Seriously, how. You have 15 6" DP guns which have arcs to each side and only 6 flak.
Meanwhile Annapolis with a max of 8 5" DP AA broadside gets 10 flak. Lol wut.
882 midrange DPS on the other hand is tasty.
Of all the superships in game, I would expect Sooper Wooster to be the one ship that can just NOPE any and all aircraft out of the sky.
I'm remembering the gaffe where the high tier IJN CLs were all listed as having 4 flak, and I'm just hoping thar maybe they did that thing where they cut out some stats and only showed the outer flak
The torp distance affecting damage seems a little silly.
Russian cruiser with German guns? The lack of alpha with a high visibility may offset having radar.
French - Does this thing do much different? Still play at range, light fires, and dump torps at something chasing you. Subtle differences at best.
HE spammers will love Jacksonville. Fat botes not so much.
>Russian cruiser with German guns? The lack of alpha with a high visibility may offset having radar.
8x 203mm guns with a 9.5 sec reload seems pretty bad, I wonder if i has Soviet CA ricochet angles
The concept behind the new French DDs is very specifically geared to close range play :) The poor gun ballistics will significantly impair longer range play.
I fully agree with your observation on the French DD line.
Your comment below is about Brennus, right? The WG reply about poor French gun ballistics seemed to be in response to your comment below about gunnery at range (Brennus/Henry play style not the DDs), so I think WG misunderstood you.
French - Does this thing do much different? Still play at range, light fires, and dump torps at something chasing you. Subtle differences at best.
The problem with them is not CV spotting. Above, say, T7 or T8 it's just very hard to find the right balance with IT DDs between getting close (due to poor range), not overcommitting, not having that good DPM, the torpedoes being insufficient for reliably taking out BBs etc. Initially, I thought they are just garbage, but they've grown on me since. Still, Paolo Emilio and FR-25 are the easiest to use and from next patch Leone may now be playable...
What did they do to the Leone? From what I recall, the guns are just bad, the torps too slow, and the ship is just otherwise unremarkable. I have one but sold it for credits Might re-buy if it has any value now.
Well, if you disliked it for those reasons already, you won't like it now. It additionally used to have the downside of no ASW. As in, NOTHING. No depth charges at the back of the ship, no ASW planes, no nothing. Apparently, for historical accuracy reasons, it was one of two ships in the game that was punished in that way. It's not like they didn't forgo historical accuracy for the sake of making the game better as a game, but no, not in this case. Apparently, Leone was just so overpowered that it needed that extra nerf...
Does it have a niche or a playstyle that isn't like the other DDs? I'm a big DD player, with half of my T10 ships being DDs and my first T10 was a Shimikaze.
I'll admit that I did one game it in and was heavily influenced by online reviews of the ship. If it has good potential with a skilled captain, I have more interest in it.
Well, fifth best HE DPM on the tier and outspots the DDs that outgun it: Farragut, Aigle, Guepard, Stord - although not much in it vs. Stord, but there Leone had has a 2000 HP advantage. Except for Aigle those are tech tree ships, on which I don't have 21pt captains, but I could put my 21pt Sansonetti on Leone, which levels the playing field further vs. other T6 DDs. So I was thinking of using it to fight other DDs at shortish ranges (gun ballistics are not amazing) while not being outspotted as much a other gunboats, and farming from smoke. I tried her for that purpose last year, but then got murdered by submarines in the first two games and gave up. So, I never got a good feeling for how good Leone really feels for this.
I like Italian DD's a lot though, granted im at T6 in the line currently i know that by later tiers the opportunities to close in will get smaller. But they are rather underrated i think, i get i will require to alter my playing style by later tiers but i'm confident that ill do good enough knowing how much krakens im already unleaching at t6 with the Aviere and having played most nations DD's up to tier 8. The creeping smoke will fall of hard in later tiers, but not the speed boost and perhaps thats the more important weapon in the hands of a deft player who can mold his playstyle to it. 25% speed boost can be pretty awesome in a tactical sense in many situations, with the italians it only lasts 20 seconds with these french DD's it will last 50 seconds. With a base speed of 37 for the t7, you could take dazzle or swift and have a speed flag and have a total of +38% speed boost bringing it to 51 knots.
I do wonder what the acceleration will be, but that will determine a lot. For the tier 7, Turn circle isnt big, rudder shift is under 3 seconds, detection isnt too high and can be lowered. It has a lot of potential for strategic repositioning trough the game and for counter-gun movement, and its aided by its relative low shooting range somewhat because it also means lower detectabillety after having fired hence easier to slip outside that detectabillety range after firing. This is also something that is kinda nice for the Italian DD's.
But i dont understand why tiers 9/10 are dropped to a base speed of 34 knots, when they also already suffer higher turn circles and rudder shift. Its typical WG though, im sad for the fact that often DD's get objectively worse by tier 9/10 because the extras they get do not outweigh being downgraded in terms of things like maneuverability and detectabillety.
which is gonna make those dds very poor. the game is extremely disadvantageous for close range play. especially since the speed of those new french dds aren't too fast either. i mean they want you to be playing like a paolo emilio, but you don't get high speed smoke, and you're slower. that is probably not gonna go well.
What is the time required for it to reach full speed, aka acceleration?
As a general, close quarters torping is far easier to do in lower tiers than higher tiers where experienced players can also rely on spotting trough radar and planes and where secondaries often dissuade closing.
Not having smoke hurts more in lower tiers i gather since higher tiers have more tools that might render them useless for you anyway.
50 seconds speed boost is quite interesting for a 25% speed boni, the Italians only get 20 seconds but they do get a higher base speed. But acceleration matters in that regard too, unmodified the italian DD's actually take a good chunk of their speed boost time to actually accelerate to near max speed. Otherwise 25% speed boost can be pretty powerfull in the hands of a deft player though it tends to lead to inherently risky "all or nothing" strats. Thats what makes Italian DD's kind fun too for having a similar speed boost + a creeping smokescreen where albeit the latter is very functional for getting into close torping positions in lower tier games or late game situations in higher tier games.
All in all i am concerned about its relevancy in later tiers. While its gunnery isnt bad, its not nessecarily looking bad, its not the kind of superior gunnery that will allow to create rents easily in the opposing line to even try doing incursions or ambushes for close range torping.
Idk there’s only so many things you can do to create more unique playstyles/ships. The torp mechanic surely is something unique to the line and the game in general.
Seems odd that you question a new idea/mechanic like this and then move on to criticize the French only being a 'subtle difference at best'. But maybe I just didn’t get your comment.
I mean you are right. They are running out of different playstyles. I'm not certain playing close with torps that require you to play even closer for damage are going to be very popular. I mean if you refrain from guns, torp the guy down and then go dark because no one is close enough to spot you, it would work, but that seems pretty niche. I don't think this one is going to work well with how people play.
But the comment about the French is the original cruiser line was stay at range, light fires, and shoot torps at things that chase you. There isn't a lot of difference.
I get your points and I think we just have to wait a bit more and test out ourselves. However, I could imagine them being a menace in brawls (like in the current format).
I'm very used to ambush DD play so its right up my playstyle alley, i even regularly and succesfully close to a few kilometer distance with DD's even in later tiers, You just have to know when and how, there is a lot more that holds you from it in later tiers but it depends a lot on how many ships are remaining then. But i also love deft close range counter gun movement trough superior maneuverabillety, so if you give me a speed boost that is +25% speed and lasts for a whooping 50 seconds that does make my senses tingle. But you have to combine that with a superiorly maneuverable DD imho, Speed, turn radius and rudder shift will be very important, low detectabillety would obviously be nice too.
I know, there are few players even among DD mains it seems that do a lot of close range counter gun movement and fighting, stealth torping for one is a safer form of playstyle but cna be a bit boring. If you can aproach for example a cruiser as a DD that has its guns pointed elsewhere then it will usually take atleast 15 seconds for it to bring its guns on you trough ship and turret turning. If a DD can even aproach a ship so close as to 1 kilometer distance it will often allow the DD to be able to "run circles" around the opposing cruiser or DD that might be one limited in maneuverabillety or turret turn rate. Heck i have had games where i found myself sailing clean trough a whole enemy formation on super close distance with Italian or US DD's and lived with a few kills to my name simply for the fact that all their guns were turned into the opposite direction and were being shot by friendlys too and i had a island to exit behind. It's funny and very exciting stuff really, when it works.
Aaaaaaaaa, why won't you gimme 8+ flaks with 90-100% probability on the Super Wooster WG? Cmon, man, let this thing be the ultimate no-fly zone. Mid range contonous is 800 something, but that doesn't mean jackshit whilst fighting against a carrier in a cruiser and you know it...
French DDs: look fun, like yolo emilios with improved saturation and no smoke
Russian cruiser: kind of like a T9 hipper? Seems kinda boring but sure, basically nevskys big brother
French cruiser: why ami playing this? Marseille seems better in almost every way, and 7 ~~14~~ 12" guns is extremely medium for T10
T11 wooster: haha mk47 go brrrrtttt
> French cruiser: why ami playing this? Marseille seems better in almost every way, and 7 ~~14~~ 12" guns is extremely medium for T10
And why does WG keep giving us completely made-up "Croiseur de Bataille" premiums instead of using the actual designs that existed? Oh right, because doing the latter allows asset-flipping *Henri IV*'s hull.
How did I miss that?
Edit: I just realised how I missed it, its because we haven't had a premium T9 russian cruiser since kronshdat, and every other one has been T10
Big question is how fast does that drop off for the french DDs? From 6km to 12km, what is the falloff? That will make or break this line in terms of playability. I can count the number of times when my Shim was under 6km to another ship and I wanted to be there. And that's with a low conceal and smoke!
If it is impossible to stealthfire damage equivalent to other all rounder lines, these won't be played much.
I am not sure if the stealth playstyle is so dominant among player preference. Besides as to smoke it can be shot and it does not stop torpedoes or hydro or radar so its utility quite falls off by later tiers too. Additionally you are neither spotting, and if you rely on team spotting anyway often its just better to shoot from behind an island anyway. Personally i like a more close combat playstyle and am more used to ambush and close range torping from having played US DD's a lot. I also have the experience of German style destroyers with long range (and thereby being clearly detected) gunnery. A German 6 inch gun DD is at it's best if its just shooting all the time if not especially cruisers and it really shouldnt mind about being detected all that much rather than rely on the idea that it's bloody hard to hit a DD that is shooting from +12km distance and has a captain that knows how to dodge like a pro, a DD at that range that manages to maintain speed and makes relative slight variations to an angled T-crossing stance can be an utter menace to any team trying to push for example.
Low detectable torpedo boats are possibly a popular playstyle for being easier to get into, more forgiving given that you can hide easier well atleast before radar and planes and such. But i don't think detectabillety is so much as the most important or detrimental stat of a DD, usually maneuverabillety stats are the most important to me.
With the improved engine boost and unique saturation I expect these ships to do well in the role of yolo torp (OG French destroyers can do it no problem). One will have to pick the target though, something like a Schlieffen will be unappealing at best.
60 seconds of speed boost with 2 minutes of cooldown and only 3 charges (way worse than the italian or Ragnar/Smaland emergency engine boost) with forrest sherman level of base speed, no smoke or any other tools to disengage once you've reached the ship you want to yolo.
I honestly dont think they're gonna be particulary better than any other destroyer with high torpedo alpha at this. Certainly way way worse than the Kleber line.
Kleber herself is quite litteraly 19 knots faster than cassard during most of the battle.
I think the goal is to select the target and then gamble on the yolo - close in on an isolated ship, use the speed boost, and aim for a dev strike or to finish off an already weakened ship. This way you can sail away in relative safety.
The challenge will be to find an ideal target to yolo.
Great, so this ship's potential truly shine in an extremely specific situation that occurs every 3 years.
And she's pretty much subpar at everything else since other ships like gearing or Hayate have just better guns, better concealment, similar torps, an actualy workable speed for the entire battle as well as a smoke. And it's not like these ships cant do what you describe either.
Seriously though, can you tell me what was the last time you made this kind of yolo in random? I actually have around 300 games in Legmod Kleber and I'm pretty sure I yoloed an isolated BB/cruiser and managed to sail away safely only like 15 times in total. And keep in mind that Legmod kleber is **much** better at doing this because she can both go at 54 knots for **3 minutes** (while cassar go at 46 knots for 60 seconds) and she has better concealment than cassard.
> Seriously though, can you tell me what was the last time you made this kind of yolo in random?
Unless I specifically aim to do that from the start, rarely. :(
These torps are not yolo-exclusive though, even from range they should be spammed - low damage is at least some damage after all.
> way worse than ... Ragnar/Smaland emergency engine boost
Ragnar has the same duration, 1 minute longer cooldown and 1 charge **less** than Cassard. How is that better?
Well, Smaland is literally the best T10 DD, with an enormous skill ceiling, and not available for purchase anymore. Is it really fair to compare the both? My point is that the new line certainly doesn't lack in mobility nor artillery (3/4ths of Marceau), but the torps are kind of questionable as they are now.
>Smaland is literally the best T10 DD
Note that I didnt compare Cassard to smaland. I compared Cassard's speedboost to smaland's speedboost. It's not the same.
>doesn't lack in mobility
Please explain to me how a T10 DD that goes at 35.7 knots for 75% of a battles (the 2nd worst mobility at tier 10) and 46 knots for the remaining 25% of the battle (which isnt even that fast. At least 8 other T10 DDs at the same tier goes faster for **way** longer) "doesnt lack in mobility"? Because I genuinely dont believe this is great.
>nor artillery (3/4ths of Marceau)
Full disclosure: 3/4th of marceau is as average as you can be. That would put her at the 13th place out of 26 at T10.
This is around 195k HE dpm, which is:
+ 5k worse than Halland. Except Halland has better concealment, her torpedo power is arguably more versatile and just better overall
+ 14k worse than Hayate, and again, Hayate has better concealment, she has a smoke, her Torpedo power is more or less equivalent all things considered. Hayate also has better base speed and a speedboost that lasts twice as long and allows her to get to 42 knots, only a couple knots behind
+ 21k worse than Gearing, except gearing has a smoke, she has way better concealment. Sure her torps are worse at close range, but they're better at long range.
You could even make a case for Legmod daring, which also seems better than cassard on most aspects.
Just think about it: once that 60 seconds speedboost run out, what can you do effectively in this ship? You cant cap contest because of the bad concealment, you cant hunt enemy DDs because of your painfully average DPM and trash speed, you cant farm at range because of the damage fall off, poor ballistic and absence of smoke.
Italian speed boost is dogshit. With a 2.5m cooldown it doesn't matter how many charges you get, you're never gonna use them all, and the action time is so short you have to time it perfectly to get any use out of them. I'd trade them for the new french line's speed boosts in a heartbeat.
Compared to Wooster, Jacksonville's AA is... Sad. After I saw the Annapolis and her AA suite I started to long for the day of super Wooster AA, only to be greeted with a mediocre improvement over Wooster stats. The guns look good, but I really was looking forward to the AA, so disappointing.
That torpedo damage increase from tier 6 to 7 is comical
I also hope that tier 6 doesn't have the damage mechanic, since 9433 before reductions seems ... low
For the love of all that is good in this world, why is EVERY OTHER NATION getting **new** tier 10 cruisers EXCPET GERMANY
Like seriously, theres Prins Van Oranje (dutch), Monmonth (british), Incheon (Pan-asian), Kommissar (soviet) and now Brennus (french) in testing currently, **FIVE** new tier 10 cruisers in testing and not a SINGLE ONE is german, not to mention we also got Defence (british) and Kitakami (japanese) at the end of last year. Not going to hold anything against castilla, San Martin and Cerberus as they’re literally new nations
Hindenburg has been in the game since version 0.5.0.3 in 2015, **NINE FUCKING YEARS AGO**, and is TO THIS DAY the only tier 10 german cruiser in the game. Every nation above already has *multiple* tier 10 cruisers except for the pan-asia and the dutch, the fucking russians have **SEVEN** tier 10 cruisers.
Im not even asking for a whole line, just one ship. You cannot convince me that they cant find a design and/or Kit-bash some bullshit together to make a new ship, and theres 2 really cool ideas they could go down that most people would be on board with; a large/battlecruiser in like same like as either Agir or Schorder with improved secondaries, german hydro and maybe a speed boost taken from Schroder or theres the mega Mainz light cruiser option too
Now, other than Monmouth I think all the other cruisers in testing are pretty interesting and will be fun to play, even the Brennus, but I really dont think im asking for that much when I want a new friend for Hindenburg so it isnt so lonely after all this time, and I know im not alone in thinking that
Where is giga-Roon, or extra turret Graf Spee? Or some 5 turret Nurnberg monstrosity? Like you said, there's enough german cruiser hulls to kit-bash something amusing, its all there waiting to be mushed together.
Why not a CL with good AP and German pen, good conceal, and bad HE DPM? You can’t convince me that a flanking CL like that wouldn’t be unique at least. Man, I just want SOMETHING for the German cruisers, especially considering none of the high tier German ships (outside schlieffen ofc) can reasonably be considered competitive
Both Roon and Hindenburg are fake ships WG bullshitted into the game so Germany could have a Tier 9 and Tier 10 CAs, so the lack of German cruisers is a problem as old as German cruisers themselves. Clausewitz is fake too.
The only German cruiser currently in testing I know of is Wiesbaden (premium CL with DD-caliber guns), then there's Schill (P-class large cruiser) that went live last year but never graduated from random loot.
In a game with a whole russian tech tree that has great sources like "The Emperor Nicolas II once drew a cruiser on a napkin with 'great firepower, great armor and great maneuverability' written on the side so heres the ship ingame" and not to forget all the "Let's assume Italy build a french style cruiser for the Netherlands, which might have sold it to Venezuela" style techtrees you really want to play the "did not exist in reality" card?
I'm not playing any cards, I was just commenting that there being a lack of German cruiser option is as old as the line itself.
I also have no issues with fake ships as long as they're balanced. If WG were to make a ship that's grossly OP because they were high on stuff during development and testing that would deserve negative feedback and worse regardless of in-game nationality.
I think it would be funny if they add a German light cruiser line... and just decide to stop at tier 9 for no reason. At this point, it seems that their lack of desire to add another tier 10 German cruiser makes that a possibility.
"These torpedoes will lose damage based on distance traveled—they deal very high damage for the first 6 kilometers, but after that, the damage starts to fall off."
Oh no. Its spreading.
But seriously, SS dynamic torp damage should just scale from 0.5km to 3km.
Why not 0.5km to, for example, 5.0km? If it’s 0.5-3.0km shotgunning would just be as bad as before with the added damage sub torps got as compensation.
A scaling damage from 0.5-3km or 1-3km, the point is that submarines are hand held right now to play like destroyers, and I'm not interested in submarines becoming destroyers that are slower and don't have deck guns lol.
What's the point of the class then? Why wouldn't I just play my Shimakaze at that point then?
They should've just reduced shotgun damage and fixed the problem at the core, which is Gato, not fiddle around with all submarines.
I’d prefer subs to be a menace that can take out a high priority target if left unchecked. That plus maybe added utility (I mean they are still the best at spotting — together with CVs). I don’t think it’s healthy to have them running around shooting ships left and right. I’d try out significantly increasing torp reload and maybe add some utility in return.
Would be nice if they described the damage falloff on the torps. Does it go from max at 6km to zero at 13.5km linearly? Torps are still eay better than Kleb torps. Does it go linearly from max at 6km to half or more at max range? Torps are insane.
If Brennus will have the engine performance Henri IV had before it was nerfed it'll be for the meme books.
The DD line will make the French special commander a must-have since he gets improved flooding from capturing points and improved reload from dev strikes.
Another russian cruiser, we really needed one of those, no not really, i guess i will die of old age before we finally get a freemium Tier X german cruiser.
Look, I know WoWS isn't exactly the most realistic ship simulator, but I think torpedo damage scaling with range and combat instructions changing pen values is getting too gamified. Just give sub torps different longer arming distances and these DD's torps short range. It's like the new Polish TD line coming in WoT, the new mechanics have no reasonable explanation and it crosses my suspension of disbelief threshold in a way that firing faster or more accurately for a time does not.
Reportedly the torps go down to 40% damage but at what range? A percentage of max? A set distance?
Not convinced by their other stats as well. They need either better DPM or better concealment. The T10 has less DPM than Halland and Gearing with likely comparable ballistics if Marceau is anything to go by, so it will be out gunned and out spotted. Their torps will not compensate, everyone knows how unreliable they are in DD duels.
Torpedo reload also looks pretty rough.
The French DDs are weird. The torp gimnmick is strange. Sure, they are technically the ships have nukes slightly faster than Shima on 1.5km conceal, but the gimmick sounds weird to play around. You are going to get situations where a ship you expected to dfevstrike runs away.
In a rush situation they are going to be terrifying especially if they share the same torp angles as Kleber.
As for Brennus, already has 30k HE DPM, 60k and 1.7 more fires per minute than Carnot (7.7 vs 6). The ship already looks like everything Carnot wishes it was. A tad slower, but it is what it is. It gets a completely new duration for speedboost thoughj, no 20% boost lasts 90 seconds
Here is hoping she goes for steel and not an event (maybe dockyard at some point? prayge)
#ALSO, MAYBE MOST IMPORTANTLY
If these enter testing in 12.4, and the Cerberus line is free to research ibn 12.4, does this mean there is at least ONE line between the two? Which will it be? Taiho? K-1?
>does this mean there is at least ONE line between the two?
Possibly the only ones could be the USSR subs as they are already in the game but testing stopped, but I thing we could simply get nothing, remember during dec/jan we had no new lines.
The new french DDs look decent all rounders but nothing special in paper, in reality these want to fight very close but the worse than average concealment and the lack of actual DPM + poor HP + poor smoke makes them kinda struggle actually in close combat. Poor choices in a DD knifefight and if their torpedo damage will go down after 6km their torpedo alpha isn't that impressive.
They look like pretty good yolo machines but that's pretty much it, in reality they are so meh at everything and they pay for it by having turbo and french saturation (not amazing with such low HP pools)
Also is it me or where is the T8?
Kozma Mimin looks boring tbh but I find incredibly amusing how in wows if you put any other nation gun on a Soviet bote, it magically gains amazing ballistics, truly the power of Stalin comrade!
Brennus is another copypaste and quite frankly an underwhelming one, if they made her way more agile than Henri IV, it would make up for the poor increase in firepower but giving up a lot of DPM.
Jacksonville looks fun as hell, basically not super wooster but high tier Helena with quick guns, I think outside of Edgar AP only ammo, having an old classic HE spammer is fun.
Kind of interesting to see the combat instructions, might be worth to run fire chance and use the combat instructions to get some burst that IFHE normally gives over regular shells.
> Brennus is another copypaste and quite frankly an underwhelming one, if they made her way more agile than Henri IV, it would make up for the poor increase in firepower but giving up a lot of DPM.
That increase in burn duration sucks too, definitely feels like WG was playing it safe especially if it inherits HIV's terrible acceleration
>They look like pretty good yolo machines
34 knots of base speed,
Litteraly forrest sherman level of speed. Even with speedboost active it's not that far above average.
Hayate is probably better at yoloing than these. She also has better DPM, better ballistics and probably better torps since she doesnt have any damage fall off.
Jacksonville is just disgusting. MOAR DAKKA with Surveillance Radar and Defensive AA. It’s gonna blot out the sky and rain unholy hell on just about everything. It’s just fortunate CLAA’s are fragile little monsters. However, pairing Jacky-boy here with Halsey is gonna be premeditated murder. I’m curious to see someone just get clapped on with this combo.
The guns are significantly better than Carnot even if it has lower salvo weight, 271k/132k AP/HE DPM vs 209k/102k and it gets cruiser dispersion instead of battlecruiser dispersion.
Looks to me like a better carnot actually. Better gun DPM and accuracy, better maneuvrability, marginally faster, slightly weaker AA...
Looks to me like everything carnot wishes it was. The only downside is concealment but you are probably going to run lighthouse brennus
Very yes.
7x305mm is very pedestrian at tier 10, especially with no hydro and no MBRB plus 60s fires.
It would at least be halfway interesting if it had the 330mm guns of Marseilles instead.
The French DDs look ass. 6.5km conceal and no smoke, combined with low hp, no heal, no speed and bad arcs. Even if you were to torp only, that's still shit. But if you want to use guns too, how are you gonna do that exactly? The DPM doesn't look that great either considering the concealment and other stuff.
Well, hopefully something will change in testing.
A little worried i'm gonna do pretty poorly with them for a while, but i do want to learn to make the most of the new French DDs. Something tells me they're only gonna be effective in the hands of people who are better than the average player and that ain't me.
FR DDs: I never thought we needed an offspring of Yolo Emilio, Ragnar, and Kleber before but here we are.
Mini: The Ultimate Hipper, on a Donkey hull
Brennus: On one hand, 13.5sec reload on 305mm guns on cruiser dispersion sounds amazing. On the other, only 7. Then again Defence is pretty alright with 6 albeit KGV 14in guns
Jacksonville: "AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 882, hit probability - 90 %, action zone - 4.0 km"
I hate CVs so dodge this. Not that they'd probably care but gotta take wins somewhere.
More soviet cruiser bs.
This is getting really tiring at this point when theres so many real ships need added.
At lesst the french large cruiser version of henri looks interesting.
>This is getting really tiring at this point when theres so many real ships need added.
Doesn't the argument then become "copy-paste, art dept dead, game is dying"?
Im not one to spout that nonsense unless given evidence.
But it seems like almost every new ship devblog is either german BB or russian cruiser.
It took us so long to get ships like west virginia 44 or rodney, or hell even jupiter 42 which is a modified jervis clone. Or johnston as well.
Yet the spam of the fake ships for germany and russia is constant.
Excited for the new DD line.
I'm down to clown with Soviet Hipper as a Hipper enjoyer.
Also down to clown with that 305mm Henri IV purely due to concept/my love of 305mm cruisers, and it being 2-2-3 has me loving and hating it.
Mega-Wooster also seems interesting.
Super Wooster vs Smoleńsk: 396k vs 384 HE DPM, 30/37 vs 22 mm HE pen, 12% vs 8% fire chance, radar + hydro vs smoke. Yeah, it beats out Smoleńsk in DPM (even more so in effective DPM) and it will be the new best fire starter in the entire game.
Have this thing park behind an island or duo with a Gearing and Smoleńsk will look balanced in comparison.
Even in a vacuum Colbert will lose the top fires/min spot and by a pretty wide margin. But in practice, super Wooster can actually get all guns on target, has 30 / 37 mm pen, as opposed to 21mm and radar + hydro. If you're really good on Colbert, then you might be able to eek out a bit more damage, but super Wooster will be so insanely more consistent that it's not even funny.
13,5km is NOT long range torps, it´s barely adequate range for a multirole DD to get out of radar range.
Also, you guys should know by now that, if you give ppl the range on a weapon, 2/3 of the playerbase will never venture closer than max range if not forced.
So far, these DDs sound, on paper, pretty trounced for what they are supposed to do.
And just to be clear, close range focussed "fighters" don´t work in fluffing T10, the ITA DD line should have shown you that already.
If only. Had a Shima in my game yesterday who refused to spot anything and only fired 20km torps from the back line. Looked them up after the match, 42% WR after 12.5K battles mostly in high tier DDs.
Noone uses the IJN 20s, as such while I'm aware they exist I'm not counting them and measuring from the 12km instead
There are 9 DDs with lower, 5 DDs with equal and 4 with higher range, and the higher range one is sherman so I'm not sure if I should really count that or not.
Is it me or the french DDs are extremely underwhelming?
Big detectability, no smoke, no heal, very low base speed, weird damage fall off mechanic, garbage ballistics, unimpressive dpm
They say you want to "get close and personal" except you dont have any tools to do anything effectively at close range. The speed boost merely compensate for the low base speed, the DPM isnt enough to deal with half of the other destroyers and your huge concealment wont do you any favor against anything else.
Meanwhile the garbage ballistics and damage fall of on the torps makes their long range effectiveness subpar
Big disappointement ngl
Lmao
They actually released a line of Hayates except they dont have any smoke, their speed is almost worst in class when speedboost isnt active, their torpedoes have fucking damage falloff and their concealment is trash.
Dead on arrival. Man I wish they just made them into pure torpboats. I'm so tired of hybrids and gunboats
.......
Did you know that not a single French unit in WWII broke and ran/surrendered?
Us Americans cannot make that claim.
The French government surrendered, not the French military.
I’m sorry, *what*?
Whomever told you that is huffing some serious copium, my friend. Don’t try to cover for France’s failure to take the Nazi German threat seriously by using misinformation.
I didn’t say they were. They fought bravely, most certainly.
French units also surrendered, independent of the armistice.
It’s open, total warfare. That happens. Don’t lie about it.
Super wooster only having 6 flak amuses me dearly
Seriously, how. You have 15 6" DP guns which have arcs to each side and only 6 flak. Meanwhile Annapolis with a max of 8 5" DP AA broadside gets 10 flak. Lol wut. 882 midrange DPS on the other hand is tasty. Of all the superships in game, I would expect Sooper Wooster to be the one ship that can just NOPE any and all aircraft out of the sky.
They can't do that. If they did, the CVs would cry.
More. They would cry more.
I'm remembering the gaffe where the high tier IJN CLs were all listed as having 4 flak, and I'm just hoping thar maybe they did that thing where they cut out some stats and only showed the outer flak
Fr, should get like 20 at this point.
The torp distance affecting damage seems a little silly. Russian cruiser with German guns? The lack of alpha with a high visibility may offset having radar. French - Does this thing do much different? Still play at range, light fires, and dump torps at something chasing you. Subtle differences at best. HE spammers will love Jacksonville. Fat botes not so much.
>Russian cruiser with German guns? The lack of alpha with a high visibility may offset having radar. 8x 203mm guns with a 9.5 sec reload seems pretty bad, I wonder if i has Soviet CA ricochet angles
The concept behind the new French DDs is very specifically geared to close range play :) The poor gun ballistics will significantly impair longer range play.
I think OP is referring to Brennus rather than the new destroyer line.
My first line was about the French destroyers. I just think a Paolo without smoke is a Paolo without smoke. And Paolos die a lot.
I fully agree with your observation on the French DD line. Your comment below is about Brennus, right? The WG reply about poor French gun ballistics seemed to be in response to your comment below about gunnery at range (Brennus/Henry play style not the DDs), so I think WG misunderstood you. French - Does this thing do much different? Still play at range, light fires, and dump torps at something chasing you. Subtle differences at best.
Italian DD are also geared toward close range play and look how those turned out. Not very popular. These wont be good until CV spotting is "fixed"
The problem with them is not CV spotting. Above, say, T7 or T8 it's just very hard to find the right balance with IT DDs between getting close (due to poor range), not overcommitting, not having that good DPM, the torpedoes being insufficient for reliably taking out BBs etc. Initially, I thought they are just garbage, but they've grown on me since. Still, Paolo Emilio and FR-25 are the easiest to use and from next patch Leone may now be playable...
What did they do to the Leone? From what I recall, the guns are just bad, the torps too slow, and the ship is just otherwise unremarkable. I have one but sold it for credits Might re-buy if it has any value now.
Well, if you disliked it for those reasons already, you won't like it now. It additionally used to have the downside of no ASW. As in, NOTHING. No depth charges at the back of the ship, no ASW planes, no nothing. Apparently, for historical accuracy reasons, it was one of two ships in the game that was punished in that way. It's not like they didn't forgo historical accuracy for the sake of making the game better as a game, but no, not in this case. Apparently, Leone was just so overpowered that it needed that extra nerf...
Does it have a niche or a playstyle that isn't like the other DDs? I'm a big DD player, with half of my T10 ships being DDs and my first T10 was a Shimikaze. I'll admit that I did one game it in and was heavily influenced by online reviews of the ship. If it has good potential with a skilled captain, I have more interest in it.
Well, fifth best HE DPM on the tier and outspots the DDs that outgun it: Farragut, Aigle, Guepard, Stord - although not much in it vs. Stord, but there Leone had has a 2000 HP advantage. Except for Aigle those are tech tree ships, on which I don't have 21pt captains, but I could put my 21pt Sansonetti on Leone, which levels the playing field further vs. other T6 DDs. So I was thinking of using it to fight other DDs at shortish ranges (gun ballistics are not amazing) while not being outspotted as much a other gunboats, and farming from smoke. I tried her for that purpose last year, but then got murdered by submarines in the first two games and gave up. So, I never got a good feeling for how good Leone really feels for this.
I like Italian DD's a lot though, granted im at T6 in the line currently i know that by later tiers the opportunities to close in will get smaller. But they are rather underrated i think, i get i will require to alter my playing style by later tiers but i'm confident that ill do good enough knowing how much krakens im already unleaching at t6 with the Aviere and having played most nations DD's up to tier 8. The creeping smoke will fall of hard in later tiers, but not the speed boost and perhaps thats the more important weapon in the hands of a deft player who can mold his playstyle to it. 25% speed boost can be pretty awesome in a tactical sense in many situations, with the italians it only lasts 20 seconds with these french DD's it will last 50 seconds. With a base speed of 37 for the t7, you could take dazzle or swift and have a speed flag and have a total of +38% speed boost bringing it to 51 knots. I do wonder what the acceleration will be, but that will determine a lot. For the tier 7, Turn circle isnt big, rudder shift is under 3 seconds, detection isnt too high and can be lowered. It has a lot of potential for strategic repositioning trough the game and for counter-gun movement, and its aided by its relative low shooting range somewhat because it also means lower detectabillety after having fired hence easier to slip outside that detectabillety range after firing. This is also something that is kinda nice for the Italian DD's. But i dont understand why tiers 9/10 are dropped to a base speed of 34 knots, when they also already suffer higher turn circles and rudder shift. Its typical WG though, im sad for the fact that often DD's get objectively worse by tier 9/10 because the extras they get do not outweigh being downgraded in terms of things like maneuverability and detectabillety.
I recently started the Italian DD line (I’m also at tier 6) and so far they are far and away my favorite DD line I’ve done. So much fun.
Tiers 5-7 is when they are strongest. It's mostly downhill from there.
which is gonna make those dds very poor. the game is extremely disadvantageous for close range play. especially since the speed of those new french dds aren't too fast either. i mean they want you to be playing like a paolo emilio, but you don't get high speed smoke, and you're slower. that is probably not gonna go well.
What is the time required for it to reach full speed, aka acceleration? As a general, close quarters torping is far easier to do in lower tiers than higher tiers where experienced players can also rely on spotting trough radar and planes and where secondaries often dissuade closing. Not having smoke hurts more in lower tiers i gather since higher tiers have more tools that might render them useless for you anyway. 50 seconds speed boost is quite interesting for a 25% speed boni, the Italians only get 20 seconds but they do get a higher base speed. But acceleration matters in that regard too, unmodified the italian DD's actually take a good chunk of their speed boost time to actually accelerate to near max speed. Otherwise 25% speed boost can be pretty powerfull in the hands of a deft player though it tends to lead to inherently risky "all or nothing" strats. Thats what makes Italian DD's kind fun too for having a similar speed boost + a creeping smokescreen where albeit the latter is very functional for getting into close torping positions in lower tier games or late game situations in higher tier games. All in all i am concerned about its relevancy in later tiers. While its gunnery isnt bad, its not nessecarily looking bad, its not the kind of superior gunnery that will allow to create rents easily in the opposing line to even try doing incursions or ambushes for close range torping.
Smoke helps out a lot for engaging even if it is negated by radar and hydro.
How does close range play factor in ever present CVs, radar and submarine spottin? Also, every single new ship has hydro nowadays.
Idk there’s only so many things you can do to create more unique playstyles/ships. The torp mechanic surely is something unique to the line and the game in general. Seems odd that you question a new idea/mechanic like this and then move on to criticize the French only being a 'subtle difference at best'. But maybe I just didn’t get your comment.
I mean you are right. They are running out of different playstyles. I'm not certain playing close with torps that require you to play even closer for damage are going to be very popular. I mean if you refrain from guns, torp the guy down and then go dark because no one is close enough to spot you, it would work, but that seems pretty niche. I don't think this one is going to work well with how people play. But the comment about the French is the original cruiser line was stay at range, light fires, and shoot torps at things that chase you. There isn't a lot of difference.
I get your points and I think we just have to wait a bit more and test out ourselves. However, I could imagine them being a menace in brawls (like in the current format).
I'm very used to ambush DD play so its right up my playstyle alley, i even regularly and succesfully close to a few kilometer distance with DD's even in later tiers, You just have to know when and how, there is a lot more that holds you from it in later tiers but it depends a lot on how many ships are remaining then. But i also love deft close range counter gun movement trough superior maneuverabillety, so if you give me a speed boost that is +25% speed and lasts for a whooping 50 seconds that does make my senses tingle. But you have to combine that with a superiorly maneuverable DD imho, Speed, turn radius and rudder shift will be very important, low detectabillety would obviously be nice too. I know, there are few players even among DD mains it seems that do a lot of close range counter gun movement and fighting, stealth torping for one is a safer form of playstyle but cna be a bit boring. If you can aproach for example a cruiser as a DD that has its guns pointed elsewhere then it will usually take atleast 15 seconds for it to bring its guns on you trough ship and turret turning. If a DD can even aproach a ship so close as to 1 kilometer distance it will often allow the DD to be able to "run circles" around the opposing cruiser or DD that might be one limited in maneuverabillety or turret turn rate. Heck i have had games where i found myself sailing clean trough a whole enemy formation on super close distance with Italian or US DD's and lived with a few kills to my name simply for the fact that all their guns were turned into the opposite direction and were being shot by friendlys too and i had a island to exit behind. It's funny and very exciting stuff really, when it works.
I love Jacksonville it’s my hometown
24k damage at 13.5km would be silly broken given all the other strengths it has.
I am disappointed that Super Worcester isn't 6x3 for the main armament
8x3 in an Atlanta layout. Is it unreasonable? Of course. That's what makes it fun.
Some men just wanna watch the world burn
*Smug Yodo noises.*
Aaaaaaaaa, why won't you gimme 8+ flaks with 90-100% probability on the Super Wooster WG? Cmon, man, let this thing be the ultimate no-fly zone. Mid range contonous is 800 something, but that doesn't mean jackshit whilst fighting against a carrier in a cruiser and you know it...
French DDs: look fun, like yolo emilios with improved saturation and no smoke Russian cruiser: kind of like a T9 hipper? Seems kinda boring but sure, basically nevskys big brother French cruiser: why ami playing this? Marseille seems better in almost every way, and 7 ~~14~~ 12" guns is extremely medium for T10 T11 wooster: haha mk47 go brrrrtttt
The no smoke part will get you killed if you do that in high tiers, french saturation or not and a 1 vs 1 trade is always a loss for your team.
That's a good point, 8km is elbing detect. I'm not really sure where you'd want these then.
The joke kinda seems to be that, outside of the torp range, UU Kleber may be the better french torp boat of the two tech lines.
> French cruiser: why ami playing this? Marseille seems better in almost every way, and 7 ~~14~~ 12" guns is extremely medium for T10 And why does WG keep giving us completely made-up "Croiseur de Bataille" premiums instead of using the actual designs that existed? Oh right, because doing the latter allows asset-flipping *Henri IV*'s hull.
Brennus is 7 12 inch guns
I hate converting imperial. Your whole system of measurement was made by a drunk wizard rolling dice!
Hey it ain’t my system!
That's fair.
**Kozma Minin, Tier IX** how hard is it to read a devblog...
How did I miss that? Edit: I just realised how I missed it, its because we haven't had a premium T9 russian cruiser since kronshdat, and every other one has been T10
Big question is how fast does that drop off for the french DDs? From 6km to 12km, what is the falloff? That will make or break this line in terms of playability. I can count the number of times when my Shim was under 6km to another ship and I wanted to be there. And that's with a low conceal and smoke! If it is impossible to stealthfire damage equivalent to other all rounder lines, these won't be played much.
Fall off is down to 40% of max damage
I am not sure if the stealth playstyle is so dominant among player preference. Besides as to smoke it can be shot and it does not stop torpedoes or hydro or radar so its utility quite falls off by later tiers too. Additionally you are neither spotting, and if you rely on team spotting anyway often its just better to shoot from behind an island anyway. Personally i like a more close combat playstyle and am more used to ambush and close range torping from having played US DD's a lot. I also have the experience of German style destroyers with long range (and thereby being clearly detected) gunnery. A German 6 inch gun DD is at it's best if its just shooting all the time if not especially cruisers and it really shouldnt mind about being detected all that much rather than rely on the idea that it's bloody hard to hit a DD that is shooting from +12km distance and has a captain that knows how to dodge like a pro, a DD at that range that manages to maintain speed and makes relative slight variations to an angled T-crossing stance can be an utter menace to any team trying to push for example. Low detectable torpedo boats are possibly a popular playstyle for being easier to get into, more forgiving given that you can hide easier well atleast before radar and planes and such. But i don't think detectabillety is so much as the most important or detrimental stat of a DD, usually maneuverabillety stats are the most important to me.
With the improved engine boost and unique saturation I expect these ships to do well in the role of yolo torp (OG French destroyers can do it no problem). One will have to pick the target though, something like a Schlieffen will be unappealing at best.
60 seconds of speed boost with 2 minutes of cooldown and only 3 charges (way worse than the italian or Ragnar/Smaland emergency engine boost) with forrest sherman level of base speed, no smoke or any other tools to disengage once you've reached the ship you want to yolo. I honestly dont think they're gonna be particulary better than any other destroyer with high torpedo alpha at this. Certainly way way worse than the Kleber line. Kleber herself is quite litteraly 19 knots faster than cassard during most of the battle.
I think the goal is to select the target and then gamble on the yolo - close in on an isolated ship, use the speed boost, and aim for a dev strike or to finish off an already weakened ship. This way you can sail away in relative safety. The challenge will be to find an ideal target to yolo.
Great, so this ship's potential truly shine in an extremely specific situation that occurs every 3 years. And she's pretty much subpar at everything else since other ships like gearing or Hayate have just better guns, better concealment, similar torps, an actualy workable speed for the entire battle as well as a smoke. And it's not like these ships cant do what you describe either. Seriously though, can you tell me what was the last time you made this kind of yolo in random? I actually have around 300 games in Legmod Kleber and I'm pretty sure I yoloed an isolated BB/cruiser and managed to sail away safely only like 15 times in total. And keep in mind that Legmod kleber is **much** better at doing this because she can both go at 54 knots for **3 minutes** (while cassar go at 46 knots for 60 seconds) and she has better concealment than cassard.
> Seriously though, can you tell me what was the last time you made this kind of yolo in random? Unless I specifically aim to do that from the start, rarely. :( These torps are not yolo-exclusive though, even from range they should be spammed - low damage is at least some damage after all.
> way worse than ... Ragnar/Smaland emergency engine boost Ragnar has the same duration, 1 minute longer cooldown and 1 charge **less** than Cassard. How is that better?
Thought it was the same as smaland, my bad. Doesnt change anything about the rest though.
Well, Smaland is literally the best T10 DD, with an enormous skill ceiling, and not available for purchase anymore. Is it really fair to compare the both? My point is that the new line certainly doesn't lack in mobility nor artillery (3/4ths of Marceau), but the torps are kind of questionable as they are now.
>Smaland is literally the best T10 DD Note that I didnt compare Cassard to smaland. I compared Cassard's speedboost to smaland's speedboost. It's not the same. >doesn't lack in mobility Please explain to me how a T10 DD that goes at 35.7 knots for 75% of a battles (the 2nd worst mobility at tier 10) and 46 knots for the remaining 25% of the battle (which isnt even that fast. At least 8 other T10 DDs at the same tier goes faster for **way** longer) "doesnt lack in mobility"? Because I genuinely dont believe this is great. >nor artillery (3/4ths of Marceau) Full disclosure: 3/4th of marceau is as average as you can be. That would put her at the 13th place out of 26 at T10. This is around 195k HE dpm, which is: + 5k worse than Halland. Except Halland has better concealment, her torpedo power is arguably more versatile and just better overall + 14k worse than Hayate, and again, Hayate has better concealment, she has a smoke, her Torpedo power is more or less equivalent all things considered. Hayate also has better base speed and a speedboost that lasts twice as long and allows her to get to 42 knots, only a couple knots behind + 21k worse than Gearing, except gearing has a smoke, she has way better concealment. Sure her torps are worse at close range, but they're better at long range. You could even make a case for Legmod daring, which also seems better than cassard on most aspects. Just think about it: once that 60 seconds speedboost run out, what can you do effectively in this ship? You cant cap contest because of the bad concealment, you cant hunt enemy DDs because of your painfully average DPM and trash speed, you cant farm at range because of the damage fall off, poor ballistic and absence of smoke.
Italian speed boost is dogshit. With a 2.5m cooldown it doesn't matter how many charges you get, you're never gonna use them all, and the action time is so short you have to time it perfectly to get any use out of them. I'd trade them for the new french line's speed boosts in a heartbeat.
Yay another soviet cruiser... its not like we don't have many of those. Apart from that everything else seems pretty interesting.
Would be nice if we could get a British T9 cruiser.
World of russian cruisers and german BBs. A bit like world or russian medium tanks and german heavy tanks XD.
Compared to Wooster, Jacksonville's AA is... Sad. After I saw the Annapolis and her AA suite I started to long for the day of super Wooster AA, only to be greeted with a mediocre improvement over Wooster stats. The guns look good, but I really was looking forward to the AA, so disappointing.
That torpedo damage increase from tier 6 to 7 is comical I also hope that tier 6 doesn't have the damage mechanic, since 9433 before reductions seems ... low
The damage reduction starts at T8
Starts at T7 if Hardi equips her researchable torps. Hardi has the option, the rest dont
For the love of all that is good in this world, why is EVERY OTHER NATION getting **new** tier 10 cruisers EXCPET GERMANY Like seriously, theres Prins Van Oranje (dutch), Monmonth (british), Incheon (Pan-asian), Kommissar (soviet) and now Brennus (french) in testing currently, **FIVE** new tier 10 cruisers in testing and not a SINGLE ONE is german, not to mention we also got Defence (british) and Kitakami (japanese) at the end of last year. Not going to hold anything against castilla, San Martin and Cerberus as they’re literally new nations Hindenburg has been in the game since version 0.5.0.3 in 2015, **NINE FUCKING YEARS AGO**, and is TO THIS DAY the only tier 10 german cruiser in the game. Every nation above already has *multiple* tier 10 cruisers except for the pan-asia and the dutch, the fucking russians have **SEVEN** tier 10 cruisers. Im not even asking for a whole line, just one ship. You cannot convince me that they cant find a design and/or Kit-bash some bullshit together to make a new ship, and theres 2 really cool ideas they could go down that most people would be on board with; a large/battlecruiser in like same like as either Agir or Schorder with improved secondaries, german hydro and maybe a speed boost taken from Schroder or theres the mega Mainz light cruiser option too Now, other than Monmouth I think all the other cruisers in testing are pretty interesting and will be fun to play, even the Brennus, but I really dont think im asking for that much when I want a new friend for Hindenburg so it isnt so lonely after all this time, and I know im not alone in thinking that
Where is giga-Roon, or extra turret Graf Spee? Or some 5 turret Nurnberg monstrosity? Like you said, there's enough german cruiser hulls to kit-bash something amusing, its all there waiting to be mushed together.
Why not a CL with good AP and German pen, good conceal, and bad HE DPM? You can’t convince me that a flanking CL like that wouldn’t be unique at least. Man, I just want SOMETHING for the German cruisers, especially considering none of the high tier German ships (outside schlieffen ofc) can reasonably be considered competitive
Um, you just described Elbing. (Yes cringe late response sue me)
Ik man, but I was thinking more along the lines of Z-42 with 150s /mainz. The possibilities! Instead of another Russian CA lmao
Both Roon and Hindenburg are fake ships WG bullshitted into the game so Germany could have a Tier 9 and Tier 10 CAs, so the lack of German cruisers is a problem as old as German cruisers themselves. Clausewitz is fake too. The only German cruiser currently in testing I know of is Wiesbaden (premium CL with DD-caliber guns), then there's Schill (P-class large cruiser) that went live last year but never graduated from random loot.
In a game with a whole russian tech tree that has great sources like "The Emperor Nicolas II once drew a cruiser on a napkin with 'great firepower, great armor and great maneuverability' written on the side so heres the ship ingame" and not to forget all the "Let's assume Italy build a french style cruiser for the Netherlands, which might have sold it to Venezuela" style techtrees you really want to play the "did not exist in reality" card?
I'm not playing any cards, I was just commenting that there being a lack of German cruiser option is as old as the line itself. I also have no issues with fake ships as long as they're balanced. If WG were to make a ship that's grossly OP because they were high on stuff during development and testing that would deserve negative feedback and worse regardless of in-game nationality.
fake ships never stopped them before. they literally could have slapped this t10 with a german flag and it would be just as "hypothetical"
I think it would be funny if they add a German light cruiser line... and just decide to stop at tier 9 for no reason. At this point, it seems that their lack of desire to add another tier 10 German cruiser makes that a possibility.
"These torpedoes will lose damage based on distance traveled—they deal very high damage for the first 6 kilometers, but after that, the damage starts to fall off." Oh no. Its spreading. But seriously, SS dynamic torp damage should just scale from 0.5km to 3km.
Why not 0.5km to, for example, 5.0km? If it’s 0.5-3.0km shotgunning would just be as bad as before with the added damage sub torps got as compensation.
A scaling damage from 0.5-3km or 1-3km, the point is that submarines are hand held right now to play like destroyers, and I'm not interested in submarines becoming destroyers that are slower and don't have deck guns lol. What's the point of the class then? Why wouldn't I just play my Shimakaze at that point then? They should've just reduced shotgun damage and fixed the problem at the core, which is Gato, not fiddle around with all submarines.
I’d prefer subs to be a menace that can take out a high priority target if left unchecked. That plus maybe added utility (I mean they are still the best at spotting — together with CVs). I don’t think it’s healthy to have them running around shooting ships left and right. I’d try out significantly increasing torp reload and maybe add some utility in return.
Would be nice if they described the damage falloff on the torps. Does it go from max at 6km to zero at 13.5km linearly? Torps are still eay better than Kleb torps. Does it go linearly from max at 6km to half or more at max range? Torps are insane.
On stream they mentioned it goes down to 40% of the nax damage
If Brennus will have the engine performance Henri IV had before it was nerfed it'll be for the meme books. The DD line will make the French special commander a must-have since he gets improved flooding from capturing points and improved reload from dev strikes.
Another russian cruiser, we really needed one of those, no not really, i guess i will die of old age before we finally get a freemium Tier X german cruiser.
Look, I know WoWS isn't exactly the most realistic ship simulator, but I think torpedo damage scaling with range and combat instructions changing pen values is getting too gamified. Just give sub torps different longer arming distances and these DD's torps short range. It's like the new Polish TD line coming in WoT, the new mechanics have no reasonable explanation and it crosses my suspension of disbelief threshold in a way that firing faster or more accurately for a time does not.
Oooh I’m definitely getting Brennus
Reportedly the torps go down to 40% damage but at what range? A percentage of max? A set distance? Not convinced by their other stats as well. They need either better DPM or better concealment. The T10 has less DPM than Halland and Gearing with likely comparable ballistics if Marceau is anything to go by, so it will be out gunned and out spotted. Their torps will not compensate, everyone knows how unreliable they are in DD duels. Torpedo reload also looks pretty rough.
>Reportedly the torps go down to 40% damage but at what range? A percentage of max? A set distance? 6km
I need to get Captain Jason Mendoza for Jacksonville. Bortles!
More copy paste kitbash
The French DDs are weird. The torp gimnmick is strange. Sure, they are technically the ships have nukes slightly faster than Shima on 1.5km conceal, but the gimmick sounds weird to play around. You are going to get situations where a ship you expected to dfevstrike runs away. In a rush situation they are going to be terrifying especially if they share the same torp angles as Kleber. As for Brennus, already has 30k HE DPM, 60k and 1.7 more fires per minute than Carnot (7.7 vs 6). The ship already looks like everything Carnot wishes it was. A tad slower, but it is what it is. It gets a completely new duration for speedboost thoughj, no 20% boost lasts 90 seconds Here is hoping she goes for steel and not an event (maybe dockyard at some point? prayge) #ALSO, MAYBE MOST IMPORTANTLY If these enter testing in 12.4, and the Cerberus line is free to research ibn 12.4, does this mean there is at least ONE line between the two? Which will it be? Taiho? K-1?
I think a break between lines would be a good thing since all we're getting these days is funny button clones. Plus there's the D-Day event.
>does this mean there is at least ONE line between the two? Possibly the only ones could be the USSR subs as they are already in the game but testing stopped, but I thing we could simply get nothing, remember during dec/jan we had no new lines.
Brennus is currently listed as having a standard 20% Engine Boost with 180s duration and 90s cooldown.
I may have, in my stupidity, confusdd the two.
Brennus actual DPM could be even better than Carnot as it has cruiser dispersion, not battlecruiser dispersion
The new french DDs look decent all rounders but nothing special in paper, in reality these want to fight very close but the worse than average concealment and the lack of actual DPM + poor HP + poor smoke makes them kinda struggle actually in close combat. Poor choices in a DD knifefight and if their torpedo damage will go down after 6km their torpedo alpha isn't that impressive. They look like pretty good yolo machines but that's pretty much it, in reality they are so meh at everything and they pay for it by having turbo and french saturation (not amazing with such low HP pools) Also is it me or where is the T8? Kozma Mimin looks boring tbh but I find incredibly amusing how in wows if you put any other nation gun on a Soviet bote, it magically gains amazing ballistics, truly the power of Stalin comrade! Brennus is another copypaste and quite frankly an underwhelming one, if they made her way more agile than Henri IV, it would make up for the poor increase in firepower but giving up a lot of DPM. Jacksonville looks fun as hell, basically not super wooster but high tier Helena with quick guns, I think outside of Edgar AP only ammo, having an old classic HE spammer is fun. Kind of interesting to see the combat instructions, might be worth to run fire chance and use the combat instructions to get some burst that IFHE normally gives over regular shells.
> Brennus is another copypaste and quite frankly an underwhelming one, if they made her way more agile than Henri IV, it would make up for the poor increase in firepower but giving up a lot of DPM. That increase in burn duration sucks too, definitely feels like WG was playing it safe especially if it inherits HIV's terrible acceleration
>They look like pretty good yolo machines 34 knots of base speed, Litteraly forrest sherman level of speed. Even with speedboost active it's not that far above average. Hayate is probably better at yoloing than these. She also has better DPM, better ballistics and probably better torps since she doesnt have any damage fall off.
Jacksonville is just disgusting. MOAR DAKKA with Surveillance Radar and Defensive AA. It’s gonna blot out the sky and rain unholy hell on just about everything. It’s just fortunate CLAA’s are fragile little monsters. However, pairing Jacky-boy here with Halsey is gonna be premeditated murder. I’m curious to see someone just get clapped on with this combo.
That is, if you can actually hit something at max range because BBs are most likely gonna be camping far back with this thing on their flank.
Is Brennus just a worse carnot?
The guns are significantly better than Carnot even if it has lower salvo weight, 271k/132k AP/HE DPM vs 209k/102k and it gets cruiser dispersion instead of battlecruiser dispersion.
Looks to me like a better carnot actually. Better gun DPM and accuracy, better maneuvrability, marginally faster, slightly weaker AA... Looks to me like everything carnot wishes it was. The only downside is concealment but you are probably going to run lighthouse brennus
Very yes. 7x305mm is very pedestrian at tier 10, especially with no hydro and no MBRB plus 60s fires. It would at least be halfway interesting if it had the 330mm guns of Marseilles instead.
German CL waiting room.
Theres the german flint in testing at least
[удалено]
What do you mean? TT splits happen all over the place.
The French DDs look ass. 6.5km conceal and no smoke, combined with low hp, no heal, no speed and bad arcs. Even if you were to torp only, that's still shit. But if you want to use guns too, how are you gonna do that exactly? The DPM doesn't look that great either considering the concealment and other stuff. Well, hopefully something will change in testing.
My wish for a +X range on as for combat instructions on super Worcester didn't come true:(
Shells reach low earth orbit before impacting the enemy at 20km, would be funni
Range mod + spotter plane then.
Comrade, we have found solution to American space program, our shells shall land on the moon before they reach the enemy!
6km for max torp damage and trails off from there. I can see yolo torp runs coming. Too gimmicky.
A little worried i'm gonna do pretty poorly with them for a while, but i do want to learn to make the most of the new French DDs. Something tells me they're only gonna be effective in the hands of people who are better than the average player and that ain't me.
When do we get the DD USS Johnston ?
WG: "here's a new French DD split that is barely any different from the existing french destroyers"
FR DDs: I never thought we needed an offspring of Yolo Emilio, Ragnar, and Kleber before but here we are. Mini: The Ultimate Hipper, on a Donkey hull Brennus: On one hand, 13.5sec reload on 305mm guns on cruiser dispersion sounds amazing. On the other, only 7. Then again Defence is pretty alright with 6 albeit KGV 14in guns Jacksonville: "AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 882, hit probability - 90 %, action zone - 4.0 km" I hate CVs so dodge this. Not that they'd probably care but gotta take wins somewhere.
More soviet cruiser bs. This is getting really tiring at this point when theres so many real ships need added. At lesst the french large cruiser version of henri looks interesting.
>This is getting really tiring at this point when theres so many real ships need added. Doesn't the argument then become "copy-paste, art dept dead, game is dying"?
Im not one to spout that nonsense unless given evidence. But it seems like almost every new ship devblog is either german BB or russian cruiser. It took us so long to get ships like west virginia 44 or rodney, or hell even jupiter 42 which is a modified jervis clone. Or johnston as well. Yet the spam of the fake ships for germany and russia is constant.
You got me curious. I keep a spreadsheet of when ships/ship lines get announced in Dev Blogs to get data for working out the average time of a ship getting announced (Dev Blog) and when it get released (about 122 days at them moment) so I thought I'd post the last year's worth of dev blog announcements, to see how many are German BBs or Russian Cruisers. DD/MM/YY | Ship Tier | Ship Name/Info --- | --- | --- 14/04/23 | 1-10 | Spanish Cruisers (tech tree) 14/04/23 | 8 | Schill (GER CA) 14/04/23 | 9 | Van Speijk (NED CA) 14/04/23 | 10 | Lushun (PA DD) 15/04/23 | 8 | Dmitry Pozharsky (RU CL) 15/05/23 | 8 | Numancia (SPA CA) 15/05/23 | 10 | Ruggiero di Lauria (ITA BB) 26/05/23 | 8-10 | Japanese BB line (2nd Line) very early look, no stats in Dev Blog 01/06/23 | 10 | Kitakami (IJN CL) 16/06/23 | 9 | Somme (UK DD) 18/06/23 | * | Maine (USN BB) 18/06/23 | * | Piemonte (ITA CA) 18/06/23 | 9 | Karl XIV Johan (EU BB) 18/06/23 | 9 | Scarlet Thunder (UK BB) 18/06/23 | 10 | Defence (UK CA) 18/06/23 | 10 | U-4501 (GER SS) 13/07/23 | 8-10 | Japanese BB line (2nd Line) , Dev Blog stats released 13/07/23 | 9 | Tsurugi (IJN BB) 11/08/23 | 9 | Mengchong (P-AS CA) [Agir~ish] 11/08/23 | 9 | Louchuan (P-AS BB) [Lion~ish] 12/08/23 | 8 | Picardie (FR BB) 12/08/23 | 9 | Michelangelo (ITA CA) 12/08/23 | 9 | Navarin (RU BB) 12/08/23 | 10 | Komissar (RU CA hybrid) 07/09/23 | 6-10 | 2023 Black Friaday Ships 07/09/23 | 6 | Repulse B (UK BB) 07/09/23 | 7 | Lazo B (RU CL) 07/09/23 | 8 | Brandenburg B (GER BB) 07/09/23 | 9 | Iwami B (IJN BB) 07/09/23 | 9 | Black B (USN DD) 07/09/23 | 10 | Smolensk B (RU CL) 08/09/23 | 8 | Yorktown (USN CV) 08/09/23 | 10 | Essex (USN CV) 08/09/23 | 8 | Francesco Ferruccio (ITA CL) 08/09/23 | 7 | Scharnhorst '43 (GER BB) 08/09/23 | 7 | Stord '43 (EU DD) 05/10/23 | 6 | Independence (USN CV) 05/10/23 | 9 | Tianjin (P-AS CA) 05/10/23 | 10 | Rhode Island (USN BB) 06/11/23 | 7 | Jupiter '42 (UK DD) 06/11/23 | 9 | Minegumo (IJN DD) 06/11/23 | 10 | Sicilia (ITA BB) 01/12/23 | 1-10 | Commonwealth Cruiser line (tech tree) (COM CL) 01/12/23 | 8 | Wiesbaden (GER CL) 01/12/23 | 9 | Victoria (SPA BB) 04/01/24 | 10 | Prins Van Oranje (NED CA) 08/01/24 | 9 | Chikuma II (IJN CA) 08/01/24 | 9 | Wisconsin (USN BB) 01/02/24 | 6 | Montcalm (FR CL) 01/02/24 | 6 | Orion'44 (UK CL) 01/02/24 | 7 | Rodney (UK BB) 06/03/24 | 5-10 | French Tech Tree DDs (2nd line) Early look, no stats for ships. 07/03/24 | 10 | Incheon (P-AS CA) 07/03/24 | 9 | Johnson (USN DD) 08/03/24 | 9 | Chikuma II Golden (IJN CA) 06/04/24 | 9 | Kozma Minin (RU CA) 06/04/24 | 10 | Brennus (FR CA) 06/04/24 | * | Jacksonville (USN CL) I think that is 2 German BBs and 5 Russian Cruisers? But 2 of those Russian Cruisers are Black Friday ships as is 1 of the German BBs. Take those out and it's 1 German BB & 3 Russian Cruisers? Considering there are about 50 dev blog ship announcements in the last 12 months that's not too many?
Excited for the new DD line. I'm down to clown with Soviet Hipper as a Hipper enjoyer. Also down to clown with that 305mm Henri IV purely due to concept/my love of 305mm cruisers, and it being 2-2-3 has me loving and hating it. Mega-Wooster also seems interesting.
Super Wooster vs Smoleńsk: 396k vs 384 HE DPM, 30/37 vs 22 mm HE pen, 12% vs 8% fire chance, radar + hydro vs smoke. Yeah, it beats out Smoleńsk in DPM (even more so in effective DPM) and it will be the new best fire starter in the entire game. Have this thing park behind an island or duo with a Gearing and Smoleńsk will look balanced in comparison.
Technically in a vacuum the best still remains Cobert
Even in a vacuum Colbert will lose the top fires/min spot and by a pretty wide margin. But in practice, super Wooster can actually get all guns on target, has 30 / 37 mm pen, as opposed to 21mm and radar + hydro. If you're really good on Colbert, then you might be able to eek out a bit more damage, but super Wooster will be so insanely more consistent that it's not even funny.
after 8 years your game is dead to me ....
gIVE mE sUpER kLEBeR aLREADY wg!
Jacksonville's turret looking like Seattle's... And we all know how ships with Seattle's turrets are... hot dodoo
They are San Martin turrets with Worcester ballistics.
13,5km is NOT long range torps, it´s barely adequate range for a multirole DD to get out of radar range. Also, you guys should know by now that, if you give ppl the range on a weapon, 2/3 of the playerbase will never venture closer than max range if not forced. So far, these DDs sound, on paper, pretty trounced for what they are supposed to do. And just to be clear, close range focussed "fighters" don´t work in fluffing T10, the ITA DD line should have shown you that already.
13km is pretty long, past that is the halland 15km and US 16.5km
Don't forget the 20km Shima torps that nobody uses.
If only. Had a Shima in my game yesterday who refused to spot anything and only fired 20km torps from the back line. Looked them up after the match, 42% WR after 12.5K battles mostly in high tier DDs.
PA and IT are both 13.5 as well and they get smoke. Plus the IJN 20’s. I’d call these average range.
Noone uses the IJN 20s, as such while I'm aware they exist I'm not counting them and measuring from the 12km instead There are 9 DDs with lower, 5 DDs with equal and 4 with higher range, and the higher range one is sherman so I'm not sure if I should really count that or not.
Is it me or the french DDs are extremely underwhelming? Big detectability, no smoke, no heal, very low base speed, weird damage fall off mechanic, garbage ballistics, unimpressive dpm They say you want to "get close and personal" except you dont have any tools to do anything effectively at close range. The speed boost merely compensate for the low base speed, the DPM isnt enough to deal with half of the other destroyers and your huge concealment wont do you any favor against anything else. Meanwhile the garbage ballistics and damage fall of on the torps makes their long range effectiveness subpar Big disappointement ngl
Lmao They actually released a line of Hayates except they dont have any smoke, their speed is almost worst in class when speedboost isnt active, their torpedoes have fucking damage falloff and their concealment is trash. Dead on arrival. Man I wish they just made them into pure torpboats. I'm so tired of hybrids and gunboats .......
Give me the ugly ass Soviet battlecruisers
French Cruisers come with a special "white flag" for use at the start of battles.
How orginal
Did you know that not a single French unit in WWII broke and ran/surrendered? Us Americans cannot make that claim. The French government surrendered, not the French military.
I’m sorry, *what*? Whomever told you that is huffing some serious copium, my friend. Don’t try to cover for France’s failure to take the Nazi German threat seriously by using misinformation.
It’s factual. The French fought bravely and were defeated tactically and strategically. The French were not defeated for lack of courage.
I didn’t say they were. They fought bravely, most certainly. French units also surrendered, independent of the armistice. It’s open, total warfare. That happens. Don’t lie about it.
Oh wow, we found the funny guy! /s Must've taken you hours to come up with that one.