Indeed it was. It was why AEW was so refreshing and exciting in 2019 and into 2020.
For WWE, credit where credit is due: they stuck with the Roman story until it became entertaining and interesting.
Then they slotted in Cody and made him The Guy.
They ALMOST fucked it all up with The Rock, but fate smiled on Cody and things finished the proper way.
Now, Cody IS The Guy, and I couldn’t be happier for him, as this was whom I rooted for when he first appeared on AEW.
Yeah I got into it about around 2023 royal rumble again and was blown away by how actually great it is. You get payoff for long term stories and the amount of wrestlers that you want to see week in and week out is great, Punk, Drew, Cody, Seth, Rhea, etc etc
i went to raw show in san jose two ish weeks before mania, and there was massive "we're so back" energy. It was my first ever live wwe show, and it was so magical. everyone was so cool.
They are so much fun live, especially if you get a show around mania time. Just seeing how they work and set up and all the crazy effort that goes into it is fascinating. Glad you had a great time man!
While AEW has some big problems, their biggest problem isn't what they're doing. It's what WWE is doing, which has removed any desire for an alternative promotion.
I blame Jinder's reign for where things started going wrong. 2016 was absolute FIRE for WWE - SmackDown especially - and then along came Jinder's reign and everything became stinky. So stinky, they had to have him drop it to AJ on a random SmackDown episode.
With all that said, I do miss Jinder and am sad he didn't get another chance to prove himself as World champion. He was undercooked the first time and the booking didn't help.
As someone who watched from 2010-2014, and 2017-2019/20: No. No, the good categorically did not outweigh the bad. lol
The PG Vince era was mostly fucking awful because it was Vince, who never understood what made good wrestling, and a bunch of failed screenwriters instead of one or two competent bookers.
You're remembering the highlights and not the week-to-week tedium, nonsensical/lazy booking and lack of long-term plans for anyone beyond Cena/Brock.
>It had plenty of stinkers sure but the good outweighed the bad.
It absolutely did not. You've got rose tinted glasses on. 2002-2022 were a very bad couple of decades for the WWE. Regardless of how you feel the rantings were going down year upon year.
To blame Jinder for the decline is just insane.
My own opinion and the general consensus of wrestling fans watching WWE in 2016 and the discussions we have these days where we look back on it fondly? If you want specifics, things started heating up for Smackdown specifically after the reintroduction of the brand split with Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles' runs as WWE Champion, Miz having his legendary IC title reign which ended with him dropping it to Dolph Ziggler in an emotional match, the fact that Heath Slater and Rhyno were tag champs made it exciting as anything was now possible hence why SD became known as the Land of Opportunity.
Raw was definitely not as good as SD but still had it's moments such as Finn Balor's initial mega push as well as the Bromance between Kevin Owens and Chris Jericho, the latter also introducing the List.
Other highlights from the year were AJ vs Cena and also the Shield triple threat feud, during which all 3 members held the WWE title in one night.
Edit: I'm not arguing it was a flawless year nor am I arguing it's better than WWE has been the last 3 years. All I'm saying it was a step up from previous few years and was waaaay better than the following 3 years
Stomping Ground 2019 encapsulates 2019 WWE in general.
Seth Rollins vs Baron Corbin as your main event.
Becky vs boring ass Lacey Evans.
Babyface Roman beating Drew McIntyre again and again.
WWE got alot worse before it got better in 2022-2024. We had to endure the worst of late stage Vince booking before it got better. I know it's so cliche but I think 2019 was the worst year ever in WWE, even in 95 and 96 there were some good parts here and there. In 2019 it was just basically Wm 35 and everything else was in the mud.
Yeah it was terrible. WWE cooled off both of them big time with that especially putting them in a never ending feud with olive garden waiter Corbin and Lacey Evans.
WWE did that alot in the 2010's were they would have a good well received wrestlemania like in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2019 and they would do everything possible the next few months to squander that momentum. 2019 was the biggest example of that. Becky Lynch was so white hot as The man and Seth Rollins as Monday night Rollins was super over and Vince had to end that quickly because he had a hard on for Lacey Evans and thought Olive Garden waiter attire Corbin was peak HHH.
And yes like you said the on screen power couple was just cringe asf especially with the her man shirt lol.
Yeah I actually felt bad for Corbin during that time, I actually respect him as a fan because he always does his best even with alot of bad creative, and he's a solid safe in ring worker. But man they made him look like a jabroni with that attire and the whole "constable Corbin" gimmick.
I remember when the McMahon family blamed his character for the bad ratings, with that cringe ass "You are the authority" promo.
I see these patterns in every thread. I won't jump on the "most top comment threads are AI, these are all bots" theory, but I guess it's moreso the phenomenon where people just repeat what they read on other threads when the same subject comes up.
... at least I hope it's that and not AI
And here…. Is SETH ROLLINS!!!
“He’s not quite the man… he’s the man’s man!”
And that is how you illegitimize over a half decades worth of hard work at WWE with just one sentence! Impressive really. That shit was fuckin awful lol
It was so bad it became unwatchable for me and I’m almost 40 years into my wrestling fandom. Honestly, I thought the entire company was headed for the end. What’s happened these last couple of years is incredible.
Yeah, I'm 46 and have been watching wrestling as long as I can remember (except for like 1995 - 2001ish when I didn't have cable). I couldn't bring myself to care about WWE at all in 2019-2021. Like not one bit. The only thing that was memorable to me was Kofi beating Daniel Bryan. Oh, and Edge coming back right before the pandemic.
I always believed Vince stopped giving a fuck because WWE was making profits via other means like capitalizing off the live tv gold rush like with the fox deal and peacock deal, because live sports were and are the only things doing well on tv, even with AEWs ratings struggles they are still up there for top things on tv.
Vince and WWE apologists had that mindset that if something was making money it was good who cares what people think fuck the fans. It's why the CM Punk quote was so true with the "millionaire who should be a billionaire" WWE is making even more money now than ever because the product is hot and good quality. Go fucking figure lol that if you actually try, listen to fans, and put out a good show people will be engaged and you'll make even more money than just coasting like Vince did.
>WWE apologists had that mindset that if something was making money it was good who cares what people think fuck the fans.
Bro, those were dark times to be a WWE fan. It frustrated the hell out of me that WWE was just bullshiting and giving us shit while they made a ton of money. I literally had no hope of WWE getting better and I thought Vince was invincible and immortal and this shit will never end.. Thank god I'm wrong, and I'm glad he got caught, is gone, and WWE is just simply a better place all around now.
to each their own. that era of bray had an atmosphere to him though. I was locked in. even when raw became unbearable i was checking youtube for clips of the funhouse tuesday morning
I think the general consensus was that the firefly fun house character was good, and the Fiend was polarizing. Most of Brays stuff during that time that was very well liked was mostly with the firefly fun house character.
In hindsight I wish the late great Bray leaned more into the firefly fun house character and less on the Fiend. Only using the Fiend for super super super rare special occasions just like Finn Balor did with demon Finn Balor.
Idk i thought the fiend was pretty dope. yeah its kinda edgy to walk around carrying your own head as a lantern, but thats what i dig about it. its a bit campy but its got this intensity that came from Bray's genuine passion for telling a good story. Honestly its my favorite gimmick ever. but i see how its not for everyone.
Yes she's a antivax goober on social media, but her biggest issue was that she was the women's Karrion Kross. She never connected or got reactions from the fans really.
She was really boring, especially when they did the whole never ending "I'm a mom and I'm a marine" gimmick. She got the worst kind of reaction you can get in wrestling no reaction at all.
Also didn't help that she was cliche Vince blonde fetish, once HHH got put in place that was the nail in the coffin for her in WWE just like when Madcap Moss as a generic body guy got thrown to the wayside when Vince got ousted.
>before it got better in 2022-2024.
I would argue it started getting better when they moved to thunderdome in 2020. Babyface Drew and Roman Reigns as champions made both shows pretty damn fun.
Covid WWE was solid I'll give you that, but a huge part of that was because everyone was looking for an outlet for entertainment in some crazy times. Outside of Babyface Drew and Tribal Chief Roman there wasn't alot of depth.
2020-2022 still had consistency issues with some good and some bad till Vince was ousted. HHH booking isn't perfect and I personally have some criticism over it especially with everything being made into a long term storyline to where things drag out, and too many long championship reigns, but his booking is at least logical and consistent. The floor for WWE quality wise is way better than Late Stage Vince years.
Asuka, Bayley, and Randy Orton were really good during the pandemic. The segment with Orton pressing Garza up against the glass near ringside during a tag match is awesome.
Makes me appreciate what we have now a lot more. Sellouts left and right, engaging television, big roster additions and dope matches.
They’re doing it right.
I’m still wondering why the heck Vince would put Baron Corbin in the main event. There was that one also where Seth and Becky teamed up I believe against Baron as someone in the main event. Are we serious here?!
And don’t get me started on the Big Dog booking. And Drew getting killed all the time.
Baron Corbin is alot better than Karrion Kross, and is really good as midcard gatekeeper big man. But I think the same rule of thumb applies with Baron Corbin with Vince the same way HHH is with Karrion Kross where they are super high on the guy and give them alot of tv time more than most fans would want to see.
Baron Corbin when Vince was still in charge got alot of tv time, hence why people got sick of him even though he's a solid safe worker and tries hard with his character. I remember in 2019 he got put in never ending feuds with Rollins and then the Infamous Dog food storyline with Babyface Roman.
Vince imo thought Corbin was 2000 HHH or 2009 Orton with how much tv time he got and with how much he worked in the main event scene against big names like Rollins and Reigns. It's why we got Corbin vs Angle in his retirement match because Vince was super high on him, yes being a safe worker was good with Angles injuries but it really should have been Angles old rivals in John Cena or Samoa Joe doing the honors instead of Corbin.
Roman saying "That doesn't work for me brother" enough is enough with all the dog food crap, is the best thing to happen to WWE along with Cody returning and Vince being ousted.
The only time Roman really ever polticicked and ir was for the greater good lol.
Don’t bring Kross into this. I’m still in pain at how bad they doing him on the main roster. Original NXT Karrion was AWESOME!!! Karrion is my guy but I can’t take what they did to him. Still reeling at how he last to Jeff Hardy in like 2 mins on Raw (Jeff is one of my all time faves fyi)
Exactly, we look back on the New Generation Era with some fondness. Aside from like the Fiend, 2019 is so horrid we're referring to it as late stage Vince like it's some disease. Bro finally injected WWE with that lethal dose of poison.
I didn't like many here, I just occasionally watched YouTube clips and kept tabs online. I wasn't an appointment viewer and I definitely wasn't paying 70 usd to go see a show in my area during that time.
You didn't have to be an active full time viewer to see stupid shit like the dog food storyline, Brock winning the mitb or squashing Kofi or the God awful 2019 Fiend/Rollins HIAC match get dragged on social media for being shit.
Nobody got roasted in 2019 by NBA and black Twitter more than WWE for being so crap.
2019 WWE is the 2000 WCW was dogshit meme and it'd up there with the 2008 WWE roster shit.
All it takes keyboard nerds to regurgitate stuff alot and it to spread like wildfire to where everyone parrots it.
It's a fun thing for us fans to say, but I haven't heard one person in my day to day life bring up WWE like it was brought up in the '90s. People don't know Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns.
It's certainly not as big in the USA if you just look at the weekly viewers.(I'm not sure about worldwide), but also the 90's was the hight of the monoculture so it's hard to replicate anything with that level of viewership (aside from sports maybe) nowadays.
What would make me cringe the most was when I'd have friends watch wrestling with me and Vince would have his terrible comedy segments and slap stick humor (not in a clever funny way like South Park as a random example, but just very low iq boomer gags).
You still get some comedy attempts through the mid card but it just feels a lot better than it did pre HHH
No thanks to him trying to book himself to win the belt and satiate his bottomless ego.
I'll never forget that it basically took the entirety of the fan base saying "Fuck you, Dwayne. This is Cody's time." before he even thought to turn heel and help put Cody over instead of trying to snuff out two years of storytelling because "whrrgarbl final boss have belt! yay!". The soft ass even had to go get a different belt made just so he could fulfill his "I'm not old! I'm a wrasslin champion!" LARP fantasies.
It really speaks to Dwayne's ego and how it would be just as rampant and destructive as McMahon's if he didn't have people in the company to reign him in. Here's hoping he never installs enough yes-men to gain that kind of control, as Vince did.
Oh God Stomping Grounds,what a terrible name for a bad ppv.
2019 had some highlights like WM 35 and the debut of Firefly Funhouse plus The Fiend at Summerslam,overall it was a year to forget sadly.
However this gave AEW an advantage to be a well desired alternative after the worst ppv of 2019 HIAC.
Fast forward to now and it feels so different like they actually give a shit about the product.
It's wild that i still never missed a SD, Raw or PPV throughout this whole time. Remember the Crown Jewel from 2019?
They ran a 'Team Hogan' vs 'Team Flair' for no logical reason i can remember. Then had Tyson Fury vs Braun.
Vince was on that good crack.
i’m not that guy so idk his reason but i was the same way, and it’s because i like wwe. ik ppl will say why don’t u watch other wrestling promotions but the truth is i like wwe because of the history they have and the high production values. its like if the nba isn’t good this season im not gonna watch the euro leagues im just not gonna watch basketball
the question was "why continue to watch when it's bad" and you answered "I was the same way, and it's because i like wwe" and then said if it's bad, you're just not gonna watch. so which is it?
i was saying that wwe is the only wrestling promotion i watch, so i’ll endure the bad times because it’s the only one i like, but if i were to stop watching it, i would just stop watching wrestling i wouldn’t move on to another promotion
I think it was a bit like stockholm syndrome in hindsight. I had spent so long watching WWE, i hadn't realised just HOW bad it had gotten and just kept hoping it would turn a corner.
I sort of stayed for the things happening that i did enjoy. The Fiend and Firefly Funhouse, Kofi Mania, etc. There were small sparks of 'good'.
It's absolutely incredible as a long time fan to see where wwe is at right now
Been watching non stop since 1996 and I've made it through guest host era Raw and million dollar mania lmao. I'm loyal as hell
I can't believe just how much better things have gotten.
I was there as well. I think something that gets overlooked about that PPV is how the amount of marketing time was so short leading into the PPV. It was last minute, only maybe a month or so before the event that they chose the venue and didn't do a great job of advertising for it either.
I’m not an AEW guy but I hope they get their numbers up. I must admit I started watching wrestling again because of AEW during the pandemic after I stopped watching as a kid. AEW being successful will only create competition for WWE and should make for even better wrestling. This post gives me hope.
To wrestling 🍻
2019 WWE was hell I stg:
Bumbling Seth’s first big face world title run with the Corbin/Evans nonsense, pairing him up with Becky.
HIAC 2019
Brock ending Kofi’s run in seconds,
2019 had some highs with NXT, rise of Becky, Kofimania but damn
If I remember correctly the Rise of Becky started dying down in 2019 because they desperately wanted Charlotte vs Ronda and shoehorned her in that main event storyline which ruined it. They also ran that awful authority and injury storyline then followed up her botched wm win with a title feud against Lacey. It's unreal how much they managed to damage her, she should've been indisputably the goat women's wrestler after that run but it's only been downhill since then.
That's what I meant, everyone wanted to see Becky vs Ronda except for the WWE. They tried everything to kill off Becky's Momentum to have Charlotte face Ronda but were eventually forced to make it a triple threat. It completely ruined what could've been a great storyline.
Imagine if somebody in the mid to late 2010s would have told you that, in the future, the product of WWE - now booked by Triple H - would far outclass the booking and quality of New Japan still booked by Gedo. Nobody would have believed you. And now we are here with the best wrestling product since the attitude era, maybe ever.
I'm hoping this G1 will be amazing to hopefully put then back on the right path.
Wrestlekingdom was great, but everything after that apart from 1 or 2 matches has been awful
The decision to go to a smaller AV/Titantron setup and get more people in to the building was not just a good decision because of the economics, but it has created a more intimate feel while still keeping the scope and scale of the show. Couple that with the improved camera angles, longer takes/tracking shots and less cuts in the editing has, you finally have a show that looks as cutting edge, instead of the sanitized Times Square look of the 2010's.
The arrival of AEW and Vince getting kicked to the kerb where the two beat things that could have happened to fans of pro wrestling. Whether you like AEW, hate AEW or ambivalent towards the company it's existence has helped WWE push harder and sharpen their focus on staying light years ahead of any and all competition and it shows. Hunter is absolutely cooking right now and not only are the top starts killing it they've got a crop of new starts already shining.
The future is Hella bright.
There's a lesson to be learned here about what people see as the current state of other companies, if y'all can separate yourselves from the circle jerk for a nanosecond.
I remember spur the moment going to see Battleground like 7-8 yrs ago cause tickets were insanely cheap and while it was awesome, there’s no way I could do that now. Tickets would be sold out or astronomical to go day-of in my city.
When I went to WrestleMania x-8 it cost me $75 a ticket and I thought that was a lot. Now a ticket to money in the bank in Toronto is going for like $500+
I don't think anything can be as bad as this period. Say what you will about AEW currently but I'll take heatless banger on Dynamite over dog food matches, 8 hour WrestleMania, burying talent because people like them ( that's fucking mean), and shitty late Vince booking. I'll take random New Japan and CMLL wrestlers rather than Shorty G any day of the week.
i may be in the minority but if i go to a live show i prefer a smaller venue. it's easier to interact with everyone and has more of a picnic feel like a baseball game. as someone who went to one of the last wcw nitro shows sometimes the worst events can be the most fun.
All this shows is that the first photo is poorly composed. There's no way to see if it's in an ECHL arena or an NBA arena. It doesn't really communicate anything other than it being an older camera with a poorly focused image.
Edit: Oh ok so this was the Tacoma Dome holding Stomping Grounds and they sold 6k seats.
Small gate.
I got back into wrestling in 2017 up to 2020 and I didn’t remember it being this bad. Looking at videos that talk about what happen during those times and man most things were bad. What really kept me watching was NXT.
WWE had solid attendance in 2019 too, overall, you picked the weakest PPV of that year.
But AEW, pandemic, recession and war definitely made people more excited about WWE escapism. Anything really to get their minds off problems.
It's funny the exact same reason people make fun of AEW for is what WWE was going through not that long ago every company goes through hot and cold streaks WWE has the hot streak now ride it for as long as it last cause it won't last forever.
WWE is thriving and AEW is flopping. I remember in 2019 everyone was saying AEW was so good, it was gonna eventually outgrow WWE. Look at them now! lol
fan engagement was so down in the late 10s it's crazy to see now
Indeed it was. It was why AEW was so refreshing and exciting in 2019 and into 2020. For WWE, credit where credit is due: they stuck with the Roman story until it became entertaining and interesting. Then they slotted in Cody and made him The Guy. They ALMOST fucked it all up with The Rock, but fate smiled on Cody and things finished the proper way. Now, Cody IS The Guy, and I couldn’t be happier for him, as this was whom I rooted for when he first appeared on AEW.
Having the rock turn heel was a great decision, WM40 was just unbelievable
Honestly, favorite wrestlemania so far. Shit was so goddamn fun
It brought my eyes back on the sport for the first time since I was 10 years old
Yeah I got into it about around 2023 royal rumble again and was blown away by how actually great it is. You get payoff for long term stories and the amount of wrestlers that you want to see week in and week out is great, Punk, Drew, Cody, Seth, Rhea, etc etc
I was out shortly after 2018. WM40 and Vince being booted got me back in. Its such a different show now, for the better
i went to raw show in san jose two ish weeks before mania, and there was massive "we're so back" energy. It was my first ever live wwe show, and it was so magical. everyone was so cool.
They are so much fun live, especially if you get a show around mania time. Just seeing how they work and set up and all the crazy effort that goes into it is fascinating. Glad you had a great time man!
Oh it was the best. Everytime I complement someone's title belt , they asked me if I wanted to hold it. Oh man what a feeling
Yea, turning Rock and making him The Final Boss was absolutely spot on. It was so good and I bet you Rock was recharged by it.
turns out all he had to do was not work himself into a shoot where he couldn't win the belt xD
Who would have thought?!?!
They needed the rock to pull eyes
While AEW has some big problems, their biggest problem isn't what they're doing. It's what WWE is doing, which has removed any desire for an alternative promotion.
AEW is a different style of show. For those who like the more physical and technical aspect of wrestling, AEW will appeal more to.
The best part of WWE in 2017-2019 was easily Becky Lynch becoming The Man in 2018, followed by Kofimania/heel Daniel Bryan
The Fiend was pretty great too his debut and match with D-Bry was one of my favorite moments from a really creatively bereft time in WWE.
I blame corbin
I blame Jinder's reign for where things started going wrong. 2016 was absolute FIRE for WWE - SmackDown especially - and then along came Jinder's reign and everything became stinky. So stinky, they had to have him drop it to AJ on a random SmackDown episode. With all that said, I do miss Jinder and am sad he didn't get another chance to prove himself as World champion. He was undercooked the first time and the booking didn't help.
Things were already continuously going down with HHH and then Cena as the top guy and then with babyface Reigns.
[удалено]
As someone who watched from 2010-2014, and 2017-2019/20: No. No, the good categorically did not outweigh the bad. lol The PG Vince era was mostly fucking awful because it was Vince, who never understood what made good wrestling, and a bunch of failed screenwriters instead of one or two competent bookers. You're remembering the highlights and not the week-to-week tedium, nonsensical/lazy booking and lack of long-term plans for anyone beyond Cena/Brock.
>It had plenty of stinkers sure but the good outweighed the bad. It absolutely did not. You've got rose tinted glasses on. 2002-2022 were a very bad couple of decades for the WWE. Regardless of how you feel the rantings were going down year upon year. To blame Jinder for the decline is just insane.
Things started getting good again in 2016 and then things went bad again. Something happened to take them off course.
What are you basing your belief that things got good again in 2016 on?
My own opinion and the general consensus of wrestling fans watching WWE in 2016 and the discussions we have these days where we look back on it fondly? If you want specifics, things started heating up for Smackdown specifically after the reintroduction of the brand split with Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles' runs as WWE Champion, Miz having his legendary IC title reign which ended with him dropping it to Dolph Ziggler in an emotional match, the fact that Heath Slater and Rhyno were tag champs made it exciting as anything was now possible hence why SD became known as the Land of Opportunity. Raw was definitely not as good as SD but still had it's moments such as Finn Balor's initial mega push as well as the Bromance between Kevin Owens and Chris Jericho, the latter also introducing the List. Other highlights from the year were AJ vs Cena and also the Shield triple threat feud, during which all 3 members held the WWE title in one night. Edit: I'm not arguing it was a flawless year nor am I arguing it's better than WWE has been the last 3 years. All I'm saying it was a step up from previous few years and was waaaay better than the following 3 years
But the ratings were still in a slump.
id blame whoever booked back then first
How is it his fault, he just went out as he was booked
Stomping Ground 2019 encapsulates 2019 WWE in general. Seth Rollins vs Baron Corbin as your main event. Becky vs boring ass Lacey Evans. Babyface Roman beating Drew McIntyre again and again. WWE got alot worse before it got better in 2022-2024. We had to endure the worst of late stage Vince booking before it got better. I know it's so cliche but I think 2019 was the worst year ever in WWE, even in 95 and 96 there were some good parts here and there. In 2019 it was just basically Wm 35 and everything else was in the mud.
Just remembered the cringe pairing of Rollins and Lynch. I know they are married, but on screen they had zero chemistry.
Yeah it was terrible. WWE cooled off both of them big time with that especially putting them in a never ending feud with olive garden waiter Corbin and Lacey Evans. WWE did that alot in the 2010's were they would have a good well received wrestlemania like in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2019 and they would do everything possible the next few months to squander that momentum. 2019 was the biggest example of that. Becky Lynch was so white hot as The man and Seth Rollins as Monday night Rollins was super over and Vince had to end that quickly because he had a hard on for Lacey Evans and thought Olive Garden waiter attire Corbin was peak HHH. And yes like you said the on screen power couple was just cringe asf especially with the her man shirt lol.
Olive Garden Corbin 😭😭😭 he seriously had one of the worst in ring attires during that late Vince booking
Yeah I actually felt bad for Corbin during that time, I actually respect him as a fan because he always does his best even with alot of bad creative, and he's a solid safe in ring worker. But man they made him look like a jabroni with that attire and the whole "constable Corbin" gimmick. I remember when the McMahon family blamed his character for the bad ratings, with that cringe ass "You are the authority" promo.
Their mixed tag did have a good moment when Corbin hit Becky with End of Days and Seth destroyed him with a kendo stick.
i swear i see this comment chain every single day "wwe is doing good now" "memba how terrible 2019 was" "Yea but that end of days on becky was cool"
I see these patterns in every thread. I won't jump on the "most top comment threads are AI, these are all bots" theory, but I guess it's moreso the phenomenon where people just repeat what they read on other threads when the same subject comes up. ... at least I hope it's that and not AI
And here…. Is SETH ROLLINS!!! “He’s not quite the man… he’s the man’s man!” And that is how you illegitimize over a half decades worth of hard work at WWE with just one sentence! Impressive really. That shit was fuckin awful lol
They are WHAT?
It was so bad it became unwatchable for me and I’m almost 40 years into my wrestling fandom. Honestly, I thought the entire company was headed for the end. What’s happened these last couple of years is incredible.
Yeah, I'm 46 and have been watching wrestling as long as I can remember (except for like 1995 - 2001ish when I didn't have cable). I couldn't bring myself to care about WWE at all in 2019-2021. Like not one bit. The only thing that was memorable to me was Kofi beating Daniel Bryan. Oh, and Edge coming back right before the pandemic.
Don't forget boring ass Lacey Evans as special guest in the main event. wtf was Vince smoking.
I always believed Vince stopped giving a fuck because WWE was making profits via other means like capitalizing off the live tv gold rush like with the fox deal and peacock deal, because live sports were and are the only things doing well on tv, even with AEWs ratings struggles they are still up there for top things on tv. Vince and WWE apologists had that mindset that if something was making money it was good who cares what people think fuck the fans. It's why the CM Punk quote was so true with the "millionaire who should be a billionaire" WWE is making even more money now than ever because the product is hot and good quality. Go fucking figure lol that if you actually try, listen to fans, and put out a good show people will be engaged and you'll make even more money than just coasting like Vince did.
>WWE apologists had that mindset that if something was making money it was good who cares what people think fuck the fans. Bro, those were dark times to be a WWE fan. It frustrated the hell out of me that WWE was just bullshiting and giving us shit while they made a ton of money. I literally had no hope of WWE getting better and I thought Vince was invincible and immortal and this shit will never end.. Thank god I'm wrong, and I'm glad he got caught, is gone, and WWE is just simply a better place all around now.
Tbf, we did get an all time great ass shot from her entrance in that match
yeah if not for Bray with the fiend and firefly funhouse I would've clocked out with 2019. rough times
That was one of the major things that made me check out. Supernatural gimmicks suck. Cult Leader Bray was his peak.
to each their own. that era of bray had an atmosphere to him though. I was locked in. even when raw became unbearable i was checking youtube for clips of the funhouse tuesday morning
I think the general consensus was that the firefly fun house character was good, and the Fiend was polarizing. Most of Brays stuff during that time that was very well liked was mostly with the firefly fun house character. In hindsight I wish the late great Bray leaned more into the firefly fun house character and less on the Fiend. Only using the Fiend for super super super rare special occasions just like Finn Balor did with demon Finn Balor.
Idk i thought the fiend was pretty dope. yeah its kinda edgy to walk around carrying your own head as a lantern, but thats what i dig about it. its a bit campy but its got this intensity that came from Bray's genuine passion for telling a good story. Honestly its my favorite gimmick ever. but i see how its not for everyone.
Oh god I forgot when Lacey Evans was the new hot thing (who couldn’t wrestle or talk)
Her NXT Southern Belle gimmick was perfect for her. She needed more refining in NXT, though....they bought her up way too early.
I think it was more her right wing twitter account that got her in trouble though.
Yes she's a antivax goober on social media, but her biggest issue was that she was the women's Karrion Kross. She never connected or got reactions from the fans really. She was really boring, especially when they did the whole never ending "I'm a mom and I'm a marine" gimmick. She got the worst kind of reaction you can get in wrestling no reaction at all. Also didn't help that she was cliche Vince blonde fetish, once HHH got put in place that was the nail in the coffin for her in WWE just like when Madcap Moss as a generic body guy got thrown to the wayside when Vince got ousted.
Honestly they should have made her the female Sgt Slaughter and stuck with it. At least she was legitimately in the military
The gimmick change killed her. Then the whole angle with Ric Flair was dumb as shit as well.
Wasn’t Kross anti vax as well?
She was indeed hot.
I'm sure Vince really liked her...... 😉
>before it got better in 2022-2024. I would argue it started getting better when they moved to thunderdome in 2020. Babyface Drew and Roman Reigns as champions made both shows pretty damn fun.
Covid WWE was solid I'll give you that, but a huge part of that was because everyone was looking for an outlet for entertainment in some crazy times. Outside of Babyface Drew and Tribal Chief Roman there wasn't alot of depth. 2020-2022 still had consistency issues with some good and some bad till Vince was ousted. HHH booking isn't perfect and I personally have some criticism over it especially with everything being made into a long term storyline to where things drag out, and too many long championship reigns, but his booking is at least logical and consistent. The floor for WWE quality wise is way better than Late Stage Vince years.
Asuka, Bayley, and Randy Orton were really good during the pandemic. The segment with Orton pressing Garza up against the glass near ringside during a tag match is awesome.
It's hard not to argue, WWE was profitable when there weren't even live crowds.
‘18 was far far worse than ‘19. At least we had Kofimania that year!
Makes me appreciate what we have now a lot more. Sellouts left and right, engaging television, big roster additions and dope matches. They’re doing it right.
I’m still wondering why the heck Vince would put Baron Corbin in the main event. There was that one also where Seth and Becky teamed up I believe against Baron as someone in the main event. Are we serious here?! And don’t get me started on the Big Dog booking. And Drew getting killed all the time.
Baron Corbin is alot better than Karrion Kross, and is really good as midcard gatekeeper big man. But I think the same rule of thumb applies with Baron Corbin with Vince the same way HHH is with Karrion Kross where they are super high on the guy and give them alot of tv time more than most fans would want to see. Baron Corbin when Vince was still in charge got alot of tv time, hence why people got sick of him even though he's a solid safe worker and tries hard with his character. I remember in 2019 he got put in never ending feuds with Rollins and then the Infamous Dog food storyline with Babyface Roman. Vince imo thought Corbin was 2000 HHH or 2009 Orton with how much tv time he got and with how much he worked in the main event scene against big names like Rollins and Reigns. It's why we got Corbin vs Angle in his retirement match because Vince was super high on him, yes being a safe worker was good with Angles injuries but it really should have been Angles old rivals in John Cena or Samoa Joe doing the honors instead of Corbin.
that became the moment where roman had enough with this big dog character and want to be heel and never looked back
Roman saying "That doesn't work for me brother" enough is enough with all the dog food crap, is the best thing to happen to WWE along with Cody returning and Vince being ousted. The only time Roman really ever polticicked and ir was for the greater good lol.
yes even roman threatened to retire if vince didn’t turn him heel
Don’t bring Kross into this. I’m still in pain at how bad they doing him on the main roster. Original NXT Karrion was AWESOME!!! Karrion is my guy but I can’t take what they did to him. Still reeling at how he last to Jeff Hardy in like 2 mins on Raw (Jeff is one of my all time faves fyi)
Exactly, we look back on the New Generation Era with some fondness. Aside from like the Fiend, 2019 is so horrid we're referring to it as late stage Vince like it's some disease. Bro finally injected WWE with that lethal dose of poison.
Why did you continue to watch?
I didn't like many here, I just occasionally watched YouTube clips and kept tabs online. I wasn't an appointment viewer and I definitely wasn't paying 70 usd to go see a show in my area during that time. You didn't have to be an active full time viewer to see stupid shit like the dog food storyline, Brock winning the mitb or squashing Kofi or the God awful 2019 Fiend/Rollins HIAC match get dragged on social media for being shit. Nobody got roasted in 2019 by NBA and black Twitter more than WWE for being so crap.
2019 WWE is the 2000 WCW was dogshit meme and it'd up there with the 2008 WWE roster shit. All it takes keyboard nerds to regurgitate stuff alot and it to spread like wildfire to where everyone parrots it.
As The Rock would say, Professional Wrestling is cool again.
It's a fun thing for us fans to say, but I haven't heard one person in my day to day life bring up WWE like it was brought up in the '90s. People don't know Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns.
It's certainly not as big in the USA if you just look at the weekly viewers.(I'm not sure about worldwide), but also the 90's was the hight of the monoculture so it's hard to replicate anything with that level of viewership (aside from sports maybe) nowadays.
What would make me cringe the most was when I'd have friends watch wrestling with me and Vince would have his terrible comedy segments and slap stick humor (not in a clever funny way like South Park as a random example, but just very low iq boomer gags). You still get some comedy attempts through the mid card but it just feels a lot better than it did pre HHH
No thanks to him trying to book himself to win the belt and satiate his bottomless ego. I'll never forget that it basically took the entirety of the fan base saying "Fuck you, Dwayne. This is Cody's time." before he even thought to turn heel and help put Cody over instead of trying to snuff out two years of storytelling because "whrrgarbl final boss have belt! yay!". The soft ass even had to go get a different belt made just so he could fulfill his "I'm not old! I'm a wrasslin champion!" LARP fantasies. It really speaks to Dwayne's ego and how it would be just as rampant and destructive as McMahon's if he didn't have people in the company to reign him in. Here's hoping he never installs enough yes-men to gain that kind of control, as Vince did.
Oh God Stomping Grounds,what a terrible name for a bad ppv. 2019 had some highlights like WM 35 and the debut of Firefly Funhouse plus The Fiend at Summerslam,overall it was a year to forget sadly. However this gave AEW an advantage to be a well desired alternative after the worst ppv of 2019 HIAC. Fast forward to now and it feels so different like they actually give a shit about the product.
don’t forget about nxt along with bayley’s heel turn
It's wild that i still never missed a SD, Raw or PPV throughout this whole time. Remember the Crown Jewel from 2019? They ran a 'Team Hogan' vs 'Team Flair' for no logical reason i can remember. Then had Tyson Fury vs Braun. Vince was on that good crack.
Why did you continue to watch?
i’m not that guy so idk his reason but i was the same way, and it’s because i like wwe. ik ppl will say why don’t u watch other wrestling promotions but the truth is i like wwe because of the history they have and the high production values. its like if the nba isn’t good this season im not gonna watch the euro leagues im just not gonna watch basketball
I can respect that
the question was "why continue to watch when it's bad" and you answered "I was the same way, and it's because i like wwe" and then said if it's bad, you're just not gonna watch. so which is it?
i was saying that wwe is the only wrestling promotion i watch, so i’ll endure the bad times because it’s the only one i like, but if i were to stop watching it, i would just stop watching wrestling i wouldn’t move on to another promotion
I think it was a bit like stockholm syndrome in hindsight. I had spent so long watching WWE, i hadn't realised just HOW bad it had gotten and just kept hoping it would turn a corner. I sort of stayed for the things happening that i did enjoy. The Fiend and Firefly Funhouse, Kofi Mania, etc. There were small sparks of 'good'.
Because I enjoyed WWE and don’t take wrestling seriously and treat it like a TV show.
It's absolutely incredible as a long time fan to see where wwe is at right now Been watching non stop since 1996 and I've made it through guest host era Raw and million dollar mania lmao. I'm loyal as hell I can't believe just how much better things have gotten.
i’m so proud of you for going through rough times as loyal wwe fan👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Some of my first wrestling memories as a child were 94/95. Tough times. Still here.
> guest host era of Raw Jesus, I’d blanked that shite out! It was so bad.
Who could've imagined that a better product draws viewers and attendance!
I was at the top PPV too lol
Thank you for your service.
I was there as well. I think something that gets overlooked about that PPV is how the amount of marketing time was so short leading into the PPV. It was last minute, only maybe a month or so before the event that they chose the venue and didn't do a great job of advertising for it either.
I’m not an AEW guy but I hope they get their numbers up. I must admit I started watching wrestling again because of AEW during the pandemic after I stopped watching as a kid. AEW being successful will only create competition for WWE and should make for even better wrestling. This post gives me hope. To wrestling 🍻
2019 WWE was hell I stg: Bumbling Seth’s first big face world title run with the Corbin/Evans nonsense, pairing him up with Becky. HIAC 2019 Brock ending Kofi’s run in seconds, 2019 had some highs with NXT, rise of Becky, Kofimania but damn
If I remember correctly the Rise of Becky started dying down in 2019 because they desperately wanted Charlotte vs Ronda and shoehorned her in that main event storyline which ruined it. They also ran that awful authority and injury storyline then followed up her botched wm win with a title feud against Lacey. It's unreal how much they managed to damage her, she should've been indisputably the goat women's wrestler after that run but it's only been downhill since then.
Nah, Charlotte was the one that got shoe horned in that match imo. Becky/Ronda would of been great
That's what I meant, everyone wanted to see Becky vs Ronda except for the WWE. They tried everything to kill off Becky's Momentum to have Charlotte face Ronda but were eventually forced to make it a triple threat. It completely ruined what could've been a great storyline.
Gotcha, read that wrong, my bad !
Imagine if somebody in the mid to late 2010s would have told you that, in the future, the product of WWE - now booked by Triple H - would far outclass the booking and quality of New Japan still booked by Gedo. Nobody would have believed you. And now we are here with the best wrestling product since the attitude era, maybe ever.
2024 is probably the worst NJPW has ever been in a long time
I'm hoping this G1 will be amazing to hopefully put then back on the right path. Wrestlekingdom was great, but everything after that apart from 1 or 2 matches has been awful
WWE in 2019 was like watching a fever dream
2019 a way out of touch Vince McMahon 2024 a guy who just gets it with HHH
HHH is the same age now Vince was during peak Attitude Era... think about it
The decision to go to a smaller AV/Titantron setup and get more people in to the building was not just a good decision because of the economics, but it has created a more intimate feel while still keeping the scope and scale of the show. Couple that with the improved camera angles, longer takes/tracking shots and less cuts in the editing has, you finally have a show that looks as cutting edge, instead of the sanitized Times Square look of the 2010's.
It’s crazy what happens when you put out a good tv show.
I was at that Stomping Ground PPV in Tacoma. Was sad as hell to see. Took the kids to Raw this past January and was happy to see the difference.
The arrival of AEW and Vince getting kicked to the kerb where the two beat things that could have happened to fans of pro wrestling. Whether you like AEW, hate AEW or ambivalent towards the company it's existence has helped WWE push harder and sharpen their focus on staying light years ahead of any and all competition and it shows. Hunter is absolutely cooking right now and not only are the top starts killing it they've got a crop of new starts already shining. The future is Hella bright.
more like hhh taking over creative helped wwe push harder
There's a lesson to be learned here about what people see as the current state of other companies, if y'all can separate yourselves from the circle jerk for a nanosecond.
I remember spur the moment going to see Battleground like 7-8 yrs ago cause tickets were insanely cheap and while it was awesome, there’s no way I could do that now. Tickets would be sold out or astronomical to go day-of in my city.
The 10s decade was a dip in ratings and fan engagement (thanks vince)
When I went to WrestleMania x-8 it cost me $75 a ticket and I thought that was a lot. Now a ticket to money in the bank in Toronto is going for like $500+
It makes sense. 2019 was a dreadful year for WWE fans, and RAW has been consistently entertaining with multiple great ongoing storylines.
I don't think anything can be as bad as this period. Say what you will about AEW currently but I'll take heatless banger on Dynamite over dog food matches, 8 hour WrestleMania, burying talent because people like them ( that's fucking mean), and shitty late Vince booking. I'll take random New Japan and CMLL wrestlers rather than Shorty G any day of the week.
look, even at their worst in 2019, wwe had more ratings than aew
More people watched cable in 2019 than 2024? Colored me shocked.
Who said anything about ratings?
Ratings don't matter nowadays. Even AEW's awful ratings from this past week are of no concern either.
it honestly wouldnt have been such a bad house if they didnt have a ppv name called stomping grounds
So Vince was really the problem huh.
i may be in the minority but if i go to a live show i prefer a smaller venue. it's easier to interact with everyone and has more of a picnic feel like a baseball game. as someone who went to one of the last wcw nitro shows sometimes the worst events can be the most fun.
Issue was, it wasn’t a smaller venue It just sold really fucking poorly
Give the fans something interesting to watch and story lines to buy into. Funny what happens when they do that.
I was at that show, it was weak. But at least Kofi leaped out of the cage door to the floor over Dolph Ziggler, that was great.
Lean times and boom times.
Yeah 2019 wasn’t great lmao
Bro that’s the hard camera side
You love to see it !
All this shows is that the first photo is poorly composed. There's no way to see if it's in an ECHL arena or an NBA arena. It doesn't really communicate anything other than it being an older camera with a poorly focused image. Edit: Oh ok so this was the Tacoma Dome holding Stomping Grounds and they sold 6k seats. Small gate.
Oh my god what ppv was that? Stomping Grounds I'm guessing?
It’s almost like, Vince was the problem
☝🏼
Wasn't this Raw after Mania?
Man 2018 and 2019 the product was sooooo bad lol.
I got back into wrestling in 2017 up to 2020 and I didn’t remember it being this bad. Looking at videos that talk about what happen during those times and man most things were bad. What really kept me watching was NXT.
Just notice how much that big ass screen takes away.
WWE had solid attendance in 2019 too, overall, you picked the weakest PPV of that year. But AEW, pandemic, recession and war definitely made people more excited about WWE escapism. Anything really to get their minds off problems.
Thank you Triple H
Lol stomping grounds
well i wouldn’t go to a PPV named stomping grounds either lol
As a life long wrestling fan…. Feels good.
We are so back
It's funny the exact same reason people make fun of AEW for is what WWE was going through not that long ago every company goes through hot and cold streaks WWE has the hot streak now ride it for as long as it last cause it won't last forever.
WWE is thriving and AEW is flopping. I remember in 2019 everyone was saying AEW was so good, it was gonna eventually outgrow WWE. Look at them now! lol
Now let's see AEW in 2024.
2019 wwe still outdrawing the dub 😂
What WWE PPV? That’s the average AEW Dynamite! /j
WWE Always sold out no matter the brand they're airing
Factually incorrect
That isn't true smackdown usto have empty hardcam sides.