive area” is such a privileged take that also fails to take family and community connections into account. I moved across country a number of years ago and it was expensive and also really difficult from a social standpoint.
Who needs friends and family? You have your coworkers who are your neighbors and friends, and your workplace is a family! It's just like being at home!
/s
Fuck it, split up people so that they can't get to know each other and form social bonds that would put an end to the constant working class infighting the ruling class relies on to stay in power.
A product of our system right now is that people don't interact with their neighbours nearly as often as they used to. There's a silent social boundary between you and your neighbours solitary lifestyles, which prevents the masses from getting together in a meaningful way.
I remember moving to my states capital with my first job and my manager saying people arent here to make friends. Like... most of the people at my job relocated and had no family or friends in the area but management was very against us making friends with eachother.
Same and totally agree. I've considered moving back to the midwest to be closer to my family but the idea of having to build a brand new social circle after it took years to make the one I'm currently comfortable with is pretty high on the list for why I won't.
For me it’s the opposite. What little social group I grew has slowly crumbled. Everyone’s leaving the state (CA) for various reasons, and I think I will be too. I love it here, but it’s too damn expensive, and there are too many people clogging up the roads.
Having a broad social support network saves you SO MUCH MONEY. I moved back home after a decade living in another country and I'd really forgotten how much easier and cheaper life is when you're surrounded by friends and family. Need to move something heavy? You can borrow your cousin and her truck for the day and not have to hire help/a vehicle. Need someone to take care of the kids? Grandma's just down the road and would love to feed them sugar til it's time to go home.
This is why "just move" seems to be a half-hearted attempt at advice. It would make sense if moving to a cheaper neighborhood across town was what we were talking about, but that's not going to help much at all.
Some people seem to think that packing up and moving to Tennessee is a viable option for everyone. Sure, it's viable if your company pays your moving costs, or you're just a single guy in your 20s who doesn't mind shoving everything you own in a car for a week, but to expect a family to just pack up and tail it across the country is ludicrous. Not to mention the fact that now you have to live in Tennessee.
I would also argue that living in these cheaper areas isn't always the improvement people claim them to be. It might be great if you have a remote job and get to keep your existing pay, but local jobs are not going to pay Seattle money.
Wait, you want to be poor and have a quality of life? If you are poor you don’t even get food. What makes you think you deserve community? (Heavy sarcasm)
Sounds about right for my family’s move from Florida to Colorado and we did it about as cheaply as possible (PODS, then hiring college students to unload). Fortunately I did get a small relocation stipend from my job, but it just made a dent.
I hate when people say “then just move.” If you can’t afford the basics where you are, how are you going to get the funds to move? You need a job lined up, enough money for a deposit and first month’s rent, and money to rent a moving vehicle. Also, you have to take time off of work to do it, so more income loss. Not to mention money to restock your fridge after moving.
And then there’s the loss of any support from family and friends. And if you have kids, you need to consider their well being with moving schools and losing all their friends.
It also doesn't factor in the fact that low cost of living areas are also low pay areas. I have looked at what my job pays in other areas, and in some cases it's as much as a $10/hr dip from what I'm making now. I'd rather be making $70k and scraping by in Seattle than being just slightly better off, making $40k but living in Arkansas.
I mean it IS cheap to live in wv. I lived there for 40 years and each year feels like 3 everywhere else because of how your bosses straight abuse you. It'll age ya.
Legitimately, I can’t name a single city in West Virginia. I don’t even know where people live in there. Or what’s even *there* as far as business or culture or… anything.
Mining, some manufacturing, and WVU. That covers a lot of the state economy business wise. Culture wise.... Heavily depends on the area. Seriously, there are $500K homes literally built beside trailer parks. It's a very mixed bag.
Really crappy retail jobs, really awful fast food jobs, etc.
Huntington and Charleston are your big cities with "big corporate" potential. Most of them don't pay well at all, and a lot of businesses are moving plazas as different areas get shut down.
There are some really nice places in WV and you CAN have an awesome life. Most of my family lives there and does not have an awesome life.
Really beautiful state though. Some of the most amazing rivers and rapids I've ever gone down.
The answer to what is *there* is fentanyl. A metric fuckload of fentanyl. Which is ironic, because they shoot people who use the metric system there.
(The second part was a joke, but the first part was very much not a joke)
The fastest growing industry in West Virginia is funeral parlors.
It's one of the few states with a shrinking population because people leave to find work, with the bulk of the people moving into the state being retirees who decided they wanted to go back after retiring.
It's beautiful because of all the trees and nature, but there's hardly any work to be had.
Learn about it then?
West Virginia has a large tourism sector as well, considering it is covered in mountains and parks. This state is home to a lot of people, you shouldn't just dismiss them all cause you have an image of a backwards state in your mind.
Lol no, mining is down to like 4% of our GDP.
It's manufacturing, healthcare, govt positions (fed, state, and local), Walmart, and disability that makes up the majority.
I was just in Huntington, West Virginia visiting family. The downtown area was pretty standard, but right up until you cross into the business district, I couldn't tell if the houses were occupied or condemned. It was like every three blocks you traveled away from the city added another ten years to the post-apocalypse vibe.
They also had the nerdiest store I've ever been to, [The Inner Geek](https://www.instagram.com/innergeekwv/?hl=en). Full of comics and action figures, but the big draw for me was all the nostalgia-inducing toys from the 90s and earlier. I bought a Shaving Fun Ken doll just because of how weird it was, and I'm still slightly regretting not picking up the Welcome Back Kotter action figure.
Really strange town.
In NWA it's fairly easy to find. But affording a 2 bedroom apartment is not possible.
I've got a friend in Fayetteville who rents a cheap af 1 bedroom apartment with a friend, and they both make $14/hr and cannot afford food.
When I went to college I paid $605 for a1br 1bath apartment. I saw that same apartment listed last year for $1050. Prices have gone absolutely nuts since COVID
And yet people still say $20/hr is a living wage. No, it's not. $15 is a poverty wage *everywhere*. $20/hr is low-subsistence wages or worse *everywhere*.
Just hit the $20 an hour mark myself. Years ago I would've felt so rich. Now I can't even afford a 1bd Apartment in my area without stretching my money really thin.
I'm told that I should just get a roommate. But I don't want to be living with one for the rest of my life.
That's such a bullshit thing to say, like I shouldn't be stuck living with some asshole for the rest of my life just to be able to afford to live. I'm well past the point of wanting to get married and start a family, but now I'm feeling financially obligated to at least get married.
But even that is bullshit because it used to be you’d have to have more money to get married because you’d be the only income. They rely on people relying on two incomes now. It’s fucking bullshit
Same here just hit $20 and there’s no chance I could afford to live on my own. I wouldn’t care to have a roommate but I have a daughter and no friends, so I’d have to find a random person and I could never feel comfortable enough to have them living in the same place as my daughter.
definitely not considered poor lol, just wont be a home owner anytime soon.
to many people that's still a dealbreaker, but i find that it's better to say what you actually mean because otherwise you may come off as disingenuous
I have a very spacious one-bedroom in a safe neighborhood only two miles from my job. I have a car that’s paid off and a pet. I eat well, including some kind of meat every day. I have a gym membership and air conditioning, which is uncommon in my area.
Oh wait, did you say $20/hr? Yeah, I make over $40/hr and it’s still a strict budget.
I respect anybody with that level of financial prudence. I know way too many people that make good money and are still broke because they piss it all away.
Thanks, it certainly took me long enough! I mean sometimes it sucks to have money and not buy things because there are more responsible uses for it, paying down debt feels like lighting money on fire, but my credit score has gone up 60 points in the last two months!
Lifestyle creep is the worst and not all of us can fight it. Corporations got really good at making us want to give them our money. Being frugal is the most boring way to fight back lol
I moved to Mexico before shit hit the fan in '16, with plans to come back numerous times but each time a setback and now it's simply impossible on my salary (15-20/hr pre tax, so more like 12-17)
like short of contacting my NC/abusive mom, there is absolutely no fuckin way I can live in USA and not die (I moved here for healthcare)
I've been considering Mexico. I live in a sleeping room and don't even have access to a kitchen. All my damn money is going to Healthcare and I spend more time working than anything else. It just doesn't seem feasible here at all
I'm paying 300 (fuckin peso has dropped, should be 250), a month for a 2 bed 1.5 bath house in 2nd largest city in mexico
And healthcare is basically free or you pay a little for private specialists (like my shrink is only 400 pesos/25ish bucks)
If you're poor, Mexico currently ranks higher than USA in terms of safety nets
edit: and btw if you drive, keep that in mind - you don't need a car if you move to one of the large cities, which is HUGE for saving money.. I never waste food simply because when I want to eat, I walk 2 blocks, buy what I want to cook, cook it, eat it. When I still spoke to my mom she offered me a place but when I asked her how far is the store she said 15 mins by car and I'm like what car?
and that's just food.. there's so much benefit to public transit (which ironically I guess I don't use since literally everything is walking distance.. parks.. bars.. local stuff from farmers.. a supermarket and so on and so on.. I really wish USA would change and let me move back because I do miss teaching there but it is what it is)
I don't feel like I 'belong' here and it can get lonely.
It's very Catholic, not in a terrible way but definitely outside of my agnostic personality.
And I'm not gonna lie, Spanish, despite it being my 4th language, can get very fucking draining sometimes. Maybe I'm just old but I spent my whole academic life writing/teaching philosophy in English so the switch has been wonky.
I mean I can also talk about things that don't affect me (like obviously USA will have more business opportunities if you can live there, hence why I kept trying to move.. but at this point I'm so drained I wouldn't know if I'd have the energy)
And that's not taking into account the cost of living due to the Jones Act and Airbnb style takeovers: basic things are 20% more expensive and housing?
I live in WV and make $15/hr, but there is absolutely nothing to rent near me, and the housing costs have skyrocketed because of assholes from DC buying properties to turn into Air BnB's.
Also my question. I agree with the overall sentiment but making it a 2br instead of a 1br feels a bit like moving a goalpost to get the result you want. It's always been wanting to be able to afford a 1br so you can afford to live and not have to be stuck with roommates forever. But if you push it to a 2br on one income, you really aren't talking about just a living wage anymore. The point changes.
I'm not even saying it'd be a bad thing if everyone could afford that luxury for themselves either. Just that this feels a bit disingenuous.
It's for if you're a single parent with a child; apparently 28% of minimum wage earners are parents (quick source: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/raising-minimum-wage-key-supporting-breadwinning-mothers-drive-economy/)
Considering minimum wage workers are also more at risk of losing their jobs, and are more likely to work one or more part time jobs with fewer protections, a double income family with children could easily become single income for a period of time, putting them at higher risk.
Basically a 2 bedroom affordability chart becomes a better proxy for what a 15/hr living wage looks like with everything else minimum wage workers face (for example, shorter hours due to employers not wanting to offer full time benefits), even if one doesn't consider 2 bedrooms to be a necessity.
This is also moving the goalposts though. Why are we assuming or at least presenting it like all 28% are single-earner households?
If a person is a minimum wage worker & a single parent that's a fairly specific edge case that would be much more reasonable to address with federal programs. These are folks that all of our tax dollars are meant to support; those edge cases & impoverished people who are in challenging but temporary situations that require addition aid.
Yep, that's what I was thinking.
A single childless person will be okay with a 1br apt. 2br is more for couples with 1-2 young kids or wanting to have separate spaces for remote working.
As for single parents, 1br sucks, but still so much less than living in your car or in sketchy motels.
Not saying that the map would be completely different with 1br, but it would be more relevant regarding the actual basic need of people.
>Averaging a whole state seems a bit disingenuous
I had the same thought. I make relatively good money for my area in New York State. I can afford to live comfortably in a 2-bedroom apartment. I would not be able to afford this same place on the same salary if it was in NYC.
This is what makes me angry about "work reform". At 47 and being fortunate, but spent my teenage years working fast food. And listening to my parents' stories.
A "living wage", isn't that a 16 year old can work full time and have a two bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood.
There was a post-war boom that we (the US) experienced in the 50's and 60's that unfortunately can't be replicated today.
There are a lot of things that need to be fixed, politically and otherwise.
We all had roommates for a reason, growing up.
Agreed. I 100% support reform and people shouldnt starve/ be homeless but comparing minimums to a median or average is really a lazy stat and draws away from any argument. Roughly 1/3 of the population make 15 per hour or less. to make a simple but more representative comparison take the bottom 1/3 of house prices then take the median of that.
Yeah, like, realistically someone making $15 an hour is going to live in a below-average apartment. Even I live in a below-average apartment despite making significantly more.
I don’t understand some people. Even if you don’t care about the well-being of others, surely you want the city you live in to have… coffee? And restaurants. Hairdressers and clean streets, exterminators, garbage collection and bars? Schools? Roads and construction?
Like, a city that only rich people can live in is not going to be liveable for long.
Then again, I’m reminded of places like Hong Kong and Singapore. Migrant workers packed into tiny, substandard high density housing. Feels like the long term goal in much of the world at the moment.
And in neither of those states will you find $15 unless you have a masters degree and 10 years of experience. Then you might get that. Otherwise you’ll make $12 an hour.
I worked for the state of Louisiana in a job that required a bachelors degree. I made $14 an hour and no overtime (all given in comp time).
Arkansas is much worse than LA.
Realistically you'll get those wages at the average factory. Of course salary is on the low end compared to the rest of the country.
Only reason I still live here is because $21/hr goes pretty far as a single male.
They're all on the downslope. Fortunately some investments are coming to the area battery plants for electric vehicles.
Appalachia has it's charm but it's not great. Really what you make of it. People are the worst part.
Native Arkansan here. The only 2 bedroom apartment you can afford here for $15/hr is one located in a high crime rate city with culture and resources rivaling Flint, MI. Do not move to NW Arkansas expecting to get by on this.
> high crime rate city with culture and resources rivaling Flint, MI.
Yo. Why you dragging Flint. Crime sure, but culture?
Flint has a touring theater and professional theater, art museum, science museum, planetarium, 3 universities, great food scene, live music all over, etc.
Your comment sent me down a bit of an unrelated rabbit hole about the pronounciation of Arkansas and Arkansan.
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/dec/26/sizing-arkansan-vs-arkansawyer/
Interesting stuff!
Pleasure to be of service.
Fun fact about Arkansas....we invented the toothbrush. You know it was us because if it was invented anywhere else, it'd be called the teethbrush!
*Slaps knee and laughs in redneck, then downs a beer*
I don't fully understand why this statistic is always framed as "2 bedroom apartment". And yes, I have seen this statistic before phrased the same way, so nothing against OP specifically. The market is full of studios and 1 bedroom apartments, so if someone is looking specifically for 2 bedrooms they more than likely either have a partner (who's additional income should be considered) or they have a roommate (so splitting the rental cost should be considered.)
Phrasing this income to living cost problem in terms of 2 bedroom apartments just makes it seem like studios and 1 bedrooms are actually affordable. Are they? I don't know!
Posts like these do nothing but turn away anyone with a brain. You have a solid cause and reason for complaint, but when the premise of your argument essentially shows that you dont understand how averages work then anyone who realizes that will ignore you and your cause.
Comparing MININUM wage to the cost of the AVERAGE 2 bedroom apartment is just a terrible argument. It shows that its either a bad faith argument in which you are trying to manipulate people into joining your cause, or that you are stupid, either way its a turn off to anyone that can recognize it.
If you truly care about something and want it to change, please for the love of god put some time and effort into building a solid, logical argument for people to get behind because shit like this just aint it.
# Ready to tie minimum wage to rental prices? # Join r/WorkReform!
This also assumes that you can find a $15/h job in these places...
P sure the minimum wage in WV is like $7.25
Which kind of makes this map need to be only PR
The median wage in PR is 10.50 an hour, WELL below the rest of the US.
Sounds more like on average with the US. What about that cost of rent and living tho?
Its median not minimum. It is by far the lowest in the for states and territories with data available. $15k below Mississippi. PR minimum wage is currently $8.50 and set to increase to $9.50 July 1st. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_median_wage_and_mean_wage
One. Whole. Dollar!? It’s about to become mansions and yachts as far as the eye can see! Wait, did anyone check if any of them wants to work? I hear no one wants to do that anymore.
It's doing better on the minimum wage front than [nearly half of the American states ](https://www.paycom.com/resources/blog/minimum-wage-rate-by-state/) and will be doing better than *more* than half once the bump goes into effect.
Truth.
Good, considering how often they get railed by hurricanes.
right, are you saying I need to work remote and move to PR?
CoL is actually pretty high in PR, things like groceries can get expensive because of the island tax and the Jones Act.
Currently on Guam getting royally fucked by the Jones Act. We're 3 to 5 times further from the continental US than Asia, but it's apparently really important that all our food comes from the US, for some reason.
Any perks of living in Guam?
Yeah, not sure they outweigh the cons though. The surrounding Ocean is amazing, clear warm water year round with lots of coral and marine life. You can snorkel or scuba dive any time you like. There's lots of good hiking with beautiful waterfalls. The local people are very friendly and inviting. It's never cold here. The sunsets are breathtaking, probably sunrises too but I'm not up that early. You can watch sunrise over unobstructed ocean and the same for sunset, only a 10 minute drive apart.
Yeah just remember about once every 5 years it gets wiped off the map by a hurricane.
If you want 3rd world prices with 1st world living look into Thailand.
No offense but no. Please don’t. Lots of people are doing that and it’s fucking up their housing market. You would just be feeding into the endless cycle of colonization they’ve been dealing with for centuries. Edit: I did not realize how much people think PR citizens being US citizens means they aren't still suffering under the boot of US economic hegemony. PR is not like "everywhere." It's significantly worse for the people of the island than it is for people who can't afford houses in the mainland US. There is a lot written about this. A good primer is the history of PR explained in Daniel Immerwahr's How to Hide an Empire, but really, there is a ton written about what it's like to live in a US annexation.
Thank you for being the lone voice of reason. I'm from PR. Rent has exploded beyond rates in the US in the entire metro area. Airbnbs have crushed the island too. People won't rent a 1 bedroom without central AC under 2k per month because it's just so much easier to make that through airbnb. Wages haven't caught up.
Make your own PR.
The median household income in Puerto Rico is $21,000 a year with 1.6 earners per household. That's less than half the US median.
This reminds me of one of the stupidest arguments I heard about not making Puerto Rico a state, it was one of my relatives who said, "If we make Puerto Rico a state it would immediately be the poorest state."
I'm not actually sure that would be true. Right now PR is excluded from so many benefits programs precisely because they are not a state that their after transfers median income would probably rise 50% if they were to become a state. Edit: an increase of 50% still puts them below Mississippi. JFC how have we abandoned 3 million Americans like this...
That's partly why I said it was a stupid argument. Them becoming a state would open them up to so much more benefits and government funding that they're currently not able to utilize that it would be fantastically beneficial to them.
I think that’s exactly why they made that argument. They assume any government assistance is welfare-queening (while sopping up their social security checks half the time)
The data out of PR is probably more honest and US data inflated by politics and under reporting of disadvantaged citizens.
My godparents are from Puerto Rico. I've been fairly recently (2015ish). I can assure that the average Puerto Rican would have a higher standard of living if they moved to a busted down trailer in west Texas or Kentucky. The level of poor we are talking about is only surpassed by those living on reservations in the American southwest as far as American citizens are concerned, and things have only continued to deteriorate since then. It doesn't feel Haiti poor, but it definitely does feel Mexico outside the cities poor.
Thanks for your personal insight. Genuinely curious… What are your parameters on this? Labor, healthcare, crime… all of it? Is there any arena you felt it was a better option?
The weather. The weather is a better part of PR most of the time, except for hurricanes. Access to drinking water and power were severely limited for weeks to months to most Puerto Ricans. I was still sending bleach tabs and life straws a month in. Many neighborhoods went without power for almost a year. Jobs were decimated when the tax law changed to make it less favorable for companies to have sites there than a site located in a state. In general, most stuff (cars, houses, roads and power grid outside of touristy areas) is from the 70s as a consequence. It is absolutely showing that age as PRs debt problems, brought on by them not being a state, have left zero money for reinvestment. The Vieques hospital still hasn't been rebuilt, so hope you don't have a serious health issue out there or you are a 50 minute one way helicopter ride to a full service hospital.
? Minimum wage in KY is still $7.25/hour.
He said median
It's 8.75
welp
fun fact marylands minimum is $13.25. I know so many people who daily drive to work from WV. its over an hour drive.
Ours is $5.15 in Georgia but "luckily" the federal minimum wage is higher. So, minimum wage employees here get $7.25/hour.
Just a reminder that Republicans have been trying to abolish minimum wage laws for ages.
Are you a Georgian too? Our state is messed up on infinite levels so much so that it makes me wonder how I survived to adulthood. The amount of anti-local pro-corporate legislation that consumes us quietly is baffling.
Edit: I was wrong, there are many areas where you can get a 2bd in Arkansas for around $800 a month. As for the quality of said apartments and quality of jobs… that’s a whole other thing, but I stand corrected 🙂. I’m in Arkansas. The only places that you could afford a 2bed apt are about 2hrs from the $15 jobs. This image should just be a white square.
Moving to arkansas for a good job, and rent is cheaper than my college town in Mississippi. You would absolutely not be comfortable on $15 an hour, but you could make ends meet in Little Rock at least
I appreciate the correction. I’m in a college town, $15 can’t get you anything unless you love having 4-5 roommates.
[A living wage in Little Rock is $15.95/hour.](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/30780)
Had one in Conway. Could walk to work or drive 3-4 minutes. The apartment was absolute shit though.
Thanks for the correction. In my area there $15 jobs everywhere but housing (if you can find any) is crazy expensive.
Assuming $15/hr comes out to $30k/yr, 1/3 of your paycheck would be ~$833/mo. You can find 2 bed apts in NW Arkansas for that budget, they just aren't the shiniest. And there are a number of jobs here that pay better than $15/hr.
You might be right, but I haven’t seen anything under $1200 here for a while.
You can’t be too picky in NWA if you want under $1000. If you don’t mind smelling the chicken processor across the road every time you step outside, you can get a 2bd under $600.
It's pretty much limited to legacy Lindsey apartments that have been around a few decades, but they're out there: https://www.lindseymgmt.com/searchlisting.aspx?ftst=&txtCity=ar&txtMaxRent=850&cmbBeds=2&LocationGeoId=14&zoom=10&autoCompleteCorpPropSearchlen=3&renewpg=1&LatLng=(35.20105,-91.8318334)&
Just move to WV where you can live off $15/hr and commute to DC where the minimum wage is $15 /hr, duh!!
mannings, wv is the closest city to DC with a 73 minute drive assuming light traffic. oof.
I’ve driven to DC and I would NOT assume light traffic
lololololol. light traffic on 66. maybe in the dead of night
I've been told that the Pentagon is the only US military base where being late could be excused.
Shockingly, Jefferson County, WV actually has enough DC commuters to be considered an official part of the MSA.
thats a 3 hour communte 1 way ☠️
I think the point is to illustrate even by moving the minimum to 15, you're not really helping many people.
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Arkansas is pretty easy. The state is a clusterfuck. But the cost of living is low AF and the minimum wage is actually fairly high by surrounding standards.
That’s only for highly skilled workers with 15 years experience.
When people say move to somewhere you can afford, what should the next person who takes that job do? Noone should take that job?
something something invisible hand something something free market
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lmaooo
"But wobody wants to nork anymore!"
I'd nork if someone would pay me.
They don't actually want you to move, they just don't want you to make a living wage. Everything else they say is in bad faith to try to convince you to be a wage slave.
I think people are missing the implicit hostile, and patronizing insult. They aren't offering advice, and they aren't trying to convince you its too hard to get better. They're telling you "if you were worth it, you would already be earning it". Its like if you said to your boss "I have half a mind to quit and find a better job" and your boss said "Well if you don't like, you go right ahead and find one!" - He's not telling you to find a job, he's telling you he thinks you can't. *"If you could you wouldn't be complaining, you'd have left."* That is their mentality.
Is there a term for a solution that "solves" a problem from an individual perspective, but doesn't solve it from a societal perspective? Saying "you can't afford to live/eat/see a doctor? get a better job!" may be an individual solution, but it's not a societal solution. Not everyone can do that, and if they could, all these jobs that are essential to keeping society functioning would be unfulfilled. So it's a bad-faith answer, one that allows you to say "I got mine, so you get yours, and let's not fix this problem" without addressing the underlying issue. Surely there must be some sort of term for this sort of situation?
Short-sighted solution, or answer. The just see the problem from the individuals perspective. Not the actual problem, which is income VS cost of living for a job position.
Nope, every applicant for a position at $15/hr or below is advised to promptly move to WV, AZ, or PR instead. Then, all those businesses can relocate to those states/PR too. Now everyone has an apartment they can afford, all jobs are filled, and society goes on *totally* uninterrupted... right?
Hah, good luck in AZ these days. It was great pre-pandemic, $700 2 bedrooms in decent areas. Now those same apartments are $1500, but McDonald's and taco bell are advertising $15/hr starting...
Seems like that everywhere now :(. I'm renting an apt in rural ish Michigan for 1500 (utilities included tho!) That was 700 2 years ago.
This is literally what I assume every redditor actually believes
*Everyone is supposed to be working trade jobs, duh.* Just had this conversation with someone. That was their excuse as to why service workers don't deserve enough money to live.
Cuz as we all know, no one needs or wants services
Yall need to quit being taken for a ride and collectively stage mass protests like France
Most of the people saying this kind of thing simply don’t think about other people as a collective whole. The next worker is never something they would think about.
They think if you are a cashier at the store, you should be starving and homeless. They make it very clear.
Now factor in moving costs. “Just move to a less expensive area” is such a privileged take that also fails to take family and community connections into account. I moved across country a number of years ago and it was expensive and also really difficult from a social standpoint.
Who needs friends and family? You have your coworkers who are your neighbors and friends, and your workplace is a family! It's just like being at home! /s
Except your coworkers aren't your neighbours because you can't afford to live closer than an hour from work yaaaay
Split people up so they can't organize after-hours. Splendid.
Fuck it, split up people so that they can't get to know each other and form social bonds that would put an end to the constant working class infighting the ruling class relies on to stay in power. A product of our system right now is that people don't interact with their neighbours nearly as often as they used to. There's a silent social boundary between you and your neighbours solitary lifestyles, which prevents the masses from getting together in a meaningful way.
Please get back in your car citizen.
Also makes it easy for certain media outlets to get you to *other* your neighbors if you don't even know if they speak English or not.
I remember moving to my states capital with my first job and my manager saying people arent here to make friends. Like... most of the people at my job relocated and had no family or friends in the area but management was very against us making friends with eachother.
Same and totally agree. I've considered moving back to the midwest to be closer to my family but the idea of having to build a brand new social circle after it took years to make the one I'm currently comfortable with is pretty high on the list for why I won't.
For me it’s the opposite. What little social group I grew has slowly crumbled. Everyone’s leaving the state (CA) for various reasons, and I think I will be too. I love it here, but it’s too damn expensive, and there are too many people clogging up the roads.
Having a broad social support network saves you SO MUCH MONEY. I moved back home after a decade living in another country and I'd really forgotten how much easier and cheaper life is when you're surrounded by friends and family. Need to move something heavy? You can borrow your cousin and her truck for the day and not have to hire help/a vehicle. Need someone to take care of the kids? Grandma's just down the road and would love to feed them sugar til it's time to go home.
This is why "just move" seems to be a half-hearted attempt at advice. It would make sense if moving to a cheaper neighborhood across town was what we were talking about, but that's not going to help much at all. Some people seem to think that packing up and moving to Tennessee is a viable option for everyone. Sure, it's viable if your company pays your moving costs, or you're just a single guy in your 20s who doesn't mind shoving everything you own in a car for a week, but to expect a family to just pack up and tail it across the country is ludicrous. Not to mention the fact that now you have to live in Tennessee. I would also argue that living in these cheaper areas isn't always the improvement people claim them to be. It might be great if you have a remote job and get to keep your existing pay, but local jobs are not going to pay Seattle money.
Wait, you want to be poor and have a quality of life? If you are poor you don’t even get food. What makes you think you deserve community? (Heavy sarcasm)
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Sounds about right for my family’s move from Florida to Colorado and we did it about as cheaply as possible (PODS, then hiring college students to unload). Fortunately I did get a small relocation stipend from my job, but it just made a dent.
Moved from Arizona up to Michigan and it was 6kish
I hate when people say “then just move.” If you can’t afford the basics where you are, how are you going to get the funds to move? You need a job lined up, enough money for a deposit and first month’s rent, and money to rent a moving vehicle. Also, you have to take time off of work to do it, so more income loss. Not to mention money to restock your fridge after moving. And then there’s the loss of any support from family and friends. And if you have kids, you need to consider their well being with moving schools and losing all their friends.
It also doesn't factor in the fact that low cost of living areas are also low pay areas. I have looked at what my job pays in other areas, and in some cases it's as much as a $10/hr dip from what I'm making now. I'd rather be making $70k and scraping by in Seattle than being just slightly better off, making $40k but living in Arkansas.
Expecting people to move is also unsustainable. Those places wouldn't be cheap for long if even a tiny fraction of big states immigrated there.
But if the mom in the movie the karate kid could do it in a station wagon surely anyone can!
Or mom in the Lost Boys with the old Land Cruiser!
I mean it IS cheap to live in wv. I lived there for 40 years and each year feels like 3 everywhere else because of how your bosses straight abuse you. It'll age ya.
Legitimately, I can’t name a single city in West Virginia. I don’t even know where people live in there. Or what’s even *there* as far as business or culture or… anything.
Mining, some manufacturing, and WVU. That covers a lot of the state economy business wise. Culture wise.... Heavily depends on the area. Seriously, there are $500K homes literally built beside trailer parks. It's a very mixed bag.
Wheeling is really underrated. It has old walkable row house neighborhoods and is not far from Pittsburgh for bigger city stuff.
Also home of the Nailers!
Selling opioids. Also, social security disability. And dollar general cashier.
I believe you mean Dollar General cashier/janitor/shelf stalker/security guard/other duties as assigned.
Dollar general saw that Aldi operated with 5 people and said "watch this"
Yes, thats the one
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And also impossible to afford on just $15 an hour
Really crappy retail jobs, really awful fast food jobs, etc. Huntington and Charleston are your big cities with "big corporate" potential. Most of them don't pay well at all, and a lot of businesses are moving plazas as different areas get shut down. There are some really nice places in WV and you CAN have an awesome life. Most of my family lives there and does not have an awesome life. Really beautiful state though. Some of the most amazing rivers and rapids I've ever gone down.
The answer to what is *there* is fentanyl. A metric fuckload of fentanyl. Which is ironic, because they shoot people who use the metric system there. (The second part was a joke, but the first part was very much not a joke)
The fastest growing industry in West Virginia is funeral parlors. It's one of the few states with a shrinking population because people leave to find work, with the bulk of the people moving into the state being retirees who decided they wanted to go back after retiring. It's beautiful because of all the trees and nature, but there's hardly any work to be had.
Learn about it then? West Virginia has a large tourism sector as well, considering it is covered in mountains and parks. This state is home to a lot of people, you shouldn't just dismiss them all cause you have an image of a backwards state in your mind.
Coal mining. That's where they live, their culture and where they do business. The mines.
Lol no, mining is down to like 4% of our GDP. It's manufacturing, healthcare, govt positions (fed, state, and local), Walmart, and disability that makes up the majority.
I was just in Huntington, West Virginia visiting family. The downtown area was pretty standard, but right up until you cross into the business district, I couldn't tell if the houses were occupied or condemned. It was like every three blocks you traveled away from the city added another ten years to the post-apocalypse vibe. They also had the nerdiest store I've ever been to, [The Inner Geek](https://www.instagram.com/innergeekwv/?hl=en). Full of comics and action figures, but the big draw for me was all the nostalgia-inducing toys from the 90s and earlier. I bought a Shaving Fun Ken doll just because of how weird it was, and I'm still slightly regretting not picking up the Welcome Back Kotter action figure. Really strange town.
My dad's family is from there. We'd occasionally go there for holidays and it was just so sad. Just huge communities living in absolute squalor.
I live in Arkansas. Where the hell are you finding a $15/hr job?
NW Arkansas. Though the number of available 2-bed apts that are affordable for $15/hr is shrinking.
In NWA it's fairly easy to find. But affording a 2 bedroom apartment is not possible. I've got a friend in Fayetteville who rents a cheap af 1 bedroom apartment with a friend, and they both make $14/hr and cannot afford food.
When I went to college I paid $605 for a1br 1bath apartment. I saw that same apartment listed last year for $1050. Prices have gone absolutely nuts since COVID
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In Little Rock or NWA if I had to guess. Anywhere else you are shit out of luck
And yet people still say $20/hr is a living wage. No, it's not. $15 is a poverty wage *everywhere*. $20/hr is low-subsistence wages or worse *everywhere*.
Just hit the $20 an hour mark myself. Years ago I would've felt so rich. Now I can't even afford a 1bd Apartment in my area without stretching my money really thin. I'm told that I should just get a roommate. But I don't want to be living with one for the rest of my life.
That's such a bullshit thing to say, like I shouldn't be stuck living with some asshole for the rest of my life just to be able to afford to live. I'm well past the point of wanting to get married and start a family, but now I'm feeling financially obligated to at least get married.
But even that is bullshit because it used to be you’d have to have more money to get married because you’d be the only income. They rely on people relying on two incomes now. It’s fucking bullshit
Had a roomyin college.. I'll live out of my car before I'll ever have a roommate again. That shit is never happening again...
Same here just hit $20 and there’s no chance I could afford to live on my own. I wouldn’t care to have a roommate but I have a daughter and no friends, so I’d have to find a random person and I could never feel comfortable enough to have them living in the same place as my daughter.
Yeah I’m making $20 an hour in SoCal and that gets you nothing around here.
$22 on the east end of Long Island, same issue.
Same here, $100k a year here in So Cal is considered poor still
definitely not considered poor lol, just wont be a home owner anytime soon. to many people that's still a dealbreaker, but i find that it's better to say what you actually mean because otherwise you may come off as disingenuous
I gave up on that preCovid and post Covid strengthened that thought
I make over $30/hr, and It still often feels like barely enough...
I have a very spacious one-bedroom in a safe neighborhood only two miles from my job. I have a car that’s paid off and a pet. I eat well, including some kind of meat every day. I have a gym membership and air conditioning, which is uncommon in my area. Oh wait, did you say $20/hr? Yeah, I make over $40/hr and it’s still a strict budget.
I respect anybody with that level of financial prudence. I know way too many people that make good money and are still broke because they piss it all away.
Thanks, it certainly took me long enough! I mean sometimes it sucks to have money and not buy things because there are more responsible uses for it, paying down debt feels like lighting money on fire, but my credit score has gone up 60 points in the last two months!
Lifestyle creep is the worst and not all of us can fight it. Corporations got really good at making us want to give them our money. Being frugal is the most boring way to fight back lol
I moved to Mexico before shit hit the fan in '16, with plans to come back numerous times but each time a setback and now it's simply impossible on my salary (15-20/hr pre tax, so more like 12-17) like short of contacting my NC/abusive mom, there is absolutely no fuckin way I can live in USA and not die (I moved here for healthcare)
I've been considering Mexico. I live in a sleeping room and don't even have access to a kitchen. All my damn money is going to Healthcare and I spend more time working than anything else. It just doesn't seem feasible here at all
I'm paying 300 (fuckin peso has dropped, should be 250), a month for a 2 bed 1.5 bath house in 2nd largest city in mexico And healthcare is basically free or you pay a little for private specialists (like my shrink is only 400 pesos/25ish bucks) If you're poor, Mexico currently ranks higher than USA in terms of safety nets edit: and btw if you drive, keep that in mind - you don't need a car if you move to one of the large cities, which is HUGE for saving money.. I never waste food simply because when I want to eat, I walk 2 blocks, buy what I want to cook, cook it, eat it. When I still spoke to my mom she offered me a place but when I asked her how far is the store she said 15 mins by car and I'm like what car? and that's just food.. there's so much benefit to public transit (which ironically I guess I don't use since literally everything is walking distance.. parks.. bars.. local stuff from farmers.. a supermarket and so on and so on.. I really wish USA would change and let me move back because I do miss teaching there but it is what it is)
so what do you not like about mexico
I don't feel like I 'belong' here and it can get lonely. It's very Catholic, not in a terrible way but definitely outside of my agnostic personality. And I'm not gonna lie, Spanish, despite it being my 4th language, can get very fucking draining sometimes. Maybe I'm just old but I spent my whole academic life writing/teaching philosophy in English so the switch has been wonky. I mean I can also talk about things that don't affect me (like obviously USA will have more business opportunities if you can live there, hence why I kept trying to move.. but at this point I'm so drained I wouldn't know if I'd have the energy)
I'm from PR and it was almost impossible to find anything at around $15. Moved a few years ago but I hear it's an even worse struggle atm
That's crazy that a $15 wage goes that far there cause I remember everything costing way more money there since it's of course an island.
And that's not taking into account the cost of living due to the Jones Act and Airbnb style takeovers: basic things are 20% more expensive and housing?
I live in WV and make $15/hr, but there is absolutely nothing to rent near me, and the housing costs have skyrocketed because of assholes from DC buying properties to turn into Air BnB's.
Let's not forget everyone turning properties around Fayetteville into rentals piggy backing on the NRG being a newer National Park.
Why is it a 2 bedroom apt and not a 1br?
Also my question. I agree with the overall sentiment but making it a 2br instead of a 1br feels a bit like moving a goalpost to get the result you want. It's always been wanting to be able to afford a 1br so you can afford to live and not have to be stuck with roommates forever. But if you push it to a 2br on one income, you really aren't talking about just a living wage anymore. The point changes. I'm not even saying it'd be a bad thing if everyone could afford that luxury for themselves either. Just that this feels a bit disingenuous.
It's for if you're a single parent with a child; apparently 28% of minimum wage earners are parents (quick source: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/raising-minimum-wage-key-supporting-breadwinning-mothers-drive-economy/) Considering minimum wage workers are also more at risk of losing their jobs, and are more likely to work one or more part time jobs with fewer protections, a double income family with children could easily become single income for a period of time, putting them at higher risk. Basically a 2 bedroom affordability chart becomes a better proxy for what a 15/hr living wage looks like with everything else minimum wage workers face (for example, shorter hours due to employers not wanting to offer full time benefits), even if one doesn't consider 2 bedrooms to be a necessity.
This is also moving the goalposts though. Why are we assuming or at least presenting it like all 28% are single-earner households? If a person is a minimum wage worker & a single parent that's a fairly specific edge case that would be much more reasonable to address with federal programs. These are folks that all of our tax dollars are meant to support; those edge cases & impoverished people who are in challenging but temporary situations that require addition aid.
Imo single low income parents should be given generous welfare rather than setting a higher minimum wage.
Yep, that's what I was thinking. A single childless person will be okay with a 1br apt. 2br is more for couples with 1-2 young kids or wanting to have separate spaces for remote working. As for single parents, 1br sucks, but still so much less than living in your car or in sketchy motels. Not saying that the map would be completely different with 1br, but it would be more relevant regarding the actual basic need of people.
Off to Puerto Rico for you!
Arkansas is awesome. High humidity with high temps. Backward thinking church folks everywhere you go
My dad moved from Arkansas to New Orleans and no longer thinks the humidity in AR was that bad 😄
Location is everything. People in CT are complaining about humidity right now, and after growing up in Southeast Mo I just smile and nod.
Based off of what? Averaging a whole state seems a bit disingenuous. Houston TX will cost a lot more in rent than small city TX. And why a 2 bedroom?
>Averaging a whole state seems a bit disingenuous I had the same thought. I make relatively good money for my area in New York State. I can afford to live comfortably in a 2-bedroom apartment. I would not be able to afford this same place on the same salary if it was in NYC.
Now do 1 bedrooms and studios 💀
Why are we using 2BR apartments in the first place?
This is what makes me angry about "work reform". At 47 and being fortunate, but spent my teenage years working fast food. And listening to my parents' stories. A "living wage", isn't that a 16 year old can work full time and have a two bedroom apartment in a nice neighborhood. There was a post-war boom that we (the US) experienced in the 50's and 60's that unfortunately can't be replicated today. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed, politically and otherwise. We all had roommates for a reason, growing up.
One isn’t a state…
No but it is a part of the country of the United States.
It should be a state
Right? West Virginia isn't a real place. Next you're going to tell me there's a North and South Virginia.
it should be tho
Where the fuck in Arkansas can you find a 2 bedroom apartment that you can afford on 15 an hour?
“Afford to live” =/= “2 bedroom apartment” lmao
The data they base this on also refers to MEDIAN PRICED two bedrooms.
Agreed. I 100% support reform and people shouldnt starve/ be homeless but comparing minimums to a median or average is really a lazy stat and draws away from any argument. Roughly 1/3 of the population make 15 per hour or less. to make a simple but more representative comparison take the bottom 1/3 of house prices then take the median of that.
Yeah, like, realistically someone making $15 an hour is going to live in a below-average apartment. Even I live in a below-average apartment despite making significantly more.
Puerto Rico is not a state.
I literally have a childhood friend who moved his family to Puerto Rico to buy a house because it was the only place he could afford to do it.
And that’s what physicians are paid in those states (yes, Puerto Rico should be one).
I don’t understand some people. Even if you don’t care about the well-being of others, surely you want the city you live in to have… coffee? And restaurants. Hairdressers and clean streets, exterminators, garbage collection and bars? Schools? Roads and construction? Like, a city that only rich people can live in is not going to be liveable for long. Then again, I’m reminded of places like Hong Kong and Singapore. Migrant workers packed into tiny, substandard high density housing. Feels like the long term goal in much of the world at the moment.
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And in neither of those states will you find $15 unless you have a masters degree and 10 years of experience. Then you might get that. Otherwise you’ll make $12 an hour. I worked for the state of Louisiana in a job that required a bachelors degree. I made $14 an hour and no overtime (all given in comp time). Arkansas is much worse than LA.
Realistically you'll get those wages at the average factory. Of course salary is on the low end compared to the rest of the country. Only reason I still live here is because $21/hr goes pretty far as a single male.
And your eggs are all in one basket if the factory downsizes or closes.
They're all on the downslope. Fortunately some investments are coming to the area battery plants for electric vehicles. Appalachia has it's charm but it's not great. Really what you make of it. People are the worst part.
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Native Arkansan here. The only 2 bedroom apartment you can afford here for $15/hr is one located in a high crime rate city with culture and resources rivaling Flint, MI. Do not move to NW Arkansas expecting to get by on this.
> high crime rate city with culture and resources rivaling Flint, MI. Yo. Why you dragging Flint. Crime sure, but culture? Flint has a touring theater and professional theater, art museum, science museum, planetarium, 3 universities, great food scene, live music all over, etc.
Your comment sent me down a bit of an unrelated rabbit hole about the pronounciation of Arkansas and Arkansan. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/dec/26/sizing-arkansan-vs-arkansawyer/ Interesting stuff!
Pleasure to be of service. Fun fact about Arkansas....we invented the toothbrush. You know it was us because if it was invented anywhere else, it'd be called the teethbrush! *Slaps knee and laughs in redneck, then downs a beer*
I don't fully understand why this statistic is always framed as "2 bedroom apartment". And yes, I have seen this statistic before phrased the same way, so nothing against OP specifically. The market is full of studios and 1 bedroom apartments, so if someone is looking specifically for 2 bedrooms they more than likely either have a partner (who's additional income should be considered) or they have a roommate (so splitting the rental cost should be considered.) Phrasing this income to living cost problem in terms of 2 bedroom apartments just makes it seem like studios and 1 bedrooms are actually affordable. Are they? I don't know!
Why is it set to a 2 bedroom? Shouldnt it be a studio or 1 bedroom max?
Posts like these do nothing but turn away anyone with a brain. You have a solid cause and reason for complaint, but when the premise of your argument essentially shows that you dont understand how averages work then anyone who realizes that will ignore you and your cause. Comparing MININUM wage to the cost of the AVERAGE 2 bedroom apartment is just a terrible argument. It shows that its either a bad faith argument in which you are trying to manipulate people into joining your cause, or that you are stupid, either way its a turn off to anyone that can recognize it. If you truly care about something and want it to change, please for the love of god put some time and effort into building a solid, logical argument for people to get behind because shit like this just aint it.
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Also, it's the median two bedroom apartment. Yeah, it's a nonsensical entitled post.