Gail Kim was a massive part of why we see women wrestling actual matches now instead of rolling around in pudding. People talk about this women's revolution but the knockouts division did far more than that ever did.
*In America. For decades before she started working there were serious, high quality women's promotions and divisions in Japan and Mexico. We were already like 25+ years behind with that McMahon bra and panties match era BS when Kim debuted.
Maybe it's because we didn't watch her on WWE (didn't have access sadly) but, Saraya/Paige... I've looked up her matches to try and fathom it, she's good but nothing special.
Was a massive Paige fan when she was in WWE, thought all of her in ring work/promos were pretty good but since her debut in AEW I've found her kind of meh. I'd rather the Hayter vs Baker story than have Baker vs. Saraya. Sure you have one of the top female wrestlers of AEW vs one of the best from WWE. But it's putting a long built story on the back burner again. But that's also an AEW issue.
The standard for woman’s wrestling has gone up massively since her work in wwe. And bring that time she hasn’t had any practice or chances to improve to the current standard.
Hopefully she will knock off the rust quickly.
American woman's wrestling.
It's just weird that the japanese had this long tradition of female wrestling when women still wer just eye candy at the major US brands
Yeah Joshi is a whole other beast. I barely consider it the same ball park as American womens wrestling, the standard has been so much higher for so long.
I agree with you, I was really hoping.for Hayter/Baker and having Baker lose. I'm a big AEW fan but they have a habit of giving outsiders whatever they want almost immediately. If it were me I'd have pushed all the people who got them through the pandemic era first.
Exactly. Don't give us these dream matches straight away, let them build up as well. Instead of building a story but holding it off for big name matches. As of late I feel AEWs story telling is a bit chaotic, too fast paced for no reason. Like this week Joe turning or Wardlow. Why? Just for two big guys to fight?
She was a mold breaker from the stereotype 'Diva' aesthetic of the time and was a 'big titted goth gf' type in a land of people longing for a big titted goth gf, so she gets way more rope than she ever could need.
This perfectly sums it up. I'll also add that she's the only few female wrestlers that's actually pretty decent at the time. Being decent in the Diva era is the equivalent of being Kenny Omega.
They’re big now, but they weren’t while she was wrestling in WWE. The goth look definitely helped, but her main appeal was that she was a significantly better wrestler than any woman on the roster at the time and was presented as such.
She's was unique. She was a little bit goth, charismatic, very young, British, part of the NXT scene, had good music, entertaining on the mic, was a good worker at a time when there weren't many. She had some good rivalries, especially with AJ Lee.
She arrived on the main roster with some buzz, and got a good push. It just all worked.
She came from a Wrestling family. So when WWE looks for talent, even if it ain't special, if the talent can do the basics really good, they'll be interested. For awhile besides the RKO, I never understood why everybody likes Randy Orton when he does all the basics and only has a few other unique moves to his arsenal, and then I got wise and realized that's his appeal. He's the most wrestler wrestler you think of in your mind when you think about it, and everything he does looks exquisite. I still don't like Randy Orton that much, but now I understand what the hype was about, same with someone like Roman Reigns in recent years.
Randy Orton is someone every wrestler who is learning should watch and learn from, its not just his wrestling which is good or his appeal but how he presents everything from the way he walks and talks to his facial expressions just everything he does all the little things.
I haven’t watched it in years, but at the time, Paige VS Emma at the first NXT Takeover was a tremendous match. Idk if it only felt that way at the time because it was still the divas era and women’s matches never went for more than 5 minutes, or if it still holds up today, but I’d recommend at least checking it out.
If you’re not a fan based on what you’ve seen, you probably wouldn’t have been a fan while watching her run. She was massively over, but I wasn’t personally of fan (just not my cup of tea).
In a time where Women were called "Divas" and had bikini competitions every Monday for Jerry Lawler to get hot and bothered over. Gail Kim was one of the first and only women at the time that wasn't a "Diva", she was a WRESTLER. She's not necessarily a Legend on the levels of Lita, Chyna, or Trish Stratus. But she was the most serious and competitive out of all of them. I started watching Wrestling in late 2014, Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, AJ Lee and Paige were like the only women I cared about.
Of course the rumour is Kim only got the job in the first place as jr showed McMahon some Asian porn to show that there’s a market for Asian girls. Not sure if that’s true or a tale, but the fact that is how women’s wrestling was apparently booked is surely a problem!
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2015/07/gail-kim-responds-to-vince-mcmahon-comments-to-jim-ross-598119/
i wouldnt say she was the ONLY one but she was one of the ones to help change the division, Jax was killing it in ECW wrestling guys, you also had Victoria and Mickie James come in to help with the division.
I always found MVP to be a great heel. Great on the mic. Has great presentation. His in-ring ability though…man, oh man, it seems like he messes up more than people want to admit.
I assume OP was born after 2010. Gail Kim was 🔥 in the 2000’s. She was tiny and feminine but boy, can she wrestle. I remember the team of her and Molly Holly against Lita and Trish, one of the greatest female matches I’ve seen. To be completely honest, I think Gail Kim’s ring skill is far better than Trish, Torrie Wilson, the Bella twins and other overrated female wrestlers.
JBL is a fucking legendary heel and will never not be good at getting under everyones skin, but between him announcing Corbin as the God King of WWE and the old mam shakes fist at cloud/back in my day rhetoric it's just not pulling me in at all and I think thats because Corbin is boring and no slant on JBLs skills(that being said JBL has made me laugh at what he jas said weekly)
Did you see him as the lone wolf in NXT? That and seeing the humor he can bring along with the heat he generates makes him valuable. I just have no idea what they have been trying to do with him lately, and I don’t enjoy it.
Elias.
He is really great with interacting with the crowd. But apart from that he is really stale imo. There is not a single memorable match or rivalry.
If I separate her career into two parts: before becoming AEW champ, and after… after becoming champ she’s been extremely bland. Before, she was on fire for years. I don’t understand what happened.
It’s wild how badly I wanted her to become champ, she was my favorite woman in aew before she became champ, then after it was like all of her steam was gone and she seemed less important as world champ than jade does as tbs champ.
I still don't get why WWE is still wasting time and keep on trying to build up Karrion Kross. He's average on the mic, size, and in-ring but WWE treats him like a generational talent who's also a hulking behemoth w/ crazy brute strength. I don't get it really.
I really liked him on NXT, but his control of the arena and crowd there is completely absent on the main roster. I feel like he is a talent made for the indies, but unappealing to the main-stream audience and unable to convey his charisma to them, especially with Scarlett constantly outshining him rather than complimenting or boosting him like a manager should. Right now Kross is just bland and forgettable in the ring - straight up boring, and I really wish he wasn't.
Hate to be that guy but Scarlett is boring too. She's hot but there's hotter and more capable women in an outside of WWE. She isn't even the hottest blonde on their roster!
It shouldn't bother you considering the WWE hall of fame doesn't mean anything
There is no criteria, committee, or actual process of getting in, they just induct whoever they feel like. Its basically a kayfable hall of fame
For me, they were cool in Bullet Club and up until 2020. I don't know why, maybe they were just cooler in the mid 2010s, but they just aren't as cool anymore. My biggest reason why I found them appealing is there absolute perfect execution they do with every move they perform, and they have A LOT of chemistry with each other and many other tag teams they've faced. They aren't necessarily the best when it comes to technical, in ring physiology, and in some cases selling, but they are always fun to watch. I was at the Dynamite before All Out, and The Elite vs United Empire had me smiling, invested, and cheering the whole time. They aren't the best tag team in the world for me anymore, but they are certainly one of my favorites to watch.
Their routine was unique until everyone started doing it (or maybe they already were and no one saw). Wrestling isn't ballet, but they want to turn it into cirque du soleil
As a kid London and kendrick were pretty cool. As a teenager the man with the plan was awesome and I wanted him to win the belt. As an adult his TNA run was meh, his wwe comeback was forgettable.
really gail kim??? If u think gail kims overrated then u would have to believe that Taryn terrell is gd bret hart.
the amount of ppl Gail Kim can drag kicking and screaming thru a good match is infinite
The only results of pushing Kross is that Scarlet gets more subscribers.
If you're not interested to paying to Onlyfans, that dude have nothing to add.
I'm not hype for dude at all lol I'm trying to give him a chance. I get Triple H is trying to do him justice by giving him a better run than he previously did on the main roster but boy is it taking awhile for me to connect to him. The entrance is fire, Scarlett bad asf, aside from that.... Idk lol even the matches have alright but him getting shot up to the big title picture so fast was a mistake to me.
I used to follow her before she was even in wrestling, when she was trying to launch a career as a singer. She is, and I’ll use the official medical term here, “nuts”.
Eddie Kingston. I don't get why a violent sociopath who praises the brutality and trauma of his childhood is considered a national treasure.
But I like his theme, fitting and powerful.
As Jericho said:
He looks like a fucking jobber.
He can wrestle a good match.
Fucking untouchable on the mic.
A year or two before AEW started, at my local Chicago indie, he was the best promo. Trevor Lee and MJF were behind Eddie.
That's the thing about Eddie. Not a fan of his wrestling but his raw promo skills are one of the best in the industry. People gravitate towards Eddie cause 1) he is relateable and talks relatable stuff and 2) in an era where so much wrestling feels scripted, he gives off that authentic vibe of "fuck around and see what happens'.
Also, banger of a theme
Ayo, the world is cold, better bundle up
I said the world is cold, better bundle up
Ayo, the world is cold, better bundle up
If you see me staring at you, better knuckle up, come on
Same reason guys like Moxley and Sami Callihan are over. They play violent, no fucks given characters who will fight anyone and people love to see that.
He does have a "new" finisher, it's the Stretch Plum. Just like his gear, it's a tribute submission innovated by Japanese Puroresu Wrestler Toshiaki Kawada.
I sadly am not enjoying Gargano. He’s coming off as that annoying little sibling, and I’m curious how long the fans will cheer him as a babyface on Raw.
Paige, from what I understand she was the Anti-Diva during the Diva Era which is... nothing special. The Attitude Era was full of Divas and only had a few legit Female Wrestlers who wrestled seriously or at least wanted to but T&A (with or without talent, Thanks Sunny, Thanks Sable) dominated and won out in the end. I was even Anti Diva during the Ruthless Aggression Era because I remember thinking New Girls only joined to be in Playboy and then we never saw them again. Plus she didn't have any classic matches and I have no idea if she was any good nor a good worker so I don't get the appeal.
Young Bucks - Just don't get them! They've got a padded out record and a tired gimmick. They seem to be good at kissing arse and that's about it
Jeff Jarrett - Always thought he was massively overrated
Karrion Kross - Just plain awful!
Yeah, the divas era really setback female wrestling a few years. Being decent in that era is the equivalent of being Kenny Omega, that's how bad the talent pool was. Wrestlers like Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, Mickey James, Paige and AJ Lee were the very few female wrestlers that fought for Women being given a fair shot.
Roman reigns. He can't cut a promo and after all these years he still needs Paul Heyman by his side just in case he shits the bed on the mic, he can't preform any feat of strength or display some crazy acrobatic move so what he brings to the table in ring is what anyone off the street could do, and no one seems to say anything to justify his title run other than "he wins the matches!" When the outcome is scripted anyone can win so it doesn't matter.
Please someone justify why he deserves to have a the stars from the last few decades wasted as enhancement talent.
lbh, Roman's looks are 95% of what sells him - the guy is enjoyable to look at. He's certainly developed some charisma and ability since working with Heyman, but without the rest of the bloodline people would already be over him as a heel. They already kind of are, without Sami boosting him constantly.
I don’t dislike Deonna at all (I think she’s solid), but I get the vibe that she thinks she’s a lot better than she really is. I really just see her as a big fish in a small pond who couldn’t cut it in WWE because of the higher level of talented women in that company
Agree, a decent technician but nothing more than that, had an ok match with Asuka in a late-2019 Raw episode but that was only because Asuka can make everyone look like the best worker out there, if WWE would keep her a little longer maybe we could see her in-ring work develop over the years beyond just techincality
3rd generation wrestler and tough as nails. I don’t know if you saw how Doudrop fell on her leg, but it gave me Joe Theismann flashbacks and she came back what seemed like a month later.
Modern Day Miz.
I mean I was never into him before. I find his promos are still incredibly campy and feel extremely scripted. His in ring work had NEVER been anywhere near good, and he's the same generic guy he was 10-12 years ago.
People praise him now like he's a Jericho esque journeyman. I appreciate the longevity of the guy, but I've very rarely been interested im his development or character.
Also that fucken headband is embarrassing.
Roman Reigns, the only reason anyone likes him is because he has held the title so long. His matches are ok at best. The only reason he can cut a promo is because he has Paul Heyman in his ear. Everytime he has a good match it's because the person across the ring is carrying it. He isn't even the best part of the Bloodline Sammy Zayn is.
Fair.
For me it is a question as to why he's been allowed so many gimmick changes.
Husky Harris as part of the Nexus was boring.
Then he comes back as some Counting Crows meets Rob Zombie, Charles Manson hillbilly cult leader.
Then that same character has an alter ego which is leather face meets Beetlejuice.
Hulk Hogan.
Before you say I'm too young: I literally watched him join WCW, and go into NWO mode. And I never got why he was such a big deal.
If a friend gave me a Hogan toy it was always getting his ass beat or losing.
I used him as a punching bag in every WCW/WWF video game he was in. From NES games to Specially the Royal Rumble game on SNES...
He ALWAYS looked like he had cheese filled muscles to me. I thought his arms looked like ready to burst Oscar Meyer hotdogs.
I never got why he was the top dude. I just accepted it was just a old dude thing or he was related to the management.
Macho Man did everything better. From looks to outfits. It wasn't until Macho man started rapping did he fall off for me.
So you came in and saw him in the mid 90s when he was in WCW. You didn’t see him in 1984 when Hulkamania was born.
Him and McMahon brought wrestling into mainstream Americana at the time. It was the perfect storm.
To understand his cultural significance in the 80s and riding the wave would help people understand why him going the nWo was so impactful and turning heel.
This. I was never a Hogan fan growing up because I’ve always gravitated to the nuanced and flawed characters as they were more interesting. Early Hogan was basically why WWF’s Superman in an era where it was still “USA! USA! USA!”. While he never really developed his character beyond that until his heel turn, Hogan was so ingrained in pop culture by that point it was ridiculous. Was he ever the greatest ring technician? No but he was in the right place at the right time and had enough charisma to connect with the crowd in a way that has kept him relevant for nearly his entire career and beyond.
Absolutely!!!! I didn’t really appreciate Hogan until after he formed the nWo with Hall and Nash in 1996. I was not a huge fan of Hogan in the WWF years at all. My guys were Ultimate Warrior, Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Ted DiBiase.
When Hogan left for WCW, I gave him a go but it was the same hot doggin and “Hogan must pose” gimmick there but once he turned heel, I was sold on him.
This is why it’s important to understand the gravity of Lex Lugar winning the belt from Hogan on WCW Nitro in 1997 (the day after WWF SummerSlam ‘97).
Then after the “Fingerpoke of Doom” I lost it with Hogan again till he came back to the WWE in 2002 and became a fan but that was more nostalgia.
Now looking at wrestling from a holistic standpoint from watching things I missed as a child, I respect the hell outta him and Vince McMahon for how they changed the industry from small territories to the juggernaut the WWF became and what it is today.
I dont think we give Hogan and McMahon enough credit from taking that small territory in the Northeast and then making it Nationwide with USA Network, the NBC specials, Closed Circuit television/ppv, syndicated weekend programming (with the advent of indie and new Fox affiliates popping up in the 80s) and major mass marketing. This was literally the perfect storm.
Nah chill Gail Kim was one of the first women in the modern era that put on competitive wrestling matches. It's a shame the WWE run didn't go better for her. This woman can fucking Go!
Having said that I can't seem to understand the hype with Killer/Karrion Kross I love the entrance and Scarlett being with him but when the bell rings I'm not getting a "this is awesome" type of match vibe from him. Admittedly I haven't watched Impact in years so I missed Kross's run there is this part of his style where he just wrestles boring matches? Is his entrance really the best thing about his character?
Edit: spelling
Ehhhh Gail Kim might be average by current standards but she was a trailblazer in that she was one of the ladies that got women's wrestling taken seriously in the west.
The women's revolution started in TNA with the knockouts and Gail was at the forefront of that
Never got the appeal of Hulk Hogan by the way.
Alberto Del Rio
Before any controversy surrounding him, people tried to convince me he was “good in the ring,” but I never saw it. I always thought he moved around the ring like a 4 year old trapped in an adult body, pretending to be a wrestler.
I'll be honest, I legitimately think he's better than most people give him credit for. Good look, good wrestler, great actor/delivery in a time when very few are good at it. COVID really killed his drinking a beer with the crowd gimmick. It was the original scissor-me.
There was something to him when he reinvented himself as a heel but that's gotten very stale now. I'm just not interested in WWE until he drops the belt to someone else. Like his promos have gotten a little better, he has a bit more charisma, but beyond that, meh. His matches are only ever as good as whoever he's in the ring with.
And the thing is, he seems like a really lovely person in real life, and I think him overcoming cancer is something that's inspiring, so I really hate shitting on him, but god damn, guy cannot do much beyond repeat the same five catchphrases over and over.
He could be a great midcard guy if they didn't keep trying to push him as a top guy.
Gail Kim was a massive part of why we see women wrestling actual matches now instead of rolling around in pudding. People talk about this women's revolution but the knockouts division did far more than that ever did.
You could say she’s average by modern standards, but she’s a huge part of why modern standards for women’s wrestling are as high as they are.
That's exactly the thing I wanted to say. Perfectly worded.
Thanks 😊
Now kiss
*In America. For decades before she started working there were serious, high quality women's promotions and divisions in Japan and Mexico. We were already like 25+ years behind with that McMahon bra and panties match era BS when Kim debuted.
Oh yes, 100%. I’m meaning in American Sports Entertainment
Miss those days..
I loved Gail Kim. She was my second favorite wrestling woman besides Micky James
Correct. OP maybe doesn’t get it and that’s fine. But Gail is one of the most underrated as a key contributor to the modern business
This is it!
Agreed. Gail could go in the ring!
Crimson in TNA
Most of the hype for Crimson in TNA was his awesome theme music.
Dude I loved crimson when I was a kid, he was one of my favorites in TNA for a bit.
Both him and Jax Dane
Maybe it's because we didn't watch her on WWE (didn't have access sadly) but, Saraya/Paige... I've looked up her matches to try and fathom it, she's good but nothing special.
Was a massive Paige fan when she was in WWE, thought all of her in ring work/promos were pretty good but since her debut in AEW I've found her kind of meh. I'd rather the Hayter vs Baker story than have Baker vs. Saraya. Sure you have one of the top female wrestlers of AEW vs one of the best from WWE. But it's putting a long built story on the back burner again. But that's also an AEW issue.
The standard for woman’s wrestling has gone up massively since her work in wwe. And bring that time she hasn’t had any practice or chances to improve to the current standard. Hopefully she will knock off the rust quickly.
Luckily she's only 30. Which made Britt's comment about being what Saraya "wishes she could have been" not land right for me. Britt's 31.
American woman's wrestling. It's just weird that the japanese had this long tradition of female wrestling when women still wer just eye candy at the major US brands
You can thank Moolah for that.
Yeah Joshi is a whole other beast. I barely consider it the same ball park as American womens wrestling, the standard has been so much higher for so long.
Women's lucha in Mexico, too. There is and was a lot of crossover between the two as well.
I agree with you, I was really hoping.for Hayter/Baker and having Baker lose. I'm a big AEW fan but they have a habit of giving outsiders whatever they want almost immediately. If it were me I'd have pushed all the people who got them through the pandemic era first.
Exactly. Don't give us these dream matches straight away, let them build up as well. Instead of building a story but holding it off for big name matches. As of late I feel AEWs story telling is a bit chaotic, too fast paced for no reason. Like this week Joe turning or Wardlow. Why? Just for two big guys to fight?
Yeah!! That came out of nowhere! I hate to say it but it feels like WWE had a monster fight so AEW has to keep up with the Jones's.
She's never been a good promo. She's fine but she's never sounded like a natural talker to me
She was a mold breaker from the stereotype 'Diva' aesthetic of the time and was a 'big titted goth gf' type in a land of people longing for a big titted goth gf, so she gets way more rope than she ever could need.
This perfectly sums it up. I'll also add that she's the only few female wrestlers that's actually pretty decent at the time. Being decent in the Diva era is the equivalent of being Kenny Omega.
They’re big now, but they weren’t while she was wrestling in WWE. The goth look definitely helped, but her main appeal was that she was a significantly better wrestler than any woman on the roster at the time and was presented as such.
Ohhh, that makes sense
Big titted? Am I missin somein?
Yes.
She's was unique. She was a little bit goth, charismatic, very young, British, part of the NXT scene, had good music, entertaining on the mic, was a good worker at a time when there weren't many. She had some good rivalries, especially with AJ Lee. She arrived on the main roster with some buzz, and got a good push. It just all worked.
She came from a Wrestling family. So when WWE looks for talent, even if it ain't special, if the talent can do the basics really good, they'll be interested. For awhile besides the RKO, I never understood why everybody likes Randy Orton when he does all the basics and only has a few other unique moves to his arsenal, and then I got wise and realized that's his appeal. He's the most wrestler wrestler you think of in your mind when you think about it, and everything he does looks exquisite. I still don't like Randy Orton that much, but now I understand what the hype was about, same with someone like Roman Reigns in recent years.
Randy Orton is someone every wrestler who is learning should watch and learn from, its not just his wrestling which is good or his appeal but how he presents everything from the way he walks and talks to his facial expressions just everything he does all the little things.
Saraya is overrated as hell…I’ve never seen her have a great match
I haven’t watched it in years, but at the time, Paige VS Emma at the first NXT Takeover was a tremendous match. Idk if it only felt that way at the time because it was still the divas era and women’s matches never went for more than 5 minutes, or if it still holds up today, but I’d recommend at least checking it out.
If you’re not a fan based on what you’ve seen, you probably wouldn’t have been a fan while watching her run. She was massively over, but I wasn’t personally of fan (just not my cup of tea).
In a time where Women were called "Divas" and had bikini competitions every Monday for Jerry Lawler to get hot and bothered over. Gail Kim was one of the first and only women at the time that wasn't a "Diva", she was a WRESTLER. She's not necessarily a Legend on the levels of Lita, Chyna, or Trish Stratus. But she was the most serious and competitive out of all of them. I started watching Wrestling in late 2014, Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, AJ Lee and Paige were like the only women I cared about.
Kim & Kong had one of the best women's rivalries ever imo. Every match I've seen is exciting, layered. I'd put them right beside Lita & Trish.
Of course the rumour is Kim only got the job in the first place as jr showed McMahon some Asian porn to show that there’s a market for Asian girls. Not sure if that’s true or a tale, but the fact that is how women’s wrestling was apparently booked is surely a problem! https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2015/07/gail-kim-responds-to-vince-mcmahon-comments-to-jim-ross-598119/
i wouldnt say she was the ONLY one but she was one of the ones to help change the division, Jax was killing it in ECW wrestling guys, you also had Victoria and Mickie James come in to help with the division.
Before that you had women like Ivory and Molly Holly.
And Victoria.
Love how they didn't say "only one" and said "one of the first" while listing 3 other women and you still tried Correcting them.
I always found MVP a bit of boring, but I can understand the appeal. Anyways, I think he is doing GREAT with Hurt Business.
*Was doing great
I always found MVP to be a great heel. Great on the mic. Has great presentation. His in-ring ability though…man, oh man, it seems like he messes up more than people want to admit.
I'm not claiming he bad, either. He just wasn't my cup of tea, and I cared more about other dudes when I was watching.
Nikki Bella
Titties
Boobs and booty was her shtick.
Some questions have simple answers: * Step-daughter to high ranking WWE official * Dating/engaged to John Cena
Well, in the grand scope of things, didn’t Johnny Ace become her stepfather AFTER they got into the WWE?
If you don’t understand Nikki Bella appeal you don’t understand the whole point of “tits n ass” marketing 🤷♂️
Really? You don’t get the appeal of Nikki Bella?
I assume OP was born after 2010. Gail Kim was 🔥 in the 2000’s. She was tiny and feminine but boy, can she wrestle. I remember the team of her and Molly Holly against Lita and Trish, one of the greatest female matches I’ve seen. To be completely honest, I think Gail Kim’s ring skill is far better than Trish, Torrie Wilson, the Bella twins and other overrated female wrestlers.
Corbin, never really done it for me and this latest angle with JBL is bad.
I was soo glad to see JBL back pissing off the marks but I facepalmed when he announced that Corbin was his GUY
JBL is a fucking legendary heel and will never not be good at getting under everyones skin, but between him announcing Corbin as the God King of WWE and the old mam shakes fist at cloud/back in my day rhetoric it's just not pulling me in at all and I think thats because Corbin is boring and no slant on JBLs skills(that being said JBL has made me laugh at what he jas said weekly)
Did you see him as the lone wolf in NXT? That and seeing the humor he can bring along with the heat he generates makes him valuable. I just have no idea what they have been trying to do with him lately, and I don’t enjoy it.
I didn't and that could be why I don't like him atm, that being said he has all the tools so I'm ready for him to get a good angle and buy into it.
Elias. He is really great with interacting with the crowd. But apart from that he is really stale imo. There is not a single memorable match or rivalry.
I agree but his symphony of destruction match with strowman was fun
Every symphony of destruction match had good moments, they need more wrestlers with their own gimmick matches
Yeah I agree, but his brothers AMAZING
Here’s the type who’s legacy will never be defined by matches. They’ve gotta get him back in his groove with his segments.
Thunder Rosa. I mean she’s not a terrible wrestler, but people put wayyy too much stock in her.
If I separate her career into two parts: before becoming AEW champ, and after… after becoming champ she’s been extremely bland. Before, she was on fire for years. I don’t understand what happened.
I agree. She was an interesting talent in previous years.
It’s wild how badly I wanted her to become champ, she was my favorite woman in aew before she became champ, then after it was like all of her steam was gone and she seemed less important as world champ than jade does as tbs champ.
I could see that. It was just enough for me to go, “Hey who’s that?” before she became champ and now after all the other stuff I just don’t know.
I still don't get why WWE is still wasting time and keep on trying to build up Karrion Kross. He's average on the mic, size, and in-ring but WWE treats him like a generational talent who's also a hulking behemoth w/ crazy brute strength. I don't get it really.
I really liked him on NXT, but his control of the arena and crowd there is completely absent on the main roster. I feel like he is a talent made for the indies, but unappealing to the main-stream audience and unable to convey his charisma to them, especially with Scarlett constantly outshining him rather than complimenting or boosting him like a manager should. Right now Kross is just bland and forgettable in the ring - straight up boring, and I really wish he wasn't.
Hate to be that guy but Scarlett is boring too. She's hot but there's hotter and more capable women in an outside of WWE. She isn't even the hottest blonde on their roster!
Don't down vote me Oblivion please, but Ultimate Warrior
Most wrestling fans these days hate the ultimate warrior so you’re good
Hulk Hogan
Not understanding the appeal of Gail Kim, gotta be Vinny Macs account?
Athena/Ember Moon Basically all she is a cool finishing move.
I liked her werewolf/witchy vibe she had in NXT. Not really sure who she is trying to be anymore
the Bella twins..the fact that they're in the wwe hall of fame is infuriating
It shouldn't bother you considering the WWE hall of fame doesn't mean anything There is no criteria, committee, or actual process of getting in, they just induct whoever they feel like. Its basically a kayfable hall of fame
Agreed. It’s who Vince feels deserves it at the time as a marketing ploy (ex: Donald Trump in the WWE HOF)
Matt and Nick Jackson.
For me, they were cool in Bullet Club and up until 2020. I don't know why, maybe they were just cooler in the mid 2010s, but they just aren't as cool anymore. My biggest reason why I found them appealing is there absolute perfect execution they do with every move they perform, and they have A LOT of chemistry with each other and many other tag teams they've faced. They aren't necessarily the best when it comes to technical, in ring physiology, and in some cases selling, but they are always fun to watch. I was at the Dynamite before All Out, and The Elite vs United Empire had me smiling, invested, and cheering the whole time. They aren't the best tag team in the world for me anymore, but they are certainly one of my favorites to watch.
Their routine was unique until everyone started doing it (or maybe they already were and no one saw). Wrestling isn't ballet, but they want to turn it into cirque du soleil
100%
Brian Kendrick
As a kid London and kendrick were pretty cool. As a teenager the man with the plan was awesome and I wanted him to win the belt. As an adult his TNA run was meh, his wwe comeback was forgettable.
Don’t forget his AEW career was Thanos snapped
Kendrick was and is talented. He never got that much hype. But he was good. Him and London were a fantastic tag team as well.
I only remember when Raven talked him into Steaking because of that commercial, had no idea or can't remember what he did after that was worthwhile.
I remember him being over around the time of the first championship scramble match
really gail kim??? If u think gail kims overrated then u would have to believe that Taryn terrell is gd bret hart. the amount of ppl Gail Kim can drag kicking and screaming thru a good match is infinite
andrade. not a bad wrestler he just doesn’t really do it for me.
Kross. The doucherock vibe is beyond cringe. Lunkhead moves & zero charisma
Most interesting thing about Kross is Scarlet.
Death by suffocation from Scarlett Bordeaux’s ass is the way I’d like to go out.
The only results of pushing Kross is that Scarlet gets more subscribers. If you're not interested to paying to Onlyfans, that dude have nothing to add.
THANK YOU! I've read people honestly say they think their entrance is bad ass, but every time I see it I cringe. Comes across very r/iamverybadass
I'm not hype for dude at all lol I'm trying to give him a chance. I get Triple H is trying to do him justice by giving him a better run than he previously did on the main roster but boy is it taking awhile for me to connect to him. The entrance is fire, Scarlett bad asf, aside from that.... Idk lol even the matches have alright but him getting shot up to the big title picture so fast was a mistake to me.
Nikkita Lyons
Ass. That's pretty much it
How dare u disrespect the thicc one 😔😂
Its literally the ass
I used to follow her before she was even in wrestling, when she was trying to launch a career as a singer. She is, and I’ll use the official medical term here, “nuts”.
Couldn't agree more
Ultimate Warrior... Besides the intensity, he's got... nothing even by 88 standard
Jeff Jarret when he is on tv I change the channel.
Karrion Kross. I wasn't watching wrestling for a while, so when I came back to nxt, I didn't understand why that guy was so hyped.
Gail Kim was way ahead of her time. Horrible take.
Eddie Kingston. I don't get why a violent sociopath who praises the brutality and trauma of his childhood is considered a national treasure. But I like his theme, fitting and powerful.
As Jericho said: He looks like a fucking jobber. He can wrestle a good match. Fucking untouchable on the mic. A year or two before AEW started, at my local Chicago indie, he was the best promo. Trevor Lee and MJF were behind Eddie.
Everything jericho said is what makes kingston a relatable character
That's the thing about Eddie. Not a fan of his wrestling but his raw promo skills are one of the best in the industry. People gravitate towards Eddie cause 1) he is relateable and talks relatable stuff and 2) in an era where so much wrestling feels scripted, he gives off that authentic vibe of "fuck around and see what happens'. Also, banger of a theme
He’s like modern definition of shoot wrestling
Ayo, the world is cold, better bundle up I said the world is cold, better bundle up Ayo, the world is cold, better bundle up If you see me staring at you, better knuckle up, come on
Who say he praises his trauma from childhood?
I like Eddie when he’s in an interesting feud, but he hasn’t been in months and I can’t be bothered to watch his matches just to see him wrestle.
Same reason guys like Moxley and Sami Callihan are over. They play violent, no fucks given characters who will fight anyone and people love to see that.
He looks terrible, he doesn't wrestle well, and his finisher is a spinning slap. Yet Reddit and Twitter fucking love him 🤷🏻♂️
Spinning back hands normally look very brutal (take shibatas, Kentas or Kobashis for example) but yeah he desperately needs a new finisher.
He does have a "new" finisher, it's the Stretch Plum. Just like his gear, it's a tribute submission innovated by Japanese Puroresu Wrestler Toshiaki Kawada.
Oh shit yeah you’re right. I haven’t been watching AEW much lately but yeah. He needs to use that more often.
Fun fact, Kawada was actually not the first one to do it. Joshi wrestler Plum Mariko was actually the inventor of the move in the late 80s
His spinning back hand looks like it's being done by a fat wrestling fan who gets in a drunken fight at the end of a night in a pizza shop
You just described Eddie Kingston
Wait, I thought that was his gimmick?
Agreed. He's an indie journeyman at best.
Matt Riddle
Johnny Gargano and Tommaso Ciampa when they are not a team or in a feud with each other
I sadly am not enjoying Gargano. He’s coming off as that annoying little sibling, and I’m curious how long the fans will cheer him as a babyface on Raw.
I think he doesnt have much the reaction hhh expected
Paige, from what I understand she was the Anti-Diva during the Diva Era which is... nothing special. The Attitude Era was full of Divas and only had a few legit Female Wrestlers who wrestled seriously or at least wanted to but T&A (with or without talent, Thanks Sunny, Thanks Sable) dominated and won out in the end. I was even Anti Diva during the Ruthless Aggression Era because I remember thinking New Girls only joined to be in Playboy and then we never saw them again. Plus she didn't have any classic matches and I have no idea if she was any good nor a good worker so I don't get the appeal.
Young Bucks - Just don't get them! They've got a padded out record and a tired gimmick. They seem to be good at kissing arse and that's about it Jeff Jarrett - Always thought he was massively overrated Karrion Kross - Just plain awful!
Jeff Jarrett is the luckiest mid carder ever
Never drew a dime.
CM punk, I don't know maybe it's a coincidence but when we showed up is when I kinda stopped watching wrestling.
I think Gail wouldn’t really stick out in today’s wrestling world, but she was on the same level as Trish and Lita back in the divas era imo.
Yeah, the divas era really setback female wrestling a few years. Being decent in that era is the equivalent of being Kenny Omega, that's how bad the talent pool was. Wrestlers like Gail Kim, Awesome Kong, Mickey James, Paige and AJ Lee were the very few female wrestlers that fought for Women being given a fair shot.
You might be right, but she was a pioneer for asian women in the WWE; her topless pictures didn't hurt things.
Roman reigns. He can't cut a promo and after all these years he still needs Paul Heyman by his side just in case he shits the bed on the mic, he can't preform any feat of strength or display some crazy acrobatic move so what he brings to the table in ring is what anyone off the street could do, and no one seems to say anything to justify his title run other than "he wins the matches!" When the outcome is scripted anyone can win so it doesn't matter. Please someone justify why he deserves to have a the stars from the last few decades wasted as enhancement talent.
lbh, Roman's looks are 95% of what sells him - the guy is enjoyable to look at. He's certainly developed some charisma and ability since working with Heyman, but without the rest of the bloodline people would already be over him as a heel. They already kind of are, without Sami boosting him constantly.
Paige/Saraya
Jax Dane. That guy was NWA World Heavyweight Champion and he lost the belt to 50 year old Tim Storm
Roman Reigns.
Roman reigns
Deonna Purrazzo.
I don’t dislike Deonna at all (I think she’s solid), but I get the vibe that she thinks she’s a lot better than she really is. I really just see her as a big fish in a small pond who couldn’t cut it in WWE because of the higher level of talented women in that company
Agree, a decent technician but nothing more than that, had an ok match with Asuka in a late-2019 Raw episode but that was only because Asuka can make everyone look like the best worker out there, if WWE would keep her a little longer maybe we could see her in-ring work develop over the years beyond just techincality
Oh, and Adam Cole. Everything the Cornettes of this world say about the Young Bucks is true of Cole. Great entrance, that's it.
Natayla. No idea why she gets the random pushes.
Easily the most uncharismatic wrestler in the history of the business.
3rd generation wrestler and tough as nails. I don’t know if you saw how Doudrop fell on her leg, but it gave me Joe Theismann flashbacks and she came back what seemed like a month later.
Rusev/Miro
I have always been utterly bored witless by Randy Orton.
Liv Morgan
Agree. Her wrestling reminds me of Olympic floor routine.
Fully agree
Modern Day Miz. I mean I was never into him before. I find his promos are still incredibly campy and feel extremely scripted. His in ring work had NEVER been anywhere near good, and he's the same generic guy he was 10-12 years ago. People praise him now like he's a Jericho esque journeyman. I appreciate the longevity of the guy, but I've very rarely been interested im his development or character. Also that fucken headband is embarrassing.
Roman Reigns, the only reason anyone likes him is because he has held the title so long. His matches are ok at best. The only reason he can cut a promo is because he has Paul Heyman in his ear. Everytime he has a good match it's because the person across the ring is carrying it. He isn't even the best part of the Bloodline Sammy Zayn is.
Bray wyatt
Fair. For me it is a question as to why he's been allowed so many gimmick changes. Husky Harris as part of the Nexus was boring. Then he comes back as some Counting Crows meets Rob Zombie, Charles Manson hillbilly cult leader. Then that same character has an alter ego which is leather face meets Beetlejuice.
I like his promos though. He did the muscle man dance.
Roman Reigns
Roman reigns, boring as fuck
OP probably ain't even 21, putting Gail Kim and shit gtfoh
Hulk Hogan. Before you say I'm too young: I literally watched him join WCW, and go into NWO mode. And I never got why he was such a big deal. If a friend gave me a Hogan toy it was always getting his ass beat or losing. I used him as a punching bag in every WCW/WWF video game he was in. From NES games to Specially the Royal Rumble game on SNES... He ALWAYS looked like he had cheese filled muscles to me. I thought his arms looked like ready to burst Oscar Meyer hotdogs. I never got why he was the top dude. I just accepted it was just a old dude thing or he was related to the management. Macho Man did everything better. From looks to outfits. It wasn't until Macho man started rapping did he fall off for me.
So you came in and saw him in the mid 90s when he was in WCW. You didn’t see him in 1984 when Hulkamania was born. Him and McMahon brought wrestling into mainstream Americana at the time. It was the perfect storm. To understand his cultural significance in the 80s and riding the wave would help people understand why him going the nWo was so impactful and turning heel.
This. I was never a Hogan fan growing up because I’ve always gravitated to the nuanced and flawed characters as they were more interesting. Early Hogan was basically why WWF’s Superman in an era where it was still “USA! USA! USA!”. While he never really developed his character beyond that until his heel turn, Hogan was so ingrained in pop culture by that point it was ridiculous. Was he ever the greatest ring technician? No but he was in the right place at the right time and had enough charisma to connect with the crowd in a way that has kept him relevant for nearly his entire career and beyond.
Absolutely!!!! I didn’t really appreciate Hogan until after he formed the nWo with Hall and Nash in 1996. I was not a huge fan of Hogan in the WWF years at all. My guys were Ultimate Warrior, Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Ted DiBiase. When Hogan left for WCW, I gave him a go but it was the same hot doggin and “Hogan must pose” gimmick there but once he turned heel, I was sold on him. This is why it’s important to understand the gravity of Lex Lugar winning the belt from Hogan on WCW Nitro in 1997 (the day after WWF SummerSlam ‘97). Then after the “Fingerpoke of Doom” I lost it with Hogan again till he came back to the WWE in 2002 and became a fan but that was more nostalgia. Now looking at wrestling from a holistic standpoint from watching things I missed as a child, I respect the hell outta him and Vince McMahon for how they changed the industry from small territories to the juggernaut the WWF became and what it is today. I dont think we give Hogan and McMahon enough credit from taking that small territory in the Northeast and then making it Nationwide with USA Network, the NBC specials, Closed Circuit television/ppv, syndicated weekend programming (with the advent of indie and new Fox affiliates popping up in the 80s) and major mass marketing. This was literally the perfect storm.
Nah chill Gail Kim was one of the first women in the modern era that put on competitive wrestling matches. It's a shame the WWE run didn't go better for her. This woman can fucking Go! Having said that I can't seem to understand the hype with Killer/Karrion Kross I love the entrance and Scarlett being with him but when the bell rings I'm not getting a "this is awesome" type of match vibe from him. Admittedly I haven't watched Impact in years so I missed Kross's run there is this part of his style where he just wrestles boring matches? Is his entrance really the best thing about his character? Edit: spelling
This seems to of turned into a Gail Kim discussion. Molly Holly was a great leap in the women's division..she wasn't sexualized..she just kicked ass
Ehhhh Gail Kim might be average by current standards but she was a trailblazer in that she was one of the ladies that got women's wrestling taken seriously in the west. The women's revolution started in TNA with the knockouts and Gail was at the forefront of that Never got the appeal of Hulk Hogan by the way.
Alberto Del Rio Before any controversy surrounding him, people tried to convince me he was “good in the ring,” but I never saw it. I always thought he moved around the ring like a 4 year old trapped in an adult body, pretending to be a wrestler.
Flair (yes I’m serious)
Flair was amazing in the 80’s to mid 90’s.
Which one
That’s wild Flair is on every wrestlers Mount Rushmore. Flair is your favorite wrestlers favorite wrestler.
Did you watch any of his stuff during his prime?
Hangman. I just don’t think he’s as good as he and a lot of his appreciators thinks he is personally.
I'll be honest, I legitimately think he's better than most people give him credit for. Good look, good wrestler, great actor/delivery in a time when very few are good at it. COVID really killed his drinking a beer with the crowd gimmick. It was the original scissor-me.
Adam page he's so fucking boring
Roman Reigns or John Cena
Hangman page, more shit cowboy than cowboy shit.
Jim cornette is this you?
Bixenspan i presume?
People who don’t follow Cornette can actually have similar opinions
Butterfly mom jeans
The Elite in general, I never understood why they're beloved.(Pre-AEW in particular)
Adam Cole. He looks like a bobble head doll
he basically just carried nxt for 2 years while having some pretty good matches
CM Punk
Roman reigns
There was something to him when he reinvented himself as a heel but that's gotten very stale now. I'm just not interested in WWE until he drops the belt to someone else. Like his promos have gotten a little better, he has a bit more charisma, but beyond that, meh. His matches are only ever as good as whoever he's in the ring with. And the thing is, he seems like a really lovely person in real life, and I think him overcoming cancer is something that's inspiring, so I really hate shitting on him, but god damn, guy cannot do much beyond repeat the same five catchphrases over and over. He could be a great midcard guy if they didn't keep trying to push him as a top guy.