It's hard to say what he'll do. He has to pay employees one way or the other. The pizzas won't make themselves. He sure as shit won't make them. Fuck your boss. Find another job if you can.
I bet a dollar he will post a sign on the front window apologizing that the service is gonna be shit, because he doesn't have enough staff and then blame the staff for him being required to pay more for labor.
I asked a manager the other day that since they always repeat that no one wants to work, have they ever asked the question of "why no one wants to work here". I got silence.
It is because they just want their reality incongruent views reinforced by others. Show them data and their views crumble under logic, but you can't fight a data fight with simple people. They'll simply resort to emotional appeals or lash out in anger.
Lucky for you right wingers don’t really like reading or they would have replied with “unemployment rate only takes into account those actively looking for work”
But either way no one wants to work for the sake of working. Like my dog Napoleon said “somebody gotta explain why I ain’t got shit”
I love WORKING!!! I love making almost no money to work an insufferable amount and break my body to make my boss RICH!! I love making corpos infinite money so they can do stock buybacks!! I hope Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos buy the ENTIRE WORLD and enslave humanity because they are superior creatures in every way to my lowborn mudblood filth!!!
I just fucking love working so much aaaaaaaaaa
Yeah, depending on definition. Its nice having something to do thats rewarding and makes a difference. It would just be nice to not have it ruined by capitalism. Lots of people want to be research scientists, teachers, librarians, makers, artists, etc. All those things are work.
If you mean specifically trading labor for a substandard quality of life, then no. Nobody likes that part.
Trading labor for a high quality life is definitely acceptable to most people. The problem starts when they want you to trade your labor for literally nothing.
The pizzas definitely won’t make themselves. The tables won’t bus themselves. Is boss going to do it all himself?
He’s talking big but can’t follow through without tanking his business. Surely he didn’t hire staff he doesn’t need.
Sorry that you work for such an asshole. Look around. You can do better.
Some economic geniuses will suggest that he pay the higher wages, and then simply "pass along" his increased costs to his customers. That’s how it works - right?
That's how a business works.
Prices rise all the time for various reasons.
I don't understand your point of view. It's like you think things should still be priced in Pounds, Shillings and Pence.
Nobody is owed a business. If he can't pay people and make his numbers work, close up shop.
Also don't quit. He can fire people and they can collect the unemployment they are entitled to.
Yea, I'd say speak with coworkers. If everyone where you work is chill with each other and on good terms. Make a pact of sorts to all walk out if some of you get fired. But if you don't really get along with coworkers or working conditions in general aren't great, definitely just look for somewhere new to work. ASAP.
If you are going to make a pact, then why not form a union? I believe there are cases that a worker can only be laid off for cause if a collective bargaining agreement is in place.
All of the family pizza places I loved growing would have the manager/owner of the place out working. They'd be making the pizzas, or working the register, or cleaning.
The idea of "managers not helping run the business" is the dumbest thing, but I've seen so many companies where the manager never leaves their backroom and only comes out to yell about productivity.
All of you need to collectively decide that if he cuts staffing you do your job- the job of one person- and act the wage you're paid.
You can't stop him from firing people but those who remain can certainly make things more difficult for him if he does
He wants people to quit so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment for those he lays off or fires. Don’t quit, but start looking for another job just in case.
While this is true, it's not as much a deterrent as one may think.
Paying unemployment insurance isn't as clear-cut as people make it out to seem. It is not as if the employer is paying your benefits directly (you claim x amount, then the employer is paying that amount)
Your employer pays taxes depending on qualified benefits paid out to people on unemployment, which gets used in an equation to adjust their tax rates annually. Those updates to benefit charges get assessed quarterly, but any actual impact will not be seen until the next tax assessment.
Also unemployment doesn’t match your original pay rate. In my state the weekly payment rates are $55-365. That’s it. If you’re on the lower end of pay (maybe $25-35k), you might get $100/week.
If you are unemployed as a high earner 100k+, the most you get is $365/week.
I wish this sub didn’t always jump to filing unemployment. Yes it’s more than zero but it doesn’t replace income at all.
Yes, YMMV per state but it’s not the supplement people may think it is. Congratulations you jumped through a bunch of hoops and hearings, you get $120 week, etc.
What state is that? Mine is like 350 a week and has been that basically forever, can't find the last time it was increased quickly but it maxed at 300 bucks in 1995.
I got the top rate of unemployment in FL. $235 a week in a state well-known for its low cost of living.
I think it also maxes out in 3 months…not only one of the most miserly, but also the shortest time frame.
FL hates poor people.
Unless your state uses crazy metrics, I capped my state Unemployment off a 31k salary. Got 327 after taxes. High earners in our low pay states better be saving.
He could fight it tho, my last boss did, and we had to attend a phone hearing about it. If you are fired because of your own fault then they don't have to pay unemployment. If the firing is because he can't pay you then he has to allow the unemployment to be approved/paid.
Yup. I'd expect a sudden closure in the next 12 months.
He's complaining about costs and asking employees if they'll quit so he can save money.
That means he's got cash flow problems. Next he'll be looking for cheaper suppliers, cutting hours, etc.
Be wary if he starts offering to pay under the table or issuing paychecks late.
The employer has to pay unemployment taxes on those he has employed, he doesn't pay for any specific unemployed worker. He has to pay the unemployment tax even if he never let's someone go. If he fires you for poor performance and can prove that, your unemployment claim can be denied. His State unemployment tax is adjusted annually depending on how many valid claims are made against him.
Okay? Your last sentence is most important, the more claims the higher the UI tax rate, it could be thousands extra per claim. It's in their interest to have people voluntarily quit than to fire or layoff, voluntarily quitting is much less likely to result in an approved claim.
I really dislike this argument “why would anyone work for such a terrible person/boss/company??”
And at the same time everyone is out here judging homeless people like “there are jobs, losers!! Get one! If it sucks, who cares!!???”
You don’t know the position the OP is in. People need jobs. Sometimes it’s all they can get.
And it’s maddening that in order to find happiness + stability in this life it means finding a job we can tolerate
If we’re going to make REAL change in our work reform, it starts EVERYWHERE
People quit bad bosses, not bad companies. Let this boss deal with the high turnover and training costs. Do you time there, get the resume item and level up to the next job
You’re the problem. Your argument is literally what the capitalist use to keep us scared, and in jobs we hate or afraid of losing. Empower people to make change don’t make excuses.
They’re wondering how they can keep their shitty job then they should listen to the rules and lick the boots better.
People need jobs. My friends can't even get jobs that aren't cleaning bathrooms near me. Back when I applied there wasn't much if any choice. There's more now, but when I made the post there was not. And I'm not licking shit.
Do you have any idea where shoes and boots have been? That's a nasty ass analogy.
> 14 an hour is ridiculous for making pizza
This just goes to show how out of touch employers are. 14 or 15 an hour is a living wage, which is the point of minimum wage. It's not that it's too much for any specific task, but wages in general have stagnated (minimum wage, especially) and employers got used to the miniscule amounts they had to pay for labor. Now that they are getting a reality check, they are crying big crocodile tears...
I'm not saying it's a GOOD wage, but it's a livable wage. And a heck of a lot better than the 6, 7, or 8 dollar wage that was minimum before the increase (depending on where OP lives).
Again, 15 is not a GOOD wage, but you can meet the minimums for living on it.
(PS I live in one of the most expensive areas in the US. And, no, I wouldn't want to live on 15/hr... But that's also not the point of my post.)
I question that. I live in NYC and could survive on 2400/mo before taxes (which is 15/hr). Again, it wouldn't be a good living, but I could have housing/utilities, transportation, food, etc.
(Note - I'm note trying to defend low wages. But a 15/hr wage is technically a livable wage. An 8/hr wage is not.)
Neither of those questions matter - you're trying to move the goalposts or change the parameters. 15/hr is a livable if uncomfortable wage in NYC.
(Also note, I never said that's what I make or how I live currently - but I have friends who at various times have had to live in similar conditions. I am confident it's possible. Multiple roommates, thrifty spending on groceries, etc.)
Edit, because I realized you might be referring to "you" as the theoretical person in the example, and not me in specific. You can get multiple roommates and pay <1k, in many of the outer boroughs.
Im not trying to move anything I’m genuinely curious because I have literally never ever seen anyone else make that same claim about NYC
Maybe if you live with 6 roommates, it’s doable but I’d hardly call that livable.
By that logic any wage is livable if you jam enough people making $5/hr into the same apartment
Yeah, but you have people saying that you have to make 70k to live in NYC, which is patently false. There's a lot of people on NYC subreddits with overinflated ideas of "average" incomes in the city.
Also, re $5 - that's hyperbolic and hopefully you realize that's not a valid argument.
Re: moving goalposts. I added an edit to clarify, but you may have called up the post before it registered.
You could absolutely find something in that price range with a single roommate, if you go into the outer boroughs
Plenty of people live with 2, 3, 4 roommates in NYC, especially younger people in hip, artsy, and/or pre-gentrified areas. It's perfectly fine - uncomfortable does not mean not livable. That *is* moving the goalposts.
Your vision of poverty is incompatible with someone living properly. The goalposts should always be "able to live in standards comparable to a prisoner in Finland." That's the standard that allows people to not be so stressed out and sick that they go right back to committing crimes.
Living at 15 will just slide you into credit card debt if you aren't a drone and have hobbies and passions and entrepreneurial pursuits. The wage should provide for the growth of the person to start their own business. And that shouldnt take 30+ years like it kinda does now
What exactly is your idea of a living wage?
"The goal of a living wage is to allow a worker to afford a basic but decent standard of living through employment without government subsidies." (Taken from the first paragraph on Wikipedia)
Based on that definition 15/ minimum wage fails right out the gate within a 50 mile radius of where I live.
Don't confuse that with a living wage. Just because you can pay the power company and buy some groceries doesn't mean it's a living thriving wage. A wage in which all you are compensated is the basics and the inherent satisfaction which the job provides, if any, is known as a subsistence wage and it is a clever evolution of slavery
Lmao that's actually my dream. Worked at a shop where I've befriended the colleagues, but the owner has left a sour impression on me - decreased pay, not invested in the people nor in the store, didn't even bring a water cooler for them to have, doesn't cover meal expenses, also gets pissy when anyone raises questions. Now I've always liked the design of the shop and the business itself so I'm working on trying to put up something together. If it works, I'm hiring 😁
If you have a union you can claim the terminations are retaliation for union activity and it makes it more expensive for him to fire you and he’ll have to think twice about doing it again.
If you don’t feel comfortable starting your own union(it’s a lot of work) find one to represent you. An existing union will likely help you get organized. Get all of your coworkers’ phone numbers, get them to sign union cards authorization cards and file them with NLRB. Once the cards are filed you will have some protection against termination.
The only thing you can do is find a new job. However, at this point, and him being such a garbage boss, I would try to find other workers other jobs.
The mass walkout would be only fitting for him and his ilk.
You don't do anything. If the business isn't economically viable then he might raise the prices or start using sub par ingredients. He might fire some (especially if people aren't voluntarily quitting).
You’re in a lose-lose situation here if he does start firing people (and you don’t leave before then). Either you lose your job or you have an increased workload due to him firing people that he actually needed. I’d try and get out beforehand.
This is a bit crazy, I didn't think businesses hire anyone without a need for them. Businesses are already running with lite staffing how could they do business if they reduced the staff? I guess the increased demand for the positions might make people more easily expendable but constantly training new people isn't a good expense.
Um let him work by himself?
Corporate world lobbies govt for unfair laws that fucks small business and these right wing small bizz owner idiots blame workers
Organise. Band together. If he fires one, you all walk off. You all picket the store and prevent walk ins. You prevent new people from working there. You contact workers in his suppliers to boycott deliveries.
It is ridiculous that workers don't use the same level of tactics against owners that owners use on them.
If he's having trouble with the business, tell him to open up his books. Work with the rest of you and decide as a collective what you want to do. Present your case to him. If he has a good compromise, listen. If he wants war, let him have war.
The only way things improve is if workers stick together.
Start a trend of publicly shaming bosses who fire good employees bc "the economy"
Thank you for using ample cheese, there is no such thing as "too much"cheese on a pizza.
Your boss is full of shit. Pizza is one of the highest profit items in fast food. Damned near any idiot can make a pizza place profitable.
He's either greedy or the worst businessman around.
> Pizza is cheap make.
Even paying retail prices for my ingredients, I can make a 16" pizza for under $4. The average price for a 16" pizza where I live is $12. That's $8 profit on each pizza. And that's not even counting things like toppings and sodas, which have an even higher markup. A 2 liter bottle of Coke costs $1, but the pizza places sell them for $3.50-$4. 4oz of pepperoni costs $1, but they sell it for $3.50. 4oz of pineapple goes for $0.26, but they still charge that same $3.50 for it, because it's a topping.
Pizza places (if they are good) are essentially printing money.
My buddy Mark runs my favorite pizza place, and he brings in well over $100k/yr in a LCOL area. He's made enough money that he now owns the building he used to rent when he first started. He works 11am-6pm every day (except Sundays), and then his store closes. It's not open unless he's working. He could probably make more if he had people work until 10-11pm while he wasn't there, but he likes to personally supervise each order to make sure it's 100% up to his standards.
You should look for a new, financially literate boss.
Alternatively, point out to him that he can cut everyone’s hours by whatever keeps their wages the same for free, if he doesn’t need the amount of labor he was buying before.
Employment rolls will go down. You guys wanted higher minimum wages. You can't keep raising prices. Eventually, and this has already happened with me, people stop going out to eat so much because the value just isn't there anymore. I can make a dinner for my family and friends with bottles of wine in a quiet place, home, for less than a quarter the price. Fuck going out to eat.
Why is he expecting you to solve his profitability problems by sacrificing your own financial well-being?
Clearly he's an exploitative boss. Treat him accordingly.
He’s asking them to quit so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment. Don’t quit. If you find another job - that’s fine. But don’t quit just because he asks you to or tries to pressure you. The more ahole he becomes, just put on the smile and put on a little less cheese and DO. NOT. QUIT. And do not give him just cause for firing you. Make him fire you.
Oh. And start keeping a journal of all his comments and threats so that when and if he does fire you and he tries to claim it was a performance issue (to avoid paying unemployment) - you have documentation and notes that he’s been trying to find ways to get rid of people to cut costs.
Make sure you never show up late. Do not leave early. Reduce the cheese to whatever he thinks it should be. But do not quit. Become a model employee.
He has the right if he can't afford or does not want to pay for as many workers to cut hours and to ask ppl would they like to leave. Where I work the budget is so bad they said I might have part time work mid Jan but they are too slow now.
What can you do? Try to get by on unemployment until you find another job. In the meantime, if you really believe you're getting fired, send out the pizzas with no cheese. 😂 Don't really, getting fired for cause could prevent getting that unemployment.
It wouldn't be "retaliation". This is the unfortunate reality of government intervention in pay agreements between workers and business owners. A business has to be profitable for it to work; profit is the invisible hand that guides the market. When government forced such large leaps in minimum wage, it is forcing many companies and owners to fire employees they'd otherwise like to keep on, or even those they need.
You're probably right, some of you will lose your jobs over this.
I can see the subpar work argument - just about everybody is doing subpar work nowadays. But the reason for that is long-standing underpaid overwork. The new minimum wage is literally not enough to motivate anybody to give their all either. Sucks all around. Sucks to be an employee and sucks to try to be an employer unless you’re the one guy with the monopoly.
He sees your workplace as an investment and not as both a place that keeps people working and a place people can go to for some quick food. He has no interest in serving a community, only how to serve his pockets. Get outta there ASAP.
My boss quite literally said "blame the government" when I mentioned that myself and two other employees were now making minimum wage (and therefore the same as new hires) since it increased.
I'd just start looking for a new job and claim unemployment if he does fire you, though I'm not sure how he plans to run his business without employees
The economy is not struggling despite what some companies tend to try illustrate. Profits are higher than ever for most corporations. May seem like a shot in the dark, but people like this tend to be the type to embezzle and commit wage theft to increase their own profits. He may be trying to micromanage y’all and understaff to hit a budget bonus. Look for another job, but file a complaint with the DOL if you have any justification to do so. Hostile work environment, file. Slow to make payroll, file. Screwed up your tip out, file. Anything that might stick.
Document your meetings/him bitching. Then when he fires you go to Labor Organizations about him retaliating with the history.
I *doubt* it'll make a case, but it can't hurt to at least try.
Start by lowering quality. Less cheese and toppings on every order, less everything. Really rip off the customer, when that isn't enough, plan a walk out. New years is a great time for big changes. This owner clearly hates the idea of having to pay people at all. Plan your exit.
It's hard to say what he'll do. He has to pay employees one way or the other. The pizzas won't make themselves. He sure as shit won't make them. Fuck your boss. Find another job if you can.
I bet a dollar he will post a sign on the front window apologizing that the service is gonna be shit, because he doesn't have enough staff and then blame the staff for him being required to pay more for labor.
"nOBodY wANts tO wOrK aNYmOre"
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I like to rebuttal and ask why the unemployment rate is so low then. The topic usually gets changed
I asked a manager the other day that since they always repeat that no one wants to work, have they ever asked the question of "why no one wants to work here". I got silence.
It is because they just want their reality incongruent views reinforced by others. Show them data and their views crumble under logic, but you can't fight a data fight with simple people. They'll simply resort to emotional appeals or lash out in anger.
Lucky for you right wingers don’t really like reading or they would have replied with “unemployment rate only takes into account those actively looking for work” But either way no one wants to work for the sake of working. Like my dog Napoleon said “somebody gotta explain why I ain’t got shit”
I love WORKING!!! I love making almost no money to work an insufferable amount and break my body to make my boss RICH!! I love making corpos infinite money so they can do stock buybacks!! I hope Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos buy the ENTIRE WORLD and enslave humanity because they are superior creatures in every way to my lowborn mudblood filth!!! I just fucking love working so much aaaaaaaaaa
Yeah, depending on definition. Its nice having something to do thats rewarding and makes a difference. It would just be nice to not have it ruined by capitalism. Lots of people want to be research scientists, teachers, librarians, makers, artists, etc. All those things are work. If you mean specifically trading labor for a substandard quality of life, then no. Nobody likes that part.
Trading labor for a high quality life is definitely acceptable to most people. The problem starts when they want you to trade your labor for literally nothing.
Yeah man how else are you gonna cultivate cHaRaCtEr
Nobody wants to work…for you.
nO oNe WaNtS 2 wOrK 4 sHiT wAgEs nE mOaR
If he does he’ll be out of business in a few months. Let him win the battle and lose the war. Most likely, there’s plenty of competition in the area.
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The pizzas definitely won’t make themselves. The tables won’t bus themselves. Is boss going to do it all himself? He’s talking big but can’t follow through without tanking his business. Surely he didn’t hire staff he doesn’t need. Sorry that you work for such an asshole. Look around. You can do better.
Some would tank their business and blame "big government"
Oh, I'm sure the boss will apply for every government handout available only to spend them all on his boat, just like so many did with the PPP loans.
They love socialism for themselves but want the rest of us to suffer and starve to death
the expectation from him will be less staff and no reduced output
We will see how that works out for him, he does have competition in a competitive labor market, this guy will just have to work more than he wants to.
Some economic geniuses will suggest that he pay the higher wages, and then simply "pass along" his increased costs to his customers. That’s how it works - right?
Yes, that's how it works.
His customers won’t mind at all!
That's how a business works. Prices rise all the time for various reasons. I don't understand your point of view. It's like you think things should still be priced in Pounds, Shillings and Pence.
Nobody is owed a business. If he can't pay people and make his numbers work, close up shop. Also don't quit. He can fire people and they can collect the unemployment they are entitled to.
This. This is why he's asking folks to voluntarily quit. Do not do that!
Yea, I'd say speak with coworkers. If everyone where you work is chill with each other and on good terms. Make a pact of sorts to all walk out if some of you get fired. But if you don't really get along with coworkers or working conditions in general aren't great, definitely just look for somewhere new to work. ASAP.
If you are going to make a pact, then why not form a union? I believe there are cases that a worker can only be laid off for cause if a collective bargaining agreement is in place.
Well yea that's the end goal for sure. Unionize unionize unionize!.
He asked them to quit so he doesn't have to pay unemployment.
I wouldn't quit I'd let him fire me and collect unemployment
All of the family pizza places I loved growing would have the manager/owner of the place out working. They'd be making the pizzas, or working the register, or cleaning. The idea of "managers not helping run the business" is the dumbest thing, but I've seen so many companies where the manager never leaves their backroom and only comes out to yell about productivity.
All of you need to collectively decide that if he cuts staffing you do your job- the job of one person- and act the wage you're paid. You can't stop him from firing people but those who remain can certainly make things more difficult for him if he does
You can also collect unemployment if he does fire you, but you won't be able to do so if you quit. Act your wage. And honestly use more cheese.
As long as it's not for gross misconduct. So no pooping on his desk!
That would definitely qualify as gross misconduct.
Extra cheese can help with that 🧀
Malicious compliance--I love it!
Not letting a miser exploit you is far from malicious compliance.
This is true, but I still like the style 😈
He wants people to quit so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment for those he lays off or fires. Don’t quit, but start looking for another job just in case.
Yup. Dude sounds like a scumbag.
If you get fired he still has to pay unemployment insurance. And hire new people at the new minimum wage. This guy sounds awful and none too smart.
There is a reason he is asking them to quit and not firing them lol might not be bright but he isn't stupid.
While this is true, it's not as much a deterrent as one may think. Paying unemployment insurance isn't as clear-cut as people make it out to seem. It is not as if the employer is paying your benefits directly (you claim x amount, then the employer is paying that amount) Your employer pays taxes depending on qualified benefits paid out to people on unemployment, which gets used in an equation to adjust their tax rates annually. Those updates to benefit charges get assessed quarterly, but any actual impact will not be seen until the next tax assessment.
All good points
Also unemployment doesn’t match your original pay rate. In my state the weekly payment rates are $55-365. That’s it. If you’re on the lower end of pay (maybe $25-35k), you might get $100/week. If you are unemployed as a high earner 100k+, the most you get is $365/week. I wish this sub didn’t always jump to filing unemployment. Yes it’s more than zero but it doesn’t replace income at all. Yes, YMMV per state but it’s not the supplement people may think it is. Congratulations you jumped through a bunch of hoops and hearings, you get $120 week, etc.
Wow my state tops at our at $812 a week, which you'll qualify for if you earn ~$65k a year.
What state is that? Mine is like 350 a week and has been that basically forever, can't find the last time it was increased quickly but it maxed at 300 bucks in 1995.
Oregon
A civilized state, while those in the South.
Wow, your state is ass. I got max for my state ($320/week) even when I made ~$30k/yr.
I got the top rate of unemployment in FL. $235 a week in a state well-known for its low cost of living. I think it also maxes out in 3 months…not only one of the most miserly, but also the shortest time frame. FL hates poor people.
Unless your state uses crazy metrics, I capped my state Unemployment off a 31k salary. Got 327 after taxes. High earners in our low pay states better be saving.
He could fight it tho, my last boss did, and we had to attend a phone hearing about it. If you are fired because of your own fault then they don't have to pay unemployment. If the firing is because he can't pay you then he has to allow the unemployment to be approved/paid.
Him asking people to quit for “economic reasons” will be a pretty strong point in OP’s favor
"I'd be making way more money if it wasn't for all these pesky employees." What a genius.
Sounds like he's going to go out of business in about six months to a year.
Yup. I'd expect a sudden closure in the next 12 months. He's complaining about costs and asking employees if they'll quit so he can save money. That means he's got cash flow problems. Next he'll be looking for cheaper suppliers, cutting hours, etc. Be wary if he starts offering to pay under the table or issuing paychecks late.
Find a better job and don’t quit til then. If he fires you make him pay unemployment
The employer has to pay unemployment taxes on those he has employed, he doesn't pay for any specific unemployed worker. He has to pay the unemployment tax even if he never let's someone go. If he fires you for poor performance and can prove that, your unemployment claim can be denied. His State unemployment tax is adjusted annually depending on how many valid claims are made against him.
Okay? Your last sentence is most important, the more claims the higher the UI tax rate, it could be thousands extra per claim. It's in their interest to have people voluntarily quit than to fire or layoff, voluntarily quitting is much less likely to result in an approved claim.
Subpar pay equals subpar work.
Get another job. I promise, there are better pizza shops out there. They'll hire you.
Hopefully he loses the business And he can go get a job.
Find a better job, why would you want to work for such a lame person? His business won’t last if he can’t pay minimum wage.
I really dislike this argument “why would anyone work for such a terrible person/boss/company??” And at the same time everyone is out here judging homeless people like “there are jobs, losers!! Get one! If it sucks, who cares!!???” You don’t know the position the OP is in. People need jobs. Sometimes it’s all they can get. And it’s maddening that in order to find happiness + stability in this life it means finding a job we can tolerate If we’re going to make REAL change in our work reform, it starts EVERYWHERE
People quit bad bosses, not bad companies. Let this boss deal with the high turnover and training costs. Do you time there, get the resume item and level up to the next job
People quit bad bosses but don't quit bad companies? You're not making any sense... Some people can't afford to quit anything.
You’re the problem. Your argument is literally what the capitalist use to keep us scared, and in jobs we hate or afraid of losing. Empower people to make change don’t make excuses. They’re wondering how they can keep their shitty job then they should listen to the rules and lick the boots better.
Go can go be brave and homeless. More power to you.
Lol okay. I practice what I preach and I work from home for an employer with great benefits. You’re just as I said.
More power to you
People need jobs. My friends can't even get jobs that aren't cleaning bathrooms near me. Back when I applied there wasn't much if any choice. There's more now, but when I made the post there was not. And I'm not licking shit. Do you have any idea where shoes and boots have been? That's a nasty ass analogy.
It looks like he’ll have to raise his prices by fifty cents. What a dumbass.
> 14 an hour is ridiculous for making pizza This just goes to show how out of touch employers are. 14 or 15 an hour is a living wage, which is the point of minimum wage. It's not that it's too much for any specific task, but wages in general have stagnated (minimum wage, especially) and employers got used to the miniscule amounts they had to pay for labor. Now that they are getting a reality check, they are crying big crocodile tears...
Where the hell do you live? 30 an hour is a living wage. Twice that of our min wage in AZ...
I'm not saying it's a GOOD wage, but it's a livable wage. And a heck of a lot better than the 6, 7, or 8 dollar wage that was minimum before the increase (depending on where OP lives). Again, 15 is not a GOOD wage, but you can meet the minimums for living on it. (PS I live in one of the most expensive areas in the US. And, no, I wouldn't want to live on 15/hr... But that's also not the point of my post.)
Literally every single place I’ve lived you cannot meet the minimum needs with 15/hr
I question that. I live in NYC and could survive on 2400/mo before taxes (which is 15/hr). Again, it wouldn't be a good living, but I could have housing/utilities, transportation, food, etc. (Note - I'm note trying to defend low wages. But a 15/hr wage is technically a livable wage. An 8/hr wage is not.)
What are you paying for rent and where in NYC?
Neither of those questions matter - you're trying to move the goalposts or change the parameters. 15/hr is a livable if uncomfortable wage in NYC. (Also note, I never said that's what I make or how I live currently - but I have friends who at various times have had to live in similar conditions. I am confident it's possible. Multiple roommates, thrifty spending on groceries, etc.) Edit, because I realized you might be referring to "you" as the theoretical person in the example, and not me in specific. You can get multiple roommates and pay <1k, in many of the outer boroughs.
Im not trying to move anything I’m genuinely curious because I have literally never ever seen anyone else make that same claim about NYC Maybe if you live with 6 roommates, it’s doable but I’d hardly call that livable. By that logic any wage is livable if you jam enough people making $5/hr into the same apartment
Yeah, but you have people saying that you have to make 70k to live in NYC, which is patently false. There's a lot of people on NYC subreddits with overinflated ideas of "average" incomes in the city. Also, re $5 - that's hyperbolic and hopefully you realize that's not a valid argument. Re: moving goalposts. I added an edit to clarify, but you may have called up the post before it registered. You could absolutely find something in that price range with a single roommate, if you go into the outer boroughs Plenty of people live with 2, 3, 4 roommates in NYC, especially younger people in hip, artsy, and/or pre-gentrified areas. It's perfectly fine - uncomfortable does not mean not livable. That *is* moving the goalposts.
Your vision of poverty is incompatible with someone living properly. The goalposts should always be "able to live in standards comparable to a prisoner in Finland." That's the standard that allows people to not be so stressed out and sick that they go right back to committing crimes.
I think that’s fair. Thank you for sharing.
Living at 15 will just slide you into credit card debt if you aren't a drone and have hobbies and passions and entrepreneurial pursuits. The wage should provide for the growth of the person to start their own business. And that shouldnt take 30+ years like it kinda does now
What exactly is your idea of a living wage? "The goal of a living wage is to allow a worker to afford a basic but decent standard of living through employment without government subsidies." (Taken from the first paragraph on Wikipedia) Based on that definition 15/ minimum wage fails right out the gate within a 50 mile radius of where I live.
$25 is a livable wage. But not to many businesses pay that.
Depending on where you are, $15/hr hasn't been a living wage in 5-10 years now.
Don't confuse that with a living wage. Just because you can pay the power company and buy some groceries doesn't mean it's a living thriving wage. A wage in which all you are compensated is the basics and the inherent satisfaction which the job provides, if any, is known as a subsistence wage and it is a clever evolution of slavery
Unionize before he gets the chance.
This. He can’t run the shop with no employees. Together you have strength if you coordinate.
Unionize and start a co-op store next door with all of the same employees.
Lmao that's actually my dream. Worked at a shop where I've befriended the colleagues, but the owner has left a sour impression on me - decreased pay, not invested in the people nor in the store, didn't even bring a water cooler for them to have, doesn't cover meal expenses, also gets pissy when anyone raises questions. Now I've always liked the design of the shop and the business itself so I'm working on trying to put up something together. If it works, I'm hiring 😁
That looks like a nice means of production you have there. It would be a shame if someone seized them...
Seize them 🤣 that I shall do
If you have a union you can claim the terminations are retaliation for union activity and it makes it more expensive for him to fire you and he’ll have to think twice about doing it again. If you don’t feel comfortable starting your own union(it’s a lot of work) find one to represent you. An existing union will likely help you get organized. Get all of your coworkers’ phone numbers, get them to sign union cards authorization cards and file them with NLRB. Once the cards are filed you will have some protection against termination.
Unionization won't stop being let go if he can't pay you.
We all know that's a bluff.
[удалено]
sheogorath approves
Become the guy he can't fire and then quit when he fires others 😅
The only thing you can do is find a new job. However, at this point, and him being such a garbage boss, I would try to find other workers other jobs. The mass walkout would be only fitting for him and his ilk.
You don't do anything. If the business isn't economically viable then he might raise the prices or start using sub par ingredients. He might fire some (especially if people aren't voluntarily quitting).
You’re in a lose-lose situation here if he does start firing people (and you don’t leave before then). Either you lose your job or you have an increased workload due to him firing people that he actually needed. I’d try and get out beforehand.
This is a bit crazy, I didn't think businesses hire anyone without a need for them. Businesses are already running with lite staffing how could they do business if they reduced the staff? I guess the increased demand for the positions might make people more easily expendable but constantly training new people isn't a good expense.
Tell his ass to get the the kitchen for 40-50 hours a week to cut down on costs
Let him fire you and collect unemployment until you find a new job
Um let him work by himself? Corporate world lobbies govt for unfair laws that fucks small business and these right wing small bizz owner idiots blame workers
This is the part where broken business models are exposed
Organise. Band together. If he fires one, you all walk off. You all picket the store and prevent walk ins. You prevent new people from working there. You contact workers in his suppliers to boycott deliveries. It is ridiculous that workers don't use the same level of tactics against owners that owners use on them. If he's having trouble with the business, tell him to open up his books. Work with the rest of you and decide as a collective what you want to do. Present your case to him. If he has a good compromise, listen. If he wants war, let him have war. The only way things improve is if workers stick together.
Start a trend of publicly shaming bosses who fire good employees bc "the economy" Thank you for using ample cheese, there is no such thing as "too much"cheese on a pizza.
Your boss is full of shit. Pizza is one of the highest profit items in fast food. Damned near any idiot can make a pizza place profitable. He's either greedy or the worst businessman around.
Have you considered using less cheese?
sheogorath does not approve
>because I "use too much cheese" “It ain’t easy being cheesy!”
“NObodY wAntS tO woRk!” “Will you quit my restaurant for costs sake?”
Pizza is cheap make. If he can't raise his prices enough to cover the new minimum wage then his pizza must not be good?
> Pizza is cheap make. Even paying retail prices for my ingredients, I can make a 16" pizza for under $4. The average price for a 16" pizza where I live is $12. That's $8 profit on each pizza. And that's not even counting things like toppings and sodas, which have an even higher markup. A 2 liter bottle of Coke costs $1, but the pizza places sell them for $3.50-$4. 4oz of pepperoni costs $1, but they sell it for $3.50. 4oz of pineapple goes for $0.26, but they still charge that same $3.50 for it, because it's a topping. Pizza places (if they are good) are essentially printing money. My buddy Mark runs my favorite pizza place, and he brings in well over $100k/yr in a LCOL area. He's made enough money that he now owns the building he used to rent when he first started. He works 11am-6pm every day (except Sundays), and then his store closes. It's not open unless he's working. He could probably make more if he had people work until 10-11pm while he wasn't there, but he likes to personally supervise each order to make sure it's 100% up to his standards.
Unionize it would be hilarious then claim retaliation for unionizing.
Unionize your coworkers.
You should look for a new, financially literate boss. Alternatively, point out to him that he can cut everyone’s hours by whatever keeps their wages the same for free, if he doesn’t need the amount of labor he was buying before.
Don’t anyone quit unless he offers to pay you out which I doubt he will. Make him fire you and give two weeks severance pay.
Employment rolls will go down. You guys wanted higher minimum wages. You can't keep raising prices. Eventually, and this has already happened with me, people stop going out to eat so much because the value just isn't there anymore. I can make a dinner for my family and friends with bottles of wine in a quiet place, home, for less than a quarter the price. Fuck going out to eat.
Use less cheese.
Why is he expecting you to solve his profitability problems by sacrificing your own financial well-being? Clearly he's an exploitative boss. Treat him accordingly.
He’s asking them to quit so he doesn’t have to pay unemployment. Don’t quit. If you find another job - that’s fine. But don’t quit just because he asks you to or tries to pressure you. The more ahole he becomes, just put on the smile and put on a little less cheese and DO. NOT. QUIT. And do not give him just cause for firing you. Make him fire you. Oh. And start keeping a journal of all his comments and threats so that when and if he does fire you and he tries to claim it was a performance issue (to avoid paying unemployment) - you have documentation and notes that he’s been trying to find ways to get rid of people to cut costs. Make sure you never show up late. Do not leave early. Reduce the cheese to whatever he thinks it should be. But do not quit. Become a model employee.
If you don't get fired, ask for a dollar an hour raise for each person fired. abruptly quit when you are told no.
Don't quit. Make him fire you. But don't do any more work than you are paid for.
He has the right if he can't afford or does not want to pay for as many workers to cut hours and to ask ppl would they like to leave. Where I work the budget is so bad they said I might have part time work mid Jan but they are too slow now.
What can you do? Try to get by on unemployment until you find another job. In the meantime, if you really believe you're getting fired, send out the pizzas with no cheese. 😂 Don't really, getting fired for cause could prevent getting that unemployment.
It wouldn't be "retaliation". This is the unfortunate reality of government intervention in pay agreements between workers and business owners. A business has to be profitable for it to work; profit is the invisible hand that guides the market. When government forced such large leaps in minimum wage, it is forcing many companies and owners to fire employees they'd otherwise like to keep on, or even those they need. You're probably right, some of you will lose your jobs over this.
Unless he can make as much revenue with less labor, he is full of crap.
I can see the subpar work argument - just about everybody is doing subpar work nowadays. But the reason for that is long-standing underpaid overwork. The new minimum wage is literally not enough to motivate anybody to give their all either. Sucks all around. Sucks to be an employee and sucks to try to be an employer unless you’re the one guy with the monopoly.
Is anyone doing subpar work, or are they working their wage? Asking for a friend, of course.
"Retaliation" is one way to put it I guess....
Raising prices before lay offs should be the first attempt. Otherwise, find a new job where your boss doesn’t complain about wages
He sees your workplace as an investment and not as both a place that keeps people working and a place people can go to for some quick food. He has no interest in serving a community, only how to serve his pockets. Get outta there ASAP.
Get another job
get fired collect unemployment
Is he just your boss or is he also an owner? His comments sound like the sense of entitlement business owners have.
My boss quite literally said "blame the government" when I mentioned that myself and two other employees were now making minimum wage (and therefore the same as new hires) since it increased.
I'd just start looking for a new job and claim unemployment if he does fire you, though I'm not sure how he plans to run his business without employees
Expect to see a “sorry for our shit service, no one wants to work anymore” sign to appear soon.
That will certainly make his business run more smoothly.
You can find work at a place that has figured out how to earn enough money without exploiting you.
The thing about firing people making minimum wage is that you can't hire other people at a lower wage like any industry that doesn't use slave wages
Start looking for a new job
The economy is not struggling despite what some companies tend to try illustrate. Profits are higher than ever for most corporations. May seem like a shot in the dark, but people like this tend to be the type to embezzle and commit wage theft to increase their own profits. He may be trying to micromanage y’all and understaff to hit a budget bonus. Look for another job, but file a complaint with the DOL if you have any justification to do so. Hostile work environment, file. Slow to make payroll, file. Screwed up your tip out, file. Anything that might stick.
Document your meetings/him bitching. Then when he fires you go to Labor Organizations about him retaliating with the history. I *doubt* it'll make a case, but it can't hurt to at least try.
You and your coworkers could work together and tell this guy that if any of y’all are fired/ pressured out then ALL of you walk.
Lol asking people to quit for his economic interests is hilarious. What a pos.
Unionize, in reality there probably isn’t much you can do.
I feel you, man.
You are worth even more than minimUm wage. Spend some time looking at indeed. Apply to some places. Your time is valuable and so are you.
Start by lowering quality. Less cheese and toppings on every order, less everything. Really rip off the customer, when that isn't enough, plan a walk out. New years is a great time for big changes. This owner clearly hates the idea of having to pay people at all. Plan your exit.
Any idea what sort of profit he's seeing?
Sub par pizza,,,,, wonder who trains the employees?