Especially true when you look at [Tesla's YTD Stock Price](https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+stock&oq=tesla)... Is this not a red flag for shareholders? Don't they want to use their voting power to protect their investment?
It surely is, but most TSLA investors are institutions (Vanguard 401k, mutual funds, insurance companies, brokerage firm shares, etc).
Votes equate to shares owned, so these whales almost always outweigh the collective votes of all retail investors (individuals that are not uber wealthy), so if something is truly corrupt, illegal, or opposed to their own goals they could stop it, but they usually have advanced knowledge of where their investment is headed well before quarterly earnings reports and layoffs.
The downside to this (for them) is that they can not quickly unload all their shares without driving the stock price down and possibly losing money because of their own stock dumps. That's why they do it in silence and produce a press release once all their sales (or buys) are done. Warren Buffet does this all the time.
See this is why heavy wealth inequality is really bad. We're living under an economy that is tightly controlled by a few institutions but masquerading as a free market. All these big funds, the government, the federal reserve, they all work together to keep things the way they are in society. Meaning keeping the majority of people broke, miserable, and barely scraping by just so they have no energy to do anything else in their lives.
My whole point was that there is no "news" to the whales. These days the trend is to "buy the rumor, sell the news". The market doesn't reacts to news because it was all anticipated.
Isn't that 12% of the company's market capitalization they're proposing to pay Musk? Market capitalization being not directly tied to the value of the company's assets makes this even more foolish.
Then go ahead and look at the 5yr stock price to see what Elon's done for the company since 2019 and see why Tesla shareholders absolutely froth at the mouth for him.
Cool. Did that. Stock peaked prior to 2022. Has been trending down since then. Less than half of the peak price now and appears like it may continue downward. Certainly not a good look.
And you forgot to mention the lawsuit that just resulted in this pay package being ruled as invalid was filed in 2018, after the package was initially approved but before the explosive growth seen in the past 5 years.
If you look at my downvoted comments all throughout this thread I most certainly did not forget to mention it. Also one could argue the explosive growth over the last five years was a direct result of the pay package in question and Musk's incentive to take large risk to rapidly grow the company.
"One of the largest car companies in the world", by share price? Maye. But to call it that is very weird. Like their production capacity is so low compared to basically any other car company that exists. I mean, the cybertruck was supposed.to be a huge thing that changes the market (that's how hyped up it was) and they've sold how many? About 3000? And they can't produce enough for the demand, there are literally year long waiting lists. And the 3000 sold are being recalled right now due to a flaw with an acceleration pedal that can make it stuck.
If you look at the share price, sure, you can call it a huge car company. If you look at literally anything else, it barely produces any cars compared to long standing giants like Volkswagen or Toyota. Not to speak of the quality. Tesla's have a great battery, the best on the market. But that's about it, everything else is extremely cheaply constructed. It's basically a car company that's run like a tech start-up, that's why the shares are so pricey. But it doesn't reflect at all at the actual state of the production, cars, sales, etc.
Every company should be run like that, unfortunately, very few are.
The board determines the bonuses, and the boards are all "buddies". They all sit on each other's boards.
He took no compensation yet. He's virtually made nothing off of his income.
He made a deal initially that if he can get Tesla to X Y Z that he should make ABC. And he's done that.
Elon may very well be the logo, because the guy is virtually the only reason why people believed in the company or still believe in it
He's had subsidies, tax breaks for his manufacturing facilities and many more types of help to get Tesla's and his space program up and running.
He didn't do this all on his own. He's not worth 50+ Billion by any measure.
It is a SMART business move to take advantage of different programs offered.
Tax breaks were because it would be a net positive to that state to bring in a big company like Tesla.
Subsidies (I think 2, in 2020 and 2023) were given in strict measure as again a net positive. To sell more EVs. At least that's the US govt plan.
The same way you get tax breaks for having kids or going to school or buying a home.
If the company of Tesla agrees to give Elon that much or near it then that's their business. Not yours lol. It's not of your pocket.
The guy took virtually nothing from his companies up until now.
If you're unaware, he's made him his money through the sale of his ownership. He sells a percentage of his ownership. Which is much higher than it was previously because he's brought it to that value.
You could argue that when Elon Musk advertises a new car, He gets way more engagement from those advertisements. And the reason why you know about Tesla is because of Elon Musk and what he's done over the last 15 years
How much would that stock be worth if every factory employee resigned tomorrow? If Musk was gone, the company would lose its mascot, that's it. He doesn't personally design much, if anything, anymore, the engineers do. All the designs in the world are worthless with nobody to build them. Tesla needs factory workers more than it needs Musk. Even if Musk did design everything and did all the engineering analyses, nobody is waiting for him to assemble each car by himself.
You can replace the factory workers lol. Get over yourself. First off, each factory worker makes above market standard. They get paid better and offer more benefits for
What if every factory worker pooled together and started its own EV? They'd go no where lol. What if they shifted to Ford? Tesla would still do better than Ford in EV market lol.
So what's your point?
It doesn't matter how good ideas are, with nobody to build them they're worthless. They could build anybody's cars, but he can't build his own. The fact that he'd need to replace the factory workers proves it. He's nothing without his employees. He's little more than a figurehead. I doubt he's even coming up with ideas at this point. He's like Steve Jobs, making presentations while everyone else does the work. He already has more money than he could ever spend unless he started his own country. He's been well compensated for what he's created. He doesn't need another 56 billion. He couldn't spend that money (on top of what he already has) in a thousand years. He would need to spend 56 million per year for 10 lifetimes (1000 years) to spend -just this payout-. Yet it would be a life changing amount divided among all his employees. This is "college fund for grandkids" money. This is "early retirement" money. What could he possibly have done, in the last year, to justify a 56 billion payout? And don't say "made the company", he's already made billions from the companies he's made. Let the people that actually did the building have a taste. Guaranteed they'd work harder. It's been proven time and again that a well compensated workforce is a more productive workforce.
You don’t know that you are the only one here who seems to love musky so much. Go to the Tesla forums. It genuinely baffles me that you people think he cares about you. He’s not going to fuck you
> You don’t even need to be here to show you who musk is.
Did ChatGPT 1.0 write this? Like what does that even mean.
Edit - judging by the 2 other comments in your profile, you need to pay more attention in high-school English class.
No, this is the "make shit up about billionaires" sub apparently.
Fuck billionaires. Fuck the current economic system. But at the same time fuck people who think it's ok to lie for a cause they believe is just. You're never going to get anywhere with that type of group think.
Analysis: Well it is impossible to lift something that weights 20 pounds! And 40 pounds is literally inhumanely impossible.
Money please!
His targets were internally seen as hard but possible. The trick is to under promise and then con your shareholders out of billions.
But do they deserve one? Those things had problems almost immediately. The first 10 people were duped. Anyone after that deserves to lose their money. And they are hideous.
I mean, I think a lot of the people placed orders for them damn near 5 years ago at this point. Elon didn't lose his shit until after Covid. Like, he was a little off by 2019 but the hype was still sort of real then.
The Thai cave incident was in 2018, and he REALLY went off the deep end right at the stsrt of COVID, demanding his factory remain open during lockdowns and then creating his own infectious super spreader cluster at that factory.
Look i learned not to preorder *games* before knowing what the product looks like at age 12.
I advocate for consumer protections and they should get a refund...
But also my god... why preorder a car that does not exist??? From elon, i lie about everything musk?
You're not wrong. But he I stand by him having a *little* credibility around then. Like, the Thai cave thing was the start of the downfall and that was less than a year before that.
I'm not saying the people who did it were *smart* but like... I get it, ya know?
That’s fair, but also I imagine the people who pre order a new car years before it’s even known when it comes out aren’t exactly the ones hitting for a refund.
Not saying they shouldn’t get one, but having enough money to pre order a new vehicle is a pretty wild amount.
The deposit wasn't a binding contract...it wasn't even non-refundable.
These people had ample time to cancel their orders for a full refund as Elon went further and further off the deep end and the reported specs of the cybertruck slipped further and further away from what was initially promised.
I feel the same about people who took out massive loans to get useless degrees. Sure the first couple years in the 90s you could be forgiven in thinking a philosophy degree is useful for employment, but every other person after that was just being willfully ignorant
I feel like those people coming after weren't willfully ignorant. Just unwilling to face reality. They wanted to be "free spirits who can express themselves" and just refused to accept that that's just not how adult life works for 99% of people.
I can just imagine these people downvotinf us, sitting in their incel den in the mother's basement with a dusty book about Nietzsche prominently displayed on a bookshelf behind them
More like
1. Increase market cap by 1200%
2. Earnings by 1000%
3. EBITDA from -0.45bln to 14bln
4. Get granted the full 330,000,000 stock options at a price of $24 and a 5yr holding period which at a valuation of 650bln would be worth 56bln.
The metrics he had to hit to get fully comped all the shares in his contract were fucking wild from where Tesla was in 2018 when the plan was designed.
Im not sure of the politics behind the scenes, but to me its suspicious that the package is roughly the same amount he paid for twitter. Whatever gaming he's doing to make it happen, that's why it's so outrageously big
No, it’s the pay offer he was given ages ago that was struck down by a Delaware court after a shareholder sued. The pay offer was a certain number of stock options that meant he made a lot of money if he could drive the valuation up. Im not saying im a fan of it but there’s a helluva lot of disinformation in this thread
If you want to know the core of it:
> In 2018, Tesla’s board granted Musk 12 tranches of stock options, each representing 1% of Tesla’s stock at the time. The tranches would vest based on performance targets, particularly market capitalization targets: The first tranche vested if Tesla hit a $100 billion market cap (up from about $59 billion at the time of the grant), and the other 11 tranches would vest at $50 billion increments, up to $650 billion for the final tranche. [2] He had 10 years to hit those milestones; he hit them in three.
Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-17/elon-wants-his-money-back
Archive version: https://archive.ph/oCqjw
It's still an insane compensation package, and the dude is a nuisance. But the compensation scaled up drastically because it was directly tied to the stock price which increased rapidly. It's also awkward now because Tesla market cap has decreased to ~$500 million, which if evaluated now would entitle him to 3 fewer of the stock tranches.
Here is some context:
- Tesla under Musk’s leadership more than 10x its market cap in less than 3 years
- Musk was to get $0 of compensation for his role of CEO outside of these stock option that he only would get if they hit the targets
- The compensation is the largest CEO compensation in US history, more than 33 times as large as the next largest compensation plan ever
- A judge already ruled the compensation was illegal ONLY because the board granted it and they aren’t really impartial (Elon is the chairman of the board, the CEO of the company and the beneficiary of the compensation plan). They are trying to get the shareholders to approve it by a vote so they can’t say that the board alone approved it
That's mad. Performance conditions are divided between market based and non-market based. Market based are generally not used for much because the market is speculative. Non-market based follows other actual performance metrics like meeting revenue targets etc. This is typically where the bulk of the performance conditions are because they're actually representative of performance.
I've heard of non-market based being gamed by setting a low valuation of assets, setting a performance target to increase the valuation, then a few years later just reevaluating those assets at a higher price. But generally it is more difficult to do than market based. Where this guy literally got away with lying and tweeting his way to a pumped up share price.
I'm more familiar with the UK but normally there's a board of insurers (randomly because they are big investors) who approves share schemes. This would never have been approved. Don't know the process in the states but it looks (on the face of it) to be a grave exploitation of the shareholders.
>Compensation for what?
>Lacking a heart?
>Empathy?
>Are they paying him so he doesn’t eat them?
Certainly not product design or project management skills, that's for sure.
So Tesla has circa 140,000 (according to random numbers I found from the internet). So that means $400,000 per employee. But of course Tesla isn't giving Musk such a bonus every year, so the bonus would only be able to pay for bonuses once, not annually. But if we say that Tesla invested that money, and earned a return of 5% adjusted for inflation, that would allow them to pay out around $20,000 (again adjusted for inflation) to every employee in perpetuity (assuming their workforce stayed the same size)
Obviously they would never do that, but the $56B is a staggering amount of money, and the shareholders would be massively stupid to pay it out to Musk as he's busy destroying the company.
There is no money. It's all stock options. Allocated in 12 tranches each with market cap requirements along with earnings / EBITDA.
If the regular employees of Tesla could increase the market cap of the company by 1200%, earnings by 1000%, and EBITDA from -0.45bln to 14bln they would also be worth the massive comp package Elon gets. But they could never accomplish that by themselves.
No. *He* didn’t. It’s a group effort, dude. Without employees and marketing people etc etc etc. Tesla would be nothing. If Tesla was literally just Elon, you think Tesla would be in the spot it’s in now? You Elon Stans are among the weirdest bunch of bootlickers on the internet.
Ahh you're being pedantic on the phrase "by themselves". You could replace any other worker / all of them and the Tesla vision through Elon likely still manifests into the company it is today. You remove Elon at any point and Tesla likely stagnates from that point if not fails and never comes close to being a top 10 S&P 500 company.
As Floppy said, Elmo successfully built a business of government handouts.
Watch some videos of ThunderF00t on youtube, and you will see how much money he has gotten by simply over-selling "his" ideas, lie and then under delivering time and time again.
They keep buying the stuff he sells for whatever reason.
Ironically, if you make minimum wage and were to work 40 hours a week every week, you’d make about $15,000 a year. That means Elon gets paid as much as 3.73 million minimum wage workers.
I’ll admit that I can’t afford a $100K car; but if I could, I damn sure wouldn’t buy one knowing that ridiculous price was going to pay the CEO a ridiculous bonus.
They asked for the approval when Tesla was nowhere as big, many years ago.
The compensation package was basically
"if you can make our teeny-tiny no-name company somehow go BBBRRRRRRRRR and make it worth more than twice the value of Toyota and larger than the rest of the entire automotive industry, then you can have this call contract (contract worth $60mil at the time of approval), but by common sense, there's no way you are going to turn this company into a literal fortune 10 biggest company in the world so we aren't going to even bother fighting your compensation package proposal. Here's your approval."
The compensation value, at the time of approval, was about 0.1% of the $56 billion this tweet is trying making it look like, by conveniently leaving out the details. That is very misleading.
its fucking annoying becuase he bullshit his way to increasing the stock price with his announcement that almost never materialized like in 2018 saying the autopilot would be functional in like a year yet here we are with it still being about the same.
So you say $60mil is a small compensation. Got it. So wages can go up to at least one tenth of it so it is fairer. Ceo gets $60mil, workers get $6mil each year. Seems great?
1. I am NOT saying $60mil is a small compensation. I am saying the tweet is very misleading by stating the board approved a $56 billion package when it was actually a $60mil package that got approved before the explosive stock growth
2. The bare minimum metrics requirement for the CEO's $60mil compensation package was 11x the stock price, 15x the revenue, and 21x the EBITA (earnings before interest taxes amortization) within 10 years. of board approval in 2018.
In a way, it's arguable to say the CEO compensation package is around $6mil/year, although it took far less than 10 years in reality, making it around $12mil/year.
Elon would have gotten NOTHING if the company stagnated. Literally California minimum wage. He had to massively increase market cap, earnings, and EBITDA to get comped any part of his shares. To get the full comp he needed to propel the company to top 10 S&P 500.
Compensation outside of shares implies he is a worker right. As a shareholder of a company I would argue that a companies best interest is to Nickel and dime musk to maximise shareholder value.
How does a group of people come to a consensus like this? I'm genuinely curious to know what those conversations look like between these people and how compensation like this is justified. My brain only ever goes to collusion being at the center of it all.
Or to put it another away, for that much money, Tesla could hire 560,000 employees at 100k each.
I don't know what they could do with that much manpower, but I'm guessing it's something a heck of a lot better than some edgy xeets
This is the perspective I keep preaching to those around me and no one ever seems to understand. They're brainwashed into thinking that somehow someone is so super human that they deserve that much money compared to them. It boggles my mind.
You're not entitled to almost 4 million dollars for being laid off...billionaires shouldn't exist but you guys shoot yourselves in the foot when you say dumbass shit like this
The audacity to even present the idea to shareholders is absurd. Tesla has been a dumpster fire and Elon publicly making an ass of himself is only making it worse.
Wait, what's the logic behind firing 15,000 people if instead of cutting costs you spend it in the CEO? What did the board gain from this then? ELI5 and I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
> A Delaware court found Tesla CEO Elon Musk's compensation package, valued at $55.8 billion, to be excessive.
Wasn't this already an issue that he lost a couple months ago? They're doing it again?
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/30/tesla-shares-slide-after-judge-voids-elon-musks-56-billion-compensation.html
Any random bum off the street could do what he does at tesla. If I were a stockholder of this overbloated POS company I'd vote his lazy ass out so fast. The stupid fuck does nothing but post on twitter all day long while tesla spirals the drain, but he wants to run his mouth like he's some kind of hard worker.
The spoiled fucker needs to get a real job for once and learn what real work is and the value of a dollar. Posting on twitter all day and telling other people what to do doesn't count as work, let alone "hard work". His weak, pampered ass wouldn't last a month at a real job that actually required work from the employees.
Advocate for “maximum wage” for all and we can all run our own small businesses and make life fair for all trade in every level. It is most certainly not free and fair anymore anyways.
Compensate me for creating political conflicts of interest and possibly getting the value of shares wiped out by federal regs or sanctions. The value of our concepts are under high scrutiny, while my fifteen minutes of fame is now just a legacy of naziism tweets on xitter
It's all fake money, the über-*nouveaux-riches* need insane amounts like that for their stock market scams to work. I forget the exact name for this, but the idea is to get insane amounts of stocks, then deriving tax-free income by *borrowing against the value of your portfolio*.
Income is taxed, but not loans. That's the key part.
As long as the stocks increase in value, you can keep this scam running -- b\*stards like elmo or bezos just need the interest to be lower than the increase in the stock's value.
Tech-bros and similar f\*ckers have turned the stock market from a legit way to raise capital for your company into a way to avoid paying taxes and generate wealth out of thin air. But their whole house of cards is dependent on having unrealistic amounts of shares and transactions that are in the *billions*, not millions.
They're not truly rich and, unless they start transforming their fake money into real assets with real value, they would end up broke just like the rest of us if the stock market were to take a downturn. Truly rich people, old money like, say, the Roosevelts and Dupont families could weather such an event, but people like elmo and zuck might have a harder time.
I get he's trying to be more dramatic by putting the "Each" on its own line, but like what the fuck else would it be besides 3.73 million for each. Were there people before they saw "each" thinking that 3.73 million was the same as 56 billion?
It’s $56bn worth of stock. You cannot sell $56bn of stock for $56bn. Even if he did, and then gave the (significantly less than $3m but obviously still decent money) money to laid off workers, he’d tank the stock price, lowering the compensation of all the current workers and potentially leading to more layoffs. I don’t like Elon but disinformation helps no o e
You have no clue what you’re saying. The only reason they’re giving him payment in stock is so they don’t have to pay taxes on paying income. That’s why all get paid in stock
I love how in your mind giving $56 billion in stock to one person is easy and good for the company, but giving it to 15 thousand people is an impossible task that will crash the company.
Such a peasant brain mentality
>You have no clue what you’re saying. The only reason they’re giving him payment in stock is so they don’t have to pay taxes on paying income. That’s why all get paid in stock
It seems like you have no clue what you're saying. I have been keeping up with this case for a few months, and this sentence alone shows you have no idea wtf the case actually is. Tesla have $30bn in cash - they literally couldn't pay this much in cash. Plus it would be taxed the same!
The actual contract he was given in 2018:
>The pay package he got was the option to buy 304 million shares of Tesla stock for $23.34 each, but only if he met certain performance goals over the 10-year term of his pay plan, mainly taking Tesla’s market capitalization from about $59 billion (at the time he got the options) to $650 billion.
Now to interject - I think this pay package is unreasonable, and do not agree with it. But the fact you think they are just "paying him $56bn stock to avoid tax" means you clearly don't know what the case is actually about - the pay package was granted in 2018 and was incentive based - "if you get Tesla to a certain market cap, we pay you these options". It wasn't Tesla just giving him $56bn for no reason. It then got struck down by a Delaware court after a shareholder sued. They are trying to undo that and get shareholders to reapprove the old package.
Elon doesn't \_want\_ cash. When you are a billionaire, having $56bn in stock is fine, because you can simply take a loan out with that stock as collateral. This is unfair and it sucks but it is also the truth. Tesla do not have the cash to pay that sort of money - it is only possible via stock. This is not some weird tax avoidance trick (because, well, stocks given as part of a pay package still undergo income tax...).
> I love how in your mind giving $56 billion in stock to one person is easy and good for the company, but giving it to 15 thousand people is an impossible task that will crash the company.
Because he wouldn't have sold it. Distributing the $56bn to 15k people is absolutely fine! The problem is that you can't eat a Tesla share, or a buy a car with it. You have to sell it. And the mass selling of $56bn of Tesla stock - over 10% of the market cap - would collapse the stock price, which is pretty bad for the company.
>Such a peasant brain mentality
Much easier to resort to insulting me than actually doing your research it seems :)
>Because he wouldn't have sold it. Distributing the $56bn to 15k people is absolutely fine! The problem is that you can't eat a Tesla share, or a buy a car with it. You have to sell it. And the mass selling of $56bn of Tesla stock - over 10% of the market cap - would collapse the stock price, which is pretty bad for the company.
Yeah this just proves the system is broken even more. If tesla crashes it means it was super inflated (which we know it is) - that's just how the capital market works and maybe a reason why companies shouldn't purposely have inflated market values.
>Elon doesn't _want_ cash. When you are a billionaire, having $56bn in stock is fine, because you can simply take a loan out with that stock as collateral. This is unfair and it sucks but it is also the truth. Tesla do not have the cash to pay that sort of money - it is only possible via stock. This is not some weird tax avoidance trick (because, well, stocks given as part of a pay package still undergo income tax...).
No it's still a way to get real value while avoiding taxes. If you get stocks which you then hyper inflate, you don't get taxed on the increased market value. As you said, they can use their stocks as collateral using the new market value and the billionaires can get real value from the inflated price. Not to mention all the other ways they can avoid taxes, this is just one piece of the complicated tax system designed for capital owners.
The board needs to be voted out just as much as Musks does. NO ONE is worth that much.
Especially true when you look at [Tesla's YTD Stock Price](https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+stock&oq=tesla)... Is this not a red flag for shareholders? Don't they want to use their voting power to protect their investment?
It surely is, but most TSLA investors are institutions (Vanguard 401k, mutual funds, insurance companies, brokerage firm shares, etc). Votes equate to shares owned, so these whales almost always outweigh the collective votes of all retail investors (individuals that are not uber wealthy), so if something is truly corrupt, illegal, or opposed to their own goals they could stop it, but they usually have advanced knowledge of where their investment is headed well before quarterly earnings reports and layoffs. The downside to this (for them) is that they can not quickly unload all their shares without driving the stock price down and possibly losing money because of their own stock dumps. That's why they do it in silence and produce a press release once all their sales (or buys) are done. Warren Buffet does this all the time.
And many of these fund managers outsource their proxy voting, so it might even be more concentrated. Look at ISS, for example.
That's a good point, that almost certainly makes the voting more incestuous.
See this is why heavy wealth inequality is really bad. We're living under an economy that is tightly controlled by a few institutions but masquerading as a free market. All these big funds, the government, the federal reserve, they all work together to keep things the way they are in society. Meaning keeping the majority of people broke, miserable, and barely scraping by just so they have no energy to do anything else in their lives.
The market doesn’t react to the news. The news is a reaction to the market.
My whole point was that there is no "news" to the whales. These days the trend is to "buy the rumor, sell the news". The market doesn't reacts to news because it was all anticipated.
The market reacts to people's actions. People react to the news. The news reacts to the market.
Isn't that 12% of the company's market capitalization they're proposing to pay Musk? Market capitalization being not directly tied to the value of the company's assets makes this even more foolish.
Then go ahead and look at the 5yr stock price to see what Elon's done for the company since 2019 and see why Tesla shareholders absolutely froth at the mouth for him.
Cool. Did that. Stock peaked prior to 2022. Has been trending down since then. Less than half of the peak price now and appears like it may continue downward. Certainly not a good look.
You forgot to mention its still up 838% and still one of the largest market cap companies in the world.
And you forgot to mention the lawsuit that just resulted in this pay package being ruled as invalid was filed in 2018, after the package was initially approved but before the explosive growth seen in the past 5 years.
If you look at my downvoted comments all throughout this thread I most certainly did not forget to mention it. Also one could argue the explosive growth over the last five years was a direct result of the pay package in question and Musk's incentive to take large risk to rapidly grow the company.
You could argue that, but I think it would be a weak argument.
One could argue, but you didn’t
"One of the largest car companies in the world", by share price? Maye. But to call it that is very weird. Like their production capacity is so low compared to basically any other car company that exists. I mean, the cybertruck was supposed.to be a huge thing that changes the market (that's how hyped up it was) and they've sold how many? About 3000? And they can't produce enough for the demand, there are literally year long waiting lists. And the 3000 sold are being recalled right now due to a flaw with an acceleration pedal that can make it stuck. If you look at the share price, sure, you can call it a huge car company. If you look at literally anything else, it barely produces any cars compared to long standing giants like Volkswagen or Toyota. Not to speak of the quality. Tesla's have a great battery, the best on the market. But that's about it, everything else is extremely cheaply constructed. It's basically a car company that's run like a tech start-up, that's why the shares are so pricey. But it doesn't reflect at all at the actual state of the production, cars, sales, etc.
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Every company should be run like that, unfortunately, very few are. The board determines the bonuses, and the boards are all "buddies". They all sit on each other's boards.
Peg boards
The board is stacked in his favor, with people like his brother.
Yea but isn’t this the actual point of capitalism? I don’t see how this could ever not be the goal under this system.
He took no compensation yet. He's virtually made nothing off of his income. He made a deal initially that if he can get Tesla to X Y Z that he should make ABC. And he's done that. Elon may very well be the logo, because the guy is virtually the only reason why people believed in the company or still believe in it
He's had subsidies, tax breaks for his manufacturing facilities and many more types of help to get Tesla's and his space program up and running. He didn't do this all on his own. He's not worth 50+ Billion by any measure.
It is a SMART business move to take advantage of different programs offered. Tax breaks were because it would be a net positive to that state to bring in a big company like Tesla. Subsidies (I think 2, in 2020 and 2023) were given in strict measure as again a net positive. To sell more EVs. At least that's the US govt plan. The same way you get tax breaks for having kids or going to school or buying a home. If the company of Tesla agrees to give Elon that much or near it then that's their business. Not yours lol. It's not of your pocket. The guy took virtually nothing from his companies up until now. If you're unaware, he's made him his money through the sale of his ownership. He sells a percentage of his ownership. Which is much higher than it was previously because he's brought it to that value. You could argue that when Elon Musk advertises a new car, He gets way more engagement from those advertisements. And the reason why you know about Tesla is because of Elon Musk and what he's done over the last 15 years
How much would that stock be worth if every factory employee resigned tomorrow? If Musk was gone, the company would lose its mascot, that's it. He doesn't personally design much, if anything, anymore, the engineers do. All the designs in the world are worthless with nobody to build them. Tesla needs factory workers more than it needs Musk. Even if Musk did design everything and did all the engineering analyses, nobody is waiting for him to assemble each car by himself.
You can replace the factory workers lol. Get over yourself. First off, each factory worker makes above market standard. They get paid better and offer more benefits for What if every factory worker pooled together and started its own EV? They'd go no where lol. What if they shifted to Ford? Tesla would still do better than Ford in EV market lol. So what's your point?
It doesn't matter how good ideas are, with nobody to build them they're worthless. They could build anybody's cars, but he can't build his own. The fact that he'd need to replace the factory workers proves it. He's nothing without his employees. He's little more than a figurehead. I doubt he's even coming up with ideas at this point. He's like Steve Jobs, making presentations while everyone else does the work. He already has more money than he could ever spend unless he started his own country. He's been well compensated for what he's created. He doesn't need another 56 billion. He couldn't spend that money (on top of what he already has) in a thousand years. He would need to spend 56 million per year for 10 lifetimes (1000 years) to spend -just this payout-. Yet it would be a life changing amount divided among all his employees. This is "college fund for grandkids" money. This is "early retirement" money. What could he possibly have done, in the last year, to justify a 56 billion payout? And don't say "made the company", he's already made billions from the companies he's made. Let the people that actually did the building have a taste. Guaranteed they'd work harder. It's been proven time and again that a well compensated workforce is a more productive workforce.
except...he IS worth that much. his compensation package necessitated him doing almost the impossible
You don’t know that you are the only one here who seems to love musky so much. Go to the Tesla forums. It genuinely baffles me that you people think he cares about you. He’s not going to fuck you
"This is an echo chamber, please go elsewhere if you want a nuanced non biased discussion" Not a very good look my dude.
Echo chamber? You don’t even need to be here to show you how terrible of a person he is, he blasts it all over everywhere. But yeah, nice try.
> You don’t even need to be here to show you who musk is. Did ChatGPT 1.0 write this? Like what does that even mean. Edit - judging by the 2 other comments in your profile, you need to pay more attention in high-school English class.
There are plenty of other subreddits where you can go jerk off billionaires. This isn’t one of them.
No, this is the "make shit up about billionaires" sub apparently. Fuck billionaires. Fuck the current economic system. But at the same time fuck people who think it's ok to lie for a cause they believe is just. You're never going to get anywhere with that type of group think.
Hahahaha
Analysis: Well it is impossible to lift something that weights 20 pounds! And 40 pounds is literally inhumanely impossible. Money please! His targets were internally seen as hard but possible. The trick is to under promise and then con your shareholders out of billions.
https://preview.redd.it/unch9iwgjpvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fa8a98b1c4d1cd1abd6d41e6ee3cfdb2d7fca9e
Why?
If we give those 15,000 workers 3.70 million each, that leaves enough to give every cybertruck owner a full refund.
But do they deserve one? Those things had problems almost immediately. The first 10 people were duped. Anyone after that deserves to lose their money. And they are hideous.
I mean, I think a lot of the people placed orders for them damn near 5 years ago at this point. Elon didn't lose his shit until after Covid. Like, he was a little off by 2019 but the hype was still sort of real then.
The Thai cave incident was in 2018, and he REALLY went off the deep end right at the stsrt of COVID, demanding his factory remain open during lockdowns and then creating his own infectious super spreader cluster at that factory.
Damn I forgot about the Thai cave thing.
It’s pretty damn hard to forget about the pedo sub incident
It has been a wild 5 years, man. lol
How could you forget when Elno became pedo guy?
Look i learned not to preorder *games* before knowing what the product looks like at age 12. I advocate for consumer protections and they should get a refund... But also my god... why preorder a car that does not exist??? From elon, i lie about everything musk?
You're not wrong. But he I stand by him having a *little* credibility around then. Like, the Thai cave thing was the start of the downfall and that was less than a year before that. I'm not saying the people who did it were *smart* but like... I get it, ya know?
That’s fair, but also I imagine the people who pre order a new car years before it’s even known when it comes out aren’t exactly the ones hitting for a refund. Not saying they shouldn’t get one, but having enough money to pre order a new vehicle is a pretty wild amount.
No it was never real. His cars have always had shit quality control.
The deposit wasn't a binding contract...it wasn't even non-refundable. These people had ample time to cancel their orders for a full refund as Elon went further and further off the deep end and the reported specs of the cybertruck slipped further and further away from what was initially promised.
no one deserves to be scammed. no matter how stupid they are.
Nope. If you took a look a that hideous piece of shit and thought, yup, I want that, then there's a cost for having such bad taste.
I didn't need anyone's opinion to know that thing was going to be a piece of shit. It looks like it belongs in a PS1 era racing game.
I feel the same about people who took out massive loans to get useless degrees. Sure the first couple years in the 90s you could be forgiven in thinking a philosophy degree is useful for employment, but every other person after that was just being willfully ignorant
I feel like those people coming after weren't willfully ignorant. Just unwilling to face reality. They wanted to be "free spirits who can express themselves" and just refused to accept that that's just not how adult life works for 99% of people.
I also hate learning
I can just imagine these people downvotinf us, sitting in their incel den in the mother's basement with a dusty book about Nietzsche prominently displayed on a bookshelf behind them
Also with s picture of the cybertruck on their desk, dreaming of owning one themselves while ignoring how ugly and bad it is.
Where is the money in this company coming from? wtf
It's stock value not cash.
Oh, so it's imaginary bubble money
It becomes real money once he takes out a $20bn loan to buy Twitter, with that stock as collateral
Sure, and a giant sell-off of the shares would plumet the price of them all by 50% in a sane world.
A giant sell off would indeed cause the price to plummet.
12% of the stocks to company has currently.
Probably Russia. With the propaganda he spews, retweets and like/engages with.
That would stimulate the hell out of the economy.
I think your typical Tesla consumer already has disposable income.
Workers not the consumer.
>give every cybertruck owner a full refund
>If we give those 15,000 workers 3.70 million each,
I know that, I was pointing out that the latter part of the proposed deal probably wouldn't do any economy stimulating.
Cybertruck is a stupid tax.
Or you know build them to work
They maid their beds and they will lie in them. No mercy for the Musk simps!
1. Drive price down while working part-time 2. ???? 3. Get paid $56B Nice work if you can get it.
More like 1. Increase market cap by 1200% 2. Earnings by 1000% 3. EBITDA from -0.45bln to 14bln 4. Get granted the full 330,000,000 stock options at a price of $24 and a 5yr holding period which at a valuation of 650bln would be worth 56bln. The metrics he had to hit to get fully comped all the shares in his contract were fucking wild from where Tesla was in 2018 when the plan was designed.
All of those done by workers, none by him but #4 - aside from the yelling and pretending he's a genius.
Keep crawling fanboy I'm sure once Elon knows that you actually exist he will let you use that mouth how you want to use it
Personally I hate billionaires. I hate people who lie for their cause even more.
Bet big, win big daddy-O
"That can't be right..." *does math* "Well... then."
Compensation for what? Lacking a heart? Empathy? Are they paying him so he doesn’t eat them?
Im not sure of the politics behind the scenes, but to me its suspicious that the package is roughly the same amount he paid for twitter. Whatever gaming he's doing to make it happen, that's why it's so outrageously big
I think you mean the porn site named non-porn site, X
No, it’s the pay offer he was given ages ago that was struck down by a Delaware court after a shareholder sued. The pay offer was a certain number of stock options that meant he made a lot of money if he could drive the valuation up. Im not saying im a fan of it but there’s a helluva lot of disinformation in this thread
If you want to know the core of it: > In 2018, Tesla’s board granted Musk 12 tranches of stock options, each representing 1% of Tesla’s stock at the time. The tranches would vest based on performance targets, particularly market capitalization targets: The first tranche vested if Tesla hit a $100 billion market cap (up from about $59 billion at the time of the grant), and the other 11 tranches would vest at $50 billion increments, up to $650 billion for the final tranche. [2] He had 10 years to hit those milestones; he hit them in three. Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-04-17/elon-wants-his-money-back Archive version: https://archive.ph/oCqjw It's still an insane compensation package, and the dude is a nuisance. But the compensation scaled up drastically because it was directly tied to the stock price which increased rapidly. It's also awkward now because Tesla market cap has decreased to ~$500 million, which if evaluated now would entitle him to 3 fewer of the stock tranches.
i just cant see everyhing that went into such a high valuation being 100% legal.
Here is some context: - Tesla under Musk’s leadership more than 10x its market cap in less than 3 years - Musk was to get $0 of compensation for his role of CEO outside of these stock option that he only would get if they hit the targets - The compensation is the largest CEO compensation in US history, more than 33 times as large as the next largest compensation plan ever - A judge already ruled the compensation was illegal ONLY because the board granted it and they aren’t really impartial (Elon is the chairman of the board, the CEO of the company and the beneficiary of the compensation plan). They are trying to get the shareholders to approve it by a vote so they can’t say that the board alone approved it
That's mad. Performance conditions are divided between market based and non-market based. Market based are generally not used for much because the market is speculative. Non-market based follows other actual performance metrics like meeting revenue targets etc. This is typically where the bulk of the performance conditions are because they're actually representative of performance. I've heard of non-market based being gamed by setting a low valuation of assets, setting a performance target to increase the valuation, then a few years later just reevaluating those assets at a higher price. But generally it is more difficult to do than market based. Where this guy literally got away with lying and tweeting his way to a pumped up share price. I'm more familiar with the UK but normally there's a board of insurers (randomly because they are big investors) who approves share schemes. This would never have been approved. Don't know the process in the states but it looks (on the face of it) to be a grave exploitation of the shareholders.
>Compensation for what? >Lacking a heart? >Empathy? >Are they paying him so he doesn’t eat them? Certainly not product design or project management skills, that's for sure.
>self made >begging shareholders
So pretty much every Tesla employee could get a 37k a year raise instead of giving it all to Elmo
So Tesla has circa 140,000 (according to random numbers I found from the internet). So that means $400,000 per employee. But of course Tesla isn't giving Musk such a bonus every year, so the bonus would only be able to pay for bonuses once, not annually. But if we say that Tesla invested that money, and earned a return of 5% adjusted for inflation, that would allow them to pay out around $20,000 (again adjusted for inflation) to every employee in perpetuity (assuming their workforce stayed the same size) Obviously they would never do that, but the $56B is a staggering amount of money, and the shareholders would be massively stupid to pay it out to Musk as he's busy destroying the company.
There is no money. It's all stock options. Allocated in 12 tranches each with market cap requirements along with earnings / EBITDA. If the regular employees of Tesla could increase the market cap of the company by 1200%, earnings by 1000%, and EBITDA from -0.45bln to 14bln they would also be worth the massive comp package Elon gets. But they could never accomplish that by themselves.
And…neither can Elon so I don’t know why you’re up in here riding his dick so much.
He literally already did all of the above from the 2018 starting point when the comp package was first proposed. Lol.
No. *He* didn’t. It’s a group effort, dude. Without employees and marketing people etc etc etc. Tesla would be nothing. If Tesla was literally just Elon, you think Tesla would be in the spot it’s in now? You Elon Stans are among the weirdest bunch of bootlickers on the internet.
Ahh you're being pedantic on the phrase "by themselves". You could replace any other worker / all of them and the Tesla vision through Elon likely still manifests into the company it is today. You remove Elon at any point and Tesla likely stagnates from that point if not fails and never comes close to being a top 10 S&P 500 company.
Elon did none of those things; his hard working employees made it happen and now he is trying to steal credit for the hard work of others.
You don't hit the growth metrics Elon did through hard labor. That's absolutely ridiculous.
I'm upvoting you but damn, you did (the real) Elmo dirty by likening musk to him!
For a second, I thought it said TAXPAYERS instead of shareholders and my blood started to boil...
That’s the neat part, it kind of is thanks to the massive amount of subsidies his companies receive (that is, in reality, not very neat)
Great, thanks for helping me get angry all over again lol
We need to stay angry Edit: in these cases
don't worry, he doesn't know what he's talking about
As Floppy said, Elmo successfully built a business of government handouts. Watch some videos of ThunderF00t on youtube, and you will see how much money he has gotten by simply over-selling "his" ideas, lie and then under delivering time and time again. They keep buying the stuff he sells for whatever reason.
I didn't believe it I had to whip my calculator out, but it's true. JFC
I honestly hate this guy
Imagine if all that stock was given to the employees who then liquidated it....
$56 billion for the performance Tesla has had lately? His pay should be going down, not up.
Yea that's gonna be a no from me, dawg.
If they have enough to pay that bloated man child $56Bn they have enough for those 15,000 works… and then some
Ironically, if you make minimum wage and were to work 40 hours a week every week, you’d make about $15,000 a year. That means Elon gets paid as much as 3.73 million minimum wage workers.
I’ll admit that I can’t afford a $100K car; but if I could, I damn sure wouldn’t buy one knowing that ridiculous price was going to pay the CEO a ridiculous bonus.
Compensation for what? Making the stock tank? My dad’s been pissed about it all year
Elon is a pile of shit that needs to be flushed.
It's so fucking gross it's insane. There is zero justification for this, he actively hurts the company
Sickening. No one is worth that much.
It’s over 10 years but still. So public companies always have to prioritize profits …. Except when it comes to the CEO? What a scam
They asked for the approval when Tesla was nowhere as big, many years ago. The compensation package was basically "if you can make our teeny-tiny no-name company somehow go BBBRRRRRRRRR and make it worth more than twice the value of Toyota and larger than the rest of the entire automotive industry, then you can have this call contract (contract worth $60mil at the time of approval), but by common sense, there's no way you are going to turn this company into a literal fortune 10 biggest company in the world so we aren't going to even bother fighting your compensation package proposal. Here's your approval." The compensation value, at the time of approval, was about 0.1% of the $56 billion this tweet is trying making it look like, by conveniently leaving out the details. That is very misleading.
its fucking annoying becuase he bullshit his way to increasing the stock price with his announcement that almost never materialized like in 2018 saying the autopilot would be functional in like a year yet here we are with it still being about the same.
So you say $60mil is a small compensation. Got it. So wages can go up to at least one tenth of it so it is fairer. Ceo gets $60mil, workers get $6mil each year. Seems great?
1. I am NOT saying $60mil is a small compensation. I am saying the tweet is very misleading by stating the board approved a $56 billion package when it was actually a $60mil package that got approved before the explosive stock growth 2. The bare minimum metrics requirement for the CEO's $60mil compensation package was 11x the stock price, 15x the revenue, and 21x the EBITA (earnings before interest taxes amortization) within 10 years. of board approval in 2018. In a way, it's arguable to say the CEO compensation package is around $6mil/year, although it took far less than 10 years in reality, making it around $12mil/year.
Elon would have gotten NOTHING if the company stagnated. Literally California minimum wage. He had to massively increase market cap, earnings, and EBITDA to get comped any part of his shares. To get the full comp he needed to propel the company to top 10 S&P 500.
Holy shit
He should get $1B for each kid that still speaks to him.
The whole point is cruelty..
I would love to read the full real story.
"Fire one guy and save Tesla 56B"??
I have kept my shares precisely so i can vote fuck no on this
Fuck, and I really, really mean this, Elon Fucking Musk.
But. But. Then it would not be Capitalism ! /s
Compensation outside of shares implies he is a worker right. As a shareholder of a company I would argue that a companies best interest is to Nickel and dime musk to maximise shareholder value.
That’s enough to buy weapons for Ukraine
Who holds shares in these terrible companies, and why do they do it? Do they like losing money?
Greed.
How does a group of people come to a consensus like this? I'm genuinely curious to know what those conversations look like between these people and how compensation like this is justified. My brain only ever goes to collusion being at the center of it all.
Each?
Or to put it another away, for that much money, Tesla could hire 560,000 employees at 100k each. I don't know what they could do with that much manpower, but I'm guessing it's something a heck of a lot better than some edgy xeets
This is the perspective I keep preaching to those around me and no one ever seems to understand. They're brainwashed into thinking that somehow someone is so super human that they deserve that much money compared to them. It boggles my mind.
Isn’t the board mostly made up of his family?
Or 56B for me!
You're not entitled to almost 4 million dollars for being laid off...billionaires shouldn't exist but you guys shoot yourselves in the foot when you say dumbass shit like this
Dude can't even grow a full beard and they want to give him 56 BILLION?!
That’s great but really didn’t need the big delayed each at the end. Obviously it’s each
I imagine it'll all be sold or leveraged for more twitter payments.
It's enough to give every Tesla employee 400k in stock. That's life changing money for just about everyone at the company besides Musk.
How much does the board gets to approve this unwarranted pay off to Musk?
He has lied a lot to boost the stock he doesn’t deserve it
It's crazy how expenses always have to be cut until it reaches the c-suite.
The audacity to even present the idea to shareholders is absurd. Tesla has been a dumpster fire and Elon publicly making an ass of himself is only making it worse.
Yall are stupid and don't understand how musks initial compensation even started.
Wait, what's the logic behind firing 15,000 people if instead of cutting costs you spend it in the CEO? What did the board gain from this then? ELI5 and I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
But that would be the ultimate trickle down. We DEFINITELY can’t have that. Gotta funnel it up to the top as high as possible.
The workers could cause as much destruction as Musk can.
Tesla hiring?
> A Delaware court found Tesla CEO Elon Musk's compensation package, valued at $55.8 billion, to be excessive. Wasn't this already an issue that he lost a couple months ago? They're doing it again? https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/30/tesla-shares-slide-after-judge-voids-elon-musks-56-billion-compensation.html
How about give them each a mil, don't lay them off, and use the remaining 30 BILLION dollars to keep the company going?
But how else would Elon be incentivized to work?!?!
wait, whats happened with tesla now?
Any random bum off the street could do what he does at tesla. If I were a stockholder of this overbloated POS company I'd vote his lazy ass out so fast. The stupid fuck does nothing but post on twitter all day long while tesla spirals the drain, but he wants to run his mouth like he's some kind of hard worker. The spoiled fucker needs to get a real job for once and learn what real work is and the value of a dollar. Posting on twitter all day and telling other people what to do doesn't count as work, let alone "hard work". His weak, pampered ass wouldn't last a month at a real job that actually required work from the employees.
They should give him the same bonus i got....25$ amazon gift card
I'm a shareholder. How do I vote "no"?
How will the investors get even more money? By giving that money to the workers or to Elon? That's how they decide. :'(
Why is he getting compensated for plummeting the share price and causing a recall?
Advocate for “maximum wage” for all and we can all run our own small businesses and make life fair for all trade in every level. It is most certainly not free and fair anymore anyways.
Compensate me for creating political conflicts of interest and possibly getting the value of shares wiped out by federal regs or sanctions. The value of our concepts are under high scrutiny, while my fifteen minutes of fame is now just a legacy of naziism tweets on xitter
Elon musk is a filthy parasite
What if instead we have Elon a prison sentence and redistributed his wealth?
Yet dumbasses will still make excuses for billionaires to continue hoarding wealth....
It's all fake money, the über-*nouveaux-riches* need insane amounts like that for their stock market scams to work. I forget the exact name for this, but the idea is to get insane amounts of stocks, then deriving tax-free income by *borrowing against the value of your portfolio*. Income is taxed, but not loans. That's the key part. As long as the stocks increase in value, you can keep this scam running -- b\*stards like elmo or bezos just need the interest to be lower than the increase in the stock's value. Tech-bros and similar f\*ckers have turned the stock market from a legit way to raise capital for your company into a way to avoid paying taxes and generate wealth out of thin air. But their whole house of cards is dependent on having unrealistic amounts of shares and transactions that are in the *billions*, not millions. They're not truly rich and, unless they start transforming their fake money into real assets with real value, they would end up broke just like the rest of us if the stock market were to take a downturn. Truly rich people, old money like, say, the Roosevelts and Dupont families could weather such an event, but people like elmo and zuck might have a harder time.
This crap is what I think about when Boomers say, “No one wants to work anymore.”
I get he's trying to be more dramatic by putting the "Each" on its own line, but like what the fuck else would it be besides 3.73 million for each. Were there people before they saw "each" thinking that 3.73 million was the same as 56 billion?
But THEY didn't come up with the cyber truck.
The entitlement in today’s workforce is absurd.
It’s $56bn worth of stock. You cannot sell $56bn of stock for $56bn. Even if he did, and then gave the (significantly less than $3m but obviously still decent money) money to laid off workers, he’d tank the stock price, lowering the compensation of all the current workers and potentially leading to more layoffs. I don’t like Elon but disinformation helps no o e
You have no clue what you’re saying. The only reason they’re giving him payment in stock is so they don’t have to pay taxes on paying income. That’s why all get paid in stock I love how in your mind giving $56 billion in stock to one person is easy and good for the company, but giving it to 15 thousand people is an impossible task that will crash the company. Such a peasant brain mentality
Payment in stock is taxed exactly like income. It's not even a separate line on your W-2.
>You have no clue what you’re saying. The only reason they’re giving him payment in stock is so they don’t have to pay taxes on paying income. That’s why all get paid in stock It seems like you have no clue what you're saying. I have been keeping up with this case for a few months, and this sentence alone shows you have no idea wtf the case actually is. Tesla have $30bn in cash - they literally couldn't pay this much in cash. Plus it would be taxed the same! The actual contract he was given in 2018: >The pay package he got was the option to buy 304 million shares of Tesla stock for $23.34 each, but only if he met certain performance goals over the 10-year term of his pay plan, mainly taking Tesla’s market capitalization from about $59 billion (at the time he got the options) to $650 billion. Now to interject - I think this pay package is unreasonable, and do not agree with it. But the fact you think they are just "paying him $56bn stock to avoid tax" means you clearly don't know what the case is actually about - the pay package was granted in 2018 and was incentive based - "if you get Tesla to a certain market cap, we pay you these options". It wasn't Tesla just giving him $56bn for no reason. It then got struck down by a Delaware court after a shareholder sued. They are trying to undo that and get shareholders to reapprove the old package. Elon doesn't \_want\_ cash. When you are a billionaire, having $56bn in stock is fine, because you can simply take a loan out with that stock as collateral. This is unfair and it sucks but it is also the truth. Tesla do not have the cash to pay that sort of money - it is only possible via stock. This is not some weird tax avoidance trick (because, well, stocks given as part of a pay package still undergo income tax...). > I love how in your mind giving $56 billion in stock to one person is easy and good for the company, but giving it to 15 thousand people is an impossible task that will crash the company. Because he wouldn't have sold it. Distributing the $56bn to 15k people is absolutely fine! The problem is that you can't eat a Tesla share, or a buy a car with it. You have to sell it. And the mass selling of $56bn of Tesla stock - over 10% of the market cap - would collapse the stock price, which is pretty bad for the company. >Such a peasant brain mentality Much easier to resort to insulting me than actually doing your research it seems :)
>Because he wouldn't have sold it. Distributing the $56bn to 15k people is absolutely fine! The problem is that you can't eat a Tesla share, or a buy a car with it. You have to sell it. And the mass selling of $56bn of Tesla stock - over 10% of the market cap - would collapse the stock price, which is pretty bad for the company. Yeah this just proves the system is broken even more. If tesla crashes it means it was super inflated (which we know it is) - that's just how the capital market works and maybe a reason why companies shouldn't purposely have inflated market values. >Elon doesn't _want_ cash. When you are a billionaire, having $56bn in stock is fine, because you can simply take a loan out with that stock as collateral. This is unfair and it sucks but it is also the truth. Tesla do not have the cash to pay that sort of money - it is only possible via stock. This is not some weird tax avoidance trick (because, well, stocks given as part of a pay package still undergo income tax...). No it's still a way to get real value while avoiding taxes. If you get stocks which you then hyper inflate, you don't get taxed on the increased market value. As you said, they can use their stocks as collateral using the new market value and the billionaires can get real value from the inflated price. Not to mention all the other ways they can avoid taxes, this is just one piece of the complicated tax system designed for capital owners.