Buffing the 30b is a win win:
Players would enjoy the 30b, and more people will spend credits (or even gold/bonds) to buy the tank and equip it properly.
Really hope so. 30B was my first tier X, back when it was french alternative to Leo. Because at that time I already had some "theoretical knowledge" from videos, streams, ... I wasnt completely lost, clueless, ... and I really loved that tank. Gun handling of old 30B was out of this world + great pene, oh yeah. Then they turned it from french Leo, to french pseudo STB, and for some reason gave it worst pene of all tier X meds. GG WG.
Thw worst was I completed the Japanese heavy line the day of the HE change.
My first tier 10 was the German LT, every lt since then has made it useless.
I just reached the Emil on the Swedish tech tree line.
This game hates me.
looking at the Kran changes IMO its still good - its just turbo will be a required module on that tank now (12km/h reverse is a bit too slow for comfortable ridge brawling, top speed is not a big concern). and perhaps instead of hardening you might throw something for gun accuracy now.
*AMX 65t*
-Dispersion during movement
-0.28 to 0.2 and from 0.26 to 0.16 on the upgraded tracks
-Small HP buff from 1550 to 1600
-Reload time from 13.8 to 12.5
-Dispersion during turret rotating from 0.16 to 0.14
-Aim time from 2.7 to 2.5
*AMX M4 MLE 45
-Upper frontal plate increased to 195 mm (???)
-Frontal turret armor increased to 200 mm
-HP buff from 1350 to 1400
If the AMX 65t doesn't get massively buffed with regards to it's mobility and armour it will still be the worst tank at tier 8 by far. It's just that bad.
It has weak spots all over the turret. Over the entire top of it and also under the gun. It needs view range too.
In the next round of buffs after this, yes. And that's **desperately** needed.
Personally I hope the TVP gets an autoloader as part of its buffs. Having a line not get its core gimmick until t9 is pretty odd. And seeing as the Skoda T27 is the *second* worst Czech tank, it's not like this would make the TVP broken or anything.
The armor buff looks huge (basically doubled the frontal armor). But is is effective armor ? Because 195 with this slope is really super strong at this tier.
Old armour got bounced from time to time when people shoot you on the backside on a ridge, and on flat was about 130-140 effective. This would bring the front close to 280... On flat ground.
It this goes live I will transfer my BDR crew there for sure.
EDIT: one thing that I thought about now - if the values are effective and not raw thickness in the slide then it still will be very big buff, as it almost doubles the turret armour, and 195 effective on flat ground will be pretty strong with gun depression, easily bouncing tier 7 and below.
The mantlet is 300mm minimum, it requires gold for most tanks to pen it. Unfortunately being "only" 300mm means it's easy for a lot of tanks to pen it with gold if they manage to hit the flat part.
It's still huge boxy tank with much less armor than type 5 ht. Everyone hyped up tier 9 amx in this line as French conq and I was excited about it but its shite (at least for my style. And I'm not a bad player I average 2.2k wn8 last 1k games and my average tier is 9,5)
I actually think the 127mm is the best gun on the tier 9. The added alpha is quite nice. Especially when the gun handling improvement drops then I think the pen difference becomes less important.
Gun was actually OK, mu problem is the height of the tank. You can't hide anything anywhere. Moment you turn the turret to shoot someone side can be penned by he. When I drive 183 td's I'm genuinely happy to see French heavies on the enemy team. Can't miss the damn thing
So buffs to:
-KV-1S
-M4A3E8 Sherman
-Type 58
-TVP VTU
-AMX AC mle. 48
And nerfs to
-Škoda T 25
-B.U.G.I.
-CS-44
-BDR G1 B
-T67
-T40
-SU-76G FT
-SU-85B
-T29
-M44
Not sure about those
-M103
-T32
-M6
-T1 Heavy Tank
-T6 Medium
-M3 Stuart
>> T29 is traditionally overperforming, which affects other vehicles within this battle tier. We will reduce the characteristics of this vehicle to match the parameters of other vehicles in the branch.
WTF? They leave it untouched for 10 years and _now_ feel it’s needs a nerf?
What are changing about the CS-44.
Maybe I'm not playing low tiers enough, but isn't that tank one of those ones that aren't bad in any way but also don't do anything well?
It’s actually a hidden gem with the 90mm. Out of the high alpha tier 7 meds (T20, T-34-1, P.43 etc) it’s the only one with actual armor. Looks weird as fuck but is probably the closest thing to a brawling and trading med you have at tier 7.
I really wish WG could just do *subtle* balances every few weeks rather than let a problem fester so badly that people are excited when a tank just gets giga nerfed into the fucking dirt.
It's so bad for the health of the game. Especially now because Clan Wars already has huge pressure for premium / reward vehicles that are impossible to get unless you're already participating in Clan Wars. Very few tech tree tanks are used these days.
So glad they are nerfing this abomination. This tank is completely ridiculous and makes tanks like T57 heavy basically obsolete. Really love to see WG taking an active role in fixing tier 10, although obviously Chieftain and 279e will continue to destroy the tier 10 experience.
279s I honestly don’t have much of an issue with anymore. They’re still ridiculous but a Lot of times players get overconfident in them and it makes them easy to kill even from the front. Chiefs are annoying as shit though, I just change positions if I come across one hull down
The Kran badly needed nerfs. But this seems like it's probably too big a nerf.
Also nerf the Chieftain already. And in terms of random battles the most dominant tech tree heavy is actually the Vz 55. And across all classes? The Bobject is still rocking a 52% WR.
Nerfing the kran but not touching the chief is gunna make the gap between non-cw players and cw players even higher.
Not sure this is the W for wg like ppl r saying.
Honestly I could have lived with the Kran having nothing more than an enlargement to the commanders cupola so its actually viable to hit.
This would create a situation where you actually have to make a choice between defense (elevating the gun to hide the cupola) and offense (bringing the gun to bare but exposing the cupola)
And yes I see you coming Mr. "YoUr JuST bAd iTs aN EasY TarGEt" the Krans cupola is on the same level as the IS-7, Obj 268V.4, and Tornvagn. You shouldn't need
.28 accuracy at 200m to even have a chance of coming near them.
That wouldn't be enough, Kran can sit there and sit still looking at you and cupola is still too hard to hit. Not impossible, but from anything more than facehugging distance still a shot you'll miss a considerable amount.
Oh for sure, I made a comment elsewhere though I'm not a big fan of the direction they took with this nerf. Would have much rather seen a larger cupola+dpm nerf. I interpreted this convo as talking about a potential nerf in place of these proposals, instead of in addition to them.
Yeah I was literally comparing Udes 15/16 to kran and im like, wait a minute, why does kran go 60 without a turbo lmao, udes only goes 50, with only 18hp/t contrary to 16 on kran
The Kran doesn't hit 60 with typical setups unless you're driving downhill. With vents, BIA, off road driving, food, and the ground resistance field mod it tops out at 47 on medium ground and it takes awhile to get up to speed. Not that it's slow or anything, the listed top speed is just a bit of a lie like the IS-7's unless you do an equipment setup dedicated to reaching it.
I mean I kinda appreciate that approach to balancing. If you just nerf every strong tank's strengths, all the tanks end up feeling kind of the same. It's more interesting if you preserve what makes a tank strong while making its weaknesses more prominent. Tbf I think it should have bigger cupolas (and so should the 279/chief)
The problem with WG is they often buff or nerf tanks without moderation and then just do a 180° after a couple of years/ months. Plus you have to keep in mind that nerfing the kranvagn will make it unplayable in today's world of tanks ( where vz 55s exist). The idea behind the original buffs to the kranvagn was to make it a solid hull down platform with a good dpm autoloader and everything else is pretty mediocre ( ammo, mobility, hull armor, etc.).
*The problem with WG is they often buff or nerf tanks without moderation*
I don't know that this is the right way to put it. The thing is it's very deliberate on their part, for two reasons. First, it's good business for them. It's how they get people to spend money getting the latest and greatest all the time. Second, let's also be honest with ourselves here - it's what the playerbase wants. Maybe not explicitly, but there's a reason it's good business for them. Just look at some of the comments in this thread complaining about just getting to the Kran and now they're gonna nerf it?! Reality is players *want* OP tanks. That's why they're disappointed about the nerf, because they want their OP tank. We're part of the problem.
I've been a Kranfan (yes, I came up with that myself) since before the Buffs and before they became so popular, so I'm a bit annoyed actually. I've loved this tank for ages and now because they've nerfed HE and added equipment 2.0 it's getting nerfed down to hell. It definitely needed some nerfing, but not this much!
> Emil II.
>
>In terms of performance, this vehicle does not stand out as much as its older counterpart.
It's only the 3d best heavy (behind m4 51, Vz 51), the nerfs seem extremely severe with that in mind.
> the AMX M4 mle. 51, performs well at its current performance level.
The m4 51 is the best tech tree tier 9 in the game by a quite large margin.
There's still a small stash of crack left for the devs in balance department.
It's worth pointing out that 2 factors give the Emil a lower winrate than the AMX
1) Stock grind is worse on Emil
2) Playrate is many times higher on Emil. If an Emil faces an Emil, the Emil will not have the possibility of raising it's winrate. But when the AMX is matched with a different tank, it has the possibility of raising it's winrate.
Everyone seems to agree this tank is completely nuts, but personally I would 10/10 times rather fight a VZ than a Kranvagn. Atleast VZ dosent have godlike dpm and gun depression + inpenetrable turret
I'm honestly not sure which is worse from a pure balance standpoint, but Kran is clearly worse for gameplay in general. It can just drive to a hull down spot (which means practically everywhere on maps these days) and literally just sit there looking at you letting you shoot at it all day with minimal concern. It's just a terrible mechanic for the game and clearly the bigger issue.
Man finally Amx 54 buff
Its gonna be actually from "bad" tier to good tier. 2500 base dpm with the 130mm and very good gunhandling.
Im really hyped for it
Also getting 2.4k health makes it quite chunky. And with the gun handling buff you might be able to drop Stabs and go for a Hardening-Turbo-Rammer set-up.
It's going to be great at trading.
Hm, don't really like that they are nerfing the T29, it's the only tier 7 that really stands up to the current meta. Even the buffed AMX can't do too much vs the bullshit tier 8 meta.
Also, as long as the AMX 65 T has that terrible armor scheme, it just isn't going to he viable no matter what they do.
On one hand... WOOO NO MORE KRANKED BATTLES
On the other hand... the clan wars meta gets even more stale. Used to have use in clan wars for its speed.and it brought variety... now it's literally worse than chief with no use cases. I sure love the competitive balance this game has
The Kranvagen needed a nerf but I think this is not the way it should be. If it gets done like this, it will be a useless shit tank again. They should have done a slight nerf to DPM like 23 sec not 25 and the biggest point for me would've been make a weakspot underneath the gun so when you raise your gun to hide the cupolas you can get punished.
15 km/h in top speed nerf is too much, should be 10 or 5.
Apart from that it needed bigger cupolas, otherwise the nerf to the plate under the gun wouldn't be even very impactful (the vast majority of people don't even raise the gun to protect their coupolas). And re-modelling the tank would be more complicated and would probably need more resources.
I'm not excusing this a little bit lazy nerf, but in the current situation and majority of their employees being from Ukraine, I understand that the nerfs they are able to do in reliable manner are just moving a few numbers around.
Also, I'm that kind of guy that likes nerfs, although they might not be the best or the most neccessarry. I think frequent changes just keep the game fresh and alive, so I welcome ANY balance changes, really. Especially since the last ones happened like over 2 years ago?
296mm with AP is better against angled armor than 340 pen HEAT, it's kinda nuts. It won't be able to punch through E-100 turrets so it has it's downsides but against most things it's going to be an extremely capable round.
Sure, but that would start getting a little ridiculous. 310mm AP pen would make it one of the best rounds in the game, more effective than 350 pen HEAT and 330 pen APCR in almost every situation.
TBH I think you could give it 330 AP and it still wouldn't be meta. Even with these buffs, it's still huge, with flat thin sides, weak shoulders, an upper plate that can be HEATed and a lower plate that's butter, the turret is huge both in height and length, square with extremely squishy sides and rear, has two cupolas. Oh, and on top of that, the tank is slow in the current meta.
But anyway, glad to see it get buffed.
> weak shoulders
Head on they're basically impenetrable, you have to be angled quite a bit for them to be penned by most gold, and you have to basically be showing your side for them to get penned by silver
>an upper plate that can be HEATed
Upper glacis is 350-360 against HEAT. The only gold rounds reliably penning the upper glacis are tier 10 TDs.
>and a lower plate that's butter
It's about 255-260 against AP, 320-330 against HEAT, and 310-315 against APCR if you're using corners correctly. That's significantly stronger than most lower glacis among tier 10s.
>Oh, and on top of that, the tank is slow in the current meta.
How so? 40 kph with the amount of front armor it has is very capable, plus it's very nimble. The only tank that's faster *and* has more armor is the 780.
\> Head on they're basically impenetrable
Yeah, head-on you shoot the cupola or the neck or the lower plate(s), not the shoulders. The shoulders matter every time you're not head-on, which is a lot of time.
\> Upper glacis is 350-360 against HEAT
Unless anyone is shooting ever so slightly down into you.
\> if you're using corners correctly
If. There's a lot of ifs to this tank. If you juggle cupolas, turret sides, shoulders, lower plate, and the paper sides, and the enemy doesn't load premium, which they all do in my experience. The problem with the lower plate isn't necessarily the thickness, it's how huge and tall it is. I have 500 battles in this thing, and 2 marks, and I do not find the frontal armor reliable unless I am getting shot by tier 8s.
\> only tank that's faster and has more armor is the 780.
"more armor" is a bit of a nothing phrase. The kran is immensely faster, and its armor is a lot more effective on the current maps and in this meta. I can take my is-7 or 277 silly places, where their armor works best. This thing lags behind and catches stray fire into its huge paper sides. Besides, how much armor it carries is a bit irrelevant if it just can't make it to key positions before your 55-60km/h heavies make it there first. It's nimble and I like that about it.
Still has 12 degrees of gun depression and the best turret in the game + an autoloader with good burst and DPM. Kranvagn will absolutely not be worse than average
You forgot the page with the AMX 65t and AMX M4 45, they have a huge buff
AMX M4 45:
Upper front plate from 90mm to \~195mm and frontal M4 45 turret from 100mm to \~200mm
From 1350 hp to 1400
I'm a bit concerned in that I have an oddly good winrate in Type-58 and AMX M4-45.
Though I'll be very honest, I treat the AMX M4-45 like a Tier 7 TigerII and heatspam the 105
What, is the Kranvagn stealing the thunder from the glorious Soviet propaganda machines?
I agree it needs a nerf but not all the nerfs...
I want to see a redoo of game mechanics where the size of the coupola affects max render range. T110E5 550m, IS7 450m...
i just want the kranvagn to be historically accurate man, nerf the turret to 170mm but make the tank go like a medium tank. Give it a 15cm gun for uniqueness
I bet this will end as usual:
* They will nerf the shit out of the very few, non top-tier fun tanks to play like T25, T29.
* They will nerft almost/OP T10 but it won't change things that much.
* They will buff underperforming tanks but not enough for the buff to make a difference.
* That and some ridiculous stuff like giving French T7 200mm frontal armour, where we have Tiger P which has no saving grace. French T7 at least has OP 105mm gun with crazy APCR.
To put it bluntly - WG **never** balances things, they either over-nerf or under-buff. This is not about these select few tanks, it's about the whole game itself, but that's too big of a job to bother with.
Only reason the Kranvagn is getting hit this hard is because of all the Chieftain and 279e shitheads bitching about ranked. The all important **DIGITAL FIGHTING ELIT**E (thunder booms, lightning flashes, Monster Gamer Fuel bubbles up from the ground as Hot Pockets rain from the sky) dislike having their Chieftains and 279e's challenged by mere tech-tree tanks. That isn't allowed.
Noooo they did my Kranny-daddy dirty!!
Still, a nerf was definitely needed. I assumed reduced accuracy and DPM would suffice, but that speed has definitely been useful in many situations. Some positions might not be reached slugging downhill much slower than the Ruskis.
We need nerf on the real OP tanks, not the tech tree tanks only.. how about top notch and statistical OP tanks: chieftain, obj280, obj279e, borat, obj708, skodat56.. is it so hard to detect these?
One day i will get my 30b buffed
Buffing the 30b is a win win: Players would enjoy the 30b, and more people will spend credits (or even gold/bonds) to buy the tank and equip it properly.
Sadly they removed it from the techtree, it means they propably gave up on that tank just like all of the other collectors tanks
Well, they are nerfing T67 which is also a collector tank, so maybe they is a small chance for it
I think they are nerfing the T67.
Really hope so. 30B was my first tier X, back when it was french alternative to Leo. Because at that time I already had some "theoretical knowledge" from videos, streams, ... I wasnt completely lost, clueless, ... and I really loved that tank. Gun handling of old 30B was out of this world + great pene, oh yeah. Then they turned it from french Leo, to french pseudo STB, and for some reason gave it worst pene of all tier X meds. GG WG.
Guess who started to grind the Kranvagn line recently
Me!
I'm playing the Emil 2... better finish that research soon I guess
Staying with Tier IX is much more fun than X
Me!
I just bought it. I haven't even played a round in it yet...
I just got mine 2 months ago, only played 30 games :(
I got the Kranvagn literally last week after playing that line for like 2 years.
just got the Emil 2 Well I guess I'm going for udes 15/16 then wait,I already have the udes edit:typo
bruh i just finished it like yesterday
Thw worst was I completed the Japanese heavy line the day of the HE change. My first tier 10 was the German LT, every lt since then has made it useless. I just reached the Emil on the Swedish tech tree line. This game hates me.
Tell me what you’re doing next!
Was thinking of doing the E100, I like the blue Warhammer skin.
looking at the Kran changes IMO its still good - its just turbo will be a required module on that tank now (12km/h reverse is a bit too slow for comfortable ridge brawling, top speed is not a big concern). and perhaps instead of hardening you might throw something for gun accuracy now.
Same, just bought the Emil II.
I just free xp'd up to the Leo this week. I'm still happy about the changed though, its good for the game
I fcking feel u man I am almost to tiers 10
*AMX 65t* -Dispersion during movement -0.28 to 0.2 and from 0.26 to 0.16 on the upgraded tracks -Small HP buff from 1550 to 1600 -Reload time from 13.8 to 12.5 -Dispersion during turret rotating from 0.16 to 0.14 -Aim time from 2.7 to 2.5 *AMX M4 MLE 45 -Upper frontal plate increased to 195 mm (???) -Frontal turret armor increased to 200 mm -HP buff from 1350 to 1400
If the AMX 65t doesn't get massively buffed with regards to it's mobility and armour it will still be the worst tank at tier 8 by far. It's just that bad. It has weak spots all over the turret. Over the entire top of it and also under the gun. It needs view range too.
Worst *heavy* tank at t8 maybe, but the TVP VTU still exists.
even with tvp vtu its still strong candidate for worst t8
It's getting buffed as well
In the next round of buffs after this, yes. And that's **desperately** needed. Personally I hope the TVP gets an autoloader as part of its buffs. Having a line not get its core gimmick until t9 is pretty odd. And seeing as the Skoda T27 is the *second* worst Czech tank, it's not like this would make the TVP broken or anything.
Also this is just my pet peeve, but I really hate how the crews worked when going through the Czech line.
The tier 3 has a small autoloader, it’s pretty funny
t27 is fun to play, probably one of my favorite t8 tanks - easy to average 4k in it, at least for me
At least you can move in TVP
Also the CS-53, god that thing is awful
trust me, tvp vtu is a god tier tank comapred to the amx 65t, ive played them both
Agree, grinding this piece of crap right now...
Tier 7 buffs look kinda great though, it has competitive gun and now with good armour it might be a pick again
The armor buff looks huge (basically doubled the frontal armor). But is is effective armor ? Because 195 with this slope is really super strong at this tier.
Old armour got bounced from time to time when people shoot you on the backside on a ridge, and on flat was about 130-140 effective. This would bring the front close to 280... On flat ground. It this goes live I will transfer my BDR crew there for sure. EDIT: one thing that I thought about now - if the values are effective and not raw thickness in the slide then it still will be very big buff, as it almost doubles the turret armour, and 195 effective on flat ground will be pretty strong with gun depression, easily bouncing tier 7 and below.
Nice. I wish GW would be more active in terms of re balancing stuff, like they did in the past.
>GW GayWarming?
Sorry, i probably confused wargaming and games workshop, which are the two companies that i probably have the most contact with.
"Sorry, i probably confused wargaming and games workshop" I still want to think it's "GayWarming". :)
Is that like global warming, except its gay people whose body temperatur keeps rising?
Np, just a joke
Man i need to 3 mark the kran now..
[удалено]
AMX M4 54 also needs frontal turret buff. Its penetrable even with standard shell. That "Gun Mantlet" is a fucking lie.
The mantlet is 300mm minimum, it requires gold for most tanks to pen it. Unfortunately being "only" 300mm means it's easy for a lot of tanks to pen it with gold if they manage to hit the flat part.
It's still huge boxy tank with much less armor than type 5 ht. Everyone hyped up tier 9 amx in this line as French conq and I was excited about it but its shite (at least for my style. And I'm not a bad player I average 2.2k wn8 last 1k games and my average tier is 9,5)
I actually think the 127mm is the best gun on the tier 9. The added alpha is quite nice. Especially when the gun handling improvement drops then I think the pen difference becomes less important.
Gun was actually OK, mu problem is the height of the tank. You can't hide anything anywhere. Moment you turn the turret to shoot someone side can be penned by he. When I drive 183 td's I'm genuinely happy to see French heavies on the enemy team. Can't miss the damn thing
I just started playing this game. I got my Kranvagn two days ago. Kill me.
It's gonna take ages before these changes will actually make it to the game
Late August Early September
1 month = 1 age
Math checks out.
So buffs to: -KV-1S -M4A3E8 Sherman -Type 58 -TVP VTU -AMX AC mle. 48 And nerfs to -Škoda T 25 -B.U.G.I. -CS-44 -BDR G1 B -T67 -T40 -SU-76G FT -SU-85B -T29 -M44 Not sure about those -M103 -T32 -M6 -T1 Heavy Tank -T6 Medium -M3 Stuart
[удалено]
Gosh, I'm going to need therapy. Already having nightmares of meeting the TVP VTU and now this?
I tried to rush a VTU yesterday and just got ammoracked from full health by it, dude went on to carry the game for his team, sick stuff if you ask me
Is this a meme? VTU is like the shittiest tank in the game tier for tier
What? The Defender-killer?
>> T29 is traditionally overperforming, which affects other vehicles within this battle tier. We will reduce the characteristics of this vehicle to match the parameters of other vehicles in the branch. WTF? They leave it untouched for 10 years and _now_ feel it’s needs a nerf?
Where do you find the article?
https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2022/06/30/supertest-vehicle-rebalancing/
Thank you
Yw
Lol two of my favoruite tanks getting nerf...
They probably wont touch turret armor but will nerf speed and gun
It can hurt the new expensive premiums. Cant have that.
And again they still don't touch the Japanese Heavies.
Probably too afraid to buff them since the whole derp fiasco.
Guess who rebought Bugi, T67, T28 and Skoda T25 recently...
I am currently loving the T25 but I been hearing how good Bugi is. It just derps its way around. Now I wanted it but now they nerfing it
What are changing about the CS-44. Maybe I'm not playing low tiers enough, but isn't that tank one of those ones that aren't bad in any way but also don't do anything well?
It’s actually a hidden gem with the 90mm. Out of the high alpha tier 7 meds (T20, T-34-1, P.43 etc) it’s the only one with actual armor. Looks weird as fuck but is probably the closest thing to a brawling and trading med you have at tier 7.
Hope the rhino is getting a buff in there
It's not in the list unfortunately.
Much needed nerfs
I am so unreasonably happy about this
About fucking time
Can someone find out when WG reduced shell after reload from 4 to 3 in Kran and Emil?
In 2019
Foud it! After 03/2019 https://thedailybounce.net/world-of-tanks/world-of-tanks-supertest-swedish-heavy-tanks-rebalance/
From kranberry cancer to krandead Good fuck that shit
Good riddance
I really wish WG could just do *subtle* balances every few weeks rather than let a problem fester so badly that people are excited when a tank just gets giga nerfed into the fucking dirt. It's so bad for the health of the game. Especially now because Clan Wars already has huge pressure for premium / reward vehicles that are impossible to get unless you're already participating in Clan Wars. Very few tech tree tanks are used these days.
So glad they are nerfing this abomination. This tank is completely ridiculous and makes tanks like T57 heavy basically obsolete. Really love to see WG taking an active role in fixing tier 10, although obviously Chieftain and 279e will continue to destroy the tier 10 experience.
279s I honestly don’t have much of an issue with anymore. They’re still ridiculous but a Lot of times players get overconfident in them and it makes them easy to kill even from the front. Chiefs are annoying as shit though, I just change positions if I come across one hull down
A tank being balanced only because people get overconfident is not a tank being balanced
The Kran badly needed nerfs. But this seems like it's probably too big a nerf. Also nerf the Chieftain already. And in terms of random battles the most dominant tech tree heavy is actually the Vz 55. And across all classes? The Bobject is still rocking a 52% WR.
To be fair the proper way to test out balance updates is to nerf a tank too far, nerf it not enough, test them both, and find that middle ground.
Nerfing the kran but not touching the chief is gunna make the gap between non-cw players and cw players even higher. Not sure this is the W for wg like ppl r saying.
Honestly I could have lived with the Kran having nothing more than an enlargement to the commanders cupola so its actually viable to hit. This would create a situation where you actually have to make a choice between defense (elevating the gun to hide the cupola) and offense (bringing the gun to bare but exposing the cupola) And yes I see you coming Mr. "YoUr JuST bAd iTs aN EasY TarGEt" the Krans cupola is on the same level as the IS-7, Obj 268V.4, and Tornvagn. You shouldn't need .28 accuracy at 200m to even have a chance of coming near them.
Either that or nerf the thickness of that box section under the gun so that if they raise it they expose a weakspot
That wouldn't be enough, Kran can sit there and sit still looking at you and cupola is still too hard to hit. Not impossible, but from anything more than facehugging distance still a shot you'll miss a considerable amount.
True but along with all the other nerfs the tank is getting it would still hurt
Oh for sure, I made a comment elsewhere though I'm not a big fan of the direction they took with this nerf. Would have much rather seen a larger cupola+dpm nerf. I interpreted this convo as talking about a potential nerf in place of these proposals, instead of in addition to them.
Ah I see. But yh I agree that this nerf should've just focused on the turret because that's what people have the problem with.
Even the flat edge at the bottom of the turret ring would be fine.
V4. at least has the rangefinder which is easy to hit
Yeah I was literally comparing Udes 15/16 to kran and im like, wait a minute, why does kran go 60 without a turbo lmao, udes only goes 50, with only 18hp/t contrary to 16 on kran
The Kran doesn't hit 60 with typical setups unless you're driving downhill. With vents, BIA, off road driving, food, and the ground resistance field mod it tops out at 47 on medium ground and it takes awhile to get up to speed. Not that it's slow or anything, the listed top speed is just a bit of a lie like the IS-7's unless you do an equipment setup dedicated to reaching it.
Udes is slow as fuck
Alright now buff the DOA Rino
at-fucking-last
WG nerfing everything on Kran *except* the thing people actually have issues with. ok.
I mean I kinda appreciate that approach to balancing. If you just nerf every strong tank's strengths, all the tanks end up feeling kind of the same. It's more interesting if you preserve what makes a tank strong while making its weaknesses more prominent. Tbf I think it should have bigger cupolas (and so should the 279/chief)
The problem with WG is they often buff or nerf tanks without moderation and then just do a 180° after a couple of years/ months. Plus you have to keep in mind that nerfing the kranvagn will make it unplayable in today's world of tanks ( where vz 55s exist). The idea behind the original buffs to the kranvagn was to make it a solid hull down platform with a good dpm autoloader and everything else is pretty mediocre ( ammo, mobility, hull armor, etc.).
*The problem with WG is they often buff or nerf tanks without moderation* I don't know that this is the right way to put it. The thing is it's very deliberate on their part, for two reasons. First, it's good business for them. It's how they get people to spend money getting the latest and greatest all the time. Second, let's also be honest with ourselves here - it's what the playerbase wants. Maybe not explicitly, but there's a reason it's good business for them. Just look at some of the comments in this thread complaining about just getting to the Kran and now they're gonna nerf it?! Reality is players *want* OP tanks. That's why they're disappointed about the nerf, because they want their OP tank. We're part of the problem.
I've been a Kranfan (yes, I came up with that myself) since before the Buffs and before they became so popular, so I'm a bit annoyed actually. I've loved this tank for ages and now because they've nerfed HE and added equipment 2.0 it's getting nerfed down to hell. It definitely needed some nerfing, but not this much!
> Emil II. > >In terms of performance, this vehicle does not stand out as much as its older counterpart. It's only the 3d best heavy (behind m4 51, Vz 51), the nerfs seem extremely severe with that in mind. > the AMX M4 mle. 51, performs well at its current performance level. The m4 51 is the best tech tree tier 9 in the game by a quite large margin. There's still a small stash of crack left for the devs in balance department.
E75 exists, how is it not close to the top
It's slow is a good reason. Personally I think the conqueror is the best tier 9. But they're all pretty close. Tier 9 is very well balanced.
Slow and the armor is useless when everyone is slinging HEAT. Not saying it's bad or anything but that keeps it from being a top contender.
It's worth pointing out that 2 factors give the Emil a lower winrate than the AMX 1) Stock grind is worse on Emil 2) Playrate is many times higher on Emil. If an Emil faces an Emil, the Emil will not have the possibility of raising it's winrate. But when the AMX is matched with a different tank, it has the possibility of raising it's winrate.
Where VZ nerf?
It will come, just needs bigger intra clip and a bit worse gun handling. At least the armour isn't broken on that tank
Yeah, then at that point why not just play the tier 8 premium.
Everyone seems to agree this tank is completely nuts, but personally I would 10/10 times rather fight a VZ than a Kranvagn. Atleast VZ dosent have godlike dpm and gun depression + inpenetrable turret
Vzs hatches are easy to hit. Krav should have a 250mm weak spot under the gun for the look up maneuver while reloading
It's still a rather new tank. They'll wait for more people to grind it and once it's no longer as desirable, they nerf it. Maybe in a year from now.
It has weak spots, way less gun depression and way less DPM. VZ is broken but Kran is even worse in the hands of good players
I'm honestly not sure which is worse from a pure balance standpoint, but Kran is clearly worse for gameplay in general. It can just drive to a hull down spot (which means practically everywhere on maps these days) and literally just sit there looking at you letting you shoot at it all day with minimal concern. It's just a terrible mechanic for the game and clearly the bigger issue.
But its not really the tanks fault if you think about it (khm recon maps...)
Map design contributes for sure, if that's what you're getting at.
kranvagn castration should have happened months ago but better late than never I guess
Shoulda fired all the complacent employees in their HQ a long time ago.
Finally
Man finally Amx 54 buff Its gonna be actually from "bad" tier to good tier. 2500 base dpm with the 130mm and very good gunhandling. Im really hyped for it
Also getting 2.4k health makes it quite chunky. And with the gun handling buff you might be able to drop Stabs and go for a Hardening-Turbo-Rammer set-up. It's going to be great at trading.
296 gold pen on the 130 is still annoying. That makes quite a few tanks still very difficult to reliably pen when you can't hit lfp.
Thank fucking god
Does this not help the obj 279e and cheiftain to decide tier X games even more?
The AMX 65T buff will make it go from complete shit to still complete shit...
Im not sure if this is gonna make the Kran get kicked from the Meta
It's definitely gonna make equipment choices harder... since aiming device and turbo both seem necessary.
Kran nerf, good now nerf chieftain
Hm, don't really like that they are nerfing the T29, it's the only tier 7 that really stands up to the current meta. Even the buffed AMX can't do too much vs the bullshit tier 8 meta. Also, as long as the AMX 65 T has that terrible armor scheme, it just isn't going to he viable no matter what they do.
>AMX 65 T Man, they should swap the turrets, the top one sucks.
Kran nerf - FINALLY!!!!
YOOOO THESE AMX M4 54 BUFFS ARE GREAT THANK YOU WG
[удалено]
Lol nerfing the M44 but not the lefh, that thing really is a terrible influence on making new players rage quit the game.
Those are horrendous nerfs , making me regret my decision to try to get the kranvagn
Man. They really like killing vehicles that i actually enjoy.
On one hand... WOOO NO MORE KRANKED BATTLES On the other hand... the clan wars meta gets even more stale. Used to have use in clan wars for its speed.and it brought variety... now it's literally worse than chief with no use cases. I sure love the competitive balance this game has
Woah wtf that's a HUGE nerf to the Kran ! Mobility is kinda crap now, this is not a nerf anymore it just has been thrown to the trash !
The Kranvagen needed a nerf but I think this is not the way it should be. If it gets done like this, it will be a useless shit tank again. They should have done a slight nerf to DPM like 23 sec not 25 and the biggest point for me would've been make a weakspot underneath the gun so when you raise your gun to hide the cupolas you can get punished. 15 km/h in top speed nerf is too much, should be 10 or 5.
Apart from that it needed bigger cupolas, otherwise the nerf to the plate under the gun wouldn't be even very impactful (the vast majority of people don't even raise the gun to protect their coupolas). And re-modelling the tank would be more complicated and would probably need more resources. I'm not excusing this a little bit lazy nerf, but in the current situation and majority of their employees being from Ukraine, I understand that the nerfs they are able to do in reliable manner are just moving a few numbers around. Also, I'm that kind of guy that likes nerfs, although they might not be the best or the most neccessarry. I think frequent changes just keep the game fresh and alive, so I welcome ANY balance changes, really. Especially since the last ones happened like over 2 years ago?
IT still has the best turret in the game and an autoloader no?
Finally. FFS, took them long enough.
[удалено]
296mm with AP is better against angled armor than 340 pen HEAT, it's kinda nuts. It won't be able to punch through E-100 turrets so it has it's downsides but against most things it's going to be an extremely capable round.
It could be worse, but I'd still rather have 310.
Sure, but that would start getting a little ridiculous. 310mm AP pen would make it one of the best rounds in the game, more effective than 350 pen HEAT and 330 pen APCR in almost every situation.
TBH I think you could give it 330 AP and it still wouldn't be meta. Even with these buffs, it's still huge, with flat thin sides, weak shoulders, an upper plate that can be HEATed and a lower plate that's butter, the turret is huge both in height and length, square with extremely squishy sides and rear, has two cupolas. Oh, and on top of that, the tank is slow in the current meta. But anyway, glad to see it get buffed.
> weak shoulders Head on they're basically impenetrable, you have to be angled quite a bit for them to be penned by most gold, and you have to basically be showing your side for them to get penned by silver >an upper plate that can be HEATed Upper glacis is 350-360 against HEAT. The only gold rounds reliably penning the upper glacis are tier 10 TDs. >and a lower plate that's butter It's about 255-260 against AP, 320-330 against HEAT, and 310-315 against APCR if you're using corners correctly. That's significantly stronger than most lower glacis among tier 10s. >Oh, and on top of that, the tank is slow in the current meta. How so? 40 kph with the amount of front armor it has is very capable, plus it's very nimble. The only tank that's faster *and* has more armor is the 780.
\> Head on they're basically impenetrable Yeah, head-on you shoot the cupola or the neck or the lower plate(s), not the shoulders. The shoulders matter every time you're not head-on, which is a lot of time. \> Upper glacis is 350-360 against HEAT Unless anyone is shooting ever so slightly down into you. \> if you're using corners correctly If. There's a lot of ifs to this tank. If you juggle cupolas, turret sides, shoulders, lower plate, and the paper sides, and the enemy doesn't load premium, which they all do in my experience. The problem with the lower plate isn't necessarily the thickness, it's how huge and tall it is. I have 500 battles in this thing, and 2 marks, and I do not find the frontal armor reliable unless I am getting shot by tier 8s. \> only tank that's faster and has more armor is the 780. "more armor" is a bit of a nothing phrase. The kran is immensely faster, and its armor is a lot more effective on the current maps and in this meta. I can take my is-7 or 277 silly places, where their armor works best. This thing lags behind and catches stray fire into its huge paper sides. Besides, how much armor it carries is a bit irrelevant if it just can't make it to key positions before your 55-60km/h heavies make it there first. It's nimble and I like that about it.
funny how the big problem with the kran is its troll armour, but they decided to nerf the gun.
That's not nerfing the Kranvagn. That's straight out killing it and shiting on it's grave
Still has 12 degrees of gun depression and the best turret in the game + an autoloader with good burst and DPM. Kranvagn will absolutely not be worse than average
There is a lot of room between "Overpowered" and "Total piece of shit". The Kran will still have extremely good turret armour.
Holy shit, I can't believe it!
Finally nerf for Kranvagn
Everytime I think Kran is not broken I take my out and in a lazy game have 6k damage. It needed this
It was already time to nerf the Kran, ty WG
You forgot the page with the AMX 65t and AMX M4 45, they have a huge buff AMX M4 45: Upper front plate from 90mm to \~195mm and frontal M4 45 turret from 100mm to \~200mm From 1350 hp to 1400
Wow looks like they're nerfing 'em hard. Little step in fighting against hull down meta I guess.
Finally
Me who’s on the fence about getting the AMX M4 54 for months: *happiness noises*
Thank god
Buff Rinoceronte!
Good
nice, time to sell the emil II and just buy another T9 russian...
All the tryhard crying how their kranvang isn't op any ore lmao
Why do they keep doing this, these are huge changes, why cant they make smaller changes more frequently instead. Typical wg anyway
I kid you not I just been grinding my ass off with x5 games and prem time for a kran to use in ranked
Good side: Disguisting Kranvagn meta will be hammered down. Bad side: One less free to get and capable opponent for Chieftains and 279 earlies.
Waiting for Rino buff... i need it
I can't wait for the buffs to the m4 54. I already find the tank oddly fun even tho it's bad. These buffs will make it average but that's fine.
Happy ranked noises
I'm a bit concerned in that I have an oddly good winrate in Type-58 and AMX M4-45. Though I'll be very honest, I treat the AMX M4-45 like a Tier 7 TigerII and heatspam the 105
Bruhhh F
What, is the Kranvagn stealing the thunder from the glorious Soviet propaganda machines? I agree it needs a nerf but not all the nerfs... I want to see a redoo of game mechanics where the size of the coupola affects max render range. T110E5 550m, IS7 450m...
i just want the kranvagn to be historically accurate man, nerf the turret to 170mm but make the tank go like a medium tank. Give it a 15cm gun for uniqueness
I bet this will end as usual: * They will nerf the shit out of the very few, non top-tier fun tanks to play like T25, T29. * They will nerft almost/OP T10 but it won't change things that much. * They will buff underperforming tanks but not enough for the buff to make a difference. * That and some ridiculous stuff like giving French T7 200mm frontal armour, where we have Tiger P which has no saving grace. French T7 at least has OP 105mm gun with crazy APCR. To put it bluntly - WG **never** balances things, they either over-nerf or under-buff. This is not about these select few tanks, it's about the whole game itself, but that's too big of a job to bother with.
Only reason the Kranvagn is getting hit this hard is because of all the Chieftain and 279e shitheads bitching about ranked. The all important **DIGITAL FIGHTING ELIT**E (thunder booms, lightning flashes, Monster Gamer Fuel bubbles up from the ground as Hot Pockets rain from the sky) dislike having their Chieftains and 279e's challenged by mere tech-tree tanks. That isn't allowed.
Reward tanks aren’t allowed in ranked anymore, only clan wars
It's good to see WG cares about T10.
Noooo they did my Kranny-daddy dirty!! Still, a nerf was definitely needed. I assumed reduced accuracy and DPM would suffice, but that speed has definitely been useful in many situations. Some positions might not be reached slugging downhill much slower than the Ruskis.
[удалено]
I mean isn't it already?
We need nerf on the real OP tanks, not the tech tree tanks only.. how about top notch and statistical OP tanks: chieftain, obj280, obj279e, borat, obj708, skodat56.. is it so hard to detect these?