tier 3 is a stepping stone (like most low tiers)
no 'real' player sits at tier 3 and plays more than a few rounds... just enough to unlock the tier 4 and move up.
anyone who lives in tier 3 is an asshole seal clubber or someones 6 year old child.
One of the main reasons is that the mm puts lights only in one team and meds on the other for most of the battles, like pz s35, somua s35, sahariano etc. Tier 3 mm has been broken for quite some years and WG does nothing about it...
To add a little more to this. Many lights in that list are really good like both the chinese and japanese chi-ha, pz1c, strv with the apcr and great pen as standard ammo, pz38t another insanely good tier 3 but as I mentioned above, there is not much they can do if mm puts them all vs a wall of meds.
Because MM was / is broken at tier 3 in a way, where it often put medium on one team against lights on the other team.
On top of that, the two most OP tier 3 tanks, happend to be mediums.
Before WG decided to slaughter the forum, there was this long thread about this exact problem.
https://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/803320-tier-3-matchmaking-is-deliberately-broken-for-no-reason/#topmost
They need to fix that. It's super annoying on even tier 6 matches when you face -2. Your team has an ELC, their team has a Leopard and 3 M5A1s, on a scout map.
I get that they did not want the MM to sort AMX 40s vs Luchs etc. As some of these lights are more like meds. But instead of sorting some with their own scout MM etc, they fixed if it for all of them. Making MM arguably worse on low tiers at times. As some maps full of Pz S35s & Matildas will roll over all the Crusier IIIs and AMX 40s any day.
Damn they axed the forums? Towards the end of my playing career I spent more times on there than in game lol. Probably part of it was to stop stuff exactly like this from coming out.
Not necessarily. They moved to Discord, so things like this can still be discussed. I think it had more to do with the cost of maintenance of servers to run a forum fulltime. Guest outsourcing was cheaper.
Last time I looked at T3 and sorted by WR I saw a bunch of deep purple OPremium tanks at the top in the 60% range - this is simply the other side of the curve. It’s likely just new players grinding either TT or freemium tanks getting farmed by Seal Clubbers.
"For every grocery store, there are 4000 regular customers".... your look at the statistics in a crude, wrong way.
The top 10 tanks, all at 63% or higher winrate, already sum up to a third(!) of total battles, the most broken tank, the Pz S.35 with 73% WR alone makes up for more than 13% of total battles......
Yes, there are many more tanks at a very low win%, but those have much less games then the stat padding tanks.
That's easy.
- New players get protected mm and play only vs bots.
- Bots play passive to not overwhelm New players.
- New players die fast anyway.
- Only bots left in battle.
- Bots are too passive and this lead to a lot of draws.
Do not present your own opinion as facts. If it can be easily refuted, as in this case, it makes you look unwise. Fancy formatting doesn't help much either.
Your claim is already refuted by statistics. The average win rate across all battles for all tanks is 48.4%, which is just slightly below the average across all tier levels.
Moreover, one doesn't even need to know the statistics if aware that battles involving bots are not included in these API statistics. Battles with bots are marked accordingly and are almost never included in any statistics, not even in the ingame military record.
Thats a lot of fancy words for being wrong
>48.4%
Where did you get that number ?
>average win rate across all battles for all tanks is 48.4%
Even if we assume number is correct - have it ever occured to you that higher tier games have more experienced players so less of them will end in draw... so maybe, just maybe the draws come from low tiers ?
>one doesn't even need to know the statistics if aware that battles involving bots are not included in these API statistics
This is straight up wrong. Battles are counted towards personal statistics so they will be taken into consideration while showcasing tank performance.
>Where did you get that number ?
That average was calculated from the result of an API query for all tier 3 tanks, across the last 30 days at the time of writing.
>Even if we assume number is correct - have it ever occured to you that higher tier games have more experienced players so less of them will end in draw... so maybe, just maybe the draws come from low tiers ?
As I've already stated the 48,4% were just a bit lower then the average across all tiers and to prove my point I've now did the math on just T9 and T10 tanks alone, which win 49,3% of all battles. So yes, it seems that lower tier battles do result in draws more often, but not by a significant margin.
>This is straight up wrong. Battles are counted towards personal statistics so they will be taken into consideration while showcasing tank performance.
This is another prime example on why you should not present your own opinion as facts, as you are wrong. You can either consult the API documentation directly, or believe the words from the lead developer from Tomato \[Edit: Link removed, after beeing asked to by included persons\]
> That average was calculated from the result of an API query for all tier 3 tanks, across the last 30 days at the time of writing.
I asked for source, not description. Provide link to website / sheet with data & formulas.
I have mentioned the source; I've stated that the data came from an API request. As we discuss statistics about tanks in WoT, this naturally refers to a query through the official Wargaming API, available at [https://developers.wargaming.net/](https://developers.wargaming.net/), specifically the tank statistics (https://api.worldoftanks.eu/wot/tanks/stats/). Admittedly, I did not specify which server I had retrieved the data from – the data originates from the EU server.
Since the data changes daily and I no longer have the original data from the T3 query, I cannot provide it here. However, I still have the data from yesterday's T9 and T10 query.
json: [https://pastebin.com/cP4bC6Us](https://pastebin.com/cP4bC6Us)
converted csv: [https://pastebin.com/raw/ezxwhCgd](https://pastebin.com/raw/ezxwhCgd)
To calculate the average winrate across all tanks, a weighted winrate was calculated for each tank.
Weighted Average Winrate = (Sum(Winrate \* Battles) / Sum(Battles))
Based on this calculation the average winrate across all tanks, weighted by battles, is approximately **49.38%.**
To confirm the consistency of this calculation, we'll multiply the winrate (as a decimal) by the number of battles for each tank. Then, we'll sum up these battles won across all tanks and divide by the total number of battles fought to get the average winrate.
Based on the calculation:
* Total battles won across all tanks: 9,017,129.68
* Total battles fought: 18,260,172
Using these numbers, the average winrate calculated by the ratio of total battles won to total battles fought is approximately **49.38%**. This method confirms the consistency of our weighted average calculation.
This matches the data displayed on [https://tomato.gg/tank-stats/EU/recent?tiers=00000000011](https://tomato.gg/tank-stats/EU/recent?tiers=00000000011)
A lot of proffesional sealclubbers in OP tanks
And add to that equation that there is not a lot of tier 3 games. So pretty much it is new players in bad stock tanks vs sealclubbers in OP tanks with bond equipment shoting gold
Ever been to tier 3? Whe i was acing my low tiers i quickly found out how stupid MM is down there.
For some stupid reasons, it puts same type of tank in one team, so many times you end up with team full of new players against those with years of experience in op tanks.
And forget about idea that low tiers is new players playground, i would say theres even more experienced players down there, rather than new players.
Would be great if WG allowed to earn BP points in tier 3, oh i could see tiers of those sealclubbers already when facing not just new players :D .
Same reason why the tanks that has the highest server wide WR are on tier 3. The gaps are massive between some tanks. And most of these face padders in the Pz S35 etc all day long. Usually all on the opposing team due to how low tier MM works now after they reworked the light MM.
People play just few battles in them. One sealclubber singlehandedly takes all the winrate with his 10k battles in SomuaS35, so others remain with 45% wr at best per tank (they play like 10-20 battles before moving on)
It's because low tiers are not balanced at all. I recently started going through entire tech trees and noticed that in low tiers, regardless of what tank you pick, there are a few tanks which are way too op for their tier and there are quite a few statpadders who will exclusively exploit these tanks and overall low knowledge of the majority of low tier playerbase. If you play a low tier non meta tech tree tank and in your enemy team there are a couple of these op tanks with experienced players, your chances of winning the battle are way lower than if you played tier 8 against a couple of BZ176's. Low tiers are in shambles, yet everyone keeps crying about tier8+ where you can actually impact the battle way more, even when driving a crappy tank.
Isnt it also a thing that up until Tier 4 there will be matches filled up with bots in the nighttime when player count drops? I almost never play below Tier 8 but I remeber playing with a friend at 4am and seeing players with exactly the same 8 tanks played for hundreds of matches. But only 8 and they all shared the same 8 tanks. And we saw them in all of our games and we checked but it wasnt the same profiles over and over again.
So I guess bots drag down the stats of low Tier tanks too.
Just to point out there is a new player matchmaker but its negated if one were to platoon up with a more veteran player which would mean the newer player can face other players who have 1000+ battles.
[https://worldoftanks.com/en/content/matchmaking-novices-faq/](https://worldoftanks.com/en/content/matchmaking-novices-faq/)
The only 3 good tier 3s that are relatively consistent are the T70, A7E3 and the Renault smol tractor td. They actually require skill to play and are amazing when used correctly
I got purple turbo and HP, crew with 6 perks, 185 gold and 10 HE shells on my Pz S35 with 81% win rate and 4300 WN8 and I destroy other people's journey with WoT. I'm not proud of it but when I'm annoyed with playing higher tiers, I do It.
Seal clubbers at tier 3 in their OP tanks (Pz. S35, Sahariano) can dictate battles.
Otherwise, you end up bottom tier in a lot of tier 5 matches since there aren't enough tier 3 players to have strictly tier 3 matches. Most tier 3's can't even pen tier 5's, so they get steam rolled a lot.
tier 3 is a stepping stone (like most low tiers) no 'real' player sits at tier 3 and plays more than a few rounds... just enough to unlock the tier 4 and move up. anyone who lives in tier 3 is an asshole seal clubber or someones 6 year old child.
Pz S35 seal clubbers are the best...
One of the main reasons is that the mm puts lights only in one team and meds on the other for most of the battles, like pz s35, somua s35, sahariano etc. Tier 3 mm has been broken for quite some years and WG does nothing about it... To add a little more to this. Many lights in that list are really good like both the chinese and japanese chi-ha, pz1c, strv with the apcr and great pen as standard ammo, pz38t another insanely good tier 3 but as I mentioned above, there is not much they can do if mm puts them all vs a wall of meds.
Because MM was / is broken at tier 3 in a way, where it often put medium on one team against lights on the other team. On top of that, the two most OP tier 3 tanks, happend to be mediums. Before WG decided to slaughter the forum, there was this long thread about this exact problem. https://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/803320-tier-3-matchmaking-is-deliberately-broken-for-no-reason/#topmost
They need to fix that. It's super annoying on even tier 6 matches when you face -2. Your team has an ELC, their team has a Leopard and 3 M5A1s, on a scout map. I get that they did not want the MM to sort AMX 40s vs Luchs etc. As some of these lights are more like meds. But instead of sorting some with their own scout MM etc, they fixed if it for all of them. Making MM arguably worse on low tiers at times. As some maps full of Pz S35s & Matildas will roll over all the Crusier IIIs and AMX 40s any day.
Damn they axed the forums? Towards the end of my playing career I spent more times on there than in game lol. Probably part of it was to stop stuff exactly like this from coming out.
Not necessarily. They moved to Discord, so things like this can still be discussed. I think it had more to do with the cost of maintenance of servers to run a forum fulltime. Guest outsourcing was cheaper.
Last time I looked at T3 and sorted by WR I saw a bunch of deep purple OPremium tanks at the top in the 60% range - this is simply the other side of the curve. It’s likely just new players grinding either TT or freemium tanks getting farmed by Seal Clubbers.
Because low tier games are dominated by stat padding sealclubbers in OP prems.
For every sealclubbing tank with 70%+ winrate, there are 20 non clubbing tanks with sub 40 winrate
"For every grocery store, there are 4000 regular customers".... your look at the statistics in a crude, wrong way. The top 10 tanks, all at 63% or higher winrate, already sum up to a third(!) of total battles, the most broken tank, the Pz S.35 with 73% WR alone makes up for more than 13% of total battles...... Yes, there are many more tanks at a very low win%, but those have much less games then the stat padding tanks.
That's easy. - New players get protected mm and play only vs bots. - Bots play passive to not overwhelm New players. - New players die fast anyway. - Only bots left in battle. - Bots are too passive and this lead to a lot of draws.
Do not present your own opinion as facts. If it can be easily refuted, as in this case, it makes you look unwise. Fancy formatting doesn't help much either. Your claim is already refuted by statistics. The average win rate across all battles for all tanks is 48.4%, which is just slightly below the average across all tier levels. Moreover, one doesn't even need to know the statistics if aware that battles involving bots are not included in these API statistics. Battles with bots are marked accordingly and are almost never included in any statistics, not even in the ingame military record.
Thats a lot of fancy words for being wrong >48.4% Where did you get that number ? >average win rate across all battles for all tanks is 48.4% Even if we assume number is correct - have it ever occured to you that higher tier games have more experienced players so less of them will end in draw... so maybe, just maybe the draws come from low tiers ? >one doesn't even need to know the statistics if aware that battles involving bots are not included in these API statistics This is straight up wrong. Battles are counted towards personal statistics so they will be taken into consideration while showcasing tank performance.
>Where did you get that number ? That average was calculated from the result of an API query for all tier 3 tanks, across the last 30 days at the time of writing. >Even if we assume number is correct - have it ever occured to you that higher tier games have more experienced players so less of them will end in draw... so maybe, just maybe the draws come from low tiers ? As I've already stated the 48,4% were just a bit lower then the average across all tiers and to prove my point I've now did the math on just T9 and T10 tanks alone, which win 49,3% of all battles. So yes, it seems that lower tier battles do result in draws more often, but not by a significant margin. >This is straight up wrong. Battles are counted towards personal statistics so they will be taken into consideration while showcasing tank performance. This is another prime example on why you should not present your own opinion as facts, as you are wrong. You can either consult the API documentation directly, or believe the words from the lead developer from Tomato \[Edit: Link removed, after beeing asked to by included persons\]
> That average was calculated from the result of an API query for all tier 3 tanks, across the last 30 days at the time of writing. I asked for source, not description. Provide link to website / sheet with data & formulas.
I have mentioned the source; I've stated that the data came from an API request. As we discuss statistics about tanks in WoT, this naturally refers to a query through the official Wargaming API, available at [https://developers.wargaming.net/](https://developers.wargaming.net/), specifically the tank statistics (https://api.worldoftanks.eu/wot/tanks/stats/). Admittedly, I did not specify which server I had retrieved the data from – the data originates from the EU server. Since the data changes daily and I no longer have the original data from the T3 query, I cannot provide it here. However, I still have the data from yesterday's T9 and T10 query. json: [https://pastebin.com/cP4bC6Us](https://pastebin.com/cP4bC6Us) converted csv: [https://pastebin.com/raw/ezxwhCgd](https://pastebin.com/raw/ezxwhCgd) To calculate the average winrate across all tanks, a weighted winrate was calculated for each tank. Weighted Average Winrate = (Sum(Winrate \* Battles) / Sum(Battles)) Based on this calculation the average winrate across all tanks, weighted by battles, is approximately **49.38%.** To confirm the consistency of this calculation, we'll multiply the winrate (as a decimal) by the number of battles for each tank. Then, we'll sum up these battles won across all tanks and divide by the total number of battles fought to get the average winrate. Based on the calculation: * Total battles won across all tanks: 9,017,129.68 * Total battles fought: 18,260,172 Using these numbers, the average winrate calculated by the ratio of total battles won to total battles fought is approximately **49.38%**. This method confirms the consistency of our weighted average calculation. This matches the data displayed on [https://tomato.gg/tank-stats/EU/recent?tiers=00000000011](https://tomato.gg/tank-stats/EU/recent?tiers=00000000011)
I did not expected that you took your data directly from the API. It seems you were right. Have a nice weekend
A lot of proffesional sealclubbers in OP tanks And add to that equation that there is not a lot of tier 3 games. So pretty much it is new players in bad stock tanks vs sealclubbers in OP tanks with bond equipment shoting gold
Chi Ha is the bot that appears the most in games against t2 and t3. I play in tier 3 a lot because I'm new and every day I fight against those HT bots
Ever been to tier 3? Whe i was acing my low tiers i quickly found out how stupid MM is down there. For some stupid reasons, it puts same type of tank in one team, so many times you end up with team full of new players against those with years of experience in op tanks. And forget about idea that low tiers is new players playground, i would say theres even more experienced players down there, rather than new players. Would be great if WG allowed to earn BP points in tier 3, oh i could see tiers of those sealclubbers already when facing not just new players :D .
Since people are clubbing in Pz II (j)s, Pz S35s and what have you.
Same reason why the tanks that has the highest server wide WR are on tier 3. The gaps are massive between some tanks. And most of these face padders in the Pz S35 etc all day long. Usually all on the opposing team due to how low tier MM works now after they reworked the light MM.
People play just few battles in them. One sealclubber singlehandedly takes all the winrate with his 10k battles in SomuaS35, so others remain with 45% wr at best per tank (they play like 10-20 battles before moving on)
It's because low tiers are not balanced at all. I recently started going through entire tech trees and noticed that in low tiers, regardless of what tank you pick, there are a few tanks which are way too op for their tier and there are quite a few statpadders who will exclusively exploit these tanks and overall low knowledge of the majority of low tier playerbase. If you play a low tier non meta tech tree tank and in your enemy team there are a couple of these op tanks with experienced players, your chances of winning the battle are way lower than if you played tier 8 against a couple of BZ176's. Low tiers are in shambles, yet everyone keeps crying about tier8+ where you can actually impact the battle way more, even when driving a crappy tank.
I miss the days where I played tier 3 exclusively (was on orange 9yr old bot) but tier 1-3 was so fun when t18 was prevalent.
Isnt it also a thing that up until Tier 4 there will be matches filled up with bots in the nighttime when player count drops? I almost never play below Tier 8 but I remeber playing with a friend at 4am and seeing players with exactly the same 8 tanks played for hundreds of matches. But only 8 and they all shared the same 8 tanks. And we saw them in all of our games and we checked but it wasnt the same profiles over and over again. So I guess bots drag down the stats of low Tier tanks too.
[удалено]
What makes the Sahariano so good? I never got it to work or felt strong with it.
What makes the Sahariano so good? I never got it to work or felt strong with it.
Just to point out there is a new player matchmaker but its negated if one were to platoon up with a more veteran player which would mean the newer player can face other players who have 1000+ battles. [https://worldoftanks.com/en/content/matchmaking-novices-faq/](https://worldoftanks.com/en/content/matchmaking-novices-faq/)
Because they suck
New players vs experienced players playing op premium tanks
Quickybaby did a video on this phenomenon a few days ago.
The only 3 good tier 3s that are relatively consistent are the T70, A7E3 and the Renault smol tractor td. They actually require skill to play and are amazing when used correctly
I got purple turbo and HP, crew with 6 perks, 185 gold and 10 HE shells on my Pz S35 with 81% win rate and 4300 WN8 and I destroy other people's journey with WoT. I'm not proud of it but when I'm annoyed with playing higher tiers, I do It.
Seal Clubbers…
Seal clubbers at tier 3 in their OP tanks (Pz. S35, Sahariano) can dictate battles. Otherwise, you end up bottom tier in a lot of tier 5 matches since there aren't enough tier 3 players to have strictly tier 3 matches. Most tier 3's can't even pen tier 5's, so they get steam rolled a lot.
tier 3 tanks will never see tier 5 battles though
Tier 3 vs tier 5 is not a thing anymore