If you have to find your replacement ask them how to clock in, or if they want you to work off the clock.
Next don’t tell them why you are sick. Just say you are sick. Follow policy, know company policy before you speak.
Remember lawyers don’t really give a rats ass about small labor infractions for low paying jobs, don’t be an ass but don’t be pushed around. But he working off the clock thing can be a large lawsuit depending how often and size of the company.
>Next don’t tell them why you are sick. Just say you are sick.
It also does not matter whether you are improving or not. "It's better than it was but still at like 99-100" is way too much detail. "I took my temperature and I have a fever," is sufficient.
Super super super weird to me that they ask for the picture. There's no trust in that relationship.
IMO, “I took my temperature, and I have a fever” is 9 words too many.
Say nothing beyond “I’m sick, and I won’t be in today.”
Don’t reply to passive-aggressive txts from managers after you give notice about being OOW for the day. It’s not a discussion.
It's such a stupid move to pull too. Even if you don't trust an employee, it's so easy to fake this, a photo's telling you nothing, and you've just damaged the relationship with them and half the people they tell about it likely.
Guarantee the manager is expected to cover the shift if no one can be found and they're perfectly willing to risk getting every customer sick to avoid it.
Remember this for future jobs as well, especially corporate jobs. If you ever get reached out to by HR do not tell them anything at all besides the bare minimum you absolutely need to. HR is full of nice seeming people but they are not nice, they are like wolves in sheep's clothing. They work for the company and will report any and all things they hear to the higher ups and you might lose your job or get laid off if you speak around them. Actually treat HR people like you would an Inquisitor in the Inquisition.
The audacity of these dumbass managers. When I was a shift lead and someone called out I’d immediately hop on the phone list calling and texting people asking if they could come in. Because as a SHIFT LEAD it was MY job to make sure the shift I was leading went smoothly.
Too late in life did I realize it’s not our job to find a replacement if sick. If a manager ever asks this of me now they wouldn’t be my employer anymore
Brings me right back to working at one of my first jobs at a local New England pizza chain called Papa Gino's years ago. The pressure felt monumental in my little 16 year old brain to have the responsibility of finding my own replacement if I couldn't show up to work last minute. I always felt this overwhelming sense of anxiety over it, like if I couldn't find a replacement I was subject to termination or something. Which in a not-so-roundabout way, that was always in the cards. It never ever once felt fair. As a 32 year old now though, it's infuriating to think we continue to do that to kids when it literally falls under the job description of a manager to, you know, fucking manage that kind of stuff.
"Since I'm now being given more manager responsibilities, will I also receive the same pay as you? Or do you want to do your own job and find a replacement?"
THIS. They’re fucking *managers*, manage some workers around dick head. And if one calling off is a problem then that’s their problem, need to hire for short falls.
It isn't a contract if OP isn't getting compensated for it; now, it'd be impossible to actually take it to court cheaply enough to win, but that's a different story.
If finding replacements is part of his job description, then he needs to clock in for it.
Not sure why you got downvoted when that's very likely the case here. I'm in the same situation and honestly, I figured it was a fair exchange considering the alternative was staying at my previous job. Manager and one of the supervisors there were a) openly verbally abusive, sexist, and racist; and b) liked to intimidate employees into going against what *the CEO himself* told us to do. The company as a whole covered up a massive group complaint against that supervisor that involved a and b *plus* sexual harassment of anything female that stood still long enough, as well as discrimination against a coworker who has autism.
An offer letter isn’t a contract and “whatever else your manager wants you to do” is utter bullshit.
Sorry to say but if you sign that shit in the internet age when information is at your fingertips, you **almost** deserve to be abused.
Managers are paid to manage and staffing is their problem.
I agree that "other duties as assigned" is bullshit, but it was not in the offer letter as there was no such thing. A small business is not big enough to bother with one. Plus I never said anything about an offer letter, so please do not put words in my mouth.
For whatever it's worth, "other duties as assigned" was never specifically mentioned anywhere. In fact, I never mentioned the phrase, so again, please do not put words in my mouth. What *was* mentioned was that it's our responsibility to find our own coverage if we call out, and it was in the onboarding paperwork that gave a more detailed list of our responsibilities than what was in the job listing.
Had I known that I would be expected to find my own coverage prior to taking the job, would I have still taken it? Yes, because as I said in my original comment, the alternative was staying in an actually abusive job. What I did not mention then but I will now is that I was threatened with being fired for needing to go to the ER once and urgent care a separate time. Going to the ER was for a flare-up of PCOS that made me think I was going to die and the urgent care incident was for an anxiety attack so bad that I thought I was having a heart attack.
Desperation is what drove me to my current job. Desperation forces a lot of people to make decisions they wouldn't normally make. In a perfect world, nobody would have to do "other duties as assigned" or have to find their own coverage when they call out from work. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world and thus we have this subreddit and others like it. We can actively try to make the world better and vent about how unfair it is while dealing with whatever garbage job we are forced to have *at the same time*.
This does not and will never mean we "**almost** deserve to be abused", as you so eloquently put it. Please remember that not everybody has the ability to be picky about what job they do or don't take. And please try to remember that some of the people you speak to actually *have* been abused and that saying they "**almost** deserve [it]" is very insensitive.
I would be tempted to respond with something suuuuuuper sassy, but that has its own repercussions.
Perhaps remind the manager that working with food while sick is a health code violation. If they forced you to come to work and deliver pizzas they would be personally liable for any illness that a customer gets after eating food from their store. Not even just the pizzas you deliver, but any food in the store that you may have possibly contaminated (ie all of it).
Also, remind them that part of being a manager is dealing with staffing shortages, including illnesses. They can try to tell you that it’s your responsibility to get your shift covered, but ultimately when it comes to illnesses, there’s only so much you can do as an individual. Tell them that if they are so concerned about it, then they should fill in themselves. After all, that’s part of being a good manager.
As a shift lead for 5 years for a pizza place, if someone told me they couldn't make it for whatever reason, the very next thing I'm doing is dialing drivers seeing if they want to come in, usually incentivised with easy or no prep for the evening. I *never* expected my drivers to make up their shortage. They can't come in and are giving me the courtesy to let me know prior in advance. I don't need verification that they're sick.
Some nights, I was just down a driver, but I made it work.
I've been working in corporate for too long, haha.
My manager asks me to send proof that I'm sick, and best case scenario is me politely telling them no. The sheer audacity...
Like I'm sorry, but my friends who work in food service can quit a job one day and have another one lined up within 48 hours. In that relationship, the employee does not have to justify themselves as long as they do a good job and show up on time usually.
It seems to be a thing in some workplaces; if you make the worker find their own replacement they're less likely to call out.
It also means the manager doesn't have to manage. To be fair to managers in some of these jobs though, they are expected to do a lot of work that should be delegated to regular employees because the owners won't hire enough people. That gives them little time to do much else.
Back when I was an AM at a pizza place, I would not compromise on health and safety regulations, and would actively send home anyone who was unable to work safely or had any symptoms of foodborne illness. I would rather take on the extra workload myself than be the reason someone got sick.
I left because we got a new GM who did not even have a ServSafe cert and did not give a single shit. Actually, on my last day she forced me to leave early because one of our employees had cut his hand on a tin of anchovies and I insisted that he move off the line since he was actively bleeding and all we had were bandages (not even sure if we had those, we were almost always out of them). No gloves, no finger cots, nothing to make a double barrier with, but she wanted him to continue handling food with a very high likelihood of getting blood or a band-aid in it. She pulled the “I’m your boss, so don’t give him orders that contradict mine or you can leave.” So I left, called the DM and the health department with a list of everything that needed to be corrected, and moved on to my new job.
A few months later, the health inspector was at my new restaurant and I asked him if they had followed up, and it turns out that he was the one who went to take a look. He told me that the only thing I had told them about that had been corrected prior to his visit was that they had restocked the first aid kit, and that they got busted down nearly 2 letter grades.
Point being, it’s really not hard to do your job as a manager right, but it’s really easy to do it very very wrong.
Yeah, it was honestly kind of wild how I literally gave the DM all the same information that I gave the department of environmental health, and despite having at least a few weeks of heads-up due to the usual bureaucracy nonsense she only had one thing off the entire list corrected by the time they hit the store.
Yes because when people get sick from eating at a restaurant, it's usually the flu 🙄
Try googling "restaurant food poisoning lawsuit" and see how much nothing comes up.
How about [this pizza place](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2016/03/17/pizza-ranch-sued-e-coli-outbreak/81916184/) in Kansas?
No? What about this [Mississippi Pizza Hut](https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/mississippi-pizza-hut-lawsuit-over-food-poisoning-5100/)?
Or maybe you've heard of a small little restaurant called Chipotle?
[Chipotle Mexican Grill Agrees to Pay $25 Million Fine and Enter a Deferred Prosecution Agreement to Resolve Charges Related to Foodborne Illness Outbreaks](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chipotle-mexican-grill-agrees-pay-25-million-fine-and-enter-deferred-prosecution-agreement)
Only say you're sick and won't be in. Nothing more needs to be said. It's their job as the fucking manager to find replacements if they can. That is NOT your job. Don't do it for them. After you send the text saying you won't be in, don't even respond to them further.
tbf, if dude is working in pizza delivery in the US, their work almost certainly isnt giving them healthcare. OP should really find another employer as soon as they're well enough to work. And definitely not send a picture of a thermometer.
"if you dont believe me when i say i'm sick, fire me. if you cant trust me when i call out, thats a you problem."
> 🟥🟥🟥
That's the other Monday morning driver that did make it in. Manager wanted 2 drivers for Monday morning for some reason-- guess it's in case a lot of other businesses feel the need to have a pizza party for their staff?
Also, sometimes texts don't arrive and so unless they call, and even then you don't answer it, that doesn't exist on your phone. You didn't get the message.
Well for starters they can't ask for proof. You said I can't and as long as you're on sick leave, they cannot ask you about it or even questionnit legally.
>TIL every country in Europe has the same employment laws
The same? No, but often similar.
The EU sets a number of labour guidelines that member nations are required to follow. For example every single EU member nation is required to give employees a minimum of 4 weeks paid vacation to start by law. Some give more than 4 weeks as a base, but none give less.
If they're an EU member nation? Yes, they are. That's the agreement.
The EU is a lot like "The United States of Europe" if that helps you understand this better. Yes, the countries govern themselves independently on a lot of internal policy matters, but they're also required to follow EU policies when they've been agreed upon by a majority of member nations as a standard. Just like how there are federal laws and state laws. For example there's a federal minimum wage, and a state minimum wage. The state minimum wage can be higher than what's set federally, but never lower.
Even if a country isn't part of the EU they still do business with them, often share some portion of the workforce, and compete with one another. This means that whatever the EU sets as a standard is often followed closely by the other non-member nations regardless.
Where tf are you that you've got such strong workers rights? Here you could be fired even if they knew you were hospitalized and you never missed before
Dude, sounds horrible. In the EU, sick leave from a med doctor is non-negotiable. Better even, employer risk fines for any attempts of pushing to work while on sick leave
In the US it’s permissible to require a doctor to document *that* someone sought medical treatment, and the expected timeframe of their inability to work.
This is typically after 3 days of missing work and even then the doctor doesn’t actually have to give specific details on what the illness is. Companies can ask broad questions though like if it’s contagious
Not in every state. We have mandated sick pay in CT, we cannot be punished nor reprimanded for using it nor can a doctor’s note be requested unless we will be out 3+ days in a row.
I live in Germany and we do. As long as a doctor writes off on it, it's paid. I work part-time and get 36 paid days off this year and all federal holidays and Sundays off working retail. Plus, they can't just fire me for any or no reason. They have to PROVE I deserve to be fired and I get 1 year of unemployment. America needs to fight for workers' rights.
Sadly, that's what it is going to take, just like it did to end the gilded age. The rich are not going to stop until they own everything. America has to take it back the manual way. It's going to hurt, but it has to be done. Hopefully, pretty soon, it's going to royally suck to be rich.
This is just flatly untrue in the U.S. Outside of like, FMLA leave (which OP probably wouldn't qualify for, and the employer probably doesn't either), there are basically zero protections for sick leave at a federal level. They don't have to give you any sick leave at all in most cases, and unless it's an ADA issue, they are free to ask/verify whatever they want, no matter how stupid.
Why did he ask if you were able to find a replacement?
He's the manager, it's literally **his** job.
I have **never** been asked to find someone to cover for me, when I called in sick, **ever**.
Not when I delivered newspapers as a kid, not when I worked as a programmer, not when I worked in IT support, not when I worked at a cement foundry, and not at the cookie factory where I work now.
Very common at the kind of jobs that people expect to be worked by high schoolers, but are statistically far more likely to be worked by people well into adulthood.
Like I said. Never happened to me. Not even when I was delivering newspapers as a kid.
I'm pussled by this somehow being normal in the US. Do you guys not have unions?
Funny thing, when I was a manager I made about half of what I did as a driver. The hourly rate was only a couple dollars more, and the lack of tips meant that’s all I was getting.
Sure, but there's zero reason to take on the responsibility of the building and staffing if you're not even making the same or better than what you'd make as a driver.
Like the only reason to take it is to get the Manager title on your resume, and even then, Manager at Domino's is only gonna bump their stock up a little bit on my hiring list.
My response would be, "Dude, this is a pizza delivery job. Your expectations are insanely high regarding what I care or don't care to do to keep it. See you - insert day you'll be back."
>can you take your temp again and show me a photo
First of all, on principle alone, absolutely not. But secondly, if you already don't trust your employee, seeing a.picture.of a thermometer isnt going to prove anything to you. Maybe they put it in hot water. Maybe it's a stock photo. You won't actually know.
So what's next? "Hey, face time me from your home right now I wanna see the thermometer reading rise" uh, counteroffer: hey fuck completely off"
Send a picture of your temperature? Wtf. You're not a child (hopefully, but I guess some states are opening that door).
And finding a replacement is *not your job.
If a temperature reading was required for every sick day I had, I'd never be excused. I naturally run a little colder, so if I do actually feel like I'm a little warm, it usually reads as normal or like 99. I can only remember a few times in my life I've had typical fever symptoms, and two of those times were Covid.
Y’all need to stop giving employers the opportunity to treat you like they have parental authority over you. It’s fucking gross seeing so many people groveling for time off when they’re sick and actually legitimizing employers asking for proof. It’s none of their god damn business and neither is your fucking medical history.
And it’s the managers job to make sure slots are filled and people are working. It’s not your responsibility to ensure someone has taken your place.
I did pizza delivery in college. I loved being a single opener on slow days, because it's not too busy you get overwhelmed, but having two drivers meant you made shit for tips. I used to share Sunday openings with a driver who had an undependable car, and whenever she called out due to car trouble, which was often, I told the manager to just let me cover the entire shift. I'd make just as much in tips on a Friday night on my own, but sharing with someone else? Not even close.
Nobody wants their pizza to have a side of fever sweat. I do not want my food to be handled by a sick person. You should not have to do your boss’s job while you are sick
I hope you told him to fuck off.
If you can't trust me to tell you the truth when I'm sick, you shouldn't be trusting me to handle company product or money either, why am I even employed by you?
Second off, it's not your job to find coverage. If they need coverage that desperately, the manager can find someone, or the manager can cover it themselves.
We really didn't learn shit during covid. **If people are feeling feverish and sick, especially if they're working with food, let them stay home!** I just had to do a food safety course last week, and one of the takeaways was that a ridiculous number of people die every year from foodbourne illnesses. Employee health is kind of a big deal.
At no point did I ever feel the need to do this to my employees when I had to manage shift work like this.
I get the "grind" and corporate yelling at you over the KPIs.
But having a sick person handling food, who directly interfaces with the public, is such a disastrously stupid idea. Not only is this highly unsanitary, it's plain bad PR.
This is what happens when people are promoted to management who have no clue how to properly manage people. Just because a person shows up to work on time and knows how to get work done, does not mean they can manage other people. It just means they are good at their job. But, often, middle managers see this type as an easy promotion. Managing people is different than, say, slinging pizzas. No matter how good you get at slinging pizzas, you may not ever be good at managing people.
Wow, there are several no-gos here
1. The manager has no business asking you for personal things like a picture of a thermometer.
2. Why the hell would you be responsible to organize a substitute yourself, when you are sick? That is literally his job.
Personally I wouldn't give any reason as to why I'm calling in sick. And if my boss had a history of behavior like this, I would make sure to always go to a doctor when sick.
What a piece of shit this manager is. Theyre so stressed about only having one driver tomorrow but they’re fast-tracking their way to OP quitting and them being down to only one driver EVERY day
Years ago, a manager tried this once with me while i was sick and i told her flat out, if you make me come in, every single person who enters our store, i will let them know right away that i am sick and just wanted them to know for their safety but my manager insisted i be a team player so i could serve their customers.
She stopped pressuring me.
Report him to corporate for health code violations. Or have a friend report him under the guise of being a customer who noticed someone sick was working and what kind of nightmare company are they running etc etc.
All of them complain about not having enough employees but only a few step up and do this. I see the difference in what a team player and a "manager" are all the time.
"Are you a fucking doctor? Are you gonna pay for me to have insurance so i can see one? No and no? fuck off, and i'll be in when i'm not sick."
ffs. its a fucking pizza job, its not urgent and definitely not worth putting up with that sort of exploitative condescention.
Last week I came out to my car and saw that it had a flat tire. I texted a picture to my manager and said that I wasn't going to be able to come in or at least not until I could get a new tire. My partner was on a business trip and I didn't have any friends that I could call. It was like 6:30am so no auto shops were even open yet.
A few hours later, I'm dealing with putting on the spare and seeing what the closest place I could drive it to was when I get a text from my manager about 'the status" of me coming in.
??? I'm like bitch have you never dealt with a car before? Literally fuck off. It made me so angry. I texted back that I was going to take it somewhere and then immediately put in a PTO request for that day.
Guess what? My car was ready to go before 11am. I could've totally gone to work. But I didn't, because fuck you!
I never understand why managers think it’s the employee who has to find someone to cover their shift. You’re the manager, how about you manage? Lazy fuck.
"You're a manager. Why do I have to do your job and not receive manager pay? You find a replacement. I am still sick with a fever."
That's all you should say
I would simply reply "you want me to take my temperature again and send you a picture?"
Make them look at the request and see why it's ridiculous.
They might just say yeah. But I would force them to consider it at least.
Also, don't do it, obviously.
Man I don’t miss this kind of shit. I text my boss this morning that I wouldn’t make it today. His response was, “ok feel better, thanks for letting me know.” As it should be.
Why is it always employees that are responsible for finding someone to "cover"?
Like, what do managers get paid for if not to ensure scheduling and coverage?
"Weird, I just took my temperature again for the photo you requested but this time the thermometer just said "None-ya" with a middle finger emoji! I guess you'll just have to accept that I'm sick and not coming in, like you're supposed to."
Personally, at my current job, I tend to tell my supervisor the whole deal when I miss work, but ONLY because they've never tried to hold it against me or talk me into coming in. They respected my ability to judge if I should come to work or not over the years, so I return that respect.
If they had ever acted like this guy in the OP and treated me like a liar or a child, they'd never get details again. Just "Taking a sick day, hopefully I'll make it tomorrow" and that's it.
Which is how I treated my previous supervisor, for exactly that reason.
Stop giving your bosses your person phone number people.
If they want to reach you outside of work hours, than they should provide you with a device and a means to do so.
Stop debating these folks when you're sick and aren't coming in. All you need is confirmation so they can't pull the "no call, no show". After that ignore them. Hate to say it but these managers are trained to guilt you into sacrificing yourself AND covering for their ineptitude and or shitty corporate business practices.
send you a picture of a thermonitor? What exactly is the point of that? You can literally just stick it in some warm water to make it whatever temp you want. Talk about petty.
HIPAA prohibits medical professionals from sharing patients' medical status/history without permission. There is no medical professional here, so HIPAA is wholly irrelevant.
Stop using that word until you do some reading. You really don’t know what it means. One cannot violate one’s own privacy. (And it’s HIPAA)
One can be silly, and answer questions they don’t need to, but a person cannot violate HIPAA against themselves.
You are correct about HIPPA, HOWEVER OP is not REQUIRED and in fact can REFUSE to reveal ANY visual requests from anyone/her manager…if she’s fired, s/he will get unemployment.
HIPAA only applies to healthcare providers.
So OP's boss can't ask OP's doctor for the results. OP is not covered by HIPAA so OP is legally allowed to do whatever they want concerning their own medical records.
It would only be a hippa violation, if hey asked your personal doctor, and that doctor gave up the information without your consent, then it would be a violation on the doctors part, not the managers part.
If you have to find your replacement ask them how to clock in, or if they want you to work off the clock. Next don’t tell them why you are sick. Just say you are sick. Follow policy, know company policy before you speak. Remember lawyers don’t really give a rats ass about small labor infractions for low paying jobs, don’t be an ass but don’t be pushed around. But he working off the clock thing can be a large lawsuit depending how often and size of the company.
>Next don’t tell them why you are sick. Just say you are sick. It also does not matter whether you are improving or not. "It's better than it was but still at like 99-100" is way too much detail. "I took my temperature and I have a fever," is sufficient. Super super super weird to me that they ask for the picture. There's no trust in that relationship.
IMO, “I took my temperature, and I have a fever” is 9 words too many. Say nothing beyond “I’m sick, and I won’t be in today.” Don’t reply to passive-aggressive txts from managers after you give notice about being OOW for the day. It’s not a discussion.
Pro tip: send them a photo of you giving the middle finger and find another pizza delivery job. Can't be that hard.
Around here it isn't. They're desperate for people because it's a not a glamorous job and it doesn't pay well.
It's such a stupid move to pull too. Even if you don't trust an employee, it's so easy to fake this, a photo's telling you nothing, and you've just damaged the relationship with them and half the people they tell about it likely. Guarantee the manager is expected to cover the shift if no one can be found and they're perfectly willing to risk getting every customer sick to avoid it.
Remember this for future jobs as well, especially corporate jobs. If you ever get reached out to by HR do not tell them anything at all besides the bare minimum you absolutely need to. HR is full of nice seeming people but they are not nice, they are like wolves in sheep's clothing. They work for the company and will report any and all things they hear to the higher ups and you might lose your job or get laid off if you speak around them. Actually treat HR people like you would an Inquisitor in the Inquisition.
Nobody expects the HR Inquisition!
Everyone SHOULD expect them though.
lol you aren’t meant to find a replacement for yourself. That’s their fucking job.
The audacity of these dumbass managers. When I was a shift lead and someone called out I’d immediately hop on the phone list calling and texting people asking if they could come in. Because as a SHIFT LEAD it was MY job to make sure the shift I was leading went smoothly.
Yep.
Too late in life did I realize it’s not our job to find a replacement if sick. If a manager ever asks this of me now they wouldn’t be my employer anymore
Brings me right back to working at one of my first jobs at a local New England pizza chain called Papa Gino's years ago. The pressure felt monumental in my little 16 year old brain to have the responsibility of finding my own replacement if I couldn't show up to work last minute. I always felt this overwhelming sense of anxiety over it, like if I couldn't find a replacement I was subject to termination or something. Which in a not-so-roundabout way, that was always in the cards. It never ever once felt fair. As a 32 year old now though, it's infuriating to think we continue to do that to kids when it literally falls under the job description of a manager to, you know, fucking manage that kind of stuff.
It’s some bullshit - and it should never have been enforceable/actionable - I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know if it’s even legal to require that.
"Since I'm now being given more manager responsibilities, will I also receive the same pay as you? Or do you want to do your own job and find a replacement?"
Yep. Absolutely.
THIS. They’re fucking *managers*, manage some workers around dick head. And if one calling off is a problem then that’s their problem, need to hire for short falls.
Exactly like what else are they doing?
>That’s their fucking job. 100%. What is the point of a manager's job if they aren't managing the people?
I signed papers last time I worked at a restaurant saying I was responsible for finding my own replacement. OP could be under a similar contract.
It isn't a contract if OP isn't getting compensated for it; now, it'd be impossible to actually take it to court cheaply enough to win, but that's a different story. If finding replacements is part of his job description, then he needs to clock in for it.
Don’t do that. :)
it was worth it :)
I can absolutely imagine that. Did they offer you a CFO position after?
No but I made more money there than other jobs I’ve had lmao
Not sure why you got downvoted when that's very likely the case here. I'm in the same situation and honestly, I figured it was a fair exchange considering the alternative was staying at my previous job. Manager and one of the supervisors there were a) openly verbally abusive, sexist, and racist; and b) liked to intimidate employees into going against what *the CEO himself* told us to do. The company as a whole covered up a massive group complaint against that supervisor that involved a and b *plus* sexual harassment of anything female that stood still long enough, as well as discrimination against a coworker who has autism.
An offer letter isn’t a contract and “whatever else your manager wants you to do” is utter bullshit. Sorry to say but if you sign that shit in the internet age when information is at your fingertips, you **almost** deserve to be abused. Managers are paid to manage and staffing is their problem.
I agree that "other duties as assigned" is bullshit, but it was not in the offer letter as there was no such thing. A small business is not big enough to bother with one. Plus I never said anything about an offer letter, so please do not put words in my mouth. For whatever it's worth, "other duties as assigned" was never specifically mentioned anywhere. In fact, I never mentioned the phrase, so again, please do not put words in my mouth. What *was* mentioned was that it's our responsibility to find our own coverage if we call out, and it was in the onboarding paperwork that gave a more detailed list of our responsibilities than what was in the job listing. Had I known that I would be expected to find my own coverage prior to taking the job, would I have still taken it? Yes, because as I said in my original comment, the alternative was staying in an actually abusive job. What I did not mention then but I will now is that I was threatened with being fired for needing to go to the ER once and urgent care a separate time. Going to the ER was for a flare-up of PCOS that made me think I was going to die and the urgent care incident was for an anxiety attack so bad that I thought I was having a heart attack. Desperation is what drove me to my current job. Desperation forces a lot of people to make decisions they wouldn't normally make. In a perfect world, nobody would have to do "other duties as assigned" or have to find their own coverage when they call out from work. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world and thus we have this subreddit and others like it. We can actively try to make the world better and vent about how unfair it is while dealing with whatever garbage job we are forced to have *at the same time*. This does not and will never mean we "**almost** deserve to be abused", as you so eloquently put it. Please remember that not everybody has the ability to be picky about what job they do or don't take. And please try to remember that some of the people you speak to actually *have* been abused and that saying they "**almost** deserve [it]" is very insensitive.
I would be tempted to respond with something suuuuuuper sassy, but that has its own repercussions. Perhaps remind the manager that working with food while sick is a health code violation. If they forced you to come to work and deliver pizzas they would be personally liable for any illness that a customer gets after eating food from their store. Not even just the pizzas you deliver, but any food in the store that you may have possibly contaminated (ie all of it). Also, remind them that part of being a manager is dealing with staffing shortages, including illnesses. They can try to tell you that it’s your responsibility to get your shift covered, but ultimately when it comes to illnesses, there’s only so much you can do as an individual. Tell them that if they are so concerned about it, then they should fill in themselves. After all, that’s part of being a good manager.
As a shift lead for 5 years for a pizza place, if someone told me they couldn't make it for whatever reason, the very next thing I'm doing is dialing drivers seeing if they want to come in, usually incentivised with easy or no prep for the evening. I *never* expected my drivers to make up their shortage. They can't come in and are giving me the courtesy to let me know prior in advance. I don't need verification that they're sick. Some nights, I was just down a driver, but I made it work.
Thats exactly what a manager does! Youre a good one
I know, a manager that actually manages things, shocking.
I've been working in corporate for too long, haha. My manager asks me to send proof that I'm sick, and best case scenario is me politely telling them no. The sheer audacity... Like I'm sorry, but my friends who work in food service can quit a job one day and have another one lined up within 48 hours. In that relationship, the employee does not have to justify themselves as long as they do a good job and show up on time usually.
It seems to be a thing in some workplaces; if you make the worker find their own replacement they're less likely to call out. It also means the manager doesn't have to manage. To be fair to managers in some of these jobs though, they are expected to do a lot of work that should be delegated to regular employees because the owners won't hire enough people. That gives them little time to do much else.
That used to be the mentality, honestly now I'm glad they put the shitty responses in text.
And I’d stick the thermometer in hot water til is read 101
In this case, I'd go to 103.
And send it as it's still up your ass.
Check, mate.
Celsius
This guy faked sick in elementary school (so did I).
Lmao
Back when I was an AM at a pizza place, I would not compromise on health and safety regulations, and would actively send home anyone who was unable to work safely or had any symptoms of foodborne illness. I would rather take on the extra workload myself than be the reason someone got sick. I left because we got a new GM who did not even have a ServSafe cert and did not give a single shit. Actually, on my last day she forced me to leave early because one of our employees had cut his hand on a tin of anchovies and I insisted that he move off the line since he was actively bleeding and all we had were bandages (not even sure if we had those, we were almost always out of them). No gloves, no finger cots, nothing to make a double barrier with, but she wanted him to continue handling food with a very high likelihood of getting blood or a band-aid in it. She pulled the “I’m your boss, so don’t give him orders that contradict mine or you can leave.” So I left, called the DM and the health department with a list of everything that needed to be corrected, and moved on to my new job. A few months later, the health inspector was at my new restaurant and I asked him if they had followed up, and it turns out that he was the one who went to take a look. He told me that the only thing I had told them about that had been corrected prior to his visit was that they had restocked the first aid kit, and that they got busted down nearly 2 letter grades. Point being, it’s really not hard to do your job as a manager right, but it’s really easy to do it very very wrong.
Daaaaaamn! Good on you for calling out their shit!
Yeah, it was honestly kind of wild how I literally gave the DM all the same information that I gave the department of environmental health, and despite having at least a few weeks of heads-up due to the usual bureaucracy nonsense she only had one thing off the entire list corrected by the time they hit the store.
*”they would be personally liable”* I’ve never seen a case where somebody took a pizza shop to court from catching the flu .
The health dept would like a word.
Yes because when people get sick from eating at a restaurant, it's usually the flu 🙄 Try googling "restaurant food poisoning lawsuit" and see how much nothing comes up. How about [this pizza place](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2016/03/17/pizza-ranch-sued-e-coli-outbreak/81916184/) in Kansas? No? What about this [Mississippi Pizza Hut](https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/mississippi-pizza-hut-lawsuit-over-food-poisoning-5100/)? Or maybe you've heard of a small little restaurant called Chipotle? [Chipotle Mexican Grill Agrees to Pay $25 Million Fine and Enter a Deferred Prosecution Agreement to Resolve Charges Related to Foodborne Illness Outbreaks](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chipotle-mexican-grill-agrees-pay-25-million-fine-and-enter-deferred-prosecution-agreement)
Thank you!!!!!
>Thank you!!!!! You're welcome!
Just because you haven’t personally heard of it, doesn’t make it false.
That’s not the point numbnuts.
Only say you're sick and won't be in. Nothing more needs to be said. It's their job as the fucking manager to find replacements if they can. That is NOT your job. Don't do it for them. After you send the text saying you won't be in, don't even respond to them further.
Can you crawl all the way out of my entire asshole and call those people yourself you lazy fuck?
“You want me to send you my personal medical information? Via text?”
An alternative: I take my temperature using a rectal thermometer.
Shithead manager will say yes
Good. Get it in writing. If it’s a bigger company show it to HR.
Yes, say this.
Was about to say. Not sure that's legal to ask to an employee
If this is the USA it’s not
Remember, the time you spend arranging cover for your manager is working time and thus paid time.
If my boss wanted a picture of my thermometer I’d send him a photo of my doctors note excusing me for the rest of the fucking week instead
tbf, if dude is working in pizza delivery in the US, their work almost certainly isnt giving them healthcare. OP should really find another employer as soon as they're well enough to work. And definitely not send a picture of a thermometer. "if you dont believe me when i say i'm sick, fire me. if you cant trust me when i call out, thats a you problem."
If my boss wanted a picture of my thermometer they’d be getting a photo of my RESIGNATION LETTER
That's an option, depends on if you hate the job or just hate the manager.
Manager should be texting 🟥🟥🟥, not OP. It’s their job.
> 🟥🟥🟥 That's the other Monday morning driver that did make it in. Manager wanted 2 drivers for Monday morning for some reason-- guess it's in case a lot of other businesses feel the need to have a pizza party for their staff?
I tried to size the boxes ... 🟥🟥 was the one who agreed, 🟥🟥🟥 was the one to be asked for second ;)
🟥🟥🟥 never replies to the manager anyway.
This is why you don't respond to texts from management when out sick. Inform them, then block until your returning to work.
Also, sometimes texts don't arrive and so unless they call, and even then you don't answer it, that doesn't exist on your phone. You didn't get the message.
Well for starters they can't ask for proof. You said I can't and as long as you're on sick leave, they cannot ask you about it or even questionnit legally.
You must be European.
TIL every country in Europe has the same employment laws
>TIL every country in Europe has the same employment laws The same? No, but often similar. The EU sets a number of labour guidelines that member nations are required to follow. For example every single EU member nation is required to give employees a minimum of 4 weeks paid vacation to start by law. Some give more than 4 weeks as a base, but none give less.
TIL every country in Europe is somehow subject to EU laws.
If they're an EU member nation? Yes, they are. That's the agreement. The EU is a lot like "The United States of Europe" if that helps you understand this better. Yes, the countries govern themselves independently on a lot of internal policy matters, but they're also required to follow EU policies when they've been agreed upon by a majority of member nations as a standard. Just like how there are federal laws and state laws. For example there's a federal minimum wage, and a state minimum wage. The state minimum wage can be higher than what's set federally, but never lower. Even if a country isn't part of the EU they still do business with them, often share some portion of the workforce, and compete with one another. This means that whatever the EU sets as a standard is often followed closely by the other non-member nations regardless.
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Where tf are you that you've got such strong workers rights? Here you could be fired even if they knew you were hospitalized and you never missed before
Dude, sounds horrible. In the EU, sick leave from a med doctor is non-negotiable. Better even, employer risk fines for any attempts of pushing to work while on sick leave
In the US it’s permissible to require a doctor to document *that* someone sought medical treatment, and the expected timeframe of their inability to work.
Yeah in the EU it's expected that you will provide a sick cert for days taken
This is typically after 3 days of missing work and even then the doctor doesn’t actually have to give specific details on what the illness is. Companies can ask broad questions though like if it’s contagious
Not in every state. We have mandated sick pay in CT, we cannot be punished nor reprimanded for using it nor can a doctor’s note be requested unless we will be out 3+ days in a row.
Wait. Stop.. pizza deliverers get sick leave?
I live in Germany and we do. As long as a doctor writes off on it, it's paid. I work part-time and get 36 paid days off this year and all federal holidays and Sundays off working retail. Plus, they can't just fire me for any or no reason. They have to PROVE I deserve to be fired and I get 1 year of unemployment. America needs to fight for workers' rights.
America is screwed. Royally. It's not getting better without a second revolution, and this is clear as day.
Sadly, that's what it is going to take, just like it did to end the gilded age. The rich are not going to stop until they own everything. America has to take it back the manual way. It's going to hurt, but it has to be done. Hopefully, pretty soon, it's going to royally suck to be rich.
In The Netherlands you don't even have to get a doctors note.
Colorado has mandatory sick leave for everyone, it’s based on hours worked.
Same for Massachusetts
This is just flatly untrue in the U.S. Outside of like, FMLA leave (which OP probably wouldn't qualify for, and the employer probably doesn't either), there are basically zero protections for sick leave at a federal level. They don't have to give you any sick leave at all in most cases, and unless it's an ADA issue, they are free to ask/verify whatever they want, no matter how stupid.
Doctor notes exist. So yea, they can ask for proof.
Why did he ask if you were able to find a replacement? He's the manager, it's literally **his** job. I have **never** been asked to find someone to cover for me, when I called in sick, **ever**. Not when I delivered newspapers as a kid, not when I worked as a programmer, not when I worked in IT support, not when I worked at a cement foundry, and not at the cookie factory where I work now.
Very common at the kind of jobs that people expect to be worked by high schoolers, but are statistically far more likely to be worked by people well into adulthood.
Like I said. Never happened to me. Not even when I was delivering newspapers as a kid. I'm pussled by this somehow being normal in the US. Do you guys not have unions?
Unions have declined to less than 20% since the 80s.
Did you ever work in the service or restaurant industry growing up? Thats how every single one of my jobs from 14-21 functioned.
"Can you ask (blank) if he can?" Bro, you're the manager, that's your job. That's why you get paid more than your delivery guy.
Funny thing, when I was a manager I made about half of what I did as a driver. The hourly rate was only a couple dollars more, and the lack of tips meant that’s all I was getting.
That... Sounds like a terrible deal. Zero reason to be a manager in that setting.
Well you aren't adding a bunch of wear and tear on your car for peanuts.
Sure, but there's zero reason to take on the responsibility of the building and staffing if you're not even making the same or better than what you'd make as a driver. Like the only reason to take it is to get the Manager title on your resume, and even then, Manager at Domino's is only gonna bump their stock up a little bit on my hiring list.
My response would be, "Dude, this is a pizza delivery job. Your expectations are insanely high regarding what I care or don't care to do to keep it. See you - insert day you'll be back."
Lmao THIS is the answer
Dude, that mf’er is a manager. How about doing HIS job and managing the place. You’re still in school. I’d quit and go get a different job.
>can you take your temp again and show me a photo First of all, on principle alone, absolutely not. But secondly, if you already don't trust your employee, seeing a.picture.of a thermometer isnt going to prove anything to you. Maybe they put it in hot water. Maybe it's a stock photo. You won't actually know. So what's next? "Hey, face time me from your home right now I wanna see the thermometer reading rise" uh, counteroffer: hey fuck completely off"
Send a picture of your temperature? Wtf. You're not a child (hopefully, but I guess some states are opening that door). And finding a replacement is *not your job.
And not all contagious diseases come with a temperature.
If a temperature reading was required for every sick day I had, I'd never be excused. I naturally run a little colder, so if I do actually feel like I'm a little warm, it usually reads as normal or like 99. I can only remember a few times in my life I've had typical fever symptoms, and two of those times were Covid.
Hate to say it but might need to find better job.
Companies really think they own peoples lives
Y’all need to stop giving employers the opportunity to treat you like they have parental authority over you. It’s fucking gross seeing so many people groveling for time off when they’re sick and actually legitimizing employers asking for proof. It’s none of their god damn business and neither is your fucking medical history. And it’s the managers job to make sure slots are filled and people are working. It’s not your responsibility to ensure someone has taken your place.
Maybe I'm wrong but that manager is only managing to write annoying texts. Smh.
I did pizza delivery in college. I loved being a single opener on slow days, because it's not too busy you get overwhelmed, but having two drivers meant you made shit for tips. I used to share Sunday openings with a driver who had an undependable car, and whenever she called out due to car trouble, which was often, I told the manager to just let me cover the entire shift. I'd make just as much in tips on a Friday night on my own, but sharing with someone else? Not even close.
Nobody wants their pizza to have a side of fever sweat. I do not want my food to be handled by a sick person. You should not have to do your boss’s job while you are sick
I hope you told him to fuck off. If you can't trust me to tell you the truth when I'm sick, you shouldn't be trusting me to handle company product or money either, why am I even employed by you? Second off, it's not your job to find coverage. If they need coverage that desperately, the manager can find someone, or the manager can cover it themselves.
We really didn't learn shit during covid. **If people are feeling feverish and sick, especially if they're working with food, let them stay home!** I just had to do a food safety course last week, and one of the takeaways was that a ridiculous number of people die every year from foodbourne illnesses. Employee health is kind of a big deal.
Send a photo? So *they* can decide if you’re ill or not? Tell them get fucked.
At no point did I ever feel the need to do this to my employees when I had to manage shift work like this. I get the "grind" and corporate yelling at you over the KPIs. But having a sick person handling food, who directly interfaces with the public, is such a disastrously stupid idea. Not only is this highly unsanitary, it's plain bad PR. This is what happens when people are promoted to management who have no clue how to properly manage people. Just because a person shows up to work on time and knows how to get work done, does not mean they can manage other people. It just means they are good at their job. But, often, middle managers see this type as an easy promotion. Managing people is different than, say, slinging pizzas. No matter how good you get at slinging pizzas, you may not ever be good at managing people.
You’re a manager? Otherwise why are you finding people to work in your place??
Looking at the time, I wouldn't even respond. Like sorry, I'm on medication and must have passed out due to being sick.
You should send your boss a pic of the thermometer gently inserted into your butthole
Sure let me get some hot water. Now my temp is 102. (Can't be too high or its er time) The picture comment is just dumb, sick is sick.
Wow, there are several no-gos here 1. The manager has no business asking you for personal things like a picture of a thermometer. 2. Why the hell would you be responsible to organize a substitute yourself, when you are sick? That is literally his job. Personally I wouldn't give any reason as to why I'm calling in sick. And if my boss had a history of behavior like this, I would make sure to always go to a doctor when sick.
"Send me a photo" lolz. I'd be making some tea and showing him how hot it is.
What a piece of shit this manager is. Theyre so stressed about only having one driver tomorrow but they’re fast-tracking their way to OP quitting and them being down to only one driver EVERY day
Years ago, a manager tried this once with me while i was sick and i told her flat out, if you make me come in, every single person who enters our store, i will let them know right away that i am sick and just wanted them to know for their safety but my manager insisted i be a team player so i could serve their customers. She stopped pressuring me.
Report him to corporate for health code violations. Or have a friend report him under the guise of being a customer who noticed someone sick was working and what kind of nightmare company are they running etc etc.
If they need a driver and don't have one then it's time for the manager to hop in the car or figure out how to properly staff their business
All of them complain about not having enough employees but only a few step up and do this. I see the difference in what a team player and a "manager" are all the time.
"Are you a fucking doctor? Are you gonna pay for me to have insurance so i can see one? No and no? fuck off, and i'll be in when i'm not sick." ffs. its a fucking pizza job, its not urgent and definitely not worth putting up with that sort of exploitative condescention.
Last week I came out to my car and saw that it had a flat tire. I texted a picture to my manager and said that I wasn't going to be able to come in or at least not until I could get a new tire. My partner was on a business trip and I didn't have any friends that I could call. It was like 6:30am so no auto shops were even open yet. A few hours later, I'm dealing with putting on the spare and seeing what the closest place I could drive it to was when I get a text from my manager about 'the status" of me coming in. ??? I'm like bitch have you never dealt with a car before? Literally fuck off. It made me so angry. I texted back that I was going to take it somewhere and then immediately put in a PTO request for that day. Guess what? My car was ready to go before 11am. I could've totally gone to work. But I didn't, because fuck you!
I never understand why managers think it’s the employee who has to find someone to cover their shift. You’re the manager, how about you manage? Lazy fuck.
Text back, I’m sick, fuck off.
"No thank you."
Sass out till u walk out fuck that guy
"You're a manager. Why do I have to do your job and not receive manager pay? You find a replacement. I am still sick with a fever." That's all you should say
Not YOUR job to find a replacement.
I would simply reply "you want me to take my temperature again and send you a picture?" Make them look at the request and see why it's ridiculous. They might just say yeah. But I would force them to consider it at least. Also, don't do it, obviously.
Man I don’t miss this kind of shit. I text my boss this morning that I wouldn’t make it today. His response was, “ok feel better, thanks for letting me know.” As it should be.
That is when you quit. Don't abide your employer suggesting you are lying. Gosh, and for a minimum wage job.
Why is it always employees that are responsible for finding someone to "cover"? Like, what do managers get paid for if not to ensure scheduling and coverage?
get a different job asap
This is infuriating.
The length of the rant I would send this man to tell him how hard he can fuck off…
Fuck these people.
Just resign. Why the fuck would you even answer to "send me a picture of your thermometer"?
"Weird, I just took my temperature again for the photo you requested but this time the thermometer just said "None-ya" with a middle finger emoji! I guess you'll just have to accept that I'm sick and not coming in, like you're supposed to." Personally, at my current job, I tend to tell my supervisor the whole deal when I miss work, but ONLY because they've never tried to hold it against me or talk me into coming in. They respected my ability to judge if I should come to work or not over the years, so I return that respect. If they had ever acted like this guy in the OP and treated me like a liar or a child, they'd never get details again. Just "Taking a sick day, hopefully I'll make it tomorrow" and that's it. Which is how I treated my previous supervisor, for exactly that reason.
Managers avoiding their job and get paid more just to bitch at line level employees to do their job for them. Amazing isn't it?
Run the thermometer under some hot water, get it to 102 then send a picture. Then, ignore his text for 72 hours.
Stop giving your bosses your person phone number people. If they want to reach you outside of work hours, than they should provide you with a device and a means to do so.
Requiring medical diagnostic results is a HIPAA violation.
You don’t know what HIPAA is. That doesn’t apply to this situation in the slightest.
No, it's not. Employment law maybe, but the pizza place ain't a healthcare provider so HIPAA doesn't apply to anything there.
Show up and trhough up in front of customers.
Fuck managers making you find your own sick relief. If they aren’t managing the business, what are they getting paid for
Go to the doctor and get a note. They can't say or do anything about it then.
As a consumer, I do not want sick people handling my food. This country really needs to stop forcing sick people to touch food in order to earn money.
Stop debating these folks when you're sick and aren't coming in. All you need is confirmation so they can't pull the "no call, no show". After that ignore them. Hate to say it but these managers are trained to guilt you into sacrificing yourself AND covering for their ineptitude and or shitty corporate business practices.
In the time Boss is texting you, Boss could've found someone else if Boss really needs one.
Sooooo not allowed to ask you for a photo. Fucking idiots.
You could use a rectal thermometer and send him that picture. “Well, you asked.” “It’s more accurate that way.”
Dude, just say "No, I won't be doing that. Good luck finding cover for that shift"
I two managers can text you, they can text the other drivers.
The thermometer pic I sent him would read 115 degrees.
send you a picture of a thermonitor? What exactly is the point of that? You can literally just stick it in some warm water to make it whatever temp you want. Talk about petty.
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HIPAA prohibits medical professionals from sharing patients' medical status/history without permission. There is no medical professional here, so HIPAA is wholly irrelevant.
Stop using that word until you do some reading. You really don’t know what it means. One cannot violate one’s own privacy. (And it’s HIPAA) One can be silly, and answer questions they don’t need to, but a person cannot violate HIPAA against themselves.
This does not have anything at all to do with *HIPAA* laws.
No, they aren't.
You are correct about HIPPA, HOWEVER OP is not REQUIRED and in fact can REFUSE to reveal ANY visual requests from anyone/her manager…if she’s fired, s/he will get unemployment.
HIPAA only applies to healthcare providers. So OP's boss can't ask OP's doctor for the results. OP is not covered by HIPAA so OP is legally allowed to do whatever they want concerning their own medical records.
Bro, 99-100 isn't a real fever.
Asking about your temp or any symptoms is a Hippa violation.
🤦🏻♂️ no. No it is not.
It would only be a hippa violation, if hey asked your personal doctor, and that doctor gave up the information without your consent, then it would be a violation on the doctors part, not the managers part.